MSNBC Host Calls For Potentially Violent Liberal Revolution

[epicSocialism4tw]

<EMBED height=385 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=640 src=http://www.youtube.com/v/PYD8SShKbnk?fs=1&hl=en_US allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>

Yikes, guy.

[JJJ]

You think he is going to donate the entire profits from his book to down and out cartoonists?

Two nuts in pod there.

[epicSocialism4tw]

You think he is going to donate the entire profits from his book to down and out cartoonists?

Two nuts in pod there.

I wonder if he has any cartoons in there about radical islamists?

[spdirty]

One of this dirtbag's cartoons. Worthless pos deserves a throatpunch a lot more than publicity for his book.

http://www.rall.com/uploaded_images/4-29-04-C-708763.jpg

[Requiem]

Lol.

[epicSocialism4tw]

One of this dirtbag's cartoons. Worthless pos deserves a throatpunch a lot more than publicity for his book.

http://www.rall.com/uploaded_images/4-29-04-C-708763.jpg

Disgusting.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Disgusting.

Actually, the only part that's not accurate or truthful (as far as I know) is the part that suggests he was itching to kill Arabs, or whatever.

The rest is pretty much right on the money - which is why it bothers you and your fellow cheerleaders for Daddy's Little War Criminal.

http://www.bartcop.com/bush-admits-war_criminal.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/dp-already-paid.jpg

[epicSocialism4tw]

Of course LABF has to bring his cartoonery into a thread containing a cartoon.

That's what LABF thinks of you all. He thinks that you're so stupid that you need to be told the issues through cartoons.

Yet he still avoided the topic.

LABF, why cant you address the reality that you and your party are the violent, threatening ones? The modern far left advocate the use of violence. That's not true of the Tea Party. Its certainly true of the modern far left.

[frerottenextelway]

Jftr, Ratigan is a self described conservatist.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Jftr, Ratigan is a self described conservatist.

Ha!

Yeah, because his ideas given in that video are soooo conservative. And the guy he's interviewing there is presenting such conservative ideas.

[frerottenextelway]

Ha!

Yeah, because his ideas given in that video are soooo conservative. And the guy he's interviewing there is presenting such conservative ideas.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/14/dylan-ratigan-i-consider-_n_716296.html

[epicSocialism4tw]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/14/dylan-ratigan-i-consider-_n_716296.html

So what about the ideas in the video makes you think that he is a conservative?

[Rohirrim]

Disgusting.

No different at all from what you slurp from Glenn Beck's crotch every day. Ha!

[epicSocialism4tw]

"From the wrongful wars to the corrupt economy, to the special interests to the six industries that control this country. The political system itself."

Then Ratigan goes on to endorse the authors extremist liberal book about using violence to overthrow the govt.

[Rohirrim]

http://www.bartcop.com/dp-already-paid.jpg

Bush wouldn't have the guts to ever even contemplate the results of his criminality. He's no different than that hag of a mother who thought the refugees of Katrina were "...doing better now." They remind me of the totally vacuous and out of touch royals of Britian. Bush has already proved his utter lack of consciousness by not only stating that he wouldn't have done anything different, but that his worse moment in the presidency was when Kanye West called him a racist. Can you believe the utter lack of character that proves? Wouldn't the average, empathetic, conscious individual think sending kids to war was the worst thing? Or seeing those caskets come back (which, of course, he tried to cover up). Or maybe those bodies of Americans floating face down in the Louisiana bayous? But no. What mattered to Bush was only the things that touched him, individually. Like his mother, he could give a **** what happens to anybody else. Bunch of ****ing sociopaths.

[frerottenextelway]

"From the wrongful wars to the corrupt economy, to the special interests to the six industries that control this country. The political system itself."

What part of that quote isn't tea party conservatism?

Also, the dude is from CNBC, the the bastion of conservatism, and is openly a conservative against the Democratic Party.

Sorry if that doesn't fit your narative.

[epicSocialism4tw]

What part of that quote isn't tea party conservatism?

Also, the dude is from CNBC, the the bastion of conservatism, and is openly a conservative against the Democratic Party.

Sorry if that doesn't fit your narative.

None of it is.

[frerottenextelway]

None of it is.

Whatever, that was basically Ron Paul's platform.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Whatever, that was basically Ron Paul's platform.

Ha!

Right.

Just do what you do, man. No need to make any sense.

[Garcia Bronco]

LOL....bring it.

[Obushma]

LOL....bring it.

Exactly my thoughts.

[frerottenextelway]

Ha!

Right.

Just do what you do, man. No need to make any sense.

Interview with Ratigan and Paul.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YH-UjDrYRqg?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YH-UjDrYRqg?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

"Congressman, I don't think anybody watching this show would disagree with a darn word you just said..."

I think that should end this convo.

[Rohirrim]

Like Jimmy Carter said on Bill Maher a couple of weeks ago, this country is more polarized right now than at any time but prior to the Civil War. Personally, I can't wait. ;D

[TonyR]

I think that should end this convo.

I notice they're disagreeing with you but none of them seem to be able to formulate a complete sentence to explain why...

[frerottenextelway]

I notice they're disagreeing with you but none of them seem to be able to formulate a complete sentence to explain why...

I'm guessing he never heard of Ratigan before he found this clip and assumed that since it was an MSNBC host that Ratigan was a liberal. Now, he is just being too stuborn to admit his entire narrative in this thread was backwards.

[TonyR]

Now, he is just being too stuborn to admit his entire narrative in this thread was backwards.

Much like how these nitwits were bashing Obama for his India vist but now even far right wingers like Krauthammer are praising it.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Interview with Ratigan and Paul.

"Congressman, I don't think anybody watching this show would disagree with a darn word you just said..."

I think that should end this convo.

Except for the fact that the show host is promoting a book about a liberal revolution with an author who is encouraging violent liberal revolution.

Nice sidestep, but you cant get away from the fact that the interview is specifically about a liberal revolution.

[TonyR]

Looks like Skillet has found something new to be ascared of: liberal revolutionaries! Be afraid, be very afraid! Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

[frerottenextelway]

Except for the fact that the show host is promoting a book about a liberal revolution with an author who is encouraging violent liberal revolution.

Nice sidestep, but you cant get away from the fact that the interview is specifically about a liberal revolution.

I didn't comment on the guest. I commented on the host, who is a conservative.

[Rohirrim]

Except for the fact that the show host is promoting a book about a liberal revolution with an author who is encouraging violent liberal revolution.

Nice sidestep, but you cant get away from the fact that the interview is specifically about a liberal revolution.


“Every generation needs a new revolution.” (Thomas Jefferson)

[The Lone Bolt]

Actually, the only part that's not accurate or truthful (as far as I know) is the part that suggests he was itching to kill Arabs, or whatever.

The rest is pretty much right on the money - which is why it bothers you and your fellow cheerleaders for Daddy's Little War Criminal.

What bothers me is what Tilman's family thought when they read Rall's cartoon.

It wasn't just insensitive, it was downright sadistic. Rall is a complete creep.

[epicSocialism4tw]

“Every generation needs a new revolution.” (Thomas Jefferson)

Wow.

And Rohirrim has been the first to line up to kill his own fellow citizens because they want to be able to keep some of their money.

Unbelievable.

You've gone over the edge.

[TailgateNut]

Wow.

And Rohirrim has been the first to line up to kill his own fellow citizens because they want to be able to keep some of their money.

Unbelievable.

You've gone over the edge.




I've said it before, and will say it again, it's just around the corner.

[Rohirrim]

Wow.

And Rohirrim has been the first to line up to kill his own fellow citizens because they want to be able to keep some of their money.

Unbelievable.

You've gone over the edge.

You sound just like Palin. That's her favorite little trick. Actually, it's pretty much her only trick (and one of the favorite tricks of the fascist right). She mischaracterizes, or simply lies, about something her opponent has said, and then she attacks the lie as if it were the truth. I'm not surprised at all that such an ethically deformed individual such as yourself would resort to such a tactic. It's instructive how the Right Wing mouthpieces have indulged in these kinds of propaganda tactics for years and now their little troglodyte followers, like you, are picking up on their methods.

Of course, a person with an actual molecule of intelligence and honor would be able to defend their points straight up. But when your ideology is a lie, you must use dishonest tactics to defend it.

[epicSocialism4tw]

You sound just like Palin. That's her favorite little trick. Actually, it's pretty much her only trick (and one of the favorite tricks of the fascist right). She mischaracterizes, or simply lies, about something her opponent has said, and then she attacks the lie as if it were the truth. I'm not surprised at all that such an ethically deformed individual such as yourself would resort to such a tactic. It's instructive how the Right Wing mouthpieces have indulged in these kinds of propaganda tactics for years and now their little troglodyte followers, like you, are picking up on their methods.

Of course, a person with an actual molecule of intelligence and honor would be able to defend their points straight up. But when your ideology is a lie, you must use dishonest tactics to defend it.

Mr. Civil War advocate is bringing the togetherness today.

Nice.

Do us all a favor and take your civil war to France, where you wont have to kill everybody to make yourself comfortable.

[Rohirrim]

Mr. Civil War advocate is bringing the togetherness today.

Nice.

Do us all a favor and take your civil war to France, where you wont have to kill everybody to make yourself comfortable.

Freedom sometimes demands blood. I see this country slipping toward fascism. Every true American should be willing to stand up and fight that. Just as we fought fascism in Europe 65 years ago.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Bush wouldn't have the guts to ever even contemplate the results of his criminality. He's no different than that hag of a mother who thought the refugees of Katrina were "...doing better now." They remind me of the totally vacuous and out of touch royals of Britian. Bush has already proved his utter lack of consciousness by not only stating that he wouldn't have done anything different, but that his worse moment in the presidency was when Kanye West called him a racist. Can you believe the utter lack of character that proves? Wouldn't the average, empathetic, conscious individual think sending kids to war was the worst thing? Or seeing those caskets come back (which, of course, he tried to cover up). Or maybe those bodies of Americans floating face down in the Louisiana bayous? But no. What mattered to Bush was only the things that touched him, individually. Like his mother, he could give a **** what happens to anybody else. Bunch of ****ing sociopaths.

This.

And the Smirking Sociopath's supporters are just as vacuous and morally stunted as Bush himself.

Had these smug, self-righteous little Marie Antoinettes lived during the time of the American revolution, they'd have derided the revolutionaries "a bunch of far-left whackos" and would have told them to "quit whining."

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

What bothers me is what Tilman's family thought when they read Rall's cartoon.

It wasn't just insensitive, it was downright sadistic. Rall is a complete creep.

You have some sort of first-hand knowledge re: the family's thoughts?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

That's what LABF thinks of you Bush cheerleaders. He thinks that you're so stupid that you need to be told the issues through cartoons.



Fixed. :welcome:

[The Lone Bolt]

You have some sort of first-hand knowledge re: the family's thoughts?

How would you feel if someone you loved died, you were devistated and heartbroken over the loss, and then somebody came up to your face and said "your (son/brother/friend) was a sucker and a chump who died for Big Oil! Not only that he was a sadistic pig who only joned the military to kill Arabs!"?

That's essentially what Rall did, and with absolutely NO concern or sensitivity for the grieving family. What a piece of dirt. Whether or not I have any knowledge of how the family actually reacted is irrelevant.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

How would you feel if someone you loved died, you were devistated and heartbroken over the loss, and then somebody came up to your face and said "your (son/brother/friend) was a sucker and a chump who died for Big Oil! Not only that he was a sadistic pig who only joned the military to kill Arabs!"?


That's just the sort of spin I would expect from a defender of the Bush Crime Family like you.

