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View Full Version : Think Josh pooped the bed with the Smith pick?


baja
09-15-2010, 01:03 AM
http://www.xtrapointfootball.com/20100321280/2010-archives/march/nfl-draft-busts-top-50.html

Man-Goblin
09-15-2010, 01:28 AM
Obviously not an updated list. Jamarcus isn't number 1 and Alphonso Smith isn't number 2.

Blueflame
09-15-2010, 01:33 AM
http://www.xtrapointfootball.com/20100321280/2010-archives/march/nfl-draft-busts-top-50.html

I don't agree with the rankings... Rick Mirer all the way down at #18? And JaMarcus Russell at #14? And where's Todd Marinovich? If he was on there, I missed seeing it.

Dunno if you can consider a player a "bust" when injuries are the reason why they didn't live up to expectations (such as Steve Emtman). That's a whole different ball game than attitude problems, weight gain and simple apathy derailing a career the minute the college standout gets a big payday.

Also... isn't it a tad early to apply the "bust" label to Alex Smith? ???

The MVPlaya
09-15-2010, 03:50 AM
Also... isn't it a tad early to apply the "bust" label to Alex Smith? ???

He's going into his 6th season in the NFL.

Go ask any niners fan about him.

broncogary
09-15-2010, 05:21 AM
http://www.xtrapointfootball.com/20100321280/2010-archives/march/nfl-draft-busts-top-50.html

This is northeast bias. There's not a single Denver draft pick on the list!:D

Lev Vyvanse
09-15-2010, 08:23 AM
This is northeast bias. There's not a single Denver draft pick on the list!:D

We signed two of those guys and traded for another.

bendog
09-15-2010, 08:28 AM
What a fail. lol

Rohirrim
09-15-2010, 08:28 AM
Looks like they may have to remove Mike Williams (WR) from that list, at least from the looks of last week's game. I also don't consider guys like Courtney Brown busts. They just had bad luck, especially with the injury bug. Fonze was a flop, though. Dumb, dumb pick. BTW, we can watch Earl Thomas this weekend. ;D

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-15-2010, 08:49 AM
I have a problem with writers who are unable to use past tense when writing about things that happened in the past.

/shudder

Drek
09-15-2010, 09:00 AM
Think Josh pooped the bed with the Smith pick?

No, Smith was projected as a late first to early second CB. We needed a CB, he fit the system we were looking to put in place, and he was good value in the early 2nd.

He pooped the bed when he traded a future 1st. This is why he did so much draft day jockeying this past season. He wanted Tebow and Thomas but he wasn't going to give up a future 1st to make it happen.

McDaniels and Xanders one real draft mistake was trading a future 1st for a 2nd. The points make sense but its rarely a move teams look back on happily. They got over anxious and learned their lesson. You can see that in this year's draft when they worked quite diligently to only give up future value when they knew it was worth it, like splitting a future 5th into two 7ths.

extralife
09-15-2010, 09:01 AM
He's going into his 6th season in the NFL.

Go ask any niners fan about him.

Yeah, I don't really want to talk about Alex Smith.

bendog
09-15-2010, 09:07 AM
No, Smith was projected as a late first to early second CB. We needed a CB, he fit the system we were looking to put in place, and he was good value in the early 2nd.

He pooped the bed when he traded a future 1st. This is why he did so much draft day jockeying this past season. He wanted Tebow and Thomas but he wasn't going to give up a future 1st to make it happen.

McDaniels and Xanders one real draft mistake was trading a future 1st for a 2nd. The points make sense but its rarely a move teams look back on happily. They got over anxious and learned their lesson. You can see that in this year's draft when they worked quite diligently to only give up future value when they knew it was worth it, like splitting a future 5th into two 7ths.

