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Rascal
02-25-2011, 11:19 AM
I swear to god they need to get rid of JR Smith. He will kill this team. he is now the only one not looking to pass first. when he is hot he is hot and will take a game over, but he is now a weak link on a team looking to play as a "team"

Disagree. Keep JR. Trade/dump Harrington.

broncswin
02-25-2011, 11:25 AM
Disagree. Keep JR. Trade/dump Harrington.

AGREE^5

Karenin
02-25-2011, 03:45 PM
You can't trade him or dump him. He has like 5 year, 35 million dollar contract.

bombay
02-25-2011, 03:50 PM
harrington did his level best to shoot the Nuggets out of the game last night. His shot selection couldn't be worse.

epicSocialism4tw
02-25-2011, 03:58 PM
No more game winning shot attempts for LeBron. That was horrible!!!!! It was a tough shot, but he got a pretty good look. How the hell did he miss that shot by so much? The ball didn't even hit the rim. D Wade is going to have to take all the last second shots from here on out, because LeBron isn't clutch.

That shot hit the bottom of the backboard like a medicine ball.

bfoflcommish
02-25-2011, 04:19 PM
Disagree. Keep JR. Trade/dump Harrington.


AGREE^5



dont get me wrong JR has talent, but in an offense thats built around defense 1st and passing to open man instead of jacking up shot after shot JR isnt exactly the model player

RhymesayersDU
02-25-2011, 11:30 PM
dont get me wrong JR has talent, but in an offense thats built around defense 1st and passing to open man instead of jacking up shot after shot JR isnt exactly the model player

I'm so torn on JR. Because on the one hand, I agree with you. In fact, sometimes I cringe when he makes his wild shots, because I know that it will only encourage him.

On the other hand, at this moment in time I still the think the guy is probably the best scorer on the team. Now with that said, I don't even think he played in OT tonight, which as I'm writing this the Nuggets just lost. So the question is, what good is a scorer you can't trust to play in OT?

A lot of issues here. He's a FA this summer, so we'll see if somebody offers him a ton of money. I'm not opposed to signing him, but the price has got to be right.

bfoflcommish
02-25-2011, 11:35 PM
I'm so torn on JR. Because on the one hand, I agree with you. In fact, sometimes I cringe when he makes his wild shots, because I know that it will only encourage him.

On the other hand, at this moment in time I still the think the guy is probably the best scorer on the team. Now with that said, I don't even think he played in OT tonight, which as I'm writing this the Nuggets just lost. So the question is, what good is a scorer you can't trust to play in OT?

A lot of issues here. He's a FA this summer, so we'll see if somebody offers him a ton of money. I'm not opposed to signing him, but the price has got to be right.

he didnt play final 4 mins of reg NOR a tick in OT. Karl seen he wasnt on either. when not on he is a HUGE liability

RhymesayersDU
02-25-2011, 11:45 PM
I don't disagree with that. Like I said, the fact that he can't be trusted in crunch time says a lot... But still, I feel like he could be an asset. Or maybe he'll never get it. Tough call. Will depend on the price.

epicSocialism4tw
02-25-2011, 11:52 PM
I don't disagree with that. Like I said, the fact that he can't be trusted in crunch time says a lot... But still, I feel like he could be an asset. Or maybe he'll never get it. Tough call. Will depend on the price.

Smith doesnt fit in with this group. This is relatively young group of Denver players, and Smith would need to assume a leadership role which he simply is not capable of doing. He's more suited to the type of role where he can be inconsistent and duck in and out of the spotlight.

Its a shame because that guy has as much talent as any 2 guard in the league (yes, ANY 2-guard...including Bryant), but he's less mature than Ron Artest.

I think that Denver is better off cutting him loose and letting this new core of young guys work to create names for themselves without the influence of someone like Smith around.

bombay
02-26-2011, 12:44 PM
See if you can name this player: he plays for an elite NBA team. Over their last 10 games, he's averaged 20 minutes, 4.6 points, 4 rebounds, and is shooting 94% from the field.

bombay
02-26-2011, 03:55 PM
Colorado beating Texas by 9 with 3:30 to go.

RhymesayersDU
02-26-2011, 04:09 PM
See if you can name this player: he plays for an elite NBA team. Over their last 10 games, he's averaged 20 minutes, 4.6 points, 4 rebounds, and is shooting 94% from the field.

I don't know, but if I had to guess I'd say somebody for the Spurs.

bombay
02-26-2011, 04:17 PM
I don't know, but if I had to guess I'd say somebody for the Spurs.

Actually, Erick Dampier. Picked him up off the scrap heap and he's doing all the dirty work for them. Hard picks, blocks out on the boards, stuff that needs to be done. Surprising as hell.


Colorado just beat texas.

RhymesayersDU
02-26-2011, 04:20 PM
See I knew it'd be a center, with the high FG %. I was going to say Haslem from Miami, but then thought that the Spurs always were known for having a center who isn't anything special.

rovolution
02-26-2011, 04:22 PM
Actually, Erick Dampier. Picked him up off the scrap heap and he's doing all the dirty work for them. Hard picks, blocks out on the boards, stuff that needs to be done. Surprising as hell.


Colorado just beat texas.

Alec Burks with 33 pts!

I was in a class my Junior year with Alec Burks!

bombay
02-26-2011, 04:23 PM
See I knew it'd be a center, with the high FG %. I was going to say Haslem from Miami, but then thought that the Spurs always were known for having a center who isn't anything special.

Yeah. Who knew Erick Dampier would end up being a good pickup? He's doing all of the dirty work that Dallas didn't get from him when he was being paid the big bucks.

RhymesayersDU
02-26-2011, 04:28 PM
Yeah. Who knew Erick Dampier would end up being a good pickup? He's doing all of the dirty work that Dallas didn't get from him when he was being paid the big bucks.

Well he was doing all those things, but when you're getting paid the big bucks and only averaging that same 4.6 points a game, it looks pretty poor.

Dampier has and always will be a stiff, but now he's getting paid more appropriately.

AZorange1
02-26-2011, 04:34 PM
Smith doesnt fit in with this group. This is relatively young group of Denver players, and Smith would need to assume a leadership role which he simply is not capable of doing. He's more suited to the type of role where he can be inconsistent and duck in and out of the spotlight.

Its a shame because that guy has as much talent as any 2 guard in the league (yes, ANY 2-guard...including Bryant), but he's less mature than Ron Artest.

I think that Denver is better off cutting him loose and letting this new core of young guys work to create names for themselves without the influence of someone like Smith around.

Totally agree. The young man has had plenty of time to get his sh-- together and mature. He's either on fire or giving the game away with his poor shot selection. You miss 3's it should occur to you that maybe it's not your night and start dishing it off to the guys that already have 26 points because they're on.

bombay
02-26-2011, 04:49 PM
Well he was doing all those things, but when you're getting paid the big bucks and only averaging that same 4.6 points a game, it looks pretty poor.

Dampier has and always will be a stiff, but now he's getting paid more appropriately.

Stiff? Sure. Pay appropriate? Sure.

Very much appreciated by his coach and teammates in the situation he finds himself in? Sure.

epicSocialism4tw
02-26-2011, 10:07 PM
Yeah. Who knew Erick Dampier would end up being a good pickup? He's doing all of the dirty work that Dallas didn't get from him when he was being paid the big bucks.

LOL

Thats exactly what he was doing in Dallas.

The problem with Dampier is that he cant catch and finish and he commits stupid fouls. He's one of the best offensive rebounders in the NBA, he's a solid overall rebounder, he's a solid post defender on big guys, and he sets good picks.

Missouribronc
02-27-2011, 06:09 PM
Watched some of the Minnesota-Golden State game earlier. That was entertaining. No defense, whatsoever, but still entertaining. And Kevin Love, wow. That was really the first time I've watched him. I think he had 37 and 23. That's insane.

bombay
02-27-2011, 06:14 PM
Should be an interesting game in Miami tonight with the Heat and Knicks strapping it on.

bombay
02-27-2011, 06:42 PM
Carmelo with a sensational 12 point 1st quarter!

bombay
02-27-2011, 06:52 PM
Oh, man, I just realized I'm not going to see Anthony Carter at Costco anymore. He's a really nice dude.

bombay
02-27-2011, 07:15 PM
What a great half of basketball! this is setting up to be a fantastic finish.

bombay
02-27-2011, 08:12 PM
Sloppy, lousy, basketball. Thought this might be an intense game.

maven
02-27-2011, 08:13 PM
Heat are lacking PG/C. We'll see if they can pick up someone who's bought out.

epicSocialism4tw
02-27-2011, 08:14 PM
Sloppy, lousy, basketball. Thought this might be an intense game.

The Knicks are basically a new team. Theyre playing a new style incorporating new players. This game wont be tidy.

As for the Heat, they have underperformed against good teams all year, so this isnt unusual.

epicSocialism4tw
02-27-2011, 08:16 PM
Heat are lacking PG/C. We'll see if they can pick up someone who's bought out.

As if three all-stars (two of which are perennial MVP candidates and top-5 players) arent enough? Ha!

When will these people quit making excuses?

maven
02-27-2011, 08:22 PM
As if three all-stars (two of which are perennial MVP candidates and top-5 players) arent enough? Ha!

When will these people quit making excuses?

Heat are lacking a PG who can hit the open shot. The rotation of Dampier, Z, Anthony isn't working out. Mike Miller has been injured all season.

The Heat have the 3rd best record in the NBA and only 1 game behind the Celtics for the #1 seed. The Heat have only played 59 games together. It's not excuses, but they can definitely get better.

epicSocialism4tw
02-27-2011, 08:27 PM
Heat are lacking a PG who can hit the open shot. The rotation of Dampier, Z, Anthony isn't working out. Mike Miller has been injured all season.

The Heat have the 3rd best record in the NBA and only 1 game behind the Celtics for the #1 seed. The Heat have only played 59 games together. It's not excuses, but they can definitely get better.

This is a stars league. Stars win games, not role players.

The Heat arent winning games because LeBron James is a choker, and Wade has moved aside and let him take the team.

That was quite a shot he hit the other night...the one that hit the bottom of the backboard.

epicSocialism4tw
02-27-2011, 08:30 PM
Chauncey showing LeBron how to hit a big shot.

bombay
02-27-2011, 08:31 PM
Haha! Got to love it when it's chauncey.

Missouribronc
02-27-2011, 08:31 PM
Chauncey is the bigger loss. That man is the best basketball player ever to come from Denver.

epicSocialism4tw
02-27-2011, 08:35 PM
Chauncey is the bigger loss. That man is the best basketball player ever to come from Denver.

Plus, he's a good dude who loves to play basketball...and you can see it in the way he takes care of himself and prepares. I like to pull for those guys...especially in the era of the flavor clown.

epicSocialism4tw
02-27-2011, 08:38 PM
I betcha Wade or Bosh hit the game winner here.

epicSocialism4tw
02-27-2011, 08:40 PM
Good gosh LeBron. Getting blocked by Stoudemire? Really?

epicSocialism4tw
02-27-2011, 08:41 PM
Pat Riley looks furious.

SoCalBronco
02-27-2011, 08:41 PM
LeBron missed again.

epicSocialism4tw
02-27-2011, 08:43 PM
Why the heck arent they giving the ball to Wade?

LeBron is not a clutch player.

maven
02-27-2011, 08:53 PM
Good job Spoelstra, you have Dwayne f'n Wade to shoot that shot. The ****!

epicSocialism4tw
02-27-2011, 08:58 PM
Good job Spoelstra, you have Dwayne f'n Wade to shoot that shot. The ****!

That wasnt Spoelstra's fault. It was LeBron James' fault.

He missed two clutch shots inside of 12 seconds. One he got blocked by Stou_emire of all people (no d), and then he bricked a game-tying three.

LeBron just isnt a clutch player. Wade needs to seize control of that team from him or they'll continue to get beat by the good teams.

Have they even beaten a good team yet?

maven
02-27-2011, 09:04 PM
That wasnt Spoelstra's fault. It was LeBron James' fault.

