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View Full Version : Ryan Harris or Zane Beadles


The MVPlaya
10-17-2010, 07:47 PM
Zane Beadles had a great game outside of 1 false start (in a crucial situation nonetheless)

However, who do you think we should start next week against the Raiders?

STBumpkin
10-17-2010, 07:56 PM
Harris didn't play well last week and Beadles was ok today. Harris was money last season so I don't know what to think. Looks like we have some decent depth at RT. The problem I think is at C. Can one of them play Center? I hate Walton. Every false start or holding call I assume is him.

Killericon
10-17-2010, 07:58 PM
Harris has proven more. Much, much more.

zdoor
10-17-2010, 07:59 PM
I thought they said something during the game about Harris still being injured.

The MVPlaya
10-17-2010, 08:03 PM
I thought they said something during the game about Harris still being injured.

They did, however it was just an assumption type thing more than anything official.

It's probably true though that he's still getting over his injury... the injury occurred 6 weeks ago though and I think it was an ankle sprain.

The MVPlaya
10-17-2010, 08:18 PM
Harris didn't play well last week and Beadles was ok today. Harris was money last season so I don't know what to think. Looks like we have some decent depth at RT. The problem I think is at C. Can one of them play Center? I hate Walton. Every false start or holding call I assume is him.

Hochstein is our back up center.

tsiguy96
10-17-2010, 08:24 PM
hochstein needs to be in at C. i think you may see that soon. beadles is playing good, i dont know if harris could be a LG however, would be cool if he could switch. having them both on the field is an upgrade over whats out there now.

STBumpkin
10-17-2010, 08:25 PM
Hochstein is our back up center.

He must be pretty crappy for Walton to still be playing after all the penalties he's earned.

The MVPlaya
10-17-2010, 08:26 PM
Center is a pretty tough position to learn as a rookie... being thrown into the fire as he has isn't an easy task and I know they're taking that into consideration.

enjolras
10-17-2010, 08:27 PM
hochstein needs to be in at C. i think you may see that soon. beadles is playing good, i dont know if harris could be a LG however, would be cool if he could switch. having them both on the field is an upgrade over whats out there now.

Hochstein can't even get slow down the guy in front of him, much less snap the ball. Moving the worst offensive lineman we have to center is a radically terrible idea.

Let Walton make his mistakes, at least he shows some sign of developing into a really solid player.

enjolras
10-17-2010, 08:28 PM
As for the original question: Harris all day every day. Beadles needs to be working into the starting lineup at Guard. For the love of god what do we have to do to get Hochstein off the damn field?

tsiguy96
10-17-2010, 08:29 PM
Hochstein can't even get slow down the guy in front of him, much less snap the ball. Moving the worst offensive lineman we have to center is a radically terrible idea.

Let Walton make his mistakes, at least he shows some sign of developing into a really solid player.

the worst lineman we have is currently PLAYING center.

brncs_fan
10-17-2010, 08:30 PM
As for the original question: Harris all day every day. Beadles needs to be working into the starting lineup at Guard. For the love of god what do we have to do to get Hochstein off the damn field?

:thumbsup:

manchambo
10-17-2010, 08:33 PM
My hope is that Harris comes back to form at RT and Beadles steps in at guard. If that happens next week, I'll be delighted.

cutthemdown
10-17-2010, 08:38 PM
Zane Beadles stinks. Dlineman toss him around like he's a bag of laundry.

cutthemdown
10-17-2010, 08:38 PM
And god the Center should be cut right now.

The MVPlaya
10-17-2010, 08:40 PM
Someone should check "cutthemdown"'s history.

Outside of being doom and gloom and a hater of the current Broncos regime... he really provides no substance to any of his points and just throws out outrageous statements.

I know you're old as ****, but come on.

TheProfessor
10-17-2010, 08:45 PM
Walton is definately having his struggles, but I also see some plays out of him. At this point he needs more time.

As for Beadles- Hmmm - To be honest, I'm not sure he has even practiced at the guard spot since game 2 of the preseason. At that time he looked terrible, but it was just the preseason. At this point, I would say his only spot is at RT... at least for 2010.

