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titan
09-14-2010, 06:58 AM
McDaniels interview on Sirius NFL Radio this morning with Peter King/Bob Poppa:

What did you learn about your team?

We are certainly different than last year. We talked about where we are at last
year vs this year. We are ahead of last year, but we didn't play enough of
a complementary football game to win. Jacksonville didn't beat themselves.
We gave up too many yards in the return game, and we didn't capitilize
on the opportunities we had.

We didn't play well in all 3 phases (offense, defense, special teams)

How about the use of Tim Tebow?

There may be some things each week we do with Tim depending on the defense.
That's really all it was. Kyle threw the ball when Tim was in there a couple of times.
Probably going to be that way all year - if we feel there's an advantage we'll
put Tim in there.

How about the mental mistakes?

All of our penalties offensively were on 3rd down. All on defense were on scoring
drives for Jacksonville. You can't go on the road in this league and commit
penalties and turnovers in critical situations. We did some good things but
not enough to overcome our mistakes.

Defensive pressure?

Ayers had a sack, he's done good things in preseason. We really never put
Jacksonville in longer yardage passing situations. It didn't allow us to
get a great deal of pressure on them. We did get pressure at times. Jacksonville
did a great job of controlling the distance on 3rd down - we need to do a better
job on early downs.

Did you see positive signs on offense (orton)?

Yes - we have a good qb. Kyle was extremely effective. Threw the ball
down the field a bunch, got all the wr's involved, took advantage of the
opportunities given to him. Kyle made alot of good decisions, hung
in there and took some shots, and actually made some scrambles
late in the game. Positive - we have to build on that. We need
to practice on playing together so we can perform better.

Clady?

We gave him some rest because of stamina, not because of the knee. He
did a decent job. THere will always be some rust when you haven't played
in the preseason. Give it another week or 2 and he'll be back at top form.

Beadles?

We hope Harris is back soon. He's doing better every day. Harris is very tough.
That will allow us to have Zane as a 6th or 7th guy. Zane had a tough assignment
in that first game - he did some good things.

Seattle is 30th and 24th the last 2 years in defense. Have you watched alot of Seattle?

Yes, Seattle is very active. They bent but didn't break vs SF. Gave up some short passes.
Created turnovers. They stunt, they move, they pressure you. We liked Thomas at free
safety that we liked out of the draft. Linebacker corp very active. A good group. We
are going to have to take care of the football and score in the red zone.

Ray Finkle
09-14-2010, 07:26 AM
wow has Beatles dropped....

backup qb
09-14-2010, 07:27 AM
Ahead of last year, huh? Looked remarkably similar to me. Either way it's 5 in a row Josh. Figure it out.

backup qb
09-14-2010, 07:30 AM
wow has Beatles dropped....

Might actually be good for him. He was thrown into the fire pretty quickly. I would still like to know where his best position is projected to be. Maybe they don't know that yet.

Ray Finkle
09-14-2010, 07:46 AM
Ahead of last year, huh? Looked remarkably similar to me. Either way it's 5 in a row Josh. Figure it out.

Why don't you just go be a fan of another team.....

fontaine
09-14-2010, 08:34 AM
This is getting ****ing stupid. Not only did we shoot ourselves in the foot in the short term by moving away from the zone blocking system but now the guys we've drafted to fill in the power blocking role (Olsen/Beadles) aren't even good enough to start?

The freakin' chiefs with a castoff OL and weak ass passing game can run the ball better than us right behind Brian Waters and with Charles while we've got Moreno dancing on ice in the back field.

****

Beantown Bronco
09-14-2010, 08:37 AM
This is getting ****ing stupid. Not only did we shoot ourselves in the foot in the short term by moving away from the zone blocking system but now the guys we've drafted to fill in the power blocking role (Olsen/Beadles) aren't even good enough to start?
****

Ummmm, rookie playing in his first NFL game ever. Cool the jets just a tad.

bowtown
09-14-2010, 08:47 AM
This is getting ****ing stupid. Not only did we shoot ourselves in the foot in the short term by moving away from the zone blocking system but now the guys we've drafted to fill in the power blocking role (Olsen/Beadles) aren't even good enough to start?

The freakin' chiefs with a castoff OL and weak ass passing game can run the ball better than us right behind Brian Waters and with Charles while we've got Moreno dancing on ice in the back field.

****

http://umpbump.com/press/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/veruca_salt.jpg

fontaine
09-14-2010, 08:47 AM
Ummmm, rookie playing in his first NFL game ever. Cool the jets just a tad.

It's not just the rookie. If it was just the rookie it would fine.

This is what we've spent so far on the running game:

2009
- 12th pick overall on Moreno
- 2nd round pick for another blocking TE
- 4th round pick for Olsen
- Signed Hochstein as a FA
- Signed a versatile backup in CBuck

2010
- Spent 2nd/3rd rounders on Zane/Walton

All of this in addition to what we already had in Daniel Graham/Clady/Kuper.

And we still can't run the damn football with any authority or consistency.

There's a difference between a talent problem (our DL the past few years) and a coaching problem (not being able to run the football with all this talent).

This is his job to fix, he went out and got the tools he wanted, it's up to him now to get it done instead of abandoning the run whenever it gets tough.

Beantown Bronco
09-14-2010, 08:50 AM
I'll say it again. This was the first game of the year. Several of those pieces were either playing in their first NFL game or they were hurt. It's idiotic to say the least to come to any sweeping conclusion about the coaching or the system in general.

Can we wait at least a few more weeks before we throw in the towel and conclude that the power rushing scheme just can't work......damn.

fontaine
09-14-2010, 08:51 AM
http://umpbump.com/press/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/

http://www.kcchiefsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/JamaalCharles8.jpg

fontaine
09-14-2010, 08:54 AM
I'll say it again. This was the first game of the year. Several of those pieces were either playing in their first NFL game or they were hurt. It's idiotic to say the least to come to any sweeping conclusion about the coaching or the system in general.

