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epicSocialism4tw
05-08-2011, 05:27 PM
Barkley has been picking against the Lakers for the past couple years. I never really understood why. He was bound to be right at some point.

He nailed the reason why too.

He said that Dirk was the best player in the series, that the Lakers didnt have an answer for him, and that the Mavs bench was better.

Pretty good call. Impressive given that he's the only guy who went out on that limb.

Jason in LA
05-08-2011, 06:11 PM
Barkley always gives valid reasons for picking against Kobe and the Lakers, and he always is proven wrong. For the first time he was right. It was bound to happen at some point.

enjolras
05-08-2011, 06:18 PM
Why would anyone hate Phil Jackson? All he does is win.

enjolras
05-08-2011, 06:20 PM
I will say I thought Bynum handled the post-game interview well. He at least seemed rightfully embarrassed, although that shouldn't change the massive suspension he should be looking forward to (which might make a Dwight Howard trade more difficult).

Boobs McGee
05-08-2011, 06:23 PM
****in a, didn't get to see the game, but don't think I'll be watching the DVR'd version. FAIL. Please jerry, go get us an outside shooter!!

Thanks for the memories Phil, best coach ever! Wish we coulda brought one more piece of hardware back, but all good things must come to an end.

Rulon, good luck to your team. They straight bitch bounced us. Drama, you're still the worst poster on here, good luck trying to irritate people with lame ass unoriginal unfunny nick names and inconsistent comparisons stemming from a general unwillingness to admit when you're wrong.

Bulls/Grizz from here on out!

bombay
05-08-2011, 06:27 PM
****in a, didn't get to see the game, but don't think I'll be watching the DVR'd version. FAIL. Please jerry, go get us an outside shooter!!

Thanks for the memories Phil, best coach ever! Wish we coulda brought one more piece of hardware back, but all good things must come to an end.

Rulon, good luck to your team. They straight b**** bounced us. Drama, you're still the worst poster on here, good luck trying to irritate people with lame ass unoriginal unfunny nick names and inconsistent comparisons stemming from a general unwillingness to admit when you're wrong.

Bulls/Grizz from here on out!


Rep. Right on the money, right down the line.

bombay
05-08-2011, 07:07 PM
Rose is amazing. Nobody I can remember penetrates like he does, and now the 3 is part of his game.

OrangeSe7en
05-08-2011, 07:20 PM
Rose is amazing. Nobody I can remember penetrates like he does, and now the 3 is part of his game.

Unless something crazy happens, the Bulls got this. The Bulls are shooting 22% from three while the Hawks are shooting 67% from three and the Bulls are only down by one.

If this game follows true to a lot of Bulls games, the Hawks will score 30 something points in the second half and the Bulls will pull away.

Not only that but Horford has 3 fould, and Pachulia and Collins both have 2 fouls. If Im Rose and Deng, Im going at the basket.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-08-2011, 07:22 PM
My ears are stil ringing. That building was rocking like Ive never seen. Told a buddy of mine that you can't even replicate that shooting on a video game. I'm so gay for this team right now. They're busting their asses out there.

OrangeSe7en
05-08-2011, 07:25 PM
My ears are stil ringing. That building was rocking like Ive never seen. Told a buddy of mine that you can't even replicate that shooting on a video game. I'm so gay for this team right now. They're busting their asses out there.

The thing that sucks is 3 point shooting comes and goes. Its a good thing Dallas has Dirk to get them points anywhere on the floor.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-08-2011, 07:36 PM
The thing that sucks is 3 point shooting comes and goes. Its a good thing Dallas has Dirk to get them points anywhere on the floor.

They were just taking what was given to them. The Lakers had no interest in rotating or closing out. That's fine. The Mavs employ 3 of the best of all-time. If it wasn't working, then it was going to be the Dirk Show again. I think the defense deserves some love, too. Theyre scrambling like mad on most every possession.

OrangeSe7en
05-08-2011, 07:38 PM
They were just taking what was given to them. The Lakers had no interest in rotating or closing out. That's fine. The Mavs employ 3 of the best of all-time. If it wasn't working, then it was going to be the Dirk Show again. I think the defense deserves some love, too. Theyre scrambling like mad on most every possession.

Im just saying the three point shot is a fickle beast. The Magic made it to the finals 2 years ago because of it but also lost in the finals because of it. The Mavs do have some good 3 point shooters though.

bombay
05-08-2011, 07:49 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/3-points/sort/threePointFieldGoalPct/seasontype/2

Interesting that of those three best of all time three point shooters, only two are in the top 40 in the league this season. That's Dirk at 40, and Peja at 12, but he didn't shoot very many while playing for three different teams.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-08-2011, 07:58 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/3-points/sort/threePointFieldGoalPct/seasontype/2

Interesting that of those three best of all time three point shooters, only two are in the top 40 in the league this season. That's Dirk at 40, and Peja at 12, but he didn't shoot very many while playing for three different teams.

Yeah, Peja missed a lot of games and Dirk, oddly enough, didn't use the 3 as much this season.

OrangeSe7en
05-08-2011, 08:35 PM
Unless something crazy happens, the Bulls got this. The Bulls are shooting 22% from three while the Hawks are shooting 67% from three and the Bulls are only down by one.

If this game follows true to a lot of Bulls games, the Hawks will score 30 something points in the second half and the Bulls will pull away.

Not only that but Horford has 3 fould, and Pachulia and Collins both have 2 fouls. If Im Rose and Deng, Im going at the basket.

Well, I should have realized the Crawfords and Salavtore were doing this game. Blech!

OrangeSe7en
05-08-2011, 08:42 PM
David Stern should be embarrassed with this game. An inadvertant whistle? Really? Something stinks about this.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-08-2011, 08:50 PM
12/32 shooting? Thats a lot of shots. Holy balls.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-08-2011, 09:36 PM
Fraud of an MVP

Dirk > Rose

epicSocialism4tw
05-08-2011, 09:41 PM
****in a, didn't get to see the game, but don't think I'll be watching the DVR'd version. FAIL. Please jerry, go get us an outside shooter!!

Thanks for the memories Phil, best coach ever! Wish we coulda brought one more piece of hardware back, but all good things must come to an end.

Rulon, good luck to your team. They straight b**** bounced us. Drama, you're still the worst poster on here, good luck trying to irritate people with lame ass unoriginal unfunny nick names and inconsistent comparisons stemming from a general unwillingness to admit when you're wrong.

Bulls/Grizz from here on out!

Aw. So sad.

Did you want me to say that I was wrong when I said that Pau wasnt in the same conversation with Dirk and you kept saying the opposite over and over and over again? I went easy on you. It could have just as easily been argued that Bryant isn't on Dirk's level.

Maybe its you who cant handle being wrong. On that note, it was fun watching Dirk dispatch your team. It was especially fun, knowing the conversation we had about Dirk and Gasol on this thread. :peace:

But keep munching those sour grapes. They'll taste good eventually. Ha!

epicSocialism4tw
05-08-2011, 10:04 PM
Oh, by the way Boobs...

Dirk is now 8-0 in the playoffs against Gasol.

Boobs McGee
05-08-2011, 10:06 PM
Lol clown. I admitted I was wrong about gasol...unlike you when my team chokes I don't go jumping off the bandwagon like explosives were just found under the drivers seat, and promptly disappear after a meltdown of nuclear proportions.

Good ol dramallama, wouldn't expect anything less than a deflective response. Just remember, you're not as smart as everyone says you think you are.

Boobs McGee
05-08-2011, 10:08 PM
and drama, just for the record, they're going to choke. again.

epicSocialism4tw
05-08-2011, 10:10 PM
Lol clown. I admitted I was wrong about gasol...unlike you when my team chokes I don't go jumping off the bandwagon like explosives were just found under the drivers seat, and promptly disappear after a meltdown of nuclear proportions.

Good ol dramallama, wouldn't expect anything less than a deflective response. Just remember, you're not as smart as everyone says you think you are.

Its okay man. We all make mistakes. Your mistake: believing the hype and not thinking for yourself.

But in the end, all is right in the world. The good guys won.

epicSocialism4tw
05-08-2011, 10:12 PM
and drama, just for the record, they're going to choke. again.

Choke? Ha!

How can they choke?

Few people picked them to get past the first round.

Then NOBODY (save Charles Barkley) picked them to dispatch the Lakers. Literally nobody picked the Mavs to obliterate the Lakers and sweep the dynasty out of the playoffs like they were a used up D-league team.

The Mavs are playing on house money. They just waxed a team with twice the talent that they have.

Its all golden from here, holmes.

RhymesayersDU
05-08-2011, 10:14 PM
So in the other game that happened today, I'm a little shocked the Hawks are in this series. I was of the opinion that the Hawks weren't all that great (neither were the Magic before them) and that the Bulls would steamroll them in 4 or 5 games.

This second round is shaping up to be very good.

epicSocialism4tw
05-08-2011, 10:19 PM
So in the other game that happened today, I'm a little shocked the Hawks are in this series. I was of the opinion that the Hawks weren't all that great (neither were the Magic before them) and that the Bulls would steamroll them in 4 or 5 games.

This second round is shaping up to be very good.

Don't sleep on Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford. Their coach is very good as well.

I still believe that had the 7-seconds-or-less Suns not gotten rid of Joe Johnson, that they would have won at least one championship if not several. The Suns had a lineup of these players in their primes: Nash, Richardson, Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, Amare Stoudemire.

Johnson is actually an excellent defensive player, as is Shawn Marion.

RhymesayersDU
05-08-2011, 10:30 PM
Don't sleep on Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford. Their coach is very good as well.

I still believe that had the 7-seconds-or-less Suns not gotten rid of Joe Johnson, that they would have won at least one championship if not several. The Suns had a lineup of these players in their primes: Nash, Richardson, Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, Amare Stoudemire.

Johnson is actually an excellent defensive player, as is Shawn Marion.

The Suns are easily the best team that never was. Their owner's cheapness has not gone unnoticed. They let JJ go, they sold numerous draft picks, etc. I believe they sold two draft picks of note for cash that turned into Luol Deng and Andre Igoudala. I mean, you add those guys to the teams that won 60+ games twice, and watch out.

Although they never had Richardson in his prime, but your point is valid.

epicSocialism4tw
05-08-2011, 10:42 PM
The Suns are easily the best team that never was. Their owner's cheapness has not gone unnoticed. They let JJ go, they sold numerous draft picks, etc. I believe they sold two draft picks of note for cash that turned into Luol Deng and Andre Igoudala. I mean, you add those guys to the teams that won 60+ games twice, and watch out.

Although they never had Richardson in his prime, but your point is valid.

It was Quentin not Jason. Q was killer on the Suns.

It is pretty crazy that they gave Deng and Iguodala away for nothing, then they shipped Johnson down the road. Those are two more supremely athletic players that would have flourished with Nash. They'd probably still be one of the best teams in the league if they didnt run everyone off.

Kaylore
05-08-2011, 11:35 PM
I've been doing stuff all weekend. But I had to drop in and say:

Ha ha! Lakers got swept and suck!

Die!

http://backcourtbetty.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Lakers-Suck.jpg

Boobs McGee
05-08-2011, 11:47 PM
Its okay man. We all make mistakes. Your mistake: believing the hype and not thinking for yourself.

But in the end, all is right in the world. The good guys won.

L. O. L.

You just keep on makin my points for me there chancho. The best part is, I and everyone else on this board KNOW what you are, but in your little delusional world, these retorts somehow ease your mind. I dunno...maybe take a break? Take a step back? Listen to yourself sometimes? A little perspective and some personal criticism is tough for a narcissist. So, best of luck.

24champ
05-08-2011, 11:50 PM
Thanks for the memories Phil, best coach ever! Wish we coulda brought one more piece of hardware back, but all good things must come to an end.


Boobs, we'll be back. We've always have been. We'll get a new coaching staff (I don't see it being Shaw and the same coaching staff), and maybe acquire a new player...


http://i.imgur.com/6J6Md.jpg

enjolras
05-08-2011, 11:58 PM
Boobs, we'll be back. We've always have been. We'll get a new coaching staff (I don't see it being Shaw and the same coaching staff), and maybe acquire a new player...

Hopefully the NBA grows a clue and puts something in place to keep this sort of thing from happening.

epicSocialism4tw
05-09-2011, 12:23 AM
L. O. L.

You just keep on makin my points for me there chancho. The best part is, I and everyone else on this board KNOW what you are, but in your little delusional world, these retorts somehow ease your mind. I dunno...maybe take a break? Take a step back? Listen to yourself sometimes? A little perspective and some personal criticism is tough for a narcissist. So, best of luck.

Ha!

Keep on rollin' chief.

You never were wrong at all. :welcome:

Boobs McGee
05-09-2011, 12:30 AM
Boobs, we'll be back. We've always have been. We'll get a new coaching staff (I don't see it being Shaw and the same coaching staff), and maybe acquire a new player...


http://i.imgur.com/6J6Md.jpg

You dont think it'll be shaw? I just assumed he would be the natural choice seeing as he knows how to coach the triangle. Are you thinkin they're going to scrap it and go a different direction?

ZONA
05-09-2011, 12:49 AM
Don't sleep on Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford. Their coach is very good as well.

I still believe that had the 7-seconds-or-less Suns not gotten rid of Joe Johnson, that they would have won at least one championship if not several. The Suns had a lineup of these players in their primes: Nash, Richardson, Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, Amare Stoudemire.

Johnson is actually an excellent defensive player, as is Shawn Marion.

