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LonghornBronco
09-12-2010, 03:17 PM
Brief Thoughts on Jaguars game.

I liked this thread concept and wanted to keep it going. Credit Kaylor.


Liked our short yardage run game
Liked our short yardage run defense
Brandon Lloyed will be a force this season
We will miss Elvis big time
Kyle Orton looks good

theAPAOps5
09-12-2010, 03:26 PM
Agree on pretty much all of this. But I have to add that Royal will be a force too, he had some great YAC and that stiff arm was awesome!

Slowshon needs to figure out he isn't on Dancing With the Stars. He tries to hard!

Thats all I wanted to add!

baja
09-12-2010, 03:27 PM
we better get special teams coverage fixed or we will lose games we shouldn't

NFLBRONCO
09-12-2010, 03:31 PM
Healthy OL Thomas and a better running game we'll be fine on O. D on the other hand not sure how much it gets better.

bloodsunday
09-12-2010, 03:36 PM
This game was close. We won the "stats game", including our ex-coaches favorite stat total yardage...

Orton and our receiving corp sure don't look like we'll miss Cutler or Marshall. I personally think Orton played phenomenal and is CLEARLY a top 10 QB IMO. I would try to find ways to utilize this strength... like perhaps some no-huddle or hurry up. Orton is very good at diagnosing the defense and making quick decisions. We should take advantage of that.

Our special teams continue to plague us. When was the last time we had good special teams?

Missing opportunities cost us as well, namely fumbles and poor third down conversion.

All in all, playing with a make-shift OL, I think we did pretty well. But if we are going to have any success this season we need to get 5 guys in there that can start and develop some rapport and consistency. I don't think that running Clady in and out of the game helps things much either. Ryan Harris had 1 good season for us, but that guy is starting to look like he's made of paper.

Kaylore
09-12-2010, 04:24 PM
Moreno looks good.
The line played better than I thought.
Orton played very well. As he develops he'll have a good year. He still needs to work on running for the easy first downs. He started to in the second half.
I thought we were going to bring smart players into this team. McBean went all Jamie Winborn on us.
We gave this game to the Jags. The penalties and turnovers were terrible. Fumbles in the redzone. Holding calls on third down. Those are what kill drives and take off points. It's upsetting.
I still think we need to fire Mike Priefer. He's never coached a good ST unit. It looks like our ST is picking right up where we left off: sucking horribly. Too many big returns by the Jags and too many starts with little to no return and bad field position by us. If he's still here next season and we haven't improved, that will deal a major blow to my support of McDaniels.
We miss Dumervil.
The Jags have our number. Always have. We suck playing in Florida. I think I saw a stat where we've won one September game in Florida in our history.


I do think we played well in a variety of areas. I just hope we get better. The Jags are supposed to suck.

Rohirrim
09-12-2010, 04:27 PM
Moreno looks good.
The line played better than I thought.
Orton played very well. As he develops he'll have a good year. He still needs to work on running for the easy first downs. He started to in the second half.
I thought we were going to bring smart players into this team. McBean went all Jamie Winborn on us.
We gave this game to the Jags. The penalties and turnovers were terrible. Fumbles in the redzone. Holding calls on third down. Those are what kill drives and take off points. It's upsetting.
I still think we need to fire Mike Priefer. He's never coached a good ST unit. It looks like our ST is picking right up where we left off: sucking horribly. Too many big returns by the Jags and too many starts with little to no return and bad field position by us. If he's still here next season and we haven't improved, that will deal a major blow to my support of McDaniels.
We miss Dumervil.
The Jags have our number. Always have. We suck playing in Florida. I think I saw a stat where we've won one September game in Florida in our history.


I do think we played well in a variety of areas. I just hope we get better. The Jags are supposed to suck.

Well, we have a long history of kicking the Seahags asses. At least when Big John was in the huddle. ;D

gyldenlove
09-12-2010, 04:29 PM
- Run blocking was between bad and worse, we rarely got any push and the only time we ever gained yards on the ground was on plays when the RB made the play and didn't have to rely on blocking.

- Pass blocking was okay except for Daniels who is not NFL level, he got beat several times.

- Pass offense was fine until the game was on the line, then Lloyd found a perfect time to have sloppy footwork and Orton a perfect time to throw into double coverage and turn the ball over.

- Run offense was bad, Moreno had a few good runs and did well on short yard situations but as a whole you don't win a lot of games with a 3 yard per carry average and the Buckhalter fumble was a killer.

- Rush defense was so so, they largely stopped the big runs but the contain on the outside was pitiful and MJD gained yards after being stopped on more than a couple of occasions. They held up well in the middle though. Hunter got absolutely humiliated when trying to set the edge, he often ended up just standing around while MJD ran right by him.

- Pass defense was good for long stretches, but the pass rush was lackluster and zone coverage absolutely killed us. Everytime I saw us drop into that 3 rush zone defense I had this horrible flash that Slowik is really inside Martindale controlling his actions. It is clear that Mario Haggan has absolutely no business covering anybody, he is slower than frozen molasses running uphill.

- Kick coverage needs a lot of work, I can't believe how easy it looked for Underwood to take the ball back to the 40 yard line.

I really worry, the Jaguars had the worst pass rush last season and we couldn't keep them away, their secondary is held together with twine and birthday wishes and we still couldn't light it up in the red zone and their pass offense is a veritable who-the-****-is-that and yet they put up 3 TDs and an almost 80% completion rate.

We started slow last year and only won game 1 on a miracle, but we have a LONG ass way to go to be able to compete with good teams.

PRBronco
09-12-2010, 04:34 PM
I missed the fourth quarter but read on Twitter that McD tore Richard Quinn a new one during a time out, what'd he do?

tsiguy96
09-12-2010, 04:37 PM
couldnt get the correct formation so kyle had to use a TO.

theAPAOps5
09-12-2010, 04:43 PM
I missed the fourth quarter but read on Twitter that McD tore Richard Quinn a new one during a time out, what'd he do?

The announcers had a funny! They said Orton had to take a TO to avoid a penalty and to allow McD the opportunity to rip into Quinn longer. It was hilarious!

dsmoot
09-12-2010, 04:46 PM
Agree on pretty much all of this. But I have to add that Royal will be a force too, he had some great YAC and that stiff arm was awesome!

Slowshon needs to figure out he isn't on Dancing With the Stars. He tries to hard!

