PDA

View Full Version : Breaking news Hard hits will get you suspended


Quoydogs
10-18-2010, 10:09 PM
Listening to MNF and they said that league has just announced that if you hit someone too hard they will suspend you. Have they forgotten this is football?

This has gone too far. Really what defines too hard ? This is going to be a disaster.

TheProfessor
10-18-2010, 10:14 PM
I think it's "helmet to helmet" hits that they are referring to.

tsiguy96
10-18-2010, 10:15 PM
the hits were already illegal, leading with your helmet and hitting another player in the helmet. these hits are almost assuredly concussions every time. interesting post on PFT comment:

The top ten most dangerous professions in the United States (commercial fishing, logging, agriculture, construction, sanitation, flying, roofing, mining, merchant marine and milling) have a median income of $48,215. Notably absent from the list - professional football with a median income of $782,250 in 2009. It would take an average worker in these hazardous industries nearly 57 years to make what the average NFL player makes over a 3.5 year career

Ray Finkle
10-18-2010, 10:19 PM
Hitting a defenseless player with the crown of your helmet should get you tossed.

SouthStndJunkie
10-18-2010, 10:19 PM
The new rule apparently won't apply only to helmet-to-helmet hits, but it will also encompass "devastating hits" and "head shots."

That is bull****.

The NFL markets the hits and now they want to cover their asses and suspend players for doing what they are taught to do.

I'm not talking about helmet to helmet hits on a defenseless player (I'm fine with that), but they are including suspending for 'devastating hits'.

Quoydogs
10-18-2010, 10:22 PM
The new rule apparently won't apply only to helmet-to-helmet hits, but it will also encompass "devastating hits" and "head shots."

That is bull****.

The NFL markets the hits and now they want to cover their asses and suspend players for doing what they are taught to do.

I'm not talking about helmet to helmet hits on a defenseless player (I'm fine with that), but they are including suspending for 'devastating hits'.
This, they teach these guys to hit. This is what football is all about. Next they will be asking them to wear skirts. They already make them wear pink for a month I guess that really is not to much of a stretch.

Bronco Yoda
10-18-2010, 10:27 PM
I think it's "helmet to helmet" hits that they are referring to.

No they're not. I'm watching the Tivo'd after game show righit now. It's devistating hits & head shots.

The league will further define this Wed.

Doggcow
10-18-2010, 10:28 PM
Is ****ing stupid.

It's football. It's a violent sport.

Make the league 2 hand ****ing touch.

Gort
10-18-2010, 10:29 PM
This, they teach these guys to hit. This is what football is all about. Next they will be asking them to wear skirts. They already make them wear pink for a month I guess that really is not to much of a stretch.

the NFL has been courting the female demographic for years. what do they do when a TV show loses ratings? stage a wedding. what do they do when an NFL franchise sucks? put their star player in a wedding dress!

http://www.theheismanwinners.com/images/Ricky_Williams_2.jpg

:D

Missouribronc
10-18-2010, 10:30 PM
Hitting a defenseless player with the crown of your helmet should get you tossed.

Define defenseless. Is a player who caught a pass and is trying to turn up field defenseless? Or does it only apply to receivers who did not catch the pass?

Can a "form" tackle be a suspendable offense. It sounds like it at this point.

The Joker
10-18-2010, 10:32 PM
"Devastating hits"?

Seems too ambiguous to enforce, do the refs just go up to the guy and ask him "are you devastated?"

RhymesayersDU
10-18-2010, 10:34 PM
Matt Millen just about went ballistic on SportsCenter. I'm all for player safety but using a term like "devastating hits" which is so subjective is going to be tough to legislate.

Quoydogs
10-18-2010, 10:35 PM
Well if they are going into it more on Wednesday that means nothing is in stone. So I hope everyone keeps raising a stink about this so they take it off the boards. If they pass this it will just be one more nail in the coffin and that thing is already nailed down pretty tight right now.

Quoydogs
10-18-2010, 10:35 PM
"Devastating hits"?

Seems too ambiguous to enforce, do the refs just go up to the guy and ask him "are you devastated?"

!Booya! LOL !

I'm Batman.

Bronco Yoda
10-18-2010, 10:38 PM
I can't imagine what the LB'ers, Safety's their coaches are thinking right now. Talk about mid season gut punch.

What in the hell is going to constitute DEVASTATING HIT anyway?????????

Steve Young is speculating that it's any hit that makes you cringe. I kid you not!



Mark my words. One of these days we'll be here on the mane talking about the good ol' days when they tackled players to the ground.

Dr. Broncenstein
10-18-2010, 10:41 PM
It is just a matter of time before someone literally dies from hits like the ones Desean Jackson and Josh Cribbs took yesterday. The forces generated by the size/speed of these players are too great. I won't pretend to have a solution... I like watching the game partly because of it's violent nature. It's just getting to the point of the NFL protecting itself from inevitable litigation.

Gort
10-18-2010, 10:42 PM
"Devastating hits"?

Seems too ambiguous to enforce, do the refs just go up to the guy and ask him "are you devastated?"

oh, this is going to be good... i can already see Sanchez crying and whining for a flag/suspension every time he gets touched.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/getty/2010/09000d5d815eece3_gallery_600.jpg

when it comes to QBs whining, this guy is rapidly surpassing both Manning and Brady.

Missouribronc
10-18-2010, 10:44 PM
oh, this is going to be good... i can already see Sanchez crying and whining for a flag/suspension every time he gets touched.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/getty/2010/09000d5d815eece3_gallery_600.jpg

when it comes to QBs whining, this guy is rapidly surpassing both Manning and Brady.

He already does. That won't change.

Quoydogs
10-18-2010, 10:47 PM
Matt Millen just about went ballistic on SportsCenter. I'm all for player safety but using a term like "devastating hits" which is so subjective is going to be tough to legislate.

First his face went red then I swear to god I thought it was going to pop right off . :D

Taco John
10-18-2010, 10:49 PM
oh, this is going to be good... i can already see Sanchez crying and whining for a flag/suspension every time he gets touched.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/getty/2010/09000d5d815eece3_gallery_600.jpg

when it comes to QBs whining, this guy is rapidly surpassing both Manning and Brady.


This drove me crazy yesterday.

Doggcow
10-18-2010, 10:49 PM
What about this strategy?

Draft 3 Safeties MINIMUM per season.

and then say **** IT LIGHT EM UP! WE GOT 9 BACKUPS!

Dagmar
10-18-2010, 10:49 PM
Someone tweeted earlier, protecting players is one thing, but the Pro Bowl has become unwatchable due to the lack of competitive hits.

NFLBRONCO
10-18-2010, 10:50 PM
OMG we are heading to NFL Flag Football

Bob's your Information Minister
10-18-2010, 10:51 PM
I guess the Enver Broncos won't have to worry about this.

NFLBRONCO
10-18-2010, 10:52 PM
Problem with this rule is Steelers Ravens Titans will get a longer leash then any other team because of rep of being physical.

Doggcow
10-18-2010, 10:53 PM
Problem with this rule is Steelers Ravens Titans will get a longer leash then any other team because of rep of being physical.

Kinda like the Brady Manning rule...

RhymesayersDU
10-18-2010, 10:59 PM
Someone tweeted earlier, protecting players is one thing, but the Pro Bowl has become unwatchable due to the lack of competitive hits.

This would imply that the Pro Bowl was at one point watchable.

strafen
10-18-2010, 11:24 PM
I think it's "helmet to helmet" hits that they are referring to.Yup...

Sign of the times.
Yes, it is football and the game has always been violent.
Nowadays, players are better conditioned and stronger than ever before.
The game is faster and more physical than I ever remember. I can see why they want to do something right now before bad things can happen...

Los Broncos
10-18-2010, 11:27 PM
oh, this is going to be good... i can already see Sanchez crying and whining for a flag/suspension every time he gets touched.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/getty/2010/09000d5d815eece3_gallery_600.jpg

when it comes to QBs whining, this guy is rapidly surpassing both Manning and Brady.

Brady is the biggest of them all, did you see him get hit as he released ball v Baltimore?

Dude was hitting the turf like a little b**** crying for a call.

sisterhellfyre
10-18-2010, 11:48 PM
Problem with this rule is Steelers Ravens Titans will get a longer leash then any other team because of rep of being physical.

Makes more sense to go after the bullies on the playground first: the refs will come down hard on those three teams as a way of making a point about zero tolerance.

broncocalijohn
10-18-2010, 11:58 PM
Problem with this rule is Steelers Ravens Titans will get a longer leash then any other team because of rep of being physical.

That hasnt worked well with Fine again (Finnegan).

