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View Full Version : Rumor: Richard Quinn might get cut


Kaylore
09-28-2010, 12:36 PM
This is just something I heard and may or may not come true based on if he can practice better and improve. Apparently his mistakes are becoming enough of a problem to keep him inactive last game and he may be cut mid season if he doesn't start to play more disciplined. Again, this is no sure thing and if things get better it will be a non issue. Don't shoot the messenger.

Killericon
09-28-2010, 12:42 PM
While I am not pleased, and was pissed about the pick at the time, I will give credit to McDaniels for giving up on his failed attempts, and not letting people linger just because of their status as high draft picks.

Dagmar
09-28-2010, 12:43 PM
Oh lord. McDaniels won't admit his mistakes though.

Kaylore
09-28-2010, 12:43 PM
Well this isn't a done deal. It's a "on notice" type of thing. Hopefully he responds.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-28-2010, 12:45 PM
http://www.robl.w1.com/Pix/C010336.jpg

All better? Wipe your vag, Baja.

rbackfactory80
09-28-2010, 12:46 PM
Who's next, Tebow?

Beantown Bronco
09-28-2010, 12:47 PM
McD is finally getting rid of the last of the young, probowl talent on the roster with this move.

Zoobie
09-28-2010, 12:47 PM
I'm glad Josh is willing to cut ties with his mistakes, however that draft class is not looking so hot. Robert Ayers is about the only pick i'd say is working out right now. I'm pulling for Knowshon, but he doesn't look worthy of such a high pick thus far.

baja
09-28-2010, 12:48 PM
So much for his first draft LOL

Dagmar
09-28-2010, 12:48 PM
Could that light rail pic be a bit bigger?

I wouldn't be surprised if he was cut if you draft a player to develop him and he seems to regress in season 2 instead of progress, cut your losses.

Rabb
09-28-2010, 12:49 PM
live and learn, this last year will prove to make up for it and I am sure next year will be even better

baja
09-28-2010, 12:50 PM
I neg reped him (Thoughtless pic post) and everyone should.

Rabb
09-28-2010, 12:50 PM
Could that light rail pic be a bit bigger?

yeah we didn't need the exact scale pic of the damn thing

Dagmar
09-28-2010, 12:51 PM
So much for his first draft LOL

Ayers, Moreno and McBath are still good picks. 2010 was definitely a vast improvement.

Rulon Velvet Jones
09-28-2010, 12:51 PM
Regardless of where someone was drafted, if they can't play then it's time to bail. But they should at least try to pawn him off for another piece or a pick. Cutting him outright wouldn't serve much of a purpose.

Br0nc0Buster
09-28-2010, 12:51 PM
I'm glad Josh is willing to cut ties with his mistakes, however that draft class is not looking so hot. Robert Ayers is about the only pick i'd say is working out right now. I'm pulling for Knowshon, but he doesn't look worthy of such a high pick thus far.

McBath?

Denver724
09-28-2010, 12:53 PM
Ayers, Moreno and McBath are still good picks. 2010 was definitely a vast improvement.

I disagree. Moreno and Ayers have not shown me anything. They may eventually, but I am having doubts. I think this whole draft was a bust.

Rabb
09-28-2010, 12:53 PM
I also wouldn't even come close to saying Moreno wasn't worth it

all he did was lead all rookie running backs in yards and put together a solid year

aside from this past week, he has been in there even dinged up...is everyone expecting TD or nothing anymore?

I think he is arguably the most versatile all around back we have had in years around here

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-28-2010, 12:53 PM
Jesus, you guys are ****ing nancies. Sorry the pic is a little big. Didn't realize it would so offend your delicate sensibilities.

DBroncos4life
09-28-2010, 12:54 PM
Thank god the Ravens or the Steelers didn't jump in front of us and steal this guy from us.

Br0nc0Buster
09-28-2010, 12:55 PM
I disagree. Moreno and Ayers have not shown me anything. They may eventually, but I am having doubts. I think this whole draft was a bust.

then you havent been watching the games

Doggcow
09-28-2010, 12:56 PM
Beats the shannahan philosophy

fontaine
09-28-2010, 12:57 PM
Why cut him?

There's a place we send our crappy players who are full of fail: Special Teams.

He'll be right at home there.

HILife
09-28-2010, 12:58 PM
I really didn't like nor understand that pick.

bronco militia
09-28-2010, 12:58 PM
beat it, Dick

Dagmar
09-28-2010, 12:58 PM
I disagree. Moreno and Ayers have not shown me anything. They may eventually, but I am having doubts. I think this whole draft was a bust.

Have you seen us play this year? Are you joking?

Br0nc0Buster
09-28-2010, 12:59 PM
Thank god the Ravens or the Steelers didn't jump in front of us and steal this guy from us.

keep fighting the good fight, those McDaniels bashes aint gonna post themselves

Br0nc0Buster
09-28-2010, 01:00 PM
Why cut him?

There's a place we send our crappy players who are full of fail: Special Teams.

He'll be right at home there.

so the solution is to make our special teams worse?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-28-2010, 01:01 PM
Have you seen us play this year? Are you joking?

Why would he watch the games? He's just here to rip on everything the team does. No need to watch the games for that.

TheReverend
09-28-2010, 01:01 PM
While admitting mistakes and moving on is fantastic, hopefully he's learned the lesson about selling the farm to go after players since they happen to on his index card of 20 players.

I'll still never understand how Quinn made that card. He had ZERO history of catching the ball in college. Quite frankly, he was a small, poor tackle playing TE. There's an abundance of those all over the NFL that don't require 2nd round picks.

Rabb
09-28-2010, 01:03 PM
I disagree. Moreno and Ayers have not shown me anything. They may eventually, but I am having doubts. I think this whole draft was a bust.

I will give you last year on Ayers, but not this season. Dude has stepped up and done his job and then some. He was fantastic against the Colts in run defense and played very well overall.

8 tackles, 4 assists and 1.5 sacks so far this year

DJ and Haggan are the only other 2 LBs with more tackles, and nobody else has a full sack

Wait until he has a legitimate threat on the other side, it's going to be flat out nasty

Rulon Velvet Jones
09-28-2010, 01:03 PM
Jarvis Moss thinks this is hilarious.

DBroncos4life
09-28-2010, 01:04 PM
keep fighting the good fight, those McDaniels bashes aint gonna post themselves

I'm a ****ing Broncos fan not a McDaniels fan. I don't get why that is so hard to understand. I loved this years draft. I thought he did a very good job of moving around and grabbing players that fit our needs. I give him props when he does well and I will give him hell when he does a poor job.

SouthStndJunkie
09-28-2010, 01:04 PM
While admitting mistakes and moving on is fantastic, hopefully he's learned the lesson about selling the farm to go after players since they happen to on his index card of 20 players.

I'll still never understand how Quinn made that card. He had ZERO history of catching the ball in college. Quite frankly, he was a small, poor tackle playing TE. There's an abundance of those all over the NFL that don't require 2nd round picks.

I said it at the time....that kind of talent is available in the 5th through 7th rounds of the draft.....using a 2nd round pick on a blocking TE is foolish.

baja
09-28-2010, 01:05 PM
Ayers, Moreno and McBath are still good picks. 2010 was definitely a vast improvement.

True and Quinn still might wake upn

Popps
09-28-2010, 01:06 PM
While admitting mistakes and moving on is fantastic, hopefully he's learned the lesson about selling the farm to go after players since they happen to on his index card of 20 players.

I'll still never understand how Quinn made that card. He had ZERO history of catching the ball in college. Quite frankly, he was a small, poor tackle playing TE. There's an abundance of those all over the NFL that don't require 2nd round picks.

Quinn was the last pick of the 2nd round, for clarity. One pick later, and he's a 3rd rounder.

As for McDaniels' "index cards," he and the staff narrowed down their choices to a smaller sample size due to having less time to prepare. Seems logical enough.

Looks like at this point, a few picks are going to work out, and a few won't.
Pretty typical of an NFL draft.

I mean, not every draft pick can be a Travis McGriff or a Willie Middlebrooks.

HILife
09-28-2010, 01:10 PM
Ayers, Moreno and McBath are still good picks. 2010 was definitely a vast improvement.


Round 1:
(12) Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia
(haven't decided)

(18) Robert Ayers DE/LB Tennessee
(looking good in second year)


Round 2:
(37) Alphonso Smith CB Wake Forest
(fail)


(48) Darcel McBath S Texas Tech
(looking pretty good)

(64) Richard Quinn TE North Carolina (Traded two 3rd round picks in 09' to Pittsburgh)
(fail)

Round 3:
(79) Traded to Pittsburgh for TE Richard Quinn
(84) Traded to Pittsburgh for TE Richard Quinn

Round 4:
(114) David Bruton FS Notre Dame
Someone update me. How's he doing?

(132) Seth Olsen OG Iowa (from Pittsburgh)
fail

Round 5:
(141) Kenny McKinley WR South Carolina
RIP

(149) Traded to Baltimore Ravens


Round 6:
(174) Tom Brandstater QB Fresno State
fail

(185) Traded to Philadelphia

Round 7:
(225) Blake Schleuter C Texas Christian
fail

(235) Traded pick Detroit

2009 isn't looking very good.

DBroncos4life
09-28-2010, 01:10 PM
Quinn was the last pick of the 2nd round, for clarity. One pick later, and he's a 3rd rounder.

As for McDaniels' "index cards," he and the staff narrowed down their choices to a smaller sample size due to having less time to prepare. Seems logical enough.

Looks like at this point, a few picks are going to work out, and a few won't.
Pretty typical of an NFL draft.

I mean, not every draft pick can be a Travis McGriff or a Willie Middlebrooks.

Yeah I would have done something crazy like not fire the scouting department months before the draft.

PRBronco
09-28-2010, 01:11 PM
Ayers, Moreno and McBath are still good picks. 2010 was definitely a vast improvement.

I would also go so far as to call David Bruton a special teams stud.

Dagmar
09-28-2010, 01:12 PM
Round 1:
(12) Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia
(haven't decided)

(18) Robert Ayers DE/LB Tennessee
(looking good in second year)


Round 2:
(37) Alphonso Smith CB Wake Forest
(fail)


(48) Darcel McBath S Texas Tech
(looking pretty good)

(64) Richard Quinn TE North Carolina (Traded two 3rd round picks in 09' to Pittsburgh)
(fail)

Round 3:
(79) Traded to Pittsburgh for TE Richard Quinn
(84) Traded to Pittsburgh for TE Richard Quinn

Round 4:
(114) David Bruton FS Notre Dame
Someone update me. How's he doing?

