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Eldorado
11-16-2010, 07:52 AM
1. Brandon Lloyd Wide Receiver 3/5/2010: Signed a two-year, $2.05 million contract. The deal included a $500,000 signing bonus. 2010: $755,000, 2011: $795,000, 2012: Free Agent

2. Champ Bailey Defensive Back 2010: $9.5 million, 2011: Free Agent

3. Ryan Harris Tackle 7/25/2007: Signed a four-year, $2.75 million contract. The deal included an $805,000 signing bonus. 2010: $550,000, 2011: Free Agent

4. Kyle Orton Quarterback 8/19/2010: Signed a two-year, $11.621 million contract. The deal contains $8.2 million guaranteed, including $5.5 million of Orton's 2011 base salary. 2010: $2.621 million, 2011: $9 million, 2012: Free Agent

5. Marcus Thomas Defensive Lineman 7/11/2007: Signed a four-year, $2.093 million contract. The deal included a $428,000 signing bonus. 2009: $460,000, 2010: $550,000, 2011: Free Agent

Eldorado
11-16-2010, 07:53 AM
Brandon's got to be number one on the list, right?

missingnumber7
11-16-2010, 08:03 AM
Wouldn't Champ be priority 1...And 90% of this is going to have to do with the CBA, I have a feeling that players are going to rush to sign deals so that they have something in writing. And why is Orton even on the list?

Eldorado
11-16-2010, 08:07 AM
Wouldn't Champ be priority 1...And 90% of this is going to have to do with the CBA, I have a feeling that players are going to rush to sign deals so that they have something in writing. And why is Orton even on the list?

1. That's my point, if it's an either or, I'm inking Brandon.

2. Orton's done after next year. Are you going to just let him walk?!

Ray Finkle
11-16-2010, 08:07 AM
Lloyd still has a year so no
Champ yes
Harris- He'll be an RFA so it's not a major issue
Orton- Tebow
Thomas- meh

montrose
11-16-2010, 08:08 AM
If Marcus Thomas is resigned I will puke.

Hercules Rockefeller
11-16-2010, 08:10 AM
Champ- UFA

Lloyd and Orton are signed through next season

Harris and Thomas are RFAs

Mr.Meanie
11-16-2010, 08:11 AM
Thomas has been playing pretty good lately it seems

Smiling Assassin27
11-16-2010, 08:13 AM
Isn't Woodyard up in 2011? I think we need to keep him as LB depth and special teams ace.

bowtown
11-16-2010, 08:13 AM
Thomas has been playing pretty good lately it seems

And he can do back flips. Lock him up!

Smiling Assassin27
11-16-2010, 08:14 AM
Is Prater up in 2011 as well?

_Oro_
11-16-2010, 08:14 AM
If Marcus Thomas is resigned I will puke.

This season he just started making plays.... Guess its a contract year for him.

lostknight
11-16-2010, 08:14 AM
Harris is the the top priority - if nothing else because we have a lot of talent at WR with DT and Decker coming up through the ranks (when does Gaffney's contract expire?). Obviously, I don't think a marshall style contract is worth it, and that's probably what it will take. I don't think Champ gets resigned. Thomas is good depth, and I think we can get him for $700k or so.

Eldorado
11-16-2010, 08:15 AM
Is Prater up in 2011 as well?

Matt Prater Place Kicker 2010: $545,000, 2011: Restricted Free Agent

Eldorado
11-16-2010, 08:19 AM
Harris is the the top priority - if nothing else because we have a lot of talent at WR with DT and Decker coming up through the ranks (when does Gaffney's contract expire?). Obviously, I don't think a marshall style contract is worth it, and that's probably what it will take. I don't think Champ gets resigned. Thomas is good depth, and I think we can get him for $700k or so.

Jabar Gaffney Wide Receiver 2/27/2009: Signed a four-year, $10 million contract. The deal includes $3 million guaranteed. 2010: $1.95 million, 2011: $2.4 million, 2012: $2.65 million, 2013: Free Agent


Ok, so the last 7 games will go along way to cementing his position, but right now BL is the best receiver in football, and we're just gonna let him walk because we have rookies behind him? I agree with thomas, back up money or nothing.

The Joker
11-16-2010, 08:19 AM
Hard to know what will happen with Harris and Thomas, if a new CBA gets done they'll probably hit free agency.

Orton I expect will either be traded in the offseason or will play out next year and then the team will decide between he and Tebow who to go forward with.

Lloyd will hold out if he doesn't get a new deal, and I couldn't blame him for doing so. He's earned a very nice deal, and if Denver doesn't want to give it to him there'll be plenty of teams out there more than willing to do so. Playing next year on his current deal would be stupid from his POV. He's going to be 30 by the time next season starts, he needs to get paid soon.