Popps
10-19-2010, 12:03 AM
Yea, the hits on defenseless receivers are getting out of hand. I get what they're doing and why. Someone is going to get killed out there.

Bronco Yoda
10-19-2010, 12:07 AM
Yup...

Sign of the times.
Yes, it is football and the game has always been violent.
Nowadays, players are better conditioned and stronger than ever before.
The game is faster and more physical than I ever remember. I can see why they want to do something right now before bad things can happen...

Helmet to helmet is really not the issue here. The real issue here is the NFL now trying to take 'hard hits' out of the game. The kind of hits that were taught in PeeWee football on up.

Did you ever see games in the 70's? The game is no where near as violent now.

Popps
10-19-2010, 12:17 AM
Helmet to helmet is really not the issue here. The real issue here is the NFL now trying to take 'hard hits' out of the game. The kind of hits that were taught in PeeWee football on up.

Did you ever see games in the 70's? The game is no where near as violent now.

I watched the game in the 70s. Guys are bigger, stronger and faster now... period.

Beyond that, the NFL isn't trying to take out "hard hits," they're trying to keep some WR who just missed a catch from getting decapitated by a head-hunting CB trying to make a highlight reel.

Bronco Yoda
10-19-2010, 12:19 AM
<object width="384" height="216" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" id="ESPN_VIDEO" data="http://espn.go.com/videohub/player/embed.swf" allowScriptAccess="always" allowNetworking="all"><param name="movie" value="http://espn.go.com/videohub/player/embed.swf" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"/><param name="wmode" value="opaque"/><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"/><para

Bronco Yoda
10-19-2010, 12:22 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/29948/video-hard-hits-debate

loborugger
10-19-2010, 12:38 AM
Rugby player speaking here...

In rugby, you can not make a tackle without wrapping it. Seems like this would make a great rule in football. You still see some good hits in rugby, even with people wrapping arms and making a tackle.

Going it one further - and its counter intuitive - no one on the field wears padding. So, no one is interested in leading with their head on a tackle. You dont see the slamming noggins (cuz they are unarmored and you would hurt yourself more than the other guy) that you do in football.

I know it wont happen, but I would be all for less armor and more wrapping.

And for all of you that would immediately yell, "no protection? They are all gonna get killed!" - there are less injuries in rugby than there is football (or soccer, for that matter).

Quoydogs
10-19-2010, 12:42 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/29948/video-hard-hits-debate

Steve young is a complete douche bag, I now hate that **** . It's pussies like him that are ruining this game. Get the **** out.

Stuart : But thats not football
Young: Then call it something else, it's not the same game call it rugby with helmets.

Hogan11
10-19-2010, 12:49 AM
oh, this is going to be good... i can already see Sanchez crying and whining for a flag/suspension every time he gets touched.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/getty/2010/09000d5d815eece3_gallery_600.jpg

when it comes to QBs whining, this guy is rapidly surpassing both Manning and Brady.

This is being taught by QBC's league wide, kinda like how WR's always motion for a flag whenever they don't come up with a catchable ball. The destestable, dickmove that coaxing for penalities is, is sadly the norm now.

sisterhellfyre
10-19-2010, 12:56 AM
Yea, the hits on defenseless receivers are getting out of hand. I get what they're doing and why. Someone is going to get killed out there.

That's a question of when, not if. In the meantime:

"CSTE studies reveal brown tangles flecked throughout the brain tissue of former NFL players who died young -- some as early as their 30s or 40s.

McKee, who also studies Alzheimer's disease, says the tangles closely resemble what might be found in the brain of an 80-year-old with dementia.

"I knew what traumatic brain disease looked like in the very end stages, in the most severe cases," said McKee. "To see the kind of changes we're seeing in 45-year-olds is basically unheard of."

The damage affects the parts of the brain that control emotion, rage, hypersexuality, even breathing, and recent studies find that CTE is a progressive disease that eventually kills brain cells."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/26/athlete.brains/index.html

It's about time the league put a serious smackdown on the headhunters.

The Joker
10-19-2010, 12:58 AM
It's ridiculous that petitioning the refs for a flag isn't an 'Unsportsmanlike Behaviour' penalty, it's pathetic watching grown men wave imaginary flags around like little girls and crying for a penalty.

Concentrate on playing the game, let the refs deal with whether a flag should be thrown or not.

Be cool if one day a QB got sacked and one of the refs started making a throwing motion and screaming at him "C'mon man, throw the ball!!"

footstepsfrom#27
10-19-2010, 01:03 AM
Why not just put frilly little skirts on these guys and let them crochet doylies? I've never been a huge hockey fan, but that could change if they're serious about this bull****. I wonder what guys like Dick Butkus, Night Train Lane and Ronnie Lott think of what has become of the great game they played like caged animals. The NFL under Roger Badell sucks in the direction they are taking this crap.

Race car drivers occasionally get killed, so lets force them to drive the legal speed limit. Baseball players could get seriously hurt with that hard ball coming at them, so let's use a tennis ball instead. Boxing is obviously a brutal sport. I propose using 5 pound gloves made of goose down and foam rubber from now on. Soccer players could get hurt if that ball hits them in the face or the nuts...go with the nerf version instead.

Dumbass suits are destroying this game...mix in the probable lockout with this delightful news and I wonder if fans won't start staying away in the future.

footstepsfrom#27
10-19-2010, 01:04 AM
Helmet to helmet is really not the issue here. The real issue here is the NFL now trying to take 'hard hits' out of the game. The kind of hits that were taught in PeeWee football on up.

Did you ever see games in the 70's? The game is no where near as violent now.
Nor as good.

Rausch 2.0
10-19-2010, 02:17 AM
Somewhere Steve Atwater, Jack Lambert, and Ray Lewis just threw a lamp across the room...

rbackfactory80
10-19-2010, 03:51 AM
The game is officially flag football. Next you wont be able to carry the ball if you weigh 125 or over.

chickennob2
10-19-2010, 04:58 AM
That's a question of when, not if. In the meantime:

"CSTE studies reveal brown tangles flecked throughout the brain tissue of former NFL players who died young -- some as early as their 30s or 40s.

McKee, who also studies Alzheimer's disease, says the tangles closely resemble what might be found in the brain of an 80-year-old with dementia.

"I knew what traumatic brain disease looked like in the very end stages, in the most severe cases," said McKee. "To see the kind of changes we're seeing in 45-year-olds is basically unheard of."

The damage affects the parts of the brain that control emotion, rage, hypersexuality, even breathing, and recent studies find that CTE is a progressive disease that eventually kills brain cells."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/26/athlete.brains/index.html

It's about time the league put a serious smackdown on the headhunters.

Here's the thing: playing football is optional. No one's forcing you to do it. It's a choice you make. And for a large portion of NFL players, it's play in the league making millions a year while risking brain damage early in life, or work a 9 to 5 making 40 grand a year or less. Which option do you think they'll take?

Yeah, you can get hurt playing football. So you can decide if it's worth it.

chadta
10-19-2010, 05:25 AM
welcome to the nhl world of dart board justice, i can see it now

Garcia Bronco
10-19-2010, 07:28 AM
The defense pretty much has to let a reciever catch the ball. The NFL we grewup with is gone and has been for sometime.

jhns
10-19-2010, 08:30 AM
This is such a dumb rule. A lot of these hits are not intentional. They are going to have guys shying away from hits after some get suspended. Fines are good enough. If these hits start happening more frequently, up the fines some. Goodell is going to have them playing soccer by the time he is done.

Beantown Bronco
10-19-2010, 08:41 AM
Problem with this rule is Steelers Ravens Titans will get a longer leash then any other team because of rep of being physical.

Makes more sense to go after the bullies on the playground first: the refs will come down hard on those three teams as a way of making a point about zero tolerance.

I doubt it. This play shockingly didn't even draw a flag, much less a suspension.

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hFpnxVrT8Js?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hFpnxVrT8Js?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-19-2010, 08:48 AM
I guess the Enver Broncos won't have to worry about this.

Eat a cock.

Los Broncos
10-19-2010, 09:17 AM
Eat a cock.

Not a problem for him.

sisterhellfyre
10-19-2010, 09:20 AM
Yeah, you can get hurt playing football. So you can decide if it's worth it.

I get your point about NFL players making their own choices about the risk vs the salary. My question back to you is what about the players who will never achieve the payday? Signs of this brain damage syndrome show up a lot earlier, too:

"A detailed examination of the brain of a Penn football player who committed suicide showed he had the same disease caused by hard hits that has been associated with NFL players.

The New York Times first reported Monday that Owen Thomas was in the early stages of chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or CTE, a disease that has been linked to depression and impulse control, primarily among NFL players.