The cartoon is less an attempt to satirize Tillman than an indictment of the government (read: Bush Crime Family) that lied to him and abused his trust.

http://www.bartcop.com/bush-admits-war_criminal.jpg

[The Lone Bolt]

That's just the sort of spin I would expect from a defender of the Bush Crime Family like you.

The cartoon is less an attempt to satirize Tillman than an indictment of the government (read: Bush Crime Family) that lied to him and abused his trust.

So you support what Rall did? It's OK with you that he deliberately vilified and insulted the memory of Tillman publicly with no regard for the grief of his loved ones? You're OK with that? Really?

Please don't tell me you are.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

So you support what Rall did? It's OK with you that he deliberately vilified and insulted the memory of Tillman publicly with no regard for the grief of his loved ones? You're OK with that? Really?

Please don't tell me you are.

You really think it was an attempt to "villify" Tillman (as opposed to an indictment of the government that screwed him?)

Get real! :oyvey:

I know your foremost priority in life is to defend Daddy's Little War Criminal, but c'mon!

[The Lone Bolt]

You really think it was an attempt to "villify" Tillman (as opposed to an indictment of the government that screwed him?)

Get real! :oyvey:

I know your foremost priority in life is to defend Daddy's Little War Criminal, but c'mon!


In the cartoon Tillman is portrayed as saying "Will I get to kill Arabs?" and "Museums? Let 'em BURN!"

And other characters calling Tillman "sap" and "idiot."

What do you think his greiving friends and relatives thought when they read that? Do you think they thought "well golly, Rall is just satirizing the bush admin"?

Look, I know you're full of hate for bush, but don't be an a**hole.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Disgusting.
Ha! You idiot, I've been watching this Right Wing nut for years on Bloomberg and CNBC.
And you thought you found a "crazy liberal" ......ROFL!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

In the cartoon Tillman is portrayed as saying "Will I get to kill Arabs?"

I already identified this as the one questionable attribution.


and "Museums? Let 'em BURN!"

Wrong.

Another character is saying this - not Tillman.

And other characters calling Tillman "sap" and "idiot."

Emphasis on "other characters," which, in this case, happen to be TV news people. In other words, the cartoonist is making fun of the talking heads - not Tillman.

What do you think his greiving friends and relatives thought when they read that? Do you think they thought "well golly, Rall is just satirizing the bush admin"?

I'd like to believe Tillman's friends and relatives are more concerned with holding the parties responsible (read: the Bush Crime Family) for Tillman's death accountable than some cartoon.

Look, I know you're full of hate for bush, but don't be an a**hole.

There you go again with the standard Bush apologist spin in which calls for accountability are reduced to personal "hatred."

It's disturbing that an individual who is as clearly stunted in his moral development as you is allowed to work in the mental health field. Yikes!

[The Lone Bolt]

I already identified this as the one questionable attribution.



Wrong.

Another character is saying this - not Tillman.



Emphasis on "other characters," which, in this case, happen to be TV news people. In other words, the cartoonist is making fun of the talking heads - not Tillman.



I'd like to believe Tillman's friends and relatives are more concerned with holding the parties responsible (read: the Bush Crime Family) for Tillman's death accountable than some cartoon.



There you go again with the standard Bush apologist spin in which calls for accountability are reduced to personal "hatred."

It's disturbing that an individual who is as clearly stunted in his moral development as you is allowed to work in the mental health field. Yikes!

Wow, what a spectacular exhibition of denial and rationalization.

It is TRULY disturbing to me that you defend Rall's vicious, a-hole cartoon. He's a mean-spirited, insensitive scumbag and I'm beginning to think you are too.

[mhgaffney]

Wow.

And Rohirrim has been the first to line up to kill his own fellow citizens because they want to be able to keep some of their money.

Unbelievable.

You've gone over the edge.

McSkippit has never heard of Jefferson or the Declaration of Independence.

His ignorance of his own history is as complete as his ignorance about what Jesus really taught.

[mhgaffney]

Lone Bolt shows again that he lost a nut.

Where's the concern about the out of control war machine that killed Tillman?

It was not terrorists or the Taliban, it was the US military -- which can't shoot straight.

[The Lone Bolt]

Lone Bolt shows again that he lost a nut.

Where's the concern about the out of control war machine that killed Tillman?

It was not terrorists or the Taliban, it was the US military -- which can't shoot straight.

So that makes Rall's pissing on Tillman's grieving family OK?

[mhgaffney]

The Tillman family don't give a hoot about Rall.

Rall did not kill their son, after all.

Their anger is focused on the Pentagon -- which lied about their son's death and perpetrated a cover up.

You don't know this?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The Tillman family don't give a hoot about Rall.

Rall did not kill their son, after all.

Their anger is focused on the Pentagon -- which lied about their son's death and perpetrated a cover up.

You don't know this?

Ding ding ding! Winner.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Where's the concern about the out of control war machine that killed Tillman?

It was not terrorists or the Taliban, it was the US military -- which can't shoot straight.

That would be the same war machine Lone Bolt has been defending since day one.

No wonder he feels such a profound need to displace the blame to some cartoonist.

[Atwater 27]

Freedom sometimes demands blood. I see this country slipping toward fascism. Every true American should be willing to stand up and fight that. Just as we fought fascism in Europe 65 years ago.

Right on guy! So you are on our side now! Fight the fascists! So what do we start with... blowing up the fed or capping George Soros?

[Atwater 27]

MSNBC Host Calls For Potentially Violent Liberal Revolution


Violent Liberal Revolution? Is that a joke? The only violence they are capable of being any good at is killing babies. Now killing adults.... that's a little harder.

Either way, the thought of liberals running around with guns makes me laugh til I drop. Matter of fact, they might kill a few of their 'enemies' right off that bat because they were too busy laughing and pointing.

[The Lone Bolt]

The Tillman family don't give a hoot about Rall.

Rall did not kill their son, after all.

Their anger is focused on the Pentagon -- which lied about their son's death and perpetrated a cover up.

You don't know this?

So that makes Rall's pissing on Tillman's grieving family OK?

[Atwater 27]

So that makes Rall's pissing on Tillman's grieving family OK?

No it doesn't... Dude, you are arguing with these guys as if they have morals, compassion and reasoning skills... They don't.

[The Lone Bolt]

No it doesn't... Dude, you are arguing with these guys as if they have morals, compassion and reasoning skills... They don't.

Ding ding ding! Winner.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Ding ding ding! Winner.
Ha! Agreeing with that stereotyping, Right Wing radical doesn't say much for you.

[Atwater 27]

Ha! Agreeing with that stereotyping, Right Wing radical doesn't say much for you.

Ha! Being a stereotyping, Left Wing radical doesn't say much for you.:clown:

[epicSocialism4tw]

Freedom sometimes demands blood. I see this country slipping toward fascism. Every true American should be willing to stand up and fight that. Just as we fought fascism in Europe 65 years ago.

When you are on the same side of an issue as gaffney as you both advocate killing your own people for the advancement of your ideology, you must know that you are slipping toward the depraved.

[epicSocialism4tw]

No it doesn't... Dude, you are arguing with these guys as if they have morals, compassion and reasoning skills... They don't.

Sad but true.

Liberalism has become a philosophy of its own where morals are relative to whatever they need to do to seize power from their fellow citizens.

Its literally no different than the extremist muslim practice of lying to infidels because they stand in the way of the theocracy.

[The Lone Bolt]

Sad but true.

Liberalism has become a philosophy of its own where morals are relative to whatever they need to do to seize power from their fellow citizens.

Its literally no different than the extremist muslim practice of lying to infidels because they stand in the way of the theocracy.

I don't see Rall's cartoon as a political issue at all. I see it as an issue of showing appropriate empathy and compassion for those experiencing heartwrenching grief and loss.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I don't see Rall's cartoon as a political issue at all. I see it as an issue of showing appropriate empathy and compassion for those experiencing heartwrenching grief and loss.

That would be true if other lberal hypocrisies of the same nature were not so common.

The far left has become a place where vicious, violent philosophies have been nurtured and propagated. They have co-opted extremist groups who want absolute control of the party and have thus taken control of their narrative. Rall is one of these types. Much like Van Jones, Rev. Wright, Bernadine Dorn, and Bill Ayers. They speak hate and destruction.

[TonyR]

...Much like Van Jones, Rev. Wright, Bernadine Dorn, and Bill Ayers.

Assuming these fringe dwellers in any way speak or act for progressives proves once again that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. But then most of us already knew that. Keep spouting your twisted, foolish, paranoid views and we'll keep laughing.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Assuming these fringe dwellers in any way speak or act for progressives proves once again that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. But then most of us already knew that. Keep spouting your twisted, foolish, paranoid views and we'll keep laughing.

All of them have been advisors to the President of the United States.

Explain that away.

[Drek]

Sad but true.

Liberalism has become a philosophy of its own where morals are relative to whatever they need to do to seize power from their fellow citizens.

Its literally no different than the extremist muslim practice of lying to infidels because they stand in the way of the theocracy.

Do you actually understand what liberalism means?

Seriously, you misuse the word nearly every post.

Liberalism from an economic standpoint is a system as free of regulation as possible, i.e. true free market economics. Liberalism from the social standpoint espouses individual liberties above all else.

Stop ass ****ing the English language.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Do you actually understand what liberalism means?

Seriously, you misuse the word nearly every post.

Liberalism from an economic standpoint is a system as free of regulation as possible, i.e. true free market economics. Liberalism from the social standpoint espouses individual liberties above all else.

Stop ass ****ing the English language.

It would be nice if you could read, or at least show us that you understand what you read.

I specifically said that liberalism had become something, inferring that it has changed from what it previously was. "Liberal" now describes something much different than it did in the 1950's, where your definition would be appropriate. Liberalism now refers to social liberalism moreso than it does economic liberalism, and does NOT espouse personal liberties any longer (as is evidenced by the anti-McDonalds, anti-smoking, anti-salt, anti-religion campaigns, etc.). Modern liberalism is inherently stifling. It has become the self-imposed voice of the mother in the Nanny State.

If you werent able to understand that, then you clearly missed the point.

Dont be upset at me when its your own people who have warped the definition to mean something thats different than what its supposed to mean. Your party has made a habit of doing that to many things in our culture. Where you warp the word "choice" to disguise the fact that you are killing babies. You warp the word "progress" to disguise the fact that you are trying to usurp the republic and replace it with federalist socialism. You warp the word "citizens" to disguise the fact that you have a union-powered machine that votes as a corporate body. You warp the word "charity" to disguise political organizations. Its literally a political tactic of your party to manipulate language, and has been since the radical movement of the 60's.

Your party has literally made a science of taking the language of US culture and warping it to hide your true intentions.

[bpc]

Liberals are weak, hence why they currently hide and linger in shadows. They would come out on the very wrong end of a revolution. They won't do anything until their numbers are boosted.

Granting amnesty to millions of illegal aliens ring any bells?

[Drek]

It would be nice if you could read, or at least show us that you understand what you read.

I specifically said that liberalism had become something, inferring that it has changed from what it previously was. "Liberal" now describes something much different than it did in the 1950's, where your definition would be appropriate. Liberalism now refers to social liberalism moreso than it does economic liberalism, and does NOT espouse personal liberties any longer (as is evidenced by the anti-McDonalds, anti-smoking, anti-salt, anti-religion campaigns, etc.). Modern liberalism is inherently stifling. It has become the self-imposed voice of the mother in the Nanny State.
That isn't liberalism. Again, stop using the word incorrectly.

Also, the "Nanny State" mythology has been perpetrated by right win ideologues who happen to also be the same people trying to subvert the real meaning of the word "liberal".

You just happen to be one of the complicit sheep buying into the poisoning of a word that used to encapsulate this nation's highest ideal.

