View Full Version : GOP Gives Climate Science A Cold Shoulder
The teabaggers are an anti-science, anti-reason, anti-fact, anti-evidence movement of imbeciles.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazine/print_friendly.php?ID=nj_20101009_9888
Rohirrim
10-11-2010, 08:05 AM
The Republicans have been fighting tooth and nail for fifty years to change policies in this country so that the majority of the wealth is funneled to the top and all social programs are destroyed. They are on the threshhold of victory. They now have an entire movement of dupes, the Tea baggers, who are totally supportive of their interests and policies. They are about to take back the House and regain control of the nation's purse. To allow climate warming to come into the picture right now would ruin everything they've worked for. Climate warming, by its very nature, demands that government create regulations on industry and national behavior. They'll never allow that.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-11-2010, 09:00 AM
The Republicans have been fighting tooth and nail for fifty years to change policies in this country so that the majority of the wealth is funneled to the top and all social programs are destroyed. They are on the threshhold of victory. They now have an entire movement of dupes, the Tea baggers, who are totally supportive of their interests and policies. They are about to take back the House and regain control of the nation's purse. To allow climate warming to come into the picture right now would ruin everything they've worked for. Climate warming, by its very nature, demands that government create regulations on industry and national behavior. They'll never allow that.
Exactly.
Teabaggers and republi-con psychology seems to mirror that of the battered spouse syndrome, e.g., no matter how many times these fools get their collective ass kicked by their abusive spouse, (read: GOP) they just keep making excuses for him and keep coming back for more...
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2008/04/img/record_gas_prices_large.jpg
Climate science. That's rich. You lost the right to call it science when you started making up the data.
You global warming guys have become the Glenn Becks of the science world. You may be right but you are a little too crazy and your delivery a little too nutty to be taken seriously. Both seem to seamlessly merge fact and religion.
barryr
10-11-2010, 01:24 PM
Interesting news: hurricane season despite the usual scare tactics by the left, was practically nonexistent once again this year. But yes, it was global warming, oh no global cooling, oops again, climate change(yeah, that's what we call it now) that made the hurricanes stay away. But wouldn't that be a good thing? Hmm, liberals can't really spin this to their agenda, so what to do? Oh, I know, the usual: pretend it didn't happen and not talk about it. Yeah, that's only been their tactic for the past 40 years.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-11-2010, 01:31 PM
^ It was only a matter of time before these two little foot soldiers for Exxon chimed in with their warmed-over Limbaugh talking points.
DBruleU
10-11-2010, 01:32 PM
^ It was only a matter of time before these two little foot soldiers for Exxon chimed in with their warmed-over Limbaugh talking points.
Errr...yeah. Because your little take earlier in this thread with the pic attached was pretty enlightening.
barryr
10-11-2010, 01:35 PM
^ It was only a matter of time before these two little foot soldiers for Exxon chimed in with their warmed-over Limbaugh talking points.
Rich coming from a George Soros goon.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-11-2010, 01:35 PM
Errr...yeah. Because your little take earlier in this thread with the pic attached was pretty enlightening.
Apparently not enlightening enough insofar as the only part of said take you seem to have noticed was the pic.
Odds are you're one of those guys who doesn't read much - you probably just look at the pictures. Ha!
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-11-2010, 01:36 PM
Rich coming from a George Soros goon.
ExxonMobil --> George Soros.
Now there's an equation only a ditto monkey could make. Ha!
barryr
10-11-2010, 01:37 PM
Apparently not enlightening enough insofar as the only part of said take you seem to have noticed was the pic.
Odds are you're one of those guys who doesn't read much - you probably just look at the pictures. Ha!
Someone who lives in cartoons and acts like one :thumbsup:
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-11-2010, 01:42 PM
Someone who lives in cartoons and acts like one :thumbsup:
Wow - your little brain must have been positively straining to come up with this incisive rebuttal.
Kudos to your special ed teacher. :thumbsup:
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-11-2010, 01:43 PM
Wow - the way the right-wing brain trust is repping Exxon-Mobil, et al, on this thread, those climate scientists must be quaking in their boots.
Ha!
barryr
10-11-2010, 02:59 PM
Wow - your little brain must have been positively straining to come up with this incisive rebuttal.
