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Jesterhole
10-26-2010, 06:17 AM
Where McDaniels has experienced his greatest struggle is in home games against AFC West opponents. He is 0-4, including such lopsided defeats as 32-3 to San Diego, 44-24 to then 3-12 Kansas City and now 59-14 to the Raiders, who haven't won more than five games in a season since 2002.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16433412#ixzz13TCxw4hb

If you can't get your team to show up at home against your biggest rivals, then you can't motivate them to do anything, much less a playoff push.
Maybe McDaniels will be a good coach when he grows into a man. He isn't right now though, and we should cut our losses as soon as possible.

long beach bronco
10-26-2010, 06:23 AM
If we don't make the playoffs this year, he's done. So I guess he's done.

spdirty
10-26-2010, 06:27 AM
Unless the last couple home games are played in front of an empty Arrowhead-like stadium, Ellis will give him 1 more year.

McDman
10-26-2010, 06:28 AM
I just can't see Bowlen firing him after two years.

long beach bronco
10-26-2010, 06:32 AM
Wade Philips did more and got fired after two years. I tell you all this, if we go to London and get beat by a bad 49ers team convincingly, I wouldn't be surprised if Bowlen fires him next Monday.

Jesterhole
10-26-2010, 06:38 AM
I don't think he will be fired this year, because Bowlen would look stupid and wouldn't want the embarrassment to the franchise of having an interim head coach or something.

I think the end of the season is the earliest it happens, and only if we go something like 4-12 (which seems very possible at this point).

bronclvr
10-26-2010, 06:39 AM
i think it's a bit (aww hell! it's a lot) early to thiink about firing McD. Are we a bunch of embarassed, emotional crybabies right now? Yes (raising hand), but let's see how the rest of the Season turns out. Lets give McD the chance to rally the troops even though they are a rag tag bunch of the walking wounded. We might actually be happily surprised with the results-

I think we all go through some tough times in life, and this may well be McD's-

long beach bronco
10-26-2010, 06:44 AM
I hope the team proves me wrong, because my confidence has never been lower with this current team and coach.

Ray Finkle
10-26-2010, 06:46 AM
Wade Philips did more and got fired after two years. I tell you all this, if we go to London and get beat by a bad 49ers team convincingly, I wouldn't be surprised if Bowlen fires him next Monday.

Phillips was nothing more than a seat warmer until Shanahan was ready.

long beach bronco
10-26-2010, 06:48 AM
Maybe true Finkle, but if Wade took the Broncos to two straight playoff appearances, I don't think he would have been fired.

manchambo
10-26-2010, 06:50 AM
My main reason for wanting him fired is that I don't want to see him get another draft.

They'll have a high (perhaps very high) pick in the first round (and we're just lucky he didn't trade it away last year for a second round pick) and two second round picks.

The day they become competitive again can be substantially accelerated or delayed by those picks.

fontaine
10-26-2010, 06:55 AM
I don't think Josh should be fired mid season.

However, in the offseason it's the same situation as with Shanahan and Slowik.

Josh needs to hand over the Defense/OL to real coaches who not only have experience and the know how (like Nolan etc) but also have the ability to recognize players in the draft that best fit the system (like Turner/Dennison used to do).

Josh should stick to what he knows best and that's X's and O's for the passing game and developing Tebow.

If he's unwilling and unable to do that, then I don't see how Bowlen has a choice.

Even a great Head Coach like Shanahan had his limitations in building a solid defense.

Mogulseeker
10-26-2010, 06:57 AM
I willing to give it a couple of years, but I'm not gonna lie, the home record against the AFCW is something I've though about, and it's a tough pill to swallow.

Mogulseeker
10-26-2010, 06:58 AM
I don't think Josh should be fired mid season.

However, in the offseason it's the same situation as with Shanahan and Slowik.

Josh needs to hand over the Defense/OL to real coaches who not only have experience and the know how (like Nolan etc) but also have the ability to recognize players in the draft that best fit the system (like Turner/Dennison used to do).

Josh should stick to what he knows best and that's X's and O's for the passing game and developing Tebow.

If he's unwilling and unable to do that, then I don't see how Bowlen has a choice.

Even a great Head Coach like Shanahan had his limitations in building a solid defense.

Pretty solid post here.

Old Dude
10-26-2010, 07:01 AM
I don't think Josh should be fired mid season.

However, in the offseason it's the same situation as with Shanahan and Slowik.

Josh needs to hand over the Defense/OL to real coaches who not only have experience and the know how (like Nolan etc) but also have the ability to recognize players in the draft that best fit the system (like Turner/Dennison used to do).

Josh should stick to what he knows best and that's X's and O's for the passing game and developing Tebow.

If he's unwilling and unable to do that, then I don't see how Bowlen has a choice.

Even a great Head Coach like Shanahan had his limitations in building a solid defense.

Probably very good points, but I think they go against human nature. Most of us, most of the time, when things are breaking down, tend towards more micro-management, and it looks to me like McD may be falling into the same natural trap.

jhns
10-26-2010, 07:02 AM
I doubt McDaniels is fired during the season. I don't think that is something Bowlen would ever do, and I wouldn't want him to. If the team doesn't get a LOT better, he will probably be gone after the season. I'm pretty sure Shanahan never once had a top 10 pick and he rebuilt the team a few times. I hope Bowlen doesn't accept that kind of performance.

TonyR
10-26-2010, 07:11 AM
Josh needs to hand over the Defense/OL to real coaches...

Do we know that Martindale isn't a "real coach"? Hard to judge a guy who has marginal talent to begin with, very limited quality depth, and then loses both of his outside LBs (Dumervil and Ayers), a starting S (Dawkins) and his backup (McBath), and a starting CB (Goodman) and perhaps his backup (Cox).

Ray Finkle
10-26-2010, 07:15 AM
Do we know that Martindale isn't a "real coach"? Hard to judge a guy who has marginal talent to begin with, very limited quality depth, and then loses both of his outside LBs (Dumervil and Ayers), a starting S (Dawkins) and his backup (McBath), and a starting CB (Goodman) and perhaps his backup (Cox).

I agree. I also think you need to give the OL coaches a season. With the injuries/rookies, it is going to take a little time. I am not happy but you need to show patience.

TailgateNut
10-26-2010, 07:17 AM
Do we know that Martindale isn't a "real coach"? Hard to judge a guy who has marginal talent to begin with, very limited quality depth, and then loses both of his outside LBs (Dumervil and Ayers), a starting S (Dawkins) and his backup (McBath), and a starting CB (Goodman) and perhaps his backup (Cox).

Yep, that wouldn't affect the performance of a team. Just ask jhns, the resident "know-it-all".Hilarious!

fontaine
10-26-2010, 07:19 AM
Do we know that Martindale isn't a "real coach"? Hard to judge a guy who has marginal talent to begin with, very limited quality depth, and then loses both of his outside LBs (Dumervil and Ayers), a starting S (Dawkins) and his backup (McBath), and a starting CB (Goodman) and perhaps his backup (Cox).

His only pro experience is LBer's coach. . . .


. . . . For Oakland.

He wasn't even the first choice DC. Dean Pees was and for some reason Pees chose to be the LBer's coach in B'more rather than take the DC job here.

Sorry, but we had a great one in Mike Nolan who did more with far less.

Ray Finkle
10-26-2010, 07:20 AM
His only pro experience is LBer's coach. . . .


. . . . For Oakland.

He wasn't even the first choice DC. Dean Pees was and for some reason Pees chose to be the LBer's coach in B'more rather than take the DC job here.

Sorry, but we had a great one in Mike Nolan who did more with far less.

Nolan had a healthy Doom, Dawkins, and Goodman.

jhns
10-26-2010, 07:22 AM
Yep, that wouldn't affect the performance of a team. Just ask jhns, the resident "know-it-all".Hilarious!

It will but not to the point of 59-14. In fact, Slowik had more injuries in his one season and I don't see a single person trying to make this excuse for him. This team just did worse than the beat up Slowik defense ever did.

The team is great though. I don't know why I ever questioned the direction. You are right about me, I just don't know what I'm talking about!

LOL

jhat01
10-26-2010, 07:23 AM
I've been a supporter of McDaniels from the get go. That being said, if the team comes out on Sunday and is not competative, the first move I would make is find a GM that has a proven track record and replace X right away. Said GM could start his coaching search sooner rather than later and get the front office in order and have that much more time to get ready for the draft. There's a very real possibility that we'll be drafting top 5, and we can't screw that up.