(132) Seth Olsen OG Iowa (from Pittsburgh)
fail

Round 5:
(141) Kenny McKinley WR South Carolina
RIP

(149) Traded to Baltimore Ravens


Round 6:
(174) Tom Brandstater QB Fresno State
fail

(185) Traded to Philadelphia

Round 7:
(225) Blake Schleuter C Texas Christian
fail

(235) Traded pick Detroit

2009 isn't looking very good.

Which is what I said.

cousinal11
09-28-2010, 01:13 PM
While admitting mistakes and moving on is fantastic, hopefully he's learned the lesson about selling the farm to go after players since they happen to on his index card of 20 players.

I'll still never understand how Quinn made that card. He had ZERO history of catching the ball in college. Quite frankly, he was a small, poor tackle playing TE. There's an abundance of those all over the NFL that don't require 2nd round picks.

I watched pretty much every game his senior year at UNC and had no idea who he was when we selected him.???

Dedhed
09-28-2010, 01:13 PM
While I am not pleased, and was pissed about the pick at the time, I will give credit to McDaniels for giving up on his failed attempts, and not letting people linger just because of their status as high draft picks.

That is a testament to his belief in his philosophy regarding competition. He doesn't just give it lip service. He keeps, and plays, the players who win their position battles and gets rid of those who don't.

Doesn't matter where they were drafted or who they are, if they're outplayed they're gone. Why people don't like that philosophy is beyond me.

Clearly they value certain individuals over the team, or think they're in a better position to judge talent than the coach of the team. Either way it's inane.

worm
09-28-2010, 01:13 PM
Quinn was the last pick of the 2nd round, for clarity. One pick later, and he's a 3rd rounder.

As for McDaniels' "index cards," he and the staff narrowed down their choices to a smaller sample size due to having less time to prepare. Seems logical enough.

Looks like at this point, a few picks are going to work out, and a few won't.
Pretty typical of an NFL draft.

I mean, not every draft pick can be a Travis McGriff or a Willie Middlebrooks.

Dude, it was a bad pick. I am sure Josh would take it back if he could. Why even try and spin or marginalize it?

Don't worry, they won't come take your Mcdaniels fathead if you critique a Josh move.

55CrushEm
09-28-2010, 01:14 PM
While admitting mistakes and moving on is fantastic, hopefully he's learned the lesson about selling the farm to go after players since they happen to on his index card of 20 players.

I'll still never understand how Quinn made that card. He had ZERO history of catching the ball in college. Quite frankly, he was a small, poor tackle playing TE. There's an abundance of those all over the NFL that don't require 2nd round picks.

Not as bad as drafting WIDE RECEIVERS that can't catch in the 2nd round though, right?

Cough, cough....Darius Watts....cough, cough...

Or hell, drafting running backs that can't run in the 2nd round........cough, Tatum Bell

BigPlayShay
09-28-2010, 01:15 PM
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2pPCEXq4mgk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2pPCEXq4mgk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Dedhed
09-28-2010, 01:16 PM
Yeah I would have done something crazy like not fire the scouting department months before the draft.
A scouting staff that has no idea what type of player you're looking for is about as useful as tits on a bull.

Br0nc0Buster
09-28-2010, 01:17 PM
09 draft class was a hefty price for hopefully learning how to better maximize value

if Ayers can continue his progression and Moreno can stay healthy, I think we are still looking at 2 very good players for our team
also McBath in limited action has done good things and looks good
Bruton is a very good special teams player

so all is not lost

Broncoman13
09-28-2010, 01:19 PM
Jesus, you guys are ****ing nancies. Sorry the pic is a little big. Didn't realize it would so offend your delicate sensibilities.

Dis!!!

55CrushEm
09-28-2010, 01:19 PM
if Ayers can continue his progression and Moreno can stay healthy, I think we are still looking at 2 very good players for our team
also McBath in limited action has done good things and looks good
Bruton is a very good special teams player

so all is not lost

Take that back! Rational thought is not allowed here!

DBroncos4life
09-28-2010, 01:20 PM
A scouting staff that has no idea what type of player you're looking for is about as useful as boobies on a bull.

Yeah I know right I mean with that scouting staff odds are we would have ended up drafting a bunch of players that would just end up being cut or something.

Broncoman13
09-28-2010, 01:20 PM
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hahahahaha! That is priceless. Very nice work ;D

Still laughing my ass off.

PRBronco
09-28-2010, 01:23 PM
Also, Quinn would be the fifth 2nd rounder from 2009 cut (or traded, in the case of phonz) the next year, wtf's with that? I dont' recall second rounders being given up on like that ever before.

Popps
09-28-2010, 01:23 PM
Yeah I would have done something crazy like not fire the scouting department months before the draft.

I know, right? We could have had the next Tim Crowder.

Stupid McStinkyPants.

Popps
09-28-2010, 01:24 PM
Dude, it was a bad pick. I am sure Josh would take it back if he could. Why even try and spin or marginalize it?


Hmmm...

"Some picks work out, some don't."

I wonder at what point in that sentence you became so confused....

Br0nc0Buster
09-28-2010, 01:24 PM
im glad the picture size was reduced, I was very offended

fontaine
09-28-2010, 01:25 PM
so the solution is to make our special teams worse?

That's not possible, it's among the worst right now.
Ha!

Steve Sewell
09-28-2010, 01:26 PM
could that light rail pic be a bit bigger?

I wouldn't be surprised if he was cut if you draft a player to develop him and he seems to regress in season 2 instead of progress, cut your losses.

27222

Dedhed
09-28-2010, 01:27 PM
Not as bad as drafting WIDE RECEIVERS that can't catch in the 2nd round though, right?

Cough, cough....Darius Watts....cough, cough...

Or hell, drafting running backs that can't run in the 2nd round........cough, Tatum Bell

Cough, Marcus Nash, Cough, Willie Middlebrooks, cough, Deltha O'neil, Cough, Ashley Lelie, cough, tory james, cough, Eric Brown, cough, Terry Pierce, cough, Paul Toviessi, cough, George Foster, cough, Tim Crowder, cough, Jarvis Moss, cough, Montae Reagor, cough, Lennie Friedman

DBroncos4life
09-28-2010, 01:27 PM
I know, right? We could have had the next Tim Crowder.

Stupid McStinkyPants.

Yeah it would sure suck to have a guy around that could sack the QB, or dress up for a game.

worm
09-28-2010, 01:27 PM
Hmmm...

"Some picks work out, some don't."

I wonder at what point in that sentence you became so confused....

Say it with me Popps. "It was a bad pick."

There. Now let it go and move forward. No need to compare it to equally bad Shanny picks....or defend it being 'almost' a 3rd.

Looks like Josh is about to move on. I bet you can to!

_Oro_
09-28-2010, 01:28 PM
I like Moreno, Ayers, McBath, and Bruton. Those are 4 quality guys and we're still in year 2. If Ayers continues to progress as he is though, we won't care about who else we drafted that year.

fontaine
09-28-2010, 01:30 PM
Oh I had forgotten. McDaniels traded two thirds for Quinn?

No wonder he's pissed at Quinn!

ROFL!

HILife
09-28-2010, 01:31 PM
Which is what I said.

I know. I just expanded on it.

55CrushEm
09-28-2010, 01:32 PM
Cough, Marcus Nash, Cough, Willie Middlebrooks, cough, Deltha O'neil, Cough, Ashley Lelie, cough, tory james, cough, Eric Brown, cough, Terry Pierce, cough, Paul Toviessi, cough, George Foster, cough, Tim Crowder, cough, Jarvis Moss, cough, Montae Reagor, cough, Lennie Friedman

Ha!

Yeah, I know. I didn't want to pile on, though.

And again, I give McD a mulligan on the first draft anyway....cause as we all know, he only had like a month or so to prepare. I.e. no full evaluation process of what he already had, and therefore not sure what he needed.

Rulon Velvet Jones
09-28-2010, 01:33 PM
Getting 4 guys out of 10 that can hang and play in the NFL after 1 year is pretty alright if you ask me.

cmhargrove
09-28-2010, 01:33 PM
What's Carswell doing these days?

Br0nc0Buster
09-28-2010, 01:34 PM
Oh I had forgotten. McDaniels traded two thirds for Quinn?

No wonder he's pissed at Quinn!

ROFL!

well technically it was two 3rds for a 2nd and a 4th, those picks being used on Quinn and Seth Olsen, but I guess the result is still the same

TheProfessor
09-28-2010, 01:37 PM
Round 1:
(12) Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia (haven't decided)

(18) Robert Ayers DE/LB Tennessee (looking good in second year)


Round 2:
(37) Alphonso Smith CB Wake Forest (fail)


(48) Darcel McBath S Texas Tech (looking pretty good)

(64) Richard Quinn TE North Carolina (Traded two 3rd round picks in 09' to Pittsburgh) (fail)

Round 3:
(79) Traded to Pittsburgh for TE Richard Quinn
(84) Traded to Pittsburgh for TE Richard Quinn

Round 4:
(114) David Bruton FS Notre Dame Someone update me. How's he doing?

(132) Seth Olsen OG Iowa (from Pittsburgh) fail

Round 5:
(141) Kenny McKinley WR South Carolina RIP

(149) Traded to Baltimore Ravens


Round 6:
(174) Tom Brandstater QB Fresno State fail

(185) Traded to Philadelphia

Round 7:
(225) Blake Schleuter C Texas Christian fail

(235) Traded pick Detroit


Wow that's ugly, atleast the 1st rounders are lookingh good so far.

Los Broncos
09-28-2010, 01:38 PM
What's Carswell doing these days?

Carswell was signed by the Orlando Predators of the Arena Football League in January 2007.[1] However, he was waived the next month.[

Carswell, whose nickname is "House"[5], and his wife, Tamara, reside in Aurora, Colorado, with their daughters, Ashley and Aaron.[

snowspot66
09-28-2010, 01:39 PM
Getting 4 guys out of 10 that can hang and play in the NFL after 1 year is pretty alright if you ask me.

I'll take two starters and a couple of contributors every draft any day of the week.

Popps
09-28-2010, 01:41 PM
Yeah it would sure suck to have a guy around that could sack the QB, or dress up for a game.

Like Crowder is doing for us?

