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Taco John
10-31-2010, 03:04 PM
Clough just mentioned on the radio that Orton was apparently seething when the Broncos traded for Quinn, and absolutely livid when they drafted Tebow... Hard to say how true it is, because of what a professional Orton is - and this was Sandy's point: That Orton deserves credit for how he's handled himself this year.

Just thought it was interesting...

Rock Chalk
10-31-2010, 03:06 PM
Who gives a ****.

There are bigger issues right now.

Like the fact our defense has given up 3 TDs in a single quarter in CONSECUTIVE games against some of the worst ****ing offenses ever tossed onto a field.

Popps
10-31-2010, 03:08 PM
Who gives a ****.

There are bigger issues right now.

Like the fact our defense has given up 3 TDs in a single quarter in CONSECUTIVE games against some of the worst ****ing offenses ever tossed onto a field.

Dude, people have to make it about the QB. You know that.

Takes too much thought to really dissect things properly.

baja
10-31-2010, 03:11 PM
we will hear all kinds of shiit from now to the end of the season.

Not going to be a fun year at all.

oubronco
10-31-2010, 03:12 PM
O-line and D-line nuff said

Taco John
10-31-2010, 03:12 PM
Who gives a ****.

There are bigger issues right now.

Like the fact our defense has given up 3 TDs in a single quarter in CONSECUTIVE games against some of the worst ****ing offenses ever tossed onto a field.

Well duh. We've done nothing to improve our d-line. We have absolutely no pressure from our NT. But that's a different thread.

Taco John
10-31-2010, 03:13 PM
Dude, people have to make it about the QB. You know that.

Takes too much thought to really dissect things properly.

Whatever dude. You've been applauding our non-moves on defense since Josh started making them. Don't tell anybody about being able to dissect things properly when you've been cheerleading what's been happening.

WolfpackGuy
10-31-2010, 03:13 PM
Can't blame Orton.

This team needed DL help the last two drafts, and it was there, but what do I know.

Keep drafting and trading for luxury!

Popps
10-31-2010, 03:14 PM
Whatever dude. You've been applauding our non-moves on defense since Josh started making them. Don't tell anybody about being able to dissect things properly when you've been cheerleading what's been happening.

I have no idea what you're talking about. "Non-moves?"

Anyway, I know you need to generate traffic and QB threads are the best for that... so, have at it.

Of course, any thinking fan out there knows this isn't about the QB position. But, as you were.

Popps
10-31-2010, 03:15 PM
Well duh. We've done nothing to improve our d-line. We have absolutely no pressure from our NT. But that's a different thread.

That thread would actually be worthy.

bpc
10-31-2010, 03:19 PM
Clough just mentioned on the radio that Orton was apparently seething when the Broncos traded for Quinn, and absolutely livid when they drafted Tebow... Hard to say how true it is, because of what a professional Orton is - and this was Sandy's point: That Orton deserves credit for how he's handled himself this year.

Just thought it was interesting...

Absolutely Kyle does. He could have been a big fat pussy like Jake Plummer and just gave up.

Taco John
10-31-2010, 03:19 PM
I have no idea what you're talking about. "Non-moves?"

Anyway, I know you need to generate traffic and QB threads are the best for that... so, have at it.

Of course, any thinking fan out there knows this isn't about the QB position. But, as you were.



I don't think our problems are about the QB position at all. I just thought it was an interesting thing that Sandy brought up.

Popps
10-31-2010, 03:21 PM
I don't think our problems are about the QB position at all. I just thought it was an interesting thing that Sandy brought up.

Eh, maybe Tebow will start and traffic will REALLY go up.

Goofball move if we do that, imo. Love the guy, but that would be some silly ****.

HILife
10-31-2010, 03:23 PM
Absolutely Kyle does. He could have been a big fat p***Y like Jake Plummer and just gave up.

or Cutler.

baja
10-31-2010, 03:23 PM
Bringing in Maroney was the first personal decision I really questioned this season.

What was the first personal decision you really questioned this season. just said WTF to your self.

Popps
10-31-2010, 03:23 PM
Absolutely Kyle does. He could have been a big fat p***Y like Jake Plummer and just gave up.

You mean Jake, the 2nd best Bronco QB of all time by any measurable statistic?

Then again, you were the one all over Cutler's ####, telling us what a "franchise" QB he was.

It's not as if anyone here pays attention to what you think about QBs... or anything else, really.

Glad you're able to come gloat after a loss like usual, though. You got what you wanted, buddy.

WolfpackGuy
10-31-2010, 03:23 PM
Bringing in Maroney was the first personal decision I really questioned this season.

What was the first personal decision you really questioned this season. just said WTF to your self.

Tebow

Taco John
10-31-2010, 03:24 PM
Eh, maybe Tebow will start and traffic will REALLY go up.

Goofball move if we do that, imo. Love the guy, but that would be some silly ****.

It's funny to me that I get traffic smack from people like you who come here every day. I pay more out of my pocket for extra traffic. I'm here to talk about the Broncos. Traffic here isn't a problem whatsoever.

Popps
10-31-2010, 03:24 PM
Bringing in Maroney was the first personal decision I really questioned this season.

What was the first personal decision you really questioned this season. just said WTF to your self.

We traded two rounds late in a draft for Maroney. That's not much to give up.
If he provides a back-up for certain spots, it's probably not a horrible move. That case is still open, imo.

To me, the A. Smith thing is starting to stink pretty badly, though.

OCBronco
10-31-2010, 03:24 PM
I really like the way that Orton handled himself in the offseason and assumed a leadership role on the team. I'm also happy with the progress he's made.

But going back to the offseason is a non-issue at this point. If Orton wants to be the man, he needs to take the next step. And that means he needs to start making plays at the end of the game, rather than making dumb mistakes.

bpc
10-31-2010, 03:27 PM
or Cutler.

This doesn't make sense. Cutler never quit. In fact, he was back in Denver the same week he performed in the pro bowl getting ready for the following season why all of him compadres were boozing it up and partying out on south beach.

BTW, if somebody spits in your face, i hope you don't put up with that ****. That would get you called a pussy, like Jake Plummer.

gyldenlove
10-31-2010, 03:28 PM
**** this ****, if he was pissy then trade his ass back to Chicago, they need a QB and if he wasn't then can someone please send a flaming bag of poo to this clough douche?

frerottenextelway
10-31-2010, 03:29 PM
Other than scoring or winning, Orton is doing well. Look at the stats. We have bigger problems.

oubronco
10-31-2010, 03:30 PM
Bringing in Maroney was the first personal decision I really questioned this season.

What was the first personal decision you really questioned this season. just said WTF to your self.

No D-line in the early part of the draft but alot of Offense

Popps
10-31-2010, 03:30 PM
This doesn't make sense. Cutler never quit.

Hilarious!

Oh my god. That's awesome.

The guy who pouted and left town because his name came up in trade talks "never quit."

Get off his jock, dude. It's embarrassing.

He never quit on the field, though. Nope... he stayed right out there throwing INTs, losing games the best he could.

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Rulon Velvet Jones
10-31-2010, 03:32 PM
Not buying it. This crap only starts to come out when a team is playing poorly.

Taco John
10-31-2010, 03:34 PM
**** this ****, if he was pissy then trade his ass back to Chicago, they need a QB and if he wasn't then can someone please send a flaming bag of poo to this clough douche?


Why wouldn't you allow a guy to have his valid emotions? He's handled himself as more than a professional. He's been absolutely stellar and instead of complaining about it and being public with his anger, he channelled it into his performance.

Orton isn't a problem. He's not exactly the solution. But he's far from being a problem.

steeledude
10-31-2010, 03:36 PM
Absolutely Kyle does. He could have been a big fat p***Y like Jake Plummer and just gave up.

I will preface this by saying I normally agree with the things you say.