True but JJ didn't want to play with Amare and Nash any longer. He kept saying he didn't like being the 3rd option and he wanted to be the ball handler and the guy starting the plays. Nash was just coming off back to back MVP's so you knew the Suns were not going to move him, and they were not going to move Amare so that meant JJ had to go. It's a tough time right now for them. Nash is at the end of his road so to speak and they lost Amare so they're in dire need of a star player. They have some solid role players in Frye, Dudley and the Nose but they really need that superstar type of player if they want to get back in the hunt.

24champ
05-09-2011, 01:28 AM
You dont think it'll be shaw? I just assumed he would be the natural choice seeing as he knows how to coach the triangle. Are you thinkin they're going to scrap it and go a different direction?

I don't think Shaw is a shoe in as the next HC.

I know the Lakers have been preparing for Phil Jackson leaving, so they have had time to put together a list. It's all up to Jerry Buss. He's the one that determines the direction this team is going in.

RhymesayersDU
05-09-2011, 07:11 AM
Boobs, we'll be back. We've always have been. We'll get a new coaching staff (I don't see it being Shaw and the same coaching staff), and maybe acquire a new player...


http://i.imgur.com/6J6Md.jpg

Can I ask a legitimate question:

Why would the Lakers want Dwight? Is the guy talented? Yes. But the Lakers already have two bigs in Gasol and Bynum. You guys need Kobe's replacement. Simply getting Dwight will make you guys Orlando West IMO.

Finding the elite perimeter player will be the challenge. Dwight Howard would be nice, but I don't see him as the answer.

Requiem
05-09-2011, 08:23 AM
The Lakers wish they could get Howard.

Chris
05-09-2011, 08:31 AM
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/41814_2222448109_512_n.jpg

Missouribronc
05-09-2011, 08:33 AM
Can I ask a legitimate question:

Why would the Lakers want Dwight? Is the guy talented? Yes. But the Lakers already have two bigs in Gasol and Bynum. You guys need Kobe's replacement. Simply getting Dwight will make you guys Orlando West IMO.

Finding the elite perimeter player will be the challenge. Dwight Howard would be nice, but I don't see him as the answer.

Sign and trade..

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Edit: Sorry, that didn't directly go to the trade I had...Bynum and Fisher for Howard in a sign and trade over the off-season.

Even if Howard signs a higher-dollar contract than that, the Lakers still have peripheral pieces to move other than Fisher, like Luke Walton.

Orlando isn't young, other than Nelson and Howard, so I could see them blowing it up, and taking that trade with a No. 1 attached to it.

Requiem
05-09-2011, 08:35 AM
So, who are the Lakers going to give the Magic who isn't complete ****?

Gasol doesn't make us a winner and neither does Bynum.

Any other good players?

No, not really. Next.

Missouribronc
05-09-2011, 08:36 AM
So, who are the Lakers going to give the Magic who isn't complete ****?

Gasol doesn't make us a winner and neither does Bynum.

Any other good players?

No, not really. Next.

Like I said, the Magic aren't young, and I could see them blowing it completely up this season if Howard is intent on leaving, so a sign and trade (getting something for him) wouldn't be a bad deal for the Magic, even if it is a No. 1, Bynum and an expiring contract.

Requiem
05-09-2011, 08:37 AM
****, that just sounds awful.

RhymesayersDU
05-09-2011, 09:04 AM
Sign and trade..

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Edit: Sorry, that didn't directly go to the trade I had...Bynum and Fisher for Howard in a sign and trade over the off-season.

Even if Howard signs a higher-dollar contract than that, the Lakers still have peripheral pieces to move other than Fisher, like Luke Walton.

Orlando isn't young, other than Nelson and Howard, so I could see them blowing it up, and taking that trade with a No. 1 attached to it.

Unsure if you meant to reply to me, because I don't doubt the Lakers could pull off the move, I still wonder why they'd want to. I like Dwight a lot, and maybe with him they could make a last push over the next 2 seasons, but they need to focus on getting Kobe's successor. When he retires, Dwight won't carry them. I'd stick with Bynum and Gasol and focus on finding a great perimeter player.

Requiem
05-09-2011, 09:19 AM
I'm not too privy to the on-goings in the NBA anymore, but wouldn't you just assume it would be easier for the Lakers to get a perimeter player to replace Kobe, by virtue of his time ending there (whenever) than it would be to acquire one of the best players in basketball, who has additional size that creates match-ups for opponents.

If a sign and trade happens, Bynum is likely on his way to Orlando. I wouldn't figure Gasol to be in the deal. Let's just say neither of them are in the trade, the Lakers could figuratively have Bynum, Howard and Gasol on the floor all at once, with Kobe still in the reigns. That'd just be ridiculous.

That size would be unbeatable, and I do think those players are versatile enough to be flexible with match-ups and shared court time.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-09-2011, 09:53 AM
Why would the Magic want Derek Fisher? This isn't Fantasyland.

Missouribronc
05-09-2011, 09:54 AM
Unsure if you meant to reply to me, because I don't doubt the Lakers could pull off the move, I still wonder why they'd want to. I like Dwight a lot, and maybe with him they could make a last push over the next 2 seasons, but they need to focus on getting Kobe's successor. When he retires, Dwight won't carry them. I'd stick with Bynum and Gasol and focus on finding a great perimeter player.

Kobe isn't going anywhere for a while, at least five years. He may not be as productive, and the offense might change if Jackson really does retire, so I would think the Lakers need to supplement his play, rather than try to find someone to replace him.

Howard is an upgrade over Bynum, especially with injury considerations. Would that trade actually go down...probably not, but I think it would be beneficial to the Lakers if they don't want to rebuild, but rather reload, which is usually the Laker mindset.

I would be looking for a younger big man, whether it be at the 4, or possibly trading Bynum and replacing him, although, he is still only going to be 24 next season. He still hasn't played more than 65 games in the last four years, and played in all 82 games just one season, when he was 19.

Then you look at point guard. If Kobe becomes more of a spot-up shooter than the focus of the triangle, then a solid point-guard would be a need. Because I'm close to the situation, I could see Denver sending Felton to L.A.

And maybe more of a scorer at the 3, rather than Artest, but you can't really argue Artest's defensive additions to that team.

In the short term, I think they need an energy scorer off the bench, actually. Fisher and Odom just don't seem like that type of energy player. Odom is a pretty good player (people haven't liked who I've compared him too in the past, but he's been a very good NBA player). And Fisher is just more of a liability, especially defensively.

I think they thought they were getting that player when they acquired Barnes, but that didn't pan out.

Missouribronc
05-09-2011, 09:56 AM
Why would the Magic want Derek Fisher? This isn't Fantasyland.

He's about as close to an expiring contract as the Lakers could offer a team. It's not about Fisher, it's about the contract.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-09-2011, 09:56 AM
Jim, there's a thing called spacing. You can't just put 3 big guys on the floor at the same time. You saw what happened in the Mavs series where they forced the defense to rotate around the perimeter and guys were left wide open. That silliness still doesn't address the team's weakened foot speed.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-09-2011, 09:58 AM
Jesus, Laker fan has turned into Yankee fan, thinking they can just buy every good player with their garbage in the offseason. An expiring doesn't help the Magic, especially with the question of how the new CBA is going to work with the possibility of a new cap.

Missouribronc
05-09-2011, 10:00 AM
Jesus, Laker fan has turned into Yankee fan, thinking they can just buy every good player with their garbage in the offseason. An expiring doesn't help the Magic, especially with the question of how the new CBA is going to work with the possibility of a new cap.

I'm a Nugget fan.

RhymesayersDU
05-09-2011, 10:23 AM
Kobe isn't going anywhere for a while, at least five years. He may not be as productive, and the offense might change if Jackson really does retire, so I would think the Lakers need to supplement his play, rather than try to find someone to replace him.

Howard is an upgrade over Bynum, especially with injury considerations. Would that trade actually go down...probably not, but I think it would be beneficial to the Lakers if they don't want to rebuild, but rather reload, which is usually the Laker mindset.

I would be looking for a younger big man, whether it be at the 4, or possibly trading Bynum and replacing him, although, he is still only going to be 24 next season. He still hasn't played more than 65 games in the last four years, and played in all 82 games just one season, when he was 19.

Then you look at point guard. If Kobe becomes more of a spot-up shooter than the focus of the triangle, then a solid point-guard would be a need. Because I'm close to the situation, I could see Denver sending Felton to L.A.

And maybe more of a scorer at the 3, rather than Artest, but you can't really argue Artest's defensive additions to that team.

In the short term, I think they need an energy scorer off the bench, actually. Fisher and Odom just don't seem like that type of energy player. Odom is a pretty good player (people haven't liked who I've compared him too in the past, but he's been a very good NBA player). And Fisher is just more of a liability, especially defensively.

I think they thought they were getting that player when they acquired Barnes, but that didn't pan out.

Don't have time to respond to it all, but I was under the impression Kobe was closer to retirement. If he can play at a high level for 5 more years, then yes you go out and get Dwight if you can.

TheChamp24
05-09-2011, 10:29 AM
Just watched the fouls from Odom and Bynum, and holy crap I hope Bynum gets a hefty fine and suspension to start next year. That was absolutely pathetic.
As for Kobe Bryant, he probably still has some years left, but he has a TON of minutes logged on those legs and they probably won't hold up as long as some might think.
It wouldn't be a bad idea to look at another shooter to fill in for Bryant and give him more rest.

24champ
05-09-2011, 11:48 AM
You dont think it'll be shaw? I just assumed he would be the natural choice seeing as he knows how to coach the triangle. Are you thinkin they're going to scrap it and go a different direction?

btw, here's an article that came out this morning.


The conventional wisdom is that the Lakers would go through the motions of a coaching search, then hire lead assistant Brian Shaw. The reasoning being that they have a two-time championship roster built to run the triangle offense, so you stick with what works.

But there is this one little discussed fact — owner Jerry Buss is not a huge fan of the triangle. He liked all the winning that came with Phil Jackson, but he preferred to watch a more entertaining “show time” transition offense.

Plus that championship offense didn’t look good the last week, did it?

Which is why we should take seriously the report from J.A. Adande at ESPN that the Lakers coaching search is not going to be limited in scope, or move quickly.

“That’s down the road right now,” Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak said (of hiring a coach). “That’s not something that we’re probably going to address right away.”

A source described the Lakers’ coaching search as “wide open.” He said the decision-making chain was executive vice president of player personnel Jim Buss, owner Jerry Buss, then Kupchak — “in that order.”

The Lakers management has always been deliberate, not a franchise prone to knee-jerk reactions but trying to picture the long term. That will be the case here.

But that management has to decide first what kind of team they want to have — triangle, motion offense, more transition — and then start building the roster to play it. Then hire a coach to execute it.


http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/09/report-lakers-coaching-search-%E2%80%9Cwide-open%E2%80%9D/

maven
05-09-2011, 05:03 PM
Sign and trade..

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Edit: Sorry, that didn't directly go to the trade I had...Bynum and Fisher for Howard in a sign and trade over the off-season.

Even if Howard signs a higher-dollar contract than that, the Lakers still have peripheral pieces to move other than Fisher, like Luke Walton.

Orlando isn't young, other than Nelson and Howard, so I could see them blowing it up, and taking that trade with a No. 1 attached to it.

I'm trying to see this from Otown's view. Trade Howard for a broke dick bynum and Fisher...

ROFL!

enjolras
05-09-2011, 05:44 PM
I'm trying to see this from Otown's view. Trade Howard for a broke dick bynum and Fisher...

ROFL!

They're in the same position the Nuggets were this year aren't they? If they don't trade him, they get nothing. He's not coming back (at least from what the media is saying).

maven
05-09-2011, 05:57 PM
They're in the same position the Nuggets were this year aren't they? If they don't trade him, they get nothing. He's not coming back (at least from what the media is saying).

See bold.

So the only deal out there is a brock dick Bynum and Fisher...

Ha!

Orlando can get a lot more.

maven
05-09-2011, 08:01 PM
LIKE A BOSH BABY, OH YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TonyR
05-09-2011, 08:14 PM
Cue up the LeBron haters to say that he still sucks because he only had 3 assists to go along with his 35 points and 14 boards.

maven
05-09-2011, 08:20 PM
Cue up the LeBron haters to say that he still sucks because he only had 3 assists to go along with his 35 points and 14 boards.

The haters have been quiet lately...
ROFL!

OrangeSe7en
05-09-2011, 09:34 PM
The haters have been quiet lately...
ROFL!

Ill say something. Wade is big POS and seeing him out there healthy while Rondo was playing with one arm was disgusting. If someone cheap shots Wade and injures him, he'll definitely deserve it. At least LeBron has the b*lls to be the bad guy, unlike Wade who tries to pretend like he's a good guy and not some POS.

Is that loud enough for you?

RhymesayersDU
05-09-2011, 09:49 PM
Cue up the LeBron haters to say that he still sucks because he only had 3 assists to go along with his 35 points and 14 boards.

I'm no LeBron hater, I've defended him a lot, BUT the guy has got to get better in the clutch. I mean, you can't lose the ball in that situation.

I've been on his side in this thread, just check, and I still am. He's a phenom. But at some point the end of game failures need to end.

bombay
05-09-2011, 09:53 PM
Ill say something. Wade is big POS and seeing him out there healthy while Rondo was playing with one arm was disgusting. If someone cheap shots Wade and injures him, he'll definitely deserve it. At least LeBron has the b*lls to be the bad guy, unlike Wade who tries to pretend like he's a good guy and not some POS.

