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View Full Version : Football Outsiders Praise for Orton and Lloyd


mkporter
10-12-2010, 10:59 AM
Some more positive analysis on Lloyd and Orton, from footballoutsiders.com. Much more at the link, too much to cut and paste:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/quick-reads/2010/week-5-quick-reads


Through five games in Denver, something downright remarkable has happened. Brandon Lloyd is playing like a NFL wide receiver. A good one. A really good one.

1. Kyle Orton DEN
Lloyd's quarterback finished first in this week's ratings by virtue of avoiding most anything resembling a negative play. He was 14-of-20 on first down against the Ravens' excellent pass defense, including two 40+ yard touchdown passes to Lloyd. (Lloyd also had a 31-yard defensive pass interference penalty, but otherwise, he caught three of the 12 remaining passes thrown to him for 49 yards. That lack of efficiency caused him to finish sixth amongst wideouts.) Considering how inconsistent his offensive line has been, perhaps the most impressive thing about Orton's day is that he took only one sack and a lone intentional grounding penalty on 40 dropbacks.

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2010, 11:21 AM
Thanks for posting these. Good analysis is hard to find.

Rulon Velvet Jones
10-12-2010, 11:23 AM
As someone noted in another thread, the Broncos are going to get a nice haul shopping Lloyd to someone in the offseason.

Beantown Bronco
10-12-2010, 11:31 AM
As someone noted in another thread, the Broncos are going to get a nice haul shopping Lloyd to someone in the offseason.

Unless Decker somehow gets on the field and lights it up over the 2nd half of the season, I'd hold onto Lloyd. He's been nothing but a stud on the field and quiet as a mouse off of it. Given the position he plays, you can't put a value on that 2nd part.

We've got enough holes to fill via the draft. I'd rather not create another.

Kaylore
10-12-2010, 11:34 AM
As crappy as our offensive line coaching has been, the receiver and QB coaching has been quite literally epic.

TonyR
10-12-2010, 11:40 AM
...the Broncos are going to get a nice haul shopping Lloyd to someone in the offseason.

Very possible since his contract is up, right? Although I'm not sure how much we'd get for a WR with one good season on his resume.

CEH
10-12-2010, 11:46 AM
He's suprised me . Very consistent game in and game out. We knew he was a highlight film waiting to happen

Brandon Lloyd is exactly what McD wants in a player. Very intelligent, well spoken , team first


Keep him. A nice piece to the puzzle

worm
10-12-2010, 11:49 AM
Very possible since his contract is up, right? Although I'm not sure how much we'd get for a WR with one good season on his resume.

He is on a pace for a much better season than just 'good'. He is currently at great and working on historical.

I would think he would garner a lot of interest. Not two #2....but still his value has shot up.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-12-2010, 11:50 AM
I'd like to echo the sentiments of those who want to keep Lloyd. He obviously has a good rapport with Orton, the two are clearly friends (joking and laughing during stretches at camp and so forth, both days I went), and they trust each other. Keep him.

SportinOne
10-12-2010, 11:57 AM
It's only a matter of time before Royal, Thomas, and Decker are gathering the lions share of the receptions on this team. However, we have at least one more season before we need to worry about this "problem." I would say, keep things as is until someone gets cranky about catches and either move that person or move someone to make room for him. But if no one is complaining and we are winning, there aint no problem.

baja
10-12-2010, 12:02 PM
Do not trade lloyd

rovolution
10-12-2010, 12:11 PM
Very possible since his contract is up, right? Although I'm not sure how much we'd get for a WR with one good season on his resume.

Believe he signed a two year deal worth around $2 million before this season, so we still hold his rights for one more year after this season.

BMarsh615
10-12-2010, 12:28 PM
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/821/aviaryrotoworldcompictu.png

TonyR
10-12-2010, 12:33 PM
Believe he signed a two year deal worth around $2 million before this season, so we still hold his rights for one more year after this season.

Good to know, thanks. And since there may not be any football next year anyway there's probably no need to worry about it...

Broncoman13
10-12-2010, 12:36 PM
He's suprised me . Very consistent game in and game out. We knew he was a highlight film waiting to happen

Brandon Lloyd is exactly what McD wants in a player. Very intelligent, well spoken , team first


Keep him. A nice piece to the puzzle

This is funny considering McD and Lloyd don't have a great relationship. They pretty much just tolerate one another. McD puts it like this, "we have a unique relationship."

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-12-2010, 12:42 PM
This is funny considering McD and Lloyd don't have a great relationship. They pretty much just tolerate one another. McD puts it like this, "we have a unique relationship."

