How about them Avs .........

[Spider]

Man they are on fire ....... :thumbsup:

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Man they are on fire ....... :thumbsup:

Kicking Ass 3-0 LOL

[Swedish Extrovert]

3-0 tonight.

I swear, Forsberg doesent et enough credit.

How long has it been since the Av's lost a point? They lost to Nashville, but it wazs in overtime, so we still got one point (rathere than two) but when was the last time we actually lost a game?

[Swedish Extrovert]

Doh 3-1

[Tredici]

The powers of the internet. I can't believe all those Dallas dogs will be representing at the All Star Game. That's just stupid...

I sure like the way Aebi looks. It would've been funny if he scored on that goal attempt game before this one. The Avs keep skating like this and its a sure bet he'll get a few more trys at an empty net at the other end.

[Rock Chalk]

AVS SUCK!

:quickly runs and hides, especially from Tredici:

[Tredici]

Best stick with hockey sucks, bad boy.

The Avs most definitely haven't been sucking of late.

You might of even enjoyed seeing Peter the Great pick Zubov clean (who is a top defensemen in the league) and go in unassisted to park one in Turco's net. It was a thing of beauty. GOOOAAAALLLLL!

Or maybe when Turco was looking for Pete's wrap around try and instead he bounced the puck off the skate of a Dallas player standing in the crease. GOOOAAAALLLLLL!

There was one really stupid fight though. Some little bit tried to take on 6'7" Worrell. He just kind of held him out with one hand and pounded him with the other.....

[Rock Chalk]

"Hockey is not a sport. It is three activities going on at once. Ice skating. Playing with a puck. And fighting." ~George Carlin

[Rock Chalk]

"What is a puck anyway? Isn't a puck that little thing in the urinal's in men's restrooms?" ~George Carlin

[Clockwork Orange]

No one in the league is on Forsberg's level right now......and no one has been since he returned for the '02 playoffs. Simply put, he's the best player in the world, everyone else is just competing for 2nd place.

Since he returned from the groin injury the Avs are 9-1-0-1 and he's got 17 points in those 11 games.

It was nice to see him dominate the Dallas Stars tonight, a team that boasts three All-Stars and should be boasting none. Not to worry though, they'll have plenty of company from Colorado when the reserves are named next week (Forsberg, Tanguay, Sakic & Aebischer all have excellent shots at being named to the team).

Time to keep it rolling on Saturday against the Sharks, I'll be at the game. Don't let me down boys.:)

[Mtbrncofn]

Also since Kariya has been back, they seemed to have picked up a pretty big head of steam. I agree Tredici.....Dallas and their 2 starters at the ASG...Modano hasn't done a whole heck of a lot this year. I'm sure just like any other ASG, voters that don't know much just pick a name they have heard. And a huge bonus....the Canucks lost to the Sharks tonite!!

[jonny1]

Well, I don't know about the All Star voting, but the commentators last night said, "Peter Forsberg is the best hockey player on the planet. If you asked anyone in hockey who they would pick #1 to start a franchise, they all would pick Forsberg."

[bpc]

I must admit that the offseason so far has been better this year because of the Nuggets and Avs... usually I'm still in a post playoff depression but Melo' and iceBERG have kept my sports heart going lately. Its been nice.

[Mtbrncofn]

Well, I don't know about the All Star voting, but the commentators last night said, "Peter Forsberg is the best hockey player on the planet. If you asked anyone in hockey who they would pick #1 to start a franchise, they all would pick Forsberg."


And that's as it should be! :yep:

[Rock Chalk]

Let me ask a question.

Is there a salary cap in Hockey?

If not, do you fans feel comfortable with having all the greatest players on the Avs while other teams are wallowing in misery?

Sounds a whole lot like the yankees to me.

[Mtbrncofn]

Ouch!! That was a low blow, Alec! While I like to think we have all the greatest players, others certainly don't. No, there is no cap in hockey. The New York Rangers have an exhorbitant payroll, something like 77 mil, ( and they still cant win ), while there are others like the Wild who are down in the 30's I think? The Avs are one of the higher salaried, but not like some of the others.

And to answer your question, of course I like to have all the talent we have and see others wallow in misery. =) Although, just like football.....any given day, the best teams can and do lose to the worst teams.

[Rock Chalk]

Well, i just mentioned because I know Forsberg and Sakic are considered among the best in the sport and both play for the Avs and it just sounded to me like a bought team....like the Yankees. I certainly didnt mean it as a low blow.

Most just hate the yankees for doing the same thing. They do not have the highest payroll either and they dont ALWAYS win, but...well you can see where I drew the parallels is all.

[Mtbrncofn]

I do see your parallels, and wasn't offended by it at all. There are other big names that make the big $$ too that don't play for us. Cujo, Jagr, Asslick ( Hasek ), Modano, Hatcher....etc. In hockey, the Rangers are hated for it....but funny thing is they haven't even made the playoffs in years.

[Tredici]

Well, i just mentioned because I know Forsberg and Sakic are considered among the best in the sport and both play for the Avs and it just sounded to me like a bought team....like the Yankees. I certainly didnt mean it as a low blow.

Most just hate the yankees for doing the same thing. They do not have the highest payroll either and they dont ALWAYS win, but...well you can see where I drew the parallels is all.

Both are with the only club they've ever skated for. You know... like Elway. Neither were "bought". The Rangers did sign Sakic to a nice price when he was a free agent but The Avs matched it.

They've traded extremely good players to get good players. Deadmarsh and Miller for Blake. Drury for Morris.

Kariya offered to take a 8 Million Dollar pay CUT to play for them.

I don't think the Yankee comparison is valid. But it is for the New York Rangers who keep scooping up players at very high dollar value. Unfortunately, even though everyone says you can "buy" a championship, I think having the skills is just one of the necessary ingredients.

[Spider]

I amit I dont know much about hockey , realy never watched a game untill the Avs came to town .........
I see Hockey as being good ........ It will never replace my #1 sport Football , but Hockey is a solid sport ..........

[Hercules Rockefeller]

[QUOTE=Tredici]

Kariya offered to take a 8 Million Dollar pay CUT to play for them.
[QUOTE]

That was more that he wanted to play again w/ Teemu. He'd have done that for any other team who was willing to do the same thing the Avs did and sign them both.

[Meck77]

Wow "Peter the Great" is at the top of his game right now. Look out folks. Here comes an AVALANCHE!!!!!

[Rock Chalk]

That's why I asked Tredici. Just trying to inform myself ;)

[Swedish Extrovert]

Again, forsberg doesent get enough credit. I think he is the best hockey player in the world. too bad this is his last year playin hockey in America.

I wonder if thee is a way to get televised hockey games from Sweden? I'd pay for that just to be able to see Forsberg play.

Anyway, Abby is playing better than I initially expected, and now with our fron six healthy, I don't think anyone can stop us.

Salanne has ben a dissapointment. But Karia has been playing well.

[Clockwork Orange]

Just to address the Yankee comparison, it's not nearly the same situation. The Yankees are notorious for throwing ridiculous amounts money at anyone and everyone they want, the Avalanche have had a much different approach.

Here's a look at the Avs top players and how they wound up in an Avalanche uniform.

Joe Sakic: Drafted in the 1st round.

Peter Forsberg: Acquired along with Mike Ricci, Chris Simon, Steve Duchesne, Kerry Huffman & Ron Hextall, 2 1st round draft picks and $15 million in cash for the rights to Eric Lindros. Lindros refused to play for the then Nordiques, so this was a move they had no choice but to make.......and a move the Flyers regret to this very day.

Rob Blake: Acquired along with Steve Reinprecht for Adam Deadmarsh, Aaron Miller, Jared Aulin and 2 1st round picks (one of the picks was conditional on Blake re-signing with the Avalanche, which he obviously did).......the Avs gave quality to get quality.

Adam Foote: Drafted in the 1st round.

Milan Hejduk: Drafted in the 4th round. (an absolute steal)

Alex Tanguay: Drafted in the 1st round.

Derek Morris: Acquired along with Jeff Shantz & Dean McAmmond for Chris Drury & Stephane Yelle.

Kariya & Selanne: Signed as free agents for a combined $7 million.....these two came as a package deal obviously. Colorado was their first choice, but Pierre Lacroix told them that he couldn't give them market value and that signing here probably wouldn't happen. These two were willing to do what it took within the Avs budget to get a deal done and the rest is history. The money these two are making is the salary slot vacated by Patrick Roy when he retired.

Andrei Nikolishin: Acquired from Chicago for future considerations.

Karlis Skrastins: Acquired from Nashville for future considerations.

Steve Konowalchuk: Acquired along with a 3rd round pick for Bates Battaglia and Jonas Johansson.

Martin Skoula: Drafted in the 1st round.

The Avalanche have made one dip into the free agent pool since they've been in Colorado (Kariya & Selanne) and that was at bargain basement prices. So while teams like the Rangers have gone out and thrown ridiculous money at undeserving players, the Avalanche have used their resources to keep their core of stars in tact. These guys make a lot of money, but what they make looks like a bargain if you compared it to what they would get on the open market.

Good drafting, solid trades and the willingness to spend the money to keep the guys they needed to keep have been the trademark of the Avalanche front office.

It's served them well. 2 Stanley Cups, 2 President's Trophies, 2 Western Conference titles & 9 division titles.

This year the Avalanche aren't even in the top 5 in the NHL in payroll. NY Rangers, Detroit, Philadelphia, Toronto & Dallas all have higher payrolls than the Avalanche.

It's not what you spend, it's how you spend it.:)

[Swedish Extrovert]

hmmm.... good management - not the yankees. I just dont understand how the yankees are allowed to do this, there should be some kind of salary cap in baseball.

[Evenrude]

The Yankees payroll is way higher than any other team in baseball though...

1. NY Yankees 156,948,495
2. Los Angeles 115,764,287
3. Boston 100,651,177
4. Atlanta 99,195,593
5. San Francisco 89,052,167

They not only outbid other teams for players but sometimes make moves just to screw their closest competition (can you tell I'm a Red Sox fan). There is really no comparision between the Av's and Yankee's (my brother, who is a Rangers fan, and I go around and around on this all the time).

[alkemical]

there needs to be a cap in hockey

and yes forsberg is the best all around player -

I personally like watching tkatchuck or bertuzzi or doan though

and it just makes me sad to remember mario in his prime - if he could have been healthy, he could have threatened gretz's records

[Rock Chalk]

Ha!

It's funny. I asked the question because I didn't know and everyone and their momma comes out in defense of the Avs as if I were slamming the team when all I really wanted was info.

Yankees suck but so do the Red Sox and they deserve their misery and continued crapulence.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

and it just makes me sad to remember mario in his prime - if he could have been healthy, he could have threatened gretz's records

I have no respect for either of them, no matter how great they were on the ice. Mario for his whining about all the clutching and grabbing (valid complaint), but to suggest the league go to a permanent 4-on-4 was babyish. Gretzky for his little temper tantrum to the media at Salt Lake in 2002 crying about how everyone wanted Canada to lose and he didn't understand why.