If you werent able to understand that, then you clearly missed the point.
No, I got your point. I'm just showing how it doesn't make any sense within the real meaning of the English language.

Dont be upset at me when its your own people who have warped the definition to mean something thats different than what its supposed to mean. Your party has made a habit of doing that to many things in our culture. Where you warp the word "choice" to disguise the fact that you are killing babies. You warp the word "progress" to disguise the fact that you are trying to usurp the republic and replace it with federalist socialism. You warp the word "citizens" to disguise the fact that you have a union-powered machine that votes as a corporate body. You warp the word "charity" to disguise political organizations. Its literally a political tactic of your party to manipulate language, and has been since the radical movement of the 60's.

Your party has literally made a science of taking the language of US culture and warping it to hide your true intentions.
My people? Damn doesn't that ever sound like bigoted stereotyping.

I'm guessing you're a big Glenn Beck fan. This is the same snake oil he sells on a daily basis. He takes a word, poisons it with his own "definition" and repeats it enough so his audience assumes its truth. Then he shows the political opposition using that word in appropriate context but his audience has been so poisoned by his twisted definitions that they swallow his conspiracies by the spoonful. Then call Gold Line and give them half their life savings.

Apply some intellectual rigor and help take back the English language. Do not let terms like "liberal" continue to be twisted into its polar opposite within the American lexicon.

[Drek]

Liberals are weak, hence why they currently hide and linger in shadows. They would come out on the very wrong end of a revolution. They won't do anything until their numbers are boosted.

Granting amnesty to millions of illegal aliens ring any bells?

Liberals freed this nation from British imperialism.

Also, amnesty for illegal aliens is pet project of both the extreme right and extreme left. The left because they believe everyone deserves a hug and a turn on their wife's pussy, the right because they believe themselves to be entitled to the sweat of any man's brow they can con or blackmail into working for sub-human wages. Oh, and for a turn on his wife's pussy.

Its an exploitation mindset. The extreme left wants to be exploited to "make amends" for the historic exploitation of minorities in this country while the extreme right sees another minority ripe for exploitation.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

So that makes Rall's pissing on Tillman's grieving family OK?

Holy crap - how many times are you going to repeat this distortion?

I know, I know.....until it becomes "truth." :oyvey:

[The Lone Bolt]

Holy crap - how many times are you going to repeat this distortion?

I know, I know.....until it becomes "truth." :oyvey:

I suppose when you lack compassion and empathy you would have a hard time understanding. Really are you that completely freakin' clueless?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Ha! Being a stereotyping, Left Wing radical doesn't say much for you.:clown:Ignorance seems to suit you well. How come you didn't comment on the "Right Winger" this thread was started for?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Granting amnesty to millions of illegal aliens ring any bells?Another ignorant, uneducated Right Wing shill chiming in. It was originally a Bush initiative that called for amnesty Einstein.

[mhgaffney]

Liberals freed this nation from British imperialism.

Also, amnesty for illegal aliens is pet project of both the extreme right and extreme left. The left because they believe everyone deserves a hug and a turn on their wife's p***Y, the right because they believe themselves to be entitled to the sweat of any man's brow they can con or blackmail into working for sub-human wages. Oh, and for a turn on his wife's p***Y.

Its an exploitation mindset. The extreme left wants to be exploited to "make amends" for the historic exploitation of minorities in this country while the extreme right sees another minority ripe for exploitation.

I'd have to disagree with you on this, Drek.

The American revolutionaries were radicals -- not liberals. Liberals don't have the stomach for revolution.

But the values of the enlightenment shone through it all -- and those are -- I agree -- mostly liberal values.

[Drek]

I'd have to disagree with you on this, Drek.

The American revolutionaries were radicals -- not liberals. Liberals don't have the stomach for revolution.

But the values of the enlightenment shone through it all -- and those are -- I agree -- mostly liberal values.

The entire concept they were fighting for defines the economic and social agenda of liberalism. Therefore they were liberals.

[mhgaffney]

Do you know one liberal today who would risk his life and fortune for those values -- in the same way as our founding fathers?

I don't.

[bpc]

Another ignorant, uneducated Right Wing shill chiming in. It was originally a Bush initiative that called for amnesty Einstein.

Progressive weirdos are both R's and D's. They all should be cut down at their political knees.

I'm a conservative and that leans to the right so call me whatever you like. I'm not afraid to vote for a democrat or independent if he stood for the principles, policies, ideas and things I believe in.

Just because you lack the capacity to vote outside of a box, doesn't mean everybody does.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I suppose when you lack compassion and empathy you would have a hard time understanding. Really are you that completely freakin' clueless?

As demonstrated previously, you are the clueless one here insofar as you don't seem to understand that (a) the cartoon is an indictment of the Bush crime syndicate that sent Tillman to his death, and (b) Tillman's friends and relatives are more interested in accountability for the aforementioned crime syndicate than some silly cartoon.

The way you are trying to deflect blame for Tillman's death from the guilty parties onto some cartoonist is shameful!

[bpc]

Liberals freed this nation from British imperialism.

Also, amnesty for illegal aliens is pet project of both the extreme right and extreme left. The left because they believe everyone deserves a hug and a turn on their wife's p***Y, the right because they believe themselves to be entitled to the sweat of any man's brow they can con or blackmail into working for sub-human wages. Oh, and for a turn on his wife's p***Y.

Its an exploitation mindset. The extreme left wants to be exploited to "make amends" for the historic exploitation of minorities in this country while the extreme right sees another minority ripe for exploitation.

What the **** are you ranting about? A turn on somebody's wife's pussy? Really? This is your argument? Damn you're dumb.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Progressive weirdos are both R's and D's.

Ha!

Wow.

Looks like someone needs help with the basic concepts and terms.

[Requiem]

Ha!

Wow.

Looks like someone needs help with the basic concepts and terms.

Must have been another liner he learned from Beck after his assault on Scott Brown. Hilarious!

[epicSocialism4tw]

As demonstrated previously, you are the clueless one here insofar as you don't seem to understand that (a) the cartoon is an indictment of the Bush crime syndicate that sent Tillman to his death, and (b) Tillman's friends and relatives are more interested in accountability for the aforementioned crime syndicate than some silly cartoon.

The way you are trying to deflect blame for Tillman's death from the guilty parties onto some cartoonist is shameful!

You are shameless.

[The Lone Bolt]

As demonstrated previously, you are the clueless one here insofar as you don't seem to understand that (a) the cartoon is an indictment of the Bush crime syndicate that sent Tillman to his death, and (b) Tillman's friends and relatives are more interested in accountability for the aforementioned crime syndicate than some silly cartoon.

The way you are trying to deflect blame for Tillman's death from the guilty parties onto some cartoonist is shameful!

1) Nobody is trying to blame a cartoonist for Tillman's death. The cartoon came out AFTER Tillman died you idiot.

2) If you don't understand how mean and thoughtless Rall's cartoon was you are either:

a) a completely insensitive a**hole,
b) socially retarded, or
c) both.

Take your pick.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I'm a conservative and that leans to the right so call me whatever you like. I'm not afraid to vote for a democrat or independent if he stood for the principles, policies, ideas and things I believe in.

Right, that's why you brought up "amnesty" thinking it was a "Left" idea.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

1) Nobody is trying to blame a cartoonist for Tillman's death. The cartoon came out AFTER Tillman died you idiot.

That wasn't the point, dumb sh*t.

The point was that you give the war criminal whose policies put Tillman in harm's way a free pass and then have the audacity to criticize some cartoonist for a perceived lack of respect for Tillman.

Hypocritical much?

2) If you don't understand how mean and thoughtless Rall's cartoon was you are either:

a) a completely insensitive a**hole,
b) socially retarded, or
c) both.

Take your pick.

If you don't understand that the cartoon was more an indictment of Bush and his minions than an attempt to satirize Tillman's death, then you are either (a) mentally retarded, or (b) you've been wearing those monogrammed 'W' knee pads for so long you can no longer tell which end is up.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You are shameless.

Says the unrepentant apologist for a war criminal who sent thousands of Americans to their deaths on lies and fabricated "intelligence."

You're the official poster boy for shamelessness.

[Drek]

Do you know one liberal today who would risk his life and fortune for those values -- in the same way as our founding fathers?

I don't.
That is because you use the wrong definition of the word "liberal". It isn't one side of the partisan coin we're sold through the 24 hr. cable news cycle. It is the highest ideal of this nation.

What the **** are you ranting about? A turn on somebody's wife's p***Y? Really? This is your argument? Damn you're dumb.

You obviously missed the point.

Talk of amnesty exists on the far edges of each political extreme. The reason it exists there is because the two far extremes hold diametrically opposed views on what amnesty means but desire the same end result. The far left sees it as their penance for generations of minority subjugation in this nation. The far right sees another minority fit to be subjugated. One actually wants to be exploited to assuage their conscience while the other wants to exploit for the sake of their bank accounts.

Both are insane and anti-American, but the far fringes have a disproportionate share of the political power in this country.

[The Lone Bolt]

That wasn't the point, dumb sh*t.

The point was that you give the war criminal whose policies put Tillman in harm's way a free pass and then have the audacity to criticize some cartoonist for a perceived lack of respect for Tillman.

Hypocritical much?



If you don't understand that the cartoon was more an indictment of Bush and his minions than an attempt to satirize Tillman's death, then you are either (a) mentally retarded, or (b) you've been wearing those monogrammed 'W' knee pads for so long you can no longer tell which end is up.

Jesus H Christ you f-cking IDIOT!!! I doesn't MATTER what the cartoon was "meant to be"! What matters is the LACK OF SENSITIVITY TO TILLMAN'S LOVED ONES! Are you really that f-cking RETARDED??

What Rall did was CRUEL AND INSENSITIVE, but you think it's Okee-Dokee because, in your mind, it criticizes bush. As long as Rall takes shots at bush you and he don't care who gets hurt. That's the problem dumb*ss!

[The Lone Bolt]

Look LA, it's clear you're socially retarded, so I'll try to explain this in terms that even you might understand.

Imagine for a moment you're Tillman's mother. Your son has just died in combat. The son that you loved and nurtured and were proud of is dead. You are heartbroken -- devastated. You can't sleep. You can't eat. You cry all the time, sometimes for no apparent reason. You hurt deeply, with a pain that feels like someone ripped out part of your soul.

Then you find yourself in a local grocery store and you pick up the local independent. Flip though a few pages and there it is -- a cartoon about your son. It portrays your son as a thug who joined the military just to kill Arabs. It features characters calling your son a "sap" and an "idiot". One other character, which could also be your son, appears to be cruelly directing the destruction of museums in Iraq.

But most of all, the cartoon says your son died for nothing. Worse really, it implies that your son sacrificed his life to further evil in the world.

If you were Tillman's mother, and you read that, wouldn't you be upset?

Would it matter what Rall's intent was?

Please tell me you are not so socially retarded that you don't get this.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Look LA, it's clear you're socially retarded, so I'll try to explain this in terms that even you might understand.

Imagine for a moment you're Tillman's mother. Your son has just died in combat. The son that you loved and nurtured and were proud of is dead. You are heartbroken -- devastated. You can't sleep. You can't eat. You cry all the time, sometimes for no apparent reason. You hurt deeply, with a pain that feels like someone ripped out part of your soul.

Then you find yourself in a local grocery store and you pick up the local independent. Flip though a few pages and there it is -- a cartoon about your son. It portrays your son as a thug who joined the military just to kill Arabs. It features characters calling your son a "sap" and an "idiot". One other character, which could also be your son, appears to be cruelly directing the destruction of museums in Iraq.

But most of all, the cartoon says your son died for nothing. Worse really, it implies that your son sacrificed his life to further evil in the world.