If the team comes out and responds, at least it would show that they have some fight in them and that they believe in what the coach is preaching. I think this week coming up decides McD's fate with the team. I know it's early to say that, but if they lay down again...He's as sure as gone.

Bring in a GM that has known success in this league, one that would be the head man without a doubt, and get t he wheels in motion.

fontaine
10-26-2010, 07:23 AM
Probably very good points, but I think they go against human nature. Most of us, most of the time, when things are breaking down, tend towards more micro-management, and it looks to me like McD may be falling into the same natural trap.

I hear you, but McDaniels chose to meddle with the running game/OL way before it was breaking down.

We only needed a C/RB combo and Dennison/Turner would have taken care of the rest. Instead McDaniels chose to go down this road in forcing a power blocking scheme on players like Kuper/Harris/Clady who clearly aren't doing well in it, starting a rookie Center and to top it all off trading a 4th for Maroney.

fontaine
10-26-2010, 07:27 AM
Nolan had a healthy Doom, Dawkins, and Goodman.

Look we could go around in circles here all day. Nolan didn't have a Jamal Williams, Bannan, improved Robert Ayers, Cox etc etc.

The bottom line is Nolan got this defense to play well above their collective talent (especially along the front 7) until after 7 games when other teams had enough film to exploit our lack of talent up front.

The same nonsense keeps repeating itself here in Denver. We stumble through inept Defensive Coordinators, never giving them the kind of fire power they need along the DL and when we do luck out in finding a DC that can get the most out of his players (Coyer, Nolan), they get scape goated or run out of town even though they had nothing to work with along the DL.

Same old story.

bronco militia
10-26-2010, 07:33 AM
Look we could go around in circles here all day. Nolan didn't have a Jamal Williams, Bannan, improved Robert Ayers, Cox etc etc.

The bottom line is Nolan got this defense to play well above their collective talent (especially along the front 7) until after 7 games when other teams had enough film to exploit our lack of talent up front.

The same nonsense keeps repeating itself here in Denver. We stumble through inept Defensive Coordinators, never giving them the kind of fire power they need along the DL and when we do luck out in finding a DC that can get the most out of his players (Coyer, Nolan), they get scape goated or run out of town even though they had nothing to work with along the DL.

Same old story.

coyer? lol

Dagmar
10-26-2010, 07:40 AM
His only pro experience is LBer's coach. . . .


. . . . For Oakland.

He wasn't even the first choice DC. Dean Pees was and for some reason Pees chose to be the LBer's coach in B'more rather than take the DC job here.

Sorry, but we had a great one in Mike Nolan who did more with far less.

His players were fit and were gave up all those points the OP is referring to to the poor AFC West teams at home with his D's

TonyR
10-26-2010, 07:41 AM
Same old story.

Maybe, but I think the "story" is more about the talent than the coaches. And when you have limited talent and depth to begin with and then have injuries it's not exactly a recipe for success. Dumervil, Ayers and Dawkins are arguable 3 of our best 5 defensive players for crying out loud. That's hard to overcome. None of this excuses the team's overall poor performance but these are factors you have to at least consider.

jmz313
10-26-2010, 08:06 AM
I still think he should be fired for being so excited to beat the Pats last year. Happened here all the time coach. Fans expect that win.

For some reason, i think if he got spanked by 30 in that game, we'd of had a different season and different future. I just think that while he was "king of the world"-ing all over the field instead of shaking hands.... he then Completely bought into the Josh McDaniels hype.

Dagmar
10-26-2010, 08:09 AM
I still think he should be fired for being so excited to beat the Pats last year. Happened here all the time coach. Fans expect that win.

For some reason, i think if he got spanked by 30 in that game, we'd of had a different season and different future. I just think that while he was "king of the world"-ing all over the field instead of shaking hands.... he then Completely bought into the Josh McDaniels hype.

Hilarious!

jmz313
10-26-2010, 08:10 AM
Maybe, but I think the "story" is more about the talent than the coaches. And when you have limited talent and depth to begin with and then have injuries it's not exactly a recipe for success. Dumervil, Ayers and Dawkins are arguable 3 of our best 5 defensive players for crying out loud. That's hard to overcome. None of this excuses the team's overall poor performance but these are factors you have to at least consider.

I dunno, the team played well against the Jets the week prior with the same manpower. Its Preparation, and motivation. The team wasn't ready for the raiders, yet again. Neither were the coaches as was evident by the sorry 2nd half once the smoked settled from the crazy horribly bad and unlucky 1st quarter.

jmz313
10-26-2010, 08:11 AM
Hilarious!

im being somewhat sarcastic of course, but the Coach is not bigger then the organization... I feel coach josh thinks he is.

vancejohnson82
10-26-2010, 08:13 AM
I dunno, the team played well against the Jets the week prior with the same manpower. Its Preparation, and motivation. The team wasn't ready for the raiders, yet again. Neither were the coaches as was evident by the sorry 2nd half once the smoked settled from the crazy horribly bad and unlucky 1st quarter.

the team, and perhaps to a lesser extent, the coaching staff definitely let the Jets loss effect them during the week and into the first quarter of that game. I thought about the way we lost that game all week and kinda didnt even think about the Raiders game coming up...but then again, I'm a fan....the players should be over losses on Monday

well, unless you lose by 45

SonOfLe-loLang
10-26-2010, 08:13 AM
My main reason for wanting him fired is that I don't want to see him get another draft.

They'll have a high (perhaps very high) pick in the first round (and we're just lucky he didn't trade it away last year for a second round pick) and two second round picks.

The day they become competitive again can be substantially accelerated or delayed by those picks.

Are people really complaining about our draft this year? Really? Thomas looks like a player, Beadles looks like a player, Cox has been playing well, even Syd'Quan has in his limited time. And we all agreed Tebow looked great in the preseason and has shown a lot of promise. Everyone here also fellates Decker over his potential.

colonelbeef
10-26-2010, 08:13 AM
Unless the last couple home games are played in front of an empty Arrowhead-like stadium, Ellis will give him 1 more year.

Another part of the problem- Joe Ellis has no business being in charge of a Football franchise.

fontaine
10-26-2010, 08:14 AM
Maybe, but I think the "story" is more about the talent than the coaches. And when you have limited talent and depth to begin with and then have injuries it's not exactly a recipe for success. Dumervil, Ayers and Dawkins are arguable 3 of our best 5 defensive players for crying out loud. That's hard to overcome. None of this excuses the team's overall poor performance but these are factors you have to at least consider.


Sure, and I think it's both the combination of coaches and lack of playmakers along the front 7.

Yet McDaniels had 10 picks in the first three rounds in the draft. The opportunity, ammunition and certainly need was there.

It just wasn't addressed, just like it wasn't when Shanahan was here.

That's why I say, same old story.

bronco militia
10-26-2010, 08:14 AM
im being somewhat sarcastic of course, but the Coach is not bigger then the organization... I feel coach josh thinks he is.

you need that kind of personality to be a head coach. Especially when the owner gives you complete control of football operations.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-26-2010, 08:16 AM
Sure, and I think it's both the combination of coaches and lack of playmakers along the front 7.

Yet McDaniels had 10 picks in the first three rounds in the draft. The opportunity, ammunition and certainly need was there.

It just wasn't addressed, just like it wasn't when Shanahan was here.

That's why I say, same old story.

It also doesnt help that two of those front seven players are badly injured.

jmz313
10-26-2010, 08:25 AM
you need that kind of personality to be a head coach. Especially when the owner gives you complete control of football operations.

I don't agree. I don't see the same "style" in many of the other successful coaches. Even his mentor BB.

Mile High Shack
10-26-2010, 08:27 AM
Sure, and I think it's both the combination of coaches and lack of playmakers along the front 7.

Yet McDaniels had 10 picks in the first three rounds in the draft. The opportunity, ammunition and certainly need was there.

It just wasn't addressed, just like it wasn't when Shanahan was here.

That's why I say, same old story.

This is dead on, Xanders and McDaniels squandered those picks and threw away the future. THIS is the most important reason why he will not succeed here. He has no idea how to run a team. He might be ok at X's and O's, but when it comes to the administration aspect, he's clueless.

bronco militia
10-26-2010, 08:31 AM
I don't agree. I don't see the same "style" in many of the other successful coaches. Even his mentor BB.


come on man....all these guys are control freaks.

Rock Chalk
10-26-2010, 08:34 AM
I hear you, but McDaniels chose to meddle with the running game/OL way before it was breaking down.

