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View Full Version : So, who does Kyle Orton play next week?


Popps
10-03-2010, 01:32 PM
Talk about a 1-man gang.

How about some love for old noodle-arm, folks?

The fact that he's doing what he's doing without a running game is hard to believe. I can't imagine how good he could be if we could actually run the ball.

Props to Kyle. 6 sacks, heavy pressure all day... and he carried the entire offense on his back.

BlaK-Argentina
10-03-2010, 01:37 PM
Unbelievable. He's playing his balls off and doing a terrific job.

I hope Tebow is getting comfortable on that bench.

Bronco Yoda
10-03-2010, 01:37 PM
Orton is on fire. Props to Kyle.

SoCalBronco
10-03-2010, 01:37 PM
He had an outstanding game, today, that's for sure.

Broncos4tw
10-03-2010, 01:39 PM
Orton more than any other player in recent memory, had caused me to change how I think about him. Last year, even taking into consideration his ankle, I thought he was just awful. Poor decisions, fell to the ground, never rushed, locked onto one receiver, dumped the ball of constantly.. I thought he was just the worst thing on our team.

He looks so different this year, like a new player. I think all the Tebow / Quinn attention was great. I think it calmed him down and made him think "Ok.. screw it, I'll just go play." He is looking for more than one receiver, he is drilling passes into small spaces.. he looks so much more confident. He is running it, he is not just going down, he tries to make a play.

And oddly, perhaps the best thing for him was Marshall being released. Not that I think it was a stroke of genius on McD's part or anything, but now he cannot rely on one receiver. He is forced to find guys. And it's making a world of difference.

Night and day.. all I can say. He is such a changed player this year, I'm very impressed with him.

spdirty
10-03-2010, 01:39 PM
Every time I see him play this season, I am getting more and more comfortable with him. Great win, and great effort by Orton. Gonna make a ****ton of money in a couple years.

WolfpackGuy
10-03-2010, 01:40 PM
It's gonna be ugly next week.

Anybody wanna buy my tickets?

The MVPlaya
10-03-2010, 01:41 PM
It's gonna be ugly next week.

Anybody wanna buy my tickets?

http://thegifblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/jesus-agrees.gif

Popps
10-03-2010, 01:41 PM
Orton is a classic Orange Mane example of why you don't judge a QB by how he looks, or whether or not he has a "rocket arm."

We watched know-nothing trolls like BPC trash this guy and call him garbage all last season, and all off-season.


Great to see patient Broncos fans rewarded with top quality QB play.

Also, as much as people will hate this... you have to credit McDaniels with this kid's progress. There's no question about that. He's a different QB than he was in Chicago.

Miss I.
10-03-2010, 01:42 PM
Go Kyle! Go Broncos! We Won! We Won! I am so very happy. Good job King Neckbeard and props to all the guys for getting the W. ;D

Popps
10-03-2010, 01:42 PM
It's gonna be ugly next week.

Anybody wanna buy my tickets?

Why would you have tickets, anyway?

To root on the visiting team?

Popps
10-03-2010, 01:43 PM
Someone post "the" Kyle GIF, please.

I need it.

spdirty
10-03-2010, 01:43 PM
Orton more than any other player in recent memory, had caused me to change how I think about him. Last year, even taking into consideration his ankle, I thought he was just awful. Poor decisions, fell to the ground, never rushed, locked onto one receiver, dumped the ball of constantly.. I thought he was just the worst thing on our team.

He looks so different this year, like a new player. I think all the Tebow / Quinn attention was great. I think it calmed him down and made him think "Ok.. screw it, I'll just go play." He is looking for more than one receiver, he is drilling passes into small spaces.. he looks so much more confident. He is running it, he is not just going down, he tries to make a play.

And oddly, perhaps the best thing for him was Marshall being released. Not that I think it was a stroke of genius on McD's part or anything, but now he cannot rely on one receiver. He is forced to find guys. And it's making a world of difference.

Night and day.. all I can say. He is such a changed player this year, I'm very impressed with him.

