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Quoydogs
10-31-2010, 02:25 PM
How the hell do you pass for 365 yards and manage to get 1 fricken td ?

I don't care how great his stats look, he is not winning games and needs to go.

Popps
10-31-2010, 02:27 PM
The real issue was not securing the ball on the scramble.

He had a brilliant game for 95% of it... and then pissed it away on one play.

The upside there is, that can be corrected. Should have been corrected after last week.
He's made tremendous progress, but you have to take care of the ball.

Wes Mantooth
10-31-2010, 02:28 PM
Champ and Dawkins give up a prayer. We have an idiot extra point kicker. We fade down the stretch stopping the run. We can't run the ball.

You should watch the game. There is a whole 3+ hours on why we lost.

Jesterhole
10-31-2010, 02:28 PM
Well, good think McDouche is getting Tebow ready by having him come in for his off-tackle runs on 2nd and 5 every game. Those plays display his genius for us all to enjoy.

Kid A
10-31-2010, 02:28 PM
How the hell do you pass for 365 yards and manage to get 1 fricken td ?

I don't care how great his stats look, he is not winning games and needs to go.

One pass got us to the 1 yd line. Another TD pass called back on a BS penalty.

If you want to say he's responsible for "not winning games" I'd point to the two 4th quarter turnovers. Lack of passing TDs, though, isn't a legit criticism IMO.

KevinJames
10-31-2010, 02:29 PM
Im starting to think Orton sucks, you can have all the yards in the world the only thing that matters is touchdowns and 1st downs

frerottenextelway
10-31-2010, 02:29 PM
Orton is clutch, I was surprised he didn't come through at the end.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-31-2010, 02:30 PM
I dont hate on Orton, think he's a functional QB, but truth is, this team needs a spark and something different. Tim, youre up.

Mr.Meanie
10-31-2010, 02:30 PM
How the hell do you pass for 365 yards and manage to get 1 fricken td ?

I don't care how great his stats look, he is not winning games and needs to go.

It happens when your TD's get negated by penalties, or when your recievers get dropped at the 1 yard line on long passes.

If you're looking at stats... his stats could have looked really impressive if Taylor Mays doesn't drag down Lloyd at the 1, or if Gaffney doesn't fall at the 1, or if the flea-flicker isn't negated with a BS call.

Look at the many, many mistakes the entire team made all over the field. So, so brutal

Garcia Bronco
10-31-2010, 02:30 PM
A

Drek
10-31-2010, 02:30 PM
How the hell do you pass for 365 yards and manage to get 1 fricken td ?

I don't care how great his stats look, he is not winning games and needs to go.

To be fair Tebow did vulture one from him. And Moreno's cut block took another one off the boards (and yardage with it).

But then I've said it all year and quite recently in Taco's "Play Tebow?" thread. Orton can be a top 10 QB but will almost definitely not be a top 5 QB. He can put up numbers and typically won't lose you a game, but he doesn't have the killer instinct you see from the top 5 QBs who will their teams to win games.

He gets to finish out 2010 because you need to let Tebow have a year of watching and learning before you rush him out there. Hopefully he puts up good numbers to end the year and we can trade him for good value.

Quoydogs
10-31-2010, 02:30 PM
The real issue was not securing the ball on the scramble.

He had a brilliant game for 95% of it... and then pissed it away on one play.

The upside there is, that can be corrected. Should have been corrected after last week.
He's made tremendous progress, but you have to take care of the ball.

He always has a great game and we are still 2-6 . He is at 2200 yards and has 11 td's That is like 200 yards per TD.

chanesaw
10-31-2010, 02:31 PM
Orton is not the problem.

Requiem
10-31-2010, 02:32 PM
Nobody should be exciting that Orton has amassed a good deal of his yards in garbage time when down by multiple scores or when the game didn't even matter for the defense.

Popps
10-31-2010, 02:34 PM
He always has a great game and we are still 2-6 . He is at 2200 yards and has 11 td's That is like 200 yards per TD.

This isn't fantasy football. I don't care if Kyle passes for them or Tebow runs them in. We just need TDs.

Again, if you want to accurately critique this game... at least do it right. Kyle made a critical error not securing that ball.

We were snake-bit all day long, but that one was just a pure mistake on Kyle's part.

Wes Mantooth
10-31-2010, 02:35 PM
Orton is not the problem.

