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Popps
11-25-2010, 04:53 PM
(The "Solution" was taken already.)

Obviously, these are just some bullet points. You could go through positionally in much greater detail than I did.
These are some notes that, along with our impact players being healthy, could make a big difference.


Positional Coaches - It's too early to know who will be available, but we need to consider upgrades at a few spots, including OL.
Preferably a veteran positional coach and preferably one with power-blocking scheme experience.

Hire Rod Smith - He's been present, but someone explain why this guy isn't a WR coach, or some kind of offensive assistant.
He seems driven to do it, and we've got a slew of younger WR's who could use this guy's guidance. This simply makes too
much sense not to have done already. Imagine the impact this could have for Thomas.

Add premiere RT - Harris simply can't be counted on, and there's question as to whether he's really suited. Beadles and Walton look to be good enough to develop into quality starters, but we need top-flight book-ends. Go out and get the best possible option
via FA and lock up to long-term deal. (If Tebow starts at some point, this would be his blind side protector.)

Add Premiere DT - This could be a problem in FA, but the draft looks deeper. We need a Seymour-caliber 3/4 DE talent on that
line. Guys like Bannan are great in rotation, but we need an impact player there. I like the idea of trying to find value vets, but we simply have to improve this area and if that means spending $$, then so be it.

Add a NT - We can probably squeeze another season out of WIlliams if we use him carefully. But, we need a true NT to groom
behind him. This has to be addressed in the draft, as it's unlikely any are available in FA.

Note: There are a few intriguing options available via FA, but not a ton:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2011/fa/dl.html
(List may be outdated.)

Revamp the ILB positions:
I honestly don't think DJ is suited to play in a 3-4, much less inside. But, his DUI spoils the chance to trade him for any decent
value. So, we're probably going to have to live with him there. But, we absolutely have to obtain a true 3-4 ILB. A hammer-type
who can plug the run and hold his own in coverage. Haggan is a back-up caliber player. He's done fine as a fill-in, but the
guy is a rotational player. I wouldn't mind if ILB was our #1 pick this year, provided the fit is there.

Find our next defensive leader:
Dawkins is probably in his last season, unless he's willing to stick around in a back-up role and even then, I'm not sure that
makes sense. I absolutely love the guy... but we've got to be realistic. We need to fill the void of him leaving.
I'm not sure if this means that we bring in a free agent with his leadership skills, or a young guy like Doom or Ayers
steps up as the future leader, but this defense needs more guys who serve roles like Romo and Webster used to for us. In particular, we need front seven leadership in a big way.


Change to orange jerseys:
No matter who is coach, we're still rebuilding and will still likely have our struggles next season.
Throw the fans a bone... and bring some orange mojo back to Denver.

Hire John Elway: I believe TombstoneRJ came up with this, among other people probably. It's a great idea. He's
also been lurking around, and there's no reason not to have him assigned to some sort of upper management, personnel
role. Tombstone described using him as a go-between for coaches/Bowlen, etc. Excellent idea, and again... great
mojo and a good PR move. But, John is a bright guy. This wouldn't JUST be for PR. His experience could help the
franchise.

Expand Tebow's Role:
Orton is still our best every-down option and has shown the ability to be extremely effective when things are in place around him.
But, we drafted Tebow for his versatility, and we need to work him into the offense on a larger scale. These two players could
be very complimentary to each other and really give offenses problems. This should come naturally with his progression, but it
should really be a focus to open up the playbook for him. This is also going to add some fire to the offense, and potentially
ramp up the leadership-factor on that side of the ball.

McDman
11-25-2010, 05:03 PM
I don't have time to read it right now but I'm sure it took a long time to write.

TDmvp
11-25-2010, 05:06 PM
I don't have time to read it right now but I'm sure it took a long time to write.

And I bet it's all TOTALLY doable :O)...

Man-Goblin
11-25-2010, 05:08 PM
What about Kubiak?

TDmvp
11-25-2010, 05:16 PM
What about Kubiak?

http://obamiconme.pastemagazine.com/entries/images/94/ae/1901104/original_image.png?1290730339

Popps
11-25-2010, 05:25 PM
I don't have time to read it right now but I'm sure it took a long time to write.

Basically, it's a long-winded plea for us to hire Kubiak.

gunns
11-25-2010, 05:28 PM
Basically, it's a long-winded plea for us to hire Kubiak.

I was totally agreeing with it until I read this.

TDmvp
11-25-2010, 05:28 PM
Basically, it's a long-winded plea for us to hire Kubiak.

:thumbsup:


I knew you would come around ROFL!

edit: (and I don't wan't Kubes but it's damn funny)

Popps
11-25-2010, 05:34 PM
i was totally agreeing with it until i read this.

lol

frerottenextelway
11-25-2010, 05:35 PM
Bringing in Kubiak would be just trying to relive our glory days. We should bring in Elway and Rod Smith instead.

oubronco
11-25-2010, 05:38 PM
We need more young talented guys on Defense especially the D-line and a solid D-coordinator and Quit abandoning the running game so early and get away from this college offense

Popps
11-25-2010, 05:41 PM
Bringing in Kubiak would be just trying to relive our glory days. We should bring in Elway and Rod Smith instead.

Neither has been a coach or executive for our club.

Oh, and I'm not against Kubiak becuaes it would be reliving glory days.. I'm against it because he hasn't shown a thing as a head coach.

oubronco
11-25-2010, 05:44 PM
Neither has been a coach or executive for our club.

Oh, and I'm not against Kubiak becuaes it would be reliving glory days.. I'm against it because he hasn't shown a thing as a head coach.

What about Jim Mora jr

Popps
11-25-2010, 05:47 PM
What about Jim Mora jr

I just can't see making a move for a younger guy when it's going to result in likely the same thing... a few years of rebuilding.

Plus, this plan relies on the high likelihood that McDaniels is our coach next season.

I see few scenarios where that isn't the case.

oubronco
11-25-2010, 05:50 PM
He's a more defensive run the ball kinda coach and we need toughness on this team starting at the top IMO

rbackfactory80
11-25-2010, 06:28 PM
Williams is done as far as I am concerned. He turned it on a couple of games but the rest has been below average. Harris is a backup, nothing more nothing less. We need someone to count on.

That leaves big spots there along with CB, DL, S with Dawkins not likely to do much next year, and a year of struggles with Tebow getting experience.

Popps
11-25-2010, 06:35 PM
Williams is done as far as I am concerned. He turned it on a couple of games but the rest has been below average.

He's not a long-term solution in the middle. It sure looked like he was back to his jogging routine last week in San Diego, too.

Harris is a backup, nothing more nothing less. We need someone to count on.

.

Remember when we traded for Jones? We need that move, again. That was so brilliant.


That leaves big spots there along with CB, DL, S with Dawkins not likely to do much next year, and a year of struggles with Tebow getting experience.


I think we have some options at CB... but S will be an obvious draft need.
The DL is also a no-brainer. But, I think with the return of our pass-rush, even two impact players on defense might be enough to help make real progress.


Again, a lot of this also hinges on whether or not Wink is the real deal. The jury is way out on that. It's only recently that' he's figured out how many people to have on the field.

gyldenlove
11-25-2010, 06:36 PM
Coaching changes:

We need to hire a ST coordinator who knows what he is doing, I would be all for getting someone from college, with extensive background in ST coaching. Priefer is atrociously bad, the unit right now is obviously poorly coached and you can tell.
Defensive coordinator is also a spot we need to look at, we need a 3-4 guy who can run the defense, a Dick Lebeau kind of guy (Not actually Dick Lebeau), someone who can run the defense almost independently of the head coach, call the plays and be involved with scouting. Consider how many offensive systems we have had over the last 15 years (2) and how good our offense has been with changing players, compared to how many defensive coordinators we have had over the last 5 years (5) and how bad our defense has been with changing players. We need to establish some sort of consistency on defense so players we acquire this year will also fit next year and the year after.
Running back/offensive line coach, right now the run game is not working as well as it should be and it is too easy for Mcdaniels to abandon it because there is no strong proponent of the run game in the coaching team, we need someone who will work with the run game, who can speak for the run game and who can make it work.

Draft

We have needed to draft defensive front, especially DT for 5 years at least, and it hasn't happened. Sure getting a guy in th 4th or 5th round is technically drafting defensive line, but you need to add top talent at some point, and top defensive linemen are not getting into free agency. We need to get defensive line in the top 2 rounds, it is already overdue and every year we don't is another year of futility added.

Running back, we need a complementary running back to Moreno. Buckhalter has slowed down a lot and is now almost purely a pass blocker, Maroney was not the answer to any question outside of who can run 100 yards sideways without gaining a single scrimmage yard and Lance Ball is not a guy you want as the number 2 on your depth chart. I would like to get a pass catching RB, maybe a Noel Devine or someone similar.

Popps
11-25-2010, 06:42 PM
Gydl,

I actually had an extra RB as part of the list, but figured there were too many secondary needs like that and I would stick with primary... but I do agree.

Also agree on ST's, but we have been better on coverage as of late.

Requiem
11-25-2010, 06:47 PM
I think this is a good recipe in order to get to the right direction.

If things keep going the way they are, the Broncos will have 4 selections in the top 75 to 80 picks. There will be premium players at positions of need well into the third round of this draft. We cannot afford to gamble with these selections. They need to be picks based on need and they need to be quality players. NT, DE, LB and DB. One of each, it really couldn't hurt.

If we were able to accumulate more picks, a versatile RB would be needed as well. Hell, we could use a power back and a nice scat type guy to compliment Moreno.

There is not much I can disagree with here.

Good thread, Popps.

colonelbeef
11-25-2010, 07:06 PM
How about Gruden as the HC, with Kubiak as OC

Taco John
11-25-2010, 07:17 PM
(The "Solution" was taken already.)

Obviously, these are just some bullet points. You could go through positionally in much greater detail than I did.
These are some notes that, along with our impact players being healthy, could make a big difference.


Positional Coaches - It's too early to know who will be available, but we need to consider upgrades at a few spots, including OL.
Preferably a veteran positional coach and preferably one with power-blocking scheme experience.

Hire Rod Smith - He's been present, but someone explain why this guy isn't a WR coach, or some kind of offensive assistant.
He seems driven to do it, and we've got a slew of younger WR's who could use this guy's guidance. This simply makes too
much sense not to have done already. Imagine the impact this could have for Thomas.

Add premiere RT - Harris simply can't be counted on, and there's question as to whether he's really suited. Beadles and Walton look to be good enough to develop into quality starters, but we need top-flight book-ends. Go out and get the best possible option
via FA and lock up to long-term deal. (If Tebow starts at some point, this would be his blind side protector.)

