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Punisher
10-18-2010, 08:32 PM
Lots of truth comes out when one is shiit faced, you are a fag in denial. get a mamacure.


( no offense meant Chris)

I am gay and i like sirhcyennek81

Archer81
10-18-2010, 08:32 PM
Lots of truth comes out when one is shiit faced, you are a fag in denial. get a mamacure.


( no offense meant Chris)



None taken. The dude is acting like a fag.

And not any fag. Perez Hilton having a baby with Elton John then let Liberace adopt it type fag.



:Broncos:

Taco John
10-18-2010, 08:32 PM
I get the feeling you're being a bit disingenuous here, either playing devil's advocate or trying to frontrun the crowd and getting on a Tebow bandwagon before if/when he blows up.


You can think what you want. It's inconsequential to me.

Also, there's little point in front-running an obvious train that is due into the station. Nobody remembers that kind of stuff. The only way anyone would have gotten credit for front-running Tebow is if they had been campaigning for him in November and December before he was drafted, and were available to take their lumps for it. Nobody did that.

Punisher
10-18-2010, 08:33 PM
None taken. The dude is acting like a fag.

And not any fag. Perez Hilton having a baby with Elton John then let Liberace adopt it type fag.



:Broncos:

I want you soo bad baby

baja
10-18-2010, 08:34 PM
You can think what you want. It's inconsequential to me.

Also, there's little point in front-running an obvious train that is due into the station. Nobody remembers that kind of stuff. The only way anyone would have gotten credit for front-running Tebow is if they had been campaigning for him in November and December before he was drafted, and were available to take their lumps for it. Nobody did that.

I did. I just didn't think it was right to say anything before the draft out of respect to Josh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabronco
There is a poster here on the Mane who had close ties with a former Broncos coach, who bragged about their gossip during fishing trips in baja.So you never know..


Baja -
Did I ever tell you that Josh McDaniels is an avid spelunker. last January I was caving outside of La Paz, Baja. I was unpacking my donkey and I hear a high pitched voice saying, All I want to do is see the MFing cave, I don't need a permit for that." and low and behold I looked over and there stood Josh McDaniels in shorts and a miner's light (damn that dude is white). Well I told him I could get him into the cave because my cousin was the permit issuer. I noticed he had crappy shoes too and I had an extra pair of caving shoes (he sure has big feet for a short guy) that I lent him. Well we paired up than and I lead him into the cave. We were in about 600 feet and hit a tight spot. I suggested he go first because he is a lot smaller than me and away he went, guy's got balls. He moved a rock or two and I was able to squeeze in behind him. We found ourselves is a tiny room. Just then there was a rumble and the light at the exit went dark. We were pretty worried and feared for our lives. Thinking he might die he started to talk. I just listened and as he talked he felt an urge to confess what he thought were his sins. The first thing on his mind was about a big lie he was carrying. almost in tears he told me he really screwed up in his job. He told me he tried to trade for a mediocre football player by the name of Matt Cassell. I just listened not letting on I was a Bronco fan or even knew who he was. If he knew I was a Bronco fan he would have never told me the things he did. Anyway he said it cost his team a really really good quarterback named Cutler and the lie was a big burden to carry. He said it probably set his team back 10 years and he let down his owner who had given him complete power on personal decisions. He is a really sincere guy with a lot of integrity. He went on to say he had to blame the whole affair on Cutler to save face and he was not proud of that. He said the other big lie he was living was he was going to draft a project quarter back that everyone knew would take three years to develop thus insuring the safety of his job for at least three years. He started to cry than saying how he had betrayed the trust of Mr. Bowlen and had taken advantage of him because he was a gutless drunk. Little Josh was in rough shape by then. We forgot the water on the donkey and we knew we could not survive long with out water. It was then he shared his deepest darkest secret. He had made a pact with his mentor to destroy the Broncos but he was having a change of heart. He started to tell me about the devious plan but his voice trailed off and he began to shake uncontrollably with cold, I handed him my hoodie and he gave me a look like he thought he was looking at an angel. He said I will never forget you Baja Fan and if I ever get out of this I will wear this hoodie on the sidelines on gameday in your honor. He resumed his story about his and Belichick's plan to destroy the Broncos when we heard a noise like rocks moving than there was a sliver of light.

The story goes on but I'll save the rest for another day.

Taco John
10-18-2010, 08:35 PM
This from a guy who thought Brian Griese was the second coming, and Jay Cutler the third coming.


You weren't even here for Griese and don't know what you're talking about. I never thought Brian Griese was the second coming. I thought Brian Griese could be what Orton is for us right now. That's essentially what Orton is: Griese 3.0. Griese could have been very good for us if he hadn't have blown up his shoulder against Oakland.

It's true that I defended the guy a little too long. His arm was gone.

As far as Cutler goes, I don't think the book has closed on him by any stretch. He's having a rough time right now, that's for sure.

baja
10-18-2010, 08:38 PM
<b>You weren't even here for Griese and don't know what you're talking about. I never thought Brian Griese was the second coming. I thought Brian Griese could be what Orton is for us right now. That's essentially what Orton is: Griese 3.0. Griese could have been very good for us if he hadn't have blown up his shoulder against Oakland. </b>

It's true that I defended the guy a little too long. His arm was gone.

As far as Cutler goes, I don't think the book has closed on him by any stretch. He's having a rough time right now, that's for sure.

I agree with this.

Taco John
10-18-2010, 08:44 PM
Just stop with the stupid Punchlines you dickhole


The only thing you've been good for lately is disrupting conversations and vulgarity. You can go walk in the woods for awhile and come back if you're ready to talk some football.

Archer81
10-18-2010, 08:45 PM
The only thing you've been good for lately is disrupting conversations and vulgarity. You can go walk in the woods for awhile and come back if you're ready to talk some football.


Did anyone tell you you're my hero?

You are the wind beneath my wings.


:Broncos:

broncocalijohn
10-18-2010, 08:48 PM
Has Punisher just surpassed Bob on this board? God help us all

well, ive had both on iggy for a long time. Six time eight should come in and settle this once in for all; who is the biggest douche and immature poster of all here.

Taco John
10-18-2010, 08:51 PM
well, ive had both on iggy for a long time. Six time eight should come in and settle this once in for all; who is the biggest douche and immature poster of all here.

There's another name walking on thin ice and bringing very little to the discussion to justify their miserable existence.

You know, you can get away with a lot of douchiness if you can also manage to bring it. But being a douche and that being your sole contribution. That gets old fast.

epicSocialism4tw
10-18-2010, 08:54 PM
Weird gay/kind of gay/not gay/gay? flameout.

Lets multiply the awkwardness further with a picture of Bob:

http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2008/12/75%20Awkward.jpg

Taco John
10-18-2010, 08:57 PM
WHat has been seen cannot be unseen...

cabronco
10-18-2010, 08:57 PM
Did I ever tell you that Josh McDaniels is an avid spelunker. last May I was caving outside of La Paz, Baja. I was unpacking my donkey and I hear a high pitched voice saying, All I want to do is see the MFing cave, I don't need a permit for that." and low and behold I looked over and there stood Josh McDaniels in shorts and a miner's light (damn that dude is white). Well I told him I could get him into the cave because my cousin was the permit issuer. I noticed he had crappy shoes too and I had an extra pair of caving shoes (he sure has big feet for a short guy) that I lent him. Well we paired up than and I lead him into the cave. We were in about 600 feet and hit a tight spot. I suggested he go first because he is a lot smaller than me and away he went, guy's got balls. He moved a rock or two and I was able to squeeze in behind him. We found ourselves is a tiny room. Just then there was a rumble and the light at the exit went dark. We were pretty worried and feared for our lives. Thinking he might die he started to talk. I just listened and as he talked he felt an urge to confess what he thought were his sins. The first thing on his mind was about a big lie he was carrying. almost in tears he told me he really screwed up in his job. He told me he tried to trade for a mediocre football player by the name of Matt Cassell. I just listened not letting on I was a Bronco fan or even knew who he was. If he knew I was a Bronco fan he would have never told me the things he did. Anyway he said it cost his team a really really good quarterback named Cutler and the lie was a big burden to carry. He said it probably set his team back 10 years and he let down his owner who had given him complete power on personal decisions. He is a really sincere guy with a lot of integrity. He went on to say he had to blame the whole affair on Cutler to save face and he was not proud of that. He said the other big lie he was living was he was going to draft a project quarter back that everyone knew would take three years to develop thus insuring the safety of his job for at least three years. He started to cry than saying how he had betrayed the trust of Mr. Bowlen and had taken advantage of him because he was a gutless drunk. Little Josh was in rough shape by then. We forgot the water on the donkey and we knew we could not survive long with out water. It was then he shared his deepest darkest secret. He had made a pact with his mentor to destroy the Broncos but he was having a change of heart. He started to tell me about the devious plan but his voice trailed off and he began to shake uncontrollably with cold, I handed him my hoodie and he gave me a look like he thought he was looking at an angel. He said I will never forget you Baja Fan and if I ever get out of this I will wear this hoodie on the sidelines on gameday in your honor. He resumed his story about his and Belichick's plan to destroy the Broncos when we heard a noise like rocks moving than there was a sliver of light.