We only needed a C/RB combo and Dennison/Turner would have taken care of the rest. Instead McDaniels chose to go down this road in forcing a power blocking scheme on players like Kuper/Harris/Clady who clearly aren't doing well in it, starting a rookie Center and to top it all off trading a 4th for Maroney.

Its a catch 22.

We stay with the ZBS and we can still run, but we cant pass block for **** and our red zone running is still ****.

Dennison and Turner both moved on, took promotions and went to work with old friends. Josh couldn't be blamed for that. We all knew Turner was gone when Shanahan took another job. We figured Dennison would have gone with him but instead goes to Kubiak, a very long time friend. You cant blame Josh for that.

Josh went with what he knew, KNOWING that he would likely lose Turner and Dennison after the first year. What he knows is power blocking is better in the red zone and pass protection. That doesnt mean our line is suited for it but for his offense it is more important to have pass protection and to be able to punch it in in the red zone. He is probably figuring that, if given time, he can get the Offensive Line working well together in this scheme and replace those players that cannot work in this scheme.

It is also PROBABLY unfair to bang too hard on the O-line coach as he had the monumental task of getting 3 rookies/first year starters meshing with each other, teaching them his scheme, and dealing with injuries to both starting Tackles all through training camp.

bendog
10-26-2010, 08:37 AM
you need that kind of personality to be a head coach. Especially when the owner gives you complete control of football operations.

But when you watch McDaniels in a presser, can you honestly say you don't go "OMG we are so ****ed?" I can't believe players don't have similar reactions. He may be a genius with the passing game, but .... man. Deer in headlights.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 08:42 AM
Maybe, but I think the "story" is more about the talent than the coaches.


Nolan's case seems to prove differently. The improvement the defense made from the year previous, to the season he coached, to what we have now - at least on the face coaching appears to matter.

Rock Chalk
10-26-2010, 08:44 AM
Nolan's case seems to prove differently. The improvement the defense made from the year previous, to the season he coached, to what we have now - at least on the face coaching appears to matter.

People keep pointing to Nolan.

He did admirably in the first 6 games but the remaining 10 games the team defense was just as bad as it was the previous year.

bendog
10-26-2010, 08:47 AM
People keep pointing to Nolan.

He did admirably in the first 6 games but the remaining 10 games the team defense was just as bad as it was the previous year.

Same players, same result. Smoke and mirrors get exposed. But the DC isn't in charge of personnel with McDaniels as the HC.

btw, if you call him "Josh" can I call him "Tiny."? (-:

colonelbeef
10-26-2010, 08:48 AM
I still think he should be fired for being so excited to beat the Pats last year. Happened here all the time coach. Fans expect that win.

For some reason, i think if he got spanked by 30 in that game, we'd of had a different season and different future. I just think that while he was "king of the world"-ing all over the field instead of shaking hands.... he then Completely bought into the Josh McDaniels hype.

I don't get how people weren't bothered more by that abomination- if things continue to go the way they are going, that video clip will live in Broncos infamy

::fist pumps::

UberBroncoMan
10-26-2010, 08:48 AM
People keep pointing to Nolan.

He did admirably in the first 6 games but the remaining 10 games the team defense was just as bad as it was the previous year.

Pretty much.

We wont he first 6 with smoke and mirrors. Was a lot like the 05 season in that regard for those games.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 08:51 AM
People keep pointing to Nolan.

He did admirably in the first 6 games but the remaining 10 games the team defense was just as bad as it was the previous year.


Well yeah. That's when Josh stepped in and started dictating.

loborugger
10-26-2010, 08:53 AM
Wade Philips did more and got fired after two years. I tell you all this, if we go to London and get beat by a bad 49ers team convincingly, I wouldn't be surprised if Bowlen fires him next Monday.

Wade Phillips got fired because all along Bowlen wanted Shanny.

Popps
10-26-2010, 08:58 AM
If we don't make the playoffs this year, he's done. So I guess he's done.

We weren't likely to make the playoffs this year to begin with.

The team has been ravaged by injuries. Bowlen is going to fire him after that? Without giving him a chance to at least field a full roster?

We're literally playing a preseason defense out there, folks. Rookies and back-ups. We're missing 3 of our 4 best defenders, among other role players.


McDaniels will get at least another season, like it or not.

Mile High Shack
10-26-2010, 08:58 AM
Wade Phillips got fired because all along Bowlen wanted Shanny.

bingo, he wanted Shanny before Wade Phillips, Shanny told Bowlen he wasn't ready yet, so when he was......

bendog
10-26-2010, 08:59 AM
Funny, the saints and the packers don't trot out the injury excuse.

bendog
10-26-2010, 09:02 AM
bingo, he wanted Shanny before Wade Phillips, Shanny told Bowlen he wasn't ready yet, so when he was......

But with Wade is was painfully obvious there was no upside, and Bowlen was a lot younger and more able/active ... and there was the Duke.

Tebow has to start next year, or if there's a lockout all season then 2012. If he's a franchise qb, McDaniels is saved. (-:

Mile High Shack
10-26-2010, 09:03 AM
But with Wade is was painfully obvious there was no upside, and Bowlen was a lot younger and more able/active ... and there was the Duke.

Tebow has to start next year, or if there's a lockout all season then 2012. If he's a franchise qb, McDaniels is saved. (-:

That's the thing, during the dark years with Wade, we still had Elway, now we have.....nothing

TonyR
10-26-2010, 09:04 AM
Funny, the saints and the packers don't trot out the injury excuse.

Both teams were very solid coming into the season and are both far underperforming expectations. Injuries are the primary reason in the case of the Packers, I'm not sure what to make of New Orleans.

uplink
10-26-2010, 09:04 AM
It is not out of the realm of possibilities that McD will be fired if the SF game does not go well.

I like him as a coach, but just saying this has a small chance of happening.

TonyR
10-26-2010, 09:06 AM
Well yeah. That's when Josh stepped in and started dictating.

Meh. Our lack of talent got exposed once teams had us figured out. It was a mediocre to poor defense after week 6 for the most part.

loborugger
10-26-2010, 09:06 AM
Funny, the saints and the packers don't trot out the injury excuse.

Well, yes and no. No one in those organizations is trotting out the injury excuse. And on that point, no one in the Broncos org is trotting out that excuse, either. (at least not that I have seen). Having said that, both Green Bay and NO should be playing at a higher level than they are, but cant because of injuries. Denver also should be playing at a higher level, too, but its just that we werent as good as GB and NO to begin with. GB and NO are teams that were - prior to injuries - vying for top spot in the NFC and a trip to the SB.

Dagmar
10-26-2010, 09:07 AM
It is not out of the realm of possibilities that McD will be fired if the SF game does not go well.

I like him as a coach, but just saying this has a small chance of happening.

Go on to Mile High Report and check out the article posted on Monday about firing a coach mid season. It's eye opening and I wish the haters on here would read it before their "fire him" ****.

ScottXray
10-26-2010, 09:09 AM
We weren't likely to make the playoffs this year to begin with.

The team has been ravaged by injuries. Bowlen is going to fire him after that? Without giving him a chance to at least field a full roster?

We're literally playing a preseason defense out there, folks. Rookies and back-ups. We're missing 3 of our 4 best defenders, among other role players.


McDaniels will get at least another season, like it or not.

I'd like to say I agree....and that McD will get another season.
However if this team doesn't respond by coming out and playing their Asses off the rest of the way, and instead starts mailing it in , like last week then I think Bowlen may have no choice but to make a change to keep the fan base coming to games. And the Press in Denver will get unmerciful, (they are already starting). Maybe keep McD as an Offensive Coordinator, QB coach but bring in a more experienced HC. (I don't think McD would accept it, but he might just be humbled enough to do so.)


Marty Shottenheimer would be a good choice to get the team back to respectable, as he has shown he knows how to build winners, and besides he has made stops at almost every other West team.

bendog
10-26-2010, 09:09 AM
Both teams were very solid coming into the season and are both far underperforming expectations. Injuries are the primary reason in the case of the Packers, I'm not sure what to make of New Orleans.

Pack's tied with Chi in their division. And Chi's tanking. New Orleans is just suffering the fate of most other champions. But both teams have as many injury concerns, or more, than Den.

loborugger
10-26-2010, 09:09 AM
Both teams were very solid coming into the season and are both far underperforming expectations. Injuries are the primary reason in the case of the Packers, I'm not sure what to make of New Orleans.

New Orleans 'D' is all about getting turnovers. Last year, they lived by it. This year, they are dying by it.

colonelbeef
10-26-2010, 09:11 AM
McDaniels is going to get 3 years minimum, and the Broncos should give it to him, even if it leads to a 5-11 like it seems it might.

