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View Full Version : If Josh were to go with Tebow...


Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:01 AM
poll

TailgateNut
10-26-2010, 11:02 AM
I've got your "pole" right here.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:02 AM
i've got your "pole" right here.

rofl!

Dagmar
10-26-2010, 11:04 AM
How hard are you pushing this and why?

Ray Finkle
10-26-2010, 11:04 AM
I'd want him fired....it will only ruin Tebow since he is not ready yet. Some guys you can throw right into the fire, some you cannot. I do not think Rivers, Rodgers, etc would be the QB today if they started as rooks.

jhns
10-26-2010, 11:06 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing what the kid has and letting him develope. I would approve.

PRBronco
10-26-2010, 11:06 AM
Disapprove. Keep Tim safe while he learns. If you want a QB with PTSD just throw Quinn in there.

bronco militia
10-26-2010, 11:06 AM
if the broncos are 2-6 and Orton is injured/ineffective, why not?

Rabb
10-26-2010, 11:06 AM
I am just not sure. I don't blame Orton for the season right now, but I could see Josh making a last-ditch effort to save his ass if we lose this week also.

BMarsh615
10-26-2010, 11:07 AM
Kyle Orton isn't the longterm answer at QB. He is solid but he isn't someone I want to build a team around. I say go with the first round pick.

baja
10-26-2010, 11:08 AM
poll

Starting Tebow after the bye would be go_broncos level stupid.

Dagmar
10-26-2010, 11:09 AM
Tim Tebow would be protected on his blind side by another rookie. If we lose in London it probably wouldn't matter, as the season would be 100% over. I just think it could be bad for the locker room.

baja
10-26-2010, 11:10 AM
Glad you made this public now we will have a ready list of clueless posters to cut and paste.

Rabb
10-26-2010, 11:10 AM
Starting Tebow after the bye would be go_broncos level stupid.

Hilarious!

Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:11 AM
How hard are you pushing this and why?

Try and find a more relevant question, and we'll see how your thread does in comparison with my thread.

I don't think there is a more relevant player question that you could ask this week. But, the forum is open to everyone and anyone to try. So instead of whining about it, come up with a better topic.

TailgateNut
10-26-2010, 11:11 AM
come on Taco, we want to know where you stand???


I'll guess you'll be rejoicing and angels will be circling above your hacienda.

Kaylore
10-26-2010, 11:12 AM
At this point there's nothing left to lose. We aren't going anywhere. Tebow is more ready than people think and he is one of the few Rookie QB's who's mentally not going to break down by being thrown in too soon. He just doesn't break.

tsiguy96
10-26-2010, 11:12 AM
what the hell does tebow have to do with winning and losing so far? hes not ready to be an NFL QB, much less replace someone like orton, why is this even being discussed?

baja
10-26-2010, 11:14 AM
At this point there's nothing left to lose. We aren't going anywhere. Tebow is more ready than people think and he is one of the few Rookie QB's who's mentally not going to break down by being thrown in too soon. He just doesn't break.

Ya like Orton is the problem.

Good luck resigning your vets.

Rohirrim
10-26-2010, 11:15 AM
Let me see Tebow move an NFL team 80 yards down the field for a score against another NFL team before I make my decision. Frankly, I don't think he could do it.

Dagmar
10-26-2010, 11:15 AM
Try and find a more relevant question, and we'll see how your thread does in comparison with my thread.

I don't think there is a more relevant player question that you could ask this week. But, the forum is open to everyone and anyone to try. So instead of whining about it, come up with a better topic.

Why is replacing one of the few productive players this season relevant?

colonelbeef
10-26-2010, 11:18 AM
Massive mistake to play Tebow now.

Dagmar
10-26-2010, 11:18 AM
Remember, the coach has had him on the field MANY times and not allowed him a throw.

Popps
10-26-2010, 11:18 AM
Taco seems to be on another QB crusade.

I thought you were an Orton-fan, Taco?


The poll is basically un-voteable. There needs to be an explanation. Why would we be going with a 2-3 year QB project over a guy with borderline Pro Bowl numbers at this point? Are we talking about an injury situation?

Beyond that, with QB being one of the only positions of consistency, why would McDaniels decide to make the change THERE, instead of addressing one of our actual problem areas?

Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:19 AM
come on Taco, we want to know where you stand???


I'll guess you'll be rejoicing and angels will be circling above your hacienda.

I'm still mulling it over. I'm leaning on approve for this reason:

I think Josh is probably a lame duck right now, and that the only way Josh can turn that around is to inject a new spark plug into the offense. I think the team would react negatively to the move initially, but that Tebow would win them over. I think Tebow would probably take ownership of the team in a way that Orton simply can't. Orton's contract nueters him in this regard. This isn't his team and everybody knows it. So why continue to pretend?

No, I think now that I've fleshed it out a little bit, not only would I approve, but I think it's probably the right thing to do for the good of the franchise. I hate to throw Orton under the bus like that - I really like the guy. But Josh has not offered him a long term contract for a reason, and that reason is that this is Tebow's team. So why delay?

jhns
10-26-2010, 11:19 AM
Ya like Orton is the problem.

Good luck resigning your vets.

LOL... Your concern is losing the locker room? Again, LOL...

Who says Orton isn't part of the problem? Have we been winning with Orton? Has he been leading the team to scores when we are down in the late 4th? Orton sure hasn't proven to be the solution...

Rabb
10-26-2010, 11:19 AM
I think it's 100% relevant, if you consider that logic may go out the window when the coach is trying to save himself.

It's not about what we want, it's about what you would approve of.

ant1999e
10-26-2010, 11:20 AM
starting tebow after the bye would be go_broncos level stupid.

lol

Jay3
10-26-2010, 11:20 AM
Approve. The wheels are falling off. Need a spark, a sign that the status quo was not maintained.

Rabb
10-26-2010, 11:21 AM
I'm still mulling it over. I'm leaning on approve for this reason:

I think Josh is probably a lame duck right now, and that the only way Josh can turn that around is to inject a new spark plug into the offense. I think the team would react negatively to the move initially, but that Tebow would win them over. I think Tebow would probably take ownership of the team in a way that Orton simply can't. Orton's contract nueters him in this regard. This isn't his team and everybody knows it. So why continue to pretend?

No, I think now that I've fleshed it out a little bit, not only would I approve, but I think it's probably the right thing to do for the good of the franchise. I hate to throw Orton under the bus like that - I really like the guy. But Josh has not offered him a long term contract for a reason, and that reason is that this is Tebow's team. So why delay?

I have to disagree with that part TJ, players make it really clear that Orton is their guy

Dagmar
10-26-2010, 11:21 AM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/10/26/tim-tebow-meets-the-british-press/5637/

It should come as absolutely no surprise that the Broncos player the British press most wanted to meet this week was none other than Tim Tebow (http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/tag/tim-tebow/).
Apparently his fame translated across the pond, as well.
So the Broncos rookie quarterback from the University of Florida spent 10 minutes on a conference call early this morning with reporters from a number of British newspapers, including The (London) Times, The Daily Mirror, The Daily Telegraph as well as the BBC. All in all, the call was fairly tame.
Here are some of the highlights (per a transcript from the fine folks at the Broncos PR office):
Q: What are you looking forward to most about your trip to London, and have you been to London before?
A: I have been to London before, and I really enjoyed my trip. It was more of a vacation a few years ago with my family. This trip there are several things that will be exciting for me. It will be exciting to play the San Francisco 49ers and it will be a lot of fun to do it in a very unique way in going to London and hopefully seeing a little bit of the area and get to play in a new stadium and experience the crowd.
Q: What would you normally be doing on Halloween?
A: Most of the time I would be getting ready to play the University of Georgia. That’s usually what I would be getting ready to do.
Q: Kyle Orton is playing out of his skin this year. Are you happy sitting on the bench? Did you expect this to be a learning year?
A: I am trying to learn each week and get a lot better. Kyle is doing very well and I’m just trying to do as much as I can with the role they give me. Whatever they ask me to do I’m trying to do with all my heart, get better in practice and keep improving. Whatever opportunity I get I’m trying to do my best with it.
Q: How satisfied are you with your progress this season?
A: As a competitor you always want to be out there playing, so it’s tough not being able to be on the field to help your team. You have to understand you have a long way to go learning the offenses, the defense schemes and improving every day in practice. That’s why every day of practice is so important to me, to try to improve and understand it better so I can play a little bit faster. I take every day as a learning opportunity to try to make myself better.
Q: As an athlete how important is it for you to send good messages to the wider public?
A: I think one of the greatest things that pro athletes have is a platform that their sport gives them and to have so many people looking up to them. I believe it is their responsibility to be a role model to the kids and families that look up to them, because they can make a difference to so many people’s lives and bring faith, hope and love to those needing a brighter day in their darkest hour of need if they only try. That’s something I want to be is a better role model to kids and all the people looking up to me, and I would like to encourage other athletes to do the same, because who knows what a difference they could make if they just go into a hospital and spend time with kids and let them know that they care about them and encourage them. If more athletes took that approach they could really make a difference in people’s lives.


That's the 2nd time in as many weeks I have seen a quote like that.

Popps
10-26-2010, 11:21 AM
If the season ended today, Orton would be 2nd in yardage... 11 TDs against 4 INTs with a 92 QB rating.

As of now, Kyle Orton is a Pro Bowl quarterback if you go by the numbers.

ant1999e
10-26-2010, 11:22 AM
LOL... Your concern is losing the locker room? Again, LOL...

Who says Orton isn't part of the problem? Have we been winning with Orton? Has he been leading the team to scores when we are down in the late 4th? Orton sure hasn't proven to be the solution...

What insightful logic. Lets bench Champ, DJ, Bdawk and the rest of the team.
What a ****ing idiot.

Rock Chalk
10-26-2010, 11:22 AM
Do it, lose the entire locker room in the EXACT same manner that you lost it when Jake was benched. Good ****ing call that. 7-4 and no playoffs because Suckler had no business being in there that soon. You think the team quit against the Raiders, put Tebow in now and see what happens.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:23 AM
I have to disagree with that part TJ, players make it really clear that Orton is their guy

They sure didn't play like that on Sunday.

I agree that the players like Orton. Orton is a supremely likeable guy. But do you think Orton's going to be extended by another 5 years?

ant1999e
10-26-2010, 11:23 AM
Do it, lose the entire locker room in the EXACT same manner that you lost it when Jake was benched. Good ****ing call that. 7-4 and no playoffs because Suckler had no business being in there that soon. You think the team quit against the Raiders, put Tebow in now and see what happens.

Exactly and see where that got us.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:23 AM
Do it, lose the entire locker room in the EXACT same manner that you lost it when Jake was benched.

You can't lose a locker room that you've already lost.

Rabb
10-26-2010, 11:24 AM
They sure didn't play like that on Sunday.

I agree that the players like Orton. Orton is a supremely likeable guy. But do you think Orton's going to be extended by another 5 years?

no I don't, but that's not the question

the players are behind Orton, it's his team

Rabb
10-26-2010, 11:25 AM
You can't lose a locker room that you've already lost.

this is where we agree, and why I could see him making the change

I just don't know if knee-jerk is what we need

ant1999e
10-26-2010, 11:25 AM
They sure didn't play like that on Sunday.