The story goes on but I'll save the rest for another day.


I knew it, I knew it he came in to take down the Broncos. Now he's feeling guilty, esp. after the Hillis trade prolly...I cant read much more cause my eyes are seeing double & bleeding after all that, but Josina's got nothing on you .

footstepsfrom#27
10-18-2010, 09:04 PM
It is dumb when we have the ball, or are in the huddle. I guess people who don't attend games don't know this.:wiggle:

THE DUMBASSES WERE MAKING A BUNCH OF NOISE!
So basically you're saying these people literally caused our offense to not be able to function well because of the noise they made? I find that absurdly difficult to believe, especially in this stadium.

Ray Finkle
10-18-2010, 09:15 PM
You weren't even here for Griese and don't know what you're talking about. I never thought Brian Griese was the second coming. I thought Brian Griese could be what Orton is for us right now. That's essentially what Orton is: Griese 3.0. Griese could have been very good for us if he hadn't have blown up his shoulder against Oakland.

It's true that I defended the guy a little too long. His arm was gone.

As far as Cutler goes, I don't think the book has closed on him by any stretch. He's having a rough time right now, that's for sure.

I remember when you campaigned to keep Griese and get Flozell Adams instead of Jake :D

Dagmar
10-18-2010, 09:48 PM
Speak for yourself and the Tebownites.

Absolutely not what I meant. I won't agree with it, but it's what will happen.

Taco is right, Tim Tebow is the future of the Denver Broncos, just like McCoy is the future of the Browns and Clausen is the future of the Panthers. Like it or not.

Taco John
10-18-2010, 09:55 PM
I remember when you campaigned to keep Griese and get Flozell Adams instead of Jake :D

That's some memory you've got. Flozell Adams might still be playing for us today if we'd have made that move. That guy has started nearly every game since 2003.

My defense of Griese was that he was getting killed by his o-line. We have moved a back-up center to play starting left tackle, and outside of Rod, Ashley Lelie was his best receiver at the time. But his shoulder was hamburger, so protection might not have mattered.

Jake was a good regular season quarterback, but the guy was a disaster in big games. Any amount of spotlight burnt the guy like he was a vampire in the sun.

SoCalBronco
10-18-2010, 09:57 PM
Absolutely not what I meant. I won't agree with it, but it's what will happen.

Taco is right, Tim Tebow is the future of the Denver Broncos, just like Hillis is the future of the Browns and Clausen is the future of the Panthers. Like it or not.

Fixed your post, Dag.

Dagmar
10-18-2010, 09:59 PM
Fixed your post, Dag.

When I typed it, I was positive someone was going to do exactly that! :spit:

chex
10-19-2010, 05:49 AM
You weren't even here for Griese and don't know what you're talking about. I never thought Brian Griese was the second coming. I thought Brian Griese could be what Orton is for us right now. That's essentially what Orton is: Griese 3.0. Griese could have been very good for us if he hadn't have blown up his shoulder against Oakland.

It's true that I defended the guy a little too long. His arm was gone.

As far as Cutler goes, I don't think the book has closed on him by any stretch. He's having a rough time right now, that's for sure.

Don't be so sure TJ. I remember the days when you defended Griese to the death. Going so far to say if he had the proper tools around him, he'd be the best QB in the league, "bar none". Calling people who didn't like Griese, "widows". He was a sacred cow for you, just like Shanahan was. Then Griese bounced around the league, and was replaced here by a QB that led us to the AFCCC, who you drilled regularly. Even going so far to blame him for the defense giving up 50 points to the Colts in the playoffs. Remember that? Remember how you said we were down 35 by halftime because Plummer couldn't keep the offense on the field, when the following week, Brady and the Pats had the ball less and only gave up something like 3 points at the half. Even came up with pretty little charts to try and prove your thesis. So maybe I WAS here afterall? :P

But I digress.

In any event, you're on smack if you're calling Orton 'Griese 3.0'. The only two QB's here to perform at a high level since 1998 are Plummer & Orton. All others are trash.

chex
10-19-2010, 05:58 AM
You can think what you want. It's inconsequential to me.

Also, there's little point in front-running an obvious train that is due into the station. Nobody remembers that kind of stuff. The only way anyone would have gotten credit for front-running Tebow is if they had been campaigning for him in November and December before he was drafted, and were available to take their lumps for it. Nobody did that.

Which doesn't explain how you're gaga and making huge predictions over a QB that has 6 rushes and zero passes. I think you're just putting it out there in the event something does by chance happen, and you can point to these posts at how you called it early on. It's cool. No worries brah. I just don't think that you truly believe in it, if only for the fact that you pride yourself on being such a student of the game, yet you're calling for a ****storm of a controversy because you saw Tebow run some specific plays. :peace:

Rock Chalk
10-19-2010, 06:20 AM
That's some memory you've got. Flozell Adams might still be playing for us today if we'd have made that move. That guy has started nearly every game since 2003.

My defense of Griese was that he was getting killed by his o-line. We have moved a back-up center to play starting left tackle, and outside of Rod, Ashley Lelie was his best receiver at the time. But his shoulder was hamburger, so protection might not have mattered.

Jake was a good regular season quarterback, but the guy was a disaster in big games. Any amount of spotlight burnt the guy like he was a vampire in the sun.

Your defense of Griese was admirably stupid when considering Jake had a WORSE O-line you NEVER ONCE gave him that benefit of the doubt. I remember Mathis came off the edge one of the games against Indy and caused Jake to fumble and you blamed Jake for not getting rid fo the ball in like .3 seconds and never once blamed that offensive line for the horrendous job it was doing.

Jake survived in Denver and thrived DESPITE that ****ty offensive line we had because of his mobility. It wasn't Jake's limitations that forced Shanahan to reduce his playbook, it was the offensive lines inability to ****ign protect the QB.

Cutler's first year playing, you know when he took over for a 7-4 Jake Plummer, he got effing drilled constantly. The next year we improved the offensive line and bam, all of a sudden Jay was able to sit back and stare down whatever receiver he wanted to throw the ball into triple coverage to.

But you NEVER gave Jake the benefit of the doubt. You hated him from the start because he replaced your boy toy Griese.

Edit:
And by this thread you are already pining for Tebow despite having a very nice QB in Orton running a system fairly well considering all the injuries. My suspicion is that at the very first sign of trouble from Orton you will be off his bandwagon and bashign him and praising all things Tebow.

That's your MO.

BroncoInferno
10-19-2010, 06:29 AM
I have some reserved excitement for Tebow, too...but I'm not sure how exactly you were blown away on Sunday, Taco. He carried the the ball 6 times for 23 yards and a TD and threw zero passes. Hardly the kind of jaw dropping performance you are making it seem to be.

One thing I do wonder about is whether or not McD has visions of using Tebow similar to the way he was used at Florida as a full-time QB. In other words, spreading the D out and letting Tebow run it 10-15 times a game in edition to throwing 30+ passes. The stuff going on right now is just gimicky stuff. But what will our offense look like in a year or two when Tebow inevitably takes over?

Ray Finkle
10-19-2010, 06:33 AM
That's some memory you've got. Flozell Adams might still be playing for us today if we'd have made that move. That guy has started nearly every game since 2003.

My defense of Griese was that he was getting killed by his o-line. We have moved a back-up center to play starting left tackle, and outside of Rod, Ashley Lelie was his best receiver at the time. But his shoulder was hamburger, so protection might not have mattered.