Add Premiere DT - This could be a problem in FA, but the draft looks deeper. We need a Seymour-caliber 3/4 DE talent on that
line. Guys like Bannan are great in rotation, but we need an impact player there. I like the idea of trying to find value vets, but we simply have to improve this area and if that means spending $$, then so be it.

Add a NT - We can probably squeeze another season out of WIlliams if we use him carefully. But, we need a true NT to groom
behind him. This has to be addressed in the draft, as it's unlikely any are available in FA.

Note: There are a few intriguing options available via FA, but not a ton:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2011/fa/dl.html
(List may be outdated.)

Revamp the ILB positions:
I honestly don't think DJ is suited to play in a 3-4, much less inside. But, his DUI spoils the chance to trade him for any decent
value. So, we're probably going to have to live with him there. But, we absolutely have to obtain a true 3-4 ILB. A hammer-type
who can plug the run and hold his own in coverage. Haggan is a back-up caliber player. He's done fine as a fill-in, but the
guy is a rotational player. I wouldn't mind if ILB was our #1 pick this year, provided the fit is there.

Find our next defensive leader:
Dawkins is probably in his last season, unless he's willing to stick around in a back-up role and even then, I'm not sure that
makes sense. I absolutely love the guy... but we've got to be realistic. We need to fill the void of him leaving.
I'm not sure if this means that we bring in a free agent with his leadership skills, or a young guy like Doom or Ayers
steps up as the future leader, but this defense needs more guys who serve roles like Romo and Webster used to for us. In particular, we need front seven leadership in a big way.


Change to orange jerseys:
No matter who is coach, we're still rebuilding and will still likely have our struggles next season.
Throw the fans a bone... and bring some orange mojo back to Denver.

Hire John Elway: I believe TombstoneRJ came up with this, among other people probably. It's a great idea. He's
also been lurking around, and there's no reason not to have him assigned to some sort of upper management, personnel
role. Tombstone described using him as a go-between for coaches/Bowlen, etc. Excellent idea, and again... great
mojo and a good PR move. But, John is a bright guy. This wouldn't JUST be for PR. His experience could help the
franchise.

Expand Tebow's Role:
Orton is still our best every-down option and has shown the ability to be extremely effective when things are in place around him.
But, we drafted Tebow for his versatility, and we need to work him into the offense on a larger scale. These two players could
be very complimentary to each other and really give offenses problems. This should come naturally with his progression, but it
should really be a focus to open up the playbook for him. This is also going to add some fire to the offense, and potentially
ramp up the leadership-factor on that side of the ball.


"Let's blow up what Josh has done to date, hit the reset button and rebuild, but let's keep Josh."

Inkana7
11-25-2010, 07:27 PM
How about Gruden as the HC, with Kubiak as OC

Man if you hate McDaniels why the hell would you want Gruden?

Baba Booey
11-25-2010, 07:39 PM
Donta Hightower would be perfect for the ILB spot imo. He plays it in the 3-4 at Bama and was arguably their best LB last year (yes, McClain included) before he got hurt.

Popps
11-25-2010, 07:43 PM
"Let's blow up what Josh has done to date, hit the reset button and rebuild, but let's keep Josh."

I wish that made any sense.

If it did, it would be worth responding to.

Popps
11-25-2010, 07:44 PM
Donta Hightower would be perfect for the ILB spot imo. He plays it in the 3-4 at Bama and was arguably their best LB last year (yes, McClain included) before he got hurt.

Projected round?

rugbythug
11-25-2010, 07:44 PM
I agree with Gyld. I want Bowlen to go get Wade Phillips. Just tell him. Wade you are may DC. Whether McD makes it out of this or not. Give me a consistent D Cord. For a few years so that the broncos can actually groom replacements. Currently every player on D we draft nearly has to start day one or we are in trouble. Both the Ravens and the Steelers are drafting for 2 years from now on Defense.

ColoradoDarin
11-25-2010, 07:48 PM
"Let's blow up what Josh has done to date, hit the reset button and rebuild, but let's keep Josh."

Except, like... not?

Requiem
11-25-2010, 07:50 PM
I wish that made any sense.

If it did, it would be worth responding to.

Yeah, it made no sense at all. It is just adding players and making changes where we could use some help.

As for Hightower, I would not touch him within the first two rounds. He is slow, does not move well (he had a knee injury) and is nothing special at all. If you want a prospect who is late to the ball on a consistent basis and doesn't make too many big plays, he would be your guy. Don't know if he'll even come out this year.

Sturdivant and Jones are the top ILB in my mind, but a lot of people like Jones on the outside in a 4-3.

HAT
11-25-2010, 08:01 PM
Projected round?

http://walterfootball.com/draft2011ILB.php

# Dont'a Hightower*, ILB, Alabama
Height: 6-4. Weight: 250.
Projected 40 Time: 4.85.
Projected Round (2011): 3-4.
10/9/10: Hightower is ridiculously overrated right now. I've seen a very slow, sluggish player on tape with no range (though this could be the result of his knee injury). He's always getting to the play late and delivering a big hit at an irrelevant time when he's the second or third player to the ball-carrier. I don't like his lethargic body language or jogging around on the field in the middle of the play. Buyer beware.

5/12/10: Dont'a Hightower is a very talented linebacker, but played only four games in 2009 because of a knee injury that required surgery.

scorpio
11-25-2010, 09:28 PM
"Let's blow up what Josh has done to date, hit the reset button and rebuild, but let's keep Josh."

Are you mad that nobody likes your Kubiak idea?

Taco John
11-25-2010, 09:33 PM
Are you mad that nobody likes your Kubiak idea?

Not at all. I didn't expect that maybe 25% of people would like that idea. That's how ideas are until they work out, and then everybody thought it was a good idea that they were down with all along.

Requiem
11-25-2010, 09:34 PM
Too bad it is a dumb idea that will never come to fruition. So more of a delusion, I guess.

Bronco Yoda
11-25-2010, 09:35 PM
I agee with just about everything the OP posted. Still on the fence about Tebow. Do we start him next year or let him sit more. Guess it depends on how he's really developing and none of us have that kind of inside info.

Do we leverage our high draft position to trade down to get more picks next year?

misturanderson
11-25-2010, 09:44 PM
I agee with just about everything the OP posted. Still on the fence about Tebow. Do we start him next year or let him sit more. Guess it depends on how he's really developing and none of us have that kind of inside info.

Do we leverage our high draft position to trade down to get more picks next year?

I think it has to depend on who is available when we pick. If we have a shot at a top-tier DL, ILB or S candidate that is worthy of the spot we're at, we need to take him. If not, there are other positions we have less of a need at, but the players available may be worth more for us to take then to trade down. CB, rush OLB, C and T come to mind

It will be very hard to tell for sure until we see how we actually end the season and how the crop of draftable players turns out. Unfortunately this draft class may suck with the uncertainty regarding next year's season. Why would any junior come out this year if he won't get paid until the next year anyway?

BigPlayShay
11-25-2010, 09:47 PM
Bring in Parcells as a consultant.

ZONA
11-25-2010, 09:57 PM
Fix what's broken and leave what's working alone. I like Rod Smith as much as the next guy but this team isn't hurting in the WR dept. Let him come in and work the the guys, I got no problem with that. But I think Josh and the WR coach have a good handle on these WR's. They are coached well and they obviously evaluate the talent at that position very well. That part aint broke so don't try to fix it.

I agree - the OL coach needs to go and they need to find somebody who can get more out of this group. Somebody who is well versed in multiple schemes would be great, just overall great knowledge of line blocking technique and scheme.


As for the draft, I think obviously we need DL players. With Ayers improving and Doom coming back, and DJ is playing great, and our depth will be good with Ayers and Doom back, I don't think LB is a huge issue. If you're front guys aren't playing good, it's hard for your LB's to look good. This defense needs to sack the QB. It's not good enough to 'almost get there' as you saw how many good passes Rivers threw with the pocket closing on him. So 1st I would say get a few impact DL players with the first few picks. I think it all starts there. Everybody else will play better if the front guys can stuff the run and rush the passer better.

Now to the offense. Let's face it, this is a wide open pass first offense but I think Josh is realizing you have to have at least a respectable run game to take the pressure off the passing game. I personally think what's needed is a big time speed type of RB who is still elusive and tough. Moreno is fine, but we definitely need a "threat" type of guy on the field alot more.

Back to the defense - middle to late rounds I think we do need to keep adding CB's and Safety's until we find that hidden gem. Our secondary is just flat out too old.

Popps
11-25-2010, 10:01 PM
Are you mad that nobody likes your Kubiak idea?

C'mon dude, you can't argue with the brilliance of firing slightly sub-.500 coach 1.5 years into his tenure... so we can hire a slightly sub-.500 coach who's had 5 seasons to show anything and hasn't been able to do so.

Popps
11-25-2010, 10:04 PM
Fix what's broken and leave what's working alone. I like Rod Smith as much as the next guy but this team isn't hurting in the WR dept. Let him come in and work the the guys, I got no problem with that. But I think Josh and the WR coach have a good handle on these WR's.

Yea, you make a good point... but my thought was more for the younger players to help their development, and potentially even have Rod move into some sort of assistant offensive coach role.

I have no idea if he'd be interested or qualified, but it seems like he might be.

The Joker
11-25-2010, 10:44 PM
I just don't see ILB as that big of a need to be honest.

It's only a 2-down, run stuffing position in our defense anyway and I think between Mays and Haggan we'd be OK if there was any sort of talent on the D-Line to help the backers out.

We've already got a pretty hefty amount of money invested at the LB position with DJ and Doom on lucrative deals, and Ayers is another one the staff will have in their long terms plans, so no way I can see an early pick on an ILB.

2 of our first four picks in the next draft 100% NEED to be spent on a DE and a NT, no excuses. After that, a starting safety safety, a competent backup RB and an insurance plan/ future starter OT need to be found.

In a perfect world for me we'd be able to trade Orton for a 2nd or a 3rd and spend our first five picks on those positions.

misturanderson
11-25-2010, 10:53 PM
I just don't see ILB as that big of a need to be honest.

It's only a 2-down, run stuffing position in our defense anyway and I think between Mays and Haggan we'd be OK if there was any sort of talent on the D-Line to help the backers out.

We've already got a pretty hefty amount of money invested at the LB position with DJ and Doom on lucrative deals, and Ayers is another one the staff will have in their long terms plans, so no way I can see an early pick on an ILB.

2 of our first four picks in the next draft 100% NEED to be spent on a DE and a NT, no excuses. After that, a starting safety safety, a competent backup RB and an insurance plan/ future starter OT need to be found.

In a perfect world for me we'd be able to trade Orton for a 2nd or a 3rd and spend our first five picks on those positions.
I totally agree with you on which positions we need to address.

