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TheReverend
10-06-2010, 01:07 PM
Our OL coach... worked under Gibbs in Atlanta in the mid 2000s before joining the Chargers in 2007. Before he signed on in SD, the Chargers rushed for 2600 yards at 4.9 a clip. In 2007 that production dipped to 2000 and 4.2 and in 2008 he finished murdering their rushing game and the result was 1700 yards at 4.1 a pop.

Why is he here? Imo, we should've gotten a real replacement after Dennison, not let his assistant do a piss poor job in another city.

Kaylore
10-06-2010, 01:12 PM
No joke I was looking at this today and thought about starting this thread! I was watching the game last night and thinking "they look poorly coached" and then noticed this. I'm not sure if it's the drills or what, but I definitely think position coaching should be looked at. We've seen this unit play better in all phases and they aren't getting it done. There is no urgency off the ball, they don't use their hands well, and there is a lack of tenacity.

azbroncfan
10-06-2010, 01:13 PM
Our OL coach... worked under Gibbs in Atlanta in the mid 2000s before joining the Chargers in 2007. Before he signed on in SD, the Chargers rushed for 2600 yards at 4.9 a clip. In 2007 that production dipped to 2000 and 4.2 and in 2008 he finished murdering their rushing game and the result was 1700 yards at 4.1 a pop.

Why is he here? Imo, we should've gotten a real replacement after Dennison, not let his assistant do a piss poor job in another city.

The drop in San Diego has more to do with Marty not being there than the inept Norv Turner. Still guys track record is showing a marginal trend like you said.

bronco militia
10-06-2010, 01:16 PM
http://prod.static.broncos.clubs.nfl.com//assets/images/imported/DEN/photos/persons/coach-cards/wylie_bob_card.jpg

http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/coaches/Bob-Wylie/d9113369-72b6-46a0-8537-d9ca1ceeeb09

http://prod.static.broncos.clubs.nfl.com//assets/images/imported/DEN/photos/persons/coach-cards/barone_clancy2.jpg

http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/coaches/Clancy-Barone/fa486afc-3fa6-4733-9c9d-a497fc0f87d9

Popps
10-06-2010, 01:26 PM
No joke I was looking at this today and thought about starting this thread! I was watching the game last night and thinking "they look poorly coached" and then noticed this. I'm not sure if it's the drills or what, but I definitely think position coaching should be looked at. We've seen this unit play better in all phases and they aren't getting it done. There is no urgency off the ball, they don't use their hands well, and there is a lack of tenacity.

Wondered about that, myself. I don't claim to be savvy enough to do a realistic OL positional breakdown of an NFL team, but it's easy enough to look at the sum of the moving parts and assume something is very wrong.

Steve Sewell
10-06-2010, 01:33 PM
http://prod.static.broncos.clubs.nfl.com//assets/images/imported/DEN/photos/persons/coach-cards/barone_clancy2.jpg



The most interesting man in the world.

Tombstone RJ
10-06-2010, 01:37 PM
Looking at the vid it's apparent the oline is not in sync and that they are slow off the snap. Their alignment is also questionable, but I've noticed that many NFL teams oline alignment is not very good. Still, this all points to lack of caring about detail and a very basic lack of sound fundamentals...

JCMElway
10-06-2010, 01:41 PM
The most interesting man in the world.

My offensive line doesn't always block, but when they do.....

TheReverend
10-06-2010, 01:51 PM
My offensive line doesn't always block, but when they do.....

...they prefer to do it behind the LOS

Drek
10-06-2010, 01:52 PM
Our OL coach... worked under Gibbs in Atlanta in the mid 2000s before joining the Chargers in 2007. Before he signed on in SD, the Chargers rushed for 2600 yards at 4.9 a clip. In 2007 that production dipped to 2000 and 4.2 and in 2008 he finished murdering their rushing game and the result was 1700 yards at 4.1 a pop.

Why is he here? Imo, we should've gotten a real replacement after Dennison, not let his assistant do a piss poor job in another city.
During your research did you happen upon the fact that while in San Diego he coached the tight ends, not the OL? Same job he did for us last year.

His last time coaching an OL was in 2004 for the Falcons, as you said under Alex Gibbs. The Falcons were the #1 rushing offense in the NFL that year.

cutthemdown
10-06-2010, 01:54 PM
It's more to do with youth inside, Kuper and Clady not playing well, and Harris being injured.

gyldenlove
10-06-2010, 01:57 PM
We know that Kuper and Clady can play at a very high level, Harris is just back from injury and can not be expected to be 100% yet, Daniels and Walton are both relative unknowns in terms of their NFL level, however it does look like the players are not performing individually and as a unit as well as they should.

