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BMarsh615
10-04-2010, 06:29 AM
3. I think it's entirely possible Kyle Orton's better than Jay Cutler

The numbers, and the impact, don't lie.

I realize it might be an unfair day to make the comparison, but I'm not pitting Jay Cutler and Kyle Orton against each other on the basis of Orton's terrific road performance at Tennessee and on Cutler's feeble and concussed one in New Jersey Sunday night. This is about a body of work -- granted, not a deep body of work, but a 20-game stretch.

In the NFL, a 20-game sample is enough to make a valid comparison. And on the basis of 20 games, it's hard to argue that Chicago got the better of the Jay Cutler-for-Kyle Orton deal. Forget the ancillary parts of the deal; Denver has not drafted well, and I'm not doing this item to get into the value of the two first-round picks and the third-rounder (which turned into Mike Wallace for the Steelers) acquired by Denver in the deal. Denver didn't do a good job with those picks, but I'm just talking Cutler for Orton. And after Orton's 341-yard performance in the 26-20 win over the Titans, I thought it would be a good chance to take a 20-game look at the two passers. I was surprised by what I found.

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/702/aviarysportsillustrated.png

Through the first four weeks of the 2010 season, Orton's 1,419 passing yards leads the NFL; Cutler is 507 yards behind him.

As I remember the April 2009 trade, I'll never forget Denver coach Josh McDaniels telling me he wished Cutler just gave him, and his offense, a chance. "He'd have loved it,'' McDaniels said. "I think any quarterback would love it.''

Cutler got the change of scenery he wanted, but he struggled under offensive coordinator Ron Turner last year, and he's being plagued by terrible protection issues under new coordinator Mike Martz this year; he was sacked nine times and suffered a concussion Sunday night against the Giants.

How long will Cutler have Martz to work with? Who knows? Martz doesn't stay in one coordinator's job very long -- two years in Detroit, one in San Francisco and one now in Chicago. Then again, if the Broncos continue to flame out, Denver owner Pat Bowlen could make a change at head coach, but he's likely to give McDaniels at least one more year.

Quarterbacks under McDaniels have to be smart, because McDaniels gives them so much latitude to change plays, both in the meeting rooms and on the field. Orton's very quiet, but I've witnessed him (last May) in meetings changing little things to make it easier to recall and call plays.

You'll recall this was supposed to be a lopsided deal favoring the Bears. It's not every day you have the chance to get a franchise quarterback in his prime, still young enough to give you six or seven seasons. It's still very early, and we don't know if Orton can keep it up. He's going to have Tim Tebow breathing down his neck in a few months, I'd guess. But he's outplaying Cutler right now. When a quarterback is more accurate and has the better average per pass attempt, that means he's moving the chains and getting ball downfield. Right now, Orton's better at both.

MVP Watch



4. Kyle Orton, QB, Denver. Averaging 355 passing yards a game. He accounted for all but 19 yards in the Broncos' win at Tennessee.

2. I think this is what I didn't like about Week 4:


a. Nomination for worst game of the week by a player on a winning team: Laurence Maroney, running back, Denver. Incredible that the Broncos paid a fourth-round pick, in part, to acquire this back who can't make something from anything but big holes. His day at Tennessee: Eleven carries for five yards, two receptions for 10 yards.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/10/04/week4/2.html

chex
10-04-2010, 06:46 AM
Peter King: I don't want this to be another Bronco bashing piece, but I'll do my best to turn it into one anyway, even just a little.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-04-2010, 06:46 AM
That's delicious. Thanks for posting.

Man-Goblin
10-04-2010, 06:51 AM
Damn. Did McDaniels recently steal King's favorite coffee mug or something? What's with all the little digs against him and the Broncos?

Didn't draft well? From another thread:

Orton
Ayers
Thomas
Decker
Part of Quinn
Part of Tebow

Even without Orton, I would take that draft haul any day straight up for Baby Jay. Hell, Ayers and Thomas have chance to be special players; that alone is worth more than that dick QB.

Hercules Rockefeller
10-04-2010, 07:21 AM
Damn. Did McDaniels recently steal King's favorite coffee mug or something? What's with all the little digs against him and the Broncos?