[alkemical]

the flyers don't regret for lindros - when lindros was healthy he was dominant - but bobby clarke screwed him over - just as he screws everyone over -

I have no respect for either of them, no matter how great they were on the ice. Mario for his whining about all the clutching and grabbing (valid complaint), but to suggest the league go to a permanent 4-on-4 was babyish. Gretzky for his little temper tantrum to the media at Salt Lake in 2002 crying about how everyone wanted Canada to lose and he didn't understand why.


Hmm, i can understand about you stating about mario and his whining - but there's different levels - afterall he's no jagr -

[Rock Chalk]

Gretzky is an idiot for asking why no one wanted the Canadians to win. The Olympics were in Salt Lake and last time I checked that is in America even if it is run by morons...er mormons. Of course everyone wanted the Candians to lose.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Hmm, i can understand about you stating about mario and his whining - but there's different levels - afterall he's no jagr -

Yeah Jagr just keeps his mouth shut and lets it affect his on ice play.

[alkemical]

Yeah Jagr just keeps his mouth shut and lets it affect his on ice play.


ok then :kiddingme

you must not have really had to listen to his bitching and moanin' - he was mad when mario came back because mario was the star and jagr wasn't - not to mention faking his 'shoulder' injury into the playoffs only to decide to play to try to be the hero -

it's one of the major reasons he was traded....

[Hercules Rockefeller]

He's been moody in DC, hasn't really bitched to the press but his play is off an on. Mostly off.

[alkemical]

he's a puss

[Rock Chalk]

That's why I dont like hockey. Names in hockey are phoenetic nightmares.

[alkemical]

they are easy alec, it's just learning what letters are silent :)

[Hercules Rockefeller]

he's a puss

He's still amazing to watch w/ the puck when he feels like playing though.

[alkemical]

Then how can you biatch about mario - when he's healthy (which is different than only playing when you want) he can still put up i'm saying 85-100pts - just all that chemo and his back/hip gave out on him -

Mario is to Pitt what elway is to denver really

[Tredici]

[QUOTE=Tredici]

Kariya offered to take a 8 Million Dollar pay CUT to play for them.
[QUOTE]

That was more that he wanted to play again w/ Teemu. He'd have done that for any other team who was willing to do the same thing the Avs did and sign them both.

I know he wanted to play with Selanne. But THEY called the Avs. The Avs didn't call them.

Thanks Clockwork, I was too lazy to go into the details. The best thing that ever happened was ole Glasshead deciding he couldn't play for a Canadian team.

One of my favorite hockey pics... Eric's last Flyer team picture.

[Mtbrncofn]

Bwahahaahaaaa!! Great pic, Tredici!

Well they lost tonite....damn shame. Toskala was awesome, I have to say. I am a bit concerned about the reaggravated groin injury that kept Forsberg out tonite. I hope its nothing. Also, never heard what happened to make Tanguay leave the ice in the 2nd, and then come back in the later in the 3rd. Anybody else?

[Tredici]

First Nabokov now Toskala.

Even the website lists Tanguay's booboo as "undisclosed injury". Hockey players are very secretive about their booboos. Probably because they have to get on the ice with a bunch of boys with sticks...

[Mtbrncofn]

It always cracks me up when I hear about the big fibs they tell about their injuries. I remember a couple of years ago in the playoffs, they had listed Forsberg as having some kind of foot injury or knee or something. After the playoffs were over, it came out that he had played with a broken pinkie the whole post season.

[Tredici]

Hey Alec did you remember to tune in ESPN2?

Winning a game by penalty shot in OT is about good as it gets... tough physical game, lots of goals scored. Hope you didn't miss it...

[Rock Chalk]

LOL, sorry Tredici, I missed it. When was this? Tonight? I was playing Ghost Recon. Trying to get passed level 15 on elite using only one sniper is super hard.

[Tredici]

sigh

It would've been worth tuning this one in. Even without Peter the Great. That's two penalty shots Milan has aced in a week. Guys better stop dragging him down.

[Rock Chalk]

I'll tell you what Tredici. When I get back to Houston I will make it a point to come over and watch a hockey game with you and your family and you can explain to me all the finer details of the game and what makes it so great :)

[Tredici]

Sounds like a plan.

[Swedish Extrovert]

Great game today.

How bout that penalty shot in OT?

[bpc]

Hey Tredici, whats up with Forsberg groin anyways? He finally comes back for a brief appearance and then hes out again. The bottomline is I want him healthy for the playoffs but man... his health is going down more and more every year. I'm worried about him missing some time in the playoffs. There is no doubt about his impact on the ice, but he has to be there to make that impact.

For as many injuries as Colorado has had, to be tied for first place with a great team like the Cannucks and still having two games to play on them is amazing. How tough is the Northwest Division this year? Calgary looks pretty good too. Plus, I hope Minny limps into the playoffs to we can issue a little payback on them. THey are very well coached again this year. Tough division, should be interesting to see if Colorado can keep the streak of division titles rolling.

Actually now looking at the stats, this looked like a game Colorado should have lost kinda like the Chicago game about a week back but our goals were timely and we came back to win. This is big on the east coast road swing the Avs are on. What a pickup Konwalchuck has been. He was in on 3 or 4 assists today that were huge.

Cannucks are down to the Stars 2-1 in the first... lets hope it stays that way.

[Clockwork Orange]

For only the 3rd time in NHL history, an OT game ended by a penalty shot. Other than maybe Joe Sakic, there isn't anyone else on the team I'd rather see line up for that shot than Milan Hejduk. So slick, great hands, goaltenders have no chance one on one against him......as Nikolai Khabibulin found out tonight.

It's looking as though this is only a minor tweak of the groin injury Forsberg suffered earlier this season, as he's with the team on the current 4 game road trip and hopefully will be ready to play on Wednesday against the Panthers.

It's nice to see his linemates able to still produce in his absence. Hejduk had 4 points (2 goals, 2 assists) & Tanguay had 3 (1 goal, 2 assists) tonight against Tampa Bay. Alex Tanguay is now in the top 5 in the NHL in scoring (53 points), leads the league in assists (39) and is in the top 10 in the league in +/- (+19). If he's not selected to his first All-Star game when the reserves are named on Thursday, it'll be a travesty.

[Mtbrncofn]

Great game, and what a thrilling way to see it end!! And yeehaw, the Stars beat the Canucks...better yet, the Wings lost tonite too!! The Sharks are gettin kinda scary.

On a different note, poor Joe. I feel for the guy but he has been doing awesome. I keep hearing he can't eat solids yet because of his jaw, and its hard for him to keep his energy up. Just goes to show what a warrior he is!

[Rock Chalk]

Go Avs!

Bah, I dont care but hey, my friends on here cheer them on so what the hell.

[Mtbrncofn]

I knew you were cool, Alec ;)!

[Rock Chalk]

Im not cool. If I were cool I could probably get laid. If I were cool I would have friends outside of my internet message board.

As it is, Im just some dork with too much time on his hands and nothing better to do than come up with silly little comments to make other people love or hate me.

[Pezman]

The duke was a stud tonight! The AVS are starting to tear it up! They are only a couple of wins away from catching the Wingnuts for 1st seed!

God, is it May yet?

[Mtbrncofn]

Im not cool. If I were cool I could probably get laid. If I were cool I would have friends outside of my internet message board.

As it is, Im just some dork with too much time on his hands and nothing better to do than come up with silly little comments to make other people love or hate me.



Not good at compliments,eh?

[Rock Chalk]

Sure im good with compliments.

Im just too big a fan of being cool. Id rather be the geeky dude who creates crap software and earns billions for it though ;D

[Rock Chalk]

**********************************

Say Tredici, I caught that game last night on ESPN2 the re-run. A couple of questions. That was the most exciting type of game? The penalty shot in OT is a rare deal? Do they bother to play defense?

HayDuke's (I would pronounce that Hedge Duck if I were guessing) penalty shot was pretty impressive however I gotta tell you, the thrills were not there for me. I caught the game at a 3-3 tie in the middle of the 2nd right before the Lightning scored their 4th goal and watched it faithfully to the end. Other than one or two good checks against the board, I was pretty bored with it and almost fell asleep. had i not known that it was "exciting" at the end I probably would have just passed out.

The game seems very sloppy to me. The puck gets trapped by the boards and nine guys with sticks and feet are all fighting for it and it's like "come on already, let one of them clear it and get the game back on".

It's just too much like soccor. Not enough scoring and too much BS for me. I gave it a shot, it isn't for me. I'll stick with football and competetive farting ;D

[Tredici]

It depends whats going on when the puck is against the boards. If the other team has a power play going then tie it up for 2 minutes. Hahahahhahaha. But I agree. The refs let that kind of crap go too long they just yell at the players - work it out! Work it out!

You missed Sakic's short handed goal. That was fun.

But really, you have to see a game live. I hate the TV version because you just see players dumping the puck down the ice and you don't see what it going on. The strategy behind line changes. How the coaches work the benchs trying to get mismatches on the ice. (Hartley may have had his faults but he is a master of the bench). Plus a lot of the game happens away from the puck.

And you are right, there were times the young defensemen left Aebi out to dry on a couple of those goals. Liles has played well for a rookie but last night wasn't one of his better games.

[orange 4 life]

im upset.
i saw the game up to the 4-4 tie, and then had to deal with a very sick wife.

anyway, if someone wouldnt mind a brief rundown id really appreciate it.
thanks in advance!!

jake

[Rock Chalk]

4-4 tie Jake to OT.

Like 3 minutes into OT HayDuke gets open and all alone towards the net and gets tripped up, penalty shot.

Plays with the puck, going down the left middle and shoots a pretty impressive shot in the top right corner of the net. He does have puck handling skills, I will say that much. The way he moved that thing around was like it was almost attached to his stick.

[Tredici]

Hey Tredici, whats up with Forsberg groin anyways? He finally comes back for a brief appearance and then hes out again. The bottomline is I want him healthy for the playoffs but man... his health is going down more and more every year. I'm worried about him missing some time in the playoffs. There is no doubt about his impact on the ice, but he has to be there to make that impact.

For as many injuries as Colorado has had, to be tied for first place with a great team like the Cannucks and still having two games to play on them is amazing. How tough is the Northwest Division this year? Calgary looks pretty good too. Plus, I hope Minny limps into the playoffs to we can issue a little payback on them. THey are very well coached again this year. Tough division, should be interesting to see if Colorado can keep the streak of division titles rolling.

Actually now looking at the stats, this looked like a game Colorado should have lost kinda like the Chicago game about a week back but our goals were timely and we came back to win. This is big on the east coast road swing the Avs are on. What a pickup Konwalchuck has been. He was in on 3 or 4 assists today that were huge.