You cant go around firing coaches so quickly after expressing such confidence only a year earlier- the Broncos as an organization made a definitive choice, and now they have to see it through.

DarkHorse30
10-26-2010, 09:12 AM
I've been defending him when there was something to defend.....there appears to be nothing left.

McDaniels is proving to be a TERRIBLE game-day coach, especially in the biggest games. Should we all "wait" for him to learn how to be a coach? Why? I say start over again.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 09:14 AM
Meh. Our lack of talent got exposed once teams had us figured out. It was a mediocre to poor defense after week 6 for the most part.

You can "meh" all you want, but the fire died when McDaniels undermined his defensive coordinator in the same way that it died when he undermined his teams efforts three weeks in a row.

Personally, I don't think the problem is that McDaniels is a bad coach so much as I think the problem is that he's way too young to command enough respect over a season to get it accomplished.

For my part, I can't help but think he's a lame duck at this point. I don't think a team can lose like that to a team as bad as the Raiders and ever really own that locker room again. I think the idea that we have to mandatorily give him the team for full three seasons is folly. I think the guy is on notice right now, and has to show between now and January that he is in control of this team, and it is making clear progress. And frankly, I don't know if he's got the communication skills to do that.

loborugger
10-26-2010, 09:15 AM
McDaniels is going to get 3 years minimum, and the Broncos should give it to him, even if it leads to a 5-11 like it seems it might.

You cant go around firing coaches so quickly after expressing such confidence only a year earlier- the Broncos as an organization made a definitive choice, and now they have to see it through.

This.

Dude changed the team from a 4 - 3 to a 3 - 4, from a ZBS team to a power blocking team, and a predominantly running team to a predominantly passing team. A lot of things need to be changed to accomplish that. Further, we have talent issues in the front 7 and on the O Line. If he gets canned now or at the end of this season than its just an uncompleted project that someone else has to pick up. If he continues to fail when he gets players in place, than he should get the ax.

Mile High Shack
10-26-2010, 09:18 AM
You can "meh" all you want, but the fire died when McDaniels undermined his defensive coordinator in the same way that it died when he undermined his teams efforts three weeks in a row.

Personally, I don't think the problem is that McDaniels is a bad coach so much as I think the problem is that he's way too young to command enough respect over a season to get it accomplished.

For my part, I can't help but think he's a lame duck at this point. I don't think a team can lose like that to a team as bad as the Raiders and ever really own that locker room again. I think the idea that we have to mandatorily give him the team for full three seasons is folly. I think the guy is on notice right now, and has to show between now and January that he is in control of this team, and it is making clear progress. And frankly, I don't know if he's got the communication skills to do that.

Nailed it

McD might be a good coach eventually, but just like Shanny with the Raiders, he was too young to get it. Unfortunately for us, we were his internship.

bendog
10-26-2010, 09:29 AM
Nailed it

McD might be a good coach eventually, but just like Shanny with the Raiders, he was too young to get it. Unfortunately for us, we were his internship.

I agree, except the wildcard is the looming labor work stoppage and the fact that Shanny's getting 3.5 mil next year. IF the fans revolt in the second half of this season, or IF the CBA somehow is magically resolved and it looks like we'll see a summer training camp in 2011, then Bowlen may have to make the move.

Rock Chalk
10-26-2010, 09:31 AM
Same players, same result. Smoke and mirrors get exposed. But the DC isn't in charge of personnel with McDaniels as the HC.

btw, if you call him "Josh" can I call him "Tiny."? (-:

So you think its fair to judge McDaniels on personell decisions when he had to overhaul a **** defense and kept only two starters in basically a season and 6 games?

I mean, Shanahan left us with a complete cluster **** on defense and Nolan was able to do wonders with smoke and mirrors in 6 games but god damn man, you cant expect a top 10 defense in one or even two offseasons when you have to replace 9 starters and most of the backups.

colonelbeef
10-26-2010, 09:34 AM
So you think its fair to judge McDaniels on personell decisions when he had to overhaul a **** defense and kept only two starters in basically a season and 6 games?

I mean, Shanahan left us with a complete cluster **** on defense and Nolan was able to do wonders with smoke and mirrors in 6 games but god damn man, you cant expect a top 10 defense in one or even two offseasons when you have to replace 9 starters and most of the backups.

He has ruined the offense and the defense hasn't improved, end of story.

bendog
10-26-2010, 09:35 AM
7 picks in the top 50 and the team is worse after two years. Yeah, I can judge on that. He may be a hell of an OC, but he's incompetent as a head coach. Like Taco said, he may grow into the job, but I don't think it'll be in Denver ... unless Tebow plays like Rapesburger did in his rookie season.

The 2008 broncos were 15th in scoring despite having more injuries on offense that this team has had. Den can't run the ball for ****e. Two years, and it's not better.

UboBronco
10-26-2010, 09:38 AM
No way Josh is gone this year or next. If there is a strike/holdout/work stoppage, the coaches will still get paid.. No way Bowlen pays Josh on his deal and another "new" coach for a year with no play.

Let us just hope Josh can learn from this past game and meet the expectations he and the front office both have.

TonyR
10-26-2010, 09:41 AM
You can "meh" all you want, but the fire died when McDaniels undermined his defensive coordinator...

I don't disagree with the rest of your post but I can't fully agree with this part. You think it's a better argument that McD's "meddling" was more instrumental to the decline of the defense than the fact that it was devoid of talent and teams figured out how to beat it after 6 weeks of game tape?

Beantown Bronco
10-26-2010, 09:41 AM
People keep pointing to Nolan.

He did admirably in the first 6 games but the remaining 10 games the team defense was just as bad as it was the previous year.

Well yeah. That's when Josh stepped in and started dictating.

You can "meh" all you want, but the fire died when McDaniels undermined his defensive coordinator in the same way that it died when he undermined his teams efforts three weeks in a row.

Taco,

Your timeline is a little screwed up. It's been pretty well established that the Indy game was the point where McD and Nolan began disagreeing and where McD started to get more involved. That was Week 14.....not week 7. Big difference.

Nolan sucks as a DC. I said it before week one last year and I haven't stopped saying it. He can do well for awhile, but sooner or later (usually by November) his true colors appear and his defenses fold. It's been his MO his entire career. People love to put him on some pedestal for some reason, but just watch. Miami's defense will be well below average by the end of this season. Currently, they are ranked 10th in the NFL and that's only because of their schedule. They've faced the 28th, 20th, 19th, 17th and 11th ranked offenses. Wow.

TonyR
10-26-2010, 09:46 AM
Nolan sucks as a DC. I said it before week one last year and I haven't stopped saying it. He can do well for awhile, but sooner or later (usually by November) his true colors appear and his defenses fold. It's been his MO his entire career. People love to put him on some pedestal for some reason, but just watch.

I think "sucks" is a little strong but it is telling that he never stays put for very long.

Hulamau
10-26-2010, 09:51 AM
i think it's a bit (aww hell! it's a lot) early to thiink about firing McD. Are we a bunch of embarassed, emotional crybabies right now? Yes (raising hand), but let's see how the rest of the Season turns out. Lets give McD the chance to rally the troops even though they are a rag tag bunch of the walking wounded. We might actually be happily surprised with the results-

I think we all go through some tough times in life, and this may well be McD's-

Excellent post bronclvr!

uplink
10-26-2010, 09:53 AM
Go on to Mile High Report and check out the article posted on Monday about firing a coach mid season. It's eye opening and I wish the haters on here would read it before their "fire him" ****.

I guess you didn't read my post well, or there is a misunderstanding about what I meant. Yeah I do have the words 'McD' and 'firing' in the post but the rest of the message gives the context the words are used in etc etc.

small chance = lets say less than .1 % chance, but not zero!
I like him as a coach = I'm not a hater

But the broncos were an embarrassment over the weekend and these things don't just get pushed under the rug.