I'm not sure though that we should be shopping Orton on the prospect that Tebow may be able to come in and start next year. It just seems too risky to get rid of a guy that can be a top 10 QB with good protection for a complete unknown. Especially when it is for picks in a draft that could be very weak in underclassmen talent due to the CBA uncertainty.

I would keep Orton one more year or at least through training camp as an insurance policy on Tebow's development or lack thereof. If Tebow earns the right to start then trade Orton to a desperate team.

HAT
11-25-2010, 11:19 PM
I totally agree with you on which positions we need to address.

I'm not sure though that we should be shopping Orton on the prospect that Tebow may be able to come in and start next year. It just seems too risky to get rid of a guy that can be a top 10 QB with good protection for a complete unknown. Especially when it is for picks in a draft that could be very weak in underclassmen talent due to the CBA uncertainty.

I would keep Orton one more year or at least through training camp as an insurance policy on Tebow's development or lack thereof. If Tebow earns the right to start then trade Orton to a desperate team.

Orton's trade value will be at it's highest in the spring. If and when a team decides that they won't find their QBOTF in the draft and that Orton is an upgrade over whoever they have already...They're going to want him in the fold early for the full compliment of camps, NFLX.

If it happens, I hope it's some combination of picks/players. Trading him for a single pick puts way too much pressure on hitting that pick.

spdirty
11-25-2010, 11:46 PM
(The "Solution" was taken already.)

Obviously, these are just some bullet points. You could go through positionally in much greater detail than I did.
These are some notes that, along with our impact players being healthy, could make a big difference.


Positional Coaches - It's too early to know who will be available, but we need to consider upgrades at a few spots, including OL.
Preferably a veteran positional coach and preferably one with power-blocking scheme experience.

Hire Rod Smith - He's been present, but someone explain why this guy isn't a WR coach, or some kind of offensive assistant.
He seems driven to do it, and we've got a slew of younger WR's who could use this guy's guidance. This simply makes too
much sense not to have done already. Imagine the impact this could have for Thomas.

Add premiere RT - Harris simply can't be counted on, and there's question as to whether he's really suited. Beadles and Walton look to be good enough to develop into quality starters, but we need top-flight book-ends. Go out and get the best possible option
via FA and lock up to long-term deal. (If Tebow starts at some point, this would be his blind side protector.)

Add Premiere DT - This could be a problem in FA, but the draft looks deeper. We need a Seymour-caliber 3/4 DE talent on that
line. Guys like Bannan are great in rotation, but we need an impact player there. I like the idea of trying to find value vets, but we simply have to improve this area and if that means spending $$, then so be it.

Add a NT - We can probably squeeze another season out of WIlliams if we use him carefully. But, we need a true NT to groom
behind him. This has to be addressed in the draft, as it's unlikely any are available in FA.

Note: There are a few intriguing options available via FA, but not a ton:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2011/fa/dl.html
(List may be outdated.)

Revamp the ILB positions:
I honestly don't think DJ is suited to play in a 3-4, much less inside. But, his DUI spoils the chance to trade him for any decent
value. So, we're probably going to have to live with him there. But, we absolutely have to obtain a true 3-4 ILB. A hammer-type
who can plug the run and hold his own in coverage. Haggan is a back-up caliber player. He's done fine as a fill-in, but the
guy is a rotational player. I wouldn't mind if ILB was our #1 pick this year, provided the fit is there.

Find our next defensive leader:
Dawkins is probably in his last season, unless he's willing to stick around in a back-up role and even then, I'm not sure that
makes sense. I absolutely love the guy... but we've got to be realistic. We need to fill the void of him leaving.
I'm not sure if this means that we bring in a free agent with his leadership skills, or a young guy like Doom or Ayers
steps up as the future leader, but this defense needs more guys who serve roles like Romo and Webster used to for us. In particular, we need front seven leadership in a big way.


Change to orange jerseys:
No matter who is coach, we're still rebuilding and will still likely have our struggles next season.
Throw the fans a bone... and bring some orange mojo back to Denver.

Hire John Elway: I believe TombstoneRJ came up with this, among other people probably. It's a great idea. He's
also been lurking around, and there's no reason not to have him assigned to some sort of upper management, personnel
role. Tombstone described using him as a go-between for coaches/Bowlen, etc. Excellent idea, and again... great
mojo and a good PR move. But, John is a bright guy. This wouldn't JUST be for PR. His experience could help the
franchise.

Expand Tebow's Role:
Orton is still our best every-down option and has shown the ability to be extremely effective when things are in place around him.
But, we drafted Tebow for his versatility, and we need to work him into the offense on a larger scale. These two players could
be very complimentary to each other and really give offenses problems. This should come naturally with his progression, but it
should really be a focus to open up the playbook for him. This is also going to add some fire to the offense, and potentially
ramp up the leadership-factor on that side of the ball.

I remember a while ago you saying we were "60% of where we need to be." now this **** is the 40% left? That looks like almost a complete revamp of the team.

misturanderson
11-25-2010, 11:54 PM
Orton's trade value will be at it's highest in the spring. If and when a team decides that they won't find their QBOTF in the draft and that Orton is an upgrade over whoever they have already...They're going to want him in the fold early for the full compliment of camps, NFLX.

If it happens, I hope it's some combination of picks/players. Trading him for a single pick puts way too much pressure on hitting that pick.
Well then I would wait until after next season to franchise and trade him.

I just don't think that 1 season is enough to be sure that Tebow will give us an equal or better chance to win than Orton. If the coaching staff thinks that Tebow has developed enough to truly take over then I guess they should go for it, but I don't think we should trade Orton just to see if Tebow can play on Sundays.

Cito Pelon
11-26-2010, 12:46 AM
Well, one of these days the BBT's 'Plan' to get this defense up to consistent respectability will come to fruition. Hopefully, it coincides with the O Plan and the ST Plan.

TomServo
11-26-2010, 01:34 AM
was HC in there anywhere?

colonelbeef
11-26-2010, 02:28 AM
Man if you hate McDaniels why the hell would you want Gruden?

How can you compare a super bowl winning HC with McDaniels?

driver
11-26-2010, 04:35 AM
Good analysis, especially the part about positional coaching staff. Harris I don't know he's a 4th year player 2 years ago he was darned near pro-bowl caliber, maybe w/proper coaching or a better strength program he could be again. DJ yes but trade him someone out there could use him. Same w/ Champ.
Lot's of good DE's In this class, LB's to. We really need a couple of good safeties out there. I liked last years draft except for the lack of defense. I loved the Tebow pick.
QB of the future IMO.

NYBronco
11-26-2010, 05:37 AM
Hire Rod Smith - He's been present, but someone explain why this guy isn't a WR coach, or some kind of offensive assistant.
He seems driven to do it, and we've got a slew of younger WR's who could use this guy's guidance. This simply makes too
much sense not to have done already. Imagine the impact this could have for Thomas.


I believe Thomas' development has more to do with his injury issues and not so much positional coaching. When playing he has shown why McD moved back in the draft and picked him up. The current WR positional coaches seem (to me at least) to be effective. Brandon Lloyd comes to mind here with his come out of nowhere near the top of the league in receptions, yards and TD's performance.

NYBronco
11-26-2010, 05:57 AM
Find our next defensive leader:
Dawkins is probably in his last season, unless he's willing to stick around in a back-up role and even then, I'm not sure that
makes sense. I absolutely love the guy... but we've got to be realistic. We need to fill the void of him leaving.
I'm not sure if this means that we bring in a free agent with his leadership skills, or a young guy like Doom or Ayers
steps up as the future leader, but this defense needs more guys who serve roles like Romo and Webster used to for us. In particular, we need front seven leadership in a big way.


Our next defensive leaders may currently be on the injured list with Doom and Ayers. As long as Champ is with the Broncos he will be considered a defensive leader.

ColoradoDarin
11-26-2010, 06:00 AM
I agee with just about everything the OP posted. Still on the fence about Tebow. Do we start him next year or let him sit more. Guess it depends on how he's really developing and none of us have that kind of inside info.

Do we leverage our high draft position to trade down to get more picks next year?

I don't think we'll be able to trade down if we're in the top 10, last year the Jags at 10 were trying to move down and couldn't. We moved down but had to give up value to do so. Unless there is a QB on the board when we pick, I just don't see us moving down.

ColoradoDarin
11-26-2010, 06:05 AM
Well then I would wait until after next season to franchise and trade him.

I just don't think that 1 season is enough to be sure that Tebow will give us an equal or better chance to win than Orton. If the coaching staff thinks that Tebow has developed enough to truly take over then I guess they should go for it, but I don't think we should trade Orton just to see if Tebow can play on Sundays.

Not saying we'd go to him, but we are developing Brady Quinn as well. Maybe he ends up as just a backup for the rest of his career, or maybe with a year of McD coaching he turns it on and gives us a good option for a couple of years to further develop Tebow?

NYBronco
11-26-2010, 06:20 AM
Not saying we'd go to him, but we are developing Brady Quinn as well. Maybe he ends up as just a backup for the rest of his career, or maybe with a year of McD coaching he turns it on and gives us a good option for a couple of years to further develop Tebow?

I haven't given up on Quinn either and he may develop into a decent QB under McD. Only one can play at one time and currently Orton is doing well with all things considered but see Tebow as our future at QB.

fontaine
11-26-2010, 06:31 AM
"Let's blow up what Josh has done to date, hit the reset button and rebuild, but let's keep Josh."

This is pretty much the way I saw it too.

Build a real DL, improve the STs, and get some consistency from the OL.

At this point the only reason I still keep Josh here is that I want him to continue to improve the passing offense and work with Tebow.

In other words we've got a glorified offensive coordinator posing as the Head Coach.

ColoradoDarin
11-26-2010, 07:27 AM
This is pretty much the way I saw it too.

Build a real DL, improve the STs, and get some consistency from the OL.

At this point the only reason I still keep Josh here is that I want him to continue to improve the passing offense and work with Tebow.

In other words we've got a glorified offensive coordinator posing as the Head Coach.

Wait, how was that different than the previous 14 years?

jhns
11-26-2010, 07:27 AM
C'mon dude, you can't argue with the brilliance of firing slightly sub-.500 coach 1.5 years into his tenure... so we can hire a slightly sub-.500 coach who's had 5 seasons to show anything and hasn't been able to do so.

Wow, you guys really just don't pay attention to the sport you talk about all day, do you? This is such a dumb post.

It is pretty easy to see that almost every great coach wasn't good until they hit their second or third team. Your logic is terrible.

Also, anyone that actually follows this team knows why Smith isn't a coach yet. He explains it all the time.

fontaine
11-26-2010, 07:59 AM
Wait, how was that different than the previous 14 years?

The only difference was that we were actually balanced on offense and stayed competitive even with a sub par defense thanks to a good to great ground game.