If you were Tillman's mother, and you read that, wouldn't you be upset?

Would it matter what Rall's intent was?

Please tell me you are not so socially retarded that you don't get this.

I wouldnt expect him to get it, dude.

[Atwater 27]

Jesus H Christ you f-cking IDIOT!!! Are you really that f-cking RETARDED??



When it comes to LABF, the answer is a resounding YES!

[mhgaffney]

Lone Bolt,

Your posts justify your avatar reduction to Lone Nut. Loose Nut etc

Who cares if the cartoon was insensitive? It's a trifle -- compared with the killing by the US military of Pat Tillman, then the cover up, the lying etc.

The Tillman family is correct to aim their anger at the Pentagon -- not some silly cartoon.

Your obsession with trifles and irrelevancies is typical of so many dumbed down Americans.

Lone Nut indeed.

[The Lone Bolt]

Lone Bolt,

Your posts justify your avatar reduction to Lone Nut. Loose Nut etc

Who cares if the cartoon was insensitive? It's a trifle -- compared with the killing by the US military of Pat Tillman, then the cover up, the lying etc.

The Tillman family is correct to aim their anger at the Pentagon -- not some silly cartoon.

Your obsession with trifles and irrelevancies is typical of so many dumbed down Americans.

Lone Nut indeed.

Who cares? You should. This is no trifle.

I grant you that the Tillman family has every right to also be upset at the Pentagon for covering up the way he died. But that doesn't excuse Rall's insensitivity.

[mhgaffney]

OK OK OK OK

A cartoonist may be insensitive. But isn't this protected by the first amendment? (or was.)

It's the war policy that's evil. Focus on what's important.

Forget the rest.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Jesus H Christ you f-cking IDIOT!!! I doesn't MATTER what the cartoon was "meant to be"! What matters is the LACK OF SENSITIVITY TO TILLMAN'S LOVED ONES! Are you really that f-cking RETARDED??

What Rall did was CRUEL AND INSENSITIVE, but you think it's Okee-Dokee because, in your mind, it criticizes bush. As long as Rall takes shots at bush you and he don't care who gets hurt. That's the problem dumb*ss!

Ha ha ha! :laugh:

I can tell by the way you're foaming at the pie hole here that my observations about you were right on target.

You feign outrage over a cartoon which, in your perception, is insensitive to Tillman - yet you are an unrepentant apologist for the war criminal (and the policies) responsible for Tillman's death.

THAT is socially retarded.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Lone Bolt,

Your posts justify your avatar reduction to Lone Nut. Loose Nut etc

Who cares if the cartoon was insensitive? It's a trifle -- compared with the killing by the US military of Pat Tillman, then the cover up, the lying etc.

The Tillman family is correct to aim their anger at the Pentagon -- not some silly cartoon.

Your obsession with trifles and irrelevancies is typical of so many dumbed down Americans.

Lone Nut indeed.

Exactly.

LoneNutjob has already demonstrated that he can't even make his "case" without misrepresenting the content and the intent of the cartoon in question.

Bottom line: LoneNutjob has been a shill for the policies that got Tillman and thousands of other soldiers killed and maimed since the outset.

This latest soapbox by LoneNutjob is nothing more than a thinly-veiled attempt to transfer his own shame and guilt for his complicity in Bush's war policies onto some cartoonist.

[Requiem]

I thought the cartoon was hilarious. I'll let you guys be the judge and take the moral high ground if you like.

[The Lone Bolt]

Exactly.

LoneNutjob has already demonstrated that he can't even make his "case" without misrepresenting the content and the intent of the cartoon in question.

Bottom line: LoneNutjob has been a shill for the policies that got Tillman and thousands of other soldiers killed and maimed since the outset.

This latest soapbox by LoneNutjob is nothing more than a thinly-veiled attempt to transfer his own shame and guilt for his complicity in Bush's war policies onto some cartoonist.

:oyvey:

Just when I though you couldn't be an even bigger idiot...

[JJJ]

Freedom sometimes demands blood. I see this country slipping toward fascism. Every true American should be willing to stand up and fight that. Just as we fought fascism in Europe 65 years ago.

I guess you will be sitting down for awhile. Hard to shoot straight while hugging a tree though.

The left knows nothing, absolutely nothing about freedom. It is a concept completely lost on them.

I will agree this country is slipping towards fascism. Obama is the closest thing to a fascist this country has seen in a very long time. He is trying to merge government and industry into one just like AH. His goal is to control business via the government. Can't get any more fascist than that. If you don't see it you are blind.

[mhgaffney]

Obama control business? You must be kidding.

You have it exactly back wards. (You can't go any farther wrong than that.)

no, Obama gets his marching orders from Wall Street. Of course, Wall Street also controls Congress whenever they need/want to.

Wall Street also back Republicans -- as in the recent election.

US politics is like a casino -- where the house (Wall Street) always wins. They control how the game is played.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

:oyvey:

Just when I though you couldn't be an even bigger idiot...

There you go getting it bass-ackwards again.

Anyone who reads this thread can see where you tried to misrepresent the content and the intent of the cartoon.

And anyone who has been reading this forum for any length of time knows that when it comes to apologists and water carriers for the Bush Doctrine, you're without peer.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You have it exactly back wards.

:yep:

99.9% of the time, it seems.

That's what makes JJJ and his buddies the regressives they are.

[Atwater 27]

Back to topic... I wanna hear some more about violent liberal revolution.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

:oyvey:

Just when I though you couldn't be an even bigger idiot...

http://www.bartcop.com/kanye-feeling-bad.jpg

[Atwater 27]

Oh look! More gay cartoons.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Oh look! More gay cartoons.

This in response to a cartoon about Bush.

DS49 shows us that even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Ha!

[TonyR]

I will agree this country is slipping towards fascism. Obama is the closest thing to a fascist this country has seen in a very long time.

LOL Where do you people come up with this stuff? You're like living, breathing caricatures.

[Rohirrim]

I guess you will be sitting down for awhile. Hard to shoot straight while hugging a tree though.

Ah, the "conservation is evil" meme. I guess what started with Republican Teddy Roosevelt is now an evil, Marxist plot. Ha!

The left knows nothing, absolutely nothing about freedom. It is a concept completely lost on them.

I doubt you could find a reputable political scientist or historian who wouldn't argue that the Founders of this country were all leftists.

I will agree this country is slipping towards fascism. Obama is the closest thing to a fascist this country has seen in a very long time. He is trying to merge government and industry into one just like AH. His goal is to control business via the government. Can't get any more fascist than that. If you don't see it you are blind.


Right. Government is evil (and here I thought our form of government was one of the great wonders of mankind - at least I learned that in school) and unfettered business interests are the path to nirvana.

I was listening to a radio report this AM regarding Nigeria. The people live in abject squalor while oil companies pump all the wealth out of their nation, pay them subsistence wages, and funnel the rest of the wealth into their own pockets while siphoning off what is needed to buy off the Nigerian politicians. Every once in a while, one of the gas pipelines springs a leak (or a leak is sprung some other way) and all these poverty stricken people gather from miles around with buckets and jugs to gather up some gas to sell. Unfortunately, what happens all too often is a spark is ignited, the fumes explode, and all those poor Nigerians are incinerated - incinerated trying to get a few pennies from a natural resource that, to all intents and purposes, has been stolen from them.

Of course, the oil executives don't see any of this. They fly in and out. And if they have to stay, they stay in high rises along the seashore. They don't even have to drive through the polluted shantytowns they helped to create. And if you asked them about it, do you know what they'd say? They'd say, "We are not breaking any laws." That is always their final code of ethics. Of course, they bought the politicians who wrote the laws.

And here's another interesting fact; those same executives are the ones walking through the halls of Washington DC right now, passing out checks in exchange for legislation that favors their industry. These are the people Cheney met with, in secret, to write America's energy policy. And the Right argues, with a straight face, that business wouldn't do to America, and Americans, what they've done in other parts of the world. Really? You really believe that?

They're already doing it. And if they're not stopped, it will get much worse. We don't have to imagine what a business controlled world looks like. Our own history has shown us. What is happening around the world shows us. They'll be more than happy to have workers paid subsistence wages and living in shacks while they live in gated mansions and secure enclaves. They do it all over the world.

Greed never sleeps.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Back to topic... I wanna hear some more about violent liberal revolution.

Just ask Rohirrim to expound on his desire for another civil war. He wants you to be killed, imrisoned, or forced to adopt liberal ideology.

Sounds tolerant to me.

[Rohirrim]

Just ask Rohirrim to expound on his desire for another civil war. He wants you to be killed, imrisoned, or forced to adopt liberal ideology.

Sounds tolerant to me.

Like the majority of your rightard heroes, you are a liar.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Like the majority of your rightard heroes, you are a liar.

You have made it quite clear here over a long period of time that you are looking forward to a violent clash between cultures.

You have been convinced that its the only way that your substandard, swiss-cheese political philosophy will take full control.

Its always the lefties who want to kill everyone to install their govt. Che Guevara, Hitler, Stalin, Mao...you guys are all the same. To you clowns people are worthless animals who deserve to be mowed down if they stand in the way of your precious ideology.

Your ideology is a lie anyway.

And you have to couch it in lies to sell it in this country.

[Rohirrim]

You have made it quite clear here over a long period of time that you are looking forward to a violent clash between cultures.

You have been convinced that its the only way that your substandard, swiss-cheese political philosophy will take full control.

Its always the lefties who want to kill everyone to install their govt. Che Guevara, Hitler, Stalin, Mao...you guys are all the same. To you clowns people are worthless animals who deserve to be mowed down if they stand in the way of your precious ideology.

Your ideology is a lie anyway.

And you have to couch it in lies to sell it in this country.

What cultures are you referring to?

Oh, and BTW, referring to Hitler as a Lefty is just evidence of ignorance.

[epicSocialism4tw]

What cultures are you referring to?

Oh, and BTW, referring to Hitler as a Lefty is just evidence of ignorance.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/PropagandaNaziStabsBible.gif

[Rohirrim]

What cultures are you referring to?

Oh, and BTW, referring to Hitler as a Lefty is just evidence of ignorance.

[epicSocialism4tw]

What cultures are you referring to?

Oh, and BTW, referring to Hitler as a Lefty is just evidence of ignorance.

Poor Rohirrim. Swept away by the propaganda.
http://www.thebreman.org/exhibitions/online/1000kids/schutzengel.jpg

[Mile High Shack]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/PropagandaNaziStabsBible.gif

NAZIS, HITLER, GOEBBELS

you have Nazi tourettes about as bad as your hero

[epicSocialism4tw]

NAZIS, HITLER, GOEBBELS

you have Nazi tourettes about as bad as your hero

If you read the exchange between Rohirrim and I, and you also understood anything about socialism, you would understand why I posted that.

But as it is, you look like a fool.

Have fun with that.

[Mile High Shack]

if you read the exchange between rohirrim and i, and you also understood anything about socialism, you would understand why i posted that.

But as it is, you look like a fool.

Have fun with that.

hitler, stalin, goebbels!!!!!

[epicSocialism4tw]

hitler, stalin, goebbels!!!!!

You are blind, and without sight you are doomed to failure. Our only hope for this country is for people like you to have someone close to them slap them back into sense.

[Mile High Shack]

you are blind, and without sight you are doomed to failure. Our only hope for this country is for people like you to have someone close to them slap them back into sense.

glen beck is a god!

[Rohirrim]

glen beck is a god!

Do you notice? The drama llama is actually starting to talk like GB.