Rulon Velvet Jones
10-17-2010, 08:47 PM
Zane Beadles stinks. Dlineman toss him around like he's a bag of laundry.

What?

cutthemdown
10-17-2010, 08:54 PM
What?

He was late getting over on several blocks today where RB got dropped in the backfield. On running plays when ball is snapped the Center and the RT today were instantly dominated. They make a few blocks here and there but are consistently beaten.

Beadles problem is he looks like he is average in about ever way you can be. Kuper also has taken a huge step back this yr. Not sure if he's hurt, or if getting married and a new deal wasn't good for him on the field.

Many fans getting pissed at those of us who saw this coming. That's fine it will be over soon enough. Broncos will be out of the equation already if not for rest of the AFC West being a friggin laughingstock as well.

SD could have ruled for another couple years but I guess they joined the scrap heap instead.

The big problem is that Broncos still need 2 new starters on the oline, a new DT, new DE, new inside linebacking, some safety's outside of Dawk who can play, and a new RB and a good TE who can beat linebackers in 1-1 coverage.

Only thing Broncos have are a couple good corners, OLB, WR, and a decent QB. Everything else is crap.

driver
10-18-2010, 02:30 AM
As for the original question: Harris all day every day. Beadles needs to be working into the starting lineup at Guard. For the love of god what do we have to do to get Hochstein off the damn field?


Poke him with a sharp stick, might break that NE lip lock he has on McD.:thumbsup:

Broncos_OTM
10-18-2010, 04:54 AM
Harris didn't play well last week and Beadles was ok today. Harris was money last season so I don't know what to think. Looks like we have some decent depth at RT. The problem I think is at C. Can one of them play Center? I hate Walton. Every false start or holding call I assume is him.

The scheme changed this year. Harris was extremely effective in the ZBS. Not so much in the offense we run today.. This scheme expects him to keep and maintain blocks. while the ZBS didnt really need for him to lock onto players it does in thsi scheme

Broncos_OTM
10-18-2010, 04:57 AM
whats interesting is we have Beyers who is a center who at one point was considered a first round prospect. i wonder how he is looking on the PS

TonyR
10-18-2010, 05:51 AM
Many fans getting pissed at those of us who saw this coming.

How did anyone see our OL falling apart coming? Nobody expected our run blocking to be this bad, and if you can show some old posts showing different I'll be impressed.

dsmoot
10-18-2010, 05:57 AM
The scheme changed this year. Harris was extremely effective in the ZBS. Not so much in the offense we run today.. This scheme expects him to keep and maintain blocks. while the ZBS didnt really need for him to lock onto players it does in thsi scheme

Harris was very effective the first six games last year before he was injured. Oh yes, that was NOT the ZBS.

dsmoot
10-18-2010, 06:04 AM
How did anyone see our OL falling apart coming? Nobody expected our run blocking to be this bad, and if you can show some old posts showing different I'll be impressed.

If you go back to 2005 and 2006 posts, we were suffering red zone running problems then, even though we still did well inside the 20's. There were plenty of posts talking about the ineffectiveness we were having then. We were talking about Hamilton then and how much longer Nalen was going to be around, how bad George Foster was, how we were terrible drafting OL and developing them .... We now are trying a different scheme without all the pieces in place. As far as the run blocking issues, this train has been coming for a long time. Last year after Harris went down, the train arrived at the station. Then we drafted the kids, Clady got hurt, Kuper got hurt, Harris got rolled up on. No cohesion in training camp and early season. Then we started cycling every CASTOFF free agent OL as a potential starter. Is this ugly enough for you.

It really doesn't take much in the way of observation skills to see it. When we dumped Wiegmann and Hamilton as we should have, then drafted the kids this year, you knew there would be growing pains unless we hit on more Cladys. If we could have transitioned into this season with a good running game, it would have been the biggest accomplishment of this coaching staff since they arrived. If we had stayed with the old scheme with the old pieces, the results would have been the same. Our talent is simply not there to match up physically with the elite defenses, yet.