A former Penn captain, the 21-year-old Thomas was found dead in April at his off-campus apartment. He had apparently hanged himself."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5569329

Is that okay too?

Beantown Bronco
10-19-2010, 09:25 AM
How is this a new rule? Seems every time Larsen or Harris get hit hard, they miss time.......

Meck77
10-19-2010, 09:32 AM
I've said this in the political forum but it applies to the football forum also.

We've become a nation of pussies. It's only fitting the NFL follows the direction of our country.

Quoydogs
10-19-2010, 09:33 AM
I get your point about NFL players making their own choices about the risk vs the salary. My question back to you is what about the players who will never achieve the payday? Signs of this brain damage syndrome show up a lot earlier, too:

"A detailed examination of the brain of a Penn football player who committed suicide showed he had the same disease caused by hard hits that has been associated with NFL players.

The New York Times first reported Monday that Owen Thomas was in the early stages of chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or CTE, a disease that has been linked to depression and impulse control, primarily among NFL players.

A former Penn captain, the 21-year-old Thomas was found dead in April at his off-campus apartment. He had apparently hanged himself."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5569329

Is that okay too?
Someone posted a thing on here earlier about dangerous jobs. One of them was a crabber. Sure sometimes a rope gets rapped around somebodies leg and that person gets dragged into freezing water and dies a very painful death but that's his job. He knew it when he was hired and he chose to do it. There are lots of dangerous jobs this happens to be one of them.

Now if the hit is not legal, being a true helmet to helmet not a helmet that hits the shoulder pads and is pushed into the helmet. Then a suspension I could see, but because you crushed someone . That's there Job.

Hogan11
10-19-2010, 10:35 AM
Is anyone else having a problem getting past the Bronco Yoda video on page 2?

Just wondering, the page kinda locks up after that post and an error message shows up

Beantown Bronco
10-19-2010, 10:36 AM
Is anyone else having a problem getting past the Bronco Yoda video on page 2?

Just wondering, the page kinda locks up after that post and an error message shows up

yup. I tried to post a reply just after his post and it never showed up.

Hogan11
10-19-2010, 10:38 AM
yup. I tried to post a reply just after his post and it never showed up.

Okay...as long as it ain't just me.

Bronco Yoda
10-19-2010, 10:48 AM
Hard hits debate


I noticed that ESPN changed their title for this piece from 'HARD HITS' (last night) to 'FLAGERANT HITS' (today)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5703113

(I tried earlier to embed the video and it seems to have messed up the thread. Looks like things worked itself out)

Bronco Yoda
10-19-2010, 10:51 AM
Should they change the name now?

Steve Young suggests 'Rugby with a helmet.'

RWHL = Rugby with Helmet league

RunSilentRunDeep
10-19-2010, 10:58 AM
Ray Anderson back tracked on ESPN radio saying he didn't know who started using "devastating." So either he's an idiot of ESPN embellished the press release.

As far as the "that's what they're taught to do crowd," I don't recall ever being taught to smash my head into another player's head. I certainly recall exploding into a guy's midsection while wrapping up and driving the player into the ground.

For me, Dunta Robinson was a clean hit. James Harrison and Brandon Meriweather are scum balls who should be suspended.

Popps
10-19-2010, 10:58 AM
I've said this in the political forum but it applies to the football forum also.

We've become a nation of pussies. It's only fitting the NFL follows the direction of our country.

I'd probably agree with your general thesis, here... just not the application in this particular instance.

Atwater blowing up Okoye was a thing of beauty. Terrell's famous punt return hit had me jumping around my living room.

But, some of what I saw on Sunday just looked like an attempt to injure a defenseless player, and a lot of them looked late.

I like hard (true) hits as much as anyone. I grew up on the game. But, all games have frameworks and those frameworks evolve as the envelope is pushed.

Dedhed
10-19-2010, 11:03 AM
The flag on the play where Lloyd got hit was just pitiful to see. That was about as clean a shot as you'll ever see, and it still drew a flag.

Bronco Yoda
10-19-2010, 11:21 AM
I certainly recall exploding into a guy's midsection while wrapping up and driving the player into the ground.

That's what has people up at arms. Proper hitting technique but still blowing someone up. I don't think anyone advocates head to head.

Bronco Yoda
10-19-2010, 11:23 AM
I'd probably agree with your general thesis, here... just not the application in this particular instance.

Atwater blowing up Okoye was a thing of beauty. Terrell's famous punt return hit had me jumping around my living room.

But, some of what I saw on Sunday just looked like an attempt to injure a defenseless player, and a lot of them looked late.

I like hard (true) hits as much as anyone. I grew up on the game. But, all games have frameworks and those frameworks evolve as the envelope is pushed.


Popps... The way ESPN framed it last night, Atwater and Terrell would have been suspended. Try twising that one around...

sisterhellfyre
10-19-2010, 11:23 AM
For me, Dunta Robinson was a clean hit. James Harrison and Brandon Meriweather are scum balls who should be suspended.

Here's the rub, RunSilent and QuoyDogs: according to the existing rules, on the books now, Robinson's hit on Jackson was NOT legal.

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8: "h) If a receiver has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself, a defensive player is prohibited from launching (springing forward and upward) into him in a way that causes the defensive player's helmet, facemask, shoulder, or forearm to forcibly strike the receiver's head or neck area -- even if the initial contact of the defender's helmet, facemask, shoulder, or forearm is lower than the receiver's neck."

From what I've seen on the replays, this perfectly describes exactly what Robinson did: launched himself, shoulder and forearm first, into Jackson's upper chest and shoulder. The impact snapped Jackson's head forward into collision with Robinson's head, and they both hit the turf.

It's not a new rule, it's enhanced enforcement of what's already in the rule book.

Mogulseeker
10-19-2010, 11:29 AM
oh, this is going to be good... i can already see Sanchez crying and whining for a flag/suspension every time he gets touched.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/getty/2010/09000d5d815eece3_gallery_600.jpg

when it comes to QBs whining, this guy is rapidly surpassing both Manning and Brady.

Nobody is as bad as Brady.

Bronco Yoda
10-19-2010, 11:32 AM
I've said this in the political forum but it applies to the football forum also.

We've become a nation of pussies. It's only fitting the NFL follows the direction of our country.

sad but true

Quoydogs
10-19-2010, 11:33 AM
Nobody is as bad as Brady.

Not to get off topic here but is it just me or does Sanchez look like a CHO.MO ?

2KBack
10-19-2010, 11:50 AM
Ray Anderson back tracked on ESPN radio saying he didn't know who started using "devastating." So either he's an idiot of ESPN embellished the press release.

As far as the "that's what they're taught to do crowd," I don't recall ever being taught to smash my head into another player's head. I certainly recall exploding into a guy's midsection while wrapping up and driving the player into the ground.

For me, Dunta Robinson was a clean hit. James Harrison and Brandon Meriweather are scum balls who should be suspended.

I second this. I was always taught to keep my head up, see what I'm tackling, hit with my shoulder and wrap up. That is football, no one I know at any point was taught to launch themselves at a players head. It is unnecessary and dangerous. I disagree with the ticky tack PI rules, and the stupid roughing the passer calls, but this deadly concussion trend needs to be dealt with.

2KBack
10-19-2010, 11:53 AM
Popps... The way ESPN framed it last night, Atwater and Terrell would have been suspended. Try twising that one around...

TD yes, Atwater absolutely not. He never left his feet, he met a prepared ball carrier at the line

Bronco Yoda
10-19-2010, 12:07 PM
TD yes, Atwater absolutely not. He never left his feet, he met a prepared ball carrier at the line

Who said anything about leaving his feet. You're fixating too much on the 'launching' and head to head aspect of this. You can completely blow someone up (devastate them) without launching yourself or head hunting.

Popps
10-19-2010, 12:15 PM
Popps... The way ESPN framed it last night, Atwater and Terrell would have been suspended. Try twising that one around...

Twisting?

Relax, boy.

I've played the game and have been watching for over 30 years. I don't need ESPN to "frame" anything for me. I know the difference between a legitimate hit and an unnecessary/late hit... or an attempt to injure.

Will this rule be improperly enforced at times? Probably. Will it solve anything? I have no idea. Am I surprised that the league is making efforts to keep someone from dying on the field after what we saw this Sunday? Not at all.

Bronco Yoda
10-19-2010, 12:16 PM
I second this. I was always taught to keep my head up, see what I'm tackling, hit with my shoulder and wrap up. That is football, no one I know at any point was taught to launch themselves at a players head. It is unnecessary and dangerous. I disagree with the ticky tack PI rules, and the stupid roughing the passer calls, but this deadly concussion trend needs to be dealt with.

We were all taught this.

