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Quoydogs
10-21-2010, 08:20 AM
I was just watching NFLN and they announced that the 30-21 would have 3 QB's on it Elway and Marino would be 2 of those. :spit:

I felt like Deion, I wanted to start throwing things at the tv. How the hell is either one of them it the 20's. What a fricken Joke.

Beantown Bronco
10-21-2010, 08:35 AM
Engleberger should be coming up soon then.

jmz313
10-21-2010, 08:42 AM
Cause they had to make room for Both mannings, Brady, rivers, schaub, and Brees in the top 6. Chris Johnson and Derrell Revis prob help round out the top 8.

Los Broncos
10-21-2010, 08:50 AM
Boller will most likely be number one, he reminds me a lot of Plunkett.

Quoydogs
10-21-2010, 08:54 AM
I tried to find Deion freaking out on you tube but couldn't. That was some funny Sh@t there.

montrose
10-21-2010, 09:07 AM
This likely means, if I'm not mistaken, just 1 Bronco on the entire list - Elway.

Quoydogs
10-21-2010, 09:14 AM
This likely means, if I'm not mistaken, just 1 Bronco on the entire list - Elway.

The only other one could be TD but would he rank higher then Elway ?

baja
10-21-2010, 09:15 AM
I was just watching NFLN and they announced that the 30-21 would have 3 QB's on it Elway and Marino would be 2 of those. :spit:

I felt like Deion, I wanted to start throwing things at the tv. How the hell is either one of them it the 20's. What a fricken Joke.

Damn dude you edited this and it still doesn't make any sense.

colonelbeef
10-21-2010, 12:53 PM
Complete horse****.

Elway is a top 10 player all time, and best 2 or 3 QBs at worst.

Tombstone RJ
10-21-2010, 12:59 PM
This likely means, if I'm not mistaken, just 1 Bronco on the entire list - Elway.

Yep, this is how I see it too. This is why I've proclaimed the top 100 list a freaking joke.

Quoydogs
10-21-2010, 01:07 PM
I now know how Deion feels. Sorry there is no embed listed.


http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81b54605/Sanders-appalled-by-spot-in-Top-100

Agreed somebody needs slapped in the face with baby powder on there hands.Hilarious!

GoBroncos84
10-21-2010, 03:46 PM
Brady at 21, ahead of Elway. That is a disgrace

BroncsRule
10-21-2010, 04:11 PM
Complete horse****.

Elway is a top 10 player all time, and best 2 or 3 QBs at worst.

this.

/thread

GoBroncos84
10-21-2010, 04:14 PM
How far does one's head have to be up their own ass to think that Tom Brady is greater than John Elway? That really boggles the mind. John not being in the top 10 has me in a state of shock right now.

Jay3
10-21-2010, 04:15 PM
"Deion" is throwing of the rhythm of a lot of posts.

A for to have the Deion with the hating the TV, Elway is the good.

JLine27
10-21-2010, 04:22 PM
How far does one's head have to be up their own ass to think that Tom Brady is greater than John Elway? That really boggles the mind. John not being in the top 10 has me in a state of shock right now.

Agreed. That coupled with Favre being ahead of Marino and Elway sickened me.

Los Broncos
10-21-2010, 04:24 PM
Elway is a top 3 QB of all time, how is he not in at least the top 10?

SoonerBronco
10-21-2010, 04:42 PM
Brady at 21, ahead of Elway. That is a disgrace


and shows the football intelligence of the "blue ribbon" panel. Elway carried 4 teams on his back to the Superbowl. Take him off those teams and there is no way they even sniff the playoffs. Putting up numbers in the ahole Dan Reeves dinosaur offense the whole time.

What a bunch of crap...

Any other team drafts Brady and none of us are talking about him except maybe a few Michigan fans.

what an effing joke.

Los Broncos
10-21-2010, 04:51 PM
and shows the football intelligence of the "blue ribbon" panel. Elway carried 4 teams on his back to the Superbowl. Take him off those teams and there is no way they even sniff the playoffs. Putting up numbers in the ahole Dan Reeves dinosaur offense the whole time.

