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bronco militia
09-22-2010, 02:06 PM
Despite contract terms with more than one team, no Vincent Jackson trade

Posted by Mike Florio on September 22, 2010 4:03 PM ET

The deadline for trading receiver Vincent Jackson has come and gone, and the player remains the property of the Chargers.

Agent Neil Schwartz tells us that he had worked out with more than one team an acceptable contract for Jackson, and that the deal did not get done.

Schwartz blames the lack of a deal on the Chargers' demands.

"Other General Managers felt that the Chargers were being totally unreasonable," Schwartz told us by phone.

"Archie Manning had it right about this organization," Schwartz said.

UPDATE: Schwartz's partner, Jonathan Feinsod, offered up a similar quote to ESPN's Adam Schefter. "Archie Manning had it right," Feinsod said. "They call [G.M. A.J. Smith] the Lord of No Rings for a reason."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/09/22/despite-contract-terms-with-more-than-one-team-no-vincent-jackson-trade/

Black96WS6
09-22-2010, 02:09 PM
What a surprise, an agent\player tries to hold a team hostage and for a change the team stands up to the prima donna. Glad to hear it.

And resorting to personal attacks, that's professional. Sounds like the agent is pretty bitter...their plan backfired!

Tombstone RJ
09-22-2010, 02:09 PM
bah Humbug... V.J. and the media are acting like scorned lovers. Fact is V.J. has no power in his current contract and he took a huge gamble and lost.

Not sure why everyone wants to dump on Smith. He's the guy who built the current team (a very talented team) and V.J. is the dummy who played russian roulette and lost...

SouthStndJunkie
09-22-2010, 02:11 PM
"We had multiple offers and the Chargers squashed them all," Jonathan Feinsod, one of Jackson's agents, said.

The Minnesota Vikings were willing to give up a second-round draft choice and an additional conditional pick to the Chargers, a source said. Another source said Jackson had even worked out a financial package with the Vikings.

boltaneer
09-22-2010, 02:11 PM
Wow. Schwartz must be real butt-hurt to go off and make those kind of comments!

Should have signed the tender, dummy.

SouthStndJunkie
09-22-2010, 02:12 PM
I think I would have taken a 2 and some change from Minnesota and been rid of the distraction.

bronco militia
09-22-2010, 02:12 PM
AJ Smeagol

eddie mac
09-22-2010, 02:13 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but if a CBA is agreed between now and 2011, V-Jax is a UFA so he'll walk for nothing if they dont trade him. TBH if a player is finished with his team I'd rather get something in return rather than zero.

Kaylore
09-22-2010, 02:15 PM
As long as he doesn't play for the Chargers then I'm happy. The longer they wait the less compensation they'll get.

Tombstone RJ
09-22-2010, 02:16 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but if a CBA is agreed between now and 2011, V-Jax is a UFA so he'll walk for nothing if they dont trade him. TBH if a player is finished with his team I'd rather get something in return rather than zero.

I think that is a huge assumption. Since no new CBA has been agreed to, how can you determine anything about current contracts?

Owners can negotiate grandfathered in contracts no? That is, all current contracts remain as is, all future contracts negotiated are under the new CBA rules...

Black96WS6
09-22-2010, 02:17 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but if a CBA is agreed between now and 2011, V-Jax is a UFA so he'll walk for nothing if they dont trade him. TBH if a player is finished with his team I'd rather get something in return rather than zero.

They'll get a comp pick depending on the value of VJ's new deal with his new team...

eddie mac
09-22-2010, 02:21 PM
I think that is a huge assumption. Since no new CBA has been agreed to, how can you determine anything about current contracts?
Owners can negotiate grandfathered in contracts no? That is, all current contracts remain as is, all future contracts negotiated are under the new CBA rules...

NFL rules determine that, I dont. If there's no CBA players like Jackson retain the same status they had this year until they have 6 accredited seasons under their belt, but that is regardless anyway because if there's no CBA there'll be no football in 2011. Which means a player like Jackson might not play a down for 2 seasons.

eddie mac
09-22-2010, 02:22 PM
They'll get a comp pick depending on the value of VJ's new deal with his new team...

You'd only get that though if you have a surplus of free agents leaving rather than signing for you regardless of his deal.

Rohirrim
09-22-2010, 02:22 PM
AJ Smeagol

Ha!

Let me warm my hands on reports of the dysfunctional Bolts.

Tombstone RJ
09-22-2010, 02:22 PM
NFL rules determine that, I dont. If there's no CBA players like Jackson retain the same status they had this year until they have 6 accredited seasons under their belt, but that is regardless anyway because if there's no CBA there'll be no football in 2011. Which means a player like Jackson might not play a down for 2 seasons.

fair enough...