He missed two clutch shots inside of 12 seconds. One he got blocked by Stou_emire of all people (no d), and then he bricked a game-tying three.

LeBron just isnt a clutch player. Wade needs to seize control of that team from him or they'll continue to get beat by the good teams.

Have they even beaten a good team yet?

Hate that f'n coach! Lakers, Magic, OKC...

maven
02-27-2011, 09:05 PM
Like I said, this Heat team has problems...

epicSocialism4tw
02-27-2011, 09:17 PM
Like I said, this Heat team has problems...

Yes it does...and they are called "LeBron James".

maven
02-27-2011, 10:04 PM
Yes it does...and they are called "LeBron James".

Okay. That's good to know.

TDmvp
02-27-2011, 11:06 PM
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT2w_oGr2HiJ_8MKnV5_5pLcNf6Z29eS dgIe18G_IzB_6ZFAfZQ&t=1

epicSocialism4tw
02-27-2011, 11:28 PM
Okay. That's good to know.

Its hard to believe that Wade rolled over for that dude. Wade is the guy with the skins on the wall.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-27-2011, 11:47 PM
Yes it does...and they are called "LeBron James".

Unreal. So the best player in the game is the heat's main problem. OK, got it. What was the heat's record last year again? And ummm...how the Cavs lookin this season?

TDmvp
02-28-2011, 12:01 AM
Unreal. So the best player in the game is the heat's main problem. OK, got it. What was the heat's record last year again? And ummm...how the Cavs lookin this season?

Dude ... He's not the best player in the league , and one could argue not even the best player on his team...

SonOfLe-loLang
02-28-2011, 12:04 AM
Dude ... He's not the best player in the league , and one could argue not even the best player on his team...

Not only is he the best player in the league this year, i think he has been for some time.

epicSocialism4tw
02-28-2011, 01:13 AM
Unreal. So the best player in the game is the heat's main problem. OK, got it. What was the heat's record last year again? And ummm...how the Cavs lookin this season?

LeBron just isnt a guy who comes through in the clutch. He's as dumb as a brick. He thinks that people will just get out of his way and let him score because he's entitled to win.

Wade needs to realize that.

In that huddle, Wade needs to say "this is my shot" and just ignore LeBrick. If Wade cant get a good look, then you kick it to LeBrick. When he starts converting them, then he starts getting the ball back.

I tell you what, Pat Riley sure looked fed up with LeBrick's antics down the stretch last night. He looked like he was thinking of guys who he could call to break his knees.

TonyR
02-28-2011, 06:51 AM
Hollinger's PER ranks LeBron #1 in the NBA.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics

TonyR
02-28-2011, 06:53 AM
This is a stars league. Stars win games, not role players.


You clearly don't understand NBA basketball. Yes, the "stars" are the key but you have to have good role players and play good defense. PG is extremely important. Michael Jordan doesn't have all those rings without the contributions of role players on all those Bulls teams. LeBron, Wade and Bosh can't win games on their own.

epicSocialism4tw
02-28-2011, 07:03 AM
You clearly don't understand NBA basketball. Yes, the "stars" are the key but you have to have good role players and play good defense. PG is extremely important. Michael Jordan doesn't have all those rings without the contributions of role players on all those Bulls teams. LeBron, Wade and Bosh can't win games on their own.

Michael Jordan didnt have Wade and Bosh.

As far as role players, Miller, Dampier, Chalmers, and co. are more than enough.

These clowns talked dynasty when they met up, and dynasty is what should be expected. Anything less is a failure.

TonyR
02-28-2011, 07:14 AM
These clowns talked dynasty when they met up, and dynasty is what should be expected. Anything less is a failure.

People that understand NBA basketball knew that the Heat would have issues if they couldn't put together a solid enough group of supporting players and depth. This isn't a surprise.

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 07:14 AM
Michael Jordan didnt have Wade and Bosh.

Really? Do you know who Scottie Pippen is? Horace Grant? Craig Hodges?

Jordan is the greatest player ever, but don't sit around and kid yourself that he did it all on his own, because he didn't.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
02-28-2011, 10:43 AM
Dude ... He's not the best player in the league , and one could argue not even the best player on his team...

Correct.

Last I checked, the best player in the league was still wearing purple and gold.

Rulon Velvet Jones
02-28-2011, 12:09 PM
Best way to play along with this "best player in the league" funtime-debate. If you're building a team right now, who are you taking? Age is a consideration. No-brainer, I'm taking LeBron. I didn't like that BS he pulled last summer, but the guy is an absolute beast.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
02-28-2011, 12:53 PM
Best way to play along with this "best player in the league" funtime-debate. If you're building a team right now, who are you taking? Age is a consideration. No-brainer, I'm taking LeBron. I didn't like that BS he pulled last summer, but the guy is an absolute beast.

I'll take the proven winner, i.e. the guy who can best help me win a championship right now (and quite possibly over the next couple seasons) over the guy who can fill up the box score but who flames out in the post season every year.

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 01:12 PM
Best way to play along with this "best player in the league" funtime-debate. If you're building a team right now, who are you taking? Age is a consideration. No-brainer, I'm taking LeBron. I didn't like that BS he pulled last summer, but the guy is an absolute beast.

Kevin Durant.

TDmvp
02-28-2011, 02:34 PM
Correct.

Last I checked, the best player in the league was still wearing purple and gold.

Yup ... And if you was starting a team now and could have anyone to start the team around I bet some team would take Kevin Durant over LeBrick...

Kevin is 22 and a FREAK ... 4 years younger than James.

epicSocialism4tw
02-28-2011, 02:40 PM
Really? Do you know who Scottie Pippen is? Horace Grant? Craig Hodges?

Jordan is the greatest player ever, but don't sit around and kid yourself that he did it all on his own, because he didn't.

Ha!

Horace Grant and Craig Hodges? Really?

LOL

epicSocialism4tw
02-28-2011, 02:40 PM
Yup ... And if you was starting a team now and could have anyone to start the team around I bet some team would take Kevin Durant over LeBrick...

Kevin is 22 and a FREAK ... 4 years younger than James.

I like Durant too.

Give me Durant and Rose. Those other flavor clowns can piss up a rope.

TDmvp
02-28-2011, 02:49 PM
Ha!

Horace Grant and Craig Hodges? Really?

LOL


Pippen , Rodman , Harper , Kerr (look up his 3 point %) Kukoc (at that point the best foreign player in the league.

Dude , Jordan is best I've ever seen , but don't kid yourself that those teams wasn't loaded ... Remember now they went 52-27 in 95 WITHOUT M.J.

They was way more loaded then people remember , my best friend at that time used to goto a bunch Bulls games and I'd tag along sometimes , and it was his fav team and I hated them and MJ , even tho I respected them... I was a Pacers fan.

They was ubar loaded tho.

TDmvp
02-28-2011, 02:51 PM
I like Durant too.

Give me Durant and Rose. Those other flavor clowns can piss up a rope.

and Yup if you was starting a team those 2 would most likely be 2 that people picked above James ...



I'd rather have Rondo than James heheh ...

epicSocialism4tw
02-28-2011, 02:57 PM
Pippen , Rodman , Harper , Kerr (look up his 3 point %) Kukoc (at that point the best foreign player in the league.

Dude , Jordan is best I've ever seen , but don't kid yourself that those teams wasn't loaded ... Remember now they went 52-27 in 95 WITHOUT M.J.

They was way more loaded then people remember , my best friend at that time used to goto a bunch Bulls games and I'd tag along sometimes , and it was his fav team and I hated them and MJ , even tho I respected them... I was a Pacers fan.

They was ubar loaded tho.

Unlike these kids that are all "Poor LeBron, Wade, Bosh, and Miller need help!!!!" I watched every game Michael Jordan ever played.

Pippen was very good. He was alot like Shawn Marion was when Marion was in his prime with the Suns, though Pippen wasnt nearly as good of a shot blocker or rebounder, but Pippen was a better passer. Pippen was a "toolbox" player like Marion in that he was like a super glue guy. Pippen wasnt anywhere near the player that Wade is though. Its really not even close. Mentioning Grant in the same sentance as Bosh is funny. Rodman was better than Grant, but Rodman couldnt score to save his life. He was a rebound machine and a good post defender.

I would say that Pippen was better than Bosh, but he wasnt better than Wade.

vancejohnson82
02-28-2011, 03:00 PM
Well, help is on the way for the Heat

Bibby is reportedly taking his talents to South Beach

Jason in LA
02-28-2011, 03:01 PM
****Edit If anybody read my last post, it was placed in the wrong thread. My bad. ;D

epicSocialism4tw
02-28-2011, 03:03 PM
and Yup if you was starting a team those 2 would most likely be 2 that people picked above James ...



I'd rather have Rondo than James heheh ...

I forgot to mention Griffin.

I remember telling all these goobers about Griffin back in the day. Being an OU nerd, I got the up-close and personal before anyone else did. I would tell people that he was somewhere between Charles Barkley, dominque, and Jordan, but with Tim Duncan's attitude, and nobody would believe me because he hadnt been hyped up like LeBrick, Howard, or the other first picks. He went about his business in Oklahoma and thats too far out of the northeastern basketball radar.

epicSocialism4tw
02-28-2011, 03:03 PM
Well, help is on the way for the Heat

Bibby is reportedly taking his talents to South Beach

When Bibby doesnt make the difference, they'll make excuses about him too.

TDmvp
02-28-2011, 03:05 PM
Unlike these kids that are all "Poor LeBron, Wade, Bosh, and Miller need help!!!!" I watched every game Michael Jordan ever played.


Yea If you aint old enough to have watched M.J. and not just highlights you have no clue how much better than Lebrick he was.


M.J. willed teams to win . Never has a player caused more fear than MJ.

You could just be killing the Bulls and he would just take over a game like no one has before on since , including Kobe.

Never did I have that feeling watching someone I didn't want to win play , where my team would be winning and I just knew it was coming and feared it literally , M.J. was going to go nutzo and win it alone and you just knew it.


There is no comparing M.J. to anyone that i've seen.

Rulon Velvet Jones
02-28-2011, 03:08 PM
Well, help is on the way for the Heat

Bibby is reportedly taking his talents to South Beach

Where's the help? Bibby isn't it.

epicSocialism4tw
02-28-2011, 03:15 PM
Yea If you aint old enough to have watched M.J. and not just highlights you have no clue how much better than Lebrick he was.


M.J. willed teams to win . Never has a player caused more fear than MJ.

You could just be killing the Bulls and he would just take over a game like no one has before on since , including Kobe.

Never did I have that feeling watching someone I didn't want to win play , where my team would be winning and I just knew it was coming and feared it literally , M.J. was going to go nutzo and win it alone and you just knew it.


There is no comparing M.J. to anyone that i've seen.

Kobe tries to capture that killer instinct, but he just doesnt have all of it that Jordan had. Jordan also had a measure of power in his game to go with the grace. He was a freak athlete who worked his butt off in honing his skills to be the best. He was also a jerk and a scumbag off the court though. People think that he was forced to retire the first time because Stern knew he was gambling on his own games and didnt want it to become a controversy...it would have destroyed the NBA.

The thing that I dont like about Jordan now that I'm older is that he pretty much ruined the competitiveness of the league. He got special calls that nobody else got. This pretty much ruined the chances of guys like Karl Malone and John Stockton. After Stern saw the success of Jordan, he wanted to recreate Jordan any way he could. So he literally changed the rules of the game. He instituted a major rule change that no longer allowed perimeter defenders to touch the player with the ball. So a guy like Dwight Howard gets beat to snot while LeBrick gets a free ride to the basket.

TDmvp
02-28-2011, 03:22 PM
Kobe tries to capture that killer instinct, but he just doesnt have all of it that Jordan had. Jordan also had a measure of power in his game to go with the grace. He was a freak athlete who worked his butt off in honing his skills to be the best. He was also a jerk and a scumbag off the court though. People think that he was forced to retire the first time because Stern knew he was gambling on his own games and didnt want it to become a controversy...it would have destroyed the NBA.

