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View Full Version : How long will it take for Bey Bey to take Gaffney's starting spot?


SoCalBronco
09-19-2010, 07:55 PM
It appears that Royal has now settled into a real comfort zone at the slot WR spot in this system and Lloyd has made enough big plays to cement himself at one of the outside spots. Gaffney on the other hand has been half and half. He hasn't been bad but he hasn't been any kind of a force at the other starting WR spot. Given Bey Bey's performance today and the fact that his natural ability absolutely dwarfs that of Jabar Gaffney.....how long do you think it will be until Thomas takes his starting spot?

~Crash~
09-19-2010, 07:58 PM
since the draft ....

theAPAOps5
09-19-2010, 07:58 PM
since the draft ....

Oh he started game 1? I thought he was inactive. I am kidding and see your point!

Br0nc0Buster
09-19-2010, 08:04 PM
well I guess that would mean Lloyd would move over to the X and Thomas would take the Z right?

My guess is until Thomas gets comfortable with the playbook.

Im gonna say 4-5 weeks until he is in the starting lineup

DivineBronco
09-19-2010, 08:08 PM
I agree with what you are saying 100 percent but the way the offense uses WR I wonder if it even matters at this point who starts and who plays where.

~Crash~
09-19-2010, 08:10 PM
well I guess that would mean Lloyd would move over to the X and Thomas would take the Z right?

My guess is until Thomas gets comfortable with the playbook.

Im gonna say 4-5 weeks until he is in the starting lineup

About right .. I was joking really it don't matter much hr looked the same in college if you think his highlights in college . his Smoke Rout is why he was drafted IMO .

Lev Vyvanse
09-19-2010, 08:25 PM
This is one of those good problems.

Rohirrim
09-19-2010, 08:26 PM
Uh, next week? Do I win anything?

Bronco Boy
09-19-2010, 08:29 PM
He's going to rock the bubble screen for years to come, that's for sure.

oubronco
09-19-2010, 08:31 PM
Good grief it was his first pro game

SoCalBronco
09-19-2010, 08:36 PM
Uh, next week? Do I win anything?

You can have Reggie Bush's tainted Heisman, Roh. ;D

Actually, I hope you are right. I'd like to see him starting as soon as possible. He's on a totally different plane, talent wise, than our other recievers. I was getting ticked off when they were taking him out of the game. This kid is great to watch and he's a guy that people will have to scheme for.

theAPAOps5
09-19-2010, 08:40 PM
Good grief it was his first pro game

And he was a beast. Big, fast, and quick. Pretty rare to have all that. But it was his first start so you can't take that performance for anything, right?

mwill07
09-19-2010, 08:41 PM
Bey Bey is going to cause opposing D's to have a safety deep to shadow him. single coverage isn't gonna get it done.

That will open up the whole offense for Royal underneath and give Moreno some room to run.

It feels to me like the passing offense is complete and firing on all cylinders. The running game feels lethargic, but I chalk that up to the O-line's youth/injuries.

bloodsunday
09-19-2010, 08:45 PM
He's only been healthy for one game. And now that he's "on film", he won't be able to surprise people anymore.

He looked AWESOME, but I just think we should check expectations until he puts a few games together in a row.

baja
09-19-2010, 08:46 PM
You can have Reggie Bush's tainted Heisman, Roh. ;D

Actually, I hope you are right. I'd like to see him starting as soon as possible. He's on a totally different plane, talent wise, than our other recievers. I was getting ticked off when they were taking him out of the game. This kid is great to watch and he's a guy that people will have to scheme for.

Remember his healing ankle, I'm glad they spelled him. In fact I was wishing they would but in Tebow late in the 4th to give Orton a rest on a record hot day in Denver.

extralife
09-19-2010, 08:54 PM
He'll take Lloyd's spot, not Gaffney's.

theAPAOps5
09-19-2010, 08:55 PM
He's only been healthy for one game. And now that he's "on film", he won't be able to surprise people anymore.

He looked AWESOME, but I just think we should check expectations until he puts a few games together in a row.

Yeah because film makes up for size and speed. Dude he didn't run special routes or anything. Thats what is amazing! But hey downplay a potential damn fine player.

chex
09-19-2010, 08:56 PM
Well, hopefully he can continue to dominate now that teams know who he is and he won't be sneaking up on anyone after today.