Champ I honestly don't know, he's probably just not going to be worth elite corner money anymore for anything more than a year or two. I hope he and the team find a place they can agree to meet at and get something done though, would suck to see him go.

Beantown Bronco
11-16-2010, 08:25 AM
I find it odd that some posters don't consider guys with one year left on their contracts as priorities. Typically that is when you really look to re-sign guys to extensions. You don't wait until they've got one foot out the door, ready to test free agency.

Just because you still have one year left doesn't mean you aren't a priority.

Eldorado
11-16-2010, 08:26 AM
I find it odd that some posters don't consider guys with one year left on their contracts as priorities. Typically that is when you really look to re-sign guys to extensions. You don't wait until they've got one foot out the door, ready to test free agency.

Just because you still have one year left doesn't mean you aren't a priority.

So who's your number 1?

broncosteven
11-16-2010, 08:27 AM
If Marcus Thomas is resigned I will puke.

As hard as it is for this franchise to find DL I wouldn't let a good rotational guy walk. He shouldn't command/demand much and can come in off the bench should we ever draft a better DL.

I would sign Harris 1st, then see if Champ will talk.

I wouldn't break the bank on Lloyd because we have WR depth, DT looks like the real deal, and he is getting up there in age.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-16-2010, 08:27 AM
While Harris and Bailey may be more pressing, Brandon should be given an extension in good faith. He's WELL exceeded his salary and if he blows his knee the first game of next season, think the broncos will sign him to a new contract? Of course not. If i were him, i'd wanna get paid.

McDman
11-16-2010, 08:30 AM
Isn't Woodyard up in 2011? I think we need to keep him as LB depth and special teams ace.

Agree, he's this team's Keith Burns.

Eldorado
11-16-2010, 08:32 AM
Isn't Woodyard up in 2011? I think we need to keep him as LB depth and special teams ace.

Wesley Woodyard Linebacker 4/29/2008: Signed a three-year, $1.175 million contract. The deal included a $20,000 signing bonus. 2009: $385,000, 2010: $475,000, 2011: Restricted Free Agent

Ray Finkle
11-16-2010, 08:36 AM
Agree, he's this team's Keith Burns.

he should be easier to sign then the others.

I can't see plunking down a lot of cash on a RT that cannot stay healthy. Thomas is meh.....if he is a bottom tier salary, then fine, otherwise let him walk.

Popps
11-16-2010, 08:38 AM
Orton is obvious. You lock him up as quickly as possible.

Champ is trickier, but needs to happen.

Lloyd is also tricky. I love his play, but he's had one good season. Is his attitude finally right? A contract extension is an expensive way to find out. Still, he's got major chemistry with Orton, and did in Chicago, as well. I think it's worth the gamble.

Boobs McGee
11-16-2010, 08:46 AM
Heres my question... and let me preface by saying that I'm a big Kyle orton supporter... but what's the general temperature of the board in regards to the qb position next year? (assuming there IS a next year). If Kyle keeps up with his production and consistency this year, at what point in time do you decide to start timmy. Let's say next year he continues on his same pace, do we extend him and ride that horse for a couple years? It seems to me that he is going to need some BIG money if he stays the course... so I'm curious as to what kind of a decision the broncos would make in regards to his future here. I doubt we pay big money to a qb if he's just going to be a solid backup

Popps
11-16-2010, 08:58 AM
Wesley Woodyard Linebacker 4/29/2008: Signed a three-year, $1.175 million contract. The deal included a $20,000 signing bonus. 2009: $385,000, 2010: $475,000, 2011: Restricted Free Agent

McD likes Woodyard and Larsen a lot. Neither seem to be able to stay healthy, though.

That could make for bargain re-signings.

_Oro_
11-16-2010, 09:04 AM
I love the idea of having Orton take us to the redzone and Tebow putting it in the endzone. If Orton ever goes down with another ankle injury then Tebow can come in an show if he's going to be the Franchise or not.

I've been thinking Lloyd would be the perfect candidate to trade and stock up on picks but with every spectacular catch, and as the production starts reaching Jerry Rice levels, I'm starting to think he's worth locking up. We have a good chance at a home team discount with him too because he knows his success due largely to this system.

The Joker
11-16-2010, 09:04 AM
I suppose that financially there'd be no real problems with extending Orton another few years and keeping Tebow in the role he's in, and indeed expanding that role as we go forward.

Tebow's rookie deal was 5 years, $11.25m. That's pretty good money to be paying a back-up QB, nevermind a guy who is a redzone weapon like Tebow is. So you could easily tie up Orton to a long term, big money deal and not have too much invested at the QB position.

I just wonder how long Tebow is going to be happy to ride the pine in that role? I know he's not going to complain and cause problems, but the guy loves football and will want his chance to start eventually. How long can we expect him to wait?

