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Pony Boy
10-06-2010, 04:44 PM
Yep, they recognized his talents, and also his weaknesses, and as a result dumbed down their offense to accomodate him. Should we have done the same? Is Hillis that great that we should have completely altered our scheme to suit him?

Please....... it's not brain surgery inside the 10 yard line. run Hillis up the middle, off tackle, pitch to the outside or flair pass. How hard is that? Do you really think we need some tricky scheme inside the 10, maybe that's the problem?

Popps
10-06-2010, 05:24 PM
Please....... it's not brain surgery inside the 10 yard line. run Hillis up the middle, off tackle, pitch to the outside or flair pass. How hard is that? Do you really think we need some tricky scheme inside the 10, maybe that's the problem?

No, he asked you a good question and you're not answering it.

Kaylore detailed this perfectly.

Our offense requires certain things from its players. Do you think we should have altered the entire offense to accommodate one guy who couldn't pick it up? (And struggled on special teams.)

If so,what statement do you think that sends to the rest of the squad.

Have you ever played organized ball?

Popps
10-06-2010, 05:27 PM
Here's Hillis in a "blocking" drill trying to stop a linebacker.

If this is how he practices (and it's been speculated).... no wonder he was never able to earn a starting role at any position.

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BroncoInferno
10-06-2010, 06:24 PM
Please....... it's not brain surgery inside the 10 yard line. run Hillis up the middle, off tackle, pitch to the outside or flair pass. How hard is that? Do you really think we need some tricky scheme inside the 10, maybe that's the problem?

I wasn't talking about "inside the 10 yard line." I already acknowledged that in obvious short-yardage running situations we probably should have given Hillis more of a shot (which would have amounted to a handful of touches a game). I'm talking about dumbing down the entire offense so he could get 20 carries a game. Should we have done that?

Arkie
10-06-2010, 07:16 PM
all purpose yards = 1210 in limited duty

Missouribronc
10-06-2010, 07:39 PM
Here's Hillis in a "blocking" drill trying to stop a linebacker.

If this is how he practices (and it's been speculated).... no wonder he was never able to earn a starting role at any position.

That shouldn't be a shocker to anyone.

txtebow
10-06-2010, 07:45 PM
Hillis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Brady Quinn

Pony Boy
10-06-2010, 08:01 PM
I wasn't talking about "inside the 10 yard line." I already acknowledged that in obvious short-yardage running situations we probably should have given Hillis more of a shot (which would have amounted to a handful of touches a game). I'm talking about dumbing down the entire offense so he could get 20 carries a game. Should we have done that?

No, I never said he should get 20 carries a game but he should have been used for what we drafted him for a FB/H-back or short yardage back, but this is where disagree, I don't think you need to dumb down the offence for Hillis, I had season tickets at Arkansas the entire time Hillis was there. He was probably the most versatile player on the team. It was obvious from day one McDanielís didn't want Hillis or Scheffler and thatís fine it's his team but Hillis is a player and Cleveland will benefit from the trade.

Taco John
10-06-2010, 08:20 PM
No, he asked you a good question and you're not answering it.

Kaylore detailed this perfectly.

Our offense requires certain things from its players. Do you think we should have altered the entire offense to accommodate one guy who couldn't pick it up? (And struggled on special teams.)

If so,what statement do you think that sends to the rest of the squad.

Have you ever played organized ball?



These mysterious special certain things from players that keep being referred to. What exactly are they? Because from what I can tell, the ability to make a defender miss a tackle (let alone blow through it) doesn't appear to be one of them. I guess I'm not clear on what these special abilities are that apparently our runningbacks have that Hillis doesn't.

I'll go ahead and list the obvious one that you're going to the bucket:
1. Apparently you think he's too stupid. I'm not too impressed with this reason, but I'll accept that it's one that you're adamant on.

What else?

Pony Boy
10-06-2010, 08:22 PM
If this is how he practices (and it's been speculated).... no wonder he was never able to earn a starting role at any position.

So do you think we could use a little of this type of effort......

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vancejohnson82
10-06-2010, 08:23 PM
These mysterious special certain things from players that keep being referred to. What exactly are they? Because from what I can tell, the ability to make a defender miss a tackle (let alone blow through it) doesn't appear to be one of them. I guess I'm not clear on what these special abilities are that apparently our runningbacks have that Hillis doesn't.

I'll go ahead and list the obvious one that you're going to the bucket:
1. Apparently you think he's too stupid. I'm not too impressed with this reason, but I'll accept that it's one that you're adamant on.

What else?

Pass Blocking

baja
10-06-2010, 08:26 PM
These mysterious special certain things from players that keep being referred to. What exactly are they? Because from what I can tell, the ability to make a defender miss a tackle (let alone blow through it) doesn't appear to be one of them. I guess I'm not clear on what these special abilities are that apparently our runningbacks have that Hillis doesn't.

I'll go ahead and list the obvious one that you're going to the bucket:
1. Apparently you think he's too stupid. I'm not too impressed with this reason, but I'll accept that it's one that you're adamant on.

What else?

That damn Popps just doesn't appreciate a 5 tool player.

baja
10-06-2010, 08:26 PM
These mysterious special certain things from players that keep being referred to. What exactly are they? Because from what I can tell, the ability to make a defender miss a tackle (let alone blow through it) doesn't appear to be one of them. I guess I'm not clear on what these special abilities are that apparently our runningbacks have that Hillis doesn't.

I'll go ahead and list the obvious one that you're going to the bucket:
1. Apparently you think he's too stupid. I'm not too impressed with this reason, but I'll accept that it's one that you're adamant on.

What else?

Hey what was our bet again?

Dagmar
10-06-2010, 08:36 PM
Hey what was our bet again?

Touchdowns. Stupid hamstring.

TotallyScrewed
10-06-2010, 08:37 PM
Here's Hillis in a "blocking" drill trying to stop a linebacker.

If this is how he practices (and it's been speculated).... no wonder he was never able to earn a starting role at any position.

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Who can say from ONE practice play? But for as much celebration as many of his teammates had, I'd say it was something special. Or maybe their just dumb.

strafen
10-06-2010, 08:40 PM
I wasn't talking about "inside the 10 yard line." I already acknowledged that in obvious short-yardage running situations we probably should have given Hillis more of a shot (which would have amounted to a handful of touches a game). I'm talking about dumbing down the entire offense so he could get 20 carries a game. Should we have done that?This is just a bullcrap originated here in the mane by a few of you.
There's never been any indication of that outside this forum.
Mcdaniels just didn't want to play the guy for some reason, and when he finally gave him a good handful of carries last year against the chiefs, everybody downplayed his performance by saying it was during garbage time. Even so, nobody could run the ball like that. In fact, that was vintage Hillis. That's how he plays whether is garbage time or not, and that's what we could use right now...

strafen
10-06-2010, 08:47 PM
So do you think we could use a little of this type of effort......

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It's funny how they keep talking about the guy being dumb, that can't do this and he can't do that, yet, there's nobody on our roster that can perform like that. Hillis has been doing this his whole career so far; and nothing out of his performance on Sundays has been able to prove what these idiots are trying to propagate in any way, shape or form.

Dagmar
10-06-2010, 08:56 PM
And around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around...

BroncoInferno
10-06-2010, 09:01 PM
No, I never said he should get 20 carries a game but he should have been used for what we drafted him for a FB/H-back or short yardage back, but this is where disagree, I don't think you need to dumb down the offence for Hillis, I had season tickets at Arkansas the entire time Hillis was there. He was probably the most versatile player on the team. It was obvious from day one McDanielís didn't want Hillis or Scheffler and thatís fine it's his team but Hillis is a player and Cleveland will benefit from the trade.

"Versatile" is a subjective term. You think he's versatile because he was a good runner and receiver in a far less complex collegiate offense. Being "versatile" at the NFL level means more than that...it means picking up blitzes, understanding how to perform your function within a complex offense, knowing what route to run depending on the defense OR when to pick up a block...etc.