Dedhed
09-19-2010, 09:00 PM
now that he's "on film", he won't be able to surprise people anymore.

Which will make the ENTIRE offense better when DCs say "WHOA, we better watch out for this kid".

Exactly what you want as an OC.

ChSuperStar
09-19-2010, 09:01 PM
He's only been healthy for one game. And now that he's "on film", he won't be able to surprise people anymore.

He looked AWESOME, but I just think we should check expectations until he puts a few games together in a row.

/sarcasam

I never knew all his film from GTECH was lost/stolen/destroyed

/end sarcasam

colonelbeef
09-19-2010, 09:07 PM
He'll take Lloyd's spot, not Gaffney's.

Has to be the case... his skill set resembles those of LLoyd, and Orton has a decent level of comfort with Gaffney you don't want to take away

HEAV
09-19-2010, 09:34 PM
While I feel Bay Bay will still receptions from all three starters. I also feel that Gaff has too much knowledge of this system and finds ways of getting into the open holes.

baja
09-19-2010, 09:38 PM
can you imagine what our 4 wide receiver sets are going to do in this league?

KevinJames
09-19-2010, 09:40 PM
Its Bay Bay not Bey Bey:spit:

theAPAOps5
09-19-2010, 09:43 PM
Its Bay Bay not Bey Bey:spit:

Actually its Demaryius Thomas :spit:

lostknight
09-19-2010, 09:43 PM
D.T has superstar written all over him. In bright red, blinking underlined letters. From opening day of camp when I watched him absolutely school champ, you knew this kid was going to be special.

SouthStndJunkie
09-19-2010, 09:44 PM
I still think we need to limit his number of plays for a few weeks and let that foot heal up as much as possible.

Let's not get greedy and set him back again.

HEAV
09-19-2010, 09:46 PM
Its Bay Bay not Bey Bey:spit:

True dat!

http://www.joshdweiss.com/photoblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/091114_JDW_GTDuke_0193.jpg

See the tats on the biceps.

HEAV
09-19-2010, 09:48 PM
I still think we need to limit his number of plays for a few weeks and let that foot heal up as much as possible.

Let's not get greedy and set him back again.

I agree it was nice today to see hime fly'n around and taking hits.

But it's more of a luxury to have him playing now.

broncocalijohn
09-19-2010, 09:49 PM
He'll take Lloyd's spot, not Gaffney's.

this. We can have 3 WR out there on many plays. He will be soon enough top 3. Gaffney shouldnt go anywhere. Different teams have diff. looks. We have seen guys make 8 catches then hardly get the ball thrown to them the next game.

baja
09-19-2010, 09:52 PM
I still think we need to limit his number of plays for a few weeks and let that foot heal up as much as possible.

Let's not get greedy and set him back again.

This and in spades.

He has the kind of injury that if you are not careful with him he can re-injure that ankle in a way that diminishes his whole career.

NeverBeenToDenver
09-19-2010, 09:54 PM
The ankle's fine. C'mon...win football games!!! Gimme gimme gimme.

baja
09-19-2010, 09:57 PM
I remember when we rushed TD back. How'd that work out

Al Wilson too.

nickademus
09-19-2010, 09:58 PM
my guess is that he will become a staple in the red zone but as far as replacing anyone I doubt that happens with the way we are spreading the ball around. He may get more looks than some but replace, probably not.

BowlenBall
09-19-2010, 10:06 PM
True dat!

http://www.joshdweiss.com/photoblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/091114_JDW_GTDuke_0193.jpg

See the tats on the biceps.

Holy mother of God, that's a big man!

Kaylore
09-19-2010, 10:12 PM
Demarius is fine. Quit with hand-wringing.

theAPAOps5
09-19-2010, 10:16 PM
Holy mother of God, that's a big man!

Man you have no idea! This guy is a TE body with a Randy Moss ability. Only worry about him was how he would run routes. I think he will be just fine and will give Denver a ton of options!

baja
09-19-2010, 10:23 PM
Demarius is fine. Quit with hand-wringing.