Ah, no. He didn't project into the first. He projected as a second rd pick, and Den took him about where he was slotted to go, but they used a first rounder to trade into the spot. But be that as it may. McDaniels took a flier, and move on. Baja's just mowing McDaniel's yard today for whatever reason by starting threads for spin.

broncswin
09-15-2010, 09:10 AM
yes he did...move on and learn from it...end thread

Drek
09-15-2010, 09:16 AM
Ah, no. He didn't project into the first. He projected as a second rd pick, and Den took him about where he was slotted to go, but they used a first rounder to trade into the spot. But be that as it may. McDaniels took a flier, and move on. Baja's just mowing McDaniel's yard today for whatever reason by starting threads for spin.

Smith was widely considered one of the best CBs in his draft class. The Broncos in fact had said they had him listed as a late 1st rounder. Various draft prognosticators had him as a late 1st/early 2nd type. Just the facts there man.

The trade was the mistake. Player selection was not. Alphonso Smith was a hard nosed, 110% effort CB in college who for some reason was not ready to step his game up to the NFL level mentally. He looked to have everything you want, but for some guys the light doesn't come on. This pre-season it looked like it started to for Smith, but by then younger guys had caught up to him (Thompson and Vaughn, with Cox passing him).

Look at the list Baja put up. Mandarich isn't a bust you can blame on those who picked him. He had everything you'd look for in a OL prospect, from physical talents to collegiate credentials. He just happened to be a steroid fueled headcase. Teams work hard to gauge the mental make up of prospects but is far from an exact science.

Guys come into the NFL all the time who say the right things and do the right things in college but once they get NFL money the foot comes off the gas pedal. All you can do is hope you don't wind up with one of those guys.

bendog
09-15-2010, 09:34 AM
Yeah, I don't really want to talk about Alex Smith.

A. Smith is the guy who scares me about Tebow. Smith qbed the running utes in the mountian west where they had that four corner spread offense UNDER URBAN MEYER that isn't somethign to prepare a guy for the nfl. I think Tebow will be ok just with work ethic, though, and I never really liked the chanes of Smith. It was sort of like SF needed a qb, and they had the no1 overall pick, and Smith was the top guy in a bad year.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_round/1.html

Ironically, this was the draft where Shanny raped Washington over the Jason Campell pick.

'Campbell was drafted as the 25th pick in the 2005 NFL Draft by the Washington Redskins under General Manager Vinny Cerrato. The Redskins traded up in the draft to get Campbell, surrendering a third round pick in the 2005 NFL draft, along with first and fourth round picks in 2006.[2]" (Den ended up with Paymah, and Brandon Marshall, but Shanny did something with the no 1 pick and ended up taking Cutler by moving up somehow)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Campbell

And Aaron Rodgers fell all the way to Green Bay, and he's the best of class.

bendog
09-15-2010, 09:35 AM
just let it go. and go on washing McDaniels' cars. But the fact is A.Smith rated as somewhere in the top 40 picks. maycock had him as the 4th best corner. McDaniels traded the FOURTEENTH OVERALL PICK to take the guy AT THIRTYSEVEN and the draft guys lauged their asses off. Taking this guy with THE FOURTEENTH OVERALL PICK WAS A FREAKING REACH.

McDaniels took a flier and gave up more value to take the guy about where he was ALWAYS SLOTTED. Jesus, the catholics don't defend the frigging pope like you guys. lol

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80dff358&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

MOCRUSH
09-15-2010, 10:35 AM
http://www.xtrapointfootball.com/20100321280/2010-archives/march/nfl-draft-busts-top-50.html

"The parameters

Players must have been drafted in 1970 or later, when the NFL and AFL officially joined, and must have been picked in the top 10.

Given those parameters, here are the top 50 Biggest NFL Draft Busts as chosen by our staff."

If Smith not making this list is supposed to be evidence that Josh did not poop the bed I am going to need to see a little something more.

Blueflame
09-15-2010, 11:01 AM
He's going into his 6th season in the NFL.

Go ask any niners fan about him.

Doesn't matter... he's still a starting QB in the NFL. I don't think you can apply a "bust" label unless or until some career backup outplays him and takes the starting job away. I'd say the jury's still out on Smith although the clock is ticking. It won't surprise me a bit if SF takes that division this year though.