I agree that the players like Orton. Orton is a supremely likeable guy. But do you think Orton's going to be extended by another 5 years?

We don't need him for 5 years, but for 1-3 more while Tebow develops and learns.

Ray Finkle
10-26-2010, 11:25 AM
You can't lose a locker room that you've already lost.

I don't see the that happening yet....lose in London and get ass canned by KC and SD and yes, I'll agree.

Rascal
10-26-2010, 11:26 AM
I would prefer to wait a couple more weeks, but I can see the rationale.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:27 AM
If the season ended today, Orton would be 2nd in yardage... 11 TDs against 4 INTs with a 92 QB rating.

As of now, Kyle Orton is a Pro Bowl quarterback if you go by the numbers.


Do you think Orton is going to get a 5 year extension any time soon?

Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:27 AM
I would prefer to wait a couple more weeks, but I can see the rationale.

A couple of weeks is this week, and our bye week. And then we face KC at home.

Rock Chalk
10-26-2010, 11:28 AM
You can't lose a locker room that you've already lost.

Oh so we are believing light rail rumors now?

I didn't know that was on the table.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:28 AM
We don't need him for 5 years, but for 1-3 more while Tebow develops and learns.

Why in the world would Kyle's agent accept a 1-3 year deal when he could get a 5-7 year deal somewhere else for probably a lot more money?

Rohirrim
10-26-2010, 11:29 AM
I wouldn't mind Josh giving Tebow more playing time. Make him look real good, and then trade him for the highest draft pick you can get and trade up for Andrew Luck in the draft. Problem solved for 20 years.

Several experts talk of seeing Luck for a short period of time and knowing immediately that he is far more developed than his age and experience would suggest. “Let me tell you a story,” says Rod Gilmore, an ESPN college football analyst and former Stanford defensive back. “My sophomore year, our starting quarterback-to-be was Turk Schonert. Turk had been around Stanford for a long time, sat behind Guy Benjamin, sat beind Steve Dils, guys who led the NCAA in passing. Turk was ready. Turk was great. We figured Turk was going to lead the country in passing also. One summer practice, John Elway shows up.”

Elway stepped in and threw one pass — that’s all Gilmore needed to see. He knew immediately that Elway was better than Schonert. “There was no doubt about him and what he was going to be,” Gilmore says. “It was the same thing with Andrew Luck. The first time I saw him in practice I said, ‘Oh, my goodness. We finally have found another one.’ ” (From SI)

Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:29 AM
Oh so we are believing light rail rumors now?

I didn't know that was on the table.

No, I think we're believing our eyes.

jhns
10-26-2010, 11:29 AM
What insightful logic. Lets bench Champ, DJ, Bdawk and the rest of the team.
What a ****ing idiot.

Saying we are going to lose the locker room by replacing a player on a **** team is pretty comical. Saying we are going to lose the locker room because of this, after what we just saw on the field, is just brilliant.

Anyways, the "winner" crap is the exact excuse I heard from a lot of you as to why it was such a great idea to go to Orton. He was a winner and our last QB wasn't. I am just trying to work at your idiotic level here.

Dagmar
10-26-2010, 11:30 AM
You can't lose a locker room that you've already lost.

MaxBroncos
MaxBroncos MaxBroncos
When asked whether he thought McDaniels had lost the team, Champ Bailey replied, "Not at all."
23 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

I'll take Champs word thanks.

baja
10-26-2010, 11:30 AM
After reading the posts this week when one poster calls another poster a little girl on this site it's actually a complement.

Popps
10-26-2010, 11:31 AM
I'm still looking for the proof that he's "lost the locker room."

And don't say it's because of what happened on Sunday. That just looked like a bunch of miscues, mistakes and a team ravaged by injuries starting a scout team on defense.

What tangible, real evidence do we have that he's lost the locker room, and if we're just talking about single game performances... why aren't we including the prior week where the team put forth a very solid effort?

If a coach loses a locker room, we should be hearing from players via interviews, tweets, something.

Even Josina has yet to pull any info from her "sources" with the team. (If you know what I'm saying.)

extralife
10-26-2010, 11:31 AM
No. Just no.

Popps
10-26-2010, 11:32 AM
Do you think Orton is going to get a 5 year extension any time soon?

Wait, is this a new poll? I thought we were talking about the bye week.

Rock Chalk
10-26-2010, 11:32 AM
No, but he got a 1 year extension which means McDaniels - who no one doubts as a QB Developer - thought enough about Orton and Tebow to make that decision that we needed Orton for at least one more year.

Tebow is not and will not be ready to go in there now and it will most definitely do more harm to his development than good and will ensure that we do not win but maybe one or two more games this year.

WITH Orton we could still get to .500.

And once again, let me remind you, your eye for Quarterbacks is notoriously horrible. You wanted Griese even after we got Plummer. You wanted cutler over plummer as soon as we drafted him and you hated Kyle Orton until two weeks ago when you decided to jump on the bandwagon after the win against Tennessee. Then as soon as the rest of the team blows their gasket you blame the QB who is the only person on the offense playing at a high level.

Your football knowledge is ****ing brilliant Isaac and every single year you continue to amaze me with your completely ****-tarded logic and point of view.

Dagmar
10-26-2010, 11:32 AM
Do you think Orton is going to get a 5 year extension any time soon?

No, but don't you think you could hurt Tebow's progress?

I'm playing somewhat devil's advocate too, as I wouldn't be very angry if the future started this week. I just don't know if it's a good idea.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:32 AM
MaxBroncos
MaxBroncos MaxBroncos
When asked whether he thought McDaniels had lost the team, Champ Bailey replied, "Not at all."
23 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

I'll take Champs word thanks.



I respect Champ and certainly take him at his word. But what else is he going to say?

Quoydogs
10-26-2010, 11:33 AM
Tim Tebow would be protected on his blind side by another rookie. If we lose in London it probably wouldn't matter, as the season would be 100% over. I just think it could be bad for the locker room.

On that note, what do you do with Clady ? Do you move him to RT when Tebow takes over ? That is a huge amount of money to pay for a Left tackle when the RT is your BS Tackle.

mr007
10-26-2010, 11:33 AM
Taco seems to be on another QB crusade.

I thought you were an Orton-fan, Taco?


The poll is basically un-voteable. There needs to be an explanation. Why would we be going with a 2-3 year QB project over a guy with borderline Pro Bowl numbers at this point? Are we talking about an injury situation?

Beyond that, with QB being one of the only positions of consistency, why would McDaniels decide to make the change THERE, instead of addressing one of our actual problem areas?

Wow - I completely agree with Popps for a change =).

Rabb
10-26-2010, 11:34 AM
No, but don't you think you could hurt Tebow's progress?

I'm playing somewhat devil's advocate too, as I wouldn't be very angry if the future started this week. I just don't know if it's a good idea.

I think this sums it up for me actually just about perfectly...it's why I voted undecided.

baja
10-26-2010, 11:35 AM
I respect Champ and certainly take him at his word. But what else is he going to say?

"I got a game to get ready for I don't have time for those kind of questions"

Popps
10-26-2010, 11:35 AM
I respect Champ and certainly take him at his word. But what else is he going to say?

Taco, this gets into the "we never landed on the moon" territory.

If you're pushing a conspiracy theory, you need to prove conventional thinking wrong, not the other way around.

There has been no tangible evidence outside of a loss that hes' "lost the team." Now, a star player is saying that he absolutely has not lost the team.

Teams lose games all the time. Sometimes it's ugly. It doesn't have to mean the coach lost the team. I mean, it's sports. Bad losses happen.

The burden of proof is on those pushing the conspiracy theory, not the other way around.

lostknight
10-26-2010, 11:35 AM
I don't know right now. The only common denominator the last two weeks were sub-par games from Orton (41% completion rate). In a WR heavy scheme like ours, that won't get it done.

We don't know what the status of the locker room is. No player has stepped up to endorse (outside of the always willing Mr. Bailey) McDaniels right now - but no "murmuring" from the locker room. The complete silence from the front office on the other hand is very ominous.

Pat Bowlen's gotta be licking his chops at the idea of getting Tebow the ball - not for performance reasons, but for fiscal reasons. Tebow is a huge, international draw for a team that is increasingly irrelevant. But throwing Tebow out there before he is ready hurts everyone, most particularly Tebow.

So my guess is, and i think the best option at this point is to try and fix what's gone wrong with Orton, take what appears to be inevitable high draft pick, and get ourselves some safety and d-line help.

broncogary
10-26-2010, 11:36 AM
Glad you made this public now we will have a ready list of clueless posters to cut and paste.

So grow a pair and vote. Ha!

baja
10-26-2010, 11:40 AM
So grow a pair and vote. Ha!

This poll isn't even worth dignifying with a vote.

In the past I tried to make a silly poll or two and thought I had a few "winners" but this tops all of my efforts hands down, I'll give it that.

jhns
10-26-2010, 11:41 AM
This poll is filled with liars. A lot of the people in the no column would be throwing Orton under the bus and calling the move a great one if it happened. The guy talking the most **** in this thread, baja, is one of them. It happens with every move and now all of these posters have suddenly changed? Riiiight.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:41 AM
You wanted Griese even after we got Plummer.
Yeah, as a back-up. I wanted to see Griese and Plummer compete for the job because I thought it would push one or the other to be a better quarterback. I never saw Griese as a savior. I saw him as a Kyle Orton type - or conversely, I see Kyle Orton as a better Griese.

You wanted cutler over plummer as soon as we drafted him
I would still take Jay Cutler over Jake Plummer even today. Jake Plummer washed out of the league because he couldn't hack the pressure. Cutler isn't showing to be too much a better option, but at least he's still playing football and didn't quit because things got rough for him.
and you hated Kyle Orton until two weeks ago when you decided to jump on the bandwagon after the win against Tennessee.
This is nothing short of a lie. I have never hated Kyle Orton, never said anything bad about him, an have always supported him coming to Denver. I think Kyle Orton gives us the heady kind of football that we need in transition, and that under the right circumstances he could be a Mark Rypien type who can guide a good team to a Superbowl.

Then as soon as the rest of the team blows their gasket you blame the QB who is the only person on the offense playing at a high level.
I'm not blaming the QB. I don't think Kyle is at fault even an ounce here. He's the best thing we have going so far as I can tell. That's not the question here.

Your football knowledge is ****ing brilliant Isaac and every single year you continue to amaze me with your completely ****-tarded logic and point of view.
I have no problem putting it up to yours any day. I'm ten times the insightful poster that you are.

Ray Finkle
10-26-2010, 11:42 AM
I respect Champ and certainly take him at his word. But what else is he going to say?

come on. You asked for proof, you got proof and now you want to punch holes in that?

As far as I can remember, you favored Griese or Jake, the drafting of Matt drunk-o Leinhuuuurt, and Cutler.....Now you want to throw Tebow out there before he is ready.

zdoor
10-26-2010, 11:43 AM
If we lose to the 9ers than I would say yes. The season is over and he may as well get experience.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:43 AM
Taco, this gets into the "we never landed on the moon" territory.

Uh what? That's just a wierd thing to say.

Champ is a professional. He's not going to come out and throw the coach or anyone in the organization under the bus in the media. If he has a problem, he'll deal with it in-house. How is this "we never landed on the moon" territory.