****... wait... never mind...

Tombstone RJ
09-28-2010, 01:42 PM
Round 1:
(12) Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia
(haven't decided)

(18) Robert Ayers DE/LB Tennessee
(looking good in second year)


Round 2:
(37) Alphonso Smith CB Wake Forest
(fail)


(48) Darcel McBath S Texas Tech
(looking pretty good)

(64) Richard Quinn TE North Carolina (Traded two 3rd round picks in 09' to Pittsburgh)
(fail)

Round 3:
(79) Traded to Pittsburgh for TE Richard Quinn
(84) Traded to Pittsburgh for TE Richard Quinn

Round 4:
(114) David Bruton FS Notre Dame
Someone update me. How's he doing?

(132) Seth Olsen OG Iowa (from Pittsburgh)
fail

Round 5:
(141) Kenny McKinley WR South Carolina
RIP

(149) Traded to Baltimore Ravens


Round 6:
(174) Tom Brandstater QB Fresno State
fail

(185) Traded to Philadelphia

Round 7:
(225) Blake Schleuter C Texas Christian
fail

(235) Traded pick Detroit

2009 isn't looking very good.


I agree. Quinn and Phonz are really disappointments being that McD traded away picks for these two players. fail and fail again...

Old Dude
09-28-2010, 01:42 PM
Wouldn't shock me if he was cut.

DBroncos4life
09-28-2010, 01:43 PM
Like Crowder is doing for us?

****... wait... never mind...

Sorry your bf cut the wrong player...

Tombstone RJ
09-28-2010, 01:44 PM
I wonder if McD is gonna copy Shanahan and draft badly in years that end in an odd number, but have decent drafts in years that end in an even number...

SouthStndJunkie
09-28-2010, 01:45 PM
I'll take two starters and a couple of contributors every draft any day of the week.

In most drafts....but we had a lot of picks coming into the 2009 draft.

HILife
09-28-2010, 01:46 PM
I wonder if McD is gonna copy Shanahan and draft badly in years that end in an odd number, but have decent drafts in years that end in an even number...

Remind me again, when did Shanahan have a decent draft?

TheProfessor
09-28-2010, 01:47 PM
Sorry your bf cut the wrong player...

Believe it or not crowder has 5.5 sacks since being cut and going to tampa

TheProfessor
09-28-2010, 01:48 PM
Remind me again, when did Shanahan have a decent draft?

As bad as shanny was, 2006 was one of the great drafts in broncos history

bowtown
09-28-2010, 01:48 PM
It drives me totally crazy that in a draft where they--by their own admission--were under prepared, they would go out and do the kind of reckless trading and reaching that they did for Fonz and Quinn.

HILife
09-28-2010, 01:50 PM
Believe it or not crowder has 5.5 sacks since being cut and going to tampa

5.5 in one and a 1/4 years.....Must be some sort of accident.

baja
09-28-2010, 01:50 PM
It drives me totally crazy that in a draft where they--by their own admission--were under prepared, they would go out and do the kind of reckless trading and reaching that they did for Fonz and Quinn.

Ever think that might not be on Josh

HILife
09-28-2010, 01:51 PM
As bad as shanny was, 2006 was one of the great drafts in broncos history

Oh right. For some reason I thought that was 2007.

bowtown
09-28-2010, 01:51 PM
Ever think that might not be on Josh

Yes, that's why I said "they."

Popps
09-28-2010, 01:52 PM
Sorry your bf cut the wrong player...

Yea, weird... because we never made any personnel mistakes before he was here...

http://www.medcenfoundation.org/images/George-Foster.jpg

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2010/0823/20100823__SP_BRONCOS_DRAFT_JL208~p1_300.jpg

Tombstone RJ
09-28-2010, 01:52 PM
Remind me again, when did Shanahan have a decent draft?

It "seemed" like he drafted better in the even years. It has been argued that his two best drafts were in 2006 & 2008. Sandwich between those two drafts was 2007 and um yah, you get the point...

HILife
09-28-2010, 01:53 PM
Yea, weird... because we never made any personnel mistakes before he was here...

http://sportpics.photoshelter.com/img/pixel.gif


http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2010/0823/20100823__SP_BRONCOS_DRAFT_JL208~p1_300.jpg

FBI's Most Wanted HoF

TheProfessor
09-28-2010, 01:54 PM
5.5 in one and a 1/4 years.....Must be some sort of accident.

The entire crowder thing was strange. In camp i kept reading that he was looking good then all of a sudden he was demoted to 3rd string and cut a week later.

Now he seems to have found a home as a solid rotation player for tampa.

Go figure...

underrated29
09-28-2010, 01:58 PM
The entire crowder thing was strange. In camp i kept reading that he was looking good then all of a sudden he was demoted to 3rd string and cut a week later.

Now he seems to have found a home as a solid rotation player for tampa.

Go figure...



I was one of those who was pimping him in camp. I thought he looked like one of the best there. And IMO was the only one consistently getting pressure......I even made a thread about regrets we were going to have and us keeping him over moss was one of them.....Still unsure about moss, but tim imo was doing really well. And he does not seem to be doing to bad in tampa either.

HILife
09-28-2010, 01:58 PM
It "seemed" like he drafted better in the even years. It has been argued that his two best drafts were in 2006 & 2008. Sandwich between those two drafts was 2007 and um yah, you get the point...

I stop believing in Shanny right around the Maurice Clarett pick. Wonder what he's up to these days.

TheProfessor
09-28-2010, 02:01 PM
I was one of those who was pimping him in camp. I thought he looked like one of the best there. And IMO was the only one consistently getting pressure......I even made a thread about regrets we were going to have and us keeping him over moss was one of them.....Still unsure about moss, but tim imo was doing really well. And he does not seem to be doing to bad in tampa either.

You weren't the only one, I read on several message boards that he was looking good. Then I saw it for myself at camp, and he was looking good.

Then about a week later everything changed. Obviously something else was going on behind the scenes.

TheReverend
09-28-2010, 02:02 PM
Quinn was the last pick of the 2nd round, for clarity. One pick later, and he's a 3rd rounder.

As for McDaniels' "index cards," he and the staff narrowed down their choices to a smaller sample size due to having less time to prepare. Seems logical enough.

Looks like at this point, a few picks are going to work out, and a few won't.
Pretty typical of an NFL draft.

I mean, not every draft pick can be a Travis McGriff or a Willie Middlebrooks.

This is such an ignorant post from start to finish.

1. So now we're spotting him into the third round even though he was taken in the second? I notice you happen to neglect the fact that he cost the 79 and 84 overall selections, but hey, that would be counter productive to your non-existent point, wouldn't it?

2. The index cards were so logical he admitted they were under-prepared and drastically changed the process this year.

Good work though, Popps.

ColoradoDarin
09-28-2010, 02:10 PM
This is such an ignorant post from start to finish.

1. So now we're spotting him into the third round even though he was taken in the second? I notice you happen to neglect the fact that he cost the 79 and 84 overall selections, but hey, that would be counter productive to your non-existent point, wouldn't it?

2. The index cards were so logical he admitted they were under-prepared and drastically changed the process this year.

Good work though, Popps.

As pointed out above Rev, we got a 4th back along with the 2nd we used on Quinn (even if it was pissed away too)

tsiguy96
09-28-2010, 02:13 PM
As pointed out above Rev, we got a 4th back along with the 2nd we used on Quinn (even if it was pissed away too)

david bruton. richard quinn essentially cost a 3rd round pick.

footstepsfrom#27
09-28-2010, 02:14 PM
Try him at OLB. He's big enough, probably fast enough, and obviously can't play TE in the NFL so who knows...maybe a position switch would work. If Larsen can do it...

ColoradoDarin
09-28-2010, 02:16 PM
david bruton. richard quinn essentially cost a 3rd round pick.

Was it Bruton? I thought it was Olsen?

Popps
09-28-2010, 02:20 PM
This is such an ignorant post from start to finish.

Yea, well... let me down a few bottles of scotch and re-post it, huh brother?


1. So now we're spotting him into the third round even though he was taken in the second? .

Never said that. Though, there's probably a wee-bit of difference between the first and last pick in the 2nd round... think?


2. The index cards were so logical he admitted they were under-prepared and drastically changed the process this year..

Right, and he made it clear that they worked on a shortened time frame, which was the primary cause of the problem.

Nice to hear that he's cool reworking a system that wasn't perfect, though.



Anyway, stay angry, brother. Have a shot. It's 5:00 pm somewhere, right?

TheReverend
09-28-2010, 02:26 PM
Yea, well... let me down a few bottles of scotch and re-post it, huh brother?

Adorable. Mad that it was 100% accurate and addressed vs Seattle?

Never said that. Though, there's probably a wee-bit of difference between the first and last pick in the 2nd round... think?

Who said there isn't a difference? Richard Quinn costs us a good chunk... as did Alphonso. Strangely, these were two "must have" players that were aggressively pursued through trades. Pretend it's a non-issue all you want, but it certainly is.

Right, and he made it clear that they worked on a shortened time frame, which was the primary cause of the problem.

Nice to hear that he's cool reworking a system that wasn't perfect, though.

That shortened time frame was because of what, again?

Anyway, stay angry, brother. Have a shot. It's 5:00 pm somewhere, right?

So now, because I drank at a football game three weeks ago, I'm an alcoholic? Stay classy popps... and keep up that technique of drastically changing the subject because you're stupid and get owned by everyone.

tsiguy96
09-28-2010, 02:29 PM
yea it was seth olsen, we got bruton with an earlier 4th. either way, quinn was a bad pick, no question.

Popps
09-28-2010, 02:31 PM
Adorable. Bla bla bla bla... I'm angry... bla bla.... pay attention to me.... look at my pictures....

You generally lose your novelty after one post. No difference in this case.

TheReverend
09-28-2010, 02:35 PM
You generally lose your novelty after one post. No difference in this case.

Classic Popps on display.

Tell us again about how Shanahan should get fired for not building from the DL back and because our running game wasn't strong enough?

Hilarious!

You have no personal conviction. You're a waffler. And a sad one at that.

footstepsfrom#27
09-28-2010, 02:37 PM
Never said that. Though, there's probably a wee-bit of difference between the first and last pick in the 2nd round... think?
Depends...it looks like the 37th and 64th pick are turning out about the same, so you never know.

Popps
09-28-2010, 02:40 PM
Depends...it looks like the 37th and 64th pick are turning out about the same, so you never know.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. You never do know, which is sort of the point.

Look, bummer he's not working out as planned. Some have, some haven't. That's the NFL draft for you.

I actually loved the pick, in theory. But, it's not working out so far.

I've grown used to that, as we've been a sub-par drafting team over the last decade. So, maybe I just don't freak out about EVERY pick not panning out, as some seem to around here.