Didn't draft well? From another thread:

Orton
Ayers
Thomas
Decker
Part of Quinn
Part of Tebow


I forgot Seth Olson, so it should be a part of him too.

BroncoInferno
10-04-2010, 07:21 AM
Damn. Did McDaniels recently steal King's favorite coffee mug or something? What's with all the little digs against him and the Broncos?

Didn't draft well? From another thread:

Orton
Ayers
Thomas
Decker
Part of Quinn
Part of Tebow

Even without Orton, I would take that draft haul any day straight up for Baby Jay. Hell, Ayers and Thomas have chance to be special players; that alone is worth more than that dick QB.

Yeah, he probably just glanced at the stats and saw that Ayers only has one sack. He's been a beast against the run so far. Someone should send a letter to his mailbag to point out how ignorant he is.

ColoradoDarin
10-04-2010, 07:28 AM
All Ayers is... is our best run stopper that just held CJ2k to CJ53.

Peter King again shows the ignorance of anyone trying to follow 32 teams, you're not going to get deeper than skimming the stats for most games.

tsiguy96
10-04-2010, 07:30 AM
this is just pure ignorance, nothing more.

RunSilentRunDeep
10-04-2010, 07:31 AM
"Then again, if the Broncos continue to flame out, Denver owner Pat Bowlen could make a change at head coach, but he's likely to give McDaniels at least one more year."

Continue to "flame out?" Uh, Pete buddy, the Broncos are 2-2 in a league where only the Chiefs are undefeated. You should look at this thing called "The Standings."

BroncoInferno
10-04-2010, 07:32 AM
I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that he thinks the 1st that we traded to get Smith was part of the haul from the Bears.

gyldenlove
10-04-2010, 08:05 AM
He accounted for all but 19 yards in the Broncos' win at Tennessee.

Actually he accounted for 11 of those 19 yards as well, he outgained the RBs combined on the ground, so only 8 yards were gained by the offense that Orton didn't get, he accounted for 97.8% of the offensive yards we gained yesterday.

Rulon Velvet Jones
10-04-2010, 08:08 AM
Um, thank you? Peter? King?

Hercules Rockefeller
10-04-2010, 08:19 AM
"Then again, if the Broncos continue to flame out, Denver owner Pat Bowlen could make a change at head coach, but he's likely to give McDaniels at least one more year."

Continue to "flame out?" Uh, Pete buddy, the Broncos are 2-2 in a league where only the Chiefs are undefeated. You should look at this thing called "The Standings."

Well 10-10 when the team was 24-24 the 3 prior seasons is flaming out.

Smiling Assassin27
10-04-2010, 08:30 AM
He's spot on about Maroney. That guy doesn't run to daylight, he runs to pile-ups.

worm
10-04-2010, 08:51 AM
...it's hard to argue that Chicago got the better of the Jay Cutler-for-Kyle Orton deal. Forget the ancillary parts of the deal; Denver has not drafted well, and I'm not doing this item to get into the value of the two first-round picks and the third-rounder (which turned into Mike Wallace for the Steelers) acquired by Denver in the deal....

Its amazing that the guy can write how this is just a straight up comparison of Orton for Cutler....and yet people still have this need to focus on the other parts.

Straight-up QB for QB..and this trade looks just fine for the Broncos right now.

epicSocialism4tw
10-04-2010, 09:02 AM
"Then again, if the Broncos continue to flame out, Denver owner Pat Bowlen could make a change at head coach, but he's likely to give McDaniels at least one more year."

Continue to "flame out?" Uh, Pete buddy, the Broncos are 2-2 in a league where only the Chiefs are undefeated. You should look at this thing called "The Standings."

Im positive he's referring to the 6-0 start and the 2-8 finish last year as well as the numerous late-season collapses that the Broncos have had since Elway hung up the uniform.

epicSocialism4tw
10-04-2010, 09:05 AM
this is just pure ignorance, nothing more.

Man...the dude writes an opinion piece that challenges assumptions that Cutler is better than Orton (popular opinion) to make a point about Orton, and all you guys can do is cry about a little sand kicked in your female parts? Ha!