ColoradoDarin
10-18-2010, 06:22 AM
If you go back to 2005 and 2006 posts, we were suffering red zone running problems then, even though we still did well inside the 20's. There were plenty of posts talking about the ineffectiveness we were having then. We were talking about Hamilton then and how much longer Nalen was going to be around, how bad George Foster was, how we were terrible drafting OL and developing them .... We now are trying a different scheme without all the pieces in place. As far as the run blocking issues, this train has been coming for a long time. Last year after Harris went down, the train arrived at the station. Then we drafted the kids, Clady got hurt, Kuper got hurt, Harris got rolled up on. No cohesion in training camp and early season. Then we started cycling every CASTOFF free agent OL as a potential starter. Is this ugly enough for you.

It really doesn't take much in the way of observation skills to see it. When we dumped Wiegmann and Hamilton as we should have, then drafted the kids this year, you knew there would be growing pains unless we hit on more Cladys. If we could have transitioned into this season with a good running game, it would have been the biggest accomplishment of this coaching staff since they arrived. If we had stayed with the old scheme with the old pieces, the results would have been the same. Our talent is simply not there to match up physically with the elite defenses, yet.

This. Rep

Dedhed
10-18-2010, 06:27 AM
Harris has proven more. Much, much more.

Like an inability to stay healthy.

TonyR
10-18-2010, 06:56 AM
If you go back to 2005 and 2006 posts, we were suffering red zone running problems then...

Agree that we've had red zone and short yardages issues for a while now. But nobody predicted we'd have the complete inability to run the football we have this season. There was no reason to expect it based on last season. Red zone and short yardage issues are one thing, a complete inability to effectively run the football is another. And I don't recall anyone predicting this. If you can show me some examples of such predictions please do so.

Broncos_OTM
10-18-2010, 07:17 AM
Harris was very effective the first six games last year before he was injured. Oh yes, that was NOT the ZBS.


The scheme this year. The scheme last year are two completely differant Beasts. Coupled with the fact that Harris cannnot stay healthy. And when he has been healthy he was Demoted. Yeah Harris is not fit for this team. Like it or not hes gone.

LetsGoBroncos
10-18-2010, 07:41 AM
So is Harris hurt or not?

LRtagger
10-18-2010, 07:54 AM
Hochstein made some key blocks in the running game including the block that sprung Tebow's TD run. He's not the best lineman on the team, but he is definitely an upgrade over Daniels. We will be drafting a big and fast Guard in the 11 draft.

Dedhed
10-18-2010, 07:57 AM
We will be drafting a big and fast Guard in the 11 draft.
I think we'll be drafting a beast RT and moving Beadles inside permanently.

Br0nc0Buster
10-18-2010, 07:58 AM
Harris doesnt have a future with this team, hopefully Beadles is the guy at RT for us

we still need a LG and a C though even if Beadles pans out

Broncos_OTM
10-18-2010, 08:31 AM
I would be happy With Camini from Wisconsin in the Second to take over as RT

And Justin Boren in the 3rd.

JJ Watt at this point is my favorite prospect in this draft.

Popps
10-18-2010, 08:43 AM
He was late getting over on several blocks today where RB got dropped in the backfield. On running plays when ball is snapped the Center and the RT today were instantly dominated. They make a few blocks here and there but are consistently beaten.

Beadles problem is he looks like he is average in about ever way you can be. Kuper also has taken a huge step back this yr. Not sure if he's hurt, or if getting married and a new deal wasn't good for him on the field.

Many fans getting pissed at those of us who saw this coming. That's fine it will be over soon enough. Broncos will be out of the equation already if not for rest of the AFC West being a friggin laughingstock as well.

SD could have ruled for another couple years but I guess they joined the scrap heap instead.

The big problem is that Broncos still need 2 new starters on the oline, a new DT, new DE, new inside linebacking, some safety's outside of Dawk who can play, and a new RB and a good TE who can beat linebackers in 1-1 coverage.

Only thing Broncos have are a couple good corners, OLB, WR, and a decent QB. Everything else is crap.

You should have posted this in the feel-good thread.

