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bronco militia
09-28-2010, 02:52 PM
Orton's great stats can be misleading, McDaniels says
The Denver Post
Posted: 09/28/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT


Read more: Orton's great stats can be misleading, McDaniels says - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16190952#ixzz10rMV0GLB

There are times when stats are for baseball.

And there are times when the numbers beneath the numbers tell a story everyone should know.

Take the 476-yard passing performance Sunday by Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton. On the surface, it appeared the Broncos lost to the Indianapolis Colts 27-13 despite Orton's outstanding performance.

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels pointed out some hidden statistics during his news conference Monday.

"He's being productive, but I tend to think about the quarterback relative to wins and losses, third down and red zone," McDaniels said. "Yesterday, we weren't very good on third down, we weren't very good in the red zone and we lost the game.

"Certainly that's not a reflection solely on Kyle Orton. I thought he did a lot of great things yesterday in the game, and I think he's done a lot of really good things all season long. I think he would agree entirely with my assessment of our team, and our quarterback has to play well in those situations for us to have a chance to win against good teams."

On first and second downs, Orton was all-pro caliber: 29-of-42 for 398 yards, one touchdown and no interceptions for a 107.0 passer rating.

But on third and fourth downs, Orton was 8-of-15 for 78 yards, no touchdowns and a pick. And he was only 4-of-13 in the red zone.



Read more: Orton's great stats can be misleading, McDaniels says - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16190952#ixzz10rMRWQtD

bowtown
09-28-2010, 02:53 PM
Tebowwwwwwwwwww

Rabb
09-28-2010, 02:55 PM
I think that is fair, as a matter of fact the other side of the field that day showed how important a QB is on third down.

Orton and the O will figure it out.

Dedhed
09-28-2010, 02:57 PM
Another example of McDaniels only caring about the bottom line.

baja
09-28-2010, 02:58 PM
Orton's great stats can be misleading, McDaniels says
The Denver Post
Posted: 09/28/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT


Read more: Orton's great stats can be misleading, McDaniels says - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16190952#ixzz10rMV0GLB

There are times when stats are for baseball.

And there are times when the numbers beneath the numbers tell a story everyone should know.

Take the 476-yard passing performance Sunday by Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton. On the surface, it appeared the Broncos lost to the Indianapolis Colts 27-13 despite Orton's outstanding performance.

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels pointed out some hidden statistics during his news conference Monday.

"He's being productive, but I tend to think about the quarterback relative to wins and losses, third down and red zone," McDaniels said. "Yesterday, we weren't very good on third down, we weren't very good in the red zone and we lost the game.

"Certainly that's not a reflection solely on Kyle Orton. I thought he did a lot of great things yesterday in the game, and I think he's done a lot of really good things all season long. I think he would agree entirely with my assessment of our team, and our quarterback has to play well in those situations for us to have a chance to win against good teams."

On first and second downs, Orton was all-pro caliber: 29-of-42 for 398 yards, one touchdown and no interceptions for a 107.0 passer rating.

But on third and fourth downs, Orton was 8-of-15 for 78 yards, no touchdowns and a pick. And he was only 4-of-13 in the red zone.



Read more: Orton's great stats can be misleading, McDaniels says - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16190952#ixzz10rMRWQtD

This is exactly what I saw on Sunday.

Kyle didn't have a great game. His amazing receivers bailed him out time and time again. This is not to say he isn't a very good QB because he is and he will win games for us. He just needs to find a little "it" in the fourth quarter and in the Red Zone. A killer instinct if you will.

bronco militia
09-28-2010, 03:03 PM
while I agree with Josh's statements, would it seem more productive to have not shared them with the media?

TheProfessor
09-28-2010, 03:04 PM
Orton has been struggling on third down since he got here.

Now to be fair, some of that is due to poor gains on 1st and 2nd down leaving us in 3rd and long.

Regardless he needs to improve his numbers on 3rd down.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-28-2010, 03:06 PM
What part of 1-2 was misleading?

Beantown Bronco
09-28-2010, 03:06 PM
Orton has been struggling on third down since he got here.


Great timing. One week after Orton pretty much sets all time NFL records for 3rd down performance....

bendog
09-28-2010, 03:06 PM
while I agree with Josh's statements, would it seem more productive to have not shared them with the media?

Da bus! Da bus!