Hammer. Nail. Head. I was a big hater of this guy last year all through the summer. And I am very pleasantly surprised with his performance this year, and especially in a game that was potentially a season saver/breaker.

brncs_fan
10-03-2010, 01:44 PM
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/johncraig0880/Ortonchill.jpg

Br0nc0Buster
10-03-2010, 01:44 PM
Orton also was the most effective rusher today

Williams
10-03-2010, 01:45 PM
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/broncoking16/jack-daniels.gif



This one's for Kyle.

Sassy
10-03-2010, 01:46 PM
Orton more than any other player in recent memory, had caused me to change how I think about him. Last year, even taking into consideration his ankle, I thought he was just awful. Poor decisions, fell to the ground, never rushed, locked onto one receiver, dumped the ball of constantly.. I thought he was just the worst thing on our team.

He looks so different this year, like a new player. I think all the Tebow / Quinn attention was great. I think it calmed him down and made him think "Ok.. screw it, I'll just go play." He is looking for more than one receiver, he is drilling passes into small spaces.. he looks so much more confident. He is running it, he is not just going down, he tries to make a play.

And oddly, perhaps the best thing for him was Marshall being released. Not that I think it was a stroke of genius on McD's part or anything, but now he cannot rely on one receiver. He is forced to find guys. And it's making a world of difference.

Night and day.. all I can say. He is such a changed player this year, I'm very impressed with him.

Two HEALTHY ankles might be helping his game and his confidence....which looks to be sky high right now.

brncs_fan
10-03-2010, 01:46 PM
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr194/lorincej/KyleOrton.gif

Broncos4tw
10-03-2010, 01:46 PM
Well to be fair, he WAS pretty much garbage last season. He did not play well at all. Poor decisions, he seemed to give up a lot, his vision was very questionable. He looks vastly improved this year.

I was down on him last year, and I'd do it again, to any player, who looks like garbage. And I'm willing to turn around and give props if he earns them.

brncs_fan
10-03-2010, 01:47 PM
http://www.drewlitton.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/ortonsweakarm.gif

fontaine
10-03-2010, 01:49 PM
King Kyle!!!

:afro:

BroncoInferno
10-03-2010, 01:50 PM
Well to be fair, he WAS pretty much garbage last season.

No, he wasn't. Was it an All-Pro year for him? No. But 3,802 yards 21 TDs and 13 INTs is solid QB play by any REASONABLE standard. He's taken it to a new level this season.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-03-2010, 01:51 PM
Well to be fair, he WAS pretty much garbage last season. He did not play well at all. Poor decisions, he seemed to give up a lot, his vision was very questionable. He looks vastly improved this year.

I was down on him last year, and I'd do it again, to any player, who looks like garbage. And I'm willing to turn around and give props if he earns them.

Garbage last season? New offense, 3,800 yards, over 60 percent completion percentage, over 20 tds, and i think 12 picks? Yeah, horrible.

lostknight
10-03-2010, 01:52 PM
Well to be fair, he WAS pretty much garbage last season. He did not play well at all. Poor decisions, he seemed to give up a lot, his vision was very questionable. He looks vastly improved this year.


I don't agree here. He was pretty middle of the pack, but infinity better then Cassel and others. Ironically, the reality is that Orton may do better then a rushing game, because the O-line is being targeted at defending the QB more then rushing the ball.

Rohirrim
10-03-2010, 01:53 PM
That performance was all guts. Very inspiring. Kyle gets the game ball.

Broncos4tw
10-03-2010, 01:53 PM
I wasn't talking about his #'s. #'s don't mean a hell of a lot. And it's not his #'s that are impressing me this year, either.

BroncoInferno
10-03-2010, 01:58 PM
I wasn't talking about his #'s. #'s don't mean a hell of a lot. And it's not his #'s that are impressing me this year, either.

It's true that numbers don't tell the whole stary, but you don't produce those types of solid numbers if your "garbage." That analysis is simply wrong and ignorant.

rbackfactory80
10-03-2010, 02:02 PM
Very strong game by Kyle. Even the pick was understandable. I wanted to see this team win a gritty road game and today they did.

jsco70
10-03-2010, 02:02 PM
you have to credit McDaniels with this kid's progress. There's no question about that. He's a different QB than he was in Chicago.

Agree. Also need to credit McDaniel with his system. He comes up with some very innovative pass plays.

