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Popps
09-19-2010, 10:08 PM
O.K... I already posted my upbeat about the future thread, and I am really jacked about this team.

But, let's talk about this defense.

Why does the middle of our line look so bad? Has anyone had time to analyze Williams' play? We really should have upgraded personnel at the front 3, and it just looks like teams can run up the gut on us, at-will.

Then, there's the pass-rush. Now, I've been crying about Doom being out non-stop around here. So, I know his absence is the primary problem.

But, are we just not going to bring extra pressure this year? It also looks to me like when we do... we STILL can't get close to the QB.

This thread isn't really meant to be a b****-session, so much as to ask why... and what do you think we can do in the short-term to fix these problems?

footstepsfrom#27
09-19-2010, 10:11 PM
2011 draft

Kaylore
09-19-2010, 10:15 PM
Dumervil get healthy and better defensive line play.

LongDongJohnson
09-19-2010, 10:19 PM
3 picks in the first 2 rounds of the draft.

Use all 3 on defense please.

theAPAOps5
09-19-2010, 10:20 PM
I noticed today that Bannan and others got blown off their feet along the line. That equates to the LB's not having a clear path and they get caught in the wash of the play.

Moss is a fast aggressive player who is quick to run into the OL and get negated. Ayers has flashes but now he may be hurt.

I am thinking that this Defense will be middle of the road and will be bend but don't break. I like our secondary and the rookies made some plays as well.

Clockwork Orange
09-19-2010, 10:22 PM
2011 draft

This.

There's a need for a serious infusion of talent in the front seven and there aren't gonna be any quick fixes for it.

Requiem
09-19-2010, 10:30 PM
Heavy drafting on the front seven in the NFL Draft.

We're set up with four picks in the first three rounds (1, 2A, 2B, 3) -- Three of those first four should go towards that area. Defensive end, another nose tackle and a linebacker. Heck, two linebackers perhaps.

DL: Clayborn, Heyward, Jordan, McPhee, Powe

Greg Jones would be killer at ILB.

Throw in Von Miller too.

Yeah.

Popps
09-19-2010, 10:32 PM
Any ideas for the rest of this season?

SoCalBronco
09-19-2010, 10:33 PM
Not sure how we are going to solve the problem on the DL this year. The first issue is that McBean is not NFL starter material. Seriously, this guy would start on maybe 5 teams in the whole league. That might be we saw a little bit of Marcus Thomas in this game, but he too isn't starter material in this league, especially at 3-4 DE.

At the other two spots, the staff took a gamble that Jamal Williams would return to pre-injury form after a year off, but its become obvious that he's definitely in clear decline. It was not an unreasonable venture, though, given that 1) we had very little in terms of legitimate young prospects at the position, 2) Fields had been partially exposed by the end of last year and 3) the contract was only a short term one. Nonetheless, it hasn't quite turned out the way I had hoped. He isn't commanding double teams and isn't eating both of the A gaps for lunch. Bannan has been kind of hot and cold. He too has probably slightly underperformed, but he's not horrible. The bottom line is that Williams and Bannan at this point would be halfway decent in a rotation of other talented DL, but if you want them to carry the front consistently, its not going to happen and as a result, the LB's are going to have blockers in their laps a second after the snap (as we saw today).

In the last two years we have invested a single draft choice in the front seven in the first two rounds and that choice was not even at DL. If we keep the first and the two seconds next year (and we should, no more being cute in the war room), I think 2 of these 3 selections should be devoted to the DL: 1 NT and 1 DE. We've got to build a young foundation on the line at some point. When Doom comes back, we'll be fine at LB, with 3 of the 4 spots being filled with good NFL starters, but we need to address the line early and often.

There's not too much we can do at this point in the season, except for heavy blitzing.

Hulamau
09-19-2010, 10:33 PM
It seems to me that

1. Either Williams has indeed lost a few steps or since he didn't play all last year nor in the pre-season really and this is the first two games with a new team and perhaps he just hasn't gotten in sync with Bannen and Facemask.

2. Or it also could be that Wink has the front three trying to mainly lock up the Olinemen rather push the line and tackle the runner in the backfield and prevent the Oline from getting to our linebackers who are suppose to take down the run game?? ( if so they need more work on it!)

3. Orrrrr, it could be all an elaborate slight of hand where Josh figured we could beat both the Jagwads (wrong guess) and Seahags (right on the money) without tipping our hand and thus he is saving the unleashing of the Hounds of Hell on said Payton Manning and the NFL next week. :-)

As much as I'm hoping the answer is behind door number 3, I suspect its some combination of doors 1 and 2.

I do think they will improve ( injuries allowing) as hte season goes on but I do'nt suspect the run defense is going to be really solved until we revamp the front 7.

Which MUST be our number one priority in both FA and the draft the next two years. On offense the next two years at most we may need to add a new RT prospect another TE and RB but nothing more. We have more than enough bodies to develop the erst of the O starters and depth.