McD certainly hasnt been exactly frugal with his draft picks. I dont fault King at all for mentioning that. But thats not what the article was about. If he did write about that, I imagine a flaming case of vaginal herpes would strike this place and bring it to its knees. ;D

broncofan2438
10-04-2010, 09:15 AM
Man, we really need to draft a RB. Make that a priority McDs

SonOfLe-loLang
10-04-2010, 09:15 AM
J-H-N-S! Jhiz Jhiz Jhiz!

vancejohnson82
10-04-2010, 09:21 AM
J-H-N-S! Jhiz Jhiz Jhiz!

he's not going to post this week

SonOfLe-loLang
10-04-2010, 09:24 AM
he's not going to post this week

He's already spewing BS about how Orton whines in the other thread

enjolras
10-04-2010, 10:58 AM
It's simple. The claim that we haven't "drafted well" is just incredibly stupid. The most recent draft is shaping up as maybe the best overall draft in the history of the franchise. With Moreno, Ayers, McBath, and Bruton from the year before.. well I'm pretty damn happy with what this team has done.

UberBroncoMan
10-04-2010, 11:16 AM
Man, we really need to draft a RB. Make that a priority McDs

What we need is a fast as hell RB. Someone who can bump to the outside and reach holes quicker since our O-Line can't create them very often let alone sustain them.

epicSocialism4tw
10-04-2010, 11:21 AM
It's simple. The claim that we haven't "drafted well" is just incredibly stupid. The most recent draft is shaping up as maybe the best overall draft in the history of the franchise. With Moreno, Ayers, McBath, and Bruton from the year before.. well I'm pretty damn happy with what this team has done.

Thats quite hyperbolic, dont you think? None of these players have accomplished anything. I see you conveniently have forgotten the head-scratchers including the Great Fonz and the first rounder that never was, and the UnMighty Quinn. Those extra pics didnt materialize out of thin air either...they were a result of questionable trades.

That draft doesnt compare favorably against either 2006 or 2008.

A little levity would go a long way for you.

snowspot66
10-04-2010, 11:25 AM
Thats quite hyperbolic, dont you think? None of these players have accomplished anything. I see you conveniently have forgotten the head-scratchers including the Great Fonz and the first rounder that never was, and the UnMighty Quinn. Those extra pics didnt materialize out of thin air either...they were a result of questionable trades.

That draft doesnt compare favorably against either 2006 or 2008.

A little levity would go a long way for you.

Wrong draft. He's talking about the Thomas, Tebow, Decker, Beadles, Walton draft. Still a little early to say the least though.

epicSocialism4tw
10-04-2010, 11:37 AM
Wrong draft. He's talking about the Thomas, Tebow, Decker, Beadles, Walton draft. Still a little early to say the least though.

He talked about both drafts.

And as for the current one, you are right. Its still waaay early and we dont know if Tebow was worth all of those picks that were traded for him. Beadles and Walton havent been impressive at all. Not to say they wont be in the future.

Kaylore
10-04-2010, 11:46 AM
Beadles and Walton havent been impressive at all.
LOL Ok how are they supposed to play when you'll consider it ok? Walton has been amazing considering he's a rookie. This last game was his first bad game. And Beadles has improved significantly in all the games he's started and this was the first one that he didn't play so who knows. To say they are not "at all" impressive is retarded considering the circumstances. A third round rookie center is starting for us and is playing better than Wiegman was for us.

Beantown Bronco
10-04-2010, 12:08 PM
I see you conveniently have forgotten the head-scratchers including the Great Fonz and the first rounder that never was

Actually, judging by the way he's playing so far in Detroit, it's looking like Fonz was actually a decent pick. Just because he's not on our roster anymore doesn't mean you discount what he's doing elsewhere. If he turns into a good player for them, it brings the draft grade up. We lose points elsewhere (namely "how did we do on that trade with Detroit") but gain points in the overall draft grade.

baja
10-04-2010, 12:12 PM
It's simple. The claim that we haven't "drafted well" is just incredibly stupid. The most recent draft is shaping up as maybe the best overall draft in the history of the franchise. With Moreno, Ayers, McBath, and Bruton from the year before.. well I'm pretty damn happy with what this team has done.