Thats all I wanted to add!

Need to show him some Barry Sanders highlights then tell him "you aren't this good" Then show him some TD highlights with his cut and go and tell him this is more like it.

dsmoot
09-12-2010, 04:49 PM
Well, we have a long history of kicking the Seahags asses. At least when Big John was in the huddle. ;D

Last time I looked Big John is not in the huddle.

gtown
09-12-2010, 04:50 PM
My thoughts:
- Orton looked good, as did the receivers - that will at least make us mediocre.
- OL looked OK given the youth - I think there is real potential here though.
- Moreno looks like he is still injured - off balance and clumsy.
- Elvis was the pass rush. Barely anything after that.
- Not impressed with Bannan, Jamal, Haggan, and Hunter - yes they are big, but they are slow. TEs and off tackle runs are gonna eat us alive.
- Safeties looked bad today - Dawkins and Hill both looked old.
- Special teams coverage was atrocious. Felt like groundhog day.
- Typical hot day in FL - not an excuse but we suck in the humidity.
- McD - I still think he is a good coach, but he is way to pass happy. No real balance.

RunSilentRunDeep
09-12-2010, 04:50 PM
-- Not even getting a field goal try on first drive sucked

-- Buckhalter's fumble sucked worse

-- Tebow package needs to be a lot cooler if they're going to take Orton out

-- We need to remember defense needs to gel. DJ, Dawkins, Champ all missed time. Hunter has been playing LB for three weeks, Haggan is new to the inside.

-- Jamal Williams is not close to the monster he used to be

-- McMonkey McBean is a tool

-- Knowshon looked better than I thought he would. Can't believe he didn't reinjure his hammy on that 17-yard run

barryr
09-12-2010, 04:53 PM
Nice to see at least one thread not calling the season over already or other dip**** crap. Anybody really saw this team being a Super Bowl team? Have the Broncos ever won a game in Jacksonville? Orton is playing well, but until the o-line gets healthy and better, they will struggle to run the ball.

ColoradoDarin
09-12-2010, 05:02 PM
The 2nd TD to Lewis I saw coming the whole way, Dawkins lines up against him late. As much as a love him, he's a liability in coverage.

gtown
09-12-2010, 05:05 PM
The 2nd TD to Lewis I saw coming the whole way, Dawkins lines up against him late. As much as a love him, he's a liability in coverage.

Wore my BDawk jersey proudly today, but the pass happy NFL has made him a bit of a relic. Sad, but guys like him, Atwater, et al are fun to watch.

DarkHorse
09-12-2010, 05:08 PM
Completely agree on Moreno trying too hard, dancing, etc....I like the high energy but he needs to settle down some, be more patient and for Gods sake please be more decisive when running the ball. Make your damn decision then head UPFIELD.

Save the dancing for the endzone.


Third down conversions sucked, and the special teams coverage was God awful.

Ryan McBean STILL needs punched in the face for 30 yards in penalties on the same drive to help them go ahead.

theAPAOps5
09-12-2010, 05:09 PM
Need to show him some Barry Sanders highlights then tell him "you aren't this good" Then show him some TD highlights with his cut and go and tell him this is more like it.

Or the Houston game today. Man that was like 97 Broncos with cutbacks!

DarkHorse
09-12-2010, 05:10 PM
Or the Houston game today. Man that was like 97 Broncos with cutbacks!


Pffffft - the NFL has passed that type of offense up. It won't work in today's NFL Hilarious!

theAPAOps5
09-12-2010, 05:12 PM
Pffffft - the NFL has passed that type of offense up. It won't work in today's NFL Hilarious!

Man you could have counted me in that group that thought that until I watched part of that game where Arian Foster went insane!

DarkHorse
09-12-2010, 05:16 PM
Man you could have counted me in that group that thought that until I watched part of that game where Arian Foster went insane!

That dude is going to be something in this league, I just have this feeling.

TonyR
09-12-2010, 05:16 PM
- Not impressed with Bannan, Jamal, Haggan, and Hunter - yes they are big, but they are slow. TEs and off tackle runs are gonna eat us alive.


To be fair speed isn't really a requisite at Bannan's and, even more so, Jamal's positions...

ScottXray
09-12-2010, 05:20 PM
Nice to see at least one thread not calling the season over already or other dip**** crap. Anybody really saw this team being a Super Bowl team? Have the Broncos ever won a game in Jacksonville? Orton is playing well, but until the o-line gets healthy and better, they will struggle to run the ball.

OL has THREE Rookies starting , and Clady banged up still. It's going to get better, real soon now. Just don't count on when.
Best news today...no more injuries!

Rohirrim
09-12-2010, 05:21 PM
Last time I looked Big John is not in the huddle.

No kidding. :oyvey:

Al Wilson
09-12-2010, 05:29 PM
Slowshon would be a star if we were still running the zone blocking scheme. I just don't see this power blocking scheme working well for us in the running game.

dsmoot
09-12-2010, 06:08 PM
Slowshon would be a star if we were still running the zone blocking scheme. I just don't see this power blocking scheme working well for us in the running game.

I would believe that if I would see him cut and go but he jukes way too much.

Cito Pelon
09-12-2010, 06:11 PM
I'm not gonna bag on anybody too much til I see some more games.

enjolras
09-12-2010, 07:11 PM
I saw two really big issues today that I think ultimately led to the loss.

1. Special teams. We seemed to have lost the field position battle today. Jacksonville had a short field and that led to at least 10 of their points. Particularly in the first half, we started a lot of our drives really deep. That makes it hard to win.

2. This looked like a preseason game for us. We had a Jacksonville TD scored with only 11 Broncos on the field. We had a couple of delay of games. Both units looked pretty confused with calls. I was worried about this. We have a new defensive coordinator, a BUNCH of new players, and with all of the injuries these units just haven't appeared to have worked all of the kinks out. The penalties and mistakes contributed greatly to what happened today. Hell we took 3 points off of the board in the first half thanks to some rather untimely penalties.

meangene
09-12-2010, 07:21 PM
My feeling is this game boiled down to a few plays:

The Beadles holding call on the first drive cost us at least 3 points.

The Buckhalter fumble cost us at least three points.

Both of the Jags first two scores were the result of the defense not being lined up correctly at the snap - one with only 10 players.