Cannucks are down to the Stars 2-1 in the first... lets hope it stays that way.

Well Chris, I'm not real positive about Peter's groin injury. I'd be happy to give it a close inspection. Just for information's sake.

:wiggle:

Kono was a good pickup. We really haven't had a presence in the crease since Deadmarsh left. The biggest change is Tanguay. Guy is really coming into his own. It's easy to forget the guy is only like 23 right now. I have a feeling if Liles keeps developing Skoula will finally become expendable. Hopefully they try and deal him after one of his rare reasonable nights. They better act quick, though, before the next skate...

[Clockwork Orange]

Liles isn't the one who's going to make Skoula expendable, a kid named Keith Ballard is. Ballard is the blue chip defense prospect the Avs got in return for Steve Reinprecht. Ballard is currently in his junior year at the University Of Minnesota and reportedly has all the tools to be a very good NHL defenseman.

When he's ready (possibly as early as next season), Skoula is finished in Colorado. Liles performance has been a very nice surprise though. I didn't think he'd be this good this quickly, but he's certainly turned plenty of heads.

Since Milan Hejduk was brought up, let me share this. Former NHL goaltender John Vanbiesbrouk once said about Hejduk, "He's got the best hands I've seen since Mario Lemieux." Now that's high praise, and Hejduk hasn't made a liar out of him. He could stickhandle in a phone booth and buries shots from angles other players wouldn't even think of shooting from.

It still pisses me off that he was snubbed for the All-Star team last year despite being 2nd in the NHL in goals at the time (he finished 1st, I guess living well is the best revenge). They've got a chance to atone for their mistake on Thursday.

[Tredici]

And Pierre just keeps doing what Pierre does...

I think I saw where the other two OT penalty shots in the history of that format were both taken by Elias. He didn't make either one. (incidently I think both were against the Islanders if I remember right.)

I'm not surprised Hejduk turned on the lamp. The shots I think are unreal are the ones he takes from either side when you swear there isn't even an angle to the net, let alone into it. A lot of folks say they can't figure out why the Avs would let "Mr. Clutch" go. I like Drury, but it was noted he was only clutch when the other big boys were on the ice. Milan still performs. Maybe he doesn't carry the team like Forsberg or Sakic can do, but when one or the other is missing (and when isn't one) he can still be a threat.

Man, I'm going to hate the lockout...

[Northman]

AVS SUCK!

:quickly runs and hides, especially from Tredici:


and your on crack. Nyah!

[orange 4 life]

And Pierre just keeps doing what Pierre does...

I think I saw where the other two OT penalty shots in the history of that format were both taken by Elias. He didn't make either one. (incidently I think both were against the Islanders if I remember right.)

I'm not surprised Hejduk turned on the lamp. The shots I think are unreal are the ones he takes from either side when you swear there isn't even an angle to the net, let alone into it. A lot of folks say they can't figure out why the Avs would let "Mr. Clutch" go. I like Drury, but it was noted he was only clutch when the other big boys were on the ice. Milan still performs. Maybe he doesn't carry the team like Forsberg or Sakic can do, but when one or the other is missing (and when isn't one) he can still be a threat.

Man, I'm going to hate the lockout...

speaking of the lockout, whats the real deal.

i admit the news of it was distressing and ive just buried my head and ignored the news.
anyway, everyone talks of it as an inevitability and its beginning to cause concern.

if anyone knows some details id appreciate it. like i said, at first i was content to enjoy this year and not worry about it, but now im curious as to what to expect.

jake

[alkemical]

salary cap is wanted by owners, the NHLPA basically wants it as is -

[Tredici]

On September 15th, the current Collective Bargaining Agreement between the NHL and its Players' Association will lapse.

Like the process in most sports it isn't anticipated there will be quick resolve with hugs all around. The owners have to find a way to save themselves from themselves. Over-expansion has hurt and there are several teams in severe financial distress. Last season a couple of clubs couldn't even make payroll.

Right now it is sort of anticipated there MIGHT be about a 41 game season. That's close to what happened in, 94-95. But no one knows. In anticipation most players of any influence just signed one year contracts because it was unknown what the effect of collective bargaining might have on long term deals.

So enjoy the Championship Game of the fledging World Cup of Hockey on September 14th. First attempt to bring North American and European hockey together in a playoff. Perfect timing....

[Evenrude]

Liles isn't the one who's going to make Skoula expendable, a kid named Keith Ballard is. Ballard is the blue chip defense prospect the Avs got in return for Steve Reinprecht. Ballard is currently in his junior year at the University Of Minnesota and reportedly has all the tools to be a very good NHL defenseman.


I saw him (Ballard) when he played for the Omaha Lancers. The guy is a stud. Nice little rivalry between the Lincoln Stars and Omaha Lancers in the USHL.

[Mtbrncofn]

Another win for the Avs, albeit a close one! Suave was deciding to let everything in the net tonite. But how bout Tanguay....hat trick! Don't know if anyone else is concerned about Forsberg's groin, but they said he tried to skate today, and got right back off the ice. That doesn't sound good. That puts in the points lead for the league as of right now. Woohoo!

[Swedish Extrovert]

I never liked Sauve

[Mtbrncofn]

This is his first year in the league, but geez......I see Pierre getting us a back up goalie. Not too many decent ones available right now....Burke and Kolzig are probably at the top of the list.....and that aint saying much.

[Clockwork Orange]

Sauve was a sieve tonight, that's two games in a row in which he was very unimpressive against a weak opponent (last time it was Chicago). Two straight starts for Sauve have seen him spot the opposition a 3-0 lead after one period. Thankfully the Avs were able to pull out wins in both of those games despite the shoddy netminding.

The more I think about it, the better Sean Burke would look in an Avalanche uniform. He obviously has no problem being the #2 guy (he's been doing it in Phoenix all year). He's a veteran, he's very steady and can be spectacular at times. He'd be a teriffic pickup around the trade deadline. Sauve may be pretty good for the future, but this is a team that is all about winning right now.

As for the rest of tonight's game, what can you say about Alex Tanguay? Forsberg misses 3 games, Tanguay responds with 7 points in those three contests. That's called stepping up, something the Avs desperately needed in the absence of their best player.

Hejduk lights it up again for his 24th, Rob Blake nabs a pair of assists and was a +4 for the game and Joe Sakic picked up 1 goal & 1 assist of his own. It's going to be very interesting to see who gets snubbed for the All-Star team when the reserves are announced tomorrow. It always seems that there's at least one deserving Avs player who gets left off because the league tries too hard to balance out the number of representatives from different teams. Aebischer, Tanguay, Hejduk & Sakic all deserve to be there, but I just don't see the GM's allowing 5 Avs (Blake was voted in as a starter) on the team. Yes, they did it once before, but that was when the All-Star game was here in Denver.

Should be interesting.

[Mtbrncofn]

I am dreading the reserves coming out.....I really hope Aebi makes the cut. He sure deserves it, as do Hejduk and Tanguay, but I really think big names appeal to fans who don't keep up much with the sport, and they decide they want to vote, and just pick a name they hear on Sportscenter a lot. It's a damn shame!

[orange 4 life]

what a game last night!!

unfortunately i didnt get in on fox sports (we get a mix of colorado and arizona here)
there's a few spots where i can get faint reception of am950, so i drove around in circles in the parking lot of our local supermarket (best reception area)
i probably looked like a nut, but who cares right!!

anyway, im excited about this season, and its fairly obvious that if this team can get and stay healthy they'd have to be the front runners for the cup.
the most encouraging thing to me is the ability to come from behind.
its to the point now that a 3 goal deficit feels like nothing.

as for the all stars, let the chips fall where they may, but we all know who deserves to be there.

jake

[Spider]

what a game last night!!

unfortunately i didnt get in on fox sports (we get a mix of colorado and arizona here)
there's a few spots where i can get faint reception of am950, so i drove around in circles in the parking lot of our local supermarket (best reception area)
i probably looked like a nut, but who cares right!!

anyway, im excited about this season, and its fairly obvious that if this team can get and stay healthy they'd have to be the front runners for the cup.
the most encouraging thing to me is the ability to come from behind.
its to the point now that a 3 goal deficit feels like nothing.

as for the all stars, let the chips fall where they may, but we all know who deserves to be there.

jake
That is dedication .. I cant get 950 here ....... I wish I could ........
But I do get 2 Fulltime Denver channels here . WB 2 and Rocky mountian Sports fox ........

[bronco militia]

no tv in colorado either.....same goes for tonights game against Atlanta... :cuss:

[alkemical]

I'd look for Hedberg - he took the pens almost to the finals - and he'd be cheap and have no problem being a #2

[Tredici]

That might be why the Cannucks have him...

[alkemical]

he should be cheaper to get than S. Burke or Kolzig - i'd go after manny legace too

I think the pens are going to send fluery down to the minors, but for the wrong reason, they want to do it for the money and not for the confidence of this guy - if they screw this up, that could put us in a hole for a long time.

[Mtbrncofn]

HOSED!!! Aebi got hosed in the ASG! Dammit that burns my ass. Roloson and Vokoun? Vokoun I can understand, Roloson...no. Aebi has more wins, better GAA, better SP. Those bastards in Minn cheated somehow so they could get their goalie in there. GRRRRRRRR!!! At least Tanguay made it though and Saks.

I am laughin at you orange 4 life....I used to do the very same things. We don't get much up here in MT. This year I broke down, got Center Ice....its awesome!

[Tredici]

The Wild cheated by hosting the All Star Game..

I feel worse for Milan Hejduk. He's the Simon Fletcher of Denver hockey.

[Rock Chalk]

HayDuke.

I love spelling that phoenitically.

[Tredici]

Sounds like you are calling John...

[Mtbrncofn]

[QUOTE=Tredici]The Wild cheated by hosting the All Star Game..

I feel worse for Milan Hejduk. He's the Simon Fletcher of Denver hockey.[/QUOTE/]

You're not kiddin. I was so mad that Aebi didn't make it that I didn't even realize that Hejduk AGAIN got the shaft. I KNOW the Wild cheated somehow....Kuba and Roloson over Hejduk and Aebi? A$$holes! :pfbbt:

[Clockwork Orange]

For the 2nd consecutive year Milan Hejduk gets hosed when it's time to select the All-Stars. Unbelievable.

The top 10 in scoring in the NHL are as follows. Robert Lang, Markus Naslund, Alex Tanguay, Ilya Kovalchuk, Marian Hossa, Joe Sakic, Pavel Datsyuk, Milan Hejduk, Keith Tkachuk and Shane Doan. Every single player in the top ten in scoring was named to the All-Star team with the exception of Milan Hejduk. That's two years in a row that the best sniper in the game has been inexplicably excluded from the All-Star team.

