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Quoydogs
11-07-2010, 01:18 PM
With all the trades McD has made. I want to know when he becomes questioned and accountable for them ?

There have been trades and with the exception of Cutler and Dawkins they have all been bad moves.

brncs_fan
11-07-2010, 01:19 PM
With all the trades McD has made. I want to know when he becomes questioned and accountable for them ?

There have been trades and with the exception of Cutler and Dawkins they have all been bad moves.

I wasn't aware that he wasn't being held accountable for them. Are you missing the weekly Hillis threads and posts about his performance?

Clockwork Orange
11-07-2010, 01:19 PM
Now seems like a pretty good time.

Dr. Broncenstein
11-07-2010, 01:20 PM
http://item.slide.com/r/1/50/i/cCh_cHoVrz8c5KerB8IgW8LRrGEeJMCX/

tsiguy96
11-07-2010, 01:20 PM
marshall had 30 yards and i think 2 drops today, fyi. cutler trade does not need explanations.

phons got beat out by 3 rookies in camp this year, mcd would be lying to media, fans and coaches if he let him stay when he was NOT the best player. phons admitted multiple times that he knew he messed up here, im glad hes doing good in detroit, but 90% of the people on this forum called for his release in preseason, and now taht hes doing good, they act like they wanted him here all along.

hillis trade was a total disaster. scheffler trade was not great, we dont need him here but should have gotten more for him.

oubronco
11-07-2010, 01:21 PM
http://item.slide.com/r/1/50/i/cCh_cHoVrz8c5KerB8IgW8LRrGEeJMCX/

:spit::spit::spit:

oubronco
11-07-2010, 01:22 PM
marshall had 30 yards and i think 2 drops today, fyi. cutler trade does not need explanations.

phons got beat out by 3 rookies in camp this year, mcd would be lying to media, fans and coaches if he let him stay when he was NOT the best player. phons admitted multiple times that he knew he messed up here, im glad hes doing good in detroit, but 90% of the people on this forum called for his release in preseason, and now taht hes doing good, they act like they wanted him here all along.

hillis trade was a total disaster. scheffler trade was not great, we dont need him here but should have gotten more for him.

Saying Nate Fuggin Jones is better to keep than Smith is laughable

NFLBRONCO
11-07-2010, 01:22 PM
Dawkins trade?

tsiguy96
11-07-2010, 01:23 PM
Saying Nate Fuggin Jones is better to keep than Smith is laughable

nate is a backup safety/CB, versatility wins roster spots in this league. i agree jones is awful, but its just how it is.

RunSilentRunDeep
11-07-2010, 01:23 PM
I'm okay with the Marshall trade considering it got Brandon Lloyd on the field, saved a ton of money and got two second-round picks. I loved trading down twice in the first round and ending up with Bey-Bey.

My judgment is reserved for a couple of years on Tebow (I wanted Terrence Cody in the second round more).

Dawkins wasn't a trade.

Inkana7
11-07-2010, 01:24 PM
One thing I've always loved about the Orange Mane is that people here actually think that fans have a say in how the organization is run. That we can hold people accountable and change things. It's hilarious.

epicSocialism4tw
11-07-2010, 01:24 PM
Dawkins was a free agent.

But as for the trades, every single one of them has sucked.

I think its pretty much wrapped up that the McD administration makes nonsensical, horrible trades.

oubronco
11-07-2010, 01:24 PM
nate is a backup safety/CB, versatility wins roster spots in this league. i agree jones is awful, but its just how it is.

A shytty versatile guy is not better to keep than a young guy with alot of potential that you traded a 1st round pick on

go_broncos
11-07-2010, 01:28 PM
One thing I've always loved about the Orange Mane is that people here actually think that fans have a say in how the organization is run. That we can hold people accountable and change things. It's hilarious.

why are you here??..what is their to discuss as organization will not hear what you say.

Bronc62
11-07-2010, 01:40 PM
Oh what could have been...a defensive-minded HC for Broncs, Spagnuolo or Morris, keeping Hillis, Marshall, even Cutler, drafting Orakpo #12 in '09, trade down in 1st round '10 draft to get Pouncey. We'd be rollin right now.

WolfpackGuy
11-07-2010, 01:48 PM
Dawkins was a free agent.

But as for the trades, every single one of them has sucked.

I think its pretty much wrapped up that the McD administration makes nonsensical, horrible trades.

http://politiclolz.com/files/2009/09/20090909-You-Lie.jpg

That One Guy
11-07-2010, 02:03 PM
Phonz's failure is still McDs issue. Why keep drafting CBs if you have Champ, Goodman, Phonz, etc? There were plenty of other areas to go with the team. It'd be like drafting 3 QBs and then claiming to not understand why everyone's upset that you cut talent. Sure you did but you backed yourself into that position.