But you have to admit, even a defeated, given-up Plummer, was better than a "professional" Orton. What was Plummer's record when he was benched for Cutler? 7-2? I mean he wasn't playing well at all, but there is no denying that the Snake won games for us while he was here. Throwing left handed or not. He inspired leadership in the whole team, they loved him in the locker room. There were a few malcontents--Javon Walker had gone on record alluding to the fact that the better QB was riding the bench, but most everyone supported Plummer.

Now we have Orton who didn't give up, has been real professional, and is fielding a terrible record. I don't care what the staff of the Denver Post tells us, Orton is not a leader. He does not inspire those around him. Some guys got it, some don't. I feel like Tebow might have it (though starting him this year would be foolish, we could ruin him). Orton just isn't a leader. Just because Plummer quit doesn't change the fact he was a man people believed in and wanted to follow when on the field.

It's something Cutler obviously really lacks, and he should have tried to learn as much from Jake as he could while the Snake was still around. But those two had a strained relationship from the get go.

broncosteven
10-31-2010, 03:36 PM
It's funny to me that I get traffic smack from people like you who come here every day. I pay more out of my pocket for extra traffic. I'm here to talk about the Broncos. Traffic here isn't a problem whatsoever.

Someone has to protect mCd from all those nasty IntErWebNet posters, It is down to Rusty and Popps now, I don't know if Baja fell off the mCd bandwagon because he is on Iggy.

Taco John
10-31-2010, 03:37 PM
But you have to admit, even a defeated, given-up Plummer, was better than a "professional" Orton.



Orton is 3x the quarterback that Plummer ever was.

bpc
10-31-2010, 03:39 PM
You mean Jake, the 2nd best Bronco QB of all time by any measurable statistic?

Then again, you were the one all over Cutler's ####, telling us what a "franchise" QB he was.

It's not as if anyone here pays attention to what you think about QBs... or anything else, really.

Glad you're able to come gloat after a loss like usual, though. You got what you wanted, buddy.

Oh, you mean Jake who was a total loser in Arizona and an INT machine before Shanahan signed him and took the ball out of his hands telling him just told him to manage games, not left handed passes? Plummer was a bum who couldn't win the big game and that's why he was replaced. Shanahan saw how he pissed down his leg all through the 05' playoffs which cost us a super bowl berth and had enough. In comes Jay. Instead of manning up and fighting for his position, he took his ball home and quit. That makes him a worthless POS no matter where he ranks in our stat books. The NFL is littered with guys who fought off rookie competition to maintain success. Jake decided he was above all that, quit trying, which makes him a loser and it's not surprising your #1 on his fan-club. You tend to support losers in Denver.

You can say whatever you want about Cutler. Doesn't bother me one bit. He's struggling in Chicago with very little talent around him....... yet he still has a better record with them than us. Hmmm.

I dont' come here to gloat after losses, i come here to point out how stupid you are and have been about McDaniels since Day 1 and try to get it through your thick skull that he sucks and is ruining our team. Guess what? 4-14 backs up my opinion and makes you look irrelevant in the total spectrum of this discussion. On a side note, it's hard NOT to come here after losses because that's all we do now!

gyldenlove
10-31-2010, 03:40 PM
Why wouldn't you allow a guy to have his valid emotions? He's handled himself as more than a professional. He's been absolutely stellar and instead of complaining about it and being public with his anger, he channelled it into his performance.

Orton isn't a problem. He's not exactly the solution. But he's far from being a problem.

Because if he is thinking about himself over team success he is part of the problem. We don't need emotional responses, we need people who are in this 100% for the team.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. If Orton is not the solution, then he is impeding the solution by being out there making him part of the problem.

I like Neckbeard, but he gets no more leeway for selfish whining than any other player.

elsid13
10-31-2010, 03:41 PM
Whatever dude. You've been applauding our non-moves on defense since Josh started making them. Don't tell anybody about being able to dissect things properly when you've been cheerleading what's been happening.

The NT in 3/4 doesn't generate pressure, he occupies the interior linemen. Which at this points Williams isn't doing.

elsid13
10-31-2010, 03:43 PM
Bringing in Maroney was the first personal decision I really questioned this season.

What was the first personal decision you really questioned this season. just said WTF to your self.

Bringing in Williams, Green and the rest of the vets for the line. And I got **** from most on this board when I posted that it was bad idea.

BlaK-Argentina
10-31-2010, 03:44 PM
Because if he is thinking about himself over team success he is part of the problem. We don't need emotional responses, we need people who are in this 100% for the team.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. If Orton is not the solution, then he is impeding the solution by being out there making him part of the problem.

I like Neckbeard, but he gets no more leeway for selfish whining than any other player.

Selfish whining? He never said a word.

Popps
10-31-2010, 03:45 PM
Oh, you mean Jake.... bla bla, I love Cutler... bl bla... I hate the Broncos... bla bla...

Jake was a winner in Denver.

Jay was a massive loser.

None of your Cutler knob-slobbering will ever change that, boss.

What is it about him you love so much... the chin? If so, which one?

BlaK-Argentina
10-31-2010, 03:50 PM
Jake was a winner in Denver.

Jay was a massive loser.

None of your Cutler knob-slobbering will ever change that, boss.

What is it about him you love so much... the chin? If so, which one?

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

Funniest thing is he's bitching about Plummer taking his ball and going home when that's exactly what baby Jay did.

Seriously I'll never understand how guys like bpc keep defending that POS INT machine QB. At least Plummer won a LOT of games, Cutler never did **** for us.

bpc
10-31-2010, 03:53 PM
Jake was a winner in Denver.

Jay was a massive loser.

None of your Cutler knob-slobbering will ever change that, boss.

What is it about him you love so much... the chin? If so, which one?

Popps - the picture of hypocrisy: You say that Plummer is a winner but that Shanahan didn't win enough for you, yet their careers coincided and in Jay's time at the helm, the offense was been much better under Jay despite tougher circumstances via injuries/talent/etc.

Damn you're dumb and completely incoherent to all things Bronco related. It's really not a surprise to me, but if I keep telling you long enough maybe it will register.

frerottenextelway
10-31-2010, 03:56 PM
Jake was a winner in Denver.

Jay was a massive loser.

None of your Cutler knob-slobbering will ever change that, boss.

What is it about him you love so much... the chin? If so, which one?

Cutler did have a better winning percentage than Orton here.

Just sayin', if that's what we're measuring things by, then Orton is the problem.

fontaine
10-31-2010, 03:57 PM
Bringing in Williams, Green and the rest of the vets for the line. And I got **** from most on this board when I posted that it was bad idea.

No kidding. I had some homer a$$hole telling me Akin Ayodele was the same player that Andre Davis was for us.

BlaK-Argentina
10-31-2010, 03:58 PM
Cutler did have a better winning percentage than Orton here.

Just sayin', if that's what we're measuring things by, then Orton is the problem.

Right now everything's a problem. Except Lloyd. :approve:

fontaine
10-31-2010, 04:00 PM
Jake was a winner in Denver.

I like how you left the part out about how Jake wasn't giving 100% during practice, and couldn't even throw the ball on the one basic rollout gimmick play he was any good at.

Other than he was a real winner allright. He was such a winner that he quit the NFL right after that season.

frerottenextelway
10-31-2010, 04:00 PM
Right now everything's a problem. Except Lloyd. :approve:

Damn Lloyd is nasty, that TD catch was something special.

Broncomutt
10-31-2010, 04:02 PM
At least Orton hasn't given the one finger salute to the home crowd...yet.:thumbs:

bpc
10-31-2010, 04:03 PM
Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

Funniest thing is he's b****ing about Plummer taking his ball and going home when that's exactly what baby Jay did.

Seriously I'll never understand how guys like bpc keep defending that POS INT machine QB. At least Plummer won a LOT of games, Cutler never did **** for us.