But apart from that, yeah, McDaniels has sucked as much as Shanahan in bringing together a solid defense apart from his SuperBowl years.

zdoor
11-26-2010, 08:22 AM
"Let's blow up what Josh has done to date, hit the reset button and rebuild, but let's keep Josh."

Don't like the Kubiak idea much but this is pretty much my thoughts too. You could have put this list in 2 seasons ago when McD took over and it would have been virtually identical. Whether you liked the structure of the team as it was or not the smarter move was to leave what was working for last and build the weakest parts. Instead we've invested the last 2 years rebuilding the only bright spots we had and now the out come is debatable all the way around and the weaknesses are at least as glaring if not more so.

Since all we can do is bitch and moan for the most part, if McDaniels stays we need someone to oversee him that has more power. If he goes, I could give a **** really...

I really don't get the allegiance to the guy beyond he is a Bronco. This is the worst I have seen the Bronco's in my lifetime... I understand the prospect of rebuilding with a new coach also sucks but that's pretty much where we are now anyways... This list is kinda depressing actually...

zdoor
11-26-2010, 08:23 AM
Donta Hightower would be perfect for the ILB spot imo. He plays it in the 3-4 at Bama and was arguably their best LB last year (yes, McClain included) before he got hurt.

If David Harris hits the free agent market we should jump on him with both feet...

jhns
11-26-2010, 08:30 AM
Wait, how was that different than the previous 14 years?

You do a good job at throwing Bronco greats under the bus when you get offended at comments about a guy that had never done a thing for this organization....

Shanahan also built those teams. Just look for yourself. He brought in the majority of the starters and most of the key pieces to that team. "But he had a bad last 3 seasons!" Well, that must mean he was just horrible!

colonelbeef
11-26-2010, 08:51 AM
Wait, how was that different than the previous 14 years?

STOP comparing a HOF Head Coach with multiple super bowl wins on his resume to Josh McDaniels.

How stupid can you be? Your lack of knowledge is embarrassing

colonelbeef
11-26-2010, 08:54 AM
The only difference was that we were actually balanced on offense and stayed competitive even with a sub par defense thanks to a good to great ground game.

But apart from that, yeah, McDaniels has sucked as much as Shanahan in bringing together a solid defense apart from his SuperBowl years.

The defense was fine, particularly in 2005, until Al Wilson's career prematurely ended.

broncogary
11-26-2010, 08:54 AM
Wait, how was that different than the previous 14 years?

You know you've said something pretty smart when jhns and colonelbeef disagree with you. :strong:

ColoradoDarin
11-26-2010, 09:03 AM
You know you've said something pretty smart when jhns and colonelbeef disagree with you. :strong:

They did? I wouldn't know....


This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list.

This message is hidden because colonelbeef is on your ignore list.

And I don't care. ROFL!

jhns
11-26-2010, 09:14 AM
You know you've said something pretty smart when jhns and colonelbeef disagree with you. :strong:

Says the Denver McDaniels fans.

Some of us are Denver Bronco fans. You guys keep at it though. Maybe next you can tell us how Orton is the greatest ever and Elway was really ****.

Man I can't wait for McDaniels to go. All of his fans will follow and the Broncos will have a good fan base again. One that respects its history and the people that made that history. Life will be much better.

colonelbeef
11-26-2010, 09:49 AM
They did? I wouldn't know....


This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list.

This message is hidden because colonelbeef is on your ignore list.

And I don't care. ROFL!

Being a pussy is one thing, admitting as such is even more embarrassing.

broncogary
11-26-2010, 09:50 AM
Being a p***Y is one thing, admitting as such is even more embarrassing.

How would you know? ROFL!

Inkana7
11-26-2010, 09:56 AM
The defense was fine, particularly in 2005, until Al Wilson's career prematurely ended.

41-10
49-24
34-17

Not so much.

Popps
11-26-2010, 09:57 AM
I don't think we'll be able to trade down if we're in the top 10, last year the Jags at 10 were trying to move down and couldn't. We moved down but had to give up value to do so. Unless there is a QB on the board when we pick, I just don't see us moving down.

10-20 range is always nice value. I'm hoping we win a few more games, not just for the obvious reasons... but I'd prefer we drafted lower then 10'ish, really. I love the idea of being able to get a guy like Ayers without breaking the bank. (Or Ed Reeeeeeed!)

Lots of talent left in the mid-lower first, and at a nice price.

broncosteven
11-26-2010, 10:00 AM
Where is the lure Dave Toub away from Chicago with a wheelbarrow full of cash option?

We also need an NFL experienced DC who knows how to coach the 3-4 at the NFL level.

I do like the idea of essentially replacing all of Josh's inexperienced Ohio HS all star positional coaches but keeping Josh as HC for another year. If he had someone to speak up in meetings or bounce things off the learning curve could have a couple years cut off it.

DBroncos4life
11-26-2010, 10:16 AM
10-20 range is always nice value. I'm hoping we win a few more games, not just for the obvious reasons... but I'd prefer we drafted lower then 10'ish, really. I love the idea of being able to get a guy like Ayers without breaking the bank. (Or Ed Reeeeeeed!)

Lots of talent left in the mid-lower first, and at a nice price.

Who cares what they cost we need ellite talent on this team popps. More often then not that cost money.

Popps
11-26-2010, 10:18 AM
Who cares what they cost we need ellite talent on this team popps. More often then not that cost money.

That shouldn't have to be said.

The point is, in the draft, aka "The Crap-Shoot," you can get equal value in the middle of the round, pay less and acquire extra picks in the process... while leaving room in the budget to sign established players in free agency.

Top 10 picks require massive salaries and massive risk.

DBroncos4life
11-26-2010, 10:21 AM
That shouldn't have to be said.

The point is, in the draft, aka "The Crap-Shoot," you can get equal value in the middle of the round, pay less and acquire extra picks in the process... while leaving room in the budget to sign established players in free agency.

Top 10 picks require massive salaries and massive risk.
Lol whatever.

Popps
11-26-2010, 10:21 AM
I haven't given up on Quinn either and he may develop into a decent QB under McD. Only one can play at one time and currently Orton is doing well with all things considered but see Tebow as our future at QB.

McD talks about Tebow's development in yesterday's press conference, as well as some of the other younger guys. It's a pretty good conference. (Thanksgiving.)

Popps
11-26-2010, 10:21 AM
Lol whatever.

O.K. kid. Maybe you can move on to do your nanny-boo-boo routine on another thread. Adults are having a discussion.

M'kay?

Popps
11-26-2010, 10:25 AM
I remember a while ago you saying we were "60% of where we need to be." now this **** is the 40% left? That looks like almost a complete revamp of the team.

I'd still say we're 60%.

How is adding talent at a few positions and looking into position coaching "a complete revamp?"

You're supposed to be smarter than that, dude.

Reference the "now and then" thread if you want my (and others') opinion on the departmental state of the team right now.

But, we're not remotely talking about a "complete revamp." I'm not sure how you dreamed that up from my post.

misturanderson
11-26-2010, 10:26 AM
10-20 range is always nice value. I'm hoping we win a few more games, not just for the obvious reasons... but I'd prefer we drafted lower then 10'ish, really. I love the idea of being able to get a guy like Ayers without breaking the bank. (Or Ed Reeeeeeed!)

Lots of talent left in the mid-lower first, and at a nice price.
But then you miss out on D-line talent like Suh, Mario Williams, Peppers or Ngata most of the time. Especially in recent years when everybody seems to have figured out that a premium should be placed on really good D-line players (except the Broncos apparently).

It really has to depend on who comes out from the Junior class. From what I hear this should be a good draft to address our needs on the D-line, so hopefully that comes to fruition.

I would agree that it is better to not have to take on the high 1st rounder contracts except that I don't think that those contracts will be as prohibitive as they used to be. If there is no agreement on the CBA, nobody will be able to sign their picks anyway and when there is a new CBA, there will almost certainly be a new rookie pay scale that doesn't have #1 overall picks getting paid more than league MVPs. It will probably also make trading down from the top 10 much easier.

That's not to say that I want a top 10 pick, just that if we earn it with bad play it could be extremely helpful.

DBroncos4life
11-26-2010, 10:29 AM
O.K. kid. Maybe you can move on to do your nanny-boo-boo routine on another thread. Adults are having a discussion.

M'kay?

Ha ha, why would I want to wast time discussining this with you? You keep wanting to keep build cheap teams with mid round talent. Crap shoot or not we pay people to scout players let them do their jobs lol.

Popps
11-26-2010, 10:37 AM
But then you miss out on D-line talent like Suh, Mario Williams, Peppers or Ngata most of the time. Especially in recent years when everybody seems to have figured out that a premium should be placed on really good D-line players (except the Broncos apparently).


Very true... though the trade off for a pick like that might be losing out from here, and who wants that to happen?


Ngata was taken 12th, by the way. If you look at the Steelers starting 3 DL, none was drafted in the top 10.

Hampton - 19th (1st)
Keisel - (7th round)
Z. Hood - 31st overall (1st round.)

So, some of the better defenses in the league are doing very good business in the middle and late first round. (And later.)

Don't misunderstand me... I'm not going to advocate a trade down in ALL cases. Of course not. I just like the middle of the first for the flexibility and value it gives you. Some stud player is always going to drop there, or you can sneak down a bit and use extra picks to build more depth.

Popps
11-26-2010, 10:40 AM
Ha ha, why would I want to wast time discussining this with you? You keep wanting to keep build cheap teams with mid round talent. Crap shoot or not we pay people to scout players let them do their jobs lol.

Hey, I think if you type lol one more time... your argument will make sense.

Try it!

I haven't remotely said I like "cheap teams" nor have I said I like "mid round talent" only.

You're building a straw-man, because you've got an unhealthy obsession.

I simply said I had a personal preference for mid-first round picks due to a few value-related factors. You keep making a mountain out of a mole-hill, though. Keep that obsession fed, kid.

In fact, you're on ignore until you can grow up and talk with the big boys and girls. There's some good discussion going on here and we don't need it littered up.

Later.

wolf754life
11-26-2010, 10:43 AM
Rofl!

ColoradoDarin
11-26-2010, 10:50 AM
But then you miss out on D-line talent like Suh, Mario Williams, Peppers or Ngata most of the time. Especially in recent years when everybody seems to have figured out that a premium should be placed on really good D-line players (except the Broncos apparently).

It really has to depend on who comes out from the Junior class. From what I hear this should be a good draft to address our needs on the D-line, so hopefully that comes to fruition.

I would agree that it is better to not have to take on the high 1st rounder contracts except that I don't think that those contracts will be as prohibitive as they used to be. If there is no agreement on the CBA, nobody will be able to sign their picks anyway and when there is a new CBA, there will almost certainly be a new rookie pay scale that doesn't have #1 overall picks getting paid more than league MVPs. It will probably also make trading down from the top 10 much easier.

