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Irish Stout
11-16-2010, 11:38 AM
This is a must read for the passionate fan:

http://blog.denverbroncos.com/jsaccomano/family-ties/

Family Ties
November 16th, 2010 - 12:18pm by jim_saccomano
http://files.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Images/10_Blogs/Sacco/101116_sacco_blog.jpg

Earlier this week I got a call from a big Broncos fan in New York, “Benny from New York,” as he describes himself.

Sounds like the descriptions given to callers on talk radio. Anyway, Benny is not a Giants or Jets fan, but rather has the Denver Broncos as his adopted favorite team. He calls now and then, and I always enjoy chatting.

This week he reminded me of one of the great truths in the sports world if you work for a team, or if you ARE a team.

“Only care about what the people who love you think,” Benny said.


And I could not agree more.

The Broncos are heading into San Diego coming off a big 49-29 win over the division rival Kansas City Chiefs, and it is no secret we are climbing out of a 2-6 hole that is disappointing to us and all our fans.

When you have a losing record it is pretty easy to gain critics among your own fans, the media, and fans nationwide.

But the single most important people there are the ones who use the terms “we” and “us” when talking about the Broncos. If you are not a “we” or “us” person, you do not mean as much to us as those who are, and you should not.

The biggest single question one ever has to ask oneself about anything in the world — a team, a belief, a relationship — is, “Are you in, or are you out?

If the answer is you’re not sure, you are out. If the answer is you are in sometimes, or depending on team success, you are out.

A friend of mine in local television often jokes that “we are with you, win or tie.” That is kind of amusing, always worth a chuckle, which we always share. But as to where they are in the Broncos family, the answer is those people are out. It is perfectly understandable that there are a great many fans who have their most vocal support when the team wins. That will never change, and it is the same in every city.

But the people who come in numbers well over 70,000 for every home game, they are in. The people who are passionate about everything Broncos, including what color jersey we wear, they are in.

Not to be overly harsh, but sometimes you just have to dismiss the rest of them. The fair weather fans will always come back when you win. The critic is by definition someone looking for something to criticize.

“They” are not “we.” The people who live and work in the building, in the locker room, and who are not visitors in our building and in our stadium, that is our family.

The season ticket holder who supports the team, and who has for years and even decades, is the trunk of the tree that is called fandom.

We are glad to have as many as want to join the bandwagon, always, but never lose sight of the fact that the collective “we” is the core of support.

The Broncos could not be prouder of that group, the team, the players, the coaches, and those fans who were already staking a claim when Broncos Country was still just a territory.

We are family.

Rabb
11-16-2010, 11:42 AM
Love it

http://www.memorylast.net/content/graphics/animated-gifs/popcorn.gif

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-16-2010, 11:47 AM
Complaints about Sacco calling out people for weak fanhood coming in 3... 2... 1...

Kaylore
11-16-2010, 11:47 AM
“Only care about what the people who love you think,”

Is Benny Yoda? Is there a comma missing? I do not understand this sentence.

Mogulseeker
11-16-2010, 11:48 AM
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I'm a Broncos fan, and have been since I knew who the Broncos really were.

I know I'm guilty of doing it sometimes, but I still think it's stupid referring to any team as "we".

Popps
11-16-2010, 11:53 AM
It's always "we."

Sometimes when they're ****ing up, I might slip and use "they," though. ;)


There was another great article about international fans a week or so back. Maybe DP?
Fun read, if you can dig it up.

Irish Stout
11-16-2010, 11:54 AM
Is Benny Yoda? Is there a comma missing? I do not understand this sentence.

He's from New York, thats why you can't understand it.

broncocalijohn
11-16-2010, 11:59 AM
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I'm a Broncos fan, and have been since I knew who the Broncos really were.

I know I'm guilty of doing it sometimes, but I still think it's stupid referring to any team as "we".

no it isnt because it separates the pretenders from the loyalist. It is We because we celebrate as much as the team does and it hurts when we lose. You wear your fandom on your sleeve and it is all out there for everyone to see. When you start with US and then change to "Them", we all know where you stand with your team. I use "We" and "Us" because it is a family and I am not putting the Broncos as orphans just like the Broncos are not doing the same to me. Some might think they are with ticket prices or the FO moves, but I am there even if the Broncos sometimes remind me of my crazy uncle.

