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View Full Version : Are the Broncos too slow?


✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡
11-11-2010, 02:19 PM
1. One thing I noticed from the Raiders' 59-14 beat down, Oakland was a lot faster than our team to the point where it was a detriment. Our defenders looked over matched once Darren McFadden got into open space. I realize that a big chunk of McFadden's success was a point of attack, LOS issue, but I still thought the pursuit was slow once he hit the second level.

The Broncos receivers also had trouble getting separation from the Raiders corners, limiting our passing game to 198 yards. They were on us like glue!

It reminded me of the Wade Phillips' 1993 and 1994 Broncos that combined to go 0-5 against the Raiders.

2. I think everybody realizes the offensive line deserves the bulk of the blame for the lack of rushing success, but I don't think the running backs are helping matters in the times where they happen to find some daylight and get to the second level. Moreno, Buckhalter, Maroney and company aren't making that move and turning on the jets to turn a 9-yard gain into a 40 yard run.

Do you fans feel our running game lacks the threat to score from any where on the field? The offense has shown the ability to make the big play in the passing game, but I feel the rushing attack lacks that dimension.

I don't expect McDaniels (Belichick/Parcells school) to build an undersized team of light in the butt fairies, but can we get one guy in the backfield like Jamaal Charles or Dexter McCluster? Just one!

NFLBRONCO
11-11-2010, 02:26 PM
I think #1 reason that KC and Raiders beat us lately is speed factor. This is one area I wish Denver would be more into too.

WolfpackGuy
11-11-2010, 02:29 PM
Do you fans feel our running game lacks the threat to score from any where on the field?

Yup, they're not very threatening in general.

Mogulseeker
11-11-2010, 02:50 PM
1. One thing I noticed from the Raiders' 59-14 beat down, Oakland was a lot faster than our team to the point where it was a detriment. Our defenders looked over matched once Darren McFadden got into open space. I realize that a big chunk of McFadden's success was a point of attack, LOS issue, but I still thought the pursuit was slow once he hit the second level.

The Broncos receivers also had trouble getting separation from the Raiders corners, limiting our passing game to 198 yards. They were on us like glue!

It reminded me of the Wade Phillips' 1993 and 1994 Broncos that combined to go 0-5 against the Raiders.

2. I think everybody realizes the offensive line deserves the bulk of the blame for the lack of rushing success, but I don't think the running backs are helping matters in the times where they happen to find some daylight and get to the second level. Moreno, Buckhalter, Maroney and company aren't making that move and turning on the jets to turn a 9-yard gain into a 40 yard run.

Do you fans feel our running game lacks the threat to score from any where on the field? The offense has shown the ability to make the big play in the passing game, but I feel the rushing attack lacks that dimension.

I don't expect McDaniels (Belichick/Parcells school) to build an undersized team of light in the butt fairies, but can we get one guy in the backfield like Jamaal Charles or Dexter McCluster? Just one!

I already had a comment ready for this thread before I opened it, but you touched on it in the first sentence.

The Raiders game showed a huge speed discrepancy between the two teams, and they were just simply beating us with their speed.

Solid post. I definitely think the whole bulking up thing that McD tried to instill has taken away from the teams speed. We're old on defense too. Once Doom and Ayers get healthy, and after we take care of NT, I think what we need is another edge-rusher at RDE, a roving FS that can cover the whole field, and another 3-4 LDE because Bannan just isn't cutting it.

I think time and experience along the oline will heal the lack of a running game.

_Oro_
11-11-2010, 02:50 PM
We should just get guys that are bigger and faster than everyone else.

supermanhr9
11-11-2010, 03:08 PM
Brandon Lloyd is our only real speed demon. They keep saying Demaryius Thoma sis the fastest offensive Bronco, but I have yet to see that. Eddie is quick like lightning, but he just hasn't been making the "it" plays that Brandon has.

On defense, Perrish Cox is faster than ****, and Syd the Squid looks quick too?

Overall I agree with you that we are SLOW!!!!!!!

Who is this Joshua guy,,, are you McD?

colonelbeef
11-11-2010, 03:09 PM
We don't need physical talent, we need more Patriots cast-offs

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-11-2010, 03:11 PM
We don't need physical talent, we need more Patriots cast-offs

Hooray for reruns.

gtown
11-11-2010, 03:13 PM
we should just get guys that are bigger and faster than everyone else.
rofl!

gtown
11-11-2010, 03:14 PM
Brandon Lloyd is our only real speed demon. They keep saying Demaryius Thoma sis the fastest offensive Bronco, but I have yet to see that. Eddie is quick like lightning, but he just hasn't been making the "it" plays that Brandon has.

On defense, Perrish Cox is faster than ****, and Syd the Squid looks quick too?