On D we need a big injection of youth and talent in the from 7 to go along with Doom, Ayers, Hunter ...and dare I say Moss. Also, another stud safety and one more killer corner. Assuming Cox, Squid and Vaughn will all develop into stud starters for us in the years ahead.

Another factor in addition to doors 1 and 2 could be that Wink needs more time to grow into this job? After all it would be rare for a first time DC to suddenly perform at top flight form with no growing pains.

Hulamau
09-19-2010, 10:47 PM
Another thing, I do hope the improvement in the run game for the front 7 (front 3 in particular) parallels that of our Oline ... both in quality as well as time ( meaning ASAP!!)

I do think the oline and our run game will improve substantially when Harris Kupe and Clady are all up to speed and its great we are getting a lot of invaluable experince for Walton, Beadles, Baptiste and Daniels now. That is going to pay off big time as the year progresses as well as for long term Oline depth.

Did you see Walton destroy the Seahags DT and linebacker on the Buckhalter score??? Just picked the guy up and dumped him on the other one knocking them both on their ass and Buck waltzed in for seven.

Buck made a point of giving Walton a big bear hug :-)

Also look at how much our Oline pass protection improved in one game??! The Seachickens gave SF fits with their rush last week and yet hardly touched Orton today.. Perhaps these young rookies will make similar big gains in the run game too with a little more experience and with Harris and Kuper back too...

But I suspect that even though I hope and trust real improvements in our overall D as the season goes on ... I also suspect that our best defense this year is going to be an increasingly dominant offense spearheaded by a top flight passing attack augmented with an improving run game as well.

Hulamau
09-19-2010, 10:58 PM
Not sure how we are going to solve the problem on the DL this year. The first issue is that McBean is not NFL starter material. Seriously, this guy would start on maybe 5 teams in the whole league. That might be we saw a little bit of Marcus Thomas in this game, but he too isn't starter material in this league, especially at 3-4 DE.

At the other two spots, the staff took a gamble that Jamal Williams would return to pre-injury form after a year off, but its become obvious that he's definitely in clear decline. It was not an unreasonable venture, though, given that 1) we had very little in terms of legitimate young prospects at the position, 2) Fields had been partially exposed by the end of last year and 3) the contract was only a short term one. Nonetheless, it hasn't quite turned out the way I had hoped. He isn't commanding double teams and isn't eating both of the A gaps for lunch. Bannan has been kind of hot and cold. He too has probably slightly underperformed, but he's not horrible. The bottom line is that Williams and Bannan at this point would be halfway decent in a rotation of other talented DL, but if you want them to carry the front consistently, its not going to happen and as a result, the LB's are going to have blockers in their laps a second after the snap (as we saw today).

In the last two years we have invested a single draft choice in the front seven in the first two rounds and that choice was not even at DL. If we keep the first and the two seconds next year (and we should, no more being cute in the war room), I think 2 of these 3 selections should be devoted to the DL: 1 NT and 1 DE. We've got to build a young foundation on the line at some point. When Doom comes back, we'll be fine at LB, with 3 of the 4 spots being filled with good NFL starters, but we need to address the line early and often.


There's not too much we can do at this point in the season, except for heavy blitzing.

Bingo! But if we can spring Franklin from SF at NT then spend two of the first three on DE's and the third on either an ILB or Safety. Grab a couple more FA for improved front 7 depth and we should be oke. Still leaves room to take a flyer on a later round RB and possible TE or back up corner?

I'm looking for Cassius to develop fast into what we all hoped Fonze could be .. a stud #2 corner opposite Cox in the years ahead, but faster and bigger than Smith and w/out the primadonna factor. Squid can play nickleback

Requiem
09-19-2010, 10:59 PM
SoCal is right on the money.

Cito Pelon
09-19-2010, 11:10 PM
Any ideas for the rest of this season?

Not much they can do but play with what they have. Blitzing galore isn't the answer, IMO. Unless they can start blitzing effectively, of course.

TheReverend
09-19-2010, 11:18 PM
Poor coordinator work. Nbd, he's learning on the fly. He should get better.

For example: Nolan ran a lot of slant fronts last year over the left A gap to help keep DJ clean. It allowed him to make a lot of plays up front and at the LOS. That's one fun little gimmick that we haven't really seen yet.

Popps
09-20-2010, 12:22 AM
Good takes all around.

I'm re-watching the first half right now... and trying to figure out how much Williams is actually playing. I swear it doesn't seem like he's out there much.

Btw, I guess we held Seattle to 109 total yards rushing. Not as bad as I thought, but they were in pass-mode after being down so far, so it's hard to say.

SoCalBronco
09-20-2010, 12:24 AM
1. Cameron Heyward, DE Ohio State- Very impressed by his work vs. our OL last week. Alternate selection(s): Marcel Dareus is also an option here depending on where we are drafting, if he comes out (I anticipate around 12th or so). DEN has an outside chance to nab one of these guys if there is a flood of juniors that declare.
2a. Jerrell Powe, NT Ole Miss- Has the girth required and has posted impressive TFL stats last year. Has overcome some adversity in the past.
2b. Chris Galippo, LB USC- Good SILB prospect. Kind of shaky in pass coverage, but has solid NFL ability. Alternate selection(s): Colin McCarthy, LB Miami- He's football smart, although he has struggled a bit this year at 4-3 MLB. Is a very good 4-3 SLB. Unproven in a 3-4 system. Probably closer to 3rd round value than 2nd round value. Needs some work on wrapping guys up.
3. Noel Devine, RB West Virginia- DEN needs a pure speed burner to go with Moreno. Devine has a checkered past, but he can fly.