Jay3
09-15-2010, 11:11 AM
Jamarcus should be #1 all time. Number one overall, one of the quickest cuts of all time for a #1 quarterback, and absolutely zero flashes of success. Just nothing except a win over the Broncos.

Drek
09-15-2010, 11:32 AM
just let it go. and go on washing McDaniels' cars. But the fact is A.Smith rated as somewhere in the top 40 picks. maycock had him as the 4th best corner. McDaniels traded the FOURTEENTH OVERALL PICK to take the guy AT THIRTYSEVEN and the draft guys lauged their asses off. Taking this guy with THE FOURTEENTH OVERALL PICK WAS A FREAKING REACH.

McDaniels took a flier and gave up more value to take the guy about where he was ALWAYS SLOTTED. Jesus, the catholics don't defend the frigging pope like you guys. lol

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80dff358&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
So you agree that Smith was a legitimate top 40 prospect. Great.

McDaniels wheeled and dealed the first year by the draft value chart. After the Smith trade he realized that draft value charts don't mean ****. Hence why this year he gave up points to move down (twice), gave up points to make sure he got Tebow without giving up 2010 picks to do so, and then when he saw an opportunity to split a future pick (our 2010 5th) into two players in this year's draft he jumped on it.

In short, he screwed up bad with his first big draft trade and he's aware of that fact.

On the subject of draft value charts and that last trade we made in the draft: Instead of going by the draft value charts teams need to realize that anything past about the 3rd is a fungible pick you can easily replace. Its the top 3 rounds that hold the real value, and you've got to treat those picks accordingly. Once you're out of the top 3 rounds quantity is far more important than quality. I'd take three sevenths over a single 4th any day of the week if my team had the roster spots open that needed filling. But the draft value chart would tell you I'm crazy to do so.

randomtask
09-15-2010, 11:58 AM
Jamarcus should be #1 all time. Number one overall, one of the quickest cuts of all time for a #1 quarterback, and absolutely zero flashes of success. Just nothing except a win over the Broncos.

Gonna have to disagree here. Jamarcus was terrible, but his stats are still far better than those of Ryan Leaf.

Leaf only won 4 games in his career, a little more than half the number that Russell won. Winning percentage for Leaf is a little more than 19%; for Russell, 28%. Leaf completed less than 50% of his passes for his career (48.4), while Russell at least completed more than half for his career (52.1). Touchdowns to interceptions, Russell dominated Leaf (18/23 compared to 14/36).

The biggest thing is that the Chargers actually traded up to get Leaf. They gave up 2 first round picks, a second rounder, and a 4 time pro bowler in Eric Metcalf. To tell the truth, I doubt there will be another bust that was the equal of the Ryan Leaf failure in my lifetime.

Blueflame
09-15-2010, 12:08 PM
Gonna have to disagree here. Jamarcus was terrible, but his stats are still far better than those of Ryan Leaf.

Leaf only won 4 games in his career, a little more than half the number that Russell won. Winning percentage for Leaf is a little more than 19%; for Russell, 28%. Leaf completed less than 50% of his passes for his career (48.4), while Russell at least completed more than half for his career (52.1). Touchdowns to interceptions, Russell dominated Leaf (18/23 compared to 14/36).

The biggest thing is that the Chargers actually traded up to get Leaf. They gave up 2 first round picks, a second rounder, and a 4 time pro bowler in Eric Metcalf. To tell the truth, I doubt there will be another bust that was the equal of the Ryan Leaf failure in my lifetime.

Perhaps... but in light of what the Raiders gave up for JaMarshmallow... and the expectations they had for him (#1 overall as opposed to #2 overall), there's no way he should come in anywhere below the second-biggest draft bust ever... even if one does concede Leaf at #1.

randomtask
09-15-2010, 12:28 PM
Perhaps... but in light of what the Raiders gave up for JaMarshmallow... and the expectations they had for him (#1 overall as opposed to #2 overall), there's no way he should come in anywhere below the second-biggest draft bust ever... even if one does concede Leaf at #1.