"Thomas, who missed all of the preseason and last week's opener after aggravating his<b> surgically-repaired left foot</b> during a scrimmage last month, hauled in Orton's 21-yard touchdown pass to make it 31-7 and cap his smashing debut."

That is a very tricky surgery not good to rush him back IMO. Spell him plenty is all I'm saying.

theAPAOps5
09-19-2010, 10:25 PM
I think that maybe his foot isn't that bad. Remember when Marshall ruled himself out and Shanahan looked at the MRI and told Marshall he is fine.

Sometimes rookies don't know that you have to play hurt and I think Thomas will be a factor the rest of the season.

I for one think it will be fun that guy is an amazing talent!

Requiem
09-19-2010, 10:32 PM
His foot sure looked good out there today, he was breaking in and out of his cuts with quickness and precision. He did extremely well. Very proud of him.

Broncobiv
09-19-2010, 10:53 PM
Well, he's already taken Gaffney's spot on my fantasy team! Dropped Gaffney today to pick up DT. As my 4th WR, I figure it's better to take a risk with the high-ceiling rook than to stick with Gaffney's consistent, but hardly jaw-dropping numbers.

Al Wilson
09-19-2010, 11:00 PM
We haven't even seen Decker in the mix yet

Houshyamama
09-19-2010, 11:25 PM
Well, hopefully he can continue to dominate now that teams know who he is and he won't be sneaking up on anyone after today.

Did you see the size of 'im? I doubt he's ever snuck up on anybody in his life.

Florida_Bronco
09-19-2010, 11:28 PM
well I guess that would mean Lloyd would move over to the X and Thomas would take the Z right?

My guess is until Thomas gets comfortable with the playbook.

Im gonna say 4-5 weeks until he is in the starting lineup

The Z is the slot receiver. That's Royal's spot. Lloyd and Thomas are both X receivers with Decker and Gaffney the Y receivers. With that in mind, Demaryius is more of a threat to Lloyd than Gaffney.

TheReverend
09-19-2010, 11:29 PM
He'll take Lloyd's spot, not Gaffney's.

Doubtful

TheReverend
09-19-2010, 11:30 PM
The Z is the slot receiver. That's Royal's spot. Lloyd and Thomas are both X receivers with Decker and Gaffney the Y receivers. With that in mind, Demaryius is more of a threat to Lloyd than Gaffney.

I'm going to explode.

I've explained this to you 20 times dude.

The Z is NOT the slot receiver. The "Y" is the tight end/slot receiver.

Please just stop.

extralife
09-19-2010, 11:31 PM
I watched Lloyd for years, man. Just you wait.

TheReverend
09-19-2010, 11:33 PM
I watched Lloyd for years, man. Just you wait.

Oh I fully agree with his past. I didn't like signing him even for depth.

That being said... he's played well AND consistently so far. Much more so than Gaffney this season.

TheReverend
09-19-2010, 11:34 PM
well I guess that would mean Lloyd would move over to the X and Thomas would take the Z right?

My guess is until Thomas gets comfortable with the playbook.

Im gonna say 4-5 weeks until he is in the starting lineup

I think it's more dependent on who they want to get a free release off the line than growing comfortable with the playbook.

footstepsfrom#27
09-19-2010, 11:36 PM
"Thomas, who missed all of the preseason and last week's opener after aggravating his<b> surgically-repaired left foot</b> during a scrimmage last month, hauled in Orton's 21-yard touchdown pass to make it 31-7 and cap his smashing debut."

That is a very tricky surgery not good to rush him back IMO. Spell him plenty is all I'm saying.
Definitely need to take it a bit easy with him in spite of the big debut.

Florida_Bronco
09-19-2010, 11:55 PM
I'm going to explode.

I've explained this to you 20 times dude.

The Z is NOT the slot receiver. The "Y" is the tight end/slot receiver.

Please just stop.

You would be correct if this was a WCO team still, where the slot guy is the #3, but that's not the case. In both New England with Welker and here now in Denver with Royal, Josh has used the typical slot receiver as his #2 only actually bumping them down into the slot when we go 3 or 4 wide, hence "Z" label.