[epicSocialism4tw]

glen beck is a god!

http://www.itsnature.org/Ice/images/article-images/Collared_Lemming.jpg

[Mile High Shack]

Do you notice? The drama llama is actually starting to talk like GB.

yeah I think I'm giving up even trying to have a discussion, it's just talking points from Fox News

I am a registered republican, but I can see both sides are playing everyone against each other why the top cats just laugh themselves to the bank and the rich get richer.

They are laughing at us, they know we can't do anything....or they think we can't.

I agree with you, a revolution will eventually take place, look at history, there are only so long the serfs will be enslaved. I just don't know what generation it's going to happen.

[JJJ]

LOL Where do you people come up with this stuff? You're like living, breathing caricatures.

What is your comment on this quote?

Originally Posted by Rohirrim
Freedom sometimes demands blood. I see this country slipping toward fascism. Every true American should be willing to stand up and fight that. Just as we fought fascism in Europe 65 years ago.

[JJJ]

What cultures are you referring to?

Oh, and BTW, referring to Hitler as a Lefty is just evidence of ignorance.

Not exactly. It is interesting that the far left Marxism and the far right Fascism have historically ended up exactly at the exact same place, with a tyrannical murderous dictator overseeing all aspects of the country. If you bend the theoretical line between left and right into a circle of actuality these two philosophies meet at the same place.

Both systems soundly reject individualism which I would say in a modern context is the core position of the right.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Not exactly. It is interesting that the far left Marxism and the far right Fascism have historically ended up exactly at the exact same place, with a tyrannical murderous dictator overseeing all aspects of the country.

Hmmm...."tyrannical, murderous dictator?"

Seems you're an apologist for a *president who aspired to all of the above.

[broncocalijohn]

What part of that quote isn't tea party conservatism?

Also, the dude is from CNBC, the the bastion of conservatism, and is openly a conservative against the Democratic Party.

Sorry if that doesn't fit your narative.

he is a described fiscal conservative and social liberal and has stated that just last week on his show.

[Rohirrim]

Not exactly. It is interesting that the far left Marxism and the far right Fascism have historically ended up exactly at the exact same place, with a tyrannical murderous dictator overseeing all aspects of the country. If you bend the theoretical line between left and right into a circle of actuality these two philosophies meet at the same place.

Both systems soundly reject individualism which I would say in a modern context is the core position of the right.

Only in a world where you are so full of yourself that you believe the mere act of your saying something makes it true.

If you bend the theoretical line between left and right into a circle of actuality these two philosophies meet at the same place.

Hilarious! What kind of bull**** is that?

[Mile High Shack]

Only in a world where you are so full of yourself that you believe the mere act of your saying something makes it true.

If you bend the theoretical line between left and right into a circle of actuality these two philosophies meet at the same place.

Hilarious! What kind of bull**** is that?

sounds like something Beck told his puppets

[JJJ]

Only in a world where you are so full of yourself that you believe the mere act of your saying something makes it true.

If you bend the theoretical line between left and right into a circle of actuality these two philosophies meet at the same place.

Hilarious! What kind of bull**** is that?

A little too deep for you ok, I understand.

The bare truth is they both ended up being the most murderous system the world has ever seen and they are caused by the same thing, people being asked first and ultimately told to give up their individual freedoms for the "common good".

If this is not a true statement then let your pagan god of atheism strike me down on the spot.

[Mile High Shack]

A little too deep for you ok, I understand.

The bare truth is they both ended up being the most murderous system the world has ever seen and they are caused by the same thing, people being asked first and ultimately told to give up their individual freedoms for the "common good".

If this is not a true statement then let your pagan god of atheism strike me down on the spot.

any educated person knows that fascism and socialism are on the two different extremes of the political sphere.

It's a shame you don't know this, it's kinda 101

[JJJ]

any educated person knows that fascism and socialism are on the two different extremes of the political sphere.

It's a shame you don't know this, it's kinda 101

So if they are at such different extremes why do they always end up at the same place?

On the simpleton scale yes you are correct because the simpleton believes there actually is something as socialism. But socialism can't survive in practice for more than a brief period. Once the masses are stripped of their individual rights socialism almost always morphs into fascism because it is such an easy step to do so.

[Mile High Shack]

So if they are at such different extremes why do they always end up at the same place?

On the simpleton scale yes you are correct because the simpleton believes there actually is something as socialism. But socialism can't survive in practice for more than a brief period. Once the masses are stripped of their individual rights socialism almost always morphs into fascism because it is such an easy step to do so.

sad state of education now days....it's really a shame

you seriously don't know that fascism is extreme right and communism is extreme left??

[Mile High Shack]

Little more education for you

Communism is a socio economic system that stands for a class less, state less and an egalitarian society. Fascism is an ideology that tries to bring together radical and authoritarian nationalism.

Fascism became popular between 1919 and 1945 and the term has become an epithet for all bad things. Fascism originally referred to the Fascists under Benito Mussolini. Communism became popular after the Bolshevik Revolution of Russia in 1917. The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels is considered to be the bible of communism. The authoritative document of Fascism is “The Doctrine of Fascism.

Communism stands for a stateless society where all are equal. No one is rich or poor in a communist system. In Communism, it is the community that holds the production and the major resources. On the other hand, Fascism pertains to state and it considers state on top of everything. In fascism the state is all embracing. For the fascists, no human values exist outside the state. Fascism believes that everything is within the State and nothing is above the State or outside the State or against the State. Fascism believes in nationalism (includes economic nationalism), corporatism (includes economic planning), militarism and totalitarianism (dictatorship and social interventionism).

The Communists think globally where as the Fascists think only in a national level.

In communism, the state is the custodian of everything and it is the state that owns everything. On the other hand, in Fascism, the state has control over everything. In simple words, Communism means state ownership and fascism means state control.

Fascism is derived from Italian fascio meaning bundle. Communism comes from French communisme, meaning common.

Summary
1.Communism is a socio economic system that stands for a class less, state less and an egalitarian society. Fascism is an ideology that tries to bring together radical and authoritarian nationalism.
2.Fascism became popular between 1919 and 1945. Communism became popular after the Bolshevik Revolution of Russia in 1917.
3.The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels is considered to be the bible of communism. The authoritative document of Fascism is “The Doctrine of Fascism.
4. Communism stands for a stateless society where all are equal. Fascism pertains to state and it considers state on top of everything


Read more: Difference Between Communism and fascism | Difference Between | Communism vs fascism http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-communism-and-fascism/#ixzz15a8HsGDO

[Requiem]

If you have paid attention to any of JJJ's political diatribe over the past year or so you can tell he completely lacks and fundamental, hell even basic understanding of politics, whether it be ideologies (as portrayed here) international relations or anything of relevant consequence.

Just enjoy the good laugh and go about your day.

[Rohirrim]

A little too deep for you ok, I understand.

The bare truth is they both ended up being the most murderous system the world has ever seen and they are caused by the same thing, people being asked first and ultimately told to give up their individual freedoms for the "common good".

If this is not a true statement then let your pagan god of atheism strike me down on the spot.

If you take a linear expression of anything and join the ends, you will have created a circle and placed two extremes next to each other. To then infer that there is any validity to such a juxtaposition is redicules.

I'm not an atheist, BTW. Another simplistic assumption.

[JJJ]

3 of your biggest hitters step up to the plate and can't answer the question, why do these two systems at the seemingly opposite end of the spectrum end up at the same place in practice?

Continue on avoiding the question please.


Communism stands for a stateless society where all are equal.


This is my point genius. This statement is theory only. Such a state can never, and has never been acheivable in practice.

[JJJ]

If you take a linear expression of anything and join the ends, you will have created a circle and placed two extremes next to each other. To then infer that there is any validity to such a juxtaposition is redicules.

I'm not an atheist, BTW. Another simplistic assumption.

Except that in this case the empirical evidence suggests hypothesis and the juxtaposition may very well be true.

[Mile High Shack]

3 of your biggest hitters step up to the plate and can't answer the question, why do these two systems at the seemingly opposite end of the spectrum end up at the same place in practice?

Continue on avoiding the question please.



This is my point genius. This statement is theory only. Such a state can never, and has never been acheivable in practice.

the argument is stupid though, in THEORY, most things work, but you are correct, in practice they don't.

I could say the same thing about the free market system, capitalism, our republic...they all work in theory, but b/c of human greed and corruption, they don't work like they should.

So to sum it up....dumb argument....do research, don't just watch Beck for your answers.

[Rohirrim]

Except that in this case the empirical evidence suggests hypothesis and the juxtaposition may very well be true.

Only to Humpty Dumpty, whose philosophy was that words meant whatever he wanted them to mean. Lot of that going around these days.

[TonyR]

It's almost as if David Frum, excerpted below, is speaking directly to the likes of Skillet and JJJ. But we know they won't listen.

Too often, conservatives dupe themselves. They wrap themselves in closed information systems based upon pretend information. In this closed information system, banks can collapse without injuring the rest of the economy, tax cuts always pay for themselves and Congressional earmarks cause the federal budget deficit. Even the market collapse has not shaken some conservatives out of their closed information system. It enfolded them more closely within it. This is how to understand the Glenn Beck phenomenon. Every day, Beck offers alternative knowledge — an alternative history of the United States and the world, an alternative system of economics, an alternative reality. As corporate profits soar, the closed information system insists that the free-enterprise system is under assault. As prices slump, we are warned of imminent hyperinflation. As black Americans are crushed under Depression-level unemployment, the administration’s policies are condemned by some conservatives as an outburst of Kenyan racial revenge against the white overlord.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/magazine/14FOB-idealab-t.html?_r=1&ref=republican_party&pagewanted=print

[TonyR]

Here's Jon Chait commenting on Frum's article linked above:

The whole piece is a dead-on attack on the central thrust of conservative thought over the last two years. I think it’s desperately necessary that sane people reform the conservative movement into a non-pathological, reality-based force in American politics. But I fear Frum is slaying so many sacred cows that nobody in the movement will listen to him.

http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2010/11/american-exceptionalism-and-anti-historicism-on-the-right/

When you see the things the "conservatives" that post here post you know we're along way from the sanity Chait mentions above.

[TailgateNut]

It's almost as if David Frum, excerpted below, is speaking directly to the likes of Skillet and JJJ. But we know they won't listen.

Too often, conservatives dupe themselves. They wrap themselves in closed information systems based upon pretend information. In this closed information system, banks can collapse without injuring the rest of the economy, tax cuts always pay for themselves and Congressional earmarks cause the federal budget deficit. Even the market collapse has not shaken some conservatives out of their closed information system. It enfolded them more closely within it. This is how to understand the Glenn Beck phenomenon. Every day, Beck offers alternative knowledge — an alternative history of the United States and the world, an alternative system of economics, an alternative reality. As corporate profits soar, the closed information system insists that the free-enterprise system is under assault. As prices slump, we are warned of imminent hyperinflation. As black Americans are crushed under Depression-level unemployment, the administration’s policies are condemned by some conservatives as an outburst of Kenyan racial revenge against the white overlord.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/magazine/14FOB-idealab-t.html?_r=1&ref=republican_party&pagewanted=print


This mirrors the twisted logic of JJJ and McDramaFryingPan.


Beck would be proud of their DittoHead status.

[Rohirrim]

It's almost as if David Frum, excerpted below, is speaking directly to the likes of Skillet and JJJ. But we know they won't listen.

Too often, conservatives dupe themselves. They wrap themselves in closed information systems based upon pretend information. In this closed information system, banks can collapse without injuring the rest of the economy, tax cuts always pay for themselves and Congressional earmarks cause the federal budget deficit. Even the market collapse has not shaken some conservatives out of their closed information system. It enfolded them more closely within it. This is how to understand the Glenn Beck phenomenon. Every day, Beck offers alternative knowledge — an alternative history of the United States and the world, an alternative system of economics, an alternative reality. As corporate profits soar, the closed information system insists that the free-enterprise system is under assault. As prices slump, we are warned of imminent hyperinflation. As black Americans are crushed under Depression-level unemployment, the administration’s policies are condemned by some conservatives as an outburst of Kenyan racial revenge against the white overlord.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/magazine/14FOB-idealab-t.html?_r=1&ref=republican_party&pagewanted=print

Ergo, my contention that we are living in Wonderland. At least, the Right is.