Gonna be a very interesting decision when the time comes to make it. Can't wait for the Tebow v Orton wars on here, they're going to be epic.

Mile High Shack
11-16-2010, 09:07 AM
I don't think anything is going to happen contract wise until they figure this labor situation out. Taking away the contract from Champ assures that.

I think Bowlen knows there is no stopping it and he is bunkering down....so it's all well and good, but nothing is going to happen until probably April of next year at best

Br0nc0Buster
11-16-2010, 09:11 AM
I would put Lloyd and Champ at the top of the list
Champ might be tricky, but I would really like to see him retire as a Bronco

Harris can never stay healthy, and under the current CBA I think would be a RFA
no idea what would happen with a new CBA though, but I would be leery about handing him a lot of money

Thomas would be a good resigning as well, he isnt a great player, but is solid and versatile

gyldenlove
11-16-2010, 09:12 AM
Woodyard and Larsen need to stay, both should be very reasonable prices.

Harris would be my number 1 priority if he stays healthy the year out, because of his injury situation and lack of pro bowls, he should command pretty average money for a starting OT, but given his age and level of play that could be a bargain.

Lloyd wouldn't be a high priority given he won't be a free agent, he is the type of player you can start negotiating with later in the offseason or into next season.

Thomas I would offer a small contract and if he doesn't take it let him test the market.

Beantown Bronco
11-16-2010, 09:21 AM
So who's your number 1?

For the big $ guys, I'd go:

Lloyd, followed closely by Orton, then Champ

I'd put Harris first up in the next tier. He shouldn't cost too much given his injury history.

Inkana7
11-16-2010, 09:23 AM
With Orton, we sign him and keep playing him until he shows that he just can't get it done anymore. We have that luxury. He is playing out of his mind right now, and I expect next year, being his 3rd in McDaniels' system, he'll be even better.

This is a good problem to have. We cannot afford to let Orton walk if he continues playing like this for us.

TheChamp24
11-16-2010, 09:28 AM
We need to wait and hear about the new CBA, if there is one.

24champ
11-16-2010, 09:30 AM
Orton is obvious. You lock him up as quickly as possible.


I don't think you do, until he proves he can lead a team to the playoffs. We have a QB of the future waiting in the wings, and I would be very hesitant to give Orton any sort of long term extension and money.

Eldorado
11-16-2010, 09:31 AM
For the big $ guys, I'd go:

Lloyd, followed closely by Orton, then Champ

I'd put Harris first up in the next tier. He shouldn't cost too much given his injury history.

I think champ and harris before orton, just because they walk at the end of this season. Orton's getting decent $ and we would have next year to work on it as well. But your point is taken, and as long as they do all four, I give a **** which order.

Eldorado
11-16-2010, 09:32 AM
We need to wait and hear about the new CBA, if there is one.

Well, yeah, ok, but that's no ****ing fun.

Ray Finkle
11-16-2010, 09:32 AM
Lloyd still has a year left on his deal, why is he a priority? Does he deserve a raise, yes but you wait until after the season for that. With Decker and Thomas behind him, you don't break the bank on him.

You point to Branch leaving the Pats and tell him to take a team friendly deal or you'll ship him to Buffalo....

oubronco
11-16-2010, 09:35 AM
Jarvis Moss needs to get paid like yesterday he's gonna kill to get his

Eldorado
11-16-2010, 09:37 AM
Jarvis Moss needs to get paid like yesterday he's gonna kill to get his

Jarvis Moss Linebacker 7/28/2007: Signed a five-year, $14.95 million contract. The deal includes $8.06 million guaranteed. Another $3 million is available through incentives. 2010: $750,000, 2011: $850,000, 2012: Free Agent

I think that dude owes the Broncos money.

Lev Vyvanse
11-16-2010, 10:03 AM
1. Lloyd
2. Champ (if he moves to free safety)
3. Orton
4. Harris (I don't think we should pay a guy that only plays in half the games)

Irish Stout
11-16-2010, 10:03 AM
Orton's numbers are insane this year. The work that man does with a little pocket time has been unbelievable. We didn't give him that much to work with back there until Sunday. You cannot let Orton come even close to walking. Tie Orton up with a longer term contract and if the right offer comes around you can trade him... you can also trade Tebow if Orton continues to grow from this year into next at the pace he did for the past year.

Really theres nothing to worry about at QB. Biggest fear is letting Orton go for nothing after 2011 and Tebow struggles.

Popps
11-16-2010, 10:04 AM
I don't think you do, until he proves he can lead a team to the playoffs. We have a QB of the future waiting in the wings, and I would be very hesitant to give Orton any sort of long term extension and money.

Dude, we have no idea if Tebow can play in the NFL at all. He's a novelty, at this point. To call ANYONE the "QBOTF" is a stretch, imo... much less a guy thought to be a project.