SouthStndJunkie
09-22-2010, 02:32 PM
For a minute I thought this was a thread dedicated to Dan Marino.

bronco militia
09-22-2010, 02:35 PM
For a minute I thought this was a thread dedicated to Dan Marino.

:strong:

Inkana7
09-22-2010, 02:37 PM
Oh, I thought this was a LeBron James thread. Carry on.

DivineBronco
09-22-2010, 02:39 PM
AJ is also the guy who so badly needs to be THE man that he brought in a coach who can't win the big game but who will always always always defer to him.

missingnumber7
09-22-2010, 02:48 PM
For a minute I thought this was a thread dedicated to Dan Marino.

Even Dan has something he can hold over AJ...that is the trip to the super bowl...or the play off wins.

Hercules Rockefeller
09-22-2010, 03:02 PM
You'd only get that though if you have a surplus of free agents leaving rather than signing for you regardless of his deal.

And it couldn't be higher than a 3rd

DomCasual
09-22-2010, 03:06 PM
Chargers + A deal in which no one will win = Fun for the whole family.

theAPAOps5
09-22-2010, 03:13 PM
What a surprise, an agent\player tries to hold a team hostage and for a change the team stands up to the prima donna. Glad to hear it.

And resorting to personal attacks, that's professional. Sounds like the agent is pretty bitter...their plan backfired!

Yeah the Billionaire's are so innocent and the Millionaire's are the enemy. Lord of No Rings is AWESOME!

VJ is guilty too but that douche GM is the bigger problem.

Black96WS6
09-22-2010, 03:21 PM
Yeah the Billionaire's are so innocent and the Millionaire's are the enemy. Lord of No Rings is AWESOME!

VJ is guilty too but that douche GM is the bigger problem.

The sad thing is if VJ hadn't of gotten those multiple DUIs as well as getting arrested the day of the playoff game, he probably would have been in the Chargers' long term plans...

theAPAOps5
09-22-2010, 03:31 PM
The sad thing is if VJ hadn't of gotten those multiple DUIs as well as getting arrested the day of the playoff game, he probably would have been in the Chargers' long term plans...

That is a very valid point. But my point is if things were sour and not in long term plans then why did Chargers dick around with him then.

kappys
09-22-2010, 03:37 PM
While I think its somewhat commendable that they didn't trade VJ because they didn't get an offer they thought was fair I do have to say that AJ is completely deluded regarding VJ's worth. He is not Brandon Marshall so if AJ really turned down a 2nd plus a later pick he's nuts.

Atwater His Ass
09-22-2010, 03:38 PM
The Chargers are well within their rights to do what they're doing. Good for them and touugh **** for VJ. I don't fault him for the play he tried to make, but it backfired and now he has to deal with the consequences.

Next decision is if he's going to get of his pity pot and sign a deal so he can get in the minimum 6 games to acure another season towards free agency.

boltaneer
09-22-2010, 03:39 PM
That is a very valid point. But my point is if things were sour and not in long term plans then why did Chargers dick around with him then.

They don't want to give him a long term deal but since they have the rights to him this year, they want him to play this year out or trade him for the price they set.

Minnesota didn't reach the price they wanted but came close. I think they should have taken the deal but we'll see if it pays off or not. Maybe they or another team gets more desperate before the week 8 trade deadline.

This is such a non-issue for this season though. He wasn't going to be playing this year anyway.

boltaneer
09-22-2010, 03:41 PM
While I think its somewhat commendable that they didn't trade VJ because they didn't get an offer they thought was fair I do have to say that AJ is completely deluded regarding VJ's worth. He is not Brandon Marshall so if AJ really turned down a 2nd plus a later pick he's nuts.

If Marshall was worth two 2nd round picks, a 2nd and a 3rd is completely fair for Jackson.

zdoor
09-22-2010, 03:43 PM
Lord of No rings is some funny shiat....

kappys
09-22-2010, 03:43 PM
If Marshall was worth two 2nd round picks, a 2nd and a 3rd is completely fair for Jackson.

Agreed but what was Minny offering a 2nd plus a conditional ? What was the floor or requirements of that condition. To me that says it all esp with the guy doming off suspension. I think a floor of a 5th and max of 3rd would be pretty fair.

That One Guy
09-22-2010, 03:45 PM
If AJ crumbles here, he faces this problem in the future when someone gets upset about their contract. Don't you think Chargers next year will consider this point when their agent whispers "holdout" again?

Remember, we just had Revis sign a good sized contract to fix the impass and he said two years from now he might do it again. Catering to a crybaby does nothing but show them their technique works and they'll continue to return to that pot.

That One Guy
09-22-2010, 03:50 PM
Agreed but what was Minny offering a 2nd plus a conditional ? What was the floor or requirements of that condition. To me that says it all esp with the guy doming off suspension. I think a floor of a 5th and max of 3rd would be pretty fair.