[TonyR]

Here's more on the subject from E.D. Kain:

The trick with closed information systems is that they need to be constantly protected from outside contamination (inconvenient facts, hard questions, etc.). (In this sense, Sarah Palin can be seen as almost the embodiment or avatar of the closed information system, furiously impervious to reality.)...

I would suggest that perhaps the conservative movement itself is the most sacred of sacred cows here, and also the greatest impediment to conservatism as a ‘reality-based force in American politics’. More than anything, it is the movement itself which creates these closed information circuits, which revels in anti-historicism and the weaving of conservative illusion. In some ways it is also a great political force, but I also suspect that it is nearing its zenith in terms of both heat and light. These sorts of movements by their very natures have poor immune systems which is why they guard themselves so fiercely, why they are forced to create alternative narratives, alternate histories. They are brittle. The conservative movement, for all its ferocity and political savvy, is brittle, because it relies too heavily on its own illusions – illusions which have been made in recent years all too convincing by outlets like Fox News.

http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2010/11/american-exceptionalism-and-anti-historicism-on-the-right/

[TonyR]

This mirrors the twisted logic of JJJ and McDramaFryingPan.

Isn't it remarkable? You can tell that at some level they're both very bright and yet they can't even begin to see this. Modern right wing propaganda has been so enmeshed into their very being that it doesn't seem as if they can be reached. It's almost like they need to be reprogrammed.

[Rohirrim]

Here's more on the subject from E.D. Kain:

The trick with closed information systems is that they need to be constantly protected from outside contamination (inconvenient facts, hard questions, etc.). (In this sense, Sarah Palin can be seen as almost the embodiment or avatar of the closed information system, furiously impervious to reality.)...

I would suggest that perhaps the conservative movement itself is the most sacred of sacred cows here, and also the greatest impediment to conservatism as a ‘reality-based force in American politics’. More than anything, it is the movement itself which creates these closed information circuits, which revels in anti-historicism and the weaving of conservative illusion. In some ways it is also a great political force, but I also suspect that it is nearing its zenith in terms of both heat and light. These sorts of movements by their very natures have poor immune systems which is why they guard themselves so fiercely, why they are forced to create alternative narratives, alternate histories. They are brittle. The conservative movement, for all its ferocity and political savvy, is brittle, because it relies too heavily on its own illusions – illusions which have been made in recent years all too convincing by outlets like Fox News.

http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2010/11/american-exceptionalism-and-anti-historicism-on-the-right/

You may have heard, Palin has launched an exploratory committee to prepare her run for the presidency. I'm curious to see how far the Right will go to try and elect this woman while bypassing any and all intrusions into her info-bubble. No debates? No interviews? No questions? I'm sure she'll do Fox interviews as she inhabits their closed loop.

As Sharon Angles pointed out recently, sometimes dictators make good decisions. Her example was Pinochet. Sometimes, you need to get rid of the intellectual elite and things like journalism, to move a country forward. Education is overrated. Newt Gingrich said a few days ago that he is not so much concerned with just winning elections as he is with the extermination of the Left.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The trick with closed information systems is that they need to be constantly protected from outside contamination (inconvenient facts, hard questions, etc.)

Wow.

He certainly pegged McSkillet there.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Newt Gingrich said a few days ago that he is not so much concerned with just winning elections as he is with the extermination of the Left.

I was alluding to just this sort of thing when I asked the rhetorical question "didn't Obama learn anything from Clinton's presidency?"

You extend a hand to these jackals and they'll cut it off at the elbow every single time.

[TonyR]

You may have heard, Palin has launched an exploratory committee to prepare her run for the presidency.

It's terrifying. Really, really serious and scary stuff. She's got two free PR machines running right now with her daughter on Dancing With the Stars and that new show on TLC.

[Rohirrim]

It's terrifying. Really, really serious and scary stuff. She's got two free PR machines running right now with her daughter on Dancing With the Stars and that new show on TLC.

Well, I think we have reached the point in American history where we can turn the presidency into a reality show format. Why not?

[TonyR]

...we can turn the presidency into a reality show format.

I don't watch DWTS but I know several people who do including my wife. They all say that Bristol Palin is awful and should have been voted off early in the competetion. And yet here she is in the finals because apparently she dominates the the audience/viewer vote despite getting the lowest scores from the professional judges. So in a way it's very much like what could happen with her mother: clearly talentless and yet winning the popularity contest.

[Mile High Shack]

It's almost as if David Frum, excerpted below, is speaking directly to the likes of Skillet and JJJ. But we know they won't listen.

Too often, conservatives dupe themselves. They wrap themselves in closed information systems based upon pretend information. In this closed information system, banks can collapse without injuring the rest of the economy, tax cuts always pay for themselves and Congressional earmarks cause the federal budget deficit. Even the market collapse has not shaken some conservatives out of their closed information system. It enfolded them more closely within it. This is how to understand the Glenn Beck phenomenon. Every day, Beck offers alternative knowledge — an alternative history of the United States and the world, an alternative system of economics, an alternative reality. As corporate profits soar, the closed information system insists that the free-enterprise system is under assault. As prices slump, we are warned of imminent hyperinflation. As black Americans are crushed under Depression-level unemployment, the administration’s policies are condemned by some conservatives as an outburst of Kenyan racial revenge against the white overlord.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/magazine/14FOB-idealab-t.html?_r=1&ref=republican_party&pagewanted=print

thankfully I wised up. I was lock step in line pre-2008 with what the right was doing.

This market crash and the tea party movement has really woke me up to the reality of the situation.

We are living in scary times right now and I don't see anything improving for the better

[Mile High Shack]

I don't watch DWTS but I know several people who do including my wife. They all say that Bristol Palin is awful and should have been voted off early in the competetion. And yet here here she is in the finals because apparently she dominates the the audience/viewer vote despite getting the lowest scores from the professional judges. So in a way it's very much like what could happen with her mother: clearly talentless and yet winning the popularity contest.

surely the whole population wouldn't elect her though, I mean my GOD, it's really game over if a person this stupid gets elected to the most important office in the world.

GW2 was dumb, but not this dumb.

[Rohirrim]

That Frum article should be required reading.

[Mr.Meanie]

That Frum article should be required reading.

That really was a fantastic article. This part in particular I thought was profound:

Lesson 4: Even from a conservative point of view, the welfare state is not all bad.

G. K. Chesterton observed that you should never take a fence down until you understand why it had been put up. We should remember why the immediate post-Depression generations created so many social-welfare programs. They were not motivated only — or even primarily — by “compassion.” They were motivated as well by the desire for stability.

Social Security, unemployment insurance and other benefits were designed as anti-Depression defenses, “automatic stabilizers” as economists called them. When people lost their jobs, their incomes did not drop by 100 percent, but by 30 percent or 40 percent: they could continue to pay rent, buy food and sustain society’s overall level of demand for goods and services. State pensions created a segment of society whose primary incomes remained stable regardless of economic conditions. The growth of the higher-education sector and of health care had a similar effect.

Brilliantly stated, imo. I tend to side more on the "conservative" side of things fiscally, but lately it's hard to side with the conservatives who scream bloody murder against any sort of economic safety net for the elderly, destitute and unemployed. That's not conservativism, that's recklessness.

I think many conservatives have moved so far to the right, that any argument for ANY sort of social welfare is labeled far-left wing liberalism. And it's the conservatives in the entertainment field (Rush, Beck, Palin, Hannity) who are leading this charge, unfortunately. When moderate conservatives like Frum challenge this group-think and call for reason, they are attacked and ignored by the Party. Sad...

[TonyR]

That Frum article should be required reading.

What's "funny" is that the resident righties won't read it, thus proving the point Frum makes about the closed information systems. What's not going to be so funny is the coming day when Sarah Palin is being inaugurated...

[Rohirrim]

That really was a fantastic article. This part in particular I thought was profound:



Brilliantly stated, imo. I tend to side more on the "conservative" side of things fiscally, but lately it's hard to side with the conservatives who scream bloody murder against any sort of economic safety net for the elderly, destitute and unemployed. That's not conservativism, that's recklessness.

I think many conservatives have moved so far to the right, that any argument for ANY sort of social welfare is labeled far-left wing liberalism. And it's the conservatives in the entertainment field (Rush, Beck, Palin, Hannity) who are leading this charge, unfortunately. When moderate conservatives like Frum challenge this group-think and call for reason, they are attacked and ignored by the Party. Sad...

There are ideologues out there who believe (almost religiously) in the idea of an "invisible hand." What they don't take into account is (like Orwell said) that the invisible hand leads to a social Darwinist world of winners and losers, with the losers far outweighing the winners. If history proves anything, it is that those who don't have an investment in society don't care about it. Why should they? There is no way you have a stable society if you relegate the more numerous bottom economic tier to survival of the fittest while the elite passes the wealth back and forth amongst themselves. The whole invisible hand thing is a joke anyway. So is the idea of free markets. There's no such thing.

[Rohirrim]

What's "funny" is that the resident righties won't read it, thus proving the point Frum makes about the closed information systems. What's not going to be so funny is the coming day when Sarah Palin is being inaugurated...

Fortunately, my secondary Irish citizenship is in the pipe. We discussed this as a family last weekend. If it goes that way, we're out. :wave:

[epicSocialism4tw]

That really was a fantastic article. This part in particular I thought was profound:



Brilliantly stated, imo. I tend to side more on the "conservative" side of things fiscally, but lately it's hard to side with the conservatives who scream bloody murder against any sort of economic safety net for the elderly, destitute and unemployed. That's not conservativism, that's recklessness.

I think many conservatives have moved so far to the right, that any argument for ANY sort of social welfare is labeled far-left wing liberalism. And it's the conservatives in the entertainment field (Rush, Beck, Palin, Hannity) who are leading this charge, unfortunately. When moderate conservatives like Frum challenge this group-think and call for reason, they are attacked and ignored by the Party. Sad...

I dont think that you are really addressing anything of substance with this kind of opinion.

You have bought into the propaganda that "The Tea Party wants to take away all our services", which is a mischaracterization of the movement.

The Tea Party was born out of the further expansion of the government and the tax obligation of the citizens. The bank bail-outs, the auto bail outs, obamacare, cap and tax, etc.

That's pretty much a run away train of new tax obligations during a time when a dollar buys less and jobs pay less...if you can get one.

Barack Obama spoke of "tightening our belts" and then begain to spend our money like a trophy wife on things we didnt want...taking away civil liberties in the process.

Every middle class-to-poor citizen should agree with and support Tea Party goals. It is the politics of the regular people (called the populists by the wealthy governing class).

The Tea Party is a threat to the wealthy governing class. The last thing they want is regular people getting into "their" offices and seeing their money changing and how they sell us down the river every day.

Remember, this governing class is the same strata of people that broke their word to every indian tribe in this country in one of the most shameful displays of exploitation that happened here. This is the same group of people who owned slaves. Their mentality today isnt all that different. They want abortion, because it saves them money to kill poor kids before they are born.

The last thing they want is for regular people to be given the power that they have sequestered for themselves. The establishment republican and democrat opposition to the Tea Party should be an indicator to all of us that something deeper is happening here. The Tea Party simply wants accountability...of money spent and of politicians' actions. Somehow people have been convinced by propaganda that those things are bad.

Wake up, people.