I don't think we can really judge the offensive line for a couple of games because Harris does need a few games to his feet under him, but if it does not pick up significantly over the next 3 or 4 games it has to be coaching. We are not doing anything that looks too exotic or demanding out there so they should be able to deal with it.

TheReverend
10-06-2010, 02:06 PM
During your research did you happen upon the fact that while in San Diego he coached the tight ends, not the OL? Same job he did for us last year.

His last time coaching an OL was in 2004 for the Falcons, as you said under Alex Gibbs. The Falcons were the #1 rushing offense in the NFL that year.

Nice catch.

Very interesting. I just had assumed he was qualified for the job. Apparently I was way off!

And re: "coaching the Falcons OL". We all know it was Gibbs that season. And interesting that after Gibbs stopped coaching and became a consultant for the Falcons, Barone was immediately "demoted" to coaching the tight ends.

I feel even worse about this guy now, thanks for that.

cmhargrove
10-06-2010, 02:07 PM
I don't mean to sound like a girl, but:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=94186&referrerid=6326

TheReverend
10-06-2010, 02:12 PM
I don't mean to sound like a girl, but:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=94186&referrerid=6326

Ooops. Sorry. haven't been around much and didn't use the search function.

cmhargrove
10-06-2010, 02:16 PM
Ooops. Sorry. haven't been around much and didn't use the search function.

It's ok, i'm over it. The topic is what is important.

My take is that Barone is a Tight Ends coach that wanted to advance his career. He may have earned the chance at a promotion, but I don't know if he should keep it.

I personally think we have the talent to be a much better rushing team. I think Barone is not the teacher that Dennison was.

Rock Chalk
10-06-2010, 02:17 PM
To be fair there were MANY people that didn't think Dennison was very good at first either.

Not defending the guy or really commenting one way or another, just pointing out that you internet nitwits dont know ****.

TheReverend
10-06-2010, 02:32 PM
It's ok, i'm over it. The topic is what is important.

My take is that Barone is a Tight Ends coach that wanted to advance his career. He may have earned the chance at a promotion, but I don't know if he should keep it.

I personally think we have the talent to be a much better rushing team. I think Barone is not the teacher that Dennison was.

But... did he?

Did Richard Quinn's development from 2009 to now really warrant a promotion?

Rock Chalk
10-06-2010, 02:35 PM
But... did he?

Did Richard Quinn's development from 2009 to now really warrant a promotion?

When you polish a turd you end up with, yep, a turd.

Just saying.

Again not defending the guy or commenting one way or another, just pointing to an immutable fact.

Rock Chalk
10-06-2010, 02:40 PM
What I will comment on this topic on is that it is too early to judge our Oline coach's ability HERE in Denver considering the circumstances with the offensive line. When accounting for a bevy of injuries, and that not even Clady who is the least injured of the returning starters is 100% healthy yet, and that you have a rookie center, and a first year starter, it is, in my estimation, a bit unfair to judge the guy just yet.

Now I am not saying he is up to the task, and what is concerning is that IF Walton does have a tell and defenses are going to tee off on it, how come he hasn't seen it and corrected it? (The tell thing is speculation on my part but tennessee was getting off the ball way to easily and almost in perfect sync with the snap count. One guy, on a play here and there and that's good guessing. The entire defensive line for most of the game? The game is afoot dear Watson);

TheReverend
10-06-2010, 02:43 PM
What I will comment on this topic on is that it is too early to judge our Oline coach's ability HERE in Denver considering the circumstances with the offensive line. When accounting for a bevy of injuries, and that not even Clady who is the least injured of the returning starters is 100% healthy yet, and that you have a rookie center, and a first year starter, it is, in my estimation, a bit unfair to judge the guy just yet.

Now I am not saying he is up to the task, and what is concerning is that IF Walton does have a tell and defenses are going to tee off on it, how come he hasn't seen it and corrected it? (The tell thing is speculation on my part but tennessee was getting off the ball way to easily and almost in perfect sync with the snap count. One guy, on a play here and there and that's good guessing. The entire defensive line for most of the game? The game is afoot dear Watson);

I'll agree this could be a number of issues. Still, I'm concerned that he looks to be part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Rock Chalk
10-06-2010, 02:45 PM
I'll agree this could be a number of issues. Still, I'm concerned that he looks to be part of the problem and not part of the solution.

