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JCMElway
10-10-2010, 09:07 PM
This game went pretty much as expected and reinforces where we are in my mind. We're in year two of a rebuilding process. We were outclassed on the field by a better football team today. I think next year is the year to really start considering us as a strong playoff contender. Things that we lack now that we pick up next year are:

--The young O-line gels and is able to start getting us 4 YPC. We're just not there yet.
--Dumervil comes back. Ayers and Doom are going to make a very nice tandem
--More experience in Wink's defensive system. Continuity goes a long ways towards success.
--Demarius and Decker can start to bring their talents to the field after a year of learning.
--We pick up some defensive line help in the draft, maybe a stud ILB.

I'm not saying this year is a wash by any means. SD is down nd KC is going to lose at least 6 more games. If we win 5 of our division games we could take the West. however, the game vs. Bmore showed us what a playoff team looks like, and that we are a team not quite there yet.

JCMElway
10-10-2010, 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by SoCalBronco
1. Orton had another solid effort.
2. The running game wasn't a complete, utter abject failure of biblical proportions like last week. It was only a regular abject failure. Baby steps.
3. All three starting WR's kept showing up...even against a good cover team.
4. DJ had another excellent game. 15 tackles and a couple stuffs. Monster.
5. Hunter wasn't bad this game.
6. Special Teams coverage wasn't as bad...Woodyard with some good tackles.
7. Even though he was up and down, Cox had some pass breakups. He did get toasted several times, but most would when they have to cover for 6 seconds.

On the whole, it was pretty bad, though. Maybe we can do a little better at home against the Jets.

KCStud
10-10-2010, 09:09 PM
This game went pretty much as expected and reinforces where we are in my mind. We're in year two of a rebuilding process. We were outclassed on the field by a better football team today. I think next year is the year to really start considering us as a strong playoff contender. Things that we lack now that we pick up next year are:

--The young O-line gels and is able to start getting us 4 YPC. We're just not there yet.
--Dumervil comes back. Ayers and Doom are going to make a very nice tandem
--More experience in Wink's defensive system. Continuity goes a long ways towards success.
--Demarius and Decker can start to bring their talents to the field after a year of learning.
--We pick up some defensive line help in the draft, maybe a stud ILB.

I'm not saying this year is a wash by any means. SD is down nd KC is going to lose at least 6 more games. If we win 5 of our division games we could take the West. however, the game vs. Bmore showed us what a playoff team looks like, and that we are a team not quite there yet.

Anybody could lose 6 more games..

spdirty
10-10-2010, 09:20 PM
with the exception of Orton, Lloyd, Dawkins, Champ, and DJ, we are http://shop.poshbrats.com/ekmps/shops/poshbrats/images/marshmallow-scrub-1220-p.jpg

BroncoBacker
10-10-2010, 09:33 PM
Soft is an understatement! Unfortunately, each of the players you named are not exactly YOUNG talent. So by the time we rebuild, those guys will be on the downside. Guys like Champ and Dawkins might even be in the announcers booth!

SoCalBronco
10-10-2010, 09:39 PM
Soft is an understatement! Unfortunately, each of the players you named are not exactly YOUNG talent. So by the time we rebuild, those guys will be on the downside. Guys like Champ and Dawkins might even be in the announcers booth!

DJ is only 28 years old. He's got another good 4-5 years left in the tank.

We've got some good young talent on this team. Clady and Harris are pretty young, as is Kuper. Thomas and Royal are very young, as is Moreno (obviously the jury is still out on him). IMO, the rookie linemen will eventually be decent...Beadles has already shown some stuff. We still have to add some more young talent ofcourse...probably another 3-4 young quality starters, but we've got some good youngsters already.

RhymesayersDU
10-10-2010, 09:40 PM
DJ is only 28 years old. He's got another good 4-5 years left in the tank.

When DJ got trucked by Flacco I was pretty embarrassed for him... But that epic hit on 3rd and goal easily made up for it.

Popps
10-10-2010, 09:40 PM
Bmore showed us what a playoff team looks like, and that we are a team not quite there yet.

Agree. Baltimore might be the best team in the league.

They didn't even need to use Boldin today and they tore us up.

They're just too deep and too balanced for most teams. I'm hoping we can take something away from this win, rather than having it set us back like it did last season.

