PDA

View Full Version : So this is a tougher team huh?


fontaine
10-10-2010, 12:45 PM
I've been hearing so far in the year that we're a "tougher" team.

I still don't see it. Apart from one quarter where we pushed around Flacco (because they got pass happy - Good job by Hunter) our defense gave up yards and TDs until they got completely tired in the 2nd half and B'more and their rushing game stoned our front 7.

Our offense though makes our defense look like the steel curtain. We look like a JV team in terms of the OL. Orton was once again chased around in the pocket, the RBs beaten up behind the line of scrimmage and the ravens man handled and rag dolled our OL. We pretty much cried uncle and gave up the running game once it was obvious just how badly we were executing out there.

I lost count of the amount of the times our OL was holding because they simply got beat, even by their LBers where our OL should have had a size advantage.

Oh yeah, but Orton and the passing game racked up a lot of meaningless yards (unless they were in the red zone where once again they sucked) so I guess it's okay.

This isn't meant to be a "Denver/Josh sucks thread" but a reality check. Our OL has become a huge liability taking the rest of the offense down with it. Until we fix that from coaching on down we're going nowhere.

Kuper/Harris/Hochstein/Clady started today with Walton. So the injury excuses have run out.

Dagmar
10-10-2010, 12:47 PM
:sunshine:

fontaine
10-10-2010, 12:54 PM
Dagmar, like I said in my post this isn't meant to be a "Denver/Josh sucks" thread.

So I would appreciate it dude if you didn't spam this thread and edit your post to take out that huge pic.

I've never spammed a thread here, so it would be the decent thing to do.

;)

Popps
10-10-2010, 12:55 PM
So the injury excuses have run out.

Really?

Yea.... Doom and Moreno probably wouldn't help this team much.

Not to mention losing McBath, Dawkins, Goodman and Thomas.


Nahhhhhh.... those guys wouldn't have helped today.

Popps
10-10-2010, 12:56 PM
Dagmar, like I said in my post this isn't meant to be a "Denver/Josh sucks" thread.


;)

Dude, you're attention-seeking and it looks like you'll get some.

Enjoy.

fontaine
10-10-2010, 12:58 PM
Really?

Yea.... Doom and Moreno probably wouldn't help this team much.

Not to mention losing McBath, Dawkins, Goodman and Thomas.


Nahhhhhh.... those guys wouldn't have helped today.


How exactly would those guys have helped along the OL?

Kuper/Harris/Hochstein/Clady started today with Walton. So the injury excuses have run out.

Dagmar
10-10-2010, 12:59 PM
Dagmar, like I said in my post this isn't meant to be a "Denver/Josh sucks" thread.

So I would appreciate it dude if you didn't spam this thread and edit your post to take out that huge pic.

I've never spammed a thread here, so it would be the decent thing to do.

;)
You are polite. Done.

go_broncos
10-10-2010, 01:00 PM
****ing pathetic excuses.WTF did they when they were playing last year?
What about the penalties..We are last in rushing..Horrible performance.

fontaine
10-10-2010, 01:00 PM
Dude, you're attention-seeking and it looks like you'll get some.

Enjoy.

I've been pretty clear about the problems along the OL from week 1.

I would have thought a guy that has perennially posted about improving the DL would have understood that.

fontaine
10-10-2010, 01:01 PM
You are polite. Done.

Thanks. Also I've always supported the Scots whenever they've played England in the 6 nations!!

:strong:

Popps
10-10-2010, 01:01 PM
How exactly would those guys have helped along the OL?

I didn't say they'd specifically help the OL.

But, all units affect other units and we're still playing severely short-handed.

If you're trying to tell us that our OL is struggling at run-blocking, congrats on that astute observation. Call the front office. I'm sure no one else has noticed this. We certainly haven't talked about it around here ad nauseam.

fontaine
10-10-2010, 01:06 PM
I didn't say they'd specifically help the OL.

But, all units affect other units and we're still playing severely short-handed.

If you're trying to tell us that our OL is struggling at run-blocking, congrats on that astute observation. Call the front office. I'm sure no one else has noticed this. We certainly haven't talked about it around here ad nauseam.

The OL isn't struggling.

They're failing to the tune of setting NFL and franchise records. I think any logical fan would take struggling at this point to be a massive improvement.

But you've missed the point again. It isn't just about the run game it's also the passing game.

14 of our points came from outside the red zone when B'more went into prevent D. Any time they rushed more than 3 they bottled up Orton and harassed and hurried him, so the pass blocking is doing badly (although not as bad as the run blocking).

gtown
10-10-2010, 01:08 PM
The only injury that would have changed the game today is Doom's. Losing him changed the entire face of the entire season.

Even without the injuries and the numerous mental mistakes, the Broncos were most likely not gonna win this game. The Ravens are a top team with the kind of talent on both lines that we just don't have yet, as well as Flacco, Rice, Boldin, Housh, etc. They are a bonafide Super Bowl contender IMHO.

Popps
10-10-2010, 01:15 PM
The OL isn't struggling.

They're failing to the tune of setting NFL and franchise records. I think any logical fan would take struggling at this point to be a massive improvement.
.

Yea, you'd better grab a dictionary, sport.


But you've missed the point again. It isn't just about the run game it's also the passing game.

14 of our points came from outside the red zone when B'more went into prevent D. Any time they rushed more than 3 they bottled up Orton and harassed and hurried him, so the pass blocking is doing badly (although not as bad as the run blocking).

Ahhhh.... so, our OL is struggling, huh?

Again, I'm not sure what we would have done without this thread pointing out such a deep, intricate and highly disguised point.

broncosteven
10-10-2010, 01:16 PM
The OL isn't struggling.

They're failing to the tune of setting NFL and franchise records. I think any logical fan would take struggling at this point to be a massive improvement.

But you've missed the point again. It isn't just about the run game it's also the passing game.

14 of our points came from outside the red zone when B'more went into prevent D. Any time they rushed more than 3 they bottled up Orton and harassed and hurried him, so the pass blocking is doing badly (although not as bad as the run blocking).

We were told when mCd took over that the move to a Power run game would help us convert on 3rd down and inside the redzone.

Not only have we not seen a 1K or better RB in mCd's tenure but the OL went from one of the best in the league to the absolute worst. Even duh bears OL is better, just on run stats alone.