I just don't know how these guys are going to be able to play at full speed with all the restrictions now.

Hit a guy square in the chest with your shoulder pad and wrap up... but slide up, and it's head to head. Twist him down and it's now called a take down. If he leaves his feet your pile driving him. Leave your feet for whatever reason and your launching. whiff and reach out and graba as he goes by, and you may horse collar. Breath on the guy and it's PI. Hold back and lose your job.

And now rushing the QB. You already can't go high or low. Now you can't tackle him hard in the middle?

Gort
10-19-2010, 12:18 PM
they are not just talking about it... it's now in effect and retroactive to this past week's games.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-helmet-to-helmethits

i don't necessarily have a problem with severe penalties for legitimate headhunters. i do have an issue with the league office defining "devastating hits" in such a way that a hit might be completely legal, yet still draw a midweek fine and suspension either because a) the result was an injured high-profile player (e.g. Brady, Manning), or b) the media fixates on the hit until a suspension is dispensed.

this is the world we live in now.

Popps
10-19-2010, 12:21 PM
I just don't know how these guys are going to be able to play at full speed.

Yea, watch Meriweather's hit again and tell me that had anything to do with "full speed."

The ****ing ball was 5 yards past the receiver and he launched himself, head-first and used the crown of his helmet to blast a defenseless receiver in the head.

Nothing to do with playing "full speed."

He was cherry-picking and thought he could make Sportscenter's highlight reel. He did, only for the wrong reasons.

Bronco Yoda
10-19-2010, 12:25 PM
I agree with you on that hit. Totally out of line.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-19-2010, 12:36 PM
I'll wait til I hear the details on this before I get all up in arms about it. Fact is, some of those hits yesterday were egregious and deserve serious punishment. Fines do jack **** to these guys, so keeping them out of a game hurts them AND their team, and keeps coaches at this level from teaching dirty hits.

Rohirrim
10-19-2010, 12:39 PM
Twenty five yard penalty and immediate ejection. That'll tone it down.

Bronco Yoda
10-19-2010, 12:42 PM
Twisting?

Relax, boy.

I've played the game and have been watching for over 30 years. I don't need ESPN to "frame" anything for me. I know the difference between a legitimate hit and an unnecessary/late hit... or an attempt to injure.

Will this rule be improperly enforced at times? Probably. Will it solve anything? I have no idea. Am I surprised that the league is making efforts to keep someone from dying on the field after what we saw this Sunday? Not at all.

Boy? I"m sure you're a real bad ass aren't you....not.

2KBack
10-19-2010, 01:48 PM
We were all taught this.

I just don't know how these guys are going to be able to play at full speed with all the restrictions now.

Hit a guy square in the chest with your shoulder pad and wrap up... but slide up, and it's head to head. Twist him down and it's now called a take down. If he leaves his feet your pile driving him. Leave your feet for whatever reason and your launching. whiff and reach out and graba as he goes by, and you may horse collar. Breath on the guy and it's PI. Hold back and lose your job.

And now rushing the QB. You already can't go high or low. Now you can't tackle him hard in the middle?

I may still be focusing too much on the headhunting specifically, but I really think that is where the spirit of this discussion lays. I have disagreed with almost all the weak "protection" rules up until now. If it wasn't for all the other stupid rules that have been put in lately (specifically over protecting the QB), I don't think anyone would be outraged by this new emphasis on protecting players from some of the dangerous and unnecessary hits.

To me this is the first time they are trying to do something about a legitimate problem.

Popps
10-19-2010, 01:53 PM
Boy? I"m sure you're a real bad ass aren't you....not.

http://itsallfreeonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Kleenex.jpg

By the way, all of you guys should be watching Hodge on NFL Live right now clearing this up. Basically says Meriweather's play was blatantly and obviously an attempt to injure.

Went on to say that NFL greats like Chuck Knoll would have never taught players to use themselves as torpedoes and aim for players helmets. Not only is it an attempt to injure, it's fundamentally unsound. It's poor tackling.

Again, if you've played the game and watched for any length of time, you know the difference between real football fundamentals and guys trying to spear another guy's head off after a ball has passed.

Natedogg
10-19-2010, 03:17 PM
http://exiledonline.com/death-of-the-assassin/

Football is the same as boxing. We pay a lot of money to see grown men punish each other. Professional players chose to trade their bodies and their longevity for a lot of cash.

I wish the league would quit ****ing with a good thing.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-19-2010, 03:21 PM
http://exiledonline.com/death-of-the-assassin/

Football is the same as boxing. We pay a lot of money to see grown men punish each other. Professional players chose to trade their bodies and their longevity for a lot of cash.

I wish the league would quit ****ing with a good thing.

Won't be a good thing for long if every superstar is out with a concussion thanks to hits like Meriweather's.

rbackfactory80
10-19-2010, 03:53 PM
18 game season, over-protection of the QB, violent hits, International expansion. Lots of things happening in the NFL that I am not pleased with.

I just heard some commentary about a player who said he he doesn't want the league to look out for him. He signed up to play football and new the risks. I prefer less government as do most the players of the NFL.

azbroncfan
10-19-2010, 04:41 PM
Well they already have the players wearing pink...........

Popps
10-19-2010, 05:13 PM
18 game season, over-protection of the QB, violent hits, International expansion. Lots of things happening in the NFL that I am not pleased with.

I just heard some commentary about a player who said he he doesn't want the league to look out for him. He signed up to play football and new the risks. I prefer less government as do most the players of the NFL.

Football is a business, not a democracy... and most of the players you're going to hear defending hits like Meriweather's are defensive players.

Again, hard hits are fine. Just do them within the framework of the game.

For the record, I thought a couple of the hits over the weekend were fine. (The hit on Lloyd was absolutely fine.)

rbackfactory80
10-19-2010, 05:50 PM
Football is a business, not a democracy... and most of the players you're going to hear defending hits like Meriweather's are defensive players.

Again, hard hits are fine. Just do them within the framework of the game.

For the record, I thought a couple of the hits over the weekend were fine. (The hit on Lloyd was absolutely fine.)

From what I have heard players and coaches are tired from the pussification of the NFL. I watch games today and wonder how today's players would fair when playing in an era that didn't favor the offense as much as it did. Guys like Tom Brady reap the benefits of 15 yard penalties when someone brushes up against them 1 second after the release of the football. He is allowed to basically stand back there untouched and if he gets hit it has to be according to the rules. Back in the days when LT was coming off the corner he would have busted up Brady until he was literally afraid to throw the ball. If you can't intimidate you can't play the game how it was meant to be played. I am all for fining guys for leading with the head but the league has become whistle happy and tentative football is what will be the result. Penalties for nothing are happening all over. Not to mention sometimes collisions are just going to happen where helmet hits helmet do to last minute body shifts. Should players still be fined?

If players aren't committed to what they are doing more injuries will take place. The rules have become blurry. The league is fining for aggressive football plays which is not in the spirit of the game.

THE719!
10-19-2010, 05:56 PM
although I agree banning cheap hits like hitting another player helmet to helmet just to get him down or when its obvious he is going down it will just become one of those what is and whats not things

MaloCS
10-19-2010, 06:17 PM
If injuries resulting from hitting are a concern then the league can help the situation by slowing the damn game down. It's laughable that today's NFL players call their uniform "full pads". Hell, the only pad that worth a damn is the helmet.

There are numerous stories of players removing the "extra" padding from their shoulder pads so they could get better mobility and gain quickness (I seen it first hand in college). ****, the worst is the sorry excuse these players call thigh, hip, knee and tail bone pads. There absolutely isn't any padding in the lower half of the body. Hell, these guys are basically playing the game with nothing but spandex pants.

Want to decrease the severity of these hits? Slow the damn players down by making them wear honest to god padded uniforms. By their very nature, a fully padded uniform will limit mobility and slow the player down. This, along with an emphasis on tackling (instead of hitting) will go a long way.

When I played my coaches would ream my ass if I tried to just hit an offensive player. I'd get a saliva shower with the words "WRAP HIM UP" screamed into my face. We were taught to tackle and not just hit. I tend to agree that the focus of most of today's NFL players have gone from tackling to hitting. It's like they are foregoing the basic fundamentals of playing defense in order to make that ESPN highlight reel.

These guys are freaking huge and amazingly quick. Add to that the increased mobility and quickness caused by a lack of padding as well as a tendency to hit instead of tackle and it's no wonder these collisions are getting worse. The philosophy has to reinforce the basic fundamentals of the game instead of just headhunting for the sake of a television snippet.