We'll hit some and miss some. Over a few years, let's look at the net result of drafting and FA pick-ups and see what we have.

To me, these two drafts are looking pretty solid, overall. Time will tell.

Rabb
09-28-2010, 02:41 PM
I am pretty sure everyone, no matter the side of the McD fence, can agree he didn't have the greatest overall first draft for a number of reasons.

The measuring stick is what he does going forward, and so far I think they did very well this year and I look forward to next year even more.

DBroncos4life
09-28-2010, 02:48 PM
Yea, weird... because we never made any personnel mistakes before he was here...

http://www.medcenfoundation.org/images/George-Foster.jpg

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2010/0823/20100823__SP_BRONCOS_DRAFT_JL208~p1_300.jpg

LOL you are something else. Like I have any problem saying Shanahan made some piss poor picks during his time here. Just like I have no problem McD has made some nice picks in his time here. It's YOU that have the problem admitting that McD makes mistakes period.

Popps
09-28-2010, 02:52 PM
that have the problem admitting that McD makes mistakes period.

Really?

I said you hit some and miss some.

McD is no exception to that rule. Maybe you're just reading what you want to read.

TheReverend
09-28-2010, 02:52 PM
LOL you are something else. Like I have any problem saying Shanahan made some piss poor picks during his time here. Just like I have no problem McD has made some nice picks in his time here. It's YOU that have the problem admitting that McD makes mistakes period.

Na dude.

When one coach does something, "That's not how you build a professional football team" and he should be fired. When the next coach does the same thing, he needs to make a thread that he's proud of this team.

DBroncos4life
09-28-2010, 02:58 PM
Really?

I said you hit some and miss some.

McD is no exception to that rule. Maybe you're just reading what you want to read.

That's why you are always talking about Shanahan's missed draft picks. Your very first post in this thread did just that.....

Quinn was the last pick of the 2nd round, for clarity. One pick later, and he's a 3rd rounder.

As for McDaniels' "index cards," he and the staff narrowed down their choices to a smaller sample size due to having less time to prepare. Seems logical enough.

Looks like at this point, a few picks are going to work out, and a few won't.
Pretty typical of an NFL draft.

I mean, not every draft pick can be a Travis McGriff or a Willie Middlebrooks.

You couldn't just leave it about the topic you had to throw a jab in about our former coaching staff.

Saying every team has hits and misses is hardly doing this poor move justice and you know it. If it had been Mike that traded for Smith and Quinn you would be all over his ass and there isn't a poster on this board that doesn't understand that.

Popps
09-28-2010, 03:02 PM
That's why you are always talking about Shanahan's missed draft picks. Your very first post in this thread did just that......

A little comic relief for those who think McDaniels is the first guy in history to pick a guy that didn't work out.


You couldn't just leave it about the topic you had to throw a jab in about our former coaching staff.

Saying every team has hits and misses is hardly doing this poor move justice and you know it. If it had been Mike that traded for Smith and Quinn you would be all over his ass and there isn't a poster on this board that doesn't understand that.

I spent more time defending Shanahan on this board than... arguably anyone. Literally... and you know that. If you don't, well... you just didn't pay attention.

DBroncos4life
09-28-2010, 03:11 PM
A little comic relief for those who think McDaniels is the first guy in history to pick a guy that didn't work out.



I spent more time defending Shanahan on this board than... arguably anyone. Literally... and you know that. If you don't, well... you just didn't pay attention.

We are all aware of Mike's poor draft history, just like we all understand that in the end it caused him (along with other things to get him fired). Still just because he failed at drafting doesn't mean the new staff gets a pass. You know I was very vocal about how the first draft was handled. The second draft was amazing and I have said this as well. What a year of being prepared will do for a staff.

I know how you are popps, I understand you are a very good fan. What we seem to differ on is McD. I see the good he does and I see the bad as well.
I understand that I'm more vocal about the negatives just like you are more positives in the end we both want the same things W's for the Broncos.
I love the Broncos, not the players and certainly not the coaching staff. They come and go, so I don't get to caught up in them.

Popps
09-28-2010, 03:16 PM
We are all aware of Mike's poor draft history, just like we all understand that in the end it caused him (along with other things to get him fired). Still just because he failed at drafting doesn't mean the new staff gets a pass. You know I was very vocal about how the first draft was handled. The second draft was amazing and I have said this as well. What a year of being prepared will do for a staff.

I know how you are popps, I understand you are a very good fan. What we seem to differ on is McD. I see the good he does and I see the bad as well.
I understand that I'm more vocal about the negatives just like you are more positives in the end we both want the same things W's for the Broncos.
I love the Broncos, not the players and certainly not the coaching staff. They come and go, so I don't get to caught up in them.

If you know "how I am,".... then you know damned well that I'll be all over McDaniels' ass if this team doesn't show improvement in a reasonable amount of time.

I was actually expecting a wild card appearance this season before the injury troubles. So, it's not like he's getting a pass. He's made some mistakes. I just don't see a disproportionate amount of them... yet.

He's also done some good things.

It's way too early to tell. I believe in his system and style of coaching/team-building. But, if we're floundering around .500 in a couple of years, I'll lose my patience with him... for sure.

Until then, I'm going to have some patience.

footstepsfrom#27
09-28-2010, 03:19 PM
Exactly. You never do know, which is sort of the point.
Actually I think you missed my point.

colonelbeef
09-28-2010, 03:29 PM
Yea, well... let me down a few bottles of scotch and re-post it, huh brother?



Never said that. Though, there's probably a wee-bit of difference between the first and last pick in the 2nd round... think?



Right, and he made it clear that they worked on a shortened time frame, which was the primary cause of the problem.

Nice to hear that he's cool reworking a system that wasn't perfect, though.



Anyway, stay angry, brother. Have a shot. It's 5:00 pm somewhere, right?


An adult man wrote this post?

How embarrassing.

Cool Breeze
09-28-2010, 03:29 PM
then you havent been watching the games

This!:strong:

Popps
09-28-2010, 03:49 PM
Actually I think you missed my point.

No, no... I got it perfectly well.... and it was a perfect analogy as to why the NFL draft is so unpredictable.

footstepsfrom#27
09-28-2010, 03:54 PM
No, no... I got it perfectly well.... and it was a perfect analogy as to why the NFL draft is so unpredictable.
I should have hit the sarcasm button. You were stressing that there's a significant difference between the players near the top of round 2 versus the last guy taken. Phonz was taken at 37...Quinn 27 picks later.

Both have sucked...hence my point was more related to McD stinkin' up both picks.

Having said that...it's time to move on from all this.

Tombstone RJ
09-28-2010, 03:59 PM
An adult man wrote this post?

How embarrassing.

Yah well whiskey makes some frisky, and it makes other's post briskly. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Popps
09-28-2010, 04:02 PM
I should have hit the sarcasm button. You were stressing that there's a significant difference between the players near the top of round 2 versus the last guy taken. Phonz was taken at 37...Quinn 27 picks later.

Dude, I honestly can't tell if you're joking at this point.

I GOT it.

Are you serious? What wasn't to get?

TDmvp
09-28-2010, 04:04 PM
http://www.failish.com/pictures/2009/03/failish-mcdonalds-shamrock-shake-mcfail.jpg


Quinn is Josh Mishandles's Clarett

At least Shanny only blew a 3rd for a head case who in college everyone thought was a god.

Where Josh gives up a 2nd for someone I've never heard of before we drafted or seen one positive thing said about him in the media and barley even defended here.

Heck if you google him all you find is a story about him beating up women.
I mean if we tolerate that stuff on this team we should have kept Marshall.


:spit:
:poke::poke::poke::stirstir::stirstir::stirstir:


:clown:
I hadn't went on a anti Josh rant in awhile and with all the division here of late with the josh anti josh , jay anti jay crowds I figured O why not lets poke the hornets nest heheh

WolfpackGuy
09-28-2010, 04:16 PM
Awesome trade for Olsen and Quinn.

Definitely worth Mike Wallace.

WABronco
09-28-2010, 04:22 PM
Well, ya it's nice to admit mistakes and not bow to draft status but...still ****ing stupid that we're making those kinds of mistakes. Round 2 is not round 7.

Dagmar
09-28-2010, 04:30 PM
Awesome trade for Olsen and Quinn.

Definitely worth Mike Wallace.
:spit:
Ed Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.

This post is pathetic of course.
Ha!

Dedhed
09-28-2010, 04:30 PM
Quinn is Josh Mishandles's Clarett

um.. okay.

Dedhed
09-28-2010, 04:31 PM
Well, ya it's nice to admit mistakes and not bow to draft status but...still ****ing stupid that we're making those kinds of mistakes. Round 2 is not round 7.

Every single coach/gm in the league makes these kind of mistakes.

WABronco
09-28-2010, 04:33 PM
Every single coach/gm in the league makes these kind of mistakes.

Some more than others.

Tombstone RJ
09-28-2010, 04:33 PM
Every single coach/gm in the league makes these kind of mistakes.

No way! You mean that Charlie Casserly drafted Heath Shuler and failed? No way!

I could have sworn Casserly knew his stuff. Imagine that...

manchambo
09-28-2010, 04:42 PM
Man, you really have to be looking for something nice to say about the guy to look at this and say "I'm glad to see him admit his mistakes."

And there's something fundamentally different here than just missing on a pick. When a coach takes a player who everyone generally agrees should go in that general area (at least in the round you take him in) and the pick misses, that's one thing--happens to everyone (though with Shanahan in the last few years it seemed to happen every time with defenders).

But when you decide that everyone else in the entire world is stupid and you're smart, and you take someone in the second round when no one else thinks he should go before the 5th or so (and I'm not sure anyone thought Quinn should go there)--well--you better damn well be right.

elsid13
09-28-2010, 04:44 PM
It appear the drafting of Quinn was mistake, and what make it more evident is the fact that Gronkowski (a seventh round pick with less three week on the team) has already jumped him on the depth chart. Hopefully the front office will learn and value draft picks more then they have....

Dedhed
09-28-2010, 04:46 PM
Some more than others.

Not sure who you're referring to here.

Dedhed
09-28-2010, 04:49 PM
Hopefully the front office will learn and value draft picks more then they have....

See it's statements like this that are just moronic to me. Yes, I'm sure Quinn was chosen because the FO just didn't care about those draft picks.

Probably had nothing to do with the fact that it's impossible to tell what a player will do once he gets to the NFL.

If only the FO had cared more. Drat!

