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MABroncoFan
10-14-2010, 01:40 PM
rotoworld...

Knowshon Moreno (hamstring) returned to the practice field on Thursday.

Moreno indicated that he's feeling good, but it's still too early to guarantee that he'll play on Sunday. He'll likely be limited on Thursday, and Friday's participation will depend on the hamstring's response to the workout. The Jets boast the league's stingiest defense in fantasy points allowed to opposing backs, so Moreno is not a suggested start regardless.
Source: Andrew Mason on Twitter



Also, DT didn't practice today.

DarkHorse30
10-14-2010, 02:12 PM
don't rush a hamstring back into the teeth of the jets defense. Let Maroney earn his keep. I hope DT doesn't return anymore kicks.

I enjoyed this MHR take on Bronco running problems. http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/10/13/1748335/where-have-we-been-running-the-rushing-game-by-play-direction

Raise your hand if you think there is not a problem with Denver's run game . . . I'll wait for the laughter and snickering to subside before I continue. The Broncos have definitely struggled with the run through the first five games. We have watched the rushing totals plummet across four weeks -- 89 yards, then 65, then 47, and then 19 -- before finally taking a step upwards -- 39 against Baltimore. But then, I'm not telling you anything you didn't already know, am I?

Many different reasons have been advanced -- from injuries, to inexperience, to wrong personnel, to wrong coaches, to poor play calling. Certainly the results speak for themselves. There have been many solutions proposed in response to the situation, from bringing in new o-linemen/running backs, to changing the playbook, to firing coaches. Wouldn't it be nice to have a crystal ball that would show the best path to follow?

Last week, we took a look at how many times the Broncos have run on each of the downs and in each of the quarters. This week, there are a couple of things that might be worth considering as we ponder the future of Denver's running game. Take a look after the jump.



Experience is not to be taken lightly

In 2009, NFL.com began posting a statistics page called "Offensive Line." This thumbnail sketch of the 32 offensive lines looks at a number of statistics:

1)Experience. This is the total career starts for the two guards, two tackles and center on the team with the most starts in the current season.

2)Attempts, Yards, Average. These three are self-explanatory: the number of rushing attempts, yards amassed and the average yards per carry.

3)Touchdowns. Touchdowns scored on running plays.

4)First Downs. The number of first downs achieved by runs.

5)Negative Yardage. Rushes that resulted in negative yardage.

6)Ten Yard runs. Rushes that resulted in a gain of 10 or more yards.

7)Power. This reflects the percentage of runs on 3rd or 4th down with 2 or less yards to go that resulted in a first down or a touchdown. This stat also includes those runs that were 1st or 2nd down and goal to go from within the opponent's 2-yard line.

When we compare Denver's offensive line to the rest of the league, several things leap out at us.

First, Denver's experience rating is 95 combined starts.
This is dead last in the NFL for 2010. The next higher team (San Francisco) has 124 combined starts -- or 30% more than the Broncos' line. The league average for combined starts is 276. Nineteen teams are above this. Denver is 181 games below this average.

Think about this for a moment, in the first five games, only Clady and Walton have started all five games at the same position. Daniels and Hochstein have both started at left guard (Daniels 4 times, Hochstein 1). Kuper and Hochstein have both started at right guard (Kuper 4, Hochstein 1). Beadles and Harris have both started at right tackle (Beadles 3, Harris 2). The Broncos have not started the same five men on the offensive line two games in a row. The impact of this cannot be stressed enough. From what I've read, the ability of the offensive line to function with a single mind is crucial to the success of the running game. That ability comes through practice and game experience. The Broncos' line does not have it, at this point in time.

Second, Denver ranks 20th (114) in rushing attempts, 32nd (259) in yards, 32nd (2.3) in yards per carry, and tied for 13th (3) in touchdowns.
The teams immediately on either side of the Broncos, in terms of attempts (New Orleans 116 and Detroit 113) have 119 and 151 more yards respectively, and yards per carry averages that are 1.0 and 1.3 yards better than Denver's. Denver has two more touchdowns than New Orleans and one less than Detroit. It is interesting to note that the Saints have 240 combined starts and the Lions have 393.