Except it isn't.

It's been two offseasons, 17 games, and 8 preseason games if you want to get technical.

I'm not expecting miracles but at the same time the current mediocrity from the ground game is unacceptable.

We may not have enough pass rushers,
we may not have elite DL,
But we do have enough talent there to march down the field.

It just needs to be coached/excecuted better and with more commitment.

Beantown Bronco
09-14-2010, 08:58 AM
Except it isn't.

It's been two offseasons, 17 games, and 8 preseason games if you want to get technical.

I'm not expecting miracles but at the same time the current mediocrity from the ground game is unacceptable.

And once again: Not true, because of the injuries listed above. You act as if all these pieces have been in place and working together for years....but they just haven't.

#1 and #2 RBs
Both tackles
Two interior linemen

All injured or playing in their first NFL game Sunday.

Los Broncos
09-14-2010, 09:02 AM
Good to hear Harris is better, we need him back ASAP.

fontaine
09-14-2010, 09:05 AM
And once again: Not true, because of the injuries listed above. You act as if all these pieces have been in place and working together for years....but they just haven't.

#1 and #2 RBs
Both tackles
Two interior linemen

All injured or playing in their first NFL game Sunday.

I guess Todd freakin' Haley in KC must be coach of the year material then because he's put together a much more effective ground game so far including last season with lesser talent along the OL, no real blocking TEs, with a bunch of scrub OL outside Brian Waters, and a passing attack that scares no one.

Or maybe excuses only get you so far.

TheReverend
09-14-2010, 09:05 AM
Subbed

backup qb
09-14-2010, 09:15 AM
Why don't you just go be a fan of another team.....

So wanting our coach to figure out how to stop a 5 game losing streak would somehow warrant me finding another team to root for? Hmmm...I would think that wanting the broncos to start winning again would indicate that I am a fan. Guess I was wrong.

Ray Finkle
09-14-2010, 09:17 AM
So wanting our coach to figure out how to stop a 5 game losing streak would somehow warrant me finding another team to root for? Hmmm...I would think that wanting the broncos to start winning again would indicate that I am a fan. Guess I was wrong.

no, when a majority of your post bring up the same thing, you are obsessed with it. I bet you are the first one to tell your friends "I knew this guy was a fraud, I can't wait to get rid of him"....you are then rooting for your team to fail.

go_broncos
09-14-2010, 09:20 AM
Except it isn't.

It's been two offseasons, 17 games, and 8 preseason games if you want to get technical.

I'm not expecting miracles but at the same time the current mediocrity from the ground game is unacceptable.

We may not have enough pass rushers,
we may not have elite DL,
But we do have enough talent there to march down the field.

It just needs to be coached/excecuted better and with more commitment.

Mcd doesn't value running game..Plain and Simple.
Unfortunately, Orton is not Tom Brady.
We will suck as long as he is the coach.

watermock
09-14-2010, 09:20 AM
The D s improved but old and the offense is gutted.

Worse, there is no upside. Tebow? Lloyd?

Drek
09-14-2010, 09:21 AM
I guess Todd freakin' Haley in KC must be coach of the year material then because he's put together a much more effective ground game so far including last season with lesser talent along the OL, no real blocking TEs, with a bunch of scrub OL outside Brian Waters, and a passing attack that scares no one.

Or maybe excuses only get you so far.

Actually having the OL play together is a key part of any successful running game.

We've got new starters at LG and C, as well as the rookie 2nd stringer starting at RT. Our two returning starters who played on Sunday (Clady and Harris) have taken all of one series in the pre-season with their new line teammates.

Run blocking is a product of chemistry as well as scheme. We do not have any chemistry on our line at this point, so the scheme can not be seen well. We also are still in the middle of changing our system. We had a ZBS OL coach and RB coach last year. Now we have man blocking coaches at both roles.

The run game deserves at least a few weeks before we grade it. Also, the single biggest problem with the running game on Sunday was Buckhalter's inability to do his job. If he performed like he should have we'd have looked much better in the running game and likely won.

Naggle Nole
09-14-2010, 09:29 AM
I guess Todd freakin' Haley in KC must be coach of the year material then because he's put together a much more effective ground game so far including last season with lesser talent along the OL, no real blocking TEs, with a bunch of scrub OL outside Brian Waters, and a passing attack that scares no one.

Or maybe excuses only get you so far.

Are you kidding me?
Take out the 56 yard Charles run and you have 79 rushing yards for KC on 25 carries, good for about 3.2 YPC
Something tells me that 3.2 YPC would have your water boiling

The proper word for KC's ground game is explosive, not effective
An effective ground game would have been able to grind the clock out with a two TD lead against SD
Since they don't have that, they had to cross their fingers and hope Cassel didn't sh*t himself, which they barely got away with

When all of our elements are healthy, we will have the kind of ground game that can protect a lead and punish defenses
That is the entire point of a back like Knowshon

If you want to be mad about anything, be mad at McDaniels and Xanders for failing to address the lack of playmakers in the backfield
The ONLY thing that I envy on KC right now is the ability of guys like McCluster and Charles to turn a good play into a quick 6
With what we have right now, a good play is 10-15 yards

Broncoman13
09-14-2010, 11:08 AM
I was talking to a buddy about this the other night. We're in a corner now with McD. The cupboards are bare with talent. I like Moreno, but I don't see him as an uber talented RB that should have been drafted at #12. I like Orton, but he isn't a QB that you'd like to build your team around. Ryan Clady is a strong piece, you can build around him. Time will tell on DT. Anyhow, the point is, we have to wait McD out for a few years now.