David Aebischer's omission is just as ridiculous. They left him off so that Dwayne Roloson (who just happens to play for Minnesota, the city that's hosting the All-Star game) could have a spot. Never mind the fact that he mostly splits time with Manny Fernandez and that his numbers are inflated by the fact that he plays behind one of the most godawfully boring trap teams in the NHL.

But the most ridiculous selection of all has to be Mark Messier. This dinosaur is about as deserving of an All-Star selection as I am. Never mind the fact that there are other players who've had teriffic seasons and deserve the honor of being named as an All-Star, no, let's put this schmuck on the squad because he was pretty good about a decade ago and is now hanging on at age 43 because the Rangers are dumb enough to still pay him $3 million a year for that whopping 25 points he has this season. Yes! Great idea!

This is an All-Star game, not an old-timers game. If you want to honor him, give him a gold watch or a friggin' silver plate with his name engraved on it. But don't waste a roster spot on this fossil just to prop him up on a pedastal one more time. If you want to give a spot to someone as a lifetime achievement award, give it to Ron Francis. One of the greatest and most underrated players of his generation, not to mention one of the classiest and well respected players this game has ever seen.

Anyway, congrats to Sakic & Tanguay on making the squad, at least they got that much right.

[Mtbrncofn]

Very well put as always, Clockwork. Your posts are always so informative. I was so pissed about Aebi and Hejduk not getting the nod, I didn't really care to look at the East. The only thing I did notice was that most of the reserves over there had a buddy, there was 2 from almost every team represented. Odd. The whole system is flawed.

Last year, Brian Leetch was selected to go and the guy had missed most of the season. What a load!

[Rock Chalk]

What about Forsberg?

You hockey nuts clamor on and on about him I was for sure this guy was the next coming of Gretzky.

[Mtbrncofn]

He is the best player around, but he was also injured for around 35 games this year. That's a big chunk of the season. He does have great stats for the games he has played, but in all fairness, ya gotta look at the guys who have played all year.

[Clockwork Orange]

Forsberg has been injured for more than half of the season. While he's been dominant when in the lineup (36 points in 22 games), he just hasn't played enough games to really warrant a roster spot.

[Rock Chalk]

Oh, he's not the next coming of Gretzky, he's a pussy Ha!

j/k ya'll, dont get yer panties in a ruffle.

[Clockwork Orange]

LOL

No need to get in a ruffle when we're discussing the reigning league MVP.;)

[Rock Chalk]

If Hockey is such a bad TV sport why dont they try to do something different with the camera like the "skycam" on Sunday Night Football? Seems like it would be fairly easy to implement and would give TV viewers a kick ass view of what is going on.

I mean, they are losing viewers and fans because the one game I watched that seemd about the only thing the announcers talked about was how this game is so great and the NHL was trying to make it better for TV viewers and all this other crap.

seems to me if you want to bring in more viewers and the game doesn't translate well with that gay ass camera angle, you change the camera angle and make it closer to the action and more accessible to the viewer right?

[Mtbrncofn]

I don't have a problem at all with watching on TV....but I have also never had the privilege of seeing one in person. I don't know what all the bitchin' is about?

[Rock Chalk]

Well you are a fan of hockey. Trust me, TV is not going to pull in very many new fans and with all the "corruptness" I keep hearing about its not going to keep all the fans either.

Im a strategy kind of guy and from what I am told when you are there you get to see all the strategy of the sport and apparently its pretty solid stuff. Id love to check that part of the game out cause watching formations and seeing how people react and move about and change in and out depending on situation is one of the things that interests me in football the most and if it is even somewhat similar in hockey but you cant see it because the stupid cameraman follows the puck all the time (which apparently isnt always where the best action is) then going to a game live or moving the camera angle above the rink would probably be better for the game itself.

[Clockwork Orange]

They actually did that a couple of years ago for the Stanley Cup Finals between the Avs/Devils. The angles they showed were outstanding and I thought it was the start of a nice new innovation in NHL viewing.

That was the one and only time I ever saw those camera angles used.

Don't ask me, I'm just a fan and they've made it pretty clear that they don't care what people of my ilk think.

The NHL is digging it's grave right now. Not only is the CBA expiring after this season, the television contract is as well. The president of ESPN has been quoted as saying "We won't overpay for the NHL contract, we don't need hockey." The other three major sports all have lucrative television deals, the NHL is going to get scraps and they've no one to blame but themselves.

The morons who run the league have their heads too far embedded in their rear ends to realize that the game is stagnating and being suffocated by the trapping, clutching and grabbing style that is allowed to go on unchecked. They refuse to try any solutions to open up the game for fear of upsetting the hockey purists, in the meantime they're putting the viewing audience to sleep....the ones who aren't changing the channel anyway.

There are plenty of things that could be done. They could eliminate the red line to open up the neutral zone and discourage teams from trapping and neutralizing the speed of the game. They could go back to touch up offsides which would encourage forechecking and keep the flow of the game going much better. They could go to shootouts to decide regular season OT games that end in a tie. I know that it seems hokey to some, but anyone who saw Milan Hejduk snap home that penalty shot the other night in OT to clinch a win saw how exciting it could be. They could actually market the superstars of the league to try and draw interest to the best the league has to offer (as every other sport seems to do).

But what the hell do I know? I'm just a fan.

[twotimes3233]

A couple of weeks ago (right after the Broncos season ended) the Av's were playing the Dallas Stars on a Saturday. There's a guy in my office who is a HUGE hockey fan and he and his wife and his 5 kids are ALL hockey fans.

He's a STARS fan, his wife is a AV's fan, his daughter is a RED WINGS fan, his other kid is a WILD fan and they all go at each other every Hockey season. Anyway, he's and I are always jawing at each other about the Stars and the AV's.

I called Time Warner here in Kansas City at 1:00 am on Saturday morning to order the NHL season package and they had a difficult time getting it set up for me because the season is almost halfway through.
It was too late for the introductory package and too early for the mid-season rate so they were trying to tell me they couldn't hook me up.

"Wait a minute" I said. "You have a customer on the phone right now trying to give you money and your telling me you can't help me?"

It took about 30 minutes but they got it together and to make amends they gave me a credit that's worth about 3/4 of what the mid-season rate would have cost me.

MO' Money!

And because they had no idea what they were doing they also inadvertently hooked me up with the NBA package so now I get all the Nuggie games as well as the NHL games.
Last night I got to see the Atlanta OT tie.

Call your cable operator late at night when they are staffed with people who may not be the sharpest knives in the set.

You too may get lucky!

[Tredici]

Colckwork - I'd rep every one of your hockey posts if allowed...

The deal on Messier is The Rangers are going to use the All Star Venue as a way to showcase him for The Redwings. He's almost become of age for their system...

[watermock]

Hockey doesn't translate well to TV, but it's a gas to see live.

[Mtbrncofn]

Colckwork - I'd rep every one of your hockey posts if allowed...

The deal on Messier is The Rangers are going to use the All Star Venue as a way to showcase him for The Redwings. He's almost become of age for their system...


Bwahahahahaaa!! You hit the nail on the head with that one! They are the Fade of the NHL, complete with moronic fans and all.

Hey twotimes......I signed up for my CI at the beginning of the season, and that very same thing happened to me. Not that I cared, because I can't stand basketball. But I did notice it only lasted a few weeks. I checked about 3 weeks later, and they figured out their mistake or something, it wasn't there anymore.

[Ugly man]

I have no problem at all with Hejduk, and Aebischer being left off the roster. Hejduk has better things to do right now, and there's no need to expose Abby to that nonsense at this point. The all star game is a shooting gallery...who knows...maybe he gets shelled and it effects him. Tommy Salo hasn't been the same since the olympics...when he let in a weak shot from the blueline...eliminating team Sweden. Obviously the pressures are different...but you can never tell about goalies...in general they're wired differently. A couple of days rest is good for the guys...especially with the stretch run right around the corner. Blake...Sakic...and Tanguay are fine representatives anyway, and will be fun to watch in the skills competition.

As far as the Avs picking up another Goalie...they're still being mentioned in rumors pertaining to Kolzig, Burke and Khabibulin. I personally think they'll try for someone a bit cheaper...Ron Tugnutt is available...and I've also heard they've inquired as to the availability of Garth Snow. It'll shake itself out as the playoff picture clears up, and nonplayoff teams start selling. In reality Abby is playing better than anyone they'd trade for...so there's no need to acquire a #1 goalie....Someone mentioned they'd like to land Hedberg...or Legace. That won't happen unless there's at least three teams in the deal...as I don't think Vancouver or Detroit are interested in helping the Avs out. I've also read that the Avs are in the hunt for Bondra and Zhamnov...I guess looking for someone to provide scoring on the third line...or perhaps Forsberg is worse off than they're letting on, and they want a top six type forward to take his spot. Hard to tell.

One thing to keep in mind is if the Avs are mentioned as a potential destination for a player...it's normally false. Lacroix likes to keep things quiet...see the Bourque...Blake...and Fleury trades...etc...Using that logic...it looks like they'll pick up Gonchar some point in the near future.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Lacroix likes to keep things quiet...see the Bourque...Blake...and Fleury trades...etc...Using that logic...it looks like they'll pick up Gonchar some point in the near future.

Unlike the Jagr deal today, Gonchar wouldn't be a salary dump, he's cheap and not a UFA after this season like Blake was the season the Avs traded for him. Hypothetically if Pierre wanted him, is he willing to do another deal to get Gonchar on par with what the Avs gave up to get Blake? Better yet, do the Avs even have the farm system to make the deal?

[orange 4 life]

Bwahahahahaaa!! You hit the nail on the head with that one! They are the Fade of the NHL, complete with moronic fans and all.

Hey twotimes......I signed up for my CI at the beginning of the season, and that very same thing happened to me. Not that I cared, because I can't stand basketball. But I did notice it only lasted a few weeks. I checked about 3 weeks later, and they figured out their mistake or something, it wasn't there anymore.

i thought about ordering it but it was a tough sell.
my wife already puts up with my 12-14 hour trips to all the bronco home games so she wasnt thrilled with me wanting to spend more money for all the nuggets and avs games. also, we get alot of the games anyway since we have a split of colorado and arizona sports here on fox.

...so when a game isnt televised i just tell my wife i need to go to the store and drive around in the parking lot for awhile. ;D

last night the reception was particularly bad as i had a spanish music station and a las cruces sports station competing but eventually i could at least somewhat hear haynes' voice. you do what youve gotta do right?

jake

ps- hayduke (pretty funny alec) has gotten royally screwed, and whoever said he's the simon fletcher of the avs hit it dead on.
i wasnt to surprised too see aebi left off the roster since he's in his first year replacing roy, but i was shocked to see hejduk (..i mean hayduke) snubbed again. hopefully this will motivate him even more.

