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UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-26-2010, 08:08 PM
Whats worse?

The worst season under Shannahan was the 6-10 season. We lost TD. Brian playing small ball. Dale Carter still on the team. Romo slowing down. An aging defense.

Or right now?

No poll coming.

tubbs
10-26-2010, 08:10 PM
Spiders thread

spdirty
10-26-2010, 08:15 PM
Easily this. The ferrari got dinged up but damnit it was still a damn ferrari. We had plenty to be optimistic about. I for one still felt like the future was bright even during that season, whichnever included a humiliating defeat like this.

Right now I feel like we are being run by Matt Millens clone.

Man-Goblin
10-26-2010, 08:16 PM
If this were an 18 game season, we'd still have eleven games to turn things around, and I would totally be talking myself into 8-3 the rest of the way. Lock it up. You think a 10-8 record at the end of the season is worse than 6-10? I think not.

gunns
10-26-2010, 08:32 PM
This.

For me it isn't the loss on Sunday, we've lost, in Denver, to the Raiders before. I have never seen a Broncos team give up or not show up for a game. I've seen games start out like that game but somewhere in the game the Broncos showed some heart and even if they lost, there was some pride to take away from the game. Even in our 6-10 season we swept the Raiders. The team tried. No one hopes more than me that we show at least some heart from here on out, but no matter what, the stain from Sunday will be unremoveable. My biggest question is why did this team lay down like that and make a lousy team look Super Bowl caliber? Yes it happens when a team just can't do anything right and the other team can't do anything wrong, but generally not at home, not 59-14 worth, not for the entire game is there little to no effort. At least not the Bronco teams I've watched for 40 years. I really thought after we scored 14 pts it would give the team some spark to at least come back a little.

To me the team has looked unorganized and maybe even confused this year and I keep waiting for that spark to wake them up. I don't know that this is all about injuries and rookies anymore. I don't know what it's about at all. Do we have namby pamby players who can't take a tough coach or do we have a coach who doesn't know how to unite his players and make them want to play for each other and him? I just don't know.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-26-2010, 08:36 PM
If this were an 18 game season, we'd still have eleven games to turn things around, and I would totally be talking myself into 8-3 the rest of the way. Lock it up. You think a 10-8 record at the end of the season is worse than 6-10? I think not.

Whhhhhhaaaat?

WolfpackGuy
10-26-2010, 08:44 PM
I don't see this team winning 4 more games to get to 6 wins.

Archer81
10-26-2010, 08:53 PM
Not entirely sure its a valid comparison. The 99 season came after back to back superbowls. That kind of gives the coaching staff and players tremendous lattitude if they have a letdown season.

Horrific loss aside, Im still giving McDaniels benefit of the doubt. Its not like he took over a yearly playoff contender loaded with talent. The mere fact that 24 months ago this team had over 30 players on the roster who have yet to find work anywhere else as a sign that we were severely lacking depth and talent. If this is what it takes to get a team that is talented enough to make a run, fine. I will suffer these type of losses if it means eventual playoff success down the road.

:Broncos:

KipCorrington25
10-26-2010, 08:56 PM
Ask yourself how confident are you in the current leadership vs. what your confidence was in the leadership then?

It's a lot different when a coach with a proven track record has a bad season compared to someone that has done nothing but be Belicheat's errand boy has one.

OBF1
10-26-2010, 08:58 PM
For those of you that say you have never seen Denver play so bad or never give up... Let me remind you of this game only 3 years ago.

Denver Broncos vs. San Diego Chargers
Sun. Oct. 7 in Denver
Invesco Field at Mile High
RESULT: Lost 3-41

Sproles and company gave us a complete ass whipping including reach around. Let me tell you, Dinner at the Denver Chop House was not that good after watching such a complete beatdown.

This game was brought to you by the golden child, greatest coach ever Mike Shanahan.

Get the fu ck off of McDaniel aready

Archer81
10-26-2010, 08:59 PM
Ask yourself how confident are you in the current leadership vs. what your confidence was in the leadership then?

It's a lot different when a coach with a proven track record has a bad season compared someone that has done nothing but be Belicheat's errand boy.


True.

But great coaches do not just appear out of thin air. So as I have said several times in other threads, he has three years with me. He is roughly halfway through said three years. Im pulling for him because I want the Broncos to succeed.

:Broncos:

broncswin
10-26-2010, 08:59 PM
Ask yourself how confident are you in the current leadership vs. what your confidence was in the leadership then?