Our D is about the same as it has been since week 7 of 2006.

Our secondary isn't any better that it was.

We are not any tougher, if anything we are a weaker team because we cannot run at all.

Our passing attack can generate yards but not alot of points.

ST's are still a liability.

We need another full offseason cycle where we DRAFT DL and OL depth to get to the point where we can compete with teams like Ravens or Jets.

I still think that it might have been prudent to draft a DL this past draft rather getting Tebow who will not return any benefits until next year or even 2012...

But I am sure there is something popps will find to make him proud of the team and see that we are close to turning it around.

meangene
10-10-2010, 01:17 PM
Today we were physically dominated. It was an embarrassment.

Dedhed
10-10-2010, 01:19 PM
I've been hearing so far in the year that we're a "tougher" team.


I guess if you'd never seen a Broncos/Ravens game before today, you could say they didn't look very tough out there today.

If you're comparing this Broncos team to others, however, it's pretty easy to see if you're paying attention.

We lacked execution today, not physicality.

scttgrd
10-10-2010, 01:21 PM
We were told when mCd took over that the move to a Power run game would help us convert on 3rd down and inside the redzone.

Not only have we not seen a 1K or better RB in mCd's tenure but the OL went from one of the best in the league to the absolute worst. Even duh bears OL is better, just on run stats alone.

Our D is about the same as it has been since week 7 of 2006.

Our secondary isn't any better that it was.

We are not any tougher, if anything we are a weaker team because we cannot run at all.

Our passing attack can generate yards but not alot of points.

ST's are still a liability.

We need another full offseason cycle where we DRAFT DL and OL depth to get to the point where we can compete with teams like Ravens or Jets.

I still think that it might have been prudent to draft a DL this past draft rather getting Tebow who will not return any benefits until next year or even 2012...

But I am sure there is something popps will find to make him proud of the team and see that we are close to turning it around.

This is exactly what I have been trying to say, but you put it out there just right. Most don't want to hear it. This team is different, just not really better. And worse in the run game, thanks McDaniels.

meangene
10-10-2010, 01:21 PM
I guess if you'd never seen a Broncos/Ravens game before today, you could say they didn't look very tough out there today.

If you're comparing this Broncos team to others, however, it's pretty easy to see if you're paying attention.

We lacked execution today, not physicality.

When they are running out the clock and cram it down our throats for a touchdown drive, that is lack of physicality.

LongDongJohnson
10-10-2010, 01:23 PM
i bet our 2007 run defense could hold our current offense to 20 yards rushing.

Dedhed
10-10-2010, 01:24 PM
When they are running out the clock and cram it down our throats for a touchdown drive, that is lack of physicality.

Yes, we're still less physical than the most physical team in the NFL, but far more so than Broncos teams in recent memory.

When you find the magic button to transform a team overnight, let me know, because I'll invest heavily.

I would bet there are a few franchise owners who would love that kind of technology.

bpc
10-10-2010, 01:26 PM
You can't be a physical team throwing it 40-50 times a game. Sorry. Some of ya'll lapped that $hit up when McD was selling it.

He could care less about the running game and it shows. He may be talking about physicality in terms of our defense, and we've seen it there at times over his first two years but his overall affect on our rushing game has been dog-$hit. Anybody who says different or makes excuses for him is clueless. He's had a chance to put his impression on it and the experiment has failed miserably.

Requiem
10-10-2010, 01:28 PM
Tougher team. . .

Well, OK Fontaine.

Let's just put it this way.

It doesn't necessarily have to be an injury excuse to bring up why this team isn't being physical (high level) in games. You could have argued well that even with the off-season additions on this team, offensively or defensively, that this year -- the crop of players we had still weren't going to cut the mustard. Anyhoo. . .

Dumervil going down at OLB pinned this team hard down defensively. It would be hard to argue against us being better defensively if he were on the field. Getting a guy like Jason Hunter in at OLB to replace him just isn't going to cut it. I think Wink would be a lot more aggressive if Elvis were there on the edge.

Moreover, Ayers has developed solidly and hopefully can keep ascending, but there is no doubt we are devoid of solid pass-rushing talent with our front seven. This team needs good investment of talent there, be it veteran or youth.

I think D.J. has been solid on the inside, but there can be an upgrade next to him. We should be adding an ILB and OLB next year in the draft, as well as any position up on the DL. Early. It has to be done. Hopefully then, we can become to get more physical. We can do better than what we have there, no doubt about it.

Offensively, we are not a physical team up front off the ball. We have played some great defenses with quick defenders off the snap and our interior line, and overall I think most of our line, has struggled immensely. Especially Walton. I admire that he is getting good playing time, but he has been very average so far, but I guess that would be expected of a rookie.

We have had a carousel of players moving in and out of starting spots on our offensive line. A lack of cohesiveness is going in and out on a daily basis. We have tried Daniels, Hochstein, Beadles, Harris, etc. all at different starting positions. Health and durability is a concern and it probably has a serious impact on being able to be stable as a unit. The technique hasn't been there either and the issues have been quite serious.

You see it as well as everyone else here, our running game is just pathetic. I think most of the attribution goes to the offensive line not working well, but I think it is safe to say Buckhalter and Maroney aren't able to get much done. Maroney had a few nice gains today though. Good thing is Moreno should be back next week and hopefully we can get him going, but it'll be against a pretty stout Jets defense.

I have serious issues with the team running forward. If we can't run the ball effectively, I don't think we will be able to keep passing the ball this well. Some of today's stats were meaningless and in garbage time and down the road, defenses will probably be able to limit Kyle and the pass if we cannot establish the run.

We also need to pass rush better and I think our safety play needs to step it up. Our defense had some admirable stops today, but nothing seemed to get rolling. But yeah, I hear you. We need to play more physical and we need to be a tougher team. Upgrade the stables. I don't think McDaniels would be at fault for toughness. Perhaps we'll bring in some different OL this off-season?

Who knows.

We're 2-3 and face a good Jets team next week. Better hope being at home helps.

meangene
10-10-2010, 01:30 PM
Yes, we're still less physical than the most physical team in the NFL, but far more so than Broncos teams in recent memory.

When you find the magic button to transform a team overnight, let me know, because I'll invest heavily.

I would bet there are a few franchise owners who would love that kind of technology.

