PDA

View Full Version : Paige: Orton's stats don't tell truth


Bronco Rob
11-07-2010, 04:34 AM
Paige: Orton's stats don't tell truth


Kyle Orton we're informed, ad infinitum is on pace to challenge Dan Marino's all-time, NFL single-season passing record of 5,084 yards.

Kyle Orton I'm here to notify you also is on pace to become the only quarterback among the top 10 all-time single-season passing leaders in league history to finish with a losing record.

Kyle Orton also is on pace to become the first quarterback on that list to be displaced during his record-setting season.

At the midpoint of the 2010 season, and 24 games into his term as the Broncos' quarterback, Orton has proved he is a passer and a loser. In games Orton has started or finished, he has thrown for 6,311 yards, and the Broncos have lost 14 times.

Just before the season, some rich yahoo who claimed to be one of Orton's closest friends stopped me at a local golf course and shrieked: "When you gonna give Kyle Orton credit?"

My answer: "Not today. When he deserves it."

Kyle Orton does deserve credit for fooling the Broncos into extending his contract to two years for $11.4 million ($8.1 mil guaranteed).

Otherwise, not today.

Jay Cutler established the Broncos' single-season passing mark at 4,526 yards in 2008. The Broncos were 8-8. So much for that stat. (Jake Plummer is No. 2, and where's he?)

Coach Josh McDaniels, The QB Maker, was being prodded by the media early in the season to compliment Orton's impressive statistical start. McDaniels replied that he judged quarterbacks on victories, third- and fourth-down conversions and scoring inside the 20-yard line.

He should have added success in the fourth quarter.

So, using McDaniels' three criteria, and my additional measure of goodness:

The Broncos are 2-6, with four consecutive losses.

The Broncos are 22nd overall in the league in third- down conversions 36.6 percent and have made first downs on fourth downs 27.3 percent of the time (3-of-11), 26th in the NFL.

The Broncos are 20th in red-zone scoring (41.3 percent), or 1.5 touchdowns or field goals for every 3.6 trips to the red zone. (Opponents have scored 69.5 percent.)

In fourth quarters, the Broncos have managed four touchdowns and four field goals. They also have eight punts, two fumbles, three interceptions, four lame efforts on fourth down, one Kyle Orton kneel down (in a victory) and one game in which the clock ran out on the Broncos. In 26 fourth- quarter possessions when the Broncos tried to score, they had a success rate of 30.8 percent.

Examine the fourth quarter offensive possessions game-by-game (backward):

The 24-16 loss to the 49ers field goal, punt, fumble by Orton, touchdown pass by Orton, interception.

The 59-14 loss to the Raiders punt, punt, turnover on downs.

The 24-20 loss to the Jets punt, punt, field goal, fumble.

The 31-17 loss to the Ravens field goal, punt, touchdown.

The 26-20 victory over the Titans interception, fourth-down stop, touchdown, field goal.

The 27-13 loss to the Colts fourth-and-3 failure at Indy 12, fourth-and-13 failure on Indy 20, clock runs out on Indy 25.

The 31-14 victory over the Seahawks touchdown, punt, punt, kneel down.

The 24-17 loss to the Jaguars field goal, fourth- and-3 failure at Jacksonville 14, interception.

Very ugly. Four of those games may have been won without fourth-quarter interceptions, fumbles and mistakes, and a pass interference call at the goal line (vs. the Jets). Another of those games could have been lost without a fourth-quarter pass-interference call at the goal line (vs. Titans).

It must be brought up again that in those eight games, the Broncos have scored one touchdown (against the Seahawks) in the opening quarter. They are averaging fewer than three points for the combined first and fourth quarters this season.

Orton will never star in a movie titled "A Man For All Quarters."

He certainly isn't completely to blame for a season gone in the tank. McDaniels, the offensive line, the entire defense and multiple injuries share in the responsibility, but the quarterback is the Most Important Man.

Orton has been able to throw up and down the field, but he's not engineering victories.

Since the advent of the wild card, no 2-6 team has made the playoffs. The Broncos will have to win their five remaining division games to have any chance at first in the AFC West, and they're ahead of only one team in the entire conference the counterfeit Bills for a wild-card spot.

Orton just might set the record for most passing yards by season's end, or he might just end up on the bench at the end of the season. Either way, how hollow.



http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_16545663

NYBronco
11-07-2010, 04:52 AM
I'll give Grover... err Paige credit, Orton's stats really don't tell the whole story. Lost in those numbers are the struggles of the young, injured and inconsistent offensive line and the oppositions ability to take advantage of this fact. Do I need to mention the lack of a running game or a defense that can't make timely three and outs. How about special team breakdowns. Orton is responding to what he is given.

Also even more interesting is the timing of this article with talk of Orton's shoulder injury.

HILife
11-07-2010, 05:55 AM
Sure help if we had a run game....and a defense.....and an Oline.....and a new team.

tsiguy96
11-07-2010, 06:26 AM
I'll give Grover... err Paige credit, Orton's stats really don't tell the whole story. Lost in those numbers are the struggles of the young, injured and inconsistent offensive line and the oppositions ability to take advantage of this fact. Do I need to mention the lack of a running game or a defense that can't make timely three and outs. How about special team breakdowns. Orton is responding to what he is given.

Also even more interesting is the timing of this article with talk of Orton's shoulder injury.

i love how everyone puts everything back on ortons shoulders, earlier this year he was deemed the most important player to this team, if he goes down its over. now that hes playing pretty damn good with an absolute **** supporting cast around him (minus WR) its his fault? maybe if the D would force a few stops, or they would get more then 3 ypc running the ball, or stop allowing consistent pressure, something might change. paige is the same jackass taht called for chris simms last year, and look how that turned out, so he comes straight back calling for someone other than orton again this year?

CEH
11-07-2010, 07:33 AM
Again we drafted TIm Tebow. Nothing really has changed. Orton is putting up empty numbers mainly because we have no running game but when the games are close in the 4th (and Paige has pointed out most games have been winnable in the 4th expecpt two) winning and 3rd downs in general are where the QB makes his living.

Kyle is an average QB who is above average with Josh but doesn't have the leadership after 5 years in the league . If this were Tim Tebow blwoing it in the 4th I could live with a rookie making mistakes but not a 5th year guy.

This is a "do good" league not a "try hard " league and between Orton and Knowshown we have a couple try hard guys

Dukes
11-07-2010, 07:35 AM
Woody, you wanted Chris Simms last year. Now shut the ***** up. That is all

broncogary
11-07-2010, 07:40 AM
Woody, you wanted Chris Simms last year. Now shut the ***** up. That is all

And that goes double for you, Buff. LOL

tsiguy96
11-07-2010, 07:42 AM
Again we drafted TIm Tebow. Nothing really has changed. Orton is putting up empty numbers mainly because we have no running game but when the games are close in the 4th (and Paige has pointed out most games have been winnable in the 4th expecpt two) winning and 3rd downs in general are where the QB makes his living.