What a bunch of crap...

Any other team drafts Brady and none of us are talking about him except maybe a few Michigan fans.

what an effing joke.

I was just talking to a co-worker who is NE fan and HUGE Brady homer about this.

Of course he says Brady is better and I even brought the same argument that you just posted.

Didn't faze him one bit.

colonelbeef
10-21-2010, 04:52 PM
Brady at 21, ahead of Elway. That is a disgrace

Atrocious.

SoonerBronco
10-21-2010, 05:13 PM
I was just talking to a co-worker who is NE fan and HUGE Brady homer about this.

Of course he says Brady is better and I even brought the same argument that you just posted.

Didn't faze him one bit.

People in OK still talk about when Elway came to Norman with his Stanford Cardinals and stomped OU in the rain 33-10 or something.

The guy has more talent in his pinky than Tom Brady has in his whole body. If Elway had the line and system that Brady had in his career, we wouldn't even be having this argument.

Elway did more with less that Brady ever will.

WolfpackGuy
10-21-2010, 05:18 PM
Elway with today's offense pampering rules would be sick.

I think most know had he played for an offensive minded coach from the get go, he would own every significant record and definitely more than 2 rings.

GoBroncos DownUnder
10-21-2010, 05:34 PM
The only current player in the top 20 should be Peyton Manning, and you move him down because his career isn't over.
Tom Brady-Bundchen at #21 is just terrible.
And at WORST, I'd put Deion Sanders in the "-teen" area of the ranking.

Just my .02c

Houshyamama
10-21-2010, 05:37 PM
Who cares? The list is a complete joke.

elsid13
10-21-2010, 05:47 PM
How can you put any non-HOF player in the top 20?

Cosmo
10-21-2010, 05:59 PM
Not to mention the difference in era and the rule changes. Brady wouldn't even survive in the 80's. Elway would have thrown for 5000 yards every season in the Patriots offense.

gunns
10-21-2010, 06:16 PM
Agreed. That coupled with Favre being ahead of Marino and Elway sickened me.

WHAT??? WHAT??? I haven't been watching it but you have got to be ****ing kidding me. Not being in the top 100 greatest athletes on ESPN was tolerable because it was ESPN but I thought for sure a station with NFL in it would get it. Excuse me while I go have a stroke

ZONA
10-21-2010, 06:22 PM
You guys shouldn't get all bent over this. These stupid lists, no matter which sport, are just that.........stupid. You can't compare players of one era to another, there's just no way you could be fair in comparisons. It's like saying who's better, Jordan or Kobe. I mean, how do you really say who's better. They both have won a ton of titles, they both have scored a ton of points, played good defense, hit clutch shots all the time, yada yada yada. These lists of best players ever are just entertainment.

Quoydogs
10-21-2010, 08:30 PM
You guys shouldn't get all bent over this. These stupid lists, no matter which sport, are just that.........stupid. You can't compare players of one era to another, there's just no way you could be fair in comparisons. It's like saying who's better, Jordan or Kobe. I mean, how do you really say who's better. They both have won a ton of titles, they both have scored a ton of points, played good defense, hit clutch shots all the time, yada yada yada. These lists of best players ever are just entertainment.

Jordan by far. Jordan changed basket ball forever.

GoBroncos84
10-21-2010, 08:34 PM
Ok, so looking at the QBs they will have ranked ahead of John Elway:

Tom Brady
Brett Favre
Peyton Manning
Johnny Unitas
Otto Graham
Joe Montana

am I missing anyone? So they have John as the 7th best QB of all time? The more I think about this list the angrier I get.

Quoydogs
10-21-2010, 08:59 PM
Ok, so looking at the QBs they will have ranked ahead of John Elway:

Tom Brady
Brett Favre
Peyton Manning
Johnny Unitas
Otto Graham
Joe Montana

am I missing anyone? So they have John as the 7th best QB of all time? The more I think about this list the angrier I get.
Deion said it best.

" I think someone need slapped in the face, with baby powered on there hands. "

BroncoSojia
10-21-2010, 09:13 PM
Deion said it best.