[Rohirrim]

The maestro of whackitude arrives with another lunatic tirade!

Everything in the above post is incorrect.

[epicSocialism4tw]

There are ideologues out there who believe (almost religiously) in the idea of an "invisible hand." What they don't take into account is (like Orwell said) that the invisible hand leads to a social Darwinist world of winners and losers, with the losers far outweighing the winners. If history proves anything, it is that those who don't have an investment in society don't care about it. Why should they? There is no way you have a stable society if you relegate the more numerous bottom economic tier to survival of the fittest while the elite passes the wealth back and forth amongst themselves. The whole invisible hand thing is a joke anyway. So is the idea of free markets. There's no such thing.

Ha!

The invisible hand isnt some kind of mystic idea. Its a common sense way to describe the way that markets are directed to suit the needs of consumers and producers.

[epicSocialism4tw]

The maestro of whackitude arrives with another lunatic tirade!

Everything in the above post is incorrect.

Coming from the guy who follows me around in every thread personally attacking me, but is never able to provide a counter opinion worth wiping your butt with.

[TonyR]

The maestro of whackitude arrives with another lunatic tirade!

What's funny is that he's proving some of the very things we've been discussing today over the last several posts. Stating the very same nonsense we've just largely explained away. Think he's bothered to read that NYT Frum article yet?

[epicSocialism4tw]

What's funny is that he's proving some of the very things we've been discussing today over the last several posts. Stating the very same nonsense we've just largely explained away. Think he's bothered to read that NYT Frum article yet?

Another personal attack from you.

Its all you guys have left.

You all have become so polarized that you cant even talk anymore. Its mainly because your ideology is being gobbled up and digested by history. You'll either have to adapt or go away. Either way its better for all of us.

[TonyR]

You all have become so polarized that you cant even talk anymore.

Go back and thoughtfully read the last couple pages of this thread, then come back and we'll be happy to "talk" to you. But you need to first make an effort to open your mind and educate yourself so you can make a worthwhile contribution to the discussion. You're an adult, not an infant. We're not going to spoon feed you.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Go back and thoughtfully read the last couple pages of this thread, then come back and we'll be happy to "talk" to you. But you need to first make an effort to open your mind and educate yourself so you can make a worthwhile contribution to the discussion. You're an adult, not an infant. We're not going to spoon feed you.

Your delusions of grandeur are showing.

[TonyR]

Barack Obama spoke of "tightening our belts" and then begain to spend our money like a trophy wife on things we didnt want...taking away civil liberties in the process.

I picked this particular point out of your ridiculous post to focus on here. What has Obama spent "your" money on, and what civil liberties has he taken away?

[Rohirrim]

Another personal attack from you.

Its all you guys have left.

You all have become so polarized that you cant even talk anymore. Its mainly because your ideology is being gobbled up and digested by history. You'll either have to adapt or go away. Either way its better for all of us.

I think you got that from Mein Kampf. ROFL!

[JJJ]

Originally Posted by TonyR
Where do you people come up with this stuff? You're like living, breathing caricatures.

What is your comment on this quote?



Originally Posted by Rohirrim
Freedom sometimes demands blood. I see this country slipping toward fascism. Every true American should be willing to stand up and fight that. Just as we fought fascism in Europe 65 years ago.

Still waiting....

[Mile High Shack]

I picked this particular point out of your ridiculous post to focus on here. What has Obama spent "your" money on, and what civil liberties has he taken away?

it's a little embarrassing, I suspect he's quickly scanning the Glenn Beck archives to tell you which ones

[JJJ]

Only to Humpty Dumpty, whose philosophy was that words meant whatever he wanted them to mean. Lot of that going around these days.

Perhaps the weakest retort I have seen in a long time. Glad to know you basically have conceded my point.

The liberal circle jerkoff that proceeded this post is worthy of a good laugh. Not a single lucid response. No surprise there.

Enjoy your life in Ireland. One of the European PIGS. Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain whose economies are teetering on the brink. I am sure they can use your help.

[Mile High Shack]

Now I get why the Beck puppets can say left wing and Nazi together.

http://gawker.com/5693476/roger-ailes-is-no-longer-sane

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Back to topic... I wanna hear some more about violent liberal revolution.Try and keep up. The actual topic of this post is a Right Wing politico, spending years at Bloomberg and CNBC before appearing on MSNBC. Poor Mad Yak thought he just "slayed anuber un dose librals" because of the station he appeared on. You followed him right in, Ha!

[broncocalijohn]

That really was a fantastic article. This part in particular I thought was profound:



Brilliantly stated, imo. I tend to side more on the "conservative" side of things fiscally, but lately it's hard to side with the conservatives who scream bloody murder against any sort of economic safety net for the elderly, destitute and unemployed. That's not conservativism, that's recklessness.

I think many conservatives have moved so far to the right, that any argument for ANY sort of social welfare is labeled far-left wing liberalism. And it's the conservatives in the entertainment field (Rush, Beck, Palin, Hannity) who are leading this charge, unfortunately. When moderate conservatives like Frum challenge this group-think and call for reason, they are attacked and ignored by the Party. Sad...

You have to remember that too much "compassion" can be reckless. Is it right or wrong to keep extending unemployment benefits without it being paid back? Do we raise or keep the retirement age for Social Security? Things can sound like compassion but can wreck the economy. Public sentiment makes a huge difference. Look at France. They are protesting in the streets because they still want the socialism granted to them in the 80s when they (France) cant afford it anymore. When we extend the unemployment benefits, why not make it a 0% (or prime rate) interest loan or when they go back to work, make those that benefitted from it put a higher unemployment rate in their paychecks. These are things that can use compassion but also use economic sense for the future.

[Mr.Meanie]

You have to remember that too much "compassion" can be reckless. Is it right or wrong to keep extending unemployment benefits without it being paid back? Do we raise or keep the retirement age for Social Security? Things can sound like compassion but can wreck the economy. Public sentiment makes a huge difference. Look at France. They are protesting in the streets because they still want the socialism granted to them in the 80s when they (France) cant afford it anymore. When we extend the unemployment benefits, why not make it a 0% (or prime rate) interest loan or when they go back to work, make those that benefitted from it put a higher unemployment rate in their paychecks. These are things that can use compassion but also use economic sense for the future.

I agree with you to a certain point, but really it's not about compassion. It's more like loss mitigation. Like Frum said, we don't provide these benefits because we feel bad for these people, we provide them because we want to create a "soft fall" for our economy we experience an economic crash. Instead of zero money, people have to figure out how to get by on 40% of their previous income, and they are still able to consume goods that keep other businesses running and other people employed.

Discussing the degree to which we provide these benefits is a good debate, and it is the essence of the moderate right/left world view. The problem comes when the far, far right demonizes these programs and wants them gutted or gone - that's a completely different argument.

[Rohirrim]

I agree with you to a certain point, but really it's not about compassion. It's more like loss mitigation. Like Frum said, we don't provide these benefits because we feel bad for these people, we provide them because we want to create a "soft fall" for our economy we experience an economic crash. Instead of zero money, people have to figure out how to get by on 40% of their previous income, and they are still able to consume goods that keep other businesses running and other people employed.

Discussing the degree to which we provide these benefits is a good debate, and it is the essence of the moderate right/left world view. The problem comes when the far, far right demonizes these programs and wants them gutted or gone - that's a completely different argument.

One benefit to the type of world the Right fringe would impose; It wouldn't last long. ;D

[Bronco Yoda]

You have to remember that too much "compassion" can be reckless. Is it right or wrong to keep extending unemployment benefits without it being paid back? Do we raise or keep the retirement age for Social Security? Things can sound like compassion but can wreck the economy. Public sentiment makes a huge difference. Look at France. They are protesting in the streets because they still want the socialism granted to them in the 80s when they (France) cant afford it anymore. When we extend the unemployment benefits, why not make it a 0% (or prime rate) interest loan or when they go back to work, make those that benefitted from it put a higher unemployment rate in their paychecks. These are things that can use compassion but also use economic sense for the future.

How about means testing for Social Security? It might be a viable solution. However I can already see the outcry over this idea coming a mile away.

[JJJ]

How about means testing for Social Security? It might be a viable solution. However I can already see the outcry over this idea coming a mile away.

How about putting it in personal accounts just like 401ks? One gets back exactly what one has paid in plus the governments contribution and the gain on the investments.

[TailgateNut]

How about putting it in personal accounts just like 401ks? One gets back exactly what one has paid in plus the governments contribution and the gain on the investments.


LOLYep, that went well for those who had their money invested before Bush Allowed 9-11 to justify his pre-planned attack on Iraq.

[JJJ]

LOLYep, that went well for those who had their money invested before Bush Allowed 9-11 to justify his pre-planned attack on Iraq.

Your proposal guarantees a complete loss on 45 years worth of investment for a significant amount of people.

Not sure what Iraq has to do with investment returns. Had one invested in conservatively, say in gold for example or fixed income funds or government bonds, they would be doing pretty well even through crisis, which didn't have anything to do with Iraq I am afraid.

You make less sense with each and every post it seems.

[TailgateNut]

Your proposal guarantees a complete loss on 45 years worth of investment for a significant amount of people.

Not sure what Iraq has to do with investment returns. Had one invested in conservatively, say in gold for example or fixed income funds or government bonds, they would be doing pretty well even through crisis, which didn't have anything to do with Iraq I am afraid.

You make less sense with each and every post it seems.


Enron and WorldCom sorta started the ball rolling and 9-11 attacks pushed it over the edge.

[TailgateNut]

Your proposal guarantees a complete loss on 45 years worth of investment for a significant amount of people.

Not sure what Iraq has to do with investment returns. Had one invested in conservatively, say in gold for example or fixed income funds or government bonds, they would be doing pretty well even through crisis, which didn't have anything to do with Iraq I am afraid.

You make less sense with each and every post it seems.



"My proposal"?

[JJJ]

"My proposal"?

Apologies, Yoda's proposal.

[JJJ]

Enron and WorldCom sorta started the ball rolling and 9-11 attacks pushed it over the edge.

Well not exactly. The Dow rebounded after 9-11 and the off-balance sheet bankruptcies and peaked in 2007 at over 14,000 but whatever lets not let the facts get in the way.

If someone of retirement age (65) had invested in the Dow beginning in 1970 they would have seen the index rise by 1000% even after the drop of the crisis over that time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DJIA_historical_graph_to_jan09_(log).svg

If you want to see the affects of Reaganomics look at this chart. After 20 years of going sideways the markets went back to their traditional trajectory.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

How about putting it in personal accounts just like 401ks? One gets back exactly what one has paid in plus the governments contribution and the gain on the investments.Uh, this makes no sense. Putting the same amount in whatever fund still equals the exact same monies coming out of the paychecks. And there is NO WAY Americans would buy into to putting it into the markets, and rightfully so, considering they could never generate the current overall benefit payments.


If someone of retirement age (65) had invested in the Dow beginning in 1970 they would have seen the index rise by 1000% even after the drop of the crisis over that time.


If someone age 65 ?? What kind of math is that?

[JJJ]

Uh, this makes no sense. Putting the same amount in whatever fund still equals the exact same monies coming out of the paychecks. And there is NO WAY Americans would buy into to putting it into the markets, and rightfully so, considering they could never generate the current overall benefit payments.

If someone age 65 ?? What kind of math is that?

They can put in a locked savings account if they wish. There is no such thing as a risk free investment. One of the riskiest now is SS for a young person. The money is guaranteed not to be there.

What do you not understand about a hypothetical scenario of assuming someone today is 65 years old and is retiring and has been paying into an alternative system for 40 years?

Do you people think even for 10 seconds before posting?