[Ugly man]

I don't know that the Avs are particulary interested in Gonchar...I was kind of commenting on how Lacroix sneaks in the back door to nab coveted players. Then again you can't have enough quality blueliners. Not based on anything at all.

There's no way the Avs give up what they did for Blake (although when you get down to brass tacks they didn't give up much...considering all the time Deader and Miller have missed)...Gonchar is not nearly as a good a two way defenseman as Rob...although he'd look mighty nice at the point on any of the Avs powerplay units. His availability is mere rumor at this point...apparently anyone on the Caps' roster is available...including Lang.

I'd expect any package the Avs offer for any number of players to include Skoula... probably a prospect...I don't really know what they have on the farm... I'm also intrigued by the mention of LeCavalier from Tampa...this isn't the first time Colorado has been discussed as a possible destination for him. I don't see the Bolts dealing him despite all the discontent between him and Tortorella. I like his game though.

In all honestly the only move that the Avs have to make is getting a backup for Abby. Sauve is certainly not ready...he should be in Hershey playing everyday.

The approach of the trade deadline in hockey is fun.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I understand your point about throwing a name out there and this is all hypotheticals, but Skoula and maybe a prospect isn't going to get Gonchar or anywhere near him. No one wants the Skoula. Gonchar's +/- is horrendous this year, but he's also paired nightly with defenseman that wouldn't dress for just about every team in the league. He's not a stud in his own zone, but he's at least average and probably slightly above average in that end of the ice. He was also 2nd team All NHL the last two years, so the players think he is one of the top 4 defenseman in the league.

I'd also say on the Blake deal that 2 1sts, Aulin, a young top 6 forward, and a solid top 4 defenseman is a lot, even with Reinprecht coming back the other way.

Except for their young guys, everyone's available on the Caps roster. They'll trade Bondra and Kolzig before the deadline, probably Lang too, but I'd hope not Gonchar.

[Tredici]

Nice Ya-Girl made a stop off at the Caps before proceeding on to the "I've decided I don't need my name on the Cup but just want the money" Rangers..

Bondra is one of my favs. For that matter so is Sergei Gonchar. But please, just say no to Ollie the goalie. Sauve is as likely to hold steady as he is.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Olie has 4 defenseman in front of him nightly that wouldn't dress for any team in the league. He was **** in the beginning of the season, but before tonight's game, he's put up a GAA of a little over 2 and .930 save % in his last 12 starts. That's pretty damn good for what he's got in front of him every night. He's coming around, but it won't matter, he'll be traded in the next few weeks.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

and the day gets worse for all 10 of Caps fans who are left. Gonchar w/ a Grade 2 shoulder seperation and Bondra never came out for the 2nd even though there wasn't any indication that he got hurt in the 1st. Now all they need is Witt to get hurt and the Caps can suit up an AHL defensive corps every night for an NHL game.

[Mtbrncofn]

I'd expect any package the Avs offer for any number of players to include Skoula... probably a prospect...I don't really know what they have on the farm... I'm also intrigued by the mention of LeCavalier from Tampa...this isn't the first time Colorado has been discussed as a possible destination for him. I don't see the Bolts dealing him despite all the discontent between him and Tortorella. I like his game though.

In all honestly the only move that the Avs have to make is getting a backup for Abby. Sauve is certainly not ready...he should be in Hershey playing everyday.

The approach of the trade deadline in hockey is fun.


LeCavalier would be a great pick up, but I cringe to think of who they would give up to get someone of his caliber. Obviously, they didn't think much of that in the Jagr trade today. Even though he's a putz, he is a good player, and is having a decent year. I didn't hear all the details of the trade yet, all ESPN reported was that it was Jagr for Carter. Seems like the Caps got the short end of the stick there. Can't wait to see how this doesn't pan out for the Rangers yet again. I think they enjoy flushing their money down the toilet. :flush:

[Clockwork Orange]

Jagr to the Rangers is perfect. He's just the type of soft, moody, underachieving forward they're accustomed to......and high priced to boot! A born Ranger.

I somehow doubt the Avalanche will get into running for Gonchar. There's going to be a fierce bidding war for his his services, with the Leafs & Flyers likely at the front of the line. That could inflate his value and that tells me that Bobby Clarke will grossly overpay for him (remember, this is the GM who gave up top prospect Maxime Ouellette along with 1st, 2nd & 3rd round picks just to rent 39 year old Adam Oates for 2 months).

Bondra is an interesting thought. Rumor has it that Ottawa is very interested in him but the Avs have been mentioned as a possible suitor along with Toronto & Detroit.

I'd do the Blake trade again any day of the week and twice on Sunday. The Avs gave up a lot but they got one of the elite defensemen in the league in return. How often do guys like that become available? How often are guys like Lidstrom or Pronger on the block? Practically never, so when you get a chance to land one, you grab it with both hands.

Remember, last year Detroit gave up 2 young players along with a 1st rounder & a 2nd rounder for Mathieu Schneider. For Mathieu Schneider. That says it all as far as the market for defensemen, especially around the trade deadline.

I expect the Avs will be involved in talks, and if there's a deal to be made that Pierre Lacroix thinks will get them closer to the Cup, he'll pull the trigger. He's never been shy in the past.

I'd be happy if he could get the Avs a 3rd line winger with a bit of scoring touch, a 3rd pairing defenseman for depth purposes and a veteran backup goaltender for insurance. Nothing earth-shattering, just some lower level moves to solidify the roster. Mike Grier, Bob Boughner & Sean Burke would be just fine with me.

[Mtbrncofn]

I am almost sure Clockwork has to be a hockey analyst somewhere on TV.....if not, you missed your calling, CO! ;)

[Clockwork Orange]

If only I could actually get paid to watch hockey.......:)

[Ugly man]

Mike Grier is in no way an upgrade over Kono...Hinote...or especially Nikolishin (which should be the third line). If you want a physical presence on the third line...Worrell fits the bill...he has really been coming on of late. He's physical, and has some skill. Of course all of that goes out the window if Forsberg stays out for another 15-20 games.

I think when you consider any possible deals that the Avs may or may not make this year...you have to take into account that the Avs are dealing from a position of strength. They do not NEED to make any moves...aside from a back up goal tender. A guy like Ron Tugnutt should be considered. Burke is chic, but Gretzky has been trying to rape people who want him. Kolzig is expensive...and Khabibulin isn't going anywhere. If they want to trade for a starting caliber goalie I'd say go for Biron from Buffalo.

I really threw out Gonchar's name on a lark...The Avs' blueline is pretty friggin' solid...with Foote/Skrastins...Blake(your norris trophy winner)/Skoula...Morris/Liles...They're nice. They also have the kid in college that they picked up when they traded Rhino.

LeCavalier is nothing more than a pipe dream...although if the situation in Tampa continues to deteriorate perhaps he could be had. A guy like Skoula would be pretty sexy to them...he has a lot of upside...and he's still young...like 24...he came in at 18. Most D-men don't find their grooves until their mid to late 20's. (Obviously it would take something more than Marty to land Vince...but right now I'm not sure that it'd be that much more.) Personally I'm not ready to give up on Skoula.

In my ideal world...Ray Bourque has been skating like a madman the past few months...and covertly working out with a minor league team...in hopes of raising the cup one more time...of course the Avs would have to unretire his number for a spell.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I didn't hear all the details of the trade yet, all ESPN reported was that it was Jagr for Carter. Seems like the Caps got the short end of the stick there. Can't wait to see how this doesn't pan out for the Rangers yet again. I think they enjoy flushing their money down the toilet. :flush:

It was a straight salary dump for the Caps. From what I've heard the financial details of the trade are different than what TSN and ESPN are reporting. Leonsis was on DC radio yesterday and said as much. The Caps aren't paying any of Jagr's salary this year and depending on what happens w/ the new CBA, they could pay up to $16 mil over 4 years, but they could also pay a lot less than that $16 mil. I'm sure they're happy w/ just Carter if there's a chance they could get completely out from under that albatross contract without having to pay much of it. Leonsis did say the word "cap" in that interview, and that the Caps will be under it when hockey came back.

Grier sucks. The guy missed probably his 10th or so SH breakaway last night. He wouldn't cost much for any team who wanted him.

[orange 4 life]

I am almost sure Clockwork has to be a hockey analyst somewhere on TV.....if not, you missed your calling, CO! ;)

i agree. thank you clockwork for your insight. id rep you for every post but it wont let me.

another question.

do we have enough people to start a nuggets thread?

last night was a disappointment but this team is really turning some heads. i wont lie and say i saw this coming either. i thought 35 or 40 wins was a possibility but thats about it. now im wondering if 45 and a 6-8 seed isnt possible if not likely.

anyway, just wanted to see if anyone else talks nuggets and nba.
im sure clockwork is in based on his avatar.

jake

[Spider]

it is good to see the Avs get some love from Fans ............
As for the Nuggies ...... i dont like B Ball , while I never trash the nugs , I dont watch them either

[orange 4 life]

it is good to see the Avs get some love from Fans ............
As for the Nuggies ...... i dont like B Ball , while I never trash the nugs , I dont watch them either

fair enough.

it seems like a denver sports food chain.
broncos are the CLEAR #1 with the most fans in denver and fans around the globe.
avs are next but most fans are localized
nuggets replaced the rockies as #3 and get decent support locally
rockies pull up the rear and have few die hard fans anywhere.

thats why i put out a feeler. if only a couple people care its not worth a thread.

as for me, im weird with my allegiances (all rocky mountain i might add)

my father was a basketball player and coach (high school and college) and i was a player (high school and briefly in college)
fundamentally i know more about that game than any other, and i can enjoy watching any game regardless of who's playing

....but the nuggets and jazz (i went to byu) are a DISTANT second to the broncos and probably below the avs.

anyway, bronco football is one of the most important things in my life despite the fact that i stopped playing football to pursue bball full time back in jr. high.
my whole family (been in co. since 1892) is bronco fans and maybe its also the fact that they were in denver LONG before the avs and rockies and a decade before even the nugs.

sorry to ramble.

jake

[Clockwork Orange]

If you want to start a Nuggets thread, I'll be happy to chime in. I watch the games whenever I can....including the disappointing loss to New Orleans last night.:(

I also wanted to add that I don't believe that Grier is an upgrade over Kono or Niko either. But I think that he'd be a nice fit alongside those two. He's got 20 goal capability and a physical edge to his game that I'd love to see the Avs acquire. Hinote can play on the 4th line with Worrell & Larsen, now that's a physical line.

If Gretzky wants anyone to overpay for 36 year old Sean Burke, he's kidding himself. Sounds kind of like the current situation in Chicago, where the Blackhawks are asking for a top 4 defenseman for UFA to be Alexei Zhamnov. Look for the asking prices to come down as the trade deadline gets closer and the GMs start to realize that they could end up losing these guys for nothing at seasons end if they don't get a deal done.

