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View Full Version : When did you START to lose faith in Shanny?


baja
10-09-2010, 10:18 PM
For me it was when we lost the lost three games in 07. More to the point it was the way we lost them.

If you never lost faith do you wish he were still coaching the Broncos?

Florida_Bronco
10-09-2010, 10:23 PM
2007 here as well. I didn't like the way the Bates/Slowik situation was handled at all, and I remember how the game at home against San Diego was the first time I can remember actually being embarrassed by the Broncos. The hot start to the 2008 season saw me regain some faith, but that turned out to be a mirage and when he announced he was bringing Slowik back I felt like I had been kicked in the balls.

BroncoLifer
10-09-2010, 10:26 PM
Probably when he took Ashley Lelie over Ed Reed.

Chris
10-09-2010, 10:32 PM
I honestly never did. I only realised what we were missing (beyond the obvious "our defense sucks") after Bowlen had the balls to cut him loose. Shanahan for me was so intrinsic to the Broncos that I had never really considered the team without him. In hindsight I'm glad it happened... for us and for Shanahan. I have faith in the franchise... it really is better to be a Broncos fan than a fan of any other AFC West team. I believe Mcdaniels to be a brilliant, good natured shark and I think he's what the team needed.

WABronco
10-09-2010, 10:35 PM
Never did.

baja
10-09-2010, 10:36 PM
Never did.

Do you wish he was still here?

HAT
10-09-2010, 10:41 PM
October 5th, 2007. Anyone need a bump?

WABronco
10-09-2010, 10:42 PM
Do you wish he was still here?

I wouldn't say that, no. I pretty much grew up with Shanahan, and I just don't think I would've ever truly lost faith. Not in the way a Jaguars fan would with Del Rio or especially a 49'ers fan with Singletary. He was in a different class.

Champagne Powder
10-09-2010, 11:15 PM
I never lost faith in Shanahan either. However, I think it turned out well for all parties involved and I don't understand why we have to keep ****ing revisiting 2007 and 2008 over and over again and rehashing old wounds.

Shanahan is doing well in D.C. and the Broncos are doing just fine with McDaniels. Can't we leave it at just that?

These threads just make me want to stick my finger down my throat and puke!

baja
10-09-2010, 11:17 PM
I never lost faith in Shanahan either. However, I think it turned out well for all parties involved and I don't understand why we have to keep ****ing revisiting 2007 and 2008 over and over again and rehashing old wounds.

Shanahan is doing well in D.C. and the Broncos are doing just fine with McDaniels. Can't we leave it at just that?

These threads just make me want to stick my finger down my throat and puke!

That must be why you open them and post in them.

Do you catch the title of the thread?

Cito Pelon
10-09-2010, 11:20 PM
When he signed Dale Carter to the record FA contract.

baja
10-09-2010, 11:23 PM
I hated that too!

I was in denial when it came to Shanny, I made excuse after excuse to justify the moves that I knew in my heart were wrong or just plain bad decisions, even to me a fan.

Popps
10-09-2010, 11:26 PM
Don't know if I'd call it losing faith.

But, there comes a time to move on. That time came for Shanahan and I expect both parties to be successful in the near future.

gunns
10-09-2010, 11:32 PM
I admit I started losing faith early on. A little bit when he took Ashley Lelie, but when he brought in the Browncos I lost all faith. These guys gave up the most yards in one game to a running back and Shanahan thought they were going to be our Saviors? That was a cluster**** that we are still trying to fix. I felt Shanahan was in a panic to win the big one again and had lost all focus. He threw garbage at the defense and in the end I believe the defense was his downfall.

nickademus
10-09-2010, 11:34 PM
after he drafted willie middlebrooks.

Kaylore
10-09-2010, 11:38 PM
The events of the 07 for Me. Started with Coyer getting fired. Then the loss to the Raiders and Bills. When he refused to fire Slowick at the end of '08, I knew it was time.

Dr. Broncenstein
10-09-2010, 11:45 PM
Never lost faith in Shanny the coach. Lost faith in Shanny the GM when we signed Dale Carter and let Shannon Sharpe walk.

baja
10-09-2010, 11:51 PM
The events of the 07 for Me. Started with Coyer getting fired. Then the loss to the Raiders and Bills. When he refused to fire Slowick at the end of '08, I knew it was time.

I was on board with firing Coyer but I was wrong. ;D

UberBroncoMan
10-09-2010, 11:54 PM
Honestly?

When he said Bob Slowik was coming back after our loss to KC to end 2008.

As neat as what we were seeing on offence was. Our defense was a disgrace, and Slowik is/was/became one of the worst DC's in NFL history after his tenures in Green Bay and Denver.

Cito Pelon
10-10-2010, 12:05 AM
Never lost faith in Shanny the coach. Lost faith in Shanny the GM when we signed Dale Carter and let Shannon Sharpe walk.

Yeah, letting Sharpe walk was a compound of evils.

Archer81
10-10-2010, 12:14 AM
52-21 vs San Diego. The team completely shut down. It was embarassing to watch. I love Mike Shanahan for what he did in Denver, but that game made it obvious a change had to happen.

:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
10-10-2010, 12:58 AM
Never actually "lost" faith ... but before Jim Goodman, his drafts were nothing less than catastrophies.

Marcus Nash
Eric Brown
Travis McGriff
Deltha O'Neal
Willie Middlebrooks
Paul Toviessi
Ashley Lelie
George Foster


Then when he canned Larry Coyer, that was just self-immolation. In came Bates, and that was the beginning of the end ... we haven't stopped anybody since.

And I think we underestimate the part Mike's personality played in his dismissal. The erratic staff changes, shopping mall sized house, compulsive drafting of three CBs and then three D-linemen, wanting to replace Dove Valley. He was becoming a kind of megamaniacal personality.

Killericon
10-10-2010, 12:59 AM
Never.

LongDongJohnson
10-10-2010, 01:12 AM
i lost faith at the end of 08. that last 3 game stretch was so pathetic. and then when he said he's keeping slowik, i had enough.

driver
10-10-2010, 01:29 AM
When he benched Jake for a rookie qb, admittedly we weren't exactly setting the world on fire offensively, buttt dammmmnnnn, we were on the way to playoff's, and then we weren't even close. The first epic collapse, I think.

montrose
10-10-2010, 02:31 AM
Leaving the stadium after the Raiders loss in 2008 and the week before the Buffalo game in 2008, I had been in a bit of denial before that - trying to justify what had happened over the past eight-years. But, much because I wasn't a big believer in Cutler, I just had no excitement about the future. I remember being in tears after the Raider game because in my heart I knew the team was going in the wrong direction. Then the week before the Buffalo game, following the Carolina blowout, when I had no doubt in my mind we were going to lose to an inferior team at home with a playoff spot on the line (and apparently I wasn't alone with near 10,000 no-shows) I had completely lost my faith in Shanny.

Dr. Broncenstein
10-10-2010, 02:52 AM
I'm not trying to be an asshole, but a grown man crying over a football team might consider re-examining his priorities.

montrose
10-10-2010, 03:15 AM
I'm not trying to be an a-hole, but a grown man crying over a football team might consider re-examining his priorities.

Back in 2008 my life was much differen't than it is now. Regardless, I still care enough about my team that I could probably be upset enough to tear up depending on circumstances. Not that it's any of your business a-hole.

Dr. Broncenstein
10-10-2010, 03:22 AM
Back in 2008 my life was much differen't than it is now. Regardless, I still care enough about my team that I could probably be upset enough to tear up depending on circumstances. Not that it's any of your business a-hole.

Just doing my part to prevent this from happening again. (NSFW)

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Dr. Broncenstein
10-10-2010, 03:26 AM
And this

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/V5Dv28kp4P0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/V5Dv28kp4P0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

montrose
10-10-2010, 03:36 AM
lol, now I still care a great deal about my team. But back in 2008, the Broncos were pretty much all I had. I had uprooted my life and moved to the city just to support the team.

Drek
10-10-2010, 03:38 AM
When we traded up in the '06 draft to take Cutler with Haloti Ngata on the board.

I worked hard to sell myself on it afterwards, but it was the first big, irrefutable confirmation that Shanahan and co had no idea what our problems really were on defense, and that until he was gone they would not get fixed.

From that point on you could see the wheels coming off. Bringing in Dre Bly and not giving Foxworth a legit shot to take over the #2 CB spot across from Champ, dumping Coyer even though he was trying to hold the '06 defense together with a shoestring and tin foil, the list goes on and on from that point.

Cito Pelon
10-10-2010, 03:56 AM
I'm not trying to be an a-hole, but a grown man crying over a football team might consider re-examining his priorities.

Being too jaded is a crying shame also.

dsmoot
10-10-2010, 04:06 AM
Never actually "lost" faith ... but before Jim Goodman, his drafts were nothing less than catastrophies.

Marcus Nash
Eric Brown
Travis McGriff
Deltha O'Neal
Willie Middlebrooks
Paul Toviessi
Ashley Lelie
George Foster


Then when he canned Larry Coyer, that was just self-immolation. In came Bates, and that was the beginning of the end ... we haven't stopped anybody since.

And I think we underestimate the part Mike's personality played in his dismissal. The erratic staff changes, shopping mall sized house, compulsive drafting of three CBs and then three D-linemen, wanting to replace Dove Valley. He was becoming a kind of megamaniacal personality.

A great list and a very good evaluation of the situation followed. I would like to see your list expanded. One column of draftees, one column of free agent signings and one column of coaches cycling through. As you said, Mike became too big for the Broncos and that in of itself was root cause of the Bronco failures.

vancejohnson82
10-10-2010, 04:12 AM
game where we got smoked by the Detroit

Dr. Broncenstein
10-10-2010, 04:37 AM
Being too jaded is a crying shame also.

Hey man, once they did away with the McRib I know I could handle anything else the world could throw at me.

Ray Finkle
10-10-2010, 05:03 AM
When after the collapse he said he was sticking with Slowick....

Bronco Rob
10-10-2010, 05:06 AM
Brian over Bubby
Maurice Clarett over Darren Sproles







:~ohyah!:

Dedhed
10-10-2010, 05:18 AM
The events of the 07 for Me. Started with Coyer getting fired. Then the loss to the Raiders and Bills. When he refused to fire Slowik at the end of '08, I knew it was time.

These are the events that made me COMPLETELY lose faith in Shanahan as both a coach and a GM.

Although I was disgusted with his GM moves long before that, the losses to the Raiders and Bills made me feel he had completely lost his ability to motivate the team or to put together a game plan that would be a no brainer to execute in order to beat one of those inferior teams.

When I STARTED to lose faith in him was with the loss to the Steelers at home in the AFC Championship game. The fates aligned for us that year, and the Broncos came out and looked completely unprepared to be on that stage.

ColoradoDarin
10-10-2010, 05:24 AM
When we traded up in the '06 draft to take Cutler with Haloti Ngata on the board.

I worked hard to sell myself on it afterwards, but it was the first big, irrefutable confirmation that Shanahan and co had no idea what our problems really were on defense, and that until he was gone they would not get fixed.

From that point on you could see the wheels coming off. Bringing in Dre Bly and not giving Foxworth a legit shot to take over the #2 CB spot across from Champ, dumping Coyer even though he was trying to hold the '06 defense together with a shoestring and tin foil, the list goes on and on from that point.

Same for me, I tried to get behind Cutler since he was our QB, but I hated the drafting of him, and I was so pumped to take Ngata when we moved up the draft only to be disappointed.

pal
10-10-2010, 06:03 AM
Never lost faith just felt it was time to move on, once a coach has been somewhere too long it seems the players stop listening and become complacent.

Swedish Extrovert
10-10-2010, 06:12 AM
Just doing my part to prevent this from happening again. (NSFW)

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That guy at the end would be me.

Broncoman13
10-10-2010, 06:30 AM
For me it was when we lost the lost three games in 07. More to the point it was the way we lost them.

If you never lost faith do you wish he were still coaching the Broncos?


The Bills game his final year. I was there. Had the game in hand and could have ended it by half time. Actually, that was when I felt it was probably time for a change rather that starting to lose faith. I started losing faith probably a year or two before that. The misses on first round picks, FAs, and the inability to close out games... same things you are seeing with him right now.

Rohirrim
10-10-2010, 06:36 AM
Never actually "lost" faith ... but before Jim Goodman, his drafts were nothing less than catastrophies.

Marcus Nash
Eric Brown
Travis McGriff
Deltha O'Neal
Willie Middlebrooks
Paul Toviessi
Ashley Lelie
George Foster


Then when he canned Larry Coyer, that was just self-immolation. In came Bates, and that was the beginning of the end ... we haven't stopped anybody since.

And I think we underestimate the part Mike's personality played in his dismissal. The erratic staff changes, shopping mall sized house, compulsive drafting of three CBs and then three D-linemen, wanting to replace Dove Valley. He was becoming a kind of megamaniacal personality.

And then he brought in his son, Kim Jong Shanahan. That was the end for me.

rbackfactory80
10-10-2010, 06:51 AM
When he slept with my sister. He is an evil man.

spdirty
10-10-2010, 07:01 AM
I cried when we won the Super Bowl.

But I'll admit I lost a tad bit of faith when he announced he was bringing Slowick back. I did not think he should have been fired for it, I thought he should have gotten 1 more year to try to fix the defense.

strafen
10-10-2010, 07:03 AM
I've never lost faith in the coach...

Rock Chalk
10-10-2010, 08:02 AM
When he benched Jake for a rookie qb, admittedly we weren't exactly setting the world on fire offensively, buttt dammmmnnnn, we were on the way to playoff's, and then we weren't even close. The first epic collapse, I think.

This.

I knew it was time for Shanahan to go. Benching a starter that was 7-4 for a rookie when you are knee deep in a playoff race was the first sign I knew his time in Denver was over and he was getting desperate.

Combined with the following next two seasons culminating in the 3 game division lead with 3 games to go epically historic collapse, I knew Bowlen wouldn't tolerate it much longer.

Swedish Extrovert
10-10-2010, 08:04 AM
I wouldn't say I ever lost faith, but I was getting pretty frusterated in 2007, and it worsened at the SD game in 2008.

go_broncos
10-10-2010, 08:08 AM
My doubts started when he put cutler in Seattle game.
I lost faith in him when we lost last 3 games and missed playoffs.

Tombstone RJ
10-10-2010, 08:09 AM
As much as I defend McD, I pretty much defended Shanny the same way. The only thing I criticized him about, on a consistent basis, was the defense. I did drone on about fan apathy due to mediocre teams and no playoff wins, but that was more a sympton of the record, than a direct shanny criticisim.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-10-2010, 08:09 AM
This.

I knew it was time for Shanahan to go. Benching a starter that was 7-4 for a rookie when you are knee deep in a playoff race was the first sign I knew his time in Denver was over and he was getting desperate.

Combined with the following next two seasons culminating in the 3 game division lead with 3 games to go epically historic collapse, I knew Bowlen wouldn't tolerate it much longer.

Yep. Although, the drafting of Cutler is what sticks out in my mind as the one moment where I KNEW it was boom or bust. I was so pissed off about that pick, just inconsolable. We had SO many needs, especially on defense, and we trade two first rounders for... a quarterback?

We'd been in the AFC title game THAT season with Plummer, who had the best season of his career. And we pick... a quarterback?

Someone mentioned that Ngata was on the board, and that makes me want to punch kittens.

go_broncos
10-10-2010, 08:15 AM
I appreciate Bowlen for firing shanny as most of his draft picks are horrible.
Our players are soft under him. He doesn't know how to assemble good defense.
Also, he doesn't adjust during game. We seem to start well(score a touchdown or FG) on the first couple of drives.Once the other team adjusts, we seem to struggle.
I believe the same will happen in Washington.

Crushaholic
10-10-2010, 09:05 AM
game where we got smoked by the Detroit

That's exactly it, for me. When was that? 2007? 2008?


I don't remember. All I remember is that the players didn't seem to care that they were smacked in the mouth.

ScottXray
10-10-2010, 09:31 AM
First time I really started to doubt shanny was when he put Cutler in as starter against Seattle in 06 (when Plummer was replaced).

Until then I trusted his evaluation of Cutler. He said that he would play the player that gave us our best chance to win. When Cutler came in he looked exactly like what he was ... a rookie playing his first real NFL game....not ready for the speed and action of a regular season game. What he did in the game was not what Shanny said he was ready for and his pick six early on and the late game pass to Marshall (all on Marshal) for that TD to tie the game left me with the feeling that Cutler was simply who shanny Wanted to be QB. His performance to bring us back was good...of course the D promptly let Seattle go down and score to seal the game for them.

At that point I started to question whether Shanny had what it took to field a winner anymore.

Bronx33
10-10-2010, 09:31 AM
This.

I knew it was time for Shanahan to go. Benching a starter that was 7-4 for a rookie when you are knee deep in a playoff race was the first sign I knew his time in Denver was over and he was getting desperate.

Combined with the following next two seasons culminating in the 3 game division lead with 3 games to go epically historic collapse, I knew Bowlen wouldn't tolerate it much longer.


this and some piss poor playcalling and slowick.

OABB
10-10-2010, 09:43 AM
The afccg.

Gcver2ver3
10-10-2010, 09:46 AM
i lost faith at the end of 08. that last 3 game stretch was so pathetic. and then when he said he's keeping slowik, i had enough.

exactly this...and i mean EXACTLY this...

when we blew a 3 game lead with 3 to go i was sick to my stomach unlike any feeling other than the 96 playoff loss to j-ville....

and then we he had the nerve to announce we were keeping slowik i wasn't sure i could take it...another season with the worst defense i had ever seen wasn't gonna work for me...

cutthemdown
10-10-2010, 09:47 AM
I never lost faith in Shanny I just felt it was time to move on. No doubt Shanny could still win it all because he is that good a coach. Sometimes though things get stale when you stay in one place too long.

Long live the Rat!!

frerottenextelway
10-10-2010, 09:51 AM
I know it was denied by the parties involved at the time, but wasn't it kind of well known that Lelie was Bowlen's doing.

baja
10-10-2010, 09:56 AM
I know it was denied by the parties involved at the time, but wasn't it kind of well known that Lelie was Bowlen's doing.

Never ever heard that before your post.

Broncojef
10-10-2010, 10:04 AM
After one of the Indy smokings on a Sunday/Monday night where he proceded to state after the game how close we were to having a championship team.

lostknight
10-10-2010, 12:56 PM
For me it was when we lost the lost three games in 07. More to the point it was the way we lost them.

If you never lost faith do you wish he were still coaching the Broncos?


You know, you remind me a lot of the communists, who, whenever they could justify their stupidity and failure to deliver on promises, said "what we replaced was worse."

Mecklomaniac
10-10-2010, 01:06 PM
When did you START to lose faith in Bowlen

lostknight
10-10-2010, 01:16 PM
It was time for him to go when he left. I didn't loose faith in him, it was just clear he had lost touch.

That being said, if I could trade Josh McDaniels for him today, the post-shock, back to reality Shanahan, I would in the blink of a eye.

Dagmar
10-10-2010, 01:19 PM
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="yspsctnhdln">San Diego (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/sdg) 52, Denver (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/den) 21 </td> </tr> <tr> <td height="7">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> Preview (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/preview?gid=20081228024) - Box Score - Recap (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/recap?gid=20081228024)

</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr align="center"> <td> http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/nfl/teams/20080123/80x60/den.gif (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/den) (8-8)
</td> <td width="370"> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="ysptblbdr2"> <table class="ysptblclbg3" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="ysptblbdr2"><td colspan="16" height="1">
</td></tr> <tr align="center" bgcolor="#dedec6"> <td rowspan="5" class="ysptblbdr2" width="1">
</td> <td height="18" width="10"> </td> <td>
</td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1">
</td> <td class="yspscores" width="23">1</td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1">
</td> <td class="yspscores" width="23">2</td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1">
</td> <td class="yspscores" width="23">3</td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1">
</td> <td class="yspscores" width="23">4</td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1">
</td> <td class="yspscores total" align="right" width="33">Total</td> <td class="yspscores" width="38">
</td> <td class="yspscores" width="24">
</td> <td rowspan="5" class="ysptblbdr2" width="1">
</td> </tr> <tr class="yspwhitebg"><td colspan="14" height="1">
</td></tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="center"> <td height="23" width="10">
</td> <td class="yspscores team" align="left"> Denver (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/den) </td> <td class="yspscores">6</td> <td class="yspscores">0</td> <td class="yspscores">7</td> <td class="yspscores">8</td> <td class="ysptblclbg6 total" align="right"> 21 </td> <td class="ysptblclbg6 total" align="right">Final </td> <td rowspan="3" class="ysptblclbg6">
</td> </tr> <tr class="yspwhitebg"> <td colspan="2">
</td> <td colspan="8" height="1">
</td> <td colspan="2" class="ysptblclbg6">
</td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="center"> <td height="23" width="10">http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/gr/or_arrow.gif</td> <td class="yspscores team" align="left"> San Diego (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/sdg) </td> <td class="yspscores">10</td> <td class="yspscores">14</td> <td class="yspscores">14</td> <td class="yspscores">14</td> <td class="ysptblclbg6 total" align="right"> 52 </td> <td class="ysptblclbg6 total" align="right"> </td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblbdr2"> <td colspan="16" height="1">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td> http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/nfl/teams/20080123/80x60/sdg.gif (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/sdg) (8-8)
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" height="7">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td height="7">
</td></tr></tbody></table>

NFLBRONCO
10-10-2010, 01:31 PM
06

Lousy FA moves
Crappy DC choices
He'd say how talented we were when we weren't
He thought band aide fixes were answer

bpc
10-10-2010, 01:45 PM
Shanny should have gotten another year in Denver but with him sticking by Slowik, that would have been the noose around his neck for the coming season. My turning point then would have been 08' with the chance of 09' to redeem himself. He never got that shot. So be it.

On that note, he has the Redskins in 1st place of the NFC East after knocking off another good team in the Packers today. They're also 2-0 in the division. Good for Mike. He deserves the success he gets because the guy works as hard as anybody in the business.

Dagmar
10-10-2010, 01:55 PM
Shanny should have gotten another year in Denver but with him sticking by Slowik, that would have been the noose around his neck for the coming season. My turning point then would have been 08' with the chance of 09' to redeem himself. He never got that shot. So be it.

On that note, he has the Redskins in 1st place of the NFC East after knocking off another good team in the Packers today. They're also 2-0 in the division. Good for Mike. He deserves the success he gets because the guy works as hard as anybody in the business.

He killed himself in 2006 by trying to rebuild a team that got to the AFC Championship. Shanny can do anything with scrubs on O, he really needed an excellent D coordinator. Not a Slowick.

lostknight
10-10-2010, 01:55 PM
There were a lot of things to question Shanny on, but people definitely have forgotten how piss-poor Jake played that year. It was epically bad.

lostknight
10-10-2010, 01:55 PM
He killed himself in 2006 by trying to rebuild a team that got to the AFC Championship. Shanny can do anything with scrubs on O, he really needed an excellent D coordinator. Not a Slowick.

This.

Blart
10-10-2010, 02:03 PM
When he put a short, short leash on Plummer, thereby throwing away a championship run for his pet project Cutler.

baja
10-10-2010, 02:14 PM
There were a lot of things to question Shanny on, but people definitely have forgotten how piss-poor Jake played that year. It was epically bad.

He lost confidence in himself when Cutler was drafted. He was never the same form that day on.

Taco John
10-10-2010, 02:15 PM
He lost confidence in himself when Cutler was drafted. He was never the same form that day on.

Jake lost confidence in himself before Jay was drafted.

baja
10-10-2010, 02:15 PM
Anybody remember what we gave up to get to 12 (11?) for Cutler?

bpc
10-10-2010, 02:16 PM
He killed himself in 2006 by trying to rebuild a team that got to the AFC Championship. Shanny can do anything with scrubs on O, he really needed an excellent D coordinator. Not a Slowick.

I think a lot of things coincided at the same time:

I think Shanny took his team as far as it could go with a Jake Plummer at the helm. That guy could not win big time games. Jake was a smoke n' mirrors QB who worked wonders until we ran into a team that could stop our run game. When he didn't have mis-directions and bootlegs to live off of, he couldn't function as a dropback passer. He started throwing picks left and right. This was proven time and again so I'm not disappointed that Mike went out and tried to get Cutler. He needed a difference-maker at QB with the ability to air it out effectively.

What Shanny didn't account for or could not I should say, was how fast his defense fell apart. I predict he was counting on another three or four seasons of quality play from Al Wilson, DJ Williams, Trevor Pryce, Champ Bailey and a bunch of young and talented DB's while trying to rebuild the defensive line. Obviously, they made a few mistakes which became apparent rather quickly in Jarvis Moss & Tim Crowder. While trying to manage the learning curve of a rookie QB/young offense, we had a career-ending injury to Al Wilson, the undisputed leader of our defense, Trevor Pryce suffered a devastating back injury and Darent Williams got shot and killed. (Ultimately that ended Jovon Walker's career as well in retrospect, something we invested resources into.) All those factors took the soul from the defense and the unit sunk from there down to last in the league. The numerous coaching changes were merely the cherry on top. Wilson and D-Will were spark-plugs for our roster, definitely our defense.

The offense was just too young to pick up the slack. What you had in the meantime were the 07'-08' campaigns which still hovered around .500, and amazingly we were in a position to win our divisions a few times.

I felt like 09' was when we would have added a HB like Shonn Greene, made the offense LETHAL with the OL we had, combined with Cutler/Marshall/Royal in tow and then the defense would have been the first priority from then on out.

Shanny's model was the Colts... he wanted to build an offense which could go blow for blow with Manning, Brady, Big Ben while still controlling the ball with our famous rushing attack. Once the final stone was put in place on O, then we could build a defense around our young DB's who could cover the Colts from the inside, out.

It's water under the bridge but that's what I saw and why I was still bought in to him being a coach when he was fired. I could see the blue-print he was going for. I don't excuse the Slowik debacle. It simply compounded all the issues we had that Mike took such a hard-line stance on it. Bates was a huge cluster-**** tied to the draft selections of Crowder/Moss and getting rid of G. Warren and that set us back farther.

I would have given Mike another season because I thought he deserved it. I think we would have caught SD the next year.

baja
10-10-2010, 02:17 PM
Jake lost confidence in himself before Jay was drafted.

Granted he didn't play well down the stretch and especially in the AFCC but he had all his confidence. He had his swagger and the team fully behind him.

Dagmar
10-10-2010, 02:18 PM
I think a lot of things coincided at the same time:

I think Shanny took his team as far as it could go with a Jake Plummer at the helm. That guy could not win big time games. Jake was a smoke n' mirrors QB who worked wonders until we ran into a team that could stop our run game. Then when he didn't have mis-directions and bootlegs to live off of, he couldn't just sit back and pick teams apart. It was proven time and again so I'm not disappointed that he went out and tried to get Cutler.

What Shanny didn't account for or could not I should say, was how fast his defense fell apart. I think he was counting on another three or four seasons of solid play out of Al Wilson, DJ Williams, Champ Bailey and a bunch of young and talented DB's while trying to rebuild the defensive line. Obviously, they made a few mistakes (Moss/Crowder). While trying to transform the offense we had a career ending injury to Al Wilson, the undisputed leader of our defense and Darent Williams get shot and killed. That took the soul from the defense and the unit sunk from there on to last in the league. Those two guys were spark-plugs for our roster, definitely our defense. The offense was just too young to pick up the slack. What you had in the meantime were the 07'-08' campaigns which still hovered around .500, and amazingly we were in a position to win our divisions a few times.

I felt like 09' was when we would have added a HB like Shonn Greene, made the offense LETHAL with the OL we had, combined with Cutler/Marshall/Royal in tow and then the defense would have been the first priority from then on out.

Shanny's model was the Colts... he wanted to build an offense that could score blow for blow with Manning while still controlling the ball with the run via Shanny ball and then build a defense around the DB's who could cover the Colts from the inside, out.

It's water under the bridge but that's how I saw it go down. I don't excuse the Slowik debacle. It simply compounded all the issues we had that Mike took such a hard-line stance on it. Bates was a huge cluster-****. I would have given Mike another season because I thought we deserved it and I think we were going to catch SD the next year.

Shanny could have controlled keeping Slowik, but losing Wilson so quickly was a death knell.

bpc
10-10-2010, 02:19 PM
He lost confidence in himself when Cutler was drafted. He was never the same form that day on.

Jake can't stand a little competition....

Look at Orton in the same situation this year with Tebow.

Orton = Man

Jake Plummer = Spineless, unclutch, little bitch, hence why Mike wanted him gone as our QB in Denver.

gunns
10-10-2010, 02:19 PM
Never actually "lost" faith ... but before Jim Goodman, his drafts were nothing less than catastrophies.

Marcus Nash
Eric Brown
Travis McGriff
Deltha O'Neal
Willie Middlebrooks
Paul Toviessi
Ashley Lelie
George Foster


I was going to put this also. I don't believe I was losing faith, but I was questioning some of his moves as early as Nash. I was losing faith when he took Lelie. I have to question any team that takes a WR in the first round and yes, that means I'm questioning McD for that move, but not yet losing faith.

Dagmar
10-10-2010, 02:22 PM
I was going to put this also. I don't believe I was losing faith, but I was questioning some of his moves as early as Nash. I was losing faith when he took Lelie. I have to question any team that takes a WR in the first round and yes, that means I'm questioning McD for that move, but not yet losing faith.

You are seriously still doubting Thomas??

baja
10-10-2010, 02:37 PM
Do we know the extent of Bay Bay's injury?

colonelbeef
10-10-2010, 04:01 PM
Never, the guy is a HOF coach, the best the Denver Broncos have had by far, and he will win again in the NFL.

He took Jake Plummer to an AFCCG, that alone is an amazing achievement

colonelbeef
10-10-2010, 04:03 PM
I think a lot of things coincided at the same time:

I think Shanny took his team as far as it could go with a Jake Plummer at the helm. That guy could not win big time games. Jake was a smoke n' mirrors QB who worked wonders until we ran into a team that could stop our run game. Then when he didn't have mis-directions and bootlegs to live off of, he couldn't just sit back and pick teams apart. He started throwing picks. It was proven time and again so I'm not disappointed that he went out and tried to get Cutler.

What Shanny didn't account for or could not I should say, was how fast his defense fell apart. I think he was counting on another three or four seasons of solid play out of Al Wilson, DJ Williams, Champ Bailey and a bunch of young and talented DB's while trying to rebuild the defensive line. Obviously, they made a few mistakes in Moss/Crowder. While trying to transform the offense we had a career ending injury to Al Wilson, the undisputed leader of our defense and Darent Williams got shot and killed. (Ultimately that ended Jovon Walker's career as well in retrospect, something we invested resources into.) That took the soul from the defense and the unit sunk from there on to last in the league. Those two guys were spark-plugs for our roster, definitely our defense. The offense was just too young to pick up the slack. What you had in the meantime were the 07'-08' campaigns which still hovered around .500, and amazingly we were in a position to win our divisions a few times.

I felt like 09' was when we would have added a HB like Shonn Greene, made the offense LETHAL with the OL we had, combined with Cutler/Marshall/Royal in tow and then the defense would have been the first priority from then on out.

Shanny's model was the Colts... he wanted to build an offense that could score blow for blow with Manning while still controlling the ball with the run via Shanny ball and then build a defense around the DB's who could cover the Colts from the inside, out.

It's water under the bridge but that's how I saw it go down. I don't excuse the Slowik debacle. It simply compounded all the issues we had that Mike took such a hard-line stance on it. Bates was a huge cluster-**** tied to the draft selections of Crowder/Moss and getting rid of G. Warren. I would have given Mike another season because I thought we deserved it and I think we were going to catch SD the next year.

Spot on, well said.

fontaine
10-10-2010, 04:07 PM
I may be wrong, but didn't it come out later that Jake had not been fully committed during practice/preperation during the week which was one of the big reasons why Shanahan went with Cutler mid season?

bpc
10-10-2010, 07:18 PM
I may be wrong, but didn't it come out later that Jake had not been fully committed during practice/preperation during the week which was one of the big reasons why Shanahan went with Cutler mid season?

Jake Plummer still bitches about Shanahan working him to death til this day. Check him any time he's on with Rome. He whines like a little girl.

Go play some racket-ball Jake. You probably fail in the quarter-finals there too.

Florida_Bronco
10-10-2010, 07:38 PM
Jake Plummer still b****es about Shanahan working him to death til this day. Check him any time he's on with Rome. He whines like a little girl.

Go play some racket-ball Jake. You probably fail in the quarter-finals there too.

And yet, Jake was unquestionably more liked and respected within the organization than Jay Cutler ever was.

lostknight
10-10-2010, 07:54 PM
He lost confidence in himself when Cutler was drafted. He was never the same form that day on.

That's true enough. Jake wasn't interested in playing, if it wasn't on his terms with people not questioning him.

HAT
10-10-2010, 08:20 PM
Jake Plummer still b****es about Shanahan working him to death til this day. Check him any time he's on with Rome. He whines like a little girl.

Go play some racket-ball Jake. You probably fail in the quarter-finals there too.

Racquetball. Were you wearing your Letterman's jacket when you misspelled that?

bpc
10-10-2010, 08:25 PM
And yet, Jake was unquestionably more liked and respected within the organization than Jay Cutler ever was.

Ok. Jake's chillin in Idaho somewhere. Jay's still in the league probably making top 5-10 QB money.

Jake was a huge loser before Shanahan resuscitated his career and made him a winner. Not the other way around. He should be praising Mike's name, not bashing it.

Tim
10-10-2010, 08:29 PM
I never lost faith in his coaching ability but after keary colbert and some other terrible personnel moves I didn't like his management

bpc
10-10-2010, 08:31 PM
Racquetball. Were you wearing your Letterman's jacket when you misspelled that?

I'm not sure what kind of joke you were going for here. A jock dig?

Weak.

Spell-check missed it so i'm not sweating it.

BTW, Racquetball, Racket-ball, who gives a ****?

bpc
10-10-2010, 08:37 PM
I may be wrong, but didn't it come out later that Jake had not been fully committed during practice/preperation during the week which was one of the big reasons why Shanahan went with Cutler mid season?

Jake Plummer's work-ethic was **** and that's why he sucked in Arizona and eventually got benched by Mike Shanahan and ran out of the league. He was more interested in getting to practice a few minutes late after surfing brah', than putting in the work to be great and that's why Mike couldn't stand him. It's why we were getting destroyed by Indy every time we got on the same field with Peyton Manning, a guy willing to put in the extra time. It's also why he folded up like a sunday chair in the face of some competition from Jay Cutler.

He quit and gave up. That's all you need to know about the man.

uplink
10-10-2010, 09:27 PM
Lost faith when Shanny threatened to quit that year and coach the Florida Gators after the Colts loss. Bowlen went to Shanny's castle bearing gifts of cigars and a contract extension, but Shanny didn't insist on Cubans.

footstepsfrom#27
10-11-2010, 01:15 AM
Browncos baby...nuff said.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-11-2010, 06:40 AM
Baja, we gave up the #29 pick and the #15 to move up to 11 and draft Gay Cuddler.

jhns
10-11-2010, 06:49 AM
I never lost faith in him. He will win more games this year with a top five pick team than McDaniels will win after two years of rebuilding a .500 team.

baja
10-11-2010, 07:19 AM
Baja, we gave up the #29 pick and the #15 to move up to 11 and draft Gay Cuddler.

Thanks Moose.

So Josh and Xman parlayed Denver's #15 & #29 into #12 & #18 plus a quarterback ( Kyle Orton ) that is a better fit for Josh's system than the original Cutler and a 3rd round pick. Not bad

fontaine
10-11-2010, 07:26 AM
I really didn't lose faith in Shanahan as the coach (still haven't, look at the skins now).

It was more a dawning realization that Shanahan didn't know how to fix a defense from the trenches and couldn't bring in someone who could either.

Firing Coyer when we just needed to revisit the DL was too much. That started the whole slide from Bates to Slowik.

Dagmar
10-11-2010, 07:30 AM
Jake Plummer's work-ethic was **** and that's why he sucked in Arizona and eventually got benched by Mike Shanahan and ran out of the league. He was more interested in getting to practice a few minutes late after surfing brah', than putting in the work to be great and that's why Mike couldn't stand him. It's why we were getting destroyed by Indy every time we got on the same field with Peyton Manning, a guy willing to put in the extra time. It's also why he folded up like a sunday chair in the face of some competition from Jay Cutler.

He quit and gave up. That's all you need to know about the man.

Thank god we didn't pick up a fat QB who the night before the Raiders game in 08 was witnessed out getting hammered downtown.

Rabb
10-11-2010, 07:31 AM
I miss Shanny, but I lost all faith the second he announced after the 2008 season that Slowik would be back

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-11-2010, 07:31 AM
I really didn't lose faith in Shanahan as the coach (still haven't, look at the skins now).

It was more a dawning realization that Shanahan didn't know how to fix a defense from the trenches and couldn't bring in someone who could either.

Firing Coyer when we just needed to revisit the DL was too much. That started the whole slide from Bates to Slowik.

True. And I think Bates actually should have been given another year. The guy's second year in both Green Bay and Miami had both those defenses in the top 10.

Dagmar
10-11-2010, 07:41 AM
Maybe this is the week for an avatar change Moose?

Rohirrim
10-11-2010, 07:44 AM
That last season when the Faders kicked our ass in our own house. At that point I wanted the entire staff fired, from Shanahan on down.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-11-2010, 07:47 AM
Maybe this is the week for an avatar change Moose?

That's good thinkin', Dagmar.

ColoradoDarin
10-11-2010, 09:25 AM
True. And I think Bates actually should have been given another year. The guy's second year in both Green Bay and Miami had both those defenses in the top 10.

I would have liked Bates to get even one year here. He got, what, 6 games?

Drek
10-11-2010, 10:24 AM
Shanny's model was the Colts... he wanted to build an offense which could go blow for blow with Manning, Brady, Big Ben while still controlling the ball with our famous rushing attack. Once the final stone was put in place on O, then we could build a defense around our young DB's who could cover the Colts from the inside, out.

Who exactly were these young DBs you're talking about?

Darrent Williams, taken from us far too early for sure, but Shanahan had several years to fill that void and his answer was Dre Bly.

Bringing in Dre Bly directly lead to trading Dominique Foxworth for nothing and Karl Paymah can't keep a job in the league.

Was Hamza Abdullah the missing key to this puzzle you're describing?

The only young DB he brought in the last couple years here was Josh Barrett, a 7th rounder who spent what little action he saw here under Shanahan almost exclusively on special teams.

This is after all the HC/GM who had his '08 Denver Broncos playing with Marlon McCree, Marquand Manuel, Dre Bly, and Champ Bailey as the starting secondary to open the season.

There was almost no young talent on the D during Shanahan's final years here. Your entire supposition that he was icing off the offense for the next half decade or more before turning to the defense is completely ****. The only three guys on our D then worth keeping were Doom, DJ, and Champ. So Doom was the only legitimate young talent still on the roster. He was going to add 8 starters over just a couple seasons hmm?

cdesignmaster
10-11-2010, 10:41 AM
I lost faith in McDaniels before the draft last year. Even the Redskins are 3-2 right now, go Shannahan.

jhns
10-11-2010, 10:46 AM
I lost faith in McDaniels before the draft last year. Even the Redskins are 3-2 right now, go Shannahan.

This.

It is funny how much people here make excuses for McDaniels. Shanahan is showing what a real coach does (which is improve the team, in case that was in question).

footstepsfrom#27
10-11-2010, 01:55 PM
It is funny how much people here make excuses for McDaniels. Shanahan is showing what a real coach does (which is improve the team, in case that was in question).
Well he had a decade following the Super Bowls to improve the team and didn't, so I doubt to many people will buy into his 3-2 record as something that now suddenly distinguishing him as a guy who can improve a team. We'll need to see how he does over the next couple years before we can come close to that conclusion at this point.

jhns
10-11-2010, 02:09 PM
Well he had a decade following the Super Bowls to improve the team and didn't, so I doubt to many people will buy into his 3-2 record as something that now suddenly distinguishing him as a guy who can improve a team. We'll need to see how he does over the next couple years before we can come close to that conclusion at this point.

Now look at our record before he showed up and then look at the years after. He also had to rebuild after losing some HOF players and did a much better job at that than pretty much every other franchise that ever lost a HOF QB. He went to an AFCCG and had multiple playoff appearances soon after losing Elway. That doesn't happen unless the team already had another HOF QB waiting on the bench (49ers).

Anyways, he will show us all a lot this season. When he wins more games with a top 5 pick team than McDaniels can win after 2 years with a .500 team, he will have made his point. He is way better than McDaniels and the doubters were wrong. He will also show that a coach doesn't need the millions of excuses that McDaniels gets.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-11-2010, 02:20 PM
I keep hearing people talk about Washington's 3-2 start like it means anything at all. Sorry, I just don't buy it.

The year off may have reinvigorated him, but we'll see when the injuries start piling up and the wins start tailing off how you good folks adjust your cute little predictions.

Taco John
10-11-2010, 02:25 PM
I lost faith in McDaniels before the draft last year. Even the Redskins are 3-2 right now, go Shannahan.

McDaniels was 5-0 at this point last year. I love Shanahan, but he's got a ways to go with that team.

ColoradoDarin
10-11-2010, 03:49 PM
Shanahan's teams always have started hot and held on for the rest of the season, even when we started 13-0 in 1998 we lost 2/3 to close out the year. I was hoping that last year was going to be different, seems like you need to get some momentum going into the playoffs nowadays, but it was same story. It's one thing I hope McD can turn around, I don't have the answer other than talent on the DL.

colonelbeef
10-11-2010, 09:52 PM
Now look at our record before he showed up and then look at the years after. He also had to rebuild after losing some HOF players and did a much better job at that than pretty much every other franchise that ever lost a HOF QB. He went to an AFCCG and had multiple playoff appearances soon after losing Elway. That doesn't happen unless the team already had another HOF QB waiting on the bench (49ers).

Anyways, he will show us all a lot this season. When he wins more games with a top 5 pick team than McDaniels can win after 2 years with a .500 team, he will have made his point. He is way better than McDaniels and the doubters were wrong. He will also show that a coach doesn't need the millions of excuses that McDaniels gets.

good post. Nice to see somebody actually give Mike Shanahan some credit around here.

tsiguy96
10-11-2010, 10:24 PM
shanahan could very well be amazing with the redskins, i dont think that changes the fact that his time in denver was up, and rightfully so. he needed some time away from the game to evaluate what was going on, i think that year off may have been what he needed to really come back and field a dominant team somewhere. if he was still in denver, in all probability wed still be an 8-8 team (kinda like we are now, but still)

broncocalijohn
10-11-2010, 11:12 PM
If McDaniels doesnt find a reason or cure for our running problems, he might be on my **** list. Once the bad is outweighing the good, I will already have my papers filed when he is gone. I hope I can put a smile every week but I do know that injuries have been a big part of this season so far. If not great results, show me improvement and not being hard headed.

TheReverend
10-12-2010, 12:10 AM
Never

MrPeepers
10-12-2010, 06:54 AM
after multiple blowouts. late season collapses. vanilla defenses that began our trend of bending over to indy, san diego and baltimore. finally slowik.

really doubts crept in after the afc championship game. people always said he's never won a playoff game without elway, etc. to lose to pittsburgh at home was painful. we should have stolen the super bowl that year.

bronco militia
10-12-2010, 07:22 AM
it was time for Shanny to move on......but the broncos hired the right coach at the wrong time. Josh will be great for his next team.

vancejohnson82
10-12-2010, 07:31 AM
I lost faith in McDaniels before the draft last year. Even the Redskins are 3-2 right now, go Shannahan.

hahahahaha....

what a loser....we were 5-0 at this time last year....im sure your faith was gone...go crawl back into your hole now