IF he is I am 100% certain McDaniels will upgrade the position with a better coach. But I also believe McDaniels will give him the benefit of the doubt considering the circumstances.

ghwk
10-06-2010, 04:13 PM
How can you go wrong with a name like Clancy Barone???

DenverBrit
10-06-2010, 05:12 PM
if he is i am 100% certain mcdaniels will upgrade the position with a better coach. But i also believe mcdaniels will give him the benefit of the doubt considering the circumstances.

+1

Drek
10-06-2010, 06:31 PM
Nice catch.

Very interesting. I just had assumed he was qualified for the job. Apparently I was way off!

And re: "coaching the Falcons OL". We all know it was Gibbs that season. And interesting that after Gibbs stopped coaching and became a consultant for the Falcons, Barone was immediately "demoted" to coaching the tight ends.

I feel even worse about this guy now, thanks for that.

He was an assistant OL coach with the Falcons, under Gibbs. Also under Jeff Jagodzinski, the official position coach who retained the same position in '05.

Barone in fact was apparently so impressive in just one season as an NFL assistant positional coach that the team felt completely comfortable with moving him to a full positional coach title of his own.

Of course that did follow up a collegiate career in which he was voted the 2002 D1A Offensive Line Coach of the Year by The National Offensive Line Coaches Association (i.e. a vote from his collective peers), while doing so he had a no name back at Houston place in the top 10 leading rushers for the year. And while coaching at Wyoming, that football stalwart, his offensive lines only gave up 35 sacks, in three seasons combined.

And yes, while at Wyoming and Houston he was both the OC and the OL coach.

When we see on tape the O line blatantly missing assignments its not time to point fingers at the coach. It starts with the players. Especially when 95% of the time our OL problems are the cause of a single player displaying catastrophic failure while the rest of the OL does their job. Then the next play its another OL failing while the guy who sucked last play does his job. The OL obviously knows their assignments for the most part because generally each player did his job. They just took turns being the guilty party on every play. With Daniels and Walton taking a disproportionately large share.

It only takes one defender in the backfield at the time of hand off to scuttle a run play.

Its Barone's job to coach out these mistakes and relay the necessary personnel changes needed, if he feels there are any, to McDaniels. But he gets a bit longer than a few weeks to iron them out when he's been adding a new offensive lineman on a near weekly basis to start the year.

cmhargrove
10-06-2010, 07:00 PM
To be fair there were MANY people that didn't think Dennison was very good at first either.

Not defending the guy or really commenting one way or another, just pointing out that you internet nitwits dont know ****.

So, you have removed yourself from the internet, or you are also a nitwit that doesn't know ****?

I get my deductive reasoning all mixed up, but it sounds like you just admitted you don't know **** (being a member of the internetz as well)...

enjolras
10-06-2010, 07:01 PM
How many snaps has this O-Line had together this season? They've essentially played one complete game together. With essentially zero preseason work, and Harris just coming back last week (and clearly not physically 100%)... I'm not ready to even panic at this point.

Maybe we should let season play out and see how the coaches do in terms of bringing the whole thing together?

baja
10-06-2010, 07:07 PM
It's ok, i'm over it. The topic is what is important.

My take is that Barone is a Tight Ends coach that wanted to advance his career. He may have earned the chance at a promotion, but I don't know if he should keep it.

I personally think we have the talent to be a much better rushing team. I think Barone is not the teacher that Dennison was.

Josh had a nice presser today and there was a question to the effect that Clady Kuper and Harris were all drafted as ZBS players and are they really suited for the power run game...

Here is the link;

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Wednesday-Press-Conferences-McDaniels--Orton/58ce94c8-1e54-4903-a6dc-93fcbc04fdc7#?id=41386723-709d-4eb6-930a-4bc454703d89

driver
10-06-2010, 07:25 PM
Maybe it's a combination of a new coach, two rooks three vets not 100%,1 of the rooks being the center calling assignments, and a couple of rbs 1 brand new here,1 coming of an injury, and so on,don't panic yet.:wave:

Man-Goblin
10-06-2010, 07:53 PM
Josh had a nice presser today and there was a question to the effect that Clady Kuper and Harris were all drafted as ZBS players and are they really suited for the power run game...