BroncoInferno
10-06-2010, 09:05 PM
These mysterious special certain things from players that keep being referred to. What exactly are they? Because from what I can tell, the ability to make a defender miss a tackle (let alone blow through it) doesn't appear to be one of them. I guess I'm not clear on what these special abilities are that apparently our runningbacks have that Hillis doesn't.

I'll go ahead and list the obvious one that you're going to the bucket:
1. Apparently you think he's too stupid. I'm not too impressed with this reason, but I'll accept that it's one that you're adamant on.

What else?

1) Picking up blitzes when asked to stay in to block.
2) Knowing what route to run when a given pass play has multiple possible routes depending on the defensive coverage.
3) Knowing the blocking scheme based on the defense.
4) Knowing the various audibles based on a defensive read.

Does that help?

strafen
10-06-2010, 09:08 PM
"Versatile" is a subjective term. You think he's versatile because he was a good runner and receiver in a far less complex collegiate offense. Being "versatile" at the NFL level means more than that...it means picking up blitzes, understanding how to perform your function within a complex offense, knowing what route to run depending on the defense OR when to pick up a block...etc.Are you referring to Richard Quinn or Peyton Hillis?

BroncoInferno
10-06-2010, 09:09 PM
This is just a bullcrap originated here in the mane by a few of you.
There's never been any indication of that outside this forum.
Mcdaniels just didn't want to play the guy for some reason, and when he finally gave him a good handful of carries last year against the chiefs, everybody downplayed his performance by saying it was during garbage time. Even so, nobody could run the ball like that. In fact, that was vintage Hillis. That's how he plays whether is garbage time or not, and that's what we could use right now...

No, dumbass. It's obvious from watching the sorts of plays that Cleveland is running versus us. They are running extremely simplistic offensive plays that don't require Hillis to have to think too much about what he is doing. If you think we should be running that sort of dumbed down offense to accomodate him...fine. Say so. You just look ignorant otherwise.

BroncoInferno
10-06-2010, 09:10 PM
Are you referring to Richard Quinn or Peyton Hillis?

Yeah, Quinn looks like a bad pick. And McDaniels isn't giving him much playing time as a result. What does that have to do with Hillis?

strafen
10-06-2010, 09:10 PM
1) Picking up blitzes when asked to stay in to block.
2) Knowing what route to run when a given pass play has multiple possible routes depending on the defensive coverage.
3) Knowing the blocking scheme based on the defense.
4) Knowing the various audibles based on a defensive read.

Does that help?How has that ever been an issue on a game where Hillis has carried the ball for more than 12 carries at least?
Please, tell me how's that ever been relevant or a hindrance to Hillis success thus far?

strafen
10-06-2010, 09:13 PM
Yeah, Quinn looks like a bad pick. And McDaniels isn't giving him much playing time as a result. What does that have to do with Hillis?Haven't you forgotten what we gave up to get Quinn?
It does have to do with Hillis in the sense that what you've been saying about Hillis, applies better to Quinn than it does to Hillis and with evidence to back it up...

BroncoInferno
10-06-2010, 09:14 PM
How has that ever been an issue on a game where Hillis has carried the ball for more than 12 carries at least?
Please, tell me how's that ever been relevant or a hindrance to Hillis success thus far?

What do you mean, "how has that been a hindrance?" Just because he has nice stats does not mean he picked up the blitz well in pass coverage, or ran the proper routes dending on the defensive coverage, or had a clear understanding of the audible system and what to do thereof....you're pretty ignorant of football.

Arkie
10-06-2010, 09:19 PM
Hillis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Brady Quinn

Hillis and and 6th round pick and a conditional pick to boot just for Brady. Do the Broncos have any picks left?

BroncoInferno
10-06-2010, 09:21 PM
Haven't you forgotten what we gave up to get Quinn?

No, it was a bad pick, and I thought so at the time. Fortunately, McD has not compounded the problem by playing him anyway.


It does have to do with Hillis in the sense that what you've been saying about Hillis, applies better to Quinn than it does to Hillis and with evidence to back it up...

No, actually, it HELPS my argument. Quinn doesn't do those things well, and he subsequently has had little playing time. McD doesn't care if it makes him look bad to have a 2nd rounder that he traded up for riding the pine. He won't play him unless he does all the little things well. That HELPS the argument, you football ignoramous. And, yes, there is CLEAR evidence that has already been presented in this thread that it applies to Hillis. Furthermore, why wouldn't McD have played Hillis if this portrait wasn't accurate? There's no good reason. Because he drafted Moreno in the 1st? He drafted Ayers in the 1st and had him riding the pine till he was ready. He traded Smith even though he invested a 1st in him. Clearly, McD will admit mistakes and play the guys who fuction in his systems the way he wants. The evidence is there and makes you look like an ignorant fool.

Dr. Broncenstein
10-06-2010, 09:26 PM
These mysterious special certain things from players that keep being referred to. What exactly are they? Because from what I can tell, the ability to make a defender miss a tackle (let alone blow through it) doesn't appear to be one of them. I guess I'm not clear on what these special abilities are that apparently our runningbacks have that Hillis doesn't.

I'll go ahead and list the obvious one that you're going to the bucket:
1. Apparently you think he's too stupid. I'm not too impressed with this reason, but I'll accept that it's one that you're adamant on.

What else?

The ability to drop passes out of the backfield. Case in point: Maroney @ Tennessee. He repeatedly makes the easy catch look impossible. He made up for that by completely failing in pass protection. But in theory he understands the intricacies of McD's cold fusion perpetual motion machine. And he is sporting the nettypot of male hair fashion. Bonus points for being another Belichick reclamation project.

strafen
10-06-2010, 09:28 PM
What do you mean, "how has that been a hindrance?" Just because he has nice stats does not mean he picked up the blitz well in pass coverage, or ran the proper routes dending on the defensive coverage, or had a clear understanding of the audible system and what to do thereof....you're pretty ignorant of football.I'm not claiming he's a great FB all around.
Perhaps in my ignorance about football I'd dare to say you play a guy using his strength qualities to help you win football games?

You're talking about Hillis being a bad blocker in pass protection and all of that; how many games have YOU seen him play like that when you finally concluded he's what you're saying he is?
One, two games?
You know, like a QB got knocked out of a game because of a missed assignment or block or even one that might have directly led to a loss?

Forgive the guy for not being perfect. Trying to come up with some trivial BS that happens to the best of players at least once or twice just to justify McDaniels made the right decision, is laughable.
All it matters is what the guy does on Sundays.

Dr. Broncenstein
10-06-2010, 09:31 PM
1) Picking up blitzes when asked to stay in to block.
2) Knowing what route to run when a given pass play has multiple possible routes depending on the defensive coverage.
3) Knowing the blocking scheme based on the defense.
4) Knowing the various audibles based on a defensive read.

Does that help?

So Maroney has this down pat, right? Especially that whole picking up blitzes part? He does get open in the passing game, I'll give you that. Works out great, too.

footstepsfrom#27
10-06-2010, 09:35 PM
So because 4 games into the season he has the 8th most rushing yards Hillis is the 8th best RB in the league? You might want to be careful throwing the word "fail" around...
Never assume what I'm saying unless I say it. I say EXACTLY what I mean, and I did not say he was the 8th best back...just making a point.

strafen
10-06-2010, 09:42 PM
No, it was a bad pick, and I thought so at the time. Fortunately, McD has not compounded the problem by playing him anyway.




No, actually, it HELPS my argument. Quinn doesn't do those things well, and he subsequently has had little playing time. McD doesn't care if it makes him look bad to have a 2nd rounder that he traded up for riding the pine. He won't play him unless he does all the little things well. That HELPS the argument, you football ignoramous. And, yes, there is CLEAR evidence that has already been presented in this thread that it applies to Hillis. Furthermore, why wouldn't McD have played Hillis if this portrait wasn't accurate? There's no good reason. Because he drafted Moreno in the 1st? He drafted Ayers in the 1st and had him riding the pine till he was ready. He traded Smith even though he invested a 1st in him. Clearly, McD will admit mistakes and play the guys who fuction in his systems the way he wants. The evidence is there and makes you look like an ignorant fool.Let me keep expanding on my ignorance since you keep insisting on.