No kidding. It's like if your wife buys you this for Xmass;

http://elitechoice.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/f68-power-yacht.jpg


And you're pissed because it's not this;


http://new-motortrends.com/Luxury-yacht.jpg

Dedhed
10-04-2010, 12:20 PM
He talked about both drafts.

And as for the current one, you are right. Its still waaay early and we dont know if Tebow was worth all of those picks that were traded for him. Beadles and Walton havent been impressive at all. Not to say they wont be in the future.
See folks, this is what idiots do. Distort reality, proclaim anything positive way too early to call while locking in anything negative as irreversible fact, and are just completely dishonest.

Way to go tool, keep it up.

tsiguy96
10-04-2010, 12:22 PM
Actually, judging by the way he's playing so far in Detroit, it's looking like Fonz was actually a decent pick. Just because he's not on our roster anymore doesn't mean you discount what he's doing elsewhere. If he turns into a good player for them, it brings the draft grade up. We lose points elsewhere (namely "how did we do on that trade with Detroit") but gain points in the overall draft grade.

based on phonz's reactions to the trade, talking about him having a perception around here that he coudlnt shake etc, he probably did live up to the names given to him, lazy, slow, bad work ethic etc. maybe hes turned that around in detroit now that he realizes his career was on a huge downslope really fast.

Beantown Bronco
10-04-2010, 12:35 PM
based on phonz's reactions to the trade, talking about him having a perception around here that he coudlnt shake etc, he probably did live up to the names given to him, lazy, slow, bad work ethic etc. maybe hes turned that around in detroit now that he realizes his career was on a huge downslope really fast.

Makes sense. I'm sure he took things a little too easy here, probably always figuring in the back of his mind that he was "safe" because of what we gave up to draft him. Combine that with knowing his chances of ever unseating Champ and Goodman last year or this year weren't that good and you have a recipe for laziness and general lack of focus.

We saw what happened to Kolb after just two weeks of "practicing" and living as a backup. Imagine what it can do to a young guy like Fonz, cashing big checks with seemingly no real pressure day to day.

Rohirrim
10-04-2010, 12:41 PM
It's simple. The claim that we haven't "drafted well" is just incredibly stupid. The most recent draft is shaping up as maybe the best overall draft in the history of the franchise. With Moreno, Ayers, McBath, and Bruton from the year before.. well I'm pretty damn happy with what this team has done.

Some of the **** gets so crazy in here I sometimes think I must be at a Tea Party rally.

Beantown Bronco
10-04-2010, 01:11 PM
Some of the **** gets so crazy in here I sometimes think I must be at a Tea Party rally.

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baja
10-04-2010, 02:26 PM
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I'll never know how you recall all these lines but I'm sure glad you do.

Garcia Bronco
10-04-2010, 02:31 PM
Well 10-10 when the team was 24-24 the 3 prior seasons is flaming out.

Seriously. A bunch of my firends were quote 3-10 over the past whatever...and I responded to them that things havene't really changed because we are around and about .500 in league where they try to make everyone average.

BroncoInferno
10-04-2010, 02:36 PM
McD certainly hasnt been exactly frugal with his draft picks. I dont fault King at all for mentioning that

King referred specifically to the picks that we received for Cutler. He's wrong to state those haven't been used well. Ayers and Thomas are both future stars. Tebow and Decker both looked promising in the preseason, though obviously neither has been able to get on the field yet. Quinn is the only pick of the bundle that looks bad at this point. King is simply ignorant in that statement. If he has an issue with the overall drafting, fine...but he specifically referred to the picks received for Cutler.

Mr.Meanie
10-04-2010, 02:41 PM
See folks, this is what idiots do. Distort reality, proclaim anything positive way too early to call while locking in anything negative as irreversible fact, and are just completely dishonest.

Way to go tool, keep it up.

I think you must be new to the drama llama's posts...

epicSocialism4tw
10-04-2010, 03:37 PM
See folks, this is what idiots do. Distort reality, proclaim anything positive way too early to call while locking in anything negative as irreversible fact, and are just completely dishonest.

Way to go tool, keep it up.

Sorry purple haze, but the only distorted reality here is the little bit of reality thats left in that pot-muddled cabeza of yours.