The thing that I dont like about Jordan now that I'm older is that he pretty much ruined the competitiveness of the league. He got special calls that nobody else got. This pretty much ruined the chances of guys like Karl Malone and John Stockton. After Stern saw the success of Jordan, he wanted to recreate Jordan any way he could. So he literally changed the rules of the game. He instituted a major rule change that no longer allowed perimeter defenders to touch the player with the ball. So a guy like Dwight Howard gets beat to snot while LeBrick gets a free ride to the basket.



Well said , and Pretty much how I feel about M.J. on most points ... Especially how he was in his personal life and off the court stuff.

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 03:53 PM
Yea If you aint old enough to have watched M.J. and not just highlights you have no clue how much better than Lebrick he was.


M.J. willed teams to win . Never has a player caused more fear than MJ.

You could just be killing the Bulls and he would just take over a game like no one has before on since , including Kobe.

Never did I have that feeling watching someone I didn't want to win play , where my team would be winning and I just knew it was coming and feared it literally , M.J. was going to go nutzo and win it alone and you just knew it.


There is no comparing M.J. to anyone that i've seen.

You're romanticizing Jordan a lot. Yes, he was the greatest player who ever lived. Yes, he remains the greatest player to ever live. Yes, he willed his team to a lot of wins. But he had a hell of a team around him.

During the Championship years, Scottie Pippen averaged 20 pts, 7 rebounds, five assists and two steals a night. Horace Grant (First three championships) averaged 13 and 9, and had 1.2 blocks per night.

LeBron is the best player in the game today. He's not Jordan. He never will be Jordan, but he is the best player in the game today. And every player needs players around him to win a championship.

As far as the "LeBrick" comments by DramaLlama...statisticians disagree.
http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

TDmvp
02-28-2011, 04:02 PM
You're romanticizing Jordan a lot. Yes, he was the greatest player who ever lived. Yes, he remains the greatest player to ever live. Yes, he willed his team to a lot of wins. But he had a hell of a team around him.

During the Championship years, Scottie Pippen averaged 20 pts, 7 rebounds, five assists and two steals a night. Horace Grant (First three championships) averaged 13 and 9, and had 1.2 blocks per night.

LeBron is the best player in the game today. He's not Jordan. He never will be Jordan, but he is the best player in the game today. And every player needs players around him to win a championship.

As far as the "LeBrick" comments by DramaLlama...statisticians disagree.
http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm




One of my post earlier in the thread , about how loaded those Bulls teams was when someone said they wasn't...

Pippen , Rodman , Harper , Kerr (look up his 3 point %) Kukoc (at that point the best foreign player in the league.

Dude , Jordan is best I've ever seen , but don't kid yourself that those teams wasn't loaded ... Remember now they went 52-27 in 95 WITHOUT M.J.

They was way more loaded then people remember , my best friend at that time used to goto a bunch Bulls games and I'd tag along sometimes , and it was his fav team and I hated them and MJ , even tho I respected them... I was a Pacers fan.

They was ubar loaded tho.



I actually think me and you pretty much agree dead on heheh ...

SonOfLe-loLang
02-28-2011, 04:07 PM
Unlike these kids that are all "Poor LeBron, Wade, Bosh, and Miller need help!!!!" I watched every game Michael Jordan ever played.

Pippen was very good. He was alot like Shawn Marion was when Marion was in his prime with the Suns, though Pippen wasnt nearly as good of a shot blocker or rebounder, but Pippen was a better passer. Pippen was a "toolbox" player like Marion in that he was like a super glue guy. Pippen wasnt anywhere near the player that Wade is though. Its really not even close. Mentioning Grant in the same sentance as Bosh is funny. Rodman was better than Grant, but Rodman couldnt score to save his life. He was a rebound machine and a good post defender.

I would say that Pippen was better than Bosh, but he wasnt better than Wade.

This Pippen is like Sean Marion argument again? ITS ABSURD! Scottie Pippen has to be the most underappreciated player of our generation. As another poster said, the year Jordan "retired," Pippen led that team to 50 wins and within a hubert davis foul of the Eastern Conference Finals. Marion would lead his team to like 30 friggin wins. All Marion's stats were inflated because of the Phoenix offense.

And LeBron james is a beast. Look at the Cavs this year...this sorry team had the best record in the NBA last seeason. And ummm..whats the difference?

Also, Pippen understood his role more than Wade does and Pippen was great without the ball...which Wade isn't. I thought this marriage was kind of retarded from the beginning because both need the ball in their hands. Obviously Miami is playing good basketball, but I still think Bron would have been better served on the Knicks.

By the way, aside from Bron/Bosh/Wade...the rest of those guys are washed up or d-leaguers. It'd help if they got troy murphy and bibby though...which they might.

epicSocialism4tw
02-28-2011, 04:09 PM
This Pippen is like Sean Marion argument again? ITS ABSURD! Scottie Pippen has to be the most underappreciated player of our generation. As another poster said, the year Jordan "retired," Pippen led that team to 50 wins and within a hubert davis foul of the Eastern Conference Finals. Marion would lead his team to like 30 friggin wins. All Marion's stats were inflated because of the Phoenix offense.

And LeBron james is a beast. Look at the Cavs this year...this sorry team had the best record in the NBA last seeason. And ummm..whats the difference?

Go look at their statistics.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-28-2011, 04:11 PM
Go look at their statistics.

Did you read what i said about inflated Stats in the phoenix offense?

Karenin
02-28-2011, 04:16 PM
Correct.

Last I checked, the best player in the league was still wearing purple and gold.

Sorry, Gasol isn't the best player in the league. And no one else on the Lakers is even in the top ten, so I don't know who else you could be talking about.

Tombstone RJ
02-28-2011, 04:22 PM
There should be a book written about the affects of Jordan on the NBA. The NBA changed because of Jordan, and not in a good way. There's two NBA's IMHO: The NBA before Michael Jordon, and the NBA after Michael Jordon and the pre Jordon NBA was a hellava lot better than the post Jordan NBA.

It was much more of a team sport pre-Jordon but you still had stars. After Jordon, it's not so much a team sport as a superstar sport with a support cast. The team is built around 1 player (see Kobe and the Fakers).

I hate it. It's an abomination to the actual game of basketball. And now, you have the superstars dictating where they are going to play. Ad to that the fact that ESPN is the hype machine behind the NBA and IMHO, the whole league should be dismantled, starting with the corrupted referees and how the games are officiated.

The NBA is a joke.

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 04:28 PM
Go look at their statistics.

Oh, I love the stat game. BRB.

epicSocialism4tw
02-28-2011, 04:32 PM
There should be a book written about the affects of Jordan on the NBA. The NBA changed because of Jordan, and not in a good way. There's two NBA's IMHO: The NBA before Michael Jordon, and the NBA after Michael Jordon and the pre Jordon NBA was a hellava lot better than the post Jordan NBA.

It was much more of a team sport pre-Jordon but you still had stars. After Jordon, it's not so much a team sport as a superstar sport with a support cast. The team is built around 1 player (see Kobe and the Fakers).

I hate it. It's an abomination to the actual game of basketball. And now, you have the superstars dictating where they are going to play. Ad to that the fact that ESPN is the hype machine behind the NBA and IMHO, the whole league should be dismantled, starting with the corrupted referees and how the games are officiated.

The NBA is a joke.

Nailed it.

We must be about the same age. Caught the mid-to-late 80's through the modern game. Saw the Jordan Rules change the league for the worse. Saw players go from being win-at-all-cost competitors to spoiled wannabe rap stars who think they are entitled to have wins given to them.

You think that Magic would have wanted to team up with Bird so that they could beat the little sisters of the poor? HECK no. Magic wanted to serve that guy up on a platter. Same goes for Bird. Same goes for Bill Russell.

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 04:59 PM
Age 25-31 for both players (The seven seasons that encompassed Pippen's title run with the Bulls, amazingly it was his prime).

Regular Season
Pippen - 20 Pts, 7.4 Reb, 6 Ast, 2.25 Stls, .9 Blks
Marion - 17 Pts, 9.6 Reb, 1.9 Ast, 1.76 Stls, 1.3 Blks

So, I can buy Marion being a poor-man's Pippen during those years. Marion with a few more rebounds, of course it was in a much different style of play (we'll go into that later), but Pippen with much more assists, which is the difference. Pippen was not only a scorer, but also a facilitator.

Playoffs during those same years
Pippen - 19.6 Pts, 8 Reb, 5.5 Ast.
Marion - 17.48 Pts, 10.6 Reb, 1.4 Ast.

Still somewhat comparable, but Pippen is clearly the better player.

Now, the kicker, Marion has absolutely hit a wall not in the Phoenix system. Even the last two years of those statistics above, Age 30 and Age 31, Marion has dropped from 17 and 9 to 12 and 7 per game, while Pippen was still putting up 20 and 6.5 each night, while still doling out 6 assists a night.

OK, after looking at their prime years, I will admit that Marion is a poor-man's Pippen in the stat book.

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 05:08 PM
You think that Magic would have wanted to team up with Bird so that they could beat the little sisters of the poor? HECK no. Magic wanted to serve that guy up on a platter. Same goes for Bird. Same goes for Bill Russell.

This is such crap.

Johnson didn't HAVE to team up with Bird because he was drafted to a team with...Worthy, Jabbar

Bird didn't HAVE to team up with Johnson because he was drafted to a team with...McHale, Dennis Johnson, Parish/

Great dynasties in basketball are built off of multiple HOF performers playing on the same team for multiple years. But, suddenly LeBron, Wade and Bosh have ruined the league? I just don't buy it.

Even Bill Russell had Bob Cousy, John Havlicek and K.C. Jones...

SonOfLe-loLang
02-28-2011, 05:19 PM
This is such crap.

Johnson didn't HAVE to team up with Bird because he was drafted to a team with...Worthy, Jabbar

Bird didn't HAVE to team up with Johnson because he was drafted to a team with...McHale, Dennis Johnson, Parish/

Great dynasties in basketball are built off of multiple HOF performers playing on the same team for multiple years. But, suddenly LeBron, Wade and Bosh have ruined the league? I just don't buy it.

Even Bill Russell had Bob Cousy, John Havlicek and K.C. Jones...

Not to mention, Boston just did this TWO years ago. But for some reason what they did is admirable, while what Miami did is killing the league....dont get it. The one thing i will say is that I'd reallllly rather see Lebron have his own team. He really shoulda been a knick.

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 05:27 PM
Not to mention, Boston just did this TWO years ago. But for some reason what they did is admirable, while what Miami did is killing the league....dont get it. The one thing i will say is that I'd reallllly rather see Lebron have his own team. He really shoulda been a knick.

The idea of three great players playing on the same team creating a dynasty effect in the NBA goes back to the beginning of the game. It's not a new concept. It's just the free agency part of it that makes it new.

Teams don't have to scout as well, so they don't have to draft three HOFers to have a dynasty anymore. They simply have to scout current players and have the assets, whether it be financially or in trade value, to go get those assets to acquire three top-tier talents.

Cito Pelon
02-28-2011, 06:47 PM
You're romanticizing Jordan a lot. Yes, he was the greatest player who ever lived. Yes, he remains the greatest player to ever live. Yes, he willed his team to a lot of wins. But he had a hell of a team around him.

During the Championship years, Scottie Pippen averaged 20 pts, 7 rebounds, five assists and two steals a night. Horace Grant (First three championships) averaged 13 and 9, and had 1.2 blocks per night.

LeBron is the best player in the game today. He's not Jordan. He never will be Jordan, but he is the best player in the game today. And every player needs players around him to win a championship.

As far as the "LeBrick" comments by DramaLlama...statisticians disagree.
http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Jordan got so many good calls for him that got him to the free throw line - which he converted. About 1/3 of his points came from free throws.

Conversely, Jordan could hack the opposing player and not get called for a foul.

The NBA is a joke. The officiating is bush league. They call traveling once a game and god knows when they'll call it. They call palming the ball once a game and god knows when they'll call it.