The disappointing thing is not that we were less physical but that we weren't even close today. I agree that it seemed we had been getting more physical (bigger) but today was a real step backward in that department.

spdirty
10-10-2010, 01:31 PM
i bet our 2007 run defense could hold our current offense to 20 yards rushing.

this offensive line would make Nate Webster look like Patrick Willis.

epicSocialism4tw
10-10-2010, 01:32 PM
I guess if you'd never seen a Broncos/Ravens game before today, you could say they didn't look very tough out there today.

If you're comparing this Broncos team to others, however, it's pretty easy to see if you're paying attention.

We lacked execution today, not physicality.

I dont think you understood his point.

He's not talking about having players with steely looks on their faces. He's talking about what goes on where most fans dont watch.

Physical play takes place when the front 7 meets the offensive front. Its having the mentality that you are not going to get pushed off the line, but instead are going to make the play yourself.

This team is not physical.

If you can convince yourself that this is a physical team when they are on the fast track to setting franchise records (NFL records are possible too) in run game futility, then you can convince yourself of anything...including the idea that the Grateful Dead have enough good music in their catalogue to be a fan. ;D

Cito Pelon
10-10-2010, 01:33 PM
Don't get your panties all in a wad, fontaine. There's still 11 games to be played. Like I always say, when the going gets tough, the tough get going.

TheReverend
10-10-2010, 01:33 PM
Thanks. Also I've always supported the Scots whenever they've played England in the 6 nations!!

:strong:

Gross

TheReverend
10-10-2010, 01:35 PM
Don't get your panties all in a wad, fontaine. There's still 11 games to be played. Like I always say, when the going gets tough, the tough get going.

Fully agree with this.

I'm anxious to see how the team responds to some adversity. Last season when it came, they folded like a lawn chair. Time to see what Josh really has! Super exciting year, imo.

Dagmar
10-10-2010, 01:37 PM
Gross

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTs6TGU6RaJfd9bXzvITxlPnKO917luQ nOSzkQF0lcX-bQ0OHc&t=1&usg=__I7IlNypTxf5t9hZaGu_-AhObSPQ=

And folks, ignore dramallama, he was calling for Tebow in the game thread at 7 - 0

epicSocialism4tw
10-10-2010, 01:37 PM
Fully agree with this.

I'm anxious to see how the team responds to some adversity. Last season when it came, they folded like a lawn chair. Time to see what Josh really has! Super exciting year, imo.

If the team contineus to play like this and ends the year 7-9 or worse, he may be forced to go with Tebow full time next year.

Requiem
10-10-2010, 01:38 PM
Yeah, it should be exciting. I think we'll come back with a good effort against the Jets and a big win at home. 3-3 would seem appropriate after the first six opponents.

TheReverend
10-10-2010, 01:40 PM
If the team contineus to play like this and ends the year 7-9 or worse, he may be forced to go with Tebow full time next year.

Forced?

I think you mean "blessed".

Dedhed
10-10-2010, 01:41 PM
I dont think you understood his point.
I don't think you understand my point. I'm not saying this is a physically dominant team.

I'm saying it's far more physical than the "finesse" candy stripers we've put out there over the course of the 21st century.

broncosteven
10-10-2010, 01:43 PM
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTs6TGU6RaJfd9bXzvITxlPnKO917luQ nOSzkQF0lcX-bQ0OHc&t=1&usg=__I7IlNypTxf5t9hZaGu_-AhObSPQ=

And folks, ignore dramallama, he was calling for Tebow in the game thread at 7 - 0

It couldn't have been worse, maybe a little but the result would have been the same.

epicSocialism4tw
10-10-2010, 01:43 PM
I don't think you understand my point. I'm not saying this is a physically dominant team.

I'm saying it's far more physical than the "finesse" candy stripers we've put out there over the course of the 21st century.

Um...no.

This is a 100% finesse offense.

This is literally the worst running team in the entire league, in the history of this proud franchise, and maybe even the worst in the history of the NFL.

You seriously cannot call that a physical team.

broncosteven
10-10-2010, 01:44 PM
I don't think you understand my point. I'm not saying this is a physically dominant team.

I'm saying it's far more physical than the "finesse" candy stripers we've put out there over the course of the 21st century.

I think we are bigger but bigger doesn't always mean tougher. Sad thing is that today's D wasn't any better than Sloick's weak finness D's.

Dagmar
10-10-2010, 01:45 PM
It couldn't have been worse, maybe a little but the result would have been the same.

Pulling Orton when down a score or 2 in the 1st half?? Couldn't have been worse?

Josh losing the locker room 5 games in is a LOT worse Gene.

epicSocialism4tw
10-10-2010, 01:46 PM
It couldn't have been worse, maybe a little but the result would have been the same.

I have that clown on ignore, but I'll address that since he's wrong.

I said to put Tebow in at 17-0, and simply because I didnt want to see the team's only hope (Orton) get hurt.

Now please folks...dont quote the drama queen 'Dagmar'. ;D

scttgrd
10-10-2010, 01:47 PM
I don't think you understand my point. I'm not saying this is a physically dominant team.

I'm saying it's far more physical than the "finesse" candy stripers we've put out there over the course of the 21st century.

I'd like to see where you see anything resembling a physical game. Can't run the ball, can't stop a physical team from jamming it down their throats. How do you see this team competing with the big boys of the NFL?

broncosteven
10-10-2010, 01:48 PM
Pulling Orton when down a score or 2 in the 1st half?? Couldn't have been worse?

Josh losing the locker room 5 games in is a LOT worse Gene.

Fair enough. It is going to take a lot to keep the team on track as it is with all the woes on O/D/ST's.

bpc
10-10-2010, 01:49 PM
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTs6TGU6RaJfd9bXzvITxlPnKO917luQ nOSzkQF0lcX-bQ0OHc&t=1&usg=__I7IlNypTxf5t9hZaGu_-AhObSPQ=

And folks, ignore dramallama, he was calling for Tebow in the game thread at 7 - 0

That image is the best thing you've ever posted. And also the most correct.

broncosteven
10-10-2010, 01:49 PM
I have that clown on ignore, but I'll address that since he's wrong.

I said to put Tebow in at 17-0, and simply because I didnt want to see the team's only hope (Orton) get hurt.