TheReverend
09-20-2010, 12:01 AM
You would be correct if this was a WCO team still, where the slot guy is the #3, but that's not the case. In both New England with Welker and here now in Denver with Royal, Josh has used the typical slot receiver as his #2 only actually bumping them down into the slot when we go 3 or 4 wide, hence "Z" label.

rofl

Please... post a link even alluding to this.

Spoiler: It doesn't exist.

While these offenses certainly do treat the slot receiver as a #2 option, the position designations mean something. X is a split end, Y is a tight end/slot receiver, and Z is a flanker. It's also indicative of how they line up.

What you're saying is akin to "McDaniels renamed the 2 hole a 4 hole and the 6 hole is now a 2". It's absurd **** that I guarantee you is completely false.

TheReverend
09-20-2010, 12:04 AM
Hey guys, McDaniels now calls the guards centers and the center a guard. So Kuper is now playing Right Center. I swear!

/FloridaBronco

The MVPlaya
09-20-2010, 12:10 AM
If the 2004 Patriots playbook is any indication of how McDaniels labels his WR's, then the slot receiver is labeled at Z at times. When a tight end is in hee's the Y then the slot is Z.

I'm trying to scroll through and look to find a formation without a TE to see if the "slot" is still Z... but here is some examples:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3640/screenshot20100919at110.png

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3640/screenshot20100919at110.png

The MVPlaya
09-20-2010, 12:12 AM
There is also formations where the Z is lined out wide too...

TheReverend
09-20-2010, 12:12 AM
If the 2004 Patriots playbook is any indication of how McDaniels labels his WR's, then the slot receiver is labeled at Z at times. When a tight end is in hee's the Y then the slot is Z.

I'm trying to scroll through and look to find a formation without a TE to see if the "slot" is still Z... but here is some examples:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3640/screenshot20100919at110.png

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3640/screenshot20100919at110.png

Yes, that's indicative of the TE as I said earlier. Y is tight end/slot receiver. A tight end flexed out is called Y-open.

I would be down right stunned if you found a 3 receiver set without the TE where he's labeled Z thats for certain.

Florida_Bronco
09-20-2010, 12:15 AM
While these offenses certainly do treat the slot receiver as a #2 option, the position designations mean something. X is a split end, Y is a tight end/slot receiver, and Z is a flanker. It's also indicative of how they line up. Ok, so what happens when the split end (Lloyd) lines up off the LOS in the slot like he did against Jacksonville? Is he no longer the X receiver then?

Honest question.

The MVPlaya
09-20-2010, 12:15 AM
all Florida Broncos said was that Royal is indicated as the Z receiver...in which if you believe these plays are indicative of what happens now, is correct.

TheReverend
09-20-2010, 12:20 AM
Ok, so what happens when the split end (Lloyd) lines up off the LOS in the slot like he did against Jacksonville? Is he no longer the X receiver then?

Honest question.

Strictly speaking? No. An "X" by definition plays on the LOS. In this day and age in the NFL they all need to be able to play each WR "position" fluently to take advantage of match-ups, and that's what they do. Specific roles are a thing of the past... like the 3 down safety.

all Florida Broncos said was that Royal is indicated as the Z receiver...in which if you believe these plays are indicative of what happens now, is correct.

Depending on formation, true... but then he also called one of our wide outs a TE.

The MVPlaya
09-20-2010, 12:22 AM
From everything I've seen, it looks like the TE is indicated as Y every play and the "slot" or whatever you want to call it is Z...however Z does line up wide on some plays

Here is another play with Z in the "slot"

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8964/screenshot20100919at112.png

The MVPlaya
09-20-2010, 12:24 AM
here is a play where Z lines out wide

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/8964/screenshot20100919at112.png

TheReverend
09-20-2010, 12:25 AM
From everything I've seen, it looks like the TE is indicated as Y every play and the "slot" or whatever you want to call it is Z...however Z does line up wide on some plays

Here is another play with Z in the "slot"

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8964/screenshot20100919at112.png

The thing that surprises me most about those plays is that they have that many where the TE runs a route! I see New England let a TE run a route instead of blocking maybe 1:10 plays

TheReverend
09-20-2010, 12:25 AM
here is a play where Z lines out wide

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/8964/screenshot20100919at112.png

That's standard.