Kudos to your special ed teacher. :thumbsup:
Yes, coming up with cartoons does take much intelligence I'm sure. Well, for you yes :rofl:
barryr
10-11-2010, 03:01 PM
Wow - the way the right-wing brain trust is repping Exxon-Mobil, et al, on this thread, those climate scientists must be quaking in their boots.
Ha!
Yeah, just like a typical liberal idiot. Liberals accuse of others of living in black and white yet it is them who pull that crap more than anybody. Because BS is pointed out in the global warming scamming it automatically means people side with the oil companies. Yeah, I see so much cheering going on flor Exxon and others around here. Stick to yourt cartoons, at least they make more sense than your own comments.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-11-2010, 03:05 PM
Yes, coming up with cartoons does take much intelligence I'm sure. Well, for you yes :rofl:
Apparently those cartoons test the limits of your intelligence on a daily basis insofar as your "rebuttals" begin and end with whining about them.
Oh well, at least your constant sniveling about them confirms that their messages are right on target. :thumbsup:
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-11-2010, 03:08 PM
Yeah, just like a typical liberal idiot. Liberals accuse of others of living in black and white yet it is them who pull that crap more than anybody. Because BS is pointed out in the global warming scamming it automatically means people side with the oil companies. Yeah, I see so much cheering going on flor Exxon and others around here. Stick to yourt cartoons, at least they make more sense than your own comments.
That's just it - right-wing lemmings and GW denialists like you haven't pointed anything out - you've merely served as loyal little propaganda mouthpieces for the same energy companies who f_cked you in the ass when GeeDubya was in the WH and who can't wait to f_ck you again should you decide to help the repigs return to power.
Climate science. That's rich. You lost the right to call it science when you started making up the data.
What data?
Show me.
]Because BS is pointed out in the global warming scamming [...]
Examples, please.
Like we need to do this for the 1000th time. Yawn.
barryr
10-11-2010, 03:47 PM
Examples, please.
What for? This has already been done countless times, while you claim all scientists who don't say what you want aren't real scientists even though you know nothing about them. You global warmists do not want debate. You feel you know the truth and even if have to make up data, so be it. Even Al Gore runs and hides when asked to debate.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-11-2010, 03:50 PM
What for?
Um, because when you make an accusation it's incumbent on you to prove it?
But I guess you don't learn such fundamental principles from Glenn Beck and Reahab Rush, do you?
Ha!
Yawn. Wake me up when the water reaches the foot of the Alps.
barryr
10-11-2010, 04:17 PM
Um, because when you make an accusation it's incumbent on you to prove it?
But I guess you don't learn such fundamental principles from Glenn Beck and Reahab Rush, do you?
Ha!
This from a mentally challenged fool who thinks using cartoons proves points LOL
cutthemdown
10-11-2010, 04:44 PM
What's interesting about climate change is that even the ones who say it's from co2 admit that we probably can't stop it. Why? Because China, India, Indonesia, Brazil etc are growing so fast there co2 output is going to increasing over the next decades.
Better would be to adjust and adapt. Wasting money on solar power and wind power when those things are more expensive doesn't help the USA. Electric cars won't help environment. The batteries and rape of the earth for lithium etc etc will far out weigh any benefits.
cutthemdown
10-11-2010, 04:46 PM
Yawn. Wake me up when the water reaches the foot of the Alps.
If sea level going to be a problem we would be better off adapting then trying to stop it. Besides whole east coast of China I read is in worst shape for sea level rise.
The world is a competition and we can make climate change work to our advantage by being smarter with water and crop management, sea level rise, alternative energy etc.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-11-2010, 05:07 PM
This from a mentally challenged fool who thinks using cartoons proves points LOL
When it comes to anti-intellectual, willfully ignorant rubes like you who clearly do very little reading, cartoons are the only safe bet. Ha!
cutthemdown
10-11-2010, 05:09 PM
So let's hear the liberals plan to cool the earth and still give the usa a chance to recover economically. I want a detailed plan to reduce co2 not only in the USA, but also the 3 biggest growing producers of China, India, Indonesia.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-11-2010, 05:10 PM
Yawn. Wake me up when the water reaches the foot of the Alps.