Jay never took his ball and went home. He attempted to get a leg up on the new offensive playbook a few days after the pro bowl when he could have been vacationing and there were trade talks about him not more than two or three weeks later. Call it whatever you want but things tumbled down to there. I'm not going to rehash the whole situation because it's stupid and a waste of all of our times. If you don't know, go read up on it.

And besides, i expect you to be smarter than this. This thread talked about Orton not giving in to his anger to which at that point I stated, exactly, I give Kyle Orton a lot of credit for standing up to the situation, he wasn't a bitch like Jake Plummer where then you fell for Popps doing his F5 tornado impression trying to change the subject by saying i'm still enamored with Jay Cutler. I expect you to be prepared for this next time now that i've fore-warned you.

STAY ON SUBJECT PEOPLE!

Kyle Orton = Mentally tough competitor unfortunately not much ELITE talent
Jake Plummer = Handball bitch who was afraid to compete.

/end of story

UberBroncoMan
10-31-2010, 04:08 PM
...here I thought he was seething for throwing an INT/turnover to end the game (yet again), or how bad we've done on offense (we're below 20th in points scored).

****ing lame topic. Who wouldn't be pissed to see the trades and draft happen? He handled it publicly the correct way though.

BlaK-Argentina
10-31-2010, 04:11 PM
Jay never took his ball and went home. He attempted to get a leg up on the new offensive playbook a few days after the pro bowl when he could have been vacationing and there were trade talks about him not more than two or three weeks later. Call it whatever you want but things tumbled down to there. I'm not going to rehash the whole situation because it's stupid and a waste of all of our times. If you don't know, go read up on it.

And besides, i expect you to be smarter than this. This thread talked about Orton not giving in to his anger to which at that point I stated, exactly, I give Kyle Orton a lot of credit for standing up to the situation, he wasn't a b**** like Jake Plummer where then you fell for Popps doing his F5 tornado impression trying to change the subject by saying i'm still enamored with Jay Cutler. I expect you to be prepared for this next time now that i've fore-warned you.

STAY ON SUBJECT PEOPLE!

Kyle Orton = Mentally tough competitor unfortunately not much ELITE talent
Jake Plummer = Handball b**** who was afraid to compete.

/end of story

I laughed at Popps' "double chin" joke. I still don't understand why you defend Cutler so much. I've read all I had to read about the whole trade situation and I still believe he acted like a little bitch.
They both acted like pussies but at least Jake won games for us and his time here was really enjoyable for me. Cutler's, not so much.

Jay3
10-31-2010, 04:17 PM
Was Orton seething when he broke the back of the Broncos with an avoidable fumble today?

Popps
10-31-2010, 04:20 PM
Popps - yada yada yada.... I suck Jay... yada yada yada....

Hold on, let me see if this posts changed the stats...

Nope.

Jake won.

Jay lost. (And is still playing like ****.)


Keep trying, though!

Popps
10-31-2010, 04:21 PM
They both acted like pussies but at least Jake won games for us and his time here was really enjoyable for me. Cutler's, not so much.

Well, that's because you're a Broncos fan and WANT us to win games.

BPC... not so much.

extralife
10-31-2010, 04:23 PM
Why wouldn't Orton be mad? Shouldn't he be mad? Isn't that a positive thing?

Man, I used to roll my eyes at all the garbage about Orton "never getting respect" or whatever, but it's starting to ring true right about now. He has absolutely maxed his ability this year, and there's no one else on our team that can come close to saying that. To bench him would be beyond stupid. It would be catastrophically idiotic. It would be an insult to every player on the team. To compare Orton of '10 to Jake Plummer of '06 is <i>criminal</i>, and if you put this year's Orton on the '05 Broncos we win the super bowl. I can't believe I am saying that--really, I can't--but it's the complete truth.

INbronco
10-31-2010, 04:24 PM
We traded two rounds late in a draft for Maroney. That's not much to give up.
If he provides a back-up for certain spots, it's probably not a horrible move. That case is still open, imo.

To me, the A. Smith thing is starting to stink pretty badly, though.

I remember reading a post late last year where it was claimed A. Smith would never amount to much at any position except CB. Poster made some claims about how there was an absolute reason he would be no good as nickle and could only flourish at CB. Don't think he has played that position much for us because Mcd never gave him the chance. I also wondered if that draft was done so they could ultimately dump Bailey

Since Mcd drafted him he had to know that fact; therefore I was surprised they cut him so early. Granted they had reasons for keeping some other guys but it smacks of not letting him play his natural position. That seems also be borne out in Detroit since he is doing so well there.

If Smith does continue to flourish in Detroit, that tells me that Mcd just cannot recognize talent and use it properly. Perhaps the Hillis thing is just another example.

What better endictment of a HC could there be? To me that is the first major sign that he should be fired. I am about to jump off this bandwagon!!!

steeledude
10-31-2010, 04:26 PM
At least Orton hasn't given the one finger salute to the home crowd...yet.:thumbs:

Neither did Jake. That's one of the biggest pieces of hyperbole out there surrounding him. He flipped off one guy in the stadium. Not the whole crowd.

gyldenlove
10-31-2010, 05:02 PM
Selfish whining? He never said a word.

According to the first post in the thread, he may have said several words.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-31-2010, 06:14 PM
Sandy Clough is about as reliable as my bowel movements. He's there every day, and he usually stinks.

What a ****ing joke. Nice thread, Taco.

Beantown Bronco
10-31-2010, 06:14 PM
I will preface this by saying I normally agree with the things you say.

But you have to admit, even a defeated, given-up Plummer, was better than a "professional" Orton. What was Plummer's record when he was benched for Cutler? 7-2? I mean he wasn't playing well at all, but there is no denying that the Snake won games for us while he was here. Throwing left handed or not. He inspired leadership in the whole team, they loved him in the locker room. There were a few malcontents--Javon Walker had gone on record alluding to the fact that the better QB was riding the bench, but most everyone supported Plummer.

Now we have Orton who didn't give up, has been real professional, and is fielding a terrible record. I don't care what the staff of the Denver Post tells us, Orton is not a leader. He does not inspire those around him. Some guys got it, some don't. I feel like Tebow might have it (though starting him this year would be foolish, we could ruin him). Orton just isn't a leader. Just because Plummer quit doesn't change the fact he was a man people believed in and wanted to follow when on the field.

It's something Cutler obviously really lacks, and he should have tried to learn as much from Jake as he could while the Snake was still around. But those two had a strained relationship from the get go.

Wow. This thread has fail written all over it. Sorry, but I've never read a more thoroughly incorrect post from start to finish.

Orton would probably be undefeated this year if he had that early season 2006 defense. Plummer hung them out to dry left and right and they didn't allow a single TD for over a month. They were statistically among the best defenses in history over the first 8 weeks or so of that season.

The team loves Orton at least as much as Plummer's teams loved him. Kupesdad has confirmed and posted as much several times here. Care to doubt that?

Dr. Broncenstein
10-31-2010, 06:17 PM
Bringing in Maroney was the first personal decision I really questioned this season.

What was the first personal decision you really questioned this season. just said WTF to your self.

Getting rid of Hillis.

Taking in Brady Quinn.

I realize it was all one move, but each transaction separately was WTF worthy to me.

tsiguy96
10-31-2010, 06:20 PM
bull****. he signed a one year extension soon after

cabronco
10-31-2010, 06:25 PM
Getting rid of Hillis.

Taking in Brady Quinn.

I realize it was all one move, but each transaction separately was WTF worthy to me.


This for sure ^^^. I thought it was a stupid move then, and still today.

Dedhed
10-31-2010, 06:37 PM
Your threads suck

RaiderH8r
10-31-2010, 06:51 PM
Why wouldn't Orton be mad? Shouldn't he be mad? Isn't that a positive thing?