~Crash~
10-18-2010, 09:21 AM
He must be pretty crappy for Walton to still be playing after all the penalties he's earned.

you sir are a putz.. I would tell you why but I think you should find out on your own:twokisses

~Crash~
10-18-2010, 09:25 AM
it is Scheme for the rest of you yutzs !TE coach not being ready for the NFL as a OL coach ...wow:welcome:

The Joker
10-18-2010, 09:28 AM
Harris doesnt have a future with this team, hopefully Beadles is the guy at RT for us

we still need a LG and a C though even if Beadles pans out

Walton will be fine in a year or two, he's been thrown into a woeful situation as a rookie.

~Crash~
10-18-2010, 09:31 AM
I think we'll be drafting a beast RT and moving Beadles inside permanently.

Pay attetion there is going to be a test . Stop drop acid Dedhed it is rather bad for you .:peace:

Garcia Bronco
10-18-2010, 09:32 AM
I vote Zane Harris

~Crash~
10-18-2010, 09:37 AM
We make a change with the Oline coach and now we have Problems with the same personnel that looked stable as a rock when they were on the field all together last year . now they all need to be replaced . come on I am tired of the Detroit Lions fan mentally . at some point Coaching does count .

Garcia Bronco
10-18-2010, 09:40 AM
We make a change with the Oline coach and now we have Problems with the same personnel that looked stable as a rock when they were on the field all together last year . now they all need to be replaced . come on I am tired of the Detroit Lions fan mentally . at some point Coaching does count .

I have to agree. The OC is awesome, but he needs to get his trenches striaght or he won't last.

~Crash~
10-18-2010, 09:44 AM
I have to agree. The OC is awesome, but he needs to get his trenches striaght or he won't last.

I think this coach will get it . but right now he is getting it handed to him . I hope he does get it soon .

Obushma
10-18-2010, 09:55 AM
He was late getting over on several blocks today where RB got dropped in the backfield. On running plays when ball is snapped the Center and the RT today were instantly dominated. They make a few blocks here and there but are consistently beaten.

Beadles problem is he looks like he is average in about ever way you can be.


The only play Beadles really got beat yesterday was on a d-line crash, and no RT in the NFL could have made that play. He had a penalty that hurt the team late in the 4th, that was a big mistake.

Honestly though, what do you expect from a Rookie who went through camp learning a playbook as a LG? Now he's moved over to RT (Which I believe is his natural position) and you expect him to dominate?

I'm sorry cutt, i'm going to have to call bull****, he was on 85% of his blocks for 3 seconds. I watched every play where the camera angle had a solid view of the O-line twice, and I can tell you, the problem is not Beadles.

Many fans getting pissed at those of us who saw this coming. That's fine it will be over soon enough. Broncos will be out of the equation already if not for rest of the AFC West being a friggin laughingstock as well.

SD could have ruled for another couple years but I guess they joined the scrap heap instead.

The big problem is that Broncos still need 2 new starters on the oline, a new DT, new DE, new inside linebacking, some safety's outside of Dawk who can play, and a new RB and a good TE who can beat linebackers in 1-1 coverage.

Only thing Broncos have are a couple good corners, OLB, WR, and a decent QB. Everything else is crap.

I'm not going to go chicken little yet, as this team showed vast improvement from the team we saw the week before, without Dawk or Ayers.

cutthemdown
10-18-2010, 10:59 AM
You kidding? Orton didn't complete 50% of his throws. The running game still stunk. What improvement?

Big deal so every once in awhile a teams offense isn't on fire vs Broncos. They still outscore at end of the game because we aren't physical. Broncos are a soft team.

Swedish Extrovert
10-18-2010, 11:44 AM
Are the Olsen twins still on this team?

dsmoot
10-18-2010, 11:46 AM
You kidding? Orton didn't complete 50% of his throws. The running game still stunk. What improvement?

Big deal so every once in awhile a teams offense isn't on fire vs Broncos. They still outscore at end of the game because we aren't physical. Broncos are a soft team.


I will simply define us as being soft in the trenches. Until our guys consistently beat their guys up front both offensively and defensively, we are soft. Until we make that transition, we will be dictated to by the opposition.

ScottXray
10-18-2010, 11:58 AM
If Harris is healthy then Beadles to LG would be fine. If Harris is NOT healthy then Beadles at RT is the way to go.

Unfortunately we still haven't had two weeks in a row with the same players at any position other than C and LT. Kuper has regressed. Walton is going through trial by fire and I think he will get it, and eventually be good, but he needs to start to perform.

