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View Full Version : Not a fluke win by any stretch


enjolras
11-14-2010, 11:14 PM
Today was awesome, but I feel like it's really important to point out that what we saw today wasn't just a random fluke. This team looked dramatically improved (particularly on offense) and that really shouldn't be a surprise. All year I've been chirping about how incredibly god-awful Hochstein has been.

It's been just crystal clear to me, and it was driving me nuts. I figured I'd have to live with it as Beadles has spent most of his rookie season taking snaps at right tackle. Thankfully the bye week (and a finally healthy Harris) provided the chance for McDaniels to install Beadles at his natural position.

The difference was obvious from snap one. I just finished watching the game again, taking some time to zero in on the offensive line. I saw two things that really stood out.

1. Beadles did an outstanding job of sealing blocks. Hochstein has a bad habit of being slow off the ball. Beadles does not. He gets out of his stance and into position remarkably well. Our running game looked like a competent NFL running game largely because the left side of the line was setting holes and (in a first this year) providing cutback lanes when Knowshown needed them. The difference was obvious.

2. Clady looked like Clady for the first time this year. The bye week surely gave him time to finally get back to something resembling full health. The big difference, however, seemed to be that he wasn't pinching inside like he has so often this year. Clady had done an admirable job trying to provide support inside for Hochstein. Today he was free to man the corner. I saw several plays where Clady ran his man up-field like we have gotten used to seeing. Earlier in the season those rushers would have turned the corner and gotten to Orton.

The difference is really night and day. Beadles can clearly play at this level and his performance today was excellent.

The point being that the effect of this one change was huge (having McBath back on defense was also quite nice). This wasn't a team playing over it's head, it was a team that had it's full complement of talent on the offensive side of the ball for the first time this year.

We're not going to jump out to a lot of 35-0 leads, but I fully expect this offense to be MUCH more productive to finish the season. This should be treated not as a small victory, but a statement about the talent that this team has when everyone is actually healthy.

enjolras
11-14-2010, 11:18 PM
My god how do you edit the title?

SoCalBronco
11-14-2010, 11:18 PM
I too was encouraged by the line play. Having a healthy Ryan Harris in there makes a world of difference as we saw last year, too. Problem is, he just can't stay healthy. Props to Zane Beadles for looking real good at LG. No one has mentioned it but for the first time in awhile, Walton actually held his own pretty well, too.

We have to be realistic about the rookies on the line. It was never realistic that a couple mid rounders could come in and play decently from the word go. That just doesn't happen on the offensive line in Year 1 for a player, not even for first rounders in many cases. I'm glad they are showing some growth though, that's all you can really ask for. Also good to see Clady and Kuper looking like their normal badass selves too.

I still think Clancy Barone is a douche, but at least the line is starting to flash some serious cohesion and potential.

BroncoDoug
11-14-2010, 11:19 PM
My god how do you edit the title?

edit your original post and go to advanced post or whatever and change the title there

enjolras
11-14-2010, 11:21 PM
edit your original post and go to advanced post or whatever and change the title there

Grazie:)

Sassy
11-14-2010, 11:28 PM
My god how do you edit the title?

Edit and go to advanced...it will let you change it. (on your original post)

Sassy
11-14-2010, 11:29 PM
too late...ooops!

Jesterhole
11-15-2010, 06:42 AM
I wouldn't call it a fluke win either, but we got up on them really fast, and that puts a different dynamic on the game. The Cheaps had to abandon their running game before they even got to the 2nd half. Still, all that happened because we were beating the crap out of them, and I'll take that any day of the week.

Very interested to see if we can bring the same level next week against San Diego.

Drek
11-15-2010, 07:10 AM
I too was encouraged by the line play. Having a healthy Ryan Harris in there makes a world of difference as we saw last year, too. Problem is, he just can't stay healthy. Props to Zane Beadles for looking real good at LG. No one has mentioned it but for the first time in awhile, Walton actually held his own pretty well, too.

We have to be realistic about the rookies on the line. It was never realistic that a couple mid rounders could come in and play decently from the word go. That just doesn't happen on the offensive line in Year 1 for a player, not even for first rounders in many cases. I'm glad they are showing some growth though, that's all you can really ask for. Also good to see Clady and Kuper looking like their normal badass selves too.