Even if we don't make the playoffs, this team desperately needs to finish strong this season.

SoCalBronco
10-10-2010, 09:46 PM
When DJ got trucked by Flacco I was pretty embarrassed for him... But that epic hit on 3rd and goal easily made up for it.

He was only executing the game plan, bro. Wink was stressing all week for them to allow Flacco to get his ego going so that he could try it again......and have his jaw broken.

;D

Bronco_Fan_27
10-10-2010, 09:50 PM
man i wish dj could get another shot at flacco.. im sure he wouldnt let that happen again

24champ
10-10-2010, 09:50 PM
Agree. Baltimore might be the best team in the league.

They didn't even need to use Boldin today and they tore us up.

They're just too deep and too balanced for most teams. I'm hoping we can take something away from this win, rather than having it set us back like it did last season.

Even if we don't make the playoffs, this team desperately needs to finish strong this season.


That's about where my expectations are for the year, I am hoping we get into the playoffs like most Bronco fans. However, we really need to string together some wins and finish the season strong. Next week is going to be another big test.

bronco militia
10-10-2010, 09:51 PM
8-8

SoCalBronco
10-10-2010, 09:55 PM
I'm very concerned about the Jets game. We will HAVE to string together some kind of halfway decent run game. We won't be able to compete throwing 50 passes. If you try that against those two corners (Revis should be back, I think, although not 100%), they WILL intercept some passes, or sit on some routes. They've got alot of talent in that secondary and they won't stand to be dicked to death with short passes. They'll rough up our guys at the line (Royal in the slot will have to come up big, and they'll have to motion the other guys around alot to shake off the jams), while bringing the heat to disrupt the timing.

I know people hate them, but we're going to have to heavily rely on the screen passes to give the Jets a reason not to be so aggressive. It will be difficult to score points in this game. The Jets are balanced on offense, too, its not like the Titans where we're not really afraid of Young throwing on us. These guys can pass and run. It will be a real test.. We will have to have a superior effort in this game.

Bronco Yoda
10-10-2010, 10:09 PM
Well IMO the Ravens are one of the best teams in the AFC. So today wasn't a shocker. I see us going 6-5 down the stretch. God I hope I'm way off here. I will gladly eat some crow.

JCMElway
10-10-2010, 10:20 PM
Ah, some nice football discussion without folks sniping at each other. Good times!

BowlenBall
10-10-2010, 10:21 PM
Our rushing game after 5 weeks:

Week 1, at Jacksonville: 25 rushes for 89 yards (3.6 YPC), 1 tackle for loss
Week 2, vs. Seattle: 38 rushes for 65 yards (1.7 YPC), 4 tackles for loss
Week 3, vs. Indianapolis: 18 rushes for 47 yards (2.6 YPC), 1 tackle for loss
Week 4, at Tennessee: 20 rushes for 19 yards (1.0 YPC), 5 tackles for loss
Week 5, at Baltimore: 13 rushes for 39 yards (3.0 YPC), 4 tackles for loss

Makes Kyle Orton's performance all the more amazing, IMO. He's passing for a kajillion yards with no run support, and rarely turning over the ball. Imagine if teams had to honor our play-action...?

As JCMElway said in the original post, we're still in the thick of the AFC West, but the running game is historically bad right now.

BroncoBacker
10-10-2010, 10:36 PM
A rushing game is all part of the scheme of the offensive genius of McDaniels! We don't need one...we can lose with or without!

SonOfLe-loLang
10-10-2010, 10:40 PM
I'm very concerned about the Jets game. We will HAVE to string together some kind of halfway decent run game. We won't be able to compete throwing 50 passes. If you try that against those two corners (Revis should be back, I think, although not 100%), they WILL intercept some passes, or sit on some routes. They've got alot of talent in that secondary and they won't stand to be dicked to death with short passes. They'll rough up our guys at the line (Royal in the slot will have to come up big, and they'll have to motion the other guys around alot to shake off the jams), while bringing the heat to disrupt the timing.

I know people hate them, but we're going to have to heavily rely on the screen passes to give the Jets a reason not to be so aggressive. It will be difficult to score points in this game. The Jets are balanced on offense, too, its not like the Titans where we're not really afraid of Young throwing on us. These guys can pass and run. It will be a real test.. We will have to have a superior effort in this game.