It is also interesting to note that the next least experienced team (San Francisco - 124 combined starts) has nine fewer rushing attempts but 130 more yards, and an average that is 1.4 yards/carry better. Denver has one more touchdown than San Francisco.

Third, the direction of the runs matter (Running to the Left)
Here is a breakdown of the Broncos' runs to the left side through the first five games:

....this is where my cutting and pasting goes awry....click the link above for the whole ****teree

enjolras
10-14-2010, 02:33 PM
Are kick returners more often injured on average? I'd hate to see us give up those really important yards (and the chance to put the ball in the hands of a dynamic play-maker)...

Popps
10-14-2010, 03:22 PM
Really easy to say this in hindsight, but I did feel a little uneasy with DT returning kicks. He just looked to big and ran too straight. Did a nice job, but just looked like a brutal hit waiting to happen, and then it did.

TheChamp24
10-14-2010, 03:28 PM
See, my view is you put the guy back there to return kicks/punts that gives you the best shot at returning it for a touchdown. Did you guys know at OU Adrian Peterson returned kicks some of the time there?
Now, IMO, Thomas is extremely fast, but he's too big to be back there. Eddie Royal is really the perfect fit back there, a guy who has extreme elusiveness, agility to go with speed.

outdoor_miner
10-14-2010, 03:36 PM
DT looked so amazingly fast returning kicks... Like he could score a touchdown each time he got moving. I personally think it's worth it, but that WAS such a violent hit he took. Tough call.

Los Broncos
10-14-2010, 03:39 PM
Really easy to say this in hindsight, but I did feel a little uneasy with DT returning kicks. He just looked to big and ran too straight. Did a nice job, but just looked like a brutal hit waiting to happen, and then it did.

I think whoever was in front of him on that return told him not too or wavied him off, he went anyways.

MABroncoFan
10-14-2010, 03:55 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/injury-report.html

Knowshon had a limited practice today. Andre Brown listed as full participant, when yesterday they said he was already declared out.

oubronco
10-14-2010, 04:54 PM
I liked the way DT took the ball and went straight ahead and got positive yards none of this run sideways and then backwards

DarkHorse30
10-14-2010, 07:03 PM
I liked the way DT took the ball and went straight ahead and got positive yards none of this run sideways and then backwards

....right before he met an oncoming brain chill. The guy is not KR material. Disappointed in JM for fitting a future #1WR with another injury potentiality. Let the guy heal and call some freakin' offense that doesn't suck.

WolfpackGuy
10-14-2010, 07:09 PM
We were in the same endzone except on the other side of the goalposts when Thomas brought it out.

I knew he was out of the game after that shot.

gyldenlove
10-14-2010, 07:31 PM
Are kick returners more often injured on average? I'd hate to see us give up those really important yards (and the chance to put the ball in the hands of a dynamic play-maker)...

I think per play a kick returner is more likely to be injured than say a WR, but per game I think it is pretty even, given of course that a starting WR can expect 50-70 plays per game and a kick returner depending on the quality of the defense can expect something like 5.

Hulamau
10-14-2010, 07:49 PM
....right before he met an oncoming brain chill. The guy is not KR material. Disappointed in JM for fitting a future #1WR with another injury potentiality. Let the guy heal and call some freakin' offense that doesn't suck.

That is my feeling too. You don't put your number 1 draft pick outon kamakazi duties, unless he happens to be a career return man, and in fact DT has never done it since Pop warner!

I know he is fast as **** and big and strong but shear physics argues against this being a good idea. At his height and weight once he is at full speed which is one or two steps its like and immovable force hitting another freight train in the form of two 260lb+ scrub ST cannon fodder LBers sent down to decapitate him!. The odds of a serious injury go up exponentially with the increase in mass and velocity.

