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Gort
09-12-2010, 11:20 AM
this is an excellent example of why McD brings better strategic mind to the game than Shanny.

with 50 seconds in the half, McD has his offense try for a score and succeeds. under Shanny, we'd have had a run up the middle for 3 yards and then the QB kneeling on the next down, with Shanny content to go into halftime trailing 7-0 and with the Jags getting the ball to start the 2nd half.

i've always argued that EVERY possession must be an attempt to score. you get so few per game, you have to try to score each time you have the ball. especially when you have a chance just before halftime when the other team is due to get the ball to start the 2nd half.

instead of the Jags leading 7-0 and having momentum, McD has stolen their thunder and sent his team to the lock room 7-7.

+1 McD.

Broncos_OTM
09-12-2010, 11:22 AM
this is an excellent example of why McD brings better strategic mind to the game than Shanny.Totally worth its own thread ...

Malcontent
09-12-2010, 11:25 AM
Totally worth its own thread ...

Maybe not threadworthy, but it is the truth...:thumbs:

Al Wilson
09-12-2010, 11:30 AM
You're an idiot. 50 seconds left and 3 timeouts and Shanny would run the ball and kneel to end the half. Right..........

Wes Mantooth
09-12-2010, 11:30 AM
I really like McD, but Shanny 2SB's McD 0.

Ambiguous
09-12-2010, 11:32 AM
I really like McD, but Shanny 2SB's McD 0.

Mcd should have picked up 2 rings last year.

Gort
09-12-2010, 11:32 AM
You're an idiot. 50 seconds left and 3 timeouts and Shanny would run the ball and kneel to end the half. Right..........

he did it time and time again. anyone watching Shanny in 2006/2007/2008 saw this exact scenario repeatedly. he was so concerned about not making a mistake at the end of the half that he would run out the clock. problem was that under Shanny, they didn't usually make good halftime adjustments.

i used to get so frustrated watching it.

Kid A
09-12-2010, 11:32 AM
He might have played it a little more conservatively, but I'm pretty sure he and 90% of NFL coaches try to get some yards with 3 timeouts left, when 40 yds gets you in FG range. Great drive by Orton to take 7.

Al Wilson
09-12-2010, 11:34 AM
F off. he did it time and time again. anyone watching Shanny in 2006/2007/2008 saw this exact scenario. he was so concerned about not making a mistake at the end of the half that he would run out the clock. problem was that under Shanny, they didn't make good halftime adjustments.

so again, F off.
This thread is so stupid and retarded. You dumbass, any coach in the NFL that has 50 seconds to go in the half with 3 timeouts left and ball on your 26 yard line would try to go and get atleast 3 points. I love Josh McDaniels as coach, but this thread is just stupid.

Gort
09-12-2010, 11:38 AM
This thread is so stupid and retarded. You dumbass, any coach in the NFL that has 50 seconds to go in the half with 3 timeouts left and ball on your 26 yard line would try to go and get atleast 3 points. I love Josh McDaniels as coach, but this thread is just stupid.

you are wrong.

Shanny was afraid of giving up a defensive score and almost always played it safe in this situation in his last few years in Denver.

only if they got an unexpectedly large gain on play #1 or #2 would he use a TO.

with 50 seconds and deep in his own territory, he would call a run up the middle or a screen. 9 times out of 10 his drive ending with the QB kneeling and running out the clock.

Gort
09-12-2010, 12:23 PM
just looking at Shanny's last year in 2008, i found 5 games where Shanny went ultra-cautious when getting the ball with under a minute in DEN territory just before the half. in all cases, the offense made only a halfhearted effort to gain yardage (i.e., runs or short passes). only when they got lucky with a big gain or a defensive penalty, did they then attempt to actually try and get a drive mounted.

against JAX

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=281012007&period=2

against NE

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=281020017&period=2

against ATL

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=281116001&period=2

against CAR

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=281214029&period=2

against BUF

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=281221007&period=2

Jesterhole
09-12-2010, 12:25 PM
Worthless thread from a worthless poster. No one cares that you, for some reason, don't like Shanahan, or that you want McDouche's baby.

Gort
09-12-2010, 12:26 PM
Worthless thread from a worthless poster. No one cares that you, for some reason, don't like Shanahan, or that you want McDouche's baby.

whatever. i am neutral on Shanny. but i hated that he'd concede drives at the end of the half. he did it time and time again. you should change your username to piehole, so i could tell you to shut it.

Missouribronc
09-12-2010, 12:28 PM
Shanahan would have never made it that far into a half with three timeouts. Therefore he never was in that scenario.

rbackfactory80
09-12-2010, 12:50 PM
Shanahan was a gambler straight up, for every 5 games you pull up wasting your time there are five more proving your theory incorrect. Problem is I wont waste my time finding them. Make sure you are looking at other details that highlight our strengths and weaknesses of that day such as how hot our QB is. Orton threw it well in the first half despite failing to put points on the board which ultimately made the decision easy.