Kyle is an average QB who is above average with Josh but doesn't have the leadership after 5 years in the league . If this were Tim Tebow blwoing it in the 4th I could live with a rookie making mistakes but not a 5th year guy.

This is a "do good" league not a "try hard " league and between Orton and Knowshown we have a couple try hard guys

first, where did knowshon come into this? he runs pretty damn good when he gets an opportunity to take it past LOS.

second, when did "leadership" ever come into question, and how does that make the difference between orton completing a 3rd down pass or not?

and last, when did guys who "try hard" become a bad thing" ? is giving full effort on every play a bad thing to you retards now?

this place is becoming almost unbearable with ridiculous ****ing posts with no scope of reality at all.

CEH
11-07-2010, 07:57 AM
first, where did knowshon come into this? he runs pretty damn good when he gets an opportunity to take it past LOS.

second, when did "leadership" ever come into question, and how does that make the difference between orton completing a 3rd down pass or not?

and last, when did guys who "try hard" become a bad thing" ? is giving full effort on every play a bad thing to you retards now?

this place is becoming almost unbearable with ridiculous ****ing posts with no scope of reality at all.

Retard?. Namecalling is for the weak who have no logical rebuttal. Doesn't phase me at all and for you is par for the course

Calling Josh and John Elway retards makes you look like a "retard"

QBing is about leaderhip, finding a way to win late and 3rd down. Ask Josh, Ask John Elway who said the same thing as Josh on his radio show last Friday (I'll find it if you want)

A bunch of "try hard" guys will not win in this league. I equated "try hard" to both Orton (and Knowshown )

tsiguy96
11-07-2010, 08:03 AM
Retard?. Namecalling is for the weak who have no logical rebuttal. Doesn't phase me at all and for you is par for the course

Calling Josh and John Elway retards makes you look like a "retard"

QBing is about leaderhip, finding a way to win late and 3rd down. Ask Josh, Ask John Elway who said the same thing as Josh on his radio show last Friday (I'll find it if you want)

A bunch of "try hard" guys will not win in this league. I equated "try hard" to both Orton (and Knowshown )

like mcdaniels said himself, QBs make their money on 3rd down, but leadership is not the ability to complete a 6 yard pass on 3rd and 5. leadership is not tangible my friend, its a guy others can rally around when **** is getting bad, or can celebrate with when its going great. we know, for a fact, orton can celebrate with teh best of them. every report weve ever heard about ortons leadership has been he has full control of the offense, and we have little to dispute that with. whether hes successful on 3rd down is not a result of whether guys will rally around him to play hard.

That One Guy
11-07-2010, 08:14 AM
I find it quite interesting that Orton had one of the highest win percentages in the league when he left Chicago where he was just a game manager. Now, he's here throwing up great stats and losing.

It definitely suggests other pieces of the pie come into the equation.

NYBronco
11-07-2010, 08:18 AM
i love how everyone puts everything back on ortons shoulders, earlier this year he was deemed the most important player to this team, if he goes down its over. now that hes playing pretty damn good with an absolute **** supporting cast around him (minus WR) its his fault? maybe if the D would force a few stops, or they would get more then 3 ypc running the ball, or stop allowing consistent pressure, something might change. paige is the same jackass taht called for chris simms last year, and look how that turned out, so he comes straight back calling for someone other than orton again this year?

I'm an Orton/McD fan and it's funny to watch, read and listen to people/fans criticise him (Orton) for his efforts and ignore all the struggles around them. If it were Cutler/Shanahan all would be good and the Broncos would be openly recognized as a team rebuilding.

All Denver needs to do is get a couple of TD early leads and the whole scheme of how this team performs will change and how the opposition reacts. The opposition is obviously taking advantage of the Bronco inexperience weakness' early which hopefully will translate into a quicker learning curve for the young Broncos. Last year as I recall the raiders and chiefs olines were very porous, this year they seem to have shown some improvement perhaps looking at the raiders/chiefs the Broncos are looking at their future. But the football gods forbid the Broncos growing pains get any recognition or forgiveness.

CEH
11-07-2010, 08:19 AM
like mcdaniels said himself, QBs make their money on 3rd down, but leadership is not the ability to complete a 6 yard pass on 3rd and 5. leadership is not tangible my friend, its a guy others can rally around when **** is getting bad, or can celebrate with when its going great. we know, for a fact, orton can celebrate with teh best of them. every report weve ever heard about ortons leadership has been he has full control of the offense, and we have little to dispute that with. whether hes successful on 3rd down is not a result of whether guys will rally around him to play hard.

Your comes backs are getting lamer and lamer by the moment

Since when does partying well have anything to do with playing QB in the NFL? Full control. Paige just laid out specific examples where the QB did not step up in the 4th when things weren't going well.

If you continue to fail on 3rd and 5 with the game on the line you think that doesn't dovetail directly to leadership. The ability for the other members of your team to believe you will make a play when times are tough?

Again address the criteria by which most knowledagle football ppl including the HC and the 23rd greatest player of all time judge a QB on.

BTW I don't have to agree with Woodrow when these are the facts staring me in the face

TD/pass - 3.8% 24th in league
3rd down pass % - 39% 22nd in league
Redzone pass % - 40.8% 33rd in league
Picks in 4th Qrt - 3 Fourth most in NFL
Parting with teammates - 100% 1st in the league

Leadership as define by TSIGuy. "The ability to celebrate when times are good"

I'm done because now we are discussing how well Orton parties

strafen
11-07-2010, 08:20 AM
Sure help if we had a run game....and a defense.....and an Oline.....and a new team.Wrong!
The bottom line is that Orton had the ball last in a few of those games with a chance to win it.
HE turned the ball over to end the game and our chances in more than one occasion so far this year
.
Please, stop defending that bum. Orton is just average at best.
DL, OL, running game all affect the game. That's the head coach's fault, but turnng the ball over and failure to pull a win when we needed it the most, has shown how inept Kyle Orton really is.
BTW, Woody is right.
Show me where is he wrong?

strafen
11-07-2010, 08:28 AM
I find it quite interesting that Orton had one of the highest win percentages in the league when he left Chicago where he was just a game manager. Now, he's here throwing up great stats and losing.
It definitely suggests other pieces of the pie come into the equation.

Simple. He's got a great defense that also scored.
Orton is not a franchise QB.
He comes over here and he's trying to overachieve way beyond his capabilities to hold on to his job. He has failed to deliever late in the game(s).
He had his chances as Woody pointed out, and I've also been saying the same thng before this article got published.

Yes, other pieces come into the equation like you've said, but it may take a while getting those pieces together so Orton can win. That my friend, doesn't sound good...

tsiguy96
11-07-2010, 08:28 AM
Your comes backs are getting lamer and lamer by the moment

Since when does partying well have anything to do with playing QB in the NFL? Full control. Paige just laid out specific examples where the QB did not step up in the 4th when things weren't going well.