Make no mistake about it, I enjoy knocking the snot out of another human being. I loved hitting a guy so hard that he blew snot all over his face mask. I loved hearing the wind rush out of another persons lungs when they get hit hard. I just agree with the observation that these guys are headhunting just to headhunt. There's a difference between a text book, "knock the wind out of you" tackle and a "I'm going to take your head off" hit. Regardless, I hope they never pussify the game to the point where this type of violence is eliminated.

If you want to see text book tackles on a consistent basis then just watch Champ Bailey. That guy has to have the best technique in all of football today.

baja
10-19-2010, 07:45 PM
How about take away the pads and the helmets that will stop the massive collisions and lead to more text book tackling.

TheProfessor
10-19-2010, 08:06 PM
How about take away the pads and the helmets that will stop the massive collisions and lead to more text book tackling.

I agree to a point, but the game would have to be re-taught from the ground up.

Because of that, I'll bet the injuries would increase (possibly significantly) for the short term until the new version of American football had some time to take.

That, and imagine an offensive lineman trying to block without the shoulder pads to grab on to.

Everything we know about the game would be different.

Meck77
10-19-2010, 08:15 PM
Please excuse my political incorrectness but this is what it was called.

We use to play Smear the Queer as kids. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=smear%20the%20queer

Not sure if kids even play it anymore? Are they even allowed to play it? We ended up bloody. We broke bones. It was fun. We played it for FREE.

Sorry but if grown men are willing to make MILLIONS playing the game we use to play for FREE then you have to take some risk.

The greater the reward. The greater the risk.

SouthStndJunkie
10-19-2010, 10:06 PM
League is selling photo of James Harrison's illegal hit

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/19/league-is-selling-photo-of-james-harrisons-illegal-hit/

Posted by Mike Florio on October 19, 2010 11:12 PM ET

The folks at KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh have uncovered an interesting angle regarding the hit that resulted in the imposition of a $75,000 fine against Steelers linebacker James Harrison.

The league currently is selling photos of the incident involving Harrison and Browns receiver Mohamed Massaquoi, at anywhere from $15.95 to $249.95.

Sorry, but the NFL can't have it both ways. If the league wants to legislate dirty hits out of the game, the NFL should do nothing to profit from those dirty hits.

For now, the NFL is.

UPDATE: It appears that the spike in traffic from PFT Planet has crashed the servers of the NFL Photo Store.

Popps
10-19-2010, 10:15 PM
We use to play Smear the Queer as kids. .

:spit:

That would be a great band name.

Cito Pelon
10-19-2010, 10:45 PM
Twenty five yard penalty and immediate ejection. That'll tone it down.

How far will the league go to protect players? At some point the rules become so ridiculous that they may as well just take the helmets off the players since the helmet has become a weapon.

If the helmet has become such a brutal weapon, then take the helmet off the players. If the league is not willing to take the helmets off the players, than they should just let it go and play like the NFL has always been played, brutal and ugly at times.

Cito Pelon
10-19-2010, 10:49 PM
How about take away the pads and the helmets that will stop the massive collisions and lead to more text book tackling.

Well, I tried going down that road and got ridiculed.

Cito Pelon
10-19-2010, 11:04 PM
I may still be focusing too much on the headhunting specifically, but I really think that is where the spirit of this discussion lays. I have disagreed with almost all the weak "protection" rules up until now. If it wasn't for all the other stupid rules that have been put in lately (specifically over protecting the QB), I don't think anyone would be outraged by this new emphasis on protecting players from some of the dangerous and unnecessary hits.

To me this is the first time they are trying to do something about a legitimate problem.

The thing is, since I was a kid if you wanted to play football it was because you like the hitting. If you didn't like to get hit and get hit hard, you didn't play football, you played other sports.

And, you played football because you could hit them other kids hard, real hard. You couldn't do that in any other sport, except boxing. And football is much more fun to play than boxing. Football is the only sport you tackle, the only sport you can really lay a forearm into somebody, and it's a team sport.

There's too many rules I'm thinking limiting the physicality of the sport. Like I said above, if you want to limit the physicality of the sport don't do it by officiating, do it by limiting the padding, eliminate the helmet, just don't try to pussify the sport.

Football is not a sport without the physicality. The physical nature of the game is why people play it.

ZachKC
10-19-2010, 11:10 PM
From what I have heard players and coaches are tired from the pussification of the NFL.

Links?

ZachKC
10-19-2010, 11:11 PM
Football is not a sport without the physicality. The physical nature of the game is why people play it.

Nobody is taking away the physicality.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-20-2010, 09:14 AM
Nobody is taking away the physicality.

This.

You can be physical and not dirty. Harrison is a dirty player. Meriweather is getting that reputation as well.

There is a major difference between playing physical football -- making a play physically -- and trying to hurt someone.

jhns
10-20-2010, 09:24 AM
Nobody is taking away the physicality.

How are they not? Do you really think all of the bad hits are intentional? They aren't. Some are from guys missing where they intended to lay a big hit. They are going to force guys to stop going after legal big hits when people start getting suspended. Less big hits = a less physical game.

This country is one giant pussy at this point.

missingnumber7
10-20-2010, 09:37 AM
This.

You can be physical and not dirty. Harrison is a dirty player. Meriweather is getting that reputation as well.

There is a major difference between playing physical football -- making a play physically -- and trying to hurt someone.

How Meriweather doesn't get suspended or ejected for jumping, and headbutting is beyond me. This falls planely on the officials for not properly enforcing the rules. Spearing, and head to head contact is defined as an ejectable offense. What Meriweather did was exactly that. The Robinson/Jackson collision is not that. It was a hard hit with players coming from exactly oposite directions. And Robinson lead with his shoulder with initial contact at the numbers.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-20-2010, 09:51 AM
How are they not? Do you really think all of the bad hits are intentional? They aren't. Some are from guys missing where they intended to lay a big hit. They are going to force guys to stop going after legal big hits when people start getting suspended. Less big hits = a less physical game.

This country is one giant p***Y at this point.

Less superstar players = a less entertaining game.

You're right about how not all the hits are intentional, but on top of injuring someone, a lot of it is just bad form. Perhaps we'll see good form tackling return to football, and at the same time we'll see fewer injuries from head-hunting players out for blood.

It must be legislated. Period.

And if it isn't, and someone dies on the field from one of these dirty hits, then you'll see a true overreaction by the league. Good luck justifying "keeping the physical game" when someone just died unnecessarily.

jhns
10-20-2010, 10:20 AM
It doesn't really matter now since this rule is in place already. What I would have done to stop head hunters is just make an escalating fine. Fine then 25,000 for the first hit and double it for each hit after that. Sooner or later, even the really rich guys will be paying the league to play if they want to be dirty. The guys doing it for the first time(which could be an accident) are then still punished while the dirty players are punished a lot more than these first time offenders.

Gort
10-20-2010, 10:25 AM
Links?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/NFL-players-speak-out-on-the-NFL-s-awful-new-da?urn=nfl-278498

Gort
10-20-2010, 10:30 AM
Less superstar players = a less entertaining game.

i definitely don't understand this mentality.

i could give a rat's ass how much PR a player gets off the field. i don't follow players, i follow a team. players come and go. i don't care if everybody or nobody knows the name of the Broncos QB outside of Denver. all i care about the Broncos playing good, winning football. but having TMZ debate whether a QB should get his haircut or not (i'm talking about you Tom Brady) is an anathema on the future of the league.

all these "hyped" players on ESPN can leave the league and go have their Hollywood reality shows. i think the NFL would be better with them gone.

Quoydogs
10-20-2010, 10:52 AM
All I am saying is that next Sunday is going to be really interesting.

Goobzilla
10-20-2010, 10:56 AM
All I am saying is that next Sunday is going to be really interesting.

Bet the over across the board :pimp:

Popps
10-20-2010, 11:05 AM
From what I have heard players and coaches are tired from the pussification of the NFL..

Again, you're misunderstanding. The concern isn't for legitimate hits. It's for spearing defenseless players with the crown of your helmet.

Hodge was on NFL Live talking about how Chuck Knoll would have never taught to hit that way.

They talked about Ronnie Lott, and how he rarely (if ever) hit that way. It's just bad form, aside from being an obvious attempt to injure.

People want to make this a macho thing, and it's just not. It's about playing within the framework of the game.

I mean, personally... I'd rather not lose Demaryius Thomas for the season because some cheap-shotting nickel back wanted to make a highlight reel... and launched himself, helmet-first into the back of DT's head after a ball had passed him.

See the difference? We're talking about fundamental football v. cheap-shots.

missingnumber7
10-20-2010, 11:11 AM
Again, you're misunderstanding. The concern isn't for legitimate hits. It's for spearing defenseless players with the crown of your helmet.

Hodge was on NFL Live talking about how Chuck Knoll would have never taught to hit that way.