Popps
09-28-2010, 05:00 PM
And there's something fundamentally different here than just missing on a pick. When a coach takes a player who everyone generally agrees should go in that general area .

You mean... like Jamarcus Russel?

me with defenders).

But when you decide that everyone else in the entire world is stupid and you're smart, and you take someone in the second round when no one else thinks he should go before the 5th .

So, the key to drafting is... ignore your own research and read internet message boards? Got it.




No one was more willing to take gambles than Shanahan. Looks like Josh is continuing his tradition, like it or not.

elsid13
09-28-2010, 05:00 PM
See it's statements like this that are just moronic to me. Yes, I'm sure Quinn was chosen because the FO just didn't care about those draft picks.

Probably had nothing to do with the fact that it's impossible to tell what a player will do once he gets to the NFL.

If only the FO had cared more. Drat!

I'm just going to relink to what I said before and I stick to it.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2910926&postcount=81

elsid13
09-28-2010, 05:09 PM
Just to put the current draft philosophy in context. Xanders learned under Beathard

Debatable deal gets Beathard's blessing
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 04/28/2009 12:30:00 AM MDT

True to suspicions, the Broncos discussed finances before the NFL draft.

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels and general manager Brian Xanders huddled with chief operating officer Joe Ellis and owner Pat Bowlen. They talked about the draft budget. They went over their two first-round picks and how much they would cost. They talked about the two first-round picks in 2010 and how much they would cost. The result of that meeting of Broncos leaders and Bowlen's pocketbook?

"No restrictions," McDaniels said.

It wasn't finances that caused the Broncos to raise eyebrows by trading their first-round pick in 2010 to Seattle for a high second-round pick and the right to select cornerback Alphonso Smith on Saturday.

The deal was a blast from Bobby Beathard's past.

"It's really the philosophy of let's get better now," said Beathard, who built rosters in Miami, Washington and San Diego that went to seven Super Bowls and won four. In 1993, Beathard traded San Diego's No. 1 draft pick in 1994 for the right to select running back Natrone Means in the second round, right then and there. "If there's a player there you really like, it's not the gamble people think. You have to go by your evaluations, your convictions, and if the Broncos had (Smith) rated there, then, 'Don't let him go, we're going to go get another No. 1.' "

On the surface, trading the No. 1 of tomorrow for a No. 2 of today doesn't add up. And yes, the Broncos were facing the pricey commitment of paying approximately $12.5 million in guaranteed money to running back Know-shon Moreno and another $9.5 million to defensive end/linebacker Robert Ayers after selecting them in the first round.

But Bowlen did not issue an edict to McDaniels and Xanders that they must get rid of one of their first-round picks in 2010. As McDaniels said Saturday after drafting two players in the first round, "We did it this year. We would have done it next year."

That extra first-round pick, it should be noted, had been acquired 23 days earlier in the Jay Cutler trade.

The reason the Broncos dealt a first-round pick next year for a second-round pick this year was simply their desire to draft Smith. From the start of the second round, the Broncos started calling teams hoping to acquire the cornerback who some scouts compare to the late Darrent Williams because of his instincts and playmaking abilities.

Seattle, with the overall No. 37 pick in the second round, liked the idea of getting one of the Broncos' first-round draft picks next year. But no, the Seahawks would not agree to the condition the Broncos keep the better of the two picks. One pick would have been dependent on the Chicago Bears' record this season; the other pick would have been determined by the Broncos' finish.

The Seahawks insisted on taking the Broncos' pick. The Broncos didn't have time to argue, not with the clock running. To finish the deal for Smith, the Broncos agreed to surrender their own pick and kept the one connected to where the Bears finish.

"I don't think it was about finances," draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr. said. "Forget the second round. If he's the 20th-best player on your board, which Alphonso Smith could have been, then who cares? That's their argument and it's a just argument. I'm not an advocate of that. I think it's a risky proposition."

Here's the risk: If the Broncos finish, say, 5-11 this season, Seattle could have the No. 6 overall pick or so in the 2010 draft. No matter how it's explained, Broncoland will never understand how a No. 37 pick equals what turned out to be a No. 6.

But if the Broncos finish 10-6, then Seattle's extra pick would come in around No. 22 overall in 2010, or around where the Broncos may have rated Smith on their 2009 board. And if Smith has a big season and the Broncos win the AFC West, a No. 2 or a No. 1 will have been worth it.

"Maybe you don't hit it right sometimes, but I believe in that," Beathard said.

WolfpackGuy
09-28-2010, 05:36 PM
"It's really the philosophy of let's get better now," said Beathard, who built rosters in Miami, Washington and San Diego that went to seven Super Bowls and won four. In 1993, Beathard traded San Diego's No. 1 draft pick in 1994 for the right to select running back Natrone Means in the second round, right then and there..

Wow, that pick eventually turned into Bryant Young...

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/football/DraftTrades/1994.htm

Fair trade since Means was in JAX by 1996.

outdoor_miner
09-28-2010, 07:15 PM
But when you decide that everyone else in the entire world is stupid and you're smart, and you take someone in the second round when no one else thinks he should go before the 5th or so (and I'm not sure anyone thought Quinn should go there)--well--you better damn well be right.

Sorry man - Pro Football Weekly's draft value chart had Richard Quinn at the top of the 3rd...

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2009/04/22/tyson-jackson-aaron-maybin-moving-up

The value board below is based on considerable feedback from NFL teams and projects the league value of players, pinpointing a specific area where players likely will be drafted. It is important to note that these values do not reflect where PFW thinks the players should be drafted or what type of pros they will become; that is better reflected in PFW's grades.

SoCalBronco
09-28-2010, 07:17 PM
https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/bfmusni/www/DQ_title.jpg

The MVPlaya
09-28-2010, 07:28 PM
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/3/lu3z6.gif

mhgaffney
09-28-2010, 07:34 PM
To think we traded away Sheffler -- who has the speed to get behind the LBs -- and the hands to make big plays.

mhgaffney
09-28-2010, 07:35 PM
I never understood or agreed with the Sheffler hate on the OM.

Hamrob
09-28-2010, 07:35 PM
The draft is a crap shoot.

Ayers, McBath, Walton, Beadles, Thomas - look like good picks
Moreno, Tebow - The jury is out
Smith, Quinn - Busts

09 draft - preety weak
10 draft - Looks strong

I'd say their drafts have been o.k...maybe not stellar...but not bad either.

WABronco
09-28-2010, 07:38 PM
Not sure who you're referring to here.

Any and every decision maker in the NFL...

bowtown
09-28-2010, 07:38 PM
Just to put the current draft philosophy in context. Xanders learned under Beathard



Great find.

The MVPlaya
09-28-2010, 07:40 PM
I never understood or agreed with the Sheffler hate on the OM.

I guess it's easy to like a guy when he imposes his wishes that he "can't wait" till the season ends when your team is battling for a playoff spot.

bowtown
09-28-2010, 07:44 PM
I guess it's easy to like a guy when he imposes his wishes that he "can't wait" till the season ends when your team is battling for a playoff spot.

Sheffler is really good though... at getting hurt.

Dagmar
09-28-2010, 08:06 PM
I never understood or agreed with the Sheffler hate on the OM.

I defer to montrose.

http://i54.tinypic.com/smvix5.png

Rabb
09-28-2010, 08:18 PM
To think we traded away Sheffler -- who has the speed to get behind the LBs -- and the hands to make big plays.

do you have any clue how the TE is used in our offense?

KipCorrington25
09-28-2010, 08:42 PM
Hey, good news, if he's now admitting all his mistakes we should expect a resignation any second now!!!

barryr
09-28-2010, 09:33 PM
Sheffler? Hillis? I can never understand why some people have this fascination of pumping up average players to stardom or key cogs to winning championships. Hillis and Sheffler are where they belong. Playing on teams that won't win much and where there is no pressure to perform and win.

Paladin
09-28-2010, 09:34 PM
It appear the drafting of Quinn was mistake, and what make it more evident is the fact that Gronkowski (a seventh round pick with less three week on the team) has already jumped him on the depth chart. Hopefully the front office will learn and value draft picks more then they have....

Sorry, Brah, but this is total BS........

Popps
09-28-2010, 09:45 PM
Sorry, Brah, but this is total BS........

Yea, I mean... I just hope Josh learns from the message board, here.

Hilarious!

strafen
09-28-2010, 09:54 PM
Sheffler? Hillis? I can never understand why some people have this fascination of pumping up average players to stardom or key cogs to winning championships. Hillis and Sheffler are where they belong. Playing on teams that won't win much and where there is no pressure to perform and win.Like Denver right now, perhaps?

footstepsfrom#27
09-28-2010, 10:03 PM
Dude, I honestly can't tell if you're joking at this point.

I GOT it.

Are you serious? What wasn't to get?
If you say so.

Popps
09-28-2010, 10:18 PM
If you say so.

Cool. Glad we got through that.

SoCalBronco
09-28-2010, 10:28 PM
Sorry, Brah, but this is total BS........

No, its not BS. They have to value picks. They have to value the institution of the draft. They have to change their theory of drafting. It's an unacceptable way of doing things. This isn't Playstation. You don't get a hard on for a guy and then say we're going to do whatever it takes to get him..give up a bunch of picks, or give up higher future picks. You develop a draft board. You put more than 100 names on it and be MATURE enough to realize that you might not get Target #1 at every slot so don't turn the world upside down just to ensure you do. Sometimes, going with Target # 2 or Target # 3 rather than sacrificing future value left and right is a good idea. In fact, its a good idea the vast majority of the time. Respect the value of picks, respect the concept of quantity. Now I know Popps and some others have argued that well look, we've drafted 9 guys the last two years so its not like we're suffering there, but the only way we were able to do that was when we realized "oh ****, its Day 2 and we've already traded away most of our stuff, let's dip into next year's pool to make up for it". You can't do that all the time, its irresponsible to do that all the time. You will eventually start killing your future drafts this way because there will be a year where you've given up a ton of picks that you can't get back even though you have tons of needs. We should be constantly striving to trade down and acquire more picks, not just be constantly mortgaging and leveraging future drafts to satisfy momentary hard ons. Not only should this be the policy of the FO, if Bowlen had a slight hint of sack, it should be a command that comes from him, because if we focused on getting more draft picks through trading away spare parts (how is it that the Lions got something for Polumbus and we didn't, take whatever you get, a 7th is great, just cutting the guy won't "show em") or trading down a few spots to get more quantity (even if it requires foregoing the chart premium, in fact I will take LESS than equal chart value to trade down, the chart massively overvalues higher picks) we'll be able to fill more spots cheaper than FA, and with far less risk than FA if it doesnt pan out and the kid will have far more motivation to succeed than a FA who just signed a deal.