Orton hasn't "led a team to the playoffs" because he doesn't have a playoff team around him.

He has, however... played near flawless football even when things around him weren't going well.

This is the second season of him playing very good football, and we saw Sunday that when people are doing their jobs around him, he can help an offense dominate.

You don't throw that away for a "maybe." Ask Mike Shanahan. He couldn't wait to play his QBOTF, and it destroyed his team.

missingnumber7
11-16-2010, 10:22 AM
First of all no one who has a contract for 2011 is going to get anything new right now, or until the new CBA is completed, figured out, read, reread, understood to some degree, and then digested while waiting for someone to make the first ridiculous contract offer to someone.

Second, Orton received an extension at the begining of the season, offering him a contract right now would be the most insane thing Pat has ever done, and won't happen.

I know that its fun to make knee jerk reactions and then be pissed off later, but I don't see anyone (Other than the Washington Redskins FO) doing anything while the future of the CBA is what it is right now.

Ray Finkle
11-16-2010, 10:28 AM
First of all no one who has a contract for 2011 is going to get anything new right now, or until the new CBA is completed, figured out, read, reread, understood to some degree, and then digested while waiting for someone to make the first ridiculous contract offer to someone.

Second, Orton received an extension at the begining of the season, offering him a contract right now would be the most insane thing Pat has ever done, and won't happen.

I know that its fun to make knee jerk reactions and then be pissed off later, but I don't see anyone (Other than the Washington Redskins FO) doing anything while the future of the CBA is what it is right now.


why would the Broncos negotiate with Orton when his value is high? Negotiations are all about leverage, they'd get bent over the barrel right now.

Same as lloyd.

footstepsfrom#27
11-16-2010, 10:44 AM
Jabar Gaffney Wide Receiver 2/27/2009: Signed a four-year, $10 million contract. The deal includes $3 million guaranteed. 2010: $1.95 million, 2011: $2.4 million, 2012: $2.65 million, 2013: Free Agent


Ok, so the last 7 games will go along way to cementing his position, but right now BL is the best receiver in football, and we're just gonna let him walk because we have rookies behind him? I agree with thomas, back up money or nothing.
Problem is...he's gonne want to get PAID like he's been playing. With the rooks behind him, will Bowlen open the wallet up? The "Patriot Way" would be to let him walk...I don't agree with it but it wouldn't surprise me. In this system it's the system itself that's prized, not the players. I hope I'm wrong because I love watching this guy play.

Irish Stout
11-16-2010, 10:46 AM
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that any of this was talking about signing anyone to a contract today, thought it was just talking about contract priority. The only one you'd even think of signing now would be Champ, but we know that won't happen with the CBA the way it is.

footstepsfrom#27
11-16-2010, 10:48 AM
Dude, we have no idea if Tebow can play in the NFL at all. He's a novelty, at this point. To call ANYONE the "QBOTF" is a stretch, imo... much less a guy thought to be a project.

Orton hasn't "led a team to the playoffs" because he doesn't have a playoff team around him.

He has, however... played near flawless football even when things around him weren't going well.

This is the second season of him playing very good football, and we saw Sunday that when people are doing their jobs around him, he can help an offense dominate.

You don't throw that away for a "maybe." Ask Mike Shanahan. He couldn't wait to play his QBOTF, and it destroyed his team.
Wake up and smell the coffee dude. McD didn't move up to get this guy so he could spend his career sitting behind Orton. It's gonne happen, not this year but it's gonne happen.

Irish Stout
11-16-2010, 10:49 AM
why would the Broncos negotiate with Orton when his value is high? Negotiations are all about leverage, they'd get bent over the barrel right now.

Same as lloyd.

Why would you ever re-sign Orton if he didn't have some leverage, some value? The longer time goes without Orton significantly decreasing in his skills or getting injured then the less leverage a team has and the higher demand Orton can make. If you were to do it at the beginning of next season to another one or two year deal, then Orton might do it for less for security reasons. If you waited towards the end of his contract and Orton some how pulls off back to back pro bowls, then all leverage has walked out the door.

Orton's value may be at the highest its ever been, but the longer he plays well the higher his value goes. You negotiate with players whose value is high when you expect them to retain that value or improve on it.

Irish Stout
11-16-2010, 10:53 AM
Wake up and smell the coffee dude. McD didn't move up to get this guy so he could spend his career sitting behind Orton. It's gonne happen, not this year but it's gonne happen.

I love it! Great predicament to have, one great pocket QB and one great wild card QB. Whatever happens it will be interesting to see how it rounds out between the two and McD going forward. I think McD can safely keep Tebow as a backup for 3 years, then there is going to be too much pressure to do something with him. If Orton is still performing for us at that point we might have a similar situation to Drew Brees and Phyllus Rivers in SD a few years ago... or at least one could hope.