If you continue to fail on 3rd and 5 with the game on the line you think that doesn't dovetail directly to leadership. The ability for the other members of your team to believe you will make a play when times are tough?

Again address the criteria by which most knowledagle football ppl including the HC and the 23rd greatest player of all time judge a QB on.

I'm done because now we are discussing how well Orton parties

the fact that you agree with paige on anything is pretty telling of your argument. im not even sure if paige has been in a broncos locker room for the past 2 years, and god knows you dont know anything specific about the denver locker room or what they believe is going on. orton was elected captain for a reason, and deemed early on to be the most important player on this team. that wasnt an accident. but ignore facts, go back to speculation.

orangemonkey
11-07-2010, 09:02 AM
the fact that you agree with paige on anything is pretty telling of your argument.

I'd say McDaniel's also agrees with Woody's main point here so what's your point? You judge a quarterback by their ability to convert 3rd/4th downs, execute in the red zone, play clutch in the 4th qtr and lead the team to victory. Orton has failed in all 4 categories most of last year and this entire season. Is this 100% Orton's fault? No. Is he the biggest problem with the team? No. But it's delusional to say his play isn't a problem. Orton is the leader of this offense and so far a loser. The fact that McD installs Tebow at the goal line tells me Orton's leadership position will be short-lived in Denver.

tsiguy96
11-07-2010, 09:04 AM
I'd say McDaniel's also agrees with Woody's main point here so what's your point? You judge a quarterback by their ability to convert 3rd/4th downs, execute in the red zone, play clutch in the 4th qtr and lead the team to victory. Orton has failed in all 4 categories most of last year and this entire season. Is this 100% Orton's fault? No. Is he the biggest problem with the team? No. But it's delusional to say his play isn't a problem. Orton is the leader of this offense and so far a loser. The fact that McD installs Tebow at the goal line tells me Orton's leadership position will be short-lived in Denver.

i never said hes perfect, hes far from it and has caused this team its fair share of points and attempts at comebacks with his late picks (jax, 49ers), but he certainly is not the issue and his play, given the circumstances, will be really hard to top by another QB right now.

tebow is running the ball in the end zone, its like moreno lining up a direct snap, except tebow is a lot bigger and atleast has a threat of throwing, even though he never might.

Jason in LA
11-07-2010, 09:09 AM
On first and second down, or outside of the redzone, Orton can get it down, even with the lack of talent around him. But when it really matters he can't. It's as simple as that. The talent doesn't change on third down or in the redzone, so why can he get it done when it doesn't matter, but not when it does?

I'm not about to blame him for this season, but I wouldn't praise him, or say that he's one of the few bright spots, simply because he's putting up a lot of passing yards. Those passing aren't leading to enough scores or wins. Because he's getting them when when it doesn't matter the most.

At one point in the 2nd half of the 49ers game, Orton had like 260 yards passing, but the Broncos only had 10 points and struggled on offense the entire game. I was thinking, where the hell did he get that many yards from? I guess I'm viewing the game more from a production stand point and the Broncos offense wasn't producing much.

So I'd say that Orton is not the problem, but he's not the bright spot either. He is what he is. Not good or bad, just an average quarterback.

orangemonkey
11-07-2010, 09:13 AM
i never said hes perfect, hes far from it and has caused this team its fair share of points and attempts at comebacks with his late picks (jax, 49ers), but he certainly is not the issue and his play, given the circumstances, will be really hard to top by another QB right now.

tebow is running the ball in the end zone, its like moreno lining up a direct snap, except tebow is a lot bigger and atleast has a threat of throwing, even though he never might.

While I respect your opinion (and I know it's shared by a few others here), I don't agree. He's a hard guy not to support. I sure has hell have been proven wrong by his ability to improve YoY but he isn't getting it done when it counts. I'm ready to see what Bronco Jesus can do now.

That One Guy
11-07-2010, 09:18 AM
On first and second down, or outside of the redzone, Orton can get it down, even with the lack of talent around him. But when it really matters he can't. It's as simple as that.

I'm not about to blame him for this season, but I wouldn't praise him, or say that he's one of the few bright spots, simply because he's putting up a lot of passing yards. Those passing aren't leading to enough scores or wins. Because he's getting them when when it doesn't matter the most.

At one point in the 2nd half of the 49ers game, Orton had like 260 yards passing, but the Broncos only had 10 points and struggled on offense the entire game. I was thinking, where the hell did he get that many yards from? I guess I'm viewing the game more from a production stand point and the Broncos offense wasn't producing much.

So I'd say that Orton is not the problem, but he's not the bright spot either. He is what he is. Not good or bad, just an average quarterback.

I really think there's time also when stubborn calls get in the way of the Broncos scoring points. How many times have we seen the Broncos moving the ball just to, for whatever reason, try back to back run plays and the drive completely stalls out. We know we have to pass, they know we have to pass, I'd venture to say we aren't keeping many teams "honest" by forcing a run play when we can't do anything with it. Worst case scenario for the D, we pick up 6 yards. Best case for them, our OL is so pathetic that they still wrap us up after 2-3 yards even without safety help.

I just don't think the forced run plays are as essential as everyone likes to think they are. If they aren't even threatening enough to make the opposition change their formation, they aren't doing anything. The fact that we're passing 40-50 times per game and still not getting any big gains on those forced runs (I'd venture we break an 8 yard rush on average less than once per game?) says that no matter what we're doing, running plays just aren't a threat. I think that's why we get so many yards yet crap out when it matters. Orton can only overcome those wasted downs so many times throughout the duration of a drive.

That One Guy
11-07-2010, 09:21 AM
While I respect your opinion (and I know it's shared by a few others here), I don't agree. He's a hard guy not to support. I sure has hell have been proven wrong by his ability to improve YoY but he isn't getting it done when it counts. I'm ready to see what Bronco Jesus can do now.

Orton is playing better than Plummer was a few years ago and Cutler seemed more ready than Tebow does. That Plummer-Cutler transition was terrible to watch. I remember watching the Cowboys game when Romo replaced Bledsoe and being happy because I thought maybe that'd make it easier for Shanny to make the switch too. I later remember thinking what might've been after that TERRIBLE Seahawks game by Cutler. If only we'd delayed Cutler one more week...

Hamrob
11-07-2010, 09:32 AM
What Orton does well...is play not to lose. He can manage a game and not make mistakes...that's his bread and butter.

What Orton doesn't do well...is find ways to win games. When the game requires the QB to make plays down the stretch....while at the same time still not make mistakes...Orton chokes. He either fumbles or he throws an int.

As bad as this season has seemed. We have been in every game except 1. We could have won a couple more...despite our trouble on defense, running the ball, coaching etc. if Orton could play to win in the 4th Qtr. It's just not there with him.

Orton is a good backup and a good game manager if you have a great defense...ala the Bears....or like the Ravens. Orton is Trent Dilfer II.