This is the No. 1 failing of this regime, philosophy wise. They do ALOT of good things, this isn't one of them.

serious hops
09-29-2010, 12:39 AM
No, its not BS. They have to value picks. They have to value the institution of the draft. They have to change their theory of drafting. It's an unacceptable way of doing things. This isn't Playstation. You don't get a hard on for a guy and then say we're going to do whatever it takes to get him..give up a bunch of picks, or give up higher future picks. You develop a draft board. You put more than 100 names on it and be MATURE enough to realize that you might not get Target #1 at every slot so don't turn the world upside down just to ensure you do. Sometimes, going with Target # 2 or Target # 3 rather than sacrificing future value left and right is a good idea. In fact, its a good idea the vast majority of the time. Respect the value of picks, respect the concept of quantity. Now I know Popps and some others have argued that well look, we've drafted 9 guys the last two years so its not like we're suffering there, but the only way we were able to do that was when we realized "oh ****, its Day 2 and we've already traded away most of our stuff, let's dip into next year's pool to make up for it". You can't do that all the time, its irresponsible to do that all the time. You will eventually start killing your future drafts this way because there will be a year where you've given up a ton of picks that you can't get back even though you have tons of needs. We should be constantly striving to trade down and acquire more picks, not just be constantly mortgaging and leveraging future drafts to satisfy momentary hard ons. Not only should this be the policy of the FO, if Bowlen had a slight hint of sack, it should be a command that comes from him, because if we focused on getting more draft picks through trading away spare parts (how is it that the Lions got something for Polumbus and we didn't, take whatever you get, a 7th is great, just cutting the guy won't "show em") or trading down a few spots to get more quantity (even if it requires foregoing the chart premium, in fact I will take LESS than equal chart value to trade down, the chart massively overvalues higher picks) we'll be able to fill more spots cheaper than FA, and with far less risk than FA if it doesnt pan out and the kid will have far more motivation to succeed than a FA who just signed a deal.

This is the No. 1 failing of this regime, philosophy wise. They do ALOT of good things, this isn't one of them.

You fit three paragraph's worth of rant into one, and forgot to mention that McD only had those extra picks to play with in the first place because he sold off Shanahan's talent. ;)

HEAV
09-29-2010, 12:44 AM
No way! You mean that Charlie Casserly drafted Heath Shuler and failed? No way!

I could have sworn Casserly knew his stuff. Imagine that...

Desmond Howard?

TheReverend
09-29-2010, 01:04 AM
Desmond Howard?

^ Super Bowl MVP

Agree with the Casserly sucks theme though. Here's Belichick's opinion of Casserly: "Who's been wrong more than Charley Casserly since he left the Redskins? Wherever he's been, whatever he's done, his percentage is like a meteorologist...He has no relationship with this team, I'd say less than zero. He's never here, I don't know if he's ever been to a game. He's never been to a practice...at least he put his name on it and I'll put my name on it and say, like he usually is, he's 100-percent wrong."

broncocalijohn
09-29-2010, 01:10 AM
I neg reped him (Thoughtless pic post) and everyone should.

I was going to say I dont believe it until i hear it came from the light rail. Seems pic wasnt big enough. Pos rep!

Taco John
09-29-2010, 01:20 AM
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8379/soniamproud.jpg

broncocalijohn
09-29-2010, 01:56 AM
Dude, it was a bad pick. I am sure Josh would take it back if he could. Why even try and spin or marginalize it?

Don't worry, they won't come take your Mcdaniels fathead if you critique a Josh move.

lol! very classic reply. He is what he is. I like Popps but his homerism shows so bad. It is almost like going in the WAR forum and watch posters protect their political party.

TheReverend
09-29-2010, 02:43 AM
Not as bad as drafting WIDE RECEIVERS that can't catch in the 2nd round though, right?

Cough, cough....Darius Watts....cough, cough...

Or hell, drafting running backs that can't run in the 2nd round........cough, Tatum Bell

Does that have a shred of anything to do with the current discussion?

Haroldthebarrel
09-29-2010, 04:13 AM
I wonder if McD is gonna copy Shanahan and draft badly in years that end in an odd number, but have decent drafts in years that end in an even number...

Don't you think that has a little bit to do with the fact that even numbered years have had more talent?

As far as Quinn is concerned. Trading up for him was bad. BUT, when you look at the talent in that draft beyond the second round even now in hindsight who should he had taken?
That draft is so void of talent it is almost funny. It did have good to great talent at LB which he appeared to have gotten right with Ayers,
This year draft is imo so talented it may be a one every ten years type of draft.

What I think we should hope and expect from McDaniels is that he learns from his mistakes, which incidentally he seemed to have done with a vengeance in this years draft.
I hope McDaniels don't repeat Shanahans tendency to draft skill players over the lines each and every year. (and then to top it blame the DC for the lack of defense while not giving them anything up front but retreads).

55CrushEm
09-29-2010, 05:59 AM
Does that have a shred of anything to do with the current discussion?

Yes.

spdirty
09-29-2010, 06:58 AM
No, its not BS. They have to value picks. They have to value the institution of the draft. They have to change their theory of drafting. It's an unacceptable way of doing things. This isn't Playstation. You don't get a hard on for a guy and then say we're going to do whatever it takes to get him..give up a bunch of picks, or give up higher future picks. You develop a draft board. You put more than 100 names on it and be MATURE enough to realize that you might not get Target #1 at every slot so don't turn the world upside down just to ensure you do. Sometimes, going with Target # 2 or Target # 3 rather than sacrificing future value left and right is a good idea. In fact, its a good idea the vast majority of the time. Respect the value of picks, respect the concept of quantity. Now I know Popps and some others have argued that well look, we've drafted 9 guys the last two years so its not like we're suffering there, but the only way we were able to do that was when we realized "oh ****, its Day 2 and we've already traded away most of our stuff, let's dip into next year's pool to make up for it". You can't do that all the time, its irresponsible to do that all the time. You will eventually start killing your future drafts this way because there will be a year where you've given up a ton of picks that you can't get back even though you have tons of needs. We should be constantly striving to trade down and acquire more picks, not just be constantly mortgaging and leveraging future drafts to satisfy momentary hard ons. Not only should this be the policy of the FO, if Bowlen had a slight hint of sack, it should be a command that comes from him, because if we focused on getting more draft picks through trading away spare parts (how is it that the Lions got something for Polumbus and we didn't, take whatever you get, a 7th is great, just cutting the guy won't "show em") or trading down a few spots to get more quantity (even if it requires foregoing the chart premium, in fact I will take LESS than equal chart value to trade down, the chart massively overvalues higher picks) we'll be able to fill more spots cheaper than FA, and with far less risk than FA if it doesnt pan out and the kid will have far more motivation to succeed than a FA who just signed a deal.

This is the No. 1 failing of this regime, philosophy wise. They do ALOT of good things, this isn't one of them.

And no more does this rant of yours ring true than in the Richard Quinn trade/draft.


Win some lose some right? The Steelers understood that and used the strategy of trading 1 bullet for 2 and trading lil dickie quinn for Kraig Urbik and Mike Wallace.

Ray Finkle
09-29-2010, 07:20 AM
the draft is a complete crap shoot. I understand you need to value your picks but you also have to be able to be flexible to move up if you target a guy that you believe will be gone when you pick.

Sometimes it works out well (Dan Neil, Cutler, Thomas (so far)) and sometimes it doesn't Moss, Smith, and maybe Quinn.

lostknight
09-29-2010, 08:30 AM
As for McDaniels' "index cards," he and the staff narrowed down their choices to a smaller sample size due to having less time to prepare. Seems logical enough.


Which again, raises the question of why exactly they decided that Josh's henchman should be GM, and they should get rid of the (already prepped and ready) GM staff before the draft.

It was moronic, and it hurt this team.

Mr.Meanie
09-29-2010, 09:12 AM
The draft is a crap shoot.

Ayers, McBath, Walton, Beadles, Thomas - look like good picks
Moreno, Tebow - The jury is out
Smith, Quinn - Busts

09 draft - preety weak
10 draft - Looks strong

I'd say their drafts have been o.k...maybe not stellar...but not bad either.

Also good picks: Decker, Cox, Bruton
Impossible to tell: McKinley (RIP), Syd'Quan
Busts: Brandstater

Rock Chalk
09-29-2010, 09:26 AM
I disagree. Moreno and Ayers have not shown me anything. They may eventually, but I am having doubts. I think this whole draft was a bust.

What?

Splitting time last year Moreno almost cracked 1000 yards when the entire offense was new for everyone and he was a rookie. This year his injury has slowed his progress, that and 3 rookies playing on the line.

Ayers has already proven to be very much worth his draft status and if you cant see that you are a blind moron.

AND McBath, from all accounts EVERYWHERE state that he is the best of our young safeties and is the heir apparent to Dawkins (or is it Hill?) and has played well when in there. He can actually you know, ****ing tackle.

PRBronco
09-29-2010, 09:47 AM
What?

Splitting time last year Moreno almost cracked 1000 yards when the entire offense was new for everyone and he was a rookie. This year his injury has slowed his progress, that and 3 rookies playing on the line.

Ayers has already proven to be very much worth his draft status and if you cant see that you are a blind moron.

AND McBath, from all accounts EVERYWHERE state that he is the best of our young safeties and is the heir apparent to Dawkins (or is it Hill?) and has played well when in there. He can actually you know, ****ing tackle.

I was really pleased with him on Sunday, especially considering that monstrous cast, he was tackling really well.

Popps
09-29-2010, 09:52 AM
lol! very classic reply. He is what he is. I like Popps but his homerism shows so bad. It is almost like going in the WAR forum and watch posters protect their political party.

"Homerism?"

You mean, it's bad to be a homer for your team? Weird... never knew that.

By the way, when I thought it was time for Shanny to move on... was I a "homer," then? Just curious.

I've also made it very clear that McD is going to hit and miss some picks. Never once have I said Quinn was a great pick, at this point. I liked it when we made it, but so did a lot of us.

You've been going on random attack lately, bro. You're usually better than that.

TonyR
09-29-2010, 10:03 AM
...why exactly they decided that Josh's henchman should be GM, and they should get rid of the (already prepped and ready) GM staff before the draft.

A bit off topic but does anyone find it interesting that the Goodmans still don't have jobs in the league? Or did I miss the news that they got work?

broncocalijohn
09-29-2010, 10:13 AM
"Homerism?"