Don't be so daft.

Rohirrim
10-26-2010, 11:44 AM
I have no problem putting it up to yours any day. I'm ten times the insightful poster that you are.

But you don't have his flair for language. ;)

broncogary
10-26-2010, 11:45 AM
This poll isn't even worth dignifying with a vote.

In the past I tried to make a silly poll or two and thought I had a few "winners" but this tops all of my efforts hands down, I'll give it that.

You're too modest. :sunshine:

Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:46 AM
There has been no tangible evidence outside of a loss that hes' "lost the team." Now, a star player is saying that he absolutely has not lost the team.




Let me correct you: There has been no tangible evidence outside of the worst loss in team history that he's "lost the team."

I guess if watching guys flat give up on the field showing absolutely no pride whatsoever doesn't count as evidence, then nothing does.

Br0nc0Buster
10-26-2010, 11:46 AM
with JD Walton blocking, perhaps its best to keep Tebow on the bench so he can survive the year

baja
10-26-2010, 11:47 AM
Now that I reread the poll question, " If Josh were to announce he was going with Tebow during our bye week you would..."

I would be fine with Josh starting Tebow during the bye week just not during an actually game. Question is would be be playing the early game or the late game during the bye week.

Would he be home or away?

Would he wear the throw back jerseys?

Would he be in Pads?

Will he snap the ball to himself?

What will the TOP look like?

Where do I get a ticket?

baja
10-26-2010, 11:50 AM
TJ - I would still take Jay Cutler over Jake Plummer even today. Jake Plummer washed out of the league because he couldn't hack the pressure. Cutler isn't showing to be too much a better option,<b> but at least he's still playing football and didn't quit because things got rough for him.

Na Jay didn't quit just ask Bowlen of Mcdaniels. LOL LOL

Or any self respecting Bronco fan that doesn't consider themselves a "6" for that matter

Popps
10-26-2010, 11:51 AM
Uh what? That's just a wierd thing to say.

Champ is a professional. He's not going to come out and throw the coach or anyone in the organization under the bus in the media. If he has a problem, he'll deal with it in-house. How is this "we never landed on the moon" territory.

Don't be so daft.

It's not daft, man... you're making a claim that contradicts all the facts on the table, as in... we never landed on the moon.

So, again... the burden isn't on us, it's on you. Claiming that you "don't believe" a member of the team who tells you you're wrong is not proof.


Wow, and your posts had generally improved over the past year. This thread is sort of your Raiders game, dude. Let's hope it's an exception.

Popps
10-26-2010, 11:54 AM
Na Jay didn't quit just ask Bowlen of Mcdaniels. LOL LOL

Or any self respecting Bronco fan that doesn't consider themselves a "6" for that matter

Oh well, Jake will always have something that Jay never will...

-Playofff wins
-Fantastic stats as a Bronco
-Fans that will remember him for revitalizing the franchise and providing us with exciting times.

But, Jay probably set a team record for INTs in 2 seasons? So, that's something.

jhns
10-26-2010, 11:55 AM
If McDaniels didn't lose the locker room, and his players still believe in him, then he is a horrible coach. I have never seen a team so unprepared, and uninspired, in my life.

Mile High Shack
10-26-2010, 11:55 AM
no, since I don't think Tebow is an NFL quarterback to begin with, which is another reason Xanders and McDaniels are failures

baja
10-26-2010, 11:55 AM
So TJ do the advertisers pay according to site traffic and is today the end of the monthly cycle. Is this the reason for this thread? ;D

Hogan11
10-26-2010, 11:58 AM
Disapprove...Orton is kicking ass and I'm far from being a Tebow fan.

bronco_diesel
10-26-2010, 11:59 AM
I would not start him just yet. I would however, give him more PT.

The premise to go with TT is based on two major assumptions: 1) McD lost the locker room, and 2) McD is a lame duck coach.
It is, at this juncture, too early to tell. I do think how the team responds to this loss will determine the fate of McD. I also wonder how much leeway Bowlen will give McD considering the hand he’s been dealt this season with losing his starting OLB’s (who are both his best pass rushers), an injured RT and LT who are playing below their norm, and the injuries at RB.

All that said, I think KO is this teams version of Steve DeBerg. He’s good, but not great. His lack of mobility will always limit his ceiling. He’s not the future and everyone knows it. I think you ride out this season with KO and trade him in the offseason and get as much for him as you can. This assumes that the team responds well and plays the rest of the season with heart. In this case, you continue to implement TT into the game plan and groom him for next year without all the pressure.

If they lay another egg this weekend, where the team clearly does not respond to McD – then I think it is time to make the move and give the kid a shot. He’s got the fire that might spark something in the team.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 12:04 PM
So TJ do the advertisers pay according to site traffic and is today the end of the monthly cycle. Is this the reason for this thread? ;D

LOL

No. Actually the finances of this site are a little upside down right now. I pay for more traffic. We cover the nut, but I'm not seeing anything extra for increased traffic in our current model. From a financial perspective, I was better off on the last server because it was a set monthly fee and extra traffic meant extra revenue. But I'd rather have us open and available on game days and lose that extra bit than have to resource gate people when they want to celebrate or vent. I'm certainly not complaining.

TailgateNut
10-26-2010, 12:13 PM
Disapprove...Orton is kicking ass and I'm far from being a Tebow fan.


Ding, ding, ding.........

baja
10-26-2010, 12:14 PM
LOL

No. Actually the finances of this site are a little upside down right now. I pay for more traffic. We cover the nut, but I'm not seeing anything extra for increased traffic in our current model. From a financial perspective, I was better off on the last server because it was a set monthly fee and extra traffic meant extra revenue. But I'd rather have us open and available on game days and lose that extra bit than have to resource gate people when they want to celebrate or vent. I'm certainly not complaining.

Would it help you if we all clicked on an add banner once and a while?

baja
10-26-2010, 12:18 PM
I would donate but I am building two casitas right now one for a friend and one for me and cash has not been so tight for me in a good long while but on second thought I suppose I could swing a few bucks. What is that Pay Pal donate link again.

The new server is truly wonderful. No crashes on Gameday is heavenly.

Thanks again TJ. You might be the most underrated Bronco fan.

boppool
10-26-2010, 12:19 PM
If we lose to the Niners this weekend, our chance of making playoff is fairly slim.
Why not give the kid a chance to learn? It may not be pretty, but if we can build some momentum for next year, I'd be all for it.

Popps
10-26-2010, 12:26 PM
If we lose to the Niners this weekend, our chance of making playoff is fairly slim.
Why not give the kid a chance to learn? It may not be pretty, but if we can build some momentum for next year, I'd be all for it.

I'll play along...

Why? Because if we spend 2 years developing Tebow, the likely result is that he MIGHT be able to run the offense as well as Orton is RIGHT NOW.

This team has all kinds of problems. Many, maybe even MOST have to do with injuries. The QB spot is NOT one of those problems.

Even if the playoffs are off the table this year, Orton can continue to gain mastery of this system, and we can continue to develop the younger players we have.

Now, fast forward to next season opening day....

We've got Elvis back, a healthy Clady, maybe a healthy Harris, Ayers is back, Dawkins comes back for one more season. Champ is healthy. We've made a few key moves addressing OL and DL needs, and we've drafted 6 more players, 2 in the second round to try to shore up other areas of need.

Sounds a lot different than the injury-depleted mess out there right now, huh?

Now, with all of these players back healthy and the new guys in the fold, optimism may be running high again. So, what... you're going to throw in a guy who's played a few games late in the season instead of the guy who you benched, despite him having Pro Bowl numbers?

I mean, just use your head, folks. This isn't fantasy football. Orton gives the team the best chance to win in the short and medium-term, if not the long term.

After how Kyle has played this year... I can't believe I have to explain this to people.

baja
10-26-2010, 12:31 PM
I'll play along...

Why? Because if we spend 2 years developing Tebow, the likely result is that he MIGHT be able to run the offense as well as Orton is RIGHT NOW.

This team has all kinds of problems. Many, maybe even MOST have to do with injuries. The QB spot is NOT one of those problems.

Even if the playoffs are off the table this year, Orton can continue to gain mastery of this system, and we can continue to develop the younger players we have.

Now, fast forward to next season opening day....

We've got Elvis back, a healthy Clady, maybe a healthy Harris, Ayers is back, Dawkins comes back for one more season. Champ is healthy. We've made a few key moves addressing OL and DL needs, and we've drafted 6 more players, 2 in the second round to try to shore up other areas of need.

Sounds a lot different than the injury-depleted mess out there right now, huh?

Now, with all of these players back healthy and the new guys in the fold, optimism may be running high again. So, what... you're going to throw in a guy who's played a few games late in the season instead of the guy who you benched, despite him having Pro Bowl numbers?

I mean, just use your head, folks. This isn't fantasy football. Orton gives the team the best chance to win in the short and medium-term, if not the long term.

<b>After how Kyle has played this year... I can't believe I have to explain this to people.

I think we can blame it on Chemtrails. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19047

fontaine
10-26-2010, 12:32 PM
That's it. Bench Orton.

That ought to fix the problem with soft OL, no running game and mediocre front 7.

Orton is one of the few players that's playing with everything he's got, and he has the respect of everyone in that franchise.

Get him a damn running game and even a mediocre defense and we went 6-0 last year.

It's not rocket science Josh, you start by not throwing away your picks on useless players like Moreno and playing a running scheme best suited to guys like Clady/Harris/Kuper rather than blindly lumping them into a power blocking scheme they suck at.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 12:32 PM
I mean, just use your head, folks. This isn't fantasy football. Orton gives the team the best chance to win in the short and medium-term, if not the long term.



I agree with this. But the question that I have is "to what end?" Is Orton even going to be on the team next year?

fontaine
10-26-2010, 12:33 PM
You think Tebow had bad mechanics and long wind up in college?

Wait till he plays a few series behind this OL with no running game.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 12:33 PM
...and for that matter, will McDaniels?

Popps
10-26-2010, 12:35 PM
I agree with this. But the question that I have is "to what end?" Is Orton even going to be on the team next year?

You kidding?

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15832953

bendog
10-26-2010, 12:36 PM
You think Tebow had bad mechanics and long wind up in college?

Wait till he plays a few series behind this OL with no running game.

It will be "cutleresque." I still hope that Tebow gets an entire offseason with McDaniels before he is more than an occassional gimmick play.

fontaine
10-26-2010, 12:38 PM
Is Orton even going to be on the team next year?

$5.5 million of Orton's 2011 base salary is guaranteed the minute he signed that two year extension.

At this point he's a safer bet than Josh to be on the team next year!

;)

fontaine
10-26-2010, 12:39 PM
It will be "cutleresque." I still hope that Tebow gets an entire offseason with McDaniels before he is more than an occassional gimmick play.

This is what people don't get. A rookie QB behind a bad OL immediately develops bad habits that become very hard to break.

Right now, Tebow is NOTHING more than a project with a hype machine.

Dagmar
10-26-2010, 12:40 PM
I respect Champ and certainly take him at his word. But what else is he going to say?