It's a lot different when a coach with a proven track record has a bad season compared to someone that has done nothing but be Belicheat's errand boy has one.

end thread....is exactly right

spdirty
10-26-2010, 09:00 PM
I also remember every one on that team except Dale Carter fighting their asses off. Only 2 of our losses were by more than 1 score, and those were the first 2 games of the season.

I remember people saying that that season was Shanny's best job as coach of the Broncos. Because even when we started 0-4 and with all the injuries, the players still ran through a wall for him.

When that season was over I remember saying to myself "All you bastards wait till next year."

Taco John
10-26-2010, 09:07 PM
"We're Finished" was like a knife in my gut.

spdirty
10-26-2010, 09:11 PM
For those of you that say you have never seen Denver play so bad or never give up... Let me remind you of this game only 3 years ago.

Denver Broncos vs. San Diego Chargers
Sun. Oct. 7 in Denver
Invesco Field at Mile High
RESULT: Lost 3-41

Sproles and company gave us a complete ass whipping including reach around. Let me tell you, Dinner at the Denver Chop House was not that good after watching such a complete beatdown.

This game was brought to you by the golden child, greatest coach ever Mike Shanahan.

Get the fu ck off of McDaniel aready

Oh, **** you. The only time you can compare that game to anything McDaniels has done is if you compare that game to the 32-3 ASS POUNDING we took last year on our home field after our golden child greatest coach ever Josh McDaniels went to the Chargers players screaming "we own you!"

The coach we have right now has been a failure, a disappointment, and a punk. He should be forced to have to spend the rest of his life coaching Jay Cutler.

Now go ahead and start neg repping me you loser.

DarkHorse30
10-26-2010, 09:14 PM
Not entirely sure its a valid comparison. The 99 season came after back to back superbowls. That kind of gives the coaching staff and players tremendous lattitude if they have a letdown season.

Horrific loss aside, Im still giving McDaniels benefit of the doubt. Its not like he took over a yearly playoff contender loaded with talent. The mere fact that 24 months ago this team had over 30 players on the roster who have yet to find work anywhere else as a sign that we were severely lacking depth and talent. If this is what it takes to get a team that is talented enough to make a run, fine. I will suffer these type of losses if it means eventual playoff success down the road.

:Broncos:

good points. I, however, am done giving McDaniels anything. At this point, I have to search for things he has done right.

That said, I don't blame Bowlen for hiring him. I also am not horrified by the steps taken to rebuild the team. I AM irritated by the way that McDaniels and Xanders have chosen to rebuild everything at once. Too much, too soon. Meanwhile the rookies are floundering around without (as near as I can tell) much DIRECTION from the coaches. That's why this latest home loss is so unnerving. How are the coaches going to fix what ails this team? None of them are proven; no PROVEN leadership in the coaching ranks....how are you going to change that? Wait until they learn how to coach?

McDaniels hurries to take the blame.....WHO CARES? This is looking to be a big mess of a team that I don't trust McDaniels to fix. Is he going to be all rah-rah on the sidelines and cheerlead his team to victory? Screw the martyr approach...I want to see MARKED improvement, not a team that has no clue from week to week what it is doing.

spdirty
10-26-2010, 09:18 PM
McDaniels hurries to take the blame.....WHO CARES? This is looking to be a big mess of a team that I don't trust McDaniels to fix. Is he going to be all rah-rah on the sidelines and cheerlead his team to victory? Screw the martyr approach...I want to see MARKED improvement, not a team that has no clue from week to week what it is doing.

hey hey HEY!!! Its injuries dude. Injuries. Besides Shanahan was worse. Which is why not even halfway into this season he has already matched his teams win total from last year, has a winning record, and has at least been extremely competitive in his losses.

Archer81
10-26-2010, 09:20 PM
Oh, fu ck you. The only time you can compare that game to anything McDaniels has done is if you compare that game to the 32-3 ASS POUNDING we took last year on our home field after our golden child greatest coach ever Josh McDaniels went to the Chargers players screaming "we own you!"

The coach we have right now has been a failure, a disappointment, and a punk. He should have to spend the rest of his life coaching Jay Cutler.

Now you can start neg repping me you loser.


Over react a bit much? Calm down dude.

**** happens. Sometimes a perfect storm comes up and even the "best" head coaches get their asses handed to them. It does not mean the man is defficient or the team is talentless. Just means they had a horrible game.

I really dont get the angst over ONE division game when we have 5 more to go. Its not like the Broncos have been division beaters the last 5 years. Pointing out McDaniels failures in home division games and overlooking McDaniels road division games successes is a purely emotional response. Denver scored 23, 34 and 44 points in Oakland, SD and KC. So apparently he needs to figure out how to get these wins in Denver.

Relax.