Not having any real experience in that role and us suddenly being down 14-0 he was dying to make a play and after hesitating a fatal second took off from 6 yard deep in the endzone ... NOT a good idea!

That little hesitation allowed the Ravens coverage team to lock and load and meet him at full speed inside the 20 and we're lucky we didn't lose him for the season. AS it is he apparently got his bell really rung and there are only so many of those a player can take before he gets concussion prone and has a shortened career!

Eddie can do it as he has that slippery elusiveness as well as can turn on the Jets on a dime to avoid taking such a brutal hit. But DT is just a bit too big and fast to be in that role for both his and our own good !! .... I really hope Josh got that one out of his system ...

Another hit or three like in short order could easily make a guy gun shy before he even gets his career going,

Hulamau
10-14-2010, 07:53 PM
I think per play a kick returner is more likely to be injured than say a WR, but per game I think it is pretty even, given of course that a starting WR can expect 50-70 plays per game and a kick returner depending on the quality of the defense can expect something like 5.

Yeah so will double his odds by having him do both at his size and speed while we really need what he can bring most in the Passing game and around the red zone! Put Squid out there and tell him to run for daylight!

Pony Boy
10-14-2010, 08:06 PM
Really easy to say this in hindsight, but I did feel a little uneasy with DT returning kicks. He just looked to big and ran too straight. Did a nice job, but just looked like a brutal hit waiting to happen, and then it did.

Agreed.....I think it's time to unleash Syd'Quan, I don't understand why we are setting on some of these young guys? It time to see if they can play....

gunns
10-14-2010, 08:25 PM
Very interesting article. The unity our offensive line had in the SB years was a catalyst to success. This line is much more inexperienced and that was interesting just how inexperienced compared to the rest of the league and with the injuries it's understandable why we can't get unity among them. I also liked that he put in there that our RB's have not risen to the occasion. All of it is a recipe for disaster in the running game.

But have to disagree with the 2nd post. Get Maroney the **** out of town.

DarkHorse30
10-14-2010, 09:08 PM
Yeah so will double his odds by having him do both at his size and speed while we really need what he can bring most in the Passing game and around the red zone! Put Squid out there and tell him to run for daylight!

Bingo. Squid is slippery, let him be the xman

Taco John
10-15-2010, 12:46 AM
Really easy to say this in hindsight, but I did feel a little uneasy with DT returning kicks. He just looked to big and ran too straight. Did a nice job, but just looked like a brutal hit waiting to happen, and then it did.

I always felt the same way about Rod, but he somehow made it work.

footstepsfrom#27
10-15-2010, 01:27 AM
I enjoyed this MHR take on Bronco running problems. http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/10/13/1748335/where-have-we-been-running-the-rushing-game-by-play-direction
What I get from this breakdown more than anything is that there is nowhere to go but up. Experience and the key injuries are what is hampering these guys most, so we can expect them to improve considerably as time goes on. It's probably not happening till next season but nobody can say the talent isn't there on the line already. I wish they'd just bench the entire group that's hurt and let them heal properly till they play again.

Drek
10-15-2010, 04:21 AM
Yeah so will double his odds by having him do both at his size and speed while we really need what he can bring most in the Passing game and around the red zone! Put Squid out there and tell him to run for daylight!

If you go by a strictly "per play on the field" outlook its completely flawed because kick returners get the ball and therefore must get tackled (or score) on every play. WRs don't do that.

If one player was to get 5 touches at KR and another was to get 5 receptions at WR the frequency of injuries wouldn't be too far off. All putting Thomas in at KR does is give him another way to get more touches and help the team.

Agreed.....I think it's time to unleash Syd'Quan, I don't understand why we are setting on some of these young guys? It time to see if they can play....