I hope Tebow keeps improving and Orton keeps playing lights out. High values from the two while they're both under contract only means we can eventually pick up some draft picks or get some good trade value out of them.

jutang
11-16-2010, 10:54 AM
If Tebow is ready, trade Orton to the Bears for 2 1st rounders and a 3rd.

Mountain Bronco
11-16-2010, 11:22 AM
Champ depends on the number. He isn't as elite as he used to be, but still one hell of a player. If he wants to be in top 3 CB money you can't sign him or if it is a long deal that doesn't actually decrease in value you can't sign him. Loyd let him prove it for the rest of the year, then yes he gets an extension.

Orton is tricky, he is playing well, but what about Tebow? Orton will be expensive to extend and he won't likely take another short deal. If the francise tag is around you can always play that game.

Aren't there like a billion MT around. Decent backup, if he is ok playing for backup pay.

baja
11-16-2010, 11:26 AM
Hard to know what will happen with Harris and Thomas, if a new CBA gets done they'll probably hit free agency.

Orton I expect will either be traded in the offseason or will play out next year and then the team will decide between he and Tebow who to go forward with.

Lloyd will hold out if he doesn't get a new deal, and I couldn't blame him for doing so. He's earned a very nice deal, and if Denver doesn't want to give it to him there'll be plenty of teams out there more than willing to do so. Playing next year on his current deal would be stupid from his POV. He's going to be 30 by the time next season starts, he needs to get paid soon.

Champ I honestly don't know, he's probably just not going to be worth elite corner money anymore for anything more than a year or two. I hope he and the team find a place they can agree to meet at and get something done though, would suck to see him go.

If we had kept Smith, him along with Cox would have made the Champ signing less critical.

baja
11-16-2010, 11:33 AM
Heres my question... and let me preface by saying that I'm a big Kyle orton supporter... but what's the general temperature of the board in regards to the qb position next year? (assuming there IS a next year). If Kyle keeps up with his production and consistency this year, at what point in time do you decide to start timmy. Let's say next year he continues on his same pace, do we extend him and ride that horse for a couple years? It seems to me that he is going to need some BIG money if he stays the course... so I'm curious as to what kind of a decision the broncos would make in regards to his future here. I doubt we pay big money to a qb if he's just going to be a solid backup

I think this will be 100% dictated by the development of Tebow, if the coaching staff feels he is ready to take over the team Kyle will be traded for some very nice picks. I also laugh at the posters that assume Quinn the QB was a failed pick. Remember what Orton looked like in his first preseason and look at him now.

Josh is to QB's what Shanny was to running backs.

baja
11-16-2010, 11:37 AM
I love the idea of having Orton take us to the redzone and Tebow putting it in the endzone. If Orton ever goes down with another ankle injury then Tebow can come in an show if he's going to be the Franchise or not.

I've been thinking Lloyd would be the perfect candidate to trade and stock up on picks but with every spectacular catch, and as the production starts reaching Jerry Rice levels, I'm starting to think he's worth locking up. We have a good chance at a home team discount with him too because <B> he knows his success due largely to this system.

Every other free agent WR that has not lived up to his expectations will see the same thing so we will have no problem signing WRs in free agency, maybe at a discount too.

baja
11-16-2010, 11:48 AM
I don't think you do, until he proves he can lead a team to the playoffs. We have a QB of the future waiting in the wings, and I would be very hesitant to give Orton any sort of long term extension and money.

I agree with this. As much as I am impressed with Kyle's improvement in this system he tends to not rise to the occasion and get that score you need for the win. It will all come down to Tebow's (and Quinn's) progress as to what happens to Orton in Denver.

I am one of the few that thinks before it is all said and done Quinn for Hillis will look like a steal for the Broncos.

Beantown Bronco
11-16-2010, 11:50 AM
I also laugh at the posters that assume Quinn the QB was a failed pick. Remember what Orton looked like in his first preseason and look at him now.

To be fair, Orton only had that one really bad first preseason game. His career leading up to that point was decent and after that point has been great. That one really bad preseason game was clearly an aberration.

Quinn? He has never shown anything but suck since he's been in the league (unless, of course, he's facing the #32 ranked defense in the NFL), so there's no reason to believe he's any better than the suckiness he displayed in his first preseason here. To this point, his bad Broncos debut is anything but an aberration.

baja
11-16-2010, 11:56 AM
Why would you ever re-sign Orton if he didn't have some leverage, some value? The longer time goes without Orton significantly decreasing in his skills or getting injured then the less leverage a team has and the higher demand Orton can make. If you were to do it at the beginning of next season to another one or two year deal, then Orton might do it for less for security reasons. If you waited towards the end of his contract and Orton some how pulls off back to back pro bowls, then all leverage has walked out the door.