Jake was a good regular season quarterback, but the guy was a disaster in big games. Any amount of spotlight burnt the guy like he was a vampire in the sun.


:D that was around 02 or 03 when I started lurking....

lostknight
10-19-2010, 06:47 AM
It wasn't Jake's limitations that forced Shanahan to reduce his playbook, it was the offensive lines inability to ****ign protect the QB.


This I really disagree with, Jake could bootleg, and he could be mobile in the pocket, but the man simply could not throw all the throws, or understand everything in the field. That's part of the reason why it wasn't until Shanahan started restricting the playbook, in particular the reads, that Jake did better.


Cutler's first year playing, you know when he took over for a 7-4 Jake Plummer, he got effing drilled constantly.

Yet significantly outperformed Jake immediately. Jake had virtually abandoned the team when they picked up Cutler, and he did it for real at the end of the season.

Ray Finkle
10-19-2010, 06:50 AM
Your defense of Griese was admirably stupid when considering Jake had a WORSE O-line you NEVER ONCE gave him that benefit of the doubt. I remember Mathis came off the edge one of the games against Indy and caused Jake to fumble and you blamed Jake for not getting rid fo the ball in like .3 seconds and never once blamed that offensive line for the horrendous job it was doing.

Jake survived in Denver and thrived DESPITE that ****ty offensive line we had because of his mobility. It wasn't Jake's limitations that forced Shanahan to reduce his playbook, it was the offensive lines inability to ****ign protect the QB.

Cutler's first year playing, you know when he took over for a 7-4 Jake Plummer, he got effing drilled constantly. The next year we improved the offensive line and bam, all of a sudden Jay was able to sit back and stare down whatever receiver he wanted to throw the ball into triple coverage to.

But you NEVER gave Jake the benefit of the doubt. You hated him from the start because he replaced your boy toy Griese.

Edit:
And by this thread you are already pining for Tebow despite having a very nice QB in Orton running a system fairly well considering all the injuries. My suspicion is that at the very first sign of trouble from Orton you will be off his bandwagon and bashign him and praising all things Tebow.

That's your MO.

I like Orton and think he is playing very well, however, he does not make game changing plays (to win the game). I am more than happy with him this year and next and if/when Tebow is ready to step up in start, flipping him for picks. I do not think that should happen this year though.

Jay3
10-19-2010, 06:58 AM
I don't get the "gimicky" label when it looks pretty vanilla. Straight ahead running.

BroncoInferno
10-19-2010, 07:06 AM
I don't get the "gimicky" label when it looks pretty vanilla. Straight ahead running.

It's "gimicky" if you have the regular QB flanked out at WR and there is little threat of a pass (at least, that's how it's being done so far). Not "gimicky" in the sense of a flea-flicker or some other trick play but gimicky in the sense of using a special package that is wildly different from your regular packages for a handful of plays a game designed specifically to catch the D off-guard.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-19-2010, 07:14 AM
It's "gimicky" if you have the regular QB flanked out at WR and there is little threat of a pass (at least, that's how it's being done so far). Not "gimicky" in the sense of a flea-flicker or some other trick play but gimicky in the sense of using a special package that is wildly different from your regular packages for a handful of plays a game designed specifically to catch the D off-guard.

Gimmicky.

Just thought it should be said once more.

baja
10-19-2010, 07:41 AM
i blame this quarter back controversy on BroncoInferno.

Jay3
10-19-2010, 08:26 AM
It's "gimicky" if you have the regular QB flanked out at WR and there is little threat of a pass (at least, that's how it's being done so far). Not "gimicky" in the sense of a flea-flicker or some other trick play but gimicky in the sense of using a special package that is wildly different from your regular packages for a handful of plays a game designed specifically to catch the D off-guard.

I understand better, thanks.

MplsBronco
10-19-2010, 08:28 AM
I like Orton and think he is playing very well, however, he does not make game changing plays (to win the game). I am more than happy with him this year and next and if/when Tebow is ready to step up in start, flipping him for picks. I do not think that should happen this year though.

Would you be singing a different tune if DT catches that ball at the 2 on Sunday? Hell of a throw and guys have to step up and make plays. Orton can't do it himself.

CEH
10-19-2010, 08:33 AM
It wasn't Jake's limitations that forced Shanahan to reduce his playbook, it was the offensive lines inability to ****ign protect the QB..

I'll tell you exactly when Shanny pulled the reigns back on Jake and his terrible decision making

Dec 12 2004: The 1-10 MIA came into Invesco and Jake threw a terrible 3rd qtr Red Zone INT and I remember listening to Logan and group start talking about Jake running exactly what is called without improvisation basically a game manager

That was the final straw

Ray Finkle
10-19-2010, 08:36 AM
Would you be singing a different tune if DT catches that ball at the 2 on Sunday? Hell of a throw and guys have to step up and make plays. Orton can't do it himself.

not at all....Orton is a good to average QB that could start on many teams in this league but will never be one to put fear in the hearts of a defense in the 4th quarter. Lloyd has made Orton look like a good QB on many of the deep passes to him.

baja
10-19-2010, 08:38 AM
I'll tell you exactly when Shanny pulled the reigns back on Jake and his terrible decision making

Dec 12 2004: The 1-10 MIA came into Invesco and Jake threw a terrible 3rd qtr Red Zone INT and I remember listening to Logan and group start talking about Jake running exactly what is called without improvisation basically a game manager

That was the final straw

I think Jake's days became numbered after his performance in the AFCC. Shanny came to believe he would never win a SB with jake so he moved up and got Cutler.

Archer81
10-19-2010, 08:38 AM
Jake was not comfortable in the pocket. Blame Arizona to an extent for that. He was good on the move. Made sense then to maximize what Jake was good at to have successful offense. Things changed when teams started to keep Jake in the pocket and force him to make reads from there rather then on the move.

:Broncos:

Ray Finkle
10-19-2010, 08:44 AM
Jake was not comfortable in the pocket. Blame Arizona to an extent for that. He was good on the move. Made sense then to maximize what Jake was good at to have successful offense. Things changed when teams started to keep Jake in the pocket and force him to make reads from there rather then on the move.

:Broncos:

Jake stunk in the pocket in college....

Boogerboots
10-19-2010, 08:45 AM
I don't believe this is as much of a QB controversy as much as it's the overall lack of success in the redzone and the gameplan used there. What happened to the roll outs, screens and bootlegs and bringing in a TE into the receiver set for a change instead of 3 and 4 wide sets inside the 20?

Again using the O'Donnell-Stewart analogy, using Tebow as some sort of wild bronco set in the backfield or as our version of "Slash" is not the answer.

Let Orton have his chance now and allow Tebow to develop for the future. Now is not the time to throw Orton under the bus and we shouldn't risk having Tebow end up like Kordella or Matt Jones.

Archer81
10-19-2010, 08:46 AM
Jake stunk in the pocket in college....


Yes. Forgot to type in and ASU.

Jake still had a nice chunk of wins here. He did some good things. Then we brought in Cutler and many of us (myself included) thought the QB situation was solved for the next 10 years...

How naive I was...


:Broncos:

Taco John
10-19-2010, 08:52 AM
I have some reserved excitement for Tebow, too...but I'm not sure how exactly you were blown away on Sunday, Taco. He carried the the ball 6 times for 23 yards and a TD and threw zero passes. Hardly the kind of jaw dropping performance you are making it seem to be.

"Blown Away" isn't the right word for what I was. I wasn't blown away. "High" is a better word for what I was. I was completely on the edge of my seat the whole time, anticipating... anticipating... anticipating... It wasn't anything in particular that he did. It was the potential about what he could/might do. It was how the defense reacted to him. It was how our own offense reacted to him.

Your mileage might have varied. BUt I felt like a crack fiend who hadn't had a fix in over a decade, and is getting a taste of the modern stuff. I just wanted to see more. There was absolutely nothing rational about it. OR maybe there was - we were in the redzone, and I didn't feel like anybody could stop us. I felt like it was a given that Tebow with his size and ability, would score.

Taco John
10-19-2010, 08:57 AM
Your defense of Griese was admirably stupid when considering Jake had a WORSE O-line you NEVER ONCE gave him that benefit of the doubt.