Now please folks...dont quote the drama queen 'Dagmar'. ;D

I thought it was latter than that, I remember you saying the thing about risking Orton to injury in the thread while we were down 17.

fontaine
10-10-2010, 01:51 PM
I don't think you understand my point. I'm not saying this is a physically dominant team.

I'm saying it's far more physical than the "finesse" candy stripers we've put out there over the course of the 21st century.

What I saw out there was a finesse offense that couldn't pass protect when B'more rushed more than 3 and got mauled and pushed around in the run game.

The majority of our points came when B'more went into protect D with soft coverage. Hell it wouldn't matter if this was a once off but we've seen this from week 1, so it's a serious trend of an offense going in the wrong direction.

epicSocialism4tw
10-10-2010, 01:52 PM
I thought it was latter than that, I remember you saying the thing about risking Orton to injury in the thread while we were down 17.

With the Broncos down 17-0, out of frustration (and seeing Orton 'scrambling' to save his life on every play) I said to pull him and put Tebow in to keep him from getting hurt. Later with the Broncos down 31-10 I said to pull Orton as well.

Dagmar
10-10-2010, 01:52 PM
I thought it was latter than that, I remember you saying the thing about risking Orton to injury in the thread while we were down 17.

Give up down 17 when we get the ball to start the 2nd half?

And I'm the drama queen??

broncosteven
10-10-2010, 01:53 PM
I will say that the 2008 OL was freaking nasty and much more physical than this years OL.

Taco John
10-10-2010, 01:54 PM
I'm saying it's far more physical than the "finesse" candy stripers we've put out there over the course of the 21st century.


This is probably the most finesse offense we've seen in Broncos history.

TheProfessor
10-10-2010, 01:54 PM
I'm not sure what it is, coaching/talent/experience/injuries/AllofTheAbove, but this offensive line is terrible. We all know the run game struggles, but the interior is struggling in pass pro also. Things better change soon or this is going to get ugly.

broncosteven
10-10-2010, 01:55 PM
Give up down 17 when we get the ball to start the 2nd half?

And I'm the drama queen??

You didn't start posting until we were down big and then it seemed you were just there to defend mCd's honor. He did say that there was an injury risk. I think we should move on from this point and keep this thread on topic.

:sunshine:

epicSocialism4tw
10-10-2010, 01:59 PM
I'm not sure what it is, coaching/talent/experience/injuries/AllofTheAbove, but this offensive line is terrible. We all know the run game struggles, but the interior is struggling in pass pro also. Things better change soon or this is going to get ugly.

Opposing defensive linemen have to be licking their chops when they see these guys on the schedule.

I noticed that the Ravens schemed to confuse Walton and the guards specifically. They would blitz off of Walton to either side and force him to make a choice, which he failed on a few times. A couple of times Ray Lewis came through unimpeded and was held resulting in holding penalties.

Dagmar
10-10-2010, 01:59 PM
You didn't start posting until we were down big and then it seemed you were just there to defend mCd's honor. He did say that there was an injury risk. I think we should move on from this point and keep this thread on topic.

:sunshine:

What???
I posted at 1131am. In the game thread. Get your facts straight.

broncosteven
10-10-2010, 02:00 PM
This is probably the most finesse offense we've seen in Broncos history.

I think mCd keeps trying to pound it because he wants to be physical but he can't will a team to become physical.

I would like to see him use more finesse in the run game because they do have success running out of the shotgun or with endruns (minus penalties away from the play). They are not going to turn into maulers in a week or 2.

The thing I have the most trouble with mCd is his unwillingness to play to his players strengths (outside of the passing game).

Continuing to line up in an all OL set or jumbo set on 1st and 10 or 3rd and 1 and trying to maul a D is not going to work. It will be another year before we can go toe to toe and maul D's. Bring in more run formations!

TheReverend
10-10-2010, 02:03 PM
I think mCd keeps trying to pound it because he wants to be physical but he can't will a team to become physical.

I would like to see him use more finesse in the run game because they do have success running out of the shotgun or with endruns (minus penalties away from the play). They are not going to turn into maulers in a week or 2.

The thing I have the most trouble with mCd is his unwillingness to play to his players strengths (outside of the passing game).

Continuing to line up in an all OL set or jumbo set on 1st and 10 or 3rd and 1 and trying to maul a D is not going to work. It will be another year before we can go toe to toe and maul D's. Bring in more run formations!

It's actually his will that decides how physical they are......

broncosteven
10-10-2010, 02:03 PM
What???
I posted at 1131am. In the game thread. Get your facts straight.

Then I am corrected, I didn't see you until we were down 14 but we were down 14 pretty quick...

Sorry

Dagmar
10-10-2010, 02:05 PM
Then I am corrected, I didn't see you until we were down 14 but we were down 14 pretty quick...

Sorry

Yup, my fan balls are HUGE.

:strong: :approve: :strong:

broncosteven
10-10-2010, 02:05 PM
It's actually his will that decides how physical they are......

I think I know what your saying, too bad it doesn't translate to games.

NFLBRONCO
10-10-2010, 02:08 PM
Until we add youth and legit talent to DE spot we'll never be tough. Shanny and so far McD's haven't addressed it. The FA DL moves helped this year but, they can't get to QB.

broncosteven
10-10-2010, 02:08 PM
Opposing defensive linemen have to be licking their chops when they see these guys on the schedule.

I noticed that the Ravens schemed to confuse Walton and the guards specifically. They would blitz off of Walton to either side and force him to make a choice, which he failed on a few times. A couple of times Ray Lewis came through unimpeded and was held resulting in holding penalties.

It's easy to see that when Walton makes a bad decision it effects the other guys play.

There was a holding call on walton because he could not see Lewis blitzing and he decided to help Kuper and then when Lewis blitzed Walton was out of position and had to hold.

We should have brought in a Vet to TC last year just to teach...

broncosteven
10-10-2010, 02:09 PM
Until we add youth and legit talent to DE spot we'll never be tough. Shanny and so far McD's haven't addressed it. The FA DL moves helped this year but, they can't get to QB.

Neither can Tebow.

epicSocialism4tw
10-10-2010, 02:12 PM
It's easy to see that when Walton makes a bad decision it effects the other guys play.

There was a holding call on walton because he could not see Lewis blitzing and he decided to help Kuper and then when Lewis blitzed Walton was out of position and had to hold.

We should have brought in a Vet to TC last year just to teach...

