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View Full Version : @$&* you Renaldo Hill


UberBroncoMan
10-17-2010, 05:18 PM
Had to get that off my chest.

MrPeepers
10-17-2010, 05:20 PM
1 play. good game for everything else. game of inches.

Taco John
10-17-2010, 05:21 PM
Let me add a "Catch that $#!& Bay Bay!"

loborugger
10-17-2010, 05:21 PM
That was a lot more to that game than just that one play.

brncs_fan
10-17-2010, 05:21 PM
I was thinking to myself just moments before that play what exactly it is that he does.


Now I know...

Goobzilla
10-17-2010, 05:22 PM
The Tito Paul of a new generation.

Chris
10-17-2010, 05:22 PM
I was thinking to myself just moments before that play what exactly it is that he does.


Now I know...

He also recovers Jets fumbles. Tough loss but it's a long season and the worst is over.

Lolad
10-17-2010, 05:25 PM
He also recovers Jets fumbles. Tough loss but it's a long season and the worst is over.

Says who?

McDman
10-17-2010, 05:30 PM
What pissed me off is he was laughing after the game. The guy just lost us a ****ing game and he's gonna laugh?

LRtagger
10-17-2010, 05:32 PM
How hard is it to turn your damn head and play the ball? How many flags have to get thrown before DBs learn?

**** you Renaldo Hill.


Also **** you JD Walton.

Orange4Life
10-17-2010, 05:33 PM
I want him cut today

NYBronco
10-17-2010, 05:34 PM
A botched snap on a FG and missed FG attempt. The team played well reaching deep on the depth charts with all the injuries recently. Tough loss but they played with them.

LRtagger
10-17-2010, 05:38 PM
Oh yea and **** you too lonnie paxton you queef

Popps
10-17-2010, 05:39 PM
That's what happens when you're without your two best pass rushers. Sanchez never had anyone in his face in the 2nd half. Oh well. Brutal loss but a great effort. Hope we can build on this kind of play. (minus the miscues)

ro_50
10-17-2010, 05:40 PM
JD Walton has been an average center all season. Period.

misturanderson
10-17-2010, 05:40 PM
You guys are seriously blaming him for that BS call? **** the refs for making a call as questionable as that one at a point where it decided the game. Holmes grabbed him on his way to the ground and they called PI for him reaching back to feel for where Holmes was? Seriously? The refs were pretty terrible overall, but the game was called relatively fairly (meaning lots of no calls and ticky tack fouls for both sides), but you can't make THAT call at that point in the game.

Ray Finkle
10-17-2010, 05:41 PM
JD Walton has been an average center all season. Period.

for a rookie center, I'll take that.

go_broncos
10-17-2010, 05:41 PM
That's what happens when you're without your two best pass rushers. Sanchez never had anyone in his face in the 2nd half. Oh well. Brutal loss but a great effort. Hope we can build on this kind of play. (minus the miscues)

I thought you will create a thread ..

Dr. Broncenstein
10-17-2010, 05:41 PM
Our dreams of a superbowl are dashed because Hill couldn't cover Holmes one on one. Hill is the worst person evar. Cut him immediately.

Never mind the playcalling / lack of production in the red zone / bumbled snap on a FG by a guy who is a high-priced replacement to another guy who wasn't a problem.

Kaylore
10-17-2010, 05:41 PM
JD Walton has been an average center all season. Period.

Actually at times he's been our best lineman on the field, and that's not a compliment. This offensive line is playing well below their talent level. The rookie center gets a pass this year, but the rest need to step their game up.

enjolras
10-17-2010, 05:42 PM
I'm still in SHOCK that the referee threw that flag. Holmes iniated contact. Hell we was falling down. He sort of put his face mask into Hills hands... on a hail mary. 9 out of 10 referees leave that flag in their pocket.

Tell me what was different about what the Jet did to Champ on a similar hail mary play to end the first half (right in front of the same damn guy)?

NYBronco
10-17-2010, 05:43 PM
JD Walton has been an average center all season. Period.

He is after all a rookie in an inconsistent starting offensive lineup each week. Tough four weeks against some well established defensive fronts.

Hercules Rockefeller
10-17-2010, 05:45 PM
JD Walton has been an average center all season. Period.

He's a rookie and gets some leeway, but he's been no where close to average

theAPAOps5
10-17-2010, 05:45 PM
I'm still in SHOCK that the referee threw that flag. Holmes iniated contact. Hell we was falling down. He sort of put his face mask into Hills hands... on a hail mary. 9 out of 10 referees leave that flag in their pocket.

Tell me what was different about what the Jet did to Champ on a similar hail mary play to end the first half (right in front of the same damn guy)?

You are high. He didn't put his facemask in his hands. Hill grabbed it and turned the helmet. 1 out of 10 WOULDN'T make that call 9 out of 10 WOULD. It was the right call.

LetsGoBroncos
10-17-2010, 05:45 PM
You guys are seriously blaming him for that BS call? **** the refs for making a call as questionable as that one at a point where it decided the game. Holmes grabbed him on his way to the ground and they called PI for him reaching back to feel for where Holmes was? Seriously? The refs were pretty terrible overall, but the game was called relatively fairly (meaning lots of no calls and ticky tack fouls for both sides), but you can't make THAT call at that point in the game.

Perfectly said. That is an iffy call in the second quarter on a second down play. This was a fourth down hail mary with a little contact going both ways. Bad

ScottXray
10-17-2010, 05:45 PM
You guys are seriously blaming him for that BS call? **** the refs for making a call as questionable as that one at a point where it decided the game. Holmes grabbed him on his way to the ground and they called PI for him reaching back to feel for where Holmes was? Seriously? The refs were pretty terrible overall, but the game was called relatively fairly (meaning lots of no calls and ticky tack fouls for both sides), but you can't make THAT call at that point in the game.

Have to agree somewhat. Hill DID interfere....but he had to after Edwards used his left arm to push him to the back away from the ball. If anything it should have been offsetting penalties on BOTH players.

Tough break, and then the bad snap from Walton that Orton didn't handle and the game is over.

Proud of the way the team played , but the breaks just didn't add up to enough today.

Good sign of things to come....but we are in a deep hole.....
still only one game out of first in the division, but We absolutlely HAVE to win our division games, as we have 4 AFC losses . It starts next week.

misturanderson
10-17-2010, 05:46 PM
I'm still in SHOCK that the referee threw that flag. Holmes iniated contact. Hell we was falling down. He sort of put his face mask into Hills hands... on a hail mary. 9 out of 10 referees leave that flag in their pocket.

Tell me what was different about what the Jet did to Champ on a similar hail mary play to end the first half (right in front of the same damn guy)?

Preach it brother. That is a call that a ref cannot make with under 2 minutes left. It was a questionable call at best and it had a huge impact on the outcome of the game.

LetsGoBroncos
10-17-2010, 05:47 PM
You are high. He didn't put his facemask in his hands. Hill grabbed it and turned the helmet. 1 out of 10 WOULDN'T make that call 9 out of 10 WOULD. It was the right call.

Bull****. The first person to make contact was Holmes, the Hill made some contact as Holmes was falling down. Why a ref would want to bail them out on a fourth down hail mary is puzzling.

misturanderson
10-17-2010, 05:48 PM
You are high. He didn't put his facemask in his hands. Hill grabbed it and turned the helmet. 1 out of 10 WOULDN'T make that call 9 out of 10 WOULD. It was the right call.

No it wasn't. Watch it again. Hill doesn't initiate contact and he didn't even touch him until Holmes's ass was firmly planted on the ground. The flag needs to stay pocketed in that situation. the refs should not be deciding the outcome of games on questionable calls bailing out a receiver that fell down on a 4th down Hail Mary.

hookemhess
10-17-2010, 05:51 PM
Weak to blame 1 player for the loss.

tsiguy96
10-17-2010, 05:52 PM
JD walton should not be starting, fyi.

Lolad
10-17-2010, 05:58 PM
JD walton should not be starting, fyi.

Our FO & HC didn't believe it was a problem throughout the entire offseason.

Houshyamama
10-17-2010, 05:59 PM
You are high. He didn't put his facemask in his hands. Hill grabbed it and turned the helmet. 1 out of 10 WOULDN'T make that call 9 out of 10 WOULD. It was the right call.

Stop being a ****** and put back on your orange colored glasses. Objectivity has no place 'round here. In fact, we don't take kindly to your kind 'round here.

Popps
10-17-2010, 06:01 PM
Bull****. The first person to make contact was Holmes, the Hill made some contact as Holmes was falling down. Why a ref would want to bail them out on a fourth down hail mary is puzzling.

Not sure about that, but I'll watch again.

I mean, you can't yank a guy's head around by the mask and not expect the call.

It sucks, but it happens. Holmes is a tough guy to cover for that long.

That's a play where missing your premiere pass-rusher shows up, big-time.

BlaK-Argentina
10-17-2010, 06:01 PM
This game sucked like few others I had the pain of enduring. But I don't blame it on Hill. I just can't believe that play actually happened.

**** me. This game was devastating to me. Losing to that fat son of a mother****ing bitch coach and that little pussy LT hurts, bad.

McDman
10-17-2010, 06:03 PM
You are high. He didn't put his facemask in his hands. Hill grabbed it and turned the helmet. 1 out of 10 WOULDN'T make that call 9 out of 10 WOULD. It was the right call.

Agreed. You have to be seriously delusional to not see how that was PI.

Popps
10-17-2010, 06:04 PM
This game sucked like few others I had the pain of enduring. But I don't blame it on Hill. .

Nah.

The toads around here need a villain, and he's as good as any. Sure, you'd like to see him make the play, but he got beat and did the right thing... took the penalty. It was a strange play. Sanchez had no pressure on him. To me, that's what made that play happen. It was a freebie.