Both of those infractions to the basic rules of basketball are violated constantly. The NBA today is a caricature of real basketball.

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 07:02 PM
Jordan got so many good calls for him that got him to the free throw line - which he converted. About 1/3 of his points came from free throws.

Conversely, Jordan could hack the opposing player and not get called for a foul.

The NBA is a joke. The officiating is bush league. They call traveling once a game and god knows when they'll call it. They call palming the ball once a game and god knows when they'll call it.

Both of those infractions to the basic rules of basketball are violated constantly. The NBA today is a caricature of real basketball.

So don't watch.

I enjoy it.

Cito Pelon
02-28-2011, 07:08 PM
So don't watch.

I enjoy it.

That's fine with me. I've seen the deterioration of real basketball, but some peope still enjoy it.

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 07:18 PM
Nuggets playing really, really bad to start out this one tonight against the Hawks.

vancejohnson82
02-28-2011, 07:19 PM
Nets playing a doozy against the Suns

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 07:22 PM
Nets playing a doozy against the Suns

That five second call was atrocious (meaning, just plain stupid on Hill's part). Morrow has been clutch.

vancejohnson82
02-28-2011, 07:25 PM
That five second call was atrocious (meaning, just plain stupid on Hill's part). Morrow has been clutch.

he's the one guy that is really going to benefit from the Williams' acquisition...he'll put up a crapload of threes for the next year and a half and then get a contract fro the Nets or someone else

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 07:27 PM
he's the one guy that is really going to benefit from the Williams' acquisition...he'll put up a crapload of threes for the next year and a half and then get a contract fro the Nets or someone else

Assuming Williams signs with the Nets.

Good lord, the Nuggets are playing heartless ball tonight. What a fine night to set my evening around the game...plus Gallinari is on the bench with a sore toe.

vancejohnson82
02-28-2011, 07:28 PM
Assuming Williams signs with the Nets.

Good lord, the Nuggets are playing heartless ball tonight. What a fine night to set my evening around the game...plus Gallinari is on the bench with a sore toe.

well, either way we have him for that year and a half....then he walks (I think) unless we sign some really big pieces

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 07:32 PM
well, either way we have him for that year and a half....then he walks (I think) unless we sign some really big pieces

That's a weird situation. Just a really strange trade from my point of view. They clearly were not enamored with Favors or Harris, so they essentially traded away any future for right now, but right now they aren't even close to a playoff berth.

Just a strange move, either way. If I were the Nets FO, it would have been Melo, and signed extension, or nothing.

vancejohnson82
02-28-2011, 07:34 PM
That's a weird situation. Just a really strange trade from my point of view. They clearly were not enamored with Favors or Harris, so they essentially traded away any future for right now, but right now they aren't even close to a playoff berth.

Just a strange move, either way. If I were the Nets FO, it would have been Melo, and signed extension, or nothing.

the move can really make sense if they can convince another big contract that the Brooklyn experiment is going to work. The Nets will have the most cap space in 2012, and if Williams signs and we can get another big name, in a new stadium in NYC, it really could look good for the Nets

throw in a rivalry with the Knicks and the scene of NYC basketball will be a great thing to watch

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 07:34 PM
I still don't understand why Phoenix got rid of Dragic for Aaron Brooks. Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 07:36 PM
the move can really make sense if they can convince another big contract that the Brooklyn experiment is going to work. The Nets will have the most cap space in 2012, and if Williams signs and we can get another big name, in a new stadium in NYC, it really could look good for the Nets

throw in a rivalry with the Knicks and the scene of NYC basketball will be a great thing to watch

A ton of cap space, sure, but who are the free agents? I don't see a lot of major players out there at this point. Paul, Howard and Williams are the major players in that free agency season, right? I think they should have tried to build around Favors.

vancejohnson82
02-28-2011, 07:36 PM
I still don't understand why Phoenix got rid of Dragic for Aaron Brooks. Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

he fits in pretty well for them....nice spark off the bench and can get hot quick

however, it kinda seemed like a lateral move to me...Dragic definitely has more upside and versatility

vancejohnson82
02-28-2011, 07:38 PM
A ton of cap space, sure, but who are the free agents? I don't see a lot of major players out there at this point. Paul, Howard and Williams are the major players in that free agency season, right? I think they should have tried to build around Favors.

i agree....i wasnt a big fan of the trade for Williams, but after watching him play the last three games, he is an incredible talent and can be built around

the Nets front office and Avery Johnson havent been thrilled with Favors. I liked what I saw from him as a rookie and he has the potential to be a beast (not a Dwight Howard, but maybe a Kendrick Perkins type guy with more scoring ability)

vancejohnson82
02-28-2011, 07:40 PM
another thing that confuses me is Nets management's love for Brook Lopez.....i HATE watching him play hte game

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 07:40 PM
he fits in pretty well for them....nice spark off the bench and can get hot quick

however, it kinda seemed like a lateral move to me...Dragic definitely has more upside and versatility

I don't see Brooks as Nash's replacement. Dragic was clearly Nash's replacement. So, now, they've gotten rid of Amare, signed Grant Hill, traded for Vince Carter and let the point guard of the future go to another team for a sixth-man at best. Not to mention that your so-called big men are the softest in the game with Lopez and Frye. They have absolutely no physical presence underneath, so I guess I understand the move for Gortat, but it's not like he's the one piece to get them over the hump. Suns are just dying a slow death...

(The Suns are kind of my second team behind the Nuggets...if you're wondering why I know that much about the inner workings of the Suns)

vancejohnson82
02-28-2011, 07:41 PM
goddamn....the Nets can't catch a break....tough one to swallow

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 07:42 PM
Oh man, close call, looks like it was after the buzzer. Good game there.

vancejohnson82
02-28-2011, 07:43 PM
I don't see Brooks as Nash's replacement. Dragic was clearly Nash's replacement. So, now, they've gotten rid of Amare, signed Grant Hill, traded for Vince Carter and let the point guard of the future go to another team for a sixth-man at best. Not to mention that your so-called big men are the softest in the game with Lopez and Frye. They have absolutely no physical presence underneath, so I guess I understand the move for Gortat, but it's not like he's the one piece to get them over the hump. Suns are just dying a slow death...

(The Suns are kind of my second team behind the Nuggets...if you're wondering why I know that much about the inner workings of the Suns)

yea, the Suns are going to be the Nets in a few years....starting over and trying to convince people to get on board

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 07:46 PM
Things that irk me: I pay $30 a month to watch any game I want online, but NBA network games are blocked out to online subscribers...how does that make sense...I'm clearly subscribing because my ****ty cable television provider offers neither NBA League Pass or NBA TV...

epicSocialism4tw
02-28-2011, 08:34 PM
Jordan got so many good calls for him that got him to the free throw line - which he converted. About 1/3 of his points came from free throws.

Conversely, Jordan could hack the opposing player and not get called for a foul.

The NBA is a joke. The officiating is bush league. They call traveling once a game and god knows when they'll call it. They call palming the ball once a game and god knows when they'll call it.

Both of those infractions to the basic rules of basketball are violated constantly. The NBA today is a caricature of real basketball.

Naismith is rolling over in his peach basket.

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 08:48 PM
Naismith is rolling over in his peach basket.

Good. Naismith is the only coach to have a losing record at Kansas.

epicSocialism4tw
02-28-2011, 08:50 PM
Good. Naismith is the only coach to have a losing record at Kansas.

Yeah, he only invented the sport.

Dumb canuck.

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 08:56 PM
Yeah, he only invented the sport.

Dumb canuck.

Yup, and he still sucked at coaching it. Your point?

epicSocialism4tw
02-28-2011, 08:57 PM
Yup, and he still sucked at coaching it. Your point?

You brought it up. What is your point?

The guy who created basketball wasnt a good coach?

I think he probably contributed enough to the game. Hilarious!

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 09:03 PM
The guy who created basketball wasnt a good coach?

He wasn't. The record shows it. Sorry to **** up your romanticized version of the "old days."

epicSocialism4tw
02-28-2011, 09:08 PM
He wasn't. The record shows it. Sorry to **** up your romanticized version of the "old days."

Goodness. You probably argue with your hemorrhoids.

Here...work on this one: "The sky is blue".

Ready, set,...bicker!

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 09:10 PM
Goodness. You probably argue with your hemorrhoids.

Here...work on this one: "The sky is blue".

Ready, set,...bicker!

LOL.

:afro:

Pot meet Kettle.

Now, would you like to make more assertions about mediocre players being just as good as Hall of Famers? Or are you done for the night?

epicSocialism4tw
02-28-2011, 09:13 PM
LOL.

:afro:

Pot meet Kettle.

Now, would you like to make more assertions about mediocre players being just as good as Hall of Famers? Or are you done for the night?

We were talking about James Naismith.

Missouribronc
02-28-2011, 09:15 PM
We were talking about James Naismith.

Oh, OK. He's a terrible basketball coach, despite "inventing" the game.

bombay
02-28-2011, 09:19 PM
<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Nuggets go to 3-1 post crapmelo; beat Atlanta, the #4 team in the East, after beating Boston, the #1 team in the East a few nights ago. Their only loss was to Portland in OT on the 2nd night of a back to back (Boston/Portland). Team looks good, and is getting better as the round into form as a team minus the ballrog.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

RhymesayersDU
02-28-2011, 09:22 PM
<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Nuggets go to 3-1 post crapmelo; beat Atlanta, the #4 team in the East, after beating Boston, the #1 team in the East a few nights ago. Their only loss was to Portland in OT on the 2nd night of a back to back (Boston/Portland). Team looks good, and is getting better as the round into form as a team minus the ballrog.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

I'm not going to rain on the parade, overall it's been fun with the new guys. My issue is that Portland game. I want to know who is going to take and make a big shot late in a game.

Now granted, the team is young and we're not seriously contending this year or next... But that Portland game just sticks in my craw. 1 basket late, and it's a win. Gallo missed the 1 FT. In the playoffs, in big games, it's going to be close down to the wire. Need somebody to make a big shot for us.

Who will step up? Should be interesting to see if 1 of the boys can grow into that role.

bombay
02-28-2011, 09:28 PM
I'm not going to rain on the parade, overall it's been fun with the new guys. My issue is that Portland game. I want to know who is going to take and make a big shot late in a game.

Now granted, the team is young and we're not seriously contending this year or next... But that Portland game just sticks in my craw. 1 basket late, and it's a win. Gallo missed the 1 FT. In the playoffs, in big games, it's going to be close down to the wire. Need somebody to make a big shot for us.

Who will step up? Should be interesting to see if 1 of the boys can grow into that role.

That's the thing I'm least worried about at this point. Second night of a back to back, it was clear that Gallinarie was gassed when he missed the free throw that cost them the game. I don't think you can make the same excuse for Lawson for the layup miss that also cost them the game. There's plenty of talent, more that there was with marshmellow, and it's not well integrated yet.

epicSocialism4tw
02-28-2011, 09:38 PM
I'm not going to rain on the parade, overall it's been fun with the new guys. My issue is that Portland game. I want to know who is going to take and make a big shot late in a game.

Now granted, the team is young and we're not seriously contending this year or next... But that Portland game just sticks in my craw. 1 basket late, and it's a win. Gallo missed the 1 FT. In the playoffs, in big games, it's going to be close down to the wire. Need somebody to make a big shot for us.

Who will step up? Should be interesting to see if 1 of the boys can grow into that role.

Afflalo.

Dude's a winner. Billups rubbed off on him.

spdirty
02-28-2011, 09:43 PM
Nice comfortable enjoyable win. Close enough so it wasnt extremely boring, yet I wasn't ever really worried we would lose. Hope Gallo's toe gets better soon. Maybe hold him out against Charlotte and play him against Utah Thursday.

Rulon Velvet Jones
03-01-2011, 07:45 AM
Your little Nuggets are playing their butts off up there. Cool to see. Keep it up. Maybe make a little noise in the playoffs (but not at the expense of our beloved Mavericks though).