Popps
11-07-2010, 09:39 AM
I'll give Grover... err Paige credit, Orton's stats really don't tell the whole story. Lost in those numbers are the struggles of the young, injured and inconsistent offensive line and the oppositions ability to take advantage of this fact. Do I need to mention the lack of a running game or a defense that can't make timely three and outs. How about special team breakdowns. Orton is responding to what he is given.

Also even more interesting is the timing of this article with talk of Orton's shoulder injury.

We all know Paige has gone from a guy who tried to write insightful articles to a guy who simply pens the most inflammatory things he can come up with in hopes to gain readers. I guess this is sort of a sign of the internet times.

Great writers like Legwold are still out there. Guys who can really analyze what they're seeing and give an impartial, informative article to the fans. But, they're fewer and farther between.

Newspapers have to compete with so many sources of internet news now, hacks like Paige can't write a fair article... they've got to put out the trashiest, "raciest" thing they can in desperate hopes to pull readers back to their dying entity.

Remember, this was the guy who promised us the Broncos could go undefeated in 06, and the guy who pounded the table for Chris Simms being the answer to our "problem" at QB last year.

---

As for Orton, there's no question that while he's played extremely well this year and is on pace for Pro Bowl numbers, there are areas he can tighten up. These things come with experience. We saw how much Kyle grew from last year to this year. As NY pointed out, though... these are also things Kyle can't do by himself. When you have no blocking and no running game, and your own team puts you in pass-only situations, it is extremely difficult to be efficient.

How often are we putting Orton in bad situations?

Well, first of all... we know that Kyle has only thrown 5 INTs all year. That's o pace with guys like Manning, Brees, Rivers, etc. So, Kyle certainly isn't putting this team in bad situations on any sort of a regular basis.

Conversely, Orton has had to throw 194 passes when the Broncos were trailing. Compare that with only 39 passes he threw when we had a lead.

See, when you're trailing... particularly late in games, teams get to play you differently. They can drop more guys into coverage... linemen can pin their ears back and crash the QB, etc. Yet, those are things you're never going to hear anyone mentioning when they write "analysis" like Woody's.

Kyle's QB rating when the Broncos are playing from behind is a 92.

Kyle's QB rating in the last 2 minutes of a half/game is 94. (5 TD 2 INT)

Kyle's QB rating in the rare times we've had a lead is over 100.


Let's compare those numbers to the QB from the first-place team in our division, Matt Cassel.

Matt Cassel has only had to throw 51 passes when his team was trailing this season.

Oh, and by the way... Matt Cassel's QB rating when behind is a whopping 65.

(Starting to see a line of reasoning take shape, here?)

Kansas City rushes for 5.2 yards per carry, best in the NFL.

Denver rushes for 2.9 yards per carry, worst in the NFL.

So, when we start to look at 3rd down percentages from QB's... I wonder if those stats should have been in Woody's article.

I wonder if Kyle's 3rd down percentage is at all affected by having the worst running game in the league (creating 3rd and long situations) and having to play behind more than most QB's in the league?


How many times has Kyle Orton been in 3rd and long passing situations? (More than 6 yards)

41 Times

How many times has Matt Cassel been in 3rd and long passing situations?

30 Times



Of course, despite the adversity of having no line, no running game and a defense littered with injuries all season, Kyle has remained as efficient as almost any QB in the league.

So, what we're seeing here is another one of the long list of examples proving a fairly obvious theory I've floated around here for quite some time: When people don't understand what they're seeing, they blame the QB.

Now, with Woody, some of it may be a fundamental lack of knowledge, but most really is just him throwing **** against the wall and hoping some sticks. No one takes him seriously as a journalist, at this point.



This team is lucky to have Kyle Orton, and as always... our future will be determined by the mechanisms we put around him. There are a small handful of QB's in the world who can drag a team to victories by themselves. It's not prudent to sit and wait for one of those to appear. It IS prudent to build a balanced, high-functioning offense/defense... and try to win a championship playing properly in all phases with the best QB available to you. Right now and for the foreseeable future, that's Kyle Orton.

Popps
11-07-2010, 09:41 AM
Orton is Trent Dilfer II.

Thank god for ignore. I finally clicked on "view post," and now I remember why I had you on ignore in the first place.

That's some of the worst analysis I've ever seen.

Dilfer never came close to this kind of season in his life. Orton is on another QB plane comared to Dilfer.

Horrible take.

Thank god for ignore. Back you go.

orangemonkey
11-07-2010, 09:49 AM
We all know Paige has gone from a guy who tried to write insightful articles to a guy who simply pens the most inflammatory things he can come up with in hopes to gain readers. I guess this is sort of a sign of the internet times.

Great writers like Legwold are still out there. Guys who can really analyze what they're seeing and give an impartial, informative article to the fans. But, they're fewer and farther between.

Newspapers have to compete with so many sources of internet news now, hacks like Paige can't write a fair article... they've got to put out the trashiest, "raciest" thing they can in desperate hopes to pull readers back to their dying entity.

Remember, this was the guy who promised us the Broncos could go undefeated in 06, and the guy who pounded the table for Chris Simms being the answer to our "problem" at QB last year.

---

As for Orton, there's no question that while he's played extremely well this year and is on pace for Pro Bowl numbers, there are areas he can tighten up. These things come with experience. We saw how much Kyle grew from last year to this year. As NY pointed out, though... these are also things Kyle can't do by himself. When you have no blocking and no running game, and your own team puts you in pass-only situations, it is extremely difficult to be efficient.

How often are we putting Orton in bad situations?

Well, first of all... we know that Kyle has only thrown 5 INTs all year. That's o pace with guys like Manning, Brees, Rivers, etc. So, Kyle certainly isn't putting this team in bad situations on any sort of a regular basis.

Conversely, Orton has had to throw 194 passes when the Broncos were trailing. Compare that with only 39 passes he threw when we had a lead.

See, when you're trailing... particularly late in games, teams get to play you differently. They can drop more guys into coverage... linemen can pin their ears back and crash the QB, etc. Yet, those are things you're never going to hear anyone mentioning when they write "analysis" like Woody's.

Kyle's QB rating when the Broncos are playing from behind is a 92.

Kyle's QB rating in the last 2 minutes of a half/game is 94. (5 TD 2 INT)

Kyle's QB rating in the rare times we've had a lead is over 100.


Let's compare those numbers to the QB from the first-place team in our division, Matt Cassel.

Matt Cassel has only had to throw 51 passes when his team was trailing this season.

Oh, and by the way... Matt Cassel's QB rating when behind is a whopping 65.

(Starting to see a line of reasoning take shape, here?)

Kansas City rushes for 5.2 yards per carry, best in the NFL.

Denver rushes for 2.9 yards per carry, worst in the NFL.

So, when we start to look at 3rd down percentages from QB's... I wonder if those stats should have been in Woody's article.

I wonder if Kyle's 3rd down percentage is at all affected by having the worst running game in the league (creating 3rd and long situations) and having to play behind more than most QB's in the league?