Hill is a quality player. This loss wasn't his fault.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-17-2010, 06:07 PM
You guys are seriously blaming him for that BS call? **** the refs for making a call as questionable as that one at a point where it decided the game. Holmes grabbed him on his way to the ground and they called PI for him reaching back to feel for where Holmes was? Seriously? The refs were pretty terrible overall, but the game was called relatively fairly (meaning lots of no calls and ticky tack fouls for both sides), but you can't make THAT call at that point in the game.

Couldnt have said that better. Point is, was it pass interference? Maybe, perhaps you can call it, but you cannot call it at that moment of the game. You have to let the players play. I know there's this "every play is the same thing," but the reality is he wasn't catching that ball, it was virtually a jump ball, and their hands were on each other. its sickening, heart breaking, and just ****ing horrible that the guy in stripes decided this game.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-17-2010, 06:08 PM
Not sure about that, but I'll watch again.

I mean, you can't yank a guy's head around by the mask and not expect the call.

It sucks, but it happens. Holmes is a tough guy to cover for that long.

That's a play where missing your premiere pass-rusher shows up, big-time.

I still say you cant make that call in that situation. his finger got caught, it was incidental and the chances of him actually coming down with that is slim. Its just a horrible time to throw a flag

theAPAOps5
10-17-2010, 06:12 PM
Stop being a ****** and put back on your orange colored glasses. Objectivity has no place 'round here. In fact, we don't take kindly to your kind 'round here.

Sorry my bad what was I thinking. Both were contacting but Hill was totally not in control when he grabbed his facemask and yanked. That was BS.

fontaine
10-17-2010, 06:14 PM
Hill made one glaring mistake at the end of the game (apart from which he had a decent game).

Nate Jones got picked on all day, gave up 4 first downs, didn't make a single decent play against the pass that I could see and there's no mention of his mistakes.

Sometimes, football sucks.

theAPAOps5
10-17-2010, 06:15 PM
Perfectly said. That is an iffy call in the second quarter on a second down play. This was a fourth down hail mary with a little contact going both ways. Bad

Not iffy at all grabbed and turned the helmet. But hey what ever gets you over a tough loss.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-17-2010, 06:16 PM
Hill made one glaring mistake at the end of the game (apart from which he had a decent game).

Nate Jones got picked on all day, gave up 4 first downs, didn't make a single decent play against the pass that I could see and there's no mention of his mistakes.

Sometimes, football sucks.

I hate hate hate that i love this game so much. I really ****ing hate it.

extralife
10-17-2010, 06:16 PM
That's what happens when you're without your two best pass rushers. Sanchez never had anyone in his face in the 2nd half. Oh well. Brutal loss but a great effort. Hope we can build on this kind of play. (minus the miscues)

hermedwards.jpeg

ColoradoDarin
10-17-2010, 06:16 PM
You guys are seriously blaming him for that BS call? **** the refs for making a call as questionable as that one at a point where it decided the game. Holmes grabbed him on his way to the ground and they called PI for him reaching back to feel for where Holmes was? Seriously? The refs were pretty terrible overall, but the game was called relatively fairly (meaning lots of no calls and ticky tack fouls for both sides), but you can't make THAT call at that point in the game.

This. Saw it live like that, replayed it and yup, at worst it should have been offsetting.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-17-2010, 06:17 PM
Not iffy at all grabbed and turned the helmet. But hey what ever gets you over a tough loss.

It got caught for like half a second...i really dont think he was gonna catch it, i dont think it should have been called.

Popps
10-17-2010, 06:17 PM
H
Nate Jones got picked on all day, gave up 4 first downs, didn't make a single decent play against the pass that I could see .

He made a very nice defend late in the game. In fact, I believe it was the play that sent it to 4th down. (Pre- PI call.)

Not sure about the rest of his day, but I didn't see any glaring errors. Could have missed some.

WolfpackGuy
10-17-2010, 06:19 PM
Let the Kyle McCarthy era begin!

LOL

Actually, the Edwards TD pass where Hill covered NOONE was a worse play than the PI.

theAPAOps5
10-17-2010, 06:20 PM
It got caught for like half a second...i really dont think he was gonna catch it, i dont think it should have been called.

Hey I am not trying to argue but when you grab the mask and turn his helmet that is not a brief no call. It was PI people who think otherwise just want to blame the Refs for a bad play.

It sucks there was contact on both sides well before but the Ref caught the most drastic one.

oubronco
10-17-2010, 06:21 PM
At the most it should've been a 15yd facemask that bullshyt of PI give them the ball at the one was horrid and decided the game something a ref shouldn't ever do

Gort
10-17-2010, 06:21 PM
That's what happens when you're without your two best pass rushers. Sanchez never had anyone in his face in the 2nd half. Oh well. Brutal loss but a great effort. Hope we can build on this kind of play. (minus the miscues)

i don't know how you can say it was a great effort. the O was very pedestrian. Orton was off on many of his throws. when he did throw it close to the receiver, they usually had a DB draped all over them. aside from a couple of long runs, the rushing game was still pretty weak. we are still seeing the same problems with the offensive playcalls. i can't think of a single time the Jets were caught on their heels by the offense. the unexpected onsides kick was a good idea. but you don't win games with 1 or 2 successful gimmick plays.

the Broncos played just good enough to lose. at home. again.

that's not a great effort and i don't believe in moral victories.

Malcontent
10-17-2010, 06:21 PM
You guys are seriously blaming him for that BS call? **** the refs for making a call as questionable as that one at a point where it decided the game. Holmes grabbed him on his way to the ground and they called PI for him reaching back to feel for where Holmes was? Seriously? The refs were pretty terrible overall, but the game was called relatively fairly (meaning lots of no calls and ticky tack fouls for both sides), but you can't make THAT call at that point in the game.

It was an obvious PI call...watched it 100 times to Sunday and no way that is not PI.

theAPAOps5
10-17-2010, 06:23 PM
It was an obvious PI call...watched it 100 times to Sunday and no way that is not PI.

Welcome to reality ville population..... only a few of us.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-17-2010, 06:23 PM
Hey I am not trying to argue but when you grab the mask and turn his helmet that is not a brief no call. It was PI people who think otherwise just want to blame the Refs for a bad play.

It sucks there was contact on both sides well before but the Ref caught the most drastic one.

To me thats just an example of when you should let players play. biggest play of the game and it wasnt this completely egregious PI. Was it PI? maybe...worse has been let go. But im a big believer in keeping the flag in your pocket in certain situations. That brief finger in his facemask, on a 4th and 6th jump ball, during the biggest play of the game isn't worth 40 yards, a sure touchdown, and a win. Its just not. Robots dont call games, humans do.

And had this been the reversed sitch, i would have loved it but admitted it probably shouldnt have been called

WolfpackGuy
10-17-2010, 06:24 PM
It was interference.

Not sure why he didn't pick it off or at least knock it down.

He looked like freakin Adam Dunn in the outfield.

theAPAOps5
10-17-2010, 06:27 PM
To me thats just an example of when you should let players play. biggest play of the game and it wasnt this completely egregious PI. Was it PI? maybe...worse has been let go. But im a big believer in keeping the flag in your pocket in certain situations. That brief finger in his facemask, on a 4th and 6th jump ball, during the biggest play of the game isn't worth 40 yards, a sure touchdown, and a win. Its just not. Robots dont call games, humans do.

And had this been the reversed sitch, i would have loved it but admitted it probably shouldnt have been called

No it really isn't. Grasping a facemask and turning the helmet is not incidental contact. If he touched it and didn't actually grasp your point is valid. Alas that wasn't the case. It sucks, it blows actually, but it wasn't a bad call.

Williams
10-17-2010, 06:27 PM
You guys are seriously blaming him for that BS call? **** the refs for making a call as questionable as that one at a point where it decided the game. Holmes grabbed him on his way to the ground and they called PI for him reaching back to feel for where Holmes was? Seriously? The refs were pretty terrible overall, but the game was called relatively fairly (meaning lots of no calls and ticky tack fouls for both sides), but you can't make THAT call at that point in the game.

Agree.

Perfectly said. That is an iffy call in the second quarter on a second down play. This was a fourth down hail mary with a little contact going both ways. Bad

Agree.

Have to agree somewhat. Hill DID interfere....but he had to after Edwards used his left arm to push him to the back away from the ball. If anything it should have been offsetting penalties on BOTH players.


Agree.

Couldnt have said that better. Point is, was it pass interference? Maybe, perhaps you can call it, but you cannot call it at that moment of the game. You have to let the players play. I know there's this "every play is the same thing," but the reality is he wasn't catching that ball, it was virtually a jump ball, and their hands were on each other. its sickening, heart breaking, and just ****ing horrible that the guy in stripes decided this game.

...and agree. Damn it sucks to have such a questionable call on 4th & long cost us this game.

On a positive note, I am very proud of strong representation from all the Bronco fans in attendance today. Man that place was rocking and I loved the "orange out."

theAPAOps5
10-17-2010, 06:28 PM
Not questionable at all. Its hilarious that people think otherwise.

YES there was contact by both before hand. But its like Personal Fouls the refs always catch the second, or last move. Unfortunately Hill made an obvious PI at the end and it was caught.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-17-2010, 06:30 PM
No it really isn't. Grasping a facemask and turning the helmet is not incidental contact. If he touched it and didn't actually grasp your point is valid. Alas that wasn't the case. It sucks, it blows actually, but it wasn't a bad call.

He was going back to feel him and his hand got caught in it. I dont think this was an intentional grab, especially while backing up. Holmes' (was it holmes?) momentum was going the other way and he wasnt going to catch it. I understand the rules, PI is PI, but to me that brief contact isn't worth giving an entire football game to a team...and thats essentially what happened.

Spider
10-17-2010, 06:30 PM
team loss , granted hill didnt help , but the botched FG attempt , dropped passes ......

oubronco
10-17-2010, 06:30 PM
Not questionable at all. Its hilarious that people think otherwise.

