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JoRo
09-27-2010, 08:36 AM
per: footballoutsiders.com


Seemed worth sharing since I follow the site every week and they rarely do an audibles at the line of Denver since none of them actually are fans of the team.



Indianapolis Colts 27 at Denver Broncos 13
Aaron Schatz: Denver is playing some really tight coverage against the Colts today, at least in the first quarter. They just had a massive screw-up, muffing a Colts punt (recovered by Top 25 Prospects refugee Justin Tryon) which gave Indy the ball at the Denver 14... and the Colts couldn't move the ball, actually going back one yard on a bad run with two incompletions before Vinatieri came in for a field goal.

Mike Kurtz: Yeah, the other crazy thing is that they're getting decent pressure, and as far as I can tell they're doing it with relatively simple packages. The one time they tried something really crazy (a CB blitz on third-and-short), Manning read it perfectly and burned them with a quick toss outside.

Tim Gerheim: Kyle Orton is throwing the ball about as hard as you can throw it. Sometimes that makes it unnecessarily hard to catch, but other times it prevents Jerraud Powers from intercepting a pass on an out route. It also lets Demaryius Thomas show what good hands he has. And his touchdown to Brandon Lloyd was a spectacular throw. Any shorter and it's broken up by the DB trailing the play, any deeper and Lloyd probably can't come down with it before he goes out the back of the end zone. I almost wonder whether, if he didn't look like such a poindexter, he would have been regarded more highly throughout his career.


Mike Kurtz: Ortoooon! Poindexter, though? Never heard his appearance described as such.

I think what we're seeing with Orton is a bit involvement with a non-dysfunctional offensive system and a bit playing behind an offensive line that isn't a joke. He may even have a higher ceiling than I thought.

Simms: "You have to catch the ball, with your hands. And it has to be clean."

Orton is probably going to cut a sharp contrast between traditional stats and DVOA ... Orton had a monster game, 37-57-476-1-1, but something like half of his incomplete passes came in the red zone. Denver was within 20 five times and came away with no touchdowns, which was pretty much the difference in the game. I will say, however, that Denver's defense isn't nearly as awful as I thought it was, and kept the game close despite the offense's wasted opportunities.

Aaron Schatz: think we've already talked about this on the site a couple times, but what happened with Kyle Orton is that he never, ever should have played as a rookie. You can't expect a third-round rookie to play well, and in fact, he did not. If you take out his rookie numbers, and think of him as a third-rounder who sat on the bench for two years and then came in for his first action in 2007 and finally became the full-time starter in his fourth year, 2008, his career makes a LOT more sense.


Also, we were talking in the press box at Gillette about how Josh McDaniels did such an amazing job prepping Matt Cassel and setting up the offense for him -- despite Kansas City being 3-0, Cassel is not playing well without McDaniels as his coordinator -- and I think we're seeing some of that with Orton. McDaniels may be a terrible manager when it comes to interpersonal skills, but the dude knows how to handle quarterbacks and design offense.

Rulon Velvet Jones
09-27-2010, 08:39 AM
How DARE you.

bendog
09-27-2010, 08:45 AM
Orton is throwing the ball as hard as "he" can throw it. Fixed it for you. Not a dis, but of the games on tv, don't ever confuse either of the mannings' arms or even brees' with Orton.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-27-2010, 08:46 AM
Orton is throwing the ball as hard as "he" can throw it. Fixed it for you. Not a dis, but of the games on tv, don't ever confuse either of the mannings' arms or even brees' with Orton.

/rolleyes

He can't even throw it 50 yards! lulz!

bendog
09-27-2010, 08:47 AM
he's decent. On his one pass back across the field, he came up low and away. Orton does not, never did, and never will have, an elite arm. Live with it.

55CrushEm
09-27-2010, 08:50 AM
he's decent. On his one pass back across the field, he came up low and away. Orton does not, never did, and never will have, an elite arm. Live with it.

And as such......you will always hate him, while at the same time continuing to have a raging boner for Beetus.

Live with it.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-27-2010, 08:52 AM
he's decent. On his one pass back across the field, he came up low and away. Orton does not, never did, and never will have, an elite arm. Live with it.

Okay. Yet he threw the ball 50 yards, hit his receiver perfectly in stride and on time in the back of the end zone. What does that make his arm? "Slightly-less-than-elite"? "Very good"?