:Broncos:

spdirty
10-26-2010, 09:33 PM
Over react a bit much? Calm down dude.

**** happens. Sometimes a perfect storm comes up and even the "best" head coaches get their asses handed to them. It does not mean the man is defficient or the team is talentless. Just means they had a horrible game.

I really dont get the angst over ONE division game when we have 5 more to go. Its not like the Broncos have been division beaters the last 5 years. Pointing out McDaniels failures in home division games and overlooking McDaniels road division games successes is a purely emotional response. Denver scored 23, 34 and 44 points in Oakland, SD and KC. So apparently he needs to figure out how to get these wins in Denver.

Relax.

:Broncos:

Look, I just want so badly for this team to win. And I worry this coach is taking us to depths that we have not seen in over 35 years. Scares the **** out of me that I think we are being taken to Bills/Browns/Lions/90's Bengals depths.

The only positive thing I can see that this coach has done has been to coach up Kyle Orton. Other than that he has been a total failure in just about every other facet of the game.

Looks to me like he needs to go back to just coaching quarterbacks.

Dr. Broncenstein
10-26-2010, 09:39 PM
I've never felt this hopeless over a post 90's Bronco team. In some ways it is therapeutic by putting things in perspective. It's not the end of the world. It's just a game. I just can't see any way out of this mess for the foreseeable future. This was never the case during the post Elway years with Shanny.

Popps
10-26-2010, 09:40 PM
It's bad now, but I expected problems this season because of the injury issues.

Too early to say just how bad.

I still believe we'd have a winning record with the squad we were supposed to field this year. But, it is what it is.

Archer81
10-26-2010, 09:40 PM
Look, I just want so badly for this team to win. And I worry this coach is taking us to depths that we have not seen in over 35 years. Scares the **** out of me that I think we are being taken to Bills/Browns/Lions/90's Bengals depths.

The only positive thing I can see that this coach has done has been to coach up Kyle Orton. Other than that he has been a total failure in just about every other facet of the game.

Looks to me like he needs to go back to just coaching quarterbacks.


In 5 of the 7 games this season Denver either won or had a shot to win late in the game. While it completely and utterly blows ass to lose to Oakland in spectacular and record breaking fashion, the team is not 59-14 bad and Josh is not suddenly a total failure at HC. Thats an overreaction to a singularly bad game. If Denver and Oakland played that same game 10 times, Denver wins it 8 times out of 10.

The team has .500 talent. Some games they will look like they could go deep in the playoffs. Then the very next game they look like the 2008 Lions. Thats what happens when you have a roster in pure rebuild mode.

I understand your frustration...no one wants 10-15 years of Buffalo/Detroit football around here. But it is a long road to rebuild a franchise so it can win consistently. Nothing is perfect, and having half your starters out on one side of the ball for huge parts of the season doesnt help that effort.

Deep breath man. It will get better.

:Broncos:

spdirty
10-26-2010, 09:42 PM
It's bad now, but I expected problems this season because of the injury issues.

Too early to say just how bad.

I still believe we'd have a winning record with the squad we were supposed to field this year. But, it is what it is.

We would have probably had a winning record in '08 with the squad we were suppose to field that year. But that excuse didnt work then.

Popps
10-26-2010, 09:43 PM
I've never felt this hopeless over a post 90's Bronco team. In some ways it is therapeutic by putting things in perspective. It's not the end of the world. It's just a game. I just can't see any way out of this mess for the foreseeable future. This was never the case during the post Elway years with Shanny.

The league isn't nearly what it was in the 90s and even early 2000s.

There really is true parity.

What team is "great" this year? None. Not even close. ANY team can be beaten. That's probably going to be the way it is for a few years.

Hence, teams will be able to improve themselves quickly and you'll see more upsets, imo.

Basically, I don't think you have to build the kind of team you had to build in the 90s to win a SB.

Can you imagine what the 90s Broncos or Cowboys would do to any team in the league right now? They'd would absolutely destroy all of them.

So, the mess might be able to be sorted out more quickly than you think. It's a different playing field now, imo.

Popps
10-26-2010, 09:44 PM
We would have probably had a winning record in '08 with the squad we were suppose to field that year. But that excuse didnt work then.

Oh, I agree. In fact, if Hillis stays healthy... Shanahan is still the coach.

It's not an excuse, it's a reality.

Coaches need healthy players.

Ask Shanahan.

baja
10-26-2010, 09:49 PM
Look, I just want so badly for this team to win. And I worry this coach is taking us to depths that we have not seen in over 35 years. Scares the **** out of me that I think we are being taken to Bills/Browns/Lions/90's Bengals depths.