" I think someone need slapped in the face, with baby powered on there hands. "

Looks like Deion took matters into his own hands or "hand"



http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d81b6efe1/Prime-gets-revenge-on-Mooch

extralife
10-21-2010, 09:45 PM
I now know how Deion feels. Sorry there is no embed listed.


http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81b54605/Sanders-appalled-by-spot-in-Top-100

Agreed somebody needs slapped in the face with baby powder on there hands.Hilarious!

pretty hilarious, but Rod Woodson was better than Deion.

"nah, naw. I didn't back away. Now I didn't kill myself gettin' there. But I didn't back away!"

man I never liked Deion but this is pretty golden

BMarsh615
10-21-2010, 10:26 PM
Jason Whitlock is outraged by this (from his twitter)

I was just told Elway was No. 23 on NFL Network's top 100 players of all time. I'm now glad I didn't participate in selection process!

Elway not n top 10, list has no credibility. Elway is the greatest NFL player of all time. That's not hyperbole. I've written about this.He also linked a story from back in February where he gave his top 10 QB's of all time.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/the-10-greatest-qbs-of-all-time

Archer81
10-21-2010, 10:51 PM
Ok, so looking at the QBs they will have ranked ahead of John Elway:

Tom Brady
Brett Favre
Peyton Manning
Johnny Unitas
Otto Graham
Joe Montana

am I missing anyone? So they have John as the 7th best QB of all time? The more I think about this list the angrier I get.


Should be Elway-Montana-Favre-Marino. Brady and Manning should not be ahead of these four, or in the top 10.


:Broncos:

epicSocialism4tw
10-21-2010, 11:22 PM
Cause they had to make room for Both mannings, Brady, rivers, schaub, and Brees in the top 6. Chris Johnson and Derrell Revis prob help round out the top 8.

Ha!

You did a good job encapsulating the ubiquitous promotion in modern sports media. Rep!

BroncoBuff
10-21-2010, 11:23 PM
To be honest, I think Steve Young is the best quarterback all-time.

Montana was more of a winner, but Young was flawless in every way.

MrPeepers
10-21-2010, 11:31 PM
top 10 lists are to men

as

housewives of new jersey, bev hills, atlanta, wash dc is to women

absolute mind trash and drivel for the masses.

baja
10-21-2010, 11:34 PM
To be honest, I think Steve Young is the best quarterback all-time.

Montana was more of a winner, but Young was flawless in every way.

Even better than Chris Simms ???

BroncoSojia
10-21-2010, 11:39 PM
Should be Elway-Montana-Favre-Marino. Brady and Manning should not be ahead of these four, or in the top 10.


:Broncos:

idk, I think people should start giving Brady more credit.

3 superbowl wins and an AFC championship with little to no offensive talent and when they finally bring in some players for him to throw the ball to, he has possibly the greatest season for a QB in NFL History.

If Asantel Samuel holds on to that pick in the 4th quarter of Superbowl 42, he wins his forth SB, and we're probably talking about him as the greatest of all time.

extralife
10-21-2010, 11:44 PM
To be honest, I think Steve Young is the best quarterback all-time.

Montana was more of a winner, but Young was flawless in every way.

ranking Steve Young behind garbage like Troy Aikman and Terry ****ing Bradshaw is the worst sin this list commits

Quoydogs
10-21-2010, 11:47 PM
To be honest, I think Steve Young is the best quarterback all-time.

Montana was more of a winner, but Young was flawless in every way.

WOW Where did you get your crack? You need a new dealer.

BroncoBuff
10-22-2010, 12:13 AM
ranking Steve Young behind garbage like Troy Aikman and Terry ****ing Bradshaw is the worst sin this list commitsWOW Where did you get your crack? You need a new dealer.

Definitely some divergent opinions ...

Guys, it ALL depends on the criteria. Is "the best" he who wins the most? Then Montana and Bradshaw and Brady. If your rating "pure skill" at the position, Young stands alone in my book.