Here is the link;

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Wednesday-Press-Conferences-McDaniels--Orton/58ce94c8-1e54-4903-a6dc-93fcbc04fdc7#?id=41386723-709d-4eb6-930a-4bc454703d89

Sweet presser, bro. Love the McDaniels.

Anyways, if the dude studied under Gibbs, he's much better suited to teach zone than the man/power stuff they're running this year. Just sayin.

That being said I wanna see this line actually be able to play together for a few weeks before I make any judgements. Other than that they are the suck right now.

Florida_Bronco
10-06-2010, 08:08 PM
Its Barone's job to coach out these mistakes and relay the necessary personnel changes needed, if he feels there are any, to McDaniels. But he gets a bit longer than a few weeks to iron them out when he's been adding a new offensive lineman on a near weekly basis to start the year.

Not only that, but we have Bob Wylie (a pretty well respected OL coach himself) working with Barone. I find it pretty hard to believe that both of these guys are dropping the ball.

TheReverend
10-06-2010, 10:54 PM
He was an assistant OL coach with the Falcons, under Gibbs. Also under Jeff Jagodzinski, the official position coach who retained the same position in '05.

Barone in fact was apparently so impressive in just one season as an NFL assistant positional coach that the team felt completely comfortable with moving him to a full positional coach title of his own.

Of course that did follow up a collegiate career in which he was voted the 2002 D1A Offensive Line Coach of the Year by The National Offensive Line Coaches Association (i.e. a vote from his collective peers), while doing so he had a no name back at Houston place in the top 10 leading rushers for the year. And while coaching at Wyoming, that football stalwart, his offensive lines only gave up 35 sacks, in three seasons combined.

And yes, while at Wyoming and Houston he was both the OC and the OL coach.

When we see on tape the O line blatantly missing assignments its not time to point fingers at the coach. It starts with the players. Especially when 95% of the time our OL problems are the cause of a single player displaying catastrophic failure while the rest of the OL does their job. Then the next play its another OL failing while the guy who sucked last play does his job. The OL obviously knows their assignments for the most part because generally each player did his job. They just took turns being the guilty party on every play. With Daniels and Walton taking a disproportionately large share.

It only takes one defender in the backfield at the time of hand off to scuttle a run play.

Its Barone's job to coach out these mistakes and relay the necessary personnel changes needed, if he feels there are any, to McDaniels. But he gets a bit longer than a few weeks to iron them out when he's been adding a new offensive lineman on a near weekly basis to start the year.

Ah, well there's a stellar award I've never heard of from a powerhouse program like Houston going 5-7 that season. Must've been a mammoth accomplishment.

In fact, since I've never even really heard of the organization, I googled it just because I wanted to look into the history of the other esteemed award winners, but I'll be damned if it doesn't ONLY come up in references to Clancy Barone.

http://www.google.com/search?q=National+Offensive+Line+Coaches+Associati on&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&expIds=25657,25907,26805,26885&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=%22National+Offensive+Line+Coaches+Association%2 2&cp=1&pf=p&sclient=psy&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=daj&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=%22National+Offensive+Line+Coaches+Association% 22&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=9f2370386c77b788

Forgive the long link. If you can dig up a reference history of that award and how many coaches they give it to annually, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks for also linking his coaching experience at Texas State. That was a learning experience for me considering I wasn't aware they actually had a football team. Must've been one hell of a "promotion" for him, and well deserved with the successful 4-8 season they had after his arrival.

Not only that, but we have Bob Wylie (a pretty well respected OL coach himself) working with Barone. I find it pretty hard to believe that both of these guys are dropping the ball.

Um, what? The guy has only coached bottom feeder rushing attacks and poor pass protection his entire NFL career. He even spent the past few years in the CFL.

He has 10 years of NFL experience coaching the offensive line, and only ONCE did he crack the top half of rankings (his first year, 1992 in Tampa), and even then, just barely.

04- 22nd
03- 18th
02- Bottom Feeding 32nd
01- 17th
00- 21st
99- 26th
(Okay now he only has to break 15 since it's pre expansion teams!)
95- 19th
94- 22nd
93- 27th
92- 14th!!!!!!!!! Yay!

The Joker
10-06-2010, 11:06 PM
Rev + Bee + His Bonnet = Hilarity. :spit:

TheReverend
10-06-2010, 11:22 PM
Rev + Bee + His Bonnet = Hilarity. :spit:

Yeah, well we're on pace for 44 sacks this season along with potentially setting records in rushing futility and I certainly don't believe Josh is responsible.