At the most it should have been a 15yd facemask

theAPAOps5
10-17-2010, 06:31 PM
At the most it should have been a 15yd facemask

This is the only argument that I actually think has merit. But then it effected the catch so that is why it turns to PI.

He was going back to feel him and his hand got caught in it. I dont think this was an intentional grab, especially while backing up. Holmes' (was it holmes?) momentum was going the other way and he wasnt going to catch it. I understand the rules, PI is PI, but to me that brief contact isn't worth giving an entire football game to a team...and thats essentially what happened.

And no he didn't get his hand stuck, he grabbed whatever was there and it was the facemask. No accident about it.

theAPAOps5
10-17-2010, 06:34 PM
Look, at the end of the day it was a suck ass way to lose. Regardless of what side of the call you are on.

Pick Six
10-17-2010, 06:36 PM
Hill actually could have been called for interference, as they were going down the sideline. I have no doubt that Hill was a main culprit for Holmes falling down. That play sucked all the way around...

SonOfLe-loLang
10-17-2010, 06:37 PM
This is the only argument that I actually think has merit. But then it effected the catch so that is why it turns to PI.



And no he didn't get his hand stuck, he grabbed whatever was there and it was the facemask. No accident about it.

I really disagree with this. It was such a quick play, thats just where he placed his hand when he was looking back. As said, under normal circumstances, if they called that, i would have bitched but let it go. But i really dont think he was gonna catch it, and with that call, (on brief contact), they gave the jets the game. Keep your flag in your pocket during that moment in the game.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-17-2010, 06:38 PM
Look, at the end of the day it was a suck ass way to lose. Regardless of what side of the call you are on.

Agreed. its horrible. we had that game, needed that game, and lost that game on a ball that was essentially up for grabs. its ****ing devastating and i really cant stand the ****ing jets.

McDman
10-17-2010, 07:03 PM
It was PI, get over it. The Jets actually got worse calls than we did.

eddie mac
10-17-2010, 07:08 PM
For me this team and McDaniels will and should be judged moreso in the upcoming games because they are ones were we should be competitive and indeed should be winning.

errand
10-17-2010, 07:10 PM
JD Walton has been an average center all season. Period.

He's a rookie, man...he's not God. BTW, you guys care that we won a game this season the same we gave up the winning TD this week.


Tennessee gave us a first down on their goal line with a pass interference call...win some lose some...

Goobzilla
10-17-2010, 07:47 PM
It was PI, get over it. The Jets actually got worse calls than we did.

That phantom helmet to helmet call on Jim Leonhard was terrible.

BroncosSR
10-17-2010, 07:52 PM
That phantom helmet to helmet call on Jim Leonhard was terrible.

And we got the DT touchdown catch. The Jets easily had worse calls go against them. Good teams find ways to battle and score points. Something our offense couldn't do. There's always 3 years from now...

orange 4 life
10-17-2010, 07:53 PM
You guys are seriously blaming him for that BS call? **** the refs for making a call as questionable as that one at a point where it decided the game. Holmes grabbed him on his way to the ground and they called PI for him reaching back to feel for where Holmes was? Seriously? The refs were pretty terrible overall, but the game was called relatively fairly (meaning lots of no calls and ticky tack fouls for both sides), but you can't make THAT call at that point in the game.

This.

**** that ref. God forgive me but I was dreaming of him in pain the whole way home.
Kinda still am.

We made mistake after mistake and still won the game.....Until that POS ref throws that flag.
He needs to realize the gravity of that situation and keep the flag in his pocket.

BroncosSR
10-17-2010, 07:55 PM
This.

**** that ref. God forgive me but I was dreaming of him in pain the whole way home.
Kinda still am.

We made mistake after mistake and still won the game.....Until that POS ref throws that flag.
He needs to realize the gravity of that situation and keep the flag in his pocket.

The gravity of the situation of your favorite team losing? It was a good call. The Broncos beat themselves way before this call was made.

Orange4Life
10-17-2010, 07:56 PM
Its not all Hills fault but he definitely got the majority of my wrath. If only because it was the biggest, most obvious, and most recent **** up of the day.
The effort on day was outstanding. The metal aspect of the game was not good.

theAPAOps5
10-17-2010, 07:57 PM
The gravity of the situation of your favorite team losing? It was a good call. The Broncos beat themselves way before this call was made.

Yep, I understand wanting to find excuses, but it was PI, horrid way to lose. But Denver should never have been in that position with the plays and points they left on the field.

The Moops
10-17-2010, 07:58 PM
I've seen the play a few times, the ref shouldn't have made the call in a tight game. Some pushing back and forth, but really . . . c'mon, how do you throw that flag!?!

Popps
10-17-2010, 07:58 PM
i don't know how you can say it was a great effort.

We had one of the best teams in football on the ropes and played our asses off, after looking terrible the week before.

Pretty straight forward.


that's not a great effort and i don't believe in moral victories.

That's nice. I don't recall asking and I'll venture a guess that no one really gives a f### what you believe.

theAPAOps5
10-17-2010, 07:59 PM
I've seen the play a few times, the ref shouldn't have made the call in a tight game. Some pushing back and forth, but really . . . c'mon, how do you throw that flag!?!

Guess you totally ignored him grabbing the facemask and pulling. It was more than pushing, or did your DVR cut off early?

WolfpackGuy
10-17-2010, 08:01 PM
It was interference.

This is the NFL, not basketball.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-17-2010, 08:02 PM
Guess you totally ignored him grabbing the facemask and pulling. It was more than pushing, or did your DVR cut off early?

I get why you think its pass int, but it wasnt egregious pass int. I'm just saying the results of that infraction (and he wasnt catching that ball anyway), is not worthy of the offense. That call gave the Jets the game. You have to keep your flag in your pocket and let them play a little. There was a back and forth, his hand did reach his facemask (it wasnt on purpose), and it just sucks that the entire game rested on that play. If this had been the reverse, id have been elated by the call, but said it was probably a little cheap (just as i did after the titans game).

Clockwork Orange
10-17-2010, 08:03 PM
That phantom helmet to helmet call on Jim Leonhard was terrible.

Thank you. The officiating in this game wasn't very good, but they definitely weren't favoring anybody. The Jets got the short end on a few pretty weak calls.

As for the PI call at the end, they actually got that one right. If the roles were reversed, everyone here, myself included, would be screaming for the flag. It's nothing to crucify Hill over seeing as there were numerous other reasons they lost this game. Hell, even after the Jets took the lead there, the Broncos had time on the clock and three timeouts to work with.

Finger Roll
10-17-2010, 08:09 PM
It was the right call. You can't put all the blame on Hill on that play because Sanchez had about ten minutes to throw it.

Hulamau
10-17-2010, 08:13 PM
What pissed me off is he was laughing after the game. The guy just lost us a ****ing game and he's gonna laugh?

Saw that too .. get a clue Renaldo you're on national TV .. not a great time to be yucking it up with some Jet buddies! And watch what you're doing with your damn hands when falling down next to a WR on a 4th and 6 Hail Mary!

SonOfLe-loLang
10-17-2010, 08:15 PM
Saw that too .. get a clue Renaldo you're on national TV .. not a great time to be yucking it up with some Jet buddies! And watch what you're doing with your damn hands when falling down next to a WR on a 4th and 6 Hail Mary!

Oh relax. During one of my high school games, i missed a field goal at the end of the game that resulted in a loss. Apparently, i smiled after the game (at some point) and one of the other players mother's came up to me and told me i had no right to smile. it was ****ing absurd.

Would you prefer Renaldo go home and cry? He played hard, who the **** cares if he smiles after the game.

Sassy
10-17-2010, 08:17 PM
Had to get that off my chest.

McD said after the game that the penalty wasn't the reason for the loss. They needed to capitalize on a lot of other things.

gyldenlove
10-17-2010, 08:19 PM
1 play. good game for everything else. game of inches.

Did you see him in coverage on the first TD? yeah, nobody else did either, he was sitting nicely 15 yards behind the 2 short options and 15 yards in front of the 2 deep options. Safety is a big problem for us right now, when was the last time you thought, wow big play by Hill or wow, Hill really saved that TD. If you are thinking of a game last season, then welcome to the club of people of who think Renaldo Hill needs an asskicking or a ticket to the unemployment line.

Hulamau
10-17-2010, 08:21 PM
It was the right call. You can't put all the blame on Hill on that play because Sanchez had about ten minutes to throw it.

Technically, but it didnt change the outcome of the play .. no way Holmes was gonna catch that the way he was falling backward and the ball trajectory was coming down between his lower legs. Yes Hill ****ed up with his lazy undisciplined brush of his fingers across his facemask but it didnt prevent a catch..

At that point in the game, in particular,the ref should only throw a flag when the contact is signifcant and when it potentially changes the outcome of the play .. or he actually grabs his mask. None of which happened.

So Yeah,Shame on Hill for sloppy coverage on that play and shame on the stinkin' ref for being a punk biatch and throwin' the flag! Sucks all around!

WolfpackGuy
10-17-2010, 08:21 PM
Did you see him in coverage on the first TD? yeah, nobody else did either, he was sitting nicely 15 yards behind the 2 short options and 15 yards in front of the 2 deep options. Safety is a big problem for us right now, when was the last time you thought, wow big play by Hill or wow, Hill really saved that TD. If you are thinking of a game last season, then welcome to the club of people of who think Renaldo Hill needs an asskicking or a ticket to the unemployment line.

He ran up too far then just did a little dance. For what, I don't know.

Left the deep middle wide open for Edwards.

Jets did a nice rub on Bailey to get space though.

Gort
10-17-2010, 08:25 PM
Technically, but it didnt change the outcome of the play .. no way Holmes was gonna catch that the way he was falling backward and the ball trajectory was coming down between his lower legs. Yes Hill ****ed up with his lazy unidsciplined brush of his fingers across his facemask but it didnt prevent a catch..

At that point in the game, in particular,the ref should only throw a flag when the contact is signifcant and when it potentially changes the outcome of the play .. or he actually grabs his mask. None of which happened.