TheReverend
09-20-2010, 12:29 AM
1. Cameron Heyward, DE Ohio State- Very impressed by his work vs. our OL last week. Alternate selection(s): Marcel Dareus is also an option here depending on where we are drafting, if he comes out (I anticipate around 12th or so). DEN has an outside chance to nab one of these guys if there is a flood of juniors that declare.
2a. Jerrell Powe, NT Ole Miss- Has the girth required and has posted impressive TFL stats last year. Has overcome some adversity in the past.
2b. Chris Galippo, LB USC- Good SILB prospect. Kind of shaky in pass coverage, but has solid NFL ability. Alternate selection(s): Colin McCarthy, LB Miami- He's football smart, although he has struggled a bit this year at 4-3 MLB. Is a very good 4-3 SLB. Unproven in a 3-4 system. Probably closer to 3rd round value than 2nd round value. Needs some work on wrapping guys up.
3. Noel Devine, RB West Virginia- DEN needs a pure speed burner to go with Moreno. Devine has a checkered past, but he can fly.

Kelvin Sheppard from LSU. Slow enough to linger to the 3rd round possibly and big enough to bring the wood and take on blockers and play in traffic at a high level.

Mogulseeker
09-20-2010, 12:45 AM
We'll be better when Doom comes back. Ayers can get pressure on the other side. Our DL is below average at best.

extralife
09-20-2010, 01:10 AM
All we can really do is concede the run and cover well. Play to our strengths and hope it holds in the red zone. Not exactly optimistic, but that's what happens when you don't have a play maker in the front seven. Hopefully Ayers gets better as the season goes along.

Cito Pelon
09-20-2010, 01:14 AM
I still have hopes for Jarvis. The guy has a cast on his hand and wrist, but still seems to be doing well.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-20-2010, 01:22 AM
There is no direct quick fix for the defensive front seven outside of new talent. We need to win the field position battle on special teams, and get healthy on the offensive line. We were beaten like a drum on special teams again today. Luckily we had a decisive lead at that point.

Drek
09-20-2010, 05:29 AM
This thread isn't really meant to be a b****-session, so much as to ask why... and what do you think we can do in the short-term to fix these problems?

You pretty much nailed it already. Its all about the line play.

I think part of it is scheme, Martindale was trying to get cute with some two man fronts and the like early yesterday if I recall.

Part of it is obvious rust on the part of Jamal Williams, along with the fact that he is not an every down player.

McBean is showing promise but he's had some inconsistencies to start the year, he needs to play smarter.

Bannan is what he is, a very solid gap filler who won't make plays for you, but can free guys up to make a play if they have the ability to do so.

Thomas shows some great potential as a situational DE/NT with some penetration skills, probably the only guy on the line with real pass rush skills, but he's still raw in the 3-4 front and misses plays, like the big run Forsett took by him up the guy late in the game.

I'd like to see Fields get more involved. He's a solid DE/NT type who should play better than last year now that he isn't going to be called on to play every down at NT.

Going forward though? We need Vickerson and Jeff Stehle to pick up the system and show some ability to contribute, fast. Especially Vickerson, since like Thomas he can play both DE and NT.

Haggan is a solid two down ILB, DJ is a borderline pro-bowler. Ayers (if he's healthy) is really coming into his own and already looks to be an above average starter. Hunter and Moss are actually doing a solid job in combination on the opposite side. The LBs look solid and with Doom back next year they'll look real good.

The secondary has a great combination of savvy vets starting and young, athletic depth behind him. But we need McBath back ASAP, or for Bruton to step it up in coverage. We're getting exposed by receiving TEs because Dawkins can't consistently run step for step with them if he's one on one. There have also been some mis-communication issues in the secondary. Overall though this is our best unit and I'd like it if Martindale made better use of it. He tries to cover 3 WR sets or 2 WR, 2 TE sets with a good pass catching TE with the base defense too often. You can't ask Hunter, Moss, Haggan, or even Ayers to cover a TE for prolonged stretches of time and it also takes away from our pass rush when we commit those guys to coverage.

Overall Martindale needs to improve, the execution needs to improve, and we need some depth to step up and help carry some of the load.

ColoradoDarin
09-20-2010, 05:30 AM
The fix for our defense, this year, is for the offense to put a lot of points on the board. Beyond that we still need more talent in the front 7. I'm no DJ Williams fan either and I think we should look at trading him and drafting a replacement.

fontaine
09-20-2010, 05:32 AM
I did see some improvement.