In a draft (2009) when our most pressing need was DEFENSE and for McDaniels to go out and spend a 12th overall pick on a running back that played only two years in college; ...do you think a rookie headcoach was going to sit him on the bench and not use him?
That's one reason.
The other reason is that I'm pretty confident that had McDaniels played Hillis at a tune of at least 15 carries a game, that Moreno would've never played as much as he did last year.
McDaniels knew that, and he was better served keeping Hillis under a shadow than having to deal with the criticism and heavy questoning about favoring a RB that was clearly not ready to play that much (Moreno actually admitted this) over a proven Hillis...

Bronco_Fan_27
10-06-2010, 09:50 PM
Get over it guys.. by the way or o-line is playing, i don't think the answer to all our running problems would be hillis anyway

Archer81
10-06-2010, 10:12 PM
1. Let me keep expanding on my ignorance since you keep on insisting.

2. In a draft (2009) when our most pressing need was DEFENSE and for McDaniels to go out and spend a 12th overall pick on a running back that played only two years in college


1. You are getting increasingly good at displaying your ignorance, so by all means continue.

2. It seems at the time that most people said all our 2nd ranked offense needed was the bellcow back to pair with the almighty Hillis to solidify the running game. Moreno was seen as a back who would fit McDaniels offense.

But please continue rewriting the last two years. I am sure at some point someone will believe you until they actually check on it and find out what a fraud you are.

:Broncos:

strafen
10-06-2010, 10:18 PM
1. You are getting increasingly good at displaying your ignorance, so by all means continue.

2. It seems at the time that most people said all our 2nd ranked offense needed was the bellcow back to pair with the almighty Hillis to solidify the running game. Moreno was seen as a back who would fit McDaniels offense.

But please continue rewriting the last two years. I am sure at some point someone will believe you until they actually check on it and find out what a fraud you are.

:Broncos:Yup, saying we needed defensive help in 2009 and grabbing a RB instead with our 12th pick, shows my ignorance.
This is football. A football forum. You're on the wrong place, bud Ha!

Archer81
10-06-2010, 10:27 PM
Yup, saying we needed defensive help in 2009 and grabbing a RB instead with our 12th pick, shows my ignorance.
This is football. A football forum. You're on the wrong place, bud Ha!


4 of the first 6 picks from 2009 were defense. Or that Denver's 2nd first round pick, Robert Ayres went 18th overall and currently plays OLB.

You want to rethink your position there, bubbles?

Do you even watch the team?

:Broncos:

strafen
10-06-2010, 10:31 PM
4 of the first 6 picks from 2009 were defense. Or that Denver's 2nd first round pick, Robert Ayres went 18th overall and currently plays OLB.

You want to rethink your position there, bubbles?

Do you even watch the team?

:Broncos:Players we could've had; Clay Mathews, Orakpo, Cushings and Maualuga.
We could've had two quality starters on defense, not a RB we didn't really need to get that high...cupcake

Archer81
10-06-2010, 10:41 PM
Players we could've hat. Clay Matthews, Oakpo, Cushings and Maualuga.
We could've had two quality started on defense, not a RB we didn't really need to get that high...cupcake


Yes. and in 2001 we could have had ED REEEED.

Bringing up players we could have had if we had 5 first round picks does not change the fact that Denver went defense early in the draft, which spotlights your ridiculous opinion.

So, you fail yet again bubbles.

:Broncos:

strafen
10-06-2010, 10:44 PM
Yes. and in 2001 we could have had ED REEEED.

Bringing up players we could have had if we had 5 first round picks does not change the fact that Denver went defense early in the draft, which spotlights your ridiculous opinion.

So, you fail yet again bubbles.

:Broncos:Move on dude.
I've got no interest in engaging in any kind of debate with you or whatsoever... :wave:
It was a good debate until you've joined in with your drama queen revelations

Dr. Broncenstein
10-06-2010, 10:53 PM
Hillis is a dumb hick who couldn't do the little things right. That's why he's gone and we traded for Maroney. Maroney does the little things that are required to play in McD's cold fusion perpetual motion machine:

1. He picks up the blitz effectively:
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2. He is a reliable safety valve in the passing game:

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3. He hits the open hole with authority, and can account for the unblocked defender with power and/or elusiveness:

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Dagmar
10-06-2010, 10:58 PM
Yes. and in 2001 we could have had ED REEEED.

Bringing up players we could have had if we had 5 first round picks does not change the fact that Denver went defense early in the draft, which spotlights your ridiculous opinion.

So, you fail yet again bubbles.

:Broncos:

I think the post below show's you won. Good job cupcake! :strong:

strafen
10-06-2010, 10:59 PM
Hillis is a dumb hick who couldn't do the little things right. That's why he's gone and we traded for Maroney. Maroney does the little things that is required to play in McD's cold fusion perpetual motion machine:

1. He picks up the blitz effectively:
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2. He is an effective safety valve in the passing game:

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bKOZokpaqR4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bKOZokpaqR4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XbrcYK-BqgY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XbrcYK-BqgY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

3. He hits the open hole with authority, and can account for the unblocked defender with power and/or elusiveness:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vKBJMntmARE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vKBJMntmARE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>Dude!!!
I've got tears running down my face. That's freaking hilarious, man! ROFL!
Too funny! LOL
We're only out a 4th rounder for that! :wiggle:

Taco John
10-06-2010, 11:47 PM
1) Picking up blitzes when asked to stay in to block.
2) Knowing what route to run when a given pass play has multiple possible routes depending on the defensive coverage.
3) Knowing the blocking scheme based on the defense.
4) Knowing the various audibles based on a defensive read.

Does that help?


So basically, we gave up on the guy and went chasing our tails on guys like Fargas and Maroney on stuff that is coachable simply because he didn't get it in his first four games. Everything you listed is coachable. Every last one.

I have zero reason to believe that Hillis wouldn't be able to contribute to this team.

Taco John
10-06-2010, 11:48 PM
Hillis is a dumb hick who couldn't do the little things right. That's why he's gone and we traded for Maroney. Maroney does the little things that are required to play in McD's cold fusion perpetual motion machine:

1. He picks up the blitz effectively:
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OaYdQxe1nJo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OaYdQxe1nJo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

2. He is a reliable safety valve in the passing game:

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bKOZokpaqR4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bKOZokpaqR4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XbrcYK-BqgY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XbrcYK-BqgY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

3. He hits the open hole with authority, and can account for the unblocked defender with power and/or elusiveness:

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vKBJMntmARE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vKBJMntmARE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


Where is that graphic of the canon taking a dude's head off?

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 05:12 AM
Are you ****ing serious right now?

The 1st video was a sack by the DT, DEFENSIVE TACKLE, and you're calling him out for unblocking a DLINEMAN that was supposed to be the player "BLITZING"? You're telling me that you really think that the DT was the responsibility of a RUNNING BACK and not the interior LINEMAN, in this case, J.D. WALTON? You're really CALLING a DT the blitzer, not the SAFETY in which Maroney had his eyes on?

So you're telling me that supposedly, Maroney didn't "pick" up his blitz, did you ever take into ****ing consideration that maybe J.D. Walton picked up the wrong person by going over to pick up the SAFETY, CHRIS HOPE which was, obviously, a REAL "blitzer." No, this isn't a possibility at all. No way, Maroney was probably responsible for the Defensive Tackle, weighing over 300 pounds, not the SAFETY, that weighs 204. Yeah, coaches really design protection schemes so the RB's have to block dlineman 1 on 1, especially DT's.

Watch the ****ing play, there is 6 rushers, 6 pass protectors, you think Walton's assignment on that play was a SAFETY and not a DT?

**** it though, lets just SAY I'm wrong about the sizes of the blockers and rushers don't have anything to do with protection, let's just sy that regardless if it's a DT or S rushing the passer, regardless of size and just label them as a "rusher".