Hamrob
10-26-2010, 09:56 AM
The real reason that McD should and will be fired IMO, is because of how he drafted. This guy was supposed to be an offensive genius. So, what has he done since coming to Denver? He took a pretty good offense and totally blew it up. He took a pretty bad defense and hasn't done anything IMO to improve it. He's had more draft picks then just about anyone could have to try and improve this team. You would think (I would think) that he would concentrate on getting talent for the deficiencies...such as D and special teams. You would think (I would think) that our offense would have been servicable with guys like Gaffney, Royal, Lloyd, Orton and a few Free Agents. Couldn't Josh have made that into a pretty good offense...while he rebuilt the rest of the team. That would have been a good plan (again in my opinion), but take a look at where he's spent all those high round picks:


1 12 Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia
1 181 Robert Ayers DE Tennessee (DEFENSE)
1 22 Demaryius Thomas WR Georgia Tech
1 25 Tim Tebow QB Florida

2 37 Alphonso Smith CB Wake Forest (DEFENSE)
2 48 Darcel McBath S Texas Tech (DEFENSE)
2 64 Richard Quinn TE North Carolina
2 45 Zane Beadles T Utah

3 80 J.D. Walton C Baylor
3 87 Eric Decker WR Minnesota

That's 7 Offensive guys to 3 Defensive guys. Can you imagine how much different this team might be if we had used those other 7 on defense...or even 3-4 of those picks on defense?

Here's a guy who is supposed to be able to make Rembrandt's out of chalk and he uses all his ammo on Offensive players. What gives? He may actually be a good coach...who knows...but, he has no business being a personell guy.

baja
10-26-2010, 09:59 AM
Taco,

Your timeline is a little screwed up. It's been pretty well established that the Indy game was the point where McD and Nolan began disagreeing and where McD started to get more involved. That was Week 14.....not week 7. Big difference.

Nolan sucks as a DC. I said it before week one last year and I haven't stopped saying it. He can do well for awhile, but sooner or later (usually by November) his true colors appear and his defenses fold. It's been his MO his entire career. People love to put him on some pedestal for some reason, but just watch. Miami's defense will be well below average by the end of this season. Currently, they are ranked 10th in the NFL and that's only because of their schedule. They've faced the 28th, 20th, 19th, 17th and 11th ranked offenses. Wow.

Nolan is a top ten sideline dresser and Josh is a hoodie guy they was bound to be friction.

Beantown Bronco
10-26-2010, 10:09 AM
The real reason that McD should and will be fired IMO, is because of how he drafted. This guy was supposed to be an offensive genius. So, what has he done since coming to Denver? He took a pretty good offense and totally blew it up. He took a pretty bad defense and hasn't done anything IMO to improve it.

I love how one person says something on the Mane and then another person latches on, then another....as if it's somehow fact. Here, it's the good old "McD has done nothing to try to improve the defense. Pure BS.

The draft is just one of several ways to improve a unit. And it is the least likely, I might add, to actually improve a unit that year or even the next year. Seriously. For the millionth time I'll ask: who could they have drafted in 09 or 10 to make an impact last year or this year in the 3-4 defense? Who?

Back to the original point though. Again, the draft is just one of several ways to improve a unit. What about trades? What about FAs?

He's brought in SEVERAL defensive FAs and traded for defensive players. Those count too you know. You can say that you didn't like the moves, that maybe they didn't all work out, etc. But what you can't say is that he hasn't at least TRIED to improve the unit.

NFLBRONCO
10-26-2010, 10:11 AM
I have done some thinking (Scary I know) and this is what I go back and forth on. Imo its a bad idea making a knee jerk decision after this awful game.

Alot of message boards want McD fired after this season because he doesn't win enough games. I'm not on the fire McD's bandwagon yet but, I do think the points SSJ made is could very well end up true.

Should we fire McD's after this season

1. While I know NFL is about wins and losses as it should be. Record: 10-13 so far

a. Can you win alot of games with zero pass rush zero running game NO
b. Can you win alot of games with your few best players hurt or out most or all of the year: NO
c. I know injuries are part of the game but, when you lack great players losing your best ones will take its toll inexperienced HC or not.

If we end up with 5 or less wins this year but, are fighting hard in games but, losing would I hope McD gets fired at the end of the year: No

If we win 5 or less games this year and have several blowout losses like Raider game. Would I want Bowlen to fire McD: yes but, still wonder if its too soon to give up on him with reasons posted above

Do you think Tebow factor buys McD's time regardless of record or blowouts this year

Thoughts

bendog
10-26-2010, 10:26 AM
With two years and 7 picks in the top fifty and taking over a .500 team that had a top 5 passing attack, there's no excuse to not have a running game and front 7.

Gutless Drunk
10-26-2010, 10:28 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/don_banks/10/26/nfl-coaches-hot-seat/1.html

"Speaking of center stage, in the case of both Singletary and McDaniels, this week's trip to London for the NFL's annual international series game at Wembley Stadium is probably a welcomed chance to leave the continent for a while. The 49ers and Broncos have been disaster stories thus far this season, and Denver's 59-14 home-field loss to division rival Oakland on Sunday prompted McDaniels to apologize to team owner Pat Bowlen, the organization and its fans. The Raiders' point total was the highest in the 51-season history of the franchise.

McDaniels is now 4-13 as the Broncos head coach since starting last year with that mirage-like 6-0 getaway, and Bowlen was said to be livid with the team's embarrassment before its home crowd. Bowlen took a sizable risk in firing Mike Shanahan and hiring the 32-year-old McDaniels in early 2009, and the former Patriots offensive coordinator has done nothing lately to disprove the notion that he wasn't near ready for the job he was given.

McDaniels' fate was thought to be tied to the development of 2010 first-round pick Tim Tebow, but now it's an open question as to whether the coach will even be around in Denver when a verdict is rendered on Tebow's viability as an NFL quarterback. The most intriguing question remaining for the Broncos this season is whether McDaniels will try to save his job and the team's season by inserting Tebow into the lineup ahead of starter Kyle Orton, who has cooled off but hardly been the primary problem in Denver thus far. Unless Tebow can play defense, or single-handedly rescue the team's woeful running game, the Broncos looked doomed to a rock-bottom experience this season.

If the Broncos do turn things over to a new head coach in 2011 or sooner, he'll inherit a roster that McDaniels has vastly transformed in his two years on the job. From trading off Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall, to acquiring the personnel to install a 3-4 defense, McDaniels has the team he chose to build. That means Denver's next head coach would likely face starting over from scratch, and another rebuilding of the roster.

But even the prospect of another extensive overhaul doesn't offer job security these days for an NFL head coach. As one NFL source put it to me: "That doesn't buy you time as a head coach any more. It's too much of a win-now league for that. Owners will still blow it up and start over if things get bad enough.''

For now, with their combined 4-16 record this season, Phillips, Singletary and McDaniels are staring down the darkest days of their coaching tenures. The NFL's firing season hasn't started yet, but it will commence soon enough. And chances are, with their losing numbers, their names will be among the first called."

Taco John
10-26-2010, 10:35 AM
The most intriguing question remaining for the Broncos this season is whether McDaniels will try to save his job and the team's season by inserting Tebow into the lineup ahead of starter Kyle Orton, who has cooled off but hardly been the primary problem in Denver thus far.

I personally wonder if Tebow will be our starter coming out of the bye week to face Kansas City.

bendog
10-26-2010, 10:43 AM
I just don't see how starting Tebow saves McDaniel's job. It would be a desperation move, and admitting the year is lost. All but the blind have to notice that McDaniel's took over a team with very little talent in the front 7 and interior oline, and he hasn't made it better despite using 7 top 50 picks. A rookie quarterback will not be an improvement over Orton, so the game results will be worse. That's not gonna make the people who bought tix happier. It'd almost be better to limp through this year and have a ticket renewal drive on Tebowtime. But damn if I'd renew season tix to see the faide hang 60.

baja
10-26-2010, 10:43 AM
I love how one person says something on the Mane and then another person latches on, then another....as if it's somehow fact. Here, it's the good old "McD has done nothing to try to improve the defense. Pure BS.

The draft is just one of several ways to improve a unit. And it is the least likely, I might add, to actually improve a unit that year or even the next year. Seriously. For the millionth time I'll ask: who could they have drafted in 09 or 10 to make an impact last year or this year in the 3-4 defense? Who?

Back to the original point though. Again, the draft is just one of several ways to improve a unit. What about trades? What about FAs?

He's brought in SEVERAL defensive FAs and traded for defensive players. Those count too you know. You can say that you didn't like the moves, that maybe they didn't all work out, etc. But what you can't say is that he hasn't at least TRIED to improve the unit.

don't forget scouring cell phone kiosks

bendog
10-26-2010, 10:53 AM
He's brought in SEVERAL defensive FAs and traded for defensive players. Those count too you know. You can say that you didn't like the moves, that maybe they didn't all work out, etc. But what you can't say is that he hasn't at least TRIED to improve the unit.
-
Get good or get gone.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 10:54 AM
I just don't see how starting Tebow saves McDaniel's job. It would be a desperation move, and admitting the year is lost. All but the blind have to notice that McDaniel's took over a team with very little talent in the front 7 and interior oline, and he hasn't made it better despite using 7 top 50 picks. A rookie quarterback will not be an improvement over Orton, so the game results will be worse. That's not gonna make the people who bought tix happier. It'd almost be better to limp through this year and have a ticket renewal drive on Tebowtime. But damn if I'd renew season tix to see the faide hang 60.