They talked about Ronnie Lott, and how he rarely (if ever) hit that way. It's just bad form, aside from being an obvious attempt to injure.

People want to make this a macho thing, and it's just not. It's about playing within the framework of the game.

I mean, personally... I'd rather not lose Demaryius Thomas for the season because some cheap-shotting nickel back wanted to make a highlight reel... and launched himself, helmet-first into the back of DT's head after a ball had passed him.

See the difference? We're talking about fundamental football v. cheap-shots.
Possibly the best statement I have seen about this issue period.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-20-2010, 11:15 AM
i definitely don't understand this mentality.

i could give a rat's ass how much PR a player gets off the field. i don't follow players, i follow a team. players come and go. i don't care if everybody or nobody knows the name of the Broncos QB outside of Denver. all i care about the Broncos playing good, winning football. but having TMZ debate whether a QB should get his haircut or not (i'm talking about you Tom Brady) is an anathema on the future of the league.

all these "hyped" players on ESPN can leave the league and go have their Hollywood reality shows. i think the NFL would be better with them gone.

You think the league would be better off with the most talented players not in the league? Really?

Hype has nothing to do with it. I'm talking about talent.

Imagine if guys like Peyton Manning or Brandon Marshall saw their careers end prematurely because of a dirty hit from Harrison or Meriweather. Their backups come in. Are their backups as talented as they are? No, of course not. But the product will be the same?

Get a grip.

You lose the best, most talented players, and this game will not be as exciting or fun to watch.

rbackfactory80
10-20-2010, 11:28 AM
Again, you're misunderstanding. The concern isn't for legitimate hits. It's for spearing defenseless players with the crown of your helmet.

Hodge was on NFL Live talking about how Chuck Knoll would have never taught to hit that way.

They talked about Ronnie Lott, and how he rarely (if ever) hit that way. It's just bad form, aside from being an obvious attempt to injure.

People want to make this a macho thing, and it's just not. It's about playing within the framework of the game.

I mean, personally... I'd rather not lose Demaryius Thomas for the season because some cheap-shotting nickel back wanted to make a highlight reel... and launched himself, helmet-first into the back of DT's head after a ball had passed him.

See the difference? We're talking about fundamental football v. cheap-shots.

I absolutely understand, always have. Problem is Robinson got fined for a legitimate hit. They are fining hits that are within the framework of the game. That to me is a problem.

Merriweather is the other example. He acted with malice, and in my opinion should be suspended. You don't intentionally try to break another players neck.

My argument is not one of being macho but one that will keep the game as close to what it has been since its inception. Leading with the helmet deserves a fine, a good solid football hit of a wide receiver coming across the middle that takes a smack is legitimate.

serious hops
10-20-2010, 11:53 AM
Stink isn't happy (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5706132)

Gort
10-20-2010, 12:08 PM
You think the league would be better off with the most talented players not in the league? Really?

Hype has nothing to do with it. I'm talking about talent.

Imagine if guys like Peyton Manning or Brandon Marshall saw their careers end prematurely because of a dirty hit from Harrison or Meriweather. Their backups come in. Are their backups as talented as they are? No, of course not. But the product will be the same?

Get a grip.

You lose the best, most talented players, and this game will not be as exciting or fun to watch.

you didn't say talent. you said superstar. superstar is about fame. not all talented players are superstars and not all superstars are the most talented.

Jim Brown left at the peak of his career. the NFL didn't suffer.

you get a grip.

~Crash~
10-20-2010, 12:14 PM
This.

You can be physical and not dirty. Harrison is a dirty player. Meriweather is getting that reputation as well.

There is a major difference between playing physical football -- making a play physically -- and trying to hurt someone.

what about nasty guy Steve Atwater ..


The NLF has become to much about money . Corporation .

rbackfactory80
10-20-2010, 12:21 PM
what about nasty guy Steve Atwater ..


The NLF has become to much about money . Corporation .

Or how about more recent Bronco John Lynch. When Lynch was lighting people up I didn't see anyone complaining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoZEczoSL6M

http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=45420

~Crash~
10-20-2010, 12:28 PM
Or how about more recent Bronco John Lynch. When Lynch was lighting people up I didn't see anyone complaining.

Al Wilson in his prime would of been out of the league rather fast !

So let me get this right the league no longer is going to have punts or kick offs ?

rbackfactory80
10-20-2010, 12:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGY0NnWQxig&feature=related

Popps
10-20-2010, 12:32 PM
I absolutely understand, always have. Problem is Robinson got fined for a legitimate hit. They are fining hits that are within the framework of the game. That to me is a problem. \.

Robinson's hit was closer to being legal, but if you look at it again... he ducks his head at the end and does spear the receiver. It wasn't on a missed ball or directly to the side of the helmet, but he did lower his helmet and hit him with the top of his helmet.

If you're saying that the rule may be occasionally enforced incorrectly, well... welcome to rules.

But, that doesn't mean the rules shouldn't be in place.

If Robinson just leads with his shoulder and aimed for the numbers, I highly doubt this penalty ever gets called.

I'm not saying it's perfect. It can't be. I'm just saying that it's legitimate that they look into stopping the cheap shots and needless attempts to injure players.

gyldenlove
10-20-2010, 12:35 PM
i definitely don't understand this mentality.

i could give a rat's ass how much PR a player gets off the field. i don't follow players, i follow a team. players come and go. i don't care if everybody or nobody knows the name of the Broncos QB outside of Denver. all i care about the Broncos playing good, winning football. but having TMZ debate whether a QB should get his haircut or not (i'm talking about you Tom Brady) is an anathema on the future of the league.

all these "hyped" players on ESPN can leave the league and go have their Hollywood reality shows. i think the NFL would be better with them gone.

So you watch CFL and Arena league and UFL as well?

gyldenlove
10-20-2010, 12:44 PM
I absolutely understand, always have. Problem is Robinson got fined for a legitimate hit. They are fining hits that are within the framework of the game. That to me is a problem.

Merriweather is the other example. He acted with malice, and in my opinion should be suspended. You don't intentionally try to break another players neck.

My argument is not one of being macho but one that will keep the game as close to what it has been since its inception. Leading with the helmet deserves a fine, a good solid football hit of a wide receiver coming across the middle that takes a smack is legitimate.

I think this is much the same debate as they are having in hockey circles, you need to be able to distinguish between hits that are part of the action, delivered with no ill intend to a player who is in a hittable situation, such as in control of the ball or in the process of being in control of the ball, and hits delivered to players who are not part of the action.

The Robinson hit was delivered as part of a football play, I haven't seen a replay that conclusively showed it to be a shoulder or head hit yet, so I can't say if the hit was legal in that respect. Meriweather delivered his hit after the play and clearly in a way meant to injure, he can say what he want, but that was not a football play, that was thuggery.

I don't think they are looking to take out the big openfield hit on the ball carrier, or the bonecrusher that separates the reciever from the ball while he is making the catch, I think they are aiming at eliminating players looking to injure and looking to deliver cheap hits to players who are not part of the game.

Football like hockey will always be a physical sport, it is the nature of the beast, but that doesn't mean there should be room for deliberate intends to injure.

rbackfactory80
10-20-2010, 12:48 PM
Interesting chat with John Lynch on the subject

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/helmet-to-helmet-hit-John-Lynch-chat-101910

He does comment about the Robinson hit being legit.

rbackfactory80
10-20-2010, 12:53 PM
I think this is much the same debate as they are having in hockey circles, you need to be able to distinguish between hits that are part of the action, delivered with no ill intend to a player who is in a hittable situation, such as in control of the ball or in the process of being in control of the ball, and hits delivered to players who are not part of the action.

The Robinson hit was delivered as part of a football play, I haven't seen a replay that conclusively showed it to be a shoulder or head hit yet, so I can't say if the hit was legal in that respect. Meriweather delivered his hit after the play and clearly in a way meant to injure, he can say what he want, but that was not a football play, that was thuggery.

I don't think they are looking to take out the big openfield hit on the ball carrier, or the bonecrusher that separates the reciever from the ball while he is making the catch, I think they are aiming at eliminating players looking to injure and looking to deliver cheap hits to players who are not part of the game.

Football like hockey will always be a physical sport, it is the nature of the beast, but that doesn't mean there should be room for deliberate intends to injure.

I agree with you but the league has stated it will be fining and suspending for "devastating hits". Plenty of devastating hits take place within the rules of the game.

missingnumber7
10-20-2010, 01:06 PM
Robinson's hit was closer to being legal, but if you look at it again... he ducks his head at the end and does spear the receiver. It wasn't on a missed ball or directly to the side of the helmet, but he did lower his helmet and hit him with the top of his helmet.