Though he had a critical turnover, you are right on.

NASurfer
10-31-2010, 02:36 PM
I wonder how many people think Orton played great against Baltimore?

BlaK-Argentina
10-31-2010, 02:36 PM
The worst thing about firing McD would be the effect it would have on Tebow's development.

I love Orton, he's one of the few that's trying but he can't do it alone.

loborugger
10-31-2010, 02:40 PM
Though he had a critical turnover, you are right on.

This.

I think this team focused some much on the passing game, that they neglected the rest of the game.

orangemonkey
10-31-2010, 02:40 PM
Troy effin' Smith was the better QB today.

fontaine
10-31-2010, 02:41 PM
Orton played great considering he was nearly knocked unconscious, was sacked and harassed all day long and barely had any time to throw.

Not to mention a cowardly coaching job by McDaniels to abandon the run when the game was still close. We ran the ball what TWICE all 2nd half even when the game was close and it was OBVIOUS to anyone with a pulse that San Francisco was going all out to take down Orton?

Orton was running for his life every 3rd passing play so what does McDaniels do when the game is still close? Yeah, that's right go with a five man front and ask Orton to keep throwing the ball.

gyldenlove
10-31-2010, 02:42 PM
How the hell do you pass for 365 yards and manage to get 1 fricken td ?

I don't care how great his stats look, he is not winning games and needs to go.

It takes a special kind of red zone suckage, for more on this topic, see previous Broncos games.

✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡
10-31-2010, 02:43 PM
2,509 yards at the halfway point. On pace for 5,018 yards passing.

loborugger
10-31-2010, 02:45 PM
Troy effin' Smith was the better QB today.

If you only take into account the win/lose column, then yes, Troy Smith was the better QB today. Otherwise, its not even close.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-31-2010, 02:45 PM
Troy effin' Smith was the better QB today.

Well this is a stetch...and as said, i like Orton, i dont think hes a bad QB at all. But this team needs something different. Maybe a QB more mobile. Do we have one of those on the roster? Oh yeah, we do

TonyR
10-31-2010, 02:47 PM
Champ and Dawkins give up a prayer...

Ugh, that was awful. Huge play, one of a few that really killed us. Wtf were they doing there?

meangene
10-31-2010, 02:48 PM
I have been trying to put my finger on what it is with Orton. He is an accurate passer, generally makes good decisions, plays hurt, etc. I just don't think he brings that leadership mentality or physical style of play we need. I think Tebow could have much less stellar stats and more wins.

meangene
10-31-2010, 02:49 PM
Ugh, that was awful. Huge play, one of a few that really killed us. Wtf were they doing there?

Bad teams just find a way to lose and we are bad - one of the worst 5 in the league.

Rabb
10-31-2010, 02:51 PM
That catch between Champ and Dawk was awful but just like the Jets game...had we actually done something with the ball earlier in the game...it wouldn't have mattered

I'm just sick right now

Rabb
10-31-2010, 02:52 PM
Bad teams just find a way to lose and we are bad - one of the worst 5 in the league.

Yep

Buffalo plays with more heart at 0-7 than we have most of the year...let that sink in for a minute

The Joker
10-31-2010, 02:52 PM
Orton's not the problem per se, but the real issue is that the offense has no identity, nobody that defines and leads them.

Orton isn't the kind of guy who you can build your offense around. Put him on a team with a strong running game and defense, and he'll be a quality starter.

With the system we run, so much is on the QB.

I'm just just not sure Kyle is good enough, sadly. Another crappy day on 3rd down, and big numbers but very few points to show for them.

This is Tebow's team moving forward, for better or worse.

BlaK-Argentina
10-31-2010, 02:52 PM
Well this is a stetch...and as said, i like Orton, i dont think hes a bad QB at all. But this team needs something different. Maybe a QB more mobile. Do we have one of those on the roster? Oh yeah, we do

If you think mobility will make up for all the things he WON'T BE BETTER than Orton at.

BTW is Orton the ONLY player that knows how to read a blitz in this offense? I've seen him throw passes to a spot where his WR was supposed to be on numerous blitzes this year and the WR is never ready.

CEH
10-31-2010, 02:53 PM
Well, good think McDouche is getting Tebow ready by having him come in for his off-tackle runs on 2nd and 5 every game. Those plays display his genius for us all to enjoy.

