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Pseudofool
10-31-2010, 05:02 PM
Here's some splits that I thought were meaningful.

Situation CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
3rd down 39 69 446 56.5 6.46 34 3 2 9.0 78.5
Behind by 1-8 43 71 508 60.6 7.16 41 2 4 4.0 68.3
4th Q: +/- 7 pts. 27 45 287 60.0 6.38 28 1 2 2.0 67.5

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=8520

Pretty sure this doesn't include today's results. Make of them what the will.

(Sorry for another Orton thread, but I wanted to make this point, without getting in the middle of a turf war)

Broncomutt
10-31-2010, 05:10 PM
Three of our 8 games this year have ended with a TO that in some way involved Orton.

I actually like Orton, but if we go into the 4th quarter down by more than 3, it's over.

Maybe he thinks he supposed to ricochet passes off of DBs. It worked once.:juggle:

Popps
10-31-2010, 05:12 PM
Well, he gave us a 14 pt lead that the officials took away today.

He also gave us a lead against the Jets very late in the game.

How about we just hold onto a lead now and again, and not expect Orton (or Tebow) to be John Elway?

Because they won't be.

Pseudofool
10-31-2010, 05:14 PM
not expect Orton (or Tebow) to be John Elway? I'm not sure anyone expects this. But he's arguably playing his poorest football when it matters most.

oubronco
10-31-2010, 05:15 PM
D-line and O-line nuff said

WolfpackGuy
10-31-2010, 05:16 PM
I'm not sure anyone expects this. But he's arguably playing his poorest football when it matters most.

You don't need stats to determine that.

King garbage time.

Popps
10-31-2010, 05:17 PM
I'm not sure anyone expects this. But he's arguably playing his poorest football when it matters most.

And, "when it matters"... could that happen to be when defenses know we're going to pass, by chance? I wonder what QBs have great stats under those conditions?

I will say, he doesn't have the killer instinct a guy like Ben R. or Rivers has... yet.


But, for the 100th time... this is like having your transmission go out on your car and worrying about changing very functional wiper blades before you fix it.

oubronco
10-31-2010, 05:18 PM
But, for the 100th time... this is like having your transmission go out on your car and worrying about changing very functional wiper blades before you fix it.

Kinda like our Offense when McD took over?

Pseudofool
10-31-2010, 05:21 PM
And, "when it matters"... could that happen to be when defenses know we're going to pass, by chance? I wonder what QBs have great stats under those conditions? Defenses already know we're going to pass, pretty much no matter the situation, because we have no running game.

But, for the 100th time... this is like having your transmission go out on your car and worrying about changing very functional wiper blades before you fix it.You're right; getting better QB efficiency in key downs/series should be a low priority.

frerottenextelway
10-31-2010, 05:23 PM
2 min to go, need a TD, would u rather have Kyle Orton or Josh Freeman?

Pseudofool
10-31-2010, 05:26 PM
2 min to go, need a TD, would u rather have Kyle Orton or Josh Freeman?Despite Orton's superior overall line, in the same splits above, Freeman has much better numbers. (So Popps, there you have it, not all QBs struggle in such situations). Though I think this question is a bit unfair.

gtown
10-31-2010, 05:27 PM
D-line and O-line nuff said

This.

Why do we have to make it harder than it is?

WolfpackGuy
10-31-2010, 05:29 PM
2 min to go, need a TD, would u rather have Kyle Orton or Josh Freeman?

Freeman's going to be a player.

Bucs have to be breathing a sigh of relief after what's happened so far with Cutler.

frerottenextelway
10-31-2010, 05:35 PM
I think it's pretty much a guarantee I jinxed Tampa with my question/comment about Freeman.

Rascal
10-31-2010, 05:54 PM
Despite Orton's superior overall line, in the same splits above, Freeman has much better numbers. (So Popps, there you have it, not all QBs struggle in such situations). Though I think this question is a bit unfair.

That is a huge reach.

KS Bronco
10-31-2010, 05:59 PM
D-line and O-line nuff said

qft

that WILL be our focus this offseason! and to stay healthy

Rascal
10-31-2010, 06:00 PM
Having a o-line that could block worth a **** would help.

Plus the play calling has been complete ****.

Beantown Bronco
10-31-2010, 07:17 PM
I actually like Orton, but if we go into the 4th quarter down by more than 3, it's over.

At least one person missed the Tennessee game I guess. And several games last year.

WolfpackGuy
10-31-2010, 07:25 PM
Having a o-line that could block worth a **** would help.

Plus the play calling has been complete ****.

Nah, this is the "amoeba" you're talking about.

Broncomutt
10-31-2010, 07:28 PM
At least one person missed the Tennessee game I guess. And several games last year.

Still trying to convince people that this was the first game ending turnover by Orton?

Beantown Bronco
10-31-2010, 07:39 PM
Still trying to convince people that this was the first game ending turnover by Orton?

Yawn. So I forgot about the Jacksonville game. So did everyone else who tried to say either Indy or some other game. Yippee. You want a cookie or what?

Still doesn't change the fact that I'm right about everything else.

Broncomutt
10-31-2010, 07:46 PM
Yawn. So I forgot about the Jacksonville game. So did everyone else who tried to say either Indy or some other game. Yippee. You want a cookie or what?

Still doesn't change the fact that I'm right about everything else.

Don't need a cookie, the egg you're wearing is enough.