This is because that never happened. Jake never had a worse Oline than Griese. There's no way that was even possible.

I started out a big Plummer fan, because he was a home state hero in Idaho. I would have loved to see Jake win it all and become even more iconic here. But I wasn't going to invent excuses for him that didn't exist. The guy choked in big games and started playing like his heart wasn't in it.

Taco John
10-19-2010, 09:07 AM
And for the record, I'm not even calling for Tebow. I'm just making an observation that I believe the more the fans see him on the field, the more bold the collective will be about calling for him to replace Orton - and the more critical they will become of Orton in general. (x2 if we're losing)

Archer81
10-19-2010, 09:10 AM
And for the record, I'm not even calling for Tebow. I'm just making an observation that I believe the more the fans see him on the field, the more bold the collective will be about calling for him to replace Orton - and the more critical they will become of Orton in general. (x2 if we're losing)


This is true of anywhere. Green Bay with farvruh and rodgers, Philly with Kolb and McNabb. It happens. But I dont believe Josh will give in to fan pressure to put Tebow in before he is ready to take on the role.


:Broncos:

baja
10-19-2010, 09:11 AM
And for the record, I'm not even calling for Tebow. I'm just making an observation that I believe the more the fans see him on the field, the more bold the collective will be about calling for him to replace Orton - and the more critical they will become of Orton in general. (x2 if we're losing)

Isn't that kind of stating the obvious.

Beantown Bronco
10-19-2010, 09:12 AM
I like Orton and think he is playing very well, however, he does not make game changing plays (to win the game).

He just had a HUGE 3rd and 11 run for 13 yards on the final field goal drive which should have been the game winning drive Sunday. Then he gets the ball back with a minute to go and needing a TD and all he does is go 3-4 for 40 yards before the center craps the bed on him.

2009 vs. Cincy, NE, Dallas, etc. All game changing plays with him at QB. He brought us back to win I think 4 games when we were losing in the 4th quarter last year.

The guy doesn't choke late in games like others do. He really seems to shine when the pressure is on.

Taco John
10-19-2010, 09:23 AM
Isn't that kind of stating the obvious.

I didn't think that I was saying anything revolutionary. I just wondered if people thought Josh is playing with fire. I personally think he is because I think the more games we lose, the louder the clamour for Tebow is going to be.

Beantown Bronco
10-19-2010, 09:25 AM
I personally think he is because I think the more games we lose, the louder the clamour for Tebow is going to be.

Luckily, we've only got one or two more of those in us this year.

Taco John
10-19-2010, 09:34 AM
Luckily, we've only got one or two more of those in us this year.

Amen to that! :thumbsup:

chex
10-19-2010, 09:36 AM
"Blown Away" isn't the right word for what I was. I wasn't blown away. "High" is a better word for what I was. I was completely on the edge of my seat the whole time, anticipating... anticipating... anticipating... It wasn't anything in particular that he did. It was the potential about what he could/might do. It was how the defense reacted to him. It was how our own offense reacted to him.

Your mileage might have varied. BUt I felt like a crack fiend who hadn't had a fix in over a decade, and is getting a taste of the modern stuff. I just wanted to see more. There was absolutely nothing rational about it. OR maybe there was - we were in the redzone, and I didn't feel like anybody could stop us. I felt like it was a given that Tebow with his size and ability, would score.

Fair enough, but what happens if/when he does start? That novelty, edge, or whatever you want to call it, will dissipate very quickly once his presence isn't a surprise anymore. His calling card right now is to come in and shake things up a bit, but that's only effective when it's for a few plays a game. The league has been gameplanning for Michael Vick for how many years now, and Tebow is nowhere near the runner Vick is.

If you're excited about his goalline abilities, then maybe we should campaign to put him in as a RB, but I don't know too many rational fans that will call for Tebow to start no matter what he does, especially when Orton is the one thing keeping us afloat so far. Tebow running up the middle, or running the edge doesn't make me long for him to be our starter. Sorry, I just don't see what it is you're gushing over.

TonyR
10-19-2010, 09:37 AM
...Josh is playing with fire.

My problem with this is the negative connotation, or at least my assumption of said connotation. "Playing with fire" is "bad". I'm not sure what McD should be doing different (differently?) with regards to the Orton/Tebow situation. Orton is clearly the best option to start and play and he is doing so. If anything I'd argue that Tebow should be used more, not less, so to the extent utilizing Tebow is "playing with fire" I'd advocate more of it.

TailgateNut
10-19-2010, 09:40 AM
He just had a HUGE 3rd and 11 run for 13 yards on the final field goal drive which should have been the game winning drive Sunday. Then he gets the ball back with a minute to go and needing a TD and all he does is go 3-4 for 40 yards before the center craps the bed on him.

2009 vs. Cincy, NE, Dallas, etc. All game changing plays with him at QB. He brought us back to win I think 4 games when we were losing in the 4th quarter last year.

The guy doesn't choke late in games like others do. He really seems to shine when the pressure is on.

It's as if people are blind when it comes to Ortons' performance. The guy's a winner who isn't as mistake prone as Jaybee was. He is a dedicated professional who doesn't bitch and moan because the team brought in competition for his spot.

A no nonsense player I respect. Tebow hasn't earned that, and Quinn, IMO is a big ?mark, in many ways.

broncocalijohn
10-19-2010, 09:44 AM
I think Jake's days became numbered after his performance in the AFCC. Shanny came to believe he would never win a SB with jake so he moved up and got Cutler...... who might never get to the playoffs let alone win one.

Had to add the thought of the year.

Ray Finkle
10-19-2010, 10:13 AM
He just had a HUGE 3rd and 11 run for 13 yards on the final field goal drive which should have been the game winning drive Sunday. Then he gets the ball back with a minute to go and needing a TD and all he does is go 3-4 for 40 yards before the center craps the bed on him.

2009 vs. Cincy, NE, Dallas, etc. All game changing plays with him at QB. He brought us back to win I think 4 games when we were losing in the 4th quarter last year.

The guy doesn't choke late in games like others do. He really seems to shine when the pressure is on.

I'll give you the drives against Dallas and NE but Cincy was a fluke play. He stunk when the game counted (red zone) against Jack and Indy.

Jay3
10-19-2010, 10:29 AM
A no nonsense player I respect. Tebow hasn't earned that, and Quinn, IMO is a big ?mark, in many ways.

Not flaming or trying to be snarky, but I think the question about Quinn has been answered.

Tebow, on the other hand, is new to everything. And there's a case to be made about getting him in more and more, to allow the offense to morph into the direction of his strengths. Plus, he's the kind of player who will get better from game experience, because he's such an instinctively good football player.

Not saying Orton should be pulled, but this is a situation, I think where it's good to get some playing time for the #2 quarterback.

Not every #2 quarterback has anything to offer that the first stringer does. The Broncos have the luxury of getting their rookie some live snaps AND getting something out of it, to boot.

But yes, the OP was right no. Tebow instills a feeling of excitement that will be hard to bottle back up once you let it out.

Right now, it's easy. Orton will have some major stinker games ahead (as all quarterbacks do). And Tebow will throw the ball, and might do well (who knows, there's some luck involved in how your first appearances go).

Only winning will tamp it down. If it looks at all like the Broncos are out of it, there will be a clamor from the hoi palloi. For their "crack fix."

Dagmar
10-19-2010, 12:35 PM
Someone in the office just mentioned "Orton getting dinged against the Raiders in the first half and having Tebow go in could be a momentous moment for the franchise". I wanted to smack his head off the photocopier.

jhns
10-19-2010, 12:48 PM
Someone in the office just mentioned "Orton getting dinged against the Raiders in the first half and having Tebow go in could be a momentous moment for the franchise". I wanted to smack his head off the photocopier.

You work with smart people. Tebow is much better in the red zone so far and can't be much worse at the end of games. It would be much better for this team even if we don't drive as much but can take advantage of the times we do get down the field. We REALLLY need to find a QB with the Elway type magic. A guy that can score on their last drive when we need it, something we are missing now. Maybe Tebow has "it".

That all said, I would rather he just takes the spot. I don't hope for injuries.

Taco John
10-19-2010, 12:53 PM
Someone in the office just mentioned "Orton getting dinged against the Raiders in the first half and having Tebow go in could be a momentous moment for the franchise". I wanted to smack his head off the photocopier.



