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BroncoSojia
11-04-2010, 01:41 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16523671

Broncos' COO Joe Ellis says team brass hears, understands fans' outrage
By Mike Klis


"When people invest not only their money but their emotions in this team like they have for 50 years, they have every right to express their feelings," Ellis said today. "What we do is important. We understand that and we respect that."

Ellis, the team's chief operating officer, agreed to sit down with The Denver Post to address the state of the Broncos during the bye week.

Ellis said Bowlen is in good health, but the team's owner since 1984 has chosen to step back from the spotlight and let Ellis speak for management. Ellis added that Bowlen is confident McDaniels can turn around the Broncos, but he stopped short of guaranteeing the coach would return next season.

Not only are the Broncos 2-6, they lost their most recent home game, 59-14, to their arch-rival, the Oakland Raiders. Most of the fans' displeasure has been aimed at McDaniels, the team's second year coach.

"We've had a culture of winning here under Pat Bowlen for 27 years," Ellis said. "When that started to slide (under Mike Shanahan) there were expectations that when we brought in the new head coach that would change immediately. When that didn't happen as fast as our fans wanted it to — we all wanted it to happen quickly — there was a lot of angst among our fans.

"Then you take into account the start we've had this year, with the type of loss we had with the Oakland game at home, and the fans' emotions and feelings are understandably raw in terms of their anger and disappointment. Pat understands that. Josh understands that."

Ellis said he understands that will will take more than words to get back in the fans' good graces.

"Because of the way that game went, we made our apologies, we told everybody how embarrassed we were through our head coach and players," Ellis said. "But those words right now ring hollow. The only way you can win back the fans' trust is to earn it on the field by coaching better, playing better and performing better and winning."

TheReverend
11-04-2010, 01:42 PM
**** you, Ellis.

Rohirrim
11-04-2010, 01:44 PM
You want to turn it around? Kick some Chief ass.

TheReverend
11-04-2010, 01:44 PM
Wouldn't guarantee McDaniel's job?

Tell ya what, if you fire McD, I hope Bowlen sends you and Xanders out the door with him.

Ellis is the worst thing to happen to the Broncos ever, imo.

bronclvr
11-04-2010, 01:46 PM
My, we're tolerant around here-

bowtown
11-04-2010, 01:47 PM
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/11_02/rasputinBBC1711_468x556.jpg

Northman
11-04-2010, 01:49 PM
Im glad there's no guarantee that McD will be around if we cant turn it around. We should of been improving drastically by now instead of regressing.

bloodsunday
11-04-2010, 01:54 PM
I don't really care what he said, it's reassuring to me that they spoke at all.

bronco militia
11-04-2010, 01:55 PM
wow! we might as well start the new coach search now

Chris
11-04-2010, 01:56 PM
http://niccolomachiavelli.worldhistoryblogs.com/files/2007/10/machiavellis_portrait.jpg

24champ
11-04-2010, 01:56 PM
**** you, Ellis.

This.

He is a ****ing idiot.

Chris
11-04-2010, 01:56 PM
Im glad there's no guarantee that McD will be around if we cant turn it around. We should of been improving drastically by now instead of regressing.

Who is that girl in your avatar?

TheReverend
11-04-2010, 01:58 PM
Who is that girl in your avatar?

A 5/10 in UF standards.

RunSilentRunDeep
11-04-2010, 01:59 PM
Wonder what the vibe would be around here if they still got destroyed by the Raiders but just knocked down the two Hail Marys that blew the Jets and 49ers games.

Very disappointing season, but I still find myself thankful I haven't endured life as a fan of the vast group of crappy-never-won-a-thing franchises in the NFL.

bloodsunday
11-04-2010, 02:02 PM
This.

He is a ****ing idiot.

And he's now running this organization.

Rabb
11-04-2010, 02:15 PM
Very disappointing season, but I still find myself thankful I haven't endured life as a fan of the vast group of crappy-never-won-a-thing franchises in the NFL.

my brother and I talked about this very thing today

I know it sounds stupid, but if I were a fan of a team that has always sucked I wouldn't be upset

I know the Broncos haven't always been great, but for the most part we have had it pretty damn good...that's why I hate what's going on right now so much

Northman
11-04-2010, 02:17 PM
Who is that girl in your avatar?

My girlfriend.










J/k. I have no idea. Its been on the net for a while.

NFLBRONCO
11-04-2010, 02:19 PM
wow! we might as well start the new coach search now

Dan Hawkins will be available

Pony Boy
11-04-2010, 02:30 PM
27433

DomCasual
11-04-2010, 02:45 PM
Wouldn't guarantee McDaniel's job?

Tell ya what, if you fire McD, I hope Bowlen sends you and Xanders out the door with him.

Ellis is the worst thing to happen to the Broncos ever, imo.

Clearly, you are not remembering this:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0902/nfl.worst.free.agent.signings.all.time/images/dale-carter.jpg

worm
11-04-2010, 02:46 PM
Just this past year:

Bowlen asserts that he was 'taking back the team'...and would be a 'daily presence'.

Now Ellis says Pat has stepped back and that he speaks for management.

The entire structure, short-term inconsistency and mixed messages of this front office continues to reek of poor leadership and direction.

Blame players, injuries, refs or whatever for the current state of the Broncos. IMO, you can start with the leadership of this franchise to begin to find a cure.

What I would do:
1) Ellis and Xanders should be shown the door.
2) Josh's responsibilities need to be re-scoped.
3) Bowlen can stay in the back ground but he needs to hire a true football man who can make hard decisions and is well connected in the NFL fraternity to lead this franchise.

Mile High Shack
11-04-2010, 02:47 PM
well this story just fills me with confidence...oye

Houshyamama
11-04-2010, 02:48 PM
27433

Is this actually from a new episode? There's one new one I haven't seen.

TheReverend
11-04-2010, 02:50 PM
Just this past year:

Bowlen asserts that he was 'taking back the team'...and would be a 'daily presence'.

Now Ellis says Pat has stepped back and that he speaks for management.

The entire structure, short-term inconsistency and mixed messages of this front office continues to reek of poor leadership and direction.

Blame players, injuries, refs or whatever for the current state of the Broncos. IMO, you can start with the leadership of this franchise to begin to find a cure.

What I would do:
1) Ellis and Xanders should be shown the door.
2) Josh's responsibilities need to be re-scoped.
3) Bowlen can stay in the back ground but he needs to hire a true football man who can make hard decisions and is well connected in the NFL fraternity to lead this franchise.

Don't forget that it's been "rumored" that Ellis was the driving force behind Bowlen firing Mike and it's documented that Ellis was the MAIN person conducting the coaching interviews.

To be conservative, let's say the rumors are false and he was only the front man on interviews... how did he get this kind of power? And hasn't Elway volunteered for a position like this year after year?

This is ridiculous.

broncofan2438
11-04-2010, 02:51 PM
Actions speak louder than words Ellis you ****!
Better turn some **** around and fast

yerner
11-04-2010, 03:01 PM
Asshole.

fontaine
11-04-2010, 03:14 PM
Does Joe Ellis actually make any football personnel related hires? Hiring of assistants/positions coaches?

If not, then I don't see what effect he has on the team other than making sure it's a profiteable venture.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-04-2010, 03:16 PM
Does Joe Ellis actually make any football personnel relate issues? Hiring of assistants/positions coaches?

If not, then I don't see what effect he has on the team other than making sure it's a profiteable venture.

He's McD's boss.

TheReverend
11-04-2010, 03:49 PM
Does Joe Ellis actually make any football personnel related hires? Hiring of assistants/positions coaches?

If not, then I don't see what effect he has on the team other than making sure it's a profiteable venture.

"Bowlen said that while he is involved in every facet of the organization, [Joe] Ellis, [the team's chief operating officer], his confidant, has been given more power in the restructuring since Shanahan was fired. "Joe is handling all the things I'm not particularly interested in, making more major decisions," he said.

"Ellis, who was director of marketing when Bowlen bought the majority ownership of the Broncos in 1984, has served in several executive capacities. He was named COO last year. Ellis, several sources say, was instrumental in getting Bowlen to agree to fire Shanahan, hire McDaniels (Ellis alone met with the new coach for a second interview) and trade Cutler."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12281980

"One thing that has become abundantly clear in the wake of the termination of Mike Shanahan and the hiring of Josh McDaniels is that COO Joe Ellis (who?) has become one of the most powerful figures in the Broncos organization.

"And so Ellis is the latest in a line of (front office executives) who used a mastery of the intricate rules of the salary cap to position themselves to have significant influence over the football operation while having no accountability for on-field failure because, after all, they’re not football guys."

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/12/joe-ellis-has-the-juice-in-denver/


Joe Ellis is a name that all Bronco fans should know and be afraid of.

bowtown
11-04-2010, 03:58 PM
Totally agree. I think he had a lot more to do with the Goodman firings and the hiring of Xanders as a puppet GM than Josh did.

elsid13
11-04-2010, 04:07 PM
So does Ellis have Bowlen locked away in Dove Valley somewhere? It time for Bowlen to add partner like they did in Baltimore, who will become a successor.

Requiem
11-04-2010, 04:10 PM
Joe can lick my 9. WAYNE NEWTON.

Mr. Elway
11-04-2010, 04:34 PM
Joe Ellis should be selling cell phones and John Elway should be helping Pat run the team.

crush17
11-04-2010, 04:36 PM
Sell majority ownership to Elway!

(kidding... kind of)

Rock Chalk
11-04-2010, 04:39 PM
I am truly amazed at how upset people get on things they have 0 control over.

crush17
11-04-2010, 04:54 PM
I am truly amazed at how upset people get on things they have 0 control over.

Amen.

Soul-Bronco
11-04-2010, 05:42 PM
Elway as the successor to bowlen would be the best situation IMO, someone who truly loves the broncos, hates the chiefs raiders and chargers, and would bring 2 superbowl rings on his back hand to smack around cry babys like cutler

tsiguy96
11-04-2010, 05:48 PM
i really doubt elway has the 900 million-1+ billion dollars required to purchase this team, and the guy (forgot his damn name again, kosar) can block the sale regardless, and probably will.

Hamrob
11-04-2010, 05:49 PM
Ellis is the guy behind firing Shanny. He's the guy that drooled over the Patriot way and he's the guy who hand picked McD.

He, Xanders and McD need to be shown the door.

Bring in Cowher and a GM or perhaps Holmgren and a GM.

crush17
11-04-2010, 05:51 PM
i really doubt elway has the 900 million-1+ billion dollars required to purchase this team, and the guy (forgot his damn name again, kosar) can block the sale regardless, and probably will.