So Yeakh,Shame on Hill for sloppy coverage on that play and shame on the stinkin' ref for being a punk biatch and throwin' the flag! Sucks all around!

what really sucks is that since Sanchez had so much time to throw, there was almost certainly offensive holding on the play. that never seems to get called against the Broncos opponents when the game is on the line, but i can think of about a half dozen times in the past 4 or 5 years where a holding call went against the Broncos and contributed to a Broncos loss.

this league has too many ticky-tack penalties. stop coddling the receivers. let the guys jostle with each other they way they were allowed in the 70's and 80's. the game was fine then. they didn't need to change the rules.

WolfpackGuy
10-17-2010, 08:27 PM
what really sucks is that since Sanchez had so much time to throw, there was almost certainly offensive holding on the play. that never seems to get called against the Broncos opponents when the game is on the line, but i can think of about a half dozen times in the past 4 or 5 years where a holding call went against the Broncos and contributed to a Broncos loss.

this league has too many ticky-tack penalties. stop coddling the receivers. let the guys jostle with each other they way they were allowed in the 70's and 80's. the game was fine then. they didn't need to change the rules.

Peyton Manning disagrees.

LOL

KipCorrington25
10-17-2010, 08:29 PM
The problem is nobody sits and watches 3 hours of a game for some 50 year old dude with a big market agenda to dictate the outcome.

They were going to figure out a way to get NY the victory it's good for the league office.

theAPAOps5
10-17-2010, 08:34 PM
The problem is nobody sits and watches 3 hours of a game for some 50 year old dude with a big market agenda to dictate the outcome.

They were going to figure out a way to get NY the victory it's good for the league office.

Oh got its hit new levels! That was the right call and the Jets should be the ones complaining about the calls.

Thanks for the laugh!

gyldenlove
10-17-2010, 08:36 PM
He ran up too far then just did a little dance. For what, I don't know.

Left the deep middle wide open for Edwards.

Jets did a nice rub on Bailey to get space though.

It was a pretty simple play, Keller and I forget who else ran short routes, Holmes and Edwards both ran what looked like double move post routes, but could just be regular post routes. In that situation Hill has to know if he is the deep cover or if he has to move up and help the linebackers, looked he didn't know which one he was supposed to play so he just did a little jig, then jogged a few stops towards Edwards after he had made the catch. I am pretty sure on that play, Cox and Bailey are supposed to play the outside route and Hill is supposed to cover the deep middle, but he doesn't seem to have the mental capacity to do that.

Rock Chalk
10-17-2010, 08:40 PM
Holy **** some people REALLY think that wasn't PI?

That was definitely PI and I dont care WHAT POINT the game is in, the refs need to call that. 4th down, 4th quarter, hail mary pass or first down, 1st quarter, short dump off, same thing, that was a blatant PI and while the end result sucked for us, we have also benefitted from that same exact thing happening.

This loss isn't on any one player, but there are other players to point the finger at MORE than Hill who had one bad play.

The team wins as a unit and loses as a unit.

Walton's muffed snap at the end was worse. We still could have won the game, we weren't out of it. His one muffed snap though, sealed our doom. If anyone should be taking the brunt of the hatred its Walton but even still, there are numerous things that went wrong for us. Orton having an off day, Moreno fumbling, 3 points on 3 turnovers AND an onsides kick.

And let's not blow smoke up our defense's ass. We gave up 24 points. That's not a good day by your defense. I dont care how you ****ing spin it.

Dedhed
10-17-2010, 08:44 PM
It was an obvious PI call...watched it 100 times to Sunday and no way that is not PI.

This. Yes, it's a lame call late in the 4th qtr, but it's going to be called like that 100% of the time in today's NFL.

What's ridiculous is that Hill is 50 yards down field 12 seconds after the snap, and instead of looking for the ball he chooses to face guard Holmes.

He made a terrible assumption that the play was over and not coming in his direction, and wasn't prepared when the ball showed up. When it did he panicked and interfered with Holmes.

Hulamau
10-17-2010, 08:46 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/portlet/article/html/imageDisplay.jsp?contentItemRelationshipId=3350913



Here's a pix of the finger 'brush' ... Didnt seem too distracting .. but yes its tecnically a PI and Hill should not have done it.

Of course we had severalopportuinies earlier to have sealed up the game and it would have all been a moot point by then and we didnt. Still make too many amateur mistakes against good teams and I hope these guys young and old alike will learn what it takes to finish the job from this one.

Dont think the pix link is working .. here's the ariticle link..

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16362915?_requestid=13401702

If only hill didnt touch the facemask the ref would have never called a PI .. never even have noticed any incidental contact.

theAPAOps5
10-17-2010, 08:50 PM
What that picture doesn't show is that his helmet is cockeyed. Its not a "brush" he is grabbing it.

He didn't touch the face mask he turned the helmet, you don't turn the helmet when you just "touch" it.

gyldenlove
10-17-2010, 09:13 PM
Holy **** some people REALLY think that wasn't PI?

That was definitely PI and I dont care WHAT POINT the game is in, the refs need to call that. 4th down, 4th quarter, hail mary pass or first down, 1st quarter, short dump off, same thing, that was a blatant PI and while the end result sucked for us, we have also benefitted from that same exact thing happening.

This loss isn't on any one player, but there are other players to point the finger at MORE than Hill who had one bad play.

The team wins as a unit and loses as a unit.

Walton's muffed snap at the end was worse. We still could have won the game, we weren't out of it. His one muffed snap though, sealed our doom. If anyone should be taking the brunt of the hatred its Walton but even still, there are numerous things that went wrong for us. Orton having an off day, Moreno fumbling, 3 points on 3 turnovers AND an onsides kick.

And let's not blow smoke up our defense's ass. We gave up 24 points. That's not a good day by your defense. I dont care how you ****ing spin it.

Definitely PI, no question about that, it was a stupid one to take because making that catch sitting down is no easy task.

What makes this one worse is that in the 2nd quarter, 2nd to last play, Orton has Royal in the end zone, almost perfect pass, but the CB puts his across Royals body before the pass gets there so Royal has no chance of playing it, it was obvious PI would have given us the ball at the 1, but not called even though the ref had a really good view of it.

The MVPlaya
10-17-2010, 09:17 PM
Definitely PI, no question about that, it was a stupid one to take because making that catch sitting down is no easy task.

What makes this one worse is that in the 2nd quarter, 2nd to last play, Orton has Royal in the end zone, almost perfect pass, but the CB puts his across Royals body before the pass gets there so Royal has no chance of playing it, it was obvious PI would have given us the ball at the 1, but not called even though the ref had a really good view of it.

Yes, I completely forgot about this play... it was a P.I. and should have been called as the defender was CLEARLY there way before the ball was there.

tsiguy96
10-17-2010, 09:20 PM
denver beat themselves today, no question. offense was completely off for most of the game. they outplayed the jets in most areas.

Broncoman13
10-17-2010, 09:29 PM
3 points off 3 turnovers and a recovered onside kick... Not happy with Hill for pulling a Xawkins out there, but we blew a lot of chances!

The Joker
10-17-2010, 10:02 PM
Absolutely blatant PI.

He grabbed him by the facemask and pulled, you just can't do that.

Heartbreaking loss, but I saw enough to believe we can win our next two games and get to the bye at 4-4. If we do that we're in decent shape.

BigPlayShay
10-17-2010, 10:44 PM
I will preface this that I am not blaming it on the refs, but Hill's grabbing the facemask was in direct reaction to Holmes pulling his jersey. If anything this should have been offsetting. This is why I contend that the booth should review PI calls, at least in the last 2 minutes of halves:

theAPAOps5
10-17-2010, 10:52 PM
Like I said the refs always catch the second reaction and the face mask is more blatant. It sucks, nothing more, nothing less.

Bronco Yoda
10-17-2010, 11:03 PM
I will preface this that I am not blaming it on the refs, but Hill's grabbing the facemask was in direct reaction to Holmes pulling his jersey. If anything this should have been offsetting. This is why I contend that the booth should review PI calls, at least in the last 2 minutes of halves:

I agree. Also I've always advocated 15 yards for PI's. Too many cheap yards given out by penalties all the time. Give an extra down or time if also if need be... but yards should be earned.

MplsBronco
10-17-2010, 11:12 PM
I should have posted this after the Titans game so it doesn't seem like sour grapes, but when is the NFL going to do away with PI being a spot foul? It has to be a 15 yard penalty. It's not fair that a team can get bailed out on plays like that.

The MVPlaya
10-17-2010, 11:15 PM
I should have posted this after the Titans game so it doesn't seem like sour grapes, but when is the NFL going to do away with PI being a spot foul? It has to be a 15 yard penalty. It's not fair that a team can get bailed out on plays like that.

It goes both ways... if a receiver beats a WR on a 20+ yard route, a defensive player could easily just play super aggressive or even do whatever it takes to prevent the WR from catching it.

baja
10-17-2010, 11:15 PM
I should have posted this after the Titans game so it doesn't seem like sour grapes, but when is the NFL going to do away with PI being a spot foul? It has to be a 15 yard penalty. It's not fair that a team can get bailed out on plays like that.

The problem is defenses will take the penalty every time on an end zone throw. They will be blatant about it.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-17-2010, 11:24 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/portlet/article/html/imageDisplay.jsp?contentItemRelationshipId=3350913



Here's a pix of the finger 'brush' ... Didnt seem too distracting .. but yes its tecnically a PI and Hill should not have done it.

Of course we had severalopportuinies earlier to have sealed up the game and it would have all been a moot point by then and we didnt. Still make too many amateur mistakes against good teams and I hope these guys young and old alike will learn what it takes to finish the job from this one.

Dont think the pix link is working .. here's the ariticle link..

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16362915?_requestid=13401702

If only hill didnt touch the facemask the ref would have never called a PI .. never even have noticed any incidental contact.