You mean, it's bad to be a homer for your team? Weird... never knew that.

By the way, when I thought it was time for Shanny to move on... was I a "homer," then? Just curious.

I've also made it very clear that McD is going to hit and miss some picks. Never once have I said Quinn was a great pick, at this point. I liked it when we made it, but so did a lot of us.

You've been going on random attack lately, bro. You're usually better than that.

Homerism was when Shanny left, you would be happy as it is the broncos doing in a now former coach. I never said i dont like you as I stated I did but it is quite obvious whatever the Broncos do, you are pretty much the spokeshole for the team. As you know, I am a Hillis fan as you used to be. Once he got demoted last year, you went the route of "If my man McD says he sucks, then I say he sucks." Like a total 180. Looks weird when you speak out for someone then totally dis him for no reason. Trust me Popps, if they arent saying it about you in the posts (which many are), they are saying it in reps. No one calls me a McD disciple because I have spoken out against him on a few things even though I support him on the whole package. One rep that was said stated it was like Popps was a McD family member.

Popps
09-29-2010, 10:20 AM
Homerism was when Shanny left, you would be happy as it is the broncos doing in a now former coach. I never said i dont like you as I stated I did but it is quite obvious whatever the Broncos do, you are pretty much the spokeshole for the team. As you know, I am a Hillis fan as you used to be. Once he got demoted last year, you went the route of "If my man McD says he sucks, then I say he sucks." Like a total 180. Looks weird when you speak out for someone then totally dis him for no reason. Trust me Popps, if they arent saying it about you in the posts (which many are), they are saying it in reps. No one calls me a McD disciple because I have spoken out against him on a few things even though I support him on the whole package. One rep that was said stated it was like Popps was a McD family member.

That's a mouthful, and mostly nonsense.

First off, you know I couldn't give a **** what anyone says about me on "rep." So, you can keep that stuff.

But, I appreciate the fan "intervention" you're taking on. I'll try to be a better fan from here out, dislike my team more often... and agree with you more.

Oh, and I'll criticize my coach's every move without giving those moves time to pan out. That seems to be another key.

Keep me updated on what else I need to work on, boss.

:thumbs:

Popps
09-29-2010, 10:21 AM
No one calls me a McD disciple .

As long as you sleep well at night, brother. Thank god no one is saying anything bad about you on a football board. Whew!

Los Broncos
09-29-2010, 10:23 AM
That's a mouthful, and mostly nonsense.

First off, you know I couldn't give a **** what anyone says about me on "rep." So, you can keep that stuff.

But, I appreciate the fan "intervention" you're taking on. I'll try to be a better fan from here out, dislike my team more often... and agree with you more.

Oh, and I'll criticize my coach's every move without giving those moves time to pan out. That seems to be another key.

Keep me updated on what else I need to work on, boss.

:thumbs:

More hate Popps, more hate.

baja
09-29-2010, 10:25 AM
A bit off topic but does anyone find it interesting that the Goodmans still don't have jobs in the league? Or did I miss the news that they got work?

Ya and when you consider they had two of the best drafts in the history of the universe ( according to some here) it's sure a head scratcher. ;D

Mediator12
09-29-2010, 10:29 AM
I am so TIRED of hearing players not taken in the first 20 picks or so of the draft as being labeled as busts. The game at the NFL level is all about mental talent as well as the physical. There is no one playing in the NFL that does not have the physical ability. The difference between the HOF player and the average NFL player is mental ability and preparation. Emmit Smith was a 4.6 running back, Jerry Rice a 4.5 WR, Peyton Manning has average arm Strength. What seperates them from the average NFL player? They were mentally Better than the players they play against.

There is no magic Formula to evaluate Players mental toughness and Character. That is why so many unbelievable talents routinely fail in the NFL. The FO has to go with its best guess of Talent, risk/reward, and value on game day. To label players that were not top 20 picks busts is just an easy excuse to support a bias.

Popps
09-29-2010, 10:42 AM
More hate Popps, more hate.

http://killmydaynow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/HatersGonnaHate26PICS_7DA0/hater_gonna_hate_17.jpg

Popps
09-29-2010, 10:44 AM
I am so TIRED of hearing players not taken in the first 20 picks or so of the draft as being labeled as busts. The game at the NFL level is all about mental talent as well as the physical. There is no one playing in the NFL that does not have the physical ability. The difference between the HOF player and the average NFL player is mental ability and preparation. Emmit Smith was a 4.6 running back, Jerry Rice a 4.5 WR, Peyton Manning has average arm Strength. What seperates them from the average NFL player? They were mentally Better than the players they play against.

There is no magic Formula to evaluate Players mental toughness and Character. That is why so many unbelievable talents routinely fail in the NFL. The FO has to go with its best guess of Talent, risk/reward, and value on game day. To label players that were not top 20 picks busts is just an easy excuse to support a bias.



As always, dead-on.

Los Broncos
09-29-2010, 10:44 AM
All that kid needs is an AK-47.

KipCorrington25
09-29-2010, 06:29 PM
I am so TIRED of hearing players not taken in the first 20 picks or so of the draft as being labeled as busts. The game at the NFL level is all about mental talent as well as the physical. There is no one playing in the NFL that does not have the physical ability. The difference between the HOF player and the average NFL player is mental ability and preparation. Emmit Smith was a 4.6 running back, Jerry Rice a 4.5 WR, Peyton Manning has average arm Strength. What seperates them from the average NFL player? They were mentally Better than the players they play against.

There is no magic Formula to evaluate Players mental toughness and Character. That is why so many unbelievable talents routinely fail in the NFL. The FO has to go with its best guess of Talent, risk/reward, and value on game day. To label players that were not top 20 picks busts is just an easy excuse to support a bias.

I think the issue is that we're seeing busts that McDaniels went out and traded up to get, so in essence gave up value and identified these as his hand picked guys. Alphonso Smith and Richard Quinn didn't just fall in our laps on the draft board they were both guys he specifically targeted and traded up to get and both are total busts. So you see that and other picks he's made, Moreno, Ayers, etc. and you see a pattern developing and it's scary.

So it's not just, oh, Richard Quinn is a bust, it's yeah and McDaniels went and got him and Alphonso Smith thinking he made a coup when in fact he **** the bed.

extralife
09-29-2010, 06:36 PM
You trade up for someone, you take the heat when they fail. It's not rocket science.

WolfpackGuy
09-29-2010, 06:40 PM
Not picking up ANY defensive line help in the last two drafts is inexcusable.

DenverBrit
09-29-2010, 06:44 PM
I think the issue is that we're seeing busts that McDaniels went out and traded up to get, so in essence gave up value and identified these as his hand picked guys. Alphonso Smith and Richard Quinn didn't just fall in our laps on the draft board they were both guys he specifically targeted and traded up to get and both are total busts. So you see that and other picks he's made, Moreno, Ayers, etc. and you see a pattern developing and it's scary.

So it's not just, oh, Richard Quinn is a bust, it's yeah and McDaniels went and got him and Alphonso Smith thinking he made a coup when in fact he **** the bed.


Give this regime some time, they'll make mistakes, but count the successes too.
Denver is not the only team making draft mistakes.....there are 31 others doing the same thing.

It's a crap shoot....ask Shanny.

jsco70
09-29-2010, 06:51 PM
I am so TIRED of hearing players not taken in the first 20 picks or so of the draft as being labeled as busts. The game at the NFL level is all about mental talent as well as the physical. There is no one playing in the NFL that does not have the physical ability. The difference between the HOF player and the average NFL player is mental ability and preparation. Emmit Smith was a 4.6 running back, Jerry Rice a 4.5 WR, Peyton Manning has average arm Strength. What seperates them from the average NFL player? They were mentally Better than the players they play against.

There is no magic Formula to evaluate Players mental toughness and Character. That is why so many unbelievable talents routinely fail in the NFL. The FO has to go with its best guess of Talent, risk/reward, and value on game day. To label players that were not top 20 picks busts is just an easy excuse to support a bias.

What I'm tired of is posters continually bashing McDaniels and holding him up to some higher standard. Like trading up for a player who didn't turn out is something only he has done. What, has everyone simply forgot Shanahan traded up for Moss? I'm sure a simple search could turn up similar stories as this by other head coaches/front offices.

In addition, 2009 was his first draft. He obviously made a mistake with Quinn (A.Smith is making plays in SEA so I don't count him) but I personally don't think it's a trend. The 2010 draft looks like a very solid draft.

For whatever reason, McDaniels will simply never win over certain Bronco fans. Some are disgruntled because he exposed Cutler, and didn't put up with Marshall and Scheffler's BS. Others are probably jealous that a 32 year old is running a NFL football organization while they play Monday Morning QB/Fantasy Team/Salary Cap and Draft Value Expert on the internet.

Regardless, I'm going to enjoy watching McDaniels succeed while they look for reasons to complain about him. This team is improving and, from my perspective, a person has to really make an effort not to see it.

Hamrob
09-29-2010, 08:30 PM
Enjoy watching McDaniels succeed? O.k. Let's hope.

As of right now. We fired a HOF coach who could not get us to the playoffs...who was stuck on 8-8...FOR:

A coach who goes....8-8 and in his 2nd year has the ceiling set at 8-8.

Yeah...let's hope he gets the oppurtunity to succeed. Betting odds are that he gets fired!

Dagmar
09-29-2010, 08:36 PM
Enjoy watching McDaniels succeed? O.k. Let's hope.

As of right now. We fired a HOF coach who could not get us to the playoffs...who was stuck on 8-8...FOR:

A coach who goes....8-8 and in his 2nd year has the ceiling set at 8-8.

Yeah...let's hope he gets the oppurtunity to succeed. Betting odds are that he gets fired!

Of course it is. And learn to spell you 'tard.

tsiguy96
09-29-2010, 08:39 PM
this forum is so stupid. another argument with the same 3 idiots trolling about how bad mcdaniels is, and everyone else biting and turning it into ANOTHER 10 page thread. just like the hillis one.

DBroncos4life
09-29-2010, 08:44 PM
this forum is so stupid. another argument with the same 3 idiots trolling about how bad mcdaniels is, and everyone else biting and turning it into ANOTHER 10 page thread. just like the hillis one.

Yeah it sucks that you are forced to log on and have to read this ****.

strafen
09-29-2010, 10:25 PM
Of course it is. And learn to spell you 'tard.

Where is the misspelling?

SoCalBronco
09-29-2010, 10:25 PM
A bit off topic but does anyone find it interesting that the Goodmans still don't have jobs in the league? Or did I miss the news that they got work?