Gort
09-12-2010, 01:10 PM
Shanahan was a gambler straight up, for every 5 games you pull up wasting your time there are five more proving your theory incorrect. Problem is I wont waste my time finding them. Make sure you are looking at other details that highlight our strengths and weaknesses of that day such as how hot our QB is. Orton threw it well in the first half despite failing to put points on the board which ultimately made the decision easy.

there are no examples to counter my point.

i guess facts don't matter to you.

if Shanny had the ball with 3 minutes left or let's say they started at midfield, then yes, of course Shanny would try to score.

but one thing about Shanny that you people are forgetting is that Shanny was risk averse.

in a situation, similar to today's game, there is no disputing that Shanny would have tried a simple run or short screen and would have been content to run out the clock. unless there was a defense penalty of some sort, or they did well on the play, Shanny was always happy to go to halftime rather than give up a pick six or an easy FG for the opponent off of a fumble.

i never liked it, but it's part of Shanny's philosophy. McD didn't do that today, and that's why i pointed out how much i appreciated that about McD.

if you don't believe me, so what? i don't care what anonymous loudmouths like yourself on a football board think.

but you'll see. Shanny will do the same in DC. it's who he is. he won't change. and Redksins fans will get frustrated as well, because this scenario happens 3-5 times a year. offense gets the ball deep in their own territory with under a minute or a minute-and-a-half to play in the half, regardless of the timeout situation or score, Shanny will play extra conservatively.

fontaine
09-12-2010, 01:34 PM
Results are all that matter and in that:

McD = Shanny

This team now, is no different than under Shanahan a few years ago.

We still get run on, can't rush the QB, aren't scoring in the red zone.

rbackfactory80
09-12-2010, 01:34 PM
there are no examples to counter my point.

i guess facts don't matter to you.

if Shanny had the ball with 3 minutes left or let's say they started at midfield, then yes, of course Shanny would try to score.

but one thing about Shanny that you people are forgetting is that Shanny was risk averse.

in a situation, similar to today's game, there is no disputing that Shanny would have tried a simple run or short screen and would have been content to run out the clock. unless there was a defense penalty of some sort, or they did well on the play, Shanny was always happy to go to halftime rather than give up a pick six or an easy FG for the opponent off of a fumble.

i never liked it, but it's part of Shanny's philosophy. McD didn't do that today, and that's why i pointed out how much i appreciated that about McD.

if you don't believe me, so what? i don't care what anonymous loudmouths like yourself on a football board think.

but you'll see. Shanny will do the same in DC. it's who he is. he won't change. and Redksins fans will get frustrated as well, because this scenario happens 3-5 times a year. offense gets the ball deep in their own territory with under a minute or a minute-and-a-half to play in the half, regardless of the timeout situation or score, Shanny will play extra conservatively.

You are such a pretentious douche. I feel bad for you. I don't have to look up anything to tell Shanahan liked to gamble. I watch the games.

broncosteven
09-12-2010, 01:35 PM
Does mCd get -2 for going for it on 4th and 3 rather than kick a FG, hope to hold (which they did) then try to get the ball back for the winning drive?

Gort
09-12-2010, 01:42 PM
Does mCd get -2 for going for it on 4th and 3 rather than kick a FG, hope to hold (which they did) then try to get the ball back for the winning drive?

why do you think that was the right choice? they either a) tie it there with a TD or b) they have to get a FG, hold the Jags on D, then drive for a TD? if you ask me, option b) was much more difficult that a).

Gort
09-12-2010, 01:43 PM
You are such a pretentious douche. I feel bad for you. I don't have to look up anything to tell Shanahan liked to gamble. I watch the games.

so, that's pretty much the equivalent of holding your hands over your ears, sticking out your tongue, singing "na na na.. na naaa na" and "i can't hear you". what are you, 6 years old?

yerner
09-12-2010, 01:44 PM
you're an asshole.

fontaine
09-12-2010, 01:46 PM
Does mCd get -2 for going for it on 4th and 3 rather than kick a FG, hope to hold (which they did) then try to get the ball back for the winning drive?

FG wasn't going to get us anywhere and we had the best field position to get a TD then (and not later with only seconds left deep in our own half).

That play wasn't on McD. Orton needed to put in a better throw, Lloyd gave it his all.

You run the same play, same scenario dozens of times in preseason. One play left in the game, one pass from the red zone to deep in the corner of the end zone with your WR on a one on one matchup. The OL gave him time, the Lloyd did a great job but Orton's throw was a bit off.

broncosteven
09-12-2010, 01:50 PM
FG wasn't going to get us anywhere and we had the best field position to get a TD then (and not later with only seconds left deep in our own half).

That play wasn't on McD. Orton needed to put in a better throw, Lloyd gave it his all.

Still only gives a tie when we could have been playing for the lead. I guess teams hope for tie on road and go for win at home.

Jesterhole
09-12-2010, 01:59 PM
We only needed three yards for a first down. I don't mind going for it, but going for the end zone was stupid.

Whatever, this team was in no way ready to play, and that can only be placed at the feet of McDouche.

colonelbeef
09-12-2010, 01:59 PM
New England won 3 superbowls before McDaniels was an OC, and just started this season with a rout of the Bengals.

Funny how they seem to do just fine on offense without that genius coordinator.

colonelbeef
09-12-2010, 01:59 PM
so, that's pretty much the equivalent of holding your hands over your ears, sticking out your tongue, singing "na na na.. na naaa na" and "i can't hear you". what are you, 6 years old?