We have pretty much emptied the roster of talent, disgruntled talent with issues of their own, but talented none the less. You hand the reins of this team over to someone else now and we're going through two-three more years of rebuilding and it is doubtful that another HC will view Tim Tebow the same way McD does, which makes that a wasted pick as well.

I guess what I'm saying is, anchor in and get used to the idea that McD is going to be around for a while. We've made way too many moves for him not to be here for another three years. If we think he is going in the wrong direction and overreact right now, the next three years will make the Detroit Lions last 10 years look successful. Gotta see this thing through and have some patience.

pdaddy
09-14-2010, 11:09 AM
Are you kidding me?
Take out the 56 yard Charles run and you have 79 rushing yards for KC on 25 carries, good for about 3.2 YPC
Something tells me that 3.2 YPC would have your water boiling

The proper word for KC's ground game is explosive, not effective
An effective ground game would have been able to grind the clock out with a two TD lead against SD
Since they don't have that, they had to cross their fingers and hope Cassel didn't sh*t himself, which they barely got away with

When all of our elements are healthy, we will have the kind of ground game that can protect a lead and punish defenses
That is the entire point of a back like Knowshon

If you want to be mad about anything, be mad at McDaniels and Xanders for failing to address the lack of playmakers in the backfield
The ONLY thing that I envy on KC right now is the ability of guys like McCluster and Charles to turn a good play into a quick 6
With what we have right now, a good play is 10-15 yards



Charles ran for 36 yards on his other 10 carries. Not great. All in all, I thought SD played the run much better than I expected. KC did not look good on the ground.

Looked even worse in the air. Cassel looked like crap. 2.8 yard per catch, 10 for 22. 68 passer rating.

Also, they were horrible on 3rd down. 1 for 11, with the 1 coming in the 4th quarter. Over 3 quarters of not converting a single 3rd down!

This was a very lucky win for KC. Rain helped. Soggy field I think helped. Their run defense played pretty well, special teams played very well, and 0 turnovers. But their offense generally looked anemic, and their secondary is still a liability.

PRBronco
09-14-2010, 11:19 AM
I was talking to a buddy about this the other night. We're in a corner now with McD. The cupboards are bare with talent. I like Moreno, but I don't see him as an uber talented RB that should have been drafted at #12. I like Orton, but he isn't a QB that you'd like to build your team around. Ryan Clady is a strong piece, you can build around him. Time will tell on DT. Anyhow, the point is, we have to wait McD out for a few years now.

We have pretty much emptied the roster of talent, disgruntled talent with issues of their own, but talented none the less. You hand the reins of this team over to someone else now and we're going through two-three more years of rebuilding and it is doubtful that another HC will view Tim Tebow the same way McD does, which makes that a wasted pick as well.

I guess what I'm saying is, anchor in and get used to the idea that McD is going to be around for a while. We've made way too many moves for him not to be here for another three years. If we think he is going in the wrong direction and overreact right now, the next three years will make the Detroit Lions last 10 years look successful. Gotta see this thing through and have some patience.

Lost me right there.

Archer81
09-14-2010, 11:33 AM
Mcd doesn't value running game..Plain and Simple.
Unfortunately, Orton is not Tom Brady.
We will suck as long as he is the coach.


You really need to go look at the rushing stats for the Patriots the 18-1 season and the season after. They ran the ball pretty well. Of course that would invalidate this opinion you have, so I doubt you will do it.


:Broncos:

Broncoman13
09-14-2010, 11:38 AM
Lost me right there.

Then you should probably take a closer look.

What do you see that I'm missing.

QB- Orton is looking good, but he's a middle of the road vet. Realistically he isn't much more than a guy like Hasselback or Alex Smith. He is in a system that allows him to put up decent statistics, but how is that different from what Shanahan did?

RB- Moreno. I like Knowshon, but is he more than a middle of the pack type of RB? He certainly isn't a top 10 guy that you can say, we're going to build around him, run the ball 25 times a game and put up 125-150 yards rushing per game.

At WR, we have Eddie Royal and two aging veterans in Gaff and Lloyd. Really can't count on DT or Decker at this point, though I personally think there is talent in both of them.

TE- please do tell.

OL- Clady. Who else would you say is a uber talented player that you can build around? Kuper maybe?

DL- ???

LB- We have DJ and Ayers looks like he could be a very good player for years to come. Not sure you can build a team around either of them though.

Secondary- In case you didn't notice our safeties were exposed horribly in the opener. Track back to last season and look at what we got from Hill and Dawkins in terms of coverage AND help vs the run. The cupboard is empty unless you're counting on something from McBath and Bruton... in which case I would ask what have you seen from either that make you think they could be a sound building block to form a defense around? Champ Bailey is still a solid cover corner for another year or two anyway. Can't build around him at this point.


My mindset is that you build around a solid defensive line and a solid offensive line. I think McD and X attempted to upgrade the OL. We put some "beef" back in the OL yet they're still a finesse group. Time will tell if guys like Walton and Beadles will pan out. Not giving up hope with these guys, at least we have a lot of youth along the OL.

On defense though we're in trouble. Not much of a succession plan for Jamaal Williams. McBean is our youth/hope at DE, what does that tell you?

baja
09-14-2010, 11:38 AM
WOW lots of doubt form some surprise people. I'm in the camp of holding judgment for a couple of more weeks. We had such a injury riddled pre season I am actually more concerned about the intensity with which Josh runs the TC than what we saw in Jacksonville. As far as what we saw on Sunday I think my main concern is STs coverage and that should be easy to fix because it was mental errors on coverage. Really we looked like a team than didn't have a successful preseason and with all the injuries it is no wonder. We are used to fast starts so this game was even more disconcerting. I expect big improvement this Sunday. Another concern I have is Buck & Dawkins they both looked diminished from last season and we really need those guys. Is Brown from the NYG able to play?