That's not to say that I want a top 10 pick, just that if we earn it with bad play it could be extremely helpful.

As much as people complain about Eddddd Reeeeeeeeeed, the Ngata pick pisses me off more. We were coming off that AFCCG and needed DL (seems we say that pretty much the last 15 years or so), so instead of taking Ngata at 11 just ahead of the Ravens, we draft Cutler. Man what a difference that would have been.

DBroncos4life
11-26-2010, 10:51 AM
Hey, I think if you type lol one more time... your argument will make sense.

Try it!

I haven't remotely said I like "cheap teams" nor have I said I like "mid round talent" only.

You're building a straw-man, because you've got an unhealthy obsession.

I simply said I had a personal preference for mid-first round picks due to a few value-related factors. You keep making a mountain out of a mole-hill, though. Keep that obsession fed, kid.

In fact, you're on ignore until you can grow up and talk with the big boys and girls. There's some good discussion going on here and we don't need it littered up.

Later.
Oh no! All I'm saying is if we are not going to play well and win we might as well get a good draft pick out of it! Its pretty easy to follow. You keep talking about keeping the cost of the pick down like its coming out of your pocket. I just want super star talent period I don't care what pat has to pay for it.

Popps
11-26-2010, 10:55 AM
As much as people complain about Eddddd Reeeeeeeeeed, the Ngata pick pisses me off more. We were coming off that AFCCG and needed DL (seems we say that pretty much the last 15 years or so), so instead of taking Ngata at 11 just ahead of the Ravens, we draft Cutler. Man what a difference that would have been.

That's always going to happen in a draft, but agree... that was particularly painful in hindsight.

Teams like Balt and Pitt have been savvy at getting these guys without using top 10 picks. Hopefully our scouting dept. can follow suit over time.

misturanderson
11-26-2010, 10:58 AM
Very true... though the trade off for a pick like that might be losing out from here, and who wants that to happen?


Ngata was taken 12th, by the way. If you look at the Steelers starting 3 DL, none was drafted in the top 10.

Hampton - 19th (1st)
Keisel - (7th round)
Z. Hood - 31st overall (1st round.)

So, some of the better defenses in the league are doing very good business in the middle and late first round. (And later.)

Don't misunderstand me... I'm not going to advocate a trade down in ALL cases. Of course not. I just like the middle of the first for the flexibility and value it gives you. Some stud player is always going to drop there, or you can sneak down a bit and use extra picks to build more depth.

The only reason that I brought up Ngata is that he would have gone top 10 if he were available in any draft since 2006. Teams have started placing that premium on DL and especially elite DTs in the past 3-4 years, much moreso than in the past. Raji was nowhere near as good a player as Ngata and he went top 10. I suppose that this could be another draft where there are enough Top 15 QBs that come out to push those elite linemen down a couple spots, but I don't think that many teams will be passing them up like they used to.

That being said, I want us to win out if we can (unlikely) and I think there should be some D-line that is worth our draft spot in both the 1st and 2nd rounds regardless of how the season ends. I hope that we either take that opportunity or trade down to a better slot and take D-line there.

I do, however, think that our ILB position, while it could use some depth, is not something we should be focusing on until our 2nd 2nd rounder at the absolute earliest and I see S, CB, OL depth and probably even OLB as bigger needs on this team. If we want to trade DJ for a 2nd then I would be all for it, but I think he's doing about as well as he can, given the line in front of him, and I doubt that we would find a significantly better replacement without spending a 1st rounder or high 2nd rounder that I personally believe could be better utilized on the line or at safety.

Popps
11-26-2010, 11:02 AM
I do however think that our ILB position, while it could use some depth, is not something we should be focusing on until our 2nd 2nd rounder at the absolute earliest and I see S, CB, OL depth and probably even OLB as bigger needs on this team.

I've heard that this isn't a deep draft at ILB, though I haven't really done much revision yet. So, I'm fine grabbing help in the 2nd if that means we can use our first on the DL. I just feel like neither of our starters on the inside are true 3-4 starting ILBs.

S is definitely a need, though I wonder if we might be able to use FA for that particular need.

zdoor
11-26-2010, 11:10 AM
That's always going to happen in a draft, but agree... that was particularly painful in hindsight.

Teams like Balt and Pitt have been savvy at getting these guys without using top 10 picks. Hopefully our scouting dept. can follow suit over time.

I think our best case scenario would be a top 5 pick we could trade to a 10 or so while acquiring another 1 or high 2... Only thing that would change that for me would be a rookie wage slotting system... If that happens, it would be a lot more tempting to stay in the higher spot...

DBroncos4life
11-26-2010, 11:18 AM
The only reason that I brought up Ngata is that he would have gone top 10 if he were available in any draft since 2006. Teams have started placing that premium on DL and especially elite DTs in the past 3-4 years, much moreso than in the past. Raji was nowhere near as good a player as Ngata and he went top 10. I suppose that this could be another draft where there are enough Top 15 QBs that come out to push those elite linemen down a couple spots, but I don't think that many teams will be passing them up like they used to.

That being said, I want us to win out if we can (unlikely) and I think there should be some D-line that is worth our draft spot in both the 1st and 2nd rounds regardless of how the season ends. I hope that we either take that opportunity or trade down to a better slot and take D-line there.

I do, however, think that our ILB position, while it could use some depth, is not something we should be focusing on until our 2nd 2nd rounder at the absolute earliest and I see S, CB, OL depth and probably even OLB as bigger needs on this team. If we want to trade DJ for a 2nd then I would be all for it, but I think he's doing about as well as he can, given the line in front of him, and I doubt that we would find a significantly better replacement without spending a 1st rounder or high 2nd rounder that I personally believe could be better utilized on the line or at safety.

With no cba in place we run the risk of having little juniors in this draft. If they don't come out the talent in this draft becomes weaker. Our best bet is to be somewhere in the top ten of this draft to walk out with a impact player on the dline.

Popps
11-26-2010, 11:18 AM
I think our best case scenario would be a top 5 pick we could trade to a 10 or so while acquiring another 1 or high 2... Only thing that would change that for me would be a rookie wage slotting system... If that happens, it would be a lot more tempting to stay in the higher spot...

True, and that's one of the big sticking points with this labor thing, right?

Will be interesting to see. I'd hate to see us draft at #5, because it would mean we really didn't make any progress the rest of this season.

But, it certainly would give us the chance to add a premiere player.

I suppose the only "fortunate" thing about having 7 losses already is... even if we win out, we'll have a nice draft pick in the first round.

misturanderson
11-26-2010, 11:25 AM
I've heard that this isn't a deep draft at ILB, though I haven't really done much revision yet. So, I'm fine grabbing help in the 2nd if that means we can use our first on the DL. I just feel like neither of our starters on the inside are true 3-4 starting ILBs.

S is definitely a need, though I wonder if we might be able to use FA for that particular need.

I think Mays is the type of 2-down run-stopper you want at SILB, he's not elite and could certainly be upgraded, but that isn't a position that needs elite talent.

As far as DJ is concerned, I really think he is one of the better WILBs in the league. He has good range and typically covers relatively well for a LB. He isn't on the level of David Harris or Ray Lewis, but he isn't messing up constantly this year and seems to be making a decent number of plays. He also hasn't had the kind of line those guys have in front of them, ever.

Our safeties are so old and absolutely atrocious in coverage and our D line is so easy to push around that I just couldn't justify picking an ILB before spending 2 picks on DL and one on safety if I were in charge. I would do it if there is a wide talent margin where we pick and an ILB is clearly BPA, but I see how the Steelers and Ravens (even the Colts to some extent though Sanders is hurt more than he's not) defenses drop off when their elite safeties are injured and it makes me realize how much of a difference a great safety can make for a team. When you have that guy that always seems to be able to get into a position to make a big play, it creates so much momentum that it's just an incredible thing to watch.

The only truly good safeties we've had in the last decade were Lynch and Dawkins and both of them were past their prime when they got here. I would love to have that elite guy that can both cover and make the big hit. And with that I'll end my off-topic rant about how much I love great safeties and how irritating it is that we seem to have as much disdain for filling that position with great players as we do with the defensive line.

Bronco Yoda
11-26-2010, 12:36 PM
In other words we've got a glorified offensive coordinator posing as the Head Coach.

Bowlen needs to flip the script on this ****.

Bronco Yoda
11-26-2010, 12:38 PM
We also need an NFL experienced DC who knows how to coach the 3-4 at the NFL level.

I doubt we'll get any viable takers until Bowlen Hires a stronger GM with more control over Josh.

WolfpackGuy
11-26-2010, 12:49 PM
With so many teams running the 3-4, doesn't it essentially lose it's novelty?

misturanderson
11-26-2010, 01:06 PM
With so many teams running the 3-4, doesn't it essentially lose it's novelty?

Not when a lot of teams that run those defenses are pretty consistently near the top of the league in defense. jets, ravens, steelers, chargers, dolphins, 49ers, packers. The top half of the league's defenses are pretty evenly split between 4-3 and 3-4.

I don't really think there is much of an advantage one way or the other except that it seems like more and more defensive pass rushers fit a 3-4 much better coming out of college than the 4-3.

gyldenlove
11-26-2010, 01:22 PM
I think Mays is the type of 2-down run-stopper you want at SILB, he's not elite and could certainly be upgraded, but that isn't a position that needs elite talent.

As far as DJ is concerned, I really think he is one of the better WILBs in the league. He has good range and typically covers relatively well for a LB. He isn't on the level of David Harris or Ray Lewis, but he isn't messing up constantly this year and seems to be making a decent number of plays. He also hasn't had the kind of line those guys have in front of them, ever.

Our safeties are so old and absolutely atrocious in coverage and our D line is so easy to push around that I just couldn't justify picking an ILB before spending 2 picks on DL and one on safety if I were in charge. I would do it if there is a wide talent margin where we pick and an ILB is clearly BPA, but I see how the Steelers and Ravens (even the Colts to some extent though Sanders is hurt more than he's not) defenses drop off when their elite safeties are injured and it makes me realize how much of a difference a great safety can make for a team. When you have that guy that always seems to be able to get into a position to make a big play, it creates so much momentum that it's just an incredible thing to watch.

The only truly good safeties we've had in the last decade were Lynch and Dawkins and both of them were past their prime when they got here. I would love to have that elite guy that can both cover and make the big hit. And with that I'll end my off-topic rant about how much I love great safeties and how irritating it is that we seem to have as much disdain for filling that position with great players as we do with the defensive line.