Man, I used to roll my eyes at all the garbage about Orton "never getting respect" or whatever, but it's starting to ring true right about now. He has absolutely maxed his ability this year, and there's no one else on our team that can come close to saying that. To bench him would be beyond stupid. It would be catastrophically idiotic. It would be an insult to every player on the team. To compare Orton of '10 to Jake Plummer of '06 is <i>criminal</i>, and if you put this year's Orton on the '05 Broncos we win the super bowl. I can't believe I am saying that--really, I can't--but it's the complete truth.

I don't think this team can be any more insulted than they have been over the last 17 games. Losing at home to the dog**** raiders by 45 and not showing an ounce of desire or fire in the second half to even attempt to save face is an insult to everybody who has ever played for or supported this franchise so really, f them if benching Orton breaks their crystal ****s, maybe they should have gotten their sh#t wired tight in the first place instead of playing like a bunch of spineless twats. They're insulted. Christ, they're an embarassment. They should be flat ashamed of themselves. Insulted? Not so much.

McDman
10-31-2010, 06:59 PM
Wow. This thread has fail written all over it. Sorry, but I've never read a more thoroughly incorrect post from start to finish.

Orton would probably be undefeated this year if he had that early season 2006 defense. Plummer hung them out to dry left and right and they didn't allow a single TD for over a month. They were statistically among the best defenses in history over the first 8 weeks or so of that season.

The team loves Orton at least as much as Plummer's teams loved him. Kupesdad has confirmed and posted as much several times here. Care to doubt that?

I too believe the team loves Orton, the guy is an effin warrior.

RaiderH8r
10-31-2010, 07:02 PM
I too believe the team loves Orton, the guy is an effin warrior.

I'm sure they love their grandmothers too but I wouldn't want them as QBs for my NFL team...course a grandma probably has better mobility in the pocket than Orton.

TheReverend
10-31-2010, 07:05 PM
Dude, people have to make it about the QB. You know that.

Takes too much thought to really dissect things properly.

Didn't he commit two turnovers in that quarter to give the opposing offense the ball twice with a short field?

That's just from memory so not sure if those were both in the same quarter, but... yeah...

BroncoBuff
10-31-2010, 07:06 PM
Drek's gonna love this.

Kid A
10-31-2010, 07:09 PM
In regards to the original post, I can buy him being pissed about the Tebow pick, but why would be give a **** about trading for Quinn? Everyone in the league knew we were going to pick up a new backup QB this off-season after the Chris Simms disaster. I call bull on Orton's pulse even raising at the news Brady Quinn was coming to town.

Beantown Bronco
10-31-2010, 07:09 PM
Didn't he commit two turnovers in that quarter to give the opposing offense the ball twice with a short field?

That's just from memory so not sure if those were both in the same quarter, but... yeah...

Just one. The fumble was on the short field and resulted in a TD.

The pick was on the other side of the field and was at the end of the game, resulting in a kneel down....no points obviously.

Archer81
10-31-2010, 07:10 PM
Kind of odd that this would come out now when Denver is 2-6. Its not like Tebow and Quinn just joined the team.

Damn rabble rowsers.
:Broncos:

McDman
10-31-2010, 07:10 PM
I'm sure they love their grandmothers too but I wouldn't want them as QBs for my NFL team...course a grandma probably has better mobility in the pocket than Orton.

Come on now, the guy is not mobile but he has evaded pass rushers fairly well and can step up into the pocket when he needs to. Today the interior line collapsed so often there was no way he could get away every time.

KipCorrington25
10-31-2010, 07:10 PM
I was seething when we traded for Orton...

TheReverend
10-31-2010, 07:13 PM
Just one. The fumble was on the short field and resulted in a TD.

The pick was on the other side of the field and was at the end of the game, resulting in a kneel down....no points obviously.

Okay ya, same quarter but only one assisted the other team... greatly.

Dedhed
10-31-2010, 07:14 PM
Let's all put our heads together and see if we can figure out how this is relevant in week 8.

I vote for pointless drama.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-31-2010, 07:15 PM
I was seething when we traded for Orton...

Yes, but you're a dumb ****. So there's that.

Drek
10-31-2010, 07:18 PM
Clough just mentioned on the radio that Orton was apparently seething when the Broncos traded for Quinn, and absolutely livid when they drafted Tebow... Hard to say how true it is, because of what a professional Orton is - and this was Sandy's point: That Orton deserves credit for how he's handled himself this year.

Just thought it was interesting...

That's great for Kyle. Nice to know he has the fire burning. But if he doesn't want the team looking to replace him he needs to show some ability to lock games up.

At this point Orton hasn't shown me anything more than Cutler. Both can put up numbers but neither plays their best in the 4th.

Football has some great symmetry to it. 4 quarters in a game, 4 quarters of 4 games each in a season. Its all tied into one another. More often than not a team that knows how to finish in the 4th quarter of a game will know how to finish in the 4th quarter of the season down the playoff stretch. If you want to win in the NFL you've got to be playing your best football at the end of the year, not the beginning.

I said on here near the tail end of the '08 season that I had lost faith in Cutler because he didn't step his game up in the 4th quarter of the season. When QBs who win playoff games are hitting their peak Cutler is falling apart. Orton is similar in that regard, but instead of caving on the 4th quarter of the season he caves in the 4th quarter of most games. The net effect is the same, your team won't win important games.

Much like Cutler, Orton has yet to prove to me that he can win in the critical moments of a game. He has his chance right now, but he can't blame anyone but himself for the FO making sure another option is waiting if and when he fails to capitalize.

Drek's gonna love this.

What about it will I love?

BroncosSR
10-31-2010, 07:28 PM
Just one. The fumble was on the short field and resulted in a TD.

The pick was on the other side of the field and was at the end of the game, resulting in a kneel down....no points obviously.

The INT was a game-tying drive killer...

Beantown Bronco
10-31-2010, 07:31 PM
The INT was a game-tying drive killer...

Different argument. Rev was specifically talking about TOs that directly resulted in a short field and points the other way. That's what I was responding to.

broncosteven
10-31-2010, 08:06 PM
That's great for Kyle. Nice to know he has the fire burning. But if he doesn't want the team looking to replace him he needs to show some ability to lock games up.

At this point Orton hasn't shown me anything more than Cutler. Both can put up numbers but neither plays their best in the 4th.

Football has some great symmetry to it. 4 quarters in a game, 4 quarters of 4 games each in a season. Its all tied into one another. More often than not a team that knows how to finish in the 4th quarter of a game will know how to finish in the 4th quarter of the season down the playoff stretch. If you want to win in the NFL you've got to be playing your best football at the end of the year, not the beginning.

I said on here near the tail end of the '08 season that I had lost faith in Cutler because he didn't step his game up in the 4th quarter of the season. When QBs who win playoff games are hitting their peak Cutler is falling apart. Orton is similar in that regard, but instead of caving on the 4th quarter of the season he caves in the 4th quarter of most games. The net effect is the same, your team won't win important games.
Much like Cutler, Orton has yet to prove to me that he can win in the critical moments of a game. He has his chance right now, but he can't blame anyone but himself for the FO making sure another option is waiting if and when he fails to capitalize.



What about it will I love?

WOW Your posts tonight are spot on.

RaiderH8r
10-31-2010, 08:14 PM
In regards to the original post, I can buy him being pissed about the Tebow pick, but why would be give a **** about trading for Quinn? Everyone in the league knew we were going to pick up a new backup QB this off-season after the Chris Simms disaster. I call bull on Orton's pulse even raising at the news Brady Quinn was coming to town.

Maybe he was pissed we shipped our best RB for that fool. :wiggle:

RaiderH8r
10-31-2010, 08:18 PM
Come on now, the guy is not mobile but he has evaded pass rushers fairly well and can step up into the pocket when he needs to. Today the interior line collapsed so often there was no way he could get away every time.

First, it was a great opportunity to take a jab at Orton's Concrete Feet.