The MVPlaya
09-20-2010, 12:26 AM
Here is a play where Z is lined outside of X

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/5231/screenshot20100919at112e.png

NeverBeenToDenver
09-20-2010, 12:28 AM
I remember when we rushed TD back. How'd that work out

Al Wilson too.

I got you, man. No need to run him ragged; the last people on earth who want to see him get hurt are the Bronco org people.

Tough to compare a shredded knee and iffy neck structure to an off season foot surgery that was deemed by all parties involved as a very recoverable procedure.

Shoot, start him now. Let's see Orton beat the baby horsies at their own game.

This is good, very good, If they hit on that pick, a lot of things change. Could be momentum McD needs to get everyone behind him.

They need to throw the ball around without abandoning the run. Kind of reminds me of a certain 3 time champ.

The MVPlaya
09-20-2010, 12:30 AM
Depending on formation, true... but then he also called one of our wide outs a TE.

I haven't found 1 play where the Y is the slot receiver (as in Eddie Royal/Wes Welker would be lined up there).

It is what it is, someone had a good explanation for how this system uses their WR labeling before... if I remember Royal (or whomever) is always labeled as Z.

Florida_Bronco
09-20-2010, 12:33 AM
Strictly speaking? No. An "X" by definition plays on the LOS. In this day and age in the NFL they all need to be able to play each WR "position" fluently to take advantage of match-ups, and that's what they do. Specific roles are a thing of the past... like the 3 down safety. See I guess that's where the confusion comes from. I've always been under the impression that even if a player lines up differently, say when your tight end is split out and off the line of scrimmage, that they would still maintain the same designation.

The MVPlaya
09-20-2010, 12:36 AM
See I guess that's where the confusion comes from. I've always been under the impression that even if a player lines up differently, say when your tight end is split out and off the line of scrimmage, that they would still maintain the same designation.

That's what it looks like according to this playbook.

Florida_Bronco
09-20-2010, 12:38 AM
I haven't found 1 play where the Y is the slot receiver (as in Eddie Royal/Wes Welker would be lined up there).

It is what it is, someone had a good explanation for how this system uses their WR labeling before... if I remember Royal (or whomever) is always labeled as Z.

There's a lot of formations in there where both the Y and the Z are lined up in slot positions. I didn't find a single 3 wide formation in there without the tight end either, like Rev suggested, so I can't tell there.

TheReverend
09-20-2010, 12:39 AM
See I guess that's where the confusion comes from. I've always been under the impression that even if a player lines up differently, say when your tight end is split out and off the line of scrimmage, that they would still maintain the same designation.

A tight end splitting out (termed Y-open) doesn't effect whether a formation is legal or not like taking someone off the line of scrimmage.

TheReverend
09-20-2010, 12:41 AM
Anyways, interesting finds MVP, and long story short, can we please just stop using the ****ing letters in discussion where it's 100% unnecessary to begin with?

Florida_Bronco
09-20-2010, 12:45 AM
Anyways, interesting finds MVP, and long story short, can we please just stop using the ****ing letters in discussion where it's 100% unnecessary to begin with?

Lol, deal. Interesting discussion though. Thanks for clearing up the misconceptions.

Do you have those playbooks that me and MVP have? If you're interested, someone posted a link here during the offseason with a bunch of playbooks in PDF. I downloaded all of the Weis/Patriot ones and the Shanahan/Bronco ones as well. Might be something for you to check out.

The MVPlaya
09-20-2010, 12:48 AM
Anyways, interesting finds MVP, and long story short, can we please just stop using the ****ing letters in discussion where it's 100% unnecessary to begin with?

:thumbsup:

Cito Pelon
09-20-2010, 01:28 AM
His foot sure looked good out there today, he was breaking in and out of his cuts with quickness and precision. He did extremely well. Very proud of him.

He was where he was supposed to be, and Orton was delivering the ball on time. Those two were in a good rhythm.

Quoydogs
09-20-2010, 03:29 AM
rofl

Please... post a link even alluding to this.

Spoiler: It doesn't exist.

While these offenses certainly do treat the slot receiver as a #2 option, the position designations mean something. X is a split end, Y is a tight end/slot receiver, and Z is a flanker. It's also indicative of how they line up.