The only positive thing I can see that this coach has done has been to coach up Kyle Orton. Other than that he has been a total failure in just about every other facet of the game.

Looks to me like he needs to go back to just coaching quarterbacks.

Your emotion is understandable given the way you see things.

I see it as one horrible demoralizing loss that is cause for concern but not enough to fire him. He could turn out fine in Denver. It's too early to tell.

Garcia Bronco
10-26-2010, 09:50 PM
"We're Finished" was like a knife in my gut.

I still have a copy of that issue.

Archer81
10-26-2010, 09:52 PM
I still have a copy of that issue.


I blocked it from my memory. Right after the 4 game losing streak to open the year, if I recall correctly.


:Broncos:

Dr. Broncenstein
10-26-2010, 09:54 PM
The league isn't nearly what it was in the 90s and even early 2000s.

There really is true parity.

What team is "great" this year? None. Not even close. ANY team can be beaten. That's probably going to be the way it is for a few years.

Hence, teams will be able to improve themselves quickly and you'll see more upsets, imo.

Basically, I don't think you have to build the kind of team you had to build in the 90s to win a SB.

Can you imagine what the 90s Broncos or Cowboys would do to any team in the league right now? They'd would absolutely destroy all of them.

So, the mess might be able to be sorted out more quickly than you think. It's a different playing field now, imo.

I have to disagree with you here. Baltimore just beat the ever living shiat out of us with a physical brand of football that is entirely out of our reach. The score didn't begin to reflect the comical discrepancy in talent across the board. We would have to hit on every draft for the next decade, which is essentially what the Ravens did.

Jetmeck
10-26-2010, 09:55 PM
In 5 of the 7 games this season Denver either won or had a shot to win late in the game. While it completely and utterly blows ass to lose to Oakland in spectacular and record breaking fashion, the team is not 59-14 bad and Josh is not suddenly a total failure at HC. Thats an overreaction to a singularly bad game. If Denver and Oakland played that same game 10 times, Denver wins it 8 times out of 10.

The team has .500 talent. Some games they will look like they could go deep in the playoffs. Then the very next game they look like the 2008 Lions. Thats what happens when you have a roster in pure rebuild mode.

I understand your frustration...no one wants 10-15 years of Buffalo/Detroit football around here. But it is a long road to rebuild a franchise so it can win consistently. Nothing is perfect, and having half your starters out on one side of the ball for huge parts of the season doesnt help that effort.

Deep breath man. It will get better.

:Broncos:

Josh is not suddenly a failure ? Second year......aren't things supposed to improve in your second year or tank like we have done ? He doesn't have this team, he never did. He doesn't have a clue !!!!

Tombstone RJ
10-26-2010, 10:00 PM
For those of you that say you have never seen Denver play so bad or never give up... Let me remind you of this game only 3 years ago.

Denver Broncos vs. San Diego Chargers
Sun. Oct. 7 in Denver
Invesco Field at Mile High
RESULT: Lost 3-41

Sproles and company gave us a complete ass whipping including reach around. Let me tell you, Dinner at the Denver Chop House was not that good after watching such a complete beatdown.

This game was brought to you by the golden child, greatest coach ever Mike Shanahan.

Get the fu ck off of McDaniel aready

this doesn't make the loss any easier, it's just pooring salt on the wound, IMHO. The Broncos haven't had that killer instinct since the SB years and Shanny certainly laid some eggs at home as well. This loss just stings more because it was to a bad faiders team.

NFLBRONCO
10-26-2010, 10:02 PM
Denver will not get better whoever the coach is until we upgrade DL OL ILB QB with more young great players. We lack that gamebreaker RB too.

We could use FS another CB too.

spdirty
10-26-2010, 10:03 PM
In 5 of the 7 games this season Denver either won or had a shot to win late in the game. While it completely and utterly blows ass to lose to Oakland in spectacular and record breaking fashion, the team is not 59-14 bad and Josh is not suddenly a total failure at HC. Thats an overreaction to a singularly bad game. If Denver and Oakland played that same game 10 times, Denver wins it 8 times out of 10.

I really want to see what this team does at McAfee in December. McD didnt show any film to his players today, as I think that was the right approach.

The team has .500 talent. Some games they will look like they could go deep in the playoffs. Then the very next game they look like the 2008 Lions. Thats what happens when you have a roster in pure rebuild mode.

We will have to see how they respond going forward. I'm honestly not expecting much. Hope I'm wrong.

