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View Full Version : Filmed Walkthroughs vs. Cooking-Sprayed Linemen


DomCasual
11-28-2010, 12:30 PM
Okay, let me start by saying that I am fully off whatever Josh McDaniels bandwagon I was on. If I had it my way, he would be replaced at the end of the year. So, this is in no way a defense of him.

That said, isn't the outrage over this incident a little hypocritical? Were you similarly outraged when our offensive linemen were sent back to the locker room to clean the cooking spray off their arms and jerseys back in the Super Bowl years?

You can say that was just gamesmanship. I would say we received more advantage from that than we did from six-filmed minutes of a walkthrough.

It's easier to pile on this one because of 5-15 over the past 20 games. It's easier because it feels as if this is a semi-retarded attempt at copying the Patriots Spygate scandal of a few years ago. But can we hold off on the righteous indignation at the shadow this has cast on the organization? If we were 9-2 right now, this would be much ado about nothing.

DomCasual
11-28-2010, 12:31 PM
Wow, apparently the thread-starting issue got fixed?

oubronco
11-28-2010, 12:37 PM
Winning it solves alot

RhymesayersDU
11-28-2010, 12:38 PM
Great post.

One of my favorite things about this board is the high-horse brigade. Always good for a laugh.

Popps
11-28-2010, 12:40 PM
Okay, let me start by saying that I am fully off whatever Josh McDaniels bandwagon I was on. If I had it my way, he would be replaced at the end of the year. So, this is in no way a defense of him.

That said, isn't the outrage over this incident a little hypocritical? Were you similarly outraged when our offensive linemen were sent back to the locker room to clean the cooking spray off their arms and jerseys back in the Super Bowl years?

You can say that was just gamesmanship. I would say we received more advantage from that than we did from six-filmed minutes of a walkthrough.

It's easier to pile on this one because of 5-15 over the past 20 games. It's easier because it feels as if this is a semi-retarded attempt at copying the Patriots Spygate scandal of a few years ago. But can we hold off on the righteous indignation at the shadow this has cast on the organization? If we were 9-2 right now, this would be much ado about nothing.

You know that answer to that. If we were on fire right now, no one would give a flying **** about this. That's just the way it works.

That said, I'm troubled by it, still. I don't want my organization tied to this kind of thing. Of course, as you pointed out... it's far from the first embarrassment we've had. There were plenty under Shanny's watch, and I loved him until he left.

I guess the other question is... how unusual do people think this is? This type of rule bending? I have a feeling it's probably commonplace. Not that it makes it right, though.

The outrage is going to be overdone by those who had an agenda going into it... and accepted as an unfortunate incident by others who just want to move on.

Personally, I just want the Rams game to start.

McDman
11-28-2010, 12:41 PM
I ddint know we did that, doesn't surprise me though. Like I said in another post, I really think all teams cheat, most just don't get caught.

That being said, what McD did was retarded knowing his past with this guy and this incident.

Dagmar
11-28-2010, 12:41 PM
Winning it solves alot

I think we could go 6 & 0 for the rest of the year and this fan base would still be horrifically divided.

Archer81
11-28-2010, 12:42 PM
So much drama for 6 minutes of film that the HC did not even look at.


:Broncos:

vancejohnson82
11-28-2010, 12:43 PM
i honestly think that our losing record makes this LESS of a big deal...

Popps
11-28-2010, 12:45 PM
i honestly think that our losing record makes this LESS of a big deal...

True... nationally.

But, "locally," a bigger deal.

spdirty
11-28-2010, 12:45 PM
It is yet another black eye for the franchise. At least Shanny was creative with his cheating. And we won 2 Super Bowls. I would be more than willing to look the other way if we were 9-2. And we as Broncos fans are ****ing pissed right now. Hoping that this would give Bowlen an out to fire his worthless ass, the half wits up there ****ed that up. And now we have to suffer through more of this embarrassment roaming the sidelines.

Gort
11-28-2010, 12:45 PM
So much drama for 6 minutes of film that the HC did not even look at.


:Broncos:

agreed.

you should have seen the indignation on the CBS pregame show (maybe you did). cowher demanded a higher fine and loss of draft picks. esiason thinks McD's days here are numbered. then cowher re-iterated that the Broncos ought to lose draft picks.

all the cowher nuthuggers can jump on somebody else's nuts now. even if McD were fired, i think it's pretty clear from cowher's comments that there is 0% chance he'd ever consider a job in Denver, which is fine by me because he gets on my nerves anyway.

tsiguy96
11-28-2010, 12:47 PM
agreed.

you should have seen the indignation on the CBS pregame show (maybe you did). cowher demanded a higher fine and loss of draft picks. esiason thinks McD's days here are numbered. then cowher re-iterated that the Broncos ought to lose draft picks.

all the cowher nuthuggers can jump on somebody else's nuts now. even if McD were fired, i think it's pretty clear from cowher's comments that there is 0% chance he'd ever consider a job in Denver, which is fine by me because he gets on my nerves anyway.

im just ready for next season to start, if mcd is coach im not sure how this forum will even work anymore.

spdirty
11-28-2010, 12:48 PM
So much drama for 6 minutes of film that the HC did not even look at.