[Breck Bronc]

Looks like I'm late in adding this, anyway, most people remember Hejduk getting snubbed last year from the All-Star team, but he also wasn't selected as a reserve for the 2001 game in Denver. Milan was, IIRC, 2nd in the league in goals at the time. Hejduk was added to the World team when Alex Mogilny couldn't play due to injury, and was also named a starter for the game, which he should have been anyway.

The interesting thing about the 2001 game is the starting lineups for both the World and North American teams;

North American starting lineup;

G- Patrick Roy, Colorado
D- Rob Blake, Los Angeles - would be an Av about a month later
D- Ray Bourque, Colorado
W- Theo Fleury, New York - member of the Avalanche for a few months of the '98-'99 season
W- Paul Kariya, Anaheim - current member of the Avalanche
C- Joe Sakic, Colorado

World starting lineup;

G- Dominik Hasek, Buffalo
D- Sandis Ozolinsh, Carolina - mainstay on Avalanche blueline from 1995 to 2000
D- Niklas Lidstrom, Detroit
W- Milan Hejduk, Colorado
W- Pavel Bure, Florida
C- Peter Forsberg, Colorado

So out of 12 starters Colorado had 5 current members of their 2001 team, 1 player (Blake) who would soon be on the team, and 3 guys who were former Avs or would be an Av within 2 years (Fleury, Ozo, Kariya).

I own season tickets and was lucky enough to go to both the 2001 All Star game and Skills Competition. Having all those players in the game was awesome, I'll never forget that weekend. The 2000-'01 season was as good as it gets, nothing in sports will ever top it for me personally;

1. Switched my season tickets from the upper deck (too far away at Pepsi Center compared to McNichols) to 8 rows behind the net which Colorado attacked twice. Great view for every goal scored in that end.
2. Roy breaks Sawchuk's all-time victories record (unfortunately on the road in Washington).
3. Sakic, Hejduk, and Tanguay are paired together to form the JAM line, putting up huge points all year.
4. Pepsi Center hosts the All-Star Weekend (the Skills Competition is so much more fun than the game itself).
5. 5 Avs are in the starting lineup and Bob Hartley is an assistant coach (does anyone remember who the head coach was? I can't remember for the life of me and can't find my game program).
6. Lacroix trades for Rob Blake and Steve Reinprecht, the last pieces of the puzzle. Still, it was hard to see Deader go. Turns out his concussion sustained in a fight against Jovanovski might have ruined his career.
7. Avs win President's Trophy for having the most regular season points.
8. A harder than it looked sweep of up-and-coming Vancouver in the first round.
9. An even harder 7 game series victory over Los Angeles. The biggest story comes as Forsberg is lost for the remainder of the playoffs after having emergency spleen surgery after the game 7 victory in Denver. I thought our chances were shot after losing Foppa.
10. Joe Sakic scores on a penalty shot against Roman Turek in game 1 of the Western Conference Finals
11. Joe Sakic scores a minute into overtime of game 5 to clinch a spot in the Stanley Cup Finals against New Jersey.
12. All the experts predict an easy series victory for the defending Stanley Cup champion Devils. Colorado disagrees and skates New Jersey out of the Pepsi Center in game 1, 5-0.
13. Facing elimination in game 6 at the Meadowlands, Patrick Roy stands on his head in the first period as New Jersey dominates play. Adam Foote scores a soft goal at the end of that period and the Avs cruise to a 3-0 win, sending the series back to Denver for the final game.
14. In the biggest game ever played in Denver (for my money), Alex Tanguay scores the first goal right in front of me, wrapping around the net and roofing the puck past Brodeur.
15. In the second period, Tanguay scores on a rebound from a Sakic shot, then Joey unleashes an ungodly shot between Scott Stevens' legs and over Brodeur's shoulder, giving Colorado an insurmountable 3-0 lead.
16. Peter Forsberg makes his way to the bench, jersey on, ready to join the celebration. He is shown on the jumbotron and the crowd goes absolutely wild.
17. The Stanley Cup makes its entrance onto the ice, the greatest moment a hockey fan can ever see live, especially when their team just won it!
18. The captain, Sakic, takes the Cup from Bettman, and breaking tradition, doesn't raise it himself, instead giving it to the man of the hour, Ray Bourque. One of the classiest moves I've ever seen.
19. Patrick Roy wins his record third Conn Smythe trophy.
20. At the awards ceremony a week later, Sakic wins the Hart, Pearson, and Lady Byng (lol) trophies. Shjon Podein wins the King Clancy trophy for work in the community. His wife is shown on TV, definitely a hottie.

Hopefully this season turns out to be as spectacular at the end. 3 Cups in 9 years would cap off a great run.

[twotimes3233]

Looks like I'm late in adding this, anyway, most people remember Hejduk getting snubbed last year from the All-Star team, but he also wasn't selected as a reserve for the 2001 game in Denver. Milan was, IIRC, 2nd in the league in goals at the time. Hejduk was added to the World team when Alex Mogilny couldn't play due to injury, and was also named a starter for the game, which he should have been anyway.

The interesting thing about the 2001 game is the starting lineups for both the World and North American teams;

North American starting lineup;

G- Patrick Roy, Colorado
D- Rob Blake, Los Angeles - would be an Av about a month later
D- Ray Bourque, Colorado
W- Theo Fleury, New York - member of the Avalanche for a few months of the '98-'99 season
W- Paul Kariya, Anaheim - current member of the Avalanche
C- Joe Sakic, Colorado

World starting lineup;

G- Dominik Hasek, Buffalo
D- Sandis Ozolinsh, Carolina - mainstay on Avalanche blueline from 1995 to 2000
D- Niklas Lidstrom, Detroit
W- Milan Hejduk, Colorado
W- Pavel Bure, Florida
C- Peter Forsberg, Colorado

So out of 12 starters Colorado had 5 current members of their 2001 team, 1 player (Blake) who would soon be on the team, and 3 guys who were former Avs or would be an Av within 2 years (Fleury, Ozo, Kariya).

I own season tickets and was lucky enough to go to both the 2001 All Star game and Skills Competition. Having all those players in the game was awesome, I'll never forget that weekend. The 2000-'01 season was as good as it gets, nothing in sports will ever top it for me personally;

1. Switched my season tickets from the upper deck (too far away at Pepsi Center compared to McNichols) to 8 rows behind the net which Colorado attacked twice. Great view for every goal scored in that end.
2. Roy breaks Sawchuk's all-time victories record (unfortunately on the road in Washington).
3. Sakic, Hejduk, and Tanguay are paired together to form the JAM line, putting up huge points all year.
4. Pepsi Center hosts the All-Star Weekend (the Skills Competition is so much more fun than the game itself).
5. 5 Avs are in the starting lineup and Bob Hartley is an assistant coach (does anyone remember who the head coach was? I can't remember for the life of me and can't find my game program).
6. Lacroix trades for Rob Blake and Steve Reinprecht, the last pieces of the puzzle. Still, it was hard to see Deader go. Turns out his concussion sustained in a fight against Jovanovski might have ruined his career.
7. Avs win President's Trophy for having the most regular season points.
8. A harder than it looked sweep of up-and-coming Vancouver in the first round.
9. An even harder 7 game series victory over Los Angeles. The biggest story comes as Forsberg is lost for the remainder of the playoffs after having emergency spleen surgery after the game 7 victory in Denver. I thought our chances were shot after losing Foppa.
10. Joe Sakic scores on a penalty shot against Roman Turek in game 1 of the Western Conference Finals
11. Joe Sakic scores a minute into overtime of game 5 to clinch a spot in the Stanley Cup Finals against New Jersey.
12. All the experts predict an easy series victory for the defending Stanley Cup champion Devils. Colorado disagrees and skates New Jersey out of the Pepsi Center in game 1, 5-0.
13. Facing elimination in game 6 at the Meadowlands, Patrick Roy stands on his head in the first period as New Jersey dominates play. Adam Foote scores a soft goal at the end of that period and the Avs cruise to a 3-0 win, sending the series back to Denver for the final game.
14. In the biggest game ever played in Denver (for my money), Alex Tanguay scores the first goal right in front of me, wrapping around the net and roofing the puck past Brodeur.
15. In the second period, Tanguay scores on a rebound from a Sakic shot, then Joey unleashes an ungodly shot between Scott Stevens' legs and over Brodeur's shoulder, giving Colorado an insurmountable 3-0 lead.
16. Peter Forsberg makes his way to the bench, jersey on, ready to join the celebration. He is shown on the jumbotron and the crowd goes absolutely wild.
17. The Stanley Cup makes its entrance onto the ice, the greatest moment a hockey fan can ever see live, especially when their team just won it!
18. The captain, Sakic, takes the Cup from Bettman, and breaking tradition, doesn't raise it himself, instead giving it to the man of the hour, Ray Bourque. One of the classiest moves I've ever seen.
19. Patrick Roy wins his record third Conn Smythe trophy.
20. At the awards ceremony a week later, Sakic wins the Hart, Pearson, and Lady Byng (lol) trophies. Shjon Podein wins the King Clancy trophy for work in the community. His wife is shown on TV, definitely a hottie.

Hopefully this season turns out to be as spectacular at the end. 3 Cups in 9 years would cap off a great run.

Excellent post Breck.
I have every game of that playoff run on tape and I still break that final game out from time to time when there is nothing else on.

We are so lucky to have at least two championship quality teams in our city.

[Tredici]

One of the most traumatizing nights of my life. Game 7 Avs/Devils.

It was third day following the onslaught of Tropical Storm Allison in Houston. Trust me, by this point in time there were no longer any life threatening situations occurring anywhere. But the media were all reluctant to leave the story.

Before 7 my phone rings and one of my friends asks "They are going to show the game aren't they?" I laughed because I couldn't conceive of them NOT showing it. Well... by 7:10 full blown panic had set it. The Houston ABC affliate chose to show a loop of the exact same floodlights on flood water we had seen for two days running as opposed to the decisive game in the Stanley Cup finals. Since it was on ABC, the broadcast was not on the DirecTV channels.

We get in the car and negotiate our way to the local sports bar only to discover it was closed because they had some flooding earlier in the week. (We learned later that only one place in The Galleria area actually showed the game.)

I believe I stridently wished for the Astros to make the World Series and on the deciding game no Houstonian would be able to witness Bagwell and Biggio getting their rings.

Forced to listen to intermittent updates on the sports radio. Agony. They rebroadcast the game starting at 11PM. I knew we had won the Cup because I picked up the phone and on the other end was my sister, brother-in-law, and the entire populace of the bar they were at cheering and screaming....