How the **** do you know that, it was Maroney's **** up and not J.D. Walton? Why the **** would you just assume this?

After I watched your 1st video I said **** the rest of your garbage.

Spend more time making videos on negative BS at the detriment the Broncos players in light of a player that is NOT on the team anymore. For what? REALLY? For what? Does it feel GOOD to talk sh*t about the Denver Broncos and then still come out looking like a ****in idiot because your vision is clogged in dog sh*t?

And you still **** up. That's how ****in jaded you people's vision has become.

You should change this forum name to Brownsh*t, that's the colors your team allegiances are truly with, all due to 1 player.

http://forums.dawgbones.com/

http://media.cleveland.com/startingblocks/photo/peyton-hillis-nopadsjpg-0a4b06a3fbb8e3a0_large.jpg

Or maybe this is the ORANGEmane, but not the orange and blue

http://mapkernow.com/nfl-football-helmets/cleveland-browns-authentic-pro-line-revolution-full-size-riddell-helmet.jpg

Dr. Broncenstein
10-07-2010, 05:24 AM
LOL U Mad.

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 05:27 AM
LOL U Mad.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/kobe.gif

YOU.......

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/stfdkd37/289llkh.gif

Dr. Broncenstein
10-07-2010, 05:39 AM
"Spend more time making videos to the detriment of the Denver Broncos players." Golly gee, I never thought about the potential ramifications. I only hope it isn't too late.

Lulz...

Dr. Broncenstein
10-07-2010, 05:46 AM
Dear Mr. Maroney,

I'm truly sorry for posting highlight clips demonstrating your mastery of McD's offense. It has been pointed out that this could be at your detriment. In the wise words of Kyle Orton, this is "my bad." Please take this into consideration before letting my actions effect you in a detrimental manner.

Sincerly,

Doc B

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 05:56 AM
"Spend more time making videos to the detriment of the Denver Broncos players." Golly gee, I never thought about the potential ramifications. I only hope it isn't too late.

Lulz...

Let's reword that sentence:

"Spend more time making videos to the DISADVANTAGE of the Denver Broncos players."

Does that make more sense for you? Or should I be blunt and say:

That sentence means, you're making videos that show the negative plays in attempt to put the Denver Broncos players at a disadvantage (in this case, to Hillis).

I am not saying you're hurting his feelings or this has anything to do with the players personally or their feelings.

lulz.

lol @ you for trying to deflect in attempt to turn this into sarcasm though.

Dr. Broncenstein
10-07-2010, 06:02 AM
Let's reword that sentence:

"Spend more time making videos to the DISADVANTAGE of the Denver Broncos players."

Does that make more sense for you? Or should I be blunt and say:

That sentence means, you're making videos that show the negative plays in attempt to put the Denver Broncos players at a disadvantage (in this case, to Hillis).

I am not saying you're hurting his feelings or this has anything to do with the players personally or their feelings.

lulz.

lol @ you for trying to deflect in attempt to turn this into sarcasm though.

Maybe you could pick up a dictionary and look up the word sarcasm. Then look back at my post. Then revisit the dictionary and discover the picture of my post in the dictionary under the word sarcasm.

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 06:05 AM
Maybe you could pick up a dictionary and look up the word sarcasm. Then look back at my post. Then revisit the dictionary and discover the picture of my post in the dictionary under the word sarcasm.

The word fits your posts fine.

What, are we turning this into a grammar war now?
LOL

like I said

YOU.......


http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/stfdkd37/289llkh.gif

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 06:12 AM
I'm done. You've obviously given up and derailed this topic. You're posts have nothing to do with the content of my post or the topic. Clearly, you're back pedaling. You've basically said:

"You, The MVPlaya made me your b****. I will now try something else to retaliate to get off this damn leash."

EDIT:
I'll let other users go back a page and look @ your post and then read mine and have them chime in and continue from there.

in TJ's request:
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/lost_his_head.gif

Dr. Broncenstein
10-07-2010, 06:19 AM
I needed to read an early morning meltdown. It's way better than this boring old coffee.

ELEVATION
10-07-2010, 06:27 AM
Yup, saying we needed defensive help in 2009 and grabbing a RB instead with our 12th pick, shows my ignorance.
This is football. A football forum. You're on the wrong place, bud Ha!

no defensive players fit at pick 12, orakpo wasn't thought as a good fit for the 3-4, we needed a Rb and got 1 and then drafted a guy mayock feels will be the best defensive player in that draft class in 3 years at 18....seems to me we addressed defense......

strafen
10-07-2010, 06:48 AM
I'm done. You've obviously given up and derailed this topic. You're posts have nothing to do with the content of my post or the topic. Clearly, you're back pedaling. You've basically said:

"You, The MVPlaya made me your b****. I will now try something else to retaliate to get off this damn leash."

EDIT:
I'll let other users go back a page and look @ your post and then read mine and have them chime in and continue from there.

in TJ's request:
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/lost_his_head.gifYou are the ultimate consumate idiot.

Pony Boy
10-07-2010, 07:11 AM
Are you ****ing serious right now?

After I watched your 1st video I said **** the rest of your garbage.

Spend more time making videos on negative BS at the detriment the Broncos players in light of a player that is NOT on the team anymore. For what? REALLY? For what? Does it feel GOOD to talk sh*t about the Denver Broncos and then still come out looking like a ****in idiot because your vision is clogged in dog sh*t?

And you still **** up. That's how ****in jaded you people's vision has become.

You should change this forum name to Brownsh*t, that's the colors your team allegiances are truly with, all due to 1 player.


Ah yes ........ I love the smell of meltdowns in the morning ......:rofl:

strafen
10-07-2010, 07:15 AM
Are you ****ing serious right now?

The 1st video was a sack by the DT, DEFENSIVE TACKLE, and you're calling him out for unblocking a DLINEMAN that was supposed to be the player "BLITZING"? You're telling me that you really think that the DT was the responsibility of a RUNNING BACK and not the interior LINEMAN, in this case, J.D. WALTON? You're really CALLING a DT the blitzer, not the SAFETY in which Maroney had his eyes on?

So you're telling me that supposedly, Maroney didn't "pick" up his blitz, did you ever take into ****ing consideration that maybe J.D. Walton picked up the wrong person by going over to pick up the SAFETY, CHRIS HOPE which was, obviously, a REAL "blitzer." No, this isn't a possibility at all. No way, Maroney was probably responsible for the Defensive Tackle, weighing over 300 pounds, not the SAFETY, that weighs 204. Yeah, coaches really design protection schemes so the RB's have to block dlineman 1 on 1, especially DT's.

Watch the ****ing play, there is 6 rushers, 6 pass protectors, you think Walton's assignment on that play was a SAFETY and not a DT?

**** it though, lets just SAY I'm wrong about the sizes of the blockers and rushers don't have anything to do with protection, let's just sy that regardless if it's a DT or S rushing the passer, regardless of size and just label them as a "rusher".

How the **** do you know that, it was Maroney's **** up and not J.D. Walton? Why the **** would you just assume this?

After I watched your 1st video I said **** the rest of your garbage.

Spend more time making videos on negative BS at the detriment the Broncos players in light of a player that is NOT on the team anymore. For what? REALLY? For what? Does it feel GOOD to talk sh*t about the Denver Broncos and then still come out looking like a ****in idiot because your vision is clogged in dog sh*t?

And you still **** up. That's how ****in jaded you people's vision has become.

You should change this forum name to Brownsh*t, that's the colors your team allegiances are truly with, all due to 1 player.

Or maybe this is the ORANGEmane, but not the orange and blue

I nominate this post as the melt-down post of the year! :thumbsup:

strafen
10-07-2010, 07:18 AM
Let's reword that sentence:

"Spend more time making videos to the DISADVANTAGE of the Denver Broncos players."

Does that make more sense for you? Or should I be blunt and say:

That sentence means, you're making videos that show the negative plays in attempt to put the Denver Broncos players at a disadvantage (in this case, to Hillis).