Ehh while I tend to agree with you I wouldn't doubt it if he did have the money. As much as I would love for that to happen, it probably never will.

_Oro_
11-04-2010, 06:01 PM
.

orinjkrush
11-04-2010, 06:02 PM
what a soap opera. 'days of broncos lives'

all we need is someone back from the dead. ralston?

baja
11-04-2010, 08:24 PM
Just this past year:

Bowlen asserts that he was 'taking back the team'...and would be a 'daily presence'.

Now Ellis says Pat has stepped back and that he speaks for management.

The entire structure, short-term inconsistency and mixed messages of this front office continues to reek of poor leadership and direction.

Blame players, injuries, refs or whatever for the current state of the Broncos. IMO, you can start with the leadership of this franchise to begin to find a cure.

What I would do:
1) Ellis and Xanders should be shown the door.
2) Josh's responsibilities need to be re-scoped.
3) Bowlen can stay in the back ground but he needs to hire a true football man who can make hard decisions and is well connected in the NFL fraternity to lead this franchise.

Reasonable take.

baja
11-04-2010, 08:27 PM
I am truly amazed at how upset people get on things they have 0 control over.

...and very little true knowledge of.

v2micca
11-04-2010, 08:37 PM
Is this actually from a new episode? There's one new one I haven't seen.

Its from the Jared has Aides episode. First episode of Season 6.

strafen
11-04-2010, 08:41 PM
Just this past year:

Bowlen asserts that he was 'taking back the team'...and would be a 'daily presence'.

Now Ellis says Pat has stepped back and that he speaks for management.

The entire structure, short-term inconsistency and mixed messages of this front office continues to reek of poor leadership and direction.

Blame players, injuries, refs or whatever for the current state of the Broncos. IMO, you can start with the leadership of this franchise to begin to find a cure.

What I would do:
1) Ellis and Xanders should be shown the door.
2) Josh's responsibilities need to be re-scoped.
3) Bowlen can stay in the back ground but he needs to hire a true football man who can make hard decisions and is well connected in the NFL fraternity to lead this franchise.

Absolutely. I agree with you on all accounts.
We first should've hired a true GM. The GM would've had an input in the headcoach search.
It's somewhat ackward to hire the head coach first, and then the GM.
I see that as being perhaps where the FO has its issues...

bronco militia
11-04-2010, 08:42 PM
Absolutely. I agree with you on all accounts.
We first should've hired a true GM. The GM would've had an input in the headcoach search.
It's somewhat ackward to hire the head coach first, and then the GM.
I see that as being perhaps where the FO has its issues...

pat bowlen has always done it this way

Meck77
11-04-2010, 08:46 PM
I am truly amazed at how upset people get on things they have 0 control over.

I'm going to start calling you Zen Raenos.

strafen
11-04-2010, 08:54 PM
pat bowlen has always done it this wayWell, he's clear dropped the ball this time...

montrose
11-04-2010, 09:00 PM
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5549/ellisw.jpg

tsiguy96
11-04-2010, 09:06 PM
you guys act like ellis pretends to be a football professional. hes a business man in a business position, running football operations, not the football team.

lostknight
11-04-2010, 09:23 PM
Ah, this would be Mr. Ellis throwing Josh McDaniels under a bus. It's pretty clear that someone's head is going to roll if this team ends 4-12.

bowtown
11-04-2010, 09:28 PM
Ah, this would be Mr. Ellis throwing Josh McDaniels under a bus. It's pretty clear that someone's head is going to roll if this team ends 4-12.

Sorry, I'm unclear the exact part where he threw McDaniels under the bus there. If anything, it seems to me that he let him off pretty easy. Care to point it out?

Popps
11-04-2010, 09:29 PM
Sorry, I'm unclear the exact part where he threw McDaniels under the bus there. If anything, it seems to me that he let him off pretty easy. Care to point it out?

You probably missed it because it doesn't exist.

strafen
11-04-2010, 09:30 PM
you guys act like ellis pretends to be a football professional. hes a business man in a business position, running football operations, not the football team.As a marketing expert, he's also concerned about the type of product we're putting on the field.
Having a good team is good for the success of the organization
Don't fool yourself...

baja
11-04-2010, 09:31 PM
I think this is posturing. They are going to extend him while he's inexpensive.

strafen
11-04-2010, 09:35 PM
Sorry, I'm unclear the exact part where he threw McDaniels under the bus there. If anything, it seems to me that he let him off pretty easy. Care to point it out?

Not sure if it can be categorized as throwing him under the bus, but this is not a ringing endorsement either...
"We've had a culture of winning here under Pat Bowlen for 27 years," Ellis said. "When that started to slide (under Mike Shanahan) there were expectations that when we brought in the new head coach that would change immediately. When that didn't happen as fast as our fans wanted it to — we all wanted it to happen quickly — there was a lot of angst among our fans.

"Then you take into account the start we've had this year, with the type of loss we had with the Oakland game at home, and the fans' emotions and feelings are understandably raw in terms of their anger and disappointment. Pat understands that. Josh understands that."

Ellis said he understands that will will take more than words to get back in the fans' good graces.

"Because of the way that game went, we made our apologies, we told everybody how embarrassed we were through our head coach and players," Ellis said. "But those words right now ring hollow. The only way you can win back the fans' trust is to earn it on the field by coaching better, playing better and performing better and winning."

TheReverend
11-04-2010, 09:39 PM
you guys act like ellis pretends to be a football professional. hes a business man in a business position, running football operations, not the football team.

You're aware that he participated in every coaching interview and he was the ONLY ONE present at McDaniel's second interview, yes?

tsiguy96
11-04-2010, 10:03 PM
You're aware that he participated in every coaching interview and he was the ONLY ONE present at McDaniel's second interview, yes?

very. he also interviewed the other candidates, and decided based on those which person he thought was most suited to run the football team. hiring a coach, and the person who is going to run his team, is a business decision.

TheReverend
11-04-2010, 10:07 PM
very. he also interviewed the other candidates, and decided based on those which person he thought was most suited to run the football team. hiring a coach, and the person who is going to run his team, is a business decision.

So to you, hiring and firing head coaches, and making personnel moves are a business decision and in no way related to football operations?

Got it. :thumbsup:

tsiguy96
11-04-2010, 10:13 PM
So to you, hiring and firing head coaches, and making personnel moves are a business decision and in no way related to football operations?

Got it. :thumbsup:

he doesnt make personnel moves, he hires the head coach, who at which point hires and fires who he feels necessary for the team, including other coaches and players.

its football related in taht hes hiring the guy who MAKES the football decisions, but he leaves the football decisions to mcdaniels.

BroncoBuff
11-04-2010, 11:04 PM
Ellis is the worst thing to happen to the Broncos ever, imo.

I've heard this, but I don't get it ... how much and what exactly is Joe responsible for?

First most of us heard about him was that he negotiated salary and terms with Bowlen's choice for Shanahan's replacement. Since then, what? McDaniels and Xanders have been responsible since then.

ANYTHING but blame Josh I guess.

Mogulseeker
11-05-2010, 01:06 AM
Just this past year:

Bowlen asserts that he was 'taking back the team'...and would be a 'daily presence'.

Now Ellis says Pat has stepped back and that he speaks for management.

The entire structure, short-term inconsistency and mixed messages of this front office continues to reek of poor leadership and direction.

Blame players, injuries, refs or whatever for the current state of the Broncos. IMO, you can start with the leadership of this franchise to begin to find a cure.

What I would do:
1) Ellis and Xanders should be shown the door.
2) Josh's responsibilities need to be re-scoped.
3) Bowlen can stay in the back ground but he needs to hire a true football man who can make hard decisions and is well connected in the NFL fraternity to lead this franchise.

This. I think someone actually mentioned bringing in Schottenheimer to replace Ellis.

tsiguy96
11-05-2010, 01:08 AM
you guys act like ellis is trying to be the bill parcells of denver. not happening. he is in charge of the business side of bronco football, aka the stuff we dont see. he hired the coach, at which point the coach was given responsibility to do wiht the team what he liked.

BroncoBuff
11-05-2010, 01:18 AM
This. I think someone actually mentioned bringing in Schottenheimer to replace Ellis.

Schottenheimer would be great, as a football guy. That was the right play 21 months ago, but Bowlen blew it.

Joe Ellis is the COO, Chief Operating Officer, nothing more. he is NOT a football guy. He's speaking from an executive position, not a football one.

BroncoBuff
11-05-2010, 01:51 AM
*SIGH*

Okay, to explain, Rams top of my head example, (please don't b**** about which team is the example):


http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1079/rams2.jpg


Joe Ellis = John Shaw
(void) = Billy Devanny (should've been Schottenheimer or Jim Goodman)
(void) = Mike Williams (should've been "" or "")
Xanders = McCutcheon ... kind of.


Ellis has ZERO football responsibility. He deals directly with Pat, which can't be real easy right now.

FWIW I knew Joe when I worked there, he was the NFL Properties rep, and he's a good guy. Funny, nice, smart (not trying to drop names, he didn't even return my calls last year @ '09 camp, so whatever). But he's a great guy, and he knows he's not a football guy. He is a business guy.

Taco John
11-05-2010, 02:08 AM
"We've had a culture of winning here under Pat Bowlen for 27 years," Ellis said. "When that started to slide (under Mike Shanahan) there were expectations that when we brought in the new head coach that would change immediately. When that didn't happen as fast as our fans wanted it to — we all wanted it to happen quickly — there was a lot of angst among our fans.

What is Ellis thinkng taking a shot like that at Shanahan? That's not going to win your angry fans over. It just sounds like he's making excuses for failure, rather than he's confident in the moves the Broncos have made. What a shame to see this coming from our management. This organization used to be a lot more classy than this. I never once saw Shanahan pointing fingers in the media.

iforgotmypassword
11-05-2010, 02:53 AM
I've been a member for of this message board for a long time. I follow it becaue you all put up like-minded links as fast as anybody, and theres generally pretty good oppinions about that topic. Bronco Yoda and Old Dude seemed to have a good scoop. I chimed in every once in awhile, 500 posts over how long? most of them concerning the mock draft, just a great site.... but now WOW.

This thread is the defintion of why I prefer theredzone.net and **** like that.... this thread shows me people with THOUSANDS of posts are irrelevent. "I disagree that Elway doesn't have a billion dollars to buy the broncos" and I feel bad for TJ, what can he do about it, internet got watered down, his site was the same :/... it's still my favorite bronco site, but guys.... when you say ****, have some clout behind it.... its honestly like listening to a bunch of liberals

ZachKC
11-05-2010, 05:00 AM
he doesnt make personnel moves, he hires the head coach,

Retard.

spdirty
11-05-2010, 06:03 AM
he doesnt make personnel moves, he hires the head coach, who at which point hires and fires who he feels necessary for the team, including other coaches and players.

its football related in taht hes hiring the guy who MAKES the football decisions, but he leaves the football decisions to mcdaniels.