RhymesayersDU
03-01-2011, 08:52 AM
Nice comfortable enjoyable win. Close enough so it wasnt extremely boring, yet I wasn't ever really worried we would lose. Hope Gallo's toe gets better soon. Maybe hold him out against Charlotte and play him against Utah Thursday.

He's out 7-10 days.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
03-01-2011, 01:14 PM
Sorry, Gasol isn't the best player in the league. And no one else on the Lakers is even in the top ten, so I don't know who else you could be talking about.

Good God - I hope you're just joking here.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
03-01-2011, 01:15 PM
There is no comparing M.J. to anyone that i've seen.

Kobe comes closer than anyone else in this era.

Karenin
03-01-2011, 04:00 PM
Good God - I hope you're just joking here.

Nope. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Good luck.

TDmvp
03-01-2011, 04:00 PM
Kobe comes closer than anyone else in this era.

Yup ... and you know that pains me to say L.A. hehehe ...

TDmvp
03-01-2011, 04:09 PM
Nope. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Good luck.

I hate the Lakers for starters , But Karenin as usual you are either just saying crap you know is BS to get a rise out of people or are dense.

Statistically Kobe is the most clutch player of the last decade.

There is a website that does that numbers of made shots with 24 secs or less to win or tie and Kobe is the best this era.


But If you think Gasol is the best player on the Lakers you are Delusional ...

I'd get that checked out.

epicSocialism4tw
03-01-2011, 04:11 PM
I hate the Lakers for starters , But Karenin as usual you are either just saying crap you know is BS to get a rise out of people or are dense.

Statistically Kobe is the most clutch player of the last decade.

There is a website that does that numbers of made shots with 24 secs or less to win or tie and Kobe is the best this era.


But If you think Gasol is the best player on the Lakers you are Delusional ...

I'd get that checked out.

Yeah, that's pretty much ridiculous. To see the difference, all you have to do is go back and watch Gasol with the Grizzlies.

vancejohnson82
03-01-2011, 04:20 PM
I hate the Lakers for starters , But Karenin as usual you are either just saying crap you know is BS to get a rise out of people or are dense.

Statistically Kobe is the most clutch player of the last decade.
There is a website that does that numbers of made shots with 24 secs or less to win or tie and Kobe is the best this era.


But If you think Gasol is the best player on the Lakers you are Delusional ...

I'd get that checked out.

Statistically this isn't true....

Karenin
03-01-2011, 04:20 PM
I hate the Lakers for starters , But Karenin as usual you are either just saying crap you know is BS to get a rise out of people or are dense.

Statistically Kobe is the most clutch player of the last decade.

There is a website that does that numbers of made shots with 24 secs or less to win or tie and Kobe is the best this era.


But If you think Gasol is the best player on the Lakers you are Delusional ...

I'd get that checked out.

Cool story, Kobe was pretty good 5-6 years ago, (even then he wasn't the best player on his team) but now he kinda isn't. Players get old and worse, it happens to everybody.

TDmvp
03-01-2011, 04:24 PM
Statistically this isn't true....

Sorry I will believe Espn and the website they quote that does the figuring before someone who just says stuff ...


Try google ...

epicSocialism4tw
03-01-2011, 04:27 PM
Cool story, Kobe was pretty good 5-6 years ago, (even then he wasn't the best player on his team) but now he kinda isn't. Players get old and worse, it happens to everybody.

He could be playing in a wheelchair and he'd probably still be better than Gasol.

Its easy to be a good player when you're playing between Odom and Bynum and watching Bryant occupy the attention of everyone on the other team.

Gasol is good, but he ain't even close to Bryant or any player at Bryant's level. Gasol is not a franchise player...thats why Memphis dumped him for peanuts and some french fries.

vancejohnson82
03-01-2011, 04:33 PM
Sorry I will believe Espn and the website they quote that does the figuring before someone who just says stuff ...


Try google ...

hey, why don't you try reading ESPN

they had an article just two weeks ago STATISTICALLY breaking it down over hte last 15 years

I believe it is even posted in this thread....but why believe just some guy who actually reads articles

TDmvp
03-01-2011, 04:38 PM
hey, why don't you try reading ESPN

they had an article just two weeks ago STATISTICALLY breaking it down over hte last 15 years

I believe it is even posted in this thread....but why believe just some guy who actually reads articles

You do realize I said of last decade ... 15 years is not a decade.


So yea maybe someone was more clutch over the last 15 years , I didn't say that tho.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-01-2011, 04:40 PM
You do realize I said of last decade ... 15 years is not a decade.


So yea maybe someone was more clutch over the last 15 years , I didn't say that tho.

Not to mention, Kobe took a gigantic turd during game seven last year and, thanks to his supporting cast, no one will remember it because they found a way to win despite it

When Bron played poorly, the cavs looked horrid..he had the weight of that entire team on his back.

vancejohnson82
03-01-2011, 04:42 PM
You do realize I said of last decade ... 15 years is not a decade.


So yea maybe someone was more clutch over the last 15 years , I didn't say that tho.

you're being an ass....

here ya go....http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

most attempts...not even close to best percentage of clutch moments for Kobe

epicSocialism4tw
03-01-2011, 04:44 PM
Not to mention, Kobe took a gigantic turd during game seven last year and, thanks to his supporting cast, no one will remember it because they found a way to win despite it

When Bron played poorly, the cavs looked horrid..he had the weight of that entire team on his back.

Aw...poor LeBrick.

Couldnt carry Jordan's jock, so he moved on to carrying Dwyane Wade's.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-01-2011, 04:46 PM
Aw...poor LeBrick.

Couldnt carry Jordan's jock, so he moved on to carrying Dwyane Wade's.

If you havent noticed, and because you have something personal against Bron you havent, hes the best player on that team. Obviously they'll never do this, but they should trade wade for people who actually fit what they are doing. Lebron really shoulda been a Knick. Bron/Amare/Gallo/Chandler/Fields etc (and room for another fairly decent sized contract) would have owned.

vancejohnson82
03-01-2011, 04:49 PM
If you havent noticed, and because you have something personal against Bron you havent, hes the best player on that team. Obviously they'll never do this, but they should trade wade for people who actually fit what they are doing. Lebron really shoulda been a Knick. Bron/Amare/Gallo/Chandler/Fields etc (and room for another fairly decent sized contract) would have owned.

its amazing that he can put up 23/12/8 every night and people say that he has fallen off

TDmvp
03-01-2011, 04:50 PM
Well espn gave a list of best in the league losing with 24 secs or less at making a shot to win or tie and the top two was Kobe and Lebron over last decade , which for the record is 10 years...


and gave stats to back it up , so I will be going with that...

epicSocialism4tw
03-01-2011, 04:52 PM
If you havent noticed, and because you have something personal against Bron you havent, hes the best player on that team. Obviously they'll never do this, but they should trade wade for people who actually fit what they are doing. Lebron really shoulda been a Knick. Bron/Amare/Gallo/Chandler/Fields etc (and room for another fairly decent sized contract) would have owned.

We'll never know. They could have sucked. LeBrick is too stupid to have seen that possibility anyhow. He's being led around like a dog on a leash by a bunch of handlers who told him that this Miami thing would be the best choice.

Dude's a moron.

vancejohnson82
03-01-2011, 04:52 PM
Well espn gave a list of best in the league losing with 24 secs or less at making a shot to win or tie and the top two was Kobe and Lebron over last decade , which for the record is 10 years...


and gave stats to back it up , so I will be going with that...

whatever, that whole article is well done and lays out the entire landscape....Kobe will make 30 percent of his game winners....so be it

go on with the Kobe suckfest...

epicSocialism4tw
03-01-2011, 04:52 PM
its amazing that he can put up 23/12/8 every night and people say that he has fallen off

He can put up those numbers and the Heat still cant beat a good team.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-01-2011, 04:55 PM
We'll never know. They could have sucked. LeBrick is too stupid to have seen that possibility anyhow. He's being led around like a dog on a leash by a bunch of handlers who told him that this Miami thing would be the best choice.

Dude's a moron.

Hes not a moron at all. he's very calculated. With Wade, he thinks he can win multiple championships because those guys are immensely talented and iassume they thought they'd figure it out (and miami does have the best point differerntial in the league, so its not that crazy) With the knicks, all he had to do is win ONE and he woulda been a God. Miami is playing good basketball now and im not gonna be against that team in a 7 game series, but Bron plays his best when he's always got the ball. When Cleveland was ticking, they played amazing team basketball. That could have been the knicks, cept he'd have much better talent. The Knicks had the right complementary pieces in place. I said it then, ill say it now. It was a mistake.

TDmvp
03-01-2011, 04:59 PM
whatever, that whole article is well done and lays out the entire landscape....Kobe will make 30 percent of his game winners....so be it

go on with the Kobe suckfest...



I hate Kobe . But I'm just telling you what they said on tv .

Funny thing is you mention that 30% number , in the thing I seen today where they say him and lebron was best in these situations they said 30% /29% of those shots made at the end of the game was a REALLY REALLY good %.

They said they hit about 29% of those shots and that was the best in the league.

vancejohnson82
03-01-2011, 05:05 PM
I hate Kobe . But I'm just telling you what they said on tv .

Funny thing is you mention that 30% number , in the thing I seen today where they say him and lebron was best in these situations they said 30% /29% of those shots made at the end of the game was a REALLY REALLY good %.

They said they hit about 29% of those shots and that was the best in the league.

all the numbers are listed in that article...for the amount of shots Kobe takes, 30% is a good number i guess....Melo blows it away though

TDmvp
03-01-2011, 05:11 PM
all the numbers are listed in that article...for the amount of shots Kobe takes, 30% is a good number i guess....Melo blows it away though

Maybe Espn was having a Kobe suckfest heheh . They do Bang on Kobe alot.

I never have liked Kobe tho.


And all this Clutch talk doesn't really matter cause none of these guys are as clutch as Reggie Miller heheh ....

epicSocialism4tw
03-01-2011, 05:15 PM
Hes not a moron at all. he's very calculated. With Wade, he thinks he can win multiple championships because those guys are immensely talented and iassume they thought they'd figure it out (and miami does have the best point differerntial in the league, so its not that crazy) With the knicks, all he had to do is win ONE and he woulda been a God. Miami is playing good basketball now and im not gonna be against that team in a 7 game series, but Bron plays his best when he's always got the ball. When Cleveland was ticking, they played amazing team basketball. That could have been the knicks, cept he'd have much better talent. The Knicks had the right complementary pieces in place. I said it then, ill say it now. It was a mistake.

No. LeBrick is a moron. There's no denying it. He has a high school degree and given the nature that he was coddled and buoyed through high school, that thing is doubtable too.

LeBrick nuggets of wisdom:

Im like a superhero. Call me Basketball Man.

I'm the next O.J.,

"Everywhere I've been, I've been the best player. I love being a leader, and I love being the best. I just want to get better. It's not about being cocky or selfish or anything like that. It's just how I am."

"I'm not from Cleveland, I'm from Africa."

A lot of players know how to play the game, but they really dont know how to play the game, if you know what I mean."

"In the next 15 or 20 years, I hope I'll be the richest man in the world. That's one of my goals."

"It's hard to win in the league, because every team is good, they got players on their team. A lot harder than high school."

SonOfLe-loLang
03-01-2011, 05:32 PM
No. LeBrick is a moron. There's no denying it. He has a high school degree and given the nature that he was coddled and buoyed through high school, that thing is doubtable too.

LeBrick nuggets of wisdom:

Im like a superhero. Call me Basketball Man.

I'm the next O.J.,

"Everywhere I've been, I've been the best player. I love being a leader, and I love being the best. I just want to get better. It's not about being cocky or selfish or anything like that. It's just how I am."

"I'm not from Cleveland, I'm from Africa."

A lot of players know how to play the game, but they really dont know how to play the game, if you know what I mean."

"In the next 15 or 20 years, I hope I'll be the richest man in the world. That's one of my goals."

"It's hard to win in the league, because every team is good, they got players on their team. A lot harder than high school."