See this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about in this thread. A lot of people are trying to make this a thread about "Tebow didn't do anything special," but that's beside the point. The thread is really about the fans, their reaction to him, and their pateince.

broncocalijohn
10-19-2010, 12:58 PM
You work with smart people. Tebow is much better in the red zone so far and can't be much worse at the end of games. It would be much better for this team even if we don't drive as much but can take advantage of the times we do get down the field. We REALLLY need to find a QB with the Elway type magic. A guy that can score on their last drive when we need it, something we are missing now. Maybe Tebow has "it".

That all said, I would rather he just takes the spot. I don't hope for injuries.

You must work as a mail delivery guy in Dagmar's office. Horrible post. Where is this great proof that Tebow is better in the red zone? He has run the ball once for the TD but has not yet even attempted a pass. We dont know what he will bring us in the red zone compared to Orton. I want Tebow on that goal line but to come up with your conclusion is rediculous. Hell, give me Orton and Tebow in the backfield. He has been in on plays and not drives. Orton was leading us down the field until a horrible snap stopped it. Jizz, you are pretty much dumb. As they say in Alabama, "really, really dumb!"

Beantown Bronco
10-19-2010, 01:04 PM
See this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about in this thread. A lot of people are trying to make this a thread about "Tebow didn't do anything special," but that's beside the point. The thread is really about the fans, their reaction to him, and their pateince.

But, in reality, this goes for every city. People like to think Denver is the only tough town on QBs but it's not. The backup QB is almost always "everyone's favorite guy" when the starter or team struggles. Hell, look at San Fran. People were calling for Bono to become the starter over freaking Steve Young when he had a good game or two. New England? People were calling for Michael Bishop over Tom Brady early in his career after one or two bad games. McNabb was on the hot seat even when he performed really well.

This happens everywhere. There are MAYBE two or three safe guys right now. Manning and Brees are probably it. Everyone else? They'll be hearing it big time if they go into any kind of multi-game funk.

jhns
10-19-2010, 01:09 PM
You must work as a mail delivery guy in Dagmar's office. Horrible post. Where is this great proof that Tebow is better in the red zone? He has run the ball once for the TD but has not yet even attempted a pass. We dont know what he will bring us in the red zone compared to Orton. I want Tebow on that goal line but to come up with your conclusion is rediculous. Hell, give me Orton and Tebow in the backfield. He has been in on plays and not drives. Orton was leading us down the field until a horrible snap stopped it. Jizz, you are pretty much dumb. As they say in Alabama, "really, really dumb!"

Tebow is %100 in the red zone so far. I'm not saying he is better than Orton, I'm saying I would like to give him the chance to see if he is.

Also, there is always an excuse for Orton. The simple fact is that he has not been good on 3rd downs, in the red zone, or when needed most late in games for his entire NFL career. There are very few games that counter these trends. So again, I wouldn't mind giving a guy like Tebow a chance to see if he has the clutch factor that Orton is lacking so far.

Dagmar
10-19-2010, 01:21 PM
See this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about in this thread. A lot of people are trying to make this a thread about "Tebow didn't do anything special," but that's beside the point. The thread is really about the fans, their reaction to him, and their pateince.

Exactly. We should all have expected this. Tebow is seen as the future of the franchise and people are ALWAYS impatient for the future to start, in every walk of life. Even if Tebow turns into a Manning esque legend, he will have hiccups to start.

From living and working in Denver and going to two games this year, a lot of fans see Orton as a journeyman and Tebow as the hard working exciting future. Basically fans see a ceiling for Orton whereas Tebows is much higher.

To the point of the thread, if Josh puts Tebow out there and he does something spectacular the calls will be deafening.

That's the impression I have been getting from fans here, but there remains a lot of affection for Orton too because he has done so much better than was expected.

baja
10-19-2010, 01:33 PM
See this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about in this thread. A lot of people are trying to make this a thread about "Tebow didn't do anything special," but that's beside the point. The thread is really about the fans, their reaction to him, and their pateince.

It's actually a good thread idea TJ. Unfortunately much of your current cliental will be unable to grasp the concept. jhins, punisher and go_bronco come to mind.

Popps
10-19-2010, 01:36 PM
I will say this, if and when Tebow gets a chance... he'll get a lot longer leash from the fans than Orton will because of his background.

Jay Cutler led the league in INTs and you had people still defending him because he had a "rocket arm."

Most fans are real suckers for non-pertinent information. Orton doesn't LOOK like a top tier NFL QB, so your average fan assumes he must not be one. Tebow looks like a video game football player, and excelled in college... so he'll get the benefit of the doubt when he does finally start.

I love both players, by the way... but obviously Orton is a top tier QB right now and you just don't futz with that. McDaniels isn't playing with fire at all, because he's got conviction to do what he knows is correct.

Jay3
10-19-2010, 01:42 PM
Most fans are real suckers for non-pertinent information. Orton doesn't LOOK like a top tier NFL QB, so your average fan assumes he must not be one. Tebow looks like a video game football player, and excelled in college... so he'll get the benefit of the doubt when he does finally start.

I'm not so sure . . . Tebow might get a long leash from loyal fans, but the outcry from the media, the pundits, and Broncos detractors will be loud and early.

If he struggles at all, there would be deafening "I told you so's!" from many corners. If he does well, McD and his "system" will get the credit.

I've always believe that nothing short of a Super Bowl will silence all the people harping about Tebow. I've never seen a player so polarizing, one where people laser focus in on his every flaw.

baja
10-19-2010, 01:44 PM
See this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about in this thread. A lot of people are trying to make this a thread about "Tebow didn't do anything special," but that's beside the point. The thread is really about the fans, their reaction to him, and their patience.

On the thread itself;
I think you are right. Tebow is a special person and likely a special NFL player so as soon as Orton stumbles even slightly the average fan will be screaming for Tebow.

I like the way Josh is anticipating this issue. In yesterdays presser he was asked if Tebow scoring would boost his confidence Josh answered by saying tim will help the team in certain situations but with Orton playing so well he would be considerate of the rhythm that Kyle had going when considering rather to play Tebow. He also said they had plays drawn up for Tebow in other games but because of this and other considerations the did not call them.

Josh makes a point to praise Kyle when ever he is asked about Tebow I think this is a very smart thing to do, way beyond his years.

It shows Josh has been around successful coaches all his life and the experience was not wasted on him

chex
10-19-2010, 02:12 PM
This whole Tebow talk reminds me of the move Major League, when Cerrano is crushing fastballs, and the manager asks why no one else picked up on this guy, then the next pitch is a curveball, and Cerrano flails aimlessly.

Right now, Tebow is the curveball. Any success he will have this year is predicated on the 'unknown' since the packages involving him are all new. Then, after seeing it a few times, teams will learn to adjust and recognize what's going on, and be able to gameplan better for his appearances. Then he will become the fastball, and will have to rely on more than just the element of the unknown, which will be taken away. He'll have to will his team up and down the field, which is alot different than being asked to take it five yards to the house.

Cito Pelon
10-19-2010, 04:23 PM
He just had a HUGE 3rd and 11 run for 13 yards on the final field goal drive which should have been the game winning drive Sunday. Then he gets the ball back with a minute to go and needing a TD and all he does is go 3-4 for 40 yards before the center craps the bed on him.

2009 vs. Cincy, NE, Dallas, etc. All game changing plays with him at QB. He brought us back to win I think 4 games when we were losing in the 4th quarter last year.

The guy doesn't choke late in games like others do. He really seems to shine when the pressure is on.

Some people have short memories. I'm fine with Orton, but some people are just naturally critical of everything, I guess. If it ain't perfect, they gotta try to fix it.

Hence the premise of this thread, I guess. TJ is saying I gather that if Orton isn't Tarkenton, Bradshaw, Elway, Favre, Vick, Unitas, Montana, and Griese all rolled into one, then there will be fan pressure to bring in the Next Level.

Cito Pelon
10-19-2010, 04:42 PM
Fair enough, but what happens if/when he does start? That novelty, edge, or whatever you want to call it, will dissipate very quickly once his presence isn't a surprise anymore. His calling card right now is to come in and shake things up a bit, but that's only effective when it's for a few plays a game. The league has been gameplanning for Michael Vick for how many years now, and Tebow is nowhere near the runner Vick is.