And that business decision is going to cost his boss millions. Had I, you, or most anyone made a mistake like that, we would probably be fired.

oubronco
11-05-2010, 06:05 AM
my brother and I talked about this very thing today

I know it sounds stupid, but if I were a fan of a team that has always sucked I wouldn't be upset

I know the Broncos haven't always been great, but for the most part we have had it pretty damn good...that's why I hate what's going on right now so much

Yep Reeves and Shanny spoiled us with all those winning teams and kickass running games and Elway

bowtown
11-05-2010, 06:12 AM
"We've had a culture of winning here under Pat Bowlen for 27 years," Ellis said. "When that started to slide (under Mike Shanahan) there were expectations that when we brought in the new head coach that would change immediately. When that didn't happen as fast as our fans wanted it to — we all wanted it to happen quickly — there was a lot of angst among our fans.

What is Ellis thinkng taking a shot like that at Shanahan? That's not going to win your angry fans over. It just sounds like he's making excuses for failure, rather than he's confident in the moves the Broncos have made. What a shame to see this coming from our management. This organization used to be a lot more classy than this. I never once saw Shanahan pointing fingers in the media.

There were rumblings that Ellis was pulling the strings behind the Shanahan firing.

Rabb
11-05-2010, 06:24 AM
As a marketing expert, he's also concerned about the type of product we're putting on the field.
Having a good team is good for the success of the organization
Don't fool yourself...

absolutely

and thinking he has no role in personnel decisions and only hired the coach is just an uneducated opinion...and probably wrong

CEH
11-05-2010, 06:37 AM
I said for a while now I believe the power structure is screwed up.
I think you will see a change in the structure of the organization in the off season. However, one area where McX has succeeded is managing the cash flow alot better than Shanny and staying within budget.

If the fans have no input then I don't think Ellis comes out mid season with a state of the union address to fans. The brass is worried about the bottomline fans and fans in the seats. I expect a letter from Bowlen to season ticket holders soon as well. This would be another indication that they are looking at this very seriously and deciding a potential new course to take. I think Pat fell in love with the NE way and thought it would work here in Denver.

I could see the fans not boycott but sell their tickets to rival fans who want to see their teams. How awful would it be to see Invesco half in Red for the Chiefs game.

You can't lose big to Oak, KC and SD at home and think all is well with the brass.

baja
11-05-2010, 06:43 AM
I think Pat fell in love with the NE way and thought it would work here in Denver.



I think Pat was "blown away" by Josh McDaniels. I think Pat thought he found the new and fresh Mike Shanahan. Josh might be suffering from having too much asked of him. He needs a strong GM with good connections around the league. Does Xanders have those abilities? I don't know.

jhns
11-05-2010, 06:48 AM
The fact that Bowlen won't talk anymore is pretty telling. See you later McDaniels. First it was that he made mistakes and now it's to the point that Bowlen is too embarrassed to talk in public. Kind of makes some here that defend all of this stuff look pretty dumb(although the product on the field did this already).

baja
11-05-2010, 06:51 AM
The fact that Bowlen won't talk anymore is pretty telling. See you later McDaniels. First it was that he made mistakes and now it's to the point that Bowlen is too embarrassed to talk in public. Kind of makes some here that defend all of this stuff look pretty dumb.

What's dumb is accusing people of looking dumb based on assumptions you pull from your ass.

jhns
11-05-2010, 06:59 AM
What's dumb is accusing people of looking dumb based on assumptions you pull from your ass.

There are no assumptions. You guys look dumb because the product on the field is ****. The team has regressed with each passing month. You guys defend mistakes that Bowlen has already said were mistakes. Sure, he MAY not be getting fired, if he can turn it around. As of now, it isn't looking so good for him. Maybe you can name a time that this front office didn't guarantee Shanahans job? They did it a few weeks before he was fired. They will always put full support in their coach...unless.....

No one would care to point this stuff out if you guys used your heads and didn't troll everyone that didn't agree with you. With as much as you guys cried about people questioning this crap, you deserve to be called dumbasses.

bronclvr
11-05-2010, 07:05 AM
Problem is, when/if we get a new Coach, it's very likely he will gut the Team too, so then we will be two or more Years to climb back up-I really think we need to give McD another Year or so to see if he can make it work-

baja
11-05-2010, 07:10 AM
There are no assumptions. You guys look dumb because the product on the field is ****. The team has regressed with each passing month. You guys defend mistakes that Bowlen has already said were mistakes. Sure, he MAY not be getting fired, if he can turn it around. As of now, it isn't looking so good for him. Maybe you can name a time that this front office didn't guarantee Shanahans job? They did it a few weeks before he was fired. They will always put full support in their coach...unless.....

No one would care to point this stuff out if you guys used your heads and didn't troll everyone that didn't agree with you. With as much as you guys cried about people questioning this crap, you deserve to be called dumbasses.

I only see a small hand full of posters being consistently called to task here. They are go_broncos, General Putz, you and a few others. Why is that?

Broncomutt
11-05-2010, 07:13 AM
Problem is, when/if we get a new Coach, it's very likely he will gut the Team too, so then we will be two or more Years to climb back up-I really think we need to give McD another Year or so to see if he can make it work-

Or he might not gut the team and actually get production from the talent we have. Alphonso Smith comes to mind.

jhns
11-05-2010, 07:14 AM
I only see a small hand full of posters being consistently called to task here. They are go_broncos, General Putz, you and a few others. Why is that?

I don't know. Why don't you explain it. Why did you guys troll the posters that didn't agree with McDaniels? Is it because you were right? Was it because others opinions aren't good if you don't agree with them? I can't tell you. I am one of the few that used my head when discussing this team.

long beach bronco
11-05-2010, 07:17 AM
I have been a broncos fan since I was nine years old, thirty-six years ago, and my confidence and faith in this team have never been lower. I don't even look forward to Sunday's now, as far as I'm concerned It feels like it's the offseason, nothing to cheer about. I have never felt this way. I have always gotten up for this team, nervous before every game, biting my nails, pacing the floor and screaming like a madman. It's a very sad time.

jhns
11-05-2010, 07:18 AM
Or he might not gut the team and actually get production from the talent we have. Alphonso Smith comes to mind.

Exactly. No one cares if we go through some down time. That is, no one cares as long as the coach isn't cutting of his nose in spite of his face at every turn. Don't use first round picks and then not give them a shot. Don't trade away you future first round picks when you are rebuilding. Show that you can evaluate talent at more than just a couple positions. etc...

baja
11-05-2010, 07:31 AM
I don't know. Why don't you explain it. Why did you guys troll the posters that didn't agree with McDaniels? Is it because you were right? Was it because others opinions aren't good if you don't agree with them? I can't tell you. I am one of the few that used my head when discussing this team.

Well I don't know what "troll the posters" means but if you will notice there are many posters on both sides that don't get called out for their position. Could it be they temper their position with reason.

baja
11-05-2010, 07:33 AM
I have been a broncos fan since I was nine years old, thirty-six years ago, and my confidence and faith in this team have never been lower. I don't even look forward to Sunday's now, as far as I'm concerned It feels like it's the offseason, nothing to cheer about. I have never felt this way. I have always gotten up for this team,<b> nervous before every game, biting my nails, pacing the floor and screaming like a madman. </b> It's a very sad time.

Maybe this change is not all bad. ;D

lostknight
11-05-2010, 07:35 AM
There is a standard format to these kind of articles. They almost always include a endorsement, or a least a "be patient and evaluate" clause. The fact that this statement was not in there - when even Mike Singletary got one prior to the 49ers game, indicates that the FO wants to apply maximum pressure on the front office. The fact that they then criticize Mike Shanahan is basically try to divert the pressure anywhere but at themselves.

theAPAOps5
11-05-2010, 07:37 AM
Fact is Bowlen won't have 3 coaches on the payroll. McD is staying at least through the next season, get over it.

Bowlen hasn't done interviews well before this meltdown. jhns is an idiot, that is all!

jhns
11-05-2010, 07:40 AM
Well I don't know what "troll the posters" means but if you will notice there are many posters on both sides that don't get called out for their position. Could it be they temper their position with reason.

Nope. I was reasonable for a long time and would discuss football. Every time I questioned a McDaniels move it was followed by "you need to go to the Bears board." "You need to go the the Skins board." "You aren't a real fan." "You are a stupid dumb dumb head!" I would say that some of the dumber posters just troll whoever doesn't agree with their opinion. I have had multiple posters tell me they were leaving this site for this very reason.

Can you name me a single poster that openly questioned McDaniels and didn't have the above said to them?

jhns
11-05-2010, 07:43 AM
Fact is Bowlen won't have 3 coaches on the payroll. McD is staying at least through the next season, get over it.

Bowlen hasn't done interviews well before this meltdown. jhns is an idiot, that is all!

He did interviews earlier this year... I am an idiot because you don't pay attention? That makes sense.

What is funny is that you put out "facts" without the smallest amount of evidence. Now that is something an idiot does.

bronclvr
11-05-2010, 07:44 AM
Or he might not gut the team and actually get production from the talent we have. Alphonso Smith comes to mind.

How many new regimes have done this? Off of the top of my head I can't think of any-

Dedhed
11-05-2010, 07:49 AM
Don't forget that it's been "rumored" that Ellis was the driving force behind Bowlen firing Mike

Kudos to Ellis then.

baja
11-05-2010, 07:50 AM
Nope. I was reasonable for a long time and would discuss football. Every time I questioned a McDaniels move it was followed by "you need to go to the Bears board." "You need to go the the Skins board." "You aren't a real fan." "You are a stupid dumb dumb head!" I would say that some of the dumber posters just troll whoever doesn't agree with their opinion. I have had multiple posters tell me they were leaving this site for this very reason.

Can you name me a single poster that openly questioned McDaniels and didn't have the above said to them?

NYbronco and worm are two that come to mind . They both had well thought out posts criticizing McD a coupe of days ago. I also have criticized elements of Josh's team.

If you are what you say you are why do so many people get on you. The sheer number of posters that get on you has to make you wonder, one would think, "is it me"

jhns
11-05-2010, 07:59 AM
NYbronco and worm are two that come to mind . They both had well thought out posts criticizing McD a coupe of days ago. I also have criticized elements of Josh's team.

If you are what you say you are why do so many people get on you. The sheer number of posters that get on you has to make you wonder, one would think, "is it me"

I'm not talking about questioning him in the last week..... Of course everyone gets it now.

