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TheReverend
10-04-2010, 10:54 AM
There's some great football on display from this unit the past few weeks, and it's important it stays that way in the future as key positions continue to age.

I've been stamping my foot for another ILB for a few years, but time is not on our side in some key spots that have them more of a priority in 2011 in my eyes: NT and CB.

Bannan has been a pretty solid signing, and I'll be a little surprised if Marcus Thomas isn't a starting DE for us in 2011 with the way he's starting to come along in his spot. Also, both Johnny Jolly and Cullen Jenkins are up for contracts this year. GB probably won't be able to re-sign both. I say we make a big play for which ever becomes available.

Williams and Fields worry me more than a little. I hope the FO is keeping a close eye on Paea, the Tongan kid from Oregon. We should be in a slot with a great chance to get our hands on him come April.

McBath seems poised to slide in for Dawkins full time should he lose another step. Cox continues to get more comfortable, but we should need one more hyper athlete at the spot, two depending on Champ's contract negotiations and the potential switch to S.

Mogulseeker
10-04-2010, 10:57 AM
Paea would play LDE in our system.

Shoemaker
10-04-2010, 11:08 AM
There's some great football on display from this unit the past few weeks, and it's important it stays that way in the future as key positions continue to age.

I've been stamping my foot for another ILB for a few years, but time is not on our side in some key spots that have them more of a priority in 2011 in my eyes: NT and CB.

Bannan has been a pretty solid signing, and I'll be a little surprised if Marcus Thomas isn't a starting DE for us in 2011 with the way he's starting to come along in his spot. Also, both Johnny Jolly and Cullen Jenkins are up for contracts this year. GB probably won't be able to re-sign both. I say we make a big play for which ever becomes available.

Williams and Fields worry me more than a little. I hope the FO is keeping a close eye on Paea, the Tongan kid from Oregon. We should be in a slot with a great chance to get our hands on him come April.

McBath seems poised to slide in for Dawkins full time should he lose another step. Cox continues to get more comfortable, but we should need one more hyper athlete at the spot, two depending on Champ's contract negotiations and the potential switch to S.

Excellent thread, and I agree. While the defense has been playing very well the past few weeks, we definitely need to start planning for some replacements at key positions.

I pretty much agree with the priorities as you listed them. I think we HAVE to get some youth at NT quickly. Fields is somewhat young, but we saw what starting did to him last year, and I'd very much like to get a quality young NT in to rotate with him next year (I'm not even sure if Williams will still be around).

At DE I think we might be okay for the coming draft. McBean and Thomas are still fairly young and they've been doing well, as has Vickerson, who has been impressing me lately. I think Bannan has a few more years in the tank, so if we look at another free agent DE this off-season, like the two you listed from Green Bay, I'd say we could focus on our other priorities in the draft.

I really like our linebacking corps, and I think its only missing a young thumper at the SILB position to make it complete. I kinda doubt whether Mays can be that guy, so SILB is definitely a position that I'd look at early in the next draft. Also, as we've been seeing this year, our depth at OLB leaves something to be desired. That might be something we could look at in FA, though I'm not sure what backup pass rushers would be available.

In the secondary, I agree that we need to look at getting another corner at some point. McBath should be able to start whenever Dawkins hangs 'em up, and if we can re-sign Champ he could definitely man free safety for a few years. But obviously, if Champ moves to safety we need to have another corner ready to take his spot. Cox has impressed me so far, but I'm not sure Vaughn or Thompson are starting material at an outside corner position. I'd like to take a replacement corner for Champ early in the draft, but if we re-sign Champ this offseason then we might be able to put off drafting another CB until 2012 or so. I do think our needs in the Front Seven are more pressing, to say nothing of some needs on offense (O-Line depth, a change of pace RB, etc.)

So, going into the 2011 draft I'd definitely list our priorities on defense something like this:

1) NT-use a first round pick if at all possible.
2) SILB-high draft pick, first or second rounder.
3) DE-if Thomas, McBean, Vickerson, and a free-agent signee all pan out this could move down the list.
4) CB-could wait until next year if Champ stays.
5) OLB-need depth behind Dumervil/Ayers; Moss has disappeared again.
6) S-Hill's still over 30, not sure if Bruton is starting material.

What does everyone else think? Are these priorities in the wrong order?

gyldenlove
10-04-2010, 11:09 AM
Right now ILB and NT have to have the main priorities for FA and draft. Bannan, Mcbean and Thomas can be upgraded for sure, but are servicable if nothing else. Williams is on borrowed time and Fields is a rotational player. Haggan is decent but has serious limitations against the pass.

I think CB is okay for now, Goodman is going to be with us for a while, Cox is starter material in my book, Thompson and Vaughn should be able to challenge Nate Jones for the nickel spot and I really do hope we sign Champ to an extension, the man seems to refuse to get old.