Is that loud enough for you?

Yeah, sad what wade did to Rondo. He's no innocent.

Soul-Bronco
05-09-2011, 09:56 PM
Ill say something. Wade is big POS and seeing him out there healthy while Rondo was playing with one arm was disgusting. If someone cheap shots Wade and injures him, he'll definitely deserve it. At least LeBron has the b*lls to be the bad guy, unlike Wade who tries to pretend like he's a good guy and not some POS.

Is that loud enough for you?

loud enough to display how much you hate the heat

plays like that happened 5 times a game, especially in the playoffs. Wade didnt intentionally hurt rondo, this series is like a steeler-raven game. Players wanna win and are playing it physical, as its been done by any great player. Garnett is just as if not a dirtier player than anyone on the heat. But i know its hard to resist hating the heat.

All i know is the Celtics should win an award for the acting job they do every season. A fart in the wind passes and they throw themselves on the floor and acted like they just got stabbed.

Great win though ! Winning in Boston gives Miami the confidence it needs to believe they can win in Chicago.


Hey Maven, just got 4 tickets to the game on wenesday, you going?

bombay
05-09-2011, 10:01 PM
It would be unfortunate if wade got a similar, five time per game injury from a Boston bench player.

maven
05-09-2011, 10:03 PM
Ill say something. Wade is big POS and seeing him out there healthy while Rondo was playing with one arm was disgusting. If someone cheap shots Wade and injures him, he'll definitely deserve it. At least LeBron has the b*lls to be the bad guy, unlike Wade who tries to pretend like he's a good guy and not some POS.

Is that loud enough for you?

ROFL!

maven
05-09-2011, 10:05 PM
loud enough to display how much you hate the heat

plays like that happened 5 times a game, especially in the playoffs. Wade didnt intentionally hurt rondo, this series is like a steeler-raven game. Players wanna win and are playing it physical, as its been done by any great player. Garnett is just as if not a dirtier player than anyone on the heat. But i know its hard to resist hating the heat.

All i know is the Celtics should win an award for the acting job they do every season. A fart in the wind passes and they throw themselves on the floor and acted like they just got stabbed.

Great win though ! Winning in Boston gives Miami the confidence it needs to believe they can win in Chicago.


Hey Maven, just got 4 tickets to the game on wenesday, you going?

This series went the way I thought it would. Old great players, giving it their best and all, but the Heat broke them down.

If you have a spare ticket you do not need...
:wiggle:

OrangeCrush2724
05-09-2011, 10:13 PM
I'm no LeBron hater, I've defended him a lot, BUT the guy has got to get better in the clutch. I mean, you can't lose the ball in that situation.

I've been on his side in this thread, just check, and I still am. He's a phenom. But at some point the end of game failures need to end.

The play before that he took the lead with less than 1 minute left. He also hit a big 3 after Allen hit a 3 pointer to take a 3 point lead with less than 2 minutes left. That could have ended the game right there if they didn't respond.

He got couple of big baskets in OT.

Is he clutch? Probably not, but he was clutch today.

OrangeCrush2724
05-09-2011, 10:15 PM
Hey Maven, just got 4 tickets to the game on wenesday, you going?

Lucky SOB. Have fun!

24champ
05-09-2011, 11:23 PM
Anyone watching this Grizz/Thunder showdown? Going to the 3rd OT!

ZONA
05-10-2011, 04:29 AM
Yeah I don't see how anybody but a Wade hater would actually look at that play and call it dirty. You see that stuff all day long in the NBA. It's only because Rondo hurt his elbow that some people are saying it was dirty. If Rondo didn't get hurt, it would be just another foul. Dirty is when somebody tries to hurt another player, like how Garnet punched Frye in the balls or when Artest tried to clothesline shortstuff, and a few years back when Raja Bell clotheslined Kobe.

oubronco
05-10-2011, 06:20 AM
Awesome game last night the Thunder kept taking Memphis's best shot and just kept coming back great game in 3 OT

OrangeSe7en
05-10-2011, 06:57 AM
Yeah I don't see how anybody but a Wade hater would actually look at that play and call it dirty. You see that stuff all day long in the NBA. It's only because Rondo hurt his elbow that some people are saying it was dirty. If Rondo didn't get hurt, it would be just another foul. Dirty is when somebody tries to hurt another player, like how Garnet punched Frye in the balls or when Artest tried to clothesline shortstuff, and a few years back when Raja Bell clotheslined Kobe.

Youre using the wrong word. You're talking about malicious, not dirty.

But besides that, yeah, I have no respect for Wade. He tries to pretend to be this nice guy but he's really a POS thats always saying or doing something stupid.

SoonerBronco
05-10-2011, 07:36 AM
Anyone watching this Grizz/Thunder showdown? Going to the 3rd OT!

Not here, that would take away from the Laker hate that is going on in this thread...

I watched the whole game! Wow, it was exciting...

I think this is a turning point in the series...Memphis with all of there lucky circus shots, and "believe memphis" shirts sponsored by Sonic drive ins (an OKC company) could not deny the Thunder this win. Series comes back to OKC on Wednesday and the crowd will be LOUD I can guarantee it.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-10-2011, 07:52 AM
Pass. The. Ball. Westbrook.

Missouribronc
05-10-2011, 07:56 AM
Not here, that would take away from the Laker hate that is going on in this thread...

I watched the whole game! Wow, it was exciting...

I think this is a turning point in the series...Memphis with all of there lucky circus shots, and "believe memphis" shirts sponsored by Sonic drive ins (an OKC company) could not deny the Thunder this win. Series comes back to OKC on Wednesday and the crowd will be LOUD I can guarantee it.

Man there's a lot of irony in those shirts...

Sonic...against the old Sonics...based out of their new home city...

DHallblows
05-10-2011, 09:36 AM
Pass. The. Ball. Westbrook.

Despite Westbrook's best efforts, OKC still won the game...

maven
05-10-2011, 09:49 AM
Awesome game last night the Thunder kept taking Memphis's best shot and just kept coming back great game in 3 OT

Yah it was an awesome game. Durant made some clutch shots in the final OT. I think they just wore them down and finally hit some buckets to close it out.

maven
05-10-2011, 09:52 AM
Pass. The. Ball. Westbrook.

Yes, he should... But, he played a damn good game. He's young, very talented, and raw. The jump shot to close it out in OT2 was just bad, but he deserved the chance to shoot it.

maven
05-10-2011, 09:54 AM
I think this is a turning point in the series...

I think so to. Though the series is tied 2v2, I think OKC will take it now. Thunderup haha

SoonerBronco
05-10-2011, 11:00 AM
Pass. The. Ball. Westbrook.

I have uttered those words many, many times.

SoonerBronco
05-10-2011, 11:03 AM
Man there's a lot of irony in those shirts...

Sonic...against the old Sonics...based out of their new home city...

Sonic corporate was quick to point out that those shirts were sponsored by a guy that owns a lot of Sonic franchises in the Memphis area.

Irony though, still drips from it...I agree

gunns
05-10-2011, 02:47 PM
Yeah I don't see how anybody but a Wade hater would actually look at that play and call it dirty. You see that stuff all day long in the NBA. It's only because Rondo hurt his elbow that some people are saying it was dirty. If Rondo didn't get hurt, it would be just another foul. Dirty is when somebody tries to hurt another player, like how Garnet punched Frye in the balls or when Artest tried to clothesline shortstuff, and a few years back when Raja Bell clotheslined Kobe.

I agree. I'm a Celtics fan and I didn't think it was dirty. Just happened. Unfortunately.

epicSocialism4tw
05-10-2011, 05:04 PM
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OrangeSe7en
05-10-2011, 09:36 PM
Thats how the Bulls need to play (except for a few things). And more Taj Gibson please.

maven
05-10-2011, 10:41 PM
Thats how the Bulls need to play (except for a few things). And more Taj Gibson please.

Heat will take them.

Would like to see the Hawks muscle out at least one more win, make it a good series.

OrangeSe7en
05-10-2011, 11:09 PM
Heat will take them.

Would like to see the Hawks muscle out at least one more win, make it a good series.

Heat will take who?

HAT
05-10-2011, 11:27 PM
Heat will take who?

Not Boston.

RhymesayersDU
05-11-2011, 07:02 AM
Heat/Bulls should be epic. I assume LeBron or Wade will be defending Rose, which will be fascinating.

Also very excited for the WCF, whoever it is.

DrFate
05-11-2011, 07:05 AM
I don't see how CHI can make it a series - Rose is the only offensive threat.

But I'm bitter because every team I was rooting for is going to lose this round (BOS/ATL/MEM)

:P

OrangeSe7en
05-11-2011, 07:14 AM
I don't see how CHI can make it a series - Rose is the only offensive threat.

But I'm bitter because every team I was rooting for is going to lose this round (BOS/ATL/MEM)

:P

One thing to keep in mind is that the teams Chicago has been playing in the playoffs, make you play 1-5. With the Heat, its 2-4, but really 2-3. As amazing as James and Wade are as players, in some ways, playing against them could be more advantageous than playing the more balanced teams that Chicago has seen. Not only that but the Celtics are big time overrated. They stunk towards the end of the season and they only looked good against the Knicks who were the worst team in the playoffs. So a lot of people in the media are assigning distorted value to beating the Celtics because they over-esteem Boston. Miami has looked good though during the playoffs and they might very well win in a series vs. the Bulls. Their next win against the Bulls though, will be their first win against the Bulls this year.

Time will tell.

DrFate
05-11-2011, 07:25 AM
One thing to keep in mind is that the teams Chicago has been playing in the playoffs, make you play 1-5. With the Heat, its 2-4, but really 2-3. As amazing as James and Wade are as players, in some ways, playing against them could be more advantageous than playing the more balanced teams that Chicago has seen. Not only that but the Celtics are big time overrated. They stunk towards the end of the season and they only looked good against the Knicks who were the worst team in the playoffs. So a lot of people in the media are assigning distorted value to beating the Celtics because they over-esteem Boston. Miami has looked good though during the playoffs and they might very well win in a series vs. the Bulls. Their next win against the Bulls though, will be their first win against the Bulls this year.

Time will tell.

I heard the reverse argument yesterday on Mike/Mike - they felt the Heat had played their hardest competition already - that anyone in the East or the Mavs/Thunder would be a step down)

I don't think I like any of these teams that much

epicSocialism4tw
05-11-2011, 10:21 AM
I heard the reverse argument yesterday on Mike/Mike - they felt the Heat had played their hardest competition already - that anyone in the East or the Mavs/Thunder would be a step down)

I don't think I like any of these teams that much

I dont think that Chicago is a team to be pushed aside. Rose isnt their only scorer. That's a complete team with players at all 5 positions. And they have strong players at positions where the Heat are weak. They dont have weak players where the Heat are strong, either. They are better coached, and they have the best player in the East.

The Celtics look like they are too old and about to be put out to pasture. There's no way that that team is better than the Bulls.

As for the West, Dallas also is strong where the Heat are strong, and are strong where the Heat are weak. Dallas can make James and Wade work with a bevy of different effective wing defenders including Marion and Kidd. The heat, however, have nothing to offer in defending Nowitzki, Chandler, and Barea. Nowitzki has a long history of destroying Bosh. Dallas has better shooters and better defenders. Dallas, despite facing far superior competition in both rounds, is holding teams to the fewest points in the playoffs. Dallas also has the best point differential in the playoffs by a significant margin. Chicago is second. Dallas is better coached, and Dirk is the best player in the playoffs up to this point. Saying that the Heat are facing a better team right now in an old and failing Boston team is just plain wrong in light of the facts.

During the season, the Heat went on a run where they won something like 14 games in a row. Dallas went into Miami and handled them, knocking them off of their streak. Dallas is 2-0 this season against Miami.

Neither Chicago or Dallas should be discounted by homer Celtics fans and people who dont watch any sports that take place in the "flyover states".

DrFate
05-11-2011, 10:28 AM
I dont think that Chicago is a team to be pushed aside. Rose isnt their only scorer. That's a complete team with players at all 5 positions. And they have strong players at positions where the Heat are weak. They dont have weak players where the Heat are strong, either. They are better coached, and they have the best player in the East.

The Celtics look like they are too old and about to be put out to pasture. There's no way that that team is better than the Bulls.

As for the West, Dallas also is strong where the Heat are strong, and are strong where the Heat are weak. Dallas can make James and Wade work with a bevy of different effective wing defenders including Marion and Kidd. The heat, however, have nothing to offer in defending Nowitzki, Chandler, and Barea. Nowitzki has a long history of destroying Bosh. Dallas has better shooters and better defenders. Dallas, despite facing far superior competition in both rounds, is holding teams to the fewest points in the playoffs. Dallas also has the best point differential in the playoffs by a significant margin. Chicago is second. Dallas is better coached, and Dirk is the best player in the playoffs up to this point. Saying that the Heat are facing a better team right now in an old and failing Boston team is just plain wrong in light of the facts.

During the season, the Heat went on a run where they won something like 14 games in a row. Dallas went into Miami and handled them, knocking them off of their streak. Dallas is 2-0 this season against Miami.

Neither Chicago or Dallas should be discounted by homer Celtics fans and people who dont watch any sports that take place in the "flyover states".

Dallas also has a long, storied history of playoff choke jobs. I think a lot of fans are simply waiting for them to find their 'stride' and fall apart. The Lakers certainly folded like a cheap suit, so they didn't provide much resistance. Gasol was a terrible matchup for LAL, obviously. Maybe this is the year Dallas puts all those players together...