It doesn't surprise me at all that the younger Goodman is out of work. It seems well settled that he basically forced his way into the organization through his Dad's good name, he's a scrub. Jim Goodman, however, is a talented guy and should have a job. I don't know why he isn't working right now, although I suspect a portion of it might be due to age discrimination. While he has his flaws, he did a very nice job of drafting offensive talent.

I know you didn't bring him up, but it doesn't surprise me that Sundquist is in the UFL. Everyone knew he had no power and made no real decisions (and as such didn't and shouldn't get any credit or blame for anything). I'm sure the league also thought he was pathetic for constantly writing self serving blog posts, so I'm not surprised he wasn't well thought of in the NFL and I'm not surprised what he's doing now. In many ways he reminds me of Xanders. If he doesn't stay in Josh's good graces, he's probably going to end up in the UFL too....or at Pizza Hut. Or both.

Popps
09-29-2010, 11:22 PM
Is it Sunday yet?

Cito Pelon
09-30-2010, 12:10 AM
A bit off topic but does anyone find it interesting that the Goodmans still don't have jobs in the league? Or did I miss the news that they got work?

They're comfortably being held hostage at Rancho Pavo, Baja Sur, Mejico. All the turkey enchiladas they can eat, mariachis, coke skanks, the whole ten metres. baja's treat.

BroncoBuff
09-30-2010, 05:45 AM
Desmond Clark dropped a 4th and goal TD pass Monday ... maybe the Bears will trade him.

Steve Sewell
09-30-2010, 06:40 AM
Others are probably jealous that a 32 year old is running a NFL football organization while they play Monday Morning QB/Fantasy Team/Salary Cap and Draft Value Expert on the internet.


This is one of the main reasons for the hatred of McDaniels. Spot on.

tsiguy96
09-30-2010, 06:43 AM
Yeah it sucks that you are forced to log on and have to read this ****.

i know right?

Steve Sewell
09-30-2010, 06:46 AM
It doesn't surprise me at all that the younger Goodman is out of work. It seems well settled that he basically forced his way into the organization through his Dad's good name, he's a scrub. Jim Goodman, however, is a talented guy and should have a job. I don't know why he isn't working right now, although I suspect a portion of it might be due to age discrimination. While he has his flaws, he did a very nice job of drafting offensive talent.

I know you didn't bring him up, but it doesn't surprise me that Sundquist is in the UFL. Everyone knew he had no power and made no real decisions (and as such didn't and shouldn't get any credit or blame for anything). I'm sure the league also thought he was pathetic for constantly writing self serving blog posts, so I'm not surprised he wasn't well thought of in the NFL and I'm not surprised what he's doing now. In many ways he reminds me of Xanders. If he doesn't stay in Josh's good graces, he's probably going to end up in the UFL too....or at Pizza Hut. Or both.

You should see the Omaha Nighthawks roster.

PJ Alexander, George Foster, Mo Clarrett, Calvin Lowry, Jeb Putzier, Demetrin Veal, and several others.

In any case, isn't Xanders more of a cap wiz than a talent evaluator?

HILife
09-30-2010, 08:05 AM
It doesn't surprise me at all that the younger Goodman is out of work. It seems well settled that he basically forced his way into the organization through his Dad's good name, he's a scrub. Jim Goodman, however, is a talented guy and should have a job. I don't know why he isn't working right now, although I suspect a portion of it might be due to age discrimination. While he has his flaws, he did a very nice job of drafting offensive talent.

I know you didn't bring him up, but it doesn't surprise me that Sundquist is in the UFL. Everyone knew he had no power and made no real decisions (and as such didn't and shouldn't get any credit or blame for anything). I'm sure the league also thought he was pathetic for constantly writing self serving blog posts, so I'm not surprised he wasn't well thought of in the NFL and I'm not surprised what he's doing now. In many ways he reminds me of Xanders. If he doesn't stay in Josh's good graces, he's probably going to end up in the UFL too....or at Pizza Hut. Or both.

What did Colonel Xanders do that got you hating on him?

Rock Chalk
09-30-2010, 08:49 AM
McD had little time to prepare for that first draft. Despite that we got Ayers, Moreno and McBath out of it and all look like they will be solid players for us for a long time.

So he missed on a couple, fair enough.

His following draft, where he had ample time to prepare and his scouting dept plenty of time to evaluate the players, looks to be one fo the best drafts in recent memory. Beadles, Walton, Cox, Thompson, Thomas and the big risk or reward player Tebow. Already we are seeing 4 of those 6 names playing significant minutes for the team either by design or necessity and have done well for their part.

And if Smith was a bust, how come he is starting on another team? Just because he isnt a starter here doesn't mean he isn't NFL starting caliber and that is NOT a bust. I dont understand why people pick and choose the "mistakes" Josh makes but then fail to acknowledge his successes as well. Last year his FA pickups were damn near flawless, this year looks to be good as well, IN ADDITION to this years excellent draft.

TonyR
09-30-2010, 09:01 AM
...Alphonso Smith and Richard Quinn didn't just fall in our laps on the draft board they were both guys he specifically targeted and traded up to get and both are total busts. So you see that and other picks he's made, Moreno, Ayers, etc. and you see a pattern developing and it's scary.

Assuming the "pattern" you refer to is negative in nature, how is the Ayers pick "bad"? Because he wasn't a Pro Bowler his rookie year and hasn't single handedly delivered victories his 2nd?

Taco John
09-30-2010, 09:05 AM
this forum is so stupid. another argument with the same 3 idiots trolling about how bad mcdaniels is, and everyone else biting and turning it into ANOTHER 10 page thread. just like the hillis one.

Hey I tried to start a pep rally thread for the upcoming Titans game. I didn't see you post there, but I see you posting here.

tsiguy96
09-30-2010, 09:08 AM
Hey I tried to start a pep rally thread for the upcoming Titans game. I didn't see you post there, but I see you posting here.

i actually looked for a picture to post in it and couldnt find a good one so i didnt post anything.

Taco John
09-30-2010, 09:29 AM
i actually looked for a picture to post in it and couldnt find a good one so i didnt post anything.

What you don't have MS Paint!?

Make one! I did! ;)

Chris
09-30-2010, 09:31 AM
Use gimp guys. It's free and much closer to photoshop.

Mediator12
09-30-2010, 09:37 AM
I think the issue is that we're seeing busts that McDaniels went out and traded up to get, so in essence gave up value and identified these as his hand picked guys. Alphonso Smith and Richard Quinn didn't just fall in our laps on the draft board they were both guys he specifically targeted and traded up to get and both are total busts. So you see that and other picks he's made, Moreno, Ayers, etc. and you see a pattern developing and it's scary.

So it's not just, oh, Richard Quinn is a bust, it's yeah and McDaniels went and got him and Alphonso Smith thinking he made a coup when in fact he **** the bed.

The problem is the word BUST. Again, its used so poorly around here and by fans in general. I freely admit that the use of resources to acquire those players turned out bad for the team in the short run.

However, they were not meant to be short run moves, but long term ones. Smith was supposed to be the young stud in the secondary to take over for Champ one day soon. Quinn was supposed to be the TE to replace Graham. The team had them evaluated higher than some people, and at the time Smith was seen as a HUGE value pick. A first round talent who slipped into the second round.

What is tremendously annoying is the instant expectations of fans to see these players succeed in the short term. Now, more than ever people expect the fifth round developmental pick to start RIGHT AWAY. And, not even start, but play better than the veterans they are playing against! There is simply too much need for instant gratification among fareweather fans.

So, while you and others would like to say he screwed up and pat your chests triumphantly, you generally make a one sided self serving argument. You may be right in regards to those 2 players, but your battle sucks and is simply not that big a deal in the big picture.

I for one think McDaniels has made his share of mistakes for a rookie coach. Those were to be expected. However, when you have 2 of the franchises star players revolt on you, people are going to be upset. Those 2 stars were drafted by Mike Shanahan and showed all their character to the fans. They have terrible, even reprehensible character and I for one am glad they are gone.

That is part of the team McDaniels inherited from Shanahan. A poorly constructed group of selfish players who underperformed on the field. I do not see that in DEN anymore. These players are more focused on winning versus looking good themselves. Everyone who bemoans that talented young offense also forgets how much they underperformed especially with the season on the line. Now, last years team certainly underperformed down the stretch too.

The thing that gives me hope, is that the system changes in DEN are more cutting edge in the NFL than the outdated schemes DEN deployed in 2007 and 2008. And, they are about 60% of the way to having the right personnel to run those schemes. So, while DEN is not Blowing people away as they make their changes, they are certainly more than competitive while doing so.

TonyR
09-30-2010, 10:03 AM
...people expect the fifth round developmental pick to start RIGHT AWAY. And, not even start, but play better than the veterans they are playing against! There is simply too much need for instant gratification...

Great post, should be required reading for everyone who frequents these discussions. The part above particularly bothers me, people bashing Cox for actually getting beat a couple of times by Peyton Manning. Ridic.

CEH
09-30-2010, 10:26 AM
Great post, should be required reading for everyone who frequents these discussions. The part above particularly bothers me, people bashing Cox for actually getting beat a couple of times by Peyton Manning. Ridic.

I think ppl take Manning for granted now a days but he is probably the best QB in NFL history. What he did on Sunday was a thing of beauty

I thought Cox played well enough against Peyton for being a rookie and his first game starting. Baptism by fire will only make the kid better faster

I would feel very comforatble with Cox starting opposite Champ from here on out if needed to

Manning is the best QB he will see by a long shot

TonyR
09-30-2010, 10:52 AM
I think ppl take Manning for granted now a days but he is probably the best QB in NFL history. What he did on Sunday was a thing of beauty...

You must have heard the discussion on Mike&Mike this morning. It was interesting and I tended to agree.

~Crash~
09-30-2010, 11:04 AM
I think ppl take Manning for granted now a days but he is probably the best QB in NFL history. What he did on Sunday was a thing of beauty

I thought Cox played well enough against Peyton for being a rookie and his first game starting. Baptism by fire will only make the kid better faster

I would feel very comforatble with Cox starting opposite Champ from here on out if needed to

Manning is the best QB he will see by a long shot

How true hell Manning stuffed a pass in so tight I could not believe that one against Bailey . he was so damn close I was like wow how the hell did Manning just do that . I think his coaches told him to damn close go some were Else

LRtagger
09-30-2010, 11:10 AM
Cox looked a hell of a lot better than Roc or DWill did as rookies against Manning.