:Broncos:

I hope you were being sarcastic there.

ScottXray
11-28-2010, 12:48 PM
agreed.

you should have seen the indignation on the CBS pregame show (maybe you did). cowher demanded a higher fine and loss of draft picks. esiason thinks McD's days here are numbered. then cowher re-iterated that the Broncos ought to lose draft picks.

all the cowher nuthuggers can jump on somebody else's nuts now. even if McD were fired, i think it's pretty clear from cowher's comments that there is 0% chance he'd ever consider a job in Denver, which is fine by me because he gets on my nerves anyway.

AGree with this....there was no discussion of WHAT happened, just that it was Spygate II and the fines and drat picks should be levied.

And Cowher has had a bone over Denver since we punked him and "flash" in the 98 AFCCG in his house.

Archer81
11-28-2010, 12:49 PM
agreed.

you should have seen the indignation on the CBS pregame show (maybe you did). cowher demanded a higher fine and loss of draft picks. esiason thinks McD's days here are numbered. then cowher re-iterated that the Broncos ought to lose draft picks.

all the cowher nuthuggers can jump on somebody else's nuts now. even if McD were fired, i think it's pretty clear from cowher's comments that there is 0% chance he'd ever consider a job in Denver, which is fine by me because he gets on my nerves anyway.


I glanced at ESPN when my brother had their pregame show on and then saw the one on Fox. Not one time did they even attempt to actually portray what happened. This situation is unlike the Patriots fiasco because for the Pats it was a systematic approach to studying opponents. The film dude in Denver recorded 6 minutes of SF walkthrough on some BS whim.

But if you only watch the pregame shows, what impression do you get? And for the record Jay Glazer can suck my dick.

:Broncos:

Popps
11-28-2010, 12:49 PM
agreed.

you should have seen the indignation on the CBS pregame show (maybe you did). cowher demanded a higher fine and loss of draft picks. esiason thinks McD's days here are numbered. then cowher re-iterated that the Broncos ought to lose draft picks.

all the cowher nuthuggers can jump on somebody else's nuts now. even if McD were fired, i think it's pretty clear from cowher's comments that there is 0% chance he'd ever consider a job in Denver, which is fine by me because he gets on my nerves anyway.

Cowher and Esiason slammed us. Cowher did it because he basically said he didn't believe the story. Fair enough, but the league made the decision. They did their investigation. Esiason did it because in his words, we got rid of Cutler, Marshaller, Sheffler and Hillis... as if that has a ****ing thing to do with the story.

We should be punished because we made 3 good trades and one bad one?

spdirty
11-28-2010, 12:50 PM
agreed.

you should have seen the indignation on the CBS pregame show (maybe you did). cowher demanded a higher fine and loss of draft picks. esiason thinks McD's days here are numbered. then cowher re-iterated that the Broncos ought to lose draft picks.

all the cowher nuthuggers can jump on somebody else's nuts now. even if McD were fired, i think it's pretty clear from cowher's comments that there is 0% chance he'd ever consider a job in Denver, which is fine by me because he gets on my nerves anyway.

Good. I'm glad Cowher destroyed any chance of him becoming our next coach.

Archer81
11-28-2010, 12:50 PM
I hope you were being sarcastic there.


No. Its fairly obvious when I am being sarcastic.


:Broncos:

rbackfactory80
11-28-2010, 12:54 PM
Cowher and Esiason slammed us. Cowher did it because he basically said he didn't believe the story. Fair enough, but the league made the decision. They did their investigation. Esiason did it because in his words, we got rid of Cutler, Marshaller, Sheffler and Hillis... as if that has a ****ing thing to do with the story.

We should be punished because we made 3 good trades and one bad one?

That's not his point and you know that. To the media and I would guess 50 percent of Denver's fan-base all of those were bad trades. Everything looks worse when you are losing and everyone has an agenda. Esiason has always thought we made foolish moves and looking at the overall picture, and wins, Denver has not looked good this year. This is just ammo at this point.

snowspot66
11-28-2010, 12:54 PM
Great post.