Mays is too one-sided to be truly effective in the 3-4, the best way to counter him is to run the RB in the flat and the TE down the seam a lot from base formation, that way you are going to get Mays 1 on 1 with a player who is a lot more athletic than him and we have seen he really struggles in coverage. On any play that is not a run up the middle or behind the tackle he is essentially a non-factor, which is okay if your safeties can make up for the lack of coverage, but with average safeties you are going to get burned in the middle and the short flat because you have a player who can't cover.

If Mays was a smarter player who could read and predict the play to make up for his athletic short comings he would work out better, but sadly that doesn't seem to the case.

Right now, the defensive line, safety and ILB have to priorities. We especially need a centerfielder who can actually play the pass, Hill is way too passive back there and rarely gets within 10 yards of the ball at the time of the catch, even on passes of 15 yards or more.

DBroncos4life
11-26-2010, 02:38 PM
With so many teams running the 3-4, doesn't it essentially lose it's novelty?

Yes and as it stands now there really only one top ten 3-4 de in the draft. Right now he is a projected top five player too.

NFLBRONCO
11-26-2010, 02:44 PM
Yes and as it stands now there really only one top ten 3-4 de in the draft. Right now he is a projected top five player too.

Is he a SR or JR? If he stays in college it will be none.

Requiem
11-26-2010, 03:00 PM
Yes and as it stands now there really only one top ten 3-4 de in the draft. Right now he is a projected top five player too.

This isn't really true at all.

I'm guessing you are referring to Dareus, if he comes out.

Bowers is right behind him too, if he decides to come out.

Then you have Adrian Clayborn, who is a top fifteen pick easily and can play in either a 3-4 or 4-3 on the front. If we are picking anywhere near #10 (~ a few spots) he is worth the selection.

Allen Bailey has put it together this year, he is a first-round talent.

Cameron Jordan is a first-round talent as well.

Cameron Heyward as well, who was looking like a top ten prospect, but this year hasn't been nearly as impressive, he is worth a first-round look for us if he is there.

If I was going for prospects, I would grade them out in this order:
Dareus, Bowers, Clayborn, Jordan, Bailey, Heyward.

The first three are worth our top selection.

Jordan, Bailey and Heyward would in my eyes, require a move down.

Some even consider Fairley to be up there as well.

If the first three are gone, you take the BPA at a position of need.

That is why getting Peterson or Amukamara (especially if Bailey leaves) wouldn't be idea either. Peterson can play CB or S -- and Amukamara is a blue-chipper at CB.

Denver has options all over, especially on the DL. With the needs of the other teams likely picking ahead of us, there is a good chance we will have our shot at one of the guys we really like -- and I'm hoping some of those dudes are it.

DBroncos4life
11-26-2010, 03:13 PM
This isn't really true at all.

I'm guessing you are referring to Dareus, if he comes out.

Bowers is right behind him too, if he decides to come out.

Then you have Adrian Clayborn, who is a top fifteen pick easily and can play in either a 3-4 or 4-3 on the front. If we are picking anywhere near #10 (~ a few spots) he is worth the selection.

Allen Bailey has put it together this year, he is a first-round talent.

Cameron Jordan is a first-round talent as well.

Cameron Heyward as well, who was looking like a top ten prospect, but this year hasn't been nearly as impressive, he is worth a first-round look for us if he is there.

If I was going for prospects, I would grade them out in this order:
Dareus, Bowers, Clayborn, Jordan, Bailey, Heyward.

The first three are worth our top selection.

Jordan, Bailey and Heyward would in my eyes, require a move down.

Some even consider Fairley to be up there as well.

If the first three are gone, you take the BPA at a position of need.

That is why getting Peterson or Amukamara (especially if Bailey leaves) wouldn't be idea either. Peterson can play CB or S -- and Amukamara is a blue-chipper at CB.

Denver has options all over, especially on the DL. With the needs of the other teams likely picking ahead of us, there is a good chance we will have our shot at one of the guys we really like -- and I'm hoping some of those dudes are it.

I'm not saying there isn't first round talent along the dline. There isn't that many top ten players without the juniors coming out. Now if there is a cba things will be different and we all know that. As for amukamara I love the idea even if bailey stays.

NYBronco
11-26-2010, 03:49 PM
McD talks about Tebow's development in yesterday's press conference, as well as some of the other younger guys. It's a pretty good conference. (Thanksgiving.)

Thanks for the heads up. I just finished listening to the press conference and liked what I heard. I was also impressed with how relaxed McD is during the conference.

broncosteven
11-26-2010, 04:27 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I just finished listening to the press conference and liked what I heard. I was also impressed with how relaxed McD is during the conference.

Most of mCd's pressers have been entertaining and filled with tidbits that explain alot about the current state of the team. Too bad the games are usually not as entertaining.

Popps
11-26-2010, 04:37 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I just finished listening to the press conference and liked what I heard. I was also impressed with how relaxed McD is during the conference.

Pretty good one. He praised Decker, too.

Well, I can't totally agree that he looks relaxed. But, maybe MORE relaxed than he used to. It looks like that's not his favorite part of his job.

That said, Kaylore pointed this out... he does actually say something at these conferences. They're usually worth a listen.

Popps
11-26-2010, 04:41 PM
Most of mCd's pressers have been entertaining and filled with tidbits that explain alot about the current state of the team. Too bad the games are usually not as entertaining.

True enough... but when you listen to him and watch him coach. Do you get the idea that he's going to be a success? Current results aside, because we all know things can take time. What do you see when you look at him, as a whole? Have you watched any of the mic'd up stuff from our practices?

I see a guy who would stop at nothing to win games. He reminds me of a young Shanahan and did from the get-go. He's a born coach, in my opinion.
But, he's only going to get so long to produce results. As I've stated before, I definitely have a cut-off point with my patience. I'm just more patient than most around here, I guess.

Curious what you see in him, as a whole... as fair as you can be, given your displeasure with what he's done...?

spdirty
11-26-2010, 09:31 PM
I'd still say we're 60%.

How is adding talent at a few positions and looking into position coaching "a complete revamp?"

You're supposed to be smarter than that, dude.

Reference the "now and then" thread if you want my (and others') opinion on the departmental state of the team right now.

But, we're not remotely talking about a "complete revamp." I'm not sure how you dreamed that up from my post.

Bull****. Your lil bullet point presentation, though I agree with what you said and I would add a few things to it, is extremely tough to accomplish.

Position coaches. The quality of our position coaches has taken a huge hit the last 2 years. When your 2 best position coaches leave after only 1 year with you, as well as your highly respected DC, your reputation around the league probably takes a hit, making it harder to hire new positon coaches, and nearly impossible to pick good ones off from other teams. Your pretty much left with those who don't currently have a job, as well as your brother. Maybe our coach can pry his dad away from his high school team in Ohio.

Hire Rod Smith. OK, agreed, not hard to do.

Add premier RT. Well, of course we know that great RTs just fall off of trees. I think the best bet is either sign a journeyman and hope Harris can stay healthy, or draft one later in the draft and hope to find a diamond in the rough. But that aint easy unless you invest a high draft pick in one.

Add premier DT/Seymour caliber DE. Yeah. Well. Have to invest another high draft pick and hope that the high draft pick isn't a bust. Its freaking hard to find a Seymour type DE.

Add a NT. Yes, absolutely this should be the number 1 priority of the offseason. However, great premier NTs that make the 3-4 work effectively are probably harder to find and develop than finding a premier quarterback. What I wouldn't give for a young Casey Hampton or Jamal Williams.

Revamp ILB. And you said possibly invest a #1 pick on 1. Well. OK, but I think we only get 1 #1 pick per year, unless we have any more Jay Cutlers to trade away.

Find the next defensive leader. Well, if you go FA your looking at either spending a ton of money, finding another Dawking or Lynch at the tail end of their career, (which also means you have to convince them you are on the brink of SB contention, and you only get a couple year out of em) or investing yet another high pick on one. Then you also have to be right.

Change to Orange jerseys. Yeah, OK agreed.

Hire John Elway. He is the duke, absolutely. I wish he owned the team in fact. He is the man, and I think he absolutely should get an offer.

Tebow. Yeah, agree.



While I agree with what you said, 6 of your 10 points are things we should have been doing before even McD got here. And this regime has done nothing to fill the holes in 5 of the 10 points other than bring in stopgap, past their prime FAs. I won't knock him for the RT need, but the 4 on defense you proposed are probably all going to take 1st round picks to accomplish. They have been needs for like ever, and its frustrating as hell seeing this coach pay basically no attention to these needs in the offseason which almost always results in late season defensive collapses.

We have to get younger on D, we need a lot more depth so we can absorb injuries, and we have to get more talented. With the state of our talent right now on D, I expect this to be a 3 year project and that is if everything goes right in picking draft picks and we find some diamonds in the rough.

This team is in shambles right now. It hasn't been this bad in 40 years. I'm sorry popps, I respect the fact that you want so badly for this coach to succeed, but going in a different direction is I think the only way this team starts heading in the right direction. Or, at the very very very least, hire a football guy GM with a great nose for drafting defensive talent. And give him total control over our drafting. But then we have to find that GM, which also isn't easy.

Killericon
11-26-2010, 10:01 PM
I say we sign David Harris or Paul Posluszny. Draft Defensive lineman in the first 2 rounds, and add a couple more DBs in free agency. Retain Champ, even if it means Franchising him.

I disagree that Harris isn't the answer. I think he can do it. Sign a guy like Faneca to come in if/when Beadles can't hold up the LG spot.

I have faith in this team, I really do. I don't think we have as many offensive issues as people around here think. I do think, however, that it starts and ends with the defensive line.

Popps
11-26-2010, 10:14 PM
I'm sorry popps, I respect the fact that you want so badly for this coach to succeed

I want all of our coaches to succeed.



but going in a different direction is I think the only way this team starts heading in the right direction. .

Could be, but he'll be given another year to try to implement more changes, and I think that's the logical approach. If we're floundering at the end of next season, of course Bowlen is going to make a move. But, if things start coming together, I expect ownership to let this play out. Again, they hired him for the long-term, not for a quick fix. Mostly because quick fixes rarely (if ever) exist.

Popps
11-26-2010, 10:16 PM
I say we sign David Harris or Paul Posluszny. Draft Defensive lineman in the first 2 rounds, and add a couple more DBs in free agency. Retain Champ, even if it means Franchising him.

I disagree that Harris isn't the answer. I think he can do it. Sign a guy like Faneca to come in if/when Beadles can't hold up the LG spot.

I have faith in this team, I really do. I don't think we have as many offensive issues as people around here think. I do think, however, that it starts and ends with the defensive line.

Agree, and we've seen this team put together streaks and big games. We've seen flashes of what this thing would look like if we could gain some consistency.