Mcbath is getting time in the nickel defense and hopefully that will prepare him to take over for Dawkins whenever he decides to hang them up.

Man-Goblin
10-04-2010, 11:09 AM
Agreed on the NT and Strong MLB spots. They could really use a couple of young studs at those two position, especially NT, but those guys are few and far between. And with more and more teams switching to the 3-4 (I would assume it will be over 50% of the league next year), it's even harder to get your hands on them.

But I think we're pretty well off at corner. I think they can develop the young guys that they have there. Of course they'll need to infuse some youth there, and are already 2 steps ahead of the game in preparation for when Champ steps down.

Which brings us to safety. Hill is a nice player, but definitely not a world beater. I'm giddy at the prospect of Champ stepping into that FS spot in a couple/few years. He and McBath could be a nice combo for a 2-3 years there.

Draft for the front 7 early and often in 2011, especially on the D-line.

I really like Wink and what he's done and look forward to some continuity at the coordinator spot for the first time in a decade.

Oh, and having Dumervil back next year will be like adding an additional uber-uber 1st round pick to the D.

The future looks bright!

Popps
10-04-2010, 11:15 AM
I'd agree an ILB has to be a primary concern.

I'd also agree that Thomas' progress has become apparent. It's surprising, but I think he's finally turned into a solid player. Props to McD for being patient with the guy, because I wasn't.

There are a few key free agents available next year. Won't Seymour be a free agent, as well? He may have some tread left.

gyldenlove
10-04-2010, 11:28 AM
I'd agree an ILB has to be a primary concern.

I'd also agree that Thomas' progress has become apparent. It's surprising, but I think he's finally turned into a solid player. Props to McD for being patient with the guy, because I wasn't.

There are a few key free agents available next year. Won't Seymour be a free agent, as well? He may have some tread left.

I think Thomas needed stability, he finally has some continuity going on and I think it helps him.

Seymour will be a UFA if he is not tagged again, Shaun Ellis will also be a free agent, I know he is oldish but he is a very solid DE and the Jets have other things they could be focusing on.

There is no saying when and if Johnny Jolly will ever be reinstated but I don't want any part of that dope selling asshat. Cullen Jenkins might be interesting to take the spot that Jarvis Green never filled.

Mr.Meanie
10-04-2010, 11:32 AM
The future is looking very bright on defense, and I think if Doom was playing this Defense would something scary.

That said, IMO the weakest areas on the entire team are ILB, NT depth (and future anchor) and RB.

With 3 picks in the first 2 rounds next year I could see us addressing those areas, and then just picking up value/depth/ST players in the later rounds.

Doggcow
10-04-2010, 11:33 AM
Dawkins hasn't lost a step.

Did you see him smoke VY on the rollout?

gyldenlove
10-04-2010, 11:41 AM
Dawkins hasn't lost a step.

Did you see him smoke VY on the rollout?

He looked slow against Jacksonville but his interception against Seattle showed something else, he came flying across the field to get in front of Carlson. Since then he has been on fire.

TheReverend
10-04-2010, 11:50 AM
I'd agree an ILB has to be a primary concern.

I'd also agree that Thomas' progress has become apparent. It's surprising, but I think he's finally turned into a solid player. Props to McD for being patient with the guy, because I wasn't.

There are a few key free agents available next year. Won't Seymour be a free agent, as well? He may have some tread left.

Considering Oakland's investment, Seymour won't be available unless a high pick is involved, I'm sure. Same with some other guys like Franklin and especially Ngata. That's why I think the only opportunity is with Green Bay's guys thanks to good timing.

ColoradoDarin
10-04-2010, 12:13 PM
DL take a few years to develop (case in point, Marcus Thomas seems to be coming on finally this year), so drafting on the DL is necessary at this point to get some youth there to take over, hopefully Williams last another year at NT for us while we bring a young pup along. I am also willing to spend a boatload of Pat's money there if instead we want to continue to bring in F/As for the DL - I really trust McX here, even with the whiff on Green this year.

With one of our 2 2nds next year we absolutely need to bring in an ILB. I'm not a big fan of DJ (though he did have an awesome game yesterday), but DJ paired up with a 3-down thumper might just push this D to elite level.

As for the rest of it, either depth or draft for eventual replacement.

I really don't want to get into the former/current coach thing, but man, what a difference of talent on our roster on the D side.

gyldenlove
10-04-2010, 12:17 PM
Considering Oakland's investment, Seymour won't be available unless a high pick is involved, I'm sure. Same with some other guys like Franklin and especially Ngata. That's why I think the only opportunity is with Green Bay's guys thanks to good timing.

Seymour will be looking at 15 mill for his next franchise tag from Oakland, they paid more than that for Aso so it is likely they will do that again.