Cito Pelon
09-14-2010, 11:46 AM
I was talking to a buddy about this the other night. We're in a corner now with McD. The cupboards are bare with talent. I like Moreno, but I don't see him as an uber talented RB that should have been drafted at #12. I like Orton, but he isn't a QB that you'd like to build your team around. Ryan Clady is a strong piece, you can build around him. Time will tell on DT. Anyhow, the point is, we have to wait McD out for a few years now.

We have pretty much emptied the roster of talent, disgruntled talent with issues of their own, but talented none the less. You hand the reins of this team over to someone else now and we're going through two-three more years of rebuilding and it is doubtful that another HC will view Tim Tebow the same way McD does, which makes that a wasted pick as well.

I guess what I'm saying is, anchor in and get used to the idea that McD is going to be around for a while. We've made way too many moves for him not to be here for another three years. If we think he is going in the wrong direction and overreact right now, the next three years will make the Detroit Lions last 10 years look successful. Gotta see this thing through and have some patience.

Please. This is a pretty good roster, actually. I'm pretty sure Denver will be in the playoff hunt at the end.

Darkdoc
09-14-2010, 11:48 AM
Titan - Your avatar picture of Dave Costa sacking Joe Namath with a hit square in the chest is one of my favorite Bronco photos ever celebrating an upset victory that day. I was at that game in fact with tickets at the 10 yard line up high in the old stadium. Joe got up very slowly after that hit, and had a very bruised sternum.

Ah, memories of the Broncos through earlier days. SO many people these days think the Broncos started when Elway arrived. There is a lot of history before that.

Hulamau
09-14-2010, 11:49 AM
[QUOTE=baja;2933435]WOW lots of doubt form some surprise people. I'm in the camp of holding judgment for a couple of more weeks. We had such a injury riddled pre season I am actually more concerned about the intensity with which Josh runs the TC than what we saw in Jacksonville. As far as what we saw on Sunday I think my main concern is STs coverage and that should be easy to fix because it was mental errors on coverage. Really we looked like a team than didn't have a successful preseason and with all the injuries it is no wonder. We are used to fast starts so this game was even more disconcerting. I expect big improvement this Sunday. Another concern I have is Buck & Dawkins they both looked diminished from last season and we really need those guys. Is Brown from the NYG able to play.QUOTE]

Brown has a turf toe and is day to day as I understand it. May be ready for some action this Sunday and could be a very good pick up for us when he's ready to go. Some speed and power on young legs out of the backfield.

Traveler
09-14-2010, 11:51 AM
Are you kidding me?
Take out the 56 yard Charles run and you have 79 rushing yards for KC on 25 carries, good for about 3.2 YPC
Something tells me that 3.2 YPC would have your water boiling

The proper word for KC's ground game is explosive, not effective
An effective ground game would have been able to grind the clock out with a two TD lead against SD
Since they don't have that, they had to cross their fingers and hope Cassel didn't sh*t himself, which they barely got away with

When all of our elements are healthy, we will have the kind of ground game that can protect a lead and punish defenses
That is the entire point of a back like Knowshon

If you want to be mad about anything, be mad at McDaniels and Xanders for failing to address the lack of playmakers in the backfield
The ONLY thing that I envy on KC right now is the ability of guys like McCluster and Charles to turn a good play into a quick 6
With what we have right now, a good play is 10-15 yards

Demarco Murray anyone?

Rulon Velvet Jones
09-14-2010, 12:06 PM
Mcd doesn't value running game..Plain and Simple.
Unfortunately, Orton is not Tom Brady.
We will suck as long as he is the coach.

Who would you rather be head coach? And please be reasonable with your answer.

tsiguy96
09-14-2010, 12:08 PM
WOW lots of doubt form some surprise people. I'm in the camp of holding judgment for a couple of more weeks. We had such a injury riddled pre season I am actually more concerned about the intensity with which Josh runs the TC than what we saw in Jacksonville. As far as what we saw on Sunday I think my main concern is STs coverage and that should be easy to fix because it was mental errors on coverage. Really we looked like a team than didn't have a successful preseason and with all the injuries it is no wonder. We are used to fast starts so this game was even more disconcerting. I expect big improvement this Sunday. Another concern I have is Buck & Dawkins they both looked diminished from last season and we really need those guys. Is Brown from the NYG able to play?

ran same training camp last year and this was one of the healthiest teams in the NFL. luck is what causes it.

Killericon
09-14-2010, 12:09 PM
We liked Thomas at free
safety that we liked out of the draft.

I lol'ed.

Ray Finkle
09-14-2010, 12:10 PM
Who would you rather be head coach? And please be reasonable with your answer.

MIIIIIIIIIIKKKKKKKKKKKKKKEEEEEEEEEE SHANAHAN (I am guessing that is his answer)....

~Crash~
09-14-2010, 12:17 PM
Good to hear Harris is better, we need him back ASAP.

Harris is our best RB so yes that would be nice.

Naggle Nole
09-14-2010, 12:28 PM
Harris is our best RB so yes that would be nice.

http://www.memedepot.com/uploads/0/207_not_sure_if_serious.jpg

Los Broncos
09-14-2010, 12:29 PM
I think he meant "run blocker"

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-14-2010, 12:41 PM
This is getting ****ing stupid. Not only did we shoot ourselves in the foot in the short term by moving away from the zone blocking system but now the guys we've drafted to fill in the power blocking role (Olsen/Beadles) aren't even good enough to start?

The freakin' chiefs with a castoff OL and weak ass passing game can run the ball better than us right behind Brian Waters and with Charles while we've got Moreno dancing on ice in the back field.

****

My god, overreact more.