Orton's value may be at the highest its ever been, but the longer he plays well the higher his value goes. You negotiate with players whose value is high when you expect them to retain that value or improve on it.

So you just franchise & trade, that was the reason for the one year deal

baja
11-16-2010, 12:01 PM
To be fair, Orton only had that one really bad first preseason game. His career leading up to that point was decent and after that point has been great. That one really bad preseason game was clearly an aberration.

Quinn? He has never shown anything but suck since he's been in the league (unless, of course, he's facing the #32 ranked defense in the NFL), so there's no reason to believe he's any better than the suckiness he displayed in his first preseason here. To this point, his bad Broncos debut is anything but an aberration.

I'm gona trust Josh on this one. When it comes to QBs he has proved he knows what he is doing. Brady / Cassell / Orton / Tebow? Quinn?

ScottXray
11-16-2010, 12:04 PM
its absoluteley a MUST that Shanny get McNabb signed to an extension NOW!

He is the future of the franchise and the QBOTF for the Redskins.


Oh wait!


WTF!

lostknight
11-16-2010, 12:27 PM
Orton hasn't "led a team to the playoffs" because he doesn't have a playoff team around him.


Elway he is not. We all agree on that.

He has, however... played near flawless football even when things around him weren't going well.
That's revisionist at best. We had two games where he threw interceptions to end any chance to win. On the whole, he's been great, but he has also failed when the stakes are high.

This is the second season of him playing very good football, and we saw Sunday that when people are doing their jobs around him, he can help an offense dominate.


Yes.

You don't throw that away for a "maybe." Ask Mike Shanahan. He couldn't wait to play his QBOTF, and it destroyed his team.

Sure you do. Go look at what Michael Vick did last night to the Redskins. Down the field accuracy and a mobile quarterback can results in wins, even when the rest of the team has problems. Orton has not been able to do that.

Even more, Football is about dollars and sense, and Tebow's commercial appeal is huge. Note that even when Kyle was rocking and rolling - really for the first time in Denver, the crowd took it to another level when Tebow was in.

Is Tebow going to start next year? Probably not. But is the team going to dedicate scarce dollars for Orton after next, if things continue on their current trajectory. Probably not. Orton wants to hit the open market sooner or later anyways. He has a 50 million dollar contract to go spear.

24champ
11-16-2010, 11:34 PM
Dude, we have no idea if Tebow can play in the NFL at all. He's a novelty, at this point. To call ANYONE the "QBOTF" is a stretch, imo... much less a guy thought to be a project.

I am basing this on the fact McDaniels is an excellent QB coach, probably the best in the NFL based on his resume. Nothing against Shanahan, but McDaniels has broken NFL records with Brady, and made Cassel who never started a football game since high school, look real good. To the point where the Chiefs gave him insane money. Now he has shipped out Cutler and replaced him with Orton, who is playing extremely well under McDaniels. However does he possess the killer instinct? This is something that Drek alluded to awhile ago, and the main reason why McDaniels drafted Tebow and traded for Quinn. All three Quarterbacks will be with the Broncos through next year, and only Tebow has a contract beyond that point.


Orton hasn't "led a team to the playoffs" because he doesn't have a playoff team around him.

He has also contributed to losses, he hasn't shown that 4th quarter killer instinct...yet. There's still time for Orton to display those abilities.




You don't throw that away for a "maybe." Ask Mike Shanahan. He couldn't wait to play his QBOTF, and it destroyed his team.

First of all, no one is saying yank Orton now. He earned the right to keep playing through the season. I can't imagine Orton being gone in the offseason, but we've been through some crazy offseasons the past few years. So I wouldn't rule it out, if another team over pays and the fact the Broncos did draft Tebow and extended Orton to just another year. Tells me a lot about Orton's future here...

Far as the Plummer/Cutler situation. That was a different than the current situation. First of all, the current team is not coming off a AFC Championship appearance, and Broncos are not 7-4. Broncos have not been to the playoffs on a regular basis with Orton as they were with Plummer. It was a bad move to yank Plummer, and like I said I don't think McDaniels will play head games with Orton's head in the middle of the season and destroy the locker room.

Rock Chalk
11-17-2010, 04:40 AM
Elway he is not. We all agree on that.


That's revisionist at best. We had two games where he threw interceptions to end any chance to win. On the whole, he's been great, but he has also failed when the stakes are high.


Yes.


Sure you do. Go look at what Michael Vick did last night to the Redskins. Down the field accuracy and a mobile quarterback can results in wins, even when the rest of the team has problems. Orton has not been able to do that.

Even more, Football is about dollars and sense, and Tebow's commercial appeal is huge. Note that even when Kyle was rocking and rolling - really for the first time in Denver, the crowd took it to another level when Tebow was in.