MaxBroncos MaxBroncos
He's not. But it's fair to say Bailey scoffed at that notion. RT @deann16: Really though he's not going to say yes to that question imo

cutthemdown
10-26-2010, 12:57 PM
Team stinks so lets replace the one player who has played well? No that would be insane.

broncocalijohn
10-26-2010, 01:05 PM
How hard are you pushing this and why?

to be wrong about a QB. He has thrown zero passes. McD should have had him in during the 4th Quarter. Almost like he wanted Orton to get hurt to have the excuse of putting him in. Until McD gets Tebow to actually be able to throw some passes, I dont think giving him the extra week makes a difference. I want game experience.

Sir_Robin
10-26-2010, 01:18 PM
Interesting that so many of the no's indicate the weak line as a reason to delay putting him in. I'd rather have a mobile quarterback with this line than Kyle Statue Orton. Also, after the jets game it seemed the consensus was that Tebow helped open up the run game with his elusiveness. In this thread the lack of run game is being offered as reason to keep him out.

Broncoman13
10-26-2010, 01:34 PM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/10/26/tim-tebow-meets-the-british-press/5637/



That's the 2nd time in as many weeks I have seen a quote like that.

Saw similar quotes from Orton all last year and all of camp. Seems to me like he started most of them games too.

Ask yourself one simple question. When we're down in the 4th Quarter do you feel like Orton can bring us back? Look at the Chefs game last year. Look at the Ravens game or the Jets game. He panics and something always goes wrong. I don't hate the guy. Hell, I don't think we'd do better with Tebow for the remainder of the year... but I do know that Tebow is the future if McD is going to stick around. And if McD is let go then Tebow may well be a wasted draft pick.

fontaine
10-26-2010, 01:41 PM
Saw similar quotes from Orton all last year and all of camp. Seems to me like he started most of them games too.

Ask yourself one simple question. When we're down in the 4th Quarter do you feel like Orton can bring us back? Look at the Chefs game last year. Look at the Ravens game or the Jets game. He panics and something always goes wrong. I don't hate the guy. Hell, I don't think we'd do better with Tebow for the remainder of the year... but I do know that Tebow is the future if McD is going to stick around. And if McD is let go then Tebow may well be a wasted draft pick.

Hell yes. Go back last year and watch how the offense completely changed when Orton, ****ed up ankle and all had to come off the bench and rescue the team from Simms.

Go back to the Jet game where we were right in it until the end.

And for that matter, that question has zero relevance given our QB situation.

I mean what, Orton doesn't give you confidence in mounting a come back and Tebow does?

Hilarious!

lostknight
10-26-2010, 01:47 PM
Everyone seems trapped by four out of the first five games, where Orton threw well. His completion ratio is now down around 40% for the last two games, and he had a very iffy game prior to these last two as well. The risk here is that Orton's regressing to his statistical average. If so, given our D, and our lack of a running game (which lead to more pressure on Orton), he might be folding.

That is the only reason we might see Tebow this year. McDaniel's knows that he has to win, and win big. Orton is a better choice from what we know today.

fontaine
10-26-2010, 01:47 PM
Some people are never ****ing happy.

To them, well, I hope you get your wish and Tebow starts so that you can stay unhappy.

We've gone from a noodle armed QB with zero leadership in Griese, to a one trick pony who could barely throw the ball on the one rollout play he was any good at, to a whiny, pouty prima donna who had a bigger ego than Shanahan.

To a team first QB who is executing the offense great with no running game and a poor OL.

The second Tebow lines up in his rookie season and has to make a presnap read, five step drop and pass the ball in a foot wide window with his windup and guys like Walton/Clady springing free blockers, then maybe the penny will drop.

elsid13
10-26-2010, 01:57 PM
On that note, what do you do with Clady ? Do you move him to RT when Tebow takes over ? That is a huge amount of money to pay for a Left tackle when the RT is your BS Tackle.

You don't move Clady. 95% of NFL pass rusher line up at the RE or ROLD. So you put your best lineman at the LT to stop them.

Drek
10-26-2010, 02:07 PM
I'm still mulling it over. I'm leaning on approve for this reason:

I think Josh is probably a lame duck right now, and that the only way Josh can turn that around is to inject a new spark plug into the offense. I think the team would react negatively to the move initially, but that Tebow would win them over. I think Tebow would probably take ownership of the team in a way that Orton simply can't. Orton's contract nueters him in this regard. This isn't his team and everybody knows it. So why continue to pretend?

No, I think now that I've fleshed it out a little bit, not only would I approve, but I think it's probably the right thing to do for the good of the franchise. I hate to throw Orton under the bus like that - I really like the guy. But Josh has not offered him a long term contract for a reason, and that reason is that this is Tebow's team. So why delay?

It isn't Orton's contract that nueters him, its his play.

I've been supportive of Orton from day one, but everything I've said has come true. I told people prior to the '09 season that he'd do well in this system with this coach. He has. I also told people prior to this season that he's going to prove himself a top 10 QB, just not a top 5 QB, and to win without an elite defense in this league requires a top 5 QB. So far we've seen him have some big games but generally he's coming up one big play short of producing the win for us.

Orton is a leader in that he shows the lunch pail attitude you want out of all your players. But he doesn't instill the same "this game is ours, we just have to take it" mindset that iconic QBs like Elway instilled in their teammates. He just can't because talk is only half of that equation. The other half is making a play so transcendent that the guys you share a locker room with are in as much disbelief as the opposition that you pulled their asses out of the fire and snatched victory from the jaws of defeat.

Now Tim Tebow just might be that kind of QB, but I don't think he's ready for prime time just yet, and neither is the OL. To me you've got to have Orton finish out the season and show what he's capable of, letting the young OL get healthy and start to find its way. If Orton somehow rewrites his stars and becomes a truly elite QB then you still roll with him, but benching him now scuttles any trade value you have all for the reward of exposing Tebow to failure and injury before either he or the OL is ready for it.

The only real argument for starting Tebow this season (other than Orton getting hurt, and even then we should strongly consider giving Quinn a shot first) is if McDaniels feels like Bowlen is going to fire him at the end of the year. It would be an entirely self serving move to the long term detriment of the Broncos and Tim Tebow, with the hopes that Tebow shows enough of a flash to keep McDaniels employed for just one more season where anything can happen in the NFL. I don't think Bowlen is that rash of an owner or McDaniels that rash of a head coach.

Simple fact is, McDaniels wouldn't have drafted Tebow if he didn't know that his job was safe through 2011 short of a complete ****ting of the bed, which this team won't do. This is not a 4-12 team. This is a roughly .500 team that has had a ton of bad injuries and a brutal opening schedule. The season will equilibrate itself, the Broncos will play better down the stretch against easy competition (giving people false perception of McDaniels "fixing" that problem) and McDaniels will go into 2011 knowing that he has to go big or go home in a contract year.

bendog
10-26-2010, 02:11 PM
Stop picking on Kyle. He's playing on Sundays and hasn't had a drink since Friday morning. He's prolly DYING out there.

elsid13
10-26-2010, 02:14 PM
Stop picking on Kyle. He's playing on Sundays and hasn't had a drink since Friday morning. He's prolly DYING out there.

Post like this, will quickly get you risen in the SuperFan rankings.

HAT
10-26-2010, 02:14 PM
Now Tim Tebow just might be that kind of QB, but I don't think he's ready for prime time just yet, and neither is the OL. To me you've got to have Orton finish out the season and show what he's capable of, letting the young OL get healthy and start to find its way. If Orton somehow rewrites his stars and becomes a truly elite QB then you still roll with him, but benching him now scuttles any trade value you have all for the reward of exposing Tebow to failure and injury before either he or the OL is ready for it.

Exactly. Orton will have pretty good trade value with the numbers he is going to put up this year. No sense throwing that away...Even when / if Denver is mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, I'd still roll with Orton just to stat whore him.

IHaveALight
10-26-2010, 02:19 PM
If we win in London, no.
If we get blown out again, yes.

baja
10-26-2010, 02:20 PM
Everyone seems trapped by four out of the first five games, where Orton threw well. His completion ratio is now down around 40% for the last two games, and he had a very iffy game prior to these last two as well. The risk here is that Orton's regressing to his statistical average. If so, given our D, and our lack of a running game (which lead to more pressure on Orton), he might be folding.

That is the only reason we might see Tebow this year. McDaniel's knows that he has to win, and win big. Orton is a better choice from what we know today.

I just figured out your middle name, "in the"

Lost in the knight, I dubb thee.

bronclvr
10-26-2010, 02:23 PM
I just figured out your middle name, "in the"

Lost in the knight, I dubb thee.


LOL Hilarious! :yayaya: ^5

Are you Dortoh reincarnate?

Broncoman13
10-26-2010, 02:25 PM
It isn't Orton's contract that nueters him, its his play.

I've been supportive of Orton from day one, but everything I've said has come true. I told people prior to the '09 season that he'd do well in this system with this coach. He has. I also told people prior to this season that he's going to prove himself a top 10 QB, just not a top 5 QB, and to win without an elite defense in this league requires a top 5 QB. So far we've seen him have some big games but generally he's coming up one big play short of producing the win for us.

Orton is a leader in that he shows the lunch pail attitude you want out of all your players. But he doesn't instill the same "this game is ours, we just have to take it" mindset that iconic QBs like Elway instilled in their teammates. He just can't because talk is only half of that equation. The other half is making a play so transcendent that the guys you share a locker room with are in as much disbelief as the opposition that you pulled their asses out of the fire and snatched victory from the jaws of defeat.

Now Tim Tebow just might be that kind of QB, but I don't think he's ready for prime time just yet, and neither is the OL. To me you've got to have Orton finish out the season and show what he's capable of, letting the young OL get healthy and start to find its way. If Orton somehow rewrites his stars and becomes a truly elite QB then you still roll with him, but benching him now scuttles any trade value you have all for the reward of exposing Tebow to failure and injury before either he or the OL is ready for it.

The only real argument for starting Tebow this season (other than Orton getting hurt, and even then we should strongly consider giving Quinn a shot first) is if McDaniels feels like Bowlen is going to fire him at the end of the year. It would be an entirely self serving move to the long term detriment of the Broncos and Tim Tebow, with the hopes that Tebow shows enough of a flash to keep McDaniels employed for just one more season where anything can happen in the NFL. I don't think Bowlen is that rash of an owner or McDaniels that rash of a head coach.

Simple fact is, McDaniels wouldn't have drafted Tebow if he didn't know that his job was safe through 2011 short of a complete ****ting of the bed, which this team won't do. This is not a 4-12 team. This is a roughly .500 team that has had a ton of bad injuries and a brutal opening schedule. The season will equilibrate itself, the Broncos will play better down the stretch against easy competition (giving people false perception of McDaniels "fixing" that problem) and McDaniels will go into 2011 knowing that he has to go big or go home in a contract year.

Like I said, I don't think Tebow would do better than Orton, not this year anyway. But what happens if McD loses another 6 games this year? We lose to San Fran this weekend then what? 6 more losses seems a given! The point I was making is Tebow is a McD guy. McD goes and the chances of bringing in a coach that wants to hitch his wagon to Tebow are minimal. Tebow in the game buys McD time...time he may not otherwise have. And if Tebow shows promise the fans have patience. If he shows no promise we are right back where we were 10 years ago... minus a running system that made a lot of average RBs look good.

bronclvr
10-26-2010, 02:27 PM
It isn't Orton's contract that nueters him, its his play.