Dedhed
09-28-2010, 03:07 PM
Orton has been struggling on third down since he got here.

Now to be fair, some of that is due to poor gains on 1st and 2nd down leaving us in 3rd and long.

Regardless he needs to improve his numbers on 3rd down.
Well, last week I'm pretty sure he had the best 3rd down conversion percentage in franchise history, so I'm not sure that take holds water entirely.

This week was a disaster, though.

jmz313
09-28-2010, 03:09 PM
And I tend to think about the head coaches relevant to wins and losses, player production, and game management. Everyone needs to do better.

jhns
09-28-2010, 03:09 PM
Great timing. One week after Orton pretty much sets all time NFL records for 3rd down performance....

McDaniels said it as well. What exactly are you saying anyways? Being good for a single game means that you can't be bad? That is great logic.

Dedhed
09-28-2010, 03:14 PM
What exactly are you saying anyways? Being good for a single game means that you can't be bad? That is great logic.

Unless it's in regards to Hillis or Cutler, right?

Kaylore
09-28-2010, 03:15 PM
This is an excellent thread. I heard the press conference today (seems most people here still don't listen to them. They really are some of the best times to just learn about football) and wondered if anyone would catch this. Orton regressed a bit on third down and in the redzone he needs to be more clutch. They'll get more out of him, but the Shadow of Tebow lingers. Tebow was one of the most clutch QB's in NCAA history and I wouldn't be shocked to see him take the reigns within two years.

Still, I think Orton will improve on third down.

bendog
09-28-2010, 03:15 PM
and they're off heading for the first turn with ......

Evenrude
09-28-2010, 03:15 PM
Or it could be this:

The current incarnation of McDaniels offense, with this personnel, works great between the 20s when the defense gets spread out and mismatches are created. Once things become more compact and it comes down players beating the defense one on one it struggles.

Injuries to the RBs, no one filling the "big" WR role (Brandon Marshall), two rookies on the O'line, no TE...... doesn't help Redzone efficiency either. Once those are rectified we'll be in business.

Beantown Bronco
09-28-2010, 03:19 PM
McDaniels said it as well. What exactly are you saying anyways? Being good for a single game means that you can't be bad? That is great logic.

McD said "yesterday", NOT "since Kyle's been here"

BIG difference.

strafen
09-28-2010, 03:20 PM
while I agree with Josh's statements, would it seem more productive to have not shared them with the media?Yeah, people are stupid enough not to realize what's going on.
Do you think that this is news to anybody?
Josh is validating what some of us have been saying.

Inkana7
09-28-2010, 03:42 PM
This is a breath of fresh air compared to Shanahan, who would be heaping praise upon Kyle for all the yardage he put up.

Popps
09-28-2010, 03:42 PM
Another example of McDaniels only caring about the bottom line.

And make no mistake, he's lighting a little more fire under Orton.

Kyle knows he's improved, but we still have improvements to make.

That said, it seems to me that Kyle is the least of the problems, overall.

Rabb
09-28-2010, 03:44 PM
And make no mistake, he's lighting a little more fire under Orton.

Kyle knows he's improved, but we still have improvements to make.

That said, it seems to me that Kyle is the least of the problems, overall.

agree

the kid has done nothing but respond to every challenge presented to him since 2009 ended

I don't think this is any different

bendog
09-28-2010, 03:44 PM
This is a breath of fresh air compared to Shanahan, who would be heaping praise upon Kyle for all the yardage he put up.

OR, he'd draft a new qb .....

That One Guy
09-28-2010, 03:54 PM
So Orton sucked on 3rd down the first week and the Broncos lost a game to a horrible team, played great on 3rd down in the 2nd game where we stomped the team that just beat the Chargers, then had a down week again and the Broncos lost again.

Sounds like vindication for Rev, to me.

lostknight
09-28-2010, 03:59 PM
Wow, Orton threw his receivers under the bus, now Josh throws him under the bus.

Good week in Dove Valley.

Bob's your Information Minister
09-28-2010, 03:59 PM
I think it's common knowledge that Orton is ****.