Ngata will definitely be tagged if he isn't resigned, no way they let him go. They have Jared Gaither, Ngata and Leron Mcclain as important FAs, and of the 3 Ngata is by far the priority.

Franklin will be due about 8.5 mill on his next franchise tender, the 49ers have a few other players they probably want to keep, Manny Lawson and it all comes down to Alex Smith who will be a free agent. If he plays well down the stretch with their new OC, they might want to keep him which could put Franklin at risk, but if Smith keeps stinking it up, they are probably going to cut their losses, look for a new QB and keep Franklin.

The Jets have a list as long as your arm of free agents so Shaun Ellis could very well be available. Cromartie, Braylon Edwards, Santonio Holmes, David Harris and Ellis. My guess is that David Harris is priority number 1 and Cromartie number 2 with Edwards 3. Ellis has asked for an extension but has been blown off by Tannenbaum so he might be easy to pilfer.

Irish Stout
10-04-2010, 12:24 PM
I was a huge supporter of DJ for quite awhile. This year it seems like I am finally seeing what people have complained about. When the guy is on he is the best in the business, but he doesn't seem to be on every game or even every play.

manchambo
10-04-2010, 12:25 PM
If Champ extends, I can see him moving to safety in the next few years, ala Woodson. I think he could be an absolute terror roaming around back there--much harder to throw the ball away from him. Could extend his career by a couple of years when he loses the hyper-speed needed at cb.

cmhargrove
10-04-2010, 12:53 PM
I was a huge supporter of DJ for quite awhile. This year it seems like I am finally seeing what people have complained about. When the guy is on he is the best in the business, but he doesn't seem to be on every game or even every play.

Did Dj have a bad game yesterday? What did I miss?

ColoradoDarin
10-04-2010, 02:25 PM
Did Dj have a bad game yesterday? What did I miss?

Actually I think it's the other way around, DJ had a monster game yesterday and guys like me and Irish (if I may speak for him a sec) who aren't big on DJ normally, respect a great game like he played yesterday.

Kaylore
10-04-2010, 02:27 PM
Hunter actually is slowly starting to look like a decent OLB as well. Played contain excellently.

bombay
10-04-2010, 02:31 PM
What's Vickerson's story? He played well yesterday.

I have to admit it's the first time I've noticed him.

The MVPlaya
10-04-2010, 02:35 PM
What's Vickerson's story? He played well yesterday.

I have to admit it's the first time I've noticed him.

He got 1 of the game balls.

Br0nc0Buster
10-04-2010, 02:42 PM
We need a NT in the worst way
as far as our DE position, at the end of the year its possible it may not be a pressing need
Thomas is playing well, and Vickerson looks good to, and with both players still being relatively young they might even improve as the season progresses
Bannan is solid

could use a good SILB, dont need a 1st round pick to get one though

LRtagger
10-04-2010, 02:47 PM
If it's any consolation to Doom's injury its that I think Hunter can remain on the team long-term as a #1 backup or a situational run stopper...or even a nickle/dime down lineman. Moss is a goner after the season - no way we resign him.

2011 draft and FA should be defense heavy. NT, ILB, CB, OLB, S are all spots where we can upgrade or add depth. Basically every spot on D. Also think we'll need to draft at least one Olineman and a RB. Dont think we will be drafting any QBs or WRs.

bombay
10-04-2010, 02:47 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Vickerson


Vickerson.

Drek
10-04-2010, 04:58 PM
McBean has had some rough plays this year but he's young and was arguably our best DL last season. I think he's got a long term future with the team here.

Thomas and Vickerson though are really starting to show something good. Combined with Fields (a solid DE/NT rotational backup) we've got some solid answers on the DL.

What we need is a real difference maker, ideally at NT since we're pretty solid at DE long term already.

In the secondary I'd agree, we need another standout athlete at corner either next year or the year after. Cox looks like a #2 at least given some time to develop, but unless we get real lucky Vaughn and Thompson are probably just a real great #3/#4 pair.

I actually like our SILB guys right now though. Haggan is solid and Mays has some potential as a two down gap stuffer. This season we're asking for more from Haggan because we don't have Doom, but when we do lets be honest, Doom, DJ, and Ayers will not leave the field on 3rd downs and our SILB will be a very situational player.

Overall we're heading in the right direction on defense though. Some good young talent maturing in all three tiers.

WolfpackGuy
10-04-2010, 05:01 PM
What's the crop of NT's looking like in 2011?

Anything close to the 09 and 10 classes?

Garcia Bronco
10-04-2010, 05:03 PM
I was a huge supporter of DJ for quite awhile. This year it seems like I am finally seeing what people have complained about. When the guy is on he is the best in the business, but he doesn't seem to be on every game or even every play.