Granted, there have been some hard luck with injuries (and the lack of depth certainly does fall on Josh) and hopefully the OL stays healthy moving forward and can gel into an effective unit, but FFS, Kuper played hurt a large chunk of last season and we were starting Tyler F'ing Polumbus for quite some time and things never approached looking this bad.

Looking at the resumes of our OL coaches isn't inspiring much confidence and I don't like the idea that our Headcoach is now going to have to take time away from the extremely successful work he's been doing with Kyle to put an emphasis on area that should need no micromanagement.

Popps
10-06-2010, 11:29 PM
Rev + Bee + His Bonnet = Hilarity. :spit:

:spit:

fontaine
10-07-2010, 03:19 AM
Yeah, well we're on pace for 44 sacks this season along with potentially setting records in rushing futility and I certainly don't believe Josh is responsible.

Granted, there have been some hard luck with injuries (and the lack of depth certainly does fall on Josh) and hopefully the OL stays healthy moving forward and can gel into an effective unit, but FFS, Kuper played hurt a large chunk of last season and we were starting Tyler F'ing Polumbus for quite some time and things never approached looking this bad.

Looking at the resumes of our OL coaches isn't inspiring much confidence and I don't like the idea that our Headcoach is now going to have to take time away from the extremely successful work he's been doing with Kyle to put an emphasis on area that should need no micromanagement.

I'm not calling you out but I never understood why Tyler Polumbus got such a hard time here.

He was what a 6th/7th round pick that did okay filling in his 2nd year? Yes he struggled against good pass rushers (who doesn't) because he didn't have great knee bend and smooth feet but he did a far better job than some of our players in the OL now. I mean what did people expect from a low draft pick? Ogden? Pace?

He's in Seattle filling in very well at left tackle and it's because as a late round pick all he needed was a couple of years of experience to get the most out of his ability. That's a player we SHOULD have kept instead of throwing two rookies and Stanley Daniels along the OL and hoping their collective lack of experience (0 combined starts) would magically work out.

The Joker
10-07-2010, 03:39 AM
Yeah, well we're on pace for 44 sacks this season along with potentially setting records in rushing futility and I certainly don't believe Josh is responsible.

Granted, there have been some hard luck with injuries (and the lack of depth certainly does fall on Josh) and hopefully the OL stays healthy moving forward and can gel into an effective unit, but FFS, Kuper played hurt a large chunk of last season and we were starting Tyler F'ing Polumbus for quite some time and things never approached looking this bad.

Looking at the resumes of our OL coaches isn't inspiring much confidence and I don't like the idea that our Headcoach is now going to have to take time away from the extremely successful work he's been doing with Kyle to put an emphasis on area that should need no micromanagement.

Wasn't having a go at you at all, I agree with pretty much everything you're saying, you just have an amusing style of writing.

driver
10-07-2010, 04:16 AM
Yeah, well we're on pace for 44 sacks this season along with potentially setting records in rushing futility and I certainly don't believe Josh is responsible.

Granted, there have been some hard luck with injuries (and the lack of depth certainly does fall on Josh) and hopefully the OL stays healthy moving forward and can gel into an effective unit, but FFS, Kuper played hurt a large chunk of last season and we were starting Tyler F'ing Polumbus for quite some time and things never approached looking this bad.

Looking at the resumes of our OL coaches isn't inspiring much confidence and I don't like the idea that our Headcoach is now going to have to take time away from the extremely successful work he's been doing with Kyle to put an emphasis on area that should need no micromanagement.

AGREE!! except for what you say about Polumbus, I thought he did pretty well
he's certainly better than Hochsteer, this guy is nothing but McD's own personal EGO booster and a complete waste of Oxygen. Your observation about micro managing bothers me a lot, I've seen people who could do it well, but a lot more who couldn't.

Rock Chalk
10-07-2010, 04:32 AM
So, you have removed yourself from the internet, or you are also a nitwit that doesn't know ****?

I get my deductive reasoning all mixed up, but it sounds like you just admitted you don't know **** (being a member of the internetz as well)...

You certainly are not a Sherlock as your reasoning skills are vastly inferior.

I was speaking to the general internetz audience of course.

Drek
10-07-2010, 04:34 AM
Ah, well there's a stellar award I've never heard of from a powerhouse program like Houston going 5-7 that season. Must've been a mammoth accomplishment.

In fact, since I've never even really heard of the organization, I googled it just because I wanted to look into the history of the other esteemed award winners, but I'll be damned if it doesn't ONLY come up in references to Clancy Barone.