Probably a combination of having something working with Thomas from week 4 and a 45 man roster limit. Thompson has only been active for two games this season.

Sassy
10-15-2010, 10:06 AM
Denver Broncos McDaniels said Knowshon Moreno and Demaryius Thomas will be at practice today.

bronclvr
10-15-2010, 10:09 AM
Yay!

MABroncoFan
10-15-2010, 10:21 AM
rotoworld update... looks like we're just about full strength on offense, and far from it on defense.


Coach Josh McDaniels conceded that Demaryius Thomas (head/neck) is unlikely to handle kickoff returns on Sunday.

Thomas finally passed all of his baseline tests and will return to practice Friday. He has a chance to play against the Jets, but only in a minor role. Expect Eddie Royal to handle kickoff returns.
Source: Andrew Mason on Twitter



Coach Josh McDaniels indicated that Knowshon Moreno (hamstring) will practice again on Friday.

Demaryius Thomas (neck) is also expected to make his first appearance of the week. Moreno came out of Thursday's practice "fine" and appears to have a legit chance to start against the Jets on Sunday. Check back later in the day for the Broncos' official injury report.
Source: Denver Broncos on Twitter
Related: Demaryius Thomas

Sassy
10-15-2010, 10:30 AM
Coach McDaniels said safety Kyle McCarthy might be brought up from the practice squad this afternoon.

outdoor_miner
10-15-2010, 10:46 AM
Thomas finally passed all of his baseline tests and will return to practice Friday. He has a chance to play against the Jets, but only in a minor role.

I'm hoping this is just rotoworld's spin. I love watching Thomas play.

Dagmar
10-15-2010, 10:54 AM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/injury-report.html

Knowshon had a limited practice today. Andre Brown listed as full participant, when yesterday they said he was already declared out.

Brown was out on Wednesday with an illness. Rotoworld ran with it as him being out for week 6.

The Joker
10-15-2010, 11:22 AM
Will be nice having them back.

I know people are bummed about all the injuries on D, but if we can get the running game going just to the point where it's not an absolute embarrass then we'll have an offense that can win some shootouts IMO.

TomServo
10-16-2010, 02:52 AM
O yay moreno is back. his 2.8 yards per carry and his 55 yards per game YAY.
behind (statiscally)that one guy Hillis and that bum Forte who plays with that other bum qb. our no. 12 pick that hasnt broken a run more than the phone kiosk guy did (moreno 36 yard long run) tatum bell 37 yard run out of the kiosk.
but hes back -Maybe- yay

Doggcow
10-16-2010, 03:24 AM
Side note -

Thomas just had 5 Catches, 217 yards and 2 TD
Moreno had 2 Rushes for 48 Yds and 2 TD's

In madden for me vs the raiders online.

TheChamp24
10-16-2010, 08:32 AM
Side note -

Thomas just had 5 Catches, 217 yards and 2 TD
Moreno had 2 Rushes for 48 Yds and 2 TD's

In madden for me vs the raiders online.

You heard him boys! Moreno and Thomas will enter BEAST mode this Sunday!

broncswin
10-16-2010, 09:24 AM
O yay moreno is back. his 2.8 yards per carry and his 55 yards per game YAY.
behind (statiscally)that one guy Hillis and that bum Forte who plays with that other bum qb. our no. 12 pick that hasnt broken a run more than the phone kiosk guy did (moreno 36 yard long run) tatum bell 37 yard run out of the kiosk.
but hes back -Maybe- yay

Oh wow...I was excited about this thread, until I read your post...BOO!thwack:loser::nutkick

The MVPlaya
10-16-2010, 09:30 AM
O yay moreno is back. his 2.8 yards per carry and his 55 yards per game YAY.
behind (statiscally)that one guy Hillis and that bum Forte who plays with that other bum qb. our no. 12 pick that hasnt broken a run more than the phone kiosk guy did (moreno 36 yard long run) tatum bell 37 yard run out of the kiosk.
but hes back -Maybe- yay

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/1760/vomit2.gif

TheReverend
10-16-2010, 10:52 AM
Side note -

Thomas just had 5 Catches, 217 yards and 2 TD
Moreno had 2 Rushes for 48 Yds and 2 TD's

In madden for me vs the raiders online.