Second, a little mobility isn't what our QB needs. The ability to flat out run for his damn life is what he needs. An athletic QB who can make plays while running for his damn life would also help. Our only running game to speak of is when our QB, concrete feet and all, plods his way 4 yds down field before getting run down from behind by some guy who measures his forty time with a calendar.

Seriously, Orton moves like old people screw.

Popps
10-31-2010, 08:23 PM
Orton is similar in that regard, but instead of caving on the 4th quarter of the season he caves in the 4th quarter of most games.

Yea, the only problem with this analysis is... we're only basing that on games where we've blown a lead.

I think you're right, to a point. Orton needs to learn to be a "comeback" QB. But, John Elway aside, I've just never thought the best way to a championship was to get down in games and expect a QB to come save you.

I'm trying to think of a game where we had a lead... and Orton blew that lead, late.

Conversely, I can think of many games where Orton gave us a lead, and we blew it, anyway.

He doesn't have the killer closing ability of a Rivers or Roethlisberger. But, look how much he improved from last season. There's nothing to say he can't improve this part of his game.

He ****ed up badly today not protecting that ball, though. That's a mistake that can't be forgiven in that situation. He's GOT to know better.

But, he's a bright guy. Hopefully he'll input all of this... learn from it and make more strides. Closing out games is something that I think comes naturally for some QBs, and other guys may need to gain more confidence in those situations to do so.

Either way, we're in great shape at the QB position, imo. Many, many other areas to address first.

ColoradoDarin
10-31-2010, 08:24 PM
Sandy knows less about football than my 2 year old son. At least he can say "go Broncos!" which also puts him above about a third of the board here....

Goobzilla
10-31-2010, 08:32 PM
Put down that coffee Kyle! Coffee is for closers!

http://theassociation.blogs.com/the_association/baldwin_glengarry_glen_ross-1.jpg

Popps
10-31-2010, 08:32 PM
Seriously, Orton moves like old people screw.

No question, but Kurt Warner couldn't run to save his life, and might have even been LESS elusive in the pocket.

I said last year I thought that Orton was a poor man's Kurt Warner, and that still looks to be the case.

But, Kurt Warner had a Hall of Fame caliber running back, a top flight O-line, two Pro Bowl WRs, and a very underrated defense helping keep his team in games. (See the NFCCG where the offense only scored something like 17 points.)

Point is, Orton isn't Warner... but he's showing flashes of being special. The guy needs to learn to close out games, but he also needs a functioning team around him.

We can't just keep throwing away QBs every couple of years, expecting the next one to be John Elway. Isn't going to happen. Plus, Elway needed all of those tools to finally win a SB, himself.

BroncoBuff
10-31-2010, 08:35 PM
What about it will I love?

Well, you've been very bullish on Kyle all along, as much as anybody here. Good call. Now this makes him seem like a real warrior, a leader.

I had always suspected the reason Lovie kept benching him was maybe a lack of fire, lax leadership skills.. Now we see that's not a problem.

Taco John
10-31-2010, 08:37 PM
All I know is that if what Sandy says is true - and I think it's absolutely believable - I've got a lot of respect for Orton and the way he's handled himself. We've seen first hand the way some people react to this kind of pressure, and not only has Orton handled himself professionally, but he's answered the call by playing solid, smart football.

Whatever happens, I consider Kyle a true Bronco and am proud to have him on the team.

Dr. Broncenstein
10-31-2010, 08:38 PM
Was he seething when he signed his multi-million dollar extension?

Hulamau
10-31-2010, 08:45 PM
Who gives a ****.

There are bigger issues right now.

Like the fact our defense has given up 3 TDs in a single quarter in CONSECUTIVE games against some of the worst ****ing offenses ever tossed onto a field.

Aint that the truth Alec! Orton is NOT the problem here. Yes he's slow as mud and absolutely MUST learn to hold on to the damn ball when 'scrambling' ... if thats what you call it :) .. But its far more on these fill-ins on D (and the Oline) that have killed us the last few weeks ... and today that included two starters in Goodie and Dawk that really should have been left back in Denver to nurse their injures another two weeks.. if only we had any servicable back-ups left!?!

Plus having Moss as a scrub on ST really screwed the pooch on a beautiful come back story in the making when he yanked away Eddies awesome TD and locked the game for SF. I so wish we only had 10 men on that play and Moss was still looking for his freaking helmet on the bench!

I have little doubt we would have gotten 2 and tied it for OT with a Tebow package and likely with him play-action throwing or even Jump passing for the two points! With that momentum I really like our chance to win in OT.

Thanks MORON Moss!

Injury depletion to this degree = scrub level mistakes and easy TDs by the opposition.

RaiderH8r
10-31-2010, 08:46 PM
No question, but Kurt Warner couldn't run to save his life, and might have even been LESS elusive in the pocket.

I said last year I thought that Orton was a poor man's Kurt Warner, and that still looks to be the case.

But, Kurt Warner had a Hall of Fame caliber running back, a top flight O-line, two Pro Bowl WRs, and a very underrated defense helping keep his team in games. (See the NFCCG where the offense only scored something like 17 points.)

Point is, Orton isn't Warner... but he's showing flashes of being special. The guy needs to learn to close out games, but he also needs a functioning team around him.

We can't just keep throwing away QBs every couple of years, expecting the next one to be John Elway. Isn't going to happen. Plus, Elway needed all of those tools to finally win a SB, himself.

So if we can lock up about 19 Pro Bowl caliber players to lift Orton's game we can get this thing locked up? Christ, put enough all pro talent on the field and Trent Dilfer can win a SB. I'm suggesting we swap out the guy who ain't getting it done. Maybe we can trade him and his huge statistics to a team with the other players in place because, unless you think Kyle is going to be putting up these numbers into his 40s we should sell while Orton's stock is high.

broncosteven
10-31-2010, 08:48 PM
No question, but Kurt Warner couldn't run to save his life, and might have even been LESS elusive in the pocket.

I said last year I thought that Orton was a poor man's Kurt Warner, and that still looks to be the case.

But, Kurt Warner had a Hall of Fame caliber running back, a top flight O-line, two Pro Bowl WRs, and a very underrated defense helping keep his team in games. (See the NFCCG where the offense only scored something like 17 points.)

Point is, Orton isn't Warner... but he's showing flashes of being special. The guy needs to learn to close out games, but he also needs a functioning team around him.

We can't just keep throwing away QBs every couple of years, expecting the next one to be John Elway. Isn't going to happen. Plus, Elway needed all of those tools to finally win a SB, himself.

Just think how bad Orton would be without LLoyd.

Hell without bombs to Lloyd in the 2nd half of a lot of games we could be in a lot worse shape, which is hard to conceive at 2-6

BroncoBuff
10-31-2010, 08:50 PM
Sandy Clough is about as reliable as my bowel movements. He's there every day, and he usually stinks.

What a ****ing joke. Nice thread, Taco.

I was Sandy's producer at KOA for about 18 months in the mid-80s, and I promise you those comments are not accurate.

Sandy is a no-nonsense, meticulous reporter ... very well-informed and dedicated to his work. He possesses a comprehensive understanding of all team sports, and it shows on the air ... I'm surprised you think otherwise.

You can dislike his personality, there's plenty of folks who do ... but he is a consummate professional.

Bronco Yoda
10-31-2010, 08:52 PM
Clough just mentioned on the radio that Orton was apparently seething when the Broncos traded for Quinn, and absolutely livid when they drafted Tebow... Hard to say how true it is, because of what a professional Orton is - and this was Sandy's point: That Orton deserves credit for how he's handled himself this year.

Just thought it was interesting...


Thanks for posting this TJ. This is the first I had really heard of a reaction from Orton. I kind of thought he'd feel this way, but he's kept it pretty buttoned up.