Overall I agree with you that we are SLOW!!!!!!!

Who is this Joshua guy,,, are you McD?

Getting something out of Lloyd has helped me deal with the ghosts of Hillis and Fonso. Sometimes a change of scenery is needed.

DarkHorse
11-11-2010, 03:14 PM
1. One thing I noticed from the Raiders' 59-14 beat down, Oakland was a lot faster than our team to the point where it was a detriment. Our defenders looked over matched once Darren McFadden got into open space. I realize that a big chunk of McFadden's success was a point of attack, LOS issue, but I still thought the pursuit was slow once he hit the second level.

The Broncos receivers also had trouble getting separation from the Raiders corners, limiting our passing game to 198 yards. They were on us like glue!

It reminded me of the Wade Phillips' 1993 and 1994 Broncos that combined to go 0-5 against the Raiders.

2. I think everybody realizes the offensive line deserves the bulk of the blame for the lack of rushing success, but I don't think the running backs are helping matters in the times where they happen to find some daylight and get to the second level. Moreno, Buckhalter, Maroney and company aren't making that move and turning on the jets to turn a 9-yard gain into a 40 yard run.

Do you fans feel our running game lacks the threat to score from any where on the field? The offense has shown the ability to make the big play in the passing game, but I feel the rushing attack lacks that dimension.

I don't expect McDaniels (Belichick/Parcells school) to build an undersized team of light in the butt fairies, but can we get one guy in the backfield like Jamaal Charles or Dexter McCluster? Just one!


I think some of us feel that our running game lacks the threat to pick up a 3rd and 3.

Popps
11-11-2010, 03:25 PM
I'm trying to remember the last speed/finesse team to win a SB. Those teams don't fare well come playoff time.

As for the Raiders game, the problem wasn't speed... it was that they physically dominated us. (And that we looked shellshocked.)

We were shoved around at the LOS.

You need team-speed, of course. More importantly, we need our fat guys up front to be able to shove around their fat guys more effectively. Everything else will fall in place.

NFLBRONCO
11-11-2010, 03:29 PM
While I agree Popps with what you said. I think with our healthy OL for 1st time this year we'll see how much we need a speed boost.


We'll all be amazed the difference when real talent is added at

DE
NT
LG
ILB
S
CB
RB

Chris
11-11-2010, 03:31 PM
Joshua is some guy that neg reps when you when he doesn't like your incredibly tame joke.

Speed is one part of talent. We need more talent, period. We mask our lack of speed with our scheme on D... but we're a year older than we were when it worked.

Dedhed
11-11-2010, 03:32 PM
I think some of us feel that our running game lacks the threat to pick up a 3rd and 3.

I love that it's been like that for five years, and now that we're actually trying to address that by getting bigger people now complain that we're too slow.

We were a speed team under Shanny, particularly on defense, but also on the OL.

I wouldn't judge anything based on the Oakland debacle. They were beat up from a brutal five week schedule and had a let down.

TonyR
11-11-2010, 03:42 PM
I'm trying to remember the last speed/finesse team to win a SB. Those teams don't fare well come playoff time.

I think in the 11 years since Denver won the SB you could only make a decent case for three teams being anything resembling "speed/finesse" teams and those would be the '99 Rams, '06 Colts, and '09 Saints. This season from what I've seen the teams with the most notable speed are the Eagles and Chiefs. The Eagles in particular when they have Vick at QB, Jackson and Maclin at WR, and McCoy at RB. That's a lot of speed that you have to account for.

gtown
11-11-2010, 03:45 PM
I'm trying to remember the last speed/finesse team to win a SB. Those teams don't fare well come playoff time.

As for the Raiders game, the problem wasn't speed... it was that they physically dominated us. (And that we looked shellshocked.)

We were shoved around at the LOS.

You need team-speed, of course. More importantly, we need our fat guys up front to be able to shove around their fat guys more effectively. Everything else will fall in place.

It all starts with the front seven. If we have strong and fast DL, we limit the amount of OL on second level blocks of our LBs. If we have LBs that can disengage from second level blocks we can funnel running lanes to the secondary (usually safeties) that have taken the right angle with speed to get to the ball carrier. On passes, all we need is a pash rush. I say "all" like it grows on trees.

Dedhed
11-11-2010, 03:56 PM
It all starts with the front seven. If we have strong and fast DL, we limit the amount of OL on second level blocks of our LBs. We've tried the fast DL approach with disastrous results. Guys Like Haloti Gnata and Casey Hampton keep OL off LBs.

Broncomutt
11-11-2010, 03:58 PM
Players who don't really care if they win or lose tend to run slower than players who want it.

gtown
11-11-2010, 04:12 PM
We've tried the fast DL approach with disastrous results. Guys Like Haloti Gnata and Casey Hampton keep OL off LBs.