Run game requires consistancy and we haven't had that luxury in any game this year. Still they did better running yesterday than they have all year. Still got stuffed a lot, but actually made positive yardage most plays. Not a lot of Yardage but positive most of the time.

It still looks like there is some kind of tell that other teams are picking up on, because they seem to KNOW what is going to happen and just go to run blitz a lot. Wish OUR coaches could find it.

dsmoot
10-18-2010, 12:22 PM
If Harris is healthy then Beadles to LG would be fine. If Harris is NOT healthy then Beadles at RT is the way to go.

Unfortunately we still haven't had two weeks in a row with the same players at any position other than C and LT. Kuper has regressed. Walton is going through trial by fire and I think he will get it, and eventually be good, but he needs to start to perform.

Run game requires consistancy and we haven't had that luxury in any game this year. Still they did better running yesterday than they have all year. Still got stuffed a lot, but actually made positive yardage most plays. Not a lot of Yardage but positive most of the time.

It still looks like there is some kind of tell that other teams are picking up on, because they seem to KNOW what is going to happen and just go to run blitz a lot. Wish OUR coaches could find it.


I am not really too worried about Walton yet. If I remember correctly, Tom Nalen did not start right out of the box. He had to beat out a vet in practice to get the starting role. Our new guys did not have that luxary. All things being equal, that is the best way a college OL can make the transition. Our rookies probably did not play 1 - 2 games a year against quality DL that would later make it in the NFL. The Clady's are by far the exception. Think about what we started the season out with a LT forced back into action probably too soon following a significant surgery, two draftees with no experience and an OL from another team that had not started an NFL game. Harris came back at the beginning of training camp ready to perform then he got hurt again.

No wonder we couldn't run the football in the redzone or anywhere else. Clady is struggling against speed on the outside when last year he would have had these guys for breakfast. At least Josh is trying to create some level of competition on who will play. We need these guys to get healed and the young guys need to step up and take (not being forced) the openings available at the other positions. Some of the guys we are being forced to play like Hochstien, Batiste and Daniels have not proven to be starting material at any point in their careers. These are second level stop gap players that you have to have but don't want to play.

elsid13
10-18-2010, 03:23 PM
Walton will be fine. The kid is coming from a spread offense where he never had to line up in pro style stance and into a very overly complex blocking scheme. There is going to be growing pain, like some of us talk about in the preseason. Beadles isn't going to be shifted inside, because it appears the staff has plans for him to be the RT of the future and this is first step in that process.

Ray Finkle
10-18-2010, 04:58 PM
Walton will be fine. The kid is coming from a spread offense where he never had to line up in pro style stance and into a very overly complex blocking scheme. There is going to be growing pain, like some of us talk about in the preseason. Beadles isn't going to be shifted inside, because it appears the staff has plans for him to be the RT of the future and this is first step in that process.

I agree....I just don't know how Harris fell apart so quickly. If Beadles is the RT of the future, is it worth floating Harris at the deadline for a 3rd?

Br0nc0Buster
10-18-2010, 05:45 PM
Walton will be fine in a year or two, he's been thrown into a woeful situation as a rookie.

perhaps he will but Josh preaches competition and right now Walton has none

need to get a vet in there next year to push him to either poop or get off the pot

ColoradoDarin
10-18-2010, 05:49 PM
perhaps he will but Josh preaches competition and right now Walton has none

need to get a vet in there next year to push him to either poop or get off the pot

Walton's competition for C is Hochstein. Which he is better than.

Br0nc0Buster
10-18-2010, 06:20 PM
Walton's competition for C is Hochstein. Which he is better than.

not anymore since Hochstein starts

Hochstein isnt good though, we need someone better in case Walton doesnt improve like he should

elsid13
10-18-2010, 06:28 PM
I agree....I just don't know how Harris fell apart so quickly. If Beadles is the RT of the future, is it worth floating Harris at the deadline for a 3rd?

A bad back and feet problems.

BMarsh615
10-18-2010, 06:34 PM
I agree....I just don't know how Harris fell apart so quickly. If Beadles is the RT of the future, is it worth floating Harris at the deadline for a 3rd?