That may help you understand why it is the way it is in your second paragraph a little better.

tsiguy96
11-05-2010, 08:01 AM
Nope. I was reasonable for a long time and would discuss football. Every time I questioned a McDaniels move it was followed by "you need to go to the Bears board." "You need to go the the Skins board." "You aren't a real fan." "You are a stupid dumb dumb head!" I would say that some of the dumber posters just troll whoever doesn't agree with their opinion. I have had multiple posters tell me they were leaving this site for this very reason.

Can you name me a single poster that openly questioned McDaniels and didn't have the above said to them?

do you not understand teh difference between questioning a move and teh **** you say? "mcdumbass is the stupidest coach ever, he destroyed this team ,we are set back 50 years!" is not questioning a coach, its trolling.

jhns
11-05-2010, 08:03 AM
do you not understand teh difference between questioning a move and teh **** you say? "mcdumbass is the stupidest coach ever, he destroyed this team ,we are set back 50 years!" is not questioning a coach, its trolling.

See what I mean? Trolls.

I bet that none of you can find a post from me like this. Just try even finding a single time I have called him anything other than McDaniels or McD. I also have no clue where this 50 year thing comes from. I wouldn't expect anything different from the trolls though.

baja
11-05-2010, 08:08 AM
I'm not talking about questioning him in the last week..... Of course everyone gets it now.

That may help you understand why it is the way it is in your second paragraph a little better.

Ever consider that early on reasonable posters were on a wait and let the evidence come in mode before they screamed for Josh's head and now that the evidence is coming in a few posters are finding reason to criticize McD. You and a few others on the other hand called for his head without any evidence that it was warranted. I say firing Josh is still not warranted but questions are coming up with each game played.

jhns
11-05-2010, 08:10 AM
You want to know the real reason people hate on me? The biggest one used over the last year is that I have no character because I can't admit that I am wrong. Funny, it doesn't seem that I was wrong. Why would I admit to my opinion being wrong when it was right(or at least was way to early to say was wrong)? What is funnier is a lot of those people do not admit that they were wrong now that there is far more evidence of me being right than them.

Then there are the ones that just got upset because I spin the troll posts against the trolls. Others would come in and get offended at what I would say to someone else. An example is when people say I am a bad fan for.... I spin it to they are a bad fan for supporting a cancer in McDaniels. It is an obvious sarcastic spin that some don't seem to get.

Then there are the normal TSI/moose trolls of the board. The ones that claim you said all of this stuff that was never said. The ones that run around with the "you is stoopid!" ALL the time.

If you have other reasons for hating me, I would be glad to hear them. Maybe I can change my ways after some real reasons are pointed out.

Eldorado
11-05-2010, 08:16 AM
It's a cry for help, people. Oh, the humanity.

Bigdawg26
11-05-2010, 09:41 AM
I have been a broncos fan since I was nine years old, thirty-six years ago, and my confidence and faith in this team have never been lower. I don't even look forward to Sunday's now, as far as I'm concerned It feels like it's the offseason, nothing to cheer about. I have never felt this way. I have always gotten up for this team, nervous before every game, biting my nails, pacing the floor and screaming like a madman. It's a very sad time.

Yeah this is the first year will I accepted the fact that we are not a very good football team. But I dunno dude I felt the same way in Shanny's last year when that "defense" would take the field. Man that was the worst defense I ever saw in 20 years.

theAPAOps5
11-05-2010, 09:48 AM
Folks, jhns is an idiot why bother with him other than to ridicule him?

Hulamau
11-05-2010, 09:48 AM
I am truly amazed at how upset people get on things they have 0 control over.

You got that right Alec!!! The usual cast of characters are turning into a damn bunch of spoiled whiny p***Y's around here.. disgusting really ... Was mildly amusing at first but now its just getting old.

Y'd think Bowlen, Ellis and Josh invaded their homes raped their wives and children and cut their balls off, tied and gaged them in front of the tv and forced them to watch, ad infinitum, that commercial with the little pig in the car crying 'Wee Wee Wee' all the way home for days on end ... the way some of these characters around here are wringing their hands, knashing their teeth and coming unglued!

Just the kind of guys you'd want in your foxhole when the going gets tough!

Guess its not too suprising, much of the country seems to be devolving into a shrill, over the top, 'me first', panic prone bunch of chicken little fear mongers as it is.

Next think you know, some of these guys will be claiming Josh is a Muslim and trying to instill Sharia law upon Bronco nation ... Ha! :sunshine:

baja
11-05-2010, 09:56 AM
You got that right Alec!!! The usual cast of characters are turning into a damn bunch of spoiled whiny p***Y's around here.. disgusting really ... Was mildly amusing at first but now its just getting old.

Y'd think Bowlen, Ellis and Josh invaded their homes raped their wives and children and cut their balls off, tied and gaged them in front of the tv and forced them to watch, ad infinitum, that commercial with the little pig in the car crying 'Wee Wee Wee' all the way home for days on end ... the way some of these characters around here are wringing their hands, knashing their teeth and coming unglued!

Just the kind of guys you'd want in your foxhole when the going gets tough!

Guess its not too suprising, much of the country seems to be devolving into a shrill, over the top, 'me first', panic prone bunch of chicken little fear mongers as it is.

Next think you know, some of these guys will be claiming Josh is a Muslim and trying to instill Sharia law upon Bronco nation ... Ha! :sunshine:

I bet they are all Teabaggers.

24champ
11-05-2010, 10:13 AM
I think Pat was "blown away" by Josh McDaniels. I think Pat thought he found the new and fresh Mike Shanahan. Josh might be suffering from having too much asked of him. He needs a strong GM with good connections around the league. Does Xanders have those abilities? I don't know.

First of all, I'd really like to see Elway be brought on board as a part owner/COO/ Vice President of Football Operations. Ellis can stick around as CFO, but won't have any clout in the personnel meetings. It has to start at the top, changing the HC isn't going to do anything other than put the Broncos through another rebuild.

As far as Xanders goes, you bring up a good point about connections. Another reason why Elway would be good to bring on board. If there's a GM with better connections than Xanders, then I wouldn't be surprised to see Xanders included in a shake up.

bronco militia
11-05-2010, 10:36 AM
;)

baja
11-05-2010, 10:38 AM
LOL I don't like the implication but I admit it's funny as hell

bronco militia
11-05-2010, 10:41 AM
LOL I don't like the implication but I admit it's funny as hell

I wish I could remember who made that.....I copied that from the Mane in March of 2005

bendog
11-05-2010, 10:49 AM
Mr. Bowlen I want to thank you for agreeing to allow me to humbly interview you, Sir.

(Reading from piece of paper) That’s quite alright. I understand the fans are disappointed in my team’s performance, and I want to make it Canadian Rocky Mountain clear that I will not rest until my team is back up on top where I belong.

Yes Sir. Now how did you feel after the loss to Oakland?

(Reading from piece of paper) That’s quite alright. I understand the fans are disappointed in my team’s performance, and I want to make it Canadian Rocky Mountain clear that I will not rest until my team is back up on top where I belong.

Ummm. Yes Sir. Ummm. Jake Plummer was quoted as saying Shanahan expected perfection, and eventually that made the game distasteful so he quit. Would you care to comment.

(Reading from piece of paper) That’s quite alright. I understand the fans are disappointed in my team’s performance, and I want to make it Canadian Rocky Mountain clear that I will not rest until my team is back up on top where I belong.

Well, yes sir. But specifically what are you going to do? I mean, are you going to demand perfection from the team and Coach McDaniels?

My team, and don’t forget that.

Of course, Sir. You own the Broncos.

My team ... (indistinct muttering)

Sir, do you think Wink Martindale was the correct man for the defense after Mike Nolan quit or was fired or ... whatever?

(Rapid blinking as Bowlen looks at the paper in front of him) Defense .... defense, well I couldn’t hire Bilicheck, I distinctly recall being told I couldn’t hire him, so .... I think I asked him who I should hire from his staff .... well maybe Bob Kraft told me that .... Did you know that Bob is going to buy Diamond Cheese? I find that extraodinary.

(Ellis enters room.) I’m going to terminate this interview and strip you of Dove Valley credentials because of your disrespectful actions towards Mr. Bowlen.

But, but, but what’d I say that was disrespectful?

(Bowlen, reading from piece of paper) That’s quite alright. I understand the fans are disappointed in my team’s performance, and I want to make it Canadian Rocky Mountain clear that I will not rest until my team is back up on top where I belong.

He just keeps repeating that! Why won’t he say something meaningful?

(Ellis helps Bowlen up from his chair and holding Bowlen’s arm leads him out of the room) You questioned Mr. Bowlen’s sincerity in returning his team to the top and thereby impugned Mr. Bowlen’s integrity. You are hereby terminated. Security! Security! Escort this ... person to his desk and supervise his removal of his personal belongings, and take him to see Coach McDaniels for a thorough tongue lashing.

But, but I don’t work for you! (Security officers kidney punch reporter)

(Bowlen shrugs off Ellis’s hand) John, this miscreant does not show ME proper respect. I demand that MY team’s tradition be followed and I am given MY respect. I WANT him scourged well and properly. Have Tuten give him the full forty lashes, do you understand ME?

Of course, Mr. Bowlen, I will see to it personally.

Damn right, you will. Who is he, and how’d he get past security anyway? Does he want his money back or something? God damnit Joe, you’re supposed to keep these people away from me.

I’ll take care of it Sir. Please don’t excite yourself. You know Miz Anabel says it’s bad for you to become agitated.

Damn right I’m agitated. Who do these ****s think they are? It’s MY ****ing team. They’ll ****ing like what I ****ing feel like giving the ****s

bronco militia
11-05-2010, 10:55 AM
bwhahahahaha....awesome work dog

jhns
11-05-2010, 11:00 AM
Folks, jhns is an idiot why bother with him other than to ridicule him?

See what I mean about the trolls.

Sure, I am an idiot. An idiot that is much smarter than you. An idiot that knows much more about football than most on this site, as we can all tell by how wrong many of you have continually been.

Don't get angry, it is just how life is. Some people are better than others.

Broncomutt
11-05-2010, 11:24 AM
How many new regimes have done this? Off of the top of my head I can't think of any-

I don't recall Gruden gutting Dungy's Buccaneers. That's just one that comes immediately to mind. I don't pay close enough attention to other teams to come up with any other examples

Not saying it wouldn't happen. Just saying there's no guarantee the next coach guts the team. Neither you nor I knows what would happen under a new coach until it happens.

I know for a fact nobody saw some of the changes McDaniels made coming.