The two long kickoff returns in the second half killed us.

McBean with back to back bonehead plays gift-wrapped a touchdown.

The Jags did not play great football but they did not make mistakes or beat themselves. We did.

Natedogg
09-12-2010, 09:03 PM
Defense took too long to line up, especially in the first half.

In McD's postgame interview, he said the headsets were ****ty and completely were on on defense after the break.

Offensive line looked really bad to me.

Would love to know exactly what the **** was happening on special teams.

Very nice kick by Praetor.

Moreno looked real good.

Receivers looked good but god would i love to see someone --anyone!!-- take a play to the house.

Buck's fumble might have been the most important play of the game.

Re

TheChamp24
09-12-2010, 09:10 PM
My thoughts:
Special Teams sucks. 2 long kick returns given up, and a long punt return that thankfully got called back due to a penalty.

Offense will struggle to score points, there is no running game, shaky OL

Run defense looked awful at times, and decent at other times. Any run to the outside got good yardage though, which is where they got most of their yards I'd imagine.

No pass rush

These are things I emphasized based on preseason and are still prevalent. Run defense being iffy, no pass rush and horrible running game, yet everybody was saying its only preseason. Well, all that is still there.

outdoor_miner
09-12-2010, 09:40 PM
This game came down to a handful of plays... People have mentioned them. Penalties that stalled the 1st drive, Buckhalter, kick-off returns, 10 men on the field. It is discouraging that the Broncos are supposed to be a "smart, tough, and physical" football team, but the smart part seems to be seriously lacking.

There were definitely some positives, and hopefully the team gels as the key players play together more and more. Not writing off the season, but this is a game that a well coached team should have won.

ZONA
09-12-2010, 10:18 PM
They fought hard, played physical for the most part. Some key mistakes here and there. It's not a crime to lose on the road down in Jacksonville with that record breaking heat. The true test will be just how much and how fast they can improve throughout the year.

I think the 3 biggst problems we had today can be fixed, well at least 2 of them should be able to be fixed quickly. The 3rd, we shall see.

1) Turnovers - Ortons pick at the end of the game was not quite as costly as Bucks fumble at or near the Jags redzone. That's 3 points instantly gone and possibly could have been 7. That is taking points off the board and can't happen.

2) Kick off coverage - no excuse for that sad display. Their 3rd guy tore us up. Can't give teams the ball at the 50 all day long.

3) Orton's sacks - Orton can't just curl up and give in so easy. Yes he stood in there on some other plays and took the hit as he passed but some of alot of those sacks were on him and not the line. He needs to get rid of that ball.

baja
09-12-2010, 10:21 PM
I think those sacks looked bad because he was protecting the ball which he should do. He moves in the pocket way better than he did last year.

Gort
09-12-2010, 10:23 PM
My thoughts:
Special Teams sucks. 2 long kick returns given up, and a long punt return that thankfully got called back due to a penalty.

Offense will struggle to score points, there is no running game, shaky OL

Run defense looked awful at times, and decent at other times. Any run to the outside got good yardage though, which is where they got most of their yards I'd imagine.

No pass rush

These are things I emphasized based on preseason and are still prevalent. Run defense being iffy, no pass rush and horrible running game, yet everybody was saying its only preseason. Well, all that is still there.

pretty much what we knew at the end of the 2009 season... the Broncos can't stop the run and can't run the ball themselves. doesn't look like either problem has been fixed. gonna be a long season. i expect some teams to put up obscene rushing numbers against us this year.

The MVPlaya
09-12-2010, 10:26 PM
We need to create some more TO's on defense.

It's week 1 and Jags are a stingy team so I'll give them a pass but we definitely need to create some next week.

jutang
09-12-2010, 10:41 PM
Coaching: Offense was called pretty well. Didn't agree with going for the end zone on 4th down, but loved how they went long to Lloyd start the 3rd Q. When it works you look like a genius and when it doesn't every fan says it is a dumb move. Defense seemed more conservative than I liked. Would have preferred more blitzes, Gerrard was too comfortable back there. The D was confused on those two scoring plays and I place that squarely on coaching. ST is a freaking disaster.

Offense: I have to eat my crow regarding Orton. He is preforming much better than I thought possible. Makes smart decisions and is quite accurate downfield. His long pass to Lloyd down the sideline with a Linebacker coming up the middle untouched was an incredible play. O-Line was spotty, but that is to expected. RBs were rusty, especially Buckhalter. WR's were strong as a group. Royal and Lloyd were excellent.

Defense: McBean was the MVP for the Jaguars. Ayers is making some great progress. He was getting some occasional pressure, but unfortunately he is the only one. Any slim hope of Moss turning the corner came back down to reality.. even with his hand cast. DB's played well for the most part. Champ is slowing down, but he is still a playmaker. Dawkins seemed quiet in the wrong way... hopefully not a sign that father time has caught up to him.

SoCalBronco
09-12-2010, 10:47 PM
I think this is a relatively decent team we have. We carried the play for a majority of the game, on the road, despite operating at about 75% capacity (yes, a healthy Doom, Clady and Harris are that important). That's a pretty solid accomplishment. Unfortunately, when you have two great red zone chances killed by a fumble and a penalty, and go from possibly 14 points to 0 points, it's going to really hurt. It was an encouraging effort, albeit with a very limited pass rush.

We'll win our fair share of games this year, but we are still probably a year away from being a bona fide playoff contender.

NFLBRONCO
09-12-2010, 11:04 PM
I think this is a relatively decent team we have. We carried the play for a majority of the game, on the road, despite operating at about 75% capacity (yes, a healthy Doom, Clady and Harris are that important). That's a pretty solid accomplishment. Unfortunately, when you have two great red zone chances killed by a fumble and a penalty, and go from possibly 14 points to 0 points, it's going to really hurt. It was an encouraging effort, albeit with a very limited pass rush.

We'll win our fair share of games this year, but we are still probably a year away from being a bona fide playoff contender.

Denver needs Thomas and a gamebreaker like Spoles/Charles/Johnson. We need youth a talent on DL LB S.

SoCalBronco
09-12-2010, 11:11 PM
Denver needs Thomas and a gamebreaker like Spoles/Charles/Johnson. We need youth a talent on DL LB S.