Elite arm strength is overrated. It's only a good thing if you're smart with the football as well, and have a great deal of accuracy.

JaMarcus Russell has an elite arm, but he can't hit the broad side of a barn from inside the barn. How's that working out?

You do not need an "elite" arm to be successful. I'd say accuracy is about 100x more important.

Rock Chalk
09-27-2010, 08:55 AM
Okay. Yet he threw the ball 50 yards, hit his receiver perfectly in stride and on time in the back of the end zone. What does that make his arm? "Slightly-less-than-elite"? "Very good"?

Elite arm strength is overrated. It's only a good thing if you're smart with the football as well, and have a great deal of accuracy.

JaMarcus Russell has an elite arm, but he can't hit the broad side of a barn from inside the barn. How's that working out?

You do not need an "elite" arm to be successful. I'd say accuracy is about 100x more important.

The pass was 48 yard TD pass. Lloyd was 7 yards deep in the end zone. Orton was 7 yards behind the LOS. Thats a 62 yard strike.

Just saying./

SonOfLe-loLang
09-27-2010, 08:56 AM
The absolute hate for Orton is now bordering on ridiculous. One of those writers made a great point, if you pretend his first two years didnt exist (and substitute them with redshirt years if you will), he's been a pretty good quarterback.

bendog
09-27-2010, 08:57 AM
yes. Orton is a decent passer when he is in the pocket, can step up and deliver the ball. He can't throw on the run against his body of off the back foot. But him in Sanchez's or Flacco's situation, and he does very nicely. He takes pretty good care of the football.

the original link is to a jerkwad site, and this thread is an example of the 100 post rule. JFC!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-27-2010, 08:57 AM
The pass was 48 yard TD pass. Lloyd was 7 yards deep in the end zone. Orton was 7 yards behind the LOS. Thats a 62 yard strike.

Just saying./

An excellent point.

Noodle arm.

Rock Chalk
09-27-2010, 09:01 AM
yes. Orton is a decent passer when he is in the pocket, can step up and deliver the ball. He can't throw on the run against his body of off the back foot. But him in Sanchez's or Flacco's situation, and he does very nicely. He takes pretty good care of the football.

the original link is to a jerkwad site, and this thread is an example of the 100 post rule. JFC!

LOL. I can name exactly ONE QB in the history of the NFL that was able to do that without REGULARLY incompleting the pass or getting picked off. John effing Elway.

I know he was our QB but holding ANYONE up to that standard is absolutely ****ing ludicrous.

bendog
09-27-2010, 09:05 AM
Eli did it. Of course he pretty much cost it in the first qtr with boneheaded decisions. Look, just in case you missed it, homer. The reason the colts won was this guy named manning. the reason the broncs lost was NOT Orton. You people seemed determined to make Orton the next coming of Namath. Give it the F up. He's a good qb. Stupid thread, stupid homers.

ZachKC
09-27-2010, 09:05 AM
LOL. I can name exactly ONE QB in the history of the NFL that was able to do that without REGULARLY incompleting the pass or getting picked off. John effing Elway.

I know he was our QB but holding ANYONE up to that standard is absolutely ****ing ludicrous.

Yea, people have been saying silly things about QBs lately. Cassel of course deserves a lot of criticism but I got a kick out of someone blasting him for "not being able consistently throw the 40 yard out."

wtf?

lostknight
09-27-2010, 09:05 AM
The absolute hate for Orton is now bordering on ridiculous.

So is the absolute adoration.

ZachKC
09-27-2010, 09:06 AM
So is the absolute adoration.

That is funny, I don't see a lot of that. I see people giving him credit where it is due though.

Missouribronc
09-27-2010, 09:07 AM
yes. Orton is a decent passer when he is in the pocket, can step up and deliver the ball. He can't throw on the run against his body of off the back foot. But him in Sanchez's or Flacco's situation, and he does very nicely. He takes pretty good care of the football.

the original link is to a jerkwad site, and this thread is an example of the 100 post rule. JFC!

Football Outsiders is a "jerkwad site"?

Interesting.

Why? Because statistically Orton isn't that bad, and you can't deal?

55CrushEm
09-27-2010, 09:07 AM
So is the absolute adoration.