I still think Clancy Barone is a douche, but at least the line is starting to flash some serious cohesion and potential.

Rookie OLs, even mid-rounders, do step in and have immediate success though. The Colts, Pats, Giants, etc. have all at various points over the last few years done very well by plugging in young lower draft pedigree OL guys.

They can't be relied upon too heavily though. They need to have time to gel with the rest of the line, they can't compose the majority of the OL, and they need some good veteran talent around to help out.

Walton's improvement is likely as much due to not having a black hole at LG next to him as his own progression. In fact, you could even attribute some of his early struggles to Kuper who obviously wasn't his '09 self early in this year.

Injuries to Clady, Kuper, and Harris coupled with a rookie at C is a bad recipe. When the guy we wanted at LG then has to play tackle while we rotate at LG the situation only got worse.

This was the first game with the OL McDaniels wanted to start the season and it was very impressive. Now they need to keep it up for the rest of the season and then in next year's draft he needs to get us a young swing tackle to develop for the inevitable Ryan Harris injury.

I wouldn't call it a fluke win either, but we got up on them really fast, and that puts a different dynamic on the game. The Cheaps had to abandon their running game before they even got to the 2nd half. Still, all that happened because we were beating the crap out of them, and I'll take that any day of the week.

Very interested to see if we can bring the same level next week against San Diego.

We got up on them really fast by dominating them though. This wasn't like the Raiders game where we gift wrapped two TDs for them in the first few minutes off turnovers. The Broncos lined up and took three straight TDs with three straight defensive stands without a single handout.

Rabb
11-15-2010, 07:15 AM
I don't want to start a thread on it because I might have just missed it in another one, or on the presser or something but was something wrong with Prater?

I was at the game and not only was he not kicking touchbacks for the most part...he looked terrible on the long field goal attempt. He was fine in pre game, I am wondering if he tweaked something.

Anyone know?

Otherwise, I couldn't be happier with yesterday....was so fun to be there for this one.

TheChamp24
11-15-2010, 07:27 AM
Maybe not necessarily a fluke win, but we aren't going to dominate like we did at the start again.
The defense still worries me, gotta see how they do against San Diego, but man we came to ball yesterday which was good to see.

baja
11-15-2010, 07:31 AM
Today was awesome, but I feel like it's really important to point out that what we saw today wasn't just a random fluke. This team looked dramatically improved (particularly on offense) and that really shouldn't be a surprise. All year I've been chirping about how incredibly god-awful Hochstein has been.

It's been just crystal clear to me, and it was driving me nuts. I figured I'd have to live with it as Beadles has spent most of his rookie season taking snaps at right tackle. Thankfully the bye week (and a finally healthy Harris) provided the chance for McDaniels to install Beadles at his natural position.

The difference was obvious from snap one. I just finished watching the game again, taking some time to zero in on the offensive line. I saw two things that really stood out.

1. Beadles did an outstanding job of sealing blocks. Hochstein has a bad habit of being slow off the ball. Beadles does not. He gets out of his stance and into position remarkably well. Our running game looked like a competent NFL running game largely because the left side of the line was setting holes and (in a first this year) providing cutback lanes when Knowshown needed them. The difference was obvious.

2. Clady looked like Clady for the first time this year. The bye week surely gave him time to finally get back to something resembling full health. The big difference, however, seemed to be that he wasn't pinching inside like he has so often this year. Clady had done an admirable job trying to provide support inside for Hochstein. Today he was free to man the corner. I saw several plays where Clady ran his man up-field like we have gotten used to seeing. Earlier in the season those rushers would have turned the corner and gotten to Orton.

<b>The difference is really night and day. Beadles can clearly play at this level and his performance today was excellent.</b>

The point being that the effect of this one change was huge (having McBath back on defense was also quite nice). This wasn't a team playing over it's head, it was a team that had it's full complement of talent on the offensive side of the ball for the first time this year.

<b>We're not going to jump out to a lot of 35-0 leads, but I fully expect this offense to be MUCH more productive to finish the season. This should be treated not as a small victory, but a statement about the talent that this team has when everyone is actually healthy.

This & this

Excellent post enjolras as usual.