I agree that a few more gamebreakers could help and I'm really looking forward to seeing how a guy like Bey Bey Thomas can help our offense out. I got frustrated a couple times today when we occasionally got a big hole but Moreno spent too much time dancing and juking rather than just bursting through it. We could have had a couple 30 yarders, but they turned out to be 9 yarders, so I hear what you're sayin, bro.

The DL wasn't too bad, but they didn't smother the run, either. I understand what Josh is doing there for now....they didn't really have anybody there, so they had to get some decent but somewhat flawed vets for the short term so they could have somethign to work with on the line as they begin to draft and develop younsters there the next few years. We're going to have to live with Jamal and Bannan for a couple years and that's not too bad....but the key you've got to draft a couple kids for the DL next year and then maybe another the year after so we've got something in the cupboard to replace these guys. For now, its sufficient, though.

At LB, we have 75% of the equation solved once Doom comes back. It's really only upgrading one spot. S is kind of a problem, with Dawkins losing a step, we need to have one of those two kids step up. I sure hope we can get at least one future solid starter out of McBath or Bruton, I really dont want to have to start over there, again.

baja
09-12-2010, 11:23 PM
I agree that a few more gamebreakers could help and I'm really looking forward to seeing how a guy like Bey Bey Thomas can help our offense out. I got frustrated a couple times today when we occasionally got a big hole but Moreno spent too much time dancing and juking rather than just bursting through it. We could have had a couple 30 yarders, but they turned out to be 9 yarders, so I hear what you're sayin, bro.

The DL wasn't too bad, but they didn't smother the run, either. I understand what Josh is doing there for now....they didn't really have anybody there, so they had to get some decent but somewhat flawed vets for the short term so they could have somethign to work with on the line as they begin to draft and develop younsters there the next few years. We're going to have to live with Jamal and Bannan for a couple years and that's not too bad....but the key you've got to draft a couple kids for the DL next year and then maybe another the year after so we've got something in the cupboard to replace these guys. For now, its sufficient, though.

At LB, we have 75% of the equation solved once Doom comes back. It's really only upgrading one spot. S is kind of a problem,<b> with Dawkins losing a step,</b> we need to have one of those two kids step up. I sure hope we can get at least one future solid starter out of McBath or Bruton, I really dont want to have to start over there, again.

I have voiced concern about this and it is sure to happen but I do not think the verdict is in yet with this one game in the heat.

BlaK-Argentina
09-12-2010, 11:33 PM
BTW it's nice to see some thought out, intelligent posts after a loss. Really refreshing and interesting stuff.

sgbfan
09-12-2010, 11:49 PM
So, here are my thoughts on the game.
-Orton was good, other than the pick and when he held on to the ball for too long a few times.
-This OL is young and unhealthy. If we can get our players at 100 % and our young players improve, I'm excited about them.
-Why is everyone so critical of Moreno. He played fine despite the problems with the line and missing most of TC. He was a rookie last year and was usually hit 1-2 yards behind the LOS. Let him get going with a line in front of him and he'll be pretty good I think.
-Lloyd was making plays like he was back in SF and Royal looked like the guy we know he can be. Lets hope they can keep it up.
-The DL needs to show up more. On the 2 facemasks it looked like Bannon was trying to play piggy back. They were ran all over today. At times they got into the backfield, but couldn't bring the RB down. I hope that this was due more to the fact that MJD is a freak of nature and is built like a bowling ball. I also know that the LB's might be to blame here too, but I'm not good enough to tell who's to blame more.
-DJ stood out today. He made some great plays. Ayers looks solid too. I wish we had Doom on the other side. This could be a great LB core next year. Didn't notice too much of Hunter, Moss, or Haggan. If thats good or bad, I don't know.
-Not too much critique of the secondary. They didn't need to throw it as well as they were running. I don't know that the TD's were really a problem with the secondary, except maybe the third one.
-Willis totally left his side of the field wide open. I don't know what happened on the first return, but 2 huge returns in a row is ridiculous.
-Now for first 2 TD's. On the first one, the entire DL was still standing when the ball was snapped. Call a TO dangit! On the second one we had 10 players on the field?! Ridiculous.
-So who in the game thread was getting mad at McD for going for it on fourth down late in the game? For future reference, 7-3=4! Last I checked, you still need a TD to score 4 points. Every coach in the league would do the exact same thing every time.
-I know I'm overly optimistic and delusional, but that's my nature as a fan. I saw a lot of things I like about this team. Losses are always hard to take, especially the first one, but it's a loss. There's a game next week and hopefully it turns out to be a win.

baja
09-12-2010, 11:54 PM
above;

-So who in the game thread was getting mad at McD for going for it on fourth down late in the game? For future reference, 7-3=4! Last I checked, you still need a TD to score 4 points. Every coach in the league would do the exact same thing every time.

I didn't like the call. I thought we should have taken the sure 3 and called on the D to get the ball back then play for the TD. Normally I would agree with you but in this game in the heat and on the road I felt it gave us a better chance to win and try to avoid an overtime period. to do that we needed two scores a TD and a FG.

Hunter make some plays early / Haggen had a poor game / didn't notice Moss at all.

The MVPlaya
09-13-2010, 12:23 AM
above;



I didn't like the call. I thought we should have taken the sure 3 and called on the D to get the ball back then play for the TD. Normally I would agree with you but in this game in the heat and on the road I felt it gave us a better chance to win and try to avoid an overtime period. to do that we needed two scores a TD and a FG.

Hunter make some plays early / Haggen had a poor game / didn't notice Moss at all.

You're forgetting, you're not ONLY relying on the D to get a stop, but you're also relying on the offense for 1 more drive with the game on the line...again.

Say we did get the 4th and 3 and ended up scoring. It would have been a tie game. Less pressure to drive down and score... and we only would need a drive to put us in FG position.

baja
09-13-2010, 12:32 AM
You're forgetting, you're not ONLY relying on the D to get a stop, but you're also relying on the offense for 1 more drive with the game on the line...again.

Say we did get the 4th and 3 and ended up scoring. It would have been a tie game. Less pressure to drive down and score... and we only would need a drive to put us in FG position.

you would have to rely on the D anyway to stop them and force the over time. the endzone pass was a relative long shot and my way was to kick the field goal (almost automatic) and play for the win in regulation. the last thing we needed was to play a 5th quarter.

OBF1
09-13-2010, 01:04 AM
We need to create some more TO's on defense.
It's week 1 and Jags are a stingy team so I'll give them a pass but we definitely need to create some next week.