Link?

Rulon Velvet Jones
10-12-2010, 12:44 PM
Damn, that's a pretty good contract value for Lloyd. MCDANIELS IS TEARING THIS TEAM APART!

Broncoman13
10-12-2010, 12:45 PM
It's been discussed on the radio and during pre-games... not sure I could find a link.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-12-2010, 12:47 PM
It's been discussed on the radio and during pre-games... not sure I could find a link.

Huh. I've never heard that said. Interesting though.

bowtown
10-12-2010, 12:48 PM
This is funny considering McD and Lloyd don't have a great relationship. They pretty much just tolerate one another. McD puts it like this, "we have a unique relationship."

I think you have misinterpreted that. Pretty sure McDaniels was refering to how well the two of them get along.

(on Brandon Lloyd and what he brings to the Broncos)

Brandon is a very talented player. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for him. He went through a lot last year. He stayed on our football team and was deactivated for 14 weeks in a row and just kind of waited his turn patiently, got ready for the game each week and then when his number was called last year he did a good job. We felt highly enough about him to try and resign him and we got that accomplished. We knew what we had with Brandon who is a special player. He has some unique abilities and talents and he certainly made the most of his opportunities early in the season. We look forward to Brandon continuing to have success in our offense as long as we can continue to do the things that we’ve been doing.

(on if it means a lot to coaches to watch a guy put in the work and persevere back onto the active roster)

I think it goes a long way with his teammates and it goes a long way with our coaching staff. It certainly told me a lot about Brandon. He was our scout team player of the week I think five times last year, and usually those things are given mainly to younger players or rookies because that’s usually who’s running your scout team. But Brandon went out there and did everything he could to help us win the game by helping us prepare and had a great attitude and great mindset. He was very unselfish and again, I have a unique relationship with him and look forward to his continued success here.

http://www.titansonline.com/news/article-1/Conference-Call-Broncos-Head-Coach-Josh-McDaniels/765806b8-3371-47bb-a241-b6e0964fce20

Not sure how you can read "barely tolerates" into that.

Popps
10-12-2010, 12:52 PM
This is funny considering McD and Lloyd don't have a great relationship. They pretty much just tolerate one another. McD puts it like this, "we have a unique relationship."

He got a ton out of Brandon Marshall, despite alleged disagreements, too.
But, I was always confident Marshall had less (if any) problem with McD, and more problem with his contract.

I love Lloyd's production and was calling for him to get more action last season. But, I will say... I'm a bit leery of his past. He's a guy I'd be concerned about rewarding with a huge contract, though it's become apparent that he is certainly worth more than we're paying him.

Broncoman13
10-12-2010, 12:58 PM
I think you have misinterpreted that. Pretty sure McDaniels was refering to how well the two of them get along.



http://www.titansonline.com/news/article-1/Conference-Call-Broncos-Head-Coach-Josh-McDaniels/765806b8-3371-47bb-a241-b6e0964fce20

Not sure how you can read "barely tolerates" into that.

First time I've ever read that so not sure how I can "read" anything into that... But you know what I've heard better than me, feel free to continue on with your point.

bowtown
10-12-2010, 01:00 PM
First time I've ever read that so not sure how I can "read" anything into that... But you know what I've heard better than me, feel free to continue on with your point.

Don't think I need to continue on with it. Pretty sure I just made it. I appologize if you feel like I was attacking you. I was really just trying to correct a statement you posted as fact without knowing any of the context surrounding it.

Broncoman13
10-12-2010, 01:01 PM
He got a ton out of Brandon Marshall, despite alleged disagreements, too.
But, I was always confident Marshall had less (if any) problem with McD, and more problem with his contract.

I love Lloyd's production and was calling for him to get more action last season. But, I will say... I'm a bit leery of his past. He's a guy I'd be concerned about rewarding with a huge contract, though it's become apparent that he is certainly worth more than we're paying him.

Brandon Lloyd is the type of player you give two year contracts to. Perhaps next year it will be 2 years $6m or 2 years $8m, but still, Two years is the max I'd give to him. I don't think he completely buys into what McD is selling. If you go back to the beginning of the season/pre-season he was the one talking about "needing" a win so that they could gain some confidence. He had a lot of quotes that led you to believe that there were some that didn't buy into the "We're a great team" rah rah stuff from McD. (This was an interpretation on my part)

Sassy
10-12-2010, 01:02 PM
Unless Decker somehow gets on the field and lights it up over the 2nd half of the season, I'd hold onto Lloyd. He's been nothing but a stud on the field and quiet as a mouse off of it. Given the position he plays, you can't put a value on that 2nd part.