TonyR
11-15-2010, 07:35 AM
I still think Clancy Barone is a douche...

Just curious what prompts this comment. First time the O-line they envisioned before the season played and it performed well.

baja
11-15-2010, 07:39 AM
Drek - We got up on them really fast by dominating them though. This wasn't like the Raiders game where we gift wrapped two TDs for them in the first few minutes off turnovers.<b> The Broncos lined up and took three straight TDs with three straight defensive stands without a single handout.

This is a very important point and brings me much joy to see.

rbackfactory80
11-15-2010, 08:10 AM
As long as we are going to have to rely on Harris we will always be inconsistent. As good as he can be we need to find his replacement.

TonyR
11-15-2010, 08:16 AM
The defense still worries me...

Agree. The defense was similar today to most of the season. The biggest difference, other than getting to the QB a few times which is huge, was when they were successful at getting some early stops the O responded with some scores. This D needs help from the O and they got it yesterday.

baja
11-15-2010, 08:19 AM
Agree. The defense was similar today to most of the season. The biggest difference, other than getting to the QB a few times which is huge, was when they were successful at getting some early stops the O responded with some scores. This D needs help from the O and they got it yesterday.

Agree. I suspect we will spend a lot of the coming draft on D.

Dedhed
11-15-2010, 08:47 AM
Rookie OLs, even mid-rounders, do step in and have immediate success though. The Colts, Pats, Giants, etc. have all at various points over the last few years done very well by plugging in young lower draft pedigree OL guys.I think there's a vast difference between plugging a rookie into a system that's been in place for years where every other player on the line knows the system, and what we've had to do on the OL this year. You have to remember that not only are there two rookies adjusting to the size, speed, and complexity of NFL defenses, all of the veterans are adjusting to a new scheme.

That's much different than the situations you mentioned involving the Colts, Pats, and Giants who are just plugging a new guy into a system.

They can't be relied upon too heavily though. They need to have time to gel with the rest of the line, they can't compose the majority of the OL, and they need some good veteran talent around to help out.All true, but as I mentioned before, the veteran talent here is also in a learning phase.

Walton's improvement is likely as much due to not having a black hole at LG next to him as his own progression. In fact, you could even attribute some of his early struggles to Kuper who obviously wasn't his '09 self early in this year.I agree again. I think the improvement in Walton is probably a combination of what you mentioned above, but also just the learning curve of everyone along the line, including Walton himself, Kuper, and Beadles.

I think the line has shown improvement throughout the season, and things appear to be starting to click. I still expect mistakes in the future, but today was a nice sign that we're headed in the right direction.

Injuries to Clady, Kuper, and Harris coupled with a rookie at C is a bad recipe. When the guy we wanted at LG then has to play tackle while we rotate at LG the situation only got worse.

This was the first game with the OL McDaniels wanted to start the season and it was very impressive. Now they need to keep it up for the rest of the season and then in next year's draft he needs to get us a young swing tackle to develop for the inevitable Ryan Harris injury.
Again, I agree, but I don't think it's as simple as just getting the combination right. Although I think this is certainly the best combination for us, I think there are a lot of things that are beginning to mesh on the OL.

Whatever it was, I liked seeing it. I'm surprised that Knowshon didn't faint at the sight of an actual running lane in the first quarter. It's the first time that's happened all year, and the OL was moving the line of scrimmage in the right direction.

Hopefully they continue to improve and days like yesterday become the norm around here.

Dedhed
11-15-2010, 08:52 AM
I don't want to start a thread on it because I might have just missed it in another one, or on the presser or something but was something wrong with Prater?
I wondered the same thing, and I did notice what looked like a wrap of some kind high on his right thigh.

Must not be serious if they thought he could hit a 55 yarder, but it clearly affected his power.

Smiling Assassin27
11-15-2010, 09:09 AM
We won't have the luxury of playing Matt Cassel every week though. The guy really is a putrid NFL qb, IMO. He is what he is--a top tier backup, a la Billy Volek--and has the ability to win NFL games but not play or win consistently.

Our next game must focus on getting Cassel to beat us. I'll say this--Champ has to be better, as he got ragdolled by Bowe much too often.