Our nickel defense didn't get run over all the time like it did in Week 1.

kent156
09-20-2010, 05:37 AM
it was 120 degrees out there

TotallyScrewed
09-20-2010, 05:44 AM
The best defense is a strong offense. That's what is going to make or break it.

TotallyScrewed
09-20-2010, 05:53 AM
There is no direct quick fix for the defensive front seven outside of new talent. We need to win the field position battle on special teams, and get healthy on the offensive line. We were beaten like a drum on special teams again today. Luckily we had a decisive lead at that point.

Or you could say that we were lucky as hell. Another plus is that Prater was killing it. Punting game?!!? Not so much.

R8R H8R
09-20-2010, 10:17 AM
Trade Brandon Lloyd to the Viqueens for one of thier studs on the DL and promote Bey-Bey.

Tombstone RJ
09-20-2010, 10:20 AM
O.K... I already posted my upbeat about the future thread, and I am really jacked about this team.

But, let's talk about this defense.

Why does the middle of our line look so bad? Has anyone had time to analyze Williams' play? We really should have upgraded personnel at the front 3, and it just looks like teams can run up the gut on us, at-will.

Then, there's the pass-rush. Now, I've been crying about Doom being out non-stop around here. So, I know his absence is the primary problem.

But, are we just not going to bring extra pressure this year? It also looks to me like when we do... we STILL can't get close to the QB.

This thread isn't really meant to be a b****-session, so much as to ask why... and what do you think we can do in the short-term to fix these problems?

How is the defense performing in the Redzone?

NFLBRONCO
09-20-2010, 11:38 AM
Not sure how we are going to solve the problem on the DL this year. The first issue is that McBean is not NFL starter material. Seriously, this guy would start on maybe 5 teams in the whole league. That might be we saw a little bit of Marcus Thomas in this game, but he too isn't starter material in this league, especially at 3-4 DE.

At the other two spots, the staff took a gamble that Jamal Williams would return to pre-injury form after a year off, but its become obvious that he's definitely in clear decline. It was not an unreasonable venture, though, given that 1) we had very little in terms of legitimate young prospects at the position, 2) Fields had been partially exposed by the end of last year and 3) the contract was only a short term one. Nonetheless, it hasn't quite turned out the way I had hoped. He isn't commanding double teams and isn't eating both of the A gaps for lunch. Bannan has been kind of hot and cold. He too has probably slightly underperformed, but he's not horrible. The bottom line is that Williams and Bannan at this point would be halfway decent in a rotation of other talented DL, but if you want them to carry the front consistently, its not going to happen and as a result, the LB's are going to have blockers in their laps a second after the snap (as we saw today).

In the last two years we have invested a single draft choice in the front seven in the first two rounds and that choice was not even at DL. If we keep the first and the two seconds next year (and we should, no more being cute in the war room), I think 2 of these 3 selections should be devoted to the DL: 1 NT and 1 DE. We've got to build a young foundation on the line at some point. When Doom comes back, we'll be fine at LB, with 3 of the 4 spots being filled with good NFL starters, but we need to address the line early and often.

There's not too much we can do at this point in the season, except for heavy blitzing.

Very solid post my friend. I agree 100% on what WE should do in 2011 draft. I have two questions

1. Will this be a quality deep enough draft for DL to use two top picks at this position. Miami pick might be a low 2nd.

2. Would you even pass on other positions and better talent just to fill a huge DL need?

I hope we do like we did last year trade down and stockpile some picks to really bolster D. I wouldn't expect more then 1 DL max in each draft from this Org. So it might take 3 more drafts to redo DL.

Steve Prefontaine
09-20-2010, 11:44 AM
2011 draft

haven't people been saying this for 10+ years now?

i feel like the only year it was seriously addressed was 2007 (moss, crowder, thomas), and unfortunately none of them panned out.

cutthemdown
09-20-2010, 11:45 AM
We need better players.

Que
09-20-2010, 11:50 AM
I noticed we brought two guys up the gut several times during the game. Usually one on an out and out blitz and the second on a stunt. Most of the time both were picked up resulting in no pressure on the QB. All that being said, those blitzs are important as it keeps the back at home to pick up the guy on a stunt instead of swinging out as a check down guy. It does open us up for screens if the guy on a stunt doesn't read the play correctly.

We'll get some pressure from the outside with Ayers or Moss on occasion but I don't look for a sackfest happening this season unless we play the St. Mary's School for the Physically Challenged.

PRBronco
09-20-2010, 11:50 AM
We need better players.

If Ayers is going to miss any time, I wonder if they'd be better served to move Haggan back outside and get Mays or Woodyard on the field, in the interests of having the best 4 linebackers out there.

Beantown Bronco
09-20-2010, 11:55 AM
Can't Bowlen just take Ozzie Newsome out drinking this week and get him drunk enough to trade Haloti Ngata for our newly acquired 6th rounder from NE?

orange skier
09-20-2010, 12:12 PM
I rewatched the first half, and focused on Bannon. He basically occupies one or two guys at most. Doesn't really contribute toward reaching a hand out to stop anyone.......I think I now understand why Baltimore had him as a back-up. If you really watch the D line play, we're losing the battle right there. Plus, we focused on increasing the size of our linebackers, and they seem slow to me, very slow. The idea in going to a larger body on the line is to free up the LBs to make plays. Our guys are slow to the line, not as quick as we used to be. They aren't aggressively rushing into the line, they stay back and read react. I'm hoping that Wink will correct this as the season progresses. Losing Dume hurts........