I do agree that he's the 2nd biggest bust.

bendog
09-15-2010, 12:32 PM
Smith was widely considered one of the best CBs in his draft class. The Broncos in fact had said they had him listed as a late 1st rounder. Various draft prognosticators had him as a late 1st/early 2nd type. Just the facts there man.

The trade was the mistake. Player selection was not. Alphonso Smith was a hard nosed, 110% effort CB in college who for some reason was not ready to step his game up to the NFL level mentally. He looked to have everything you want, but for some guys the light doesn't come on. This pre-season it looked like it started to for Smith, but by then younger guys had caught up to him (Thompson and Vaughn, with Cox passing him).

Look at the list Baja put up. Mandarich isn't a bust you can blame on those who picked him. He had everything you'd look for in a OL prospect, from physical talents to collegiate credentials. He just happened to be a steroid fueled headcase. Teams work hard to gauge the mental make up of prospects but is far from an exact science.

Guys come into the NFL all the time who say the right things and do the right things in college but once they get NFL money the foot comes off the gas pedal. All you can do is hope you don't wind up with one of those guys.

No big deal. It wasn't as big a screwup as taking Jeff George or Ryan Leaf. I guess that was Baja's pt. I apologize if I was rude. I thought the thread a lame attempt to buff McDaniels. Maybe I disagree on what makes a bust. A guy like Carter coming out of CU, who can predict he'll blow a knee. Not a bust. Tony Mandrich was roiding and an addict. Bust. The fact that a team didn't realize it doesn't make it not a bust. Ryan Leaf was a jerk. Somebody might have noted that Peyton Manning doesn't do crap like Leaf pulled.

I still have an open mind on McDaniels. Imo the 09 draft was on the job training, and I'm still miffed that Bowlen hired a guy who wasn't ready, but I was tired of some of Shanny's stuff, and I was going to cancel direct ticket anyway. (the running back fathering all the kids and not paying support was the last straw) Even with a playoff caliber team, I didn't want it in my house anymore, and could just catch a quarter or two in a bar.

As for draft picks, I'm not sure I totally agree. If I was rebuilding from scratch, like you say, I might take three 7s over one 4. To me it really depends on the talent available in the particular rounds. 2005 for example was loaded with defensive backs in around the second- third round. Shanahan nicely managed that draft by trading out of the first rd for an extra 3 that year (and a 1 and 4 I think in 2006). He played the odds well taking DWill in the 2nd and Foxworth with the extra 3 and Paymah, and then rolled dice on Claret, with supplementals. Why Claret, God maybe knows.

I didn't mind at all when Shanny traded the back end of the draft for a 4 to pick Marcus Thomas, but I'd seen him play his junior year. He played out of position last year with no complaint. I'm not sure he's really a 3-4 guy though.

I dunno, maybe 2006 was like that where Den had 3 fours and got Marshall, Doom and Hixon.

I'm not saying you're wrong at all. I agree pretty much. But your post made me go back and look, and shanny didn't do to badly in the 4th.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/den.htm

Jay3
09-15-2010, 12:42 PM
Gonna have to disagree here. Jamarcus was terrible, but his stats are still far better than those of Ryan Leaf.

Leaf only won 4 games in his career, a little more than half the number that Russell won. Winning percentage for Leaf is a little more than 19%; for Russell, 28%. Leaf completed less than 50% of his passes for his career (48.4), while Russell at least completed more than half for his career (52.1). Touchdowns to interceptions, Russell dominated Leaf (18/23 compared to 14/36).

The biggest thing is that the Chargers actually traded up to get Leaf. They gave up 2 first round picks, a second rounder, and a 4 time pro bowler in Eric Metcalf. To tell the truth, I doubt there will be another bust that was the equal of the Ryan Leaf failure in my lifetime.