I understand your frustration...no one wants 10-15 years of Buffalo/Detroit football around here. But it is a long road to rebuild a franchise so it can win consistently. Nothing is perfect, and having half your starters out on one side of the ball for huge parts of the season doesnt help that effort.

Deep breath man. It will get better.

:Broncos:

I do not like the way he is rebuilding. And I hate the fact that he decided to start the season with JD Walton, rather than looking to find a vet while JD develops the Tebow way.

Another thing I hate about this rebuild is that the organization has basically abandoned thinking about building the defensive line through the draft. The linebackers when healthy look good, but we all know the depth at linebacker sucks and really needs to improve, preferrably throught the draft.

And I know that in the 3-4 the most imprtant position is NT. I also know it is harder for a team to find a stud NT than it is to find a stud quarterback. But this organization needs to make that a priority. You absolutely CANNOT expect Jamal Williams to be the guy at NT next year. He cannot be trusted to stay healthy at his age and more recent injury history. A nice stopgap but they have to make it their number 1 priority to find the next young stud NT.

And after all that, I fully expect us to go wideout, slow dancing scatback, cornerback, left tackle, quarterback, kicker, or punter in the first round next year. Thats the kind of confidence I have in the teams rebuilding abilities.

spdirty
10-26-2010, 10:06 PM
Denver will not get better whoever the coach is until we upgrade DL OL ILB QB with more young great players.

Yep. Agree completely.

Archer81
10-26-2010, 10:06 PM
Josh is not suddenly a failure ? Second year......aren't things supposed to improve in your second year or tank like we have done ? He doesn't have this team, he never did. He doesn't have a clue !!!!


No, Josh is not a failure. regardless of how you feel about the Oakland game that game alone does not prove the man should not be a HC. It just means the team had a horrible ****ing game.

To be competitive in 6 out of 7 games and have a shot to win in 5 of them late is improvement. When the team has upgraded depth and talent, those close losses become wins. This is not rocket science.

People need to calm down. I dont recall people freaking out when Shanahan went 7-9 vs the division his first two seasons as Broncos HC.

:Broncos:

Archer81
10-26-2010, 10:09 PM
I really want to see what this team does at McAfee in December. McD didnt show any film to his players today, as I think that was the right approach.



We will have to see how they respond going forward. I'm honestly not expecting much. Hope I'm wrong.



I do not like the way he is rebuilding. And I hate the fact that he decided to start the season with JD Walton, rather than looking to find a vet while JD develops the Tebow way.

Another thing I hate about this rebuild is that the organization has basically abandoned thinking about building the defensive line through the draft. The linebackers when healthy look good, but we all know the depth at linebacker sucks and really needs to improve, preferrably throught the draft.

And I know that in the 3-4 the most imprtant position is NT. I also know it is harder for a team to find a stud NT than it is to find a stud quarterback. But this organization needs to make that a priority. You absolutely CANNOT expect Jamal Williams to be the guy at NT next year. He cannot be trusted to stay healthy at his age and more recent injury history. A nice stopgap but they have to make it their number 1 priority to find the next young stud NT.

And after all that, I fully expect us to go wideout, slow dancing scatback, cornerback, left tackle, quarterback, kicker, or punter in the first round next year. Thats the kind of confidence I have in the teams rebuilding abilities.


Nice summation. I agree with most of it. The drafting could be a little more straight forward but drafting purely on need is not always the best route to go. It limits options. Regardless of how this year turns out the front 7 will probably be the focus of the draft. You cant get away with stopgaps forever, as you mentioned.

:Broncos:

spdirty
10-26-2010, 10:18 PM
I see it as one horrible demoralizing loss that is cause for concern but not enough to fire him. He could turn out fine in Denver. It's too early to tell.

If he continues to build the roster the way he has, I guess with the exception of Orton, the regression will continue. Do you disagree with that?

Look, I am a results oriented guy to the bone. In April 2009 when McD told Alfred Williams on the Fan that we as fans need to judge him based on wins, I agreed, and took that to heart. He is 10-13, going through a 4-13 stretch, and I am judging him based on that. Is that in any way unfair? To judge him based on what he asked us to judge him on?

If this guy can turn it around, and get us to at least 9-7 on the year, fine. If he can't, I'm all of a sudden suppose to give him leeway? Why? Based on the way he's building the team? A bunch of guys that quit/didn't show up against the Raiders at home?

I'm sick of the excuses. I want results. And for all you guys that bring up what Jeff Fisher did last year, if this guy can duplicate that then great. We have something to look forward to if we have football next year. If he can't, then what?

colonelbeef
10-26-2010, 10:23 PM
No, Josh is not a failure. regardless of how you feel about the Oakland game that game alone does not prove the man should not be a HC. It just means the team had a horrible ****ing game.