I've been supportive of Orton from day one, but everything I've said has come true. I told people prior to the '09 season that he'd do well in this system with this coach. He has. I also told people prior to this season that he's going to prove himself a top 10 QB, just not a top 5 QB, and to win without an elite defense in this league requires a top 5 QB. So far we've seen him have some big games but generally he's coming up one big play short of producing the win for us.

Orton is a leader in that he shows the lunch pail attitude you want out of all your players. But he doesn't instill the same "this game is ours, we just have to take it" mindset that iconic QBs like Elway instilled in their teammates. He just can't because talk is only half of that equation. The other half is making a play so transcendent that the guys you share a locker room with are in as much disbelief as the opposition that you pulled their asses out of the fire and snatched victory from the jaws of defeat.

Now Tim Tebow just might be that kind of QB, but I don't think he's ready for prime time just yet, and neither is the OL. To me you've got to have Orton finish out the season and show what he's capable of, letting the young OL get healthy and start to find its way. If Orton somehow rewrites his stars and becomes a truly elite QB then you still roll with him, but benching him now scuttles any trade value you have all for the reward of exposing Tebow to failure and injury before either he or the OL is ready for it.

The only real argument for starting Tebow this season (other than Orton getting hurt, and even then we should strongly consider giving Quinn a shot first) is if McDaniels feels like Bowlen is going to fire him at the end of the year. It would be an entirely self serving move to the long term detriment of the Broncos and Tim Tebow, with the hopes that Tebow shows enough of a flash to keep McDaniels employed for just one more season where anything can happen in the NFL. I don't think Bowlen is that rash of an owner or McDaniels that rash of a head coach.

Simple fact is, McDaniels wouldn't have drafted Tebow if he didn't know that his job was safe through 2011 short of a complete ****ting of the bed, which this team won't do. This is not a 4-12 team. This is a roughly .500 team that has had a ton of bad injuries and a brutal opening schedule. The season will equilibrate itself, the Broncos will play better down the stretch against easy competition (giving people false perception of McDaniels "fixing" that problem) and McDaniels will go into 2011 knowing that he has to go big or go home in a contract year.



Great, well thought out Post-^5

Rohirrim
10-26-2010, 02:27 PM
It isn't Orton's contract that nueters him, its his play.

I've been supportive of Orton from day one, but everything I've said has come true. I told people prior to the '09 season that he'd do well in this system with this coach. He has. I also told people prior to this season that he's going to prove himself a top 10 QB, just not a top 5 QB, and to win without an elite defense in this league requires a top 5 QB. So far we've seen him have some big games but generally he's coming up one big play short of producing the win for us.

Orton is a leader in that he shows the lunch pail attitude you want out of all your players. But he doesn't instill the same "this game is ours, we just have to take it" mindset that iconic QBs like Elway instilled in their teammates. He just can't because talk is only half of that equation. The other half is making a play so transcendent that the guys you share a locker room with are in as much disbelief as the opposition that you pulled their asses out of the fire and snatched victory from the jaws of defeat.

Now Tim Tebow just might be that kind of QB, but I don't think he's ready for prime time just yet, and neither is the OL. To me you've got to have Orton finish out the season and show what he's capable of, letting the young OL get healthy and start to find its way. If Orton somehow rewrites his stars and becomes a truly elite QB then you still roll with him, but benching him now scuttles any trade value you have all for the reward of exposing Tebow to failure and injury before either he or the OL is ready for it.

The only real argument for starting Tebow this season (other than Orton getting hurt, and even then we should strongly consider giving Quinn a shot first) is if McDaniels feels like Bowlen is going to fire him at the end of the year. It would be an entirely self serving move to the long term detriment of the Broncos and Tim Tebow, with the hopes that Tebow shows enough of a flash to keep McDaniels employed for just one more season where anything can happen in the NFL. I don't think Bowlen is that rash of an owner or McDaniels that rash of a head coach.

Simple fact is, McDaniels wouldn't have drafted Tebow if he didn't know that his job was safe through 2011 short of a complete ****ting of the bed, which this team won't do. This is not a 4-12 team. This is a roughly .500 team that has had a ton of bad injuries and a brutal opening schedule. The season will equilibrate itself, the Broncos will play better down the stretch against easy competition (giving people false perception of McDaniels "fixing" that problem) and McDaniels will go into 2011 knowing that he has to go big or go home in a contract year.

Which is why I support post #47. ;D

baja
10-26-2010, 02:31 PM
It isn't Orton's contract that nueters him, its his play.

I've been supportive of Orton from day one, but everything I've said has come true. I told people prior to the '09 season that he'd do well in this system with this coach. He has. I also told people prior to this season that he's going to prove himself a top 10 QB, just not a top 5 QB, and to win without an elite defense in this league requires a top 5 QB. So far we've seen him have some big games but generally he's coming up one big play short of producing the win for us.

Orton is a leader in that he shows the lunch pail attitude you want out of all your players. But he doesn't instill the same "this game is ours, we just have to take it" mindset that iconic QBs like Elway instilled in their teammates. He just can't because talk is only half of that equation. The other half is making a play so transcendent that the guys you share a locker room with are in as much disbelief as the opposition that you pulled their asses out of the fire and snatched victory from the jaws of defeat.

Now Tim Tebow just might be that kind of QB, but I don't think he's ready for prime time just yet, and neither is the OL. To me you've got to have Orton finish out the season and show what he's capable of, letting the young OL get healthy and start to find its way. If Orton somehow rewrites his stars and becomes a truly elite QB then you still roll with him, but benching him now scuttles any trade value you have all for the reward of exposing Tebow to failure and injury before either he or the OL is ready for it.

The only real argument for starting Tebow this season (other than Orton getting hurt, and even then we should strongly consider giving Quinn a shot first) is if McDaniels feels like Bowlen is going to fire him at the end of the year. It would be an entirely self serving move to the long term detriment of the Broncos and Tim Tebow, with the hopes that Tebow shows enough of a flash to keep McDaniels employed for just one more season where anything can happen in the NFL. I don't think Bowlen is that rash of an owner or McDaniels that rash of a head coach.

Simple fact is, McDaniels wouldn't have drafted Tebow if he didn't know that his job was safe through 2011 short of a complete ****ting of the bed, which this team won't do. This is not a 4-12 team. This is a roughly .500 team that has had a ton of bad injuries and a brutal opening schedule. The season will equilibrate itself, the Broncos will play better down the stretch against easy competition (giving people false perception of McDaniels "fixing" that problem) and McDaniels will go into 2011 knowing that he has to go big or go home in a contract year.

This post should be where the video is. And keep it there until people wake the hell up.

ColoradoDarin
10-26-2010, 02:32 PM
Wow, it's like Groundhog Day at the OM.....

baja
10-26-2010, 02:33 PM
Stop picking on Kyle. He's playing on Sundays and hasn't had a drink since Friday morning. He's prolly DYING out there.

At first I was glad to see you back than I read your posts
and realized you disease had progressed to the wet brain stage.

Mile High Shack
10-26-2010, 02:34 PM
Wow, it's like Groundhog Day at the OM.....

we just replace Cutler with Tebow and Plummer with Orton

bendog
10-26-2010, 02:38 PM
At first I was glad to see you back than I read your posts
and realized you disease had progressed to the wet brain stage.

well, baja, you've progressed to homer stage, and you never knew much about the game, but I don't hold it against you personally, and won't flame you.

Drek
10-26-2010, 02:42 PM
Like I said, I don't think Tebow would do better than Orton, not this year anyway. But what happens if McD loses another 6 games this year? We lose to San Fran this weekend then what? 6 more losses seems a given! The point I was making is Tebow is a McD guy. McD goes and the chances of bringing in a coach that wants to hitch his wagon to Tebow are minimal. Tebow in the game buys McD time...time he may not otherwise have. And if Tebow shows promise the fans have patience. If he shows no promise we are right back where we were 10 years ago... minus a running system that made a lot of average RBs look good.

And like the edit I attached on the bottom, I don't think McDaniels even drafts Tebow if his performance this year in any way impacts his job security.

We could go 2-14 this year and he'll be back. He's been making solid personnel moves in the off-seasons while being financially frugal, he's under contract, and the 2011 season will be up in the balance probably almost right up to the start of camp if it happens at all.

Bowlen is not going to pay someone to not work for him again just after getting out from under paying Shanahan simply because of one very bad season. He's going to let McDaniels play out at least 2011. Also, Bowlen doesn't need to see Tebow in games to view him as the future of this franchise. Its his team, he knows what Tebow was drafted as (a longer term project) and he can go see the progress every day he feels like it.

What wouldn't surprise me, if he do have a very bad end of this season, is some upper level "brain trust" types brought in to the organization. Most likely #7. Elway has been more involved with the organization the last few years than he ever was after retiring and he has given Tebow what borders on effusive praise. His involvement would restore faith to the fan base and at the same time he's got ownership/management experience he could bring to the table as a checks and balances guy for McDaniels in some capacity.

I personally think Bowlen is looking for an end game strategy where Elway ends up owning the team when he passes on, if I recall correctly he's even made comments that none of his kids are interested in owning the team, and there isn't much better way than to get Elway in-house early. Should McDaniels lay an egg in 2011 its a perfect opportunity for Elway and Bowlen to go find a new HC together as well, further bringing Elway into the fold.

baja
10-26-2010, 02:43 PM
well, baja, you've progressed to homer stage, and you never knew much about the game, but I don't hold it against you personally, and won't flame you.

Well I don't hold your handy cap against you so I guess we are both swell guys.

TheReverend
10-26-2010, 02:49 PM
Exactly. Orton will have pretty good trade value with the numbers he is going to put up this year. No sense throwing that away...Even when / if Denver is mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, I'd still roll with Orton just to stat whore him.

Matt Cassell ruined that opportunity for us, imo.

Swedish Extrovert
10-26-2010, 02:54 PM
http://www.pmcaregivers.com/images/depends5.jpg

Taco John
10-26-2010, 03:04 PM
I'm not convinced as so many here seem to be that Josh will automatically get a third year just out of principle. I mean, he's lost by blow-outs at home to all of our division rivals:

SD 32 @ Den 3

KC 44 @ Den 24

Oak 59 @ Den 14


I'm not saying that Bowlen is absolutely going to pull the trigger, but he's got to be considering his options right now.

Here is who we have left on the schedule:

SF (in London)
KC @ Den
@ SD
STL @ Den
Den @ KC
Den @ Ari
Den @ Oak
Hou @ Den
SD @ Den

baja
10-26-2010, 03:09 PM
I'm not convinced as so many here seem to be that Josh will automatically get a third year just out of principle. I mean, he's lost by blow-outs at home to all of our division rivals:

SD 32 @ Den 3

KC 44 @ Den 24

Oak 59 @ Den 14


I'm not saying that Bowlen is absolutely going to pull the trigger, but he's got to be considering his options right now.

Here is who we have left on the schedule:

SF (in London)
KC @ Den
@ SD
STL @ Den
Den @ KC
Den @ Ari
Den @ Oak
Hou @ Den
SD @ Den

I will say I am miffed at the disappearance of our home field advantage (was some thing like 750%) it all turned around the last few years with Shanny and continues today.