As for Orton, he's greatly exceeded expectations. However, I still cringe whenever he's forced to escape pressure. While he's made a couple of plays scrambling this year, it usually ends badly.

Popps
10-03-2010, 02:04 PM
Agree. Also need to credit McDaniel with his system. He comes up with some very innovative pass plays.

As for Orton, he's greatly exceeded expectations. However, I still cringe whenever he's forced to escape pressure. While he's made a couple of plays scrambling this year, it usually ends badly.

Actually, it doesn't. He does fine when he alludes pressure.

What I will say is... he'll take a sack before taking a chance with a bad throw, and in reality... that's just fine.

Popps
10-03-2010, 02:04 PM
It's funny to see the kooks around here talking about his 3rd down work, too... as if ANY QB is going to be great on 3rd down with zero threat of a running game.

TonyR
10-03-2010, 02:08 PM
... you have to credit McDaniels with this kid's progress. There's no question about that.

Agree, but many of these losers don't have time to give him credit for anything because they're too busy blaming him for everything or outright rooting against him. The game thread today is just pathetic. Full of people ripping the team and coach every chance they get. You'd think we lost today.

TonyR
10-03-2010, 02:09 PM
Imagine how well KO might play if we can put together any semblance of a rushing game? Horrible run game and ppor protection today and he still got it done!

Los Broncos
10-03-2010, 02:10 PM
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr194/lorincej/KyleOrton.gif

Hilarious! every time.

Pick Six
10-03-2010, 02:12 PM
Orton has many options from which to choose. Last year, he had Brandon Marshall. Spreading the ball around works, in absence of a running game...

ColoradoDarin
10-03-2010, 02:14 PM
Anyone who saw what offense he ran at Purdue and what he did there isn't surprised by this.

NYBronco
10-03-2010, 02:18 PM
Well to be fair, he WAS pretty much garbage last season. He did not play well at all. Poor decisions, he seemed to give up a lot, his vision was very questionable. He looks vastly improved this year.

I was down on him last year, and I'd do it again, to any player, who looks like garbage. And I'm willing to turn around and give props if he earns them.

Garbage? Seriously? New team, coach, system and he still gets 3800+ yards.

Popps
10-03-2010, 02:26 PM
Garbage? Seriously? New team, coach, system and he still gets 3800+ yards.

People just don't know what they're looking at.

Taco John
10-03-2010, 02:30 PM
Kyle Orton may well steal the much envied title "second best quarterback to ever play for the Broncos" from Craig Morton. :poke:

Great game Kyle. You truly play with the fire that I expect from this organization and I love watching you out there giving it your all every play of every game.

Popps
10-03-2010, 02:31 PM
Kyle Orton may well steal the much envied title "second best quarterback to ever play for the Broncos" from Craig Morton. :poke:.

B#tch, please.

Ha!

Paladin
10-03-2010, 02:32 PM
It's true that numbers don't tell the whole stary, but you don't produce those types of solid numbers if your "garbage." That analysis is simply wrong and ignorant.

Mostly ignorant........

Popps
10-03-2010, 02:32 PM
I love watching you out there giving it your all every play of every game.

Seriously, though... you have to think that guys love playing for him, too. I think he's underrated as a leader.

Great to see him step up with a game like this after what I thought was a lot of undue nit-picking about his game last wee.

cutthemdown
10-03-2010, 02:34 PM
It's Mcadaniels who deserves the credit. He did it with Cassel and now he's done it with Orton.

The question is can get running game going. Obviously he designs some slick passing attacks.

Popps
10-03-2010, 02:38 PM
http://www.drewlitton.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/ortonsweakarm.gif

That's why he's drawing cartoons and not working for an NFL team.

NYBronco
10-03-2010, 02:41 PM
People just don't know what they're looking at.

Or... with their feelings hurt and all they continue to remain blind and close minded until Shanahan, Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler and the almighty Hillis return. Reasonable people/fans know that will not happen and can see the tranformation to a better TEAM.

Taco John
10-03-2010, 02:54 PM
Seriously, though... you have to think that guys love playing for him, too. I think he's underrated as a leader.

Great to see him step up with a game like this after what I thought was a lot of undue nit-picking about his game last wee.


The guy just flat out lays it out there. He pulled Josh's bacon out of the fire today simply by refusing to lose.