How many times has Kyle Orton been in 3rd and long passing situations? (More than 6 yards)

41 Times

How many times has Matt Cassel been in 3rd and long passing situations?

30 Times



Of course, despite the adversity of having no line, no running game and a defense littered with injuries all season, Kyle has remained as efficient as almost any QB in the league.

So, what we're seeing here is another one of the long list of examples proving a fairly obvious theory I've floated around here for quite some time: When people don't understand what they're seeing, they blame the QB.

Now, with Woody, some of it may be a fundamental lack of knowledge, but most really is just him throwing **** against the wall and hoping some sticks. No one takes him seriously as a journalist, at this point.



This team is lucky to have Kyle Orton, and as always... our future will be determined by the mechanisms we put around him. There are a small handful of QB's in the world who can drag a team to victories by themselves. It's not prudent to sit and wait for one of those to appear. It IS prudent to build a balanced, high-functioning offense/defense... and try to win a championship playing properly in all phases with the best QB available to you. Right now and for the foreseeable future, that's Kyle Orton.

This post is priceless and will be saved for the future. Thank you Popps. Now it's time for breakfast.

Rigs11
11-07-2010, 09:58 AM
I love how no one brings up the penalties that have killed drives and lost us games this year. Yep it's all on orton when we have illegal shifts, holding, chop blocks. Paige is a moron. We are extremely lucky to have orton. You guys might get your wish to see tebow start. Get ready for absolute embarrass.

Jason in LA
11-07-2010, 10:03 AM
Get ready for absolute embarrass.

We're not already at absolute embarrassment?

Popps
11-07-2010, 10:06 AM
Tebow might just do fine if we put the right game plan in for him. But, he'll likely struggle and won't be able to run this offense properly for at least two years.

Beyond that, as I've said... putting in Tebow is like changing your wiper blades when your transmission is shot.

WolfpackGuy
11-07-2010, 10:10 AM
Too many times the offense just flops around aimlessly in the first half.

7 first quarter points in 8 games is UNACCEPTABLE.

NASurfer
11-07-2010, 10:19 AM
Too many times the offense just flops around aimlessly in the first half.

7 first quarter points in 8 games is UNACCEPTABLE.
I thought being ineffective when the game is still in hand and then chucking some bombs and gaining massive yardage when the opponent is up by 3 -4 TDs is what legends are made of?

Rigs11
11-07-2010, 10:28 AM
We're not already at absolute embarrassment?

Um no. If we had tebow in there IMO we wouldn't have any wins.

go_broncos
11-07-2010, 10:30 AM
Too many times the offense just flops around aimlessly in the first half.

7 first quarter points in 8 games is UNACCEPTABLE.

yep..we alway start slow..too many three and outs.
I don't trust orton when we need a FG/TD to tie or win the game.

go_broncos
11-07-2010, 10:32 AM
Too many times the offense just flops around aimlessly in the first half.

7 first quarter points in 8 games is UNACCEPTABLE.

This is pathetic..I am not sure how some posters here keep supporting the idiot.

CEH
11-07-2010, 10:32 AM
We all know Paige has gone from a guy who tried to write insightful articles to a guy who simply pens the most inflammatory things he can come up with in hopes to gain readers. I guess this is sort of a sign of the internet times.

Great writers like Legwold are still out there. Guys who can really analyze what they're seeing and give an impartial, informative article to the fans. But, they're fewer and farther between.

Newspapers have to compete with so many sources of internet news now, hacks like Paige can't write a fair article... they've got to put out the trashiest, "raciest" thing they can in desperate hopes to pull readers back to their dying entity.

Remember, this was the guy who promised us the Broncos could go undefeated in 06, and the guy who pounded the table for Chris Simms being the answer to our "problem" at QB last year.

---

As for Orton, there's no question that while he's played extremely well this year and is on pace for Pro Bowl numbers, there are areas he can tighten up. These things come with experience. We saw how much Kyle grew from last year to this year. As NY pointed out, though... these are also things Kyle can't do by himself. When you have no blocking and no running game, and your own team puts you in pass-only situations, it is extremely difficult to be efficient.

How often are we putting Orton in bad situations?

Well, first of all... we know that Kyle has only thrown 5 INTs all year. That's o pace with guys like Manning, Brees, Rivers, etc. So, Kyle certainly isn't putting this team in bad situations on any sort of a regular basis.

Conversely, Orton has had to throw 194 passes when the Broncos were trailing. Compare that with only 39 passes he threw when we had a lead.

See, when you're trailing... particularly late in games, teams get to play you differently. They can drop more guys into coverage... linemen can pin their ears back and crash the QB, etc. Yet, those are things you're never going to hear anyone mentioning when they write "analysis" like Woody's.

Kyle's QB rating when the Broncos are playing from behind is a 92.

Kyle's QB rating in the last 2 minutes of a half/game is 94. (5 TD 2 INT)

Kyle's QB rating in the rare times we've had a lead is over 100.


Let's compare those numbers to the QB from the first-place team in our division, Matt Cassel.

Matt Cassel has only had to throw 51 passes when his team was trailing this season.

Oh, and by the way... Matt Cassel's QB rating when behind is a whopping 65.

(Starting to see a line of reasoning take shape, here?)

Kansas City rushes for 5.2 yards per carry, best in the NFL.

Denver rushes for 2.9 yards per carry, worst in the NFL.

So, when we start to look at 3rd down percentages from QB's... I wonder if those stats should have been in Woody's article.

I wonder if Kyle's 3rd down percentage is at all affected by having the worst running game in the league (creating 3rd and long situations) and having to play behind more than most QB's in the league?


How many times has Kyle Orton been in 3rd and long passing situations? (More than 6 yards)

41 Times

How many times has Matt Cassel been in 3rd and long passing situations?

30 Times



Of course, despite the adversity of having no line, no running game and a defense littered with injuries all season, Kyle has remained as efficient as almost any QB in the league.

So, what we're seeing here is another one of the long list of examples proving a fairly obvious theory I've floated around here for quite some time: When people don't understand what they're seeing, they blame the QB.

Now, with Woody, some of it may be a fundamental lack of knowledge, but most really is just him throwing **** against the wall and hoping some sticks. No one takes him seriously as a journalist, at this point.



This team is lucky to have Kyle Orton, and as always... our future will be determined by the mechanisms we put around him. There are a small handful of QB's in the world who can drag a team to victories by themselves. It's not prudent to sit and wait for one of those to appear. It IS prudent to build a balanced, high-functioning offense/defense... and try to win a championship playing properly in all phases with the best QB available to you. Right now and for the foreseeable future, that's Kyle Orton.