If you're excited about his goalline abilities, then maybe we should campaign to put him in as a RB, but I don't know too many rational fans that will call for Tebow to start no matter what he does, especially when Orton is the one thing keeping us afloat so far. Tebow running up the middle, or running the edge doesn't make me long for him to be our starter. Sorry, I just don't see what it is you're gushing over.

Key phrase. Of course you know there will be plenty of irrational fans that will call for Tebow.

Popps
10-19-2010, 04:46 PM
I'm not so sure . . . Tebow might get a long leash from loyal fans, but the outcry from the media, the pundits, and Broncos detractors will be loud and early.

If he struggles at all, there would be deafening "I told you so's!" from many corners. If he does well, McD and his "system" will get the credit.

I've always believe that nothing short of a Super Bowl will silence all the people harping about Tebow. I've never seen a player so polarizing, one where people laser focus in on his every flaw.

Yea, you do have a point. There were enough writers and "experts" out there saying he'd never be an NFL QB that I'm sure they'd be looking for him to fail.

Still, with the fans, I'd expect more patience than Orton will get if he has a bad game or two.

Jay3
10-19-2010, 05:09 PM
This whole Tebow talk reminds me of the move Major League, when Cerrano is crushing fastballs, and the manager asks why no one else picked up on this guy, then the next pitch is a curveball, and Cerrano flails aimlessly.

Right now, Tebow is the curveball. Any success he will have this year is predicated on the 'unknown' since the packages involving him are all new. Then, after seeing it a few times, teams will learn to adjust and recognize what's going on, and be able to gameplan better for his appearances. Then he will become the fastball, and will have to rely on more than just the element of the unknown, which will be taken away. He'll have to will his team up and down the field, which is alot different than being asked to take it five yards to the house.

You're exactly right, you know.

And those of us that are highest on Tebow -- (I admit, he's my favorite player of anything, all time, and I'm 41. I'm a Bronco now because of him, though I wouldn't have been a fan if another team had picked him) -- are high on him precisely because we see a player without "holes" in his swing. We feel (from living through this the first time, in college), that he starts with some amazing special talents, and then progresses to beating you over the head in every way.

Everything has kind of reverted to talking about his running ability, his work ethic, his passion, etc. Because everybody has hit the "reset" button. This is the NFL, not college.

But I truly believe he will excel at each new thing he is called upon to do.

TailgateNut
10-19-2010, 05:27 PM
Key phrase. Of course you know there ARE plenty of irrational fans that ARE callING for Tebow.

There's the reality. You have the ones who just became "Bronco Fans" in April and you have the ones who believe all the hype and would rather double down and loose everything because they assume that his college success will naturally follow him in the NFL without needing to be developed and then you have the jhns's of the football world.

TailgateNut
10-19-2010, 05:29 PM
You're exactly right, you know.

And those of us that are highest on Tebow -- (I admit, he's my favorite player of anything, all time, and I'm 41. I'm a Bronco now because of him, though I wouldn't have been a fan if another team had picked him) -- are high on him precisely because we see a player without "holes" in his swing. We feel (from living through this the first time, in college), that he starts with some amazing special talents, and then progresses to beating you over the head in every way.

Everything has kind of reverted to talking about his running ability, his work ethic, his passion, etc. Because everybody has hit the "reset" button. This is the NFL, not college.

But I truly believe he will excel at each new thing he is called upon to do.

No, you're a Tebownite. A "bronco (fan)" would want what's best for the team, and wouldn't want to hang their season on a rook when the vet is doing the job.

Jay3
10-19-2010, 05:35 PM
No, you're a Tebownite. A "bronco (fan)" would want what's best for the team, and wouldn't want to hang their season on a rook when the vet is doing the job.

You think you're the boss of the whole world but you're not.

baja
10-19-2010, 05:37 PM
There's the reality. You have the ones who just became "Bronco Fans" in April and you have the ones who believe all the hype and would rather double down and loose everything because they assume that his college success will naturally follow him in the NFL without needing to be developed and then you have the jhns's of the football world.

I just hope Orton is wired differently than Plummer.

I think he is showing he definitely is plus he has a coach that believes in him he'll be good for the season anyway.

WolfpackGuy
10-19-2010, 05:40 PM
Orton will be happy if he gets a couple passes his way.

I would love to see it just for the pure comedy of him out in space.

Jay3
10-19-2010, 05:42 PM
Orton will be happy if he gets a couple passes his way.

I would love to see it just for the pure comedy of him out in space.

Then Tebow gets over there and blocks for him.

"Come on, boy! Yur gonna run this thing!!!"

Popps
10-19-2010, 06:25 PM
Orton has wheels, plain and simple. He's the best running QB we've had since Brister.

broncosteven
10-19-2010, 06:49 PM
Orton will be happy if he gets a couple passes his way.

I would love to see it just for the pure comedy of him out in space.

Out in space he makes dudes sell out and miss. It would be just as much fun to see Orton catch a pass as Jim Turner but in a race my money would be on Turner.

BlaK-Argentina
10-19-2010, 07:02 PM
Am I the only one here that loves what Orton brings and doesn't give a damn about what Tebow may or may not give to the QB position?

TailgateNut
10-19-2010, 07:23 PM
You think you're the boss of the whole world but you're not.

Que'? :spit:


You must be one of those clowns in the stadium who was screaming "Tebow.....TEBOW....TEEEBOW" last sunday when he was standing on the sideline.:spit:

TailgateNut
10-19-2010, 07:26 PM
I just hope Orton is wired differently than Plummer.

I think he is showing he definitely is plus he has a coach that believes in him he'll be good for the season anyway.


If the IDIOTS keep ignoring what he's done, and keep wailing for the savior he might give them the one finger salute just like Jay. I'd f-ing lose it, because IMO they deserve the message it sends.

TailgateNut
10-19-2010, 07:27 PM
Am I the only one here that loves what Orton brings and doesn't give a damn about what Tebow may or may not give to the QB position?

Nope!

Drek
10-19-2010, 07:37 PM
See this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about in this thread. A lot of people are trying to make this a thread about "Tebow didn't do anything special," but that's beside the point. The thread is really about the fans, their reaction to him, and their pateince.

The fans reaction and patience are immaterial though.

I mean, you're talking about the head coach who traded Cutler and the very next off-season traded Marshall. He's obviously shown very little concern for the opinions of fans.

Bowlen also won't give a crap because no matter how much those fans bitch they'll still show up hoping and praying for a Tebow sighting. To be "at the game when Tebow took over" will be the Bronco fan equivalent as a hipster going to the first (or last) Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien.

Florida_Bronco
10-19-2010, 07:53 PM
The fans reaction and patience are immaterial though.

I mean, you're talking about the head coach who traded Cutler and the very next off-season traded Marshall. He's obviously shown very little concern for the opinions of fans.

Bowlen also won't give a crap because no matter how much those fans b**** they'll still show up hoping and praying for a Tebow sighting. To be "at the game when Tebow took over" will be the Bronco fan equivalent as a hipster going to the first (or last) Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien.

That's what I've been saying. No one in the organization is going to give a **** what the fans think. As long as fans are in the stands anyways.

Cito Pelon
10-19-2010, 08:02 PM
Out in space he makes dudes sell out and miss. It would be just as much fun to see Orton catch a pass as Jim Turner but in a race my money would be on Turner.

Ah, save your sniveling til the season is over. Jeez I'm getting sick and tired of you. Your "Knowgain" junior-high girly stuff is old.

Cito Pelon
10-19-2010, 08:07 PM
Am I the only one here that loves what Orton brings and doesn't give a damn about what Tebow may or may not give to the QB position?

Nope.

BigPlayShay
10-19-2010, 09:33 PM
Has anyone added the Bowlen is out of cash angle yet? Tebow has only been used in games in A) His hometown and B) In the only game where the majority of the nation is watching us and we just happen to be in our alternate Jerseys? :stirstir:

lostknight
10-19-2010, 10:19 PM
Orton has wheels, plain and simple. He's the best running QB we've had since Brister.

You owe me a new keyboard for all of the Pepsi I just snorted out over it ;-)

ZachKC
10-19-2010, 10:25 PM
You think you're the boss of the whole world but you're not.