This is very asute. McD lost me all together when he put Tebow in for his one yard dive play on 2nd and 5 after we just gained 10 on 1st and 15 to make it a reasonable 2nd an 5.

This play made zero sense . He deserves everything that happens to him when he calls these stupid play calls.

What a disaster. Orton may not be the problem but this team needs a future and Tebow might supply at least a glimpse

SonOfLe-loLang
10-31-2010, 02:54 PM
If you think mobility will make up for all the things he WON'T BE BETTER than Orton at.

BTW is Orton the ONLY player that knows how to read a blitz in this offense? I've seen him throw passes to a spot where his WR was supposed to be on numerous blitzes this year and the WR is never ready.

Im not saying he'll be better because of mobility, im more or less saying Orton isnt the future here, so what do we have to lose?

WolfpackGuy
10-31-2010, 02:54 PM
Orton doesn't scare anyone.

He's hit a few deep ones, but teams don't gameplan on shutting down Orton.

Crowding the line and jamming the receivers does the job most times.

In Orton's defense, he has an absolute **** for brains as a head coach.

BlaK-Argentina
10-31-2010, 02:59 PM
Im not saying he'll be better because of mobility, im more or less saying Orton isnt the future here, so what do we have to lose?

I'm completely on the fence on this one. I'll leave it to McD to figure it out.

The good news is, the team will most definitely support Tebow, unlike what happened with Cutler.

Cool Breeze
10-31-2010, 03:07 PM
To be fair Tebow did vulture one from him. And Moreno's cut block took another one off the boards (and yardage with it).

But then I've said it all year and quite recently in Taco's "Play Tebow?" thread. Orton can be a top 10 QB but will almost definitely not be a top 5 QB. He can put up numbers and typically won't lose you a game, but he doesn't have the killer instinct you see from the top 5 QBs who will their teams to win games.

He gets to finish out 2010 because you need to let Tebow have a year of watching and learning before you rush him out there. Hopefully he puts up good numbers to end the year and we can trade him for good value.

This - end thread

Chris
10-31-2010, 03:11 PM
Well this is a stetch...and as said, i like Orton, i dont think hes a bad QB at all. But this team needs something different. Maybe a QB more mobile. Do we have one of those on the roster? Oh yeah, we do

Watch ortons scrambles today. Watch the touch on his one pass out of the pocket. Not an issue.

Quoydogs
10-31-2010, 03:26 PM
While I will give it to you, he puts up great numbers and plays a smart game. He has NO BALLS ! It takes balls to win a game and until we get this, we will continue to lose.

There was a play today where he ran for it om 3rd and long and could have easily gotten the 1st down but choose to dive to the ground two yards shy because he wanted to avoid the hit. Punt ! is what we did.

Mountain Bronco
10-31-2010, 03:33 PM
Orton kept Denver in the game, and at the same time, helped lose the game. The two turnovers by Orton were inexcusable. Yards mean nothing for the team or Orton, winning games means everything and Orton and the team isn't winning games. But to be fair, none of the other QB's on our team could win with the other talent on this team either, so what are you going to do?

ro_50
10-31-2010, 03:41 PM
I like Orton but this team is 2-6 and in dead last in the AFC West.

What do they have to lose w/ playing Tebow after the bye?

People can say he's not ready and etc but this team is going nowhere, why not just play him.

He's going to play at some point and this team is not that good.

And I like Orton but how many times has he come up empty with the game on the line? Outside of the Titans game, has he come up w/ the big plays? No he hasn't.

He threw the pick in the Jags game, and today.

He's an ok qb but this team is not going anywhere, time to just play Tebow and get on with it.

GreatBronco16
10-31-2010, 03:53 PM
I don't know. I watched Orton play all game long. I'm still waiting for the rest of the team to show up and play today.

fontaine
10-31-2010, 03:57 PM
I don't know. I watched Orton play all game long. I'm still waiting for the rest of the team to show up and play today.


No kidding. Orton and Lloyd are the only ones who show up to play week in week out on Offense.

Rock Chalk
10-31-2010, 04:01 PM
I don't know. I watched Orton play all game long. I'm still waiting for the rest of the team to show up and play today.

This.

Where is the "****ing defense folded in the 4th quarter and gave up 21 points to Troy ****ing Smith" thread?