Forgive the long link. If you can dig up a reference history of that award and how many coaches they give it to annually, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks for also linking his coaching experience at Texas State. That was a learning experience for me considering I wasn't aware they actually had a football team. Must've been one hell of a "promotion" for him, and well deserved with the successful 4-8 season they had after his arrival.


So you're saying the personnel departments of three NFL front offices (Falcons, Chargers, and Broncos) are being duped by some nothing award that they all put on his profile page?

I'm not a pro coach. I'm not really in a position to vet an award. Three NFL teams thought it was noteworthy enough to mention on his profile, they happen to be in that business.

Also, while at Texas State he did have a top 10 offense. He wasn't the HC so what does the actual record matter?

At two D1A schools he got results with limited talent (not an assistant's job to bring in talent) pulling double duty as an OC and OL coach. He then assisted with the Falcons running game who had a great year after which he proceeded to work with some very good TEs, who all had great years with him.

There isn't much to nitpick his credentials on. He's got to get better play out of the OL for sure, but early problems aren't on a coach, they're on the players. If he can't fix it within the next few weeks then it becomes a coaching problem.

fontaine
10-07-2010, 05:38 AM
There isn't much to nitpick his credentials on. He's got to get better play out of the OL for sure, but early problems aren't on a coach, they're on the players. If he can't fix it within the next few weeks then it becomes a coaching problem.

I agree. I doubt that some new guy has enough pull to make personnel decisions with Josh so he's got to work with what he's got and along the interior with Daniels/Walton that's not a whole lot given their inexperience.

Hopefully as Harris/Clady/Kuper get fully healthy, they'll make enough of a difference to get the run game working because right now, it's not.

Mediator12
10-07-2010, 05:56 AM
So you're saying the personnel departments of three NFL front offices (Falcons, Chargers, and Broncos) are being duped by some nothing award that they all put on his profile page?

I'm not a pro coach. I'm not really in a position to vet an award. Three NFL teams thought it was noteworthy enough to mention on his profile, they happen to be in that business.

Also, while at Texas State he did have a top 10 offense. He wasn't the HC so what does the actual record matter?

At two D1A schools he got results with limited talent (not an assistant's job to bring in talent) pulling double duty as an OC and OL coach. He then assisted with the Falcons running game who had a great year after which he proceeded to work with some very good TEs, who all had great years with him.

There isn't much to nitpick his credentials on. He's got to get better play out of the OL for sure, but early problems aren't on a coach, they're on the players. If he can't fix it within the next few weeks then it becomes a coaching problem.

1. The personnel people have ZERO influence on what goes on the coaches bio. That is the media relations dept, 90% of which have no idea what coaches do, let alone what is noteworthy in a career. You ever read those things, they are simply terrible.

2. The great running years in ATL are totally skewed by the Mick Vick factor. Take out the 800 QB rushing yards, the inability to pass for 3000 yards, and that was why they were the top rushing attack for so many years. They were barely top 10 in RB avg per carry and a lot of that is based on playing Vick to RUN.

3. Never use college awards to tout pro coaches. It is not the same skillset, and coaching pro players is very different than coaching college kids. You get away with more in college than you can in the Pros. Look at the Nick Saban's and Steve Spurrier's of the world, unbelievable college coaches, miserable pro Coaches.

4. Coaching is an issue with all the players in limbo on the OL. In fact, coaching is more important right now than later with all the chemistry intact and everyone healthy. I could coach that! Right now, is when the position coaches skill comes into play. That is unless Mike Martz is your OC (Still feel sorry for Mike Tice, well not really!) and you keep calling seven step drops into pressure ;D That is not the fault of the OL coach, that's a playcalling issue.

What is the fault of the OL coach is players not running plays the way they are called. That is what I would question. However, the TEN tape is SOO BAD it is almost impossible to see if players are able to block G-power runs since they are all in the backfield.

One thing is for sure, there was maybe 1 play that was blocked as it was called all game. That is not acceptable for any coach. It does not matter WHO is out there, it is their job to get people to play the way the play is called. One out of 20 is a poor job, and they were unable to make any adjustments that worked throughout the game. No way to spin that, that is not good coaching.

fontaine
10-07-2010, 06:11 AM
One thing is for sure, there was maybe 1 play that was blocked as it was called all game. That is not acceptable for any coach. It does not matter WHO is out there, it is their job to get people to play the way the play is called. One out of 20 is a poor job, and they were unable to make any adjustments that worked throughout the game. No way to spin that, that is not good coaching.