Mile High Shack
10-26-2010, 03:11 PM
I'm not convinced as so many here seem to be that Josh will automatically get a third year just out of principle. I mean, he's lost by blow-outs at home to all of our division rivals:

SD 32 @ Den 3

KC 44 @ Den 24

Oak 59 @ Den 14


I'm not saying that Bowlen is absolutely going to pull the trigger, but he's got to be considering his options right now.

Here is who we have left on the schedule:

SF (in London)
KC @ Den
@ SD
STL @ Den
Den @ KC
Den @ Ari
Den @ Oak
Hou @ Den
SD @ Den

that schedule kinda sucks, Arizona appears to be easiest game left

Taco John
10-26-2010, 03:13 PM
that schedule kinda sucks, Arizona appears to be easiest game left


We need to win 6 of the next 9 to reach .500 and break even on the season.

Mile High Shack
10-26-2010, 03:15 PM
We need to win 6 of the next 9 to reach .500 and break even on the season.

unless this last game was our "turning point" then I don't see that happening.

baja
10-26-2010, 03:17 PM
We need to win 6 of the next 9 to reach .500 and break even on the season.

Or we could win one more than that and maybe win the division.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 03:18 PM
unless this last game was our "turning point" then I don't see that happening.

That would be amazing if it did. I don't count it out yet. We went 6-0 at one point in time, and I honestly believe we can beat every single one of those teams despite this latest debacle.

bendog
10-26-2010, 03:19 PM
If they lose in London, I think they finish out with around two more wins. The question then would be whether the fans rebel. If Bowlen fires McDaniels, then not only does he have to hire a guy to pay during a likely workstoppage, along with McDaniels and Shanny's last 3.5 mil, but the new guy has to make a decision on Tebow based on what little exposure Tebow will have had. That's why i think Bowlen really doesn't have much choice but to keep McDaniels for a third year at least, and let Tebow get those season tix renewed.

Maximus
10-26-2010, 03:20 PM
Put his overrated @$$ in the game already... I want to watch the destruction of Tebow and the fall of McDonkey

Taco John
10-26-2010, 03:21 PM
That would be amazing if it did. I don't count it out yet. We went 6-0 at one point in time, and I honestly believe we can beat every single one of those teams despite this latest debacle.


Hate to quote myself, but I wanted to make a point about this bolded section. If I'm Bowlen, this is the measuring stick that I use for Josh. There isn't a single team that we face on our schedule that even with our injuries we shouldn't be able to compete with. I'm not saying we should win out or anything. I'm just saying we should be able to compete with every one of these teams and put in a strong, competitive showing.

Mile High Shack
10-26-2010, 03:24 PM
Hate to quote myself, but I wanted to make a point about this bolded section. If I'm Bowlen, this is the measuring stick that I use for Josh. There isn't a single team that we face on our schedule that even with our injuries we shouldn't be able to compete with. I'm not saying we should win out or anything. I'm just saying we should be able to compete with every one of these teams and put in a strong, competitive showing.

I agree, seriously, no reason why we can't, we have proven we can compete with top tier teams....this is Josh's turning point in his career, these next 9 games

Chris
10-26-2010, 03:25 PM
It isn't Orton's contract that nueters him, its his play.

I've been supportive of Orton from day one, but everything I've said has come true. I told people prior to the '09 season that he'd do well in this system with this coach. He has. I also told people prior to this season that he's going to prove himself a top 10 QB, just not a top 5 QB, and to win without an elite defense in this league requires a top 5 QB. So far we've seen him have some big games but generally he's coming up one big play short of producing the win for us.

Orton is a leader in that he shows the lunch pail attitude you want out of all your players. But he doesn't instill the same "this game is ours, we just have to take it" mindset that iconic QBs like Elway instilled in their teammates. He just can't because talk is only half of that equation. The other half is making a play so transcendent that the guys you share a locker room with are in as much disbelief as the opposition that you pulled their asses out of the fire and snatched victory from the jaws of defeat.

Now Tim Tebow just might be that kind of QB, but I don't think he's ready for prime time just yet, and neither is the OL. To me you've got to have Orton finish out the season and show what he's capable of, letting the young OL get healthy and start to find its way. If Orton somehow rewrites his stars and becomes a truly elite QB then you still roll with him, but benching him now scuttles any trade value you have all for the reward of exposing Tebow to failure and injury before either he or the OL is ready for it.

The only real argument for starting Tebow this season (other than Orton getting hurt, and even then we should strongly consider giving Quinn a shot first) is if McDaniels feels like Bowlen is going to fire him at the end of the year. It would be an entirely self serving move to the long term detriment of the Broncos and Tim Tebow, with the hopes that Tebow shows enough of a flash to keep McDaniels employed for just one more season where anything can happen in the NFL. I don't think Bowlen is that rash of an owner or McDaniels that rash of a head coach.

Simple fact is, McDaniels wouldn't have drafted Tebow if he didn't know that his job was safe through 2011 short of a complete ****ting of the bed, which this team won't do. This is not a 4-12 team. This is a roughly .500 team that has had a ton of bad injuries and a brutal opening schedule. The season will equilibrate itself, the Broncos will play better down the stretch against easy competition (giving people false perception of McDaniels "fixing" that problem) and McDaniels will go into 2011 knowing that he has to go big or go home in a contract year.

Your posts are such a breath of fresh air man. You are the Jon Stewart (minus the humour, no offense) to this place's bipolar insanity. You're the difference between this being a bunch of loud conversation and actually having a reason to seek analysis / opinion on the mane. I'd say you're almost alone in this regard since you seem to hardly get emotional about it.

baja
10-26-2010, 03:32 PM
If they lose in London, I think they finish out with around two more wins. The question then would be whether the fans rebel. If Bowlen fires McDaniels, then not only does he have to hire a guy to pay during a likely workstoppage, along with McDaniels and Shanny's last 3.5 mil, but the new guy has to make a decision on Tebow based on what little exposure Tebow will have had. That's why i think Bowlen really doesn't have much choice but to keep McDaniels for a third year at least, and let Tebow get those season tix renewed.

I think you are right and I'm sorry I called you Patch OK? Can I have a little kiss now.

Seriously Patch was a first class a hole and you are not. Sorry ben guess we are all a little frustrated. I think it is luderquist (sp) to talk of firing McD now and the ones that are those are the ones that don't have a clue about the game.

TailgateNut
10-26-2010, 03:34 PM
If they lose in London, I think they finish out with around two more wins. The question then would be whether the fans rebel. If Bowlen fires McDaniels, then not only does he have to hire a guy to pay during a likely workstoppage, along with McDaniels and Shanny's last 3.5 mil, but the new guy has to make a decision on Tebow based on what little exposure Tebow will have had. That's why i think Bowlen really doesn't have much choice but to keep McDaniels for a third year at least, and let Tebow get those season tix renewed.

You mean get Tebownites to buy the canceled season tix.

baja
10-26-2010, 03:36 PM
Hate to quote myself, but I wanted to make a point about this bolded section. If I'm Bowlen, this is the measuring stick that I use for Josh. There isn't a single team that we face on our schedule that even with our injuries we shouldn't be able to compete with. I'm not saying we should win out or anything. I'm just saying we should be able to compete with every one of these teams and put in a strong, competitive showing.

That's a very fair expectation and I agree completely.

ScottXray
10-26-2010, 03:51 PM
On that note, what do you do with Clady ? Do you move him to RT when Tebow takes over ? That is a huge amount of money to pay for a Left tackle when the RT is your BS Tackle.

Clady has been playing hurt this year, so it is obvious that he hasn't played at the level he did two years ago. Frankly he also didn't play at that level LAST year. Yes he made the probowl, but he regressed last year (probably due to scheme and coaching changes) but also cause he didn't perform as well. I doubt that he will do any better on the right, at least until he is completely healthy...and that won't be this year. So I'd say, no he doesn't move, (which again throws our O-line into flux again) .

Making Tebow the starter just to try to genearate a spark sounds like Shannys Cutler move all over again, and will piss off most of the team. Then mixing up the O-line late in the season would have exactly the WRONG result and counteract anything good that might have happened.

This crap only happens if McD has his heart set on actually getting fired, and slinking out of town (and maybe the Nfl). Of course that would make a lot of people here happy. It wouldn't result in any more wins (the supposed purpose of the changes).

Tombstone RJ
10-26-2010, 03:56 PM
Until the Broncos are mathmatically eliminated from the playoffs, there's no reason to go with Tebow as the starter.

And even then, you let Orton finish the season unless he's injured.

strafen
10-26-2010, 03:58 PM
How hard are you pushing this and why?Why are you questioning even the owner of the website what he should be posting?
Is that something he needed to run by the chief of the fan police for approval?
You've got some balls, dude.

strafen
10-26-2010, 04:05 PM
Until the Broncos are mathmatically eliminated from the playoffs, there's no reason to go with Tebow as the starter.

Why?
Orton guys, Orton is a lousy freaking QB. Period. End of story!
Get Tebow in there at once.

Let's see what he can do and start working with him rightr now and have him that much far ahead for next season.
If anybody here thinks we have a better chance to win with Orton, you've got another thing coming.

Orton has proven he can not play from a deficit.
For Orton to win, he needs a stout defense, a solid OL, a great running game, and a very good special team, and we're short of offering him that.

The guy needs help to win. He can't pull it off ala Elway, ala Favre, ala Marino, ala Montana.
He's a lost cause.

Please stop supporting this bum. You guys have brought the standards by which a QB is measured in Denver to a new low.
Kyle freakin' Orton!
Give me a freakin' break!

Popps
10-26-2010, 04:07 PM
Your posts are such a breath of fresh air man. You are the Jon Stewart (minus the humour, no offense) to this place's bipolar insanity. You're the difference between this being a bunch of loud conversation and actually having a reason to seek analysis / opinion on the mane. I'd say you're almost alone in this regard since you seem to hardly get emotional about it.

I agree. Drek is one of the reasons I wish we had a reverse-ignore feature around here. Something that highlighted posts by people who you've put in your list.

In fact, I'd be fine if you could just put everyone on ignore, and "un-mute" people who showed themselves worthy. That would be great, actually.

Tombstone RJ
10-26-2010, 04:07 PM
Why?

Because he still gives the Broncos the best chance to win, you moron.

baja
10-26-2010, 04:08 PM
Why?
Orton guys, Orton is a lousy freaking QB. Period. End of story!
Get Tebow in there at once.

Let's see what he can do and start working with him rightr now and have him that much far ahead for next season.
If anybody here thinks we have a better chance to win with Orton, you've got another thing coming.

Orton has proven he can not play from a deficit.
For Orton to win, he needs a stout defense, a solid OL, a great running game, and a very good special team, and we're short of offering him that.

The guy needs help to win.<b> He can't pull it off ala Elway, ala Favre, ala Marino, ala Montana.</b>
He's a lost cause.

Please stop supporting this bum. You guys have brought the standards by which a QB is measured in Denver to a new low.
Kyle freakin' Orton!
Give me a freakin' break!

So Kyle is not Elway, Favre, Marino, Montana, what a bum...

Drek
10-26-2010, 04:23 PM
Hate to quote myself, but I wanted to make a point about this bolded section. If I'm Bowlen, this is the measuring stick that I use for Josh. There isn't a single team that we face on our schedule that even with our injuries we shouldn't be able to compete with. I'm not saying we should win out or anything. I'm just saying we should be able to compete with every one of these teams and put in a strong, competitive showing.