Irish Stout
11-16-2010, 12:01 PM
I'm a Broncos fan, and have been since I knew who the Broncos really were.

I know I'm guilty of doing it sometimes, but I still think it's stupid referring to any team as "we".

It starts with the team. It grows through the fans. It affects the community, the city, the state, and Benny in New York with his poor grammar. Its a common purpose and desire that we all have out of life. Its a way for us to connect with eachother and share something at a pretty base level of human emotion. We can cheer together, we can cry together, and we can have the same reason for doing so. We can criticize one another and even insult eachother. From jhns to Jarvis Moss, we're all vested in the idea of the Denver Broncos. It is "we" even if you disagree.

footstepsfrom#27
11-16-2010, 12:01 PM
I think I understand what he's saying, but then again I'm listening to a guy who now has the title, "Vice President of Corporate Communications"...and that makes me a bit nervous. He used to be the PR guy...(I think it's the same job but a fancier title). He says the season ticket holders are the trunk of the tree...hmmmm...what about those season ticket holders who couldn't afford the shiny new stadium and got squeezed out so the Broncos could charge higher ticket prices? Are they still "family" even though they couldn't keep up?

My problem with this blog post is that it reads like a thinly veiled attempt at suggesting criticism removes you from being a true fan...and if that's what he's saying, he's wrong. Real fans are passionate about their team, and many of them have never seen a game in person. Real fans can also criticize their team, but they get pissed off when someone outside the family does the same thing, because this is how it works; I love my family and I can talk **** about them if I want to, but I better not catch YOU talking **** about them if you're not IN my family.

Simple really...

Jetmeck
11-16-2010, 12:03 PM
He's from New York, thats why you can't understand it.

Yeah, it's the accent......lol

footstepsfrom#27
11-16-2010, 12:08 PM
From jhns to Jarvis Moss, we're all vested in the idea of the Denver Broncos. It is "we" even if you disagree.
You think the modern player is invested in the "family" thing? Dream on...it's a business and it's about the all-mighty dollar, nothing more. Now I see we have a new litnus test...pronouns are the new badge of real fandom.

Seriously?

supermanhr9
11-16-2010, 12:09 PM
Ummmmm, I'm in. But Because I'm in that reserves me the right to B**** abotu the team correct?

Irish Stout
11-16-2010, 12:15 PM
I think I understand what he's saying, but then again I'm listening to a guy who now has the title, "Vice President of Corporate Communications"...and that makes me a bit nervous. He used to be the PR guy...(I think it's the same job but a fancier title). He says the season ticket holders are the trunk of the tree...hmmmm...what about those season ticket holders who couldn't afford the shiny new stadium and got squeezed out so the Broncos could charge higher ticket prices? Are they still "family" even though they couldn't keep up?

My problem with this blog post is that it reads like a thinly veiled attempt at suggesting criticism removes you from being a true fan...and if that's what he's saying, he's wrong. Real fans are passionate about their team, and many of them have never seen a game in person. Real fans can also criticize their team, but they get pissed off when someone outside the family does the same thing, because this is how it works; I love my family and I can talk **** about them if I want to, but I better not catch YOU talking **** about them if you're not IN my family.

Simple really...

I actually read it just the way you wrote at the end - if you're IN, then you're in and it doesn't matter what you say. If you're in sometimes and out others, then go f yourself. I read it as saying you can be critical as long as you say "we suck" and not "they suck" in a way that either keeps you in the loop or distances you from the team.

Personally I think it was an attempt to try and bridge the divisiveness in the Broncos world. Maybe I read WAY too much into it. I feel like its saying if you're in and you care and you don't like it, fine, you're still one of us and we're one of you. I don't know, just so much venemon between fans doesn't seem right and I thought this was an attempt to show us that if we care enough either way we're still Broncos together.

HAT
11-16-2010, 12:16 PM
I'm a Broncos fan, and have been since I knew who the Broncos really were.

I know I'm guilty of doing it sometimes, but I still think it's stupid referring to any team as "we".

This. Been a hardcore fan for over 25 years and will be until I die but will continue to refer to the team as The Broncos, or My Broncos....But not 'we'.