Could have used a couple of those today. I'm still not a Sanchez believer either (re: the Jets balanced attack)

fontaine
10-11-2010, 02:55 AM
Our rushing game after 5 weeks:

Week 1, at Jacksonville: 25 rushes for 89 yards (3.6 YPC), 1 tackle for loss
Week 2, vs. Seattle: 38 rushes for 65 yards (1.7 YPC), 4 tackles for loss
Week 3, vs. Indianapolis: 18 rushes for 47 yards (2.6 YPC), 1 tackle for loss
Week 4, at Tennessee: 20 rushes for 19 yards (1.0 YPC), 5 tackles for loss
Week 5, at Baltimore: 13 rushes for 39 yards (3.0 YPC), 4 tackles for loss

Makes Kyle Orton's performance all the more amazing, IMO. He's passing for a kajillion yards with no run support, and rarely turning over the ball. Imagine if teams had to honor our play-action...?

As JCMElway said in the original post, we're still in the thick of the AFC West, but the running game is historically bad right now.

This is the stuff that really bothers me about the run game. We're getting worse in the number of negative plays in the run game. We're not just getting physically beaten at the line of scrimmage but not picking up run blitzes, stunts and twists along the front 7. That's as much about the inability of the coaching to bring the best out of the OL and prepare them during the week as it is about the execution along the interior.

Defenses have obviously spotted a problem there and until we can show otherwise, we're going to continue to see front 7s attack our interior all year long.

UberBroncoMan
10-11-2010, 04:31 AM
Can we let ourselves off the hook?

The Joker
10-11-2010, 04:47 AM
It's funny people freaking out about this one.

A Denver victory would have been a massive upset, yet some people are acting like the sky is falling because we lost on the road to one of the best teams in the NFL.

If we're getting our asses handed to us by the likes of Oakland and San Fran in a few weeks time, then it's time to start worrying. As it is we just need to focus on getting better and hoping we can somehow pull one out against the Jets along the way.

Drek
10-11-2010, 04:59 AM
It's funny people freaking out about this one.

A Denver victory would have been a massive upset, yet some people are acting like the sky is falling because we lost on the road to one of the best teams in the NFL.

If we're getting our asses handed to us by the likes of Oakland and San Fran in a few weeks time, then it's time to start worrying. As it is we just need to focus on getting better and hoping we can somehow pull one out against the Jets along the way.

My only problem with the loss is that we as much beat ourselves offensively as the Ravens beat us defensively.

Orton was moving the ball well and the running game was even getting some results. But we committed a ton of unneeded penalties, didn't pass protect well at all (related to the ton of penalties), and did not show the kind of aggressive play calling that helped us prevail over Tennessee last week.

The OL is a MAJOR issue right now and I don't think we can safely bet on Hochstein to be a cure all. Clady is even having issues. This team honestly could really use a by week but that isn't until week 9 and we've got a fairly tough road to travel until that point.

This is trial by fire for an OL that wasn't healthy all pre-season relying on a rookie starting center. Long term its probably the right move, I just can't help but think how much better we'd look in 2010 with Mawae at C and Mankins (in exchange for one of our two 2nd round picks) at LG.

fontaine
10-11-2010, 05:22 AM
My only problem with the loss is that we as much beat ourselves offensively as the Ravens beat us defensively.

Orton was moving the ball well and the running game was even getting some results. But we committed a ton of unneeded penalties, didn't pass protect well at all (related to the ton of penalties), and did not show the kind of aggressive play calling that helped us prevail over Tennessee last week.

The OL is a MAJOR issue right now and I don't think we can safely bet on Hochstein to be a cure all. Clady is even having issues. This team honestly could really use a by week but that isn't until week 9 and we've got a fairly tough road to travel until that point.

This is trial by fire for an OL that wasn't healthy all pre-season relying on a rookie starting center. Long term its probably the right move, I just can't help but think how much better we'd look in 2010 with Mawae at C and Mankins (in exchange for one of our two 2nd round picks) at LG.

I think a lot of difficult stuff is already done. We're a better defense but still missing Doom obviously as well as a difference maker like Ngata along the DL and the passing game has really taken off.