I think Tebow is a better leader than Orton. Orton is a guy who just goes out there and does his job at the highest level he can. But what he doesn't seem to have is the sort of fire that gets people turned around. Tebow is a fiery leader. When we got down by 3 touchdowns, Orton looked stunned. Tebow would be up and down the sidelines firing guys up and being a visible leader. That's what this team is sorely missing right now: an offensive leader. As much as I like Orton for being a good guy who just goes out and gets it done, he's not a leader. He's not a focal point to rally around. He's not going to rally the troops. That's just not his personality.

I think that the team would respond to Tebow. I don't know if Tebow would be a better quarterback than Orton. But I do think that Tebow would claim ownership of the offense, and as a result, it would be a better team.

TailgateNut
10-26-2010, 10:55 AM
I just don't see how starting Tebow saves McDaniel's job. It would be a desperation move, and admitting the year is lost. All but the blind have to notice that McDaniel's took over a team with very little talent in the front 7 and interior oline, and he hasn't made it better despite using 7 top 50 picks. A rookie quarterback will not be an improvement over Orton, so the game results will be worse. That's not gonna make the people who bought tix happier. It'd almost be better to limp through this year and have a ticket renewal drive on Tebowtime. But damn if I'd renew season tix to see the faide hang 60.

Why even bring this up 'cause 99% of the whiners on this site don't attend a single ****ing game. They just whine and bitch and moan!

TonyR
10-26-2010, 10:58 AM
I just don't see how starting Tebow saves McDaniel's job. It would be a desperation move...

Seriously. I don't see a guy who's yet to attempt a pass in the NFL is going to be starting ahead of Kyle Orton any time soon. McD hasn't even begun to take off the training wheels yet.

TailgateNut
10-26-2010, 11:00 AM
Seriously. I don't see a guy who's yet to attempt a pass in the NFL is going to be starting ahead of Kyle Orton any time soon. McD hasn't even begun to take off the training wheels yet.


...and hopefully wont anytime soon...

Dagmar
10-26-2010, 11:02 AM
The most intriguing question remaining for the Broncos this season is whether McDaniels will try to save his job and the team's season by inserting Tebow into the lineup ahead of starter Kyle Orton, who has cooled off but hardly been the primary problem in Denver thus far.

I personally wonder if Tebow will be our starter coming out of the bye week to face Kansas City.

You are pushing this agenda something fierce. Orton is hugely respected in the locker room and is not this team's problem.

Cue Taco's ""no no, I am not suggesting it, even though I have been the most vocal poster doing so..."

baja
10-26-2010, 11:05 AM
I think Tebow is a better leader than Orton. Orton is a guy who just goes out there and does his job at the highest level he can. But what he doesn't seem to have is the sort of fire that gets people turned around. Tebow is a fiery leader. When we got down by 3 touchdowns, Orton looked stunned. Tebow would be up and down the sidelines firing guys up and being a visible leader. That's what this team is sorely missing right now: an offensive leader. As much as I like Orton for being a good guy who just goes out and gets it done, he's not a leader. He's not a focal point to rally around. He's not going to rally the troops. That's just not his personality.

I think that the team would respond to Tebow. I don't know if Tebow would be a better quarterback than Orton. But I do think that Tebow would claim ownership of the offense, and as a result, it would be a better team.

Are you really calling for a QB change? Some things never change.

If Josh were to start Tebow after the break he would lose me as a supporter. That would be ridiculous

Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:06 AM
You are pushing this agenda something fierce. Orton is hugely respected in the locker room and is not this team's problem.

Cue Taco's ""no no, I am not suggesting it, even though I have been the most vocal poster doing so..."


I can't help but read the tea leaves. In my job, I'm constantly forced to look forward and interpret the trends, and it's become a natural tendancy for me in all aspects of my life.

Tebow being our starter is inevitable. The only question really is when. It's probably the most relevant question facing our team right now outside of whether or not Josh makes it to 2011. And I think the Tebow question could be closely tied to that matter.

I like Orton a lot. But he's not our future and McDaniels has made that clear by how he handled his contract and his moves to get Tebow.

Taco John
10-26-2010, 11:07 AM
Are you really calling for a QB change? Some things never change.

I'm not "calling" for it. I'm just expecting it to happen sooner rather than we had imagined. Maybe errantly. But we heard the Tebow chants on the field this last week. That's going to be a continuing distraction.

Dagmar
10-26-2010, 11:10 AM
I can't help but read the tea leaves. In my job, I'm constantly forced to look forward and interpret the trends, and it's become a natural tendancy for me in all aspects of my life.

Tebow being our starter is inevitable. The only question really is when. It's probably the most relevant question facing our team right now outside of whether or not Josh makes it to 2011. And I think the Tebow question could be closely tied to that matter.

I like Orton a lot. But he's not our future and McDaniels has made that clear by how he handled his contract and his moves to get Tebow.

Fair enough then. You have been the most vocal poster on this site suggesting this move though.

bronclvr
10-26-2010, 11:12 AM
Excellent post bronclvr!


Thank you! I don't get many positive comments here, so I will take 'em when I can get 'em-

bronclvr
10-26-2010, 11:21 AM
I think Tebow is a better leader than Orton. Orton is a guy who just goes out there and does his job at the highest level he can. But what he doesn't seem to have is the sort of fire that gets people turned around. Tebow is a fiery leader. When we got down by 3 touchdowns, Orton looked stunned. Tebow would be up and down the sidelines firing guys up and being a visible leader. That's what this team is sorely missing right now: an offensive leader. As much as I like Orton for being a good guy who just goes out and gets it done, he's not a leader. He's not a focal point to rally around. He's not going to rally the troops. That's just not his personality.

I think that the team would respond to Tebow. I don't know if Tebow would be a better quarterback than Orton. But I do think that Tebow would claim ownership of the offense, and as a result, it would be a better team.

I agree with everything in this Post-excellent points (although I voted for waiting to put Tebow in in your Poll)-there are certainly up and downsides to the Tebow dilemna, but hey, Shannahan did it with Cutler-

bronclvr
10-26-2010, 11:23 AM
Why even bring this up 'cause 99% of the whiners on this site don't attend a single ****ing game.

By the way, I liked your "Raider hater's Club" airbrushed sign-

bendog
10-26-2010, 11:23 AM
I think Tebow is a better leader than Orton. Orton is a guy who just goes out there and does his job at the highest level he can. But what he doesn't seem to have is the sort of fire that gets people turned around. Tebow is a fiery leader. When we got down by 3 touchdowns, Orton looked stunned. Tebow would be up and down the sidelines firing guys up and being a visible leader. That's what this team is sorely missing right now: an offensive leader. As much as I like Orton for being a good guy who just goes out and gets it done, he's not a leader. He's not a focal point to rally around. He's not going to rally the troops. That's just not his personality.

I think that the team would respond to Tebow. I don't know if Tebow would be a better quarterback than Orton. But I do think that Tebow would claim ownership of the offense, and as a result, it would be a better team.

I just don't see how the players respond positively to benching a veteran who isn't playing that badly, unless it's done in the vein of "well, hell, let's stick a fork in it and see if the rook's got any chops." I guess that if Tebow came in and showed some promise it would placate the seas tix holders, and if the team loses on Sunday I'd guess that 4 wins total would be optimistic. But, Tebow projected as a project qb with a significant bust risk. Imo the guy is worth the risk because of his high caliber personality and work ethic. But I think he'd really struggle. For Tebow's and the broncos best interests, I hope it doesn't happen. I will say that one of the stupidist things I've seen is a rookie head coach replacing a hall of famer by coming in and blowing up the quarterback position, but McDaniel's tenure has been one of curious decisions and huge ego. The guy seems to be a passing game guru though, and in time he may become a good head coach.

TailgateNut
10-26-2010, 12:18 PM
By the way, I liked your "Raider hater's Club" airbrushed sign-


Did I meet you, or were you part of the "igognito crowd"? Lot's of people wanted photos of the set up.

bronclvr
10-26-2010, 12:19 PM
Did I meet you, or were you part of the "igognito crowd"? Lot's of people wanted photos of the set up.