No matter what happens, there's no immediate benefit to the Chargers by trading him. AJ may have just been calling the bluff thinking Minny was going to use the Chargers' position against them. If VJ was their answer and Minny only offered a 2nd and a 4th instead of a 2nd and a 3rd... that's idiocy on Minny's part to lose the trade over the difference in value of a 3rd to a 4th. For that point, if Minny wanted him bad enough, they'd have come up. Since the trade deadline is so far away, AJ might think they still will.

gyldenlove
09-22-2010, 04:08 PM
If Marshall was worth two 2nd round picks, a 2nd and a 3rd is completely fair for Jackson.

That is the irony, the Marshall deal right now is fully determining what AJ Smith wants because if the Broncos got a better deal on Marshall than the Chargers get on Vincent Jackson he will be ridiculed, so he is stuck trying to trade a player with a suspension while generating bad press and causing a distraction.

I didn't much like the Marshall trade, but I have to say the aftermath is pretty good, making the Chuggers squirm is totally worth it.

boltaneer
09-22-2010, 04:22 PM
That is the irony, the Marshall deal right now is fully determining what AJ Smith wants because if the Broncos got a better deal on Marshall than the Chargers get on Vincent Jackson he will be ridiculed, so he is stuck trying to trade a player with a suspension while generating bad press and causing a distraction.

I didn't much like the Marshall trade, but I have to say the aftermath is pretty good, making the Chuggers squirm is totally worth it.

I don't think the Chargers are squirming. They haven't even issued a statement about all this today. Jackson and his agents are the ones who are throwing tantrums right now.

They've already moved on without him and it looks like the offense hasn't missed a beat (discounting the monsoon in KC).

Maybe the offense will struggle later on and Jackson will be vindicated but it doesn't seem that way.

---

BTW, no one knows how the next CBA will play out but the current CBA states that a player can't go from being restricted to unrestricted by holding out the entire season. And if there are still franchise tags in the new CBA, they can franchise him as well.

There's a possibility that the Chargers will still have his rights in 2012 (let's assume there's a lockout in 2011 because it look like we're heading that way).

Jackson is playing Russian roulette with his career. He really needs to fire his agents. The way this whole thing has played out for him, couldn't have gone any worse.

BroncoMan4ever
09-22-2010, 05:06 PM
What a surprise, an agent\player tries to hold a team hostage and for a change the team stands up to the prima donna. Glad to hear it.

And resorting to personal attacks, that's professional. Sounds like the agent is pretty bitter...their plan backfired!

normally i would completely agree with the statement here, however in the case of AJ Smith it is known league wide the kind of dickwad he is.

gyldenlove
09-22-2010, 05:31 PM
I don't think the Chargers are squirming. They haven't even issued a statement about all this today. Jackson and his agents are the ones who are throwing tantrums right now.

They've already moved on without him and it looks like the offense hasn't missed a beat (discounting the monsoon in KC).

Maybe the offense will struggle later on and Jackson will be vindicated but it doesn't seem that way.

---

BTW, no one knows how the next CBA will play out but the current CBA states that a player can't go from being restricted to unrestricted by holding out the entire season. And if there are still franchise tags in the new CBA, they can franchise him as well.

There's a possibility that the Chargers will still have his rights in 2012 (let's assume there's a lockout in 2011 because it look like we're heading that way).

Jackson is playing Russian roulette with his career. He really needs to fire his agents. The way this whole thing has played out for him, couldn't have gone any worse.

Given that the front office is talking trades with what appears to be at least 2 teams the organization is squirming despite what they may or may not say.

I wouldn't be celebrating about the offense just yet given they faced KC and a Jacksonville team that was in a hurry to get rid of the ball and allowed Orton 300 passing yards.

Actually there is no statement in the current CBA that states a restricted free agent can't become unrestricted by holding out, the only mechanism to that effect is that a player will not accrue a season towards free agency unless that player is available to the team for a minimum number of games.

Being that Jackson would qualify for unrestricted free agency under normal circumstances, and if the new CBA does not require players to accrue more than 4 seasons to achieve free agency he will be a free agent on the first day of the next league year when that day may be.

boltaneer
09-22-2010, 06:06 PM
Given that the front office is talking trades with what appears to be at least 2 teams the organization is squirming despite what they may or may not say.

I wouldn't be celebrating about the offense just yet given they faced KC and a Jacksonville team that was in a hurry to get rid of the ball and allowed Orton 300 passing yards.

Actually there is no statement in the current CBA that states a restricted free agent can't become unrestricted by holding out, the only mechanism to that effect is that a player will not accrue a season towards free agency unless that player is available to the team for a minimum number of games.

Being that Jackson would qualify for unrestricted free agency under normal circumstances, and if the new CBA does not require players to accrue more than 4 seasons to achieve free agency he will be a free agent on the first day of the next league year when that day may be.