Im not sure why this makes him dumb. In fact, up until "the decision" id say he played everything perfectly.

epicSocialism4tw
03-01-2011, 05:36 PM
Im not sure why this makes him dumb. In fact, up until "the decision" id say he played everything perfectly.

He's dumb because he's not smart...as was proven by the epically stupid "The Decision" and just about every quote he has ever given to the press.

Dude's head doesnt look round...probably because his brain is smaller than the average human brain.

vancejohnson82
03-01-2011, 05:37 PM
Im not sure why this makes him dumb. In fact, up until "the decision" id say he played everything perfectly.

I agree....except for not winning the big game I thought his image was pretty safe

not sure why saying that you want to be rich, learn the game more, that the game is toughest at its highest level, etc...makes you dumb

epic, you've really got it out for Bron Bron huh?

SonOfLe-loLang
03-01-2011, 05:37 PM
He's dumb because he's not smart...as was proven by the epically stupid "The Decision" and just about every quote he has ever given to the press.

Dude's head doesnt look round...probably because his brain is smaller than the average human brain.

Dudes actually pretty well spoken...i dunno your problem

epicSocialism4tw
03-01-2011, 05:44 PM
Dudes actually pretty well spoken...i dunno your problem

Well spoken? ROFL!

Um...lets see...is it....uh....can it...nah. No.

LeBrick is not well spoken at all. In fact, he is the opposite of well spoken.

He could stand there, put his lips together and hum, and it would make him look smarter than if he actually responded to questions with words.

If you want to know what "well spoken" sounds like, listen to Grant Hill.

vancejohnson82
03-01-2011, 05:49 PM
Well spoken? ROFL!

Um...lets see...is it....uh....can it...nah. No.

LeBrick is not well spoken at all. In fact, he is the opposite of well spoken.

He could stand there, put his lips together and hum, and it would make him look smarter than if he actually responded to questions with words.

If you want to know what "well spoken" sounds like, listen to Grant Hill.

Grant Hill is 12 years older than James....

I can understand hate against the guy because he was a total flavor clown this summer...but you sound a little bit unreasonable

epicSocialism4tw
03-01-2011, 05:54 PM
I agree....except for not winning the big game I thought his image was pretty safe

not sure why saying that you want to be rich, learn the game more, that the game is toughest at its highest level, etc...makes you dumb

epic, you've really got it out for Bron Bron huh?

I liked LeBrick despite his legendary unclutchness and his dull brain before "The Decision", which to me proved him to be one of the most self-obsessed, socially un-aware flavor clowns in the history of pro sports.

He deserves public derision at every turn. Why? Because he thinks he's entitled to adulation and praise.

I reject his reality (in the way he couldnt reject Kobe's dunk in the all-star game) and substitute my own.

epicSocialism4tw
03-01-2011, 05:55 PM
Grant Hill is 12 years older than James....

I can understand hate against the guy because he was a total flavor clown this summer...but you sound a little bit unreasonable

Grant Hill was more erudite than James is when Hill was a teenager.

TonyR
03-01-2011, 06:48 PM
Cleveland was 61-21 in the regular season last year. They're on pace to finish 15-67 this year. Hmm, I wonder if LeBron James can play a little?

TonyR
03-01-2011, 06:52 PM
Grant Hill was more erudite than James is when Hill was a teenager.

So because Grant Hill was brought up in much better circumstances than LeBron this is a reason for you to judge him for it? And to tie this to his ability to play basketball? LeBron James may not be the best player in the league right now but he's certainly one of the best and is also probably the most physically gifted. Just because you don't like him or like the way he handled his decision to leave Cleveland for Miami (which, by the way, he had every right to do) doesn't mean you have to troll up this thread with your ignorant comments about him. I don't care for him myself but unlike you I have enough perspective to appreciate what a great basketball player he is.

epicSocialism4tw
03-01-2011, 07:16 PM
So because Grant Hill was brought up in much better circumstances than LeBron this is a reason for you to judge him for it? And to tie this to his ability to play basketball? LeBron James may not be the best player in the league right now but he's certainly one of the best and is also probably the most physically gifted. Just because you don't like him or like the way he handled his decision to leave Cleveland for Miami (which, by the way, he had every right to do) doesn't mean you have to troll up this thread with your ignorant comments about him. I don't care for him myself but unlike you I have enough perspective to appreciate what a great basketball player he is.

LOL

Thanks for the troll, troll.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread...

LA's going to win the championship again this year. Discuss...

vancejohnson82
03-01-2011, 07:23 PM
LOL

Thanks for the troll, troll.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread...

LA's going to win the championship again this year. Discuss...

oh....are you an LA fan?

your opinions make more sense now

epicSocialism4tw
03-01-2011, 07:25 PM
oh....are you an LA fan?

your opinions make more sense now

No, dude. I hate LA.

Missouribronc
03-01-2011, 08:39 PM
I liked LeBrick despite his legendary unclutchness and his dull brain before "The Decision", which to me proved him to be one of the most self-obsessed, socially un-aware flavor clowns in the history of pro sports.

He deserves public derision at every turn. Why? Because he thinks he's entitled to adulation and praise.

I reject his reality (in the way he couldnt reject Kobe's dunk in the all-star game) and substitute my own.

Well, now I'm convinced that you don't even watch the NBA. As I posted earlier, LeBron has hit the most game-winning (WINNING) shots in the last five years (excluding 2011), and you didn't respond at all to that.

Quite frankly, your claim of "unclutchness" has no basis in fact, and I would love for you to prove that. (we all know you won't...)

RhymesayersDU
03-01-2011, 08:57 PM
I don't know why you guys get into it with Llama. Sometimes he's willing to have a legitimate discussion, other times he's just pushing whatever agenda he's behind at the moment.

It's clear he's not looking for anything but to irritate you all and push his anti-LeBron agenda. I'd just keep walking.

vancejohnson82
03-01-2011, 09:01 PM
I don't know why you guys get into it with Llama. Sometimes he's willing to have a legitimate discussion, other times he's just pushing whatever agenda he's behind at the moment.

It's clear he's not looking for anything but to irritate you all and push his anti-LeBron agenda. I'd just keep walking.

I'm not used to it....I stay out of the political threads so when he pops in here, I'm easily baited

maven
03-01-2011, 09:09 PM
Yup ... And if you was starting a team now and could have anyone to start the team around I bet some team would take Kevin Durant over LeBrick...

Kevin is 22 and a FREAK ... 4 years younger than James.

KD is overrated, hate to say it.

maven
03-01-2011, 09:10 PM
I don't know why you guys get into it with Llama. Sometimes he's willing to have a legitimate discussion, other times he's just pushing whatever agenda he's behind at the moment.

It's clear he's not looking for anything but to irritate you all and push his anti-LeBron agenda. I'd just keep walking.

It is obvious he doesn't watch the Heat play. There's nothing to get into.

epicSocialism4tw
03-01-2011, 09:26 PM
Well, now I'm convinced that you don't even watch the NBA. As I posted earlier, LeBron has hit the most game-winning (WINNING) shots in the last five years (excluding 2011), and you didn't respond at all to that.

Quite frankly, your claim of "unclutchness" has no basis in fact, and I would love for you to prove that. (we all know you won't...)

I didnt see your statement about that, but I'll comment because you asked me to.

I went to the venerable 82games dot com to research this topic with some hard data, and found the following: http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM
Thats the top clutch scorers this season. Top 3: 1 Bryant, 2 Nowitzki, 3 Stoudemire. James is 13th.

Take home point: James doesnt get it done in the clutch as much as his peers.

I looked at the clutch FG% of those guys (http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT6.HTM), and went with the players who had a high number of field goal attempts and ranked them according to field goal %:
Top 3: 1 Nowitzki at 0.600, 1 Tyrus Thomas at 0.600 (this is a player on the rise), 2 Jason Terry at 0.583, 3 Stoudemire at 0.560.
Other noteables:
12 Rose .396
14 Durant .391
16 Bryant .385
..and...
24 LeBron James .333

Take home point: given the opportunity, LeBron James capitalizes on clutch shots less often than dozens of his peers.

Clutch assists (http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT14.HTM). James ranks behind other clutch shooters Nash, Rose, Bryant, Parker, Westbrook, Nowitzki, Terry, and Evans.


Clutch steals (http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT17.HTM). James ranks behind other clutch shooters Tyrus Thomas, Terry, Williams, Rose, Bryant, Nowitzki, and Durant.

vancejohnson82
03-01-2011, 09:28 PM
Tyrus Thomas' ceiling is gingerbread house high

Missouribronc
03-01-2011, 09:38 PM
13th in the entire NBA in these so-called clutch moments, and that equates to him "not getting it done." Um, OK.

He's still first in game winning shots, the ultimate clutch statistic. Therefore, the "LeBrick" label is both stupid and untrue.

Again, I shouldn't be shocked at your stupidity, but somehow I am...

maven
03-01-2011, 09:40 PM
13th in the entire NBA in these so-called clutch moments, and that equates to him "not getting it done." Um, OK.

He's still first in game winning shots, the ultimate clutch statistic. Therefore, the "LeBrick" label is both stupid and untrue.

Again, I shouldn't be shocked at your stupidity, but somehow I am...

Well you said excluding 2011, and he pulls up 2010-2011 stats. Who's right?

;)

epicSocialism4tw
03-01-2011, 09:43 PM
13th in the entire NBA in these so-called clutch moments, and that equates to him "not getting it done." Um, OK.

He's still first in game winning shots, the ultimate clutch statistic. Therefore, the "LeBrick" label is both stupid and untrue.

Again, I shouldn't be shocked at your stupidity, but somehow I am...

The 13th ranking was in points. Not in field goal makes per attempt (FG%). Points do not show how many shot attempts he missed. It just tells us that he takes alot of shots.

James was 24th in field goal %. That means that 24 of the players who take alot of clutch shots make more of them per attempt than he does. There are what..30 teams in the NBA? Only one or two guys per team take alot of clutch shots. That would put LeBron in the bottom of the league. It isnt any wonder why the Heat cant beat any good teams.

"LeBrick" refers to a missed shot. According to FG%, "LeBrick" is an apt moniker.

0.333 may be a good batting average, but its a terrible FG%.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-02-2011, 12:11 AM
I liked LeBrick despite his legendary unclutchness and his dull brain before "The Decision", which to me proved him to be one of the most self-obsessed, socially un-aware flavor clowns in the history of pro sports.

He deserves public derision at every turn. Why? Because he thinks he's entitled to adulation and praise.

I reject his reality (in the way he couldnt reject Kobe's dunk in the all-star game) and substitute my own.

Now its "legendary" How soon we forget the 48 special and him draining that shot against orlando in game 2 of the ECF.

I dont know what your issue is with Bron...he sleep with your girl or something?

Missouribronc
03-02-2011, 10:21 AM
I didnt see your statement about that, but I'll comment because you asked me to.

I went to the venerable 82games dot com to research this topic with some hard data, and found the following: http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM
Thats the top clutch scorers this season. Top 3: 1 Bryant, 2 Nowitzki, 3 Stoudemire. James is 13th.

Take home point: James doesnt get it done in the clutch as much as his peers.

In Points per 48 minutes of Clutch Time. The Heat have played, according to these numbers just 41 minutes of clutch time this season, while Bryant has played 54, Nowitzki 66 and Stoudemire 78, so James hasn't even reached 48 minutes of clutch time this season, so the author of the statistics is having to project what he's going to do in the next eight minutes, versus averaging what those players have already done. There is a difference.

Take home point: James is doing it all game long, so he doesn't have to do it in the "clutch," game in and game out. See: Blowouts.

I looked at the clutch FG% of those guys (http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT6.HTM), and went with the players who had a high number of field goal attempts and ranked them according to field goal %:
Top 3: 1 Nowitzki at 0.600, 1 Tyrus Thomas at 0.600 (this is a player on the rise), 2 Jason Terry at 0.583, 3 Stoudemire at 0.560.
Other noteables:
12 Rose .396
14 Durant .391
16 Bryant .385
..and...
24 LeBron James .333

Take home point: given the opportunity, LeBron James capitalizes on clutch shots less often than dozens of his peers.