I dont want to hear about the offense put the defense in a bad spot. The god damn offense doesnt run the ****ing ball and its ALL on Orton.

Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Tennessee, these teams dont get a **** load of production from their offense normally yet their defense doesnt ****ing fold in the 4th quarter. Why the **** does ours?

Im so ****ing tired of this same ****. Different coach? Same ****ing result. A **** defense in the 4th quarter and 3rd downs. Make a god damn play. Why does our defense get a pass for not creating a turnover? SF's offense did dick all day but their defense came up BIG in the 4th quarter. Where the **** was ours?

Rascal
10-31-2010, 04:01 PM
Orton is a solid QB but he won't win or lose us games. He isn't a good enough QB to lead this POS team to victory.

bpc
10-31-2010, 04:03 PM
I'm not going to rake Orton over the coals. We all knew was we were getting with him and to be honest, he's been better than advertised coming in. His problem is he's limited physically. The space that his football mind allows him to read from the 20 to the 20 doesn't work so well in the red zone when that space closes up and he has to power some throws in. He just doesn't have that type of mustard.

Orton could win a championship in the right setup but this is not it. If nothing else, this system is horrible for him because the defense is constantly on edge expecting the pass. If he was in a Baltimore situation or a Minnesota situation, I think we'd see more redzone touchdowns from him because teams would have to actually play the run. Again, as with all posts and threads, this is the fault of Josh McDaniels. This unbalanced team that he has built is making it harder for guys like Orton.

McD is a piece of trash. Orton, not so much.

Rock Chalk
10-31-2010, 04:03 PM
Orton is a solid QB but he won't win or lose us games. He isn't a good enough QB to lead this POS team to victory.

Pretty hard when your defense gives up 3 TD quarters in consecutive games.

Rock Chalk
10-31-2010, 04:05 PM
I like Orton but this team is 2-6 and in dead last in the AFC West.

What do they have to lose w/ playing Tebow after the bye?

People can say he's not ready and etc but this team is going nowhere, why not just play him.

He's going to play at some point and this team is not that good.

And I like Orton but how many times has he come up empty with the game on the line? Outside of the Titans game, has he come up w/ the big plays? No he hasn't.

He threw the pick in the Jags game, and today.

He's an ok qb but this team is not going anywhere, time to just play Tebow and get on with it.

LOL.

I cant wait for Tebow at this point.

You guys think this team is bad now.

Wait.

baja
10-31-2010, 04:08 PM
Orton is a teaser QB he gets your hopes up and when he has to make the play for the game he shiits the bed. He's the anti 'it'

he sure is a stud right up until we need a play for the win.

Quoydogs
10-31-2010, 04:10 PM
Orton is a teaser QB he gets your hopes up and when he has to make the play for the game he shiits the bed. He's the anti 'it'

he sure is a stud right up until we need a play for the win.

This.

Rohirrim
10-31-2010, 04:12 PM
Fundamentals: The basis of winning football is winning lines. Both our lines suck. It doesn't matter who you put back there.

baja
10-31-2010, 04:19 PM
Fundamentals: The basis of winning football is winning lines. Both our lines suck. It doesn't matter who you put back there.

we invested a lot in the O line for them to be this bad and regressing it's on the coaching big time. Maybe a football man for GM making personal decisions (player & coaches) and let josh just coach.

It is a very real possibility that Josh has too much on his plate.

I want to see if the players are still 100% behind josh.

Rigs11
10-31-2010, 04:19 PM
Orton is doing fine, you put any qb behind that line with our crap running game and we arent winning.you guys are asking way too much out of him. Go ahead throw tebow in. If your embarrassed now you ain't seen shet yet.what most people also don't mention is the penalties. Illegal shifts, false starts, offensive interference. Have some common sense

Garcia Bronco
10-31-2010, 04:21 PM
Rigs is right. Plus the QB AND WR. aren't the problem. It's those linemen and the discipline penalties.

Rohirrim
10-31-2010, 04:21 PM
we invested a lot in the O line for them to be this bad and regressing it's on the coaching big time. Maybe a football man for GM making personal decisions (player & coaches) and let josh just coach.

It is a very real possibility that Josh has too much on his plate.

I want to see if the players are still 100% behind josh.