BTW, why doesn't anybody ever mention Bradshaw? he's WAAAAy better than Favre.

BroncoBuff
10-22-2010, 12:15 AM
WOW Where did you get your crack? You need a new dealer.

PM me if you know somebody.

Quoydogs
10-22-2010, 12:20 AM
PM me if you know somebody.

Ok so say you have a football team. You can choose any players you want. You honestly would put Steve Young as your QB over Elway ? I just can't see that.

In my opinion there is only one other QB in the same league as Elway and that is Montana.

BroncoBuff
10-22-2010, 12:32 AM
Ok so say you have a football team. You can choose any players you want. You honestly would put Steve Young as your QB over Elway ? I just can't see that.

In my opinion there is only one other QB in the same league as Elway and that is Montana.

Elway and Montana ... I'd say that's mixing criteria. Montana was an average talent, while Elway was a massive talent. Which are you rating, winning or skill?

And don't say "winning is all that matters," a) it's not, and b) Dan Marino would be awful by that yardstick.

Again, on skills, it's Steve Young. He was flawless in every way.

Quoydogs
10-22-2010, 12:41 AM
[QUOTE=BroncoBuff;2977449]Elway and Montana ... I'd say that's mixing criteria. Montana was an average talent, while Elway was a massive talent. Which are you rating, winning or skill?

And don't say "winning is all that matters," a) it's not, and b) Dan Marino would be awful by that yardstick.

Again, on skills, it's Steve Young. He was flawless in every way.[/QUOTE


<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DIEvHCyb4Ms?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DIEvHCyb4Ms?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>:

BroncoBuff
10-22-2010, 12:42 AM
Okay, then who was a more skilled quarterback than Young? And show your work.

Quoydogs
10-22-2010, 12:51 AM
Okay, then who was a more skilled quarterback than Young? And show your work.

Sorry man I am not a stat guy but Steve Young had all the tools to work with when he took over . Also If memory serves me he got hurt a lot and missed all kinds of games. Until TD came around John never had a running game. It was all on him. He was in for almost every snap and you always gave you a shot to win the game no matter what it looked like going into the forth quarter.

BroncoBuff
10-22-2010, 12:53 AM
Wikipedia to the rescue, yet again.

Despite a Mormon Mission, two years in the USFL, and three+ years backing up Montana, he racked up some massive credentials:

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1071/youngn.jpg


Young has "Most passing titles in a career," are you freaking kidding me? Guy played just 9 full seasons ... amazing.

They left out one stat, he has the highest, or very near highest career completion percentage ever. His QB ruching records are there, but also he was one of the very best scramblers ever.

Quoydogs
10-22-2010, 12:57 AM
Wikipedia to the rescue, yet again.

Despite a Mormon Mission, two years in the USFL, and three+ years backing up Montana, he racked up some massive credentials:

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1071/youngn.jpg


Young has "Most passing titles in a career," are you freaking kidding me? Guy played just 9 full seasons ... amazing.

They left out one stat, he has the highest, or very near highest career completion percentage ever. His QB ruching records are there, but also he was one of the very best scramblers ever.He was a Mormon! that says it all. Oh and is he in the hall of fame ?

BroncoBuff
10-22-2010, 12:58 AM
Steve Young has just the 6th highest career completion percentage.

You will never EVER guess who's #1 ... first guess, then clck: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_cmp_perc_career.htm

BroncoBuff
10-22-2010, 12:58 AM
Oh and is he in the hall of fame ?

Please.

extralife
10-22-2010, 01:02 AM
yeah, Young's career didn't even start until he was 30. What he did after that point was incredible. And if you look at the skillset, he is unrivaled. He's Elway with greater accuracy and better knees.

Quoydogs
10-22-2010, 01:02 AM
* In 1979, Elway was drafted out of high school by the Kansas City Royals to play baseball in MLB. George Brett, the future Hall of Fame third baseman for the Royals, is said to have remarked, "I hope this guy plays football."[citation needed]
* In the 1981 MLB Draft, Elway was selected by the New York Yankees in the second round.[11] The following year, he played outfield in 42 games for the Oneonta Yankees of the Class A New York - Penn League.[12] He had a .318 batting average, with four home runs, 13 stolen bases,[13] and a team-high 25 RBI.[12][14]
* In the 1983 NFL Draft, Elway was selected as the first overall pick by the Baltimore Colts, and on May 2, was traded to the Denver Broncos.