We definitely have huge issues along the OL as well as OL Coaching that need to be resolved though. I'm disapointed that we didn't bring in any quality veterans in the offseason to complete with our young guys in the interior. But like you said it should be straight forward to fix next year by signing/trading for a quality interior OL.

THAT as well as getting a good FB and RB depth. I'm not sure about the coaching though, I'm not convinced that our current RB/OL coaches are getting the best out of Clady/Harris/Kuper.

elsid13
10-11-2010, 05:49 AM
One player (Doom) missing shouldn't destroy the ability of good defense. The problem remains we don't have any play makers in the front seven. You need one at every level to be a decent defense and more then one at each level makes you a great defense. And it not about using high draft picks on those guys, it about finding men that are just down right mean/nasty on the field.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-11-2010, 06:24 AM
One player (Doom) missing shouldn't destroy the ability of good defense. The problem remains we don't have any play makers in the front seven. You need one at every level to be a decent defense and more then one at each level makes you a great defense. And it not about using high draft picks on those guys, it about finding men that are just down right mean/nasty on the field.

Really? 'Cause he had 17 sacks last season, many of which came in HUGE moments.

I think that's the definition of a "play maker in the front seven."

Kaylore
10-11-2010, 06:42 AM
One player (Doom) missing shouldn't destroy the ability of good defense. The problem remains we don't have any play makers in the front seven. You need one at every level to be a decent defense and more then one at each level makes you a great defense. And it not about using high draft picks on those guys, it about finding men that are just down right mean/nasty on the field.

How can you say one guy doesn't make a difference and then the next sentence say "this team lacks playmakers"!?!?! You even say "you need one" at every level.

The Joker
10-11-2010, 06:47 AM
My only problem with the loss is that we as much beat ourselves offensively as the Ravens beat us defensively.

Orton was moving the ball well and the running game was even getting some results. But we committed a ton of unneeded penalties, didn't pass protect well at all (related to the ton of penalties), and did not show the kind of aggressive play calling that helped us prevail over Tennessee last week.

The OL is a MAJOR issue right now and I don't think we can safely bet on Hochstein to be a cure all. Clady is even having issues. This team honestly could really use a by week but that isn't until week 9 and we've got a fairly tough road to travel until that point.

This is trial by fire for an OL that wasn't healthy all pre-season relying on a rookie starting center. Long term its probably the right move, I just can't help but think how much better we'd look in 2010 with Mawae at C and Mankins (in exchange for one of our two 2nd round picks) at LG.

I think a lot of those penalties are a result of the level of opponent we were up against though. The players don't hold defenders for fun, they do it because they're getting beat and it's their natural reaction to try one last desperate move to stop the defender.

The delay of game penalties were as a result of Orton struggling with the Ravens coverages and their blitz disguises, which they could be creative with because they didn't have to worry about us running the ball at them.

We're just not good enough to play teams like the Ravens at the moment, unfortunately, and I'm not sure there's any way to fix that this year unless the O-Line can somehow get it together.

Rohirrim
10-11-2010, 08:23 AM
That was a nice little goal line stand in the first series.

I was completely shocked to see Dawkins get so turned around on that long bomb. I looked at the number on his shirt a couple of times to make sure. Ar first, I assumed it was a rookie.

Orton looked excellent, again.

Way too many dumb penalties. A couple of them came on key third down conversions. That's just self-defeating.

The Oline gave up, what, one sack? Against the Ravens? That's pretty damn good.

No pass rush. Made Flacco look a whole lot better than he is.

Anybody else get the ugly feeling in the pit of their stomach watching DT return kicks?

We need a few more pieces in the right places (pass rush, kick returner, Oline run blocking) and we'll go up a few more notches.

Tombstone RJ
10-11-2010, 08:26 AM
This game went pretty much as expected and reinforces where we are in my mind. We're in year two of a rebuilding process. We were outclassed on the field by a better football team today. I think next year is the year to really start considering us as a strong playoff contender. Things that we lack now that we pick up next year are:

--The young O-line gels and is able to start getting us 4 YPC. We're just not there yet.
--Dumervil comes back. Ayers and Doom are going to make a very nice tandem
--More experience in Wink's defensive system. Continuity goes a long ways towards success.
--Demarius and Decker can start to bring their talents to the field after a year of learning.
--We pick up some defensive line help in the draft, maybe a stud ILB.