We won, we lost, we need to do this, we should sign so and so.....To me, that's a slap in the face to those who have actually earned the right to speak that way.

Irish Stout
11-16-2010, 12:20 PM
You think the modern player is invested in the "family" thing? Dream on...it's a business and it's about the all-mighty dollar, nothing more. Now I see we have a new litnus test...pronouns are the new badge of real fandom.

Seriously?

I do not necessarily think the modern player is invested in the "family" thing and I never said they were. I said that they were vested in the idea of the Denver Broncos. Which they have to be, even if its just for the money, they are somewhat vested in their employer. However, to have success the players have to buy in to the team, and I've heard plenty of players on successful teams in every sport refer to that successful team as family (though I agree thats not what most modern players think). The more the player buys in to the team, the coach, the idea of winning for themselves, their teamates, their fans, the more those around him will buy in, the more the fans will buy in to that player and that team... I do think its cyclical.

Irish Stout
11-16-2010, 12:21 PM
This. Been a hardcore fan for over 25 years and will be until I die but will continue to refer to the team as The Broncos, or My Broncos....But not 'we'.

We won, we lost, we need to do this, we should sign so and so.....To me, that's a slap in the face to those who have actually earned the right to speak that way.

Who has earned the right to speak that way then?

TheReverend
11-16-2010, 12:24 PM
Who has earned the right to speak that way then?

The people pouring their effort into the game day product from the FO to the players. Professionals working to provide fans with a fun escape and topics to discuss. Not hobbyists.

broncocalijohn
11-16-2010, 12:25 PM
Who has earned the right to speak that way then?

The guys that lost 59 to 14 to the Raiders and I described it as the Worst lost WE have had in regular season game. If I still say We after the "family" embarrassed us all, then I know I have the right to say WE in good times and bad. Say what you have to but two things I cant stand is calling them Donkeys and using We and Us only when we are winning.

footstepsfrom#27
11-16-2010, 12:31 PM
This. Been a hardcore fan for over 25 years and will be until I die but will continue to refer to the team as The Broncos, or My Broncos....But not 'we'.

We won, we lost, we need to do this, we should sign so and so.....To me, that's a slap in the face to those who have actually earned the right to speak that way.
How bout this...it doesn't make a bit of difference either way what pro-noun we employ and that's nothing more than how someone uses the English language. As you said...25 years speaks a lot louder than whether you say we or us or they or them...who give a damn? I've got 40 years of Bronco fandom under my belt, much of it during tough times and I'll call them whatever I damn well please...them, us, we, they...sometimes I'll cuss em out too, and if that means I'm not "in" according to a guy who gets paid by the team...so be it. I've supported them with my money and my emotions since I was 10 so I think I'm entitled to reference the team however I please as well as criticize them when they deserve it.

And sometimes they do...

HAT
11-16-2010, 12:32 PM
Who has earned the right to speak that way then?

People who's pay checks are signed by Pat Bowlen.

I totally agree that the collective fan base is a 'we' but "We won!" just sounds dumb to me as opposed to "Our Broncos won".

If your favorite movie wins an Oscar, would you say "we won"? I sure wouldn't. Even if I was total geek for that movie and saw it 20 times. That's reserved for the writers, actors, grips, set designers, etc....Hell even the company that catered the set.

Not trying to make a big deal out of it and generally don't mind when others refer to the team as 'we'....It's just not for me.

HAT
11-16-2010, 12:35 PM
How bout this...it doesn't make a bit of difference either way what pro-noun we employ and that's nothing more than how someone uses the English language. As you said...25 years speaks a lot louder than whether you say we or us or they or them...who give a damn? I've got 40 years of Bronco fandom under my belt, much of it during tough times and I'll call them whatever I damn well please...them, us, we, they...sometimes I'll cuss em out too, and if that means I'm not "in" according to a guy who gets paid by the team...so be it. I've supported them with my money and my emotions since I was 10 so I think I'm entitled to reference the team however I please as well as criticize them when they deserve it.

And sometimes they do...

Agree 100%. Well said. Personal preference. For me, that's The Broncos or My Broncos 99% of the time.

footstepsfrom#27
11-16-2010, 12:43 PM
I actually read it just the way you wrote at the end - if you're IN, then you're in and it doesn't matter what you say. If you're in sometimes and out others, then go f yourself. I read it as saying you can be critical as long as you say "we suck" and not "they suck" in a way that either keeps you in the loop or distances you from the team.