Can't sum up the conservative mindset more perfectly than this - whether we're talking about climate change or financial regulations or "___________"
(fill in the blank with any issue of concern to the bottom 99%.)
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-11-2010, 05:11 PM
So let's hear the liberals plan to cool the earth and still give the usa a chance to recover economically. I want a detailed plan to reduce co2 not only in the USA, but also the 3 biggest growing producers of China, India, Indonesia.
Ever hear of the Kyoto Protocol (you know - that thing your buddy GeeDubya repealed?)
What for? This has already been done countless times, while you claim all scientists who don't say what you want aren't real scientists even though you know nothing about them. You global warmists do not want debate. You feel you know the truth and even if have to make up data, so be it. Even Al Gore runs and hides when asked to debate.
Thanks for giving us the "I'm an idiot and suck denier cock" advert.
Now, back to reality. Give me an example of how manmade climate change is a "scam".
Taco John
10-11-2010, 06:28 PM
We would have climate change progress if only the American GOP would get on board and do something about it. Everyone is ready to take action. They're just waiting for the elephants to get on board.
*sigh*
cutthemdown
10-11-2010, 07:16 PM
Ever hear of the Kyoto Protocol (you know - that thing your buddy GeeDubya repealed?)
Hmmm unless I am wrong that didn't include the developing countries like China, Indonesia, India.
cutthemdown
10-11-2010, 07:20 PM
Also Russia ratifying is a joke. The protocol says reduce to 1990 levels. Russia counts there 1990 total as the whole of the soviet union. So they are already at those levels by the fact all of those countries, the ukraine esp aren't being counted on there totals.
So Russia has done nothing to reduce co2 through Kyoto. Its a joke. Let the EU go broke on this while we just play our own game.
cutthemdown
10-11-2010, 07:31 PM
wind energy is promising, but the cost seems too high per kilowatt still.
Alternative energy equals economic alternatives and a growth economy despite what the rush and beck retards say. Think about it, once upon a time oil killed off a fuel economy of wood, coal and whale oil. So quit yer whining and bitching and realize there is huge economic opportunity here. New technologies replace old ones all the time. If it were up to the rightards we'd still be using carrier pigeons and the pony express.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-11-2010, 09:01 PM
Alternative energy equals economic alternatives and a growth economy despite what the rush and beck retards say. Think about it, once upon a time oil killed off a fuel economy of wood, coal and whale oil. So quit yer whining and b****ing and realize there is huge economic opportunity here. New technologies replace old ones all the time. If it were up to the rightards we'd still be using carrier pigeons and the pony express.
:rofl:
Taco John
10-11-2010, 09:17 PM
Alternative energy equals economic alternatives and a growth economy despite what the rush and beck retards say.
Of course it does. No one I know who believes in free markets says any differently. But how many years has government been funding dead end sources of alternative energy? Biofuels have been an economic disaster, and their subsidies aren't going away any time soon are they?
The demand for alternative energy is well established, and there's no need to further subsidize it because whoever comes up with the solution will make a trillion dollars virtually overnight. What government should do is get out of their way and let progress happen instead of sending the smartest minds in the field down empty ratholes like biofuels.
Of course it does. No one I know who believes in free markets says any differently. But how many years has government been funding dead end sources of alternative energy? Biofuels have been an economic disaster, and their subsidies aren't going away any time soon are they?
The demand for alternative energy is well established, and there's no need to further subsidize it because whoever comes up with the solution will make a trillion dollars virtually overnight. What government should do is get out of their way and let progress happen instead of sending the smartest minds in the field down empty ratholes like biofuels.
Exactly. All for alternative energy sources that are more efficient or more productive than the previous source.
Government money for research is cool. Government subsidizing a whole industry for decades is a boondoggle.
Democrats are used to pushing square pegs into round holes though. It is what they do for a living. They decide how they are going to make our lives better and then make sure they spend our money on it whether it works or not.
spdirty
10-11-2010, 11:17 PM
So let's hear the liberals plan to cool the earth and still give the usa a chance to recover economically. I want a detailed plan to reduce co2 not only in the USA, but also the 3 biggest growing producers of China, India, Indonesia.