I am hoping MEM continues winning, but after the 3OT loss, I think they will fold. I'm not sure how the matchup works between OKC and DAL - lots of points from the small forward position for sure.

Noah isn't an offensive player and Boozer hasn't looked good in these playoffs. So we'll see how well that 'strong at every position' works.

epicSocialism4tw
05-11-2011, 10:50 AM
Dallas also has a long, storied history of playoff choke jobs. I think a lot of fans are simply waiting for them to find their 'stride' and fall apart. The Lakers certainly folded like a cheap suit, so they didn't provide much resistance. Gasol was a terrible matchup for LAL, obviously. Maybe this is the year Dallas puts all those players together...

Lets think about what you're saying here. Dallas swept the Lakers. The Lakers are two-time champions going for the three-peat. Most people had picked the Lakers to win it all. The Lakers didnt "fold". Dallas took every game from them. Dallas wrestled that series away from them, especially late in close games. Dallas is dominating playoff statistics right now, after having the toughest slate of games with Portland and LA. Dallas has won 6 straight games, including 3 road games.

If you're paying attention to what's happening, you know that Dallas is a rough and tumble mentally fierce team being led by a cold-blooded scorer. They are smarter and wiser than everybody else left in the playoffs after Boston leaves.

I'm not saying that Dallas will win it all. I'm just enjoying that they are still alive because I never expected them to beat the Lakers. But discount them at your own peril. The data all shows that Dallas is the best team in the league through the first two rounds of the playoffs and that Nowitzki is the best player in the playoffs.


Noah isn't an offensive player and Boozer hasn't looked good in these playoffs. So we'll see how well that 'strong at every position' works.

Noah is an impact player. He'll play well against Miami. Boozer can score in the post. Chicago just needs to put him with his back to the basket on Bosh and then instruct him to dish to Noah when the help defense comes. Taj Gibson can guard Bosh.

Requiem
05-11-2011, 10:58 AM
I don't know whether or not I should enjoy the fact the Mavs aren't going to win it all or feel bad for Llama.

TonyR
05-11-2011, 11:27 AM
The data all shows ... that Nowitzki is the best player in the playoffs.


I suppose that depends on what "data" you look at. This data shows otherwise: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?seasontype=3&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fseasontype%3d3

What data do you have that says otherwise?

Inkana7
05-11-2011, 11:30 AM
Z-Bo has been the best player in the playoffs and it shouldn't even be a contest.

And that scares me.

epicSocialism4tw
05-11-2011, 12:01 PM
I suppose that depends on what "data" you look at. This data shows otherwise: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?seasontype=3&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fseasontype%3d3

What data do you have that says otherwise?

You think that PER is the be-all, end-all? :rofl:

There's a reason that the Spurs fired Hollinger and nobody else re-hired the guy.

But I betcha didnt know that.

TonyR
05-11-2011, 12:07 PM
You think that PER is the be-all, end-all?

Not at all. I just don't know of a better measurement of a player's overall efficiency and productivity. If you have something better please share. You made the statement that Nowitzki has been the best player in the postseason so the burden of proof is on you.

epicSocialism4tw
05-11-2011, 12:23 PM
Not at all. I just don't know of a better measurement of a player's overall efficiency and productivity. If you have something better please share. You made the statement that Nowitzki has been the best player in the postseason so the burden of proof is on you.

Go to basketballreference.com and check for yourself.

Win shares.

Plus/minus.

Do your own research, guy. I dont have time to waste with ungrateful tools.

Missouribronc
05-11-2011, 12:28 PM
I suppose that depends on what "data" you look at. This data shows otherwise: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?seasontype=3&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fseasontype%3d3

What data do you have that says otherwise?

Haha. That has Nowitzki behind LeBron, that ought to piss Drama Llama off...:rofl::thumbsup:

epicSocialism4tw
05-11-2011, 12:31 PM
Haha. That has Nowitzki behind LeBron, that ought to piss Drama Llama off...

It's good fodder for the ignorant.

No wonder you guys are into it. ESPiN's probably getting 5 bucks a month from that guy too.

TonyR
05-11-2011, 12:39 PM
Do your own research, guy.

The burden of proof isn't on me. I didn't proclaim who the best player has been this postseason. Is it Nowitzki? Proove it! Or at the very least back it up with some stats. Show us something. Anything.

DrFate
05-11-2011, 12:51 PM
The Lakers didnt "fold". Dallas took every game from them.

I'm not trying to take anything away from the Mavs but the Lakers folded like a cheap suit. The Mavs played well and the Lakers had no answer for Dirk or Terry. And they shot the lights out. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking the Lakers played well...



If you're paying attention to what's happening, you know that Dallas is a rough and tumble mentally fierce team being led by a cold-blooded scorer.

Dallas has never been known for being any of the above. They haven't added Wilt last time I checked. They shot well and the Lakers quit.


But discount them at your own peril. The data all shows that Dallas is the best team in the league through the first two rounds of the playoffs and that Nowitzki is the best player in the playoffs.

I'm not discounting them. They are playing great.


Noah is an impact player. He'll play well against Miami. Boozer can score in the post. Chicago just needs to put him with his back to the basket on Bosh and then instruct him to dish to Noah when the help defense comes. Taj Gibson can guard Bosh.

I said Noah isn't an offensive threat. And he's not. He gets put-backs and whatnot, but you aren't giving him the ball on an iso play. And Boozer hasn't played all that well this postseason - look how well the Pacer front line played against the Bulls.

I don't see the Bulls as being the 'complete' team you claim they are. (the HEAT aren't either...)

Boobs McGee
05-11-2011, 12:55 PM
The Lakers lost because they didn't have enough gas in the tank to buckle down defensively, and the Mavericks were shooting UNBELIEVABLY well from behind the arc.

Major reason, IMO.

They looked old, tired, and mentally weak. Dallas obliterated them with 3's.

I just don't see them shooting that well the rest of the way...teams like OKC and Mem have very quick, capable defenders that are much younger and more tenacious.

DrFate
05-11-2011, 12:57 PM
The Lakers lost because they didn't have enough gas in the tank to buckle down defensively, and the Mavericks were shooting UNBELIEVABLY well from behind the arc.

Major reason, IMO.

They looked old, tired, and mentally weak. Dallas obliterated them with 3's.

I just don't see them shooting that well the rest of the way...teams like OKC and Mem have very quick, capable defenders that are much younger and more tenacious.

I think Dallas would have a tough time with Randolph,Gasol - but I don't think MEM will get there. I think Dallas matches up better with OKC.

epicSocialism4tw
05-11-2011, 01:05 PM
I'm not trying to take anything away from the Mavs but the Lakers folded like a cheap suit. The Mavs played well and the Lakers had no answer for Dirk or Terry. And they shot the lights out. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking the Lakers played well..

Dallas has never been known for being any of the above. They haven't added Wilt last time I checked. They shot well and the Lakers quit.

That's funny that you mentioned Wilt. Wilt didnt get a title until late in his career when he left his team to join the Lakers and was not the best player on his own team.

As for the Lakers folding...when Jet and Peja started raining in three's, it definitely broke the Lakers' spirit. But up to that point, they were playing highly motivated basketball. They just couldnt figure out a way to get Gasol to be able to consistently score against Nowitzki in the post. Dirk shut that goober down. Gasol couldnt establish deep position against him and passed the ball out of the post alot when Dirk was defending him. That's part of what's different about the Mavs in 2011. Dirk is a solid defensive player now that he has a defensive center who can rotate quickly backing him up.

Dallas surprised some of the Lakers just as much as they surprised everyone else. Bryant wasnt surprised, and he generally played like it. Dallas just owned everyone else except for Bynum. Especially complimentary guys like Gasol, Fisher, Shannon Brown, Barnes, etc.


I said Noah isn't an offensive threat. And he's not. He gets put-backs and whatnot, but you aren't giving him the ball on an iso play. And Boozer hasn't played all that well this postseason - look how well the Pacer front line played against the Bulls.

I don't see the Bulls as being the 'complete' team you claim they are. (the HEAT aren't either...)

Put backs and dunks are all Noah needs to get. He needs to be able to punish the other team when a help defender rotates over. He's more than capable of doing that, and he generates alot of crowd momentum when he makes those plays. Noah will be a big player in that series.

The Bulls are definitely a complete team. They're much like the Mavs. One dominant scorer that makes the offense go, and then a bunch of guys who on the right night can destroy a defense. Deng usually plays well against bigger wing players. Taj Gibson is an underrated backup 4. Chicago can play big. Chicago has a penetrating guard, which is Miami's kryptonite.

Gort
05-11-2011, 01:30 PM
i'm not a fan of the NBA or the "thuggery" that dominates NBA culture these days. i've said as much here and been told i don't know what i'm talking about. whatever. but i saw a photo of a HS basketball player who is being recruited out of Baltimore who is already "tatted up" the way the guys in the NBA are. i was pretty shocked when i saw a kid this young already getting tattoos. am i being an old fuddy-duddy? is this now normal? doesn't this prove my point about how the NBA "thug" culture has gotten out of hand? 17- or 18-year old kids should not be getting tattoos. is it even legal at that age?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2011-05/61510120.jpg

Inkana7
05-11-2011, 02:31 PM
That's pretty common dude.

TDmvp
05-11-2011, 03:00 PM
Ex-NBA player 'Tractor' Traylor found dead

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico -- Former NBA and University of Michigan player Robert "Tractor" Traylor has died. He was 34.

Police in San Juan, Puerto Rico, said in a statement he was found dead Wednesday on the bedroom floor of his oceanfront apartment. Police and Traylor's team, the Bayamon Cowboys, said he had been missing for a few days and apparently died from a heart attack.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6527372

maven
05-11-2011, 03:38 PM
Ex-NBA player 'Tractor' Traylor found dead

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico -- Former NBA and University of Michigan player Robert "Tractor" Traylor has died. He was 34.

Police in San Juan, Puerto Rico, said in a statement he was found dead Wednesday on the bedroom floor of his oceanfront apartment. Police and Traylor's team, the Bayamon Cowboys, said he had been missing for a few days and apparently died from a heart attack.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6527372

lots of coke down in Puerto Rico? Dang...

maven
05-11-2011, 03:41 PM
I dont think that Chicago is a team to be pushed aside. Rose isnt their only scorer. That's a complete team with players at all 5 positions. And they have strong players at positions where the Heat are weak. They dont have weak players where the Heat are strong, either. They are better coached, and they have the best player in the East.


A complete team?:rofl: You f'n serious?:giggle:

Thanks for the laugh.

Time for the Heat to close the door on the Eastern version of the Lakers. So long old geezers!

:twokisses

Chris
05-11-2011, 03:41 PM
i'm not a fan of the NBA or the "thuggery" that dominates NBA culture these days. i've said as much here and been told i don't know what i'm talking about. whatever. but i saw a photo of a HS basketball player who is being recruited out of Baltimore who is already "tatted up" the way the guys in the NBA are. i was pretty shocked when i saw a kid this young already getting tattoos. am i being an old fuddy-duddy? is this now normal? doesn't this prove my point about how the NBA "thug" culture has gotten out of hand? 17- or 18-year old kids should not be getting tattoos. is it even legal at that age?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2011-05/61510120.jpg

There is nothing wrong with tattoos. I know plenty of people with white collar jobs that have tats underneath their dumb ass shirts. I personally don't have any but I don't hold it against people.

maven
05-11-2011, 03:49 PM
i'm not a fan of the NBA or the "thuggery" that dominates NBA culture these days. i've said as much here and been told i don't know what i'm talking about. whatever. but i saw a photo of a HS basketball player who is being recruited out of Baltimore who is already "tatted up" the way the guys in the NBA are. i was pretty shocked when i saw a kid this young already getting tattoos. am i being an old fuddy-duddy? is this now normal? doesn't this prove my point about how the NBA "thug" culture has gotten out of hand? 17- or 18-year old kids should not be getting tattoos. is it even legal at that age?


I'm just guessing. Parents can sign a waiver for their child? And lots of NFL players are tatted up as well.

You're right though. Culture has changed and lots of people have tats these days. It has become more acceptable.

RhymesayersDU
05-11-2011, 04:16 PM
i'm not a fan of the NBA or the "thuggery" that dominates NBA culture these days. i've said as much here and been told i don't know what i'm talking about. whatever. but i saw a photo of a HS basketball player who is being recruited out of Baltimore who is already "tatted up" the way the guys in the NBA are. i was pretty shocked when i saw a kid this young already getting tattoos. am i being an old fuddy-duddy? is this now normal? doesn't this prove my point about how the NBA "thug" culture has gotten out of hand? 17- or 18-year old kids should not be getting tattoos. is it even legal at that age?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2011-05/61510120.jpg

Totally agree, this guy probably has a gun tucked under his jersey and is going out to break into your car after the game. Black guys with tattoos are just like that.

If you want to see a thug, you're going to see one. I do wonder how you're an NFL fan when all those guys are tatted up too.

The funny thing is, this is coming from somebody who would never ever get a tattoo. Not my thing. But the mere existence of tattoos doesn't prove anything.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-11-2011, 05:22 PM
Traylor = Dirk, Nash and (eventually) Marion in Dallas.

OrangeSe7en
05-11-2011, 05:31 PM
Not at all. I just don't know of a better measurement of a player's overall efficiency and productivity. If you have something better please share. You made the statement that Nowitzki has been the best player in the postseason so the burden of proof is on you.