Need to create MORE TO's..... Don't you mean create ANY turnovers???

MOCRUSH
09-13-2010, 05:02 AM
As bad as the coverage was on special teams, Cox looked damn near as bad in the return game, running sideways and stutter stepping before hitting the first wave. Zero threat.

fontaine
09-13-2010, 05:50 AM
Here's a brief thought:

What exactly has changed from 3/4 years ago?

-ST still costs us badly
-We're getting worse running the football
-We can't pressure the QB
-We can't stop the run when it counts
-Still can't score consistently in the red zone

Change the coaches, change the schemes, change the players but it won't matter until we fix the trenches.

gyldenlove
09-13-2010, 05:53 AM
I agree that a few more gamebreakers could help and I'm really looking forward to seeing how a guy like Bey Bey Thomas can help our offense out. I got frustrated a couple times today when we occasionally got a big hole but Moreno spent too much time dancing and juking rather than just bursting through it. We could have had a couple 30 yarders, but they turned out to be 9 yarders, so I hear what you're sayin, bro.

The DL wasn't too bad, but they didn't smother the run, either. I understand what Josh is doing there for now....they didn't really have anybody there, so they had to get some decent but somewhat flawed vets for the short term so they could have somethign to work with on the line as they begin to draft and develop younsters there the next few years. We're going to have to live with Jamal and Bannan for a couple years and that's not too bad....but the key you've got to draft a couple kids for the DL next year and then maybe another the year after so we've got something in the cupboard to replace these guys. For now, its sufficient, though.

At LB, we have 75% of the equation solved once Doom comes back. It's really only upgrading one spot. S is kind of a problem, with Dawkins losing a step, we need to have one of those two kids step up. I sure hope we can get at least one future solid starter out of McBath or Bruton, I really dont want to have to start over there, again.

I think the really big problem with the game yesterday is that almost every single player on our team could have and should have played a little bit better.
A few idiots on the team need to step up big time, but mostly it was a performance of almost.

Eddie Royal was genuinely good, he definitely looks like he is back to his rookie form, he was using his quickness, he was elusive, he was making key catches and getting open. Spencer Larsen looked good, he had some good blocks and actually made a catch, isn't it stupid that a converted linebacker has more career receptions than our 2nd round sophomore tight end?

Robert Ayers was good, he has gained about half a step from last year and he still needs to find another half step and get more consistent against the run, he still has some plays where he has to react to the play and he ends up just standing around because he can't decide what to do before the play has already passed him by.

Br0nc0Buster
09-13-2010, 05:58 AM
Here's a brief thought:

What exactly has changed from 3/4 years ago?

-ST still costs us badly
-We're getting worse running the football
-We can't pressure the QB
-We can't stop the run when it counts
-Still can't score consistently in the red zone

Change the coaches, change the schemes, change the players but it won't matter until we fix the trenches.

dont know how you can say that
we stopped them on 4th and inches
also stopped them at the end of the game to give our offense another shot

Garcia Bronco
09-13-2010, 06:02 AM
Moreno dances because his whole NFL career he gets hit at the LOS. Our run blocking isn't good enough. Heck even Larsen tackled our runningbacks yesterday.

fontaine
09-13-2010, 06:39 AM
dont know how you can say that
we stopped them on 4th and inches
also stopped them at the end of the game to give our offense another shot

- Every time we went to nickel the Jags abused us in the run game.

- In the 2nd half they churned out three scoring drives with 6 first downs on the ground vs 3 in the air.

- They gained 81 of their 134 yards in the 2nd half.

They pretty much dominated us on the ground in the 2nd half. But that's nothing new. We've drafted two DL in the top two rounds in the past five years: Moss and Crowder.

That pretty tells you all you need to know about our run D.

Guys like Bannan/Williams are one or two year band aids at best. If we were going to continue down the road of ignoring the DL in the draft then why bother getting rid of Shanahan who had that down to an art?

Smiling Assassin27
09-13-2010, 07:21 AM
1. Same ol' Broncos. First quarter, Beadles takes a drive killing penalty, we end up punting. Buckhalter puts the ball on the ground as we're going for a sure 3, maybe 7. McBean takes not one, but two facemask penalties on the same drive, giving away points. Defense has one stop to make (Garrard's final march) and cannot get off the field. This is all the same stuff we saw last year. Very disappointing from that perspective and the same thing that always happens to us in Florida in September.

2. Moreno ran well. He's still got some learning to do but showed some seriously live moves. I'd like to see him finish off runs better but he's elusive and progressing perfectly for a year 2 player.

3. Haggan looked old and slow when matched up v Lewis in the pass game. That's becaue he's old and slow. As I predicted, the LB corps is the weakness, and in a 3-4, that's suicide.

4. Orton looked good. That last INT was on him, though, and we simply cannot afford to turn it over with a defense that doesn't force turnovers itself. You lose that battle, you lose the game. No margin for error with this team, given a defense that is still suspect against the run and not in the business of forcing turnovers or sacks.

5. Moving on. The good news is that we had a chance to win this one and that there are some quality teams at 0-1 as well. The bad news is that this defense looks about the same as last year and that this team looks competitive but inferior from a talent standpoint again.

tsiguy96
09-13-2010, 07:35 AM
when was the last time winning the first game of the season has done anyhting for us?

1-0=no playoffs

0-1=playoffs?

Br0nc0Buster
09-13-2010, 07:42 AM
- Every time we went to nickel the Jags abused us in the run game.

- In the 2nd half they churned out three scoring drives with 6 first downs on the ground vs 3 in the air.

- They gained 81 of their 134 yards in the 2nd half.

They pretty much dominated us on the ground in the 2nd half. But that's nothing new. We've drafted two DL in the top two rounds in the past five years: Moss and Crowder.

That pretty tells you all you need to know about our run D.

Guys like Bannan/Williams are one or two year band aids at best. If we were going to continue down the road of ignoring the DL in the draft then why bother getting rid of Shanahan who had that down to an art?