Is Tebow going to start next year? Probably not. But is the team going to dedicate scarce dollars for Orton after next, if things continue on their current trajectory. Probably not. Orton wants to hit the open market sooner or later anyways. He has a 50 million dollar contract to go spear.

Dude, Vick has been in the league off and off for like 8 years and has had a lot of time to get to that point. Tebow is no where near that.

He isn't as accurate as Vick is now. He is not as mobile as Vick even now and he hasn't had time to read defenses like Vick has. Comparing Tebow to Vick at this point is ridiculous.

Let's assume we trade Orton this offseason and throw Tebow to the wolves next season. Next season is then wasted because despite MAYBE being a good NFL QB at some point, it wont be next year for Little Tim. He was a project, plain and simple and at minimum he should sit for 3, maybe even 4 years. You keep playing Orton, period, until he loses his job by his performance.

Aaron Rodgers sat behind Favre for 3 years and his first year in he did well but he also made a ton of mistakes. Rodgers was in no way considered the project that Tebow is considered and it took him 3 years. By putting Tebow in early you hamper his development much like MOST QBs development is hampered by being thrown in too early.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-17-2010, 06:02 AM
Heres my question... and let me preface by saying that I'm a big Kyle orton supporter... but what's the general temperature of the board in regards to the qb position next year? (assuming there IS a next year). If Kyle keeps up with his production and consistency this year, at what point in time do you decide to start timmy. Let's say next year he continues on his same pace, do we extend him and ride that horse for a couple years? It seems to me that he is going to need some BIG money if he stays the course... so I'm curious as to what kind of a decision the broncos would make in regards to his future here. I doubt we pay big money to a qb if he's just going to be a solid backup

I would hope that we extend Kyle for another few years. As long as he's playing at a high level, we keep him on, with Tebow doing spot duty and creating things at the goal line to keep us scoring touchdowns.

Tebow will have some shots to run the offense between now and whenever, and hopefully he improves to be a good backup/spot starter when needed. But one in the hand is worth two in the bush, and Kyle Orton is our one in the hand. Hard to give up on a guy who performs the way he has, especially in preference for an unproven project.

Broncoman13
11-17-2010, 06:22 AM
Lloyd is a priority. Marcus Thomas has been playing really well lately. Not a priority but someone I would like us to resign. Ryan Harris is a priority. Injury concerns aside, he is an integral part of our OL and their success. His return to the lineup and allowing Beadles to slide inside looks like our recipe for success. Signing/drafting a swing tackle will need to be a priority as well.

I don't know what to think about Champ Bailey. I love the guy, the player he once was, and how he is the only player on this team that truly understands what its like to be great in Denver (well maybe DJ as well). But if you're going to have to throw $40-50m at a player wouldn't you prefer that player be a true difference maker? At this stage in his career Champ may not be that difference maker and to be loyal to him may be counterproductive. Very similar to the Rockies giving Todd Helton big bucks and getting very little in return. The money would have been better spent elsewhere and the same may be true for Champ.

Drek
11-17-2010, 06:42 AM
Thomas is a rotational DL. We can get a dozen guys comparable to him in FA, and they probably won't have his tendency to forget his assignments and try to shoot the gap.

Orton just got an extension, talk of extending him doesn't come up until pre-season 2011 at soonest. Personally I'd let him play 2011 out and then give him a fair market value contract if he looks worth it. We'd pay more than now but better to be sure he's the guy before we put a fat QB contract in front of Tebow.

Lloyd should get a renegotiation but its not a priority yet. He's under contract for 2011 already and with this one good year under his belt he still lacks the ammo to have a successful holdout. Best move with him is come next off-season we strike a deal with him similar to what we did with Orton this past off-season. Take the one year short money deal he's on and add a year or two onto the end of it for good but not great WR money. Probably something like a 2 year, $12M extension with $6M guaranteed.

Harris is a no brainer extend before the beginning of FA type assuming he's realistic on his value. He should want to stay here as long as we don't short change him since he's getting into the system and he'd stay with the same medical staff. Something like league average starting RT money with escalators for games played should be an easy deal for all sides to agree on. If he won't take that though? Let him walk and go get a new RT early in next year's draft.

Champ is the real priority. On the decline or not he's still a top 10 CB in the league and we aren't going to replace him unless we get real lucky in the draft. The challenge is structuring the deal in such a way that if Champ does actually show some real speed decline we can rotate him over to safety without breaking the bank. To me that would indicate roster escalators based on games played at each position. Something like a 4 year, $30M contract with $15M guaranteed and escalators for playing more than 10 games at corner that push each year up over $10M per.

baja
11-17-2010, 06:49 AM
Thomas is a rotational DL. We can get a dozen guys comparable to him in FA, and they probably won't have his tendency to forget his assignments and try to shoot the gap.