* On January 11, 1987, Elway executed "The Drive" - a last ditch, five-minute, 15-play, 98-yard touchdown drive in the AFC Championship against the Cleveland Browns to tie the game late in the fourth quarter, leading to an overtime win by field goal (by Rich Karlis) for the Broncos. It included six passes made (nine attempted), five rushes and an eight-yard sack. He was named the NFL Most Valuable Player and the AFC Offensive MVP.

* Elway is the only player to throw for over 3,000 yards and rush for over 200 yards in seven straight seasons (19851991).[15]
* Elway was named the AFC Offensive MVP in 1993 when he passed for over 4,030 yards and 25 touchdowns. He had a quarterback rating of 92.8.
* In 1997, Elway led the Broncos to their first ever Super Bowl win in Super Bowl XXXII. His three previous attempts in Super Bowls XXI, XXII and XXIV were unsuccessful.
* Elway is the oldest player to score a touchdown in a Super Bowl at age 38 in Super Bowl XXXIII.
* Elway is one of only two players to rush for a touchdown in four Super Bowls (XXI, XXIV, XXXII, XXXIII). Thurman Thomas is the other.
* On January 31, 1999, in Super Bowl XXXIII, Elway passed for 336 yards in a 34-19 victory over the Atlanta Falcons. He was named the Super Bowl MVP.
* Elway was selected to the Pro Bowl nine times during his 16 seasons with the Broncos, a franchise record.
* Over his professional career, Elway led Denver to 34 comeback wins in the 4th quarter & overtime, tied for third with Johnny Unitas.[16]
* Elway's 148 wins place him second (to Brett Favre) for career wins among quarterbacks. He was also sacked 516 times, more than any other quarterback.
* Elway's 300 career touchdown passes places him fifth behind Favre, Dan Marino, Fran Tarkenton and Peyton Manning.
* Elway is one of only four quarterbacks to pass for at least 3,000 yards in 12 seasons; Favre, Marino and Manning are the others.
* On January 31, 2004, Elway was elected into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Elway ended his career with a record 148 victories, since surpassed by Brett Favre for most wins by a starting quarterback. He finished his career with 774 rushing attempts, one shy of NFL record-holder Randall Cunningham (775) for rushes by a quarterback. Elway's 3,417 rushing yards ranks sixth all-time among NFL QB's behind Cunningham, Steve Young, Michael Vick, Fran Tarkenton, and Steve McNair.

Elway threw for 1,128 yards in his five Super Bowls, third most behind Kurt Warner and Joe Montana. His 76 Super Bowl pass completions rank fifth, and his 152 attempts were a Super Bowl record before being broken by Tom Brady (156 attempts) [8][9]

Elway holds several Broncos franchise records:

* Most Total Offensive Yards: 54,882 yards (51,475 passing, 3,407 rushing)
* Most Total Touchdowns: 334 (300 passing, 33 rushing, 1 receiving)
* Most Total Plays: 8,027
* Winning Percentage: .643 (148821)
* Most Career Passing Yards: 51,475
* Most Career Completions: 4,123
* Most Career Attempts: 7,250
* Most Touchdown Passes: 300

Lev Vyvanse
10-22-2010, 01:09 AM
Wikipedia to the rescue, yet again.

Despite a Mormon Mission, two years in the USFL, and three+ years backing up Montana, he racked up some massive credentials:

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1071/youngn.jpg


Young has "Most passing titles in a career," are you freaking kidding me? Guy played just 9 full seasons ... amazing.

They left out one stat, he has the highest, or very near highest career completion percentage ever. His QB ruching records are there, but also he was one of the very best scramblers ever.

Also he was the first QB to ever become good after 6 years on the bench.