Thanks. I've been saying this since week 1. Since then the run game has gotten worse with more missed blocks, interior OL struggling resulting in defenders increasingly attacking our backfield.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2933190&postcount=9

Drek
10-07-2010, 04:35 PM
One thing is for sure, there was maybe 1 play that was blocked as it was called all game. That is not acceptable for any coach. It does not matter WHO is out there, it is their job to get people to play the way the play is called. One out of 20 is a poor job, and they were unable to make any adjustments that worked throughout the game. No way to spin that, that is not good coaching.

So you don't think its painfully early to point the finger at coaching and paint the OL coaches as being under-qualified for their jobs when working with an OL that didn't get any time together in pre-season along with starting a rookie center and first year starting LG?

Sorry, the guy did some real good work with OLs for years in college. Just because he's gotten a late start as an NFL coach in particular and is working with what has been a patchwork OL I don't think it justifies pointing the finger at him.

The players haven't been doing their jobs. Until they do we can't gauge the quality of Barone's coaching. If he can't get them doing their jobs in a few weeks then it lands on him.

TheReverend
10-07-2010, 04:52 PM
So you don't think its painfully early to point the finger at coaching and paint the OL coaches as being under-qualified for their jobs when working with an OL that didn't get any time together in pre-season along with starting a rookie center and first year starting LG?

This is a gross exaggeration. We've had significant injuries along our OL quite a few times and haven't been trending towards setting franchise records in OL futility before. And, to be quite frank, we have some pretty strong ****ing talent in that lineup as is. Rookies are rookies, but it's absolutely the coaching staff's responsibility to have these guys prepared and in synch at at least an acceptable level.

Sorry, the guy did some real good work with OLs for years in college. Just because he's gotten a late start as an NFL coach in particular and is working with what has been a patchwork OL I don't think it justifies pointing the finger at him.

:rofl:

And what college programs were these again? And why exactly do you think he got such a late start in the NFL? Because he was lighting the NCAA on fire with his innovation and body of work?

The players haven't been doing their jobs. Until they do we can't gauge the quality of Barone's coaching. If he can't get them doing their jobs in a few weeks then it lands on him.

Okay. So his players haven't been doing their jobs, but it's not a reflection on the quality of his work? Strong logic there.

fontaine
10-08-2010, 02:57 AM
This is a gross exaggeration. We've had significant injuries along our OL quite a few times and haven't been trending towards setting franchise records in OL futility before. And, to be quite frank, we have some pretty strong ****ing talent in that lineup as is. Rookies are rookies, but it's absolutely the coaching staff's responsibility to have these guys prepared and in synch at at least an acceptable level.


Absolutely. We're not the only team that has injury issues or rookies starting.

We are though, the ONLY team that's averaging less than 3 yards a carry (2.2 yard per carry) ranking us dead last in the NFL.

To put that into context:

IN THE PAST 8 YEARS NO TEAM HAS EVER FINISHED THE SEASON AVERAGING LESS THAN 3 YARDS PER CARRY.

We're on pace, to do just that. The running game failure is across the board from the OL, RBs and yes the coaching also.

Even an expansion team like Houston in their first year with ZERO continuity and chance to gel along the OL with no identity on offense, a rookie QB managed to finished the season averaging a full yard MORE than we are right now.

The Joker
10-08-2010, 03:13 AM
What's sad is that I think the running game is going to get worse before it gets better, especially with Moreno still looking like he's not ready to suit up.

The Jets are going to really put a hurting on our rushing attack, that **** could get very, very ugly.

The Ravens will be a little easier to run it against, but again expect our offense to go only as far as Orton takes them.

fontaine
10-08-2010, 03:43 AM
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2010/word-muth-1

Washington is averaging double our yards per carry (4.3).

I guess the excuse train of injuries/lack of continuity doesn't stop in Washington even though they've shuffled the OL, lost multiple players to injuries. The only OL starting all four games is their Center.

All with a new coaching staff and running style implemented this offseason with a worn down Portis and journeyman like Torain.