I don't think anyone is going to give up much for Harris when they can just sign him when he becomes a free agent in March.

Dedhed
10-18-2010, 06:44 PM
Pay attetion there is going to be a test . Stop drop acid Dedhed it is rather bad for you .:peace:

Start using correct English, and I'll consider your advice.

Florida_Bronco
10-18-2010, 06:55 PM
Someone should check "cutthemdown"'s history.

Outside of being doom and gloom and a hater of the current Broncos regime... he really provides no substance to any of his points and just throws out outrageous statements.

I know you're old as ****, but come on.

You think he would have knocked that **** off when Kupesdad bitch slapped for all his misinformation.

The MVPlaya
10-18-2010, 06:58 PM
You think he would have knocked that **** off when Kupesdad b**** slapped for all his misinformation.

Did that actually happen in person?

Soul-Bronco
10-18-2010, 07:00 PM
might be wishful thinking, but can we plug harris into the LG position? seems like he could do better than old man hoch

~Crash~
10-18-2010, 07:43 PM
might be wishful thinking, but can we plug harris into the LG position? seems like he could do better than old man hoch

This is my guess as to what the coach might be up to .

Man-Goblin
10-18-2010, 08:33 PM
There is so much bull**** flying around in this thread I thought I was at the stock show.

Ryan Harris is an excellent zone tackle. Problem is, we don't know if he can be successful in this system because he hasn't demonstrated it. Hell, no one on the line has demonstrated they can be excellent in this system.

Maybe it's because Harris isn't healthy. Maybe it's because he can't do it. Maybe it's the system itself. Time will tell, but Beadles has been pretty damn good at his position relative to everyone else on the line.

PS. Walton hasn't been that bad and Orton should have been able to handle that errant snap.

Florida_Bronco
10-18-2010, 08:39 PM
Did that actually happen in person?

No, it happened here on the forums.

tsiguy96
10-18-2010, 09:03 PM
There is so much bull**** flying around in this thread I thought I was at the stock show.

Ryan Harris is an excellent zone tackle. Problem is, we don't know if he can be successful in this system because he hasn't demonstrated it. Hell, no one on the line has demonstrated they can be excellent in this system.

Maybe it's because Harris isn't healthy. Maybe it's because he can't do it. Maybe it's the system itself. Time will tell, but Beadles has been pretty damn good at his position relative to everyone else on the line.

PS. Walton hasn't been that bad and Orton should have been able to handle that errant snap.

football outsiders called walton the worst starting center in the NFL. routine allows pressures to orton, but no sacks yet oddly enough.

SoCalBronco
10-18-2010, 10:06 PM
Walton is doing about as well as can be reasonably expected. The guy came in here as a mid round pick and we're asking him to start at center and make the line calls in a complex offense....as a rookie. Even for rookie FIRST round picks, it is a difficult proposition to start at center and be successful. What's being asked and expected here is almost not physically possible. Walton's playing against guys 7-10 years older than him and that much more physically and mentally mature. Right now, he's somewhere between "somewhat below average" and "really struggling". That's about where he SHOULD be.

Big picture, people.

With regard to Harris...I'm also a bit alarmed at how much he's dropped off. Obviously, part of it has to do with ever lingering injury issues. I suspect another part with the scheme. While he's undoubtedly a quality tackle, he's also kind of tied to the ZBS more so than Clady is. Clady has the all around ability to dominate anywhere and anytime...Harris can too, but he really would be best in the ZBS, so he might not be completely highlighted by this scheme. I'd hate to lose him because he's a quality guy...borderline Pro Bowl in the right situation, but if he doesn't fit and is constantly dogged by injury issues, we may have to eventually move him. I'm not relishing that possibility, but I wouldn't hold it against the staff if they felt they had do given the entirety of the circumstances (assuming ofcourse...and this is a big assumption, that they could get good quality coming back to us...I obviously wouldn't be in favor of giving him away for free like we did with Alphonso...Harris is a good player, sometimes a great player, we better get something real nice back...webetter).

strafen
10-18-2010, 10:31 PM
Big picture, people.