[Spider]

fair enough.

it seems like a denver sports food chain.
broncos are the CLEAR #1 with the most fans in denver and fans around the globe.
avs are next but most fans are localized
nuggets replaced the rockies as #3 and get decent support locally
rockies pull up the rear and have few die hard fans anywhere.

thats why i put out a feeler. if only a couple people care its not worth a thread.

as for me, im weird with my allegiances (all rocky mountain i might add)

my father was a basketball player and coach (high school and college) and i was a player (high school and briefly in college)
fundamentally i know more about that game than any other, and i can enjoy watching any game regardless of who's playing

....but the nuggets and jazz (i went to byu) are a DISTANT second to the broncos and probably below the avs.

anyway, bronco football is one of the most important things in my life despite the fact that i stopped playing football to pursue bball full time back in jr. high.
my whole family (been in co. since 1892) is bronco fans and maybe its also the fact that they were in denver LONG before the avs and rockies and a decade before even the nugs.

sorry to ramble.

jake
Ramble away Bro , I grew up on the Broncos , hard core ....... I did try and watch an entire season of the Nuggies , just to be sure i dont like B ball ......
Hockey is ok , good past time for the off season . Baseball is a sport to be played not watched , but I still watch Rockies cause my 12 year old Daughter , she adores the Rockies and AVS .........

[Clockwork Orange]

One last note on the Jagr to NY Rangers deal, a photo of what's to come.

http://www.pfi2k.com/images/Rangers7.jpg

:)

Forsberg returns tonight and puts up 2 goals & 1 assist as the Avs finish the roadie with a win in Pittsburgh. That gives him 39 points in 23 games, and an astounding 15 multi-point games out of those 23. :notworthy

[Breck Bronc]

The Senators-Rangers game was so fun tonight that I missed some Avalanche action to watch the NYR meltdown. Ottawa sure was gunning for 10 goals at the end of the game.

I do think Jagr will do well on a line with Nedved and Rucinsky/Hlavac, all Czechs. Czechs seem to have good chemistry when paired together for the Rangers. The rest of the team will still underachieve with the weak blueline and inconsistent Dunham.

Back to the Avs, Hejduk couldn't get anything past Fleury tonight, he could have had a hat trick but ended with nothing. Hopefully Nikolishin isn't hurt too bad, he's a real important role player. Maybe Selanne will start playing better after getting off the schnide.

[BlueDamsel]

hahahaha 9-1 LOL. Sorry. Too funny...

[Mtbrncofn]

Forsberg looked great as always, although I will say I cringed when he went down in front of the net. I was really surprised to see him suit up for a game of that little magnitude. He must be ok. I just don't see them risking him on a game like that if he wasn't ready to go.

I see Sauve made the roster for the Young Stars game. Liles should have made it too. Cripes, Liles is a better D man, than Suave is a goalie at this point. Ok, he ranks 12th among rooks right now, but still.....they just must be thin at goalie in the rook dept. this year. His GAA has to be astronomical, I can't seem to find it right now though.

[Ugly man]

Looks like Hejduk has been snubbed repeatedly...in regards to the allstar game. Good. If it ain't broke...don't fix it. Dude is bank.

I was surprised to see Pete back already. Gawd it'd be sweet to what he could've done in the 80's. Almost a certain 200 point season.

I understand what Granato is doing with Selanne...but I don't like it. I really think he should stay on the Sakic/Kariya line. He has been cold...but he's also very streaky...in his defense there's been no continuity for him do to injury...Once he gets hot...watch out...Sakic is simply Super Joe...Kariya has come back with mad jump...once the Finnish Flash starts feeling it...I feel sorry for the D corps facing the top two lines...

I really like this roster...Lacroix proved his value this off season...Kariya/Selanne fell into his lap...but picking up Skrastins...Nikolishin...and Konowalchuk was nothing short of larceny...not to mention dumping Parker for Worrell...

In regards to Burke...last year St. Louis was interested...and I believe Gretz asked for Barrett Jackman...I may be wrong...I'm going off of memory here. I'd stay away from that one kick save away from a pulled groin pretender...unless he came on clearance. This Avs team has the feel of the '98-'99 donks. Calm...cool...and expecting nothing short of victory.

I don't understand why the NHL failed to ride the wave the 2002 Olympics created. The tourney was wicked popular...and the hockey exquisite.

Here's how you fix the league. Obviously they're not going to crack down on the obstruction...at least consistently. Go to the international rink dimensions...a la the ice is bigger...there's no 2 line pass...the hitting is just as impressive...and the obstruction is greatly reduced...as there's room on the ice. When you show the games on T.V. air the best matchups...Avs/Red Wings...Avs/Canucks...Maple Leafs/Senators...and so on...Show the teams who get up and down the ice...there's a lot of excitement out there...Bettman seems to hate it though.

Someone mentioned the camera angles they used during the 2001 cup. Another innovation that I was interested in was Fox's glowing puck. It certainly need serious development...but it was a step in the right direction. The thing with hockey is...to enjoy it on t.v....you have to watch a lot of it. Newcomers lose the puck. When you watch it religiously...you can see the play developing...where the puck is headed...and who has their head down is subsequently crushed. Getting into it takes patience though. I've been an NHL fan for 15 or 16 years now...it gets me geeked up.

[BlueDamsel]

Another innovation that I was interested in was Fox's glowing puck. It certainly need serious development...but it was a step in the right direction. The thing with hockey is...to enjoy it on t.v....you have to watch a lot of it. Newcomers lose the puck. When you watch it religiously...you can see the play developing...where the puck is headed...and who has their head down is subsequently crushed. Getting into it takes patience though. I've been an NHL fan for 15 or 16 years now...it gets me geeked up.

UGh! Do *not* bring back the glowing puck. That was annoying! I know that it's great for newbs, but not for those of us that have watched hockey on a regular basis.

[watermock]

I would enjoy the game better if they would be trying to throw footballs in the net on skates.

I suppose that would leave alot of fingers on the ice however.

[alkemical]

Come on, you think beating my pens is some sort of challange? We haven't won since we beat the flyers like a month ago -

We got 2 guys in the young all stars game - Fluery - and this guy (keep an eye on him, cuz if things go the way they seem to, when his contract comes up we probablly can't afford to keep him) - Brooks Orpick - he's a D - payed college hockey - he's a big guy, moves well and is nasty

[Ugly man]

Yeah...screw the glowing puck...and any other innovation that could make hockey more appealing to the general public. It was nowhere near perfect...and obviously needed a serious overhaul...but the fact of the matter is Fox was trying. The league needs more of that. The status quo is obviously not getting it done with the masses. ESPN's Hockey Rules was a good idea...although I'm sure those who watch hockey on a regular basis were bored with the explanations of icing and what the neutral zone is.

I think the Pens will most likely leave Pitt unless they get a new arena. I feel bad for Penguins fan. If Fleury can keep his head on straight he's going to be sweet.

Ames...I heard that Morozov is on the table...have you heard anything about that?

[Clockwork Orange]

I've been watching M.A. Fleury all year, this kid is for real. Disregard his numbers, any goaltender in the NHL would be hard pressed to put up any kind of decent stats playing behind that porous Pens team. Fleury was the only reason the Avs didn't put up 10 goals in that game, and he actually got a couple of unlucky bounces that ended up in his net. He was outstanding and he's a mere 18 years old.

[Swedish Extrovert]

The more I watch Forsberg, the more amazed I am. This guy rules. 3-1 win over Edmonton, I watched it at Sport Clips while I got my hair done. Intersting place, that. Hey, I had a coupon.

[Ugly man]

You picked a good time to watch...Forsberg has been a much better player the past couple of years...he lost his spleen...had several ankle surgeries(sp?)...and finally has begun to understand the North American game...He's had a bit of a rep of being a diver in the past...but I think that's him not being ready for the physicality of the NHL...Saying that...he is raped on a nightly basis...It's his own fault for being so good...I loved watching the playoffs last year...seeing Wes Walz tackling him behind the Minnesota net...Pete retaliating with a hook to the jaw...and them both going to the box...and Walz being lauded as a great defensive player...what a joke.

If you've seen Pete play especially in international games...you understand that he's John Elway on skates...except he's more talented...He's a goddamned virtuoso...He skates with the speed of carl lewis...the grace of barishnikov...the bad intentions of lawrence taylor...and the handling of a tricked out ferrari...he really is something else.

It's a shame we won't see him after this year...save the upcoming olympics. He loves Sweden.

[Tredici]

Here's one of the great descriptions of Forsberg.

Eyes of an Angel.
Heart of an Assassin.

[orange 4 life]

If you've seen Pete play especially in international games...you understand that he's John Elway on skates...except he's more talented...He's a goddamned virtuoso....

man, i was with you until that horrific and blasphemous MORE talented comment. different player, different team, different SPORT.
bad form, bad form.

[alkemical]

Yeah...screw the glowing puck...and any other innovation that could make hockey more appealing to the general public. It was nowhere near perfect...and obviously needed a serious overhaul...but the fact of the matter is Fox was trying. The league needs more of that. The status quo is obviously not getting it done with the masses. ESPN's Hockey Rules was a good idea...although I'm sure those who watch hockey on a regular basis were bored with the explanations of icing and what the neutral zone is.

I think the Pens will most likely leave Pitt unless they get a new arena. I feel bad for Penguins fan. If Fleury can keep his head on straight he's going to be sweet.

Ames...I heard that Morozov is on the table...have you heard anything about that?


Morozov is going to be up on the block. He's due 1.5mil - and the pens were counting on him being a 15-20goal scorer as well as some creativity (assists). He's not doing it, and he's not doing the other things (dirty work) - we are going to kinda be built like buffalo - they are trying to build young, keep payroll down, until they get their new arena. I know some Group out of W.Va that owns some casino's has offered to put up some money.

MA Fluery is good, and we got like 4 D's that are all 1st/2nd round picks -

another guy going up on the block is going to be Milan Kraft - he's like the mario of the AHL, but can't or hasn't put it together yet in the NHL - IMO - he'll leave PITT and become another markus nasland (which sucks for me!).

You know what's so funny though - we got rid of jagr for kris beech, and then the caps get rid of him for anson carter (who i totally dig) - but isn't it funny that jagr is now where he belongs....


Forsberg is good, but - the injury thing is going to hang on him with people outside of colorado - He's good, but for how many games a year, etc.

I love hockey, and i see the desert dogs doing right - doan is awesome, nagy, they got hrdina (we got this guy ramiz abid - he's gotten good reviews by scouts) - (I dug hrdina too) -

So i guess if you need good youth for depth, come to the pens, we practically give them away!

I've been watching M.A. Fleury all year, this kid is for real. Disregard his numbers, any goaltender in the NHL would be hard pressed to put up any kind of decent stats playing behind that porous Pens team. Fleury was the only reason the Avs didn't put up 10 goals in that game, and he actually got a couple of unlucky bounces that ended up in his net. He was outstanding and he's a mere 18 years old.


no doubt, we are a horrible team this year, and probably for the next few years. Paul Allen (Microsoft) wanted to buy them and move them to portland a few years ago - Until mario stepped up and saved the franchise again.