Yes Taco, that is the X factor in all of this.

We have a legitimate chance to beat any of those teams. I said before this weekend that I'm expecting something between 6-4 and 8-2 to finish the season. All this past weekend means is that my expectations are now 6-3 to 8-1.

If we come close to losing out then Bowlen might consider a coaching change, but even then I'm not sure he would. Bowlen is a realist. He knows how plagued with injuries we've been. The only way McDaniels is not back for 2011 is if its clear he's lost the players.

That said, if he doesn't get us back up near .500 to end the season I wouldn't be surprised if some moves are made to re-energize the fanbase (the Elway example I gave previously) and possibly even take some personnel decisions off McDaniels' plate (most notably the coaching staff decisions).

Maybe Bill Parcells. He has taken a leave of absence from the Dolphins and has said its because he's taught Sporano and Ireland all he can teach them. He also is the guy who when asked about Tebow said "he's probably not a top 5 pick, but he's definitely a top 10 pick". We're already putting a 3-4 in place. If he wants to go to another organization and work another quick turnaround this is the place for him to do it.

Drek
10-26-2010, 04:26 PM
Why?


Because Tebow isn't ready, the OL isn't ready, and the single major reason McDaniels should lose his job is if he loses the players. That will definitely happen if he replaces a solid vet QB like Orton with Tebow mid-season.

In the off-season its a new day and he can make personnel changes. But in the middle of the season you can't just tug the carpet out from under a vet who is generally performing and not lose the faith of all the rest of the vets.

Houshyamama
10-26-2010, 04:39 PM
No ****ing way.

At this point you are all thinking, how could it get any worse?

I'll tell you how, throw Tebow in there... and it will get worse. Much, much worse.

Rohirrim
10-26-2010, 04:39 PM
Because Tebow isn't ready, the OL isn't ready, and the single major reason McDaniels should lose his job is if he loses the players. That will definitely happen if he replaces a solid vet QB like Orton with Tebow mid-season.

In the off-season its a new day and he can make personnel changes. But in the middle of the season you can't just tug the carpet out from under a vet who is generally performing and not lose the faith of all the rest of the vets.

Which is why he didn't put Tebow in Sunday.

baja
10-26-2010, 04:54 PM
Which is why he didn't put Tebow in Sunday.

Exactly. If he put anyone it would have been Quinn and that to save kyle from an injury in a game that was hopelessly lose by the fourth quarter.

Popps
10-26-2010, 05:07 PM
It's hard to tell if this thread is a level or not.

TailgateNut
10-26-2010, 05:21 PM
Why?
Orton guys, Orton is a lousy freaking QB. Period. End of story!
Get Tebow in there at once.

Let's see what he can do and start working with him rightr now and have him that much far ahead for next season.
If anybody here thinks we have a better chance to win with Orton, you've got another thing coming.

Orton has proven he can not play from a deficit.
For Orton to win, he needs a stout defense, a solid OL, a great running game, and a very good special team, and we're short of offering him that.

The guy needs help to win. He can't pull it off ala Elway, ala Favre, ala Marino, ala Montana.
He's a lost cause.

Please stop supporting this bum. You guys have brought the standards by which a QB is measured in Denver to a new low.
Kyle freakin' Orton!
Give me a freakin' break!

Where woulld you like that? Leg, jaw, neck?

frerottenextelway
10-26-2010, 05:23 PM
It might hurt our playoff run.

strafen
10-26-2010, 05:28 PM
Because he still gives the Broncos the best chance to win, you moron.

You're supporting Orton and you call me a moron?
Now, that's freakin' funny. Way too funny! ROFL! LOL

TailgateNut
10-26-2010, 05:29 PM
You're supporting Orton and you call me a moron?
Now, that's freakin' funny. Way too funny! ROFL! LOL


Take your Adopt-a-dude and get a room!

strafen
10-26-2010, 05:33 PM
Take your Adopt-a-dude and get a room!

Relax. Your lovely headcoach just got exposed. The clock is ticking.
It's just a matter of time before you go into some massive depression.

:wave: :strong: Ha!

baja
10-26-2010, 05:35 PM
Relax. Your lovely headcoach just got exposed. The clock is ticking.
It's just a matter of time before you go into some massive depression.

:wave: :strong: Ha!

What are you observations exactly as to how he was exposed

strafen
10-26-2010, 05:41 PM
What are you observations exactly as to how he was exposedWhen it's Raiders week, and we're palying at home, it is inexcusable to have a team perform the way we did.
That was pathetic. Raiders week alone should bring the best of our team.

Now, that's just that. It actually goes back a little further, from the time Mike Nolan left, Dennison, Turner, etc... it's a matter of time before those dumb decisions come to bite you in the ass.
Not surprisingly, our OL (Dennison) can't pass block, run block, or just block. Our running game (Turner) is the wrost I've ever seen. Our defense (Mike Nolan) got 59 points and got ran all over the Raiders.
Most of these, aside from the 59 points, hve been a common occurrence.
This team is far worse than last year.
It all falls on the HC. It's his team and players right now, it is his own system both on offense and defense.

baja
10-26-2010, 05:45 PM
When it's Raiders week, and we're palying at home, it is inexcusable to have a team perform the way we did.
That was pathetic. Raiders week alone should bring the best of our team.

Now, that's just that. It actually goes back a little further, from the time Mike Nolan left, Dennison, Turner, etc... it's a matter of time before those dumb decisions come to bite you in the ass.
Not surprisingly, our OL (Dennison) can't pass block, run block, or just block. Our running game (Turner) is the wrost I've ever seen. Our defense (Mike Nolan) got 59 points and got ran all over the Raiders.
Most of these, aside from the 59 points, hve been a common occurrence.
This team is far worse than last year.
It all falls on the HC. It's his team and players right now, it is his own system both on offense and defense.

And what about Mike Shanahan's 07 & 08 teams in the last three games? Would you say Mike lost the team? Some of those scores were just as epic and involved division teams with the playoffs on the line.

tsiguy96
10-26-2010, 05:53 PM
can someone please tell me a real benefit to puttting tebow in? how is he POSSIBLY going to be an upgrade over orton? should josh completely ignore his "best player plays" philosophy to get a rookie QB on the field and take off our productive veteran?

the fact that so many people here think this is a good idea is incredible.

WolfpackGuy
10-26-2010, 06:00 PM
Drafting Teboz might've made sense had this team been one or two players away.

Hopefully, not even the blindest of homers were thinking that...

baja
10-26-2010, 06:27 PM
Drafting Teboz might've made sense had this team been one or two players away.

Hopefully, not even the blindest of homers were thinking that...

We'd be two players away if they were John Elway & Terrell Davis

Tombstone RJ
10-26-2010, 06:35 PM
You're supporting Orton and you call me a moron?
Now, that's freakin' funny. Way too funny! ROFL! LOL

My bad, I name called and that's because I've kinda lost my posting decency (what little I had) hence my new avatar sig. Do me a solid, go back to the poster name dragster, don't kid yourself anymore...

Tombstone RJ
10-26-2010, 06:37 PM
If your gonna give up on the season, throw Quinn out there, seriously, see if he can pull a rabbit out of his ass.

No, I'm serious. Why the hell not?

DivineLegion
10-26-2010, 06:48 PM
At this point there is no way in hell we are playing for the playoffs. Work the kid in slowly as the season progresses, and week 12 hand over the reins. Trade Orton at the end of the season, and use all of our draft picks on Defense.

baja
10-26-2010, 06:50 PM
If your gonna give up on the season, throw Quinn out there, seriously, see if he can pull a rabbit out of his ass.

No, I'm serious. Why the hell not?

If we were to do something as foolish as pull Orton it would be infinitely better to put Quinn in than Tebow.

Tebow is not ready and it might ruin a player that could be very special if handled right. I assess people that would call for Tebow now as knee jerk short sighted individuals.

Besides Quinn would surprise a lot of people. After the league saw what each was capable of we could chose between two QBs that would fetch a good player or high draft pick and still have Tebow and the one we kept.

Jay3
10-26-2010, 06:51 PM
At this point there is no way in hell we are playing for the playoffs. Work the kid in slowly as the season progresses, and week 12 hand over the reins. Trade Orton at the end of the season, and use all of our draft picks on Defense.

If the Broncos lose in London, do it after the bye week.

If the Broncos win in London, keep going with Orton until mathematical elimination.

That's the winning recipe.

Chris
10-26-2010, 06:51 PM
can someone please tell me a real benefit to puttting tebow in? how is he POSSIBLY going to be an upgrade over orton? should josh completely ignore his "best player plays" philosophy to get a rookie QB on the field and take off our productive veteran?

the fact that so many people here think this is a good idea is incredible.

It shows you that people are reactionary and emotional. Pray all you want guys because it's not going to happen.

Jay3
10-26-2010, 06:54 PM
can someone please tell me a real benefit to puttting tebow in? how is he POSSIBLY going to be an upgrade over orton? should josh completely ignore his "best player plays" philosophy to get a rookie QB on the field and take off our productive veteran?

the fact that so many people here think this is a good idea is incredible.

Tebow is a better quarterback than Orton. He's got to master the playbook, but the way to do that is with lots of reps in practice, and lots of game action. When you have a rookie starting, you adapt the playbook to his strengths, and to the plays he's already mastered. (Like the Jets and Sanchez, or the Ravens did Flacco).

Of course, you'd have to give up the awesome playbook the Broncos have been using. So there's that.

Dagmar
10-26-2010, 06:57 PM
Tebow is a better quarterback than Orton. He's got to master the playbook, but the way to do that is with lots of reps in practice, and lots of game action. When you have a rookie starting, you adapt the playbook to his strengths, and to the plays he's already mastered. (Like the Jets and Sanchez, or the Ravens did Flacco).

Of course, you'd have to give up the awesome playbook the Broncos have been using. So there's that.

What? He may have more potential.

Jay3
10-26-2010, 07:00 PM
What? He may have more potential.

That, too.

Dagmar
10-26-2010, 07:08 PM
That, too.

When has Tim Tebow shown he is a better NFL QB than Kyle Orton? When?

Jay3
10-26-2010, 07:25 PM
When has Tim Tebow shown he is a better NFL QB than Kyle Orton? When?

Haven't you had this argument 100 times before? I have. Not trying to start it up again.

If Sam Bradford were drafted by the Broncos, would you keep him on the bench forever, because he would not yet have shown what he can do in the NFL?

All quarterbacks new to the NFL are, well, new. They have to be worked in and given their shot.

Tombstone RJ
10-26-2010, 07:33 PM
At this point there is no way in hell we are playing for the playoffs. Work the kid in slowly as the season progresses, and week 12 hand over the reins. Trade Orton at the end of the season, and use all of our draft picks on Defense.

Orton deserves the chance to lead this team. Either he can do it or he can't. If you pull the plug on the guy now, the team will quit and which ever QB is in there will get killed.

SlipperyPete
10-26-2010, 07:39 PM
Immediately after the bye would be a huge mistake. Romeo Crennel would have Tebow so confused, he'd start thinking he was a Scientologist.

baja
10-26-2010, 07:40 PM
I don't think the Broncos have regressed as much as many posters here have regressed.