Certainly no more ridiculous than your adoration of Beetus.

Missouribronc
09-27-2010, 09:08 AM
Yea, people have been saying silly things about QBs lately. Cassel of course deserves a lot of criticism but I got a kick out of someone blasting him for "not being able consistently throw the 40 yard out."

wtf?

The 40-yard out route is a very important play in the NFL.

I like to see my team go tight, hold everyone in to block and run that play. Here's to getting seven seconds in the pocket.

Rock Chalk
09-27-2010, 09:09 AM
Eli did it. Of course he pretty much cost it in the first qtr with boneheaded decisions. Look, just in case you missed it, homer. The reason the colts won was this guy named manning. the reason the broncs lost was NOT Orton. You people seemed determined to make Orton the next coming of Namath. Give it the F up. He's a good qb. Stupid thread, stupid homers.

No one is making him the next Namath. But good ****ing god you are criticizing the dude because he cant throw it 40 yards down field on teh run across his body.

What the ****.

Missouribronc
09-27-2010, 09:10 AM
Namath really wasn't that good.

Just saying.

tsiguy96
09-27-2010, 09:12 AM
wait, we are still questioning ortons arm strength?

Pony Boy
09-27-2010, 09:17 AM
Here's the problem:
476 yards should = 38 points
When 476 yards = 13 points there is a problem, it could be OB play, coaching, rushing, red zone play calling..... whatever it needs to identified and addressed.

tsiguy96
09-27-2010, 09:30 AM
Here's the problem:
476 yards should = 38 points
When 476 yards = 13 points there is a problem, it could be OB play, coaching, rushing, red zone play calling..... whatever it needs to identified and addressed.

when 476 yards = 13 pts with ZERO turnovers in red zone (minus punt), thats when there is a lot of stuff taht needs to be addressed, and im sure they will.

mkporter
09-27-2010, 09:36 AM
yes. Orton is a decent passer when he is in the pocket, can step up and deliver the ball. He can't throw on the run against his body of off the back foot. But him in Sanchez's or Flacco's situation, and he does very nicely. He takes pretty good care of the football.

the original link is to a jerkwad site, and this thread is an example of the 100 post rule. JFC!

You have no idea what you are talking about. Football outsiders is a great site. They provide better insight into the game then 95% of the writers out there. They have many prominent followers in the league, and those who cover it.

fontaine
09-27-2010, 09:46 AM
McDaniels may be a terrible manager when it comes to interpersonal skills, but the dude knows how to handle quarterbacks and design offense.


McDaniels deserves credit for this but that's who he was when we hired him!

A very good offensive coordinator when it comes to QBs and the passing game.

What he needs to show as the head coach of this team is being able to do well in the other areas like bringing together a solid running game with all the resources spent there and continue to build our 3-4 defense starting with finally getting some DL help.

Until he can do those things, he's just another offensive coordinator that couldn't be a head coach.

ColoradoDarin
09-27-2010, 09:53 AM
You have no idea what you are talking about. Football outsiders is a great site. They provide better insight into the game then 95% of the writers out there. They have many prominent followers in the league, and those who cover it.

They are jerks though. Full on sanctimonious jerks. They do have some great different stats and interesting ways of looking at things, but they do come across as condescending know-it-alls.

Popps
09-27-2010, 10:08 AM
Denver was within 20 five times and came away with no touchdowns, which was pretty much the difference in the game

There you go. We had our chances, and still kept the game close.

Would have been interesting to see this game played with Doom and Moreno healthy.

mkporter
09-27-2010, 10:09 AM
They are jerks though. Full on sanctimonious jerks. They do have some great different stats and interesting ways of looking at things, but they do come across as condescending know-it-alls.

I've never really gotten that impression from them, I find most of their humor to be pretty funny, but I suppose that is personal taste. They do have a lot of interesting, and usually objective insight, which is typically lacking in pretty much all of the other mainstream NFL coverage.

mkporter
09-27-2010, 10:13 AM
Denver was within 20 five times and came away with no touchdowns, which was pretty much the difference in the game

There you go. We had our chances, and still kept the game close.

Would have been interesting to see this game played with Doom and Moreno healthy.