Wow, Sanchez is a cocky son of a bitch for a guy who really didn't play that well...and ummm, Holmes was not catching that ball, sorry. As for BLATENT PI? Hardly BLATENT, i still dont think the result of that play (giving the Jets the game on a 4th and 6 prayer that he wasnt going to catch anyway) fits the offense.

MplsBronco
10-17-2010, 11:24 PM
So a DB gets beat badly off the line and holds and it is 5 yard penaly. What's the difference? College has it right, the pros have it wrong. Period. These what if scenarios of players fouling on purpose are not realistic.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-17-2010, 11:26 PM
I will preface this that I am not blaming it on the refs, but Hill's grabbing the facemask was in direct reaction to Holmes pulling his jersey. If anything this should have been offsetting. This is why I contend that the booth should review PI calls, at least in the last 2 minutes of halves:

well isnt that nice. ugh, the more i think about that call the angrier i get over it.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-17-2010, 11:28 PM
The problem is defenses will take the penalty every time on an end zone throw. They will be blatant about it.

I dont agree with this, have you played football? Your general reaction is to try and make a play, not create a penalty. If you get beat horribly, some of the savvier defenders in the league will still PI anyway, if they are in any position to do this.

MplsBronco
10-17-2010, 11:29 PM
I dont agree with this, have you played football? Your general reaction is to try and make a play, not create a penalty. If you get beat horribly, some of the savvier defenders in the league will still PI anyway, if they are in any position to do this.

Exactly

MplsBronco
10-17-2010, 11:32 PM
Not to mention how ticky tack PI is called. God I can't stand the f'ing rule but it's all about the offense in the NFL. I think it was last week Cox was called for PI in the end zone for face guarding when he didn't even touch the WR. Face guarding? WTF, that's called playing defense.

Bronco Yoda
10-17-2010, 11:33 PM
It goes both ways... if a receiver beats a WR on a 20+ yard route, a defensive player could easily just play super aggressive or even do whatever it takes to prevent the WR from catching it.

So, penalize 15 yards and reset the play clock and down. See how easy that is.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-17-2010, 11:34 PM
Not to mention how ticky tack PI is called. God I can't stand the f'ing rule but it's all about the offense in the NFL. I think it was last week Cox was called for PI in the end zone for face guarding when he didn't even touch the WR. Face guarding? WTF, that's called playing defense.

Face guarding and the now repealed pushed out of bounds call were two that never made sense to me. If you have your hands up and dont touch em, why is it a penalty? Shouldnt that just be good coverage?

strafen
10-17-2010, 11:38 PM
A botched snap on a FG and missed FG attempt. The team played well reaching deep on the depth charts with all the injuries recently. Tough loss but they played with them.We've had some missed opportunities.
To blame Hill for that is forgetting what we missed earlier during the game that actually put us in a position to try to win it in the last minute of the game.
But at the end of the day, all we could ask for was to have a chance to hold the ball last, and with 1:13 and 3 timeouts left, we didn't get it done...

MplsBronco
10-17-2010, 11:39 PM
It's just that watching games get decided on calls like that, and I am not saying it WASN'T PI, or plays like the CHI-DET game week 1 make we wonder why I watch the NFL.

strafen
10-17-2010, 11:46 PM
It's just that watching games get decided on calls like that, and I am not saying it WASN'T PI, or plays like the CHI-DET game week 1 make we wonder why I watch the NFL.It was the correct call no matter how you slice it.
It's the NFL. Every team has at one time or another been in the receiving end of calls like that...

SonOfLe-loLang
10-18-2010, 12:21 AM
It was the correct call no matter how you slice it.
It's the NFL. Every team has at one time or another been in the receiving end of calls like that...

It being the "correct call" and calling it in that situation, to me, are two different things. Technically anytime you lay your hands on a receiver after 5 yards its PI, but its certainly not called everytime. They jostled, he got his hand in the facemask, but i dont think holmes had a great chance of catching that and i sincerely doubt the infraction was what caused that (despite sanchez's claim). Point being, the result of the penalty essentially gave the Jets the game, which, to me, was not justifiable considering the infraction...thats all, on plays that important, unless its incredibly egregious, keep your flag in your pocket. Plus, watching those two stills of Holmes grabbing the back of Hill's jersey is pretty annoying

broncocalijohn
10-18-2010, 12:24 AM
You dont think Mike Leach is laughing right now as he easily snaps that ball to convert the chip shot field goal. Also, let us not forget Walton for the penalties and F up snap when we needed that play to save our ass. Lot of F YOU to go around.

The MVPlaya
10-18-2010, 12:34 AM
So, penalize 15 yards and reset the play clock and down. See how easy that is.

So you're saying you think it's fair that a WR can be 50 yards down field in position to catch the ball, and as a defensive player, you can just knock the **** out of him, grab his face mask, push him before the ball gets there, etc to prevent him from catching the ball and you'll only be penalized 15 yards for it?

The rule is now, place the ball at the spot of the foul, reset the play clock and down. See how easy that is?

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the rule 100% because of how easily it can dictate the game on tick tack calls... but the previous 15 yard penalty isn't coming back. This is an offensive league, and that's what the NFL wants and that's what drives revenue.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-18-2010, 12:38 AM
So you're saying you think it's fair that a WR can be 50 yards down field in position to catch the ball, and as a defensive player, you can just knock the **** out of him, grab his face mask, push him before the ball gets there, etc to prevent him from catching the ball and you'll only be penalized 15 yards for it?

The rule is now, place the ball at the spot of the foul, reset the play clock and down. See how easy that is?

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the rule 100% because of how easily it can dictate the game on tick tack calls... but the previous 15 yard penalty isn't coming back. This is an offensive league, and that's what the NFL wants and that's what drives revenue.

Ok if the defender is close enough to do the bolded, why the hell wouldnt he just make a play on the ball?

Gort
10-18-2010, 12:46 AM
Ok if the defender is close enough to do the bolded, why the hell wouldnt he just make a play on the ball?

i say we roll back the rules to the 1920's. no more forward passes. just flying wedges and dropkicks. who's with me?

:p

seriously though, i've made my peace with yesterday's result. the Broncos deserve to be 2-4. they're not an elite team anymore. Shanny left the cupboard almost bare. McD came in a tore down the cupboard and put up his own fancy new cupboard that he had shipped in from Boston. we should all expect a season end result in the 7-9 win range... and 9 is only possible if they correct alot of their current problems quickly and get lucky in a couple of games. they have injuries. they are lacking depth. they have some coaching issues. and some of the starters are just not that good right now.

The MVPlaya
10-18-2010, 01:42 AM
Ok if the defender is close enough to do the bolded, why the hell wouldnt he just make a play on the ball?

Because he's out of position? Because he's not looking at the ball or for the ball? Because he's at a huge size disadvantage (like Alphonso Smith on Randy Moss)

I mean with your logic, why are the P.I.'s to begin with? Why do players commit so many P.I.'s now?

Like the Jabar Gaffney play against Titans... the DB was out of position because he let up and just went after Gaffney.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-18-2010, 01:54 AM
Because he's out of position? Because he's not looking at the ball or for the ball? Because he's at a huge size disadvantage (like Alphonso Smith on Randy Moss)

I mean with your logic, why are the P.I.'s to begin with? Why do players commit so many P.I.'s now?

Like the Jabar Gaffney play against Titans... the DB was out of position because he let up and just went after Gaffney.

I dont think you've ever played football

The MVPlaya
10-18-2010, 02:13 AM
I dont think you've ever played football

I have (in the secondary too) but I'm not sure how this even comes into the discussion.

You're asking me if they're that close why don't they make a play on the ball and I gave a you an example of the Titans game on how the defender was caught out of position and went right at Gaffney in the endzone to save a TD.

I mean, bring some substance to the table instead of random comments that are of no relevance.

McDman
10-18-2010, 03:11 AM
It being the "correct call" and calling it in that situation, to me, are two different things. Technically anytime you lay your hands on a receiver after 5 yards its PI, but its certainly not called everytime. They jostled, he got his hand in the facemask, but i dont think holmes had a great chance of catching that and i sincerely doubt the infraction was what caused that (despite sanchez's claim). Point being, the result of the penalty essentially gave the Jets the game, which, to me, was not justifiable considering the infraction...thats all, on plays that important, unless its incredibly egregious, keep your flag in your pocket. Plus, watching those two stills of Holmes grabbing the back of Hill's jersey is pretty annoying

If it's PI, it's PI. You don't pick and choose when to call it.

It amazes me people are trying to say that it wasn't a penalty, talk about blind homerism.

eddie mac
10-18-2010, 03:39 AM
Mistakes happen and he wasn't the only one who made a critical mistake yesterday.

The major suspects were Paxton, Moreno, Prater, Walton, Orton and Hill.

If you're gonna call one out, may as well call them all. Each in their own way cost us this game but that's football, take the loss on the chin and learn from it.

Dedhed
10-18-2010, 05:36 AM
It being the "correct call" and calling it in that situation, to me, are two different things.

This is completely bogus. If it's a penalty, which it was, it has to be called all the time.

Anyone arguing that the NFL should be more like the NBA in the way games are officiated is barking up the wrong tree.

strafen
10-18-2010, 07:01 AM
It being the "correct call" and calling it in that situation, to me, are two different things. Technically anytime you lay your hands on a receiver after 5 yards its PI, but its certainly not called everytime. They jostled, he got his hand in the facemask, but i dont think holmes had a great chance of catching that and i sincerely doubt the infraction was what caused that (despite sanchez's claim). Point being, the result of the penalty essentially gave the Jets the game, which, to me, was not justifiable considering the infraction...thats all, on plays that important, unless its incredibly egregious, keep your flag in your pocket. Plus, watching those two stills of Holmes grabbing the back of Hill's jersey is pretty annoying

They showed the replay over and over and over. Holmes despite the "infraction" almost caught the ball. Had not Hill held him and pushed him away by the face mask, he would've caught the ball...

strafen
10-18-2010, 07:02 AM
You dont think Mike Leach is laughing right now as he easily snaps that ball to convert the chip shot field goal. Also, let us not forget Walton for the penalties and F up snap when we needed that play to save our ass. Lot of F YOU to go around.