You're lost dude.

Gort
09-12-2010, 06:58 PM
...and Shanny's Redskins do nearly the exact same thing tonight. they get the ball deep in their own territory with about 1:45 to go in the half. probably a little too much time considering Dallas had 3 timeouts, so they call a medium pass play and it works! immediate timeout. but then back to short passes to eat up the clock and go into halftime with the score as it is. no real effort to move the ball downfield... just enough effort to get away from their endzone and that's it. they end up punting with 2 timeouts left unused.

they get lucky because Dallas doesn't run out the clock and ends up fumbling, so Washington gets another 7 points before halftime, but my original point stands and was PROVEN yet again tonight. Shanny is risk averse before the half. and seeing what happened to Dallas is why he's risk averse. still, he did this too often when he was in Denver (i.e., conceding possessions before halftime by only making a halfhearted effort to move the ball).

all the jerks who slammed me earlier in this thread because they couldn't be bothered to argue the merits of the original post and simply responded with insults or by telling me that Shanny never does this just got owned. which is hilarious.

ROFL!

The Joker
09-12-2010, 07:01 PM
On the flip side, the scoreline you've listed in the thread title is going to look pretty ****ing stupid in about two hours time.

Gort
09-12-2010, 07:05 PM
On the flip side, the scoreline you've listed in the thread title is going to look pretty ****ing stupid in about two hours time.

i didn't mean "McD 1 Shanny 0" to be the final score. just in this one department, McD's philosophy is better than Shanny's in my opinion. Josh just watched JAX march for a score and could have kneeled on the ball and gone into halftime down 7-0. which is what Shanny would have done because he had done that so often in that situation in the past. McD said... "what the hell, let's try and get some points" and the first play is a long pass down the sideline. it's that attitude that i like. specifically not conceding a possession before half when the other team is getting the 2nd half kickoff. if JAX had scored at the end of the 2nd quarter, and then marched down to score at the beginning of the 3rd, that would have been a huge momentum builder for them. i'm glad we got 7 out of that drive to nullify what they did. we still lost, but we did that one thing right and i was glad to see it.

i'm not a Shanny hater. i just thought his act had grown stale in Denver. he did some petty things i didn't like either. this was one of his shortcomings strategically... being risk averse. it works for some. it even worked for Washington tonight before the half. but it's not my philosophy.

scttgrd
09-12-2010, 07:07 PM
As most McDaniels fanboys, you will look like more of an a** the later we get into the season.

Gort
09-12-2010, 07:10 PM
As most McDaniels fanboys, you will look like more of an a** the later we get into the season.

that's pretty funny.

i'm not a fanboy of McD or anybody else.

i know you're probably 23 and haven't experienced life yet and don't know anything about anything yet, but i could give a rat's ass in the grand scheme of things who the coach is, or who the QB is. i root for the Broncos and have since 1977. i want to see them win. whether it's with Reeves or Philips or Shanny or McD or Morton or Elway or Griese or Plummer or Cutler or Orton.

it's funny how people like you think everything is a popularity contest. all opinions for you must be dictated by whether you like player A more than player B or coach A more than coach B, huh?

Rabb
09-12-2010, 07:13 PM
whenever we have a loss, I always look forward to coming here to watch people freak out and turn into internet cannibals

you are all awesome

never change, please

go Broncos

scttgrd
09-12-2010, 07:16 PM
that's pretty funny.

i'm not a fanboy of McD or anybody else.

i know you're probably 23 and haven't experienced life yet and don't know anything about anything yet, but i could give a rat's ass in the grand scheme of things who the coach is, or who the QB is. i root for the Broncos and have since 1977. i want to see them win. whether it's with Reeves or Philips or Shanny or McD or Morton or Elway or Griese or Plummer or Cutler or Orton.

it's funny how people like you think everything is a popularity contest. all opinions for you must be dictated by whether you like player A more than player B or coach A more than coach B, huh?

Sorry for you, I see what's put on the field. All the problems Shanny had are still haunting this team. And 1977 was a long time ago, you would think you would have learned a thing or two. I know I figured out how to see crap football when I see it. You aren't the oldest fan on the board.

Gort
09-12-2010, 07:19 PM
whenever we have a loss, I always look forward to coming here to watch people freak out and turn into internet cannibals

you are all awesome

never change, please

go Broncos

the Orangemane is entertainment. i've never understood people who get all bent out of shape about what anonymous people think of their opinions. i mostly try for humor in my posts. sometimes i'll engage in a battle of wits with people here. i know it's unfair, because alot of them come to battle unarmed, but so what? it's still all in fun. for the jerks who go too far, there's the "ignore" function. for everyone else, i read this board mostly with a bemused detachment from what's being posted/argued. when i logout, i don't give the board a second thought. just like when i turn off the TV, i don't think twice about what's being broadcast.

footstepsfrom#27
09-12-2010, 07:20 PM
but my original point stands and was PROVEN yet again tonight.
Actually dude, your original point went down in the flames of irony. Live to fight another day...

