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View Full Version : What Are Your Thoughts On Short Yardage Situations?


RhymesayersDU
09-26-2010, 09:56 PM
So let me preface what I'm about to say: This thread is not to be taken as me bashing McDaniels specifically. This thread applies to many, many, NFL teams. Was this thread prompted by today's 4 tries from the 1-yard line? Yes, it was. But even in this young NFL season, I've seen other teams do the same thing. I just didn't post about it. So hold off on flaming me as anti-McDaniels if you can.

Why are head coaches and offensive coordinators so painfully uncreative when dealing with short yardage situations? I'm talking 3rd/4th and 1 or any play inside the 2 yard line. All these coaches do the exact same thing. They line up in the power formation, they completely telegraph what they're going to do, and in many times they get stuffed.

Like I said, not just McD today. The Phins stonewalled Adrian Peterson last week at the goal line a couple times. I've seen some other teams get shut down in similar situations.

I just don't know why OC's are so scared to mix in a play action in one of these situations. It's become a major pet peeve of mine, it really has. If everybody in the stadium knows what you're going to do, it's going to be pretty hard to do it.

On the other hand, I realize a couple things:
1) Fundamentally, your offensive line needs to be able to move the defensive line 1-yard whenever they want to be good in this league. I understand that from a philosophical point of view.
2) In the example of Adrian Peterson, you want to give the ball to your best player. I understand that as well.
3) I realize that there are many times that the strategy does work, and we only remember the times that get stuffed. That's a human bias, and I get that as well. Nobody says "wow, what a great 1 yard run!" They always say "wow, what a great defensive stop!" when the defense holds.

But still, I think it's ridiculous to basically tell the defense what you're going to do and then expect to execute it. I really do. Maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion. Maybe my frustration with that sequence @ Invesco today is making me more upset than I should be. Again, I just think that lining up in a power formation and telling the other 11 men on the field "hey, we're running it" is a ridiculous strategy. Not just for the Broncos, but any other team.

Thoughts?

KevinJames
09-26-2010, 09:58 PM
Kick some damn FGs or bring in Tebow lol

we coulda really used Moreno jumping over the pile today = /

SoCalBronco
09-26-2010, 10:00 PM
http://themilehighsalute.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/peytonhillis.jpg

strafen
09-26-2010, 10:02 PM
http://themilehighsalute.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/peytonhillis.jpg

This! LOL

SoCalBronco
09-26-2010, 10:03 PM
This! LOL

Yeah...I thought that would go over well. ;D

OBF1
09-26-2010, 10:04 PM
http://themilehighsalute.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/peytonhillis.jpg

f a g

Dagmar
09-26-2010, 10:05 PM
Moreno is a good short yardage back. So is that 0 & 3 white dude in the post above.

SoCalBronco
09-26-2010, 10:10 PM
Moreno is a good short yardage back. So is that 0 & 3 white dude in the post above.

Dude...Moreno isn't that good in short yardage. He's elusive and is a weapon in the passing game, but he has real issues on the goalline. It's not all his fault, but he's not exactly a atud in that area.

Hillis on the other hand went off for 140 yards against the Ravens...and yes, the Browns lost, but so what..its the Browns. San Jose State lost to Alabama too...I'm not sure why that would be blamed on SJ State's good players....its SJ State and its Alabama, what are you expecting exactly.

If it wasn't for Hillis, Cleveland wouldn't have covered, which for them, is just as good as a win.

I want to believe in Moreno and all, despite his extremely annoying style of running with his endless and often times unnecessary dancing, and he IS talented, but let's not make fun of guys who just had more yards rushing in one game against a great team than our boy has had the whole season. Glass houses, folks.

KevinJames
09-26-2010, 10:15 PM
Moreno is a tough runner, and he was severely missed today.

Dagmar
09-26-2010, 10:16 PM
Dude...Moreno isn't that good in short yardage. He's elusive and is a weapon in the passing game, but he has real issues on the goalline. It's not all his fault, but he's not exactly a atud in that area.

Hillis on the other hand went off for 140 yards against the Ravens...and yes, the Browns lost, but so what..its the Browns. San Jose State lost to Alabama too...I'm not sure why that would be blamed on SJ State's good players....its SJ State and its Alabama, what are you expecting exactly.

If it wasn't for Hillis, Cleveland wouldn't have covered, which for them, is just as good as a win.

I want to believe in Moreno and all, despite his extremely annoying style of running with his endless and often times unnecessary dancing, and he IS talented, but let's not make fun of guys who just had more yards rushing in one game against a great team than our boy has had the whole season. Glass houses, folks.