Not sure what your trying to tell me here. I could be wrong but I'm guessing if you go look at Ryan Fitzpartick's stats they will be similar to Orton's in all the categories you listed. Is he someone you would not be trying to upgrade come every April? Both have 12 Tds and 5 Ints. Cassell sucks but I like what KC is starting to put togehter in KC. Speed kills when used properly

I think Orton is a fine QB for the regular season but based on what I've seen him do in the 4th qtr I have concerns he won't be the answer to get the team over the hump. McD thought so too otherwise why draft Tebow when you have a 27 year old QB.

That One Guy
11-07-2010, 10:40 AM
Too many times the offense just flops around aimlessly in the first half.

7 first quarter points in 8 games is UNACCEPTABLE.

We don't fall far enough behind to turn to the passing game that early. We have to milk all the no gain runs that we can get before we fall behind and actually turn to the only strength.

I still think it all comes back to running the ball. Take a token from Philly of years past and replace every one of those runs with a short dumpoff. Get the RB to the backside of the DL before his run starts and at least you can get that far. A fairly accurate passer will just make that more efficient.

WolfpackGuy
11-07-2010, 10:50 AM
This is pathetic..I am not sure how some posters here keep supporting the idiot.

They win the Jaguars, Colts, Jets, and Niners games if the offense shows up in the first half.

Hell, in the Ravens game, if they come out of halftime and put some points on the board, that might've turned out differently. Nope, three and out.

Orton is decent, but he's not good enough to carry a team on his back with any sort of consistency.

WolfpackGuy
11-07-2010, 10:54 AM
We don't fall far enough behind to turn to the passing game that early. We have to milk all the no gain runs that we can get before we fall behind and actually turn to the only strength.

I still think it all comes back to running the ball. Take a token from Philly of years past and replace every one of those runs with a short dumpoff. Get the RB to the backside of the DL before his run starts and at least you can get that far. A fairly accurate passer will just make that more efficient.

I agree. They don't do dumpoffs nearly enough.

NYBronco
11-07-2010, 10:56 AM
yep..we alway start slow..too many three and outs.
I don't trust orton when we need a FG/TD to tie or win the game.

I don't have faith in the oline to protect Orton when absolutely necessary or the defense to make a big stop/turnover to avoid putting Orton in that position. Let alone executing fundamental blocks on a KO or PR that could potentially go for a TD.

tsiguy96
11-07-2010, 11:02 AM
I don't have faith in the oline to protect Orton when absolutely necessary or the defense to make a big stop/turnover to avoid putting Orton in that position. Let alone executing fundamental blocks on a KO or PR that could potentially go for a TD.

absolutely. i have far, far less faith taht the defense will create a big stop when we need them to than in the offense.

NFLBRONCO
11-07-2010, 11:03 AM
What Orton does well...is play not to lose. He can manage a game and not make mistakes...that's his bread and butter.

What Orton doesn't do well...is find ways to win games. When the game requires the QB to make plays down the stretch....while at the same time still not make mistakes...Orton chokes. He either fumbles or he throws an int.

As bad as this season has seemed. We have been in every game except 1. We could have won a couple more...despite our trouble on defense, running the ball, coaching etc. if Orton could play to win in the 4th Qtr. It's just not there with him.

Orton is a good backup and a good game manager if you have a great defense...ala the Bears....or like the Ravens. Orton is Trent Dilfer II.

Great job agree 100%

go_broncos
11-07-2010, 11:13 AM
Added to that our coach ****ing traded Hillis..
I am really pissed of with that trade.

yerner
11-07-2010, 11:23 AM
Who cares about average ass Kyle? Anybody watching Alphonso Smith play today? I'm going to puke.

Popps
11-07-2010, 11:26 AM
McD thought so too otherwise why draft Tebow when you have a 27 year old QB.

McD also extended Orton after seeing him in camp this year, and hasn't allowed Tebow to throw a single pass this season.

So, what "I'm telling you" is that Orton has done well, given the circumstances. Your "feelings" about how he "might" do when given "hump" arises is not pertinent.

What IS pertinent, is factual information. That information tells us that Orton is the least of our issues right now.

tsiguy96
11-07-2010, 11:35 AM
Who cares about average ass Kyle? Anybody watching Alphonso Smith play today? I'm going to puke.

he is plying good, but the fact that we need to discuss every week that 90% of the people here wanted him cut or not on the team, are the same ones blaming mcd for cutting him because he got beat out by 3 rookies in camp. alphonso dug his own grave in denver and he admitted it himself.

Bob's your Information Minister
11-07-2010, 11:43 AM
The truth about Orton was out last year when he choked against the Chiefs with the playoffs on the line.

I told you the minute he became your starter that you were wasting your time. You better hope Tebow shocks the world and actually pans out or your franchise is going to end up wasting about six years going nowhere.

Popps
11-07-2010, 11:50 AM
I told you...

As if anything that's ever followed those three words has been true... ever.

CEH
11-07-2010, 11:58 AM
McD also extended Orton after seeing him in camp this year, and hasn't allowed Tebow to throw a single pass this season.

So, what "I'm telling you" is that Orton has done well, given the circumstances. Your "feelings" about how he "might" do when given "hump" arises is not pertinent.

What IS pertinent, is factual information. That information tells us that Orton is the least of our issues right now.

Every player is evaluated every play. Never said Orton has not done well this year. He's OK (a graded of B I would say) but 5 years in he is who he is.

Why did Josh feel the need one year in to draft a QB in the first round?
To never see the field or to share time with Orton or play H-Back?

I can only go by the actions of the HC . What if tells me is that he wanted to upgrade the QB position because eventually Orton will be the liability. That's what drafting a QB in the first round tells me about the incumbent. Any player drafted in the first round is done so because they feel they can upgrade the incumbent. Is that not correct? Was drafting Tebow now a mistake?

BTW, How's that anaylsis of Ryan Fitzpatrick coming? I'm sure he has "done well considering his circumstances"

Bob's your Information Minister
11-07-2010, 12:11 PM
As if anything that's ever followed those three words has been true... ever.

Not so. I predicted your defensive collapse in 08.

And Orton's days are numbered. Tebow, baby! Hilarious!

HEAV
11-07-2010, 12:16 PM
Woody, you wanted Chris Simms last year. Now shut the ***** up. That is all

No $hit! Woody is like the rest of the DP sports writers...hacks!

orangemonkey
11-07-2010, 02:11 PM
Meanwhile, Cutler engineered a clutch 4th quarter comeback to beat the Bills. He executed a touchdown pass and a 2 point conversation. Funny thing though - the Bears, who have the worst o-line in the league, DID NOT put their backup quarterback in to run the goal line offense. Bears leading their division again. Ouch.

Hulamau
11-07-2010, 02:14 PM
Great break down Popps ... hope that helps for those who cant see the forest for the trees.

KipCorrington25
11-07-2010, 03:49 PM
I'm not an Orton guy, I'd take probably 2/3 to 3/4's of the other starting QB's in the league over him Cutler included.

I just don't see him getting over the hump, you make your bones in crunch time and the guy doesn't get it done.

ro_50
11-07-2010, 03:55 PM
Orton is gutsy, tries hard and is better now than last year.