Popps
09-20-2010, 12:25 PM
I rewatched the first half, and focused on Bannon. He basically occupies one or two guys at most. Doesn't really contribute toward reaching a hand out to stop anyone.......I think I now understand why Baltimore had him as a back-up. If you really watch the D line play, we're losing the battle right there. Plus, we focused on increasing the size of our linebackers, and they seem slow to me, very slow. The idea in going to a larger body on the line is to free up the LBs to make plays. Our guys are slow to the line, not as quick as we used to be. They aren't aggressively rushing into the line, they stay back and read react. I'm hoping that Wink will correct this as the season progresses. Losing Dume hurts........

Yea, I also noticed (to my surprise) that Marcus Thomas actually didn't play that poorly. Now, that could just be a few plays... but he seemed to hold up well, mostly.

We need more talent there, though. No question.

Seymour will be a free agent, I believe. He should be able to be had at a reasonable price. Plus, we'll need to draft there... of course.

Still, I'm hoping we can shuffle our cards a bit and improve the interior run defense this season.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-20-2010, 12:27 PM
Trade Brandon Lloyd to the Viqueens for one of thier studs on the DL and promote Bey-Bey.

Would much, MUCH rather trade them Gaffney...

cutthemdown
09-20-2010, 12:28 PM
If Ayers is going to miss any time, I wonder if they'd be better served to move Haggan back outside and get Mays or Woodyard on the field, in the interests of having the best 4 linebackers out there.

Not really sure Mays, Woodyard, Haggan, Dj, Ayers are are good players. DJ looking older and was never really a stud. He's always been just sort of ok. Mays, Woodyard seem like role players to me. Haggan seems like a bkup. Ayers and Doom obviously have some talent. Doom proven, Ayers not so much yet.

Just seem to me until there are 2-3 players in that group that are studs our front 7 will continue to be soft.

azbroncfan
09-20-2010, 12:32 PM
Defense isn't very good due to lack of players that command respect and the need to be accounted for. Lots of role, rotation, bandaid, young unproven, old backside career players playing a lot of minutes.

gtown
09-20-2010, 12:33 PM
I think we simply haven't been bringing the pressure. Last year we played more of a 5-2 than a 3-4 with more people at the line on run blitzes. That led to some pretty spectacular plays in the backfield. This year we are getting pushed around a bit at the POA and have been very susceptible to cutbacks. We simply don't have the defensive speed in the front seven we had with the smaller group that Shanny favored.

The blitzes we have run have been pretty uncreative - nearly all through an A gap. And most of the time I can all it when they are blitzing so there is no tactical surprise. Most plays we are rushing four. Maybe Wink is seeing what kind of pressure we can bring without blitzing and later on in the year we can unleash hell.

PRBronco
09-20-2010, 12:34 PM
Not really sure Mays, Woodyard, Haggan, Dj, Ayers are are good players. DJ looking older and was never really a stud. He's always been just sort of ok. Mays, Woodyard seem like role players to me. Haggan seems like a bkup. Ayers and Doom obviously have some talent. Doom proven, Ayers not so much yet.

Just seem to me until there are 2-3 players in that group that are studs our front 7 will continue to be soft.

Haha yeah, I just mean the best players we have to offer, right now.

gyldenlove
09-20-2010, 12:34 PM
If we disregard the coming draft and offseason which is going to be impossible to predict and only look at what we have and what we can do with that right now, then a few things stand out.

1. The DL is not getting it done consistently, Williams, Bannan, Mcbean, Thomas, Fields and Vickerson are not consistently keeping the ILBs free to move around and against the pass they are not generating any sort of pressure even in 1 on 1 matchups. I do think this will improve a bit over time, although I do think right now we are not attacking the best way, I would like to see more stunts to keep the offensive line off balance a bit. Vickerson did seem decent yesterday and hopefully he can bring something, I am hoping Williams heats up a bit as well, he is running too cold right now.

2. Haggan and Williams are not really clogging the middle well enough, on a number of run plays over the first 2 weeks our ILBs have been too far back which allows the RB to get through the trenches before the ILBs can get up and seal the gap which sets up open field situations.

3. Right now the only time the pass rush seems even remotely dangerous is when the QB takes a 7 step drop and our OLBs can rush wide with speed. Ayers had that one sweet spin move in week 1, but none of our OLBs are getting it down with power or leverage.

4. The defensive play calling seems pretty conservative at some turns, the pass rushing especially, we do blitz but the blitzes seem pretty standard.