One of my favorite things about this board is the high-horse brigade. Always good for a laugh.

.

Gort
11-28-2010, 12:55 PM
Cowher and Esiason slammed us. Cowher did it because he basically said he didn't believe the story. Fair enough, but the league made the decision. They did their investigation. Esiason did it because in his words, we got rid of Cutler, Marshaller, Sheffler and Hillis... as if that has a ****ing thing to do with the story.

We should be punished because we made 3 good trades and one bad one?

esiason was putting this new controversy in context with the bad trades/drafts, the 59-14 blowout at home to OAK, and the 5-15 record over the past 20 games as if momentum was building for McD being canned, which is pretty much what's been happening on the OM for several weeks now. i know esiason isn't a Broncos fan, but i got the sense that he was being nonpartisan in his analysis... to the outsider, it appears that the past 1 1/2 years (under McD) have been a tranwreck. cowher on the other hand appeared to be vindictive and hyper-partisan in his remarks. as far as i'm concerned, he and his freakish chin can go **** themselves.

NYBronco
11-28-2010, 12:56 PM
AGree with this....there was no discussion of WHAT happened, just that it was Spygate II and the fines and drat picks should be levied.

And Cowher has had a bone over Denver since we punked him and "flash" in the 98 AFCCG in his house.

No mention or quote from the official NFL statement on the issue.

Popps
11-28-2010, 12:57 PM
I would guess 50 percent of Denver's fan-base all of those were bad trades. .

Uh huh.

So, 50% of the fan base are idiots, I guess.

Where does that enter into how we should be punished? I miss the connection.

Archer81
11-28-2010, 12:57 PM
No mention or quote from the official NFL statement on the issue.


Listening to Howie Long wax poetic about the Broncos "cheating" made me laugh my ass off this morning. This from a guy who played for a team that wrote the book on how to cheat in the NFL.

**** off, flat top.

:Broncos:

Pony Boy
11-28-2010, 12:58 PM
My wife put Armor-All on the kitchen floor once, it looked great but you had to crawl on you hands and knees to get to the refrigerator ........... hell the cat couldn’t even stand up.

NYBronco
11-28-2010, 01:03 PM
Listening to Howie Long wax poetic about the Broncos "cheating" made me laugh my ass off this morning. This from a guy who played for a team that wrote the book on how to cheat in the NFL.

**** off, flat top.

:Broncos:

Wow... these "professional" announcers/ex NFL football players will hold a grudge to their grave and ignore/not consider all the facts.

I watched the CBS show but missed Fox. I can't wait to listen to Colin Cowherd Monday.

Popps
11-28-2010, 01:05 PM
esiason was putting this new controversy in context with the bad trades/drafts, the 59-14 blowout at home to OAK, and the 5-15 record over the past 20 games as if momentum was building for McD being canned, which is pretty much what's been happening on the OM for several weeks now. i know esiason isn't a Broncos fan, but i got the sense that he was being nonpartisan in his analysis... to the outsider, it appears that the past 1 1/2 years (under McD) have been a tranwreck. cowher on the other hand appeared to be vindictive and hyper-partisan in his remarks. as far as i'm concerned, he and his freakish chin can go **** themselves.

Fair enough. I shouldn't expect more from these guys, of course. I'm more interested in why Glazer managed to go on a 10 minute tirade and couldn't produce one source of his evidence.


I'm even on the fence myself as far as what I believe. But, our trades had nothing to do with it.

This incident should be judged on the facts as the league has collected them.

That said, I get it... these pre-game shows need to sell beer and erectile dysfunction meds, so they're going to be as sensational as possible.

Gort
11-28-2010, 01:11 PM
That said, I get it... these pre-game shows need to sell beer and erectile dysfunction meds, so they're going to be as sensational as possible.

the CBS show had a Victoria's Secret model on for one of the segments. Marino couldn't wipe the smile off his face.

WABronco
11-28-2010, 01:33 PM
You can try to rationalize it however you want. Point is it's another strike against this regime and it makes our coach look like an idiot. If we were winning my reaction would be: "figures." Since we're losing the reaction is: "figures...****ing idiot." Not that much difference to me.

KipCorrington25
11-28-2010, 01:35 PM
His downfall isn't the act itself it's THE COVER UP.

The guy is a liar.

Popps
11-28-2010, 01:40 PM
You can try to rationalize it however you want. Point is it's another strike against this regime and it makes our coach look like an idiot. If we were winning my reaction would be: "figures." Since we're losing the reaction is: "figures...****ing idiot." Not that much difference to me.

Pretty much true, and I don't think there is any rationalizing going on... so much as putting it in perspective.