With regard to Harris...I'm also a bit alarmed at how much he's dropped off. Obviously, part of it has to do with ever lingering injury issues. I suspect another part with the scheme. While he's undoubtedly a quality tackle, he's also kind of tied to the ZBS more so than Clady is. Clady has the all around ability to dominate anywhere and anytime...Harris can too, but he really would be best in the ZBS, so he might not be completely highlighted by this scheme. I'd hate to lose him because he's a quality guy...borderline Pro Bowl in the right situation, but if he doesn't fit and is constantly dogged by injury issues, we may have to eventually move him. I'm not relishing that possibility, but I wouldn't hold it against the staff if they felt they had do given the entirety of the circumstances (assuming ofcourse...and this is a big assumption, that they could get good quality coming back to us...I obviously wouldn't be in favor of giving him away for free like we did with Alphonso...Harris is a good player, sometimes a great player, we better get something real nice back...webetter).Having Harris played college in Notre Dame under Charles Weis I would think he'll be more adept at playing the PBS than he's at ZBS, no?

SoCalBronco
10-18-2010, 10:36 PM
Having Harris played college in Notre Dame under Charles Weis I would think he'll be more adept at playing the PBS than he's at ZBS, no?

That's an interesting point....although I'm not totally sure what Charlie Weis ran at Notre Dame...at least so far as the run game goes. I'm not sure its extremely similar to what we are doing now. It may be to an extent. One reason I feel that way is that Shanny likes to draft specifically for his scheme and looks for the athletic guys rather than the purely power guys, so I don't think he would have went for Harris unless he saw some good ZBS execution on film (again not saying that's all Weis did, obviously not, but at least somewhat) and some good system fit skills. Harris obviously must have shown that on college film and its clear he definitely showed a great talent for ZBS in Denver, previously.

Old Dude
10-19-2010, 07:59 AM
Sounds like Beadles has temporarily won the job.

http://thedenverdailynews.com/article.php?aID=10392

As for Walton ... well, he's made plenty of mistakes, but that's to be expected. Center is one of the toughest jobs to master and it's going to take some time.

Ray Finkle
10-19-2010, 08:02 AM
Walton is doing about as well as can be reasonably expected. The guy came in here as a mid round pick and we're asking him to start at center and make the line calls in a complex offense....as a rookie. Even for rookie FIRST round picks, it is a difficult proposition to start at center and be successful. What's being asked and expected here is almost not physically possible. Walton's playing against guys 7-10 years older than him and that much more physically and mentally mature. Right now, he's somewhere between "somewhat below average" and "really struggling". That's about where he SHOULD be.

Big picture, people.

With regard to Harris...I'm also a bit alarmed at how much he's dropped off. Obviously, part of it has to do with ever lingering injury issues. I suspect another part with the scheme. While he's undoubtedly a quality tackle, he's also kind of tied to the ZBS more so than Clady is. Clady has the all around ability to dominate anywhere and anytime...Harris can too, but he really would be best in the ZBS, so he might not be completely highlighted by this scheme. I'd hate to lose him because he's a quality guy...borderline Pro Bowl in the right situation, but if he doesn't fit and is constantly dogged by injury issues, we may have to eventually move him. I'm not relishing that possibility, but I wouldn't hold it against the staff if they felt they had do given the entirety of the circumstances (assuming ofcourse...and this is a big assumption, that they could get good quality coming back to us...I obviously wouldn't be in favor of giving him away for free like we did with Alphonso...Harris is a good player, sometimes a great player, we better get something real nice back...webetter).

2 recent good young centers Nick Mangold and Unger had up and down rookie seasons...

Obushma
10-19-2010, 10:29 AM
Sounds like Beadles has temporarily won the job.

http://thedenverdailynews.com/article.php?aID=10392

As for Walton ... well, he's made plenty of mistakes, but that's to be expected. Center is one of the toughest jobs to master and it's going to take some time.

Thanks for the link.

The 6-foot-4, 310 pound Beadles was drafted in the second round out of Utah by the Broncos to play guard. However, McDaniels also recently called him “a jack-of-all-trades” on the offensive line.

That's what he was at Utah, and he was the best at every position he played.

~Crash~
10-19-2010, 10:45 AM
There is so much bull**** flying around in this thread I thought I was at the stock show.