I would like to see more elaborate blitzes and more frequent as well to keep the offense a little more on their toes and not rely so much on 1 on 1 assignments, I would also like to see the offensive mix it up with some new moves and directional pressing. The OLBs seem to be doing a lot of read and react and you can tell on many plays that they are late getting the rush on because they have to see if they are playing contain, if we unleashed them a bit more it might help.

Haggan especially needs to spend more time just running headfirst into the line, either getting through for tackles or sealing gaps. His strength is definitely when the play is in front of him and he is a liability in coverage.

I would like to see Wink get more aggressive with his play calling and get away from the zone cover. I vomited copiously and explosively last night when the Seahawks converted 3rd and 8 in our red zone because we had zone cover sitting 5 yards behind the distance they needed to get, so Deion Branch was able to run entirely too easily to the 1st down line and squat and wait for the ball with nobody on him to contest the catch. That was too reminiscent of Bob Slowik.

Mediator12
09-20-2010, 12:35 PM
Poor coordinator work. Nbd, he's learning on the fly. He should get better.

For example: Nolan ran a lot of slant fronts last year over the left A gap to help keep DJ clean. It allowed him to make a lot of plays up front and at the LOS. That's one fun little gimmick that we haven't really seen yet.

Yeah, but teams have had the year of film to adjust for that tactic too. He is going to need to come up with something new and old school.

Mediator12
09-20-2010, 12:47 PM
What is interesting is the version of the 3-4 DEN has been running so far. It pretty much looks like a 4-3 with different personnel on the field and the DL not being able to occupy the 2 gaps consistently in the run game. Against the zone scheme, the DL have to penetrate more than occupy and yesterday they looked very slow to take the gaps away.

I think they could absolutely be more interesting scheme wise. They need to get more creative with their pressure, their gaps, and their zone fire packages. Really not a lot of aggression and confusion which is the advantage of the 3-4. I hope they have just been gamelanning safe to this point. Wink is a new DC and he might be starting them off with the KISS type of defenses to get their feet wet as a unit. I just hope he has something more up his sleeve after the first 4 weeks ;D

barryr
09-20-2010, 01:02 PM
I like the idea of moving defenders around to try to confuse the o-line and their blocking assignments. The Broncos just don't have enough good players on defense to just show the same basic looks, so maybe moving guys around in different gaps and rushing different people would help.

oubronco
09-20-2010, 01:03 PM
Dan Williams instead of Tebow would've been a start

Rohirrim
09-20-2010, 01:35 PM
Can we go back and use the three picks we used on Tebow and instead pick three defensive players?

I thought not. ;D

Rohirrim
09-20-2010, 01:39 PM
Dan Williams instead of Tebow would've been a start

Don't give up on Williams yet. If he does a really good job in Arizona and proves that he's worth a lot of money, Bidwell will want to dump him. ;D

Kaylore
09-20-2010, 01:42 PM
Dan Williams instead of Tebow would've been a start

I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure he was even active last week. That said, we definitely need better play on the D-line and at linebacker. We need linebackers that can blitz and better ends.

The disconcerting thing is we have no youth or really upside at all on the D-line. It's likely something that won't be addressed until next year.

Popps
09-20-2010, 01:45 PM
I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure he was even active last week. That said, we definitely need better play on the D-line and at linebacker. We need linebackers that can blitz and better ends.

The disconcerting thing is we have no youth or really upside at all on the D-line. It's likely something that won't be addressed until next year.

Great point. None of our LBs can blitz to save their lives.

Cito Pelon
09-20-2010, 01:46 PM
Can we go back and use the three picks we used on Tebow and instead pick three defensive players?

I thought not. ;D

Yeah, it is what it is. You play with what you have.

TheReverend
09-20-2010, 02:12 PM
Great point. None of our LBs can blitz to save their lives.

Hunter looks pretty good in this regard and DJ's best trait, imo, has always been his blitzing.

baja
09-20-2010, 02:18 PM
Can we go back and use the three picks we used on Tebow and instead pick three defensive players?

I thought not. ;D

Maybe we'll get all those picks back when we trade a now valuable Orton to make room for the next "great one" Tim Tebow.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-20-2010, 02:23 PM
Idea: Joe Mays. Looked like a pretty damn good blitzer against Pitt...

Popps
09-20-2010, 02:26 PM
Hunter looks pretty good in this regard and DJ's best trait, imo, has always been his blitzing.

Hunter has looked decent, though I've never thought DJ was much of a blitzer.

Hunter was around the QB a lot yesterday. Would be nice if some of our guys could get there, though.

Tombstone RJ
09-20-2010, 02:37 PM
I'd love to know the Bronco's redzone efficiency on defense. Of the two games I've watched I know the defense gives up big plays but I think they are pretty decent in the redzone. Anyone know how to find these stats?

TheReverend
09-20-2010, 02:40 PM
Hunter has looked decent, though I've never thought DJ was much of a blitzer.

Hunter was around the QB a lot yesterday. Would be nice if some of our guys could get there, though.

He had like 4 sacks last year on blitzes bro.

Popps
09-20-2010, 02:45 PM
I'd love to know the Bronco's redzone efficiency on defense. Of the two games I've watched I know the defense gives up big plays but I think they are pretty decent in the redzone. Anyone know how to find these stats?