It would have been wise to have done that. I agree.

TonyR
10-10-2010, 02:15 PM
It was bad but maybe not quite as bad as some think. We were "only" down 10 at the end of 3 quarters. In the 4th quarter the defense ran out of gas.

I see Tennessee, the team we beat on the road last week, is dominating a very talented Dallas team in Dallas.

Requiem
10-10-2010, 02:16 PM
Any given Sunday. ANY SUNDAY BRO.

broncosteven
10-10-2010, 02:19 PM
It was bad but maybe not quite as bad as some think. We were "only" down 10 at the end of 3 quarters. In the 4th quarter the defense ran out of gas.

I see Tennessee, the team we beat on the road last week, is dominating a very talented Dallas team in Dallas.

If we would have got 3 out of the 1st drive to start the 2nd half then I would agree but we didn't score again until 5 minutes to go in the 4th and then it was only a FG.

TonyR
10-10-2010, 02:29 PM
...we didn't score again until 5 minutes to go in the 4th and then it was only a FG.

We got the FG with 11:50 left. And they should have challenged the previous 3rd down play because the WR (Gaffney?) got his knee down and we would have had a first down and a chance to score a TD on the drive.

CEH
10-10-2010, 02:38 PM
It was bad but maybe not quite as bad as some think. We were "only" down 10 at the end of 3 quarters. In the 4th quarter the defense ran out of gas.

I see Tennessee, the team we beat on the road last week, is dominating a very talented Dallas team in Dallas.

The two plays that stick out in my mind was the TE not coming down with a nice pass from Orton to start the 2nd half and then Flacco scramble for a first that led to a TD instead of a punt

One of those two plays makes this a close game heading into the 4th

epicSocialism4tw
10-10-2010, 02:43 PM
The two plays that stick out in my mind was the TE not coming down with a nice pass from Orton to start the 2nd half
One of those two plays makes this a close game heading into the 4th

Thats what happens when you put scrubs in important positions.

broncosteven
10-10-2010, 03:19 PM
We got the FG with 11:50 left. And they should have challenged the previous 3rd down play because the WR (Gaffney?) got his knee down and we would have had a first down and a chance to score a TD on the drive.

So we were down 14 after the FG with 11 minutes to go and then gave up another TD. You don't win many games being down 17 to start the 4th quarter, even John only won a couple 3 score comebacks.

broncosteven
10-10-2010, 03:21 PM
The two plays that stick out in my mind was the TE not coming down with a nice pass from Orton to start the 2nd half and then Flacco scramble for a first that led to a TD instead of a punt

One of those two plays makes this a close game heading into the 4th

Gronk was featured on 2 3rd down plays late in the game. Usually you want your playmakers being featured but maybe they saw some potential in Gronk during practice.

WolfpackGuy
10-10-2010, 03:39 PM
The team was beaten to the punch way too many times today.

I knew they were done when they punted to open the second half.

At least it was great tailgating/game weather!

extralife
10-10-2010, 03:44 PM
I just don't see any real difference between this team and the teams of '07 or '08. We haven't gone anywhere.

colonelbeef
10-10-2010, 03:53 PM
We were told when mCd took over that the move to a Power run game would help us convert on 3rd down and inside the redzone.

Not only have we not seen a 1K or better RB in mCd's tenure but the OL went from one of the best in the league to the absolute worst. Even duh bears OL is better, just on run stats alone.

Our D is about the same as it has been since week 7 of 2006.

Our secondary isn't any better that it was.

We are not any tougher, if anything we are a weaker team because we cannot run at all.

Our passing attack can generate yards but not alot of points.

ST's are still a liability.

We need another full offseason cycle where we DRAFT DL and OL depth to get to the point where we can compete with teams like Ravens or Jets.

I still think that it might have been prudent to draft a DL this past draft rather getting Tebow who will not return any benefits until next year or even 2012...

But I am sure there is something popps will find to make him proud of the team and see that we are close to turning it around.

the painful truth right here folks.

quick Poops, grab those pom poms and cheer us to victory!

fontaine
10-10-2010, 03:56 PM
I just don't see any real difference between this team and the teams of '07 or '08. We haven't gone anywhere.

I'll just make one important note.

Our teams in the past had far betting OL/RB coaching.

Even when this team was devastated with OL/RB injuries and sub talent OL they did enough to keep the ground game respectable.

So much so, that they almost thrived on the adversity, that they looked upon OL/RB injuries almost as a badge of honor to STILL be able to run the football better than most teams.

This current coaching/running game has no such ability.

From what I see, this OL is not well coached when they can't handle stunts/twists from DL and LBers that shoot the gaps.

elsid13
10-10-2010, 03:59 PM
This offense isn't physical offense it is a pass happy wanna be run and shoot. They might as well go full bore and go to modified run&shoot/spread offense and run the ball only when there aren't 7 in the box.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-10-2010, 04:01 PM
I just don't see any real difference between this team and the teams of '07 or '08. We haven't gone anywhere.

Actually the differences are astronomical, just the results are similar.

scttgrd
10-10-2010, 04:07 PM
Actually the differences are astronomical, just the results are similar.

So all that change and the draft picks was a wash? Boy, we really are on one of those five year plans. How does that sit with you?

epicSocialism4tw
10-10-2010, 04:07 PM
This offense isn't physical offense it is a pass happy wanna be run and shoot. They might as well go full bore and go to modified run&shoot/spread offense and run the ball only when there aren't 7 in the box.

I agree. Play from the shotgun. Run draws and counters from the shotgun.

There is basically no point in lining up over center because the team cant execute what they need to from there to warrant continuing.

broncosteven
10-10-2010, 04:28 PM
This offense isn't physical offense it is a pass happy wanna be run and shoot. They might as well go full bore and go to modified run&shoot/spread offense and run the ball only when there aren't 7 in the box.

I agree, they have to spread out D's in order to give the RB's a chance to find a hole. I think Voltron was dancing less today but he can't make the 1st guy miss and if he sees a guy coming he goes down. Give him a chance by making the D think a pass is coming.

When you line up in an all OL set with no WR's you make it easy for a D to guess what is coming. Unless your going to use that formation in a pass play later or your having repeatable success with it stop running it.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-10-2010, 04:29 PM
So all that change and the draft picks was a wash? Boy, we really are on one of those five year plans. How does that sit with you?