Gort
09-12-2010, 07:21 PM
Sorry for you, I see what's put on the field. All the problems Shanny had are still haunting this team. And 1977 was a long time ago, you would think you would have learned a thing or two. I know I figured out how to see crap football when I see it. You aren't the oldest fan on the board.

good then act your age and stop resorted to the tired old cliche of calling people you disagree with "fanboys". argue the merits of an opinion or shut your piehole.

w.r.t. the 2010 Broncos having problems. i agree. i really do. but i liked one thing i saw today that contrasted with what i saw from Shanny his last few years. that's why i posted. capice?

Gort
09-12-2010, 07:24 PM
Actually dude, your original point went down in the flames of irony. Live to fight another day...

explain. because the facts are not on your side... this should be amusing.

here's the last Redskins drive before the half. not exactly the same scenario as McD had today in Jacksonville, but then again, no 2 situations are ever the exact same.

1:42 on the clock. starting at their own 5.

1st and 10 at WSH 5 D.McNabb pass deep middle to C.Cooley to WAS 25 for 20 yards (A.Ball).
Timeout #1 by WAS at 01:35.
1st and 10 at WSH 25 (Shotgun) D.McNabb pass short left to S.Moss to WAS 27 for 2 yards (D.Ware).
2nd and 8 at WSH 27 (No Huddle, Shotgun) D.McNabb pass incomplete short middle to C.Portis. PENALTY on DAL-J.Ratliff, Defensive Pass Interference, 1 yard, enforced at WAS 27 - No Play.
1st and 10 at WSH 28 D.McNabb pass incomplete short right to A.Armstrong. PENALTY on WAS-C.Rabach, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at WAS 28 - No Play.
1st and 20 at WSH 18 (Shotgun) D.McNabb pass incomplete short left to C.Portis.
2nd and 20 at WSH 18 C.Portis left end to WAS 19 for 1 yard (M.Jenkins, K.Brooking).
Timeout #2 by DAL at 00:45.
3rd and 19 at WSH 19 (Shotgun) D.McNabb pass short middle to C.Portis to WAS 20 for 1 yard (J.Hatcher).
Timeout #3 by DAL at 00:40.
4th and 18 at WSH 20 J.Bidwell punts 50 yards to DAL 30, Center-N.Sundberg, downed by WAS-A.Armstrong.

except for the first play to get them out of the shadow of the goalposts, it was all short passes. designed to eat up the clock and get to halftime with the score intact.

bpc
09-12-2010, 07:29 PM
Wait, why are we comparing these two again?

Everybody just needs to move on from this topic. We need to hope that McDaniels can win a championship. Ever. Shanahan has already gotten his, and it's a good bet that he'll probably get another. He's a proven winner as a head coach in the NFL.

footstepsfrom#27
09-12-2010, 07:30 PM
Save your breath. Pushing the idea that McD is superior to Shanny's as a strattegist may or not be true, and we won't know for a long time if it is or not, but busting him for not pushing the envelope right before the half...and then watching the team he's coaching against do so and have it backfire right in their faces...that's pretty ironic, and the timing of your point and the ironic twist pretty much shot you in the foot righ there.

Sometimes actually doing nothing might be the best strategy.

lostknight
09-12-2010, 08:41 PM
Sorry, the stupidity of this thread is devastating, but the reality is, if the being the laughingstock of the NFL for some less then professional behavior at times by players and coaches were not enough, Mike Shanahan is back.

What's that mean for the Broncos today? The failure of the current Broncos to live up to their expectations no longer has anything to do with either Mike Shanahan's successes - two SB rings, the best running system in football for a decade and all of the players and systems he invested in - ZBS, Cutler, Scheffler, Marshall, Bobby Turner, etc are gone. It also has nothing to do with his failures - the devastating late season crashes, the constant pain in the defense and horrible talent evaluation.

McDaniels now deserves and must be judged independently of what Mike Shanahan did. I believe that us firing Mike lit a fire that had too long been dormant in Mike, and done the one thing that this organization systematically fails to accomplish - separate the role of GM and coach so Mike can do what he does best, and Josh do what he does best, and not let either of them **** up the long term direction of the franchise.

This is Josh's team. He must win, and at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is that Mike's team has one more win, and is thus one game closer to the post season and the Superbowl then this team.

Hamrob
09-12-2010, 09:05 PM
I liked to see Shanahan win...but, he didn't call the plays tonight...his son did. He'll help game plan which is where he's really great...but his son calls the plays.

As for the comparision of Shanny to McD. Give me a break...we're talking about a guy who is a HOF candidate and comparing him to a kid who is in his 2nd season as a head coach.

Let's see what McD does this year and perhaps next before we start to call him great. Right now he's 8-9 with zero playoff appearences.

bpc
09-12-2010, 09:11 PM
Sorry, the stupidity of this thread is devastating, but the reality is, if the being the laughingstock of the NFL for some less then professional behavior at times by players and coaches were not enough, Mike Shanahan is back.

What's that mean for the Broncos today? The failure of the current Broncos to live up to their expectations no longer has anything to do with either Mike Shanahan's successes - two SB rings, the best running system in football for a decade and all of the players and systems he invested in - ZBS, Cutler, Scheffler, Marshall, Bobby Turner, etc are gone. It also has nothing to do with his failures - the devastating late season crashes, the constant pain in the defense and horrible talent evaluation.