Did a quick look and couldn't find anything from this year.

We're 18th in scoring defense. So, not great... not horrible. Our ST's certainly have to be factored in, as they've given opponents good starting positions in these two games.

My guess would be that in the redzone, we're average'ish.

I expect that to be somewhat worse by next Monday. :)

Tom A Hawk
09-20-2010, 03:17 PM
keep scoring more points and don't worry about the offense:wiggle:

fontaine
09-20-2010, 03:37 PM
Hunter is terrible. He's got a high motor but he's only showed one move which was to try and beat his man on the outside and he would usually get pushed/steered well outside the pocket.

He's not explosive, sudden and doesn't have any kind of violence in his snap.

Moss banged up his broken hand again, I think someone either stepped on it or it was at the bottom of a pile late in the 4th and he looked pretty sore. Had to leave the field and Ayers came in.

At this point we've got nothing in terms of pass rush.

baja
09-20-2010, 03:46 PM
Did a quick look and couldn't find anything from this year.

We're 18th in scoring defense. So, not great... not horrible. Our ST's certainly have to be factored in, as they've given opponents good starting positions in these two games.

My guess would be that in the redzone, we're average'ish.

I expect that to be somewhat worse by next Monday. :)

Maybe not manning does a lot of his scoring from outside the red zone.

Rohirrim
09-20-2010, 03:48 PM
Maybe we'll get all those picks back when we trade a now valuable Orton to make room for the next "great one" Tim Tebow.

:spit:

colonelbeef
09-20-2010, 05:01 PM
Thing that is worrisome is the age of the defensive backfield, they cannot wear down like they did last year, which proved to be an absolute killer down the stretch

gunns
09-20-2010, 05:02 PM
Did you know that our defense is on the field the least amount of time of any defense. And that our offense is second only to Houston in TOP?

PRBronco
09-20-2010, 05:03 PM
Did you know that our defense is on the field the least amount of time of any defense. And that our offense is second only to Houston in TOP?

Holy ****.

gyldenlove
09-20-2010, 05:05 PM
Did you know that our defense is on the field the least amount of time of any defense. And that our offense is second only to Houston in TOP?

Houston's TOP is skewed by their overtime game, our TOP is skewed by the Seattle game, we had the ball a LOT.

The MVPlaya
09-20-2010, 05:08 PM
Houston's TOP is skewed by their overtime game, our TOP is skewed by the Seattle game, we had the ball a LOT.

uhhh... that's the whole ****in point?

gunns
09-20-2010, 05:10 PM
Houston's TOP is skewed by their overtime game, our TOP is skewed by the Seattle game, we had the ball a LOT.

Ok, I digress slightly, our offense is third behind Houston and Atlanta.

WolfpackGuy
09-20-2010, 05:16 PM
The offense has to score.

The special teams have to quit giving up at least one big return a game.

The MVPlaya
09-20-2010, 05:17 PM
In concerns to blitzing, I am surprising the Broncos didn't blitz a lot/more yesterday considering the Seahawks were in quite a few 3rd and long situations. This was supposedly the reason why we didn't blitz much during the Seahawks game.

I think we will see more blitzing as the season moves on, and it probably varies by opponent. I'd also have to assume that Squid gets activated next week against the Colts. Great blitzing CB, and we'll need all the CB bodies we can get against the Colts...especially with lingering injuries in Champ and Goody.

Requiem
09-20-2010, 05:21 PM
I'm not sure about that.

Yet you keep doing the Brace > Smith revision in the 2009 draft. Weird.

Popps
09-20-2010, 05:39 PM
He had like 4 sacks last year on blitzes bro.

He has 6.5 in the prior 5 years. 1'ish per season.

He's fast, so if he's unblocked... the QB is going down. But, DJ has very little ability to fight off any blocker at any time.

He's a chaser and a solid tackler, but getting through guys isn't his thing. He'd have to go in untouched.

But, 3.5 sacks (his 09 total) is about the best we could expect from an ILB, really.

Dedhed
09-20-2010, 05:48 PM
I'm willing to give the scheme a little time to mature. We did create 4 TOs yesterday, which I can't remember for awhile.

None of us really know what to expect from Wink, so it's hard to tell what the defense is designed to be. Some of the things are obviously personnel issues, but the Seahawks punked the 49ers who are touted as a top defense, and we shut them out for a half, and really only gave up one score of consequence.

The MVPlaya
09-20-2010, 05:57 PM
None of us really know what to expect from Wink, so it's hard to tell what the defense is designed to be. Some of the things are obviously personnel issues, but the Seahawks punked the 49ers who are touted as a top defense, and we shut them out for a half, and really only gave up one score of consequence.

Not really... 1 of the TDs was a INT TD, the other put the Seahawks right within 15...

Seahawks benefited off some defensive plays and 2 double moves by their WRs.

WABronco
09-20-2010, 06:01 PM
Having Doom back will help exponentially. Hopefully Ayers continues to develop into a big nasty LB.