The only way to beat global warming is a carbon tax, to give w*gs your money, and give any personal liberties you thought you had to the governement. Only then can we be safe.
Alternative energy equals economic alternatives and a growth economy despite what the rush and beck retards say. Think about it, once upon a time oil killed off a fuel economy of wood, coal and whale oil. So quit yer whining and b****ing and realize there is huge economic opportunity here. New technologies replace old ones all the time. If it were up to the rightards we'd still be using carrier pigeons and the pony express.
If the pony express was more efficient than our postal service, and one could probably make an argument that it is :rofl:, then we should by all means use it.
The pony express was a concept way ahead of its time. Though it only remained efficient enough to survive for 18 months in the free market. It was of course conceived and run by a private company.
The discovery of petroleum as a replacement for whale oil in this country was driven also by private entrepeneurs starting with Seneca Oil in Titusville, PA.
The industry it replaced, whaling, I don't recall being a government subsidized or government run industry either.
So thanks for pointing out great history of private industry in keeping our nation always on the cutting edge of progress. We only need government to stay out of the way and let the age old motivators of greed and ambition do its job.
spdirty
10-11-2010, 11:21 PM
On a side note, it is pretty funny after all these years of boring, tired, petty, constant insults and bitchfighting, seeing w*gs and labf stroking each other off now.
If sea level going to be a problem we would be better off adapting then trying to stop it. Besides whole east coast of China I read is in worst shape for sea level rise.
The world is a competition and we can make climate change work to our advantage by being smarter with water and crop management, sea level rise, alternative energy etc.
Exactly. Wow, there still is a person in America with common sense.
Alternative energy equals economic alternatives and a growth economy despite what the rush and beck retards say. Think about it, once upon a time oil killed off a fuel economy of wood, coal and whale oil. So quit yer whining and b****ing and realize there is huge economic opportunity here. New technologies replace old ones all the time. If it were up to the rightards we'd still be using carrier pigeons and the pony express.
And the true irony of your statement is if the whaling industry was unionized at that time we would still have whaling. The dems and their union friends are the true clingers to old outdated technologies.
By the way the whaling industry was on the cutting edge of race relations and development. A black man could go farther in a company in that industry based purely on skill and on merit than any other at that time in history. Even becoming ship captains.
We would have climate change progress if only the American GOP would get on board and do something about it. Everyone is ready to take action. They're just waiting for the elephants to get on board.
*sigh*
I guarantee you the real ground breaking solutions to climate change will come from the private sector.
The masses have decided they want to live in a cleaner environment and are willing to pay a bit more for it being cleaner. If you have an efficient private sector having a sustainable clear demand with profit potential is all that is really needed for good solutions to begin emerging.
What is going on with cap and tax and irresponsible levels of subsidies in solar & wind technology, especially in Europe I must say, is just another example of government getting in the way of true progress.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-12-2010, 03:53 AM
But how many years has government been funding dead end sources of alternative energy?
No one to blame for this except the right-wing dupes who consistently vote Big Oil.
When you listen to the right-wingers, it's like these people are proxies or mouthpieces for the interests who oppose any sort of movement away from fossil fuels and toward alternative energy sources.
These people have been swallowing Big Oil's propaganda since Red Ink Ron removed the solar panels from the WH.
Like we need to do this for the 1000th time. Yawn.
1000th? Try first time.
You and the other deniers are virgins when it comes to science - you've not actually done it at all.
bronclvr
10-12-2010, 06:25 AM
Yesterday, one of my Salesmen was out calling on Customers, and ran into this older Gentleman at the Home of a good Customer-he asked him what he did, and the guy said that he led expeditions to the Antarctic, taking Scientists to work on the Global Warming issue. My Salesman asked him if the Scientists thought Global Warming was real, and he replied that it depended to whom the Scientists were talking to-if you were a Politician, or had anything to do with the funding of these "expeditions", then yes, it is wholly man-made. Truthfully, he said, they believe that man has certainly contributed, but they did not know to what extent.