Maybe it's Barone, maybe it's having two rookies at key positions. Olines never come together quickly. I remember the season that Nalen went out for the whole year. The entire line sucked. Same coach. Same everything else.

bpc
10-31-2010, 04:22 PM
we invested a lot in the O line for them to be this bad and regressing it's on the coaching big time. Maybe a football man for GM making personal decisions (player & coaches) and let josh just coach.

It is a very real possibility that Josh has too much on his plate.

I want to see if the players are still 100% behind josh.

Holy crap, the truth is starting to hit you! This is a truly exciting moment now as we don't always have to disagree on this.

(THE COACHING & GM ARE SUCKING FOR THE RECORD. 4-14 over last 18 games VERIFY this as truth.)

fontaine
10-31-2010, 04:39 PM
McD is a piece of trash. Orton, not so much.

I don't think McD is trash. I just realize that he simply doesn't know what it takes to put together a good ground game.

We were running the ball in the first half better than we have for a long time. The game was still close and it was clear that Orton was being targetted, sacked, and hurried.

Instead of keeping things balanced Josh ran the ball TWICE in all of the 2nd half. He put the entire game on Orton's shoulder while Orton was busy running for his life and nearly got knocked out of the game by Lawson.

It's like he has almost no patience, no understanding of how to win close football games by getting help on the ground.

He calls games as if we've got an elite defense that's going to shut the other team down and get the ball back.

fontaine
10-31-2010, 04:42 PM
Maybe it's Barone, maybe it's having two rookies at key positions. Olines never come together quickly. I remember the season that Nalen went out for the whole year. The entire line sucked. Same coach. Same everything else.

The 49ers started two rookies along their OL today on route to steamrolling over our front 7.

baja
10-31-2010, 04:42 PM
Holy crap, the truth is starting to hit you! This is a truly exciting moment now as we don't always have to disagree on this.

(THE COACHING & GM ARE SUCKING FOR THE RECORD. 4-14 over last 18 games VERIFY this as truth.)

Well I can't deny what I see on the field but I want to be quick to say I have not thrown in the towel on Josh. I will weigh in at the end of the season. Personally I think we would all be wise to do the same.

bpc
10-31-2010, 04:47 PM
Maybe in time Josh will be a good coach. There are certain things he said he believes (3-4, physical line play even though his teams have never had that) that I like.

He's not ready at this time. We gave him too much power, too quick. To his dis-credit, I think he made moves to gain even more control than he could handle when he got the Goodman's fired and how Intern Xanders installed as our pseudo GM/coffee grabber.

Rohirrim
10-31-2010, 04:47 PM
The 49ers started two rookies along their OL today on route to steamrolling over our front 7.

Their two rookies are both 1st round draft picks.

DenverBrit
10-31-2010, 04:55 PM
Fundamentals: The basis of winning football is winning lines. Both our lines suck. It doesn't matter who you put back there.

Exactly!

Hochstein, the rag doll, plus 2 rookies makes for a poor O line, no running game and a QB running for his life.

Starting one rookie is a liability, but two, a back up LG and a new blocking scheme is asking for trouble.

Poor planning and O line coaching.

The D line? Not much use since the SB runs and mostly treated like a stepchild since.

Rohirrim
10-31-2010, 04:59 PM
I think I just watched the last play Favre will ever play. He just got crushed by a Pats Dlineman and had to be carried to the bench.

BroncosSR
10-31-2010, 05:00 PM
Though he had a multiple critical turnover, you are right on.

Fixed.

BroncosSR
10-31-2010, 05:05 PM
Watch ortons scrambles today. Watch the touch on his one pass out of the pocket. Not an issue.

Ok, I did. He fumbled by not securing the ball while scrambling. And he dove untouched yards short of a first down. Not forgetting his panic-stricken play during a blitz when he just lays down.

Not all his fault, just not a good QB for this team.

meangene
10-31-2010, 05:33 PM
Yep

Buffalo plays with more heart at 0-7 than we have most of the year...let that sink in for a minute

I honestly wouldn't pick us to beat any other team in the league right now. Not saying we are less talented, but this team simply does not know how to win, does not play with confidence, and, really, does not excel in any phase of the game. Sad.

TheChamp24
10-31-2010, 05:35 PM
The one thing I think you can really knock Orton for is having a complete lack of elusiveness in the pocket. He has lead feet and watching him move around and scramble is atrocious.