Hulamau
09-20-2010, 06:22 PM
Thing that is worrisome is the age of the defensive backfield, they cannot wear down like they did last year, which proved to be an absolute killer down the stretch

Thats why we drafted or brought in Cox, Squid and Vaughn .... Vaughn may well develop into a Goodman like corner, though a bit taller and faster. Cox may approach Champ level if he keeps progressing. Doubt he ever makes it all the way to Champ status in his prime, but could well be Champ's eventual replacement when Champ moves to free safety and our top corner for years to come?

We need one more stud corner in either FA or in the next two drafts and we'll be fine long term.

I just hope the three rookies dont get too scarred next week if they have to start in place of Champ and Goodie?!? Ala what happened to what's his name from 6 years ago or so ... Roc Alexander!

What a game in which we could desparately use Doom!!! Without any pressure on Manning and three rookie corners, we might need to cry uncle by the third quarter?

Orton and the WR corp must have a banner day and Clady must shut down Freeney for us to have a snow ball's chance this Sunday Im afraid.

I never wish injuries on another team's player, but must admit I wouldn't lose any sleep if Manning just happened to jamb a few throwing fingers on a helmet in practice this week :-). Nothing serious mind you, just enough to turn him into an ordinary joe for a week or two, or better yet holding the clip board for his backup next Sunday. Just kidding .. (sort of :)

Maybe DT will be the great equalizer with 3 TD catches and 200 yards recieving as he toys with the Colt DBs?

oubronco
09-20-2010, 06:26 PM
Indy's defense looked pretty good last night i'm not sure we can score alot of points

SouthStndJunkie
09-20-2010, 06:33 PM
Ideas to fix the defense?

There are no short and quick fixes.

Be patient....don't freak out and get a new defensive coordinator this year if Josh doesn't like the results....we need some continuity and stability.

Build the front seven and get Dumervil healthy and upgrade the talent level.

In order to get a dominant defense, we need to draft well and develop that talent.

It's not rocket science and it won't happen overnight.

The best short term fix for the defense is playing solid turnover free ball on offense and special teams....you do that and you will have some leads and force the opposing offense to get one dimensional, like we forced Seattle to do yesterday.

colonelbeef
09-20-2010, 07:31 PM
Thats why we drafted or brought in Cox, Squid and Vaughn .... Vaughn may well develop into a Goodman like corner, though a bit taller and faster. Cox may approach Champ level if he keeps progressing. Doubt he ever makes it all the way to Champ status in his prime, but could well be Champ's eventual replacement when Champ moves to free safety and our top corner for years to come?

We need one more stud corner in either FA or in the next two drafts and we'll be fine long term.

I just hope the three rookies dont get too scarred next week if they have to start in place of Champ and Goodie?!? Ala what happened to what's his name from 6 years ago or so ... Roc Alexander!

What a game in which we could desparately use Doom!!! Without any pressure on Manning and three rookie corners, we might need to cry uncle by the third quarter?

Orton and the WR corp must have a banner day and Clady must shut down Freeney for us to have a snow ball's chance this Sunday Im afraid.

I never wish injuries on another team's player, but must admit I wouldn't lose any sleep if Manning just happened to jamb a few throwing fingers on a helmet in practice this week :-). Nothing serious mind you, just enough to turn him into an ordinary joe for a week or two, or better yet holding the clip board for his backup next Sunday. Just kidding .. (sort of :)

Maybe DT will be the great equalizer with 3 TD catches and 200 yards recieving as he toys with the Colt DBs?

Manning essentially embarrassed the Giants last night, and they have a dominant DL compared to Denver currently... no rush up the middle= Peyton going for 350 and 3 with ease unfortunately

rugbythug
09-20-2010, 07:46 PM
Not sure why folks would want blitzes in the last 2 games.

Jax was not winning through the air (170 Pass yds)-They won via Special Teams and Ball control even with the 3 td passes.

SEA was behind quickly. Not a good time to blitz unless you are invested in letting them back in the game.

fontaine
09-21-2010, 03:28 AM
Ideas to fix the defense?

There are no short and quick fixes.

Be patient....don't freak out and get a new defensive coordinator this year if Josh doesn't like the results....we need some continuity and stability.

Build the front seven and get Dumervil healthy and upgrade the talent level.

In order to get a dominant defense, we need to draft well and develop that talent.

It's not rocket science and it won't happen overnight.

The best short term fix for the defense is playing solid turnover free ball on offense and special teams....you do that and you will have some leads and force the opposing offense to get one dimensional, like we forced Seattle to do yesterday.


This is it.

We've already got three good starters along the front seven in Dumervil, Ayers, and DJ. In a lot of ways we've done the hard part for a 3-4 in finding solid OLBs that can rush the QB.

We've got a great DL, in terms of backups because that's all we have there. Keep the continuity with Wink, guys like McBean/Bannan/Haggans/Thomas and then grab two DL, one that can at least penetrate a bit and hope to hell they pan out.

I wouldn't mind trading for a pretty good DL in the offseason either as long as they're not over 30.