You might want to look into Haloti Ngata. The guy is a once in a generation NT who rediculously fast in small spaces. Fast AND strong at the POA. Hampton is too, but a little less so than Ngata. These guys are elite players.

Also, look at the Steelers without Polamalu. He is so fast to the ball carrier that he changes their angles right into the arms of front seven. We need an elite safety as much as we need elite DL.

I will be pissed, with Denver drafting in the top ten, if we don't come away with two perceived (draft is a crap shoot) difference makers in both positions.

Ugly Duck
11-11-2010, 04:47 PM
That speed thing is a double-edged sword for Oakland. Al Davis drafts the fastest guys at the combine & then hopes they can be trained to become football players. Its hit & miss. Darius Heyward-Bey is fast all right, but seems to have a bit of a problem catching the ball - kind of a drawback for a wide receiver (Jacoby Ford was a track star & seems to be doing better even though he was taken in the 4th round). Michael Huff is fast as hell, but has a bit of a problem tackling players. There's lotsa fast Raiders, but they're not all good football players...

Mogulseeker
11-11-2010, 04:56 PM
Brandon Lloyd is our only real speed demon. They keep saying Demaryius Thoma sis the fastest offensive Bronco, but I have yet to see that. Eddie is quick like lightning, but he just hasn't been making the "it" plays that Brandon has.

On defense, Perrish Cox is faster than ****, and Syd the Squid looks quick too?

Overall I agree with you that we are SLOW!!!!!!!

Who is this Joshua guy,,, are you McD?

Lloyd and Squid have game speed, but both are actually pretty slow when it comes to straight line max speed.

DarkHorse
11-11-2010, 05:00 PM
I love that it's been like that for five years, and now that we're actually trying to address that by getting bigger people now complain that we're too slow.

We were a speed team under Shanny, particularly on defense, but also on the OL.

I wouldn't judge anything based on the Oakland debacle. They were beat up from a brutal five week schedule and had a let down.

My comment has nothing to do with speed, you don't need speed to get better than a 3 yard run. Our run game is a two fold problem - piss poor o-line play, healthy or not they're paid to play and they have been horrendous; and a running back that dances entirely too much instead of hitting the hole. He needs to stick his nose in there and get a few tough yards instead of trying to dance around.

WolfpackGuy
11-11-2010, 05:04 PM
My comment has nothing to do with speed, you don't need speed to get better than a 3 yard run. Our run game is a two fold problem - piss poor o-line play, healthy or not they're paid to play and they have been horrendous; and a running back that dances entirely too much instead of hitting the hole. He needs to stick his nose in there and get a few tough yards instead of trying to dance around.

Which one?

The Broncos have the market cornered on dancing RB's.

Broncoman13
11-11-2010, 06:07 PM
We talking slow between the ears here? Really, was TD that fast? How about Olandis Gary? Anderson? Droughns? Rod Smith? Ed McCaffrey? Tatum Bell was super fast... how did that work out for him? Darrius Watts was a 4.4 guy, fast by most standards, didn't help him catching the football. Kasper was fast too...

Really, we're not smart enough. As many penalties as we've had and the missed assignments in running the football, blitz pickups, etc. Even Gaffney is having lapses out there. Blitz is on and he doesn't break off his route, last guy on the team I would expect to miss his assignment with this offense, yet there he was not even looking when the ball was thrown 15 yards behind him.

Broncos have to think quicker before they can play quicker. Year two in a offense and you would expect they would be doing just that.

elsid13
11-11-2010, 06:25 PM
Which one?

The Broncos have the market cornered on dancing RB's.

It will help when they do AFC West Dancing with the Stars Special

Dedhed
11-11-2010, 06:46 PM
You might want to look into Haloti Ngata. The guy is a once in a generation NT who rediculously fast in small spaces. Fast AND strong at the POA. Hampton is too, but a little less so than Ngata. These guys are elite players.

Also, look at the Steelers without Polamalu. He is so fast to the ball carrier that he changes their angles right into the arms of front seven. We need an elite safety as much as we need elite DL.

I will be pissed, with Denver drafting in the top ten, if we don't come away with two perceived (draft is a crap shoot) difference makers in both positions.

Alright. I'll take Siragusa over any DL we've had in a decade. Is he "fast" too.

Beef wins.

baja
11-11-2010, 07:01 PM
1. One thing I noticed from the Raiders' 59-14 beat down, Oakland was a lot faster than our team to the point where it was a detriment. Our defenders looked over matched once Darren McFadden got into open space. I realize that a big chunk of McFadden's success was a point of attack, LOS issue, but I still thought the pursuit was slow once he hit the second level.