I'm not saying this year is a wash by any means. SD is down nd KC is going to lose at least 6 more games. If we win 5 of our division games we could take the West. however, the game vs. Bmore showed us what a playoff team looks like, and that we are a team not quite there yet.

it showed me the refs are crooked.

zdoor
10-11-2010, 09:30 AM
This game went pretty much as expected and reinforces where we are in my mind. We're in year two of a rebuilding process. We were outclassed on the field by a better football team today. I think next year is the year to really start considering us as a strong playoff contender. Things that we lack now that we pick up next year are:

--The young O-line gels and is able to start getting us 4 YPC. We're just not there yet.
--Dumervil comes back. Ayers and Doom are going to make a very nice tandem
--More experience in Wink's defensive system. Continuity goes a long ways towards success.
--Demarius and Decker can start to bring their talents to the field after a year of learning.
--We pick up some defensive line help in the draft, maybe a stud ILB.

I'm not saying this year is a wash by any means. SD is down nd KC is going to lose at least 6 more games. If we win 5 of our division games we could take the West. however, the game vs. Bmore showed us what a playoff team looks like, and that we are a team not quite there yet.

Agree with what you're saying but would add hopefully the coaching staff improves overall team discipline and reduces penalties and errors.

_Oro_
10-11-2010, 09:43 AM
That was a nice little goal line stand in the first series.

I was completely shocked to see Dawkins get so turned around on that long bomb. I looked at the number on his shirt a couple of times to make sure. Ar first, I assumed it was a rookie.

Orton looked excellent, again.

Way too many dumb penalties. A couple of them came on key third down conversions. That's just self-defeating.

The Oline gave up, what, one sack? Against the Ravens? That's pretty damn good.

No pass rush. Made Flacco look a whole lot better than he is.

Anybody else get the ugly feeling in the pit of their stomach watching DT return kicks?

We need a few more pieces in the right places (pass rush, kick returner, Oline run blocking) and we'll go up a few more notches.

No sacks but the holds more than made up for the sacks.

baja
10-11-2010, 09:52 AM
That was a nice little goal line stand in the first series.

I was completely shocked to see Dawkins get so turned around on that long bomb. I looked at the number on his shirt a couple of times to make sure. Ar first, I assumed it was a rookie.

Orton looked excellent, again.

Way too many dumb penalties. A couple of them came on key third down conversions. That's just self-defeating.

The Oline gave up, what, one sack? Against the Ravens? That's pretty damn good.

No pass rush. Made Flacco look a whole lot better than he is.

<b>Anybody else get the ugly feeling in the pit of their stomach watching DT return kicks?</b>

We need a few more pieces in the right places (pass rush, kick returner, Oline run blocking) and we'll go up a few more notches.


Big time!! I think big men like DT are much more susceptible to injury than smaller compact guys. The big men have long limbs and the laws of leverage make them more susceptible to breakage. The whiplash on DT when he was hit on the hip traveled up his long body and really snapped his hear and neck. I think a smaller guy would have absorbed that hit better.

broncosteven
10-11-2010, 09:53 AM
Really? 'Cause he had 17 sacks last season, many of which came in HUGE moments.

I think that's the definition of a "play maker in the front seven."

Good to great 3-4 D's get pressure rushing 3. Doom is a LB and a good one but we need the DL to be able to get a push also.

The Orange Crush D used to be able to get sacks/pressure rushing only 3.

originalsultan
10-11-2010, 04:51 PM
This game went pretty much as expected and reinforces where we are in my mind. We're in year two of a rebuilding process. We were outclassed on the field by a better football team today. I think next year is the year to really start considering us as a strong playoff contender. Things that we lack now that we pick up next year are:

--The young O-line gels and is able to start getting us 4 YPC. We're just not there yet.
--Dumervil comes back. Ayers and Doom are going to make a very nice tandem
--More experience in Wink's defensive system. Continuity goes a long ways towards success.
--Demarius and Decker can start to bring their talents to the field after a year of learning.
--We pick up some defensive line help in the draft, maybe a stud ILB.