I don't have a link for it but they've been talking about this 'clause' in the CBA here on the radio all day. Maybe they don't know what they're talking about but I've seen it being discussed on Chargers forums as well.

Remember, like I said above, they can franchise him still as well. They don't want to let him go for nothing so don't be surprised if they do slap the tag on him. The Chargers hold all the cards here especially because they can help control what team he winds up going to. (Notice that they were only talking with NFC teams.)

Steve Sewell
09-22-2010, 06:15 PM
Agents throwing a temper tantrum because they gave bad advice to a client and couldn't deliver, and aren't seeing a big payday for themselves? This is awesome. I hope Smith sticks to his guns. Those agents are total douchebags.

baja
09-22-2010, 06:26 PM
This is a two fold win for the Bronco fans.

1. A greedy agent and his client play their trump card, get called and lose their gamble = good for the league.

2. It was the Chargers that took the hit to prove a point = bad for the chargers season.

Dedhed
09-22-2010, 07:17 PM
The sad thing is if VJ hadn't of gotten those multiple DUIs as well as getting arrested the day of the playoff game, he probably would have been in the Chargers' long term plans...

And who, exactly, is that sad for again?

GoBroncos DownUnder
09-22-2010, 07:28 PM
If Marshall was worth two 2nd round picks, a 2nd and a 3rd is completely fair for Jackson.
Wow man?!? Don't do drugs, that's all I can say.
You ever see their stats?

Jackson has been in the league a year longer and will need 2 more years to catch as many balls as Marshall has NOW. And he's never caught 100 balls in a season. And you think that's comparative to Marshall?



I'm glad to see it though, as a Denver fan, I can honestly say AJ Smith is my hero!Hilarious!

tsiguy96
09-22-2010, 07:59 PM
Wow man?!? Don't do drugs, that's all I can say.
You ever see their stats?

Jackson has been in the league a year longer and will need 2 more years to catch as many balls as Marshall has NOW. And he's never caught 100 balls in a season. And you think that's comparative to Marshall?



I'm glad to see it though, as a Denver fan, I can honestly say AJ Smith is my hero!Hilarious!

as most football people will tell you, the number of balls you catch is not the entire, or even most important, story. marshall got fed the ball very often, even when he shouldnt have. vincent jackson was a field position/game changer. huge YPC that marshall will never see in his career.

briane
09-22-2010, 08:00 PM
I am happy that a team is finally not giving in to one of these crybaby WR's. Now maybe after his career goes down the crapper, more players will think twice before pulling that crap...

400HZ
09-22-2010, 08:09 PM
If AJ crumbles here, he faces this problem in the future when someone gets upset about their contract. Don't you think Chargers next year will consider this point when their agent whispers "holdout" again?

Remember, we just had Revis sign a good sized contract to fix the impass and he said two years from now he might do it again. Catering to a crybaby does nothing but show them their technique works and they'll continue to return to that pot.

Bingo. Plus San Diego can just franchise Jackson next season (if there is NFL football) and trade him from there. Or he can sit out another year and not get paid. He didn't have much leverage this season, and he'll have even less next year when he's broke. This was a good move for the league, and a good move for the Chargers beyond 2010.

boltaneer
09-22-2010, 09:58 PM
as most football people will tell you, the number of balls you catch is not the entire, or even most important, story. marshall got fed the ball very often, even when he shouldnt have. vincent jackson was a field position/game changer. huge YPC that marshall will never see in his career.

Agreed.

They're two completely different type of receivers. Jackson is a stretch the field, deep threat, jump ball type of receiver, while Marshall is perhaps the best run after catch guy in the league today. That's why he's fed the ball so much on short passes.

It's kind of hard to believe with his size and speed but Jackson is one of the worst YAC receivers out there.

Xenos
09-22-2010, 10:07 PM
NFL rules determine that, I dont. If there's no CBA players like Jackson retain the same status they had this year until they have 6 accredited seasons under their belt, but that is regardless anyway because if there's no CBA there'll be no football in 2011. Which means a player like Jackson might not play a down for 2 seasons.
Even if there is a new CBA, owners like Kraft and Spanos will not allow players like Mankins and VJ to get free for holding out on their team. I think the union is more than likely to throw three of their own under the bus to get something done especially when all the other RFA signed their tenders.

boltaneer
09-22-2010, 10:22 PM
It's going to be interesting to see how hard the players association fights for the Vincent Jacksons and Logan Mankins of the world.

There are going to be (many) more significant and more important negotiation points in the new CBA. I can't imagine this is going to be a big focus from the NFLPA's point of view.

JJJ
09-22-2010, 10:59 PM
normally i would completely agree with the statement here, however in the case of AJ Smith it is known league wide the kind of dillwad he is.

I think he is actually the only GM in the league you can actually trust what he says is what he is going to do. He set his prices for doing the deals with both Jackson and the other teams and simply stuck to them. Not overly dilwadish I would say.