We've got enough holes to fill via the draft. I'd rather not create another.

Marshall without the character issues ;D :devil: !

TheReverend
10-12-2010, 01:02 PM
As crappy as our offensive line coaching has been, the receiver and QB coaching has been quite literally epic.

I'd credit Josh with those above their respective position coaches. His work in the passing game has been pretty stellar.

Broncoman13
10-12-2010, 01:06 PM
Don't think I need to continue on with it. Pretty sure I just made it. I appologize if you feel like I was attacking you. I was really just trying to correct a statement you posted as fact without knowing any of the context surrounding it.

LOL... yes, I know nothing of context surrounding it. You been to Dove Valley lately? You ever get a chance to see the players and coaches interacting? There are things you can observe that don't need to have words associated with them. Just like Jay Cutler being a douche or Alphonso Smith dogging it in practice... you can observe things that speak more than words or quotes.

Tell me, if you were benched for 14 games and felt all along that you were a better option and more capable than the players that were getting the chance to play, do you think you wouldn't have a bit of an edge to you?

Broncoman13
10-12-2010, 01:14 PM
I'd credit Josh with those above their respective position coaches. His work in the passing game has been pretty stellar.

Meh, I think there is a pretty good combination of coaching going on. You can tell the position coaches are doing a good job of advising (coordinators and players) on the types of coverages they can expect to see in certain down/distances and what the defensive tendencies are in those situations. Do they drop multiples or do they blitz. Go back and take a look at the game vs the Ravens. Kyle Orton knew on first downs that he would most likely get certain looks. They even discussed his familiarity with Baltimore's tendencies with regard to blitzing vs dropping 7 or 8 into coverage. If you recall, both long balls came on plays that Baltimore dropped 8 in coverage. They were waiting for it and knew exactly how they wanted to strike the defense in that scenario. Anyhow, the position coaches are the ones that usually break down opponents and discover trends/tendencies. Seems to me that they're doing some pretty good work when it comes to the passing game. That our McD is much more familiar with how to make that info work for him in the passing game vs the Defense or Running game.

bowtown
10-12-2010, 01:18 PM
LOL... yes, I know nothing of context surrounding it. You been to Dove Valley lately? You ever get a chance to see the players and coaches interacting? There are things you can observe that don't need to have words associated with them. Just like Jay Cutler being a douche or Alphonso Smith dogging it in practice... you can observe things that speak more than words or quotes.

Tell me, if you were benched for 14 games and felt all along that you were a better option and more capable than the players that were getting the chance to play, do you think you wouldn't have a bit of an edge to you?

Do you spend a lot of time at Dove Valley? Have you seen Llloyd give McD the cold shoulder? Have you seen McD clench his jaws when Llloyd is around? Please, I'd love to hear about that by all means. But as of right now you have given me the following evidence:

1. A quote that you took out of context, and that when I posted in context, meant the exact opposite of your interpretation.

2. A quote you sort of remember from the beginning of the year about needing a win in preseason, which is pretty much word for word what McDaniels also said before that game.

3. The fact that he was inactive for 14 games last year, while Brandon Marshall was on our team. And instead of having an edge like you assume, in reality he goes out and is scout team player of the week 5 times. He quietly works to make a case for himself and when McDaniels gives him the oppertunity, he runs with it, and McDaniels continues to give him the shots... even going so far as to resigning him to a 2 year contract.

But whatever, I am arguing this with actual actions and quotes in context and you are arguing against it with your own personal interpretations of body language, quotes out of context, and "how would you feel" scenarios.

Kaylore
10-12-2010, 01:30 PM
Brandon Lloyd is the type of player you give two year contracts to. Perhaps next year it will be 2 years $6m or 2 years $8m, but still, Two years is the max I'd give to him. I don't think he completely buys into what McD is selling. If you go back to the beginning of the season/pre-season he was the one talking about "needing" a win so that they could gain some confidence. He had a lot of quotes that led you to believe that there were some that didn't buy into the "We're a great team" rah rah stuff from McD. (This was an interpretation on my part)

I heard that quote live and I said at the time I thought you were reading way too much into. I still do. He was saying the team needed a win for them, for morale, not because they were losing faith in the coach.

TheReverend
10-12-2010, 02:13 PM
Do you spend a lot of time at Dove Valley? Have you seen Llloyd give McD the cold shoulder? Have you seen McD clench his jaws when Llloyd is around? Please, I'd love to hear about that by all means. But as of right now you have given me the following evidence:

1. A quote that you took out of context, and that when I posted in context, meant the exact opposite of your interpretation.