He also said that the loss of ice was a bit of a farce, in that while ice is melting on one side of Antarctica at a rate of about 5% (I think he said per Year?), it is increasing on the other side of Antartica at close to the same rate-anyway, I found it interesting so I thought I'd share-
Rohirrim
10-12-2010, 08:07 AM
Only on the Mane could I learn that it is the Left that is supporting the oil industry/military industrial congressional complex. As Kurt Vonnegut used to say, "And so it goes." :rofl:
I guarantee you the real ground breaking solutions to climate change will come from the private sector.
I agree. Properly price carbon-based energy with a carbon tax, and let the market do its thing.
Taco John
10-12-2010, 09:00 AM
Only on the Mane could I learn that it is the Left that is supporting the oil industry/military industrial congressional complex. As Kurt Vonnegut used to say, "And so it goes." :rofl:
Why would this be the only place that you could learn this point of obviousness? You could learn this just by looking at Democrat policy since Obama has been in office - not to mention Democrat policy when Clinton was in office. Or any number of policies while Democrats have been in charge of congress. I'm kind of baffled by your response here. You're surely not this uniformed.
Obushma
10-12-2010, 10:03 AM
Only on the Mane could I learn that it is the Left that is supporting the oil industry/military industrial congressional complex. As Kurt Vonnegut used to say, "And so it goes." :rofl:
Unbelievable...Only on the Mane will you find progressives, so delusional to believe, that the "Left" isn't feeding the "machine". Hilarious!
How much you getting paid to hang out here all day?
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-12-2010, 11:57 AM
Why would this be the only place that you could learn this point of obviousness? You could learn this just by looking at Democrat policy since Obama has been in office - not to mention Democrat policy when Clinton was in office. Or any number of policies while Democrats have been in charge of congress. I'm kind of baffled by your response here. You're surely not this uniformed.
He didn't say "Democrats" - he said "the left."
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-12-2010, 11:59 AM
Unbelievable...Only on the Mane will you find regressives so delusional as to believe that "The Left" even exists as a force in American politics nowadays. Hilarious!
Fixed. :wave:
Rohirrim
10-12-2010, 12:29 PM
Why would this be the only place that you could learn this point of obviousness? You could learn this just by looking at Democrat policy since Obama has been in office - not to mention Democrat policy when Clinton was in office. Or any number of policies while Democrats have been in charge of congress. I'm kind of baffled by your response here. You're surely not this uniformed.
The Dems stopped being the Left quite a while ago.
cutthemdown
10-12-2010, 02:28 PM
I agree. Properly price carbon-based energy with a carbon tax, and let the market do its thing.
That punishes the energy producing states more then the non ones. How do you propose that will fly?
It will only cost the dems even more states which is why they shelved cap and trade. That coupled with healthcare would have absolutley doomed them.....and us.
I agree. Properly price carbon-based energy with a carbon tax, and let the market do its thing.
Then Europe would have solved it a long time ago with their 75% taxes on carbon energy. Yet they still have to subsidize the hell out of solar and wind and will for a very, very long time.
But by all means continue to think there isn't anything you can't fix without the right tax.
cutthemdown
10-12-2010, 03:13 PM
were better off waiting until the kilowatt per hour for production makes sense. Otherwise its not good biz. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool.
Let Europe waste money developing expensive tech that won't pay off for 50 yrs. Besides anyone who thinks the environmentalist will let you build offshore windfarms like they are doing in EU is a fool. They are fighting every project proposed tooth and nail.
That punishes the energy producing states more then the non ones. How do you propose that will fly?
Producing energy that has large negative externalities, as carbon-based ones do, should be punished. It will also punish OPEC - that is, unless you don't mind Saudi Arabia dictating our foreign policy.
We need to get off our addiction to oil. Plain and simple.
Then Europe would have solved it a long time ago with their 75% taxes on carbon energy.
I don't believe Europe as a whole charges a "75%" (whatever that means) on all carbon-based fuels. Where's your evidence that they do?
But by all means continue to think there isn't anything you can't fix without the right tax.
The costs associated with carbon-based fuels are artificially set to zero - which we know is wrong. This corrects that market failure.
chadta
10-12-2010, 04:38 PM
It will also punish OPEC -
how will taxing oil punish opec ? they still get 80 bucks a barrel, but now every person in the us will pay 100 bucks a barrel instead.