Don't you dude me sir. No seriously, Hillis looked excellent today. I fully believe we win today with a healthy Knowshon, he's exactly what we needed today, an outlet. I don't get why Hillis was held back in Shanny's offense to a FB role, nor why he was so poor last year, but I wish him well.

Don't get all quinn insulty, Orton had a rough preseason last year too.

strafen
09-26-2010, 10:19 PM
Yeah...I thought that would go over well. ;DPeople will resent that.
They don't know how to take it, and won't admit what a huge mistake that was... :strong:

SoCalBronco
09-26-2010, 10:20 PM
Don't you dude me sir. No seriously, Hillis looked excellent today. I fully believe we win today with a healthy Knowshon, he's exactly what we needed today, an outlet. I don't get why Hillis was held back in Shanny's offense to a FB role, nor why he was so poor last year, but I wish him well.

Don't get all quinn insulty, Orton had a rough preseason last year too.

I fail to see why you brought up Brady Quinn since he didn't play in the game and we weren't otherwise talking about soft core B movie gay porn.

Other than that..good points, Dag. BTW...I'm glad that you are Dagmar, again. Way back in the beginning, in 04 and maybe 05, I liked Dagmar ALOT. You were eager to learn and funny and showed us pictures of your super hot wife (still jealous). Rusty was kind of an a-hole to be honest, but I like you much better as Dagmar.

;D

Dagmar
09-26-2010, 10:26 PM
I fail to see why you brought up Brady Quinn since he didn't play in the game and we weren't otherwise talking about soft core B movie gay porn.

Other than that..good points, Dag. BTW...I'm glad that you are Dagmar, again. Way back in the beginning, in 04 and maybe 05, I liked Dagmar ALOT. You were eager to learn and funny and showed us pictures of your super hot wife (still jealous). Rusty was kind of an a-hole to be honest, but I like you much better as Dagmar.

;D

I like to refer to those as my "douchey" years. I felt a sigh of relief when I transitioned back to Dagmar. (tell your boss, he still hates)


That minx became a doctor two weeks ago!

SoCalBronco
09-26-2010, 10:29 PM
I like to refer to those as my "douchey" years. I felt a sigh of relief when I transitioned back to Dagmar. (tell your boss, he still hates)

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs092.snc4/35957_455377556387_670716387_6143734_4546462_n.jpg

That minx became a doctor two weeks ago!

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/adawofl/drooling_homer-712749.png

Impressive.

Congrats on your spouse getting her doctorate....an excellent achievement! :thumbsup:

Dagmar
09-26-2010, 10:33 PM
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/adawofl/drooling_homer-712749.png

Impressive.

Congrats on your spouse getting her doctorate....an excellent achievement! :thumbsup:

Neuroscience. Doing autism research here in Denver. And yes, the same lass who when I came home from work on Tuesday asked "what are you doing on October 17th?" My response of "I have no idea what I am doing today!" was met with, well, you will be watching the Broncos pound Rex Ryans's Jets!

:yayaya:

SoCalBronco
09-26-2010, 10:42 PM
Neuroscience. Doing autism research here in Denver. And yes, the same lass who when I came home from work on Tuesday asked "what are you doing on October 17th?" My response of "I have no idea what I am doing today!" was met with, well, you will be watching the Broncos pound Rex Ryans's Jets!
:yayaya:

WTF. NOT FAIR!!! THIS IS GARBAGE.

Ok Dag, so let me see if I've got this straight.

You came to this country 6 years ago.

In that short period of time, you snagged this gem, who's 1) super hot and 2) obviously super smart and 3) counts down to big Broncos games, 4) you live in Denver, which from the few times I've been there for camp, looks like an absolutely wonderful place to live.

On the other hand, I'm stuck in Los Angeles with.......my right hand?

Advantage: Dagmar.

Dammit. ROFL!

Dagmar
09-26-2010, 11:02 PM
I am a lucky guy. She hates Phillip Rivers more that i thought was possible.

extralife
09-26-2010, 11:32 PM
Take a play from the ol' Shanny (or Kubiak, really) book and run some misdirection.

Clockwork Orange
09-27-2010, 12:41 AM
My thoughts on our short yardage situation?

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Rock Chalk
09-27-2010, 02:54 AM
We have about 10 different kick ass goal line pass plays that have worked consistently why the eff didn't we use them?

fontaine
09-27-2010, 03:50 AM
Our OL right now doesn't look like getting good leverage on running plays.

Guys in the interior get stood up at the line up of scrimmage instead of steering their defenders back or sideways. As a result our RBs simply don't have clear running lanes on the inside.

The guys don't get to the 2nd level fast enough to clear out LBers for our RBs.

On outside plays smaller guys like Royal/Gaffney aren't going to clear out safeties, so DBs find it easier to get up to the line of scrimmage and take down the RBs.