Pick Six
11-15-2010, 09:14 AM
I'd like to think that it's a sign of things to come. The team McDaniels envisioned at the beginning of the season is finally starting to be healthy. It may not be enough to win the AFC West, but I see encouraging signs...:thumbs:

broncosteven
11-15-2010, 09:15 AM
mCd said in his presser that they focused on FUNDAMENTALS all week and worked on minimizing penalties. Getting the OL healthy and executing what they practiced in TC really helped on both sides of the ball.

I hope this keeps up, this is the type of improvement that if done week in and week out could prove mCd is the boy genius that we were told he was. 4-14 was a tough stretch hopefully that is behind us now.

Smiling Assassin27
11-15-2010, 09:51 AM
mCd said in his presser that they focused on FUNDAMENTALS all week and worked on minimizing penalties. Getting the OL healthy and executing what they practiced in TC really helped on both sides of the ball.

I hope this keeps up, this is the type of improvement that if done week in and week out could prove mCd is the boy genius that we were told he was. 4-14 was a tough stretch hopefully that is behind us now.

qft. i'm all for 14-4 over the next 18...

Popps
11-15-2010, 09:54 AM
I'll say what I've said all season...

We're probably not as bad as people think.

Just like last year when we started 6-0 and I said that we probably weren't as good.


Again, a couple of plays go differently for us this season and we're .500 or better. This team has had a lot of adversity with injury, etc. But, it's nowhere near the disaster people were making it out to be. The Raiders game was a fluke, imo.

Yesterday looked more like what I've expected to see from this team. It wasn't perfect, but you saw us use our weapons effectively and take control of the game.

Imagine if Doom and Ayers were out there, too.

NFLBRONCO
11-15-2010, 10:14 AM
I'll say what I've said all season...

We're probably not as bad as people think.

Just like last year when we started 6-0 and I said that we probably weren't as good.


Again, a couple of plays go differently for us this season and we're .500 or better. This team has had a lot of adversity with injury, etc. But, it's nowhere near the disaster people were making it out to be. The Raiders game was a fluke, imo.

Yesterday looked more like what I've expected to see from this team. It wasn't perfect, but you saw us use our weapons effectively and take control of the game.

Imagine if Doom and Ayers were out there, too.


I think this games proves if we bring it even with our major flaws we can play well. I'm happy about OL maybe we can be more efficient on offense the rest of the way. I'd like to see this team play someone where we are behind 20-14 in the 4th qtr. Make plays in crunch time to pull out a win this is where we need to majorly improve.

jhns
11-15-2010, 10:20 AM
No win is a fluke in the NFL. That being said, we are 3-6 and only played well after an extra week off. Let's see it continue now.

bloodsunday
11-15-2010, 11:00 AM
I think there's a vast difference between plugging a rookie into a system that's been in place for years where every other player on the line knows the system, and what we've had to do on the OL this year. You have to remember that not only are there two rookies adjusting to the size, speed, and complexity of NFL defenses, all of the veterans are adjusting to a new scheme.

That's much different than the situations you mentioned involving the Colts, Pats, and Giants who are just plugging a new guy into a system.

Bingo! Because our systems are new, we don't have the proper depth we need. This is also true on defense. We need several drafts to acquire the kind of talent we need at LB so our pass rush is more than 1 guy. As soon as Dumervil went down, our entire pass rush went with him.

bloodsunday
11-15-2010, 11:04 AM
I'll say what I've said all season...

We're probably not as bad as people think.

Just like last year when we started 6-0 and I said that we probably weren't as good.


Again, a couple of plays go differently for us this season and we're .500 or better. This team has had a lot of adversity with injury, etc. But, it's nowhere near the disaster people were making it out to be. The Raiders game was a fluke, imo.

Good post. But that Raider game REALLY stung, losing like that to a team that has been so down for so long can really change the cards for everyone. It's going to take more than 1 win to get that out of our memory. McD is going to have to finish strong (at least 7 wins?) to keep people from going nuts. If he can win some division games down the stretch, I'll personally be much more optimistic on the future. I would be THRILLED to see this team finish strong in the face of adversity -- to the point that I would rather see that than see them back-door into the playoffs (but both would be nice!). I am so sick and tired of seeing this team fold in November and December.