Popps
11-07-2010, 02:04 PM
I wasn't aware that he wasn't being held accountable for them. Are you missing the weekly Hillis threads and posts about his performance?

Yea, that McDaniels has gotten a free ride from the media and fans, huh?


It's fair, though. Trade a fan-fav like Hillis and then your running game sucks... and people are going to complain.

He can remedy it all by getting this team on track, but that's going to take work and time. We'll see whether or not it happens.

Quoydogs
11-07-2010, 02:20 PM
Sorry I thought we gave up a late round pick for Dawkins My bad.

I understand that the fans have been on him but what I am talking about is, when does Bowlen step in and say, no more.

That One Guy
11-07-2010, 02:24 PM
Sorry I thought we gave up a late round pick for Dawkins My bad.

I understand that the fans have been on him but what I am talking about is, when does Bowlen step in and say, no more.

I sincerely believe the OL makes a bigger difference than any RB does. No RB can open his own holes. I'm not a big fan of McD but it shouldn't be the Hillis factor and his success that gets McD fired.

rbackfactory80
11-07-2010, 02:25 PM
What definitely makes it worse is that 2 of our so called castoffs turned into the Browns and Lions best players.

HEAV
11-07-2010, 02:32 PM
Watching run-over the Pats hurts, but I'm not sure he would have the same success with the Broncos current O-line.

TheChamp24
11-07-2010, 02:36 PM
What bugs me the most about the Hillis trade is it was for Brady Quinn. Thats fine if you think Quinn might be your QB in the future, but then taking Tebow absolutely made that trade terrible by trading a versatile RB for a #3 QB.

WolfpackGuy
11-07-2010, 02:46 PM
What bugs me the most about the Hillis trade is it was for Brady Quinn. Thats fine if you think Quinn might be your QB in the future, but then taking Tebow absolutely made that trade terrible by trading a versatile RB for a #3 QB.

Who was gonna be cut by the Browns anyway.

vancejohnson82
11-07-2010, 02:58 PM
did anyone see Alphonso get beat by Braylon Edwards for a 78 yard TD with 17 seconds left in the first half (basically, a stupid bite by him)

didnt think so...

we just watch ex players highlights

Br0nc0Buster
11-07-2010, 03:08 PM
Cutler traded - good trade
Marshall trade - good trade
Hillis trade - bad trade
Alphonso trade - bad trade
Scheffler trade - so so trade

We got a lot of good stuff for dumping that loser Cutler, and we also got good value for a player we didnt need in Marshall

he botched the Hillis trade and the Smith one as well
however if anyone thinks Hillis would have remotely the same success behind this line and this scheme is nuts, he would be fairing no better than Moreno

overall a solid job

frerottenextelway
11-07-2010, 03:11 PM
I think the record speaks for itself on if the the trades were good or not.

tsiguy96
11-07-2010, 03:12 PM
Cutler traded - good trade
Marshall trade - good trade
Hillis trade - bad trade
Alphonso trade - bad trade
Scheffler trade - so so trade

We got a lot of good stuff for dumping that loser Cutler, and we also got good value for a player we didnt need in Marshall

he botched the Hillis trade and the Smith one as well
however if anyone thinks Hillis would have remotely the same success behind this line and this scheme is nuts, he would be fairing no better than Moreno

overall a solid job

given the circumstance, the alphonso trade was not that bad either. in hindsight, it was awful.

Br0nc0Buster
11-07-2010, 03:17 PM
I think the record speaks for itself on if the the trades were good or not.

considering that players we got in those trades are either rookies who dont play very often(Thomas, Tebow, Decker, etc..)

or players who are hurt(Ayers)

no record does not at all reflect how the trades turned out

we wont see the benefits of these until these young players start playing more

Mr.Meanie
11-07-2010, 03:20 PM
I've been working through quite a few beers this afternoon, but here is what I can think of off the top of my head:

Trades:

Cutler trade = win
Marshall trade = win
Sheffler trade = win
Smith/Hochstein = win (push?)
Draft day trading 2010 = win

Draft day trading 2009 = lose
Hillis trade = lose
Smith trade = lose
Maroney trade = lose

Free Agency:

Win:
Lloyd
Gaffney
Dawkins
Goodman
Hill
Vickerson
Bannan
Williams

Lose:
Green
Who else?

tsiguy96
11-07-2010, 03:24 PM
I've been working through quite a few beers this afternoon, but here is what I can think of off the top of my head:

Trades:

Cutler trade = win
Marshall trade = win
Sheffler trade = loss/push
Smith/Hochstein = win (push?)
Draft day trading 2010 = win

Draft day trading 2009 = lose
Hillis trade = lose
Smith trade = lose
Maroney trade = lose

Free Agency:

Win:
Lloyd
Gaffney
Dawkins
Goodman
Hill
Vickerson
Bannan
Williams

Lose:
Green
Who else?

only thing i can think of to change.