Jackson massively eroded his worth from AJ's perspective with two moronic DUIs (when will these guys ever learn to call a cab) and almost being late for a playoff game by getting stopped by the cops.

The Bolts are a much better team with VJ, no doubt in my opinion and AJ knows that. But you can't pay everybody anyway so the risky guys don't get long term deals and they get less money even on the short term ones.

I don't think Rivers and Gates think he is a dilwad with their new contracts that are clearly on market. AJ is very predictable, has justified his actions, and has not played any games. Is it best for his team? In this case probably not. But AJ is still a GM I want on my team. The fans suffer a bit with AJ but hey we are Bolt fans and use to suffering.

Jackson will eventually go to a new team and win a SB within a few years just like Brees. SD will continue to win the West but not win the SB. The Chargers will win the SB only a few years after they move from SD. That is just the destiny of this team.

bronco militia
09-23-2010, 08:15 AM
http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/LOL-FACEPAINT.jpg

baja
09-23-2010, 08:21 AM
I think he is actually the only GM in the league you can actually trust what he says is what he is going to do. He set his prices for doing the deals with both Jackson and the other teams and simply stuck to them. Not overly dilwadish I would say.

Jackson massively eroded his worth from AJ's perspective with two moronic DUIs (when will these guys ever learn to call a cab) and almost being late for a playoff game by getting stopped by the cops.

The Bolts are a much better team with VJ, no doubt in my opinion and AJ knows that. But you can't pay everybody anyway so the risky guys don't get long term deals and they get less money even on the short term ones.

I don't think Rivers and Gates think he is a dilwad with their new contracts that are clearly on market. AJ is very predictable, has justified his actions, and has not played any games. Is it best for his team? In this case probably not. But AJ is still a GM I want on my team. The fans suffer a bit with AJ but hey we are Bolt fans and use to suffering.

Jackson will eventually go to a new team and win a SB within a few years just like Brees. SD will continue to win the West but not win the SB. The Chargers will win the SB only a few years after they move from SD. That is just the destiny of this team.

Very objective post and accurate IMO.

Mediator12
09-23-2010, 08:29 AM
The only thing this will do to the chargers is remind their younger players that they better be the best player on the team (highly Unlikely with Gates and Rivers signed long term) or they will not get market value in SD. It will also affect their rookies if the new CBA fails to set a wage scale. No agent will want to sign a long term deal with SD and will negotiate harder for a shorter deal.

I applaud the effort by AJ, but as usual he will be very comfortable doing things his way. Even at the long term expense of dealing with agents, and potentially affecting who will play for his teams.

400HZ
09-23-2010, 09:16 AM
The only thing this will do to the chargers is remind their younger players that they better be the best player on the team (highly Unlikely with Gates and Rivers signed long term) or they will not get market value in SD. It will also affect their rookies if the new CBA fails to set a wage scale. No agent will want to sign a long term deal with SD and will negotiate harder for a shorter deal.

I applaud the effort by AJ, but as usual he will be very comfortable doing things his way. Even at the long term expense of dealing with agents, and potentially affecting who will play for his teams.

BS. San Diego was not the only team to butt heads their 5th year RFA's. They just happened to get the most pub, having four players in that situation. Two of them signed, and two sat out. Are you contending that San Diego doesn't reward new contracts? Kris Dielman, Nick Hardwick, Luis Castillo, Quentin Jammer, Shaun Phillips, Stephen Cooper, Jyles Tucker, and Mike Scifres don't count? That's not counting LaDainian Tomlinson, Phillip Rivers, or Antonio Gates who became either the highest or damn close to the highest paid players at their positions in history. That record of doing business is probably better than Denver's.

Not everyone can be as frivolous as Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones.

gyldenlove
09-23-2010, 09:30 AM
BS. San Diego was not the only team to butt heads their 5th year RFA's. They just happened to get the most pub, having four players in that situation. Two of them signed, and two sat out. Are you contending that San Diego doesn't reward new contracts? Kris Dielman, Nick Hardwick, Luis Castillo, Quentin Jammer, Shaun Phillips, Stephen Cooper, Jyles Tucker, and Mike Scifres don't count? That's not counting LaDainian Tomlinson, Phillip Rivers, or Antonio Gates who became either the highest or damn close to the highest paid players at their positions in history. That record of doing business is probably better than Denver's.

Not everyone can be as frivolous as Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones.

So you are saying because they over a 6 year period have managed to sign 3 high profile players and 8 players ranging from backups to starters they have a solid record of doing business? that is a strong 2 players per year, I think some teams might be better than that.