I wasn't claiming that I was pleased with the results, i was just commenting that this team in no way resembles those teams. Though if you must have a common denominator, hows frustration?

scttgrd
10-10-2010, 04:37 PM
I wasn't claiming that I was pleased with the results, i was just commenting that this team in no way resembles those teams. Though if you must have a common denominator, hows frustration?

It really sucks, we were sold a bill of goods about how this team was going to be more physical and able to compete. Now it looks just like the old ways are rearing thier ugly head and nothing has changed. I agree, frustrating.

TonyR
10-10-2010, 04:54 PM
It really sucks, we were sold a bill of goods about how this team was going to be more physical and able to compete.

I agree that today sucked and was frustrating but we certainly competed last week. The Ravens are one of the best teams in the league and clearly we're not at that level, particularly on the road, but I'm not sure things are as terrible as some of you think in the shadow of today's game. Except the running game, which is that terrible.

TheChamp24
10-10-2010, 04:59 PM
Lets just no huddle defenses to death.

gunns
10-10-2010, 05:00 PM
I think it's time to put Barone, Wylie and Studesville on the hot seat. Our starters were all out there on the OL, yes there may have been some rust but damn.

oubronco
10-10-2010, 05:02 PM
I see popps is being a dyck like usual

Steve Sewell
10-10-2010, 05:13 PM
The only injury that would have changed the game today is Doom's. Losing him changed the entire face of the entire season.

Even without the injuries and the numerous mental mistakes, the Broncos were most likely not gonna win this game. The Ravens are a top team with the kind of talent on both lines that we just don't have yet, as well as Flacco, Rice, Boldin, Housh, etc. They are a bonafide Super Bowl contender IMHO.

I agree with this. Baltimore is a team that is pretty damn loaded and will be tough to beat by any team when they're playing at home.

However, Josh is selling a "tougher, smarter" team yet the Broncos went in and got their asses handed to them physically and made A LOT of mental errors.

If the Broncos don't find a running game, they're going to KILL the defense by mid-year. Today was a microcosm of that. The defense kept them in the game for most of the day but were flat out gassed when it got to crunch time.

vancejohnson82
10-10-2010, 05:26 PM
I've been hearing so far in the year that we're a "tougher" team.

I still don't see it. Apart from one quarter where we pushed around Flacco (because they got pass happy - Good job by Hunter) our defense gave up yards and TDs until they got completely tired in the 2nd half and B'more and their rushing game stoned our front 7.

Our offense though makes our defense look like the steel curtain. We look like a JV team in terms of the OL. Orton was once again chased around in the pocket, the RBs beaten up behind the line of scrimmage and the ravens man handled and rag dolled our OL. We pretty much cried uncle and gave up the running game once it was obvious just how badly we were executing out there.

I lost count of the amount of the times our OL was holding because they simply got beat, even by their LBers where our OL should have had a size advantage.

Oh yeah, but Orton and the passing game racked up a lot of meaningless yards (unless they were in the red zone where once again they sucked) so I guess it's okay.

This isn't meant to be a "Denver/Josh sucks thread" but a reality check. Our OL has become a huge liability taking the rest of the offense down with it. Until we fix that from coaching on down we're going nowhere.

Kuper/Harris/Hochstein/Clady started today with Walton. So the injury excuses have run out.

yea...ok

goalline stand...stuffed them down by 10 in our own territory twice...10 penalites for 90 yards in 2 1/2 quarters...no turnovers...3 times they had a chance in the first half to end the game....we hung in there......go eat ****

figures **** like this would come out today

extralife
10-10-2010, 05:27 PM
yea...ok

goalline stand...stuffed them down by 10... 3 times...go eat ****

so because we stopped them on the goal line once, we are all good? those other times didn't matter? what the hell are you even trying to say? do you have a brain?

broncosteven
10-10-2010, 05:46 PM
yea...ok

goalline stand...stuffed them down by 10 in our own territory twice...10 penalites for 90 yards in 2 1/2 quarters...no turnovers...3 times they had a chance in the first half to end the game....we hung in there......go eat ****

figures **** like this would come out today

If they didn't try throwing to their DE the may have converted. We are just lucky that DJ(?) saw it and dropped into coverage. We got lucky the made a bad play call but the D did finish that play, I think that was the only sack of the game.

Dedhed
10-10-2010, 07:07 PM
I think we are bigger but bigger doesn't always mean tougher. Sad thing is that today's D wasn't any better than Sloick's weak finness D's.

Previous Broncos teams would have folded like a Chinese fan last week after the QB went down 6 times, and the running game was impotent.

Then they would have worn down to nothing under the pressure of going up against a real physical football team.

This team is tougher physically and mentally than we've seen in awhile.

Unfortunately they're also much more inexperienced, and have trouble executing on a consistent basis.

TotallyScrewed
10-10-2010, 08:12 PM
Josh's stubborn streak doesn't help the passing game at all. Runs up the middle for -1 and -2 yards is bullshiat. There's no way that weak play calling is helping a thing.

This team can not afford to throw away possessions.

Missouribronc
10-10-2010, 08:17 PM
O-ver-re-action :clap: :clap: :clapclapclap: Over-re-action :clap: :clap: :clapclapclap:

scttgrd
10-10-2010, 10:42 PM
O-ver-re-action :clap: :clap: :clapclapclap: Over-re-action :clap: :clap: :clapclapclap:

Until this team has some talent to rely on you can keep clapping, it won't make much difference. Not until they can run when the other team knows it's coming will there be much of a change. Push it down their throats. That is when this team makes strides on offense.

strafen
10-10-2010, 11:14 PM
I think it's time to put Barone, Wylie and Studesville on the hot seat. Our starters were all out there on the OL, yes there may have been some rust but damn.That's what happens when you replace R. Dennison, B.Turner and Mike Nolan with inferior substitutes
Yet nobody has even mentioned the impact of losing Dennison and Turner have done to our running game...

fontaine
10-11-2010, 02:26 AM
The OL last week had issues picking up the DL during stunts and twists (19 rushing attempts, 5 tackles for a loss).

This game they had issues with Ray Lewis shooting the inside gaps (13 rushing attempts, 4 tackles for a loss) and plenty of holding calls resulting from guys picking up man late or not at all.