RhymesayersDU
10-31-2010, 08:52 PM
I was Sandy's producer at KOA for about 18 months in the mid-80s, and I promise you those comments are not accurate.

Sandy is a no-nonsense, meticulous reporter ... very well-informed and dedicated to his work. He possesses a comprehensive understanding of all team sports, an and quite honestly I think it shows on the air ... I'm surprised you think otherwise.

You can dislike his personality, there's plenty of folks who agree with that ... but he is a consummate professional.

Not sure why you're surprised; besides the Broncos, this entire board lives to bash all things media. Every media guy or gal out there is a hack. ESPN sucks, etc.

hambone13
10-31-2010, 08:59 PM
Sandy Clough is about as reliable as my bowel movements. He's there every day, and he usually stinks.

What a ****ing joke. Nice thread, Taco.

Sandy Clough is a Denver/CO sports stats Ninja. He frequently makes statements that are admittedly derived from from a perspective that is speculation or circumstantial evidence but he is rarely wrong. He doesn't put himself out there as knowing all, but he usually nails the point in the long run. I don't particularly care for his personality or arrogance but his knowledge and speculation are tough to contest. I'd challenge you for more than a couple of examples that are provable.

Hulamau
10-31-2010, 09:00 PM
All I know is that if what Sandy says is true - and I think it's absolutely believable - I've got a lot of respect for Orton and the way he's handled himself. We've seen first hand the way some people react to this kind of pressure, and not only has Orton handled himself professionally, but he's answered the call by playing solid, smart football.

Whatever happens, I consider Kyle a true Bronco and am proud to have him on the team.

Ditto!

Popps
10-31-2010, 09:16 PM
Just think how bad Orton would be without LLoyd.

Yea, I heard that last year when Marshall was out. Then, Orton used Gaffney effectively.

Then I heard it again going into this season. Now Orton is using Lloyd effectively.

Beyond that, you're smart enough to know that's not a real argument. I mean, by those terms... our defense did great today, as long as you take away all of the times when they didn't.


Hell without bombs to Lloyd in the 2nd half of a lot of games we could be in a lot worse shape, which is hard to conceive at 2-6

Wait, last year it was too much dink and dunk, now he's spreading the ball all over the field, and now THAT's a bad thing?

Once again, you can't "take away" parts of statistics to make your argument.

hambone13
10-31-2010, 09:16 PM
I was Sandy's producer at KOA for about 18 months in the mid-80s, and I promise you those comments are not accurate.

Sandy is a no-nonsense, meticulous reporter ... very well-informed and dedicated to his work. He possesses a comprehensive understanding of all team sports, and it shows on the air ... I'm surprised you think otherwise.

You can dislike his personality, there's plenty of folks who do ... but he is a consummate professional.

I just posted something about this. It's nice to know that there is a person here to corroborate my feelings about him. Your statements are about as good as it gets in validating what I've always observed about him. I have a lot of respect for him. As I've said, the way he handles some fans and his arrogance (seemingly justified) is something special at times. However, I've exchanged multiple emails with him (he always gets back to you if you have a logical statement, question or complaint) and he ALWAYS gets back to you even if he doesn't care to comment. His professionalism is immense. He didn't win the best broadcaster in CO (in all categories including sports) for no reason. I think Sandy is in fact, the best local broadcaster and doesn't really have any peers. I've felt that way for years.

Popps
10-31-2010, 09:17 PM
All I know is that if what Sandy says is true - and I think it's absolutely believable - I've got a lot of respect for Orton and the way he's handled himself. We've seen first hand the way some people react to this kind of pressure, and not only has Orton handled himself professionally, but he's answered the call by playing solid, smart football.

Whatever happens, I consider Kyle a true Bronco and am proud to have him on the team.

Amen.

I love Tim Tebow... but we're extremely lucky to have Orton.

ScottXray
10-31-2010, 09:18 PM
Ditto!

+1

I DO question the timing of the release of this info though.

Seems like if it was really true it would have come out before now...

Releasing it at this point is not only questionable, it seems to be meant to stir the shyt.

orangemonkey
10-31-2010, 09:25 PM
Yea, I heard that last year when Marshall was out. Then, Orton used Gaffney effectively.

Then I heard it again going into this season. Now Orton is using Lloyd effectively.

Beyond that, you're smart enough to know that's not a real argument. I mean, by those terms... our defense did great today, as long as you take away all of the times when they didn't.



Wait, last year it was too much dink and dunk, now he's spreading the ball all over the field, and now THAT's a bad thing?

Once again, you can't "take away" parts of statistics to make your argument.

This is stupid but, coming from you, par for the course. Equalizing Marshall (a true #1) to Lloyd by comparing year over year yards is so funny. Do you even understand the effect a true #1 like Marshall has on the overall opposing defenses' game plan? Seriously, the mismatches, the double teams, the fits? Give me a break kid, go take a look at what the absence of Vincent Jackson has done to the Chargers. I can't believe anybody reads this type of bull**** and agrees with it.

spdirty
10-31-2010, 09:31 PM
My opinion of Orton is 180 degrees since his first drive of the preseason. He is not anywhere close to being the problem, and I think starting quarterback is the last thing we have to worry about with this team right now.

Popps
10-31-2010, 09:31 PM
So if we can lock up about 19 Pro Bowl caliber players to lift Orton's game we can get this thing locked up? Christ, put enough all pro talent on the field and Trent Dilfer can win a SB. .

Quite the contrary... Orton appears to be carrying this offense right now.

God forbid he had any help, huh? You know, a running game... occasional blocking.

You're right, let's click our heels and hope for John Elway to return. That'll happen.

Lev Vyvanse
10-31-2010, 09:33 PM
All I know is that if what Sandy says is true - and I think it's absolutely believable - I've got a lot of respect for Orton and the way he's handled himself. We've seen first hand the way some people react to this kind of pressure, and not only has Orton handled himself professionally, but he's answered the call by playing solid, smart football.

Whatever happens, I consider Kyle a true Bronco and am proud to have him on the team.

So... is this the official Taco jinx? Or can I still start Orton next week in FF?

Popps
10-31-2010, 09:36 PM
Equalizing Marshall (a true #1) to Lloyd by

Wow, maybe get someone to help you at home there, sport. Any good readers in the house?

Never said Lloyd was a "true number one."

I just said that Orton managed to do just fine throwing the ball without woman-beater.

But, yea... Marshall has made a world of difference in Miami so far....

200 less yards than Lloyd and he's scored a whopping 1 TD on the season.



Keep up the good posts, man.

RaiderH8r
10-31-2010, 10:05 PM
Quite the contrary... Orton appears to be carrying this offense right now.

God forbid he had any help, huh? You know, a running game... occasional blocking.

You're right, let's click our heels and hope for John Elway to return. That'll happen.

I missed the part of the season where Denver was outscoring other teams but, like I said, I'll get Orton into my FFB league's Pro Bowl. He's a difference maker in FFB, in fact, I'm pretty sure he has more than 4 wins already this season, let alone over the last 17.

Hulamau
10-31-2010, 10:18 PM
Well duh. We've done nothing to improve our d-line. We have absolutely no pressure from our NT. But that's a different thread.

Thats the ONLY thread .. that and the crap run blocking by the Oline! Fix those two and were first in the division hands down. will take a near magic slight of hand to get it all done by next year.

Popps
10-31-2010, 11:29 PM
I missed the part of the season where Denver was outscoring other teams .

Oh, we're changing the conversation?

I thought we were talking about Orton.

Now you want to talk "team?"

But, I suggested we put a "team" together, and you called that idea ridiculous.

Tell you what... regroup, figure out what you mean... and try again later.

strafen
10-31-2010, 11:34 PM
Quite the contrary... Orton appears to be carrying this offense right now.

God forbid he had any help, huh? You know, a running game... occasional blocking.