Mediator12
09-23-2010, 09:47 AM
BS. San Diego was not the only team to butt heads their 5th year RFA's. They just happened to get the most pub, having four players in that situation. Two of them signed, and two sat out. Are you contending that San Diego doesn't reward new contracts? Kris Dielman, Nick Hardwick, Luis Castillo, Quentin Jammer, Shaun Phillips, Stephen Cooper, Jyles Tucker, and Mike Scifres don't count? That's not counting LaDainian Tomlinson, Phillip Rivers, or Antonio Gates who became either the highest or damn close to the highest paid players at their positions in history. That record of doing business is probably better than Denver's.

Not everyone can be as frivolous as Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones.

It is not BS, it is just you do not want to consider the ramifications of being a hard ass GM in the NFL. He had a hard decision to make on who to re-sign for sure with 4 players, but he even reduced their tenders when they chose to not re-sign at a higher tender.

I am contending that the players in that locker room are getting the message that they are expendable in SD unless they play for less than market value. I appreciate your list and then remind you those are role players and all are replaceable pieces in today's NFL. I mean OG, C, LB, and Punter! Come on, those are disposable positions in today's NFL hierarchy. Those are places you have to let go.

Jammer is the only one who is not and he had to decide between him and Cromartie. He already made that trade.

As for DEN, not the best place to compare your roster management decisions ;D There are certainly better teams that handle their rosters better than DEN. However, We appreciate the fact AJ is such a hardass. It makes SD just that much less intimidating having those 2 players not in youtr team and not getting anything back for them right away either.

Tombstone RJ
09-23-2010, 09:54 AM
It is not BS, it is just you do not want to consider the ramifications of being a hard ass GM in the NFL. He had a hard decision to make on who to re-sign for sure with 4 players, but he even reduced their tenders when they chose to not re-sign at a higher tender.

I am contending that the players in that locker room are getting the message that they are expendable in SD unless they play for less than market value. I appreciate your list and then remind you those are role players and all are replaceable pieces in today's NFL. I mean OG, C, LB, and Punter! Come on, those are disposable positions in today's NFL hierarchy. Those are places you have to let go.

Jammer is the only one who is not and he had to decide between him and Cromartie. He already made that trade.

As for DEN, not the best place to compare your roster management decisions ;D There are certainly better teams that handle their rosters better than DEN. However, We appreciate the fact AJ is such a hardass. It makes SD just that much less intimidating having those 2 players not in youtr team and not getting anything back for them right away either.

I disagree. The players and their agents are the ones who gambled, AJ Smith was simply sending a message to honor your current contract. IF V.J. had showed up and played this year (and also McNeil) then I think Smith would have started negotiations with both players on new contracts. It's about good faith and neither player nor neither player's agent acted in good faith for the team. JMHO.

Black96WS6
09-23-2010, 11:14 AM
I disagree. The players and their agents are the ones who gambled, AJ Smith was simply sending a message to honor your current contract. IF V.J. had showed up and played this year (and also McNeil) then I think Smith would have started negotiations with both players on new contracts. It's about good faith and neither player nor neither player's agent acted in good faith for the team. JMHO.

This.

serious hops
09-23-2010, 11:54 AM
If AJ crumbles here, he faces this problem in the future when someone gets upset about their contract. Don't you think Chargers next year will consider this point when their agent whispers "holdout" again?


Denver catered to both Cutler, Marshall and Scheffler when they wanted out of town, and it didn't impact our ability to work out extensions with Dumervil, Kuper and Orton.

400HZ
09-23-2010, 12:14 PM
It is not BS, it is just you do not want to consider the ramifications of being a hard ass GM in the NFL. He had a hard decision to make on who to re-sign for sure with 4 players, but he even reduced their tenders when they chose to not re-sign at a higher tender.

I am contending that the players in that locker room are getting the message that they are expendable in SD unless they play for less than market value. I appreciate your list and then remind you those are role players and all are replaceable pieces in today's NFL. I mean OG, C, LB, and Punter! Come on, those are disposable positions in today's NFL hierarchy. Those are places you have to let go.

Jammer is the only one who is not and he had to decide between him and Cromartie. He already made that trade.

As for DEN, not the best place to compare your roster management decisions ;D There are certainly better teams that handle their rosters better than DEN. However, We appreciate the fact AJ is such a hardass. It makes SD just that much less intimidating having those 2 players not in youtr team and not getting anything back for them right away either.

Being a hard ass and negotiating tough are realities of the business when you represent a team in the lower third of franchise revenues. You mentioned Rivers and Gates, acting like signing players who among the best at their position shouldn't count as good signings, when in fact they are the best signings that he's made. And don't try and shrug off the players I listed who have also earned and gotten lucrative extensions. I didn't list a group of scrubs. Those were all high dollar signings, and they are perfect examples of players who showed up, played hard, and were rewarded: all examples to younger players. The reality is that every good player who comes through San Diego can't be kept, but AJ has done a good job with what he has. This isn't Dallas or Washington or even Denver when it comes to cash available.