Bob's your Information Minister
11-05-2010, 11:30 AM
"We've had a culture of winning here under Pat Bowlen for 27 years," Ellis said. "When that started to slide (under Mike Shanahan) there were expectations that when we brought in the new head coach that would change immediately.

Wow, what a load of ****!

They didn't start to slide under Mike Shanahan. They were the same old team they always were post-Elway - mediocre as ****.

This slide into hell is 100% McDaniels.

Ellis is feeding Broncos fans a line of ****. What a guy.

http://i52.tinypic.com/2dt23qd.jpg

crawdad
11-05-2010, 11:37 AM
You got that right Alec!!! The usual cast of characters are turning into a damn bunch of spoiled whiny p***Y's around here.. disgusting really ... Was mildly amusing at first but now its just getting old.

Y'd think Bowlen, Ellis and Josh invaded their homes raped their wives and children and cut their balls off, tied and gaged them in front of the tv and forced them to watch, ad infinitum, that commercial with the little pig in the car crying 'Wee Wee Wee' all the way home for days on end ... the way some of these characters around here are wringing their hands, knashing their teeth and coming unglued!

Just the kind of guys you'd want in your foxhole when the going gets tough!

Guess its not too suprising, much of the country seems to be devolving into a shrill, over the top, 'me first', panic prone bunch of chicken little fear mongers as it is.

Next think you know, some of these guys will be claiming Josh is a Muslim and trying to instill Sharia law upon Bronco nation ... Ha! :sunshine:

Great post!

Mainly the reason I don't post much because of all the whining. Sure its tough to take but sack up to all of you wimps! We have been through some tough times as Bronco fans and it will not end ever.

That's football. Sometimes you get the breaks and sometimes you get broken.

Like I said, sack up, men!

24champ
11-05-2010, 11:53 AM
http://i52.tinypic.com/2dt23qd.jpg


Could someone please photoshop Joe Ellis on this pic? Need a new avatar.

theAPAOps5
11-05-2010, 12:04 PM
Bendog that was classic.

jhns is an idiot.

jhns
11-05-2010, 12:10 PM
Bendog that was classic.

jhns is an idiot.

That is Mr. Jhns to you...

worm
11-05-2010, 12:29 PM
Scott Pioli leaves the Patriots...and what do the Pats do? They don't promote heir apparent Caserio into Scott's role. Instead, they give Caserio the day-to day duties and then go out and hire well respected Floyd Reese as a 'Senior Football Advisor'.

They ensure they have multiple, seasoned football minds looking at the same set of problems. They work as a team...and this is a team with Belicheck as the HC!

IMO, from the outside looking in...the Pats have a good front office structure that puts the team in a position to succeed.

Who do we have looking at football issues from a front office perspective?
- Bowlen is 'taking a step back'
- Ellis is not a football guy as has been pointed out
- 11 year Bronco vet Goodman was fired
- Xanders was known for being a cap guy, is the third youngest GM and was promoted into a role that the more well qualified Caserio was deemed unready for in New England. His biggest plus is that he has a vote of approval from Josh. In fact, he owes his job to Josh.

That leaves a lot of the heavy lifting on all football related matter, including veto power on player personnel to Josh. The same person that is also responsible for the day-to-day execution of the entire team. Who has to address all the other duties required of the HC (duties that most first time HC's say are shocked at the sheer amount of the work). Who also is expected to support his brother in working with the quarterbacks. etc. etc. etc

Have the Bronco really put Josh in a postion to succeed? Can anyone person....much less a first time HC be expected to excel under these conditions? If not, who does that error in judgement belong to if not Joe Ellis and Pat Bowlen?

bendog
11-05-2010, 12:38 PM
[QUOTE=

Have the Bronco really put Josh in a postion to succeed? Can anyone person....much less a first time HC be expected to excel under these conditions? If not, who does that error in judgement belong to if not Joe Ellis and Pat Bowlen?[/QUOTE]

I've thought the same. It's "almost" as though there's another agenda with Bowlen beyond winning games. I think in time mcdaniels may be a good coach, but I doubt it'll be here. On the other hand, Bowlen may be on a five year plan with the team, and the fans will just have to "take it" and hope that when there's a new CBA, Bowlen goes back to paying payroll and hiring the best coaches he can get and hope McDaniels grows up.

Or he could be senile and is just cashing in.

Requiem
11-05-2010, 12:42 PM
Folks, jhns is an idiot why bother with him other than to ridicule him?

:thumbsup:

worm
11-05-2010, 12:43 PM
Here was what I wrote prior to the 2009 season on my observations of the front office.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=81374

There are many reasons why corporations\teams succeed, however there is a much shorter list of reasons of why they fail. I am curious how ya’ll would rate the 2009 Broncos front office against five of these factors that dramatically hinder the success of a company\team

Here are five factors and my observations.

1) Unclearly defined roles and responsibilities
What is the current division of power in the front office? The buck might stop with Pat but are the lines clearly drawn between each job? Comments to the media do not seem to accurately reflect the roles that are being assumed. For instance, Bowlen is on record saying that ‘Xanders will oversee all of the team's player personnel operations, including college scouting, pro personnel and contract negotiations’. Yet in every case this off-season it appears to be Bowlen and McDaniels that are leading. Sometimes at different times for similar situations. If it is not understood by the media, I have a tough time believing that it is not equally hard for the entire organization.

2) Poor communication
As a result of unclear roles and responsibilities, it appears that messages communicated from the front office to player reps and the media are conflicting or misunderstood. This front office seems incapable of communicating a consistent message.

3) Lack of experience in leadership roles
McDaniels, Xanders and Bowlen are all acting in roles that are new to them. Two of them also being very young. McDaniels in particular has never had experience working in an unstable organizational structure.

4) Quick shifts in strategic direction
This front office has set policy then had their actions immediately contradict it. Repeatedly. The Goodmans stay…then they go. Cutler stays…then he goes. Each case you might be able to explain away but looking at the entire body of work this off-season, the front office appears to be very reactive. Their strategy seems predicated on what others do, rather than on what they set themselves.


5) Lack of confidence in leadership by top performers
Both Cutler and Marshall have requested a change of scenery. You can lay it on the doorstep of the agent or the player but ultimately the more this happens the more you have to look inward at the organization.

Ask yourself the question...Is Denver appealing right now to highly sought after FAs? It used to be. It was once a prestigious place to play and often sited as a reason for why a FA signed here.


Blame each episode of drama this off-season on the player, the agent or another external source. However, until this front office is stabilized and acts as a cohesive unit, the only thing that will be consistant is that issues will continue to occur.

Accountability starts at the top. At this point I believe that any success the 2009 Broncos have on the field will be in spite of the front office and not due to it.

baja
11-05-2010, 12:49 PM
I've thought the same. It's "almost" as though there's another agenda with Bowlen beyond winning games. I think in time mcdaniels may be a good coach, but I doubt it'll be here. On the other hand, Bowlen may be on a five year plan with the team, and the fans will just have to "take it" and hope that when there's a new CBA, Bowlen goes back to paying payroll and hiring the best coaches he can get and hope McDaniels grows up.

Or he could be senile and is just cashing in.

Do senile people contrive to cash in? I'd say it's more like, "Oh look at the pretty ballon"

tsiguy96
11-05-2010, 12:50 PM
this forum gets more ridiculous by the week. its like all facts, logic and realistic situations are thrown out the window as soon as you come here.

bronco militia
11-05-2010, 12:54 PM
this forum gets more ridiculous by the week. its like all facts, logic and realistic situations are thrown out the window as soon as you come here.

it's a bye week......get used to it.

all things will be back to normal as soon as the broncos get a win

bendog
11-05-2010, 12:54 PM
Do senile people contrive to cash in? I'd say it's more like, "Oh look at the pretty ballon"

yes, baja they do. And you should know. Senile people let their family milk the cash cow for as long as they can.

Personally, I think his decision to go cheap is a calculated one, and his health is not that bad. But people are still paying for his stadium and renewing tix.

baja
11-05-2010, 12:55 PM
Here was what I wrote prior to the 2009 season on my observations of the front office.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=81374

There are many reasons why corporations\teams succeed, however there is a much shorter list of reasons of why they fail. I am curious how ya’ll would rate the 2009 Broncos front office against five of these factors that dramatically hinder the success of a company\team

Here are five factors and my observations.

1) Unclearly defined roles and responsibilities
What is the current division of power in the front office? The buck might stop with Pat but are the lines clearly drawn between each job? Comments to the media do not seem to accurately reflect the roles that are being assumed. For instance, Bowlen is on record saying that ‘Xanders will oversee all of the team's player personnel operations, including college scouting, pro personnel and contract negotiations’. Yet in every case this off-season it appears to be Bowlen and McDaniels that are leading. Sometimes at different times for similar situations. If it is not understood by the media, I have a tough time believing that it is not equally hard for the entire organization.

2) Poor communication
As a result of unclear roles and responsibilities, it appears that messages communicated from the front office to player reps and the media are conflicting or misunderstood. This front office seems incapable of communicating a consistent message.

3) Lack of experience in leadership roles
McDaniels, Xanders and Bowlen are all acting in roles that are new to them. Two of them also being very young. McDaniels in particular has never had experience working in an unstable organizational structure.

4) Quick shifts in strategic direction
This front office has set policy then had their actions immediately contradict it. Repeatedly. The Goodmans stay…then they go. Cutler stays…then he goes. Each case you might be able to explain away but looking at the entire body of work this off-season, the front office appears to be very reactive. Their strategy seems predicated on what others do, rather than on what they set themselves.


5) Lack of confidence in leadership by top performers
Both Cutler and Marshall have requested a change of scenery. You can lay it on the doorstep of the agent or the player but ultimately the more this happens the more you have to look inward at the organization.

Ask yourself the question...Is Denver appealing right now to highly sought after FAs? It used to be. It was once a prestigious place to play and often sited as a reason for why a FA signed here.


Blame each episode of drama this off-season on the player, the agent or another external source. However, until this front office is stabilized and acts as a cohesive unit, the only thing that will be consistant is that issues will continue to occur.

Accountability starts at the top. At this point I believe that any success the 2009 Broncos have on the field will be in spite of the front office and not due to it.

Good post worn.

It is clear that this team at best lacks decisiveness. Add Champ's contract to the body of evidence.

"Here's your deal Champ, ah wait we were just kidding"

jhns
11-05-2010, 12:55 PM
this forum gets more ridiculous by the week. its like all facts, logic and realistic situations are thrown out the window as soon as you come here.

Is that why you have been completely wrong about everything for the last 2 years?

tsiguy96
11-05-2010, 12:56 PM
yes, baja they do. And you should know. Senile people let their family milk the cash cow for as long as they can.