Legit criticisms for Rose, Durant, Nowitzki and Bryant, according to these numbers. Thomas and Stoudemire aren't attempting three-pointers, so its just not a valid comparison.

So, James isn't as good as Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant, Dirk Nowitzki Kevin Durant and Kobe Bryant in clutch free throw percentage...amazingly, they are all ahead of him in field goal percentage altogether, but we won't discuss that.

I guess that also means he's chopped liver.

The 13th ranking was in points. Not in field goal makes per attempt (FG%). Points do not show how many shot attempts he missed. It just tells us that he takes alot of shots.

Not sure what point you're trying to make here. He was 13th in points per 48 minutes and 10th in field goals attempted per 48 minutes. Bryant, Richardson, Rose and Anthony are the ones that are jacking up shots right and left in "clutch" time.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
03-02-2011, 11:46 AM
I hate the Lakers for starters , But Karenin as usual you are either just saying crap you know is BS to get a rise out of people or are dense.

Statistically Kobe is the most clutch player of the last decade.

There is a website that does that numbers of made shots with 24 secs or less to win or tie and Kobe is the best this era.


But If you think Gasol is the best player on the Lakers you are Delusional ...

I'd get that checked out.

I figured he was just trolling.

No one could be that ignorant when it comes to basketball.

Willynowei
03-02-2011, 11:54 AM
When i look at this thread, and all these misguided statistical analysis of the game of basketball, i think: "these guys are so knowledgeable about football, and know very well that individual statistics such as QB rating and sacks prove nothing, why do they think the NBA is any different?".

I read an article today where, despite the Knick's great games against Miami and Orlando, some analyst tried to argue that Carmelo was not a good pickup for the Knicks because his "true shooting percentage" is low.

Jesus.

I have news for you guys, none of those numbers say much.

Lebron at the end of the day, seems to be more timid in the 4th than a guy like Kobe who is more aggressive. Kobe is clutch, very clutch regardless of what the numbers say. He is clutch because when he goes up for a shot he's very confident following the hours and hours of practice he's put in that shot, anyone who's played sports knows what I'm talking about.

Some players, get open shots, easy shots, easy assists, and better efficiency numberes because of the team they play on. Just like Mike Shanahan can produce 5+ yard per carry runningbacks, guess what, some coaches can produce 10+ assist point guards.

Some teams run through a guy, and that guy ends up with way more assists/points/whatever. Some guys have lower efficiency ratings but are in fact much better players but their numbers are dilluded because whenver the shot clock is running out, they take the bail out shot.

Lebron is timid and he's not confident in his outside shot, but when he drives to the lane, I don't care if its quarter 1 or quarter 4, he's getting a foul or he's scoring most of the time. Its really just that simple, trust your eyes!

epicSocialism4tw
03-02-2011, 12:53 PM
In Points per 48 minutes of Clutch Time. The Heat have played, according to these numbers just 41 minutes of clutch time this season, while Bryant has played 54, Nowitzki 66 and Stoudemire 78, so James hasn't even reached 48 minutes of clutch time this season, so the author of the statistics is having to project what he's going to do in the next eight minutes, versus averaging what those players have already done. There is a difference.

That doesnt have anything to do with it. Per 48 is a normalization of data to remove discrepancies. Its a commonly used normalization for NBA statisticians. Check it out.

Take home point: James is doing it all game long, so he doesn't have to do it in the "clutch," game in and game out. See: Blowouts.

The Heat are 0-2 against Dallas, 0-3 vs. Boston, and 0-2 vs. Chicago. They are 1-0 vs. LA. They havent played San Antonio yet. So theyre 1-7 vs, the league's elite. That stands in sharp contrast to the idea that theyre blowing people out. That looks to me like they cant beat good teams, but they can beat the Clevelands of the league.

Legit criticisms for Rose, Durant, Nowitzki and Bryant, according to these numbers. Thomas and Stoudemire aren't attempting three-pointers, so its just not a valid comparison.

3 pointers? Free Throws? "Field Goal %" does factor in three point attempts, but not free throw attempts. This is a basic statistical analysis that everybody understands who follows basketball. I guess you dont follow basketball?


So, James isn't as good as Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant, Dirk Nowitzki Kevin Durant and Kobe Bryant in clutch free throw percentage...amazingly, they are all ahead of him in field goal percentage altogether, but we won't discuss that.

Um...hate to break it to you, but free throw percentage isnt calculated into field goal percentage. Thats a basic thing that you should understand if you want to talk statistics.

There's another column in that set of data that you can sort by titled "FT%"...that's free throw %.

Missouribronc
03-02-2011, 12:59 PM
There's another column in that set of data that you can sort by titled "FT%"...that's free throw %.

Insert Field Goal percentage into the one place where I mis-typed, and then go back and re-rant.

Sorry for the typo. :thumbs:

TonyR
03-02-2011, 01:00 PM
Thats a basic thing that you should understand if you want to talk statistics.

And yet you ignore the statistical analysis linked below.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics

24champ
03-02-2011, 01:04 PM
Hoping Matt Barnes returns soon, Lakers need a deeper bench to compete against the Spurs this coming weekend.

bombay
03-02-2011, 04:59 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html


No individual player was as good as Wilt. He averaged 50.4 points and 25.7 boards one season.

epicSocialism4tw
03-02-2011, 06:17 PM
Hoping Matt Barnes returns soon, Lakers need a deeper bench to compete against the Spurs this coming weekend.

Tony Parker is out.

Lakers shouldnt have any trouble with the Spurs sans Parker.

Inkana7
03-02-2011, 06:28 PM
Tony Parker is out.

Lakers shouldnt have any trouble with the Spurs sans Parker.

Clearly he was the only thing keeping them going.

epicSocialism4tw
03-02-2011, 06:29 PM
Clearly he was the only thing keeping them going.

They got trashed by Memphis last night. Tony Parker is now their best player. He's impossible to keep out of the lane.

ZONA
03-02-2011, 10:36 PM
Rondo showing why his GM said "he needs to grow up". Celts ahead by 11 or so with a few ticks on the clock and most guys will just hold onto the ball as the last seconds tick away. It's what you do when the game is in hand and if you make a serious attempt to score it's considered league wide as a chump move. Well, not Rondo. He's got to showboat, dance around with the ball and throw up a 3 pointer. Dudley plants him on his ass for doing it. Rondo gets to go to the free throw line to shoot 3 making his teammates take position at the key embarrassed to even be out there for something that's know around the league as a classless act.

Way to go Rondo - you're such a tool.

Jason in LA
03-03-2011, 08:57 PM
Down by three points to the Magic with a few seconds left in the game, the ball is kicked out to a wide open LeBron James. Of course James misses the three point shot. It's funny how that guy is the total opposite of clutch. There was nobody around him and he had time to set up. Well at least this time he hit the rim. Oh, and the Heat were up by 24 points and ended up losing.

RhymesayersDU
03-03-2011, 09:01 PM
LeBron missed a shot to tie the game! I can hear Llama wetting himself with excitement from here.

TDmvp
03-03-2011, 09:08 PM
The funny part is WTF was Bosh doing taking a 3 before Lebron ?

It looked like it was drawn up that way for Bosh to take a long jumper when that's totally not his gig.


And he bricks it and it hops right to Lebron who was as clutch as ever...

During that game I heard Reggie Miller say he can't understand how a team so loaded as the Heat keep struggling in these situations vs good teams , and that's because someone as clutch as Reggie could never imagine being as unclutch as Lebron and the Heat hehehe.

Inkana7
03-03-2011, 09:16 PM
Hahahahahahaha

I hate the cHeat

Jason in LA
03-03-2011, 09:23 PM
When the Heat won the title, that was a pretty good team. But with the game on the line, D Wade never looked to pass, even with a couple guys guarding him, and he still hit the shot and won them the title.

LeBron should just get the ball to Wade and get the hell out the way.

epicSocialism4tw
03-03-2011, 09:33 PM
LeBron missed a shot to tie the game! I can hear Llama wetting himself with excitement from here.

Why get excited?

Its expected.

epicSocialism4tw
03-03-2011, 09:33 PM
When the Heat won the title, that was a pretty good team. But with the game on the line, D Wade never looked to pass, even with a couple guys guarding him, and he still hit the shot and won them the title.

LeBron should just get the ball to Wade and get the hell out the way.

Exactly.

Let James do his thing for the first three quarters and then let Wade take over.

Its just not working with James being that guy. The Heat are now 1-8 vs. the elite teams.

bombay
03-03-2011, 09:35 PM
The Great Eric Dampier was 3-3 from the field, 3-3 from the line, 3 blocks, 3 boards 7 of Miami's last 9 points tonight. He's shooting over 95% from the field over their past ten games. Perhaps they could find a bigger role for him.

epicSocialism4tw
03-03-2011, 09:36 PM
The Great Eric Dampier was 3-3 from the field, 3-3 from the line, 3 blocks, 3 boards 7 of Miami's last 9 points tonight. He's shooting over 95% from the field over their past ten games. Perhaps they could find a bigger role for him.

He hit a three pointer for the Mavs last year. Maybe they can move James out of the way on that last second shot and let Damp square up. ;D

SimonFletcher73
03-03-2011, 09:41 PM
The Heat should just sign Robert Horry to take last second shots. Lebron doesn't have it at all.

TDmvp
03-03-2011, 10:20 PM
Bosh is crying now ? Google real time is blowing up about him crying during the post game ?

spdirty
03-03-2011, 10:40 PM
every ****ing time they go to Utah bull**** like this happens.

bombay
03-03-2011, 10:49 PM
Nuggets down 3 with 6:30 TO GO.

epicSocialism4tw
03-03-2011, 10:54 PM
every ****ing time they go to Utah bull**** like this happens.

Utah is a team freed of locker room toxicity just like Denver.

Both of those teams are playing like they love the game again. Denver has the better players though. They should pull it out even though Utah are tough at home.

spdirty
03-03-2011, 11:02 PM
offensive screen foul. Kinda bull**** that happens in crunch time in utah. Maddening.

spdirty
03-03-2011, 11:03 PM
and of course cant hit any free throws.

spdirty
03-03-2011, 11:04 PM
9 missed free throws in the 4th quarter.

spdirty
03-03-2011, 11:06 PM
Officials trying to cheat utah to a win. Nene can't make a free throw.

you see that stat on the 4th quarter free throws? Nugs are 11/20, Utah is 1/1.

bombay
03-03-2011, 11:06 PM
Wow. bogus foul

spdirty
03-03-2011, 11:09 PM
Thank you Lawson. Game would be over if we hit those free throws. Up 3 with 40 seconds left.

Still pessimistic cuz its in Utah, but we'll see.

spdirty
03-03-2011, 11:10 PM
Yeah Afflalo!!!!!!!!!!! Thats ****ing clutch!!!!! Melo who??

bombay
03-03-2011, 11:13 PM
Five and one without marshmellow

spdirty
03-03-2011, 11:13 PM
5-1. :)

spdirty
03-03-2011, 11:14 PM
**** me.

epicSocialism4tw
03-03-2011, 11:15 PM
Yeah Afflalo!!!!!!!!!!! Thats ****ing clutch!!!!! Melo who??

When are you guys going to learn to listen to me? ;D

Afflalo is for real. That dude's the future for your team. He's a winner with a winners mentality. I wish he was the 2-guard for my team. That's what a clutch player looks like. You dont have to make excuses for him, he just does it.

Lycan
03-03-2011, 11:15 PM
WTF was that? lol

DivineBronco
03-03-2011, 11:15 PM
Kenyon Martin should be punched in the face in public for that

epicSocialism4tw
03-03-2011, 11:16 PM
Nowitzki: Kobe Bryant is the best player in the world.
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4674971/dirk-nowitzki-lakers-heavy-heavy-favorites

Bronco Vixen
03-03-2011, 11:18 PM
Kenyon Martin should be punched in the face in public for that

yes...yes he should.

Still - huge win for the Nuggs!! So exciting this new team is!!