Jetmeck
11-07-2010, 03:25 PM
One thing I've always loved about the Orange Mane is that people here actually think that fans have a say in how the organization is run. That we can hold people accountable and change things. It's hilarious.

I am sorry for you then. Why don't we follow the Chief fans example and keep filling the stands when the team and coaching stinks as they did for years ! We have a choice !

Mr.Meanie
11-07-2010, 03:31 PM
only thing i can think of to change.

The Scheffler trade got us Cox, who I would trade straight up for every single time.

steeledude
11-07-2010, 03:33 PM
A lot of people just don't seem to see the inherent problem with the trades McD has made. Sure, we've seemed to have replaced Marshall and Cutler with a QB who also throws for big yards and no touchdowns. But instead of drafting in the trenches where we need help, we've spent the last two years trading away star players and drafting their replacements.

Four number 1 picks in two years. A running back, a QB, and a wide receiver, were three of those. Three of which we already had. And regardless of Cutler's issues, at this point I take him over the raw unproven Tebow.

Not that I trust McD could have drafted good d-linemen and linebackers and o-linemen, but that's what we needed. We didn't need to trade away the areas of talent on our team and then try to replace them. Our team is, at its best, exactly where it was when Shanahan left. You can make the argument we'd be better without injuries. Shanny's last year was injury riddled too and he still went 8-8.

The trades are indicative of McD's biggest failures as a headcoach.

Florida_Bronco
11-07-2010, 03:37 PM
only thing i can think of to change.

Even the Hillis trade isn't a lose.

go_broncos
11-07-2010, 03:40 PM
even the hillis trade isn't a lose.

lol

gunns
11-07-2010, 03:45 PM
The absolute worst was Maroney. Translation: A 4th rounder for nothing. A 4th rounder for a player that hasn't done squat since he was drafted. Just unbelievable. And you could say the same for the Hillis trade.

tsiguy96
11-07-2010, 03:47 PM
The absolute worst was Maroney. Translation: A 4th rounder for nothing. A 4th rounder for a player that hasn't done squat since he was drafted. Just unbelievable. And you could say the same for the Hillis trade.

we got a 6th back with maroney, fyi. still hate the trade though. mcdaniels is so caught up on RBs being able to block and do all this other stuff, that he forgets that at some point he needs one who can run the ball. hell, maroney cant even block to save ortons life.

broncolife
11-07-2010, 04:12 PM
Also we traded a 5th for Le Kevin Smith and a 7th

Florida_Bronco
11-07-2010, 04:15 PM
Also we traded a 5th for Le Kevin Smith and a 7th

That was part of the Hochstein trade.

zdoor
11-07-2010, 04:28 PM
A lot of people just don't seem to see the inherent problem with the trades McD has made. Sure, we've seemed to have replaced Marshall and Cutler with a QB who also throws for big yards and no touchdowns. But instead of drafting in the trenches where we need help, we've spent the last two years trading away star players and drafting their replacements.

Four number 1 picks in two years. A running back, a QB, and a wide receiver, were three of those. Three of which we already had. And regardless of Cutler's issues, at this point I take him over the raw unproven Tebow.

Not that I trust McD could have drafted good d-linemen and linebackers and o-linemen, but that's what we needed. We didn't need to trade away the areas of talent on our team and then try to replace them. Our team is, at its best, exactly where it was when Shanahan left. You can make the argument we'd be better without injuries. Shanny's last year was injury riddled too and he still went 8-8.

The trades are indicative of McD's biggest failures as a headcoach.

Good post. Pretty much agree with everything you wrote...

tsiguy96
11-07-2010, 04:29 PM
gotta look at the dline talent over last few years, no one even close to our draft area who has done anything in NFL. cant just draft a position because you need help there, or you end up with jarvis moss

gunns
11-07-2010, 04:33 PM
we got a 6th back with maroney, fyi. still hate the trade though. mcdaniels is so caught up on RBs being able to block and do all this other stuff, that he forgets that at some point he needs one who can run the ball. hell, maroney cant even block to save ortons life.