Pretty much top to bottom we're a poor running team and that's not going to change over a few weeks or with Kuper/Harris being back. They may improve it slightly but we're among the worst teams right now.

beanerbronco
09-27-2010, 07:46 AM
Take a play from the ol' Shanny (or Kubiak, really) book and run some misdirection.

Kubiak, maybe. Shanny's team couldn't even beat the rams. Had it not been for their loss last night, all the Shanny fans would've been here posting their weekly Shanny >>>>>>>> McD threads lol

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-27-2010, 07:57 AM
So let me preface what I'm about to say: This thread is not to be taken as me bashing McDaniels specifically. This thread applies to many, many, NFL teams. Was this thread prompted by today's 4 tries from the 1-yard line? Yes, it was. But even in this young NFL season, I've seen other teams do the same thing. I just didn't post about it. So hold off on flaming me as anti-McDaniels if you can.

Why are head coaches and offensive coordinators so painfully uncreative when dealing with short yardage situations? I'm talking 3rd/4th and 1 or any play inside the 2 yard line. All these coaches do the exact same thing. They line up in the power formation, they completely telegraph what they're going to do, and in many times they get stuffed.

Like I said, not just McD today. The Phins stonewalled Adrian Peterson last week at the goal line a couple times. I've seen some other teams get shut down in similar situations.

I just don't know why OC's are so scared to mix in a play action in one of these situations. It's become a major pet peeve of mine, it really has. If everybody in the stadium knows what you're going to do, it's going to be pretty hard to do it.

On the other hand, I realize a couple things:
1) Fundamentally, your offensive line needs to be able to move the defensive line 1-yard whenever they want to be good in this league. I understand that from a philosophical point of view.
2) In the example of Adrian Peterson, you want to give the ball to your best player. I understand that as well.
3) I realize that there are many times that the strategy does work, and we only remember the times that get stuffed. That's a human bias, and I get that as well. Nobody says "wow, what a great 1 yard run!" They always say "wow, what a great defensive stop!" when the defense holds.

But still, I think it's ridiculous to basically tell the defense what you're going to do and then expect to execute it. I really do. Maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion. Maybe my frustration with that sequence @ Invesco today is making me more upset than I should be. Again, I just think that lining up in a power formation and telling the other 11 men on the field "hey, we're running it" is a ridiculous strategy. Not just for the Broncos, but any other team.

Thoughts?

There are my thoughts on the matter.

Ever since these players were little, they've been fed this idea that if you can't move the pile 1 yard, you don't deserve to win. Coaches are fed this business too, and it's become sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. You MUST move the pile. Period. And right now, we simply aren't.

I'd like to see more creativity near the goal line as well, and this is one of the reasons I was surprised that Tebow was the third quarterback for this game. TSI, I know this is tough for you to wrap your mind around, but he would have helped in the short yardage situations we found ourselves in today. I'm not calling McDaniels stupid, I'm not saying anything of the sort. But we do have one of the ultimate weapons in the NFL, who is especially effective for the situations we found ourselves in yesterday, and we didn't use him. That, to me, is somewhat vexing.

Vic and Gary were discussing it this morning, and one of them mentioned the idea of putting three wide instead of stacking the line. The reason: QB and RB don't block anyone, so you're looking at, essentially, 11-on-9 at the line, and the offense is on the wrong side of that equation. Spread them three wide, and then run out of that formation, you've got more people spread out over more space, and conceivably more holes.

Finally, I would like to see more play action near the goal line. Indy sold out against the PA all day long, and we didn't use ANY of it down near the goal line. That was astounding to me.

I understand the idea of wanting to move the pile, to get one yard, to be a man and get it in. But we are not the power offense that we want to be, yet. I think in time we'll get there; things may change immensely once we have our full OL healthy and fit. But for right now, we're still a finesse team, and we need to find ways to score that fit our profile as a finesse team.

Ramming into a wall on whatever-and-goal isn't a finesse play.

gyldenlove
09-27-2010, 08:00 AM
I am a lucky guy. She hates Phillip Rivers more that i thought was possible.

Oh that is not healthy, Philips Rivers takes the concept of despicable to a whole new level so hating him that much has to be dangerous in some way.

gyldenlove
09-27-2010, 08:08 AM
So let me preface what I'm about to say: This thread is not to be taken as me bashing McDaniels specifically. This thread applies to many, many, NFL teams. Was this thread prompted by today's 4 tries from the 1-yard line? Yes, it was. But even in this young NFL season, I've seen other teams do the same thing. I just didn't post about it. So hold off on flaming me as anti-McDaniels if you can.