You're kidding! Two rookies weren't 10000000% effective in their first real action against some pretty good front-seven players!?!??!!??!??!?! EMERGENCY!

THERE IS NO GOD!

Kaylore
09-14-2010, 12:44 PM
Yeah I'm not buying the "this team has no talent" line either, Oskie.

cmhargrove
09-14-2010, 12:45 PM
It's not just the rookie. If it was just the rookie it would fine.

This is what we've spent so far on the running game:

2009
- 12th pick overall on Moreno
- 2nd round pick for another blocking TE
- 4th round pick for Olsen
- Signed Hochstein as a FA
- Signed a versatile backup in CBuck

2010
- Spent 2nd/3rd rounders on Zane/Walton

All of this in addition to what we already had in Daniel Graham/Clady/Kuper.

And we still can't run the damn football with any authority or consistency.

There's a difference between a talent problem (our DL the past few years) and a coaching problem (not being able to run the football with all this talent).

This is his job to fix, he went out and got the tools he wanted, it's up to him now to get it done instead of abandoning the run whenever it gets tough.

I'm pretty sure of two things:
1. We drafted Beadles with the intention of him playing LG.
2. Since then, we have played him at three spots, and he has had to try to step into a starting Tackle spot as a rookie (which is pretty cool).
3. If you look back at our offensive goal line series, we finally had the power to push a team off the line and run it in -- objective completed.
4. You are over-reacting.

Popps
09-14-2010, 12:56 PM
I'm pretty sure of two things:
1. We drafted Beadles with the intention of him playing LG.
2. Since then, we have played him at three spots, and he has had to try to step into a starting Tackle spot as a rookie (which is pretty cool).
3. If you look back at our offensive goal line series, we finally had the power to push a team off the line and run it in -- objective completed.
4. You are over-reacting.

Yea, I'd like to see Beadles in the interior where I think he'll be best suited as a pro.

But, these guys are going to need time to learn their trade. Rarely does a rookie lineman come in and play lights-out like Clady did. Give these kids a few games.


I can't wait to see Thomas and Decker get some playing time. We've got a lot of young pieces to this offense that I think are really going to contribute going forward.

This thing is going to require some patience, though... and obviously patience isn't in abundance around here.

PRBronco
09-14-2010, 12:59 PM
I'm pretty sure of two things:
1. We drafted Beadles with the intention of him playing LG.
2. Since then, we have played him at three spots, and he has had to try to step into a starting Tackle spot as a rookie (which is pretty cool).
3. If you look back at our offensive goal line series, we finally had the power to push a team off the line and run it in -- objective completed.4. You are over-reacting.

This should be talked about more. I've waited years to see it.

ghwk
09-14-2010, 01:04 PM
wow has Beatles dropped....

Yeah that wasn't exactly a ringing endorsement was it.

TheReverend
09-14-2010, 01:35 PM
We should've given Beadles a LOT more help than we did. That's on the coaches, not him, imo. Unrealistic expectations of a guy who has only had a few weeks to even practice at the position.

Broncoman13
09-14-2010, 01:38 PM
WOW lots of doubt form some surprise people. I'm in the camp of holding judgment for a couple of more weeks. We had such a injury riddled pre season I am actually more concerned about the intensity with which Josh runs the TC than what we saw in Jacksonville. As far as what we saw on Sunday I think my main concern is STs coverage and that should be easy to fix because it was mental errors on coverage. Really we looked like a team than didn't have a successful preseason and with all the injuries it is no wonder. We are used to fast starts so this game was even more disconcerting. I expect big improvement this Sunday. Another concern I have is Buck & Dawkins they both looked diminished from last season and we really need those guys. Is Brown from the NYG able to play?

My doubt is in those who think we should move in a different direction (from Coach McD). I think we're at a point now that we have to wait and let him fill out the roster with 'his' guys. I'm buying into the team first concept that he is applying. My post is pointing out why it would be difficult to change directions with new management as opposed to seeing this thing through with McD.

Broncoman13
09-14-2010, 01:39 PM
Please. This is a pretty good roster, actually. I'm pretty sure Denver will be in the playoff hunt at the end.

Pretty good for what McD wants to do, that I agree with and is the whole basis of my opinion that we have to see this through even for a few years longer than you would normally if need be.

cutthemdown
09-14-2010, 01:44 PM
I'll say it again. This was the first game of the year. Several of those pieces were either playing in their first NFL game or they were hurt. It's idiotic to say the least to come to any sweeping conclusion about the coaching or the system in general.

Can we wait at least a few more weeks before we throw in the towel and conclude that the power rushing scheme just can't work......damn.

When you are as young as the Broncos are at key spots on the oline, weak at TE and RB, it could be more like give it a yr or so.

If you think this stuff can be fixed in a few games then you are kidding yourself.

Broncos lack talent and experience. A double whammy in the NFL.

Broncoman13
09-14-2010, 01:45 PM
Yeah I'm not buying the "this team has no talent" line either, Oskie.

When you look at it from a building perspective and compare it to playoff caliber teams, the talent deficit is pretty significant but then McD isn't forming a team that is based on one or two play makers, rather a total team, strong as the weakest link type mentality. Hard to describe my perspective on the internet I guess.

Main point is this. Talent wise, we aren't the strongest across the board. We're more after system fits than top tier talent. I like that plan and think it will be very beneficial long term. So moving from a coach and mentality such as McDs, regardless of outcome this year or next, would be a horrible idea. It's not that we don't have talent, it's that we've place a premium on roles and situations rather than overall, bottom line talent.

cutthemdown
09-14-2010, 01:47 PM
Yeah I'm not buying the "this team has no talent" line either, Oskie.