I didnt say our run defense was good, but you said we couldnt stop them when it counts
we did tho
4th and one we stopped them in a crucial situation
end of the game we stopped them in another crucial situation
our defense got gassed for a bit in the third, and they ran rough shod over us then

you shouldnt of said "when it counts" when our run D showed up in arguably the two biggest plays of the game
our defense got hosed by our ST, and our offense didnt help them either
D didnt play well, but werent awful like some are inferring

as far as ignoring the D line, our entire defense was garbage, it is going to take time to get a good one because with the exception of Doom, Champ, and DJ everyone else needed to be replaced

its not like Dline was the only problem with our 08 defense

fontaine
09-13-2010, 07:46 AM
5. Moving on. The good news is that we had a chance to win this one and that there are some quality teams at 0-1 as well. The bad news is that this defense looks about the same as last year and that this team looks competitive but inferior from a talent standpoint again.

Pretty much what I've been saying as well.

We will get better with Clady/Harris getting healthy, Ayers improving, the young OL gelling and Decker/Thomas.

But we're still too far away from a talent standpoint along the DL, TE, QB etc.

I was really hoping we'd bring in some quality drafts for the DL with Champ aging but it looks now that by the time we get around to really addressing the DL by drafting blue chip prospects and developing them, our secondary will be an issue again with Champ/Hill/Goodman/Dawkins probably gone or close to the end.

Oh well.

Br0nc0Buster
09-13-2010, 07:47 AM
I thought the skill players on offense played pretty well
the Oline was bad, at run blocking and pass pro
defense did OK with the run, but we kept losing containment on the outside runs
Ayers played well
DJ did pretty good
Haggan was very dissapointing
didnt blitz as much as I thought we would
ST were an absolute joke

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-13-2010, 07:48 AM
Here's a brief thought:

What exactly has changed from 3/4 years ago?

-ST still costs us badly
-We're getting worse running the football
-We can't pressure the QB
-We can't stop the run when it counts
-Still can't score consistently in the red zone

Change the coaches, change the schemes, change the players but it won't matter until we fix the trenches.

You're so right. Why haven't we flipped that "trenches" switch to the "fixed" position yet?

GOD, MCD SO DUM LULZ

gyldenlove
09-13-2010, 07:54 AM
when was the last time winning the first game of the season has done anyhting for us?

1-0=no playoffs

0-1=playoffs?

2009:
2 of 12 playoff teams started 0-1

2008:
4 of 12 playoff teams started 0-1

2007:
3 of 12 playoff teams started 0-1

2006:
3 of 12 playoff teams started 0-1

2005:
4 of 12 playoff teams started 0-1 (including the 13-3 Broncos)

On average about 3 teams who lost this week will make the playoffs which is the bad news, the good news is that the last time we made the playoffs we lost week 1 in Florida (@miami).

Atwater4life
09-13-2010, 07:58 AM
2009:
2 of 12 playoff teams started 0-1

2008:
4 of 12 playoff teams started 0-1

2007:
3 of 12 playoff teams started 0-1

2006:
3 of 12 playoff teams started 0-1

2005:
4 of 12 playoff teams started 0-1 (including the 13-3 Broncos)






On average about 3 teams who lost this week will make the playoffs which is the bad news, the good news is that the last time we made the playoffs we lost week 1 in Florida (@miami).


How many started out 6-0 and didn't make it?:welcome:

outdoor_miner
09-13-2010, 08:02 AM
1. Same ol' Broncos. First quarter, Beadles takes a drive killing penalty, we end up punting. Buckhalter puts the ball on the ground as we're going for a sure 3, maybe 7. McBean takes not one, but two facemask penalties on the same drive, giving away points. Defense has one stop to make (Garrard's final march) and cannot get off the field. This is all the same stuff we saw last year. Very disappointing from that perspective and the same thing that always happens to us in Florida in September.

I agree with your whole post, but this is the biggest thing to me. It is so frustrating that, for the past 10 games or so, we have been the team making the mistakes to lose the game. That is coaching. I like McD, but he needs to fix it.

Pony Boy
09-13-2010, 08:04 AM
Elvis has left the building...
Our special teams are not so special.....

fontaine
09-13-2010, 08:06 AM
I didnt say our run defense was good, but you said we couldnt stop them when it counts
we did tho
4th and one we stopped them in a crucial situation
end of the game we stopped them in another crucial situation
our defense got gassed for a bit in the third, and they ran rough shod over us then

you shouldnt of said "when it counts" when our run D showed up in arguably the two biggest plays of the game
our defense got hosed by our ST, and our offense didnt help them either
D didnt play well, but werent awful like some are inferring

as far as ignoring the D line, our entire defense was garbage, it is going to take time to get a good one because with the exception of Doom, Champ, and DJ everyone else needed to be replaced

its not like Dline was the only problem with our 08 defense

I hear you.

Yes those two stops were vital but we also gave up 6 first downs + 81 rushing yards in the 2nd half. I view those just as importantly because if we had gotten the job done against the run in those areas then we wouldn't have been in a position to have to make those two crucial stops.

I'm going on about the DL because that's what McD wanted from day 1. To improve the trenches and I've yet to really see any real improvement.

fontaine
09-13-2010, 08:11 AM
You're so right. Why haven't we flipped that "trenches" switch to the "fixed" position yet?

GOD, MCD SO DUM LULZ

Well, because in order to flip the switch on you actually need to have drafted the players to do it.

With 8 draft picks in the last two years in the first two rounds you'd figure at least one would be used to fill in for a NT or DE.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-13-2010, 08:15 AM
Well, because in order to flip the switch on you actually need to have drafted the players to do it.

With 8 draft picks in the last two years in the first two rounds you'd figure at least one would be used to fill in for a NT or DE.

Sure, I get that. Makes perfect sense. But the fact is we had a lot of needs in a lot of places. This was a rebuilding project no matter how you look at it, and who's to say that if we'd drafted NT/DE we wouldn't be hurting somewhere else?

Again, I understand what you're saying.

gyldenlove
09-13-2010, 08:19 AM
How many started out 6-0 and didn't make it?:welcome:

nfl.com

Steve Sewell
09-13-2010, 08:21 AM
Here are my thoughts:

1) The Jags have an excellent run game, and it gives Garrard the opportunity to put together above average passing games and look like an above average QB.

2) We left 6-14 points off the board due to the Beadles hold on the first drive and Buckhalter fumble. Those are the type of things that will kill ANY NFL team when on the road.