I guess someone should go tell Mike that his rushing offense should suck balls like ours because they've had a few injuries.

fontaine
10-08-2010, 03:52 AM
And in case anyone is still confused THIS is how you run the football with an injured OL and no name RB, without great talent but with attention to detail and committment that starts from the coaching down:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/washington-redskins/09000d5d81b0b5b6/RB-Torain-12-yd-run-TD

If the Redskins can get THAT done with lesser talent and multiple injuries, then hell yes, the problem is also with our freakin' coaching.

cmhargrove
10-08-2010, 06:16 AM
You certainly are not a Sherlock as your reasoning skills are vastly inferior.

I was speaking to the general internetz audience of course.

Damn it! I was looking forward to the pipe and funny hat...

Mediator12
10-08-2010, 03:36 PM
So you don't think its painfully early to point the finger at coaching and paint the OL coaches as being under-qualified for their jobs when working with an OL that didn't get any time together in pre-season along with starting a rookie center and first year starting LG?

Sorry, the guy did some real good work with OLs for years in college. Just because he's gotten a late start as an NFL coach in particular and is working with what has been a patchwork OL I don't think it justifies pointing the finger at him.

The players haven't been doing their jobs. Until they do we can't gauge the quality of Barone's coaching. If he can't get them doing their jobs in a few weeks then it lands on him.

No it is not early and I explained why. This is when coaches earn their money. Not when everything is working like clockwork, its when it's not working at all. Can you turn it around without an offseason? Can you make it work next week, despite the challenges. Can you hide your weaknesses and get teams to attack your strengths instead? If they can not do it NOW, before teams break down the film, they will never get it fixed for the rest of the year.

The chemistry on the OL is poor, but its not even close to consistent either. That responsibility falls on the coach, to get whoever is in the game to execute the play as called. If they can not get the whole unit together it is a coaching problem. If it were just certain players in specific situations, then that's a player problem. This is an all encompassing problem and it starts with the running game and even worse the pass protection.

mkporter
10-10-2010, 03:18 PM
No it is not early and I explained why. This is when coaches earn their money. Not when everything is working like clockwork, its when it's not working at all. Can you turn it around without an offseason? Can you make it work next week, despite the challenges. Can you hide your weaknesses and get teams to attack your strengths instead? If they can not do it NOW, before teams break down the film, they will never get it fixed for the rest of the year.

The chemistry on the OL is poor, but its not even close to consistent either. That responsibility falls on the coach, to get whoever is in the game to execute the play as called. If they can not get the whole unit together it is a coaching problem. If it were just certain players in specific situations, then that's a player problem. This is an all encompassing problem and it starts with the running game and even worse the pass protection.


Is it too late to get on the fire Barone bandwagon? The o-line looks lost out there. Way too many penalties and missed assignments. They'd look even worse if Kyle wasn't so proficient at getting rid of the ball.

Hulamau
10-11-2010, 01:35 AM
He was an assistant OL coach with the Falcons, under Gibbs. Also under Jeff Jagodzinski, the official position coach who retained the same position in '05.

Barone in fact was apparently so impressive in just one season as an NFL assistant positional coach that the team felt completely comfortable with moving him to a full positional coach title of his own.

Of course that did follow up a collegiate career in which he was voted the 2002 D1A Offensive Line Coach of the Year by The National Offensive Line Coaches Association (i.e. a vote from his collective peers), while doing so he had a no name back at Houston place in the top 10 leading rushers for the year. And while coaching at Wyoming, that football stalwart, his offensive lines only gave up 35 sacks, in three seasons combined.

And yes, while at Wyoming and Houston he was both the OC and the OL coach.

When we see on tape the O line blatantly missing assignments its not time to point fingers at the coach. It starts with the players. Especially when 95% of the time our OL problems are the cause of a single player displaying catastrophic failure while the rest of the OL does their job. Then the next play its another OL failing while the guy who sucked last play does his job. The OL obviously knows their assignments for the most part because generally each player did his job. They just took turns being the guilty party on every play. With Daniels and Walton taking a disproportionately large share.

It only takes one defender in the backfield at the time of hand off to scuttle a run play.

Its Barone's job to coach out these mistakes and relay the necessary personnel changes needed, if he feels there are any, to McDaniels. But he gets a bit longer than a few weeks to iron them out when he's been adding a new offensive lineman on a near weekly basis to start the year.

Nice run down Drek,

The last part is a key here too, every week we've had a different cast of characters on the O line by one guy at least. the rookies and former scrubs and bookend tackles still nursing injuries. All the critical timing isn't there yet and Walton is forced to earn his advanced degree in Life in the trenches of the NFL in light-speed time .

The last two weeks Daniels laid an egg and wasn't even active this week as a result.