Beantown Bronco
10-31-2010, 07:37 PM
The one thing I think you can really knock Orton for is having a complete lack of elusiveness in the pocket. He has lead feet and watching him move around and scramble is atrocious.

I can see saying this last season, but this year? And especially after a game in which he avoided 10 potential sacks with his legs? Insanity. He currently accounts for 17% of our rushing yards and over 86% of the Broncos total offensive yards.

He's running for his life out there.

Drek
10-31-2010, 08:06 PM
Maybe in time Josh will be a good coach. There are certain things he said he believes (3-4, physical line play even though his teams have never had that) that I like.

He's not ready at this time. We gave him too much power, too quick. To his dis-credit, I think he made moves to gain even more control than he could handle when he got the Goodman's fired and how Intern Xanders installed as our pseudo GM/coffee grabber.
I really doubt McDaniels got the Goodmans fired. Jim Goodman never wanted to be a GM and his son wasn't as qualified for the role as Xanders. Further, Xanders is supposed to be the "capologist" so he was needed since ownership wanted to clear the decks of all Shanahan's bad debt, as it where.

McDaniels didn't magically orchestrate something behind the scenes in a matter of weeks that made Bowlen go from saying Jim Goodman would be calling the shots on personnel to naming Xanders GM, letting both of the Goodmans go, and then having McDaniels do the shopping himself.

That said, his personnel moves have generally been pretty solid if you ask me. Moreno will be a very good back the second he gets any real blocking. Ayers is coming into his own as a quality SOLB in a 3-4 front. Cox, Thompson, and Vaughn look like gamers. While I still think he gave up on Smith too quick (and should've cut Jones instead) he turned Smith into a solid long term TE. And the youth on the OL, while struggling now, does have a lot of potential. Add in Thomas, Decker, and Tebow. Overall we've done well in our drafts.

The problem is he's still ignoring the D line and in a 3-4 you just can't do that. Our front line can't reliably engage 4 let alone 5 or 6 blockers on running downs, putting guards and TEs on our linebackers right off the snap. End result guys running through holes you could drive a truck through.

My single biggest concern with McDaniels right now is that he hasn't been coaching long enough to have the kinds of connections he needs to get the assistants needed to get the job done. Most of the hires were good last year but now with some serious turnover we've had some internal candidates step up that haven't gotten it done. You can't win football games if you shoot yourself in the foot and our complete lack of discipline comes from poor positional coaching by the guys McDaniels hired.

He comes up with great X's and O's for his game plans, but its all worth **** when our OL can't block, our WRs can't block, our DL can't control two gaps like they're supposed to, and no one can tackle. You add on the amazing ability to commit a stupid penalty on every big play we make and you've got a recipe for disaster.

Quoydogs
10-31-2010, 08:25 PM
I can see saying this last season, but this year? And especially after a game in which he avoided 10 potential sacks with his legs? Insanity. He currently accounts for 17% of our rushing yards and over 86% of the Broncos total offensive yards.

He's running for his life out there.

Running no, Waddling yes. ROFL!

orangemonkey
10-31-2010, 08:30 PM
I really doubt McDaniels got the Goodmans fired. Jim Goodman never wanted to be a GM and his son wasn't as qualified for the role as Xanders. Further, Xanders is supposed to be the "capologist" so he was needed since ownership wanted to clear the decks of all Shanahan's bad debt, as it where.

McDaniels didn't magically orchestrate something behind the scenes in a matter of weeks that made Bowlen go from saying Jim Goodman would be calling the shots on personnel to naming Xanders GM, letting both of the Goodmans go, and then having McDaniels do the shopping himself.

That said, his personnel moves have generally been pretty solid if you ask me. Moreno will be a very good back the second he gets any real blocking. Ayers is coming into his own as a quality SOLB in a 3-4 front. Cox, Thompson, and Vaughn look like gamers. While I still think he gave up on Smith too quick (and should've cut Jones instead) he turned Smith into a solid long term TE. And the youth on the OL, while struggling now, does have a lot of potential. Add in Thomas, Decker, and Tebow. Overall we've done well in our drafts.

The problem is he's still ignoring the D line and in a 3-4 you just can't do that. Our front line can't reliably engage 4 let alone 5 or 6 blockers on running downs, putting guards and TEs on our linebackers right off the snap. End result guys running through holes you could drive a truck through.