Oh, the longsnapper debate.
Where's Mike Leach when you need him? :thumbsup:

Dagmar
10-18-2010, 08:25 AM
You dont think Mike Leach is laughing right now as he easily snaps that ball to convert the chip shot field goal. Also, let us not forget Walton for the penalties and F up snap when we needed that play to save our ass. Lot of F YOU to go around.

Oh my god you are still ****ing crying about the change the new headcoach made at long snapper??

crawdad
10-18-2010, 08:30 AM
Orton only hit on 14 out of 34. That was the game and two missed field goals. We should have won this game but didn't, time to move on. It's Raiders week, let's kick some Raiders ass this Sunday!

Mediator12
10-18-2010, 09:10 AM
Yeah, it is real easy to blame Hill isn't it?

Anyone watching the rest of the NFL this year? How many teams are losing close games because of mistakes? I would say 65% are beating themselves right now and just 35% are taking it from them. Welcome to the NFL fan experience ;D

Br0nc0Buster
10-18-2010, 09:12 AM
Thompson was a pleasant surprise

I want more of the squid
more squid more squid!

MplsBronco
10-18-2010, 09:14 AM
I have (in the secondary too) but I'm not sure how this even comes into the discussion.

You're asking me if they're that close why don't they make a play on the ball and I gave a you an example of the Titans game on how the defender was caught out of position and went right at Gaffney in the endzone to save a TD.

I mean, bring some substance to the table instead of random comments that are of no relevance.

You are missing the point of the original topic which is making PI a 15 yard penaltly. In the Titans game is was 2nd and 20 from around the 50. PI called, should be 1st and 10 from the 35, not first and goal from the 1. See the point is with it being a spot foul the punishment does not fit the crime. It is an unfair rule and needs to be done away with.

As for yesterday, it was 4th and 6. Do you think Hill would ever want to intentionally get flagged for PI even if it was a 15 yard penalty? No because it extends the drive. And if he is so beat that he has to commit PI because he can't make a play on the ball most likely means he is also not in position to contact the WR because again he has been beaten so badly.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-18-2010, 09:15 AM
This is completely bogus. If it's a penalty, which it was, it has to be called all the time.

Anyone arguing that the NFL should be more like the NBA in the way games are officiated is barking up the wrong tree.

Fine, then you can probably call PI on half the dropbacks in the NFL. Holding too. And, in that case, it should have been setting, the offense player isnt allowed to grab the back of the jersey of the defender.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-18-2010, 09:16 AM
They showed the replay over and over and over. Holmes despite the "infraction" almost caught the ball. Had not Hill held him and pushed him away by the face mask, he would've caught the ball...

Bull, his momentum was carrying him away from the pass and the ball touches his hands like at his knees/feet...it would have been an incredible circus catch. I will go to my grave saying you cannot call that. I understand why people disagree, but you cannot call that

SonOfLe-loLang
10-18-2010, 09:18 AM
I have (in the secondary too) but I'm not sure how this even comes into the discussion.

You're asking me if they're that close why don't they make a play on the ball and I gave a you an example of the Titans game on how the defender was caught out of position and went right at Gaffney in the endzone to save a TD.

I mean, bring some substance to the table instead of random comments that are of no relevance.

The relevence is, and you should know this if you played, is that this type of thinking never comes into play. No defender wants to give up 15 yards and a first down and if they are badly beat, they probably don't have time to commit this penalty you discuss. Its a reaction game and your reaction is to make a play. This reminds me of those asisine arguments about how safeties will carry receivers out of bounds when they repealed the forced out of bounds/catch rule

strafen
10-18-2010, 09:48 AM
Oh my god you are still ****ing crying about the change the new headcoach made at long snapper??
Yeah, it was move that originally didn't have to be made, we didn't have to replace Mike Leach one of the NFL's best LS, but Mcdaniels wanted to bring his buddy from New England here.
LS are irrelevant until they **** up...
Yesterday, just confirmed it was a bad move from the get go.
Karma has a weird way of showing you off.

strafen
10-18-2010, 09:54 AM
How quickly do we forget...

We've had a similllar call go OUR way against Tennessee. I didn't see anybody calling out the refs for that one!

SonOfLe-loLang
10-18-2010, 10:10 AM
How quickly do we forget...

We've had a similllar call go OUR way against Tennessee. I didn't see anybody calling out the refs for that one!

i actually said we got lucky on that one too. But thats neither here nor there. Simply put, the result of the penalty (a jets win) wasn't worthy of the inadvertant infraction on a prayer ball thats probably not catchable. Yes, these are the rules of the NFL, PI is a spot foul, but refs arent robots and can discern when to throw that flag and when they shouldnt. That was a play where they shouldnt have. Or at least off setting since, it was clear, that Holmes tugged on the back of the Hill's jersey.

This isn't a homeristic viewpoint. Its pointing out a flaw in the NFL system.

MplsBronco
10-18-2010, 10:21 AM
How quickly do we forget...

We've had a similllar call go OUR way against Tennessee. I didn't see anybody calling out the refs for that one!

I brought this up and said I should have said it after the Titans game. Two wrongs don't make a right. The rule is BS.

As for the Titans game, it was 2nd and 20 from the 50. I would have taken a first down at the 35 and been happy with it. That would be FAIR.

TotallyScrewed
10-18-2010, 11:04 AM
The game was over when Denver decided that 3 points was enough to win the game.

Inkana7
10-18-2010, 11:28 AM
The game was over when Denver decided that 3 points was enough to win the game.

Well, it almost was...

Mediator12
10-18-2010, 11:43 AM
Bull, his momentum was carrying him away from the pass and the ball touches his hands like at his knees/feet...it would have been an incredible circus catch. I will go to my grave saying you cannot call that. I understand why people disagree, but you cannot call that

The problem is, you never know what is catchable really once the interference occurs. Did you see Garcon's catch last night against WAS? I thought no way he even touches that, yet he makes a spectacular play.

As for not calling that, it was blatant PI or a facemask. There was at least 2 different penalties to call there and the refs chose the PI. Seriously, it sucks, but it did happen and should have been called.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-18-2010, 11:47 AM
The problem is, you never know what is catchable really once the interference occurs. Did you see Garcon's catch last night against WAS? I thought no way he even touches that, yet he makes a spectacular play.

As for not calling that, it was blatant PI or a facemask. There was at least 2 different penalties to call there and the refs chose the PI. Seriously, it sucks, but it did happen and should have been called.

I always respect your opinion, always, but i just really dont agree. Was it PI, sure? If you called it in the second quarter, id bitch, but fine. But knowing what a 46 yard penalty means in that situation, the penalty just doesn't fit the infraction. Aside from Holmes tugging Hill's jersey, the facemask was incidental and the CHANCES of Holmes catching that ball (when his momentum was carrying the other way) was minimal. Possible, sure, but minimal. As said, theres holding on virtually every play in the NFL. The rule book says you also cant jostle for the ball when its in the air. But it happens. All the time. He should havekept his flag in his pocket on a 4th and 6 prayer that he probably wasnt catching anyway. His finger got caught in there and there was a small tug, sure, but ive seen worse.

cutthemdown
10-18-2010, 11:49 AM
Not Hills fault really. When a QB gets to run around, waiting to pull trigger, WR gets to make 2-3 even 4 moves, it's very hard for a dback to keep his body under control and make a play.

Broncos front 7 is a disaster. Mcdaniels hasn't fixed it at all. Old retreads aren't going to get it done. The OLB even with Doom gone is decent...but the DE are poor, the DT are old, and the inside linebackers don't play consistently physical.

cutthemdown
10-18-2010, 11:50 AM
I always respect your opinion, always, but i just really dont agree. Was it PI, sure? If you called it in the second quarter, id b****, but fine. But knowing what a 46 yard penalty means in that situation, the penalty just doesn't fit the infraction. Aside from Holmes tugging Hill's jersey, the facemask was incidental and the CHANCES of Holmes catching that ball (when his momentum was carrying the other way) was minimal. Possible, sure, but minimal. As said, theres holding on virtually every play in the NFL. The rule book says you also cant jostle for the ball when its in the air. But it happens. All the time. He should havekept his flag in his pocket on a 4th and 6 prayer that he probably wasnt catching anyway. His finger got caught in there and there was a small tug, sure, but ive seen worse.

Hmmm there is no rule about it fitting the situation. It was a blatant penalty and had to be called. Anyone who ever watched football knows that. You can't ever grab a guys facemase while he is trying to make a catch. PI every time, and in any year.

strafen
10-18-2010, 11:51 AM
Bull, his momentum was carrying him away from the pass and the ball touches his hands like at his knees/feet...it would have been an incredible circus catch. I will go to my grave saying you cannot call that. I understand why people disagree, but you cannot call thatThat was a catchable ball, bud.
Two questions you need to ask yourself...

1- Was it a catchable ball?
A- Yes it was
2- Did the interference by Hill prevent the catch?
A- Yes it did.

End of story man...

CEH
10-18-2010, 12:00 PM
Hmmm there is no rule about it fitting the situation. It was a blatant penalty and had to be called. Anyone who ever watched football knows that. You can't ever grab a guys facemase while he is trying to make a catch. PI every time, and in any year.

True . Is there even really any discussion after watching the replay. Can't grab a guys facemask . Had he not grabbed the facemask, I may argue it was a hail mary end of game type throw and you have to let both players play but the facemask just can't be ignored

SonOfLe-loLang
10-18-2010, 12:01 PM
That was a catchable ball, bud.
Two questions you need to ask yourself...

1- Was it a catchable ball?
A- Yes it was
2- Did the interference by Hill prevent the catch?
A- Yes it did.