I'm with you. I don't think it's remotely the train-wreck people make it out to be. But, I understand the frustration and McD will have to show progress by next season or he'll be in trouble.

broncosteven
11-27-2010, 09:15 PM
True enough... but when you listen to him and watch him coach. Do you get the idea that he's going to be a success? Current results aside, because we all know things can take time. What do you see when you look at him, as a whole? Have you watched any of the mic'd up stuff from our practices?

I see a guy who would stop at nothing to win games. He reminds me of a young Shanahan and did from the get-go. He's a born coach, in my opinion.
But, he's only going to get so long to produce results. As I've stated before, I definitely have a cut-off point with my patience. I'm just more patient than most around here, I guess.

Curious what you see in him, as a whole... as fair as you can be, given your displeasure with what he's done...?

I had a 2nd Thanksgiving today so I will get back to you on this, tragicaly there appears to be even more drama coming out of Dove Valley that I need to catch up on.

spdirty
11-28-2010, 12:30 AM
i see a guy who would stop at nothing to win games.

Hilarious!

Taco John
11-28-2010, 12:40 AM
True enough... but when you listen to him and watch him coach. Do you get the idea that he's going to be a success? Current results aside, because we all know things can take time. What do you see when you look at him, as a whole? Have you watched any of the mic'd up stuff from our practices?

I see a guy who would stop at nothing to win games. He reminds me of a young Shanahan and did from the get-go. He's a born coach, in my opinion.
But, he's only going to get so long to produce results. As I've stated before, I definitely have a cut-off point with my patience. I'm just more patient than most around here, I guess.

Curious what you see in him, as a whole... as fair as you can be, given your displeasure with what he's done...?

I think in 5 years after he's had more experience, and broadens his contact base in the NFL, Josh could make a good head coach. Right now, I think he's in way over his head with too little experience and too few experienced coaches on his staff to be able to handle the gauntlet that is the NFL.

Miss I.
11-28-2010, 12:44 AM
I think in 5 years after he's had more experience, and broadens his contact base in the NFL, Josh could make a good head coach. Right now, I think he's in way over his head with too little experience and too few experienced coaches on his staff to be able to handle the gauntlet that is the NFL.

I agree with this actually. He's really good with our QBs, would love to see him keep working with them in a demoted position, but going to guess that isn't going to happen. oh well, someday he will grow up into a good head coach, just to bad he had to learn his painful life lessons with us.

So TJ, why don't you like Bill Cowher? Just curious

Taco John
11-28-2010, 12:44 AM
I don't think it's remotely the train-wreck people make it out to be.






I would hate to see what you think is actually a train wreck if this isn't it. Larry Coyer could have used your sudden supply of patience. He was a hundred times more successful than Josh, and you called for his head. When Josh fails, you fall all over yourself to tell us how proud you are of him...

Hard to fathom...

footstepsfrom#27
11-28-2010, 12:46 AM
http://www.coacheshotseat.com/UrbanMeyer.jpg

Popps
11-28-2010, 12:50 AM
When Josh fails, you fall all over yourself to tell us how proud you are of him...


Really?

Don't recall doing that. You'll have to provide a specific example.

I know you're not talking about my credit to a team effort early in the season against a tough opponent, the week one of our players died.
I know you're not referring to that, because only brain-dead trolls make inaccurate generalizations like that.

Taco, your history of utter embarrassment around here has been well-chronicled. For you to be questioning anyone is really pretty comical. You, the guy who berated and condescended to your own community for even suggesting Shanahan might be fired.... just days before he was.

You couldn't find your ass with both hands, kid. Work on yourself before you worry too much about other posters.

Taco John
11-28-2010, 01:01 AM
I agree with this actually. He's really good with our QBs, would love to see him keep working with them in a demoted position, but going to guess that isn't going to happen. oh well, someday he will grow up into a good head coach, just to bad he had to learn his painful life lessons with us.

So TJ, why don't you like Bill Cowher? Just curious


It's not that I don't like Bill Cowher. It's that I hate him. For my part, I don't understand how anyone who watched the Broncos in the 90's couldn't hate Bill Cowher. I want to punch my TV every time I see his stupid spitting face.

Taco John
11-28-2010, 01:10 AM
Really?

Don't recall doing that. You'll have to provide a specific example.

No I don't. You've made being proud of losing a meme here. This isn't a suprise to anyone.


I know you're not talking about my credit to a team effort early in the season against a tough opponent, the week one of our players died.
I know you're not referring to that, because only brain-dead trolls make inaccurate generalizations like that.

I don't even have to go that far back. Just 5 or 6 posts ago you were talking about how you don't think that this team - possibly the losingest team in franchise history - is that much of a train wreck.


Taco, your history of utter embarrassment around here has been well-chronicled. For you to be questioning anyone is really pretty comical. You, the guy who berated and condescended to your own community for even suggesting Shanahan might be fired.... just days before he was.

I was right about what would happen after Bowlen fired Shanahan. I was right about hiring a young inexperienced kid. For being such an embarassment, I sure nailed this situation while you constantly set the bar lower and lower and lower until you lost all credibility. First it was improvement from week to week. When that didn't happen it was improvement from year to year. That isn't panning out, and now it's "this isn't quite the train wreck that people are making this out to be."

My history of utter embarassment? I'm not embarassed. Things I said might not have been popular, but they were legitimate.


You couldn't find your ass with both hands, kid. Work on yourself before you worry too much about other posters.

The egg here is on your face, dude. You're the one who has turned themselves into a mockery. You railed for so long about how we needed defensive help up front and then went soft on the idea as Josh used draft picks to take offense and defensive secondary players that he'd later trade away. Work on myself... Pwah! Even at my lowest point (the Gutless Drunk thread) I was making a legitimate point that turned out to be prophetic.

Yeah, I may have taken Pat's word too seriously when he said Shanahan was his coach for life. Big deal. So what if I was suprised that he'd fire Shanahan after that season. That has nothing to do with the situation we're currently in - and it is a full blown train wreck.

Popps
11-28-2010, 01:26 AM
No I don't. You've made being proud of losing a meme here. This isn't a suprise to anyone.


You said Brian Griese was better than John Elway.

Defend that.


(See how effective just telling flat out lies can be? Fun!)



possibly the losingest team in franchise history - is that much of a train wreck.

11-15 across two seasons is bad by Broncos standards. This season has been injury-plagued and very rough for the fans.

But, from a global standpoint... I think this team has more talent and more going for it than the Falling Sky Community give it credit for.

Yes. I do see some positives going forward for this team. Sue me.

Does that mean I condone the bull**** that went down today? Of course not.

But, you seem to be resorting to using flat out lies to support your case.

Maybe you're getting worn out from having your ass kicked around the block on your "Hire a 5 year, sub-.500" thread.


Even at my lowest point (the Gutless Drunk thread) I was making a legitimate point that turned out to be prophetic.


Nah. You just showed your true colors. That's all.

You made a thread so disgraceful, the very mention of it got camp reporters kicked out of Broncos practices.

The point wasn't legitimate. It was pathetic.


Yeah, I may have taken Pat's word too seriously when he said Shanahan was his coach for life. Big deal. So what if I was suprised that he'd fire Shanahan after that season. That has nothing to do with the situation we're currently in - and it is a full blown train wreck.

You're talking about staying on topic, after you bring up a D-coord. from 2006?

The point involved your posting history, which has been historically ranging from off-base, to so embarrassing you had to apologize to the community for it.



I've simply expressed an opinion that says I have some optimism for this team. I haven't discarded the bad things that have happened. Certainly not today's events. I take a simple view that you don't hire a young coach, only to fire him 1.5 seasons into his tenure... because he's hovering below .500 as a coach. I was prepared from the get-go for this to be a rebuilding process.

If it fails, I'll root hardily for our next coach. You won't find me trolling about this **** after he's gone, like yourself.

In other words, I'll move on like an adult... root for the new coach and hope for the best.


So, again... when you're resorting to flat-out lies, it's time to take a break, Taco. You've got enough trouble keeping your own football posts in order. Don't worry about mine.

24champ
11-28-2010, 01:33 AM
Nice thread about actual ideas on how to improve the team.

Now....

(The "Solution" was taken already.)

Obviously, these are just some bullet points. You could go through positionally in much greater detail than I did.
These are some notes that, along with our impact players being healthy, could make a big difference.


Positional Coaches - It's too early to know who will be available, but we need to consider upgrades at a few spots, including OL.
Preferably a veteran positional coach and preferably one with power-blocking scheme experience.

Hire Rod Smith - He's been present, but someone explain why this guy isn't a WR coach, or some kind of offensive assistant.
He seems driven to do it, and we've got a slew of younger WR's who could use this guy's guidance. This simply makes too
much sense not to have done already. Imagine the impact this could have for Thomas.

Add premiere RT - Harris simply can't be counted on, and there's question as to whether he's really suited. Beadles and Walton look to be good enough to develop into quality starters, but we need top-flight book-ends. Go out and get the best possible option
via FA and lock up to long-term deal. (If Tebow starts at some point, this would be his blind side protector.)

Add Premiere DT - This could be a problem in FA, but the draft looks deeper. We need a Seymour-caliber 3/4 DE talent on that
line. Guys like Bannan are great in rotation, but we need an impact player there. I like the idea of trying to find value vets, but we simply have to improve this area and if that means spending $$, then so be it.

Add a NT - We can probably squeeze another season out of WIlliams if we use him carefully. But, we need a true NT to groom
behind him. This has to be addressed in the draft, as it's unlikely any are available in FA.

Note: There are a few intriguing options available via FA, but not a ton:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2011/fa/dl.html
(List may be outdated.)

Revamp the ILB positions:
I honestly don't think DJ is suited to play in a 3-4, much less inside. But, his DUI spoils the chance to trade him for any decent
value. So, we're probably going to have to live with him there. But, we absolutely have to obtain a true 3-4 ILB. A hammer-type
who can plug the run and hold his own in coverage. Haggan is a back-up caliber player. He's done fine as a fill-in, but the
guy is a rotational player. I wouldn't mind if ILB was our #1 pick this year, provided the fit is there.

Find our next defensive leader:
Dawkins is probably in his last season, unless he's willing to stick around in a back-up role and even then, I'm not sure that
makes sense. I absolutely love the guy... but we've got to be realistic. We need to fill the void of him leaving.
I'm not sure if this means that we bring in a free agent with his leadership skills, or a young guy like Doom or Ayers
steps up as the future leader, but this defense needs more guys who serve roles like Romo and Webster used to for us. In particular, we need front seven leadership in a big way.


Change to orange jerseys:
No matter who is coach, we're still rebuilding and will still likely have our struggles next season.
Throw the fans a bone... and bring some orange mojo back to Denver.

Hire John Elway: I believe TombstoneRJ came up with this, among other people probably. It's a great idea. He's
also been lurking around, and there's no reason not to have him assigned to some sort of upper management, personnel
role. Tombstone described using him as a go-between for coaches/Bowlen, etc. Excellent idea, and again... great
mojo and a good PR move. But, John is a bright guy. This wouldn't JUST be for PR. His experience could help the
franchise.