There wasnt anything untrue in my post.

If it hurts your little feminine sensibilities to have reality descend on your fantasy world, then its really not worth addressing you for fear that you may go into the fetal position and have a good cry.

epicSocialism4tw
10-04-2010, 03:39 PM
LOL Ok how are they supposed to play when you'll consider it ok? Walton has been amazing considering he's a rookie. This last game was his first bad game. And Beadles has improved significantly in all the games he's started and this was the first one that he didn't play so who knows. To say they are not "at all" impressive is retarded considering the circumstances. A third round rookie center is starting for us and is playing better than Wiegman was for us.

Sorry hoss, but after yesterday's abysmal showing and seeing Walton get tossed around like a rag doll, I dont see how you can seriously say that he has been playing "well". I didnt say that he cant or wont play well. I said that he hasnt, which is true. He has done okay in pass protection over two of the games, but his run blocking has been a net negative.

NYBronco
10-04-2010, 03:46 PM
He's spot on about Maroney. That guy doesn't run to daylight, he runs to pile-ups.

Hilarious!

cutthemdown
10-04-2010, 05:15 PM
It's simple. The claim that we haven't "drafted well" is just incredibly stupid. The most recent draft is shaping up as maybe the best overall draft in the history of the franchise. With Moreno, Ayers, McBath, and Bruton from the year before.. well I'm pretty damn happy with what this team has done.

Well until Moreno/McBath make more plays I don't think you can really say that.

Has McBath impressed?

Malcontent
10-04-2010, 05:44 PM
Draft JaQuizz Rodgers out of Oregon State....Fast as hell.... and pound for pound the strongest guy on that team.

ColoradoDarin
10-04-2010, 05:55 PM
Well until Moreno/McBath make more plays I don't think you can really say that.

Has McBath impressed?

Yes, McBath has impressed.

ColoradoDarin
10-04-2010, 05:56 PM
Draft JaQuizz Rodgers out of Oregon State....Fast as hell.... and pound for pound the strongest guy on that team.

Oh yeah give me some Quizz! He's MJD's Mini Me :)

Malcontent
10-04-2010, 06:01 PM
Oh yeah give me some Quizz! He's MJD's Mini Me :)

Dude weighs 190lbs...and was carrying 300lb DLmen down the field on Saturday..:strong:

Gort
10-04-2010, 06:24 PM
Some of the **** gets so crazy in here I sometimes think I must be at a Tea Party rally.

following the constitution.
holding government accountable.
demanding government stop spending money it doesn't have.
demanding government stop borrowing money it can never pay back.

yeah, that's all crazy.

would you please do us all a favor and just move to Venezuela already? you'll love it there. there's a little marxist fascist in charge who hates freedom. you'll love it there.

BroncoInferno
10-04-2010, 06:26 PM
following the constitution.
holding government accountable.
demanding government stop spending money it doesn't have.
demanding government stop borrowing money it can never pay back.

yeah, that's all crazy.

would you please do us all a favor and just move to Venezuela already? you'll love it there. there's a little marxist fascist in charge who hates freedom. you'll love it there.

Except the Tea Baggers preach all of that while simultaneously crying "keep your damn government hands off my medicare." Sharp bunch there.

Gort
10-04-2010, 06:30 PM
Except the Tea Baggers preach all of that while simultaneously crying "keep your damn government hands off my medicare." Sharp bunch there.

go to a tea party rally. listen to what they are mad about. it's not politics. it's about the proper role of government.

but you're a jerk, so you won't bother. it's easier to call people vulgar names and sit by yourself in your echo chamber of delusion, huh?

i rarely visit the WRP forum. i'd rather talk Broncos. but you libtards can't help yourself... you've got to let your bigotries bleed over into football threads.

Hamrob
10-04-2010, 07:17 PM
Man, we really need to draft a RB. Make that a priority McDsGawd no! Not if it's another Moreno clone with the 12th pick of the draft!

WolfpackGuy
10-04-2010, 07:19 PM
Who are the top backs coming out?