McDaniels now deserves and must be judged independently of what Mike Shanahan did. I believe that us firing Mike lit a fire that had too long been dormant in Mike, and done the one thing that this organization systematically fails to accomplish - separate the role of GM and coach so Mike can do what he does best, and Josh do what he does best, and not let either of them **** up the long term direction of the franchise.

This is Josh's team. He must win, and at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is that Mike's team has one more win, and is thus one game closer to the post season and the Superbowl then this team.

Pretty spot on until you said Mike had a fire which was dormant. This would be torn down by just about everybody, even Pat Bowlen. Ask Jake Plummer how dormant his fire was.

Besides that, very solid post.

TheChamp24
09-12-2010, 09:23 PM
just looking at Shanny's last year in 2008, i found 5 games where Shanny went ultra-cautious when getting the ball with under a minute in DEN territory just before the half. in all cases, the offense made only a halfhearted effort to gain yardage (i.e., runs or short passes). only when they got lucky with a big gain or a defensive penalty, did they then attempt to actually try and get a drive mounted.

against JAX

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=281012007&period=2

against NE

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=281020017&period=2

against ATL

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=281116001&period=2

against CAR

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=281214029&period=2

against BUF

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=281221007&period=2

Are these the cases you are saying that Shanahan went ultra cautious in?

I just looked at Jacksonville, Pats and Atlanta game and found nothing to support your claim.

TheReverend
09-12-2010, 09:25 PM
I liked to see Shanahan win...but, he didn't call the plays tonight...his son did. He'll help game plan which is where he's really great...but his son calls the plays.

As for the comparision of Shanny to McD. Give me a break...we're talking about a guy who is a HOF candidate and comparing him to a kid who is in his 2nd season as a head coach.

Let's see what McD does this year and perhaps next before we start to call him great. Right now he's 8-9 with zero playoff appearences.

He hasn't called plays for the better part of a decade, fyi.

Blueflame
09-12-2010, 09:40 PM
Are these the cases you are saying that Shanahan went ultra cautious in?

I just looked at Jacksonville, Pats and Atlanta game and found nothing to support your claim.

Seems to me it was a Mike Shanahan-coached team that... as the last seconds of the first half ticked off the clock... called for Jason Elam to come on the field and attempt (successfully) a 63-yard FG. Guess that's an example of ultra-conservative playcalling though. :P

Kaylore
09-12-2010, 09:48 PM
Redskins 1-0
Broncos 0-1

These types of threads are always bad mojo - especially before the game is even over.

Gort
09-12-2010, 10:04 PM
we have alot of people here who simply cannot read.

they come into this thread, think they know what the thread is about, and then post nonsense about how Shanny has won 2 SBs, will end up in the HOF, blah blah blah.

anyway, i don't have time to explain things to people who can't be bothered to actually read and understand what's been posted.

if you people think this was a thread saying that McD is great and Shanny is awful and death to Shanny and long live McD and all that other BS that has been on this site for more than a year now, then sorry about the misleading title. i thought the title made sense. but apparently not. whatever. i don't care.

to McFoneco1331:

go back and a re-read those summaries. what's important is the offensive mindset when the Broncos took possession of the ball with a minute and a half or less before the half, deep in their own territory. my contention, which can be proven by many more examples than just those 5 from 2008 is the following.

Shanny conceded possessions before the half when he was in this situation as a matter of course. whether he called the plays or not is irrelevant. it's his mindset to be risk averse and not turn the ball over and allow the other team some free and easy points. for people who like that strategy, then fine. i personally don't and always found it frustrating. especially if the other team was going to receive the 2nd half kickoff.

what Shanny would do was run a couple of plays to eat up the clock and get to halftime. sometimes, the Broncos got lucky and got a long gain or a defensive penalty. in those cases, Shanny would be opportunistic and then try to actually get some field position to try a FG. but usually, those couploe of plays (such as a run or a short screen pass) would only get a couple of yards and the clock would expire and we'd see the team head to halftime.

today, McD didn't do that in a very similar scenario. it resulted in 7 points for the Broncos. i liked that. something that i had been bothered about for years under Shanny is now a thing of the past.

sure, sometimes it doesn't work out. mistakes happen. like tonight when the Redskins tried to do essentially the same thing. they couldn't eat up the clock and ended up punting. Dallas got greedy and made a mistake and ended up paying for it by allowing a cheap score the other way.

to footsteps:

the mistake by Dallas doesn't cancel out the fact that the Redskins tried the same frustrating strategy tonight. you may like the idea of just "giving up" on a possession and trying to run out the clock to get to halftime. in some situations just before the 2nd half, it does make sense (e.g., 1st and 10 on your own 1 yard line with 0:01 on the clock). but often Shanny would not really try when there was maybe a minute or so of time left and that always bothered me. that's all i'm saying.

anyway, i've made my point. i'm glad to see McD views every possession as a chance to score. that is a difference from Shanny and it happens to be a pet peeve of mine from the Shanny days that's been bugging me for years.