It actually makes more sense to just stick to the basic stats. The problem with a lot of the more sophisticated stats is that they use the basic stats as a foundation but then rely on some form of weighting, which is inherently biased.

Another flaw with stats like Per is that for as sophisticated as they try to be, they're too rigid in acknowldging that different players affect winning in different ways that is independent of being filtered through a statistical formula. Any attempt at unitization is subject to scrutiny. If you look at the raw, more basic statistics, you can liklely learn as much or more than you can by looking at PER.

OrangeSe7en
05-11-2011, 05:37 PM
I heard the reverse argument yesterday on Mike/Mike - they felt the Heat had played their hardest competition already - that anyone in the East or the Mavs/Thunder would be a step down)

I don't think I like any of these teams that much

Yeah, I saw that. But look at Thibs' defenses of the past when they went against teams that had one or two great players. Kobe has struggled plenty against Boston in recent years and so has LeBron. Back in 2008, the team that came the closest to winning a series against Boston was the Atlanta Hawks who pushed them to 7 games in the first round.

TonyR
05-11-2011, 05:44 PM
It actually makes more sense to just stick to the basic stats. The problem with a lot of the more sophisticated stats is that they use the basic stats as a foundation but then rely on some form of weighting, which is inherently biased.

Another flaw with stats like Per is that for as sophisticated as they try to be, they're too rigid in acknowldging that different players affect winning in different ways that is independent of being filtered through a statistical formula. Any attempt at unitization is subject to scrutiny. If you look at the raw, more basic statistics, you can liklely learn as much or more than you can by looking at PER.

I see where you're coming from but PER is a hell of a lot more objective than the joker in this thread proclaiming that Nowitzki has been the best player. It's also better than just saying the top scorer is the best player because there are many other contributions to consider which PER does. The main factor that gets left out by PER is defense. Overall, hard to argue with the group of players PER has bunched at the top. As with my unanswered challenge to epicfaildramaskillet, show me a better measurement.

ludo21
05-11-2011, 07:34 PM
Anyone know of any good online sites to watch nba? WE decided to cut cable, ahhh!!!

phibacka31
05-11-2011, 07:36 PM
no joke JBJ just $h#&&ed on everyone...

maven
05-11-2011, 07:47 PM
Next team to crush: Bulls or Hawks

maven
05-11-2011, 07:57 PM
http://www.mancavesports.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/LeBron-James-Heat-480x300.jpg

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-11-2011, 08:03 PM
I wouldn't be so sure about getting through a team like the Bulls that easily. Thibodeau knows how to scheme a defense. Boston looked old and tired (which they were) and that bench failed them. Chicago can throw bodies and a big frontline at them in addition to what we already know in Rose.

maven
05-11-2011, 08:09 PM
I wouldn't be so sure about getting through a team like the Bulls that easily. Thibodeau knows how to scheme a defense. Boston looked old and tired (which they were) and that bench failed them. Chicago can throw bodies and a big frontline at them in addition to what we already know in Rose.

Chicago has to win their series first.

maven
05-11-2011, 09:01 PM
OH, I almost forgot. It's okay to jump on the Heat bandwagon now. If you like basketball, you are all witnessing the beginning of Miami Heat dynasty. We have some room, jump in.

maven
05-11-2011, 09:03 PM
http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnishared/tools/shared/mediahub/06/17/00/slideshow_1001767048_Heat_Celtics_Basketball.JPE(1 0).JPG

OrangeSe7en
05-11-2011, 09:03 PM
Chicago has to win their series first.

This is true. Atlanta makes you account for several guys. Al Horford, Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford, Jeff Teague, and Josh Smith are all capable of having big games. I could even see Marvin Williams getting it going even though he's not consistently excellent. Hopefully guys like Pachulia dont have big games again.

maven
05-11-2011, 09:03 PM
http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnishared/tools/shared/mediahub/06/17/00/slideshow_1001767052_SPORTS_BKN-HEAT-CELTICS_2_M.JPG

maven
05-11-2011, 09:04 PM
http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnishared/tools/shared/mediahub/06/17/00/slideshow_1001767102_SPORTS_BKN-HEAT-CELTICS_10_.JPG

maven
05-11-2011, 09:05 PM
http://skirtsnsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/The-Miami-Heat-Big-Three.jpg

OrangeSe7en
05-11-2011, 09:05 PM
OH, I almost forgot. It's okay to jump on the Heat bandwagon now. If you like basketball, you are all witnessing the beginning of Miami Heat dynasty. We have some room, jump in.

If you jumped on the bandwagon, why would people be worried about criticizing them? You're like the Miami Heat version of 24 Champ (or whatever his name is that always emerges once theyve won but not before or after a loss).

maven
05-11-2011, 09:07 PM
This is true. Atlanta makes you account for several guys. Al Horford, Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford, Jeff Teague, and Josh Smith are all capable of having big games. I could even see Marvin Williams getting it going even though he's not consistently excellent. Hopefully guys like Pachulia dont have big games again.

Game is at home. Atlanta going to show up or not. They can definitely take it to game 7, do they have it in them?

maven
05-11-2011, 09:11 PM
If you jumped on the bandwagon, why would people be worried about criticizing them? You're like the Miami Heat version of 24 Champ (or whatever his name is that always emerges once theyve won but not before or after a loss).

Heat look good am I right? You gonna come aboard?

Soul-Bronco
05-11-2011, 09:12 PM
WHAT A GAME !!!!! just got back and i have to say, I have never seen or heard the AA arena as loud as it was when lebron WET that three in pierces face at the end of the game! LOVED IT!!!!

Had a blast at the game, sorry i didnt have an extra ticket for ya maven, you would of loved it ! :strong::strong::strong:

maven
05-11-2011, 09:16 PM
WHAT A GAME !!!!! just got back and i have to say, I have never seen or heard the AA arena as loud as it was when lebron WET that three in pierces face at the end of the game! LOVED IT!!!!

Had a blast at the game, sorry i didnt have an extra ticket for ya maven, you would of loved it ! :strong::strong::strong:

Thats awesome you were there! What a great ending! Celtics played it tough, then Lebron went straight 10 points baby! I loved that steal and dunk! That was so awesome! We are witnessing the beginning of a dynasty my man!

OrangeSe7en
05-11-2011, 09:18 PM
Heat look good am I right? You gonna come aboard?

Why would I? The Heat are nothing but a cheap Bulls knock off. Ive already experienced the real thing. I wouldn't do that just so slum it.

Soul-Bronco
05-11-2011, 09:19 PM
Thats awesome you were there! What a great ending! Celtics played it tough, then Lebron went straight 10 points baby! I loved that steal and dunk! That was so awesome! We are witnessing the beginning of a dynasty my man!

for sure dude, it was looking scary there for a long time but after bosh dunked it, the whole stadium erupted and didn’t sit down the rest of the game!

Got some pics commin soon ill post, just gotta wait for the lady to upload em !

maven
05-11-2011, 09:21 PM
for sure dude, it was looking scary there for a long time but after bosh dunked it, the whole stadium erupted and didn’t sit down the rest of the game!

Got some pics commin soon ill post, just gotta wait for the lady to upload em !

Load em!

maven
05-11-2011, 09:27 PM
Why would I? The Heat are nothing but a cheap Bulls knock off. Ive already experienced the real thing. I wouldn't do that just so slum it.

Follow this on twitter

@heat_bandwagon

:giggle:

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-11-2011, 09:32 PM
Insufferable.

maven
05-11-2011, 09:44 PM
http://i.imgur.com/DNiFZ.png

OrangeCrush2724
05-11-2011, 09:58 PM
I hear crickets...

!Booya!!Booya!!Booya!

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-11-2011, 10:00 PM
No one from Miami, the players included, seem to realize it's only the 2nd round. LeBron and Wade looked ready for the parade and champagne.

OrangeCrush2724
05-11-2011, 10:03 PM
No one from Miami, the players included, seem to realize it's only the 2nd round. LeBron and Wade looked ready for the parade and champagne.

No, they were just happy they beat the team that would have given them the toughest time.

OrangeCrush2724
05-11-2011, 10:05 PM
Wade was taking the game over the first 3 quarters, and King James took over in the 4th.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-11-2011, 10:16 PM
No, they were just happy they beat the team that would have given them the toughest time.

A decrepit, broken Celtics team with a gimpy Rondo was going to be their biggest challenge? Even with a healthy Rondo, most everyone recognized Boston lost their mojo long ago.

epicSocialism4tw
05-11-2011, 11:29 PM
A decrepit, broken Celtics team with a gimpy Rondo was going to be their biggest challenge? Even with a healthy Rondo, most everyone recognized Boston lost their mojo long ago.

No joke.

The fact that these Miami bandwagoners think that the Celtics were there biggest challenge just goes to show you that bandwagoners dont know much.

Chicago ain't no pushover.

There's nobody on Miami who can stop the Rose parade. He has a free lane to the basket every time he touches the ball.

TonyR
05-12-2011, 07:10 AM
Why would I? The Heat are nothing but a cheap Bulls knock off. Ive already experienced the real thing. I wouldn't do that just so slum it.

How does he like his grapes, folks? Why, clearly he likes them sour!

OrangeSe7en
05-12-2011, 07:11 AM
How does he like his grapes, folks? Why, clearly he likes them sour!

That makes no sense. How is it sour grapes?

TonyR
05-12-2011, 07:13 AM
Chicago ain't no pushover.

There's nobody on Miami who can stop the Rose parade. He has a free lane to the basket every time he touches the ball.

LOL You've been bashing Miami, particularly LeBron, for the past several weeks. Now they dominate a Celtics team that many had penciled in for the finals and you're not willing to admit you were wrong about them. Hilarious how Chicago isn't a pushover but no realization that Miami isn't, either, despite what you've been saying. And yes, Rose is a great player but you look rather foolish saying so without also mentioned that LeBron and Wade are pretty damn good themselves. You think Chicago might have their hands a little bit full with those two? Just maybe? Set aside your hate and your agenda and open your eyes.

All this and I'm not even a Miami heat fan...

Inkana7
05-12-2011, 07:13 AM
You'd think that the Heat actually won something, not just a 2nd round series.

TonyR
05-12-2011, 07:15 AM
That makes no sense. How is it sour grapes?

The Heat win, you don't like it, so you criticize them. Fairly simple concept, really.

TonyR
05-12-2011, 07:17 AM
You'd think that the Heat actually won something, not just a 2nd round series.

Correct. I think what's going on here is that a lot of posters here "hate" the Heat so the Heat fans are going to rub it in where and when they can. I'm not a Heat fan but I laugh at people who are so busy hating on the Heat that they can't admit what special players LeBron and Wade are, and they're winning with a very mediocre to poor supporting cast particularly outside of Bosh.

OrangeSe7en
05-12-2011, 07:22 AM
The Heat win, you don't like it, so you criticize them. Fairly simple concept, really.

Sorry, that still doesnt make any sense. He said something about jumping on the bandwagon and thats what I was responding to.

If anything is simple, it's you.

OrangeSe7en
05-12-2011, 07:24 AM
LOL You've been bashing Miami, particularly LeBron, for the past several weeks. Now they dominate a Celtics team that many had penciled in for the finals and you're not willing to admit you were wrong about them. Hilarious how Chicago isn't a pushover but no realization that Miami isn't, either, despite what you've been saying. And yes, Rose is a great player but you look rather foolish saying so without also mentioned that LeBron and Wade are pretty damn good themselves. You think Chicago might have their hands a little bit full with those two? Just maybe? Set aside your hate and your agenda and open your eyes.

All this and I'm not even a Miami heat fan...

Once again, simpleton in its purest form. He's responding to the notion that people are writing Miami in to the finals in ink. He's saying don't be so quick to count out the Bulls because of the reaction to Miami's win. What you're getting out of it with this comment isnt really there.

TonyR
05-12-2011, 07:29 AM
Once again, simpleton in its purest form. He's responding to the notion that people are writing Miami in to the finals in ink. He's saying don't be so quick to count out the Bulls because of the reaction to Miami's win. What you're getting out of it with this comment isnt really there.

It's not just this comment, it's the body of work over the past several weeks. You're either late to the party or blind. Many people here have been bashing LeBron and Miami for weeks. Nothing positive to say, calling him "LeBrick" and "LeChoke", etc. Those people look pretty foolish right now. Of course all that can change if Miami underperforms in the next series. I agree that the Miami celebrations are a little over the top but I also think the Heat fans have earned the right to crow a little in response to the haters.

SoonerBronco
05-12-2011, 07:32 AM
I dont hate the Heat or Heat fans...I think they get lumped into the "Lebron" hype...The announcement, the resentment of Cleveland fans for him, the resentment that he didn't go where others wanted him...

I'm sure it would be the same kind of feeling for any team that Lebron would have went to.

But to think that Boston was the best competition they were going to face is obsurd...if they make the finals, the West Champ, whomever that may be, will be the toughest that they face.

On another note...Memphis looked a little tired last night...

I saw a tweet last night that said, "who would win a jump off??? Zack Randolph, Kendrick Perkins, or a 2000 lbs. rock?"

Im really hoping the Thunder can close it out Friday...

OrangeSe7en
05-12-2011, 07:33 AM
It's not just this comment, it's the body of work over the past several weeks. You're either late to the party or blind. Many people here have been bashing LeBron and Miami for weeks. Nothing positive to say, calling him "LeBrick" and "LeChoke", etc. Those people look pretty foolish right now.