If you're saying that the rule may be occasionally enforced incorrectly, well... welcome to rules.

But, that doesn't mean the rules shouldn't be in place.

If Robinson just leads with his shoulder and aimed for the numbers, I highly doubt this penalty ever gets called.

I'm not saying it's perfect. It can't be. I'm just saying that it's legitimate that they look into stopping the cheap shots and needless attempts to injure players.

The officials are given a list of priority calls or flags they damn well better throw. With all this attention on helmet to helmet contact you would think that we would have many more flags for that. But after week 1 it kinda died out. The BJ, FJ, and SJ all have the best views on these penalties and need to throw them. And hits like Merriweathers are ejectable offenses. Leading with the helmet is an ejectable offense at ALL levels of football. The NFL officials need to grow some balls and throw the flag and call the penalties as written. If the hits were enforced properly we wouldn't have as big of an issue right now. I don't think there would be fewer big hits, but I do think there would be less leading with the helmet. I don't care if its a bronco or not. When Dawk comes back I don't want to see him laying on the ground like Robinson was.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-20-2010, 01:08 PM
you didn't say talent. you said superstar. superstar is about fame. not all talented players are superstars and not all superstars are the most talented.

Jim Brown left at the peak of his career. the NFL didn't suffer.

you get a grip.

I'm saying talent now.

Are you saying the league would be better off without the most talented guys at the skill positions?

Fame has little to do with it, though most guys are famous because they play at a high level.

Quoydogs
10-20-2010, 01:16 PM
Just watched the video with stink! He ROCKS !

houghtam
10-20-2010, 02:10 PM
How are they not? Do you really think all of the bad hits are intentional? They aren't. Some are from guys missing where they intended to lay a big hit. They are going to force guys to stop going after legal big hits when people start getting suspended. Less big hits = a less physical game.

This country is one giant p***Y at this point.

IMO it isn't and shouldn't be 100% about intent. It's also about using proper technique. I find it funny how a lot of people are saying that this is the p***ification of the NFL, when most of you have never played a down of organized football in your lives.

At every level of football, you're taught to look the ball carrier into the tackle, just as you're supposed to look the ball into your hands. This means your head should always be up when making a tackle. I think 99% of this problem in the NFL would be solved if the players paid more attention to actually trying to get the ball carrier down as opposed to trying to kill him. Sure, it's partly the NFL's fault for marketing these big hits, but they're the ones who write the paychecks, so if they want to say screw this, it's hurting our business to have players unecessarily injured, then that's their prerogative.

Sure, there are going to be some times where there was no intent, but there was still helmet to helmet contact. That's why they'll be assessing the fines during the week, and not during the game.

Go ahead, flame away.

rbackfactory80
10-20-2010, 02:24 PM
IMO it isn't and shouldn't be 100% about intent. It's also about using proper technique. I find it funny how a lot of people are saying that this is the p***ification of the NFL, when most of you have never played a down of organized football in your lives.

At every level of football, you're taught to look the ball carrier into the tackle, just as you're supposed to look the ball into your hands. This means your head should always be up when making a tackle. I think 99% of this problem in the NFL would be solved if the players paid more attention to actually trying to get the ball carrier down as opposed to trying to kill him. Sure, it's partly the NFL's fault for marketing these big hits, but they're the ones who write the paychecks, so if they want to say screw this, it's hurting our business to have players unecessarily injured, then that's their prerogative.

Sure, there are going to be some times where there was no intent, but there was still helmet to helmet contact. That's why they'll be assessing the fines during the week, and not during the game.

Go ahead, flame away.

Well I did play organized football and will say that this is not the only reason for the pussification of the NFL. Its hits like the one on Brandon Lloyd that draw a flag, the flag that gets thrown everytime someone tries to breathe on Manning or Brady, throwing a flag if a receiver gets touched, clean hits that are drawing penalties. The game is changing very quickly.

Many people on this site have expressed their disapproval. Many of those were people whose avatar was John Lynch crushing someone. When Lynch hit someone hard he was all class but now the tune has changed. Many great players made a living of the kill-shot.

People are just realizing that pro football is dangerous business. As I have stated I don't condone someone trying to kill someone intentionally. Its a tough game people are going to get hurt.

Gort
10-20-2010, 03:14 PM
I'm saying talent now.

Are you saying the league would be better off without the most talented guys at the skill positions?

Fame has little to do with it, though most guys are famous because they play at a high level.

i'm saying that the league would be better off with players who weren't distracted by their off-the-field activities. the guys more concerned with getting a reality show or putting out a rap record or spending time dancing on TV shows should really just retire and move on to those other interests. the NFL was fine before they played and it will be fine after they are gone. football is a team game. individuals who put themselves before the team would have no place on my team were i head coach.

your term "superstar" is all about fame. not about talent. fame comes from the media. the media is obsessed with certain media markets and hype players from those teams over others.

but it doesn't matter because EVERYBODY in the NFL is replaceable. from Manning to Brady to Favre. when Manning's skills begin to wane, there will be other QBs waiting to take the mantle of the league's best QB. it's always been this way and will always be this way.

you act as if a league without Manning or Brady or Boldin or Ray Lewis (etc.) will somehow be inferior to what we have now. it's that mindset i don't understand. before Manning, there was Elway. before Elway, there was Tarkenton. before Tarkenton, there was Unitas.

Gort
10-20-2010, 03:21 PM
IMO it isn't and shouldn't be 100% about intent. It's also about using proper technique. I find it funny how a lot of people are saying that this is the p***ification of the NFL, when most of you have never played a down of organized football in your lives.

At every level of football, you're taught to look the ball carrier into the tackle, just as you're supposed to look the ball into your hands. This means your head should always be up when making a tackle. I think 99% of this problem in the NFL would be solved if the players paid more attention to actually trying to get the ball carrier down as opposed to trying to kill him. Sure, it's partly the NFL's fault for marketing these big hits, but they're the ones who write the paychecks, so if they want to say screw this, it's hurting our business to have players unecessarily injured, then that's their prerogative.

Sure, there are going to be some times where there was no intent, but there was still helmet to helmet contact. That's why they'll be assessing the fines during the week, and not during the game.

Go ahead, flame away.

i believe the concern is not about proper vs. improper technique. i'm not sure anyone is against players using proper technique.

the concern is a vague definition of what constitutes a "devastating" hit and having the league office issue fines and suspensions mid-week on plays that were legal and didn't draw a flag at the time.

i'm all for proper tackling. i prefer it to guys who lower their shoulder and try to put on a big hit. that's why i LOVE the effect Champ Bailey has on the younger DBs on the team. he takes great pride in making open field tackles and i like that rubbing off on the younger players. i've seen many players over the years go for the big hit and miss, only to allow a short gain to be turned into a large gain. that's not sound fundamental football and you wouldn't get away with that if Lombardi was your coach.

so i think 99% of the people worried about this change are not against stopping the obvious headhunters in the game. we're more worried about the potentially arbitrary nature in which fines and suspensions may be assessed after the fact because it's all being left to the judgement of somebody in the league office looking at film well after the fact.

strafen
10-20-2010, 07:58 PM
I've heard something funny on the radio...
"Bring back the leather hemets. That will cut down on the helmet to the head shots!" Ha!

Goobzilla
10-20-2010, 08:05 PM
Anyone catch Romanowski on The Ticket this evening? I'll give you one guess where he stands on this issue. The interesting part is he feels that way .even though he admitted too many concussions ended his career.

strafen
10-20-2010, 08:08 PM
Anyone catch Romanowski on The Ticket this evening? I'll give you one guess where he stands on this issue. The interesting part is he feels that way .even though he admitted too many concussions ended his career.Yup. That's where I've heard that comment.
Romo does not like it...:D

sisterhellfyre
10-20-2010, 11:52 PM
Well I did play organized football and will say that this is not the only reason for the pussification of the NFL.

Pussification? Meet testosterone poisoning.

Too much testosterone kills brain cells: "The researchers showed that high levels of testosterone triggered programmed cell death in nerve cells in culture. Cell death, or apoptosis, is critical in many life processes, including development and disease. It is characterized by membrane instability, activation of caspases, which are the executioner proteins in apoptosis, change in membrane potential, and DNA fragmentation."

She who laughs last...

Goobzilla
10-22-2010, 07:50 PM
Another DOZEN players were fined today nearly a full week after the games ended. It's ridiculous, how many pinheads do they have at the league office looking frame by frame for violations?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5715378

NEW YORK -- The NFL fined 12 more players Friday, mostly for unnecessary roughness in games last weekend, sending another strong message that violent conduct wouldn't be tolerated.