I don't believe Europe as a whole charges a "75%" (whatever that means) on all carbon-based fuels. Where's your evidence that they do?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax#Tax_rates
while not 75%, they do get over 65% in several places
Germany €0.4704 per litre for ultra-low sulphur Diesel and €0.6545 per litre for conventional unleaded petrol, plus Value Added Tax (19%) on the fuel itself and the Fuel Tax. That adds up to prices of €1.03 per litre for ultra-low sulphur Diesel and €1.22 per litre (approximately USD 6.28 per US gallon)
Netherlands € 0.684 per litre or $ 3.5 per gallon. On top of that is 19% VAT over the entire fuel price, making the Dutch taxes one of the highest in the world. In total, taxes account for 68,84% of the total price of petrol and 56,55% of the total price of diesel.
Norway Even though Norway is the third largest oil exporter, the fuel is heavily taxed. The fuel tax for regular fuel pumps (gas stations) in Norway contributed to 63% of the fuel price in 2007 (The tax was USD 1.42 per litre
cutthemdown
10-12-2010, 06:08 PM
Producing energy that has large negative externalities, as carbon-based ones do, should be punished. It will also punish OPEC - that is, unless you don't mind Saudi Arabia dictating our foreign policy.
We need to get off our addiction to oil. Plain and simple.
It will only force those states to abandon energy production, or charge way more for it. The costs get passed to business and taxpayers all over country. OPEC could care less China will buy all the oil you can sell more then likely. There growth will far outpace any changes we can make here. You know it to be true.
I don't believe Europe as a whole charges a "75%" (whatever that means) on all carbon-based fuels. Where's your evidence that they do?
The costs associated with carbon-based fuels are artificially set to zero - which we know is wrong. This corrects that market failure.
Simply drive up to a gas station in Europe. Please explain why gas is $8 per gallon in Europe or 4 times the cost in the US. Magic?
I guess zero pollution is created in making hundreds of tons of steel and aluminum to produce a windmill, is that your case? You are producing an enormous amount of pollution now in one shot to produce those monstrosities. It is only clean after it is built. People like to view it as it was magically created.
Yesterday, one of my Salesmen was out calling on Customers, and ran into this older Gentleman at the Home of a good Customer-he asked him what he did, and the guy said that he led expeditions to the Antarctic, taking Scientists to work on the Global Warming issue. My Salesman asked him if the Scientists thought Global Warming was real, and he replied that it depended to whom the Scientists were talking to-if you were a Politician, or had anything to do with the funding of these "expeditions", then yes, it is wholly man-made. Truthfully, he said, they believe that man has certainly contributed, but they did not know to what extent.
He also said that the loss of ice was a bit of a farce, in that while ice is melting on one side of Antarctica at a rate of about 5% (I think he said per Year?), it is increasing on the other side of Antartica at close to the same rate-anyway, I found it interesting so I thought I'd share-
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/
Yep. Some good charts at this site.
how will taxing oil punish opec ? they still get 80 bucks a barrel, but now every person in the us will pay 100 bucks a barrel instead.
The worst thing that can happen to OPEC is if they see our use of their oil drop - why do you suppose they hate expensive oil?
As our imports of their oil drop, they lose revenue. The Saudis then cannot turn around and fund terrorists to fly planes into our buildings. Darn, eh?
I wasn't just talking taxes on gasoline.
Simply drive up to a gas station in Europe. Please explain why gas is $8 per gallon in Europe or 4 times the cost in the US. Magic?
I wasn't talking just taxes on gasoline. All carbon-based fuels should be taxed.
I guess zero pollution is created in making hundreds of tons of steel and aluminum to produce a windmill, is that your case? You are producing an enormous amount of pollution now in one shot to produce those monstrosities. It is only clean after it is built. People like to view it as it was magically created.
Insisting on zero pollution is a red herring. Integrate the amount of pollution over the lifetime of the energy source, silly. A wind turbine farm is negligible compared to a coal-fired plant.
I don't know of anyone who thinks alternative forms of energy are "magically created". Another strawman dead at your clumsy hands...
It will only force those states to abandon energy production, or charge way more for it.
Those states will have to look at other forms of energy production.
What makes Texans so much smarter than you that they've figured out that they've long passed peak oil there, and are investing in and producing other forms of energy?