End of story man...

It would have been an incredible catch. The penalty (a jets win) doesnt justify the crime. Robots dont call games, humans do. Know the situation, let them play a little. Hill cause his momentum to change, he was moving away from the ball.

Also, call off setting, nice jersey grab by Holmes.

ScottXray
10-18-2010, 12:05 PM
That phantom helmet to helmet call on Jim Leonhard was terrible. Leonhard left his feet and launched himself at the reciever which is EXACVTLY what the Refs consider excessive. He was trying to take the receiver out and ended up putting his shoulder into the head area.

While it may not have been helmet to helmet, it was a good call.

chawknz
10-18-2010, 12:06 PM
It was PI, period. Any non-objective person will tell you that.

Was it a terrible way to lose the game? Yes. Would I rather have had my best friend punch me in the face than to see that play happen? Yes. However, it was PI.

The Jets got called on offensive PI twice in one drive (The same drive?) which were HIGHLY questionable. If the Refs call those on the Jets, they've got to call it on us.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-18-2010, 12:09 PM
It was PI, period. Any non-objective person will tell you that.

Was it a terrible way to lose the game? Yes. Would I rather have had my best friend punch me in the face than to see that play happen? Yes. However, it was PI.

The Jets got called on offensive PI twice in one drive (The same drive?) which were HIGHLY questionable. If the Refs call those on the Jets, they've got to call it on us.

Im not saying that it wasnt necessarily PI, i just dont think it was the worst PI in the world (its not like PI gets called everytime there is) and considering the situation, it shouldnt have been called (IMO). The penalty doesnt justify the infraction...and im a big believer in understanding the situation. As said, theres holding on virtually every play in the NFL, its not always called.

Beantown Bronco
10-18-2010, 12:23 PM
Was it PI? Yup. But PI happens on every hail mary at the end of both halves. The only reason this one got called was because it was one on one right out there in the open. Had their been a few other guys involved in a crowded situation with pushing and shoving, you can bet that no flag would've been thrown.

ScottXray
10-18-2010, 12:26 PM
Im not saying that it wasnt necessarily PI, i just dont think it was the worst PI in the world (its not like PI gets called everytime there is) and considering the situation, it shouldnt have been called (IMO). The penalty doesnt justify the infraction...and im a big believer in understanding the situation. As said, theres holding on virtually every play in the NFL, its not always called.

It was PI ( should have been offsetting due to the grab on hill before that) but as it stands the call was technically correct.

It would be nice to see a rule change....spot foul yes , but inside two minutes make it a spot foul and 1st down UP to 15 yards. Over that it is 15 yards, and 1st down, clock reset.

That would allow teams that have the lead to not lose on a stupid officials call inside two minutes...either the opponent is already in position to win with their PLAY or they aren't. And if the defense keeps interfering then the clock keeps getting reset and the O gets another chance, but not rely on the officials to give them the game.

Everyone KNEW that the Jets would score once they got the ball on the 2. Sure the D could have stopped them but the chances of that were slim to none.

BigPlayShay
10-18-2010, 12:30 PM
It would be nice to see a rule change....spot foul yes , but inside two minutes make it a spot foul and 1st down UP to 15 yards. Over that it is 15 yards, and 1st down, clock reset.



I still think the perfect solution is that inside 2 minutes of a half, when teams are going Hail Mary, or trying to draw a penalty, let the booth review the PI call.

Smiling Assassin27
10-18-2010, 12:37 PM
1. Was it a penalty or not? Anyone with eyes can see that fingers caught in facemasks is a penalty. Ball was in the air when it occurred and so PI is the call, not holding or facemask. Dude was jostling and reached back to gain balance and also locate the WR. His fingers get tide up in the facemask incidentally but enough to turn the guy's head. Ask Vonnie Holliday in Super Bowl 32 if they'll cut you a break for a head turn.

2. Consistency demands that call. In Tennessee, Gaffney was interfered very late in the game after Orton just heaved it up, much like Sanchez did. It was interference on Hope, just like it was PI on Hill. Dumb luck and finger placement, but a penalty nonetheless. Could the ref have called OPI? Yes. They'd already called 3 on the day, so we know they were looking for it. But he didn't. We take our jagged little pill and we move on.

3. We just might see these guys again and I feel confident we can not only hang with 'em, but we can beat 'em with our A-squad. Sanchez is as overrated as they come and their wideouts are as prissy as they come. But if we keep up with this penalty bull****, we won't beat even the Raiders this weekend. Penalties and missed opportunities continue to plague us, not the refs. We've got youth in many key positions, so they'd better take the diapers off or we're headed for another disappointing, albeit improved year.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-18-2010, 12:52 PM
It was PI ( should have been offsetting due to the grab on hill before that) but as it stands the call was technically correct.

It would be nice to see a rule change....spot foul yes , but inside two minutes make it a spot foul and 1st down UP to 15 yards. Over that it is 15 yards, and 1st down, clock reset.

That would allow teams that have the lead to not lose on a stupid officials call inside two minutes...either the opponent is already in position to win with their PLAY or they aren't. And if the defense keeps interfering then the clock keeps getting reset and the O gets another chance, but not rely on the officials to give them the game.

Everyone KNEW that the Jets would score once they got the ball on the 2. Sure the D could have stopped them but the chances of that were slim to none.

Again, im not arguing whether it was or wasnt PI...sure, i can see the call, i just didnt think it warrented the flag in that situation...but im a believer that in certain situations, you let the players play. On a 4th and 6 prayer, that wasnt worthy of a46 yard penalty and a win.

crawdad
10-18-2010, 12:57 PM
Like I said before, the game is over, let's move on to the Raiders. This is Raiders week, beat the crap out of the Raiders!

Smiling Assassin27
10-18-2010, 01:54 PM
I still think the perfect solution is that inside 2 minutes of a half, when teams are going Hail Mary, or trying to draw a penalty, let the booth review the PI call.

The problem is that there's contact on EVERY single one of those plays, so it'd still be a judgment call on behalf of the booth or the ref, whichever you decide to let make the final decision.

The ref had a perfect vantage point yesterday and made the call. The timing of the call can't be improved by throwing it up to the booth on that play, can it?

ScottXray
10-18-2010, 02:04 PM
The ref was in good position yes...but if he was in such a good position why didn't he see the tug on Hills jersey? Hill was turned back towards the ball and both players were in position to catch the ball. That tug was just as damaging to the defender as the facemask tug was to the reciever. Holmes almost caught the ball, but Hill also had a chance to do so until Holmes pulled him away. Neither player was innocent.

It sucks! we lost! Time to move on to the Raiduhs.

LetsGoBroncos
10-18-2010, 02:05 PM
Again, im not arguing whether it was or wasnt PI...sure, i can see the call, i just didnt think it warrented the flag in that situation...but im a believer that in certain situations, you let the players play. On a 4th and 6 prayer, that wasnt worthy of a46 yard penalty and a win.

I COMPLETELY agree with you. I have been saying when you take out the situation of it being a fourth down hail mary the call could go either way. The issue is should they have called it since it is a call that could go either way given the situation? Whether it is worthy of a 46 yard penalty???? That is not up to the refs to decide. They just have to decide if they should call PI or not in that situation.

Rabb
10-18-2010, 02:08 PM
PI or not, if we take care of business when we had offensive opportunities earlier...it doesn't matter

next

Mediator12
10-18-2010, 02:08 PM
I always respect your opinion, always, but i just really dont agree. Was it PI, sure? If you called it in the second quarter, id b****, but fine. But knowing what a 46 yard penalty means in that situation, the penalty just doesn't fit the infraction. Aside from Holmes tugging Hill's jersey, the facemask was incidental and the CHANCES of Holmes catching that ball (when his momentum was carrying the other way) was minimal. Possible, sure, but minimal. As said, theres holding on virtually every play in the NFL. The rule book says you also cant jostle for the ball when its in the air. But it happens. All the time. He should havekept his flag in his pocket on a 4th and 6 prayer that he probably wasnt catching anyway. His finger got caught in there and there was a small tug, sure, but ive seen worse.

The problem is that it was a penalty on the first or last play of the game. Alex Barron held Orakpo in WAS's win that negated a winning TD for DAL. It is not like the phantom contact on Brandon Flowers versus Andre Johnson yesterday where it was actually Johnson who Interferred with Flowers. KC fans have all kinds of reason to gripe on that call alone, even though it was not the game winning play.

I am sorry you think penalties should be situational, they never should be. However, I also do not see how you think any of that play was legal from Hill. I also believe Hill is being made into an easy scapegoat, because its a real easy mistake to see. What they miss is all the other players who allowed the play to even get to Holmes. They forget about the other 10 guys who did not get the job done on that play and blame Hill for having coverage for over 5 seconds deep on a player like Holmes.

oubronco
10-18-2010, 02:08 PM
I COMPLETELY agree with you. I have been saying when you take out the situation of it being a fourth down hail mary the call could go either way. The issue is should they have called it since it is a call that could go either way given the situation? Whether it is worthy of a 46 yard penalty???? That is not up to the refs to decide. They just have to decide if they should call PI or not in that situation.

It was called becuase of the facemask and that's what is puzzling to me it should've been a 15yd penalty but it's done time to move on

oubronco
10-18-2010, 02:10 PM
PI or not, if we take care of business when we had offensive opportunities earlier...it doesn't matter

next

Exactly

gyldenlove
10-18-2010, 02:11 PM
Again, im not arguing whether it was or wasnt PI...sure, i can see the call, i just didnt think it warrented the flag in that situation...but im a believer that in certain situations, you let the players play. On a 4th and 6 prayer, that wasnt worthy of a46 yard penalty and a win.

Unfortunately there is no proportionality clause build into the NFL rulebook. Offensive holding is always 10 yards, regardless if you just get into a bit of a bear hug, or if you yank someone 10 feet backwards by their jersey.