3) I was actually pretty surprised at how healthy Knowshon looked. I know some of the tards on this site are already ripping into him, but considering that he didn't play in any preseason games and only returned to practice a little over a week ago, he looked good. It is obvious that we game planned to pass first because of this. Watch out for more running as they ease Knowshon back into the program.

4) Orton and the WRs looked AWESOME. This is only going to get better and better.

5) I have confidence that McD will clean things up this week and destroy Seattle next week at home.

fontaine
09-13-2010, 08:37 AM
Sure, I get that. Makes perfect sense. But the fact is we had a lot of needs in a lot of places. This was a rebuilding project no matter how you look at it, and who's to say that if we'd drafted NT/DE we wouldn't be hurting somewhere else?

Again, I understand what you're saying.

Well, every team has needs but drafting a project QB, moving up for a blocking TE when you already have Graham and trading a future first for a smallish CB and drafting a WR in the first aren't needs compared to the gaping hole along the DL.

I'm not criticizing McD because it's not all on him and he deserves three years before we can really take stock but we've had enough opportunities, enough excuses, and the product on the field is there for all to see.

LetsGoBroncos
09-13-2010, 08:39 AM
My feeling is this game boiled down to a few plays:

The Beadles holding call on the first drive cost us at least 3 points.

The Buckhalter fumble cost us at least three points.

Both of the Jags first two scores were the result of the defense not being lined up correctly at the snap - one with only 10 players.

The two long kickoff returns in the second half killed us.

McBean with back to back bonehead plays gift-wrapped a touchdown.

The Jags did not play great football but they did not make mistakes or beat themselves. We did.

Exactly what I said yesterday to my friends and family

Steve Sewell
09-13-2010, 08:40 AM
I would say that drafting NT/DT high is probably the biggest crapshoot in all of professional football personnel moves.

PRBronco
09-13-2010, 08:43 AM
Let's talk more about Ayers' spin move. That was ****ing sweet.

fontaine
09-13-2010, 08:47 AM
I would say that drafting NT/DT high is probably the biggest crapshoot in all of professional football personnel moves.

Except it isn't for teams that are perennial playoff contenders, that have a system in place and know exactly the kind of raw tools they need. It may not work every time but you gotta roll the dice to get a chance to win.

Walking away because you don't like the odds means you've lost before you even gave yourself a chance to win.

Yeah it can be a crapshoot with the DL, but so is drafting a project QB with a questionable throwing motion! :)

Mountain Bronco
09-13-2010, 08:48 AM
Orton is servicable, but won't win us games. His deep balls were simply jump balls so don't get to excited, still can't toss a good 15 yard out and lacks velocity
Loyd will replace a good bit of Marshalls production, but again will fail in the big moments (get your freaking foot down, Marshall makes that catch)
Champ didn't look great, good, but nothing spectacular - hope the price tag isn't too steep on that extension
Outside of DJ our linebackers are weak (Ayers has potential but still gets lost)
DLine again got pushed around (thought we were bigger and stronger???)
Special teams is a big issue - again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Knowshon has to quite dancing
Buckhalter is a shadow of last years self
Penalties once again killed us - a sign of an unprepared team

misturanderson
09-13-2010, 08:51 AM
Orton is servicable, but won't win us games. His deep balls were simply jump balls so don't get to excited, still can't toss a good 15 yard out and lacks velocity
Loyd will replace a good bit of Marshalls production, but again will fail in the big moments (get your freaking foot down, Marshall makes that catch)
Champ didn't look great, good, but nothing spectacular - hope the price tag isn't too steep on that extension
Outside of DJ our linebackers are weak (Ayers has potential but still gets lost)
DLine again got pushed around (thought we were bigger and stronger???)
Special teams is a big issue - again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Knowshon has to quite dancing
Buckhalter is a shadow of last years self
Penalties once again killed us - a sign of an unprepared team

And I stopped reading there. That was an incredible effort that he missed by about 2 inches. That grab would have been the close to if not the greatest catch of Marshall's career if he had made it. Marshall's greatest skill was running after the catch, not necessarily catching poorly thrown balls.

Tombstone RJ
09-13-2010, 08:52 AM
Orton is servicable, but won't win us games. His deep balls were simply jump balls so don't get to excited, still can't toss a good 15 yard out and lacks velocity
Loyd will replace a good bit of Marshalls production, but again will fail in the big moments (get your freaking foot down, Marshall makes that catch)
Champ didn't look great, good, but nothing spectacular - hope the price tag isn't too steep on that extension
Outside of DJ our linebackers are weak (Ayers has potential but still gets lost)
DLine again got pushed around (thought we were bigger and stronger???)
Special teams is a big issue - again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Knowshon has to quite dancing
Buckhalter is a shadow of last years self
Penalties once again killed us - a sign of an unprepared team

So, Orton will just lose us games, right? I take you started being a Broncos fan circa 1998.

Spider
09-13-2010, 08:55 AM
And I stopped reading there. That was an incredible effort that he missed by about 2 inches. That grab would have been the close to if not the greatest catch of Marshall's career if he had made it.

yeah ........ I agree .. some of these dumb asses around here ....... theJagoffs played good , but they didnt play well enough to beat us , we beat ourselfs with turnovers and some stupid ass penalties ....... and not like the one last night with the Crackboys and Deadskins , that last penalty was legit , but that last face mask on numbnuts for the broncos should have been a 5 yards ...........

Mountain Bronco
09-13-2010, 09:05 AM
yeah ........ I agree .. some of these dumb asses around here ....... theJagoffs played good , but they didnt play well enough to beat us , we beat ourselfs with turnovers and some stupid ass penalties ....... and not like the one last night with the Crackboys and Deadskins , that last penalty was legit , but that last face mask on numbnuts for the broncos should have been a 5 yards ...........

Um scoreboard, they apparently did play well enough to beat us, because they got the W. Turnovers and penalties are part of how well you played by the way and we didn't play as well as the Jags because of those two factors and the fact that we can't stop the run.

Drink some more coolaid folks you are going to need it over the course of this year.

Spider
09-13-2010, 09:07 AM
Um scoreboard, they apparently did play well enough to beat us, because they got the W. Turnovers and penalties are part of how well you played by the way and we didn't play as well as the Jags because of those two factors and the fact that we can't stop the run.

Drink some more coolaid folks you are going to need it over the course of this year.