2. A quote you sort of remember from the beginning of the year about needing a win in preseason, which is pretty much word for word what McDaniels also said before that game.

3. The fact that he was inactive for 14 games last year, while Brandon Marshall was on our team. And instead of having an edge like you assume, in reality he goes out and is scout team player of the week 5 times. He quietly works to make a case for himself and when McDaniels gives him the oppertunity, he runs with it, and McDaniels continues to give him the shots... even going so far as to resigning him to a 2 year contract.

But whatever, I am arguing this with actual actions and quotes in context and you are arguing against it with your own personal interpretations of body language, quotes out of context, and "how would you feel" scenarios.

Lloyd ate McDaniels' kid's homework.

bowtown
10-12-2010, 02:18 PM
Lloyd ate McDaniels' kid's homework.

Only because McDaniels kicked Lloyd's dog.

TheReverend
10-12-2010, 02:21 PM
Only because McDaniels kicked Lloyd's dog.

I have a hard time believing McDaniel's kicked Jabar Gaffney.




(Get it? Lloyd's bitch!)

oubronco
10-12-2010, 02:22 PM
Only because McDaniels kicked Lloyd's dog.

Griese tripped over it

The Joker
10-12-2010, 10:56 PM
He'll probably want a big deal in the offseason, and I wouldn't be surprised if he held out and got traded.

Wouldn't blame him either, he's pushing 30 and needs to get that big deal pretty soon if he ever is going to. The way he's playing now, there'll be plenty of teams more than willing to give him a big deal for 3-4 years.

Not sure we'd be one of those teams though, I think Thomas is the future at Lloyd's spot. Be nice to see Thomas and Lloyd as starters for a while though if we do get next year out of him, Gaffney is solid but he's not a playmaker like Lloyd is and like Thomas hopefully will be soon.

Houshyamama
10-13-2010, 12:59 AM
Most of the arguing in this thread was a big waste of my time. I need to start rating the discussion in threads.

[2/10]

_Oro_
10-13-2010, 06:15 AM
Very possible since his contract is up, right? Although I'm not sure how much we'd get for a WR with one good season on his resume.

We'd get more than you think. People will pay a lot for production. He's got 589 yards and 3 tds through 5 games. With 11 games to go he could easily break 1000 yards and 10 tds. Actually I was hoping he would get some garbage yards and tds vs Baltimore to keep driving up his value.

Sassy
10-13-2010, 06:27 AM
Geeze...KEEP HIM!

The Joker
10-13-2010, 08:49 AM
Actually I was hoping he would get some garbage yards and tds vs Baltimore to keep driving up his value.

He did.

_Oro_
10-13-2010, 11:14 AM
He did.

???

Traveler
10-13-2010, 11:28 AM
He'll probably want a big deal in the offseason, and I wouldn't be surprised if he held out and got traded.

Wouldn't blame him either, he's pushing 30 and needs to get that big deal pretty soon if he ever is going to. The way he's playing now, there'll be plenty of teams more than willing to give him a big deal for 3-4 years.

Not sure we'd be one of those teams though, I think Thomas is the future at Lloyd's spot. Be nice to see Thomas and Lloyd as starters for a while though if we do get next year out of him, Gaffney is solid but he's not a playmaker like Lloyd is and like Thomas hopefully will be soon.

My guess is Gaffney will be gone before Lloyd.

Beantown Bronco
10-13-2010, 11:34 AM
???

Ummm, what are you questioning?

You said: I was hoping he would get some garbage yards and tds vs Baltimore to keep driving up his value.

McSchism said: He did.

Did you watch the game?

Lloyd had a 44 yd TD with one minute left in a blowout game. That is the very definition of getting some garbage time yards and TDs to drive up his value.

worm
10-13-2010, 11:42 AM
Ummm, what are you questioning?

You said: I was hoping he would get some garbage yards and tds vs Baltimore to keep driving up his value.

McSchism said: He did.



Beantown: You said--

_Oro_: Yes, I recall what--

Beantown: I can have the Court Reporter read back your--

_Oro_: I know what I said. I don't need it read back to me like I'm a damn--

Requiem
10-13-2010, 11:49 AM
Lloyd has really been a pleasant surprise. The passing attack has been pretty epic, just wish we could put more points on the board in the RZ. It is nice knowing we can go into a gameplan and have 3-4 quality receivers (if not more) who have an opportunity to have a big week. Lloyd, Royal, Gaffney and Thomas have all had great games this year. Once Decker gets healthy and everything is rolling, I think this could be a real exciting unit for a while.