TomServo
09-12-2010, 11:47 PM
good god man, shanny has won 146 NFL games campared to mcds 8. and mcd has won 2 of his last nine games. 146 to 8 and two lambardis, give it up man. the league is littered with ex patriot coaches. i thought shanny got stale too but comparing mcd to shanny this early?? thats crazy talk.

TomServo
09-12-2010, 11:50 PM
check that 2-11.

baja
09-13-2010, 12:37 AM
good god man, shanny has won 146 NFL games campared to mcds 8. and mcd has won 2 of his last nine games. 146 to 8 and two lambardis, give it up man. the league is littered with ex patriot coaches. i thought shanny got stale too but comparing mcd to shanny this early?? thats crazy talk.

fair enough

The problem wasn't shanny the coach it was his iron fisted GM decisions that were the problem.

Washington got a great coach

TomServo
09-13-2010, 12:50 AM
Washington got a great coach

looks like houston did too. during the rain delay did anyone else think that these are two entertaining football teams and think damn i wish that (houston)was our team?

baja
09-13-2010, 12:51 AM
looks like houston did too. during the rain delay did anyone else think that these are two entertaining football teams and think damn i wish that (houston)was our team?

Relax we will get there and sooner than many think.

Look how long it took kubes.

baja
09-13-2010, 12:52 AM
and shanny was not a great coach today just better than wade.

TomServo
09-13-2010, 12:53 AM
i was almost disapointed to have to go back and watch the low powered jags and broncos

baja
09-13-2010, 12:54 AM
we are a much better team than the one that beat Cinnci in the opener last year.

TomServo
09-13-2010, 01:03 AM
good for kubes and shanny, Mcd is such a hard person to back. if he wins it doesnt matter but he really should learn not to make a difficult job even harder. yelling at quinn on national tv? i dont think there is any film of even a hard a ss like vince lambardi doing that, the whole team yes "grab grab grab" but an individual player?

baja
09-13-2010, 01:05 AM
good for kubes and shanny, Mcd is such a hard person to back. if he wins it doesnt matter but he really should learn not to make a difficult job even harder. yelling at quinn on national tv? i dont think there is any film of even a hard a ss like vince lambardi doing that, the whole team yes "grab grab grab" but an individual player?

I was disappointed with that too but he's young and has shown a willingness to learn. Definitely counter productive though.

baja
09-13-2010, 01:08 AM
he was so mad a quinn he took himself out of the game for a couple of plays and you could see it did not help quinn either

footstepsfrom#27
09-13-2010, 01:42 AM
to footsteps:

the mistake by Dallas doesn't cancel out the fact that the Redskins tried the same frustrating strategy tonight.
Doesn't cancel out? Dude it most certainly does, at least in this instance...you're the one not reading for comprehension here. It should be obvious that the go for broke strategy like you're describing right before the end of halftime is exactly what cooked the Cowboys goose tonight. It was the key play of the game that lost it for Dallas. The fact that you're in favor of that approach is fine since it obviously also works at times, but failing to at least aknowledge the potential downside even when it's played out right in front of your eyes with the same guy you're criticizing as the beneficiary of someone elses mistake at almost the very moment you're making this point...that's just classic.

Irony...it's lost on you huh?

broncocalijohn
09-13-2010, 02:23 AM
Shanahan would have never made it that far into a half with three timeouts. Therefore he never was in that scenario.

good point. He probably has the record for most challenges and they seemed to never go our way. If you put Martz and Shanny on the same team as coaches, you would have zero timouts before the 1st quarter ended.

crawdad
09-13-2010, 05:23 AM
Does mCd get -2 for going for it on 4th and 3 rather than kick a FG, hope to hold (which they did) then try to get the ball back for the winning drive?

Totally agree here. We should have kicked the field goal!

colonelbeef
09-13-2010, 05:29 AM
and shanny was not a great coach today just better than wade.

Shut the hell up.

The 4-12 Redskins just opened their 2010 season by beating down the super bowl favorite Cowboys, period. New QB, new system, new OL, new coaches, big fat victory.

Shanahan just pwned this entire thread.

fontaine
09-13-2010, 05:39 AM
Shut the hell up.

The 4-12 Redskins just opened their 2010 season by beating down the super bowl favorite Cowboys, period. New QB, new system, new OL, new coaches, big fat victory.

Shanahan just pwned this entire thread.

Ha!

strafen
09-13-2010, 05:58 AM
good for kubes and shanny, Mcd is such a hard person to back. if he wins it doesnt matter but he really should learn not to make a difficult job even harder. yelling at quinn on national tv? i dont think there is any film of even a hard a ss like vince lambardi doing that, the whole team yes "grab grab grab" but an individual player?

The guy has a smart mouth.
You could read his lips on national TV.
He's making an ass out of himself for sure.

jhns
09-13-2010, 06:12 AM
Shut the hell up.

The 4-12 Redskins just opened their 2010 season by beating down the super bowl favorite Cowboys, period. New QB, new system, new OL, new coaches, big fat victory.

Shanahan just pwned this entire thread.

Great post.