What do you mean? Him in pass coverage deeper down the field and being behind? That expectation isn't realistic, IMO. He shouldn't be covering down the field. We either had the wrong play or they created an advantage.

gyldenlove
10-04-2010, 05:14 PM
What's the crop of NT's looking like in 2011?

Anything close to the 09 and 10 classes?

2011.

The gem is Paea, he is stronger than most pickup trucks and has enough size, he has good tech and could be a very high draft pick.

Phil Taylor out of Baylor is probably the purest NT of the bunch, he is huge, a real space eater who owns the run.

Ellis Kenrick of Hampton is getting some consideration but has character concerns, that is why is at Hampton, seems to be why anyone is at Hampton these days.

Powe from Mississippi is not getting it done this year so far, he was good last year, he has also lost a lot of weight.

Marvin Austin is still suspended and nobody knows when that will end and how much it will cost him.

Over all it looks pretty lean, Taylor and Paea are the only ones who stand out to me as good prospects right now.

Rock Chalk
10-04-2010, 05:43 PM
What do you mean? Him in pass coverage deeper down the field and being behind? That expectation isn't realistic, IMO. He shouldn't be covering down the field. We either had the wrong play or they created an advantage.

Probably just spoiled remembering when Al Wilson covered Randy Moss down the seam that one time and batted the pass away about 30 yards down field.

oubronco
10-04-2010, 06:16 PM
We most defenitely need a monster ILB and OLB with some speed

WolfpackGuy
10-04-2010, 06:17 PM
I'm still pissed they didn't do ANYTHING for the DL in the last two drafts with decent talent on the boards.

Didn't Shanahan teach anyone you have build front to back not back to front?

gyldenlove
10-04-2010, 06:19 PM
I'm still pissed they didn't do ANYTHING for the DL in the last two drafts with talent on the board.

Didn't Shanahan teach anyone you have build front to back not back to front?

I know, the 2010 draft especially disappointed me, the DL position was deep in the draft for 30 fronts and we had a lot of ammo. It grinds my gears that DLs take so long to develope often and we don't have any in the pipeline so it could be another 3 or 4 years before we get a young difference maker.

Garcia Bronco
10-04-2010, 06:24 PM
We are almost getting to the point were we are like a Parcells defensive mindset. We are going to take someone away. We took away Wayne. We took away Chris Johnson. You are going to have to beat us with the other guys. Hopefully we can gte better and keep it up.

WolfpackGuy
10-04-2010, 06:33 PM
We are almost getting to the point were we are like a Parcells defensive mindset. We are going to take someone away. We took away Wayne. We took away Chris Johnson. You are going to have to beat us with the other guys. Hopefully we can gte better and keep it up.

More importantly Clark too in the Colts gam.

Too bad Nate Jones has a job in Denver.

elsid13
10-04-2010, 07:16 PM
What's the crop of NT's looking like in 2011?

Anything close to the 09 and 10 classes?

No great NT in this upcoming class. Most of the strength of this draft is at QB, DE, WR, CB spots. For NT you are looking at Ole Miss NT Jerrell Powe and maybe Baylors Phil Taylor. But this draft is about the DEs.

Br0nc0Buster
10-04-2010, 07:20 PM
I wonder if Marcell Dareus is a lock for a top 10 selection?

if we can somehow get him we would literally be a NT away from having an insane front seven

baja
10-04-2010, 07:28 PM
More importantly Clark too in the Colts gam.

Too bad Nate Jones has a job in Denver.

Definitely the week link in the secondary.

Goodman should be back so Cox will play the nickel.

The Joker
10-04-2010, 11:37 PM
We should be going very defense-heavy in the next draft.

The main thing we lack is a real difference maker on the D-Line. We have some solid players, but nobody who can cause real havoc and play on the other side of the LOS every down. Finding a guy like that, be it at NT or DE, should be our #1 priority in next year's draft.

SILB could do with an upgrade, sure, but in truth it's very much a situational role in this defense. I don't think we spend a high pick on the position any time soon. We're already paying big money to Doom and DJ, and if Ayers keeps going like he has the first four games this year he'll be getting a nice deal in a few years time.

Agreed about getting another CB to groom for the future when Champ moves to FS, I could see us going there with one of our 2nd round picks.

The nice thing for us is that we don't really have many needs on offense. We won't be drafting a QB or WR next year, I'm pretty certain of that. Moreno is a solid back, we're not going to give up on him as the starter and nor should we. I think someone like a Noel Devine is a very strong possibility with one of our 2nds or our third round pick though, he's a real big play threat and the kind of speedy player we need to add to the offense. I have no faith in any of our other RB's, we need better depth.

My guess is our first four picks in next year's draft are

DE
NT
CB
RB

The only thing I can see throwing a spanner in the works is if Harris goes down again and the staff decides to give up on him . We might look to add another OL then.

I'll definitely be pissed with McD if he doesn't invest in the D-line next year.