Not really. LeBron brought this on himself. He's no victim.

Of course all that can change if Miami underperforms in the next series. I agree that the Miami celebrations are a little over the top but I also think the Heat fans have earned the right to crow a little in response to the haters.

I dont even care about the celebrations. But again, these guys aren't victims. Any criticism they get was brought on by themselves.

OrangeSe7en
05-12-2011, 07:36 AM
Correct. I think what's going on here is that a lot of posters here "hate" the Heat so the Heat fans are going to rub it in where and when they can. I'm not a Heat fan but I laugh at people who are so busy hating on the Heat that they can't admit what special players LeBron and Wade are, and they're winning with a very mediocre to poor supporting cast particularly outside of Bosh.

Why are people obligated to like or be tolerant of the Heat? Is it possible that you're just some Heat apologist?

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-12-2011, 07:42 AM
Empty courtside seats at tip-off every night shows you everything you need to know about the Heat fanbase.

TonyR
05-12-2011, 08:07 AM
LeBron brought this on himself. He's no victim.

Agree. He handled the transition from Cleveland to Miami very poorly, although he had every right to make the decision he made. My point is that you can hate him all you want but you're an idiot if you can't acknowledge/admit that he's a great player.

maven
05-12-2011, 09:08 AM
No joke.

The fact that these Miami bandwagoners think that the Celtics were there biggest challenge just goes to show you that bandwagoners dont know much.

Chicago ain't no pushover.

There's nobody on Miami who can stop the Rose parade. He has a free lane to the basket every time he touches the ball.

They closed the Celtics out in 5 games. I am very happy with that.

Who on the Chicago squad is going to stop LeBron & Wade?

ROFL!

maven
05-12-2011, 09:10 AM
Empty courtside seats at tip-off every night shows you everything you need to know about the Heat fanbase.

Tell me more about the Heat fanbase.

Ha!

Mavs win a series, rather than choking like usual, and their fans are growing some nuts again.

ROFL!

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-12-2011, 09:13 AM
Tell me more about the Heat fanbase.

Ha!

Mavs win a series, rather than choking like usual, and their fans are growing some nuts again.

ROFL!

Sure. Whatever you think. We've been believing for years and didnt need bull**** collusion and TV specials to get us to buy into our team. You know damn good and well that everyone mocks the Heat fanbase, that they're nothing but a bunch of nuthugging bandwaggoners. It's not just around here.

maven
05-12-2011, 09:13 AM
You'd think that the Heat actually won something, not just a 2nd round series.

They did. They are heading to the eastern conference finals and knocked out the Celtics.

maven
05-12-2011, 09:16 AM
Sure. Whatever you think. We've been believing for years and didnt need bull**** collusion and TV specials to get us to buy into our team. You know damn good and well that everyone mocks the Heat fanbase, that they're nothing but a bunch of nuthugging bandwaggoners. It's not just around here.

Still bitter by the finals huh. Just think, two wins from a championship... Poor poor Mavs fans.

ROFL!

You're just a h8r. Dog piling with the rest on the Heat.

maven
05-12-2011, 09:18 AM
made. My point is that you can hate him all you want but you're an idiot if you can't acknowledge/admit that he's a great player.

Do not count on it. They are just waiting for him to fail.

maven
05-12-2011, 09:25 AM
I hear crickets...

!Booya!!Booya!!Booya!

The only think left is a couple of Mavs fans and maybe a bulls fan. There's some Thunder fans in here too.

If the Heat play Dallas in the finals, we'll make Dallas our b1tch again.

ROFL!

Inkana7
05-12-2011, 09:47 AM
Do not count on it. They are just waiting for him to fail.

Yep, because it happens like clockwork year after year.

Inkana7
05-12-2011, 09:48 AM
They did. They are heading to the eastern conference finals and knocked out the Celtics.

And? I really don't think that requires hugging, crying and kneeling before God.

Oh wait, this is LeBron James we're talking about.

TonyR
05-12-2011, 10:06 AM
Yep, because it happens like clockwork year after year.

So you're saying that, in relative and objective terms, LeBron's career has been a "failure"? And you think that's a rational opinion?

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-12-2011, 11:16 AM
Maven, you're talking an awful lot of **** for a guy that's been around here for 6 years and only started posting in the NBA threads this season.

Inkana7
05-12-2011, 11:30 AM
So you're saying that, in relative and objective terms, LeBron's career has been a "failure"? And you think that's a rational opinion?

LeBron James is a great player. But if you measure the careers of great players by championships, then yes, he has been a failure. Both as a person and a player.

cutthemdown
05-12-2011, 11:35 AM
I will be pulling for any team other then the Heat.

TonyR
05-12-2011, 11:58 AM
...if you measure the careers of great players by championships, then yes, he has been a failure.

By that measurement alone, yes. But in perspective, no. Dirk Nowitzki is a considerably larger failure, right? Seriously, what young player in the modern era has won a championship with no help? LeBron carried the Cavs and the team has cratered since he left. Now with D Wade he's got a shot. Just like the younger Shaq and Kobe needed each other, and just like MJ with Pippen, etc.

Inkana7
05-12-2011, 12:06 PM
By that measurement alone, yes. But in perspective, no. Dirk Nowitzki is a considerably larger failure, right? Seriously, what young player in the modern era has won a championship with no help? LeBron carried the Cavs and the team has cratered since he left. Now with D Wade he's got a shot. Just like the younger Shaq and Kobe needed each other, and just like MJ with Pippen, etc.

Of course Dirk's a failure. You'll never see him mentioned with all-time greats because of that shortcoming. Neither will LeBron. Unlike football, winning an NBA championship brings a lot more clout in the "all-time" discussion. Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl, but many would consider him the greatest quarterback of all time.

LeBron made the 2007 completely on his own. Literally no help. His teams were the best in the league in 2009 and 2010, better than the teams they lost to in the playoffs. I watched that Boston series last year. Dude quit.

I could excuse him trying to chase a title a la Malone with the Lakers, after years of trying and failing in Utah. But I don't think it was that. LeBron wanted the glitz and the easy path to the Finals with Wade and Bosh.

Combine that with the fact that he turned his back on his own hometown (the area code, 330, which he has tattooed on his arm happens to be mine as well), and I don't think it's too hard to see why his success upsets me. If he was willing to put the work in and be patient, he could have won in Cleveland.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-12-2011, 12:26 PM
I think the word "failure" is a bit harsh under the circumstance of guys not winning titles.

epicSocialism4tw
05-12-2011, 12:30 PM
Of course Dirk's a failure. You'll never see him mentioned with all-time greats because of that shortcoming. Neither will LeBron. Unlike football, winning an NBA championship brings a lot more clout in the "all-time" discussion. Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl, but many would consider him the greatest quarterback of all time.

LeBron made the 2007 completely on his own. Literally no help. His teams were the best in the league in 2009 and 2010, better than the teams they lost to in the playoffs. I watched that Boston series last year. Dude quit.

I could excuse him trying to chase a title a la Wilt with the Lakers, after years of trying and failing in Philly. But I don't think it was that. LeBron wanted the glitz and the easy path to the Finals with Wade and Bosh.

Combine that with the fact that he turned his back on his own hometown (the area code, 330, which he has tattooed on his arm happens to be mine as well), and I don't think it's too hard to see why his success upsets me. If he was willing to put the work in and be patient, he could have won in Cleveland.

LeBron took the easy way out. I think that the greats who used to battle against each other (Jordan, Thomas, Miller, Bird, Johnson, etc) probably thought that LeBron was soft for leaving his team to play with Wade and Bosh. The NBA was built on those rivalries.

If the Mavs and the Heat play in the finals, it will be an interesting juxtaposition of LeBron and Dirk. Dirk is essentially LeBron if LeBron had stayed in Cleveland. He has played with a bunch of moving parts, none of which are even close to his ability. None of which are legitimate second stars. LeBron would have likely had had the same experience. A bunch of Mo Williamses but no second stars. LeBron chose to bail. Dirk chose to stick it out. Dirk has talked about wanting to win it for Dallas more than wanting to leave to go somewhere else.

That should be the prevailing storyline of that finals. What if LeBron had stuck it out like Dirk? Will Dirk as a single star be able to beat the three star players who sold out their loyalties for a chance to make things easier on them?

I dont think that anything would shame LeBron any more than losing with the Heat to what he could have become.

epicSocialism4tw
05-12-2011, 12:33 PM
I think the word "failure" is a bit harsh under the circumstance of guys not winning titles.

Failure would be an apt description of someone like Roy Tarpley.

TonyR
05-12-2011, 01:23 PM
...he turned his back on his own hometown...

He did, true. But as cold as it may be he owes Cleveland nothing. It's his life and his career. If he'd have jilted another city/team for your city team, on the other hand, you'd love him. Although far from a perfect comparison remember that John Elway jilted Baltimore. We love him, Colts fans hated him!

TonyR
05-12-2011, 01:26 PM
Dirk is essentially LeBron if LeBron had stayed in Cleveland. He has played with a bunch of moving parts, none of which are even close to his ability. None of which are legitimate second stars.

I agree although I think you could make a fair argument that Dirk had some better teams than LeBron ever had in Cleveland. He had Michael Finley, Steve Nash, Nick Van Exel, and Juwan Howard for a couple of years, for example. No matter what you think of those players you have to admit LeBron never had a team like that around him.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-12-2011, 03:19 PM
Miami Douche:

http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/mike-bibby-uggs-2.jpg

Soul-Bronco
05-12-2011, 03:56 PM
Empty courtside seats at tip-off every night shows you everything you need to know about the Heat fanbase.

Hey einstein, i know its hard to think outside the box being a mavericks fan and all but being a RESIDENT of Miami, and living 40 minutes away from the stadium........i left my house at 5.30 just to be sure, and didnt make it in my seat until 7.20 due to the substantial amount of gridlock traffic in downtown miami.

That arena didnt have an empty seat in it, i know your hate for the heat blinds you, but try and open your eyes......

not to mention the crowds of people outside the stadium trying to scalp for tickets........

but yea smart guy, let your TV in Dallas show you what the Miami fan base is like, I have never heard the AA arena as loud as it was yesterday, but don’t take it from the heat fan, just watch on TV


GO HEAT !

Inkana7
05-12-2011, 03:59 PM
Clearly the attendance of fans for playoff games is good evidence for average attendance.

maven
05-12-2011, 03:59 PM
Maven, you're talking an awful lot of **** for a guy that's been around here for 6 years and only started posting in the NBA threads this season.

U MAD?

You still mad at the Heat for taking a dump on your team back in 06?

:thumbs:

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-12-2011, 04:00 PM
Hey einstein, i know its hard to think outside the box being a mavericks fan and all but being a RESIDENT of Miami, and living 40 minutes away from the stadium........i left my house at 5.30 just to be sure, and didnt make it in my seat until 7.20 due to the substantial amount of gridlock traffic in downtown miami.

That arena didnt have an empty seat in it, i know your hate for the heat blinds you, but try and open your eyes......

not to mention the crowds of people outside the stadium trying to scalp for tickets........

but yea smart guy, let your TV in Dallas show you what the Miami fan base is like, I have never heard the AA arena as loud as it was yesterday, but don’t take it from the heat fan, just watch on TV


GO HEAT !

Riiiiiiight. Because I'm the only one that notices and mocks the Miami fanbase for not being able to show up in time for tip. It happens ALL THE TIME. Don't pretend that it was unique to just yesterday's game. Check it out - if you know the traffic is bad in the area and it's a 7pm tip - LEAVE EARLIER. How's that for an 'Einstein' solving things for you?

Soul-Bronco
05-12-2011, 04:02 PM
Dallas Douche, see the difference?

maven
05-12-2011, 04:03 PM
By that measurement alone, yes. But in perspective, no. Dirk Nowitzki is a considerably larger failure, right? Seriously, what young player in the modern era has won a championship with no help? LeBron carried the Cavs and the team has cratered since he left. Now with D Wade he's got a shot. Just like the younger Shaq and Kobe needed each other, and just like MJ with Pippen, etc.

If you do not win championships, you will be considered a failure. This is sports we are talking about. The goal is to attain and be the best. And championships define a player. Someone mentioned Marino. Unfortunately, all he has left is stats. And as time passes other QB's will break them. By not winning the big one, he will always be beneath the ones who did. Karl Malone, Stockton. Great players, but didn't get it done.

Soul-Bronco
05-12-2011, 04:04 PM
Riiiiiiight. Because I'm the only one that notices and mocks the Miami fanbase for not being able to show up in time for tip. It happens ALL THE TIME. Don't pretend that it was unique to just yesterday's game. Check it out - if you know the traffic is bad in the area and it's a 7pm tip - LEAVE EARLIER. How's that for an 'Einstein' solving things for you?

yea leaving 2 hours in advance isnt enough, ya know because no one works or has children or anything of that sort right.....you know their is more to do in miami than just eat.

TDmvp
05-12-2011, 04:05 PM
U MAD?

You still mad at the Heat for taking a dump on your team back in 06?

:thumbs:

I'm not a fan of either team from that finals really and didn't hate either team and didn't really care who won but I think it was more like the refs took a dump on the Mavs ...


That was some of the worst reffed basketball I ever watched.

I questioned why anyone would even watch the sport after how crappy that finals was. I still watch but that year was garbage.