To be competitive in 6 out of 7 games and have a shot to win in 5 of them late is improvement. When the team has upgraded depth and talent, those close losses become wins. This is not rocket science.

People need to calm down. I dont recall people freaking out when Shanahan went 7-9 vs the division his first two seasons as Broncos HC.

:Broncos:

Shanahan went 13-3 his second year as Broncos HC.

Stop comparing Josh McNobody to future Hall of Famer Mike Shanahan.

baja
10-26-2010, 10:26 PM
I've never felt this hopeless over a post 90's Bronco team. In some ways it is therapeutic by putting things in perspective. It's not the end of the world. It's just a game. I just can't see any way out of this mess for the foreseeable future. This was never the case during the post Elway years with Shanny.

Wait two or three more games. You need more evidence to reach hopelessness.

baja
10-26-2010, 10:30 PM
If he continues to build the roster the way he has, I guess with the exception of Orton, the regression will continue. Do you disagree with that?

Look, I am a results oriented guy to the bone. In April 2009 when McD told Alfred Williams on the Fan that we as fans need to judge him based on wins, I agreed, and took that to heart. He is 10-13, going through a 4-13 stretch, and I am judging him based on that. Is that in any way unfair? To judge him based on what he asked us to judge him on?

If this guy can turn it around, and get us to at least 9-7 on the year, fine. If he can't, I'm all of a sudden suppose to give him leeway? Why? Based on the way he's building the team? A bunch of guys that quit/didn't show up against the Raiders at home?

I'm sick of the excuses. I want results. And for all you guys that bring up what Jeff Fisher did last year, if this guy can duplicate that then great. We have something to look forward to if we have football next year. If he can't, then what?

When you completely make over a team what do you expect their record to be in the first two seasons, factor in our injuries to reach a more accurate expatiation.

Archer81
10-26-2010, 10:36 PM
Shanahan went 13-3 his second year as Broncos HC.

Stop comparing Josh McNobody to future Hall of Famer Mike Shanahan.


Really? Mike went 13-3 in year two? No way...

He still went 7-9 vs division opponents his first two years.

:Broncos:

NFLBRONCO
10-26-2010, 10:39 PM
When you completely make over a team what do you expect their record to be in the first two seasons, factor in our injuries to reach a more accurate expatiation.

This is why I'm not on the McD's lynch mob. I would like to see a solid effort in offseason to upgrade front 7 on D (3 players).

spdirty
10-26-2010, 10:40 PM
When you completely make over a team what do you expect their record to be in the first two seasons, factor in our injuries to reach a more accurate expatiation.

I expect a good win-loss record. Because that is what he asked to be judged on.

You know there is another coach over on the east coast that took over a team that would qualify as a rebuild. Taking over a 4-12 team I think qualifies as a rebuild. And he has them at 4-3.

Besides, I don't recall anyone shouting REBUILD a little over a year ago when we were 6-0, having beaten the Cowboys, Patriots, and at the Chargers.

spdirty
10-26-2010, 10:45 PM
Really? Mike went 13-3 in year two? No way...

He still went 7-9 vs division opponents his first two years.

:Broncos:

Ill take 7-9 vs the division if my team goes 21-11 during that span.

Its better than 3-4 and 10-13.

Archer81
10-26-2010, 10:47 PM
Ill take 7-9 vs the division if my team goes 21-11 during that span.

Its better than 3-4 and 10-13.


Yup it is.

But even the best coach in team history had problems with division games.

:Broncos:

spdirty
10-26-2010, 10:51 PM
Yup it is.

But even the best coach in team history had problems with division games.

:Broncos:

But he's 2-0 this year.:P

Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:04 PM
I expect home blowouts from division rivals to be the exception, not the rule. Each of our division rivals has blown us out at home. Meanwhile, we play east coast teams like we're marching to armageddon.

Whatever anyone wants to say about the blow-outs that we experienced with Shanahan, we always had a good idea that he understood the concept of an AFC West division rivalry.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-26-2010, 11:06 PM
There is a reason I choose Shannahans 6-10 year. We had every reason to just go into the tank. TD torn ACL. OLD ass Defense. Crap for QB. Old WR. If anything we had less to look forward to than what we have now. What was the difference?

Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:13 PM
There is a reason I choose Shannahans 6-10 year. We had every reason to just go into the tank. TD torn ACL. OLD ass Defense. Crap for QB. Old WR. If anything we had less to look forward to than what we have now. What was the difference?

Superbowl freshness... At one point I shrugged it off, and basked in the fact that Elway got his rings, and we'd be competitive again soon enough. I was expecting that the following season we'd be back in the hunt.