Are you sure you are 41?

broncocalijohn
10-19-2010, 10:37 PM
Has anyone added the Bowlen is out of cash angle yet? Tebow has only been used in games in A) His hometown and B) In the only game where the majority of the nation is watching us and we just happen to be in our alternate Jerseys? :stirstir:

McGaffney in the War forum says welcome to the conspiracy club.

errand
10-20-2010, 05:18 PM
Orton has wheels, plain and simple. He's the best running QB we've had since Brister.

...Jake could hold his own in the scrambling department.

Remember Brister's 30 yard run vs. chiefs in '98?

errand
10-20-2010, 05:22 PM
Am I the only one here that loves what Orton brings and doesn't give a damn about what Tebow may or may not give to the QB position?

I agree with you....who's to say Orton doesn't turn out to be a very good QB for us into the next decade, and Tebow is sent packing for draft picks or converted into that TE or RB everyone wants to turn him into?

Point is Orton should have earned more respect than he's gotten on this board.....he's 10-11 as our starter, which needs to improve, but his leadership skills are out of this world compared to the guy who preceeded him.

epicSocialism4tw
10-20-2010, 05:40 PM
I agree with you....who's to say Orton doesn't turn out to be a very good QB for us into the next decade, and Tebow is sent packing for draft picks or converted into that TE or RB everyone wants to turn him into?

Point is Orton should have earned more respect than he's gotten on this board.....he's 10-11 as our starter, which needs to improve, but his leadership skills are out of this world compared to the guy who preceeded him.

Orton will begin to silence the doubters when he begins leading the Broncos to wins. When the culture changes from mediocrity to excellence. Thats what people want. People want the Broncos to win. Moreso than they want to watch a guy pile up yards in losses.

We're at the same point we've been at with every QB since Elway. They do some nice things, but they dont win you the games. The great ones win you the games. They dictate the flow of the game. Tim Tebow excites people because he has made it apparent that he'll run through brick walls to win games.

Popps
10-20-2010, 05:44 PM
Orton has wheels, plain and simple. He's the best running QB we've had since Brister.

Umm... this post was a joke, folks.

C'mon.

:thanku:

strafen
10-20-2010, 05:48 PM
See this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about in this thread. A lot of people are trying to make this a thread about "Tebow didn't do anything special," but that's beside the point. The thread is really about the fans, their reaction to him, and their pateince.

I want to see Tebow play, like now!
This kid has it all that I feel his learning curve will be a short one.

Nothing against Orton, but I've already knew what we were getting in him.
So far, I've been right.
Really, how many here think he's a hopeful longterm QB that can make us a serious contender?
We're 2-4 with Orton, and I still feel that Orton could've had us at 4-2 at least, had he been the QB I think he should be, but he's not.
Twice at least he had the chance to make a serious statement late in a couple of games this season. That would've gone well with his current stats.

Now for Tebow, I think he's ready to roll. Tebow gets a chance last Sunday to play, and he scores a TD in a decisive manner with fire in his eyes.

That's what we need. I truly believe our offense will be unstoppable with Tebow running the show.
Heck, I'll become an instant McDaniels supporter if he puts Tebow in for the rest of the season. We WILL be a different team...

Popps
10-20-2010, 05:54 PM
I want to see Tebow play, like now!
This kid has it all that I feel his learning curve will be a short one.

Nothing against Orton, but I've already knew what we were getting in him.
So far, I've been right.
Really, how many here think he's a hopeful longterm QB that can make us a serious contender?
We're 2-4 with Orton, and I still feel that Orton could've had us at 4-2 at least, had he been the QB I think he should be, but he's not..

This has to be the worst post of the official football season.

How can someone look at a situation and see it this incorrectly.


Actually, this post represents the point I've been making pretty well. Your average fan just has no clue what he's looking at, and will try to run Orton out of town the first time he has a bad game.

strafen
10-20-2010, 06:00 PM
I agree with you....who's to say Orton doesn't turn out to be a very good QB for us into the next decade, and Tebow is sent packing for draft picks or converted into that TE or RB everyone wants to turn him into?

Point is Orton should have earned more respect than he's gotten on this board.....he's 10-11 as our starter, which needs to improve, but his leadership skills are out of this world compared to the guy who preceeded him.

Come on man.
What you've seen in Orton is it. No more, no less.
The guy lacks fire and tenacity to be a top tier QB in my eyes.
In a QB friendly system he has been able to pad his stats nicely, but that's it.
I'm yet to see a guy I feel comfortable with that can lead us from behind late in 4th qtrs. He's had a couple of chances this season to shine, and he didn't get it done.
I'm not drawing comparisons to anyone. I just feel he's not it...

Whenever -if- Orton achieves that, he will get his due respect, not only from members of this board but nationally as well.

strafen
10-20-2010, 06:08 PM
This has to be the worst post of the official football season.

How can someone look at a situation and see it this incorrectly.


Actually, this post represents the point I've been making pretty well. Your average fan just has no clue what he's looking at, and will try to run Orton out of town the first time he has a bad game.So, you haven't seen enough in Orton to be able to tell one way or another if he is, or he's not who we want as our QB of the future?
Either he is or he's not. To me he's not.
If we go 2-5 Mcdaniels will be contemplating making the change.
We've got some great receivers right now. Too good for Orton.
I feel Tebow surrounded by those same receivers will elevate not only his play but the play of those around him.

Look, we can debate all day long on this one.
This is how I feel, this is my opinion, if that makes me an average fan without a clue, I'll take it every time.

There's only one way to find out. We shall see in the course of the season.
So far you couldn't tell me I'm wrong more than I could tell you, you're right.

Jay3
10-20-2010, 06:11 PM
I'm with strafen. Come drink deeply of the Tebow Kool-Aid!

baja
10-20-2010, 06:50 PM
I'm with strafen. Come drink deeply of the Tebow Kool-Aid!

So is this view of your's going to grow to a deafening roar over the next few weeks.

Jay3
10-20-2010, 07:03 PM
So is this view of your's going to grow to a deafening roar over the next few weeks.

It depends -- I think the point of the OP is that it could turn out that way.

If Orton's play goes south, or if Tebow continues to come in and good things happen, the clamor will grow.

Most significantly of all, the wins and losses. If the Broncos win, there's more a tendency to stay with the status quo.

I'm a Tebow fan, and even I would like to see Tebow getting to have a consequential contribution to a team in the playoff hunt. So I'd have a hard time advocating to start him if McD felt Orton was still the best option to win now.

But seriously . . . .here's the test for what Taco was pointing to: do you ever find yourself (when the Broncos have the ball and are lining up for the snap) scanning the 11 players quickly to see if one of the jerseys says 15? That's Tebow in a nutshell, right there.

Dagmar
10-20-2010, 07:10 PM
I'm with strafen. Come drink deeply of the Tebow Kool-Aid!

That should tell you everything.

strafen
10-20-2010, 07:12 PM
It depends -- I think the point of the OP is that it could turn out that way.

If Orton's play goes south, or if Tebow continues to come in and good things happen, the clamor will grow.

Most significantly of all, the wins and losses. If the Broncos win, there's more a tendency to stay with the status quo.
I'm a Tebow fan, and even I would like to see Tebow getting to have a consequential contribution to a team in the playoff hunt. So I'd have a hard time advocating to start him if McD felt Orton was still the best option to win now.

But seriously . . . .here's the test for what Taco was pointing to: do you ever find yourself (when the Broncos have the ball and are lining up for the snap) scanning the 11 players quickly to see if one of the jerseys says 15? That's Tebow in a nutshell, right there.And that will make Tebow a role player.
That's not what we want...

baja
10-20-2010, 07:15 PM
It depends -- I think the point of the OP is that it could turn out that way.

If Orton's play goes south, or if Tebow continues to come in and good things happen, the clamor will grow.

Most significantly of all, the wins and losses. If the Broncos win, there's more a tendency to stay with the status quo.

I'm a Tebow fan, and even I would like to see Tebow getting to have a consequential contribution to a team in the playoff hunt. So I'd have a hard time advocating to start him if McD felt Orton was still the best option to win now.

But seriously . . . .here's the test for what Taco was pointing to: do you ever find yourself (when the Broncos have the ball and are lining up for the snap) scanning the 11 players quickly to see if one of the jerseys says 15? That's Tebow in a nutshell, right there.