Edit:
and looking back I kinda wanted the heat to win because I wanted to see Shaq get a ring without Kobe before kobe without Shaq , but during those games I felt sorry for Dallas cause they was getting hosed....

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-12-2011, 04:05 PM
U MAD?

You still mad at the Heat for taking a dump on your team back in 06?

:thumbs:

Not mad at all. That was 5 years ago. You know, well after you joined the Mane and had a chance to talk about it when it was actually happening. Where were you then? We've all taken our beatings over the 06 and 07 seasons. I'm over it. But to only come in now and trumpet the Heat with the LeBron avatar is a prime example of what everyone thinks of the Heat fanbase as nothing but posers.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-12-2011, 04:07 PM
yea leaving 2 hours in advance isnt enough, ya know because no one works or has children or anything of that sort right.....you know their is more to do in miami than just eat.

Do you think people in other cities have jobs and kids? Maybe? How is it they seem to make it on time to support their team?

maven
05-12-2011, 04:08 PM
Not mad at all. That was 5 years ago. You know, well after you joined the Mane and had a chance to talk about it when it was actually happening. Where were you then? We've all taken our beatings over the 06 and 07 seasons. I'm over it. But to only come in now and trumpet the Heat with the LeBron avatar is a prime example of what everyone thinks of the Heat fanbase as nothing but posers.


YEP, U MAD

:giggle:

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-12-2011, 04:08 PM
Dallas Douche, see the difference?

Yeah, he's not a grown man wearing a scarf and Uggs in May.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-12-2011, 04:09 PM
YEP, U MAD

:giggle:

How old are you?

Soul-Bronco
05-12-2011, 04:11 PM
Do you think people in other cities have jobs and kids? Maybe? How is it they seem to make it on time to support their team?

do those games start at 7 pm? i didnt think so.....

maven
05-12-2011, 04:13 PM
Yep, because it happens like clockwork year after year.

We will see! Bulls/Hawks up next. Like to see the Hawks push it to 7.

oubronco
05-12-2011, 04:13 PM
Go Thunder!!!

BroncoLifer
05-12-2011, 04:13 PM
I'm not a fan of either team from that finals really and didn't hate either team and didn't really care who won but I think it was more like the refs took a dump on the Mavs ...


That was some of the worst reffed basketball I ever watched.

I questioned why anyone would even watch the sport after how crappy that finals was. I still watch but that year was garbage.

Co-sign. I'm also not a fan of either Miami or Dallas but that Finals seriously impacted how I think about the NBA. With the possible exception of Olympic boxing, the worst officiating ever. And even worse in my eyes was the official NBA/David Stern "there's no problem here" insult to our intelligence.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-12-2011, 04:13 PM
do those games start at 7 pm? i didnt think so.....

http://mt.nesn.com/.a/6a0115709f071f970b014e883a8ced970d-pi

maven
05-12-2011, 04:14 PM
And? I really don't think that requires hugging, crying and kneeling before God.

Oh wait, this is LeBron James we're talking about.

They won and they're happy. Why u gotta h8?

:twokisses

Inkana7
05-12-2011, 04:16 PM
Maven's thought process in this thread:

postpostpostpostpost

emoticonemoticonemoticon

maven
05-12-2011, 04:17 PM
[QUOTE=Rulon Velvet Jones;3182783]derp[QUOTE]

What is your point? That some Heat fans show up late? Is that all you got?

TDmvp
05-12-2011, 04:18 PM
Yea the whole U mad thing comes off like them retarded...

It's like nope, I'm not mad I just think you're a moron who talks like a child.

Very stupid saying... I hope it goes into the crap saying vault at some point and becomes a thing of the past like cool beans , shey right , and everything Polly Shore ever said.

Hopefully soon Duh Winning also makes its way to the past as well.

TDmvp
05-12-2011, 04:19 PM
Co-sign. I'm also not a fan of either Miami or Dallas but that Finals seriously impacted how I think about the NBA. With the possible exception of Olympic boxing, the worst officiating ever. And even worse in my eyes was the official NBA/David Stern "there's no problem here" insult to our intelligence.



Ditto ...

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-12-2011, 04:19 PM
Maven, you need to be careful about thinking too far ahead. Just like the Mavs matching up with the Thunder or Grizzlies, getting to the Finals through Chicago/ATL won't be an easy task. There's a stark difference between the capabilities of the Bulls and the Celtics. Wade didn't really have anyone to cover in this last series. Will Spoelstra stick him on Rose? If not, they're in trouble. And if they do, Wade will have to bust his ass every time Rose is in the game. They roll 8-deep and have a strong frontcourt. Once the "We Won In The Second Round" parade wraps up, the Heat will have their work cut out for them if they meet up with Chicago in the ECF.

Soul-Bronco
05-12-2011, 04:21 PM
[QUOTE=Rulon Velvet Jones;3182789]Maven, you need to be careful about thinking too far ahead. Just like the Mavs matching up with the Thunder or Grizzlies, getting to the Finals through Chicago/ATL won't be an easy task. There's a stark difference between the capabilities of the Bulls and the Celtics. Wade didn't really have anyone to cover in this last series. Will Spoelstra stick him on Rose? If not, they're in trouble. And if they do, Wade will have to bust his ass every time Rose is in the game. They roll 8-deep and have a strong frontcourt. Once the "We Won In The Second Round" parade wraps up, the Heat will have their work cut out for them if they meet up with Chicago in the ECF.[/

so you consider ray allen a no one?

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-12-2011, 04:25 PM
Ray Allen obviously isn't a nobody, but things become difficult when you have a one-armed PG trying to get you the ball. And, beyond that, Allen is no Derrick Rose at this point in his career.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-12-2011, 04:30 PM
Look, Miami is a damn good team on both offense and defense. Those two guys scare the living crap out of their opponents (Not counting Bosh. No one counts Bosh). But there's still a long way to go and the competition only gets more difficult from here out. Boston wasn't "Boston" in that series. They'd lost their mojo long ago. The build of the team wasn't good this season. While they still had great efforts out of Rondo, Pierce, Allen and KG, their supporting crew was below-average and their old legs failed them this time around. When you bail on Perkins and rely on J. O'Neal and Shaq to patrol the paint, that's not a recipe for playoff success.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-12-2011, 04:33 PM
Look, Miami is a damn good team on both offense and defense. Those two guys scare the living crap out of their opponents (Not counting Bosh. No one counts Bosh). But there's still a long way to go and the competition only gets more difficult from here out. Boston wasn't "Boston" in that series. They'd lost their mojo long ago. The build of the team wasn't good this season. While they still had great efforts out of Rondo, Pierce, Allen and KG, their supporting crew was below-average and their old legs failed them this time around. When you bail on Perkins and rely on J. O'Neal and Shaq to patrol the paint, that's not a recipe for playoff success.

Sure, but it wasnt as if Miami had much trouble with that depleted Boston team either

epicSocialism4tw
05-12-2011, 04:48 PM
I agree although I think you could make a fair argument that Dirk had some better teams than LeBron ever had in Cleveland. He had Michael Finley, Steve Nash, Nick Van Exel, and Juwan Howard for a couple of years, for example. No matter what you think of those players you have to admit LeBron never had a team like that around him.

Back when Nash was with Dallas, he wasnt quite the Phoenix Nash. The difference in his productivity is clear. Nash has said as much also. Dallas made the Western Conference Finals with Dirk and Nash. They were primed to win the series against the eventual champion Spurs and Dirk had a knee ligament injury. Nash was gone the season after the following season.

I'm not quite sure why you listed Van Exel and Juwan Howard. They're both scrubs who were bit players in Dallas. I think you're referring to Josh Howard, to which effect I only have to ask that you tell us what Josh has done since leaving Dallas.

Like LeBron, Dirk has had some above-average players as teammates...but never the superstar types. Like Dirk, LeBron's right hand guy was a 6th man-type combo guard. LeBron also had a former Dirk teammate Antawn Jamison, Anderson Varajao, Carlos Boozer, etc. Those are all the same types of players that have played with Dirk. Above average maybe one time all-star-types who never really became star players.

The difference between Dirk and LeBron is that Dirk wanted to win for the fans in Dallas. He didnt want to glom on with some other guys. He wanted to do it on his own in Dallas.

I think that thats the storyline if it does end up a Dallas/Miami finals. Dirk is the lone wolf on a mission and LeBron is the guy who bailed.

epicSocialism4tw
05-12-2011, 04:49 PM
Co-sign. I'm also not a fan of either Miami or Dallas but that Finals seriously impacted how I think about the NBA. With the possible exception of Olympic boxing, the worst officiating ever. And even worse in my eyes was the official NBA/David Stern "there's no problem here" insult to our intelligence.

Wade shot more free throws than the entire Mavs team.

How the heck does that happen?

epicSocialism4tw
05-12-2011, 04:51 PM
http://mt.nesn.com/.a/6a0115709f071f970b014e883a8ced970d-pi

:rofl:

epicSocialism4tw
05-12-2011, 04:56 PM
Yea the whole U mad thing comes off like them retarded...

It's like nope, I'm not mad I just think you're a moron who talks like a child.

Very stupid saying... I hope it goes into the crap saying vault at some point and becomes a thing of the past like cool beans , shey right , and everything Polly Shore ever said.

Hopefully soon Duh Winning also makes its way to the past as well.

You forgot "Homie dont play dat".

My favorites: "Wha' Happened?!?","Iiiiiiiiiiii dont think so!", and "Ive got a wittwe wed wagon!"
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l27hgp8cLP1qzhiqwo1_500.png

TonyR
05-12-2011, 05:21 PM
I'm not quite sure why you listed Van Exel and Juwan Howard. They're both scrubs who were bit players in Dallas. I think you're referring to Josh Howard, to which effect I only have to ask that you tell us what Josh has done since leaving Dallas.

Like LeBron, Dirk has had some above-average players as teammates...but never the superstar types. Like Dirk, LeBron's right hand guy was a 6th man-type combo guard. LeBron also had a former Dirk teammate Antawn Jamison, Anderson Varajao, Carlos Boozer, etc. Those are all the same types of players that have played with Dirk. Above average maybe one time all-star-types who never really became star players.

Van Exel and Juwan Howard were still decent players when they played for Dallas. Josh Howard came later and was a good young player but I think he liked the weed a little too much. Dirk also played with Jason Terry during some of his better years.

Jamison was serviceable but mostly washed up when he played with LeBron. I don't think Boozer and LeBron ever played together, did they? Again, nobody comparable to the comination of Nash and Finley, among others.

epicSocialism4tw
05-12-2011, 05:29 PM
Van Exel and Juwan Howard were still decent players when they played for Dallas. Josh Howard came later and was a good young player but I think he liked the weed a little too much. Dirk also played with Jason Terry during some of his better years.

Jamison was serviceable but mostly washed up when he played with LeBron. I don't think Boozer and LeBron ever played together, did they? Again, nobody comparable to the comination of Nash and Finley, among others.

Juwon Howard was a scrub in Dallas.

Nash's last year in Dallas he averaged 14.5 points and 8.8 assists. That's pretty good, and borderline all-star stuff...but it wasnt superstar stuff. The next year in PHX he averaged 15.5 points and 11.5 assists. Then his scoring went up with his assists. Not the same player that he was in Dallas at all.

Finley was good back in the day when Dirk was a youngster. I think he made the all star team once. But lets not inflate Finley to be something that he wasnt just for the sake of trying to prop up LeBron.

OrangeSe7en
05-12-2011, 05:53 PM
By that measurement alone, yes. But in perspective, no. Dirk Nowitzki is a considerably larger failure, right? Seriously, what young player in the modern era has won a championship with no help? LeBron carried the Cavs and the team has cratered since he left. Now with D Wade he's got a shot. Just like the younger Shaq and Kobe needed each other, and just like MJ with Pippen, etc.

People often say, "Jordan had Pippen" but I dont think people realize how responsible Jordan was for the success of Pippen. First of all, Jordan was an ass kicker. He demanded guys bring it in practice and the fact that Jordan was like this allowed Phil to be the "Zen Master". Someone had to be Lombardi and that person was Jordan. The other thing is that, in the process of demanding that Pippen bring it, practicing against Jordan every day in practice was a tremendous advantage to the development of Pippen. You got to give credit to Pippen for wanting to step up his game but had he not been around Jordan, its debateable whether Pippen would have been a HOFer, let alone just some guy.

OrangeSe7en
05-12-2011, 05:58 PM
Agree. He handled the transition from Cleveland to Miami very poorly, although he had every right to make the decision he made. My point is that you can hate him all you want but you're an idiot if you can't acknowledge/admit that he's a great player.

Not really. There was most likely collusion and tampering. It's not a player's or executive's right to do that. Aside from that, I dont think anyone is really saying LeBron's not a great player. But at the same time, he's not without flaw.

OrangeCrush2724
05-12-2011, 06:36 PM
And? I really don't think that requires hugging, crying and kneeling before God.

Oh wait, this is LeBron James we're talking about.

Unless it is a buzzer beater, if the Heat beat the Bulls, they don't celebrate like that. They celebrated like that because it was the "Celtics." James has said that beating the Celtics was one of his goals of the year.

James has said, he could not beat the Celetics by himself. And one of the reasons why he joined Wade and Bosh was to get past the Celtics.

Celtics were also the Eastern Conf champions. Beating the champion is special in itself.

They win, and now it is "They over celebrated." ???? Get real. Eat crow and hope the bulls beat them.

oubronco
05-12-2011, 06:42 PM
Go Thunder!!!