Part of the wasn't invited crowd-

Popps
10-26-2010, 12:32 PM
i think it's a bit (aww hell! it's a lot) early to thiink about firing McD. Are we a bunch of embarassed, emotional crybabies right now? Yes (raising hand), but let's see how the rest of the Season turns out. Lets give McD the chance to rally the troops even though they are a rag tag bunch of the walking wounded. We might actually be happily surprised with the results-

I think we all go through some tough times in life, and this may well be McD's-

Sh#tty thread, but bronclvr with the save.

Josh McDaniels
10-26-2010, 12:53 PM
Calm down phag-os, I got this.

fontaine
10-26-2010, 01:02 PM
Funny, the saints and the packers don't trot out the injury excuse.


Speaking of the Packers, thats who cut Stanley Daniels because he wasn't deemed athletic enough to play in a zone blocking scheme.

The Pack cut him (I think he was undrafted) and Josh took him and put him into the starting LG position.

That was the plan for the power blocking scheme. Get castoffs like Baptiste and Daniels along with a rookie center, put it all together and there's your power blocking scheme.

You get what you put in.

TailgateNut
10-26-2010, 01:12 PM
Part of the wasn't invited crowd-

I didn't see anyone post shiate in the tailgate thread so I assumed no one was going.
I guess I should use my crystal ball in the future and send out personalized invites, or you could have just asked someone where the old grouch was and introduced yourself.

Actually I cringe at the attitudes many of the OM members have about our team when we are not winning every damn game. I deal with a bunch of assholes at work during thew week and I don't really need to subject myself to that type of personality on game day.

BroncosMT
10-26-2010, 01:15 PM
Do we honestly think that Orton is the problem here??? The passing game has not been the issue....its the major lack of a running game and the defense that is sooo porous with people who can't tackle or cover, and injuries that are the issues. Oakland was smart in playing nickle and dime all day because they knew we couldn't run at all.

My only question is at the beginning of the season we saw Dawkins and Bailey, who have been in this league a long time, go to major bat for this guy when they didn't need to. He has to have some leadership skills to make trusted veterans like that want to follow him.

baja
10-26-2010, 01:19 PM
Thank you! I don't get many positive comments here, so I will take 'em when I can get 'em-

I like your avatar. Doest that count?

bronclvr
10-26-2010, 01:27 PM
I didn't see anyone post shiate in the tailgate thread so I assumed no one was going.
I guess I should use my crystal ball in the future and send out personalized invites, or you could have just asked someone where the old grouch was and introduced yourself.

Actually I cringe at the attitudes many of the OM members have about our team when we are not winning every damn game. I deal with a bunch of a-holes at work during thew week and I don't really need to subject myself to that type of personality on game day.

Whoa there Hoss! I can certainly understand your position, and did not come into your Party for some of the very reasons you posted, I know I wouldn't want people crashing mine.

You don't need to attack, as I don't deserve it-I respect people's parties, and don't crash them or be crude, rude or impose on people I don't personally know-I was simply trying to let you know that I thought your Banner was a great one, that someone had put some serious time into thinking about it/making it, and that I admired it-take your hate somewhere else-

jhns
10-26-2010, 01:29 PM
My only question is at the beginning of the season we saw Dawkins and Bailey, who have been in this league a long time, go to major bat for this guy when they didn't need to. He has to have some leadership skills to make trusted veterans like that want to follow him.

I don't get why this is used as a reason for anything. Bailey backs every single person involved with this team. He had nothing but good things to say about guys like Marshall and Cutler. If this is your justification for anything, you should have been pissed at McDaniels a long time ago.

Anyways, Orton is not doing anything to win games here. What has he done that is so special to everyone? Throw for some yards? That is great and all but where have the points been? Where has Orton been near the end of close games? Orton isn't the biggest problem on this team. He also hasn't proven to be part of the solution.

BroncosSR
10-26-2010, 01:31 PM
The only way Tebow should get in this year is due to injury to Orton...which isn't out of the realm of possibility...

BroncosSR
10-26-2010, 01:32 PM
Anyways, Orton is not doing anything to win games here. What has he done that is so special to everyone? Throw for some yards? That is great and all but where have the points been? Where has Orton been near the end of close games? Orton isn't the biggest problem on this team. He also hasn't proven to be part of the solution.

I at least agree with you on this...

TailgateNut
10-26-2010, 01:37 PM
Whoa there Hoss! I can certainly understand your position, and did not come into your Party for some of the very reasons you posted, I know I wouldn't want people crashing mine.

You don't need to attack, as I don't deserve it-I respect people's parties, and don't crash them or be crude, rude or impose on people I don't personally know-I was simply trying to let you know that I thought your Banner was a great one, that someone had put some serious time into thinking about it/making it, and that I admired it-take your hate somewhere else-

You misunderstood my post. I wasn't attacking you, just saying I can't read minds.

If you had posted something in the tailgate thread I definately would have sent an invite for you to stop by. The types of jerkoffs I am referring to are of the BF7, jhns, gobroncos, colonelbeef variety. ...and if jerkoffs like that show up, they are asked once to GTFO before things get messy.

bronclvr
10-26-2010, 01:42 PM
You misunderstood my post. I wasn't attacking you, just saying I can't read minds.

If you had posted something in the tailgate thread I definately would have sent an invite for you to stop by. The types of jerkoffs I am referring to are of the BF7, jhns, gobroncos, colonelbeef variety. ...and if jerkoffs like that show up, they are asked once to GTFO before things get messy.

Thanks for clearing that up, I did not know the protocol for Tailgating-darn, you have shattered my image of you-I thought you had that mustache because you were the great Houdini-:strong:

jhns
10-26-2010, 01:44 PM
The types of jerkoffs I am referring to are of the BF7, jhns, gobroncos, colonelbeef variety. ...and if jerkoffs like that show up, they are asked once to GTFO before things get messy.

LOL

What do you mean by messy? Are you planning on creaming your pants at my good looks?

bendog
10-26-2010, 01:50 PM
mr. internet tough guy. lol

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=internet%20tough%20guy

baja
10-26-2010, 03:04 PM
I don't get why this is used as a reason for anything. Bailey backs every single person involved with this team. He had nothing but good things to say about guys like Marshall and Cutler. If this is your justification for anything, you should have been pissed at McDaniels a long time ago.

Anyways, Orton is not doing anything to win games here. What has he done that is so special to everyone? Throw for some yards? That is great and all but where have the points been? Where has Orton been near the end of close games? Orton isn't the biggest problem on this team. He also hasn't proven to be part of the solution.

Sometimes I play a little game, I read a post without looking to see who wrote it and try to guess who it is. I almost always guess yours right and I almost aways guess Derk's right but the similarity ends there.

bronclvr
10-26-2010, 03:17 PM
Broncos owner won't comment on Raiders debacle

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on October 26, 2010 5:56 PM ET
Josh McDaniels decided to practice in Denver this week before flying to London on Thursday night for the game. (The 49ers arrived in London Sunday night.)

McDaniels probably thought it was best to stay in a comfortable environment as long as possible, but Denver is not a comfortable place to be right now. One day after the city went a little crazy, He logically thought he'd stay comfortable as long as possible before, fans are still furious.

The Broncos went back to work Tuesday because of their odd week, and McDaniels tried to look ahead.

"I think our team knows it is capable of much better, our staff knows it is capable of much better, and to sit there and belabor it at this point, when it is going to interfere with a day we're using to prepare for our next opponent, I think we did what we did what we needed to do and put it behind us, and our focus is solely on the 49ers," McDaniels said, via the Denver Post.

McDaniels has undoubtedly reached a crossroads in his young career. For now, his bosses aren't saying anything on the matter. Broncos owner Pat Bowlen and his right-hand man Joe Ellis declined to comment to the Denver Post about the Raiders blowout.

Maybe they know they can't really say anything that will help. Maybe they are just seeing how McDaniels and the team responds.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/26/broncos-owner-wont-comment-on-raiders-debacle/

ScottXray
10-26-2010, 03:36 PM
Are you really calling for a QB change? Some things never change.

If Josh were to start Tebow after the break he would lose me as a supporter. That would be ridiculous

+1 .
Taking the best QB out to insert a rookie, no matter what his "potential" is should only be done if said rookie has actually earned it. You do that in Practice, and one thing I trust McD on is QB evaluation. I would say he does NOT think Tebow is ready , and that Orton is our best shot.

Not only would he lose what fan base he still has....he would probably REALLY lose the team at that point.