Jackson probably would have gotten a fair offer if he hadn't become a liability off the field. McNeil DID get an extension offer two years ago, but he turned it down and then had a decline in production. They wouldn't have gotten ridiculous, free agent level deals, but they would have been fairly rewarded. In the future, Shawne Merriman will be a player who isn't kept. That is a product of weighing impact against off-field issues and resources available.

If anything, the Chargers track record on player re-signings has been positive. Just who in the locker room are you contending will "[get] the message that they are expendable in SD unless they play for less than market value"? Maybe someone who makes repeated mistakes off-field, but not someone who shows up, works hard, and produces i.e. players that any good team WANTS to keep around.

400HZ
09-23-2010, 12:17 PM
Denver catered to both Cutler, Marshall and Scheffler when they wanted out of town, and it didn't impact our ability to work out extensions with Dumervil, Kuper and Orton.

Most players don't give two ****s about any of that. They want to (1) get paid and (2) go somewhere that they feel positive about playing. In that order.

400HZ
09-23-2010, 12:18 PM
So you are saying because they over a 6 year period have managed to sign 3 high profile players and 8 players ranging from backups to starters they have a solid record of doing business? that is a strong 2 players per year, I think some teams might be better than that.

Name me some teams who have done better than that. There aren't many.

GoBroncos DownUnder
09-23-2010, 01:32 PM
Off topic, but -
http://orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=5727&dateline=1282874232
EVERY time I see this image all I think of is "LOOK MA! NO RINGS"

boltaneer
09-23-2010, 01:37 PM
The Chargers are one of the better teams at developing "home grown" talent and extending them.

Adding to 400's list of players who got extensions under AJ Smith:

Kris Dielman
Nick Hardwick
Luis Castillo
Quentin Jammer
Shaun Phillips
Stephen Cooper
Jyles Tucker
Mike Scifres
LaDainian Tomlinson
Phillip Rivers
Antonio Gates

Jamal Williams
Nate Kaeding
Eric Parker
David Binn
Brandon Manumaleuna
Jacques Cesaire
Ryon Bingham
Matt Wilhelm
Kassim Osgood
Clinton Hart
Shane Olivea


Aside from a handful of guys, these guys were/are all starters.

That's a pretty good track record of rewarding your own.

Br0nc0Buster
09-23-2010, 01:43 PM
The Chargers are one of the better teams at developing "home grown" talent and extending them.

Adding to 400's list of players who got extensions under AJ Smith:

Kris Dielman
Nick Hardwick
Luis Castillo
Quentin Jammer
Shaun Phillips
Stephen Cooper
Jyles Tucker
Mike Scifres
LaDainian Tomlinson
Phillip Rivers
Antonio Gates

Jamal Williams
Nate Kaeding
Eric Parker
David Binn
Brandon Manumaleuna
Jacques Cesaire
Ryon Bingham
Matt Wilhelm
Kassim Osgood
Clinton Hart
Shane Olivea


Aside from a handful of guys, these guys were/are all starters.

That's a pretty good track record of rewarding your own.

Brandon Manu wasnt homegrown, he was in St. Louis 5 years before SD

That One Guy
09-23-2010, 02:57 PM
Denver catered to both Cutler, Marshall and Scheffler when they wanted out of town, and it didn't impact our ability to work out extensions with Dumervil, Kuper and Orton.

So the three that were upset are shipped out of town but the three who never complained once to the media are still there.

My previous comment said he'd have problems when issues with a contract arose. That doesn't apply to any of them.

Point?

boltaneer
09-23-2010, 02:57 PM
Brandon Manu wasnt homegrown, he was in St. Louis 5 years before SD

Thanks, captain nitpick! :flower:

tonngo0
09-23-2010, 05:27 PM
I disagree. The players and their agents are the ones who gambled, AJ Smith was simply sending a message to honor your current contract. IF V.J. had showed up and played this year (and also McNeil) then I think Smith would have started negotiations with both players on new contracts. It's about good faith and neither player nor neither player's agent acted in good faith for the team. JMHO.

VJ is not under contract ... SD still has his right, so it is a whole different scenario.

Xenos
09-23-2010, 07:31 PM
Denver catered to both Cutler, Marshall and Scheffler when they wanted out of town, and it didn't impact our ability to work out extensions with Dumervil, Kuper and Orton.
And AJ was a hard ass when it came to Gates' deal in 2005. It didn't stop the latter from resigning again this offseason. Nor did it stop him from resigning other players over the year like Jammer and Rivers.

All VJ and McNeill had to do was sign that tender offer. Just like all the other RFA this season. Dumvervil is an excellent example since Josh also sent him a letter warning him that his tender would be reduced if he didn't sign it. And he did and then soon after got an extension. Same with Miles Austin. Most importantly, those two also participated in all of the OTA and other offseason programs that their respective teams held.

hookemhess
09-23-2010, 08:48 PM
I'm not sure these agents are doing their client a service by making these comments. He could still be traded in mid-Oct. Don't look past AJ to hold VJ hostage for the season.

boltaneer
09-23-2010, 10:10 PM
and aj was a hard ass when it came to gates' deal in 2005. It didn't stop the latter from resigning again this offseason. Nor did it stop him from resigning other players over the year like jammer and rivers.