You're right, let's click our heels and hope for John Elway to return. That'll happen.If it wasn't for Brandon Lloyd bailing his ass out, Orton would be on the bench.
How many times have we seen Lloyd making acrobatic catches that's made Orton's numbers look good?

How many time have we seen Orton this season seal the loss for us by closing the game out with an INT?

strafen
10-31-2010, 11:37 PM
So... is this the official Taco jinx? Or can I still start Orton next week in FF?Orton's numbers are looking good.
He is a good fantasy pick.
By all means keep him, as long as you don't lose points for game he loses after those awesome stats, you'll be ok...

24champ
10-31-2010, 11:41 PM
Last week it was a revolt against Josh McDaniels and this week it is Orton was "seething" over the FO picking Quinn/Tebow.

Can't wait for next weeks gossip thread, Taco.

Taco John
10-31-2010, 11:50 PM
Last week it was a revolt against Josh McDaniels and this week it is Orton was "seething" over the FO picking Quinn/Tebow.

Can't wait for next weeks gossip thread, Taco.


I didn't start the thread about players giving up on Josh McDaniels. You got the wrong guy.

strafen
10-31-2010, 11:54 PM
Last week it was a revolt against Josh McDaniels and this week it is Orton was "seething" over the FO picking Quinn/Tebow.

Can't wait for next weeks gossip thread, Taco.Does it matter?

Miss I.
11-01-2010, 12:06 AM
well, the interception and fumble sucked no doubt about it. We could have and should have won that game yesterday. The two very stupid penalties that took back two touchdowns didn't help us either. Not only lost points, but killed our momentum. It was painful to watch us lose a game we were winning, all while being surrounded by asshat weirdos who kept waving the souvenier 49er flags even though they weren't really 49er fans. Aaagh...Also, I got hugged by a bunch of Raider fans yesterday during the tailgate, I think I might need to be boiled to get clean again. Worst Halloween ever (well except Halloween 2 by Rob Zombie, that was pretty bad).

hambone13
11-01-2010, 12:11 AM
Amen.

I love Tim Tebow... but we're extremely lucky to have Orton.

I feel fortunate as well. I'm impressed with Orton's development and it's obvious that he's very coachable, which is invaluable. However, I don't think anyone is fooled by our 1 dimensional offense. His numbers are flat out deceptive given how teams are more than likely game planning against us.

"They're almost always going to pass but if they try and rush, they can't, so compensate by allowing a lot of pass yardage in between the 20's. They can't score in the red zone. Wear 'em out."

If you have this model at the beginning of your game plan because it's flat out true, you don't have much of a strategic challenge. Play whatever rendition of "bend but don't break" defense you need to, to not beat yourself for 3 quarters, then let the Broncos lose in the 4th by themselves.

strafen
11-01-2010, 12:22 AM
Why wouldn't Orton be mad? Shouldn't he be mad? Isn't that a positive thing?

Man, I used to roll my eyes at all the garbage about Orton "never getting respect" or whatever, but it's starting to ring true right about now. He has absolutely maxed his ability this year, and there's no one else on our team that can come close to saying that. To bench him would be beyond stupid. It would be catastrophically idiotic. It would be an insult to every player on the team. To compare Orton of '10 to Jake Plummer of '06 is <i>criminal</i>, and if you put this year's Orton on the '05 Broncos we win the super bowl. I can't believe I am saying that--really, I can't--but it's the complete truth.

Sit down, moron!
Your credibility is forever gone as far as I'm concern.
Kule Orton sucks. Get that in your head at once, he sucks ass!

Cito Pelon
11-01-2010, 02:31 AM
Quite the contrary... Orton appears to be carrying this offense right now.

God forbid he had any help, huh? You know, a running game... occasional blocking.

You're right, let's click our heels and hope for John Elway to return. That'll happen.

No kidding, he's doing a great job. Not only is he passing well, the play-action is setting up the passing game. D's are biting on the play-action all the time, selling out to stop the running game. When the running game clicks this will be a dynamite O.

Drek
11-01-2010, 04:21 AM
Yea, the only problem with this analysis is... we're only basing that on games where we've blown a lead.

I think you're right, to a point. Orton needs to learn to be a "comeback" QB. But, John Elway aside, I've just never thought the best way to a championship was to get down in games and expect a QB to come save you.

I'm trying to think of a game where we had a lead... and Orton blew that lead, late.

Conversely, I can think of many games where Orton gave us a lead, and we blew it, anyway.

He doesn't have the killer closing ability of a Rivers or Roethlisberger. But, look how much he improved from last season. There's nothing to say he can't improve this part of his game.

He ****ed up badly today not protecting that ball, though. That's a mistake that can't be forgiven in that situation. He's GOT to know better.

But, he's a bright guy. Hopefully he'll input all of this... learn from it and make more strides. Closing out games is something that I think comes naturally for some QBs, and other guys may need to gain more confidence in those situations to do so.

Either way, we're in great shape at the QB position, imo. Many, many other areas to address first.

I wouldn't lump Rivers in that category either myself. He's a step better than Kyle and Jay since he steps it up down the stretch of the season, but you can kill in Vegas if you bet on him ****ting his pants come playoffs.

Rapistburger is a good example of what I'm talking about though. I've never seen someone have such ****ty games only to turn it on in the 4th Q. and get the crucial go ahead TD. I hate the ****er but he has the number one skill you want out of a franchise QB.

Well, you've been very bullish on Kyle all along, as much as anybody here. Good call. Now this makes him seem like a real warrior, a leader.

I had always suspected the reason Lovie kept benching him was maybe a lack of fire, lax leadership skills.. Now we see that's not a problem.

I don't know, I'd say I was pretty bearish on him this off-season when more than a few "Kyle Orton is going to the Pro Bowl!" threads were popping up.

I said heading into the '09 season that people were grossly underestimating Orton and he proved that to be true. I said going into this season that I expected a step forward in his play, but only a marginal step not a step into the elite class of QBs.

You don't suddenly learn killer instinct as a QB. Some guys can't show it off early for various reasons (too inexperienced/in over their head or on a bad team) but if you've got it there will be glimpses of it.

I think if Cutler actually gave a **** he could possibly have that ability, but he just doesn't care enough. He likes football but he loves being an "NFL Franchise QB". He does all the right things from a participation standpoint because he wants the media love franchise QBs get, but in every game unless he's lighting it up he seems completely disinterested.

Orton meanwhile has had more than enough opportunity in Chicago with a defense that always kept things close and here in Denver in some close losses last year and now stretching into this year. He hasn't shown the ability to turn his play up and take the win when its within his grasp.

This is why I've said he can be a top 10 QB, but not a top 5 QB. And unless you pair a great defense and running game together top 10 QBs don't win Super Bowls, top 5 QBs do.

If we stick with Orton long term and build a solid D and OL around him, Moreno, and the WRs he'll be good enough to get us into the playoffs with consistency, and not quite good enough to ever make a real run with it. This is why Tim Tebow is here.

Triplelefthook
11-01-2010, 06:41 AM
Clough just mentioned on the radio that Orton was apparently seething when the Broncos traded for Quinn, and absolutely livid when they drafted Tebow... Hard to say how true it is, because of what a professional Orton is - and this was Sandy's point: That Orton deserves credit for how he's handled himself this year.

Just thought it was interesting...

I know this for a fact - I was at the bowling alley in Lone Tree the night of the draft. A huge party of the Broncos was there as well, including Orton... and the announcer would announce all the Bronco players scores (Orton's score after the frist game was 263, btw... very impressive) and then after the Tebow pick, Orton's score was never announced again and I was told he left the bowling alley (can't be sure on that, but all the other Bronco players scores were announced and Orton was mysteriously left out from that point on).

Captain 'Dre
11-01-2010, 06:56 AM
This doesn't make sense. Cutler never quit.