I am not saying you're hurting his feelings or this has anything to do with the players personally or their feelings.

lulz.

lol @ you for trying to deflect in attempt to turn this into sarcasm though.It is what it is.
Have any video of Baloney doing great things in that game?
I'm sure whatever good he did -if any- was all on his own awesomeness...

BroncoInferno
10-07-2010, 07:23 AM
Let me keep expanding on my ignorance since you keep insisting on.

In a draft (2009) when our most pressing need was DEFENSE and for McDaniels to go out and spend a 12th overall pick on a running back that played only two years in college; ...do you think a rookie headcoach was going to sit him on the bench and not use him?
That's one reason.
The other reason is that I'm pretty confident that had McDaniels played Hillis at a tune of at least 15 carries a game, that Moreno would've never played as much as he did last year.
McDaniels knew that, and he was better served keeping Hillis under a shadow than having to deal with the criticism and heavy questoning about favoring a RB that was clearly not ready to play that much (Moreno actually admitted this) over a proven Hillis...

I already anticipated that argument and explained why it was a piss poor argument, and you ignored it. But I'll try again.

McD cut ties with a guy in Alphonso Smith after one season even though he traded a 1st rounder to get him. So, the notion that he will play someone to simply "save face" does not add up. The same thing is going on with Richard Quinn. He's getting little playing time even though McD invested a high pick in him. The point being, there is clear evidence that McD will play who ever he feels executes the best. The argument that he didn't play Hillis because he knew he was better than Moreno and it would make him look bad is, quite frankly, stupid.

BroncoInferno
10-07-2010, 07:30 AM
So basically, we gave up on the guy and went chasing our tails on guys like Fargas and Maroney on stuff that is coachable simply because he didn't get it in his first four games. Everything you listed is coachable. Every last one.

I have zero reason to believe that Hillis wouldn't be able to contribute to this team.

Obviously, McD didn't believe so. Do you know Hillis personally? Do you know that he has the brains to pick up an extremely complex offense? NO, you don't. I don't either, BUT I've heard McD pretty much elude to that fact without being blunt enough to call him dumb, and I've seen the Browns run an extremely simplistic offense to accomodate him. The evidence supports the conclusion that Hillis has trouble with complex NFL schemes. Now, if you think we should have dumbed things down to accomodate him, that's fine.

Rabb
10-07-2010, 07:32 AM
I put MVP on ignore a couple days ago after he went after me like a child, I would suggest doing the same thing to the rest of you

it makes the day much brighter

Mediator12
10-07-2010, 07:39 AM
This is entirely too much.

NOT every player can play in every system. PERIOD! That is why Hillis was a late draft pick. He is limited in the scope of his play and brings less value to teams based on that skillset.

Hillis did Something to piss off McDaniels and he traded him. I have no idea why, but its done. Hillis is refocused in CLE and God Bless him. It is a brutal business and he is making a better go of it there. Same thing with Alphonso Smith in DET. Sometimes, a trade works well for BOTH TEAMS. Get over IT!

TonyR
10-07-2010, 07:57 AM
So basically, we gave up on the guy and went chasing our tails on guys like Fargas and Maroney...

Agree that Hillis could "contribute" but we went "chasing our tails" more because Moreno and Buckhalter were banged up, and LenDale White got hurt, than anything even remotely having to do with Hillis. I know that reality doesn't fit your agenda but the circumstances were what they were long after Hillis was traded. I don't think there was an expectation for our top two RB's to miss the entire preseason.

Dagmar
10-07-2010, 08:39 AM
Derrick Ward says the Bucs don't actually want to win (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/07/derrick-ward-says-the-bucs-dont-actually-want-to-win/)

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on October 7, 2010 9:34 AM ET
Texans running back Derrick Ward (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2925) blames his ex-employers the Buccaneers for a lot of things. He says the organization spread the word he was overweight and not motivated. Oh, and they weren't very good either (http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2010/10/former_giants_running_back_der.html).

The Texans, on the other hand, are "a team that actually wants to block for their running backs, actually wants to win and doesn't set their goals to a [lower] standard," Ward said, via Mike Garafolo of the Newark Star-Ledger.

Ward faces his other ex-team the Giants this week, and wants to improve on the five-carry, two-yard performance he had against Big Blue last season.

"I didn't play against them the way I wanted to. This year, I'm on a better team, a team that actually wants to win, compete and get to that next level," Ward said. "So to play the Giants is going to be better for me this year."

Playing in place of a temporarily benched Arian Foster (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5469), Ward racked up 80 yards on 12 carries last week against the Raiders. (Proving once again how blocking matters more than the running back.) Texans coach Gary Kubiak says Ward will become a bigger part of the Houston offense.

The way Ward sees it, his time in Tampa is no longer even a memory.

"I feel like I went straight from New York to Houston," Ward said.

CEH
10-07-2010, 09:08 AM
This is entirely too much.

NOT every player can play in every system. PERIOD! That is why Hillis was a late draft pick. He is limited in the scope of his play and brings less value to teams based on that skillset.

Hillis did Something to piss off McDaniels and he traded him. I have no idea why, but its done. Hillis is refocused in CLE and God Bless him. It is a brutal business and he is making a better go of it there. Same thing with Alphonso Smith in DET. Sometimes, a trade works well for BOTH TEAMS. Get over IT!

I'm over it. I'm just going to sit back and watch Hillis go for 1200 and 12 TDs

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 04:22 PM
I put MVP on ignore a couple days ago after he went after me like a child, I would suggest doing the same thing to the rest of you

it makes the day much brighter

I went at you like a child?

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=2960409#post2960409

Read again. I'm not sure how you'd consider that childish, what posting a picture? The posts I made were straight forward.

listopencil
10-07-2010, 04:34 PM
Are you ****ing serious right now?



Really? The defender ran right by him completely unblocked. C'mon. That's a lack of vision. It doesn't mean that Maroney has to make that play to be considered decent, it just shows that picking up a rusher isn't a strength of his. Which was the point of the post.

And you conveniently ignored every other bit of video? What a crock of ****.

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 04:35 PM
Really? The defender ran right by him completely unblocked. C'mon. That's a lack of vision. It doesn't mean that Maroney has to make that play to be considered decent, it just shows that picking up a rusher isn't a strength of his. Which was the point of the post.

And you conveniently ignored every other bit of video? What a crock of ****.

I am not sure how you read my post and came up with that post.

listopencil
10-07-2010, 04:36 PM
I am not sure how you read my post and came up with that post.

Well it was pretty easy. It's what you typed.

Br0nc0Buster
10-07-2010, 04:37 PM
Taco should change the video on the front page to Hillis highlights

Popps
10-07-2010, 04:38 PM
I'm over it. I'm just going to sit back and watch Hillis go for 1200 and 12 TDs

Problem is, you're admiring the wrong player.(s)

But, your average fan simply isn't going to be able to get his head around this issue.

It's the same group that was telling us Kyle had a noodle arm last year.

Some people have enough foresight to see the bigger picture, and some don't.

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 04:39 PM
Taco should change the video on the front page to Hillis highlights

I am actually surprised why he hasn't. I mean the top left was changed to the HillisMane with his fat ass face on the logo.

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 04:40 PM
Problem is, you're admiring the wrong player.(s)

But, your average fan simply isn't going to be able to get his head around this issue.

It's the same group that was telling us Kyle had a noodle arm last year.

Some people have enough foresight to see the bigger picture, and some don't.

It is. Generally, these people who are obsessed with Hillis are less focused on the bigger picture and more focused on knee jerk reaction.

Coincidentally, these are the same people who aren't exactly in favor of our coach.

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 04:42 PM
If you notice, TJ didn't vote in the 1st quarter approval poll for Josh McDaniels.

Spider
10-07-2010, 04:44 PM
LOL ...... someone has gone off the deepend here

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 04:45 PM
LOL ...... someone has gone off the deepend here

neither did you.