Your avatar cracked me up pretty good

Doggcow
10-16-2010, 02:01 PM
Your avatar cracked me up pretty good

Those are my boys in fantasy. Well I dont have portis anymore and Greene is a ****up. But yeah.

BlaK-Argentina
10-16-2010, 05:30 PM
O yay moreno is back. his 2.8 yards per carry and his 55 yards per game YAY.
behind (statiscally)that one guy Hillis and that bum Forte who plays with that other bum qb. our no. 12 pick that hasnt broken a run more than the phone kiosk guy did (moreno 36 yard long run) tatum bell 37 yard run out of the kiosk.
but hes back -Maybe- yay

Yeah our other RB's sure tore it up behind this same OL. Right? Right?

Holy ****.

Dagmar
10-16-2010, 05:54 PM
O yay moreno is back. his 2.8 yards per carry and his 55 yards per game YAY.
behind (statiscally)that one guy Hillis and that bum Forte who plays with that other bum qb. our no. 12 pick that hasnt broken a run more than the phone kiosk guy did (moreno 36 yard long run) tatum bell 37 yard run out of the kiosk.
but hes back -Maybe- yay

Utter moron. Moreno had 118 yards total against Seattle. Crap though.

He had a 4.5 average against the Jaguars too.

strafen
10-16-2010, 09:30 PM
Really easy to say this in hindsight, but I did feel a little uneasy with DT returning kicks. He just looked to big and ran too straight. Did a nice job, but just looked like a brutal hit waiting to happen, and then it did.In hindsight or not, I didn't think DT had any business returning kicks.
I understand we're looking for a homerun hitter at this point, but the risk is too great to take.
DT is a guy coming off a nasty foot injury that may not still be 100% healed.
I thought it was a questionable move...

Tombstone RJ
10-16-2010, 09:44 PM
rotoworld...

Knowshon Moreno (hamstring) returned to the practice field on Thursday.

Moreno indicated that he's feeling good, but it's still too early to guarantee that he'll play on Sunday. He'll likely be limited on Thursday, and Friday's participation will depend on the hamstring's response to the workout. The Jets boast the league's stingiest defense in fantasy points allowed to opposing backs, so Moreno is not a suggested start regardless.
Source: Andrew Mason on Twitter



Also, DT didn't practice today.

I'm not sure why McD is playing russian roulette with the offensive line, rotate here, rotate there, oooops major hole in head... whatever... these offense line guys have got to gell. get the motherfuggineatmy****asshatrunning going... wheres the tylenol!

TomServo
10-17-2010, 12:41 AM
Utter moron. Moreno had 118 yards total against Seattle. Crap though.

He had a 4.5 average against the Jaguars too.

so we can count morenos total yards and discount hillis's totals? rushing stats say moreno gains 2.8 yards per carry and 55.5 yards per game when he is handed the ball.
rushing, thats what he was picked in the 12 spot for to move the chains and keep secondarys close to the line of scrimmage. marion barber has better numbers than moreno. is barber still employed?
Moron indeed

TomServo
10-17-2010, 12:47 AM
and i had to go to the second page of this years nfl stats to even get morenos #s. that scrub mcD didnt want is #14.

TomServo
10-17-2010, 12:55 AM
Oh wow...I was excited about this thread, until I read your post...BOO!thwack:loser::nutkick

didnt mean to harsh your buzz. but really, getting excited about knowshon moreno? i used to really be excited about our #12 pick but damn, how many games and he hasnt run around or over anyone?

bowtown
10-17-2010, 07:48 AM
How's that post count coming along cheese dick?