My single biggest concern with McDaniels right now is that he hasn't been coaching long enough to have the kinds of connections he needs to get the assistants needed to get the job done. Most of the hires were good last year but now with some serious turnover we've had some internal candidates step up that haven't gotten it done. You can't win football games if you shoot yourself in the foot and our complete lack of discipline comes from poor positional coaching by the guys McDaniels hired.

He comes up with great X's and O's for his game plans, but its all worth **** when our OL can't block, our WRs can't block, our DL can't control two gaps like they're supposed to, and no one can tackle. You add on the amazing ability to commit a stupid penalty on every big play we make and you've got a recipe for disaster.

This is precisely where the Broncos organization ****ed up. He should have never had the power to annihilate the organization top-to-bottom the way he did. Had we retained some of the veteran coaching, premier players, we wouldn't be in this position. While I agree with this point, I don't agree that this is the only problem with McD.

gyldenlove
10-31-2010, 08:38 PM
Exactly!

Hochstein, the rag doll, plus 2 rookies makes for a poor O line, no running game and a QB running for his life.

Starting one rookie is a liability, but two, a back up LG and a new blocking scheme is asking for trouble.

Poor planning and O line coaching.

The D line? Not much use since the SB runs and mostly treated like a stepchild since.

That offensive line is getting worse, they weren't bad the first couple of games, but now they get dominated in passing and running situations.

You can tell defenses are on to us, they know we go with 6 or 7 blockers on passing downs so they blitz like crazy knowing they can get man coverage wide with safeties deep anyway because they don't have to account for the RB and TE.

The biggest problem with the offensive line is coaching, they are not being put in a situation to succeed.

Broncos4tw
10-31-2010, 09:20 PM
I honestly don't even know the point of spending picks to get Tebow. Couldn't we have used those to MUCH better effect rather than getting a player that is literally running for 3 or 4 yards once or twice a game?

TheReverend
10-31-2010, 09:30 PM
Their two rookies are both 1st round draft picks.

Wouldn't it be awesome if we had a couple first rounders to invest in the lines the past two years?

...Wait, you're saying we had FOUR FIRST ROUND PICKS and spent ZERO of them on the OL or DL?

baja
10-31-2010, 10:11 PM
Maybe in time Josh will be a good coach. There are certain things he said he believes (3-4, physical line play even though his teams have never had that) that I like.

He's not ready at this time. We gave him too much power, too quick. To his dis-credit, I think he made moves to gain even more control than he could handle when he got the Goodman's fired and how Intern Xanders installed as our pseudo GM/coffee grabber.

What I know for sure is the O line is regressing and that's a big problem.

Broncos4tw
10-31-2010, 11:26 PM
Well, he is greatly improved over last year imo. But, I thought he was pretty horrible last year. This year, he is doing a few things better, most certainly. He actually tries to run the ball sometimes, he makes less mistakes.. I was very surprised not that he improved, but how much he did. I'm sure the ankles had plenty to do with it.

BUT.. he still makes some boneheaded plays. Here, he basically quits on this play - he sacks himself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig1NJGf4iGk

I don't think he was even touched. I really don't want him going back to his Kyle "Turfmagnet" days.

Popps
11-01-2010, 12:46 AM
Well, he is greatly improved over last year imo. But, I thought he was pretty horrible last year. This year, he is doing a few things better, most certainly. He actually tries to run the ball sometimes, he makes less mistakes.. I was very surprised not that he improved, but how much he did. I'm sure the ankles had plenty to do with it.

BUT.. he still makes some boneheaded plays. Here, he basically quits on this play - he sacks himself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig1NJGf4iGk

I don't think he was even touched. I really don't want him going back to his Kyle "Turfmagnet" days.

Yea, that looked a little phantom-sack-like.

Still, I have no problem with that as opposed to what he did later. (Not securing the ball.)

If the walls are caving in and you don't see a way out... go down and protect the ball. He's not Mike Vick.

He's obviously got toughness... returning to the game after that helmet-shot to the chest and playing well.

My main beef today (and last week) is just not securing the ball if you're running. Run full speed, tuck it away... or just slide and secure the ball. But, don't jog with the ball waving around.

strafen
11-01-2010, 12:53 AM
Orton is holding us back
The reason he came back after getting slammed into the ground is because it could've been the last snap he took in a Denver uniform going forward.
He knew it!