Sorry, a 6th, after giving a 4th for nothing, to me is still nothing.

WolfpackGuy
11-07-2010, 04:35 PM
gotta look at the dline talent over last few years, no one even close to our draft area who has done anything in NFL. cant just draft a position because you need help there, or you end up with jarvis moss

So you don't think any of the defensive linemen they've passed over would start at some point on the 2009 and 2010 defenses?

tsiguy96
11-07-2010, 04:47 PM
So you don't think any of the defensive linemen they've passed over would start at some point on the 2009 and 2010 defenses?

im positive they would, but would they have been worth teh draft selection at the time, and would they be a better option than what we have now? not a lot of great Dline coming out recently besides suh, raji etc who we werent in position to take.

CEH
11-07-2010, 05:18 PM
A lot of people just don't seem to see the inherent problem with the trades McD has made. Sure, we've seemed to have replaced Marshall and Cutler with a QB who also throws for big yards and no touchdowns. But instead of drafting in the trenches where we need help, we've spent the last two years trading away star players and drafting their replacements.

Four number 1 picks in two years. A running back, a QB, and a wide receiver, were three of those. Three of which we already had. And regardless of Cutler's issues, at this point I take him over the raw unproven Tebow.

Not that I trust McD could have drafted good d-linemen and linebackers and o-linemen, but that's what we needed. We didn't need to trade away the areas of talent on our team and then try to replace them. Our team is, at its best, exactly where it was when Shanahan left. You can make the argument we'd be better without injuries. Shanny's last year was injury riddled too and he still went 8-8.

The trades are indicative of McD's biggest failures as a headcoach.


I too have posted this same sentiment. Doesn't make sense to me to follow that draft strategy trade one draft one but whatever

yerner
11-07-2010, 05:19 PM
You know what, since the result is a 2-6 team, they've all been terrible. Ask me again at the end of the season and I might have a different opinion.

Broncoman13
11-07-2010, 05:28 PM
Yea, that McDaniels has gotten a free ride from the media and fans, huh?


It's fair, though. Trade a fan-fav like Hillis and then your running game sucks... and people are going to complain.

He can remedy it all by getting this team on track, but that's going to take work and time. We'll see whether or not it happens.

When Hillis is rumbling for 180 yards and two TDs vs one of the top teams in the AFC it's not gonna matter what our running game is doing or whether Hillis was a fan fav or not. What matters is our run game isn't going and Hillis is. Look at BMarsh. It would be the same situation if Lloyd wasn't putting up Pro-bowl caliber #s.

lostknight
11-07-2010, 05:32 PM
Wow. Denial, not just a river in Egypt. Seriously, there are people who still think the Scheffler/Hillis trades were good?

tsiguy96
11-07-2010, 06:00 PM
When Hillis is rumbling for 180 yards and two TDs vs one of the top teams in the AFC it's not gonna matter what our running game is doing or whether Hillis was a fan fav or not. What matters is our run game isn't going and Hillis is. Look at BMarsh. It would be the same situation if Lloyd wasn't putting up Pro-bowl caliber #s.

its not just lloyd, we have 3 receivers doing good and DT has been absolutely ridiculous with the ball in his hand. marshall hasnt done a whole lot this year.

Cito Pelon
11-07-2010, 10:54 PM
Eh, the trades have been mostly on the positive side. The team didn't need Marshall all that much, got two 2's; Cutler leads the league in turnovers every dang year, got good value for him; Scheffler isn't all that good; Maroney and a 6th for a 4th was good value; Hochstein and LeKevin for a 5th was good value.

On the other hand, they didn't get equal value for Hillis or Phons, and the draft day wheeling and dealing can certainly be construed as lopsided negatively.

TheChamp24
11-08-2010, 06:27 AM
Eh, the trades have been mostly on the positive side. The team didn't need Marshall all that much, got two 2's; Cutler leads the league in turnovers every dang year, got good value for him; Scheffler isn't all that good; Maroney and a 6th for a 4th was good value; Hochstein and LeKevin for a 5th was good value.

On the other hand, they didn't get equal value for Hillis or Phons, and the draft day wheeling and dealing can certainly be construed as lopsided negatively.