Archer81
10-26-2010, 11:43 PM
But he's 2-0 this year.:P


How is that relevant to what he did as Broncos head coach?

Against AFC west teams by year

1995: 3-5 (8-8)
1996: 6-2*(13-3)
1997: 6-2 (12-4)
1998: 8-0 (14-2)
1999: 4-4 (6-10)
2000: 6-2 (11-5)
2001: 4-4 (8-8)
2002: 3-3 (9-7)
2003: 5-1 (10-6)
2004: 3-3 (10-6)
2005: 5-1 (13-3)
2006: 3-3 (9-7)
2007: 3-3 (7-9)
2008: 3-3 (8-8)
Total: 62-36
1995: 3-5
1996-1998: 20-4
With Elway: 23-9
After Elway: 39-27

Shanny also had some of his most embarassing losses to division opponents, like a 34-10 game vs Oakland in 2002, 44-17 game at KC in 2004, 48-20 game at SD in 2006, 41-3 game vs SD in 2007 and 52-21 game at SD in 2008.

Division foes do that once and awhile, and once and awhile we do that to them. This hardly means whoever is coaching the Broncos is a horrible coach. Just means the team Josh has is not as talented or deep enough to win week in and out yet. This season has 9 games left. Improvement or not for that stretch and for whatever happens year 3 determines if he deserves a year 4.

*I messed up on the math earlier. 9-7 his first two years, not 7-9. Been a long day.

:Broncos:

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
10-27-2010, 12:11 AM
How is that relevant to what he did as Broncos head coach?

Against AFC west teams by year

1995: 3-5 (8-8)
1996: 6-2*(13-3)
1997: 6-2 (12-4)
1998: 8-0 (14-2)
1999: 4-4 (6-10)
2000: 6-2 (11-5)
2001: 4-4 (8-8)
2002: 3-3 (9-7)
2003: 5-1 (10-6)
2004: 3-3 (10-6)
2005: 5-1 (13-3)
2006: 3-3 (9-7)
2007: 3-3 (7-9)
2008: 3-3 (8-8)
Total: 62-36
1995: 3-5
1996-1998: 20-4
With Elway: 23-9
After Elway: 39-27

Shanny also had some of his most embarassing losses to division opponents, like a 34-10 game vs Oakland in 2002, 44-17 game at KC in 2004, 48-20 game at SD in 2006, 41-3 game vs SD in 2007 and 52-21 game at SD in 2008.

Division foes do that once and awhile, and once and awhile we do that to them. This hardly means whoever is coaching the Broncos is a horrible coach. Just means the team Josh has is not as talented or deep enough to win week in and out yet. This season has 9 games left. Improvement or not for that stretch and for whatever happens year 3 determines if he deserves a year 4.

*I messed up on the math earlier. 9-7 his first two years, not 7-9. Been a long day.

:Broncos:

Look at your own tread line. After ever fall there was an increase the (except 9-7, 7-9 with Cutler). But here the point. Do you see us being 8-8 this year?

kappys
10-27-2010, 12:18 AM
I've never felt this hopeless over a post 90's Bronco team. In some ways it is therapeutic by putting things in perspective. It's not the end of the world. It's just a game. I just can't see any way out of this mess for the foreseeable future. This was never the case during the post Elway years with Shanny.

The only hope is that it may well be tough to prognosticate 2 years down the road. Right now all signs point to no NFL season next year - which if current trends continue for the Broncos might actually be a relief. That said if there is no football next year the makeup of teams after coming back from a labor strike may be considerably different.

footstepsfrom#27
10-27-2010, 12:41 AM
Not entirely sure its a valid comparison. The 99 season came after back to back superbowls. That kind of gives the coaching staff and players tremendous lattitude if they have a letdown season.

Horrific loss aside, Im still giving McDaniels benefit of the doubt. Its not like he took over a yearly playoff contender loaded with talent. The mere fact that 24 months ago this team had over 30 players on the roster who have yet to find work anywhere else as a sign that we were severely lacking depth and talent. If this is what it takes to get a team that is talented enough to make a run, fine. I will suffer these type of losses if it means eventual playoff success down the road.

:Broncos:
I'm confused as to what possible connection you see between the way the team just performed and gaining a team talented enough to compete.

gunns
10-27-2010, 04:13 AM
I'm confused as to what possible connection you see between the way the team just performed and gaining a team talented enough to compete.

Thank you. I cannot believe some of the stuff I'm reading. This isn't something between coaches. Shanahan is gone, it was time to move on. The way some of you are talking, maybe we should go get Reeves out of retirement, he did take us to 3 SB's. Stupid.