Colts weren't exactly at full strength either, though. They had injuries along the oline, and 2 WRs out of commission. Bob Sanders was also out, but that is really the norm, not the exception with him. Peyton also seemed to be dealing with some sort of head injury causing a lot of swelling in the forehead area.;D

chawknz
09-27-2010, 10:20 AM
when 476 yards = 13 pts with ZERO turnovers in red zone (minus punt), thats when there is a lot of stuff taht needs to be addressed, and im sure they will.

That is my biggest disappointment right there. That many yards with that many points it's just sad and inexcusable. Whatever the issue is, it needs to be fixed. Immediately.

Br0nc0Buster
09-27-2010, 10:22 AM
Colts weren't exactly at full strength either, though. They had injuries along the oline, and 2 WRs out of commission. Bob Sanders was also out, but that is really the norm, not the exception with him. Peyton also seemed to be dealing with some sort of head injury causing a lot of swelling in the forehead area.;D

it really doesnt matter who they have at receiver with Peyton
they brought up a guy from the practice squad and he game in and the passing game didnt skip a beat

vancejohnson82
09-27-2010, 10:30 AM
we arent going to get that many shots inside the red zone against the titans next week...gotta make em count

baja
09-27-2010, 10:46 AM
#99 threw Manning down hard in the 1st quarter and I think he was rattled to a degree the rest of the game.

broncosteven
09-27-2010, 11:02 AM
when 476 yards = 13 pts with ZERO turnovers in red zone (minus punt), thats when there is a lot of stuff taht needs to be addressed, and im sure they will.

I hope they address giving the ball away on downs 3 times in one game.

Cito Pelon
09-27-2010, 11:09 AM
LOL. I can name exactly ONE QB in the history of the NFL that was able to do that without REGULARLY incompleting the pass or getting picked off. John effing Elway.

I know he was our QB but holding ANYONE up to that standard is absolutely ****ing ludicrous.

Keep in mind bendog is in California's Folsom max lockup . . . .

Cito Pelon
09-27-2010, 11:13 AM
Here's the problem:
476 yards should = 38 points
When 476 yards = 13 points there is a problem, it could be OB play, coaching, rushing, red zone play calling..... whatever it needs to identified and addressed.

Yup.

gtown
09-27-2010, 11:46 AM
#99 threw Manning down hard in the 1st quarter and I think he was rattled to a degree the rest of the game.

That was Vickerson, who has looked pretty good.

Missouribronc
09-27-2010, 12:08 PM
That was Vickerson, who has looked pretty good.

Ayers is the one who actually got to him.

That got lost in a lot of everything yesterday. The Outsiders talked about Denver getting pressure out of pretty simple schemes, and Ayers was a part of that all day.

BroncoLifer
09-27-2010, 12:12 PM
You do not need an "elite" arm to be successful. I'd say accuracy is about 100x more important.

Joe Montana agrees.

JoRo
09-27-2010, 12:26 PM
Football Outsiders is a "jerkwad site"?

Interesting.

Why? Because statistically Orton isn't that bad, and you can't deal?

I was wondering the same thing. And that whole thread other than the link and my reasoning for posting was from the site. So I don't understand the 100 post thing mentioned above?


I found it worth mentioning because so many Bronco fans view the team either black (we suck all is lost Orton=teh SUCK) or White (McDaniels=teh God, all your base are belong to us) so I thought it would be good to see the view of FO, since they basically haven't commented about Denver at all this year to date.

baja
09-27-2010, 12:36 PM
I was wondering the same thing. And that whole thread other than the link and my reasoning for posting was from the site. So I don't understand the 100 post thing mentioned above?


I found it worth mentioning because so many Bronco fans view the team either black (we suck all is lost Orton=teh SUCK) or White (McDaniels=teh God, all your base are belong to us) so I thought it would be good to see the view of FO, since they basically haven't commented about Denver at all this year to date.

There is no such rule thanks for the thread & link it was interesting.

bendog
09-27-2010, 12:51 PM
yeah, sorry, but seriously saying orton is throwing the ball as hard as it can be thrown, and that he should maybe take something off of it .... holy crap. If I hadn't used fixodent this morning, I'd have lost my teeth. But, again, orton's a good nfl qb. Den's problems are not really about him. The jets, dolphins, ravens, and chiefs all have legit shots at the playoffs, and imo he'd be a qb upgrade for any of those teams.