Personally, I think his decision to go cheap is a calculated one, and his health is not that bad. But people are still paying for his stadium and renewing tix.

explain how him firing a coach under contract and allowing mcdaniels to sign the FAs he has, and use the amount of payroll he has, is bowlen being cheap? do you just disregard what is actually happening to form your own reality and fit your completely stupid viewpoints?

Broncos_OTM
11-05-2010, 12:56 PM
That is Mr. Jhns to you...

A piece of **** is a piece of **** now matter how you try and dress it up

baja
11-05-2010, 12:58 PM
yes, baja they do. And you should know. Senile people let their family milk the cash cow for as long as they can.

Personally, I think his decision to go cheap is a calculated one, and his health is not that bad. But people are still paying for his stadium and renewing tix.

Usually it's the senile people that are getting milked by their family. It's the American way. ;D

bendog
11-05-2010, 01:00 PM
explain how him firing a coach under contract and allowing mcdaniels to sign the FAs he has, and use the amount of payroll he has, is bowlen being cheap? do you just disregard what is actually happening to form your own reality and fit your completely stupid viewpoints?

It is cheaper to pay shanny hush money (that's the settlement of the contract: shanny can't talk to the media aobut den or he forfiets 7 million) than to have the dead cap that they used to have when shanny was coach heading into a lockout.

You also understand that if the team extended the cutler and mashall contracts, the team still has to pay the bonus money even if there's a lockout. And, any FA signing would also require the team to pay the bonuses when there's a lockout.

jhns
11-05-2010, 01:03 PM
A piece of **** is a piece of **** now matter how you try and dress it up

You girls just need to grow up and get over it. I have been right all along. You girls have continuously gotten upset because I expressed opinions that are now showing to be the correct ones. I know this makes you feel stupid and now you have to turn into children.

Listen, I can't be blamed for my superior genetics. I can't help that I am smarter and more reasonable than you. You will have to blame my parents, and their parents, etc...

tsiguy96
11-05-2010, 01:19 PM
It is cheaper to pay shanny hush money (that's the settlement of the contract: shanny can't talk to the media aobut den or he forfiets 7 million) than to have the dead cap that they used to have when shanny was coach heading into a lockout.

You also understand that if the team extended the cutler and mashall contracts, the team still has to pay the bonus money even if there's a lockout. And, any FA signing would also require the team to pay the bonuses when there's a lockout.

they didnt pay hush money jackass, they paid what they had to pay given the terms of his release and his contract with washington. cutler and marshall didnt get locked up, doom and kuper did, as well as other players getting very good FA contracts, this year and last.

please learn what you are talking about before coming back and trying to falsely classify bowlen as cheap, hes anything but, and if you knew anything about him, he wants to win a super bowl more than anyone on this forum put together. this is his team, he cares about winning.

Broncos_OTM
11-05-2010, 01:40 PM
You girls just need to grow up and get over it. I have been right all along. You girls have continuously gotten upset because I expressed opinions that are now showing to be the correct ones. I know this makes you feel stupid and now you have to turn into children.

Listen, I can't be blamed for my superior genetics. I can't help that I am smarter and more reasonable than you. You will have to blame my parents, and their parents, etc...

First off you dont know what my opinion is on this subject. Unlike most of you i have sat back and try to support the coach who i didnt want. I wanted spagnolo

my issue with you is that you are a ****ing retard man. You may have been right, i dont know. I can barely get through the begining of most your posts cause all i see is a spoiled brat. kicking and stomping around with a big ole pouty face... Its funny that you are trying to prove to anyone anythig on here. to people you will probably never meet. and if you did meet most of them they would kick your ass

bowtown
11-05-2010, 01:43 PM
http://pic.phyrefile.com/e/ep/epp_b/2010/06/05/Oh_look__it_s_THIS_thread_again.jpg

baja
11-05-2010, 01:45 PM
It is cheaper to pay shanny hush money (that's the settlement of the contract: shanny can't talk to the media aobut den or he forfiets 7 million) than to have the dead cap that they used to have when shanny was coach heading into a lockout.

You also understand that if the team extended the cutler and mashall contracts, the team still has to pay the bonus money even if there's a lockout. And, any FA signing would also require the team to pay the bonuses when there's a lockout.
Hush money, right.

You're not fooling anyone dog you're trolling a board comprised of people you think little of (your statement).

bendog
11-05-2010, 01:46 PM
they didnt pay hush money jackass, they paid what they had to pay given the terms of his release and his contract with washington. cutler and marshall didnt get locked up, doom and kuper did, as well as other players getting very good FA contracts, this year and last.

please learn what you are talking about before coming back and trying to falsely classify bowlen as cheap, hes anything but, and if you knew anything about him, he wants to win a super bowl more than anyone on this forum put together. this is his team, he cares about winning.

watch it with the name calling, esp when you are wrong.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12868958

jhns
11-05-2010, 01:46 PM
. and if you did meet most of them they would kick your ass

LOL

Don't take it so seriously. I would love to see this happen though. I'm not sure I could fight as I roll around laughing at nerds making the internet into serious business.

bowtown
11-05-2010, 01:52 PM
watch it with the name calling, esp when you are wrong.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12868958

It's not hush money tard. The point of the money is not so Shanahan won't open his mouth, it's just part of his contract... just like not speaking about the ins and outs of the Broncos organization is part of the same contract.

bendog
11-05-2010, 01:54 PM
roflamo. right a contract that prevents a person from speaking about the organization is ..... not paying a guy to not be able to speak about the organization.

priceless

Beantown Bronco
11-05-2010, 02:04 PM
all things will be back to normal as soon as the broncos get a win

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xHYI3NQtC2A?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xHYI3NQtC2A?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

baja
11-05-2010, 02:07 PM
roflamo. right a contract that prevents a person from speaking about the organization is ..... not paying a guy to not be able to speak about the organization.

priceless

That clause you will find in almost every professional contract. It is there to protect the employer terminated employees from doing harm to their previous employer.

Hell I bet even dog catchers sign a non disclosure clause. But I bet you full well know that dog.

I wonder did you say, "Watch this guys I'm going to go over the the Orange Lame and have some fun with the kiddies over there"?

tsiguy96
11-05-2010, 02:12 PM
watch it with the name calling, esp when you are wrong.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12868958

read the entire article instead of the one sentence to support your argument. he is being paid because his contract was gauranteed. just because there is a contract stipulation saying he has to be quiet about it doesnt mean hes being paid hush money, hes being paid because he had a guaranteed contract.

bendog
11-05-2010, 02:15 PM
read the entire article instead of the one sentence to support your argument. he is being paid because his contract was gauranteed. just because there is a contract stipulation saying he has to be quiet about it doesnt mean hes being paid hush money, hes being paid because he had a guaranteed contract.

exactly. He is under contract and the contract prevents him from speaking. Now back to the pt of paying shanny is cheaper for bowlen that blowing out the cap like shanny does.

bowtown
11-05-2010, 02:19 PM
http://trollcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/weasel_word_forum_fag_trollcat.jpg

Broncos_OTM
11-05-2010, 02:20 PM
LOL

Don't take it so seriously. I would love to see this happen though. I'm not sure I could fight as I roll around laughing at nerds making the internet into serious business.

The pot alling the kettle black. Arent you the one on here yelling and screaming to anyone who will listen how you were right... Serious buisness indeed.

I didnt say i would kik your ass. But i have seen the insults that have been thrown your way and you dish out. It wouldnt surprise me one bit at all.

bendog
11-05-2010, 02:22 PM
http://trollcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/weasel_word_forum_fag_trollcat.jpg

no ****.

tsiguy96
11-05-2010, 02:22 PM
exactly. He is under contract and the contract prevents him from speaking. Now back to the pt of paying shanny is cheaper for bowlen that blowing out the cap like shanny does.

you just changed your argument to agree with me, yet try to make it sound like thats what you said all along.

bendog
11-05-2010, 02:26 PM
no I say that shanny takes the 7 mil over two years and accepts the restriction on speaking about the broncos, and that's "hush money" imo. I'm not interested in your bs about semantics. Its a fact that shanny gets 7 mil and he can't talk about the broncs if he wants to get paid. However, I really dougt he'd trash the organiztion anyway.

The pt is that it's cheaper for Bowlen to fire him, and pay the 14 mil or whatever he's paid out and will pay out than to keep shanny and keep signing FAs as Shanny signs. If it makes you happy to "win semantic debating pts" to stay on topic, by all means do so with my best wishes.

baja
11-05-2010, 02:29 PM
exactly. He is under contract and the contract prevents him from speaking. Now back to the pt of paying shanny is cheaper for bowlen that blowing out the cap like shanny does.

Your take on this just gets sillier and sillier. So Pat fired Shanny and pays him 7 mil for 3 years because he was afraid Mike might make him spend too much money on FAs. As if Bowlen has no say no who gets what contract.

baja
11-05-2010, 02:31 PM
no I say that shanny takes the 7 mil over two years and accepts the restriction on speaking about the broncos, and that's "hush money" imo. I'm not interested in your bs about semantics. Its a fact that shanny gets 7 mil and he can't talk about the broncs if he wants to get paid. However, I really dougt he'd trash the organiztion anyway.

<b>The pt is that it's cheaper for Bowlen to fire him, and pay the 14 mil or whatever he's paid out and will pay out than to keep shanny and keep signing FAs as Shanny signs. If it makes you happy to "win semantic debating pts" to stay on topic, by all means do so with my best wishes.

Are you trying for stupid?

Pat, "Hey Mike come here a minute, I want you to cut back on spending, oh BTW I want every contract run by me. Have a nice day Mike."

jhns
11-05-2010, 02:32 PM
The pot alling the kettle black. Arent you the one on here yelling and screaming to anyone who will listen how you were right... Serious buisness indeed.

I didnt say i would kik your ass. But i have seen the insults that have been thrown your way and you dish out. It wouldnt surprise me one bit at all.

Well, I just speak the truth. I was right. I can't help that this is the truth.

Anyways, I don't really care about this fighting thing. Again, I would laugh a lot. I'm really not scared of internet nerd rage. I don't really see many of the women from the "everything must be positive or I'm going all PMS" crowd really trying anything anyways. If anything, they would try to be my friend when we meet. I have seen it happen before. Don't worry though, I am a nice guy. I would be friendly right back.

bowtown
11-05-2010, 02:37 PM
Wasn't there something about Shanahan wanting Bowlen to build a new mulit-million dollar training facility and abandon the Paul Bowlen facitily built in the 90's and named after Pat's dad?