Personally I think it was an attempt to try and bridge the divisiveness in the Broncos world. Maybe I read WAY too much into it. I feel like its saying if you're in and you care and you don't like it, fine, you're still one of us and we're one of you. I don't know, just so much venemon between fans doesn't seem right and I thought this was an attempt to show us that if we care enough either way we're still Broncos together.
I get your point, but look at it like this. Sports is the only business where ownership thinks it has a right to EXPECT LOYALTY based purely on the fact that customers (fans) self-identify with a product placed in the market on an emotional level. When you boil it all down, it's a BUSINESS to the people at the top, no matter how they might like you to think otherwise.

When's the last time you heard someone passionate about anything they purchase to the point where they rise to the level of fans as opposed to customers? MY point is this; fans owe sports teams nothing more than they owe any other business that provides a product they consume, though they'd like you to think otherwise. WE pay the salaries of all these people because WE support them by purchasing in various forms their products...tickets, caps, T-shirts, jersies, etc...so when a guy who has drawn a paycheck for his services for decades from this corporation starts tellining me what pro-noun is acceptable to refer to his company...yeah I get a bit disgusted over that. How about remembering all the sell-outs Bronco fans have given this team over the years when they sucked ass? That goes further with me than guilt tripping someone over the way the refer to the team as we or them.

I promise you...if we/they find a new VP of Corporate Communications tomorrow, the family thing will die a swift death for JimSac...loyalty works as long as it's putting food on your table. I love the Broncos and I'm passionate about following them/us...I just don't care for someone telling me what that's supposed to look like or how I'm supposed to do that...since it's my business anyway.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-16-2010, 12:59 PM
This. Been a hardcore fan for over 25 years and will be until I die but will continue to refer to the team as The Broncos, or My Broncos....But not 'we'.

We won, we lost, we need to do this, we should sign so and so.....To me, that's a slap in the face to those who have actually earned the right to speak that way.

Meh, I disagree. Through the years I've spent money on tickets, season tickets, jerseys, jackets, fleeces, hats, socks, scarves, baby clothes, etc. The money I've spent has gone into the coffers of those who work for the team, so yes, I feel a part of their successes and failures.

And if I want to call them "we" because my dad called them 'we" the first time he carried me into old Mile High, then i'm going to do that.

Rabb
11-16-2010, 01:00 PM
I say we, and I couldn't care less what anyone thinks about it

footstepsfrom#27
11-16-2010, 01:21 PM
I do not necessarily think the modern player is invested in the "family" thing and I never said they were. I said that they were vested in the idea of the Denver Broncos. Which they have to be, even if its just for the money, they are somewhat vested in their employer.
Sorry...I extrapolated the blog's theme into your comment when I saw you put Jarvis Moss in there and a flashing neon sign popped into my head. Yesterday I read something about one of these old NFL geezers from the '60's who was HOF or all pro...whatever I can't recall who it was...but he signed his first contract for salaries of $20k with $5k increments over if I remember correctly, 4 years. It just threw the whole concept of "family" I'm hearing from a guy who actually worked with the team during that time into a bizarre spinout when connecting that concept with what we see in the FA era. In any case, I think any Joe Blow is vested in his employer whether it's a kid at WalMart or Tim Tebow or Michael Vick. I think actions (Champ agreeing to a lesser deal here for example) speak louder than words. I'm thinking of the Broncos that I'd consider loyal to "team" or to use JS's word, "family" and frankly I can't come up with to many that haven't retired by now. The Floyd Littles and people that put root into the community I'll give you, but face it, most of these guys would be just as content on any other team because it's about the money. Why would we expect that it not be? Don't MOST people work for money? I'm a bizarre exception in that I prefer inner satisfaction and all that other stuff in my values matrix as more important but I think when you're talking millions...values get tossed in a hurry in most any business. Yet fans WANT to believe somehow that the players not only ARE loyal to "team" or "family", but in fact they SHOULD be as well. I question that assumption but that's for another discussion.

footstepsfrom#27
11-16-2010, 01:23 PM
I say we, and I couldn't care less what anyone thinks about it
This lol