It's not that they have no talent. It's that they lack top end talent. Broncos have some good players just not any great ones. Bailey, Doom, Clady where the big 3. The most talented guys on team IMO. Having 1 gone whole yr, one starting hurt, has been really hard on Denver.

tsiguy96
09-14-2010, 01:47 PM
We should've given Beadles a LOT more help than we did. That's on the coaches, not him, imo. Unrealistic expectations of a guy who has only had a few weeks to even practice at the position.

for sure, cant leave a 2nd round rookie out there against a above average DE with huge motor like kampman ALL GAME and expect him to win. broncos receivers were doing great, they should have went 3 wide and slid protection his way at some point.

Kaylore
09-14-2010, 01:48 PM
When you look at it from a building perspective and compare it to playoff caliber teams, the talent deficit is pretty significant but then McD isn't forming a team that is based on one or two play makers, rather a total team, strong as the weakest link type mentality. Hard to describe my perspective on the internet I guess.

Main point is this. Talent wise, we aren't the strongest across the board. We're more after system fits than top tier talent. I like that plan and think it will be very beneficial long term. So moving from a coach and mentality such as McDs, regardless of outcome this year or next, would be a horrible idea. It's not that we don't have talent, it's that we've place a premium on roles and situations rather than overall, bottom line talent.

It sounds like you're shifting your argument. Your initial post with comments like "the cupboard is bare" suggests the team sucks across the board. I agree with your post here, where we have a lot of decent to good role players and the team is more even than in years past. I think we're a deeper team too than we usually are as well. Do we need more playmakers? Probably on defense, but good teams win in sports, not just good players. And there are guys on this team that can be super-stars.

titan
09-14-2010, 02:09 PM
Titan - Your avatar picture of Dave Costa sacking Joe Namath with a hit square in the chest is one of my favorite Bronco photos ever celebrating an upset victory that day. I was at that game in fact with tickets at the 10 yard line up high in the old stadium. Joe got up very slowly after that hit, and had a very bruised sternum.

Ah, memories of the Broncos through earlier days. SO many people these days think the Broncos started when Elway arrived. There is a lot of history before that.

I was at that game, too (I was 13 years old sitting in the South Stands). One of my all time favorite bronco games. In addition to the Costa hit, Floyd Little had a great punt return, Mike Haffner had an unbelievable td catch, and the Jets punter set a record that stands to this day (a 98 yard punt that went from the 1 yard line to the 1 yard line - the perfect punt)

Back to the McD interview, thanks to the mods for changing the title. I typed it in real quick before heading off to a breakfast meeting. I think the overall direction of the franchise is good but this year's record could be bad. If the Broncos can't beat a mediocre Jacksonville team I'm seeing a 1-5 start (win this week, followed by losses to Indy, Balt, Tenn, and the Jets)

fontaine
09-14-2010, 04:18 PM
Let me repeat what I've already said:

McDaniels deserves 3 full years before he can be judged.

However, I do expect improvement along the way. We may not have all our starters healthy along the OL but we do have Graham/Quinn, Moreno and Larsen who played his ass off in that game.

I expect better because our running game wasn't broke to begin with. With Cutler/Marshall/Scheffler, I completely acknowledge that McD had that situation forced upon him.

But with the running game, he took something that already worked pretty well and so far by the looks of it, has broken it. I see Kyle Orton struggling when he's asked to carry the offense on his back without a consistent ground game and that's where good coaching needs to come and do a better job committing to the running game and executing it.

Agree or not, one thing is for certain, we've spent a lot of picks towards the type of running game McDaniels wanted so it's up to him to take those tools and make it happen.

PRBronco
09-14-2010, 04:23 PM
I was at that game, too (I was 13 years old sitting in the South Stands). One of my all time favorite bronco games. In addition to the Costa hit, Floyd Little had a great punt return, Mike Haffner had an unbelievable td catch, and the Jets punter set a record that stands to this day (a 98 yard punt that went from the 1 yard line to the 1 yard line - the perfect punt)

Back to the McD interview, thanks to the mods for changing the title. I typed it in real quick before heading off to a breakfast meeting. I think the overall direction of the franchise is good but this year's record could be bad. If the Broncos can't beat a mediocre Jacksonville team I'm seeing a 1-5 start (win this week, followed by losses to Indy, Balt, Tenn, and the Jets)

Oh great another bandwagoner from the Madden generation.



Just kiddin titan :D

baja
09-14-2010, 04:24 PM
Let me repeat what I've already said:

McDaniels deserves 3 full years before he can be judged.

However, I do expect improvement along the way. We may not have all our starters healthy along the OL but we do have Graham/Quinn, Moreno and Larsen who played his ass off in that game.

I expect better because our running game wasn't broke to begin with. With Cutler/Marshall/Scheffler, I completely acknowledge that McD had that situation forced upon him.

But with the running game, he took something that already worked pretty well and so far by the looks of it, has broken it. I see Kyle Orton struggling when he's asked to carry the offense on his back without a consistent ground game and that's where good coaching needs to come and do a better job committing to the running game and executing it.

Agree or not, one thing is for certain, we've spent a lot of picks towards the type of running game McDaniels wanted so it's up to him to take those tools and make it happen.

Well he did just trade for Moroney. Maybe he agrees wth you

Inkana7
09-14-2010, 04:35 PM
I can't see how anyone can say that our running game wasn't broken before McDaniels came in. Look at our opening roster in 2008. Friggin Selvin Young, Andre Hall and Michael Pittman! In 07? Travis Henry and Selvin Young. In 2006 the Bells were our workhorses. We haven't had a truly consistent, productive running game since our 2005 season when Nalen was still around, Lepsis was still healthy, and Hamilton/Cooper/Green/Foster were actually good. It's not like he took a consistant 2,000 yard rushing offense with 4.5-5.0 YPC and tore it to pieces. Changes were needed.