I will never understand why Bronco fans would want to hate on Shanahan so much. You can't do more for a franchise than Shanahan did for this one. It is sad to see.

go_broncos
09-13-2010, 07:46 AM
this is an excellent example of why McD brings better strategic mind to the game than Shanny.

with 50 seconds in the half, McD has his offense try for a score and succeeds. under Shanny, we'd have had a run up the middle for 3 yards and then the QB kneeling on the next down, with Shanny content to go into halftime trailing 7-0 and with the Jags getting the ball to start the 2nd half.

i've always argued that EVERY possession must be an attempt to score. you get so few per game, you have to try to score each time you have the ball. especially when you have a chance just before halftime when the other team is due to get the ball to start the 2nd half.

instead of the Jags leading 7-0 and having momentum, McD has stolen their thunder and sent his team to the lock room 7-7.

+1 McD.

Ha!

Shanny 1 - Mcd 0

bronco militia
09-13-2010, 07:47 AM
wow! thread fail!

uk bronco
09-13-2010, 08:02 AM
i've always argued that EVERY possession must be an attempt to score. you get so few per game, you have to try to score each time you have the ball. especially when you have a chance just before halftime when the other team is due to get the ball to start the 2nd half.


+1 McD.

have you watched the cowboys game?

Merlin
09-13-2010, 08:25 AM
Doesn't cancel out? Dude it most certainly does, at least in this instance...you're the one not reading for comprehension here. It should be obvious that the go for broke strategy like you're describing right before the end of halftime is exactly what cooked the Cowboys goose tonight. It was the key play of the game that lost it for Dallas.
The importance is knowing when and how to go for broke. The FG Shanny called for in the offenses last play last night was incredibly risky, but he knew that a tie would be easy unless he had a 6 point lead. He had faith in his STs and defense and they paid him back for that respect. He has always been a river boat gambler, but a very calculated one.

rbackfactory80
09-13-2010, 08:43 AM
Way to link a bunch of games that fail to prove your point.

The Jags game we tried a couple passes and then got a penalty call so with 27 seconds left we ran it up the middle.

The Patriots game had Ramsey at QB. He was sacked and lost possession by NE trying to move the ball into scoring territory.

In Atlanta Cutler was sacked bringing up a fourth and nine. He was dropping back to pass not handing the ball off. Not a sign of giving up a possession to me.

In Carolina Selvin Young fumbled and besides that we hadn't even got passed the 20. We were at the 18 with 30 seconds left. In that position no coaches "go for it".

With 15 seconds left we took a kneel against Buffalo, at the 21 yard line I might add.

So I guess if you are picking games out of a hat that make no sense you did a fine job.

driver
09-13-2010, 08:47 AM
McD=1 Shanny=0 ?? Only if you're counting losses..

Spider
09-13-2010, 09:50 AM
just looking at Shanny's last year in 2008, i found 5 games where Shanny went ultra-cautious when getting the ball with under a minute in DEN territory just before the half. in all cases, the offense made only a halfhearted effort to gain yardage (i.e., runs or short passes). only when they got lucky with a big gain or a defensive penalty, did they then attempt to actually try and get a drive mounted.

against JAX

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=281012007&period=2

against NE

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=281020017&period=2

against ATL

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=281116001&period=2

against CAR

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=281214029&period=2

against BUF

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=281221007&period=2 your taking some heat over this ........ Rightfully so , you cant compare what shanny would have done with this personnel on the field ..Take Plummer for example , he was a gun slinger , took chances , so it was up to Shanny to keep him under control the best he could ......... orton isnt that type of QB , so it is hard to say what Shanny would have done

Taco John
09-13-2010, 09:53 AM
This thread doesn't qualify as one of the all time worst thread ideas. You'll have to try again.

bronco militia
09-13-2010, 09:55 AM
This thread doesn't qualify as one of the all time worst thread ideas. You'll have to try again.

he's almost there....

keep trying and keep up the good work!!

Ha!

Dagmar
09-13-2010, 09:56 AM
looks like houston did too. during the rain delay did anyone else think that these are two entertaining football teams and think damn i wish that (houston)was our team?

Right, fans like yourself would have been calling for his head after 8-8, 8-8, 9-7 seasons.

Spider
09-13-2010, 09:58 AM
and shanny was not a great coach today just better than wade.

;) no Shanny is a great coach , there is no mistaking that ........So much went on in that game last night , Dallas clearly has more talent at alot more positions then the Redskins ....... wont be long before Redskins are zone blocking and portis is racking up 2 k ...........

bendog
09-13-2010, 10:17 AM
Funniest thread today, next to the razor blade one that apparantly got the boot, which is funny cause this is the one the "censors" should "cut."

jhns
09-13-2010, 10:47 AM
I wonder what the score will be when Shanahan wins more games than McDaniels this season. I think Shanahan should get some bonus points for doing that with a top 5 pick team. McDaniels has had two years to build up a .500 team. That isn't even mentioning the fact that McDaniels has a much easier division and schedule.

baja
09-13-2010, 10:56 AM
Funniest thread today, next to the razor blade one that apparantly got the boot, which is funny cause this is the one the "censors" should "cut."

hello bendog long time no see

still mowing that 3/4 acre?