It just looks like these guys are not picking up changes along the front 7, not adjusting when both the Titans/Ravens have been doing stuff like that for years. You have to question the OL coaching when our OL gets easily confused with relatively simple stuff like this.

It would be easy to fix if it was just one guy making most of the mistakes ( you just bench him), but it's not. The problems are all over the OL and it's not just an execution issue but a coaching one as well.

Here's a question to start off with: Do we even have a backup Center or did we go into the season with just a rookie?

fontaine
10-11-2010, 02:32 AM
"They're just so good," Orton said. "It's tough to play them anywhere. Just be honest, they beat us up today."

Denver coach Josh McDaniels concurred.

"I'm disappointed. We didn't play as tough as certainly you're going to need to against a team like this," he said. "This is the first time I thought our mental toughness was questioned."

The Joker
10-11-2010, 02:35 AM
Here's a question to start off with: Do we even have a backup Center or did we go into the season with just a rookie?

Pretty sure Hochstein can play Center as well and would be the guy who'd take over that spot if they felt they needed to pull Walton.

fontaine
10-11-2010, 02:46 AM
Pretty sure Hochstein can play Center as well and would be the guy who'd take over that spot if they felt they needed to pull Walton.

Good, at least we have an option there if Walton continues to struggle every game with line calls and picking up run blitzes.

The Joker
10-11-2010, 03:11 AM
Good, at least we have an option there if Walton continues to struggle every game with line calls and picking up run blitzes.

Yeah, nice to have another guy in reserve who can come in and suck even moreso if the rookie needs to sit down. :strong:

colonelbeef
10-11-2010, 06:16 AM
That's what happens when you replace R. Dennison, B.Turner and Mike Nolan with inferior substitutes
Yet nobody has even mentioned the impact of losing Dennison and Turner have done to our running game...

you know how it works- if you are talented, you are out.

McDaniels wants yes men, not gifted football people.

jhns
10-11-2010, 06:18 AM
We are bigger, better, and deeper at every position! Some of the guys we got rid of aren't even in the NFL! How can you not see it?!?!???!

The people that use these arguments must really think Josh is a horrible coach.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-11-2010, 06:34 AM
you know how it works- if you are talented, you are out.

McDaniels wants yes men, not gifted football people.

What a ****ing retarded statement.

Dumervil. Kuper. Dawkins. Lloyd. Orton. Thomas.

Seriously. You are retarded. GTFO.

go_broncos
10-11-2010, 06:41 AM
tougher team..my ****
Committing stupid penalties on every drive..
Can't run the ball..
A Coach who wants to throw the ball every down..
We don't have any identity..

TheChamp24
10-11-2010, 06:46 AM
Yeah, tougher team, by waving the white flag and calling a run up the middle on 3rd and long.
Or not going for it on 4th down.

go_broncos
10-11-2010, 06:56 AM
We never won consecutive games after 6-0 start.
Bowlen did a mistake in hiring Mcd...
He should have gone after an experienced coach.

fontaine
10-11-2010, 07:42 AM
We never won consecutive games after 6-0 start.
Bowlen did a mistake in hiring Mcd...
He should have gone after an experienced coach.

I don't think Josh should be fired. Not for one second.

Firstly it's way to early to tell how he's developing as a head coach and secondly it would only further set back this franchise.

I just think that we can do far better than 2.2 yards a clip with 4/5 tackles behind the line of scrimmage and routine holding calls no matter what our injuries are.

I don't blame Josh for that. But I do think he should have done better than the current OL/RB coaching staff when it was only a matter of time before Dennison and Turner left as well as doing better than going into the season with scrubs like Daniels/Baptiste and two rookies.

We traded Scheff/Smith/Hillis in the offseason and that's fine with me but we didn't address a pretty glaring weakeness along the interior of the OL by trading for a veteran Guard or even signing one in the offseason.

We can trade a 4th for a hesitant, finesse RB in Maroney in week 1 but we can't trade for a serviceable Guard/Center?

I really don't get that, considering you look at Weigmann now and he's back in KC and helping them be among the league's best at running the football.

zdoor
10-11-2010, 07:47 AM
This is probably the most finesse offense we've seen in Broncos history.

Agree completely.

vancejohnson82
10-11-2010, 08:15 AM
so because we stopped them on the goal line once, we are all good? those other times didn't matter? what the hell are you even trying to say? do you have a brain?

the ****tards like you come out on Sunday nights after losses and troll the board with **** like this

its why this place is unbearable at times

TailgateNut
10-11-2010, 08:34 AM
the ****tards like you come out on Sunday nights after losses and troll the board with **** like this

its why this place is unbearable at times

...at times??? It's beginning to be the norm with the likes of jhns, gobroncos, colonel-i have a-beef, and a few select others who just can't help bashing the team, the coach(es) and players on a daily basis. Granted, we do need get our **** together but considering the fact that we have a number of top players out on injured reserve or who have been dealing with injuries, it's not the end of the world as we know it.

go_broncos
10-11-2010, 08:36 AM
...at times??? It's beginning to be the norm with the likes of jhns, gobroncos, colonel-i have a-beef, and a few select others who just can't help bashing the team, the coach(es) and players on a daily basis. Granted, we do need get our **** together but considering the fact that we have a number of top players out on injured reserve or who have been dealing with injuries, it's not the end of the world as we know it.

great..you have problems with us bashing the coach and the team..
But, never have an issue with the coach that keeps losing the games..

vancejohnson82
10-11-2010, 08:36 AM
...at times??? It's beginning to be the norm with the likes of jhns, gobroncos, colonel-i have a-beef, and a few select others who just can't help bashing the team, the coach(es) and players on a daily basis. Granted, we do need get our **** together but considering the fact that we have a number of top players out on injured reserve or who have been dealing with injuries, it's not the end of the world as we know it.

we just played what might be the most physical team in the league...and maybe the best, without a number of our top guys in there...on the road...after playing on the road in another difficult place

i understand completely when we go out there and lay eggs at the end of the year to the Chiefs or Raiders...but cmon, this is ridiculous

Dagmar
10-11-2010, 08:37 AM
...at times??? It's beginning to be the norm with the likes of jhns, gobroncos, colonel-i have a-beef, and a few select others who just can't help bashing the team, the coach(es) and players on a daily basis. Granted, we do need get our **** together but considering the fact that we have a number of top players out on injured reserve or who have been dealing with injuries, it's not the end of the world as we know it.