You have persuaded me, your answer is deemed acceptable. However, Jafatty is very close, because of the extra credit he gets for being #1 overall.

Leaf, although he was Number 2, was controversial from the get-go because of the Peyton situation. The Colts correctly surmised the situation, and it tends to soften the blow that he wasn't taken over Peyton.

bendog
09-15-2010, 12:47 PM
With Jamarcus, the faide apparantly didn't know that the guy is extemely adverse to work. Of any kind. Intellectual, physical, spiritual ..... He doens't seem to be a gradeA azzhole like Leaf was. Also, he likes getting high, any damn way he can. "sip-sip? "purple dank?" When a martini just won't do!

http://www.mercurynews.com/mark-purdy/ci_16037938?nclick_check=1

I hope leaf turns it around. And I hope Jamarcas had somebody as honest as did Leaf to invest his bonus money for him.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/stevekelley/2009356657_kelley19.html

Drek
09-15-2010, 01:35 PM
I didn't mind at all when Shanny traded the back end of the draft for a 4 to pick Marcus Thomas, but I'd seen him play his junior year. He played out of position last year with no complaint. I'm not sure he's really a 3-4 guy though.
I did. He gave up a 3rd in the next draft along with the entire second day to grab Thomas, FYI.

I'm not saying you're wrong at all. I agree pretty much. But your post made me go back and look, and shanny didn't do to badly in the 4th.


Shanahan's track record looks much better than most teams 4th round histories, largely because he hit big on probably the two biggest 4th round wins of the decade (Marshall and Doom).

It doesn't mean Shanahan had some secret recipe for 4th round success, he just happened to get lucky there. Some teams get lucky in the 7th round like the Saints, pulling a standout WR like Colston from it. Some teams get lucky in UDFA. Shanahan happened to have a really great pair of 4th rounders. Doesn't mean you don't see more Nick Easons in the 4th than Elvis Dumervils, by pretty near the same percentages as the 5th, 6th, and 7th rounds.

bendog
09-15-2010, 01:58 PM
I did. He gave up a 3rd in the next draft along with the entire second day to grab Thomas, FYI.



Shanahan's track record looks much better than most teams 4th round histories, largely because he hit big on probably the two biggest 4th round wins of the decade (Marshall and Doom).

It doesn't mean Shanahan had some secret recipe for 4th round success, he just happened to get lucky there. Some teams get lucky in the 7th round like the Saints, pulling a standout WR like Colston from it. Some teams get lucky in UDFA. Shanahan happened to have a really great pair of 4th rounders. Doesn't mean you don't see more Nick Easons in the 4th than Elvis Dumervils, by pretty near the same percentages as the 5th, 6th, and 7th rounds.

Oh I agree. There's no rhyme or reason why some teams seem to do well in certain rounds. Shanahan also found O. Gary in the 4th. Guy blew a knee and never made it back, but he was a decent back. I think Shanny got Mike Anderson in the 7th.

I forgot about the 3rd. I still think he projected as a first rounder after his junior year, and his tiff with Urban Meyer was more about power and the usual griping when a new boss comes in. He smoked pot. He didn't hit anyone. His value dropped after getting benched or suspended. It was controversial. Shanny thought he was a player, and was desperate for dline help

extralife
09-15-2010, 02:13 PM
Doesn't matter... he's still a starting QB in the NFL. I don't think you can apply a "bust" label unless or until some career backup outplays him and takes the starting job away. I'd say the jury's still out on Smith although the clock is ticking. It won't surprise me a bit if SF takes that division this year though.

He's lost his job about three times, all to complete journeymen with zero talent. The second the Niners get a warm body with any ability whatsoever, Smith is off the roster. They just keep not trying. It's mystifying.

baja
09-15-2010, 02:41 PM
Ah, no. He didn't project into the first. He projected as a second rd pick, and Den took him about where he was slotted to go, but they used a first rounder to trade into the spot. But be that as it may. McDaniels took a flier, and move on. Baja's just mowing McDaniel's yard today for whatever reason by starting threads for spin.