Expand Tebow's Role:
Orton is still our best every-down option and has shown the ability to be extremely effective when things are in place around him.
But, we drafted Tebow for his versatility, and we need to work him into the offense on a larger scale. These two players could
be very complimentary to each other and really give offenses problems. This should come naturally with his progression, but it
should really be a focus to open up the playbook for him. This is also going to add some fire to the offense, and potentially
ramp up the leadership-factor on that side of the ball.


Rod Smith- He was a great WR for the Broncos and would be great person to work with the young WRs we have. He has worked with Kenny Britt of the Titans in offseasons and helped Britt get ready prior to his draft. However, I don't think Rod Smith would take up coaching, since he seems too focused on his "business opportunities" and selling it to gullible people.

Positional coaches- I think it is a forgone conclusion that Priefer will be canned at the end of the year. I don't know who would be available to replace him, but that phase of the game needs to be fixed. As for the Defense, I would think Martindale stays one more year, just for the fact we need some consistency at the position. Should a change be had there, I would hope to see Pepper Johnson from New England to come over. He can be a great asset for our Defensive line as well. If he can be had, would like to bring Singletary onboard as the Linebackers coach. Would be great asset for Joe Mays, Dumervil etc. You alluded to leadership, and I think Singletary would be the best person to hire to find those type of guys and help them become the leaders we will need.


I have been a big proponent of getting John Elway into the Organization in some capacity. I would like to see him have Bowlen's ear, instead of Ellis on football operations. John Elway is a bright guy, and knows a thing or two about winning football. Joe Ellis, far as I can tell...does not. Ellis is a smart guy, on financial issues and is the big reason why the Broncos have been smart with their money. Now Elway likes McDaniels and sees what he is trying to do. So I don't think Elway would come in and ruffle feathers, but rather help McDaniels and the Broncos get back to winning football.

As for the Quarterback situation, I don't see Orton playing for this club next season. I think we're going to follow the Patriot model and collect some draft picks. Orton will be traded and nets us a high pick or picks. I know you don't like trading a proven QB for the unknown, but we need some new blood to step in and take the bull by the horns. Orton will finish out the season, as he should.

Cito Pelon
11-28-2010, 01:59 AM
I think Mays is the type of 2-down run-stopper you want at SILB, he's not elite and could certainly be upgraded, but that isn't a position that needs elite talent.

As far as DJ is concerned, I really think he is one of the better WILBs in the league. He has good range and typically covers relatively well for a LB. He isn't on the level of David Harris or Ray Lewis, but he isn't messing up constantly this year and seems to be making a decent number of plays. He also hasn't had the kind of line those guys have in front of them, ever.

Our safeties are so old and absolutely atrocious in coverage and our D line is so easy to push around that I just couldn't justify picking an ILB before spending 2 picks on DL and one on safety if I were in charge. I would do it if there is a wide talent margin where we pick and an ILB is clearly BPA, but I see how the Steelers and Ravens (even the Colts to some extent though Sanders is hurt more than he's not) defenses drop off when their elite safeties are injured and it makes me realize how much of a difference a great safety can make for a team. When you have that guy that always seems to be able to get into a position to make a big play, it creates so much momentum that it's just an incredible thing to watch.

The only truly good safeties we've had in the last decade were Lynch and Dawkins and both of them were past their prime when they got here. I would love to have that elite guy that can both cover and make the big hit. And with that I'll end my off-topic rant about how much I love great safeties and how irritating it is that we seem to have as much disdain for filling that position with great players as we do with the defensive line.

This team is always trying to draft to fill holes created by not filling holes in previous drafts, and not only at safety.

TomServo
11-28-2010, 03:56 AM
This team is always trying to draft to fill holes created by not filling holes in previous drafts, and not only at safety

like spending draft picks for wide recievers, tight ends. quartebacks. running backs.....Defense is an afterthought. when we need D help
o wait our coach knows what hes doing, dosnt he?
our D sucks but coach drafts a QB that wont see the field til 2012. and w/ the fans say "use him on the goal line" coach ridiucules the fan base, Tebow on the Goal Line? BS hahaha

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-28-2010, 04:37 AM
He reminds me of a young Shanahan and did from the get-go. He's a born coach, in my opinion.


Really!?!

Lets look at the faiders the year before Shannahan the year with Shannahan:
1987 w/o Shannahan: (17 Los Angeles Raiders 15 20.1 301) Ranked 17th in ave points per game
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STAT S&archive=true&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-n=1&season=1987&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1
1988 w/ Shannahan: (16 Los Angeles Raiders 16 20.3 325 ) Ranked 16th in ave points per game
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STAT S&archive=true&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-n=1&season=1988&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1
Now lets look at McDumbass:

2008 w/o Mcdumbass: (17 Denver Broncos 16 23.1 370) Ranked 17
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STAT S&archive=true&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=1&conference=null&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-n=1&season=2008&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1
2009 w Mcdumbass: (20 Denver Broncos 16 20.4 326) Ramked 20
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STAT S&archive=true&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-n=1&season=2009&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1

Don't believe me click the links. They come from www.nfl.com.

NYBronco
11-28-2010, 04:48 AM
like spending draft picks for wide recievers, tight ends. quartebacks. running backs.....Defense is an afterthought. when we need D help
o wait our coach knows what hes doing, dosnt he? our D sucks but coach drafts a QB that wont see the field til 2012. and w/ the fans say "use him on the goal line" coach ridiucules the fan base, Tebow on the Goal Line? BS hahaha

Yes, he knows how to build a system in which he has been exposed to and comfortable with. The offense is nearly completed and just needs some valuable player experience and consistency maybe a few more players/backups. With the experience and consistency will come more confidence and knowing where and what the others players around you are doing and where they should be.

The KC game is a good example of what this offense is capable of doing. I don't have a problem with Tebow and believe he will become a solid QB in McD's system, just look at Orton and his improved play. Its good to see him play at this point with Orton playing well.

The offense is young and full of potential talent. The defense is aging quickly and I hope the Broncos can get some key players to improve their performance. Like all teams in this league filling holes with the players and even coaches in each phase of the game is necessary.The draft for all its glory is the glaring obvious hole/need filler.

The coach is NOT ridiculing the fan base.

Ratboy
11-28-2010, 05:11 AM
"Let's blow up what Josh has done to date, hit the reset button and rebuild, but let's keep Josh."

This.

Ratboy
11-28-2010, 05:12 AM
I should make a thread called "The Inevitable."

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=1544&dateline=1290493805

broncosteven
11-28-2010, 08:20 PM
True enough... but when you listen to him and watch him coach. Do you get the idea that he's going to be a success? Current results aside, because we all know things can take time. What do you see when you look at him, as a whole? Have you watched any of the mic'd up stuff from our practices?

I see a guy who would stop at nothing to win games. He reminds me of a young Shanahan and did from the get-go. He's a born coach, in my opinion.
But, he's only going to get so long to produce results. As I've stated before, I definitely have a cut-off point with my patience. I'm just more patient than most around here, I guess.

Curious what you see in him, as a whole... as fair as you can be, given your displeasure with what he's done...?

I see a guy who gets too high when things are going good and too low when they aren't. A good leader is a steadying force who doesn't let his feelings affect his performace.

I think the team sees him stop his fist pumping when they are ahead and mope when they are down and they feel they can mope also at which point the flags start flying. I think if mCd were more level the penalties would drop and the disipline would be would flourish. This team emulates it's HC.

The few times he develops a good game plan and sticks with it they have had success but the games like today where the very successfull run game is abandoned for "Chuck it deep to Lloyd" either because he thought he was up enough and wanted to pass the ball around or KM wasn't getting enough yards. It seems that KM starts the game averaging 10 yards per pop but when he starts getting stuffed at the line or only gets 2-3 yards suddenly the passing game becomes the focus.

VS KFC he said he wanted the D to take away the edges and not let Charles get to the outside. He scripted the 1st drive and was able to get KFC out of their gameplan and they kept the pedal down but most games once guys start losing their confidence or the score gets close they fold.

I think not being able to motivate guys like Smith or not find a way to use a talent like Hillis while installing his system shows lack of patience. Great coaches use their talent to the best of the talents ablity. This is football, not NASA, give the guy the ball and let him do his best. One would think mCd being so close to the players in age would help him communicate and motivate but he came in showing no quarter and being a hard ass, some guys you can badger and dog-house and some guys just need a pat on the back like a puppy but no one likes the my way or highway approach he needs to learn who you can mind **** and who you can't.

I really think this guy would benifit from real NFL experienced OC and DC. Seriously John Elway had to suggest to him to script his plays and bam 3 games that start with TD drives. mCd just has not been around at this level to have seen enough to know when and how to attack and adjust, how not to be taken out of his own gameplan he has even mentioned this in an early season post-loss presser.

This is a guy who should go to one more team as an OC, learn the run game and watch how they handle their defense then I think he could be great at his next HC stop. I don't think he has enough experience to get much of anything out of this season. He didn't face adversity with the Pat's. How you motivate a 3-8 team who struggles more and more is tough for seasoned HC's let alone a 1st time HC.

TheReverend
11-28-2010, 08:26 PM
lol

MplsBronco
11-28-2010, 09:17 PM
Defense, defense, defense. More speed at the LB position, help along the interior line and get some goddamn real safeties in here again. I don't want any more retreads like Lynch and Dawkins. Get some young beast in here who can hit ppl and play the ball in the air. I can't remember the last time a safety has made a play in coverage. A once proud position for this team has become an afterthought.

Popps
11-28-2010, 09:22 PM
Defense, defense, defense. More speed at the LB position, help along the interior line and get some goddamn real safeties in here again. I don't want any more retreads like Lynch and Dawkins. Get some young beast in here who can hit ppl and play the ball in the air. I can't remember the last time a safety has made a play in coverage. A once proud position for this team has become an afterthought.

Yep... the defensive rebuilding plan continues this off-season.

We should have some nice picks, and the offense is fairly set. We'll go full-out defense this off-season. Hopefully that includes FA, as well.

MplsBronco
11-28-2010, 09:29 PM
And we have to stick it out with McD for at least one more year. I give his first draft a pass as he didn't have a ton of time to prepare and build his staff, etc. But i do like what I see out of last year's draft and am hopeful for another solid draft this offseason. We have to see this thru and give him a fair shake. I hate what I have seen this year but hated what I saw in Shanny's last game as well. Shanny and his drafting over the last decade are as responsible for the lack of talent/depth on this team as anything else. We have to rebuild thru the draft and stick with a philosophy for at least 3 years. Becoming a team that changes direction every 2 years is not the answer.