Give Josh the benefit of the doubt, don't give him the benefit of the doubt, who the **** cares. We've shown that we can compete on some level this year, we didn't on Sunday. Why? This isn't the same as any loss we've ever had. I can't believe I'm hearing that. If it's just trying to find some optimism good for you, but it's off track as far as Sunday goes.

Archer81
10-27-2010, 09:38 AM
Look at your own tread line. After ever fall there was an increase the (except 9-7, 7-9 with Cutler). But here the point. Do you see us being 8-8 this year?


Yes.



:Broncos:

Archer81
10-27-2010, 09:40 AM
I'm confused as to what possible connection you see between the way the team just performed and gaining a team talented enough to compete.


Because I dont base my opinion on one badly played game.

Because in the previous six games denver either won or had chances to win. Which is usually a sign the team needs a bit more talent to win those close games.

:Broncos:

Mogulseeker
10-27-2010, 09:43 AM
Not entirely sure its a valid comparison. The 99 season came after back to back superbowls. That kind of gives the coaching staff and players tremendous lattitude if they have a letdown season.

Horrific loss aside, Im still giving McDaniels benefit of the doubt. Its not like he took over a yearly playoff contender loaded with talent. The mere fact that 24 months ago this team had over 30 players on the roster who have yet to find work anywhere else as a sign that we were severely lacking depth and talent. If this is what it takes to get a team that is talented enough to make a run, fine. I will suffer these type of losses if it means eventual playoff success down the road.

:Broncos:

^This

jhns
10-27-2010, 09:50 AM
For those of you that say you have never seen Denver play so bad or never give up... Let me remind you of this game only 3 years ago.

Denver Broncos vs. San Diego Chargers
Sun. Oct. 7 in Denver
Invesco Field at Mile High
RESULT: Lost 3-41

Sproles and company gave us a complete ass whipping including reach around. Let me tell you, Dinner at the Denver Chop House was not that good after watching such a complete beatdown.

This game was brought to you by the golden child, greatest coach ever Mike Shanahan.

Get the fu ck off of McDaniel aready

This is pretty typical of a lot of people here over the last year and a half. I just don't get it. What kind of fan continually talks bad about, and throws under the bus, the guy that has actually don't great things for this franchise while trying to hype and back a guy that has never done anything in this league? I don't know why I even am asking this because any response defending this stuff will just make me more confused. You mise well tell everyone Elway is **** and Orton is the greatest ever...

TailgateNut
10-27-2010, 11:19 AM
Shanahan went 13-3 his second year as Broncos HC.

Stop comparing Josh McNobody to future Hall of Famer Mike Shanahan.


wouldn't have anything to do with the caliber of players on the squad, would it?

ScottXray
10-27-2010, 11:31 AM
I've never felt this hopeless over a post 90's Bronco team. In some ways it is therapeutic by putting things in perspective. It's not the end of the world. It's just a game. I just can't see any way out of this mess for the foreseeable future. This was never the case during the post Elway years with Shanny.

Not even after the last game of 08 (52-21 whipping in SD) when he said that Slowik would return as D-coord? That absolutley defined the reason it was time to change. And Yeah Shanny is now revitalised in DC, but that would not have happened without the wake up call that he received.

I also am starting to lose faith that McD can turn it around, but frankly we all will have to wait and see. It is disappointing to see that the changes aren't resulting in visible positive results. Hopefully this will start to happen. If it doesn't and the team continues to decline then another change will occur, sooner than we thought probably. Until then I'll keep watching and hope that something good eventually happens.
And I'll try to keep in mind that no matter how much I care, it is just a game, and doesn't really MEAN much, in the grand scheme of things.

gunns
10-27-2010, 11:45 AM
I've never felt this hopeless over a post 90's Bronco team. In some ways it is therapeutic by putting things in perspective. It's not the end of the world. It's just a game. I just can't see any way out of this mess for the foreseeable future. This was never the case during the post Elway years with Shanny.

That's exactly why I'm glad Shanahan is gone, after 10 years of one playoff win, I didn't see that we were going to get out of that mess. Not with the way Shanahan was handling the defense. Yes I know he had some winning seasons but, for example, I saw that 2005 season as almost more of a fluke than last Sunday. And that was proven in the AFCC game. It isn't just about wins and losses it's about the playoffs and what you've done for me lately and Shanahan really hadn't done much. I'm wondering how long before Washington starts to diminish on defense and he takes a WR in the first round. McD may or may not be the coach for the Broncos but I do not want Shanahan back.