Just trying to but their mistake in prospective.

baja
09-15-2010, 02:43 PM
Smith was widely considered one of the best CBs in his draft class. The Broncos in fact had said they had him listed as a late 1st rounder. Various draft prognosticators had him as a late 1st/early 2nd type. Just the facts there man.

The trade was the mistake. Player selection was not. Alphonso Smith was a hard nosed, 110% effort CB in college who for some reason was not ready to step his game up to the NFL level mentally. He looked to have everything you want, but for some guys the light doesn't come on. This pre-season it looked like it started to for Smith, but by then younger guys had caught up to him (Thompson and Vaughn, with Cox passing him).

Look at the list Baja put up. Mandarich isn't a bust you can blame on those who picked him. He had everything you'd look for in a OL prospect, from physical talents to collegiate credentials. He just happened to be a steroid fueled headcase. Teams work hard to gauge the mental make up of prospects but is far from an exact science.

Guys come into the NFL all the time who say the right things and do the right things in college but once they get NFL money the foot comes off the gas pedal. All you can do is hope you don't wind up with one of those guys.

I just hope we didn't make another mistake by letting him go too soon. We'll see.

baja
09-15-2010, 02:51 PM
just let it go. and go on washing McDaniels' cars. But the fact is A.Smith rated as somewhere in the top 40 picks. maycock had him as the 4th best corner. McDaniels traded the FOURTEENTH OVERALL PICK to take the guy AT THIRTYSEVEN and the draft guys lauged their asses off. Taking this guy with THE FOURTEENTH OVERALL PICK WAS A FREAKING REACH.

McDaniels took a flier and gave up more value to take the guy about where he was ALWAYS SLOTTED. Jesus, the catholics don't defend the frigging pope like you guys. lol

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80dff358&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

I can't think of one person here that defends trading the (what turned out to be ) 14th pick this for a 2nd last year.

Smith drafted where he was taken is OK but not the cost. Anyway rookie coach with a short time to prepare = understandable as long as he learns from the experience.

Blueflame
09-15-2010, 02:53 PM
He's lost his job about three times, all to complete journeymen with zero talent. The second the Niners get a warm body with any ability whatsoever, Smith is off the roster. They just keep not trying. It's mystifying.

Who's their starter now?

baja
09-15-2010, 02:56 PM
"The parameters

Players must have been drafted in 1970 or later, when the NFL and AFL officially joined, and must have been picked in the top 10.

Given those parameters, here are the top 50 Biggest NFL Draft Busts as chosen by our staff."

If Smith not making this list is supposed to be evidence that Josh did not poop the bed I am going to need to see a little something more.

Point here is every team makes mistakes and sometimes they are very costly. Traiding a #1 for a#2 bust was a mistake but it happens to every team. Give McD time this is not grounds for believing the rookie coach is a bust too as some here claim every day!

bendog
09-15-2010, 03:10 PM
I think my posts were misleading, baja. Not intentionally. I was not clear in what I was trying to say, and that is pretty much the same that you are saying. The worst that can be said is that McDaniel's locked onto Smith, and then overpaid to get the second to pick the guy where he'd been slotted to go all along. You could even say he could have gone at 30. I think the Moreno pick was not good value, and more of a Delta O'neal/George Foster type thing where the coach had to draft a position that was week for the draft.

You see people saying McDaniels is a total fail right now. I don't. He made some mistakes early on, and has now made turning over the roster a lot harder than it needed to be. A year ago I was a lot more po'ed at him. He may be a fail, or he may not be a fail. He may win a superbowl. As I read the posts, that's what people whom you view as being sobbing losers are saying.

extralife
09-15-2010, 03:38 PM
Who's their starter now?