McDman
10-26-2010, 04:08 PM
It amazes me people are blaming this on Orton. The guy had maybe two seconds at the most on 90% of his drop backs.

Not even Peyton would be able to pull that one off.

TonyR
10-26-2010, 04:59 PM
Pat Bowlen and his right-hand man Joe Ellis declined to comment...

What can they say? They're more to blame than anyone, really. They gave McDaniels complete control of the organization, this after Bowlen said he wouldn't do that again, so they better be confident that this is just a bump in the road and not the end of it.

Dudeskey
10-26-2010, 05:48 PM
I've been defending him when there was something to defend.....there appears to be nothing left.

McDaniels is proving to be a TERRIBLE game-day coach, especially in the biggest games. Should we all "wait" for him to learn how to be a coach? Why? I say start over again.

I've been in "wait and see" mode since he got here, now I'm starting to think this isn't the right guy for the job. Bowlen really stepped in it when he didn't go out & hire a GM first, then let the GM hire the coach. But this team really needs a HC with experience thats willing to face the challenges of getting this team back on track. Hopefully Ellis' dumb ass will do it right this time, or Bowlen will just prove there is a god & fire his ass too.

WolfpackGuy
10-26-2010, 05:53 PM
Bowlen is probably gonna say he forgot he hired him.

Hamrob
10-26-2010, 06:04 PM
I love how one person says something on the Mane and then another person latches on, then another....as if it's somehow fact. Here, it's the good old "McD has done nothing to try to improve the defense. Pure BS.

The draft is just one of several ways to improve a unit. And it is the least likely, I might add, to actually improve a unit that year or even the next year. Seriously. For the millionth time I'll ask: who could they have drafted in 09 or 10 to make an impact last year or this year in the 3-4 defense? Who?

Back to the original point though. Again, the draft is just one of several ways to improve a unit. What about trades? What about FAs?

He's brought in SEVERAL defensive FAs and traded for defensive players. Those count too you know. You can say that you didn't like the moves, that maybe they didn't all work out, etc. But what you can't say is that he hasn't at least TRIED to improve the unit.Say whatever the hell you want...McD has not improved the Defense. He has not improved the Offense. And overall this team is worse two years later than it was when he was hired. He is in over his head. The sooner you figure that out...the sooner you might know what you're talking about.

59-14 - McD!

Wes Mantooth
10-26-2010, 06:58 PM
He needs 3 years.

colonelbeef
10-26-2010, 10:26 PM
I didn't see anyone post shiate in the tailgate thread so I assumed no one was going.
I guess I should use my crystal ball in the future and send out personalized invites, or you could have just asked someone where the old grouch was and introduced yourself.

Actually I cringe at the attitudes many of the OM members have about our team when we are not winning every damn game. I deal with a bunch of a-holes at work during thew week and I don't really need to subject myself to that type of personality on game day.

so, how was the game?

colonelbeef
10-26-2010, 10:27 PM
You misunderstood my post. I wasn't attacking you, just saying I can't read minds.

If you had posted something in the tailgate thread I definately would have sent an invite for you to stop by. The types of jerkoffs I am referring to are of the BF7, jhns, gobroncos, colonelbeef variety. ...and if jerkoffs like that show up, they are asked once to GTFO before things get messy.

messy, as in too much barbeque sauce?

Jesterhole
10-27-2010, 04:54 AM
Sh#tty thread, but bronclvr with the save.

You have got to be the ****tiest poster here. Nothing but homerism and idiot opinions. You and Dagmar and Baja should start a little club...

The MVPlaya
10-27-2010, 04:56 AM
http://i52.tinypic.com/2djnxj8.gif

SleepingTiger
10-27-2010, 10:02 AM
I don't think he will be fired this year, because Bowlen would look stupid and wouldn't want the embarrassment to the franchise of having an interim head coach or something.

I think the end of the season is the earliest it happens, and only if we go something like 4-12 (which seems very possible at this point).

I don't think Bowlen cares about his pride or ego as much as he cares about his pocket. He is charging alot of money for a product that sucks right now, so when the stands starts being empty he will make a change. When his revenue is declining, he will have to make drastic changes.

Not only that, you talk about embarrassment. What is more embarrassing, admitting you hired the wrong coach or loosing to the below .500 raiders at home by 45 points??
I don't know about anybody else, but getting spanked by the raiders by 45 points is an all time low for this team. I can't remember something this bad since I started watching the Broncos in 84. Even the loss to the 49ers in the superbowl doesn't compare anything to this. In that game, we were expected to loose and nobody gave us a shot. The raider game was an absolute low point for this proud organization.

jhat01
10-27-2010, 10:09 AM
I don't know...That Jax loss was pretty damned bad.

TailgateNut
10-27-2010, 11:08 AM
I don't know...That Jax loss was pretty damned bad.

I was at that game too, but getting bitchslapped by the raiders hurts me more.

TailgateNut
10-27-2010, 11:11 AM
I don't think Bowlen cares about his pride or ego as much as he cares about his pocket. He is charging alot of money for a product that sucks right now, so when the stands starts being empty he will make a change. When his revenue is declining, he will have to make drastic changes.

Not only that, you talk about embarrassment. What is more embarrassing, admitting you hired the wrong coach or loosing to the below .500 raiders at home by 45 points??
I don't know about anybody else, but getting spanked by the raiders by 45 points is an all time low for this team. I can't remember something this bad since I started watching the Broncos in 84. Even the loss to the 49ers in the superbowl doesn't compare anything to this. In that game, we were expected to loose and nobody gave us a shot. The raider game was an absolute low point for this proud organization.


You obviously don't know shiate about the fans.

They are like Great white teeth. One falls out and another replaces it.

fontaine
10-27-2010, 12:19 PM
He needs 3 years.

At this rate, he'll need 30.

colonelbeef
10-27-2010, 03:41 PM
You obviously don't know shiate about the fans.

They are like Great white teeth. One falls out and another replaces it.

You obviously don't know anything about economics.

SleepingTiger
10-27-2010, 05:02 PM
You obviously don't know shiate about the fans.

They are like Great white teeth. One falls out and another replaces it.

calm down, I only know what I hear and see. I myself have never been to invesco and can't tell you how it is. According to many maners, Invesco is not the same as MH. Many of the hardcore fans can't afford the new ticket prices. there is a percentage of fans that only show up when we are winning. I also think this applies to his luxury boxes. Since Invesco has alot of luxury boxes, what do you think?

TailgateNut
10-27-2010, 07:44 PM
calm down, I only know what I hear and see. I myself have never been to invesco and can't tell you how it is. According to many maners, Invesco is not the same as MH. Many of the hardcore fans can't afford the new ticket prices. there is a percentage of fans that only show up when we are winning. I also think this applies to his luxury boxes. Since Invesco has alot of luxury boxes, what do you think?

I agree with part of your assesment. The fairweather fans and those who just own the right to make a profit are the worst. Then you have the ones who are just there for JesusBoy-equally sickening because he hasn't shown shiate. Then there's the ones who would be better served staying at home because they don't get involved in the game (the recliner crowd who is busy texting RESPECT about a fan who is cheering for his team a bit too loud for their comfort zone, or about the guy with the cowbell (ME)). Then you have the few remaining diehards who are getting more and more disgusted by the whole scene.

Now we'll head to the club level. What can I say, Business is business. Is there a game going on???

Then step it up to the suites. How's the caviar and lobster today, and I can recommend a great private chef and pilot......blah, blah, blah.......

wandlc
10-27-2010, 10:10 PM
Team 2008 2009 2010
KC 2-14 4-12 4-2
Jets 9-7 9-7 5-1
Rams 2-14 1-15 3-4
Lions 0-16 2-14 1-5
Broncos 8-8 8-8 2-5

All of these teams got new coaches after 2008. Why does McD need 3 years when everyone of these teams has improved and showing marked improvement this year. The Jets stayed the same last year with a rookie QB, the Lions improved with a rookie QB, KC improved with Cassel at QB, the Rams got worse but are already way ahead this year with a rookie QB.
The difference between these teams and the Broncos is they have real football management and the coaches just coach, maybe McD would be a better coach if that is all that he did, but we all know from his actions that that will never happen. So I do not believe that the current Broncos football model is valid and the only way to fix it is to let McD go.

footstepsfrom#27
10-28-2010, 12:08 AM
The problem with firing McDaniels, is that the same guy who hired him, will also hire the next coach.

SoCalBronco
10-28-2010, 12:20 AM
The problem with firing McDaniels, is that the same guy who hired him, will also hire the next coach.

Joe Ellis?

;D