I don't care what anybody has to say about Kyle Orton because Kyle Orton is a winner. Period. The guy is just a winner.

spdirty
10-03-2010, 03:26 PM
Or... with their feelings hurt and all they continue to remain blind and close minded until Shanahan, Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler and the almighty Hillis return. Reasonable people/fans know that will not happen and can see the tranformation to a better TEAM.

I don't think you can say we are a better team until we get a half decent running game.

I would really like to see what Orton can do this year if/when the running game gets to be somewhat competent.

Really wishing Lenwhale would be available this week, and would like to see what Brown can do.

ZachKC
10-03-2010, 04:16 PM
Any Bronco fan who is not fully behind this guy after his play this season needs to be fit for clown shoes. Big floppy clown shoes.

ZachKC
10-03-2010, 04:17 PM
The guy just flat out lays it out there. He pulled Josh's bacon out of the fire today simply by refusing to lose.

I don't care what anybody has to say about Kyle Orton because Kyle Orton is a winner. Period. The guy is just a winner.

Yes. I greatly dislike the Broncos and absolutely love watching him play.

BlaK-Argentina
10-03-2010, 04:17 PM
It's Mcadaniels who deserves the credit. He did it with Cassel and now he's done it with Orton.

The question is can get running game going. Obviously he designs some slick passing attacks.

ROFL!

Yeah Orton deserves NO credit.

**** off.

Sassy
10-03-2010, 04:35 PM
The guy just flat out lays it out there. He pulled Josh's bacon out of the fire today simply by refusing to lose.

I don't care what anybody has to say about Kyle Orton because Kyle Orton is a winner. Period. The guy is just a winner.

:sunshine:

Sassy
10-03-2010, 04:36 PM
It's Mcadaniels who deserves the credit. He did it with Cassel and now he's done it with Orton.

The question is can get running game going. Obviously he designs some slick passing attacks.

BS McD might call the plays...but Kyle needs to execute them. McD isn't ON the field.

cutthemdown
10-03-2010, 04:40 PM
ROFL!

Yeah Orton deserves NO credit.

**** off.

I didn't really mean it like that but whatever.

Kaylore
10-03-2010, 04:42 PM
They share credit. McDaniels is working wonders with him (imagine how Tebow and Quinn are progressing) and Orton has raised his level of play. They bring in Quinn and draft Tebow in the first round and Orton decides to play at a pro-bowl level. Remember what Plummer did when we drafted Cutler? :kubiak:

TonyR
10-03-2010, 04:45 PM
Hey, wait, I thought Orton and the Bronco passing game were doomed since McD "gave away" Brandon Marshall! He was our whole offense last year, after all.

BlaK-Argentina
10-03-2010, 04:47 PM
Play of the game:

Kyle eluding the rush, stepping up and throwing a bomb to Gaffney who gets the PI call on 2nd and freaking 25.

cutthemdown
10-03-2010, 04:50 PM
They share credit. McDaniels is working wonders with him (imagine how Tebow and Quinn are progressing) and Orton has raised his level of play. They bring in Quinn and draft Tebow in the first round and Orton decides to play at a pro-bowl level. Remember what Plummer did when we drafted Cutler? :kubiak:

The only reason I said that was because Orton looks nothing like he did before. Also Cassal has never looked good again really since he parted ways with Mcd.

For sure though the player always deserves a ton of credit. without Orton playing this well Bronco are winless.

Still seems like a tough road to haul for another 12 games. Him getting hit, no running game, special teams break downs etc etc. I mean can he throw ball 400 more times and survive?

I am worried about it. At some point we have to get a running game going. It's so bad though. It's by far the worst rushing attack i have ever seen in the NFL.

Has a team ever been worst through 4 games?

NYBronco
10-03-2010, 04:53 PM
Play of the game:

Kyle eluding the rush, stepping up and throwing a bomb to Gaffney who gets the PI call on 2nd and freaking 25.

That was a nice dink pass or was that one of those dunk passes... no matter Broncos got the win. :wave:

BlaK-Argentina
10-03-2010, 04:54 PM
The only reason I said that was because Orton looks nothing like he did before. Also Cassal has never looked good again really since he parted ways with Mcd.

For sure though the player always deserves a ton of credit. without Orton playing this well Bronco are winless.