So I guess JaMarcus wasn't a bust last year amirite

bendog
09-15-2010, 03:46 PM
bust seems a bit strong for a. smith

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

baja
09-15-2010, 03:51 PM
I think my posts were misleading, baja. Not intentionally. I was not clear in what I was trying to say, and that is pretty much the same that you are saying. The worst that can be said is that McDaniel's locked onto Smith, and then overpaid to get the second to pick the guy where he'd been slotted to go all along. You could even say he could have gone at 30. I think the Moreno pick was not good value, and more of a Delta O'neal/George Foster type thing where the coach had to draft a position that was week for the draft.

You see people saying McDaniels is a total fail right now. I don't. He made some mistakes early on, and has now made turning over the roster a lot harder than it needed to be. A year ago I was a lot more po'ed at him. He may be a fail, or he may not be a fail. He may win a superbowl. <b>As I read the posts, that's what people whom you view as being sobbing losers are saying.

It makes me happy to see you posting dog yu always make me laugh and I respect your views so no prob. ;D

One trait I really like about McD is he recognizes his mistakes seems to learn from. He did not have a great draft last season although I think Moreno will be much better that many here think. As I stated many times around here his most glaring mis step to date was trading a #1 for a #2 when he had only two months to prepare for the draft especially for a corner. I really like the way he managed this years draft (just think if he had save #14 for a year where he was much better prepared) Anyway he may have hit a home run with Tebow, Thomas and Decker not to mention the late round DBs (that takes a little of the sting out of Smith pick) Time will tell.

Not sure I understand the bolded? I have no problem with the wait an see crowd, probably the most reasonable position. Me I'm a self confessed McD homer I think there is greatness in him JMO. Maybe that is why TJ calls me a front runner ;D

bendog
09-15-2010, 04:28 PM
I checked back in yesterday, and it just seems to me that unless someone is just gushing over McDaniels some here take that to unbridled criticism, and there's a palatable complex with some that McDaniels has to be better than Shanny and Shanny is just terrible, and Cutler was just awful and he's jerk ....

None of that crap is true. Look, McDaniels screwed up by not getting on the corporate jet (yeah they have one) and flying down to mexico to sell Cutler on his plan. When corporations worth 3/4 billion dollars switch CEO's, that's what the CEO does. The fact is that there are more people qualified to be HC than there are to be QB's, and the QB's are the "sales teams" that generate millions annually to the corporation. People say 'oh Cutler's immature." Guess who flew down to Hattiesburg to convince Favre that he really could be trusted, and to make sure Favre was selling tickets...." Even Jack Welch kissed the asses of the guys who brought in the money. Some people who don't get their asses kissed are envious or don't understand, but that's just the way it is in life. Chicago has a bad oline, and Cutler will do well to avoid IR, and for that he is paid millions. (He also has type one diabetes, which is not a good thing.)

McDaniels has been doing damage control since then. He had to take a guy who'd start immediately with his first pick. It is unfortunate in that the hyperbole on both sides - the people who are still pissed and the people who can't stand to think Bowlen kicked this down the toilet - hides the reasons Shanny needed to go. Most of us agree on that he needed to go, and for various reasons that I won't bother with.

But the 2009 year was sorta ok for qbs. Not unlike the Cutler year. Josh Freeman was sitting at 17 so TB went out an grabbed him. Pretty nice qb. I'd rather have gotten him, and then something like McCluster and Gerhart for the running back, but McDaniels can find a qb, and I like Tebow's chances. He's a project, but wtf. If he doesn't work out, there'll be another guy a smart front office can grab. If McDaniels can make it, great. If not maybe Bowlen sells and they bring in a fresh team.

I hope Shanny wins a lombardi with Wash. I don't think Den does much this year, but who knows. I don't and I enjoyed the Saints run last year.

baja
09-15-2010, 04:42 PM
Yes McD could have saved the day by sucking up to Cutler and I get your reasons for why he should have. Here's where we differ. I don't think Cutler will ever be a great QB. He doesn't have either the "i" or the "t" just the arm. He is not a winner and I think Josh recognized that and it took huge balls to act on that. JMO

Congrats on the Saints (I remember you follow them for many years) it was a beautiful story

Jay3
09-15-2010, 05:16 PM
Yeah, the supposed Cutler misstep by McD ends up being squashed by the Broncos getting Orton plus two #1's for Cutler.