TheReverend
09-14-2010, 04:38 PM
I can't see how anyone can say that our running game wasn't broken before McDaniels came in. Look at our opening roster in 2008. Friggin Selvin Young, Andre Hall and Michael Pittman! In 07? Travis Henry and Selvin Young. In 2006 the Bells were our workhorses. We haven't had a truly consistent, productive running game since our 2005 season when Nalen was still around, Lepsis was still healthy, and Hamilton/Cooper/Green/Foster were actually good. It's not like he took a consistant 2,000 yard rushing offense with 4.5-5.0 YPC and tore it to pieces. Changes were needed.

Ummm

In 2008 we lost 6 RBs to injury and we still finished with a 5.0 ypc average.

Soooooo....

TheReverend
09-14-2010, 04:41 PM
4.8 to be exact. Tied for 2nd highest in the league.

fontaine
09-14-2010, 04:44 PM
Well he did just trade for Moroney. Maybe he agrees wth you

At this point I dont' really give a sh*t what he thinks baja.

Go with power formations, two TEs blocking and let the ground game set it up for Orton.

I admire McD in that he isn't afraid to do what he feels it takes to get the job done. I just hope we start seeing results on the ground soon because Orton is good enough right now to do the rest.

The last thing we need is Orton passing the ball over 30 times a game with his inability to stay healthy over 16 games.

WolfpackGuy
09-14-2010, 04:46 PM
Seattle is 30th and 24th the last 2 years in defense. Have you watched alot of Seattle?

Yes, Seattle is very active. They bent but didn't break vs SF. Gave up some short passes.
Created turnovers. They stunt, they move, they pressure you. We liked Thomas at free
safety that we liked out of the draft. Linebacker corp very active. A good group. We
are going to have to take care of the football and score in the red zone.

LOL

Really?

Definitely worth a backup backup TE.

fontaine
09-14-2010, 04:46 PM
Ummm

In 2008 we lost 6 RBs to injury and we still finished with a 5.0 ypc average.

Soooooo....

How lame is it that we've got posters now pissing down on a running game that over excelled with minimal talent for years?

TheReverend
09-14-2010, 04:53 PM
How lame is it that we've got posters now pissing down on a running game that over excelled with minimal talent for years?

I don't particularly mind what happened to it. If you do want to switch the blocking scheme, that's Josh's prerogative and might as well get it over with and rip the band off sooner than later to start the learning curve and growing pains.

But supporting that philosophy doesn't mean taking shots at something that was so effective for us for so long with inferior talent.

steeledude
09-14-2010, 06:37 PM
no, when a majority of your post bring up the same thing, you are obsessed with it. I bet you are the first one to tell your friends "I knew this guy was a fraud, I can't wait to get rid of him"....you are then rooting for your team to fail.

No. We just know we won't win until we get rid of him. It's completely different than blind support of a McDouche.

TonyR
09-14-2010, 07:13 PM
Ummm

In 2008 we lost 6 RBs to injury and we still finished with a 5.0 ypc average.


Can't disagree with this but I think he was referring to the talent. We lacked it. And we all know our running game could put up some numbers but often struggled when we needed it most: short yardage, red zone/goal line, and against the better defenses you have to beat to go anywhere.

baja
09-14-2010, 07:38 PM
How lame is it that we've got posters now pissing down on a running game that over excelled with minimal talent for years?

Between the 20's yes. in the red zone where power blocking in mandatory not so much. That's why we were #2 in yards and #16 in scoring.

Steve Sewell
09-14-2010, 08:58 PM
When you look at it from a building perspective and compare it to playoff caliber teams, the talent deficit is pretty significant but then McD isn't forming a team that is based on one or two play makers, rather a total team, strong as the weakest link type mentality. Hard to describe my perspective on the internet I guess.

Main point is this. Talent wise, we aren't the strongest across the board. We're more after system fits than top tier talent. I like that plan and think it will be very beneficial long term. So moving from a coach and mentality such as McDs, regardless of outcome this year or next, would be a horrible idea. It's not that we don't have talent, it's that we've place a premium on roles and situations rather than overall, bottom line talent.

OK whats your point? It seems as if you think that McDaniels won't be given enough time to install his system? You realize that Bowlen is different from other owners and letting Shanahan(and his philosophy) go wasn't some fly by the seat of his pants decision, right? McD will probably get at least 5 seasons, unless something drastically bad happens.

TheReverend
09-14-2010, 09:53 PM
Can't disagree with this but I think he was referring to the talent. We lacked it. And we all know our running game could put up some numbers but often struggled when we needed it most: short yardage, red zone/goal line, and against the better defenses you have to beat to go anywhere.

Well...

With 6 RBs out over the course of the season, we ran for 103 first downs on 387 attempts for a 1st down % of 26.6.

In 2009 with our "short yardage power blocking" scheme, we ran for 95 on 440 attempts for a 21.6%.

Once again, I agree with moving if he felt like that was the best interest in the team for the type of football HE wants to play, but you also can't dismiss the reality and the results. That's all I'm saying. We have some significant revisionist history going on, as usual.

TheReverend
09-14-2010, 09:54 PM
Oh and we also rushed for 15 TDs in 2008 vs 9 in 2009.

Dagmar
09-14-2010, 10:05 PM
Well...

With 6 RBs out over the course of the season, we ran for 103 first downs on 387 attempts for a 1st down % of 26.6.

In 2009 with our "short yardage power blocking" scheme, we ran for 95 on 440 attempts for a 21.6%.

Once again, I agree with moving if he felt like that was the best interest in the team for the type of football HE wants to play, but you also can't dismiss the reality and the results. That's all I'm saying. We have some significant revisionist history going on, as usual.