Rabb
09-28-2010, 04:07 PM
So Orton sucked on 3rd down the first week and the Broncos lost a game to a horrible team

I looked at the stats against the Jags, here are all the 3rd down results in order

Holding, Sack, Incomplete pass to Gaffney, Delay of game, completed to Royal (for a first down), Buckhalter run (followed by a 4th and 1 Buckhalter run for the first), Sacked, completed to Royal (for a first down), Sacked, 5 yard scramble for the first down, delay of game, pass to Royal (short of the first), Incomplete to Lloyd

I will give you the delay of games, but he wasn't bad passing on 3rd down overall

not to mention, the line didn't do him many favors that game

and no, I am not saying he was GREAT on 3rd down, but he wasn't THE problem that game...at all

Popps
09-28-2010, 04:08 PM
agree

the kid has done nothing but respond to every challenge presented to him since 2009 ended

I don't think this is any different

It's also worth noting that Kyle has done what he's done with NO threat of a running game.

In fairness, McDaniels should be considering that with his statements, as well.

snowspot66
09-28-2010, 04:11 PM
Wow, Orton threw his receivers under the bus, now Josh throws him under the bus.

Good week in Dove Valley.

You read what you want to read.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-28-2010, 04:12 PM
Wow, Orton threw his receivers under the bus, now Josh throws him under the bus.

Good week in Dove Valley.

Threw his receivers under the bus? By saying "we" need to improve?

Your brain is broke'd.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-28-2010, 04:13 PM
I think it's common knowledge that Cassell is ****.

/fixed

_Oro_
09-28-2010, 04:20 PM
Where's Cutler? We need someone to throw the O-line under the bus... They remain unscathed so far.

ghwk
09-28-2010, 04:22 PM
Well, last week I'm pretty sure he had the best 3rd down conversion percentage in franchise history, so I'm not sure that take holds water entirely.

This week was a disaster, though.

Last week we played the seachickens.

baja
09-28-2010, 04:31 PM
UNDER THE BUS = pathetic take

No wonder this country is so fucqed up we have raised a couple generations of fools.

Chris
09-28-2010, 04:36 PM
Wow, Orton threw his receivers under the bus, now Josh throws him under the bus.

Good week in Dove Valley.

http://www.troll-busters.com/mediumTroll.gif

gtown
09-28-2010, 04:38 PM
McD doesn't beat around the bush. Hard to be good in the red zone if you have no short yardage running game and the D can bring more pressure. Hopefully the three rooks on the OL improve as the year goes on and we finally get the TE involved down there.

Tombstone RJ
09-28-2010, 04:39 PM
Orton's great stats can be misleading, McDaniels says
The Denver Post
Posted: 09/28/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT


Read more: Orton's great stats can be misleading, McDaniels says - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16190952#ixzz10rMV0GLB

There are times when stats are for baseball.

And there are times when the numbers beneath the numbers tell a story everyone should know.

Take the 476-yard passing performance Sunday by Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton. On the surface, it appeared the Broncos lost to the Indianapolis Colts 27-13 despite Orton's outstanding performance.

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels pointed out some hidden statistics during his news conference Monday.

He's being productive, but I tend to think about the quarterback relative to wins and" losses, third down and red zone," McDaniels said. "Yesterday, we weren't very good on third down, we weren't very good in the red zone and we lost the game."

"Certainly that's not a reflection solely on Kyle Orton. I thought he did a lot of great things yesterday in the game, and I think he's done a lot of really good things all season long. I think he would agree entirely with my assessment of our team, and our quarterback has to play well in those situations for us to have a chance to win against good teams."

On first and second downs, Orton was all-pro caliber: 29-of-42 for 398 yards, one touchdown and no interceptions for a 107.0 passer rating.

But on third and fourth downs, Orton was 8-of-15 for 78 yards, no touchdowns and a pick. And he was only 4-of-13 in the red zone.


Read more: Orton's great stats can be misleading, McDaniels says - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16190952#ixzz10rMRWQtD

I love this coach. He cuts right to the essence of what it means to be a productive offense. He gets it.

Broncoman13
09-28-2010, 04:54 PM
What part of 1-2 was misleading?

So how did Clady look to you there Doc?

broncosteven
09-28-2010, 05:14 PM
This is an excellent thread. I heard the press conference today (seems most people here still don't listen to them. They really are some of the best times to just learn about football) and wondered if anyone would catch this. Orton regressed a bit on third down and in the redzone he needs to be more clutch. They'll get more out of him, but the Shadow of Tebow lingers. Tebow was one of the most clutch QB's in NCAA history and I wouldn't be shocked to see him take the reigns within two years.