I'm not saying this year is a wash by any means. SD is down nd KC is going to lose at least 6 more games. If we win 5 of our division games we could take the West. however, the game vs. Bmore showed us what a playoff team looks like, and that we are a team not quite there yet.

Agreed. Even though we are basically in the middle phase of the re-build, the West is bad enough that it is still winnable. I don't see us getting it done, but stranger things have happened.

ScottXray
10-11-2010, 05:09 PM
Agreed. Even though we are basically in the middle phase of the re-build, the West is bad enough that it is still winnable. I don't see us getting it done, but stranger things have happened.

Agree that we probably don't get it done, especially with Ayers and Dawkins gone for a month, or two, or three.
O-line has to get it together NOW or we can kiss this season g-bye. Or Orton has to have that 5000 yard season and get a lot of TD's and not just yards.

Backs are to the wall....next week is stating to look like must win to have any real chance at anything this year, or even a .500 record.

Mediator12
10-12-2010, 06:32 AM
Good to great 3-4 D's get pressure rushing 3. Doom is a LB and a good one but we need the DL to be able to get a push also.

The Orange Crush D used to be able to get sacks/pressure rushing only 3.

What? No one is supposed to get pressure rushing three.

It simply allows the coverage to be more sophisticated and should allow a short underneath throw that players converge on quickly.

To be able to get pressure rushing three takes great individual defensive penetration combined with terrible OL protection.

Old Dude
10-12-2010, 07:13 AM
I'm not going to read too much into it. 2d consecutive eastern road game which is always tough on Denver, and in typical fashion they got their butts spanked in Baltimore:

12/31/01 Lost 3-21
09/30/02 Lost 23-34
10/26/03 Lost 6-26
11/01/09 Lost 7-30
10/10/10 Lost 17-31

Total 0-5 Denver 56, Ravens 122

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2010, 11:23 AM
Good thread, JCM.

Traveler
10-14-2010, 02:34 PM
Any ideas on what Denver needs to do this season and offseason to get the same mentality and physicality as the Ravens?

loborugger
10-14-2010, 02:44 PM
Any ideas on what Denver needs to do this season and offseason to get the same mentality and physicality as the Ravens?

As much as I dislike the guy, I have to say that is strongly driven by Ray Lewis. I imagine within 2/3 years of his retirement, that team will take on a different complexion. Having said that, we need a front seven player who is as tough as nails.

baja
10-14-2010, 02:47 PM
Any ideas on what Denver needs to do this season and offseason to get the same mentality and physicality as the Ravens?


draft a ray lewis

draft a Haloti Ngata

draft a Ed Reed

broncosteven
10-14-2010, 05:12 PM
What? No one is supposed to get pressure rushing three.

It simply allows the coverage to be more sophisticated and should allow a short underneath throw that players converge on quickly.

To be able to get pressure rushing three takes great individual defensive penetration combined with terrible OL protection.

I didn't say supposed, I did say good to great 3-4 D's get pressure rushing 3 and the Crush D did get pressure in pass rushing situations just rushing 3.

I won't argue with what you said but I didn't mean to imply that teams rushed 3 to get pressure by design, just that the good to great ones can and do get pressure when they rush 3.

Williams is the only one able to take on double teams so far and he can't stay in long enough to make an impact on a game. Bannan has held up in run game but no one is collapsing the pocket from the DL and now we have no depth left at OLB due to injury.

oubronco
10-14-2010, 06:36 PM
As much as I dislike the guy, I have to say that is strongly driven by Ray Lewis. I imagine within 2/3 years of his retirement, that team will take on a different complexion. Having said that, we need a front seven player who is as tough as nails.

I miss Al Wilson and Steve Atwater

gunns
10-15-2010, 10:25 AM
Agree. Baltimore might be the best team in the league.

They didn't even need to use Boldin today and they tore us up.

They're just too deep and too balanced for most teams. I'm hoping we can take something away from this win, rather than having it set us back like it did last season.

Even if we don't make the playoffs, this team desperately needs to finish strong this season.

And what is Baltimore's strong point? Their defense. All that is talked about anymore is the Broncos offense, the running game, the OL, valid points. But I'm hoping and praying that if there is a season next year, the focus is on defense. Our defense has played well, but playing well and dominating are two different things. A defense, as the dominant force, allows an offense with a QB like Flacco to succeed.