Correct. He just continued to sling more red zone INTs. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/bosefus69/shrug.gif

Rabb
11-01-2010, 07:21 AM
I know this for a fact - I was at the bowling alley in Lone Tree the night of the draft. A huge party of the Broncos was there as well, including Orton... and the announcer would announce all the Bronco players scores (Orton's score after the frist game was 263, btw... very impressive) and then after the Tebow pick, Orton's score was never announced again and I was told he left the bowling alley (can't be sure on that, but all the other Bronco players scores were announced and Orton was mysteriously left out from that point on).

the light rail is sooooo 2009

bendog
11-01-2010, 07:31 AM
popps, wipe off your chin. McDaniels gave up on Cutler. Trying to trade him and bring in Slingling Sammy Cassel. It's over though.

Back to rational discourse and TJ's pt. I don't see why Orton would be pissed about Quinn. Simms was awful as a backup. It's an open competition for every position every summer, but I'd think Orton shoud be confident that Quinn's a backup. With Tebow ... who knows. McDaniel's ego requires that he "make" a probowl qb. That's why he wanted Cassel. He "made" the qb. Orton's upside is what we see. Tebow potentially can make teams defend more of the field by being able to not just throw deeper buy be able to roll out and throw back across the field. If I'm Orton and have no oline, I'd prolly be pissed too to see the team trade up into the first. Denver got raped on the quinn trade too. THAT pisses me off. And for homers to seemingly not care that a too young head coach goes through draft picks like Faver on a cell phone .....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4995081

baja
11-01-2010, 07:32 AM
I know this for a fact - I was at the bowling alley in Lone Tree the night of the draft. A huge party of the Broncos was there as well, including Orton... and the announcer would announce all the Bronco players scores (Orton's score after the frist game was 263, btw... very impressive) and then after the Tebow pick, Orton's score was never announced again and I was told he left the bowling alley (can't be sure on that, but all the other Bronco players scores were announced and Orton was mysteriously left out from that point on).

Nice disclaimer you tossed in.

For you non bowlers 263 is an impossible score in bowling. It's like a prime number in bowling there is no scoring combination that will add up to 263.

Triplelefthook
11-01-2010, 07:40 AM
Nice disclaimer you tossed in.

For you non bowlers 263 is an impossible score in bowling. It's like a prime number in bowling there is no scoring combination that will add up to 263.

haha his score was 260+

Beantown Bronco
11-01-2010, 07:42 AM
Nice disclaimer you tossed in.

For you non bowlers 263 is an impossible score in bowling. It's like a prime number in bowling there is no scoring combination that will add up to 263.

Huh? According to this site, there are 2,264 ways you can score a 263.

http://www.balmoralsoftware.com/bowling/bowling.htm

baja
11-01-2010, 07:44 AM
Huh? According to this site, there are 2,264 ways you can score a 263.

http://www.balmoralsoftware.com/bowling/bowling.htm


Must you always spoil my fun? Geez! ;D

RaiderH8r
11-01-2010, 07:54 AM
Nice disclaimer you tossed in.

For you non bowlers 263 is an impossible score in bowling. It's like a prime number in bowling there is no scoring combination that will add up to 263.

I don't know what's dorkier his story about the score or this.;D

UPDATE: Clearly I take Baja's word for **** too easily. And I'm just not interested in bowling. Damn you KAHN!!!

Hamrob
11-01-2010, 07:59 AM
Can't blame Orton.

This team needed DL help the last two drafts, and it was there, but what do I know.

Keep drafting and trading for luxury!I certainly think that Orton shares in the blame as much as anyone. When the game has been on the line in the 4th QTR (3 games this year) Orton has thrown an Int, fumbled and thrown an Int. Who cares about the stats. The guy folds when he's needed most.

RaiderH8r
11-01-2010, 08:02 AM
Quite the contrary... Orton appears to be carrying this offense right now.

God forbid he had any help, huh? You know, a running game... occasional blocking.

You're right, let's click our heels and hope for John Elway to return. That'll happen.

I don't think Orton deserves to be benched but he just happens to be the QB of the present and presently we have our QBOTF in the wings and I think that we should pull off the band aid and get to the gettin. Especially considering our OL troubles (which lead to shotgun formation on seemingly every play which also plays to Tebow's strength) it helps to have a guy back there who can effectively run for his life instead of just plodding around as he runs for his life.

I can see the upside of holding out Tebow to increase Orton's trade value at the end of the year...I guess. He may not be the first 4 win QB to go to a Pro Bowl (my FFB league Pro Bowl not withstanding) but his performance will certainly have some teams (looking at you Shanny, Whisenhunt, etc) thinking this guy can get them competitive today. Maybe take some of the sting off of the Quinn trade.

Additionally, if next season is going to be a lockout keeping Tebow on the bench may have value in the sense that if he goes out there this year the experience is pretty much wasted over a lockout, but that's debatable. NFL experience is NFL experience and if the guy is going to play he's gonna need the experience one way or another.

bendog
11-01-2010, 08:22 AM
I believe Orton has 5million guaranteed next year, so he's not going anywhere because no team is going to trade for a guy with that contract with a lockout likely.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp10/news/story?id=5478172

Goobzilla
11-01-2010, 08:29 AM
I'm sure it's been said, but a guy who considers Brady Quinn a threat has some self confidence issues. I can understand being bent about drafting a QBOTF, but all you can do is go out and play your game. If they want the kid there's 31 other potential employers you can audition for right now on the field.

bendog
11-01-2010, 08:35 AM
Well, I'm no Orton fan, but anyone shold be able to see that this team just sucks talent wise. There's one good olineman and he's playing on one knee. McDaniels has traded a 2, 3, 5 and 6 plus an undisclosed pick for qb's who aren't starting. If I'm Orton I'm thinking either something is whacked or the front office isn't even trying.

Goobzilla
11-01-2010, 08:40 AM
At least Orton got to audition for his job, right or wrong the last guy got run off without ever throwing a pass.

Triplelefthook
11-01-2010, 08:51 AM
I don't know what's dorkier his story about the score or this.;D

UPDATE: Clearly I take Baja's word for **** too easily. And I'm just not interested in bowling. Damn you KAHN!!!

Well point is - teh Broncos were having a draft party at the bowling alley. Tebow was drafted in relatively shocking fashion, and then it is most likely that Orton left the party right after that.

thought being bronco fans most on the board would find the story interesting

RaiderH8r
11-01-2010, 09:11 AM
Well point is - teh Broncos were having a draft party at the bowling alley. Tebow was drafted in relatively shocking fashion, and then it is most likely that Orton left the party right after that.

thought being bronco fans most on the board would find the story interesting

And everybody knows a party ain't a party unless its a Neckbeard party cuz a Neckbeard party don't stop.

Triplelefthook
11-01-2010, 09:14 AM
And everybody knows a party ain't a party unless its a Neckbeard party cuz a Neckbeard party don't stop.

Tell you this much - their collective bowling score went down after his departure. if they were playing on teams against each other, Orton's team lost a valuable contributor on that fateful evening

Pendejo
11-01-2010, 10:04 AM
Well, I'm no Orton fan, but anyone shold be able to see that this team just sucks talent wise. There's one good olineman and he's playing on one knee. McDaniels has traded a 2, 3, 5 and 6 plus an undisclosed pick for qb's who aren't starting. If I'm Orton I'm thinking either something is whacked or the front office isn't even trying.

He also included Hillis as a throw-a-way.

briane
11-01-2010, 10:07 AM
we will hear all kinds of shiit from now to the end of the season.

Not going to be a fun year at all.

The news I want to hear: "Broncos in contract talks with Bill Cowher"

Beantown Bronco
11-01-2010, 10:38 AM
The news I want to hear: "Broncos in contract talks with Bill Cowher"

I'd rather hear "NFL owners and players come to senses....agree on new CBA and ensure that there will be a season in 2011."