Crushaholic
09-13-2010, 11:09 AM
looks like houston did too. during the rain delay did anyone else think that these are two entertaining football teams and think damn i wish that (houston)was our team?

There was a family who had been coming in to my local sports bar to watch the games and cheer on the Broncos every year for the past 5 or 6 years. They always showed up in their Broncos gear every Sunday. They seemed VERY diehard and would always yell like they were at the stadium. Yesterday, that same family showed up in Texans gear and were actively rooting for Houston. I kid you not. For whatever reason, they had given up on the Broncos after a very long time. I wouldn't make this up, because I was sick to my stomach. If I could get away with punching them out, I probably would have done that. It was pathetic...thwack

baja
09-13-2010, 11:11 AM
There was a family who had been coming in to my local sports bar to watch the games and cheer on the Broncos every year for the past 5 or 6 years. They always showed up in their Broncos gear every Sunday. They seemed VERY diehard and would always yell like they were at the stadium. Yesterday, that same family showed up in Texans gear and were actively rooting for Houston. I kid you not. For whatever reason, they had given up on the Broncos after a very long time. I wouldn't make this up, because I was sick to my stomach.<b> If I could get away with punching them out, I probably would have done that. It was pathetic...thwack

Well that's going in my book...

broncosteven
09-13-2010, 11:12 AM
There was a family who had been coming in to my local sports bar to watch the games and cheer on the Broncos every year for the past 5 or 6 years. They always showed up in their Broncos gear every Sunday. They seemed VERY diehard and would always yell like they were at the stadium. Yesterday, that same family showed up in Texans gear and were actively rooting for Houston. I kid you not. For whatever reason, they had given up on the Broncos after a very long time. I wouldn't make this up, because I was sick to my stomach. If I could get away with punching them out, I probably would have done that. It was pathetic...thwack

Sadly Houston has much more potential this year than we do. Maybe 2012 or 2013 we will be dominate and able to win on the east coast in an early game.

Steve Sewell
09-13-2010, 11:13 AM
Shut the hell up.

The 4-12 Redskins just opened their 2010 season by beating down the super bowl favorite Cowboys, period. New QB, new system, new OL, new coaches, big fat victory.

Shanahan just pwned this entire thread.

Congrats to Jim Haslett, actually.

jhns
09-13-2010, 11:24 AM
Congrats to Jim Haslett, actually.

So we should just thank Nolan for the first 6 games of last season?

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
09-13-2010, 02:39 PM
how about we just move on shanny isnt the coach of the denver broncos mcdaniels is so far he has a losing record but people should wait and see what McDaniels can do if i recall shanny wasnt uber perfect either now was he , especially in the A.E years

LetsGoBroncos
09-13-2010, 02:48 PM
Shut the hell up.

The 4-12 Redskins just opened their 2010 season by beating down the super bowl favorite Cowboys, period. New QB, new system, new OL, new coaches, big fat victory.

Shanahan just pwned this entire thread.

Really? Wow. Don't get me wrong I love Shanahan but give me a break. Dallas gave that game away. If they simply take a knee before halftime they win the game and we are all talking about the Mastermind's offense scoring 6 points in his debut. Yes, way to go Shanahan for that awesome call on the last play of the first half

OrangenBlueOhio
09-13-2010, 03:45 PM
Ha!

Shanny 1 - Mcd 0

Shanny-1-0
Cutler-1-0
Marshall-1-0

Mcd-0-1:stirstir:

Nope don't miss those guys at all.

LetsGoBroncos
09-13-2010, 03:49 PM
I don't understand how most fans don't see the long term picture and focus on that. I think in a year or two our WR's are going to be awesome (Thomas, Decker, Royal), our O-line will be one of the best in the league assuming Walton and Beadles turn out to be good. We could use another RB, but other than that our offense is set. On D we need some youth on the line and another good LB wouldn't hurt, but our secondary is in decent shape as well with Cox, Squid, and McBath. We are a couple pieces from being solid on paper, then we will see what McDaniels is made of. Got to give him time

bendog
09-13-2010, 04:09 PM
Moreno (josh freeman on the board), Quinn (peria and matthews on board), Alphonso Smith (puke), McBath (we'll see), Richard Quinn (laughter)

2010
anthony davis (woops traded that one away), brandon graham (woops traded that one away), d. thomas (bad foot and dez bryant on board, but we'll see), Tebow (Jesus's fav, but he's project who could be a. smith or good), and I actually thought the rest of the draft was ok.

the offense is set? the front 7 is getting better?

whatever. thread's good for laughs.

bpc
09-13-2010, 06:36 PM
Great post.

I will never understand why Bronco fans would want to hate on Shanahan so much. You can't do more for a franchise than Shanahan did for this one. It is sad to see.

Because it's easier than saying they were wrong the last 16 months. They've entrenched themselves so far in the "I hate Shanny" camp that they're just going to ride out this possible failure even though Shanny had the biggest win either the Redskins or Broncos have seen in over two years, and he did it in his first game as the Redskins HC.

Malcontent
09-13-2010, 06:45 PM
Burn this thread.

Wes Mantooth
09-13-2010, 06:57 PM
Burn this thread.

I say don't burn this thread. Great reminder for the whole season how "smart" people are.