Most of the trades have been positive?
The Cutler trade looking back is positive, Marshall trade currently is a push.
Maroney is terrible, its like trading a 4th for a 6th round pick. Terrible.
Hillis and Phons were terrible decisions.
Heck, we traded Marshall away, and instead of drafting help on defense, he drafts a WR to replace Marshall.

jhns
11-08-2010, 06:35 AM
marshall had 30 yards and i think 2 drops today, fyi. cutler trade does not need explanations.

phons got beat out by 3 rookies in camp this year, mcd would be lying to media, fans and coaches if he let him stay when he was NOT the best player. phons admitted multiple times that he knew he messed up here, im glad hes doing good in detroit, but 90% of the people on this forum called for his release in preseason, and now taht hes doing good, they act like they wanted him here all along.

hillis trade was a total disaster. scheffler trade was not great, we dont need him here but should have gotten more for him.

It is pretty funny reading stuff on this forum. "McDaniels moves have been the right ones! That is why we keep getting worse! There is one or two that might be bad but other than that they are great! You get worse by making good moves!"

None of his moves have been good other than a few FA signings. Not even the Cutler one. Cutler has done a LOT more for his team than Orton has done here. I wish we had a QB that could win a close game in the 4th. Lord knows we've had the chances.... As for Marshall, it isn't just about his catches. Learn something about football. I'm pretty sure he is on pace for 100 catches anyways. What a dumb response.

Denver724
11-08-2010, 06:36 AM
From John Clayton's ESPN Last Call...

The Browns continue to make the Broncos and Josh McDaniels look bad for the Peyton Hillis (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=11461) trade. Hillis had 184 yards against the Patriots, and the Broncos are struggling to find a running game.

zdoor
11-08-2010, 07:11 AM
The biggest problems with all the trades, as was already stated, is that we are only moving laterally because we're replacing what was traded away. What's worse, in most cases there is a legitimate argument that we are not moving forward but backward. It's not like we traded surplus talent to fill areas we were deficient. In fact most the areas that were weak when McDaniels took over are still just as weak now if not weaker.

Most posters who don't revel in everything McDaniels did not like the Phons acquisition (because of what we gave up), the Hillis (sure would have been nice to have Hillis' production, and another stud with the pick used on Knowshon) trade and the Maroney trade.

We are at best the same team we were when Shanahan left and at this point the future does not like brighter with the moves McDaniels has made so far. The fact that we've had a surplus of picks in the 1st and 2nd and still look weak in the same areas doesn't make me confident looking forward to future drafts under the current regime.

Like most fans, I would rather be wrong and hope things turn around but based on where we are and where we've been over the last 2 years I have yet to see anything confidence inspiring. Tebow is pretty much McDaniels last hope of holding onto his job barring a miracle turn around this year.

Quoydogs
11-08-2010, 08:36 AM
There was a poster in here that said the big problem is Mcd used picks to fill spots that were not a problem until he traded our star players away. For the most part he hit the nail on the head.

We had an offense that was putting up 30 points a game before he took over. Just look at where we would have been if we would have used our pick on Defense instead.

I am not saying for him not to change the O the way he wanted it but why slaughter something that is working and leave our D which is not working with the left overs.

I hate Jerry Jones but what he is doing right now is correct. He saw that his team was failing and has called a coaches meeting and it looks like wade may be done.

I'm am not calling for Joshes head but I think it's time the FO has a meeting with him and says you need to fix this or you're gone.

Jesterhole
11-08-2010, 09:11 AM
There was a poster in here that said the big problem is Mcd used picks to fill spots that were not a problem until he traded our star players away. For the most part he hit the nail on the head.

We had an offense that was putting up 30 points a game before he took over. Just look at where we would have been if we would have used our pick on Defense instead.

I am not saying for him not to change the O the way he wanted it but why slaughter something that is working and leave our D which is not working with the left overs.

I hate Jerry Jones but what he is doing right now is correct. He saw that his team was failing and has called a coaches meeting and it looks like wade may be done.

I'm am not calling for Joshes head but I think it's time the FO has a meeting with him and says you need to fix this or you're gone.

That pretty much falls on Bowlen and Ellis. They knew the kind of team we had here, and instead of hiring a defensive minded guy, or a personal expert...they hired a 32 year old coordinator who turned around and hired his brother straight out of the ranks of High School, and who has done everything in his power to dismantle anything Shanahan had built on the offense.

bendog
11-08-2010, 09:15 AM
That pretty much falls on Bowlen and Ellis. They knew the kind of team we had here, and instead of hiring a defensive minded guy, or a personal expert...they hired a 32 year old coordinator who turned around and hired his brother straight out of the ranks of High School, and who has done everything in his power to dismantle anything Shanahan had built on the offense.

Do you think Bowlen and Ellis are not on board with the personnel moves and lowering the payroll? I think they're the ones behind putting out this crap team.