Dagmar
10-07-2010, 04:45 PM
If you notice, TJ didn't vote in the 1st quarter approval poll for Josh McDaniels.

Didn't he say he was 50/50? There is only approve and disapprove.

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 04:47 PM
Didn't he say he was 50/50? There is only approve and disapprove.

That's my point....

Dagmar
10-07-2010, 04:48 PM
That's my point....

How? If I was 50/50, if I was a maybe, I wouldn't have voted either.

Spider
10-07-2010, 04:48 PM
neither did you.

yeah you caught me , I am in cahoots with a small but highly lethal band of people here , we are hell bent on revenge , we are going to destroy McD lawn gnomes , Kidnap his Pink Flamingos in th front yard until he admits trading Hillis was a screw up .......... How did you ever figure us out ?

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 04:52 PM
How? If I was 50/50, if I was a maybe, I wouldn't have voted either.

All I said was, it's a coincidence that most these people that are obsessed with Hillis aren't all exactly in favor of McDaniels.

Whether thats 50%,25%, 10%, 2.5%...

they're generally not 100% on board.

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 04:53 PM
yeah you caught me , I am in cahoots with a small but highly lethal band of people here , we are hell bent on revenge , we are going to destroy McD lawn gnomes , Kidnap his Pink Flamingos in th front yard until he admits trading Hillis was a screw up .......... How did you ever figure us out ?

:thanku:

Spider
10-07-2010, 04:55 PM
:thanku:

Odd thing is , I think the team is much more solid under mcD ...... Didnt say better ...... Going off of Shannys first years here , compared to McD's first years here ......but I like McD ......

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 04:59 PM
Odd thing is , I think the team is much more solid under mcD ...... Didnt say better ...... Going off of Shannys first years here , compared to McD's first years here ......but I like McD ......

I'd hope so.

All it really is that, it gets questionable to see every single thread about Peyton Hillis go on forever and it's just a party for people who are generally aren't in favor of McDaniels to go in even harder. We know the only reason why these threads exist is because the owner of the sites is in agreement.

Yes, if you don't like the thread don't read etc... it is what it is.

Punisher
10-07-2010, 05:00 PM
http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/archives/61569_BillCowher-.jpg

This Guy

listopencil
10-07-2010, 05:14 PM
I'd hope so.

All it really is that, it gets questionable to see every single thread about Peyton Hillis go on forever and it's just a party for people who are generally aren't in favor of McDaniels to go in even harder. We know the only reason why these threads exist is because the owner of the sites is in agreement.

Yes, if you don't like the thread don't read etc... it is what it is.

Just to clarify, I voted "No" in that poll. The poll asked if I disapproved of McD's work as of the 1st quarter of this year. Our running game failed last year. It is failing so far this year. That's huge to me. So no, I don't approve of how the team is performing, and that's how I judge the Head Coach.

There have been several major personnel moves in McD's tenure. I agreed with some, disagreed with others. The big thing for me is that he really is apparently trying to install a sort of "Patriots West" system here. I didn't care for how the Pats ran the ball w/ Mcd as OC, and I really don't like how the Broncos don't run the ball w/ Mcd as HC.

OABB
10-07-2010, 05:16 PM
When did we trade hillis? This is the first I have heard about this.

Missouribronc
10-07-2010, 05:19 PM
When did we trade hillis? This is the first I have heard about this.

:rofl:

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 05:22 PM
Just to clarify, I voted "No" in that poll. The poll asked if I disapproved of McD's work as of the 1st quarter of this year. Our running game failed last year. It is failing so far this year. That's huge to me. So no, I don't approve of how the team is performing, and that's how I judge the Head Coach.

There have been several major personnel moves in McD's tenure. I agreed with some, disagreed with others. The big thing for me is that he really is apparently trying to install a sort of "Patriots West" system here. I didn't care for how the Pats ran the ball w/ Mcd as OC, and I really don't like how the Broncos don't run the ball w/ Mcd as HC.

Sean Payton must be failing as a head coach thus far in the season.

TheReverend
10-07-2010, 05:26 PM
Subscribed. Missed some epic stuff.

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 05:27 PM
Subscribed. Missed some epic stuff.

I might of passed you up in meltdown post of the year.
:rofl:

TheReverend
10-07-2010, 05:29 PM
I might of passed you up in meltdown post of the year.
:rofl:

I saw. Only mine was accurate and correct and has been echoed by the coaching staff since then, but whatever.

listopencil
10-07-2010, 05:31 PM
Sean Payton must be failing as a head coach thus far in the season.

I don't follow the Saints much at all, I'm a Bronco fan. But a very cursory look at them shows some interesting stats. They appear to run the ball better than we do.

listopencil
10-07-2010, 05:32 PM
Oh, by the way:


After all, a bubble screen or quick hitch basically is a running play, isn't it?

"No, I don't agree with that," said Orton, expressing not only his opinion, but also his survival instinct.

"You lose a lot in terms of play action. You lose a lot just in terms of allowing your offensive line to come off the ball and actually hit them. A lot of times, you become passive up front . . . I think you saw that a little bit last game. We were pass-protecting 50 times and when the defensive line doesn't really have to honor the run, they're in full pass mode the whole game."


"I think (lack of) balance ultimately will catch up to you," McDaniels said. "You can play some games and kind of lean more toward the passing game than the running game, but I think over the long haul if you play a season like that you're going to ask for trouble down the road. You're going to get your quarterback hit and you're certainly going to get played differently."

"You need a traditional running game because you need to have the threat," receiver Brandon Lloyd said. "You have the position of running back for a reason and you have to be able to run the ball, period. The short passing game won't make up for that."

"We're still trying to get an identity," tight end Daniel Graham said. "Right now we can't even run the ball, so we don't have an identity."


http://www.denverpost.com/krieger/ci_16273831

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 05:33 PM
I saw. Only mine was accurate and correct and has been echoed by the coaching staff since then, but whatever.

Wait, mine wasn't accurate and correct?

TheReverend
10-07-2010, 05:39 PM
Wait, mine wasn't accurate and correct?

No. You're right that it was a DT making the sack, but that's kinda trivial and pointless. Maroney is clearly supposed to be blocking from the inside out and doesn't. He looks like he's doing a "fill for the pulling guard" play on a shotgun passing play which don't even exist.

Fwiw, I definitely think Walton screwed up here too. His mistake certainly don't vindicate Maroney's though.

BroncoBuff
10-07-2010, 05:41 PM
Moreno > Hillis.

I agree, for now. But it's looking more and more like that equation could change.

It was a bad trade.

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 05:41 PM
I don't follow the Saints much at all, I'm a Bronco fan. But a very cursory look at them shows some interesting stats. They appear to run the ball better than we do.

Ohhh ok, so now you judge HC's not only purely based on running the ball, but now you use the Broncos as a benchmark as to to how you judge a HC.

So unless the Broncos are #1 in rushing, there will always be other HC's that you will judge higher than McDaniels.

Even if the Broncos have a great defense, great passing game, great ST, and Super Bowl victories... no even if those things were true, unless McDaniels has a #1 rushing game in the league, there will always be coaches that you judge higher.

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 05:48 PM
No. You're right that it was a DT making the sack, but that's kinda trivial and pointless. Maroney is clearly supposed to be blocking from the inside out and doesn't. He looks like he's doing a "fill for the pulling guard" play on a shotgun passing play which don't even exist.

Fwiw, I definitely think Walton screwed up here too. His mistake certainly don't vindicate Maroney's though.

How is that? There are 6 rushers and 6 blocking on the play...there is no way we can be 100%, but there was obvious miscommunication on the play as they Hope was double teamed for whatever reason.

If Maroney was supposed to be blocking from the inside out as you said, then it was his screw up on the play on not knowing where to block, not about his instincts...however it seems as if he had his eyes on Hope the whole time... even if JD slid over to the DT and Maroney picked up Hope.. he still would have been fine to push him out.