Still, I think Orton will improve on third down.

It would be nice to have a run game to help Kyle out a bit, the dude had to throw 57 times. It would be nice to have a run game that you could turn to every now and then on 3rd and 3 let alone picking up the 3rd 1 or 3rd and goal from the 1 or 4th and goal from the 1...

57 times Orton had to drop back. Ballance

WolfpackGuy
09-28-2010, 05:18 PM
Now Orton will demand a trade.

LOL

Dagmar
09-28-2010, 05:25 PM
I think it's common knowledge that Orton is ****.

http://i52.tinypic.com/2r7ppjm.png

http://s7.tinypic.com/jv58r7_th.jpg

Dagmar
09-28-2010, 05:25 PM
Now Orton will demand a trade.

LOL

Only little b****es do that...

Popps
09-28-2010, 05:26 PM
Cassel has thrown for 500 yards?

Is that a typo?

briane
09-28-2010, 05:31 PM
Another example of McDaniels only caring about the bottom line.

well, I only care about the bottom line. Would much rather put up 100 yds of offense and win than 500 yds and lose. Screw the stats....give me the W's

gyldenlove
09-28-2010, 05:34 PM
Orton's great stats can be misleading, McDaniels says
The Denver Post
Posted: 09/28/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT


Read more: Orton's great stats can be misleading, McDaniels says - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16190952#ixzz10rMV0GLB

There are times when stats are for baseball.

And there are times when the numbers beneath the numbers tell a story everyone should know.

Take the 476-yard passing performance Sunday by Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton. On the surface, it appeared the Broncos lost to the Indianapolis Colts 27-13 despite Orton's outstanding performance.

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels pointed out some hidden statistics during his news conference Monday.

"He's being productive, but I tend to think about the quarterback relative to wins and losses, third down and red zone," McDaniels said. "Yesterday, we weren't very good on third down, we weren't very good in the red zone and we lost the game.

"Certainly that's not a reflection solely on Kyle Orton. I thought he did a lot of great things yesterday in the game, and I think he's done a lot of really good things all season long. I think he would agree entirely with my assessment of our team, and our quarterback has to play well in those situations for us to have a chance to win against good teams."

On first and second downs, Orton was all-pro caliber: 29-of-42 for 398 yards, one touchdown and no interceptions for a 107.0 passer rating.

But on third and fourth downs, Orton was 8-of-15 for 78 yards, no touchdowns and a pick. And he was only 4-of-13 in the red zone.



Read more: Orton's great stats can be misleading, McDaniels says - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16190952#ixzz10rMRWQtD

Based on history, Orton will be traded in the offseason. The last Bronco to have a record day against the Colts got traded in the offseason.

Dagmar
09-28-2010, 05:37 PM
based on history, orton will be traded in the offseason. The last bronco to have a record day and lose against the colts got traded in the offseason.

:d

Bob's your Information Minister
09-28-2010, 05:37 PM
You guys are turning into Chiefs fans.

Remember when we used to crow about stats during the Vermeil era?

Hamrob
09-28-2010, 06:17 PM
Sure, this is exactly what many of have been saying about Orton all along.

That being said...I would never have beleived he would make that throw to Lloyd (60yds on a line) for a TD. Orton has certainly improved year over year in my book.

I think McD was fair in his commentary about Orton...but, how about looking himself in the mirror in terms of his play calling down there in the Redzone. He was calling the same damn plays over and over. Fade to Gaffney twice in a row etc.

McD needs to step it up himself!

Kaylore
09-28-2010, 06:19 PM
Elite passers average 8 yards per pass play.

Bob's your Information Minister
09-28-2010, 06:32 PM
Elite passers average 8 yards per pass play.

Vick is an elite passer, got it.

baja
09-28-2010, 06:33 PM
This article is exactly why Jay Cutler was traded. Josh pulls no punches and what he said was stating the obvious. I highly suspect Kyle would readily & whole heartedly agree with everything Josh said and work twice as hard to correct the problems where Cutler would likely have a shiit fit. Thank God Josh has the nuts to follow through on his convictions and Pat Bowlen is wise enough to allow him to do it. We would never have been a good team with Jay Cutler and you will see as the season wears on Chicago and Cutler will fade.