Hamrob
10-04-2010, 07:26 PM
LOL Ok how are they supposed to play when you'll consider it ok? Walton has been amazing considering he's a rookie. This last game was his first bad game. And Beadles has improved significantly in all the games he's started and this was the first one that he didn't play so who knows. To say they are not "at all" impressive is retarded considering the circumstances. A third round rookie center is starting for us and is playing better than Wiegman was for us.I like both Walton and Beadles and I think they're going to be very good...perhaps by the end of this year. But, right now...they're playing like rookies. And, I really can't see where Walton has played so much better than Wiegman. I mean, be real, we're averaging 2yds a running play over 4 games. Yeah, I like his potential...but, Wiegman wasn't just a lineman...he was the leader of the Oline. We lost alot when he went back to the Chiefs. Down the line we'll be better for having Walton...but, not right now!

broncocalijohn
10-04-2010, 08:46 PM
King asks if Orton can keep this up yet doesnt ask when Cutler is going to be consistent. Bears got the better deal? Says who? Maybe the experts that blasted Denver for the trade and dont want to be proven wrong. Just bad, Peter, just bad.

Bronco Rob
10-05-2010, 08:01 AM
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/702/aviarysportsillustrated.png





:afro:

outdoor_miner
10-05-2010, 12:57 PM
FYI - King issued a correction of his statement about the Broncos mis-using the Cutler picks. Hoo-ray! Now I can sleep better at night! :yayaya:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/10/05/Rams/index.html?eref=sihp


GOOD POINTS, AND I OWE THE BRONCOS A MEA CULPA. "Interesting stuff on the Cutler-Orton comparison. As a Denver fan, I honestly would not take Cutler for Orton straight up at this point. One issue I have is this comment: 'Denver has not drafted well [...] Denver didn't do a good job with those picks.' I am sorry, but that is simply ignorant.
"Robert Ayers, has been beastly against the run this season. He was a big reason Denver shut down Chris Johnson on Sunday with three tackles for loss. I hope you did more research than lazily peruse the stats and see that he has only 1 sack. With Chicago's #12 pick in this draft, they moved down to #22 and selected DeMaryius Thomas, who looks like a future star. With one of the picks acquired in the trade down, they selected the promising WR Ed Decker. And part of the trade down haul put them in position to select Tebow.
"The only pick that looks "bad" from the Cutler trade at this point is Richard Quinn, who Denver traded up for with the 2009 3rd rounder. Doesn't look like a bad haul at all to me overall. Quite the opposite. Please do a little more research before making these blanket statements that make you look ignorant.''
-- Todd, Florence, S.C.
I regret writing what I wrote in that sentence in the Cutler-Orton comparison, because as you accurately point out, it was wrong. The reason I wrote it was I had it in my head that the lost Alphonso Smith pick was a part of their 2010 draft, and though technically it was, it was no reason to declare their 2010 haul a bad one. (The Broncos traded their first-round pick in 2010 to Seattle in 2009 to acquire a high second-round pick that became Smith, and the Broncos gave up on Smith after one season and dealt him to Detroit for the second-to-last pick of the 2009 draft, Dan Gronkowski.) Thanks for calling me on it.


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/10/05/Rams/index.html?eref=sihp#ixzz11VpCkuge

Rulon Velvet Jones
10-05-2010, 01:03 PM
Peter Kingwned.

Malcontent
10-05-2010, 01:12 PM
FYI - King issued a correction of his statement about the Broncos mis-using the Cutler picks. Hoo-ray! Now I can sleep better at night! :yayaya:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/10/05/Rams/index.html?eref=sihp

[/COLOR][/LEFT]

ED Decker??? LMAOHilarious!

PRBronco
10-05-2010, 02:33 PM
ED Decker??? LMAOHilarious!

Hahaha nice one. Who wrote the letter? Must be a maner.

Popps
10-05-2010, 02:42 PM
He prefers "Eddie" Decker.

Rulon Velvet Jones
10-05-2010, 02:47 PM
They might want to correct that one...again.

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BroncoInferno
10-05-2010, 03:09 PM
Hahaha nice one. Who wrote the letter? Must be a maner.

'Twas I. Surprised he published it since I called him ignorant Ha! And the "Ed" Decker bit was a Mane-ian slip...actually, I think it's been corrected in the mailbag since it was originally copied into this thread..