BroncoBuff
10-22-2010, 03:31 AM
No denying Elway, please don't box me in as under-appreciating John Elway.

John carried teams on his back to the playoffs and the Super Bowl time and time again. I was always puzzled how Dan Reeves never, ever acquired an impact player on offense, never. Closest guy was Vance Johnson. John carried, CARRIED that franchise to three SBs.

Reeves track record for talent acquisition was abysmal. Great coach, NYG and Atlanta prove that, but ferhevvinsake other than DS49, Reeves never, ever bagged an impact player on either side of the ball. Butch Johnson, Andre Townsend, Ricky Hunley, Sammy Winder, Clint Sampson, Bobby Humphrey, Freddie Gilbert, Jim Juriga, Ted Gregory .... ugh. If only we had Jim Goodman in the 80s ;D (and the last two years ... ouch!)


_________________________________________________

Rick Upchurch was once engaged to Condoleezza Rice.

Garcia Bronco
10-22-2010, 07:25 AM
idk, I think people should start giving Brady more credit.

3 superbowl wins and an AFC championship with little to no offensive talent and when they finally bring in some players for him to throw the ball to, he has possibly the greatest season for a QB in NFL History.

If Asantel Samuel holds on to that pick in the 4th quarter of Superbowl 42, he wins his forth SB, and we're probably talking about him as the greatest of all time.

But he didn't, and as it turns out he was on the worst 18-1 team ever. Not to mention his team got caught cheating by stealing calls.

Beantown Bronco
10-22-2010, 07:33 AM
idk, I think people should start giving Brady more credit.

3 superbowl wins and an AFC championship with little to no offensive talent and when they finally bring in some players for him to throw the ball to, he has possibly the greatest season for a QB in NFL History.

If Asantel Samuel holds on to that pick in the 4th quarter of Superbowl 42, he wins his forth SB, and we're probably talking about him as the greatest of all time.

The response to this argument is easy: swap Brady with Elway. In other words, give Elway those Pats teams. Are you saying he wouldn't have won at least as many SB's under those rules, in that system, with the same talent? Please. The Pats defense deserves FAR more credit than Brady for getting to and winning at least two of those SBs.

Rock Chalk
10-22-2010, 08:12 AM
Jordan by far. Jordan changed basket ball forever.

No he didnt. Phil Jackson changed basketball forever.

Mogulseeker
10-22-2010, 08:28 AM
I wouldn't call him best all time, but Steve Young was a vastly underrated (because of his lack of starts and passing yards) beast.

Maybe the most talented QB of all time.

DawnBTVS
10-22-2010, 09:47 AM
The response to this argument is easy: swap Brady with Elway. In other words, give Elway those Pats teams. Are you saying he wouldn't have won at least as many SB's under those rules, in that system, with the same talent? Please. The Pats defense deserves FAR more credit than Brady for getting to and winning at least two of those SBs.

I understand this is a Broncos forum but these types of arguments are laughable and inane at best. Who cares how Player X would've done in Era Y. Hell, you want to argue such a scenario? Imagine rocket armed Elway in the 1940's! If you thought the Arnie Herber/Don Hutson combo was impressive, just imagine Elway bombing it to Hutson!

Fact is that Elway (and Aikman, Steve Young, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, etc.) didn't play in the current era and never will. Positing what they could have done or pretending to know what they would've done is futile. Same for trying to fit Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or Drew Brees back into the 1980's.

To defend Brady (I'd have him in the Top 5 at least)
1: Yeah he had a great defense. So do many, many, many successful Super Bowl winning and playoff bound teams. It's stupid to penalize Brady for having a great defense just like it would be to "penalize" Elway for having a poor to average defense and needing to comeback all the time.

2: System is system for any player. John Elway kinda had a damn good system when he played under Mike Shanahan. Should we nullify his Super Bowl wins because he was coached by Shanahan and was a "system" quarterback then? Of course not and Brady shouldn't be penalized either.

3: The Patriots by and large have been a run focused team (especially in the red zone). Brady's touchdown totals are impressive in any era!