Still seems like a tough road to haul for another 12 games. Him getting hit, no running game, special teams break downs etc etc. I mean can he throw ball 400 more times and survive?

I am worried about it. At some point we have to get a running game going. It's so bad though. It's by far the worst rushing attack i have ever seen in the NFL.

Has a team ever been worst through 4 games?

Fair enough, sorry about my response.

barryr
10-03-2010, 04:57 PM
Orton is showing he is a much better QB than some people around here want to admit he is for whatever reason. Started last year with this silly notion he had a weak arm. You don't have to hate Orton because you hate McDaniels and want him to fail.

Rausch 2.0
10-03-2010, 05:19 PM
Orton is showing he is a much better QB than some people around here want to admit he is for whatever reason. Started last year with this silly notion he had a weak arm. You don't have to hate Orton because you hate McDaniels and want him to fail.

Behind a good line I see him much like a Trent Green.

Solid pocket passer, able to make all the throws, but needs that extra time...

ColoradoDarin
10-03-2010, 05:23 PM
Behind a good line I see him much like a Trent Green.

Solid pocket passer, able to make all the throws, but needs that extra time...

Didn't have that situation today? Orton was damn near running for his life most of the time.

KevinJames
10-03-2010, 05:25 PM
It's Mcadaniels who deserves the credit. He did it with Cassel and now he's done it with Orton.

The question is can get running game going. Obviously he designs some slick passing attacks.

Not to take anything away from Orton but its true McDaniels is a offensive genius when it comes to the passing game.

I would like to see Orton look guys off more and now stare down 1 WR.

but hey Orton is a top 10 QB right now in my eyes. :strong:

Hulamau
10-03-2010, 05:36 PM
Talk about a 1-man gang.

How about some love for old noodle-arm, folks?

The fact that he's doing what he's doing without a running game is hard to believe. I can't imagine how good he could be if we could actually run the ball.

Props to Kyle. 6 sacks, heavy pressure all day... and he carried the entire offense on his back.

Yep gotta give it to him all the way. Even the INT was 'situationally' understandable and he gets a pass on it. It was 3rd and 11 while trailing late and well inside the Titans territory so even if it was INT'ed the odds were it would be no worse than a muffed punt on the Titans 30. He tried to thread it to Lloyd in between two DBs the first or whom nicked the ball on the way through. Tough throw but it didnt cost us either.

All in all, good decisions by Kyle all game long. Only saw one other muffed opportunity when Titans were confused on D and we had a couple guys open on the right side and Kyle went to Graham on the left for an incomplete.

Other than that, it was what is becoming a typical banner day by #8!! If he keeps this up he's liable to break Brady's single season passing yards record. .. now if we can only get the TDs in sync we'll be unstoppable..

Need some symblance of a running game before thats likely to happen.

Garcia Bronco
10-03-2010, 05:42 PM
He looks the same to me and on slightly better than last year. This isn't new.

HEAV
10-03-2010, 06:06 PM
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/johncraig0880/Ortonchill.jpg

Never gets old!

Rock Chalk
10-03-2010, 06:07 PM
Not to take anything away from Orton but its true McDaniels is a offensive genius when it comes to the passing game.

I would like to see Orton look guys off more and now stare down 1 WR.

but hey Orton is a top 10 QB right now in my eyes. :strong:

I think Orton is doing a MUCH better job of moving the safety with his eyes. He doesnt always do it but I've noticed he has been doing it a HELL OF A LOT more this year than he ever has.

LRtagger
10-03-2010, 06:14 PM
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-ash1/v252/179/0/14008709378/n14008709378_448504_1609.jpg

BlaK-Argentina
10-03-2010, 06:43 PM
Found this on the GoTitans board... did Kyle really say this? Anyone know?

"We were under siege maybe a little bit in the backfield, but I think for the most part we were the tougher team today. You always hear about how tough they are and all of that stuff. I don’t think they are tough. I think they are cheap and it was one of the cheapest games that I’ve ever seen out of some of those players. I thought the refs did a great job of keeping it under control, but when we’ve got Chris Kuper with his helmet off, getting punched and all of that stuff, it’s ridiculous. If that is the type of player that Cortland Finnegan wants to be, well then he is a cheap player—he is not a good player."