Like I said though, if this protection scheme doesn't account for whose blitzing and just the areas, so regardless if it's a DT or a safety, and Maroney is supposed to be accountable for WHOEVER blitzes on that side then it is his fault, be we don't know..

It was either Maroney's or Walton fault, and if you think it's Maroney's then you're pretty much saying that you think the scheme sets up RB's to block DT's 1 on 1.

Dagmar
10-07-2010, 05:52 PM
I agree, for now. But it's looking more and more like that equation could change.

It was a bad trade.

You would have preferred Chris Simms as back up going into the year?

Wait, starter you say...??

listopencil
10-07-2010, 05:55 PM
Ohhh ok, so now you judge HC's not only purely based on running the ball, but now you use the Broncos as a benchmark as to to how you judge a HC.

I judge a HC by how his team performs. Pretty simple.

So unless the Broncos are #1 in rushing, there will always be other HC's that you will judge higher than McDaniels.

But the Broncos aren't anywhere near number one are they? They aren't even in the top half of the league. They are dead last. Did you miss that? The run was a weakness last year. Our lack of a running game, in part, helped us into an epic slide of historic proportions as the Denver Broncos pissed away an entire season. So how do we come out of the gate this year? Looking like crap. Great job, Coach! (<- sarcasm). I disapprove.


Even if the Broncos have a great defense, great passing game, great ST, and Super Bowl victories... no even if those things were true, unless McDaniels has a #1 rushing game in the league, there will always be coaches that you judge higher.

...and now your just making stuff up. Like I said. I disapprove. We can't run the ball. That's pathetic. I know my comments may interrupt some of the homergasmic "true fan" circle jerks that happen here on the Mane more and more lately. But it's the truth. We can't run the ball, and I disapprove.

TheReverend
10-07-2010, 05:56 PM
How is that? There are 6 rushers and 6 blocking on the play...there is no way we can be 100%, but there was obvious miscommunication on the play as they Hope was double teamed for whatever reason.

If Maroney was supposed to be blocking from the inside out as you said, then it was his screw up on the play on not knowing where to block, not about his instincts...however it seems as if he had his eyes on Hope the whole time... even if JD slid over to the DT and Maroney picked up Hope.. he still would have been find to push him out.

Like I said though, if this protection scheme doesn't account for whose blitzing and just the areas, so regardless if it's a DT or a safety, and Maroney is supposed to be accountable for WHOEVER blitzes on that side then it is his fault, be we don't know..

It was either Maroney's or Walton fault, and if you think it's Maroney's then you're pretty much saying that you think the scheme sets up RB's to block DT's 1 on 1.

I'd have had my eyes on Hope too. That doesn't make it right. And it's not one way or the other. I think they both screwed up, but I'm also certain that Maroney definitely screwed up. He's back there to bat cleanup. Not every back is going to be Clinton Portis in pass protection but that clip that Doc isolated is pretty funny/sad.

Missouribronc
10-07-2010, 06:00 PM
I judge a HC by how his team performs. Pretty simple.

Try to be as ambigious as possible.

Thanks.

listopencil
10-07-2010, 06:04 PM
Try to be as ambigious as possible.

Thanks.

Try to make a contribution to a thread.

Thanks.

The MVPlaya
10-07-2010, 06:06 PM
I'd have had my eyes on Hope too. That doesn't make it right. And it's not one way or the other. I think they both screwed up, but I'm also certain that Maroney definitely screwed up. He's back there to bat cleanup. Not every back is going to be Clinton Portis in pass protection but that clip that Doc isolated is pretty funny/sad.

Like I said, you don't know what Maroney's assignment is on that play. You can sit here and predict that Maroney is supposed to pick up who ever is running free, and in this case the DT... but we don't know that for sure.

How are you sure he's there to just "bat clean up" and wait to see who the free running rusher is? Watch the play in real time... Maroney had already made his commitment and Walton did to, so if Maroney was there to "bat clean up" as you said, he completely ****ed up by not waiting... but do we know that? No.

Watch Walton. IMO it looks like Walton just got confused on who to block and committed to Hope.

I get what you're saying though, you're saying it's both their faults because JD should have blocked the DT but also it's Maroney's fault that he should have blocked the DT which is the free rusher in this case...

We'll never know is my end point, and I'll obviously be looking out in the future for this again.

TheReverend
10-07-2010, 06:08 PM
Like I said, you don't know what Maroney's assignment is on that play. You can sit here and predict that Maroney is supposed to pick up who ever is running free, and in this case the DT... but we don't know that for sure.

How are you sure he's there to just "bat clean up" and wait to see who the free running rusher is? Watch the play in real time... Maroney had already made his commitment and Walton did to, so if Maroney was there to "bat clean up" as you said, he completely ****ed up by not waiting... but do we know that? No.

Watch Walton. IMO it looks like Walton just got confused on who to block and committed to Hope.

I get what you're saying though, you're saying it's both their faults because JD should have blocked the DT but also it's Maroney's fault that he should have blocked the DT the free runner...

We'll never know is my point, and I'll obviously be looking out in the future for this again.

Why have I not learned my lesson from every other conversation with you?

You're right, dude. Maroney was amazing that game and he did everything right. Let's start the appreciation and extension threads now.

Missouribronc
10-07-2010, 06:10 PM
Try to make a contribution to a thread.

Thanks.

Since the thread is about a judge declaring McDaniels legally insane for tradin Hillis, I would say we should probably start looking for a new head coach. Don't ya think?

Hey, did you notice that the Broncos offensive line is struggling to stay healthy? Maybe that's why the run game sucks.

Just a thought.

Back to the regularly scheduled coach bashing...

Dagmar
10-07-2010, 06:11 PM
Why have I not learned my lesson from every other conversation with you?

You're right, dude. Maroney was amazing that game and he did everything right. Let's start the appreciation and extension threads now.

Those are just for ex-Broncos Rev, wait the positive one about the rookies went a whole 3 pages!

;)

listopencil
10-07-2010, 06:45 PM
Since the thread is about a judge declaring McDaniels legally insane for tradin Hillis, I would say we should probably start looking for a new head coach. Don't ya think?

Hey, did you notice that the Broncos offensive line is struggling to stay healthy? Maybe that's why the run game sucks.

Just a thought.

Back to the regularly scheduled coach bashing...

Actually I was having a conversation with another poster-about why I voted a particular way on a different thread, because the poll question was fairly divisive. Back to your regularly scheduled seagull posting...

Missouribronc
10-07-2010, 06:48 PM
Actually I was having a conversation with another poster-about why I voted a particular way on a different thread, because the poll question was fairly divisive. Back to your regularly scheduled seagull posting...

Well, since this thread is about the running game and we're judging on production. I would have to agree with you. He's tha werst coach evah!

Let's go find a passing thread so we can call him tha bestest coach evah! Then we can find a scoring thread and we can talk about how mediocre he is.

listopencil
10-07-2010, 07:08 PM
Well, since this thread is about the running game and we're judging on production. I would have to agree with you. He's tha werst coach evah!

Let's go find a passing thread so we can call him tha bestest coach evah! Then we can find a scoring thread and we can talk about how mediocre he is.

..or we could just listen to the quotes of the players and the coach himself, talking about the importance of the running game to a football team.

Missouribronc
10-07-2010, 07:20 PM
..or we could just listen to the quotes of the players and the coach himself, talking about the importance of the running game to a football team.

Did you stop to think about why you're hearing those quotes this week? Because the media is asking the questions about it, not because the other aspects of the game are unimportant.

So, do we judge McDaniels on a solid passing game, a lackluster running game, a decent defense or a lacking special teams?

See, he's the head coach. He's in charge of everything on the field. But you want to condemn him because of one aspect of play. I fail to see the logic in that.

BroncoInferno
10-07-2010, 07:23 PM
Just to clarify, I voted "No" in that poll. The poll asked if I disapproved of McD's work as of the 1st quarter of this year. Our running game failed last year. It is failing so far this year. That's huge to me. So no, I don't approve of how the team is performing, and that's how I judge the Head Coach.