I can't believe some of the quality posters that actually entertain this fool's plan to bench Orton for Tebow. Orton isn't even the problem, hell we might not have a problem that healing and time together won't fix.

Jay3
10-26-2010, 07:48 PM
Immediately after the bye would be a huge mistake. Romeo Crennel would have Tebow so confused, he'd start thinking he was a Scientologist.

With the powers of Xenu!!

Bob's your Information Minister
10-26-2010, 08:19 PM
I gotta be honest.

I think Tebow is gonna be a terrible NFL quarterback.

I think if he's shoved into action this year he's gonna end up as the lowest rated QB in the league.

I think the Chiefs and Romeo Crennel would absolutely embarrass him. Hali would attack his blindside all day long.

Since I hate his guts, I HIGHLY APPROVE. Throw him to the wolves.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 08:51 PM
Tebow is a better quarterback than Orton.


Tebow has more talent than Orton. It remains to be seen if he is a better quarterback. You have to be able to run a pro offense to be a "better" quarterback. My hunch is that Tebow probably still has a lot to learn in this offense, and if the anecdotal information surrounding Hillis is any indication, Josh will absolutely refuse to start you if you don't fully understand the playbook.

After considering the question for the afternoon, I think people are right that there's no way Tebow is going to see the field this season. Even if things go drastically south. We may see one or two throws at best in swamp formation in the Red Zone, but I doubt that it'll be until next August that we see him throw a ball between the 40's.

I think Bowlen will be forgiving of this loss so long as the Broncos prove to be competitive at the very least over these last 9 games - particularly against division opponents. Though, I think losing at home to the Chargers and Chiefs by large margins may change his mind on that.

For my part, I'll never forgive the guy for losing to Tom freakin' Cable, let alone give up a scoring record to the Raiders. I may be able to look past it eventually, but my sympathy for him has worn pretty thin. That said, I haven't given up on his potential yet. I certainly wouldn't participate in booing him at a game, though I can understand why someone else would.

lostknight
10-26-2010, 09:04 PM
Tebow has more talent than Orton. It remains to be seen if he is a better quarterback. You have to be able to run a pro offense to be a "better" quarterback. My hunch is that Tebow probably still has a lot to learn in this offense, and if the anecdotal information surrounding Hillis is any indication, Josh will absolutely refuse to start you if you don't fully understand the playbook.


Or if you glance at him the wrong way, talk back, think longingly of the previous regime, or generally look at McDaniels wife wrong ;-)

DT clearly is on the field, even though he clearly doesn't know the syste,

After considering the question for the afternoon, I think people are right that there's no way Tebow is going to see the field this season. Even if things go drastically south. We may see one or two throws at best in swamp formation in the Red Zone, but I doubt that it'll be until next August that we see him throw a ball between the 40's.


Time to kill the swamp formation. What good does it do right now? This team has problems on it, all of one of which Tebow can't solve.


For my part, I'll never forgive the guy for losing to Tom freakin' Cable, let alone give up a scoring record to the Raiders. I may be able to look past it eventually, but my sympathy for him has worn pretty thin. That said, I haven't given up on his potential yet. I certainly wouldn't participate in booing him at a game, though I can understand why someone else would.

I still maintain that if Josh got a decent o-coordinator, he could be great. What keeps him from being great is himself.

It's a bit ironic. We blast Cutler for being a egomaniac, self-obsessed player who can really look impressive when the performance is on, but crashes on the everyday jobs. That description also applies to McDaniels. I've really come to the conclusion that the problem there was that there were too similar.

lostknight
10-26-2010, 09:06 PM
Orton's performance the last two weeks is very problematic. So far he has not shown that he can deliver when Lloyd is tied up, just like he couldn't deliver last year when Marshall was. He was good spreading around the ball early, but take away his comfort blanked, and he's like Linus.

Garcia Bronco
10-26-2010, 09:07 PM
I don't care who plays. I want wins.

Orton ain't the problem. It's that awful trench work. Stop the run. Get to the QB. QUIT PLAYING LIKE PUSSIES.

Don't we basically play the lame ass June Jones 'run and shoot'?

Popps
10-26-2010, 09:32 PM
All quarterbacks new to the NFL are, well, new. They have to be worked in and given their shot.

Bradford was thought to be NFL-ready, and he looks that way.

Some believe Tebow can't even play the position in the NFL. Those are two very different situations.

St. Louis also didn't bench a QB putting up Pro Bowl numbers to put in said project-rookie-QB.

TailgateNut
10-27-2010, 01:47 AM
can someone please tell me a real benefit to puttting tebow in? how is he POSSIBLY going to be an upgrade over orton? should josh completely ignore his "best player plays" philosophy to get a rookie QB on the field and take off our productive veteran?

the fact that so many people here think this is a good idea is assinine.

refine the comment.^5

TailgateNut
10-27-2010, 01:51 AM
When has Tim Tebow shown he is a better NFL QB than Kyle Orton? When?


His unwavering man-love for Tebowski has affected his entire thought process,

HAT
10-27-2010, 02:10 AM
Tebow is a better quarterback than Orton. .

What was that one dude's name that was the big Vandy/Cutler fan? (Not jhiz)

You know, the one who posted crapola like, I'm going to meet Jay this weekend, does anyone have any fag-questions for him? (Not jhiz)

That dude was a classic (not jhiz).

Jay3 reminds me of that dude. (not jhiz)

The Joker
10-27-2010, 02:17 AM
I think it'd be a silly move.

First reason being that I sincerely doubt Tebow is ready to play, especially in the offense we run. You've seen the jump Orton made from year 1 to year 2, and it's almost exclusively down to his comfort in the system. So much of how well this offense does is decided before the snap, depending on what reads and audibles the QB makes.

Tebow is still trying to learn this, and I doubt he's anywhere near there yet. He's also been trying to alter his mechanics drastically in the last few months, so he hasn't even been able to focus exclusively on learning the playbook and system. With our pathetic running game and defense, I think he'd be more or less going into a no-win situation and he'd probably end up throwing a lot of picks and possibly suffering a bad injury trying to scramble too much and make plays with his legs.

The other reason is that Orton is playing at a pretty high level this year (though the last two games he's been poor) and I reckon he'll end up with something close to 4,500 yards passing with roughly 25 TD's and 12 INTs.

There are teams in the NFL who would LOVE that kind of production from their QB, and will be willing to give up very good draft picks to get it. We bench Orton now and we massacre his trade value, and probably end up moving him for a pittance in the offseason.

Josh needs to play this one patiently. I really don't think Bowlen will give him the axe, even if he finishes 4-12. Get a nice pick or two for Orton in the offseason and (I'm betting the Vikings or Cardinals would be very, very interested) use that to build other areas of the team, and let a much more pro-ready Tebow step in and lead us in 2011.

The Joker
10-27-2010, 02:23 AM
What was that one dude's name that was the big Vandy/Cutler fan? (Not jhiz)

You know, the one who posted crapola like, I'm going to meet Jay this weekend, does anyone have any fag-questions for him? (Not jhiz)

That dude was a classic (not jhiz).

Jay3 reminds me of that dude. (not jhiz)

Cutlerfan.

Friend of mine is a big Bears fan, after the trade happened he told me that some guy had joined the forum and put up some uber-post that basically amounted to...

"Prepare to be amazed. You will never lose another game due to bad QB play. This man can do everything. He is a GOD!"

So I had a look and sure enough there it was, with none other than our very own cutlerfan making his first post on the Bears forum.

That guy was such a loser, got to figure he stalks Cutler at least a little bit.

kappys
10-27-2010, 03:05 AM
Orton's performance the last two weeks is very problematic. So far he has not shown that he can deliver when Lloyd is tied up, just like he couldn't deliver last year when Marshall was. He was good spreading around the ball early, but take away his comfort blanked, and he's like Linus.

I think it has a lot to do with defenses keying in on getting to Orton. Without even the rudiments of a running game there is no reason for defenses not to constantly go after him. He did amazingly well under serious pressure against Tenn - but there are very few QB's that can do it week after week. Not even Peyton could handle it IMO.

Drek
10-27-2010, 03:24 AM
I still maintain that if Josh got a decent o-coordinator, he could be great. What keeps him from being great is himself.


The coordination of the offense, game plans, pacing, play calling, aren't the problem. Its the execution, primarily the OL.

A different OL coach is starting to look like a good move though. Barone gets the rest of the season to show if he can turn it around but McDaniels needs to be willing to make the change when the season ends if the OL hasn't progressed.

As for his defensive coaching staff, Martindale has looked very good some weeks and very bad others so that is a tough call which depends entirely on how he finishes the season.

I think we've gotten all we can out of Priefer (development of Prater and Colquitt) and now its time to find someone to fix the return/coverage games too.

Jay3
10-27-2010, 05:24 AM
Bradford was thought to be NFL-ready, and he looks that way.

Some believe Tebow can't even play the position in the NFL. Those are two very different situations.

St. Louis also didn't bench a QB putting up Pro Bowl numbers to put in said project-rookie-QB.

This is what it always comes down to. You guys start out claiming that it's just an unassailable NFL truth that Tebow couldn't be ready. When pressed, it comes out that you think the problem is Tebow, that's he's probably more of a project than Bradford (or Clausen, or McCoy, etc.).

Which is fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But at least be aware that it is an opinion.

In the last 30 years, the best quarterback (in hindsight) was not taken as the first quarterback in the draft but maybe three times or so. The vast majority of the time, guys show different when given a chance to play.

Jay3
10-27-2010, 05:30 AM
First reason being that I sincerely doubt Tebow is ready to play, especially in the offense we run. Y

"in the offense we run" is the key phrase. At some point, we have to conclude that "the system" should not be given primacy over everything. This past Sunday, it all fell apart.

There's a balance between system and players. You go with players that have ability, and you form a system of plays around what they have mastered. Then add to it, lather, rinse, repeat.

You can't just throw the playbook at a rookie QB and say "You'll play when you can run this entire system better than that veteran over there, and you'll have to make that impression with only 10 reps in practice to his 35."

It's a conundrum, I grant. But it's time to consider whether it might be time to streamline the playbook, and build an offense around Tim Tebow.


As I've said -- go all out against SF. If the Broncos win, stay with it until elimination. But if the wheels continue to stay off, at 2-6 make the change and develop TEbow.

Drek
10-27-2010, 01:42 PM
As I've said -- go all out against SF. If the Broncos win, stay with it until elimination. But if the wheels continue to stay off, at 2-6 make the change and develop TEbow.

I don't see how getting the **** kicked out of him behind a very bad OL will help to develop Tebow.

Tim Tebow has a lot of things to develop on the way to being an elite NFL QB. Many of them can be addressed before he ever sets foot in a live game. He's getting a taste of NFL game speed as it is with limited touches already.

The only way McDaniels can introduce Tebow as the starter is if he goes several weeks with Tebow getting more and more part time action that actually involves throwing passes. If, and only if, Tebow is wildly successful can you then make him the full time starter over Orton. Anything else and you lose the locker room, which as I've said is the single reason why McDaniels would lose the rights to a 3rd season here.

TheReverend
10-27-2010, 01:43 PM
Defensive ends that have to play contain on Tebow can't rush the passer effectively.

Just sayin...