His first season as head coach. You can't give him a couple of seasons to implement his system? Shanahan joined in 1995, where we finished 22nd in rushing no?

baja
09-14-2010, 10:09 PM
His first season as head coach. You can't give him a couple of seasons to implement his system? Shanahan joined in 1995, where we finished 22nd in rushing no?

Not only that Josh tried to run mostly a power blocking scheme with ZBS personal (I thought this was his biggest head scratcher) so naturally you'd expect some adjustment drop off.

TheReverend
09-14-2010, 10:13 PM
His first season as head coach. You can't give him a couple of seasons to implement his system? Shanahan joined in 1995, where we finished 22nd in rushing no?

Once again... I'll repeat: I DO NOT DISAGREE WITH HIS DECISION.

That being said, Mike's first year was 1995 and we were 5th in rushing actually. Up from 23rd the year before under Wade.

Nice try though.

SoCalBronco
09-14-2010, 10:14 PM
I would classify about 7-8 of the Broncos 22 regular starters as "well above average" for talent definition purposes. That's not great, but its a start. If we can get that number up to around 12 we'll be in good shape.

Dagmar
09-14-2010, 10:20 PM
Once again... I'll repeat: I DO NOT DISAGREE WITH HIS DECISION.

That being said, Mike's first year was 1995 and we were 5th in rushing actually. Up from 23rd the year before under Wade.

Nice try though.

I wasn't around then (well, I was I was a teenager in Scotland) and I just checked wikipedia Shanhan joined in 95 and it nfl.com stated we were 22nd in rushing. It wasn't a "try" at anything. It wasn't about one up man ship, it was about any head coach needs to be given time.

Inkana7
09-14-2010, 10:24 PM
Ummm

In 2008 we lost 6 RBs to injury and we still finished with a 5.0 ypc average.

Soooooo....

I watched every game that season. Those are very misleading stats. We didn't have a run game worth a damn outside of Hillis' Jets game.

TheReverend
09-14-2010, 10:44 PM
I wasn't around then (well, I was I was a teenager in Scotland) and I just checked wikipedia Shanhan joined in 95 and it nfl.com stated we were 22nd in rushing. It wasn't a "try" at anything. It wasn't about one up man ship, it was about any head coach needs to be given time.

No they dont?

1994 ranked 23: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=1994&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

1995 ranked 5: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=1995&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

TheReverend
09-14-2010, 10:48 PM
I watched every game that season. Those are very misleading stats. We didn't have a run game worth a damn outside of Hillis' Jets game.

I think your memory is skewed by the porous defensive play.

We rushed for more yards, more first downs and a dramatic amount of more TDs in 2008 than 2009.

UberBroncoMan
09-14-2010, 11:08 PM
we liked thomas at free safety that we liked out of the draft.

ooopsy!

SoCalBronco
09-14-2010, 11:10 PM
ooopsy!

Yep...that's going to leave a mark.

fontaine
09-15-2010, 02:06 AM
Ofcourse Josh can't just be judged by one year alone, it's going to take a full three years to get a better idea but at the same time you don't expect the team to suck all three years and suddenly become a top flite team in one offseason. It takes incremental improvements and that's what I expect to see when the running game is concerned.

We already have the talent in place for a top notch run game, we're just missing the execution/committment to make it happen. It's not so much a talent problem but more of a coaching one.

I mean just for starters, can we just cut down on our RBs being attacked and tackled behind the line of scrimmage?

baja
09-15-2010, 02:27 AM
Ofcourse Josh can't just be judged by one year alone, it's going to take a full three years to get a better idea but at the same time you don't expect the team to suck all three years and suddenly become a top flite team in one offseason. It takes incremental improvements and that's what I expect to see when the running game is concerned.

We already have the talent in place for a top notch run game, we're just missing the execution/committment to make it happen. It's not so much a talent problem but more of a coaching one.

I mean just for starters, can we just cut down on our RBs being attacked and tackled behind the line of scrimmage?

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=93774

Play2win
09-15-2010, 04:33 AM
I look at the teams from the last few Shanahan years as they had the pretty bi's, tri's and calf's, but soft tummies. It seems to me, Josh is try to build the core. He is building real strength-- not just pretty muscles. He is building that strength from the inside, so when it finally hits the surface... Watch OUT!!!

The MVPlaya
09-15-2010, 04:39 AM
We already have the talent in place for a top notch run game, we're just missing the execution/committment to make it happen. It's not so much a talent problem but more of a coaching one.



So you're saying we have a top notch oline right now?

fontaine
09-15-2010, 05:28 AM
So you're saying we have a top notch oline right now?

Not the OL (until Harris comes back), but we do have enough beef in Graham and Quinn to line up in power formations and do a much better job.

The MVPlaya
09-15-2010, 05:36 AM
Not the OL (until Harris comes back), but we do have enough beef in Graham and Quinn to line up in power formations and do a much better job.

No, you said we have talent for a "top notch run game"... and then you go on to say we have blocking TE's, one which is in his 2nd year, to attempt and solidify your statement which was completely bull****.

If we some how get a top notch run game this season, it will be mostly due to coaching, not the other way around in this situation.

Top notch run game to me is somewhere in the top 5.

We have talent to have a solid/good run game.

Drek
09-15-2010, 05:36 AM
Not the OL (until Harris comes back), but we do have enough beef in Graham and Quinn to line up in power formations and do a much better job.

I completely agree.

But until we actually get all these guys healthy and practicing together we're going to see **** like we saw out of Quinn and Beadles this past weekend, lining up wrong or false starting.

Until Clady is back in something close to game shape (a week or two more at least), Harris is back at RT, and the group has had some time to actually practice together we're not going to have a very good idea what this running game looks like.

The talent is there, the execution is being prevented by a lack of health and chemistry.

colonelbeef
09-15-2010, 08:38 AM
why don't you just go be a fan of another team.....

fan police alert