RhymesayersDU
03-04-2011, 05:58 AM
Wild end to the game, but we'll take it in Utah. Up next: The Clippers.

TonyR
03-04-2011, 06:28 AM
Utah is a team freed of locker room toxicity just like Denver.

Both of those teams are playing like they love the game again.

LOL Utah is 1-4 since trading Williams.

epicSocialism4tw
03-04-2011, 01:42 PM
Utah is 1-4 since trading Williams.

Did I say that they were winning?

Gutless Drunk
03-04-2011, 09:12 PM
28151

Man-Goblin
03-04-2011, 09:42 PM
28151

LOL The Cavs own the Knicks. Did Melo ask to guard JJ Hickson like he did with Lebron?

Kind of expected, though, with Chauncey out.

epicSocialism4tw
03-04-2011, 09:58 PM
The Heat wont sniff the NBA Finals this year. They dont want to put in the work. They just want it handed to them.

Two straight embarrassing losses when they should be congealing and starting to be able to execute their offense and defense is showing that cracks are forming. Pat Riley looks furious every time I see him on camera. Usually after LeBron bricks another ill-advised 3-pointer when he should be taking the ball to the basket.

The Spurs are pretty good, but to get beat like this shows that there are more problems there then they're letting on. And with the way that people like ESPN are making excuses for them so that they can keep people tuning into their daily Heat dramafest, those basketball guys arent providing the public with information on why they're so undisciplined and play with such little passion.

One thing's for sure though...It aint the coach.

bombay
03-04-2011, 10:26 PM
Ooh, didn't realize it was a home game for ny. Was there booing? It surely cant' be far behind when they realize they were sold a bill of goods.

bombay
03-04-2011, 10:31 PM
Oh, great highlights. So marshmelo's charge was pretty much the capper after he let Anthony Parker drill a three in his face. It almost looked like he was having a little one man strike sitting there on the floor pouting after commiting the charge. It's probably time for the league to sit those officials down and let them know just what an important man the marshmelo is.


lol. Hope he enjoys the boos to come.

vancejohnson82
03-04-2011, 10:44 PM
The Heat wont sniff the NBA Finals this year. They dont want to put in the work. They just want it handed to them.

Two straight embarrassing losses when they should be congealing and starting to be able to execute their offense and defense is showing that cracks are forming. Pat Riley looks furious every time I see him on camera. Usually after LeBron bricks another ill-advised 3-pointer when he should be taking the ball to the basket.

The Spurs are pretty good, but to get beat like this shows that there are more problems there then they're letting on. And with the way that people like ESPN are making excuses for them so that they can keep people tuning into their daily Heat dramafest, those basketball guys arent providing the public with information on why they're so undisciplined and play with such little passion.

One thing's for sure though...It aint the coach.

won't sniff the Finals? haha....care to wager?

bombay
03-04-2011, 10:45 PM
San Antonio blasts Miami by 30. ESPN told me last week that all of the power had flowed to the east. That's where all of the 'superstars' are now, and it's only going to get worse.

Very interesting. Seems like there are 1.5 good teams in the East. Boston, who's old and iffy and just traded their best big man, and Chicago who is genuinely dangerous and very unpredictable. Fully capable of falling on their faces on any given night.

epicSocialism4tw
03-04-2011, 10:54 PM
won't sniff the Finals? haha....care to wager?

There's no way that that rudderless mess beats Boston in 7 games. Or Chicago. NY might actually be better than they are.

Their egos have imploded that team in a really short span of time. Nobody knows what their roles are and nobody is willing to do what it takes for the team to win tough games. The idea that LeBrick is an MVP is a joke, and Wade is playing like he just doesnt really give a crap. Miller wants to care, but hes disengaged.

Tonight in the third quarter where the Heat got to within 12 or 14 (kind of sad to say but thats when it was its most competitive), Dampier, Miller, and Chalmers were directing players to their spots. They were the guys showing leadership. Thats a bad sign.

The Lakers can flip a switch and contest to win the whole thing, but the Heat havent even established that they can beat any teams who are worth beating. They're a massively overrated also-ran. They have nobody who can stop a pick n roll, nobody who can defend a point guard, nobody who can provide help defense at the basket...this is a team with alot of holes. And LeBrick/Wade/Bosh were so full of themselves that they thought it wouldnt matter. They thought that their three guys could beat anyone elses 5. Aint going to happen.

Jason in LA
03-05-2011, 10:06 AM
San Antonio blasts Miami by 30. ESPN told me last week that all of the power had flowed to the east. That's where all of the 'superstars' are now, and it's only going to get worse.

Very interesting. Seems like there are 1.5 good teams in the East. Boston, who's old and iffy and just traded their best big man, and Chicago who is genuinely dangerous and very unpredictable. Fully capable of falling on their faces on any given night.

The Lakers, Spurs, and Mavs don't think that all the talent is in the East.

vancejohnson82
03-05-2011, 11:14 AM
There's no way that that rudderless mess beats Boston in 7 games. Or Chicago. NY might actually be better than they are.

Their egos have imploded that team in a really short span of time. Nobody knows what their roles are and nobody is willing to do what it takes for the team to win tough games. The idea that LeBrick is an MVP is a joke, and Wade is playing like he just doesnt really give a crap. Miller wants to care, but hes disengaged.

Tonight in the third quarter where the Heat got to within 12 or 14 (kind of sad to say but thats when it was its most competitive), Dampier, Miller, and Chalmers were directing players to their spots. They were the guys showing leadership. Thats a bad sign.

The Lakers can flip a switch and contest to win the whole thing, but the Heat havent even established that they can beat any teams who are worth beating. They're a massively overrated also-ran. They have nobody who can stop a pick n roll, nobody who can defend a point guard, nobody who can provide help defense at the basket...this is a team with alot of holes. And LeBrick/Wade/Bosh were so full of themselves that they thought it wouldnt matter. They thought that their three guys could beat anyone elses 5. Aint going to happen.

i agree with you completely....except that I think they will turn it up in the playoffs, although they have given me no reason to think so

I actually picked out the same span of time to take away from that game. Whenever they got on a bit of a run and could sniff single digits, it was like their offensive sets went out the window. When they were down 20 and just playing run and gun, they played better because it was just put your head down and hit the basket or kick

Sepulstra should be out of there next year

epicSocialism4tw
03-05-2011, 12:06 PM
i agree with you completely....except that I think they will turn it up in the playoffs, although they have given me no reason to think so

I actually picked out the same span of time to take away from that game. Whenever they got on a bit of a run and could sniff single digits, it was like their offensive sets went out the window. When they were down 20 and just playing run and gun, they played better because it was just put your head down and hit the basket or kick

Sepulstra should be out of there next year

It has nothing to do with Spoelstra.

His players are looking for excuses to lose, and there's nothing he can do about that. He cant bench James. He cant bench Wade. He's in a catch-22. Its not Spoelstra's fault that James won't take the ball to the basket and instead pulls up for an ill-advised jump shot. Its not Spoelstra's fault that his star players act like they're just waiting for the game to be over so they can get to the club.

Its the fault of James, Wade, and to a lesser extent, Bosh.

To hear people complain about the coaching and the support players is funny. People will look for any excuse when the obvious problems are staring them right in the face. Its called denial.

bombay
03-05-2011, 01:18 PM
Not 5.. not 6.. not 7..... not....... any?

TDmvp
03-05-2011, 02:27 PM
except that I think they will turn it up in the playoffs, although they have given me no reason to think so





/ponder You think they will turn it on in the playoffs , but have no reason to think that Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious!


Dude they aint getting through the Celtics so stop thinking :clown:

cutthemdown
03-05-2011, 03:16 PM
Hopefully Fishers injury not too bad, but Lakers are on a little win streak right now. They are going to peak, and IMO get back to face the Celtics in an epic rematch of Shaq and Kobe.

maven
03-05-2011, 04:02 PM
There's no way that that rudderless mess beats Boston in 7 games. Or Chicago. NY might actually be better than they are.

Their egos have imploded that team in a really short span of time. Nobody knows what their roles are and nobody is willing to do what it takes for the team to win tough games. The idea that LeBrick is an MVP is a joke, and Wade is playing like he just doesnt really give a crap. Miller wants to care, but hes disengaged.

Tonight in the third quarter where the Heat got to within 12 or 14 (kind of sad to say but thats when it was its most competitive), Dampier, Miller, and Chalmers were directing players to their spots. They were the guys showing leadership. Thats a bad sign.

The Lakers can flip a switch and contest to win the whole thing, but the Heat havent even established that they can beat any teams who are worth beating. They're a massively overrated also-ran. They have nobody who can stop a pick n roll, nobody who can defend a point guard, nobody who can provide help defense at the basket...this is a team with alot of holes. And LeBrick/Wade/Bosh were so full of themselves that they thought it wouldnt matter. They thought that their three guys could beat anyone elses 5. Aint going to happen.

He lose 3 games in a row and the sky is falling.ROFL!

We'll see come playoff time.

ohiobronco2
03-05-2011, 04:03 PM
Not 5.. not 6.. not 7..... not....... any?

Hilarious!

epicSocialism4tw
03-05-2011, 09:13 PM
He lose 3 games in a row and the sky is falling.ROFL!

We'll see come playoff time.

No. They've lost 7 out of 8 against elite teams.

Its not just about 3 games in a row.

bombay
03-05-2011, 09:42 PM
Nuggets can't make a shot to save their lives, but are hanging in with pretty good D. Down 46-37 with 30 seconds left with Nene going to the line for two. Nene has a double double in the first half, 11 and 10. Makes one of two, 46-38. Afflalo out with an injury, Gordon out of the rest of the game with injury, Nene blocks one of Griffins big dunk attempts.

Still a winnable game, need to shoot a lot better. This is the first game they've looked like they've never met. 46-38 at the half. 17-51 for the Nuggets in the first half.

bombay
03-05-2011, 10:05 PM
Great assist from Kmart to nene for the dunk, Nene misses the free throw on the dumb**** foul by gomes, rebound goes to Chandler for the three 50-45, time out clips.

bombay
03-05-2011, 10:09 PM
Nene with a layup after an oop to Martin from Felton, 50-49. Martin fouls Griffin.

bombay
03-05-2011, 10:09 PM
Nuggets playing a little better than when they were down 16 in the 2nd.

bombay
03-05-2011, 10:17 PM
Wheels off again for the Nuggets, down 61-58.

bombay
03-05-2011, 10:39 PM
The desparate signing of Al Harrington last summer was the last, and one of the worst, attempts to prove to marshmelo that they were willing to spend money to put at better team around him, even when Harrington was simply a lesser, redundant marshmelo himself. Whoever did that should be fired.

Oh yeah, Bearup.

Nuggets playing better again all of a sudden.

maven
03-05-2011, 10:54 PM
No. They've lost 7 out of 8 against elite teams.

Its not just about 3 games in a row.

Last I checked, the Heat are still going to the playoffs.ROFL!

We'll see what happens come playoff time.

epicSocialism4tw
03-05-2011, 10:58 PM
Last I checked, the Heat are still going to the playoffs.ROFL!

We'll see what happens come playoff time.

Yeah, they'll get plenty of opportunities to lose to better teams in the playoffs.

epicSocialism4tw
03-05-2011, 11:07 PM
As for the Heat...they have alot to prove, and havent proven anything yet.

They've been a let-down from day 1.

Can they magically coalesce and win the championship? David Stern would love it, so I guess that anything can happen...but its a long shot. They arent a favorite.

Missouribronc
03-06-2011, 11:07 AM
What is with Miami's fans...that place is half empty for a nationally televised game...I can't think of any other arena in the league that would be half-empty for a nationally televised game between two top contenders in their respective conferences...

Missouribronc
03-06-2011, 01:29 PM
15 seconds left, Heat down by 1...let's see who takes the shot...

Missouribronc
03-06-2011, 01:31 PM
How about...LeBron AND Wade...

Terrible decision by LeBron to try and take Noah to the rim. He should have tried to stop and pop, and then Wade just missed the fadeaway on the rebound.

That doesn't help my argument, does it?