But he's a lot like Jake Plummer -- he needs a strong support system.

And I'm not advocating Tebow to play -- yet -- but I hope when the game is close, Orton can make some MONEY throws.

I won't excuse him for the fourth quarter failures, especially against JAX and SF.

strafen
11-07-2010, 10:43 PM
We all know Paige has gone from a guy who tried to write insightful articles to a guy who simply pens the most inflammatory things he can come up with in hopes to gain readers. I guess this is sort of a sign of the internet times. Dude, do you realize this describes you to a T?
This is YOU bud. Lol!!!
Things you've said like; Hillis is dumb. Cutler cost Shanahan his job, etc...
I could spend more time researching a plethora of imflammatory posts you've created with the purpose of destroy the talents that McDaniels has dealt away.
The old saying that it takes one to know one has never been so true, Popps!

Al Wilson
11-07-2010, 10:51 PM
Orton will never star in a movie titled "A Man For All Quarters."
:spit:

That is hilarious

cutthemdown
11-07-2010, 10:51 PM
Orton is sort of avg but not the reason we aren't any good. Orton needs players around him to make big plays once in awhile. He needs rbs to fight for a TD here and there or someone to make a great grab.

The wr IMO get open because of some creative play designs. The only one though with that stud potential of being a redzone beast is Thomas.

Broncos need playmakers at TE, RB and better oline play. Then if they cant score more we can look at Orton.

Al Wilson
11-07-2010, 10:56 PM
Broncos need playmakers at TE, RB and better oline play.
Didn't we have this before McDaniels took over and threw them out ?

DHallblows
11-07-2010, 10:58 PM
Meanwhile, Cutler engineered a clutch 4th quarter comeback to beat the Bills. He executed a touchdown pass and a 2 point conversation. Funny thing though - the Bears, who have the worst o-line in the league, DID NOT put their backup quarterback in to run the goal line offense. Bears leading their division again. Ouch.

I wasn't aware Cutler lovers still existed on this board...odd

cutthemdown
11-08-2010, 12:03 AM
The truth about Orton was out last year when he choked against the Chiefs with the playoffs on the line.

I told you the minute he became your starter that you were wasting your time. You better hope Tebow shocks the world and actually pans out or your franchise is going to end up wasting about six years going nowhere.

dude a few weeks ago you were posting about how great he is and how wrong so many bronco fans were for not supporting him.

It's fine to talk smack but you're not someone whose opinions or even smack talk can be taken seriously. By the way nice way to suck against Raiders. Your QB is far worst then Orton.

cutthemdown
11-08-2010, 12:06 AM
Didn't we have this before McDaniels took over and threw them out ?

Yep. I don't think we knew exactly what we had in Hillis. I mean everyone though Moreno would be starter. I find it amusing everyone now acts like they always though Hillis over Moreno.

Marshall always had a problem scoring TDS and still does. Not sure why he should be good but even when Marshall was here our WR didn't score enough.

TE we had a good reciever in Scheff but lets not go putting him even in the top 10 TE in the NFL. He is an above avg reciever and below avg blocker. But is he someone who can be a redzone stud like Broncos need? I don't think so he's not physical enough.

tsiguy96
11-08-2010, 12:10 AM
Yep. I don't think we knew exactly what we had in Hillis. I mean everyone though Moreno would be starter. I find it amusing everyone now acts like they always though Hillis over Moreno.

Marshall always had a problem scoring TDS and still does. Not sure why he should be good but even when Marshall was here our WR didn't score enough.

TE we had a good reciever in Scheff but lets not go putting him even in the top 10 TE in the NFL. He is an above avg reciever and below avg blocker. But is he someone who can be a redzone stud like Broncos need? I don't think so he's not physical enough.

to be fair, i spent the entire 09 offseason defending hillis saying he should be the full time RB...popps agreed with me

cutthemdown
11-08-2010, 12:41 AM
to be fair, i spent the entire 09 offseason defending hillis saying he should be the full time RB...popps agreed with me

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.

driver
11-08-2010, 03:14 AM
You win in the NFL with solid defense a good balanced offense by balanced I mean you run the ball! You throw the ball when you want to. Not when you have to. Sounds pretty simplistic doesn't it. It is! If you doubt that Call up Lombardi or Paul Brown, Orton is doing the best he can with what he has to work with. Laying the lack of wins on him is BS.

Bronco Rob
11-08-2010, 05:36 AM
Woody, you wanted Chris Simms last year. Now shut the ***** up. That is all

:thumbsup:

jhns
11-08-2010, 07:18 AM
Exactly Paige! I have been saying the same thing. It has been pretty obvious.

jhns
11-08-2010, 07:24 AM
Meanwhile, Cutler engineered a clutch 4th quarter comeback to beat the Bills. He executed a touchdown pass and a 2 point conversation. Funny thing though - the Bears, who have the worst o-line in the league, DID NOT put their backup quarterback in to run the goal line offense. Bears leading their division again. Ouch.

Yup, Cutler is getting a lot of those this year. Funny that such a horrible QB like Cutler can do it with so little around him and yet some here think Orton needs all of these excuses. That is how it has been with McDaniels and his fans. Lots of excuses and few results.

bendog
11-08-2010, 08:32 AM
yeah terrible take, no facts just pure pops emoting.

Kyle Orton I'm here to notify you also is on pace to become the only quarterback among the top 10 all-time single-season passing leaders in league history to finish with a losing record.
-
I'm a little surprised paige still has that much edge left after getting his physical/emotional issues properly treated.

bendog
11-08-2010, 08:44 AM
Woody's wrong. I checked. But what makes this doubly funny is the cutler/jeff george comparisons and the fact that Jeff George led the league in passing but played for Oak and finished 4-12 in 1997. btw that charley johnson fella who led the NFL in 1962 is the same guy who qb'd Den in the early 70s and is now a chemistry professor at (I think) New Mexico.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_year_by_year.htm

colonelbeef
11-08-2010, 08:49 AM
Woody's wrong. I checked. But what makes this doubly funny is the cutler/jeff george comparisons and the fact that Jeff George led the league in passing but played for Oak and finished 4-12 in 1997. btw that charley johnson fella who led the NFL in 1962 is the same guy who qb'd Den in the early 70s and is now a chemistry professor at (I think) New Mexico.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_year_by_year.htm


but but Cutler!

lol, watching the fanboys choke on their pom poms is about the only good thing to come out of this disheartening disaster

jhns
11-08-2010, 08:55 AM
Woody's wrong. I checked. But what makes this doubly funny is the cutler/jeff george comparisons and the fact that Jeff George led the league in passing but played for Oak and finished 4-12 in 1997. btw that charley johnson fella who led the NFL in 1962 is the same guy who qb'd Den in the early 70s and is now a chemistry professor at (I think) New Mexico.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_year_by_year.htm

So where is he wrong? You didn't point that out. I think you just are reading it wrong. The "he has no facts" post above the one I am quoting is pretty funny though. The entire article is filled with facts, just not ones Bronco fans want to hear....

bendog
11-08-2010, 09:10 AM
I rechecked what Woody said. He is correct. Of the top ten yds per season guys, none had a losing record. Of guys leading the league George was the last one to do it on a losing team.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_single_season.htm

I'm not honestly sure what that shows, though. Orton is a journeyman qb, but he's far from being in the bottom half of qbs. Neither is Cutler, but that's not really the issue. The George comparisons are pretty lame in that Cutler may be a coach killer (though Martz deserves it for killign qbs) but Cutler was never a locker room problem for shanny or at vandy. There's no doubt he's pretty destainful of sports writers, but imo that is a character positive in that he's not a media whore.