I think at this point Cutler for Orton is a good trade, and throw in the two #1's for a raping.

Blueflame
09-15-2010, 05:33 PM
So I guess JaMarcus wasn't a bust last year amirite

While the "b-word" was starting to stick to JaMarcus a year ago (going into Week Two of the 2009 season), most football fans still thought it was a bit early to solidly affix the tag to him. Although it wasn't long before he lost the starting job to a journeyman like Gradkowski, it wasn't until the Raiders found no more use for him and cut their losses... not even trying to get any value from him via trade... that it finally became acknowledged fact that he was, indeed a bust.

DBroncos4life
09-15-2010, 06:05 PM
Defending the Smith pick is about as worthless as defending the Middlebrooks pick.

chadta
09-15-2010, 06:12 PM
Defending the Smith pick is about as worthless as defending the Middlebrooks pick.

middlebrooks is still playing for the toronto argos of the cfl, and he still sucks

WolfpackGuy
09-15-2010, 06:12 PM
Defending the Smith pick is about as worthless as defending the Middlebrooks pick.

Funny thing is that pick caused the eventual falling out between Alex Gibbs and Shanahan.

Gibbs' son coached at U of Minnesota and recommended Middlebrooks...

Drek
09-15-2010, 06:46 PM
I checked back in yesterday, and it just seems to me that unless someone is just gushing over McDaniels some here take that to unbridled criticism, and there's a palatable complex with some that McDaniels has to be better than Shanny and Shanny is just terrible, and Cutler was just awful and he's jerk ...

I'm not going to waste my time with most of your post because its opinion and nothing else. But this right here? This is delusion, plain and simple.

The longest thread this board has had in a good long while is about Peyton Hillis NOT being a member of the Denver Broncos. Thats right, a 7th round fullback with a handful of solid games all of which Arian Foster eclipsed in week one of this year beats out Doom's injury, us drafting Tim Tebow, and basically everything else we've done for the last year as the topic most worth discussion.

The tone of that thread was generally anti-McDaniels.

One of the longer very recent threads we had consisted of people throwing a fit for about a dozen pages about our FO trading a 2nd round CB who had been passed on our depth chart by a 5th rounder and was fending off a 7th rounder and a UDFA, both of whom with more STs value. We flipped him for a solid system fit TE. Meanwhile teams like the Dolphins with the oh so veteran Bill Parcells outright released their 2nd round pick from a year ago. But McDaniels done ****ed up because he made one trade based on the point value chart that dozens of other player personnel guys have made before looking for instant gratification.

We currently have a nice long thread full of people second guessing a former first round RB acquisition who has put up over 2400 yards in three healthy seasons with a YPC over 4 while working as a split duty back. He's 25, he's played in this system, and we got him simply for swapping a 4th for a 6th. He's also got no real money owed to him. That is what most fans consider an outright gift of a transaction. Yet here we have people acting like McDaniels just sold our entire 2011 draft down the river.

But somehow you construe this as a constant lauding and praising of McDaniels. Maybe you should take a close look at your own perspective here. Because 99% of the **** people on this forum claim McDaniels has ****ed up on is **** they'd be bending over backwards to gargle Shanahan's balls for if he did the exact same thing.

The guy is far from perfect but he's done a better job with this team than most new HCs have been able to pull off early in their tenure, despite various attempts to paint him into a corner. What you see here is people willing to give him a chance arguing with people who made their minds up on McDaniels because of one single act they took extreme umbrage with for basically no sensible reason. In short, they're narrow minded ass clowns who just use this forum as a soap box to pontificate their own twisted little perspective at people, not have a real conversation. Then they cry about people attacking them. Because debate and refutation of weak points is now apparently an attack.