TonyR
05-12-2011, 06:42 PM
People often say, "Jordan had Pippen" but I dont think people realize how responsible Jordan was for the success of Pippen.

I think anybody who watched Jordan and the Jordan/Pippen Bulls realize this. But that doesn't change my point that Jordan needed Pippen to win championships. And that's not taking anything away from Jordan, that's just how it works. You can't win by yourself.

epicSocialism4tw
05-12-2011, 06:45 PM
I think anybody who watched Jordan and the Jordan/Pippen Bulls realize this. But that doesn't change my point that Jordan needed Pippen to win championships. And that's not taking anything away from Jordan, that's just how it works. You can't win by yourself.

It wasnt just Pippen that Jordan played with. He played on good teams with a good coach. He was transcendent anyhow and thats why he had a run of basically 6 straight championships. But those were good teams. Rodman, Kerr, Grant, Paxson, Armstrong, Harper, Myers, Wennington, Cartwright...there were good role players and above average-to-great players on those teams.

TonyR
05-12-2011, 06:45 PM
Not really. There was most likely collusion and tampering. It's not a player's or executive's right to do that. Aside from that, I dont think anyone is really saying LeBron's not a great player. But at the same time, he's not without flaw.

LeBron didn't have to stay in Cleveland just because people wanted him to. And there are plenty of people here who refuse to give LeBron any credit. As if Cleveland going from 61-21 to 19-63 doesn't provide enough clarity.

TonyR
05-12-2011, 06:46 PM
But those were good teams.

Exactly.

epicSocialism4tw
05-12-2011, 06:48 PM
LeBron didn't have to stay in Cleveland just because people wanted him to. And there are plenty of people here who refuse to give LeBron any credit. As if Cleveland going from 61-21 to 19-63 doesn't provide enough clarity.

What he wanted to do is what makes him a douche in most peoples' minds. Most people think that his values are those of a petulant spoiled brat with a spine made of noodle, not those of the great NBA players like Jordan, Bird, or even Bryant. Of course he can do what he wants to do, but your actions are what define you. His actions define him as a douche, and rightly so. He may be a douche thats good at basketball (and that fits with the Miami fan just fine), but he's still a douche.

Today's NBA player is a soft, coddled brat. It wont take long for people to turn away from that sport because you can no longer relate to these soft-minded brats who were coddled all through life because they were good at sports.

OrangeSe7en
05-12-2011, 06:52 PM
I think anybody who watched Jordan and the Jordan/Pippen Bulls realize this. But that doesn't change my point that Jordan needed Pippen to win championships. And that's not taking anything away from Jordan, that's just how it works. You can't win by yourself.

My point was that Jordan deserves seperate distinction for being able to mold Pippen and demand greatness from him. It's not like it was someone went out and "got" Jordan a HOF sidekick. To a large extent, Jordan made his own.

TonyR
05-12-2011, 06:53 PM
What he wanted to do is what makes him a douche in most peoples' minds. Most people think that his values are those of a petulant spoiled brat with a spine made of noodle...

I don't disagree. But this doesn't take away from the fact that he's a remarkably talented basketball player who still hasn't reached his full potential.

OrangeCrush2724
05-12-2011, 06:55 PM
[QUOTE=Rulon Velvet Jones;3182783]derp[QUOTE]

What is your point? That some Heat fans show up late? Is that all you got?

Yeah we show up late. Who cares. We have a relaxed life here. Hot girls, beautiful beach, nice weather year long, did I mention really hot girls :twokisses?

Missouribronc
05-12-2011, 06:56 PM
What he wanted to do is what makes him a douche in most peoples' minds. Most people think that his values are those of a petulant spoiled brat with a spine made of noodle, not those of the great NBA players like Jordan, Bird, or even Bryant. Of course he can do what he wants to do, but your actions are what define you. His actions define him as a douche, and rightly so. He may be a douche thats good at basketball (and that fits with the Miami fan just fine), but he's still a douche.

Today's NBA player is a soft, coddled brat. It wont take long for people to turn away from that sport because you can no longer relate to these soft-minded brats who were coddled all through life because they were good at sports.

WTF? He took less money to try and go to a better team. How is that being a spoiled brat?

He spent seven years in Cleveland and it was clear that they weren't going to invest enough into the rest of the team to build a championship-caliber team, so he did what free agents do, went to somewhere better and he even took less money to do it.

In an age where players hold owners hostage for money, this guy took less to try to win. So The Decision rubbed you the wrong way. So what...get over it and grow up.

Your endless tirade against LeBron is stupid.

That said. I hope the Bulls beat the damn Heat.

OrangeCrush2724
05-12-2011, 06:58 PM
LeBron didn't have to stay in Cleveland just because people wanted him to. And there are plenty of people here who refuse to give LeBron any credit. As if Cleveland going from 61-21 to 19-63 doesn't provide enough clarity.

I think the 26(?) straight loss provided all the clarity anybody was looking for.

OrangeSe7en
05-12-2011, 06:59 PM
LeBron didn't have to stay in Cleveland just because people wanted him to. And there are plenty of people here who refuse to give LeBron any credit. As if Cleveland going from 61-21 to 19-63 doesn't provide enough clarity.

You're speaking in general terms but its the how that matters here. You said its his right to leave but not if it isnt done in a way thats not acceptable according to league rules.

gunns
05-12-2011, 06:59 PM
Ray Allen obviously isn't a nobody, but things become difficult when you have a one-armed PG trying to get you the ball. And, beyond that, Allen is no Derrick Rose at this point in his career.

So true and why I knew my Celtics wouldn't make it far. Most of the Celtic stars are no where near what they used to be. But that's what makes the rest of the playoffs a little fun. It will separate the pretenders from the true contenders. That being said, down deep I'm hoping the Heat make it to the finals. It'll bring out a lot of those "passionate" Laker fans from their sulkfest to be haters. I kind of miss them. And I definitely look forward to the wind being taken out of epic's sails when Dallas goes down.

epicSocialism4tw
05-12-2011, 07:01 PM
I don't disagree. But this doesn't take away from the fact that he's a remarkably talented basketball player who still hasn't reached his full potential.

No, he has. He has been in the league for 8 years now. He'll be 27 this year. He is in his prime. He's not like Dirk Nowitzki, where he learns a bevy of new skills every year. At this point LeBron is what he is. That's likely what he'll be for another 2-4 years, at which point his athleticism will have declined and he'll have to adjust his game. He'll probably be a power forward at that point.

epicSocialism4tw
05-12-2011, 07:03 PM
So true and why I knew my Celtics wouldn't make it far. Most of the Celtic stars are no where near what they used to be. But that's what makes the rest of the playoffs a little fun. It will separate the pretenders from the true contenders. That being said, down deep I'm hoping the Heat make it to the finals. It'll bring out a lot of those "passionate" Laker fans from their sulkfest to be haters. I kind of miss them. And I definitely look forward to the wind being taken out of epic's sails when Dallas goes down.

We're playing on house money now. Losing at any point from here forward is just meeting expectation...its not a disappointment. Winning, however...that's a different story.

epicSocialism4tw
05-12-2011, 07:05 PM
WTF? He took less money to try and go to a better team. How is that being a spoiled brat?

He spent seven years in Cleveland and it was clear that they weren't going to invest enough into the rest of the team to build a championship-caliber team, so he did what free agents do, went to somewhere better and he even took less money to do it.

In an age where players hold owners hostage for money, this guy took less to try to win. So The Decision rubbed you the wrong way. So what...get over it and grow up.

Your endless tirade against LeBron is stupid.

That said. I hope the Bulls beat the damn Heat.



Players become legends by carrying franchises to new heights.

LeBron James forfeited that glory for an easier path. He can obviously make that choice because he's an adult and this is the United States of America. But he chose the consequences of that choice. He'll live with them forever.

gunns
05-12-2011, 07:07 PM
We're playing on house money now. Losing at any point from here forward is just meeting expectation...its not a disappointment. Winning, however...that's a different story.

Oh I'm sure winning will be much better, remember we're Bronco fans, we know all about that. But I also am sure that your expectations have grown immensely since Dirk has become "the best player in the playoffs".

SonOfLe-loLang
05-12-2011, 07:11 PM
Players become legends by carrying franchises to new heights.

LeBron James forfeited that glory for an easier path. He can obviously make that choice because he's an adult and this is the United States of America. But he chose the consequences of that choice. He'll live with them forever.

Im sure he's broken up inside.

epicSocialism4tw
05-12-2011, 07:13 PM
Oh I'm sure winning will be much better, remember we're Bronco fans, we know all about that. But I also am sure that your expectations have grown immensely since Dirk has become "the best player in the playoffs".

Not at all. I'm just enjoying another postseason series of one of the best playoff performers in the history of the league. We get at least 4 more games of the German playoff machine. That's enough for me. I got to watch Dirk absolutely make mince meat of Pau Gasol and beat Bryant face to face in the playoffs. I expected the Mavs to lose that series. They didnt. They swept the Lakers instead, stopping the mini-dynasty in its tracks, retiring Phil Jackson, and sending Lakers fans into panic mode about blowing up their team. Where they used to come on here and try to talk all sorts of ridiculousness about how Pau Gasol is better than Nowitzki, now Gasol was so thoroughly destroyed and utterly humiliated by Nowitzki that Laker fan wants desperately to get rid of him!

Life is good.

OrangeSe7en
05-12-2011, 07:13 PM
Im sure he's broken up inside.

Actually, he is. The criticism clearly has bothered him. Same goes for Wade.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-12-2011, 07:14 PM
Actually, he is. The criticism clearly has bothered him. Same goes for Wade.

Sure, but epic's assessment of the situation was a tad dramatic was my point

epicSocialism4tw
05-12-2011, 07:14 PM
Im sure he's broken up inside.

It definitely has effected him. He went from hero to villain overnight and you can see that it has effected him on his face. He carries himself differently now. He hasnt been able to fully accept the villain role. It bothers him.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-12-2011, 07:15 PM
It definitely has effected him. He went from hero to villain overnight and you can see that it has effected him on his face. He carries himself differently now. He hasnt been able to fully accept the villain role. It bothers him.

I dont disagree...but this "he'll have to live with this forevah!" makes it sound like he murdered someone.

OrangeSe7en
05-12-2011, 07:17 PM
Sure, but epic's assessment of the situation was a tad dramatic was my point

Not really. He was voicing a POV that is shared by many and the way he expressed it was spot on.

OrangeSe7en
05-12-2011, 07:22 PM
I dont disagree...but this "he'll have to live with this forevah!" makes it sound like he murdered someone.

Its true. To a lot of people, he can't win even if he wins because what he did and the way he went about it was cowardly. People dont respect him even if he's an awesome player.

epicSocialism4tw
05-12-2011, 07:23 PM
I dont disagree...but this "he'll have to live with this forevah!" makes it sound like he murdered someone.

No, it was a reference to how people's legacies are perceived in light of history. LeBron will always have that "he wasnt good enough to do it on his own terms" asterisk. He'll be looked at as someone who wasnt quite up to Jordan or Bird's level...he wasnt mentally tough enough.

Boobs McGee
05-12-2011, 07:26 PM
WTF? He took less money to try and go to a better team. How is that being a spoiled brat?

He spent seven years in Cleveland and it was clear that they weren't going to invest enough into the rest of the team to build a championship-caliber team, so he did what free agents do, went to somewhere better and he even took less money to do it.

In an age where players hold owners hostage for money, this guy took less to try to win. So The Decision rubbed you the wrong way. So what...get over it and grow up.

Your endless tirade against LeBron is stupid.

That said. I hope the Bulls beat the damn Heat.

Seriously? That's just pure bull****. As much as I hate to disagree with you and (ahem) agree with Drama...Lebron had EVERYTHING he wanted and more. Hand picked players, coaches fired at will, playing AT HOME for an owner that was willing to spend any amount of money on him. Weren't going to invest in the rest of the team??? They brought in piece after piece after piece to try and make it work, and still he left. Follow along: Boozer - screwed them after they went to resign him to a mega deal, bailed and went to Utah. Larry Hughes, Ben wallace, Joe Smith, Wally Szcerbieak, Delonte West, Mo Williams, Shaq, Jamario moon, Antwawn Jamison....all players shuffled in and out to try to make "the king" happy, and to combat the previous years failings in the playoffs. Then, they axed brown, and went after Izzo. None of it was good enough to sign that next extension for that douche. He didn't tell the owner anything about his plans...no, he went ahead and just dropped the bomb with his own ****ing show on national television. **** you cleveland fans. And no, that wasn't an impromptu decision. It was set in motion after the 2008 olympics, but he didn't have the balls to say anything. Not to mention the poor sportsmanship after getting played off the court in that game 5, the crybaby attitude in general, and numerous other little "signs" (that gif of him purposely throwing his warmups one after the other away from the equipment guy is just pathetic) that he's a raging narcissist, firmly cement him in douchebag lore to anyone not wearing a Miami jersey right now.

Is he an incredible basketball player? Sure he is. But don't try and kid yourself, the guy is a douchenozzle.

epicSocialism4tw
05-12-2011, 07:29 PM
Watching LeBron quit on Cleveland fans in the playoffs last season was embarrassing to watch.

TDmvp
05-12-2011, 07:46 PM
You forgot "Homie dont play dat".

My favorites: "Wha' Happened?!?","Iiiiiiiiiiii dont think so!", and "Ive got a wittwe wed wagon!"
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l27hgp8cLP1qzhiqwo1_500.png

:thumbsup: What you said...