Sure Den's defense is awful, and the run game is nearly 100yds per game worse than what Shanny left McDaniels. This is a really lousy team. But if you look at the list all top ten guys played on GOOD teams. Even Hou in 2009 had a good year (9-7) but missed the playoffs with Indy winning the division. McDaniels is getting amazing passign stats from guys like brandon Lloyd. This guy just didn't wake up in August of 2010 and say "hey, I'm a top 5 wide reciever." LOL. McDaniels personnel decisions suck, but there's no denying he can devise a passing attack. It's bad to be a broncos fan, because if I was chorf or oakland fan, I'd be laughing my ass off at this circus.

Mile High Shack
11-08-2010, 09:58 AM
Orton is what he is, a decent player that needs a lot of surrounding talent

Can he win in the NFL? Sure, he already has, will he take a team with lesser talent (like our team) and elevates everyone's play around him and make the team better? no

He is the least of our troubles

Beantown Bronco
11-08-2010, 10:08 AM
Orton is what he is, a decent player that needs a lot of surrounding talent

Can he win in the NFL? Sure, he already has, will he take a team with lesser talent (like our team) and elevates everyone's play around him and make the team better? no

Maybe not the entire team, but Marshall, Gaffney and Lloyd have all had the best years of their careers with Orton throwing them the ball.

bronco militia
11-08-2010, 10:10 AM
stats are for lsers.

hey look at that, kyle orton and his WR's are 2-6

Beantown Bronco
11-08-2010, 10:12 AM
stats are for lsers.

hey look at that, kyle orton and his WR's are 2-6

Weird. Wins and losses are stats.

bendog
11-08-2010, 10:12 AM
I think McDaniels would make a hell of a qbcoach/passing game coordinator (-:

Mile High Shack
11-08-2010, 10:30 AM
Maybe not the entire team, but Marshall, Gaffney and Lloyd have all had the best years of their careers with Orton throwing them the ball.

well that is true, but that is more of correlation to a bad running game and the need to throw, throw, throw, no?

I don't look at Orton, us down by 4 and we need a TD to win game and go "whew, at least we have Orton, we got this" do you?

Beantown Bronco
11-08-2010, 10:57 AM
I don't look at Orton, us down by 4 and we need a TD to win game and go "whew, at least we have Orton, we got this" do you?

To be honest, I like his chances in those instances. It seems the times we've failed is when we've needed 2+ TDs late in the 4th quarter....and, then again, who wouldn't? I can't think of any QBs who succeed with any kind of regularity in those situations, and that includes Brady and Manning.

bendog
11-08-2010, 10:59 AM
To be honest, I like his chances in those instances. It seems the times we've failed is when we've needed 2+ TDs late in the 4th quarter....and, then again, who wouldn't? I can't think of any QBs who succeed with any kind of regularity in those situations, and that includes Brady and Manning.

Faver;D

Rigs11
11-08-2010, 11:23 AM
well that is true, but that is more of correlation to a bad running game and the need to throw, throw, throw, no?

I don't look at Orton, us down by 4 and we need a TD to win game and go "whew, at least we have Orton, we got this" do you?

i do, hell we wouldnt be in alot of those situations if not for penalties.the guy is doing pretty freaking well despite opposing defenses blitzing our pathetic oline. look at how many times he has gotten hit the last 4 games.

Homer Simpson
11-08-2010, 11:25 AM
I posted this in the Hillis thread somewhat stupidly.

I think when you are 2 & 6 you are out of the playoffs. It's not about dropping Orton, it's about the next 8 games being almost an extended pre-season. You picked a QB in the 1st round. Put him in and see what he can do. Look at Bradford, Stafford and McCoy and he can't be as bad as Clausen :rofl:

Jay3
11-08-2010, 11:33 AM
well that is true, but that is more of correlation to a bad running game and the need to throw, throw, throw, no?

I don't look at Orton, us down by 4 and we need a TD to win game and go "whew, at least we have Orton, we got this" do you?

Nope, I think "we're doomed, forget it."

Then I think "Maybe someone will commit pass interference."

Rigs11
11-08-2010, 11:36 AM
I posted this in the Hillis thread somewhat stupidly.

I think when you are 2 & 6 you are out of the playoffs. It's not about dropping Orton, it's about the next 8 games being almost an extended pre-season. You picked a QB in the 1st round. Put him in and see what he can do. Look at Bradford, Stafford and McCoy and he can't be as bad as Clausen :rofl:

this doesn't make any sense. Why would you put a rookie qb out there when the rest of the team is underachiving? feeding him to the wolves?

Homer Simpson
11-08-2010, 12:07 PM
this doesn't make any sense. Why would you put a rookie qb out there when the rest of the team is underachiving? feeding him to the wolves?

He's mobile. He is the greatest college player of all time. Why not roll the dice and see if he can inspire the fans at least. It would change the atmosphere in the stadium come Sunday against KC. Those I know with tickets are scared at what might happen right now.

I agree with you but what do we have to lose?

Beantown Bronco
11-08-2010, 12:09 PM
He's mobile. He is the greatest college player of all time. Why not roll the dice and see if he can inspire the fans at least. It would change the atmosphere in the stadium come Sunday against KC. Those I know with tickets are scared at what might happen right now.

I agree with you but what do we have to lose?

Our offense should do fine against KC's defense with Orton in there. It's the Denver run defense, which has been extremely inconsistent to say the least, that has me worried. If they can't do to the KC running game what they did to Chris Johnson a few weeks ago then it won't matter who our QB is.

bendog
11-08-2010, 12:10 PM
http://footballdb.com/teams/nfl/denver-broncos/stats/1983

Homer Simpson
11-08-2010, 12:22 PM
It's all moot, if he was playing we'd have heard by now...

Beantown Bronco
11-08-2010, 12:26 PM
It's all moot, if he was playing we'd have heard by now...

Why would we have heard by now when they haven't even held a real practice yet this week? If they were planning on starting Tebow, there's pretty much zero chance that we would know it yet.

Homer Simpson
11-08-2010, 12:27 PM
Why would we have heard by now when they haven't even held a real practice yet this week? If they were planning on starting Tebow, there's pretty much zero chance that we would know it yet.

That was my misguided attempt at humor.