Minnesota defensive end Ray Edwards was fined the most, $20,000, for spearing Dallas running back Marion Barber on Sunday. Edwards was cited as a repeat offender; he was previously fined Aug. 28 for roughing the passer and Sept. 26 for unnecessary roughness.

"I just got fined $20,000 for a spear that really wasn't a spear," Edwards said. "If you look at the last play, (Dallas tackle Marc) Colombo speared Jared (Allen) and I don't believe he got fined. If you're going to fine people, fine everybody. Don't just fine defensive guys."

Edwards
Edwards

The league did not fine Colombo.

Earlier this week, huge fines were given for flagrant fouls by Pittsburgh's James Harrison ($75,000), Atlanta's Dunta Robinson and New England's Brandon Meriweather (both $50,000). The league also promised suspensions for players who make illegal hits on defenseless opponents. A video was sent to the 32 teams explaining what hits are considered legal and illegal.

The 15 fines were unusually high for one week, a signal of the NFL's resolve to police violent play. Generally, either a $5,000 or $10,000 fine is handed out for roughness. In this week's total all but two were for roughness. On Oct. 1 the league also issued 15 fines, 10 for roughness.

Included in the latest penalties:

• New Orleans cornerback Malcolm Jenkins was fined $10,000 for two hits, one to the head area of Tampa Bay quarterback Josh Freeman and one out of bounds.

• Tennessee defensive end William Hayes was fined $10,000 for a late hit, while teammate Dave Ball was given a $5,000 fine for roughing the passer with a hit to the head or neck area against Jacksonville.

• Three Houston players were fined $5,000: guard Wade Smith for a leg whip, defensive end Adewale Ogunleye for a late hit on Kansas City quarterback Matt Cassel, and safety Bernard Pollard for hitting a Chiefs player out of bounds.

• Philadelphia quarterback Kevin Kolb was fined $5,000 for a horse-collar tackle on Atlanta's William Moore while Moore was returning an interception.

• San Francisco safety Dashon Goldson was fined $5,000 for striking Raiders receiver Louis Murphy late.

• Minnesota receiver Bernard Berrian was fined $5,000 for a late hit on Dallas DE Jason Hatcher.

• Detroit guard Stephen Peterman was fined $7,500 for a late hit on Giants safety Antrel Rolle.

• San Diego linebacker Antwan Barnes was fined $5,000 for unnecessarily striking St. Louis quarterback Sam Bradford in the chest and neck.

Harrison, who threatened to retire after the NFL's crackdown, was fined for his tackle of Browns receiver Mohamed Massaquoi, who suffered a concussion. He also had a hard hit on former college teammate Joshua Cribbs.

On Friday, Cribbs told his friend not to change the way he plays, and that Harrison's job is to simply "knock people out."

Cribbs, who played at Kent State with Harrison, believes he helped persuade Pittsburgh's big hitter not to retire.


Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press

Quoydogs
10-22-2010, 08:31 PM
So when are they changing the name to Soccer ?

baja
10-22-2010, 09:20 PM
where does the money go?

I hope it is but into a fund to help retired players in some fashion.

Popps
10-22-2010, 09:36 PM
Also keep in mind, rules can flex back and forth on issues like this. Right now, the league is tightening up, trying to avoid a serious injury. A few seasons goes by without one, and you'll probably see less flags/fines for this stuff.

azbroncfan
10-23-2010, 01:18 AM
During the Broncos' 24-20 loss to the Jets on 17 October, Lloyd was subjected to a helmet-to-helmet tackle/hit by New York safety Jim Leonhard, resulting in a 15-yard penalty. This hit, along with several other helmet-to-helmet hits during NFL games that weekend, lead the league to announce such future 'devastating hits' or 'head shots' will be met with possible suspensions even for first-time offenders, a significant change in league policy, especially during an on-going season[4].

That is BS comment in my view. The league is getting out of control and the hit that added 15 more to Lloyds catch was freaking BS. Let the men play football.

The MVPlaya
10-23-2010, 01:51 AM
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6306/ochocinco2.gif

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dgNREzBAnY4" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Gort
10-23-2010, 02:00 AM
So when are they changing the name to Soccer ?

i think Brady, Manning, and Sanchez will find that flopping and diving comes second nature to them.

Philadelphia quarterback Kevin Kolb was fined $5,000 for a horse-collar tackle on Atlanta's William Moore while Moore was returning an interception.

what's next? are they going to start fining people for illegal procedure?

out-of-game fines for penalties that are already "policed" in-game by throwing flags and marking off yardage seem unfair to me. if the NFL players hadn't all de-certified their union in preparation for next year's lockout, their union could now have been raising a stink about this nonsense.

this is all about PR from the league office. it's not about cracking down on "violence" that is going unpunished.

baja
10-23-2010, 07:37 AM
That is BS comment in my view. The league is getting out of control and the hit that added 15 more to Lloyds catch was freaking BS. Let the men play football.

I like what Phil Simms had to say about it on "Inside the NFL" this week.

He said you need to protect the players from these devastating head injuries and there is a way to do it without losing the excitement of the game, wrap up and tackle. Obviously he had a lot more to say as did the others. It's worth watching the segment. It's on several more times on Show Time

loborugger
10-23-2010, 10:14 AM
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6306/ochocinco2.gif

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dgNREzBAnY4" frameborder="0"></iframe>

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FsqJFIJ5lLs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FsqJFIJ5lLs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

JJJ
10-23-2010, 11:01 AM
I doubt it. This play shockingly didn't even draw a flag, much less a suspension.

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hFpnxVrT8Js?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hFpnxVrT8Js?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

I feel no sympathy for any Titan in regards to a cheap shot. They are the masters of it. Took out Merriman, Gates, and a few others on our squad over the years all on cheap shots.

gyldenlove
10-23-2010, 11:03 AM
where does the money go?

I hope it is put into a fund to help retired players in some fashion.

That is exactly what happens with the fine money.

The National Football League (NFL) also has rendered five-figure fines against players for fighting and other unsavory behavior as a disciplinary measure.

The fines levied by the NFL benefit charitable organizations as well. The league makes equal payments in the thousands to four charitable groups.

The four recipients are the Football League Players' Assistant Trust Fund, which assists retired players; the Brian Piccolo Cancer Research Fund; the Vince Lombardi Cancer Research Center; and the ALS Neuromuscular Research Foundation, according to Reggie Roberts, director of information for the National Foot-December.

Goobzilla
10-24-2010, 10:17 AM
I've decided I'm sick of this subject, it's the only G-D thing on the pregame shows. It's as bad as all the campaign ads. Guess all we can do is see how it plays out.

cutthemdown
10-24-2010, 10:42 AM
Well I did play organized football and will say that this is not the only reason for the pussification of the NFL. Its hits like the one on Brandon Lloyd that draw a flag, the flag that gets thrown everytime someone tries to breathe on Manning or Brady, throwing a flag if a receiver gets touched, clean hits that are drawing penalties. The game is changing very quickly.

Many people on this site have expressed their disapproval. Many of those were people whose avatar was John Lynch crushing someone. When Lynch hit someone hard he was all class but now the tune has changed. Many great players made a living of the kill-shot.

People are just realizing that pro football is dangerous business. As I have stated I don't condone someone trying to kill someone intentionally. Its a tough game people are going to get hurt.

I mentioned how much the technique of being a missile with crown of helmet out in front was used by Dennis Smith. He knocked out more players by hitting them in the head then any other Bronco player ever. He hit with so much more ferocity then Atwater did.

Then some idiot posts one pic of Dennis Smith not hitting someone in the head to try and prove he didn't play like that. Proved to me right there he hasn't been a Bronco fans since the early 80's

Rock Chalk
10-24-2010, 10:44 AM
I feel no sympathy for any Titan in regards to a cheap shot. They are the masters of it. Took out Merriman, Gates, and a few others on our squad over the years all on cheap shots.

They took out Merriman because on the play preceeding that Merriman put a cheap shot on Vince.

He deserved it the dirty ****.

Cito Pelon
10-24-2010, 11:01 AM
I've decided I'm sick of this subject, it's the only G-D thing on the pregame shows. It's as bad as all the campaign ads. Guess all we can do is see how it plays out.

I don't care either way. I can see both sides of the argument. These guys play the game voluntarily.

The key word in what the league is trying to eliminate is "gratuitous" hits. As in "Uncalled for; lacking good reason; unwarranted".

Goobzilla
10-24-2010, 11:33 AM
Ernie Sims just blasted Chris Johnson H2H. No penalty of course, but he'll hear from the league office.

Quoydogs
10-24-2010, 12:45 PM
Ernie Sims just blasted Chris Johnson H2H. No penalty of course, but he'll hear from the league office.

We should make a betting pool of how many suspensions there are after this week.