[Mile High Shack]

They can put in a locked savings account if they wish. There is no such thing as a risk free investment. One of the riskiest now is SS for a young person. The money is guaranteed not to be there.

What do you not understand about a hypothetical scenario of assuming someone today is 65 years old and is retiring and has been paying into an alternative system for 40 years?

Do you people think even for 10 seconds before posting?

yes, let's give hedge fund managers more "free" money to play with

[Bronco_Beerslug]

They can put in a locked savings account if they wish. Says who?

What do you not understand about a hypothetical scenario of assuming someone today is 65 years old and is retiring and has been paying into an alternative system for 40 years? I understand what you posted very well, you, on the other hand apparently don't. Investing in the stock market is something that is not for the weak kneed. The OVERWHELMINGLY majority of Americans would never have any of it.

----------------------------------------------------------

People aren't desperate to go on a diet (http://www.slate.com/id/2274943/?from=rss), so they're not willing to embrace any plans to shrink the buffet. According to a recent NBC poll, 70 percent of Americans say they would rather not cut programs like Medicare, Social Security, and defense. Fifty-seven percent said they were uncomfortable with increasing the Social Security retirement age to 69 over the next 60 years. A recent CNN poll showed that people are extremely reluctant to cut any big areas of the federal budget. Faced with the choice of cutting a program to reduce the deficit or protecting the program from cuts, 79 percent opposed cuts to Medicare, and 69 percent wanted to protect Medicaid. On Social Security, the equivalent figure was 78 percent. Sixty percent or more favored protecting aid to farmers, college loans, and unemployment assistance.

CONT.

[Rohirrim]

Says who?
I understand what you posted very well, you, on the other hand apparently don't. Investing in the stock market is something that is not for the weak kneed. The OVERWHELMINGLY majority of Americans would never have any of it.

----------------------------------------------------------

People aren't desperate to go on a diet (http://www.slate.com/id/2274943/?from=rss), so they're not willing to embrace any plans to shrink the buffet. According to a recent NBC poll, 70 percent of Americans say they would rather not cut programs like Medicare, Social Security, and defense. Fifty-seven percent said they were uncomfortable with increasing the Social Security retirement age to 69 over the next 60 years. A recent CNN poll showed that people are extremely reluctant to cut any big areas of the federal budget. Faced with the choice of cutting a program to reduce the deficit or protecting the program from cuts, 79 percent opposed cuts to Medicare, and 69 percent wanted to protect Medicaid. On Social Security, the equivalent figure was 78 percent. Sixty percent or more favored protecting aid to farmers, college loans, and unemployment assistance.

CONT.

Haven't you heard? It's not really important what the American people want anymore. Only the expression of ideological purity is important. Ideological purity supercedes the will of the voters. Just like in the Third Reich. Some things are more important than free choice.

[JJJ]

Says who?
I understand what you posted very well, you, on the other hand apparently don't. Investing in the stock market is something that is not for the weak kneed. The OVERWHELMINGLY majority of Americans would never have any of it.

----------------------------------------------------------

People aren't desperate to go on a diet (http://www.slate.com/id/2274943/?from=rss), so they're not willing to embrace any plans to shrink the buffet. According to a recent NBC poll, 70 percent of Americans say they would rather not cut programs like Medicare, Social Security, and defense. Fifty-seven percent said they were uncomfortable with increasing the Social Security retirement age to 69 over the next 60 years. A recent CNN poll showed that people are extremely reluctant to cut any big areas of the federal budget. Faced with the choice of cutting a program to reduce the deficit or protecting the program from cuts, 79 percent opposed cuts to Medicare, and 69 percent wanted to protect Medicaid. On Social Security, the equivalent figure was 78 percent. Sixty percent or more favored protecting aid to farmers, college loans, and unemployment assistance.

CONT.

First, private accounts don't mean you have to invest in the stock market. There are low risk money market funds, government bonds, or fixed income accounts are all possible investment vehicles that can be made available.

You can have the mix one sees in a 401k. People don't seem to have a problem putting their savings in 401ks.

[SJ Bronco]

Actually, the only part that's not accurate or truthful (as far as I know) is the part that suggests he was itching to kill Arabs, or whatever.

The rest is pretty much right on the money - which is why it bothers you and your fellow cheerleaders for Daddy's Little War Criminal.

http://www.bartcop.com/bush-admits-war_criminal.jpg

I knew Pat (not well, I met him and his family a few times), let me tell you something. He was not in favor of the war, he was not stupid, he believed in his civic duty and he loved his brother. I'm a liberal, I love MSNBC, but this is bullshyt, and that guy deserves a throat punch. Despite Pat Dropping 200 yards and 3 sacks on us in a HS championship game, I loved the guy as a person. Don't throw mud when you don't know what the F-UCK! you're talking about.

[The Lone Bolt]

I knew Pat (not well, I met him and his family a few times), let me tell you something. He was not in favor of the war, he was not stupid, he believed in his civic duty and he loved his brother. I'm a liberal, I love MSNBC, but this is bullshyt, and that guy deserves a throat punch. Despite Pat Dropping 200 yards and 3 sacks on us in a HS championship game, I loved the guy as a person. Don't throw mud when you don't know what the F-UCK! you're talking about.

Naw, see you're just misunderstanding Rall's intent.::)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Naw, see you're just misunderstanding Rall's intent.::)

True that.

If either of you had the powers of comprehension God gave a fruit fly, then you'd realize the cartoon was more of an indictment of the Smirking Sociopath's policies and the media circus around Tillman.

[SJ Bronco]

True that.

If either of you had the powers of comprehension God gave a fruit fly, then you'd realize the cartoon was more of an indictment of the Smirking Sociopath's policies and the media circus around Tillman.

....And if you knew pat tillman you'd keep you're mouth shut

[SJ Bronco]

I don't mean to get all online pissed, since no one gives a damn, but I won't sit here and let some one slander the memory of a man who, along with his family, have meant a lot to my community. I obviously can't do anything to anyone online, and I certainly am not the violent type, but if you called that man to my face, any of that drivel, we'd be fighting.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

....And if you knew pat tillman you'd keep you're mouth shut

Wow.

You're really committed to attacking your little straw man, and nothing is going to stop you, clearly.

FWIW, I was a Tillman fan.

I also have a great deal of admiration for his brother Richard.

[JJJ]

Originally Posted by TonyR
Where do you people come up with this stuff? You're like living, breathing caricatures.
What is your comment on this quote?


Originally Posted by Rohirrim
Freedom sometimes demands blood. I see this country slipping toward fascism. Every true American should be willing to stand up and fight that. Just as we fought fascism in Europe 65 years ago.

Still waiting...

[TailgateNut]

What is your comment on this quote?




Still waiting...


Out-****ing-Standing.

[baja]

<EMBED height=385 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=640 src=http://www.youtube.com/v/PYD8SShKbnk?fs=1&hl=en_US allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>

Yikes, guy.


Interesting I laid out these problems in 2004 and was called a traitor for my efforts yet I persisted for 4 more years, I hope some of you got the message. I am sure some of you still haven't figured it out.

[baja]

Of course LABF has to bring his cartoonery into a thread containing a cartoon.

That's what LABF thinks of you all. He thinks that you're so stupid that you need to be told the issues through cartoons.

Yet he still avoided the topic.

LABF, why cant you address the reality that you and your party are the violent, threatening ones? The modern far left advocate the use of violence. That's not true of the Tea Party. Its certainly true of the modern far left.

Actually we need more people violent and threatening and until you get them America will continue it's rapid decent into economic slavery.

[baja]

Ha!

Yeah, because his ideas given in that video are soooo conservative. And the guy he's interviewing there is presenting such conservative ideas.

The time for conservative ideas and talking has passed Llama.

The responsible thing for citizens to do now is to organize and revolt just like the forefathers called for when the government stops serving the people.

[baja]

Bush wouldn't have the guts to ever even contemplate the results of his criminality. He's no different than that hag of a mother who thought the refugees of Katrina were "...doing better now." They remind me of the totally vacuous and out of touch royals of Britian. Bush has already proved his utter lack of consciousness by not only stating that he wouldn't have done anything different, but that his worse moment in the presidency was when Kanye West called him a racist. Can you believe the utter lack of character that proves? Wouldn't the average, empathetic, conscious individual think sending kids to war was the worst thing? Or seeing those caskets come back (which, of course, he tried to cover up). Or maybe those bodies of Americans floating face down in the Louisiana bayous? But no. What mattered to Bush was only the things that touched him, individually. Like his mother, he could give a **** what happens to anybody else. Bunch of ****ing sociopaths.

Plastic man Obama is doing his part in the destruction of American like the good puppet he is. He's not evil but in these times incompetent is nearly as bad.

Ron Paul is the only politician that speaks anything resembling the reality of todays world.

[baja]

Interview with Ratigan and Paul.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YH-UjDrYRqg?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YH-UjDrYRqg?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

"Congressman, I don't think anybody watching this show would disagree with a darn word you just said..."

I think that should end this convo.

Interesting just about everyone of these talking heads agrees with Ron Paul be it CNBC or MSNBC or FOX or CNN. People still acknowledge the truth when they hear it and that's somewhat encouraging.

[baja]

“Every generation needs a new revolution.” (Thomas Jefferson)

Wonder if he foresaw the success of the dumbing down of America

[baja]

Wow.

And Rohirrim has been the first to line up to kill his own fellow citizens because they want to be able to keep some of their money.

Unbelievable.

You've gone over the edge.

You should start a wallpaper business it will become the principal use of the dollar if the trends are left unchecked.

[baja]

I've said it before, and will say it again, it's just around the corner.

I think the current quality of people in the USA are so dumbed down and health challenged that an organized revolution is not possible.

TGN you are the exception not the rule today. As long as people continue to have access to their TV & Twenkies they will do nothing.

[baja]

McSkippit has never heard of Jefferson or the Declaration of Independence.

His ignorance of his own history is as complete as his ignorance about what Jesus really taught.

LOL seems to be a lot of that going around.

[baja]

OK I only made it to page 3 and that's enough

[Rohirrim]

Plastic man Obama is doing his part in the destruction of American like the good puppet he is. He's not evil but in these times incompetent is nearly as bad.

Ron Paul is the only politician that speaks anything resembling the reality of todays world.

Obama's last chance is the Bush tax cuts. Obama is getting the signals now, from Soros to Carville. He has one last chance. He either moves to stop the criminally inequitable flow of wealth into the pockets of the already obscenely wealthy, or he finds himself without allies. Like Soros said, "I don't mind losing, but I don't want to lose when I haven't even put up a fight." Obama either fights or becomes a footnote. Like Soros hinted at the Democracy Alliance meeting, it might be time for a new, progressive party on the Left. The Democrats are now nothing more than moderate Republicans.

Ron Paul has many great ideas, but he also agrees with the Right's concept of dismantling the social contract, which is societal suicide, as far as I'm concerned.

[baja]

Obama's last chance is the Bush tax cuts. Obama is getting the signals now, from Soros to Carville. He has one last chance. He either moves to stop the criminally inequitable flow of wealth into the pockets of the already obscenely wealthy, or he finds himself without allies. Like Soros said, "I don't mind losing, but I don't want to lose when I haven't even put up a fight." Obama either fights or becomes a footnote. Like Soros hinted at the Democracy Alliance meeting, it might be time for a new, progressive party on the Left. The Democrats are now nothing more than moderate Republicans.

Ron Paul has many great ideas, but he also agrees with the Right's concept of dismantling the social contract, which is societal suicide, as far as I'm concerned.

I would like to see reform of the social contract. The current systems are wrought with fraud. Why does a Bayer aspirin cost 25 dollars when administered in a hospital. Why is the emergency room the primary doctor for the poor?