Cito Pelon
10-03-2010, 06:58 PM
Talk about a 1-man gang.

How about some love for old noodle-arm, folks?

The fact that he's doing what he's doing without a running game is hard to believe. I can't imagine how good he could be if we could actually run the ball.

Props to Kyle. 6 sacks, heavy pressure all day... and he carried the entire offense on his back.

Agreed.

Captain Bronco
10-03-2010, 07:02 PM
Found this on the GoTitans board... did Kyle really say this? Anyone know?

"We were under siege maybe a little bit in the backfield, but I think for the most part we were the tougher team today. You always hear about how tough they are and all of that stuff. I donít think they are tough. I think they are cheap and it was one of the cheapest games that Iíve ever seen out of some of those players. I thought the refs did a great job of keeping it under control, but when weíve got Chris Kuper with his helmet off, getting punched and all of that stuff, itís ridiculous. If that is the type of player that Cortland Finnegan wants to be, well then he is a cheap playeróhe is not a good player."



Yep, he definitely said it. This Denver Post article also has it:
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16242898?source=rss

Cito Pelon
10-03-2010, 07:07 PM
Man, talk about answering the bell, Orton has done so.

iDENVER
10-03-2010, 07:17 PM
It's gonna be ugly next week.

Anybody wanna buy my tickets?

u have tickets really lol not sure if ur joking ?

gyldenlove
10-03-2010, 07:26 PM
Yep gotta give it to him all the way. Even the INT was 'situationally' understandable and he gets a pass on it. It was 3rd and 11 while trailing late and well inside the Titans territory so even if it was INT'ed the odds were it would be no worse than a muffed punt on the Titans 30. He tried to thread it to Lloyd in between two DBs the first or whom nicked the ball on the way through. Tough throw but it didnt cost us either.

All in all, good decisions by Kyle all game long. Only saw one other muffed opportunity when Titans were confused on D and we had a couple guys open on the right side and Kyle went to Graham on the left for an incomplete.

Other than that, it was what is becoming a typical banner day by #8!! If he keeps this up he's liable to break Brady's single season passing yards record. .. now if we can only get the TDs in sync we'll be unstoppable..

Need some symblance of a running game before thats likely to happen.

I noticed a few bad decisions (not by Orton). On the 3rd and 4th and 3 that ended the turnover on downs drive, we had nobody around the front of the end zone, like the play Royal scored on earlier, we had 2 guys in the back of the end zone and a couple of out routes in the middle of the end zone, It is more dangerous passing all the way through the end zone because someone can come underneath the pass and tip it like on the interception.

On the interception play we had 2 guys pull up well short of 1st down allowing the defense to bunch up and force the turnover, Orton should probably have dumped it, but I think it was a bad call to have multiple players come up well short of 1st down on a 3rd down.

Clockwork Orange
10-03-2010, 07:29 PM
Found this on the GoTitans board... did Kyle really say this? Anyone know?

"We were under siege maybe a little bit in the backfield, but I think for the most part we were the tougher team today. You always hear about how tough they are and all of that stuff. I donít think they are tough. I think they are cheap and it was one of the cheapest games that Iíve ever seen out of some of those players. I thought the refs did a great job of keeping it under control, but when weíve got Chris Kuper with his helmet off, getting punched and all of that stuff, itís ridiculous. If that is the type of player that Cortland Finnegan wants to be, well then he is a cheap playeróhe is not a good player."

That's nothing anybody didn't already know. Finnegan is well known for being a hothead and dirty player.

I like it, though. I like Orton not being an introvert and showing some fire. I like him taking issue with opponents taking liberties with his teammates. That's what leaders do. You **** with one of us, you **** with all of us. Way to be, Kyle.

Cito Pelon
10-03-2010, 07:48 PM
Very strong game by Kyle. Even the pick was understandable. I wanted to see this team win a gritty road game and today they did.

Yup.

Cito Pelon
10-03-2010, 07:57 PM
Actually, it doesn't. He does fine when he alludes pressure.

What I will say is... he'll take a sack before taking a chance with a bad throw, and in reality... that's just fine.

Yeah, Orton is smart with the ball, always keeps his team in the game, doesn't give it away easy.