They'll all scrabble back to their holes when we pound the Jets next week. :thumbs:

Tombstone RJ
10-11-2010, 08:43 AM
tougher team..my ****
Committing stupid penalties on every drive..
Can't run the ball..
A Coach who wants to throw the ball every down..
We don't have any identity..

dude, seriously, you can call holding on every single snap. I don't know why the refs called it on the Broncos and let it slide on the Ravens. I watch Ayers get pulled down by a tackle right in front of the ref and there was NO CALL.

I'm sorry, this kind of flagrant favoritisim by the refs absolutely makes the games meaningless. Granted, the Broncos did not play well but the refs called a bunch of crap on the Broncos and let that same crap slide on the Ravens.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-11-2010, 08:49 AM
great..you have problems with us bashing the coach and the team..
But, never have an issue with the coach that keeps losing the games..

Yet another poor argument.

Do you really believe that nobody has a problem with losing games? Are you ****ing stupid?

The difference is some of us look at the bright side -- which exists, by the way -- and looks for things to build on, while the others (yourself, that well-put together list above) see no light, see only darkness, and just bitch bitch bitch.

The difference is that after wins, you all seem to disappear into your holes, and after losses you're right back here to talk ****.

I get as tired of the "true fan" business as everyone else, but your fanhood is actually lacking. you take joy in tearing down the team, players, coaches, organization at every opportunity, while the rest of us are looking at things logically, thinking things through, and commenting on the good AND the bad.

Have you ever seen anyone say that our running game is fine as-is? Of course not.

Have you ever seen anyone say that our special teams are perfect? Of course not.

Have you ever seen anyone say that Orton's yardage numbers matter more than victories? No, of course not.

Yet these are the arguments you throw out, pretending as if those of us who look at the whole picture simply don't see the truth, or are so blinded that we don't criticize the team in any way. It's total ****ing bull****.

Open your ****ing eyes. Get on the team. And if you hate what's going on here so much, there are 31 other franchises for you to choose from. I'm sure they need contrarian, "truth-telling" fans as well.

rbackfactory80
10-11-2010, 08:53 AM
dude, seriously, you can call holding on every single snap. I don't know why the refs called it on the Broncos and let it slide on the Ravens. I watch Ayers get pulled down by a tackle right in front of the ref and there was NO CALL.

I'm sorry, this kind of flagrant favoritisim by the refs absolutely makes the games meaningless. Granted, the Broncos did not play well but the refs called a bunch of crap on the Broncos and let that same crap slide on the Ravens.

Its Karma actually. McDaniels made his speech about how dirty the Titans are and how thy could draw 10 flags on any play and it came back to bite us. Goodell probably ordered the Refs to call anything remotely close to a penalty. He was probably upset about the comments. Really did seem uneven out there.

TailgateNut
10-11-2010, 09:23 AM
great..you have problems with us bashing the coach and the team..
But, never have an issue with the coach that keeps losing the games..


You are a ****ing flaming idiot. Period! Go join the likes of jhns, Lex, and broncofan7.

TonyR
10-11-2010, 09:26 AM
The Broncos committed 10 penalties for 90 yards, out of character for a team that had only 22 flags in the previous four games.

Read more: Ravens 31, Broncos 17: Bests, worsts and the ex factor - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16306307#ixzz124IGEWDJ

broncosteven
10-11-2010, 09:43 AM
The OL last week had issues picking up the DL during stunts and twists (19 rushing attempts, 5 tackles for a loss).

This game they had issues with Ray Lewis shooting the inside gaps (13 rushing attempts, 4 tackles for a loss) and plenty of holding calls resulting from guys picking up man late or not at all.

It just looks like these guys are not picking up changes along the front 7, not adjusting when both the Titans/Ravens have been doing stuff like that for years. You have to question the OL coaching when our OL gets easily confused with relatively simple stuff like this.

It would be easy to fix if it was just one guy making most of the mistakes ( you just bench him), but it's not. The problems are all over the OL and it's not just an execution issue but a coaching one as well.

Here's a question to start off with: Do we even have a backup Center or did we go into the season with just a rookie?

Very valid points.

I still go back to them trying to run out of formations that scream "WE ARE RUNNING THE BALL THIS PLAY, TRY AND STOP US! BEOTCH! then wonder why we get stuffed.

Lining up in a NO WR jumbo set screams run, when that gets stuffed time to try to spread a D out and catch them thinking pass.

TheReverend
10-11-2010, 09:49 AM
Its Karma actually. McDaniels made his speech about how dirty the Titans are and how thy could draw 10 flags on any play and it came back to bite us. Goodell probably ordered the Refs to call anything remotely close to a penalty. He was probably upset about the comments. Really did seem uneven out there.

I dunno... we had some really blatant holds, and you can't fake delay of game

worm
10-11-2010, 10:05 AM
I'm sorry, this kind of flagrant favoritisim by the refs absolutely makes the games meaningless. Granted, the Broncos did not play well but the refs called a bunch of crap on the Broncos and let that same crap slide on the Ravens.

Its Karma actually. McDaniels made his speech about how dirty the Titans are and how thy could draw 10 flags on any play and it came back to bite us. Goodell probably ordered the Refs to call anything remotely close to a penalty. He was probably upset about the comments. Really did seem uneven out there.

Ya'll solved the issue!!!! Its the refs fault.

rbackfactory80
10-11-2010, 11:02 AM
I dunno... we had some really blatant holds, and you can't fake delay of game

Yeah there were but I saw many uncalled on them such as PI, Holding and face masks. That officiating crew averages the most calls in the NFL and you have to make the on the fence calls against both teams.

fontaine
10-24-2010, 03:07 PM
Bump.

Still not a smarter/tougher team. It's even worse than the way B'more dominated us.

Except the excuses give two weeks ago were that B'more are a bigger team, they're one of the best, we played them on the road etc etc.

Except now it's the raiders dominating us in the trenches capped by stupid turnovers on our part.

I wonder what the excuses will be this week.

fontaine
10-31-2010, 01:12 PM
I suppose we showed some improvement this week.

We went from blowing to just plain sucking.

But at least we're consistent. Guaranteed to suck at running the ball, defending the run and STs.

Oh yeah, at least we avoided having the weekly 9 men on the field **** up.

This week it was 12.