A weak penalty gives the same punishment as a huge penalty. If a pass rusher runs into the QB well after he has thrown the ball, and touches his helmet however softly without any violence or anything, it is a roughing the passer call and it is the same call if you fly into the QBs knees and knock him out for the season and maybe end his career. It is a weakness with the absolute penalties used, but it is a necesity of the game, if you had to have trials and work out how many yards any given hold or offside or false start should be penalised by the game would take for ever.

gyldenlove
10-18-2010, 02:15 PM
The problem is that it was a penalty on the first or last play of the game. Alex Barron held Orakpo in WAS's win that negated a winning TD for DAL. It is not like the phantom contact on Brandon Flowers versus Andre Johnson yesterday where it was actually Johnson who Interferred with Flowers. KC fans have all kinds of reason to gripe on that call alone, even though it was not the game winning play.

I am sorry you think penalties should be situational, they never should be. However, I also do not see how you think any of that play was legal from Hill. I also believe Hill is being made into an easy scapegoat, because its a real easy mistake to see. What they miss is all the other players who allowed the play to even get to Holmes. They forget about the other 10 guys who did not get the job done on that play and blame Hill for having coverage for over 5 seconds deep on a player like Holmes.

The way I see that play it looks like a zone defense to me, Cox has Holmes covered when he makes his first cut to the outside, then releases him as he goes deep and Hill picks him up, that looks like it is supposed to happen. What is also supposed to happen is that Sanchez has to be under some kind of pressure, zone coverage never works without pressure, and that didn't happen. Ultimately given our pass rush situation, should we call a pretty vanilla zone defense in that key situation? who knows. What is known is that it is not a super well thrown ball, it is to the inside and if Hill reacts faster to Holmes adjusting to the ball (and falling) he can swat it away, as it stands he reacts too slowly and instead of taking his chances on holmes not making the catch, he reaches back and commits a stupid penalty right in front of the ref.

Mediator12
10-18-2010, 02:28 PM
The way I see that play it looks like a zone defense to me, Cox has Holmes covered when he makes his first cut to the outside, then releases him as he goes deep and Hill picks him up, that looks like it is supposed to happen. What is also supposed to happen is that Sanchez has to be under some kind of pressure, zone coverage never works without pressure, and that didn't happen. Ultimately given our pass rush situation, should we call a pretty vanilla zone defense in that key situation? who knows. What is known is that it is not a super well thrown ball, it is to the inside and if Hill reacts faster to Holmes adjusting to the ball (and falling) he can swat it away, as it stands he reacts too slowly and instead of taking his chances on holmes not making the catch, he reaches back and commits a stupid penalty right in front of the ref.

That is just about it. The real problem was calling a play on fourth and 6 that only had marginal pressure on Sanchez and required a safety of Hill's caliber to cover a WR like Holmes deep for over five seconds. I am surprised that Hill still had decent coverage in that Situation and that Holmes was not wide open for the TD. The movement of sanchez so easily out of the pocket also changed the launch angle of the throw and negated any inside out coverage he had going deep. He had to cover the sideline coming hard from the inside and the ball ended up being thrown to the inside of the player.

Bronco Yoda
10-18-2010, 02:31 PM
The PI rule needs to be changed. A cap needs to be placed on it. No way should there be a possibility of a 60+ yard penalty in a game. Yards need to be earned.

Holding penalties for a running play shouldn't be 10 yards. You've basically killed a drive with a call that could be argued to be made on just about every play.

15 yards for accidentally touching a face mask?

Penalties for a little bit of celebrating?

Penalties....Penalties....Penalties....

Just let them play the ****ing game!


Games were much more entertaining 15-20+ years ago to watch. JMO

The MVPlaya
10-18-2010, 03:30 PM
You are missing the point of the original topic which is making PI a 15 yard penaltly. In the Titans game is was 2nd and 20 from around the 50. PI called, should be 1st and 10 from the 35, not first and goal from the 1. See the point is with it being a spot foul the punishment does not fit the crime. It is an unfair rule and needs to be done away with.


There is 2 sides of the argument, like I said. You said the punishment does not fit the crime? How do you decipher that? Why 15 yards? Why not 20? Why not 25 yards? How do you determine what fits the crime fairly?

On the Gaffney play, regardless if its 2nd and 20 (this is of no relevance again of a penalty), if the safety illegally prevents your WR from catching the ball, in which what would be a 40-50 yard TOUCHDOWN that would give you the lead... yet it turns into a 15 yard penalty, how is THAT fair? The safety did NOT even make a play on the ball or look at where it was.


And if he is so beat that he has to commit PI because he can't make a play on the ball most likely means he is also not in position to contact the WR because again he has been beaten so badly.

We just talked about a situation in which the DB was beat but he had to commit a penalty to stop the play, so I'm not sure why you're repeating this.

The MVPlaya
10-18-2010, 03:43 PM
The relevence is, and you should know this if you played, is that this type of thinking never comes into play. No defender wants to give up 15 yards and a first down and if they are badly beat, they probably don't have time to commit this penalty you discuss. Its a reaction game and your reaction is to make a play. This reminds me of those asisine arguments about how safeties will carry receivers out of bounds when they repealed the forced out of bounds/catch rule

REGARDLESS if he's INTENTIONALLY or ACCIDENTALLY committing the penalty, it doesn't change the fact that he still commits it. It doesn't matter if the player's "type of thinking" comes into play, the foul still happens.

You're point of argument is if it's intentional or accidental at its core right now.

My original point was that ok, if the rule turns back to 15 yard it can turn into an intentional advantage for the defense. A DB is beat or a Safety is help... if you've played football you'd know there are split second actions, such as turning your head looking for the ball, that will slow you down just enough to prevent you from making the play... and say it's a short ball or what have you... the defensive player can just run at the WR and create a foul. And what if this is 50 yards down field? Is THIS fair?

This is what happened with the Gaffney play. The offense got off a throw that could have been a TD for 40 50 yards, but now since the defense commits and ILLEGAL play to stop that, it's only a 15 yard penalty.

How is that FAIR to the offense?

The bigger argument is if the foul is occurring or not though, so don't get stuck on the intentional and accidental arguments.

The MVPlaya
10-18-2010, 03:47 PM
And just for the record, I'm not saying that the rule is perfect... but I don't think the 15 yard penalty rule is the answer either as it sways the advantage to the defense just as the current one does for the offense.

I still don't see why they don't have referees watch replays from a booth and get the correct call in. Refs already huddle up to talk about fouls as it is, having someone watch it on a screen where they can watch the play from the correct angle then calling the play down to the field ref would be a much more accurate way of officiating a game.

gyldenlove
10-18-2010, 04:24 PM
REGARDLESS if he's INTENTIONALLY or ACCIDENTALLY committing the penalty, it doesn't change the fact that he still commits it. It doesn't matter if the player's "type of thinking" comes into play, the foul still happens.

You're point of argument is if it's intentional or accidental at its core right now.

My original point was that ok, if the rule turns back to 15 yard it can turn into an intentional advantage for the defense. A DB is beat or a Safety is help... if you've played football you'd know there are split second actions, such as turning your head looking for the ball, that will slow you down just enough to prevent you from making the play... and say it's a short ball or what have you... the defensive player can just run at the WR and create a foul. And what if this is 50 yards down field? Is THIS fair?

This is what happened with the Gaffney play. The offense got off a throw that could have been a TD for 40 50 yards, but now since the defense commits and ILLEGAL play to stop that, it's only a 15 yard penalty.

How is that FAIR to the offense?

The bigger argument is if the foul is occurring or not though, so don't get stuck on the intentional and accidental arguments.

Just like the facemask penalty used to be, pass interference is one of the few penalties that have an allowance for accidental contact. If a reciever is brought down due to the defender tripping and making in contact with the reciever or the feet of the defender and reciever making accidental contact causing the reciever to trip, no pass interference will be called.

If contact is accidental and not aimed at preventing the opposing player from recieving the ball or gaining an advantage in getting to the ball, it is not pass interference.

Intend is very crucial.

In this case, Hill makes an intentional motion with his hand that causes him to get a hold of Holmes helmet, the intend of the motion may not have been to catch the helmet, but the motion was intentional, and as such not permissible.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-18-2010, 04:29 PM
Just like the facemask penalty used to be, pass interference is one of the few penalties that have an allowance for accidental contact. If a reciever is brought down due to the defender tripping and making in contact with the reciever or the feet of the defender and reciever making accidental contact causing the reciever to trip, no pass interference will be called.

If contact is accidental and not aimed at preventing the opposing player from recieving the ball or gaining an advantage in getting to the ball, it is not pass interference.

Intend is very crucial.

In this case, Hill makes an intentional motion with his hand that causes him to get a hold of Holmes helmet, the intend of the motion may not have been to catch the helmet, but the motion was intentional, and as such not permissible.


but honestly, thats crap. He was motioning back to feel him, not push him...which happens all the time. Also, i dont know if Holmes grabbing of the jersey turned him at all, but it probably didnt help. It is what it is, its over, but ill go to my grave saying that even if its PI (not denying its not) it wasnt major PI and shouldnt have been called in that situation. I've heard all the arguments, its just the way i feel.

The MVPlaya
10-18-2010, 04:48 PM
but honestly, thats crap. He was motioning back to feel him, not push him...which happens all the time. Also, i dont know if Holmes grabbing of the jersey turned him at all, but it probably didnt help. It is what it is, its over, but ill go to my grave saying that even if its PI (not denying its not) it wasnt major PI and shouldnt have been called in that situation. I've heard all the arguments, its just the way i feel.

I think that's fair.

I mean, in the NBA they have a new "philosophy" that's set in where they won't call tick tack fouls at the end of close games, and even last shots...

bowtown
10-18-2010, 05:09 PM
I think that's fair.

I mean, in the NBA they have a new "philosophy" that's set in where they won't call tick tack fouls at the end of close games, and even last shots...

That actually depends on how much money that particular ref has on the game.