The Broncos receivers also had trouble getting separation from the Raiders corners, limiting our passing game to 198 yards. They were on us like glue!

It reminded me of the Wade Phillips' 1993 and 1994 Broncos that combined to go 0-5 against the Raiders.

2. I think everybody realizes the offensive line deserves the bulk of the blame for the lack of rushing success, but I don't think the running backs are helping matters in the times where they happen to find some daylight and get to the second level. Moreno, Buckhalter, Maroney and company aren't making that move and turning on the jets to turn a 9-yard gain into a 40 yard run.

Do you fans feel our running game lacks the threat to score from any where on the field? The offense has shown the ability to make the big play in the passing game, but I feel the rushing attack lacks that dimension.

I don't expect McDaniels (Belichick/Parcells school) to build an undersized team of light in the butt fairies, but can we get one guy in the backfield like Jamaal Charles or Dexter McCluster? Just one!

I agree. I said basically the same on gameday. The Raiders looked bigger, stronger, faster and generally more athletic.

I predicted the Raiders would go on a roll and so far they have. To me they are the favorites to win the division.

The MVPlaya
11-12-2010, 01:38 AM
Defensively we're pretty slow... mainly due to our safety's. Haggan is pretty ****ing slow too I wouldn't mind an upgrade over him.

Offensively we're fine as far as speed goes. We'll probably add one "x factor" player like McCluster, Woodhead, etc next year

oubronco
11-12-2010, 10:56 AM
Speed kills

strafen
11-12-2010, 10:59 AM
I'm trying to remember the last speed/finesse team to win a SB. Those teams don't fare well come playoff time.

As for the Raiders game, the problem wasn't speed... it was that they physically dominated us. (And that we looked shellshocked.)

We were shoved around at the LOS.

You need team-speed, of course. More importantly, we need our fat guys up front to be able to shove around their fat guys more effectively. Everything else will fall in place.Don't think too hard. That was the 97-98 Broncos.
We were as finesse team as there ever was... :welcome:

I'm sure you want to argue this one since it doesn't play well into what you're saying, huh? Ha!

Dedhed
11-12-2010, 11:22 AM
Speed kills....playoff hopes

fixed

NFLBRONCO
11-12-2010, 11:26 AM
Denver needs BEEF TALENT and a RB with SPEED

oubronco
11-12-2010, 11:28 AM
Denver needs BEEF TALENT and a RB with SPEED

What we need is a dominant D-line and O-line

NFLBRONCO
11-12-2010, 11:33 AM
What we need is a dominant D-line and O-line

Yes we do

Dedhed
11-12-2010, 11:35 AM
Don't think too hard. That was the 97-98 Broncos.
We were as finesse team as there ever was... :welcome:

I'm sure you want to argue this one since it doesn't play well into what you're saying, huh? Ha!

Man you are daft. The OL is about the only component of that team built on relative finesse/speed.

Traylor, TD, McCaffrey, Romo, Atwater, Crocket, Cadrez, Burns, Niel Smith, etc

There were 2-3 players who were burners, namely Darrien Gordan other than that, the entire corps of the SB teams could be consider on the slow side.

Where you come up with this stuff is beyond me. Even if you're argument about the Broncos was correct, why would you argue for something that hasn't worked in 12 years?

Is it just out of habit from defending Shanny and his decade of futility?

strafen
11-12-2010, 02:31 PM
Man you are daft. The OL is about the only component of that team built on relative finesse/speed.

Traylor, TD, McCaffrey, Romo, Atwater, Crocket, Cadrez, Burns, Niel Smith, etc

There were 2-3 players who were burners, namely Darrien Gordan other than that, the entire corps of the SB teams could be consider on the slow side.

Where you come up with this stuff is beyond me. Even if you're argument about the Broncos was correct, why would you argue for something that hasn't worked in 12 years?

Is it just out of habit from defending Shanny and his decade of futility?And that's the point, moron.
I've never heard of a defense being called finesse and good in the same sentence.
Of course the finesse/speed part refers to the offense. Small quick OL, good speed at RB, not great, but fast. :welcome:

Our defense was fast from the LB's to our corners. We were massive out front...

Dedhed
11-12-2010, 03:32 PM
And that's the point, moron.

You mean that's the point in retrospect after I pointed out the blatant flaws and omissions in your original take.

Noted.

strafen
11-12-2010, 03:50 PM
You mean that's the point in retrospect after I pointed out the blatant flaws and omissions in your original take.

Noted.It's understood finesse refers to the offense, nimrod.
Ever heard a LB, DT, NT or DE called finesse?
Thought so...

Bob's your Information Minister
11-12-2010, 03:58 PM
I'm trying to remember the last speed/finesse team to win a SB.

The New Orleans Saints.

Not sure when they won the SB, though.