Can you not think of any other kinds of energy that carbon-based ones? Why are you so dumb?
The costs get passed to business and taxpayers all over country.
Good. Then we'll use less.
OPEC could care less China will buy all the oil you can sell more then likely. There growth will far outpace any changes we can make here. You know it to be true.
No, I don't "know it". How do you? Considering that China is investing in "green" forms of energy at a torrid pace (if one believes their media and government), clearly they're not going to buy OPEC oil that we don't.
And in case, eventually the oil will run out as a practical energy source. Why wait until we are forced to find other sources? Why not start now?
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/
Yep. Some good charts at this site.
Indeed. Look at that global sea ice anomaly. Well below zero. The very small growth of Antarctic sea ice cannot compensate for the loss of Arctic sea ice. Too bad for your "everything's fine" stance.
cutthemdown
10-13-2010, 01:31 AM
Those states will have to look at other forms of energy production.
What makes Texans so much smarter than you that they've figured out that they've long passed peak oil there, and are investing in and producing other forms of energy?
Can you not think of any other kinds of energy that carbon-based ones? Why are you so dumb?
Good. Then we'll use less.
No, I don't "know it". How do you? Considering that China is investing in "green" forms of energy at a torrid pace (if one believes their media and government), clearly they're not going to buy OPEC oil that we don't.
And in case, eventually the oil will run out as a practical energy source. Why wait until we are forced to find other sources? Why not start now?
Well like I said environmentalist are fighting wind farms all over. The cost per kilowatt is too high still right now. I think if they came out and admitted that the plan is to make it cost more, so you will use less, won't fly to well.
I can't wait to see that one.
cutthemdown
10-13-2010, 01:31 AM
So if the environmentalist stand down and make it doable cost wise then yes lets build solar in the desert and wind offshore. But no way will that be easy.
Well like I said environmentalist are fighting wind farms all over. The cost per kilowatt is too high still right now. I think if they came out and admitted that the plan is to make it cost more, so you will use less, won't fly to well.
Addicts never want to face up to their addiction and its costs.
Wind doesn't cost too much - the cost of oil/coal/gas is kept far too low.
So if the environmentalist stand down and make it doable cost wise then yes lets build solar in the desert and wind offshore. But no way will that be easy.
It's not greens stopping work towards alternative forms of energy.
It's the carbon industry and their stooges in politics and their ignorant fellow travelers (who suck up their propaganda more vigorously than Jenna Jameson sucks you-know-what) who are refusing to accept that carbon-based energy is a dead end. And you know why? Because there's so much money involved.
No-one said it would be easy. But since when have we Americans shied away from doing things that are difficult? Are we a nation of wusses?
Exactly. All for alternative energy sources that are more efficient or more productive than the previous source.
Government money for research is cool. Government subsidizing a whole industry for decades is a boondoggle.
Democrats are used to pushing square pegs into round holes though. It is what they do for a living. They decide how they are going to make our lives better and then make sure they spend our money on it whether it works or not.
How can you talk about decades of govt. subsidy in one sentence then casually toss out democrats as the responsible party in the next when both parties are culpable as they have both been in power over the decades? Weak.
Government subsidizing a whole industry for decades is a boondoggle.
Indeed. The titanic government subsidies of carbon-based fuels (for decades) must end.
chadta
10-13-2010, 05:28 AM
the cost of oil/coal/gas is kept far too low.
taxing it at a rate of almost 50% is keeping it low ?
canada is a net producer of oil, yet we pay more for it then you guy do because of liberals like yourself taxing the hell out of it, no reason we shouldnt pay the real cost, the cost the market will bear, the cost set out on the stock exchange. so please drop they we keep the cost low crap.
taxing it at a rate of almost 50% is keeping it low ?
Taxing gasoline is a small part of the correction for the negative externalities associated with carbon-based fuel use.
canada is a net producer of oil, yet we pay more for it then you guy do because of liberals like yourself taxing the hell out of it, no reason we shouldnt pay the real cost, the cost the market will bear, the cost set out on the stock exchange. so please drop they we keep the cost low crap.
The market has failed to properly price carbon-based fuels, so no, the market alone won't work.