Why are head coaches and offensive coordinators so painfully uncreative when dealing with short yardage situations? I'm talking 3rd/4th and 1 or any play inside the 2 yard line. All these coaches do the exact same thing. They line up in the power formation, they completely telegraph what they're going to do, and in many times they get stuffed.

Like I said, not just McD today. The Phins stonewalled Adrian Peterson last week at the goal line a couple times. I've seen some other teams get shut down in similar situations.

I just don't know why OC's are so scared to mix in a play action in one of these situations. It's become a major pet peeve of mine, it really has. If everybody in the stadium knows what you're going to do, it's going to be pretty hard to do it.

On the other hand, I realize a couple things:
1) Fundamentally, your offensive line needs to be able to move the defensive line 1-yard whenever they want to be good in this league. I understand that from a philosophical point of view.
2) In the example of Adrian Peterson, you want to give the ball to your best player. I understand that as well.
3) I realize that there are many times that the strategy does work, and we only remember the times that get stuffed. That's a human bias, and I get that as well. Nobody says "wow, what a great 1 yard run!" They always say "wow, what a great defensive stop!" when the defense holds.

But still, I think it's ridiculous to basically tell the defense what you're going to do and then expect to execute it. I really do. Maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion. Maybe my frustration with that sequence @ Invesco today is making me more upset than I should be. Again, I just think that lining up in a power formation and telling the other 11 men on the field "hey, we're running it" is a ridiculous strategy. Not just for the Broncos, but any other team.

Thoughts?

I agree, I have noticed we are very prone to lining up in the goal line formation any time it is 3rd and short or a goal to go situation, last year we did at time send out a spread formation which I like because you give the other team the option of either try to prevent the pass by rushing or open up the draw play going to the outside/inside whichever is not heavily manned.

In light of how inefficient our run game has been, especially yesterday I really don't understand the run plays on short situations at all, I would much rather open it up and try routes to the outside or a smoke route, we have actually had success with those.

I understand why a lot of teams are not fond of running playfakes in those situations, it takes longer to get the ball out and you know the other team is going to rush 7 guys so it is very risky, you risk losing a lot of yards on the sack or the strip fumble which can be returned all the way.

You are right that offensive coordinators and head coaches need to get away from this mentality of always sending out the goal to go guys, you can do it if you have a really good running team that can power in more often than not, but if you like us are challenged in the rushing department you are better off sending out your base formation and playing it like it was just another down.

spdirty
09-27-2010, 08:31 AM
On 1st and 2nd I would have run it up the gut, but on 3rd stick Tebow in there, go 5 wide and give him a run-pass option. Thats what I would have done. Whether or not it would have worked I don't know, but at least it would have been creative and fun.

Rohirrim
09-27-2010, 08:57 AM
I remember, back in the day, when Shanahan used to go with the shotgun in that situation. Of course, he had Elway, that Oline, Sharpe, TD and Howard Griffith, but I'm just saying. ;D

Cito Pelon
09-27-2010, 09:36 AM
McD has a penchant for trying to make a statement with the short yardage running game. I understand the reasoning behind that, but you absolutely have to mix it up sometimes inside the five. Do some play-action on first down sometimes, do something other than run it up the gut. Jebus, unbelievable. Do SOMETHING different on first and goal. Anything, fer chrissake.

meangene
09-27-2010, 10:38 AM
McD has a penchant for trying to make a statement with the short yardage running game. I understand the reasoning behind that, but you absolutely have to mix it up sometimes inside the five. Do some play-action on first down sometimes, do something other than run it up the gut. Jebus, unbelievable. Do SOMETHING different on first and goal. Anything, fer chrissake.

Or at least spread the formation to give the defense something else to think about. I don't mind running it inside but not over and over from a goal line formation.

Tombstone RJ
09-27-2010, 10:42 AM
The way you run on a defense like the colts is straight up the middle, between the tackles. You don't run it outside.

When Larsen pulled up lame, I'm wondering if this forced the Broncos to run it more outside. I don't know. However, running it up the middle is the way you beat a small, fast defense and the Broncos "seemed" to get away from doing that by having the RBs go outside.

Inside the 20, the power running game has to pay off. At the very least, it must force the opposing LBers to commit to the run, once they do this, Orton should be able to find an open receiver somewhere.

Beantown Bronco
09-27-2010, 11:02 AM
When Larsen pulled up lame, I'm wondering if this forced the Broncos to run it more outside.

Here's another potential candidate for the honorary Boss Bailey "can't seem to stay on the field" award.

The Moops
09-27-2010, 01:51 PM
Tebow!

gtown
09-27-2010, 02:16 PM
Play calling lost this game. Where is the play action? Perhaps a bootleg with Orton? Where are the throws to the TE? Can we throw anything else but a fade route into the corner? McD doesn't have to prove a point at the two yard line. Points are points.