John Elway 1993-1998: 25, 16, 26, 26, 27, and 22. - 142
Tom Brady 2001-2006: 18, 28, 23, 28, 26, and 24. - 147
PeManning 1998-2003: 26, 26, 33, 26, 27, and 29. - 167

If you compare Elway/Brady season by season, they were actually very similar in passing yards, touchdowns, and interceptions. Brady actually led the NFL in TD passes in just his second season.

4: Brady has been a great comeback quarterback and that can't be denied. If you want to argue that "all Brady does is lead winning field goals", really look at Elway's comebacks. He had a ton of drives that led to game winning field goals too. A comeback win is a comeback win, field goal or not. The fact that Brady did it twice in Super Bowls (and nearly a 3rd time against the Giants) is amazing.

5: He's 33 years old and on pace to throw for at least 20 TD again this season. Even if he throws just 20 TD until age 37, that would put him at a final total of 325 TD passes. Elway threw for 300 TD in 16 seasons (mostly boosted thanks to Shanahan's system).

Quoydogs
10-22-2010, 09:50 AM
Should we nullify his Super Bowl wins because he was coached by Shanahan and was a "system" quarterback then? Of course not and Brady shouldn't be penalized either.



Nope but you should nullify Brady because there team cheated ! They were busted, it was proven and there should be an asteric behind everyone of there Super Bowls.

~Crash~
10-22-2010, 09:53 AM
Should we nullify his Super Bowl wins because he was coached by Shanahan and was a "system" quarterback then? Of course not and Brady shouldn't be penalized either.



Nope but you should nullify Brady because there team cheated ! They were busted, it was proven and there should be an asteric behind everyone of there Super Bowls.

how true

Rabb
10-22-2010, 09:57 AM
Elway threw for 300 TD in 16 seasons (mostly boosted thanks to Shanahan's system).

I have to give you credit for a pretty good post until that

that's just ignorant...especially considering you said

System is system for any player

in the same post

can't have it both ways holmes

Steve Sewell
10-22-2010, 10:23 AM
Brady at 21, ahead of Elway. That is a disgrace

That is a ****ing joke.

Steve Sewell
10-22-2010, 10:35 AM
I wouldn't call him best all time, but Steve Young was a vastly underrated (because of his lack of starts and passing yards) beast.

Maybe the most talented QB of all time.

This isn't even up for debate. John Elway is far and away the "most talented" QB of all time. Although I would say that Young is somewhere at 2 or 3.

BroncoBuff
10-22-2010, 10:52 AM
Steve Young was a vastly underrated. Maybe the most talented QB of all time.

On sheer talent, yes. Flawless skills. Although, if physical talent is the sole criteria, you'd have to have Randall Cunningham in the conversation. Sick talent, soft head.

Sewell, again, I don't want to be boxed in as under-appreciating John Elway, but you stated "talent" alone ... to be perfectly honest, I can't think of a single skill Elway had over Young. Sorry, but Young was a better passer, runner, scrambler. Like I've always said, Young's skills were uniformly flawless. If he had 6 or 7 more years in the league, good gravy the stats he'd have put up. Look at those numbers in just nine years.

Quoydogs
10-22-2010, 10:55 AM
On sheer talent, yes. Flawless skills. Although, if physical talent is the sole criteria, you'd have to have Randall Cunningham in the conversation. Sick talent, soft head.

Sewell, again, I don't want to be boxed in as under-appreciating John Elway, but you stated "talent" alone ... to be perfectly honest, I can't think of a single skill Elway had over Young. Sorry, but Young was a better passer, runner, scrambler. Like I've always said, Young's skills were uniformly flawless. If he had 6 or 7 more years in the league, good gravy the stats he'd have put up. Look at those numbers in just nine years.

You are missing one thing about Young. He could not have made it 6 or 7 more years. The guy got a concussion every other play. It does not matter how good you are if you are riding the pine during the game.

DawnBTVS
10-22-2010, 11:16 AM
Fair enough McRabb but I thought it'd be a bit of a humorous take on the whole (___ despite Reeves) type posts that pop up.