But, overall... I agree with what you're saying.

broncosteven
11-28-2010, 01:47 PM
Can someone fill me in on the Pam incident. Not living in Denver back then the only incident I remember was when the Packers complained of a substance on the OL at which point they wiped down.

Was this a common occurance in the SB run years? Was there another time they were asked to wipe down?

No one was fined and no one was ejected (from what I remember) so I don't see how it compares to this repeat offence?

elsid13
11-28-2010, 01:54 PM
Can someone fill me in on the Pam incident. Not living in Denver back then the only incident I remember was when the Packers complained of a substance on the OL at which point they wiped down.

Was this a common occurance in the SB run years? Was there another time they were asked to wipe down?

No one was fined and no one was ejected (from what I remember) so I don't see how it compares to this repeat offence?

It during the 97 SB run at KC. The linemen sprayed themselves to keep KC DL from holding them. There was no penalty and no fine.

Gort
11-28-2010, 01:55 PM
Can someone fill me in on the Pam incident. Not living in Denver back then the only incident I remember was when the Packers complained of a substance on the OL at which point they wiped down.

Was this a common occurance in the SB run years? Was there another time they were asked to wipe down?

No one was fined and no one was ejected (from what I remember) so I don't see how it compares to this repeat offence?

Lester Hayes had giant octopuses surgically grafted to his hands and elbows. it was legal back then. in 1980, he 47,003 interceptions. true story.

nowadays rules are for wusses.

DomCasual
11-28-2010, 01:57 PM
It during the 97 SB run at KC. The linemen sprayed themselves to keep KC DL from holding them. There was no penalty and no fine.

Bringing it up on ChefsPlanet is fun for the whole family. :)

elsid13
11-28-2010, 02:01 PM
Bringing it up on ChefsPlanet is fun for the whole family. :)

The linemen wouldn't have to spray themselves, if the Chef defense men didn't cheat and hold them.

DomCasual
11-28-2010, 02:04 PM
The linemen wouldn't have to spray themselves, if the Chef defense men didn't cheat and hold them.

THe DENVER DONKEYS IS A BUNCH OF CHEATERZ!!!1!!1!

elsid13
11-28-2010, 02:09 PM
THe DENVER DONKEYS IS A BUNCH OF CHEATERZ!!!1!!1!

Hold on, Sharpe is currently calling the girlfriends of the defense linemen.

Kaylore
11-28-2010, 04:03 PM
Like I said before, I'm more pissed we lost, nay, got our asses kicked at home by the Raiders than the spygate lite fiasco. What's sad is it didn't even help. It's like even when we cheat we suck.

And here we are at home losing to the Rams. This team is terrible. I don't disagree with who he's traded away, but I disagree with his poor drafting and his "system" doesn't work. At the end of the day, McDaniels isn't ready to be a head coach and certainly not ready to be a personnel guy.

missingnumber7
11-28-2010, 04:19 PM
Like I said before, I'm more pissed we lost, nay, got our asses kicked at home by the Raiders than the spygate lite fiasco. What's sad is it didn't even help. It's like even when we cheat we suck.

And here we are at home losing to the Rams. This team is terrible. I don't disagree with who he's traded away, but I disagree with his poor drafting and his "system" doesn't work. At the end of the day, McDaniels isn't ready to be a head coach and certainly not ready to be a personnel guy.

Why would you tape a walk through anyway? Even if he didn't authorize it someone inside the system did it, some Xanders or McDaniels hired. And if you tape a walk through there is only one thing you could be looking to do and that is gain a competitive advantage that the other team does not get. You have all the film you could desire from all sorts of different angles to look at. I just see a team that I love being ran by people who's moral compass sucks.

DomCasual
11-29-2010, 03:25 PM
Can someone fill me in on the Pam incident. Not living in Denver back then the only incident I remember was when the Packers complained of a substance on the OL at which point they wiped down.

Was this a common occurance in the SB run years? Was there another time they were asked to wipe down?

No one was fined and no one was ejected (from what I remember) so I don't see how it compares to this repeat offence?

Apparently, the Broncos linemen made a habit of spraying their arms and jerseys with cooking spray, back in the day. (I say "apparently" because there was only one time it was actually made public - a game against the Chiefs, IIRC, where they were made to go to the locker room and clean up).

According to Chiefs fans, the Broncos, during the same period, regularly raped women and killed puppies, but I digress.

But one way or another - even if it happened that one game - it was cheating. You could argue the degree; but it's against the rules.

The funny thing is, I vaguely remember a poll on ChefsPlanet (or maybe it was SignOnSanDiego) that asked if they would condone cheating for a Lombardi Trophy. Overwhelmingly, they said they would.