Interesting how you left out the fact that 3 of 8 games have ended with a TO when quoting me. If you're gonna "forget" things, don't cry when you get called out on it.

Bean if you're looking to convince me Orton is a good QB, you're barkin' up the wrong tree. I think he is. I just don't think he plays well in the clutch, and I think that was the point of Psuedo's stats.

Beantown Bronco
10-31-2010, 07:55 PM
Don't need a cookie, the egg you're wearing is enough.

Interesting how you left out the fact that 3 of 8 games have ended with a TO when quoting me. If you're gonna "forget" things, don't cry when you get called out on it.

I "left it out" because the third game didn't fit the criteria that was established in the original debate.

Bean if you're looking to convince me Orton is a good QB, you're barkin' up the wrong tree. I think he is. I just don't think he plays well in the clutch, and I think that was the point of Psuedo's stats.

I think he plays well in the clutch. The numbers presented above provide no context and simply aren't reliable IMO.

Had the refs not called that idiotic chop block and had Jarvis Moss not done that incredibly idiotic and unnecesarry block in the back, we're most likely the winners and not talking about any of this. I won't even get into Gaffney's constant brain farts this game which cost them first downs and points. All of this was outside Orton's control....as many things are. Yet he'll take the fall because it's his numbers that are affected.

eddie mac
10-31-2010, 08:00 PM
Orton is nowhere near being one of the major problems on this team.

1. OL
2. No pass rush
3. Run D
4. TE's
5. Old secondary

Way above anything on this list is the Front Office and their horrible job of drafting, signing and trading players since McDaniels arrived. Probably 2nd on the list is the woeful array of coaches McD has assembled below him.

Broncomutt
10-31-2010, 08:05 PM
Bean, we'll have to agree to disagree. Arguing further makes me say bad things about Orton and I don't like to because I like Orton and want him to remain the starter for now.

But I remember what many Chicago fans I've spoken with said about Orton when he first came on board.

"He's actually not a bad QB, just don't expect him to win games for you at the end."

I now see what they were talking about.

Pseudofool
10-31-2010, 08:09 PM
Bean if you're looking to convince me Orton is a good QB, you're barkin' up the wrong tree. I think he is. I just don't think he plays well in the clutch, and I think that was the point of Psuedo's stats.Yeah, that was my point, but I also think that clutchiness is a pretty important part of being an NFL QB and a leader as well. I think Orton's overall statistical line this season obscures his actual affects on winning/losing games.

orangemonkey
10-31-2010, 08:09 PM
And, "when it matters"... could that happen to be when defenses know we're going to pass, by chance? I wonder what QBs have great stats under those conditions?

I will say, he doesn't have the killer instinct a guy like Ben R. or Rivers has... yet.


But, for the 100th time... this is like having your transmission go out on your car and worrying about changing very functional wiper blades before you fix it.

Great example. So Orton is the "wiper blade" of the Denver Broncos. This might be the only thing you have ever written that was close to reality.

TheReverend
10-31-2010, 08:17 PM
Well, he gave us a 14 pt lead that the officials took away today.

He also gave us a lead against the Jets very late in the game.

How about we just hold onto a lead now and again, and not expect Orton (or Tebow) to be John Elway?

Because they won't be.

There's the mark of a champion!

Broncomutt
10-31-2010, 08:40 PM
Yeah, that was my point, but I also think that clutchiness is a pretty important part of being an NFL QB and a leader as well. I think Orton's overall statistical line this season obscures his actual affects on winning/losing games.

I will say this, if Orton had a truly viable (I don't mean great, I mean viable) running game, especially in the Red Zone, I think Orton could be pro-bowl material.

But tonight when the game was on the line, Orton drilled a 49er right between the numbers that Lloyd, thankfully, knocked into incompletion. Two plays later (I think) Orton throws the one that didn't get away.

BroncosSR
10-31-2010, 08:57 PM
Despite Orton's superior overall line, in the same splits above, Freeman has much better numbers. (So Popps, there you have it, not all QBs struggle in such situations). Though I think this question is a bit unfair.

Because we don't have Freeman?

BroncosSR
10-31-2010, 08:59 PM
Yawn. So I forgot about the Jacksonville game. So did everyone else who tried to say either Indy or some other game. Yippee. You want a cookie or what?

Still doesn't change the fact that I'm right about everything else.

Uhm. Jets? Whether you like it or not, it was a fumbled snap. And rather than fall on it and live to play another down, concrete feet tries to pick it up and run.

Beantown Bronco
10-31-2010, 09:07 PM
Uhm. Jets? Whether you like it or not, it was a fumbled snap. And rather than fall on it and live to play another down, concrete feet tries to pick it up and run.

Ummm, no. It was NOT ruled a fumbled snap. It was a bad snap charged to the center. And I don't think falling on it was the easiest thing in the world to do there, with the way it was bouncing unpredictably away from him. And it would've made things all but impossible to overcome anyway. Trying to pick it up and throw it away was just as likely to succeed as anything there IMO.

colonelbeef
11-01-2010, 08:29 AM
You don't need stats to determine that.

King garbage time.

This is the the clearly correct conclusion.

Homers touting Orton are good for lols as usual

Beantown Bronco
11-01-2010, 08:44 AM
King of Garbage Time? Well, considering garbage time has been starting in the first quarter, I'd take that as a compliment.