As for the Patriots cheating argument... Technically they "broke the rules" as opposed to necessarily being told they cheated. The Jets argued the Patriots stole signals but there's written proof that the Jets did similar tactics. Heck, players AND coaches were saying after the fact that it happened all the time but just wasn't caught because nobody spoke up about it. It's no surprise that it was Eric Mangini, who Belichick has a strong dislike towards (as opposed to McDaniels), that blew the whistle.

As for the initial Rams related scandal...

A team spokesman denied reports in the Boston Herald quoting a source who said the Patriots secretly taped the St. Louis Rams' practice the day before Super Bowl XXXVI six years ago. The Patriots won that Super Bowl, though the Rams were favored.

Ooooh... they taped a practice! Also the "source" was an ex-employee of New England who had been fired a while before the news suddenly broke. Also the Patriots still had to march down the field at the end of the game and kick a winning field goal. Doesn't seem like taping that practice helped them a ton.

And how quickly Broncos fans blind themselves. Do none of you think the skirting of the salary cap (especially in your SB winning seasons) had no impact or effect on winning said Super Bowls? Talk about throwing stones at a glass house.

Beantown Bronco
10-22-2010, 11:22 AM
And how quickly Broncos fans blind themselves. Do none of you think the skirting of the salary cap (especially in your SB winning seasons) had no impact or effect on winning said Super Bowls?

Why wouldn't we think that? That's exactly what the league determined.

Flex Gunmetal
10-22-2010, 12:10 PM
Gradishar being omitted is silly. Highly doubt TD will be in.

SoonerBronco
10-22-2010, 12:15 PM
Like I said before, you can discount the system argument, but I guarantee that if Brady is drafted in the 6 or 7th by any other team, we are not even talking about him.

mkporter
10-22-2010, 12:32 PM
On sheer talent, yes. Flawless skills. Although, if physical talent is the sole criteria, you'd have to have Randall Cunningham in the conversation. Sick talent, soft head.

Sewell, again, I don't want to be boxed in as under-appreciating John Elway, but you stated "talent" alone ... to be perfectly honest, I can't think of a single skill Elway had over Young. Sorry, but Young was a better passer, runner, scrambler. Like I've always said, Young's skills were uniformly flawless. If he had 6 or 7 more years in the league, good gravy the stats he'd have put up. Look at those numbers in just nine years.

Maybe not a skill, but Elway was much stronger. Young may have been quicker, but he couldn't shake off defensive end like Elway. I'd probably give Elway the edge in leadership as well.

loborugger
10-22-2010, 12:35 PM
Should be Elway-Montana-Favre-Marino. Brady and Manning should not be ahead of these four, or in the top 10.


:Broncos:

Otto Graham and Johnny Unitas have to be in their somewhere. This list is going to be front loaded with current and recently retired players to appeal to the under 35 crowd (the crowd that is paying the most attention to this list). Even so, you gotta throw Johnny U and Otto in there as they were that good in era that was mosty grind it out. Favre is far too mistake prone, IMHO, to make a top 5 lists. Great QB, HOF QB, but dude likes to give it away on the final play far too often to be a top 5 QB.

BroncoBuff
10-22-2010, 12:55 PM
Maybe not a skill, but Elway was much stronger. Young may have been quicker, but he couldn't shake off defensive end like Elway. I'd probably give Elway the edge in leadership as well.

Agree on both ... John better leader, stronger.

Cosmo
10-22-2010, 01:36 PM
Steve Young never served a Mormon mission. I'm Mormon, and heard him talk about choosing not to serve and how he plans to when he's an old man.

No idea where wikipedia got that info.

BroncoBuff
10-23-2010, 10:33 AM
Steve Young never served a Mormon mission. I'm Mormon, and heard him talk about choosing not to serve and how he plans to when he's an old man.

No idea where wikipedia got that info.

Just looked again, theres nothing in Wikipedia about a mission ... that must've been me.

TomServo
10-24-2010, 02:16 AM
and steve young has One SB appearance and one ring. gimme stabauch over young any day. and Elway over any other qb anyday anytime.