ROFL! no there is a difference , a big difference ....... so ummmmmmm scoreboard that captain ..... there is a world of difference in beating yourself and the other team beating you .......But I am not here to fix stupid .....so carry on

misturanderson
09-13-2010, 09:42 AM
yeah ........ I agree .. some of these dumb asses around here ....... theJagoffs played good , but they didnt play well enough to beat us , we beat ourselfs with turnovers and some stupid ass penalties ....... and not like the one last night with the Crackboys and Deadskins , that last penalty was legit , but that last face mask on numbnuts for the broncos should have been a 5 yards ...........

They don't have 5 yard facemask penalties any more. If you get called, it's 15 yards every time now.

Spider
09-13-2010, 09:45 AM
They don't have 5 yard facemask penalties any more. If you get called, it's 15 yards every time now.

I know ..... one of the new rule changes ........ every year they make new rules to help the offenses even more

Dagmar
09-13-2010, 10:03 AM
How many started out 6-0 and didn't make it?:welcome:

How many had a 3 game lead with 3 games to go and didn't make it? :welcome:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-13-2010, 10:35 AM
Orton is servicable, but won't win us games. His deep balls were simply jump balls so don't get to excited, still can't toss a good 15 yard out and lacks velocity
Loyd will replace a good bit of Marshalls production, but again will fail in the big moments (get your freaking foot down, Marshall makes that catch)
Champ didn't look great, good, but nothing spectacular - hope the price tag isn't too steep on that extension
Outside of DJ our linebackers are weak (Ayers has potential but still gets lost)
DLine again got pushed around (thought we were bigger and stronger???)
Special teams is a big issue - again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Knowshon has to quite dancing
Buckhalter is a shadow of last years self
Penalties once again killed us - a sign of an unprepared team

Just admit it: you didn't watch the game. It's okay. Admitting you have a problem is the first step.

No chance you watched yesterday's game and came away with "Kyle Orton doesn't throw with any velocity, and every ball is a jump ball." Impossible.

Or... er, wait... I may have stepped in it here... are you blind?

Kaylore
09-13-2010, 10:58 AM
I love how he says "Marshall makes that catch" when he dropped balls all the time in the endzone.

PRBronco
09-13-2010, 11:16 AM
I love how he says "Marshall makes that catch" when he dropped balls all the time in the endzone.

Lol seriously. Fitz makes that catch. Chris Carter makes that catch. Brandon Marshall beats women.

BlaK-Argentina
09-13-2010, 11:18 AM
Lol seriously. Fitz makes that catch. Chris Carter makes that catch. Brandon Marshall beats women.

That was a tough catch for ANYONE. No one really "makes that catch". 2 times out of 10 that's an incomplete pass no matter who the WR is.

theAPAOps5
09-13-2010, 11:19 AM
I love how he says "Marshall makes that catch" when he dropped balls all the time in the endzone.

Because he thinks it makes him cool!

ColoradoDarin
09-13-2010, 11:30 AM
Ok, I was at the game yesterday and just finished watching on TV, my thoughts:

The Good:
Brandon Lloyd - he had a good game, and it would have been great had he been able to get the 2nd foot down for the last TD
Robert Ayers - He is going to be a force, he has made some serious strides since last year.
Kyle Orton - His play overall was solid, he needs a little more situational awareness (not taking a sack that puts us out of FG range)
Knowshon Moreno - Ran hard, made some people miss, and gained some tough yards on the ground
Eddie Royal - He looks like he's going to be the new slot machine

The Not-So Good:
Buckhalter - Fumbles drive me nuts. He looked either rusty or old, I'm hoping it's rust.
The Offensive line - They looked better in the run game, but a key penalty cost us points and Kampman was in Orton's face the whole day.
Special Teams coverage - looked a lot better in preseason. The Jags took out one kickoff that was 8 yards deep in the end zone. We have moments where we shine, but need some consistency.
Dawkins in pass coverage - On the Jags 3rd TD, Dawkins was late lining up the receiver and as soon as I saw it presnap, I knew that's where they were going. Ugh.


The All We're Trying to Do is Win a MF'ing game!
Wink - The defense looked like they had no idea what plays were called, what players should be out there and where they should be lined up. I don't know how much the loss of the headsets played into this. I don't understand why we didn't burn a timeout when we had 10 men on the field, I saw it from the stands too - we don't have 11 out there!
Richard Quinn - I think he might be as dumb as he who I'm not going to name.
McBean - Good job already tackling and THEN grabbing the facemask - TWICE! I bet he had to find his way back to Denver on his own.

bloodsunday
09-14-2010, 02:09 PM
Here's a brief thought:

What exactly has changed from 3/4 years ago?

-ST still costs us badly
-We're getting worse running the football
-We can't pressure the QB
-We can't stop the run when it counts
-Still can't score consistently in the red zone

Change the coaches, change the schemes, change the players but it won't matter until we fix the trenches.

I whole heartedly agree on the DL. Really our defense in general is getting old. It sure looks like we screwed the pooch passing on Orakpo :( That guy single-handedly beat Dallas on Sunday.

At least we used early picks on the OL this year. While it's too early to know what we have there, they are starters. I really wish Harris could stay healthy, then maybe we'd have a solid/dominant unit there: Clady, Beadles, Walton, Kuper, Harris. Not bad.

When I watch Denver, I see a generally solid team capable of competing, but I don't see hardly any game-changers. (And I am not one that believes Cutler and Marshall were those guys either by the way). Short of Clady and possibly Doom, who can we say is among the best in the NFL at their position? Bailey and Dawkins continue to make Pro Bowls on reputation, but they don't seem to make many plays anymore. I also don't see a team capable of winning a bruising slug-fest.

vancejohnson82
09-14-2010, 02:14 PM
damnit.....i thought this was going to be brief

Naggle Nole
09-14-2010, 02:21 PM
I whole heartedly agree on the DL. Really our defense in general is getting old. It sure looks like we screwed the pooch passing on Orakpo :( That guy single-handedly beat Dallas on Sunday.

You do realize that Orakpo plays OLB in the 'Skins 3-4 right? Put him at 3-4 DE and he will get washed out of running plays.
He would need to put on about 30 pounds to make that work

Still, the guy was forcing good pressure and I won't try to take that away from him
He forced Alex Barron into losing the game for Dallas
But other than that, he had two tackles and no sacks
Hardly elite production for a top 15 pick playing the premier stat-producing position of the 3-4