If you take a look at my adopted Bronco you will see I think very highly of Tim Tebow but in answer to your question I have to say I am enjoying the hell out of watching the metamorphous that is Kyle Orton play quarter back for the Denver Broncos.

strafen
10-20-2010, 07:24 PM
If you take a look at my adopted Bronco you will see I think very highly of Tim Tebow but in answer to your question I have to say I am enjoying the hell out of watching the metamorphous that is Kyle Orton play quarter back for the Denver Broncos.

That's fine and dandy. My position has not changed since the moment I've heard we were getting Orton.
Sure, the guy has shown improvement over last year, he knows the system better, and the long ball is good but not what I'd call accurate.
The only thing that still remains unchanged is that he doesn't have the spirit of a warrior.
He lacks fire, urgency and inspiration in his play. I want to see a come from behind victory pulled off in a dramatic fashion, just to know he can do it when we need him to pull off a win.
He's NOT that type of QB...

baja
10-20-2010, 07:56 PM
That's fine and dandy. My position has not changed since the moment I've heard we were getting Orton.
Sure, the guy has shown improvement over last year, he knows the system better, and the long ball is good but not what I'd call accurate.
The only thing that still remains unchanged is that he doesn't have the spirit of a warrior.
He lacks fire, urgency and inspiration in his play. I want to see a come from behind victory pulled off in a dramatic fashion, just to know he can do it when we need him to pull off a win.
He's NOT that type of QB...

I think your error is expecting too much too soon. Kyle has played 20 games as a Bronco in a new and very complex system with all the other parts learning the same complex system.


You like Cutler right? I'd say Orton's progress in much more evident that Cutler's. Give Orton a reasonable amount of games and while you are doing that monitor the progress. Last season you were calling Kyle a noodle arm, you cant say that this season. Is that not enough improvement to buy him another 10 games grace?

Archer81
10-20-2010, 08:03 PM
The only thing that still remains unchanged is that he doesn't have the spirit of a warrior.
He lacks fire, urgency and inspiration in his play. I want to see a come from behind victory pulled off in a dramatic fashion, just to know he can do it when we need him to pull off a win.
He's NOT that type of QB...


Do you write for Bleacherreport?

NE and Dallas were dramatic games. I suppose in the Dallas game Marshall threw the ball to himself though...


:Broncos:

broncogary
10-20-2010, 08:05 PM
Do you write for Bleacherreport?

NE and Dallas were dramatic games. I suppose in the Dallas game Marshall threw the ball to himself though...


:Broncos:

Marshall's a catcher, Orton's a pitcher. :thanku:

strafen
10-20-2010, 09:17 PM
I think your error is expecting too much too soon. Kyle has played 20 games as a Bronco in a new and very complex system with all the other parts learning the same complex system.


You like Cutler right? I'd say Orton's progress in much more evident that Cutler's. Give Orton a reasonable amount of games and while you are doing that monitor the progress. Last season you were calling Kyle a noodle arm, you cant say that this season. Is that not enough improvement to buy him another 10 games grace?I like Cutler, just to answer your question, but as I've mentioned earlier, I'm not drawing any comparisons here.
What I'm talking about is the combination of intangibles a player has that are considered part of his natural make-up.
The things you can't teach, but come out when his back is up against a wall. Like an adrenaline rush and the fear to lose that makes you play your best.

The progress you're talking about is actually refreshing to see the guy can actually fling the ball long, but again, hardly accurate, plus it's not Orton's game, however...

Orton is not the QB I want there when we need a long drive to pull the win in the 4th qtr.
He's good at playing with a lead, he won't lose the game for you and that's a huge plus, he can throw the ball out of bounce to avoid the sack, and play smart.
You can't play like that when you're behind in the score. You have to be decisive and determined...

baja
10-20-2010, 09:24 PM
I like Cutler, just to answer your question, but as I've mentioned earlier, I'm not drawing any comparisons here.
What I'm talking about is the combination of intangibles a player has that are considered part of his natural make-up.
The things you can't teach, but come out when his back is up against a wall. Like an adrenaline rush and the fear to lose that makes you play your best.

The progress you're talking about is actually refreshing to see the guy can actually fling the ball long, but again, hardly accurate, plus it's not Orton's game, however...

Orton is not the QB I want there when we need a long drive to pull the win in the 4th qtr.
He's good at playing with a lead, he won't lose the game for you and that's a huge plus, he can throw the ball out of bounce to avoid the sack, and play smart.
You can't play like that when you're behind in the score. You have to be decisive and determined...

He looked pretty poised last week in the last drive. He took the team 40 yards in 3 plays before the ball was snapped wide left and caused a turnover which is not on Orton. All those intangibles you talk about I saw in Orton on the last drive until Walton miss fired.

broncocalijohn
10-20-2010, 09:53 PM
I like Cutler, just to answer your question, but as I've mentioned earlier, I'm not drawing any comparisons here.Orton is not the QB I want there when we need a long drive to pull the win in the 4th qtr.
He's good at playing with a lead, he won't lose the game for you and that's a huge plus, he can throw the ball out of bounce to avoid the sack, and play smart.
You can't play like that when you're behind in the score. You have to be decisive and determined...

So you arent comparing him to Cutler, correct? I believe you because when you look at the last bolded statement, there is no way in hell you could be talking about the Frown Cannon.

Rock Chalk
10-21-2010, 04:31 AM
It depends -- I think the point of the OP is that it could turn out that way.

If Orton's play goes south, or if Tebow continues to come in and good things happen, the clamor will grow.

Most significantly of all, the wins and losses. If the Broncos win, there's more a tendency to stay with the status quo.

I'm a Tebow fan, and even I would like to see Tebow getting to have a consequential contribution to a team in the playoff hunt. So I'd have a hard time advocating to start him if McD felt Orton was still the best option to win now.

But seriously . . . .here's the test for what Taco was pointing to: do you ever find yourself (when the Broncos have the ball and are lining up for the snap) scanning the 11 players quickly to see if one of the jerseys says 15? That's Tebow in a nutshell, right there.

We are 0-2 in games Tebow has played in.

Im more for keeping Teblow on the bench.

Oh and the answer to your question at the end is no. I dont scan for Teblow, mostly because the will be sure and show him if he comes on but also because I dont give a **** about the backup QB at this point. IF we win this year its with Orton. As I mentioned, in games Teblow has played in, we are 0-2. Obviously having him in there isn't that big of an effect.

Jay3
10-21-2010, 07:53 AM
We are 0-2 in games Tebow has played in.

Im more for keeping Teblow on the bench.

Oh and the answer to your question at the end is no. I dont scan for Teblow, mostly because the will be sure and show him if he comes on but also because I dont give a **** about the backup QB at this point. IF we win this year its with Orton. As I mentioned, in games Teblow has played in, we are 0-2. Obviously having him in there isn't that big of an effect.

That's kind of lame reasoning, the 0-2 reasoning. Really? JAX?

It's not like it's "We're 0-2 in games Tebow has started this season."

If I were trying to evaluate a player, any player (RB, WR, LB, etc.), I'd look a little deeper than "We're 0-2 when he played."

If he played the whole game, then maybe I'd factor that in more.

oubronco
10-21-2010, 08:35 AM
Ah, save your sniveling til the season is over. Jeez I'm getting sick and tired of you. Your "Knowgain" junior-high girly stuff is old.

Totally agree

Rock Chalk
10-21-2010, 08:37 AM
That's kind of lame reasoning, the 0-2 reasoning. Really? JAX?

It's not like it's "We're 0-2 in games Tebow has started this season."

If I were trying to evaluate a player, any player (RB, WR, LB, etc.), I'd look a little deeper than "We're 0-2 when he played."

If he played the whole game, then maybe I'd factor that in more.

It's true though. Teblow is bad luck.

oubronco
10-21-2010, 08:41 AM
That should tell you everything.

If only he would follow his butt buddy out the door to never return

Beantown Bronco
10-21-2010, 08:46 AM
It's true though. Teblow is bad luck.

At least on par with this guy....if not worse.

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Archer81
10-21-2010, 08:53 AM
It's true though. Teblow is bad luck.

is that really necessary?


:Broncos: