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View Full Version : Baltimore sportswriter oozes contempt for Broncos.


Gort
10-08-2010, 06:03 PM
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-preston-ravens-1008-20101007,0,7763082.column

some excepts:

this first one is the title of the piece.

Ravens aren't afraid of Broncos' overrated passing attackBoth groups are overrated, but Denver is more overrated. When you take a deep look at the Broncos offense, you see a group that is soft and a passing game that's vanilla.Denver's major problem is that the Broncos haven't played a team as physical as the Ravens, and when you're as one-dimensional as Denver, that means trouble.Denver runs a West Coast offense, one predicated on short passes that are almost like running plays.what??? Shanny ran a West Coast offense. i don't think McD's offense is classified as West Coast. at least this is the first time i've ever heard anyone say that McD's offense was West Coast. am i missing something here?

It's a pea-shooter offense.He (Orton) might hit the 300-yard mark in Baltimore, but it will be more out of desperation than sticking with the game plan.That's true, but let's not go overboard. These are the Broncos. It's a new coach, but the same old act.do you guys see now why i have such little respect for the Ravens fanbase? there's very little analysis in his column. just statement of opinion as fact. this guy (Mike Preston) is a huge Ravens homer. he's also the guy who made it his mission in life to write column after column criticizing Brian Billick and trying to get Billick run out of town.

IIRC, i linked to one of his columns last year where he demonstrated similar contempt for the Broncos.

the Ravens may well win on Sunday. we'll soon enough find out. but this Ravens team is not an elite team, no matter how fervently their followers believe them to be. they barely squeaked by the Jets (by 1 point). they lost to Cincinnati. they only beat Cleveland by a TD and Pittsburgh by a FG. they haven't accomplished anything yet.

Taco John
10-08-2010, 06:04 PM
These Ravens used to be called the Browns and they were our biatches.

ColoradoDarin
10-08-2010, 06:07 PM
WCO? Why not just scream "I know NOTHING about football!"

WABronco
10-08-2010, 06:14 PM
Gaaaadddd dayummmm he mad.

It's gonna be tough in bmore. If we won this game I'd take more positive from that than any win in the last couple of years...

DarkHorse30
10-08-2010, 06:29 PM
Gaaaadddd dayummmm he mad.

It's gonna be tough in bmore. If we won this game I'd take more positive from that than any win in the last couple of years...

Going into and winning at Tennessee will help Denver know that they can hang with good defenses, even when half of their offense is completely shut down.

Everybody is going to pick Baltimore, they were a pre-season SB AFC favorite. Denver has to do everything right to pull out the win......but they can do it.

SpringStein
10-08-2010, 06:39 PM
This is an article expected on a fan board (read MHR) than a legitimate major city newspaper.

Bronco_Fan_27
10-08-2010, 07:50 PM
Wow I just read the whole report and I really wish I could punch this guy in they face hahaha.. but that's ravens fans for you.. this is mostly why I dislike the ravens more than teams in our own division

ghwk
10-08-2010, 07:51 PM
Man I hope we beat the snot out of these guys.

Garcia Bronco
10-08-2010, 07:52 PM
It's a west coast offense.

Bronco Rob
10-08-2010, 07:53 PM
Man I hope we beat the snot out of these guys.

;)

Al Wilson
10-08-2010, 07:55 PM
I think we're gonna come out and whip them. I'm sure Josh didn't forget how they beat us last year.

Tombstone RJ
10-08-2010, 08:06 PM
It's a west coast offense.

I thought it was a spread offense. Doesn't the WCO usually incorporate the TEs way more into the passing game? I guess it really doesn't matter how you classify offenses and defenses these days, there is so much overlap...

LonghornBronco
10-08-2010, 08:15 PM
Some similarities to the WCO, but more like the spread that Urban Meyer has had success with, definitly not WCO more like run and shoot than WCO IMHO.

LonghornBronco
10-08-2010, 08:18 PM
Here is a good article about the spread we are currently running.
http://www.footballtimes.org/Article.asp?ID=217

Rulon Velvet Jones
10-08-2010, 08:38 PM
Where's Omar when you need him?

lostknight
10-08-2010, 08:56 PM
It boggles the mind. It really does. It's idiots like this that don't understand exactly why McDaniels was going after Tebow.

Arkie
10-08-2010, 09:20 PM
Gaaaadddd dayummmm he mad.

It's gonna be tough in bmore. If we won this game I'd take more positive from that than any win in the last couple of years...

This. I picked Baltimore for the Super Bowl.

broncocalijohn
10-08-2010, 09:36 PM
This is an article expected on a fan board (read MHR) than a legitimate major city newspaper.

or bleacher report.

Archer81
10-08-2010, 09:42 PM
Broncos Fan tells Baltimore sportswriter to go **** a rhino...


:Broncos:

Broncos_OTM
10-08-2010, 09:58 PM
last year they played our short passing game really good. we are gonna have to put it deep on them a couple times espeically since Ed Reed is not out there. I dont know about this game seems we could be a trap game for them. Hopefully we can get some what of a run game going. I doubt it though. I am still fumeing we got Maroney. the one running back i cant stand.

epicSocialism4tw
10-08-2010, 10:14 PM
These Ravens used to be called the Browns and they were our biatches.

Rep.

These fools received the brunt of The Drive.

Not only that, but they are now named after the hallucinations of an opium fiend. ;D

Los Broncos
10-08-2010, 10:40 PM
**** the Ravens, go out there and **** their world up.

Florida_Bronco
10-08-2010, 10:53 PM
I thought it was a spread offense.

It is.

TheReverend
10-08-2010, 11:01 PM
It's not a WCO, but what we've been doing with the failure of the running game is nearly identical in idealogy of high %, short passing plays. So it's not like he's WAY off.

strafen
10-08-2010, 11:16 PM
I think our passing offense is as good as any in the league right now, and perhaps one of the best we've ever had.
So, with that said, we're still short on the running game, and that's what hurts us at the moment.
This game will be a test for both team. I believe Baltimore is the top rated defense against the pass and we're number one passing offense.
I like our chances there, but then again, it could be tough not having a running game that can keep the Ravens' defense honest...

Early game, east coast and Baltimore has always been a tough customer...

Taco John
10-09-2010, 10:59 AM
I thought it was a spread offense. Doesn't the WCO usually incorporate the TEs way more into the passing game? I guess it really doesn't matter how you classify offenses and defenses these days, there is so much overlap...


It's the spread option applied to the Erhardt-Perkins base scheme but also borrowing heavily from elements of the West Coast. The spread option isn't an offense, so much as it's a philosophy applied to an offense.

Dagmar
10-09-2010, 11:29 AM
Hey Mike Preston...

http://incolor.inebraska.com/billd/images/SAS/titansflip.gif

Rohirrim
10-09-2010, 12:14 PM
Here is a good article about the spread we are currently running.
http://www.footballtimes.org/Article.asp?ID=217

When you read that piece, it makes you think that Orton was not just a piece of the Cutler trade, but a guy that Josh actually targeted.

cmhargrove
10-09-2010, 12:32 PM
Why does everyone still think we are a short passing offense? I can't remember when I have seen more deep passes thrown by our Broncos. Sure the short ones are there, but we are finally taking more shots downfield and I love it.

Swedish Extrovert
10-09-2010, 12:37 PM
Why does everyone still think we are a short passing offense? I can't remember when I have seen more deep passes thrown by our Broncos. Sure the short ones are there, but we are finally taking more shots downfield and I love it.

We use the short pass toe set up the long pass. We do throw a lot of short passes, but obviously we aren't EXCLUSIVELY a short-pass team. In fact, I saw something about Kyle Orton leading the league in passing attempts for over 25 yards.

Anyone?

Florida_Bronco
10-09-2010, 01:12 PM
It's the spread option applied to the Erhardt-Perkins base scheme but also borrowing heavily from elements of the West Coast. The spread option isn't an offense, so much as it's a philosophy applied to an offense.

It's pretty clear you've never watched a true Erhardt-Perkins offense.

Taco John
10-09-2010, 01:26 PM
It's pretty clear you've never watched a true Erhardt-Perkins offense.


Everybody has.

ColoradoDarin
10-09-2010, 01:37 PM
Everybody has.

But what you said above was like saying they both run and pass the football, therefore, the systems are the same!

NYBronco
10-09-2010, 01:39 PM
IF Denver gets a win vs Baltimore it will all be due to LUCK... just ask Woody.

TheProfessor
10-09-2010, 01:40 PM
Denver runs a West Coast offense...


"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

-- Abraham Lincoln

Florida_Bronco
10-09-2010, 01:44 PM
Everybody has.

You haven't, otherwise you wouldn't keep posting this nonsense.

There is very, very little resemblance to the Erhardt-Perkins offense here. The base formation for that offense is a single back set with two tight ends. We only see that very rarely with Josh, and then almost exclusively on running downs. If you want to get downright anal about it, you see more of the WCO borrowings here than the old Erhardt Perkins offense.

You should go read the article Longhorn posted or failing that, go watch some Patriot games from when Weis was calling the plays and then after when Josh was the OC. They look nothing alike.

Lev Vyvanse
10-09-2010, 01:49 PM
I want to know how you can run the spread option with no option plays?

TheProfessor
10-09-2010, 01:58 PM
I want to know how you can run the spread option with no option plays?

So, now what is the Spread Option Offense?

The Spread is about matchups. Remember David Givens? How can we get our speedy playmakers the ball? The spread is about getting the ball thrown, handed off, pitched, or snapped to speedy offensive playmakers in space to let them work their magic.

If you have the better athletes, you can win with any type of offense. Eddie George won in the I-formation. You have to have the best talent. After that, it doesn't really matter what offense you run. Urban Meyer thinks that if a coach says he doesn't have the players to run his offense, then the coach needs to be fired. How many times do you hear a coach say, "I don't have a West Coast quarterback, so I can't run my offense." Coaches need to adapt to their talent. Something Meyer did well with Alex Smith at Utah and Leak at Florida. It wasn't until Tebow started that the Spread Option was in full gear (the way Harris used to run it in it's infancy at Bowling Green).

The Spread Option offense is about an offensive versus defensive numbers game. Similar to a basketball fast break, except Meyer adds a read option. If the quarterback reads the option correctly, the offense is always right! The offense should always outnumber or match the defense.

The Spread wants to use the entire field. Make the defense defend all 53 yards of width and 100 yards of length. The spread wants to even out the numbers. If the quarterback can run, you have 11 offensive players against 11 defensive players. If the quarterback can't run, then you are down to 10 offensive players versus 11 defensive players. If the quarterback hands off to a running back, you are down to 9 versus 11, because neither the QB nor RB can be involved in blocking for the ball carrier.

The Spread is an offensive philosophy. It is not a formation. It is not a collection of plays. It's not a playbook. Everyone has plays and playbooks. It's about implementation of an entirely new thought process and new approach to football which tries to showcase the playmakers. It's a process, not a collection of plays.

Lev Vyvanse
10-09-2010, 02:02 PM
The Spread Option offense is about an offensive versus defensive numbers game. Similar to a basketball fast break, except Meyer adds a read option. If the quarterback reads the option correctly, the offense is always right! The offense should always outnumber or match the defense.

The Spread wants to use the entire field. Make the defense defend all 53 yards of width and 100 yards of length. The spread wants to even out the numbers. If the quarterback can run, you have 11 offensive players against 11 defensive players. If the quarterback can't run, then you are down to 10 offensive players versus 11 defensive players. If the quarterback hands off to a running back, you are down to 9 versus 11, because neither the QB nor RB can be involved in blocking for the ball carrier.

The Spread is an offensive philosophy. It is not a formation. It is not a collection of plays. It's not a playbook. Everyone has plays and playbooks. It's about implementation of an entirely new thought process and new approach to football which tries to showcase the playmakers. It's a process, not a collection of plays.


Do you know what a read option play is? Because the Broncos don't run them.

TheProfessor
10-09-2010, 02:10 PM
Do you know what a read option play is? Because the Broncos don't run them.

To the best of my understanding you can incorporate the "read option" in a QB/RB exchange and in the passing game. I don't think it only is used in a QB option system.

Lev Vyvanse
10-09-2010, 02:18 PM
To the best of my understanding you can incorporate the "read option" in a QB/RB exchange and in the passing game. I don't think it only is used in a QB option system.

The read option is a running play. You think Orton is reading the D after the snap then deciding if its a run or pass?

Kaylore
10-09-2010, 02:24 PM
"Spread offense" and using multiple receiver formations are not the same thing. They are not mutually exclusive, obviously, but we don't run the spread.

broncocalijohn
10-09-2010, 02:25 PM
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

-- Abraham Lincoln

I think that was Mark Twain who said that. Maybe YOU should not have opened your mouth (or is it me?).

Lev Vyvanse
10-09-2010, 02:29 PM
Here is a read option play. The QB reads the DL and has the option to give it to the RB or take it himself.
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TheProfessor
10-09-2010, 02:41 PM
I think that was Mark Twain who said that. Maybe YOU should not have opened your mouth (or is it me?).

It's been atributed to Lincoln, twain, one spot even said it was Franklin.

I picked lincoln

Taco John
10-09-2010, 02:53 PM
You haven't, otherwise you wouldn't keep posting this nonsense.

There is very, very little resemblance to the Erhardt-Perkins offense here. The base formation for that offense is a single back set with two tight ends. We only see that very rarely with Josh, and then almost exclusively on running downs. If you want to get downright anal about it, you see more of the WCO borrowings here than the old Erhardt Perkins offense.

You should go read the article Longhorn posted or failing that, go watch some Patriot games from when Weis was calling the plays and then after when Josh was the OC. They look nothing alike.


I understand all of what you are saying. I've spent a lot of time researching and examining formations in the last couple of weeks, and from what I've been able to gather, we run an offense that modifies the EPO with the best things in the WCO and apply a Spread Option philosophy. Strictly speaking, you're right that what Josh runs isn't a strict EPO. I'm not saying that it is a strict EPO. But what I am saying is that that appears to be his base building block. He's modified it and made his own creation by borrowing from the best things that the other philosophies have to offer. But you can't say this offense is a west coast offense. It's not. It just has elements of it. But at it's core is still the same goals as the EPO: stretching the field and opening up dead zones in the defense where they can be attacked.

Dagmar
10-09-2010, 02:55 PM
We really fight about anything here. To be fair, I am really enjoying this discussion.

Lev Vyvanse
10-09-2010, 03:06 PM
I understand all of what you are saying. I've spent a lot of time researching and examining formations in the last couple of weeks, and from what I've been able to gather, we run an offense that modifies the EPO with the best things in the WCO and apply a Spread Option philosophy. Strictly speaking, you're right that what Josh runs isn't a strict EPO. I'm not saying that it is a strict EPO. But what I am saying is that that appears to be his base building block. He's modified it and made his own creation by borrowing from the best things that the other philosophies have to offer. But you can't say this offense is a west coast offense. It's not. It just has elements of it. But at it's core is still the same goals as the EPO: stretching the field and opening up dead zones in the defense where they can be attacked.

How can you have a spread option philosophy with no option plays? I agree we use the Meyers philosophy, but the spread option is a set of plays.

TheProfessor
10-09-2010, 03:12 PM
Here is a read option play. The QB reads the DL and has the option to give it to the RB or take it himself.


In that case, why can't the option be between handing the ball to the running back, and throwing it to a reciever on the other side of the field.

You asked originaly how you can run the spread option without a running QB. The article said the basis of the spread option was simply a philosophy to put the defense in out numbered situations. Though a dual threat QB is perfect for this, I would assume that the system could be run without one. It just forces you to work out of a 10 on 11 situation from the start. But the read and the option to do something based on that read still exists.

Florida_Bronco
10-09-2010, 03:15 PM
I understand all of what you are saying. I've spent a lot of time researching and examining formations in the last couple of weeks, and from what I've been able to gather, we run an offense that modifies the EPO with the best things in the WCO and apply a Spread Option philosophy. Strictly speaking, you're right that what Josh runs isn't a strict EPO. I'm not saying that it is a strict EPO. But what I am saying is that that appears to be his base building block. He's modified it and made his own creation by borrowing from the best things that the other philosophies have to offer. But you can't say this offense is a west coast offense. It's not. It just has elements of it. But at it's core is still the same goals as the EPO: stretching the field and opening up dead zones in the defense where they can be attacked.

You're right. It's not a West Coast Offense and it's not an Erhardt-Perkins Offense. It's a spread offense run predominantly out of the shotgun that employs elements of those two more traditional offenses. It would be pretty foolish to apply either of those labels to such a hybrid style offense.

As more and more teams start to adopt this style offense, I'm sure it will get it's own label.

Lev Vyvanse
10-09-2010, 03:16 PM
In that case, why can't the option be between handing the ball to the running back, and throwing it to a reciever on the other side of the field.

You asked originaly how you can run the spread option without a running QB. The article said the basis of the spread option was simply a philosophy to put the defense in out numbered situations. Though a dual threat QB is perfect for this, I would assume that the system could be run without one. It just forces you to work out of a 10 on 11 situation from the start. But the read and the option to do something based on that read still exists.

So what you are saying Orton reads the D after the snap and decides if it's a run or pass?

Taco John
10-09-2010, 03:18 PM
So what you are saying Orton reads the D after the snap and decides if it's a run or pass?

Before the snap. Spread option uses pre-snap reads.

TheProfessor
10-09-2010, 03:22 PM
So you are saying Orton reads the D after the snap and decides if it's a run or pass?


I thought that's what he was doing last year when we ran some of those fake handoff's out of the shotgun.

Now, I haven't seen much of this in 2010, then again, our running game is currentely non existent.

TheProfessor
10-09-2010, 03:23 PM
Before the snap. Spread option uses pre-snap reads.
It also reads the DE post snap

Lev Vyvanse
10-09-2010, 03:31 PM
It also reads the DE post snap

Thats the read option play that Florida, Bowling Green and Utah ran all the time.
The spread option refers to the running game. It's not an option to pass it's a option running play.

_Oro_
10-09-2010, 03:31 PM
You're right. It's not a West Coast Offense and it's not an Erhardt-Perkins Offense. It's a spread offense run predominantly out of the shotgun that employs elements of those two more traditional offenses. It would be pretty foolish to apply either of those labels to such a hybrid style offense.

As more and more teams start to adopt this style offense, I'm sure it will get it's own label.

The McPoopy Offense

Dedhed
10-09-2010, 04:27 PM
Why does everyone still think we are a short passing offense?

Because they don't watch the games, and just assume that Orton is the same Orton he was in Chicago, and that he was last year while learning the offense.

Lev Vyvanse
10-09-2010, 04:34 PM
Before the snap. Spread option uses pre-snap reads.

Do you know what an option offence is? It has nothing to do with the passing game.

Chris
10-09-2010, 04:43 PM
Do you know what an option offence is? It has nothing to do with the passing game.

It has to do with options.

Lots of options.

Lev Vyvanse
10-09-2010, 04:55 PM
It has to do with options.

Lots of options.

No, it's the option run. As in read the D post snap and either give to the HB or the QB runs it. Same play Tebow ran over and over again.

ColoradoDarin
10-09-2010, 05:05 PM
You're right. It's not a West Coast Offense and it's not an Erhardt-Perkins Offense. It's a spread offense run predominantly out of the shotgun that employs elements of those two more traditional offenses. It would be pretty foolish to apply either of those labels to such a hybrid style offense.

As more and more teams start to adopt this style offense, I'm sure it will get it's own label.

The Amoeba offense is what they called it in NE McDaniels last year there.

Lev Vyvanse
10-09-2010, 05:10 PM
Before the snap. Spread option uses pre-snap reads.

So... Pre-snap read run or pass. Really?

oubronco
10-09-2010, 05:13 PM
So... Pre-snap read run or pass. Really?

Yes pretty much sums it up

Lev Vyvanse
10-09-2010, 05:15 PM
Absolute embarrass.

oubronco
10-09-2010, 05:22 PM
where's her bare ass

mhgaffney
10-09-2010, 08:55 PM
I'd like to see D Thomas burn the Ravens for two or three long TDs.

This rookie has everything necessary -- including amazing speed for a big man -- to bury the Ravens.

I hope coach McD is planning a sneak attack using D Thomas to get behind the Raven D.

Burn em Big D!

Hey, I kind of like "Big D" -- I like it better than the other nick names I have heard. Bey Bey sucks.

Big players make big plays. Hence -- Big D

Has a nice ring to it.

I suspect the ladies will agree.

mhgaffney
10-09-2010, 08:57 PM
Burn 'em Big D

Nuf said.

STBumpkin
10-09-2010, 09:42 PM
I'd like to see D Thomas burn the Ravens for two or three long TDs.

This rookie has everything necessary -- including amazing speed for a big man -- to bury the Ravens.

I hope coach McD is planning a sneak attack using D Thomas to get behind the Raven D.

Burn em Big D!

Hey, I kind of like "Big D" -- I like it better than the other nick names I have heard. Bey Bey sucks.

Big players make big plays. Hence -- Big D

Has a nice ring to it.

I suspect the ladies will agree.

'Big D' to most of the US is Dallas. Won't work, find something original.

baja
10-09-2010, 10:11 PM
Paul Bunyon

baja
10-09-2010, 10:11 PM
Or Blue Ox

Kaylore
10-09-2010, 10:46 PM
"Big D" is for Dallas specifically and defense generally. It's a horrible nickname for a player, unless the player's name was Dallas, which would be clever.