All vj and mcneill had to do was sign that tender offer. Just like all the other rfa this season. Dumvervil is an excellent example since josh also sent him a letter warning him that his tender would be reduced if he didn't sign it. And he did and then soon after got an extension. Same with miles austin. Most importantly, those two also participated in all of the ota and other offseason programs that their respective teams held.

qft

boltaneer
09-24-2010, 10:05 AM
Actually there is no statement in the current CBA that states a restricted free agent can't become unrestricted by holding out, the only mechanism to that effect is that a player will not accrue a season towards free agency unless that player is available to the team for a minimum number of games.

BTW, here you go. You always seem to doubt my words:

As in one more year. Remember, the Chargers believe Jackson will still be under their control next season based on language in the current Collective Bargaining Agreement that says a restricted free agent who doesn’t play in a league year remains under his old team’s control. Word is that the players’ union has assured agents that won’t be the case under the new CBA, but we could be doing this all over again next year.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/sep/23/commentary-sifting-through-ashes-vj-vs-j/

Bronco Yoda
09-24-2010, 10:12 AM
This is a two fold win for the Bronco fans.

1. A greedy agent and his client play their trump card, get called and lose their gamble = good for the league.

2. It was the Chargers that took the hit to prove a point = bad for the chargers season.

You got that right! ROFL! I had to laugh when I first heard the 'Lord of no rings' comment on the NFL network. VJ rolled the dice and lost.

24champ
09-24-2010, 10:34 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v57/Nixhex78/chargers1.jpg


The Chargers play in a s***hole and have never won a SB...more on this story at 11.


http://www.zdistrict.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/anchorman.jpg

Kaylore
09-24-2010, 10:49 AM
Dumvervil is an excellent example since Josh also sent him a letter warning him that his tender would be reduced if he didn't sign it. And he did and then soon after got an extension. Same with Miles Austin. Most importantly, those two also participated in all of the OTA and other offseason programs that their respective teams held.

That's not quite how it happened. First of all, the league requires all clubs to send that letter when a player isn't signed as part of the CBA rules when a player isn't signed. It's not like the Den front office was playing hard ball with him and wanted to warn him. Xanders was already several weeks into negotiations when that letter was sent, and Dumervil had already signed an injury waiver so he could practice while they finished up the contract. Even if he didn't sign it, he would have been extended.

My problem with AJ is how he low-balls players and then in trade talks demands money that would be consistent with what the player is asking. It's like he says "F*** YOU! You're not worth a top tier talent contract!" and then when teams ask or make offers he goes "F*** YOU! He's a top tier talent! THREE FIRSTS OR NO DEAL! MY DICK IS SO BIG RIGHT NOW!!!!" Ok AJ. ::)

Xenos
09-24-2010, 12:04 PM
That's not quite how it happened. First of all, the league requires all clubs to send that letter when a player isn't signed as part of the CBA rules when a player isn't signed. It's not like the Den front office was playing hard ball with him and wanted to warn him. Xanders was already several weeks into negotiations when that letter was sent, and Dumervil had already signed an injury waiver so he could practice while they finished up the contract. Even if he didn't sign it, he would have been extended.

My problem with AJ is how he low-balls players and then in trade talks demands money that would be consistent with what the player is asking. It's like he says "**** YOU! You're not worth a top tier talent contract!" and then when teams ask or make offers he goes "**** YOU! He's a top tier talent! THREE FIRSTS OR NO DEAL! MY DICK IS SO BIG RIGHT NOW!!!!" Ok AJ. ::)

How much did Cutler and Marshall get paid here and how much did both of them get you in a trade? Of course any FO would do something like that if the other team is willing to pay for it.

And Marcus and, possibly even VJ, would be extended right now if they had both signed their tender.

JJJ
09-24-2010, 12:22 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v57/Nixhex78/chargers1.jpg


The Chargers play in a s***hole and have never won a SB...more on this story at 11.


http://www.zdistrict.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/anchorman.jpg

There should be an AFL championship trophy in there brother. You guys got no shot at one of those. Ha!

Rabb
09-24-2010, 12:32 PM
There should be an AFL championship trophy in there brother. You guys got no shot at one of those. Ha!

that's like when the Rockies only had that lonely ass wild card banner in Coors field

it was more embarrassing than anything

Beantown Bronco
09-24-2010, 12:38 PM
that's like when the Rockies only had that lonely ass wild card banner in Coors field

it was more embarrassing than anything

I think you mean absolute embarrassing.