Orton just got an extension, talk of extending him doesn't come up until pre-season 2011 at soonest. Personally I'd let him play 2011 out and then give him a fair market value contract if he looks worth it. We'd pay more than now but better to be sure he's the guy before we put a fat QB contract in front of Tebow.

Lloyd should get a renegotiation but its not a priority yet. He's under contract for 2011 already and with this one good year under his belt he still lacks the ammo to have a successful holdout. Best move with him is come next off-season we strike a deal with him similar to what we did with Orton this past off-season. Take the one year short money deal he's on and add a year or two onto the end of it for good but not great WR money. Probably something like a 2 year, $12M extension with $6M guaranteed.

Harris is a no brainer extend before the beginning of FA type assuming he's realistic on his value. He should want to stay here as long as we don't short change him since he's getting into the system and he'd stay with the same medical staff. Something like league average starting RT money with escalators for games played should be an easy deal for all sides to agree on. If he won't take that though? Let him walk and go get a new RT early in next year's draft.

Champ is the real priority. On the decline or not he's still a top 10 CB in the league and we aren't going to replace him unless we get real lucky in the draft. The challenge is structuring the deal in such a way that if Champ does actually show some real speed decline we can rotate him over to safety without breaking the bank. To me that would indicate roster escalators based on games played at each position. <b> Something like a 4 year, $30M contract with $15M guaranteed and escalators for playing more than 10 games at corner that push each year up over $10M per.

That would be great for the Broncos but Champ would be nuts to sign that deal with all the FO incentives to switch Champ to safety. Champ probably believes he can play corner for several more years and would want to be more in control his destiny.

lostknight
11-17-2010, 06:59 AM
Let's assume we trade Orton this offseason and throw Tebow to the wolves next season.

Why would we do that? It makes no sense too, given that you have a extra year to work with.
By putting Tebow in early you hamper his development much like MOST QBs development is hampered by being thrown in too early.
You are the one that pre-supposed this particular time frame.

Drek
11-17-2010, 07:05 AM
That would be great for the Broncos but Champ would be nuts to sign that deal with all the FO incentives to switch Champ to safety. Champ probably believes he can play corner for several more years and would want to be more in control his destiny.

Well the FO would still be paying Champ like a top 3 safety in the league, so unless they're 100% sure he'd play like a top 3 safety they'd likely ride him out at CB until there was mutual agreement on moving him.

The big question is if Champ understands that he isn't likely to get big guarantees stretching 4+ years out. He's getting older and even though he's still playing well that means the end is closer. He needs to understand that the length and size of guaranteed money will have to decline as a result, and that the decline is not indicative of his play, just his age.

WolfpackGuy
11-17-2010, 07:14 AM
Champ walks.

I'm sure Shanahan will throw some money at Harris.

It shouldn't cost too much to keep Thomas.

Lloyd may be a wild card though.

I don't think Orton is going anywhere unless he or the team gets a sweet deal.

Beantown Bronco
11-17-2010, 07:25 AM
He has also contributed to losses, he hasn't shown that 4th quarter killer instinct...yet.

With regard to the 4th quarter killer instinct, I think the Pats and Cowboys would certainly disagree based off last year's games. And when in his Broncos career have we lost a game that we were winning in the 4th quarter? I'm almost positive the answer is zero. That can't be ignored.

With regard to "contributing to losses", I'll assume we're talking about the games this year when we were down by multiple scores in the 4th quarter in which he led us on TD drives to get us within one score and then couldn't seal the deal on the final drive. People are really stressing out over things that just don't happen that often in the NFL. The best QBs to ever play the game average maybe one or two multiple score comeback victories per year over the course of their careers.

Has Kyle had some key turnovers at the end of some close games this year? Sure. But look at the context of those turnovers. One was a bad shotgun snap that bounced in such a way that falling on it wasn't really an option and the INTs were obvious miscommunications where he read blitz and the WRs didn't. Can't put that all on him, especially when the blitz read was the correct one.

I feel as confident or more confident in Orton in the 4th quarter than I ever have with any other QB. I know that if we are winning going into it, that he won't do anything stupid to lose it. And I know that if we are within a score or two, he'll keep fighting and will give us just as good a shot or a better shot to win than most others would.

baja
11-17-2010, 07:29 AM
Well the FO would still be paying Champ like a top 3 safety in the league, so unless they're 100% sure he'd play like a top 3 safety they'd likely ride him out at CB until there was mutual agreement on moving him.

The big question is if Champ understands that he isn't likely to get big guarantees stretching 4+ years out. He's getting older and even though he's still playing well that means the end is closer. He needs to understand that the length and size of guaranteed money will have to decline as a result, and that the decline is not indicative of his play, just his age.

Well he was ready to sign a deal but the FO pulled the offer so there is that...