I think there is a very real possibilty that Ellis stepped in and convinced Pat that Shanahan was spending too much of his money without enough return. I don't think it points to Pat being broke as many have speculated, just that they came to feel that Shanahan's large spending requests were not paying off after so many years of mediocrity.

bendog
11-05-2010, 02:43 PM
Your take on this just gets sillier and sillier. So Pat fired Shanny and pays him 7 mil for 3 years because he was afraid Mike might make him spend too much money on FAs. As if Bowlen has no say no who gets what contract.

you betcha. Shanny would be going ballistic with this defense. It might not be better, but bet your ass that there'd be some these free agents in Denver

http://www.emptythebench.com/2010/03/09/best-nfl-2010-free-agents/

And for better or worse, this is a shanahan offseason

http://walterfootball.com/offseason2010was.php

baja
11-05-2010, 02:50 PM
you betcha. Shanny would be going ballistic with this defense. It might not be better, but bet your ass that there'd be some these free agents in Denver

http://www.emptythebench.com/2010/03/09/best-nfl-2010-free-agents/

And for better or worse, this is a shanahan offseason

http://walterfootball.com/offseason2010was.php

I don't know what to say to you dog. I guess you are of the school that thinks Shanny ran Pat Bowlen and Pat was so weak his only choice was to fire Mike rather than stand up to him. As if firing him took less guts than saying Mike here is your budget for players this season do your best.

bendog
11-05-2010, 03:10 PM
I don't know what to say to you dog. I guess you are of the school that thinks Shanny ran Pat Bowlen and Pat was so weak his only choice was to fire Mike rather than stand up to him. As if firing him took less guts than saying Mike here is your budget for players this season do your best.

No, I think shanny would have quit when bowlen stopped spending, and then since shanny had no contract, shanny might comment on the broncos. And remember, Washington wasn't the only team that wanted to hire him.

theAPAOps5
11-05-2010, 03:19 PM
People still taking Ms. jhns serious. Just put him on ignore and then read him every now and then for a good laugh. Then call him names, its a fun way to deal with a troll!

baja
11-05-2010, 03:26 PM
No, I think shanny would have quit when bowlen stopped spending, and then since shanny had no contract, shanny might comment on the broncos. And remember, Washington wasn't the only team that wanted to hire him.

Man are you digging. Shanny would be a fool to lay into the Broncos. Tell me the last fired coach that did a thing like that. It would be professional suicide. NFL people keep it in house, at least the smart ones do. Pat stopped the inflated contracts before Mike left. I might have been because of dead money but look at the numbers the last couple of years.

The fact that other teams wanted Mike has nothing to do with the point you are trying to make. I have always said Mike is a great coach, GM not s much. I see Snyder has a strong GM over Mike.

Anyway your point is so outlandish I struggle to believe you are serious about it.

Houshyamama
11-05-2010, 03:41 PM
Its from the Jared has Aides episode. First episode of Season 6.

danke

spdirty
11-05-2010, 07:18 PM
Man are you digging. Shanny would be a fool to lay into the Broncos. Tell me the last fired coach that did a thing like that. It would be professional suicide.

LOL Mike Shanahan comes to mind.

baja
11-05-2010, 07:23 PM
LOL Mike Shanahan comes to mind.

How so?

spdirty
11-05-2010, 07:31 PM
The mood of BroncosNation: Does he expect dips in attendance, merchandise sales and luxury-suite occupancy with a third four-game losing streak in a span of 18 games?


"No, our fans continue to support us," Ellis said.


Counting playoffs, the Broncos have enjoyed 328 consecutive sellouts. The crowds were exuberant during the Broncos' first two home games, against Seattle and Indianapolis.


"And the Jets game was one of the best crowds I've seen in 10 years at our stadium," Ellis said. "They may be angry and upset with us right now and that's understandable. But they've been great this year. Obviously the way the Oakland game went, they expressed their anger. Who wouldn't have?"





If Ellis and Bowlen think they can take the fans loyalty for granted, and think this city will pack Invesco to see a bad team, they are quickly about to get a nasty dose of reality. The second quarter of the Oakland game should have shown them that Broncos fans will not put up with this ****.

The fact that Bowlen has hired this douchebag to have more responsibilities than cleaning toilets is evidence that Pat has entered into his "Off into the wild blue yonder" years.

spdirty
11-05-2010, 07:33 PM
How so?

Really? OK, I'll give you a hint. The Denver Broncos were not his first gig as a head coach.

baja
11-05-2010, 07:37 PM
Really? OK, I'll give you a hint. The Denver Broncos were not his first gig as a head coach.

He went after money he was stiffed for that is not trashing a franchise by airing the laundry. If he did that he would be slapped with a law suit so fast it would make lightening look slow.

I recall he was very careful about what he said even about the money he was owed. There was a lot of I can't comment about that if I remember correctly.

ZONA
11-06-2010, 01:06 AM
Im glad there's no guarantee that McD will be around if we cant turn it around. We should of been improving drastically by now instead of regressing.

Don't you think it's hard to judge that based on all the key injuries we've had. I mean, a brand new 4 cylinder car by all accounts should get great gas mileage but if 2 of the tires are flat, it's not going to get good gas mileage. This would be a tough year to judge much with all the major injuries and players coming off of major injuries. Then you have all the missed games by players who didn't have a major injury, but bad enough for them to miss a few games here and there. I'm not saying we shouldn't be better then we are because I do think our players haven't really played great so far but part of what makes other players better is when they have good players around them. You start removing good players and that puts more pressure on the rest of the guys because there are now holes in the defense so to speak.

BroncoBuff
11-06-2010, 09:58 AM
Wasn't there something about Shanahan wanting Bowlen to build a new mulit-million dollar training facility and abandon the Paul Bowlen facitily built in the 90's and named after Pat's dad?

I think there is a very real possibilty that Ellis stepped in and convinced Pat that Shanahan was spending too much of his money without enough return. I don't think it points to Pat being broke as many have speculated, just that they came to feel that Shanahan's large spending requests were not paying off after so many years of mediocrity.

That's thinking outside the box, that's good.

I've all along suspected Mike's personality played a big part in his firing, maybe as much as the W-L. Not just the free-spending you mention, but his quasi-megalomaniacal personality - cameras in every room at Dove Valley, new DC every year, shopping-mall sized house, wanting to abandon the Bowlen Center. Even his draft patterns showed signs of this ... three straight CBs one year, three D-Line another ... as if throwing numbers at "the problem" would stop all "their excuses." And again Larry Coyer ... I'm a broken record I know, but something's wrong with a mind that could find fault with Coyer.

Not sure what part Ellis might've played in all this ... would've taken some real stones to go to Pat suggesting he bounce Shanahan. Unless maybe there were several FO types backing him up.

elsid13
11-06-2010, 11:49 AM
That's thinking outside the box, that's good.

I've all along suspected Mike's personality played a big part in his firing, maybe as much as the W-L. Not just the free-spending you mention, but his quasi-megalomaniacal personality - cameras in every room at Dove Valley, new DC every year, shopping-mall sized house, wanting to abandon the Bowlen Center. Even his draft patterns showed signs of this ... three straight CBs one year, three D-Line another ... as if throwing numbers at "the problem" would stop all "their excuses." And again Larry Coyer ... I'm a broken record I know, but something's wrong with a mind that could find fault with Coyer.

Not sure what part Ellis might've played in all this ... would've taken some real stones to go to Pat suggesting he bounce Shanahan. Unless maybe there were several FO types backing him up.

The cameras is every room was something Shanahan learned from Welsh 49er Systems. The record the meetings, so new assistant coaches/players can use them as learning tool. It knowledge management at its best.

epicSocialism4tw
11-06-2010, 02:14 PM
http://webmdev.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/iraq_baghdadbob.jpg

TonyR
11-06-2010, 02:50 PM
Pat Bowlen assumes a much lower profile in Denver, amid questions regarding his health
Posted by Mike Florio on November 6, 2010 3:04 PM ET
In recently addressing the job security of coach Josh McDaniels and other issues relating to the franchise, Broncos COO Joe Ellis explained that owner Pat Bowlen has decided to step back from the spotlight and allow Ellis to speak on behalf of team management.

As explained by Alan Prendergast of Denver Westword, there's evidence that Bowlen's low profile arises from health problems.

For example, Woody Paige of the Denver Post recently had this to say regarding the long-time owner's status: "Bowlen stood quietly on the sideline at the end of the loss Sunday night and did not talk to the media afterward. He has medical issues, and is maintaining a much lower profile (read: no profile at all) this season."

Per Predergast, Broncos spokesman Patrick Smyth disputed Paige's contention. "Mr. Bowlen is heavily involved in all matters of the organization and remains a key figure on several NFL committees," Smyth told Prendergast via e-mail. "He does, however, maintain a less visible role with regard to interviews and media appearances."

Citing two unnamed sources, Prendergast reports that Ellis is "now the team's major decision maker on most, if not all, key financial and management questions."

It remains to be seen whether Bowlen has chosen to assume a lower profile, or whether his health has forced him to step aside, with the organization trying to create the impression that Bowlen has opted to stand in the background. For fans, the far bigger concern is that the team stinks right now, and it doesn't really matter much how it got to this point.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/06/pat-bowlen-assumes-a-much-lower-profile-in-denver-amid-questions-regarding-his-health/

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2010/11/sources_pat_bowlen_no_longer_broncos_major_decisio n_maker_amid_memory_loss_questions.php

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_16496281

footstepsfrom#27
11-06-2010, 02:58 PM
Empty suit who really said nothing...that's the impression I get.

bpc
11-06-2010, 04:47 PM
**** you, Ellis.

QFT.

<a href="http://s434.photobucket.com/albums/qq68/bpc5180/?action=view&current=TheTwoTowers_WormtongueAndKingTh-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq68/bpc5180/TheTwoTowers_WormtongueAndKingTh-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

strafen
11-06-2010, 06:35 PM
Wasn't there something about Shanahan wanting Bowlen to build a new mulit-million dollar training facility and abandon the Paul Bowlen facitily built in the 90's and named after Pat's dad?

I think there is a very real possibilty that Ellis stepped in and convinced Pat that Shanahan was spending too much of his money without enough return. I don't think it points to Pat being broke as many have speculated, just that they came to feel that Shanahan's large spending requests were not paying off after so many years of mediocrity.What deos this have to do with the fact we're 2-6?
Is this Shanny's fault?
Your theory is a reaching one.
McDaniels supporters are doing anything in their power to look the other way.
Hey, we're 2-6. Got blown out at home by the raders. The raiders put 59 points on us in our house.
We followed that up by getting beaten by the 49ers.
How's something like that any good, or defendable?

bowtown
11-06-2010, 07:01 PM
What deos this have to do with the fact we're 2-6?