Ryan Harris is an excellent zone tackle. Problem is, we don't know if he can be successful in this system because he hasn't demonstrated it. Hell, no one on the line has demonstrated they can be excellent in this system.

Maybe it's because Harris isn't healthy. Maybe it's because he can't do it. Maybe it's the system itself. Time will tell, but Beadles has been pretty damn good at his position relative to everyone else on the line.

PS. Walton hasn't been that bad and Orton should have been able to handle that errant snap.

Then you do not count last year ?

~Crash~
10-19-2010, 10:49 AM
football outsiders called Walton the worst starting center in the NFL. routine allows pressures to Orton, but no sacks yet oddly enough.

Walton is a rookie . I hope he does pick it up because pressure up the middle is really bad . QB's are tought to step up . With Walton there is no step up . he will need to get the mean streak going at some point .

PRBronco
10-19-2010, 10:51 AM
A bad back and feet problems.

His back has been fine since it was operated on after his rookie season. "Feet problems" was a dislocated big toe after having it stepped on last season. Now he's obviously still recovering from having his knee/ankle rolled up on in the preseason. I can't comprehend why Ryan Harris is such a mystery to some people around here.

~Crash~
10-19-2010, 10:57 AM
Walton is doing about as well as can be reasonably expected. The guy came in here as a mid round pick and we're asking him to start at center and make the line calls in a complex offense....as a rookie. Even for rookie FIRST round picks, it is a difficult proposition to start at center and be successful. What's being asked and expected here is almost not physically possible. Walton's playing against guys 7-10 years older than him and that much more physically and mentally mature. Right now, he's somewhere between "somewhat below average" and "really struggling". That's about where he SHOULD be.

Big picture, people.

With regard to Harris...I'm also a bit alarmed at how much he's dropped off. Obviously, part of it has to do with ever lingering injury issues. I suspect another part with the scheme. While he's undoubtedly a quality tackle, he's also kind of tied to the ZBS more so than Clady is. Clady has the all around ability to dominate anywhere and anytime...Harris can too, but he really would be best in the ZBS, so he might not be completely highlighted by this scheme. I'd hate to lose him because he's a quality guy...borderline Pro Bowl in the right situation, but if he doesn't fit and is constantly dogged by injury issues, we may have to eventually move him. I'm not relishing that possibility, but I wouldn't hold it against the staff if they felt they had do given the entirety of the circumstances (assuming ofcourse...and this is a big assumption, that they could get good quality coming back to us...I obviously wouldn't be in favor of giving him away for free like we did with Alphonso...Harris is a good player, sometimes a great player, we better get something real nice back...webetter).

Last year Harris was being singled out as the reason the Broncos went 6-0 . I agree there is something wrong but I doubt it is Harris. His run blocking was best on the team last year . Clady was the best in the league two years ago .

the whole Oline seems in flux. I hope our Oline coach gets it right .

~Crash~
10-19-2010, 11:01 AM
That's an interesting point....although I'm not totally sure what Charlie Weis ran at Notre Dame...at least so far as the run game goes. I'm not sure its extremely similar to what we are doing now. It may be to an extent. One reason I feel that way is that Shanny likes to draft specifically for his scheme and looks for the athletic guys rather than the purely power guys, so I don't think he would have went for Harris unless he saw some good ZBS execution on film (again not saying that's all Weis did, obviously not, but at least somewhat) and some good system fit skills. Harris obviously must have shown that on college film and its clear he definitely showed a great talent for ZBS in Denver, previously.

You know I never thought about it ,but big toes have put a end to many carriers . hope this is not the case for Harris

Bronco Yoda
10-19-2010, 11:02 AM
We need Nalen's knee to the groin before games, for some added motivation.

~Crash~
10-19-2010, 11:03 AM
Last year Harris was like a pig in a slop bucket with this Scheme.

~Crash~
10-19-2010, 11:05 AM
We need Nalen's knee to the groin before games, for some added motivation.

Well he could be had I believe. Last I hear , He was coaching a Denver high school team .

boppool
10-19-2010, 11:24 AM
And god the Center should be cut right now.

Josh? Is that you?