What you're saying is akin to "McDaniels renamed the 2 hole a 4 hole and the 6 hole is now a 2". It's absurd **** that I guarantee you is completely false.

So what position are the square,O, and the triangle ? I'm a PS3 kinda guy !Booya!

Mogulseeker
09-20-2010, 03:47 AM
well I guess that would mean Lloyd would move over to the X and Thomas would take the Z right?

My guess is until Thomas gets comfortable with the playbook.

Im gonna say 4-5 weeks until he is in the starting lineup

I can see Thomas playing the X, actually. A big body... if he can block the opens a world of opportunity for Royal - and vice versa.

UberBroncoMan
09-20-2010, 04:31 AM
He'll take Lloyd's spot, not Gaffney's.

Yep, Gaffney's is for Decker or Willis to take.

tsiguy96
09-20-2010, 04:40 AM
we should get back to talking about why mcdaniels is a retard who is the worst drafter of all time.

The MVPlaya
09-20-2010, 04:49 AM
Decker has actually been learning Royal's role in the offense. Hence in the last pre-season game of the season where Quinn was hooking up with him play after play.

Decker's gloves and football IQ to find the open holes on defense suits him well for that spot.

However I think he can play Gaf or Royals role when it's all said and done...

Drek
09-20-2010, 05:13 AM
Anyways, interesting finds MVP, and long story short, can we please just stop using the ****ing letters in discussion where it's 100% unnecessary to begin with?

This is what I've been saying.

McDaniels lines his WRs up in so many different formations, all with different terminology attached. Trying to keep up isn't just nearly impossible, its also entirely pointless. In New England he'd refer to Welker as the Y and the Z within the stretch of one interview, and Moss as the X or the Z. This is because depending on the play there might have been some small tweak that made one label a better fit for each WR than the other, but then you get into how you name guys on a 20 set with no backers, or a 21 set with an eligible OL.

Just refer to them by their roles. Gaffney is the short to intermediate guy who's supposed to move the chains, same role he had in New England and what Marshall did for us last year. Royal is the short routes YAC guy much like Welker in NE. Lloyd is the field stretcher who opens up the secondary to let Gaffney and Royal work underneath on corners without safety help or zones the defense can't step up and fill holes in.

Decker is probably best suited for Gaffney's role, but he's likely going to get some time in behind Royal too, since we don't have Stokley and Decker has shown some very good lateral agility and quickness.

Thomas is ideally the replacement for Lloyd because lets be honest, a 6'3", 230 pound WR who runs like a ****ing gazelle is just about the perfect field stretcher. But at the same time he's also very good at using his size to make completions in tight coverage, an ideal skill for first down production, so he's likely going to see some time in Gaffney's role as well.

What will be really fun is when you incorporate Tebow into that mix, in 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB sets or 4 WR, 1 RB sets where the defense gets spread out and Tebow has room to run. Then defenses start thinking they need a QB spy, opening up holes in the 5-15 area. Not to mention that Tebow's best asset as a passer is his natural feel for the deep ball.

McDaniels' plans for this offense are very exciting. He looks to be taking more inspiration from Urban Meyer than from Charlie Weiss. The real finisher here would be establishing a running game with Moreno and co. that New England could never get going. Then we'll start to really put some points up on people.

Better yet, imagine what a defense pairing Doom and Ayers on the outsides can do when they're up by two or more touchdowns.

McDaniels has a damn good plan in mind for all phases of this team. Now he needs to show himself to be a good enough personnel man and to have picked out good enough assistants to make it happen.

Que
09-20-2010, 08:01 AM
Premature this is.

Rohirrim
09-20-2010, 09:11 AM
I don't want Lloyd going anywhere either. He's been making some amazing catches.

Dedhed
09-20-2010, 09:16 AM
Premature this is.

Is it as premature as calling Thomas a wasted pick?

Br0nc0Buster
09-20-2010, 10:06 AM
I think it's more dependent on who they want to get a free release off the line than growing comfortable with the playbook.

my point is that Gaffney has such a feel for the offense and knows so much that it is really hard to pull him off the field while Thomas still is getting used to reading NFL defenses and making the correct adjustments

not that it matters if he starts right now, I think he will still get plenty of playing time