Absolutely nothing. Not even sure why you felt the need to mention this.

Is this Shanny's fault?

No, again, please see above. You are awfully defensive about nothing.

Your theory is a reaching one.

How so? Would love to hear your rebuttle and theories.

McDaniels supporters are doing anything in their power to look the other way.

WTF does McDaniels have anything to do with my post?

Hey, we're 2-6. Got blown out at home by the raders. The raiders put 59 points on us in our house.
We followed that up by getting beaten by the 49ers.
How's something like that any good, or defendable?

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much. I didn't even mention our record this year or try to defend it in any way. I was talking about a situation that happend 3 years ago. Your own personal projections onto our current situation are dilusional and paranoid. Maybe you should take a little break from the Mane.

strafen
11-06-2010, 07:13 PM
Quote:

Your theory is a reaching one.

How so? Would love to hear your rebuttle and on theories.
You're not sure about your statement.
You've said: "Originally Posted by bowtown
Wasn't there something about Shanahan wanting Bowlen to build a new mulit-million dollar training facility and abandon the Paul Bowlen facitily built in the 90's and named after Pat's dad?

I think there is a very real possibilty that Ellis stepped in and convinced Pat that Shanahan was spending too much of his money without enough return. I don't think it points to Pat being broke as many have speculated, just that they came to feel that Shanahan's large spending requests were not paying off after so many years of mediocrity.
"

My rebuttal is to you to tell me what's the primary reason Shanahan got fired?
So far I hear; benching Plummer, no defense, no play-offs, Cutler, and now you're saying YOU THIINK it has to do with Ellis

bowtown
11-06-2010, 07:24 PM
You're not sure about your statement.
You've said: "Originally Posted by bowtown
Wasn't there something about Shanahan wanting Bowlen to build a new mulit-million dollar training facility and abandon the Paul Bowlen facitily built in the 90's and named after Pat's dad?

I think there is a very real possibilty that Ellis stepped in and convinced Pat that Shanahan was spending too much of his money without enough return. I don't think it points to Pat being broke as many have speculated, just that they came to feel that Shanahan's large spending requests were not paying off after so many years of mediocrity.
"

My rebuttal is to you to tell me what's the primary reason Shanahan got fired?
So far I hear; benching Plummer, no defense, no play-offs, Cutler, and now you're saying YOU THIINK it has to do with Ellis

Yes, I think Ellis, as Bowlen's right hand man and business advisor, may very well have had something to do with it. I am skeptical of Ellis and his power. But ultimately I think that Bowlen made the decision and with all the cards on the table, decided that the money he was shelling out to Shanahan's free agency and other FO moves were not giving him his desired ROI. So, he and Ellis decided to give that oppertunity to somenone else. I'm not really sure how that's such a reach. Seems pretty much like the most obvious answer. Whether that was the right decision, whether I agree with it, and who was hired after, have absolutely nothing to do it.

Again, you've jumped ship with your defensiveness and paranoia. You seem to view every post is an opportunity for you to slam this team and its current coaching staff. It's obviously really bothering you. You should really think about taking a break.

BroncoBuff
11-06-2010, 07:39 PM
Whoa guys, we're all on the same team here!

And I think I speak for all of us when I say that, if Pat can't handle the daily grind, we can put our confidence in the Mrs:


http://www.blacktie-colorado.com/have_you_met_images/32648875106457cc34a3e256609f7653.jpg

strafen
11-06-2010, 07:50 PM
Again, you've jumped ship with your defensiveness and paranoia. You seem to view every post is an opportunity for you to slam this team and its current coaching staff. It's obviously really bothering you. You should really think about taking a break.Are you a psychologist?

As a Bronco fan, I'm not a happy camper right now.
Why I'm a bad fan?
Get real man. We're on the verge of becoming a bad team. I'm not used to that, and I'm not going to be defending McDaniels and his poor coaching staff.
If that's alright with you, then more power to ya'

bowtown
11-06-2010, 08:01 PM
Are you a psychologist?

Nope. Never copped to it either.

As a Bronco fan, I'm not a happy camper right now.

Agreed. It's hard to be happy with these results.

Why I'm a bad fan?

Where did I say you were? More of your strange paranoia shining through.

Get real man. We're on the verge of becoming a bad team. I'm not used to that, and I'm not going to be defending McDaniels and his poor coaching staff.

On the verge? We ARE a bad team right now. There are a ton of reasons that go into that, but I didn't argue or mention any of them in my posts in this thread. You are picking a fight out of the midle of nowhere. If you want to discuss Ellis or Bowlen or Shanahan's firing in regards to my post, I'd love to hear it, but I didn't mention McD and I certainly didn't defend him or this team's record anywhere in my post.

10 big breaths, buddy. Come back and post tomorrow, or in a few weeks.

footstepsfrom#27
11-06-2010, 08:42 PM
Whoa guys, we're all on the same team here!

And I think I speak for all of us when I say that, if Pat can't handle the daily grind, we can put our confidence in the Mrs:


http://www.blacktie-colorado.com/have_you_met_images/32648875106457cc34a3e256609f7653.jpg
Ugh...isn't that Marilyn and Grandpa Munster's secret love child?

http://etceterama.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/grandpamunster.jpg

Cito Pelon
11-06-2010, 11:27 PM
Or he might not gut the team and actually get production from the talent we have. Alphonso Smith comes to mind.

RE Alphonso Smith, I heard on the local radio Smith mentioned in Detroit that he's much more relaxed and playing better because he isn't getting ridden hard by the coaches there like he was in Denver.

strafen
11-06-2010, 11:38 PM
RE Alphonso Smith, I heard on the local radio Smith mentioned in Detroit that he's much more relaxed and playing better because he isn't getting ridden hard by the coaches there like he was in Denver.In the words of Popps. That's a conspiracy.
That coming for Alphonzo Smith is not factual!
/lock it ROFL!LOL

footstepsfrom#27
11-07-2010, 01:42 AM
RE Alphonso Smith, I heard on the local radio Smith mentioned in Detroit that he's much more relaxed and playing better because he isn't getting ridden hard by the coaches there like he was in Denver.
He's already admitted he dogged it here, so I guess he did so because they rode him to hard? Whatever...fact is he didn't play up to his ability and it's his own fault, nobody elses.

Cito Pelon
11-07-2010, 01:39 AM
Bowlen was tired of stagnation and tried to shake things up some. We'll see how it plays out.

elsid13
11-07-2010, 04:43 AM
RE Alphonso Smith, I heard on the local radio Smith mentioned in Detroit that he's much more relaxed and playing better because he isn't getting ridden hard by the coaches there like he was in Denver.

Which is exactly the same words that Kern used last season after he was cut and end up in Tenn. That he was relaxed and able to focus on his job.

Jesterhole
11-07-2010, 06:02 AM
...and very little true knowledge of.

Unlike SUPER fans like you, jerk off, right? You're such a douche, no wonder you love McDaniels.

Jesterhole
11-07-2010, 06:08 AM
you guys act like ellis pretends to be a football professional. hes a business man in a business position, running football operations, not the football team.

Sounds like he was a driving force behind getting rid of Shanahan, getting McDouche, and trading Cutler. If that's true, then he is making football decisions, and therefor must be eliminated.

Jesterhole
11-07-2010, 06:16 AM
"We've had a culture of winning here under Pat Bowlen for 27 years," Ellis said. "When that started to slide (under Mike Shanahan) there were expectations that when we brought in the new head coach that would change immediately. When that didn't happen as fast as our fans wanted it to — we all wanted it to happen quickly — there was a lot of angst among our fans.

What is Ellis thinkng taking a shot like that at Shanahan? That's not going to win your angry fans over. It just sounds like he's making excuses for failure, rather than he's confident in the moves the Broncos have made. What a shame to see this coming from our management. This organization used to be a lot more classy than this. I never once saw Shanahan pointing fingers in the media.

That was my take too. It's starting to sound like (ok, I'm actually just making this up) Ellis wanted more power in the organization, and he knew the only way that was going to happen was to get rid of Shanahan. Slighting the coach in any way that took your franchise from punchline to back-to-back NFL Champions shows a serious lack of respect for the guy.

BroncoBuff
11-07-2010, 06:27 AM
Ugh...isn't that Marilyn and Grandpa Munster's secret love child?

They said the same thing about Georgia Frontiere ... but then all of a sudden there was a Lombardi Trophy.

It could happen here.

tsiguy96
11-07-2010, 06:34 AM
Sounds like he was a driving force behind getting rid of Shanahan, getting McDouche, and trading Cutler. If that's true, then he is making football decisions, and therefor must be eliminated.

"sounds like"

yea, members of the OM speculating sure is a credible source. and when did trading cutler become a bad thing, or given what shanahans record here or in DC, when did that become a bad thing?

if mcd doesnt work out thats fine, but maybe when you get more intelligent youll come to terms that you need to separate the firing of shanahan and the hiring of mcdaniels. shanahan needed to go.

worm
11-07-2010, 09:00 AM
They said the same thing about Georgia Frontiere ... but then all of a sudden there was a Lombardi Trophy.

It could happen here.

Frontiere was a World Class bitch.

worm
11-07-2010, 09:06 AM
Ugh...isn't that Marilyn and Grandpa Munster's secret love child?

http://etceterama.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/grandpamunster.jpg

Grandpa was doing well for himself if he was tappin Marilyn.

http://tvphotogalleries.com/data/505/134_pp.jpg

Jesterhole
11-07-2010, 10:50 AM
"sounds like"

yea, members of the OM speculating sure is a credible source. and when did trading cutler become a bad thing, or given what shanahans record here or in DC, when did that become a bad thing?

if mcd doesnt work out thats fine, but maybe when you get more intelligent youll come to terms that you need to separate the firing of shanahan and the hiring of mcdaniels. shanahan needed to go.

Yes, one day I'll be as smart as you and love McDouche. Do you do Baja first, does he do you first, or do you both stand over Popps as he does you both?

orinjkrush
11-08-2010, 09:02 AM
Since this thread is about front office/staff stuff, here's some data to consider:


Age Name Position(Yrs NFL experience in THIS LEVEL JOB)Primary Club EXP
37 Xanders GM 2 ATL
34 McD HC 2 NE
38 McCoy OC 2 CAR
47 Barone OL 1 SD
43 Studesville RB 10 BUF
48 Ligashesky TE 1 PIT
49 Martindale DC/LB 1 OAK
58 Nunnely DL 12 SD
53 Donatell DB 7 DEN
42 Priefer ST 8 KC