There have been several major personnel moves in McD's tenure. I agreed with some, disagreed with others. The big thing for me is that he really is apparently trying to install a sort of "Patriots West" system here. I didn't care for how the Pats ran the ball w/ Mcd as OC, and I really don't like how the Broncos don't run the ball w/ Mcd as HC.

The Pats were 6th in rushing with McD as coordinator in 2008.

snowspot66
10-07-2010, 07:36 PM
The Pats were 6th in rushing with McD as coordinator in 2008.

And we were a very respectable middle of the pack last year with about 120 per game.

listopencil
10-07-2010, 07:51 PM
The Pats were 6th in rushing with McD as coordinator in 2008.

....the year they set the record for points scored?

BroncoInferno
10-07-2010, 08:03 PM
....the year they set the record for points scored?

They were 11th that year (2007). In short, they were never a "bad" rushing team under McD. I think our problems are clear this year...our top guys (Clady, Harris, and Kuper) have all been injured to varying severities and the other two starters have never started before this season.

listopencil
10-07-2010, 08:10 PM
They were 11th that year (2007). In short, they were never a "bad" rushing team under McD. I think our problems are clear this year...our top guys (Clady, Harris, and Kuper) have all been injured to varying severities and the other two starters have never started before this season.

I checked the stats page on NFL.com and it says 2007. I couldn't remember-not a big deal though. I agree that NE had an effective running game. I just didn't care for how they ran the ball. The plays didn't look smooth and it seemed to me that it was very much up to individual efforts on the respective RB's to get the yardage. That it was functioning off the success of the passing game.

baja
10-07-2010, 08:11 PM
They were 11th that year (2007). In short, they were never a "bad" rushing team under McD. I think our problems are clear this year...our top guys (Clady, Harris, and Kuper) have all been injured to varying severities and the other two starters have never started before this season.

I don't know why that is not obvious to everybody here.

Rock Chalk
10-07-2010, 08:15 PM
I checked the stats page on NFL.com and it says 2007. I couldn't remember-not a big deal though. I agree that NE had an effective running game. I just didn't care for how they ran the ball. The plays didn't look smooth and it seemed to me that it was very much up to individual efforts on the respective RB's to get the yardage. That it was functioning off the success of the passing game.

Not possible. They had Moroney. If it were up to the individual efforts there then they certainly wouldnt have finished 11th :).

I think what is hard for people to grab on to is that this is a pass-to-run offense instead of a run-to-pass offense like we were used to under shanahan. Ideally the pass is the primary focus with the run used (effectively) in spots mostly to help the play action but also to make 2nd and 3rd downs a bit easier. I bet if you check NE's stats even when they ran the ball alot, that most of their first downs came through the air.

Right now, we are a pass-to-pass offense because of issues with the offensive line and running backs. None of which got to practice as a unit well, basically all year. Someone has been nicked or out the entire time and there is no real continuity. We KNOW there is talent there. We know it. We've all seen it. But damned if they have had some misfortune with injuries in a very chemistry related aspect of the team.

BroncoInferno
10-07-2010, 08:16 PM
I checked the stats page on NFL.com and it says 2007. I couldn't remember-not a big deal though. I agree that NE had an effective running game. I just didn't care for how they ran the ball. The plays didn't look smooth and it seemed to me that it was very much up to individual efforts on the respective RB's to get the yardage. That it was functioning off the success of the passing game.

Well, if you are giving the RBs that much credit, the much maligned Maroney (whom most have thrown under the bus after two games) averaged 4.5 yards per carry in 2007. The Pats scheme is a man-on-man blocking scheme. I don't know what there isn't to like about that. I think McD's biggest mistake was going with the hybrid man and zone-blocking scheme last season. If man was his preference, he should have sold out for that last season, and we might be over the growing pains by now. Although our top 3 guys (Clady, Harris, and Kuper) are perfectly capable of executing a man scheme, they've been trained as zone blockers their entire careers. It's gonna take time. I suspect we will improve as the season progresses (and guys get healthy).

listopencil
10-07-2010, 08:21 PM
Not possible. They had Moroney. If it were up to the individual efforts there then they certainly wouldnt have finished 11th :).

I think what is hard for people to grab on to is that this is a pass-to-run offense instead of a run-to-pass offense like we were used to under shanahan. Ideally the pass is the primary focus with the run used (effectively) in spots mostly to help the play action but also to make 2nd and 3rd downs a bit easier. I bet if you check NE's stats even when they ran the ball alot, that most of their first downs came through the air.

Right now, we are a pass-to-pass offense because of issues with the offensive line and running backs. None of which got to practice as a unit well, basically all year. Someone has been nicked or out the entire time and there is no real continuity. We KNOW there is talent there. We know it. We've all seen it. But damned if they have had some misfortune with injuries in a very chemistry related aspect of the team.

Yeah, I know what you mean and I think that is exactly what I don't like about this offense. I guess my problem is that in the back of my mind i know that even with everyone 100% healthy we are still going to be a passing team.

listopencil
10-07-2010, 08:33 PM
Well, if you are giving the RBs that much credit, the much maligned Maroney (whom most have thrown under the bus after two games) averaged 4.5 yards per carry in 2007. The Pats scheme is a man-on-man blocking scheme. I don't know what there isn't to like about that. I think McD's biggest mistake was going with the hybrid man and zone-blocking scheme last season. If man was his preference, he should have sold out for that last season, and we might be over the growing pains by now. Although our top 3 guys (Clady, Harris, and Kuper) are perfectly capable of executing a man scheme, they've been trained as zone blockers their entire careers. It's gonna take time. I suspect we will improve as the season progresses (and guys get healthy).

Yeah, I noticed Maroney's stats, 14.2 att per game though, so he was on pretty fresh legs. I honestly don't know what his ceiling is- the Pats have been pretty good at letting people go at or just past their peak but they can make a mistake too.

And yeah, you would think 3/5 of a line would be a pretty damn good starting point.

BroncoInferno
10-07-2010, 08:35 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean and I think that is exactly what I don't like about this offense. I guess my problem is that in the back of my mind i know that even with everyone 100% healthy we are still going to be a passing team.

Well...and I'm not suggesting we should go this route...but the last two Super Bowls featured the two worst rushing teams in the league. Both Arizona and Indy were dead last in rushing the last two seasons when they went to the SB. Yeah, both lost, but Arizona damn near won, and I don't think you can reasonably argue they lost due to rushing given the points they put up. The game, it is a-changin'.

BroncoInferno
10-07-2010, 08:38 PM
Yeah, I noticed Maroney's stats, 14.2 att per game though, so he was on pretty fresh legs. I honestly don't know what his ceiling is- the Pats have been pretty good at letting people go at or just past their peak but they can make a mistake too.

And yeah, you would think 3/5 of a line would be a pretty damn good starting point.

Like I said, those three guys have all been trained in the zone-blocking scheme from the time they were drafted. They've got to relearn their assignments, even thought they are perfectly capable of executing them. If we are healthy along the OL and not a decent rushing team by seasons end, I will definitely be worried. And, yeah, Maroney got limited carries, which I think it's safe to assume McD has in mind for him once Moreno is healthy.

listopencil
10-07-2010, 08:39 PM
Well...and I'm not suggesting we should go this route...but the last two Super Bowls featured the two worst rushing teams in the league. Both Arizona and Indy were dead last in rushing the last two seasons when they went to the SB. Yeah, both lost, but Arizona damn near won, and I don't think you can reasonably argue they lost due to rushing given the points they put up. The game, it is a-changin'.

True, very true.

Yuck.

errand
10-07-2010, 09:43 PM
Are you referring to Richard Quinn or Peyton Hillis?

yeah, imagine that.... neither one of these morons sees the playing field in Denver

errand
10-07-2010, 10:01 PM
I'm still curious why TJ thinks Peyton is some world class blocker when he couldn't win the starting FB job....

Popps
10-07-2010, 10:27 PM
I'm still curious why TJ thinks Peyton is some world class blocker when he couldn't win the starting FB job....

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