If we could get a system going with some cash to sign the talent we groom, and play a north american style (big D that can skate, forwards who can grind and score - ala elias) we'll be ok -

Oh well the bright side is that we are in the running to draft that russian kid who's supposed to be teh bomb

[alkemical]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04029/266884.stm

Orpik's value to Penguins weighed on sport's seismic scale

___

This guy is in the young all stars game - i totally think this guy has a good future

[Ugly man]

"Forsberg is good, but - the injury thing is going to hang on him with people outside of colorado - He's good, but for how many games a year, etc."

If that is the case then no one outside of Colorado watches hockey. In interviews/articles given by "experts" Pete is generally regarded as the best player in the world. Obviously it's nothing more than opinion. It seems that in only 24 games this year he's been better than a good deal of other stars around the league. His 41 points tops the output by Iginla, Roenick, Modano, Guerin, Fedorov...etc. He's within shouting distance of guys like Jager, and Thornton. He only trails Hejduk by 7 points. Serious production.

http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/stats?service=direct&context=Home/completePointLeaderLink

[bronco militia]

"Forsberg is good, but - the injury thing is going to hang on him with people outside of colorado - He's good, but for how many games a year, etc."

If that is the case then no one outside of Colorado watches hockey. In interviews/articles given by "experts" Pete is generally regarded as the best player in the world. Obviously it's nothing more than opinion. It seems that in only 24 games this year he's been better than a good deal of other stars around the league. His 41 points tops the output by Iginla, Roenick, Modano, Guerin, Fedorov...etc. He's within shouting distance of guys like Jager, and Thornton. He only trails Hejduk by 7 points. Serious production.

http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/stats?service=direct&context=Home/completePointLeaderLink


don't bother....ames still thinks Lindros is better than Foppa when Lindros was healthy. :twitch:

heck, I think he's a closet Phlyers fan :giggle: :poke: :pfbbt: :approve:

[Swedish Extrovert]

I'm sorry, Forsberg IS the Elway of hockey.

Damn.. I always miss the international games. They had it this year, didnt they? And I missed it.

I hope there is some way to get that.

Its a damn shame we wont get to see him play after this year.

Maybe one more year..... just so we can appreciate his skills..... please, pete?

[Pezman]

Ok, I am GEEKED up about this...

Tonight I'm going to see the Avs play the Kings. My seats will be crappy but I'll be there pimping the Avs gear hard!

And then tomorrow, the wifey has corporate box seats at the Pond for the Ducks-Avs game! Woohoo!!! I can't wait!
This will be the first Avs game I've been able to attend since I moved from Colorado last year. Needless to say, I hope Abey and the boys get a couple of key W's!

GO AVS!!!!

[orange 4 life]

I'm sorry, Forsberg IS the Elway of hockey.

Damn.. I always miss the international games. They had it this year, didnt they? And I missed it.

I hope there is some way to get that.

Its a damn shame we wont get to see him play after this year.

Maybe one more year..... just so we can appreciate his skills..... please, pete?

im with the "elway of hockey" statement. just not "better"

*********

on another note, i think injuries or a colossal letdown are the only things that will prevent us from winning another cup.

i remember when i first heard about the selanne and kariya signings. i called my sister who's a big fan, but still learning the game and she said whats the news. i said the news is that we won the cup and the season hasnt even started. i was that excited about the pair coming to denver. what i didnt anticipate was how good aebi would be. or how well this team would mesh and overcome adversity due to injury. glory will be ours. it wont erasethe heartache of the bronco season, but it will make it a little easier to deal with.

jake

[Breck Bronc]

The thing of it is, Kariya and Selanne both have yet to hit their stride, the other, less heralded off-season (and in-season) acquisitions by Lacroix have helped the team more so far, Skrastins, Nikolishin, Konowalchuk, and even Worrell. Add the stellar play of rookie J.M. Liles, Aebischer playing like he did as a back-up in '01-'02, Tanguay improving on his excellent performance since Granato was hired, and the continued brilliance of Forsberg, Sakic, Foote, Hejduk, and Blake, and the Avs are sitting atop the NHL right now despite the 3rd most man-games lost to injury.

Four players I would like to step it up a bit are Skoula, Morris, Selanne, and Kariya.

Skoula has been ok of late, which is all I hope from him anymore. Now that I think of it, Skoula's career in Colorado has gone a lot like Deltha O'neil's has for the Broncos. They both played very well in their first year as regulars, Skoula as a rookie in 1999-'00 and O'neil as a second year player in 2001. They both regressed a bit in their second seasons, although Skoula played important minutes on a championship team on O'neil was benched at the end of the season. Presently, both players have regressed even more, Skoula is trade bait and O'neil doesn't even play on defense anymore. Unlike Deltha, I think Skoula can turn it around, as he hasn't been as much of a disaster.

Morris has been mediocre to a little above average this year. He does make nice breakout passes from his own zone, but his defensive positioning and awareness need improvement.

Kariya's chipped in points here and there, I have a feeling he'll start to score more goals in the transition game; two-on-one's, three-on-two's etc. The game in Anaheim is going to be real interesting. That crowd will be very hostile towards him. I think he’ll excel in that situation. How sweet would a hat trick be?

[orange 4 life]

The thing of it is, Kariya and Selanne both have yet to hit their stride, the other, less heralded off-season (and in-season) acquisitions by Lacroix have helped the team more so far, Skrastins, Nikolishin, Konowalchuk, and even Worrell. Add the stellar play of rookie J.M. Liles, Aebischer playing like he did as a back-up in '01-'02, Tanguay improving on his excellent performance since Granato was hired, and the continued brilliance of Forsberg, Sakic, Foote, Hejduk, and Blake, and the Avs are sitting atop the NHL right now despite the 3rd most man-games lost to injury.

Four players I would like to step it up a bit are Skoula, Morris, Selanne, and Kariya.

Skoula has been ok of late, which is all I hope from him anymore. Now that I think of it, Skoula's career in Colorado has gone a lot like Deltha O'neil's has for the Broncos. They both played very well in their first year as regulars, Skoula as a rookie in 1999-'00 and O'neil as a second year player in 2001. They both regressed a bit in their second seasons, although Skoula played important minutes on a championship team on O'neil was benched at the end of the season. Presently, both players have regressed even more, Skoula is trade bait and O'neil doesn't even play on defense anymore. Unlike Deltha, I think Skoula can turn it around, as he hasn't been as much of a disaster.

Morris has been mediocre to a little above average this year. He does make nice breakout passes from his own zone, but his defensive positioning and awareness need improvement.

Kariya's chipped in points here and there, I have a feeling he'll start to score more goals in the transition game; two-on-one's, three-on-two's etc. The game in Anaheim is going to be real interesting. That crowd will be very hostile towards him. I think he’ll excel in that situation. How sweet would a hat trick be?

great post breck.
i didnt really make my point clear but i agree with you about selanne and kariya.
thats whats so exciting.
i cant imagine what this team could do with a healthy selanne and kariya firing on all cylinders.
its scary.
if this team doesnt win the cup it will be an upset of epic proportions.

[Swedish Extrovert]

I used to post on the Vancouver Canucks forum (I was a troll like Roy, Adam, or Zach there ;D) they absolutly freaked out over there. Here were some quotes

"I guess we should just give them the cup"

Um.... yea.....

"I'm sick of these big business sports teams buying the championship. The Avalanche are the Yankees of hockey. This is un fair"

Actually, our payroll is not the top in the NHL. I believe its near the top, but this prestigous title goes to the Dallas Stars. All of our stars (save Salanne and Karia) were either drafted or picked up on a trade (someone posted the stats).

"I cant believe how selfish Karia was for leaving Anaheim. They build the franchise around him, and he leave for more cash"

Actually Karia signed a bargain-basement deal - just to be with Salane and win a championship. Same with Salanne. I'd like to see one of these guys sign for $2million for anyone else.

Thats why Karia accepted less money - him and Selanne deviated a plan to come together, on the team that they thought had the best chance to win the championship.

---------

Yup, here it is -

Just to address the Yankee comparison, it's not nearly the same situation. The Yankees are notorious for throwing ridiculous amounts money at anyone and everyone they want, the Avalanche have had a much different approach.

Here's a look at the Avs top players and how they wound up in an Avalanche uniform.

Joe Sakic: Drafted in the 1st round.

Peter Forsberg: Acquired along with Mike Ricci, Chris Simon, Steve Duchesne, Kerry Huffman & Ron Hextall, 2 1st round draft picks and $15 million in cash for the rights to Eric Lindros. Lindros refused to play for the then Nordiques, so this was a move they had no choice but to make.......and a move the Flyers regret to this very day.

Rob Blake: Acquired along with Steve Reinprecht for Adam Deadmarsh, Aaron Miller, Jared Aulin and 2 1st round picks (one of the picks was conditional on Blake re-signing with the Avalanche, which he obviously did).......the Avs gave quality to get quality.

Adam Foote: Drafted in the 1st round.

Milan Hejduk: Drafted in the 4th round. (an absolute steal)

Alex Tanguay: Drafted in the 1st round.

Derek Morris: Acquired along with Jeff Shantz & Dean McAmmond for Chris Drury & Stephane Yelle.

Kariya & Selanne: Signed as free agents for a combined $7 million.....these two came as a package deal obviously. Colorado was their first choice, but Pierre Lacroix told them that he couldn't give them market value and that signing here probably wouldn't happen. These two were willing to do what it took within the Avs budget to get a deal done and the rest is history. The money these two are making is the salary slot vacated by Patrick Roy when he retired.

Andrei Nikolishin: Acquired from Chicago for future considerations.

Karlis Skrastins: Acquired from Nashville for future considerations.

Steve Konowalchuk: Acquired along with a 3rd round pick for Bates Battaglia and Jonas Johansson.

Martin Skoula: Drafted in the 1st round.

The Avalanche have made one dip into the free agent pool since they've been in Colorado (Kariya & Selanne) and that was at bargain basement prices. So while teams like the Rangers have gone out and thrown ridiculous money at undeserving players, the Avalanche have used their resources to keep their core of stars in tact. These guys make a lot of money, but what they make looks like a bargain if you compared it to what they would get on the open market.

Good drafting, solid trades and the willingness to spend the money to keep the guys they needed to keep have been the trademark of the Avalanche front office.

It's served them well. 2 Stanley Cups, 2 President's Trophies, 2 Western Conference titles & 9 division titles.

This year the Avalanche aren't even in the top 5 in the NHL in payroll. NY Rangers, Detroit, Philadelphia, Toronto & Dallas all have higher payrolls than the Avalanche.

It's not what you spend, it's how you spend it.:)

[Breck Bronc]

great post breck.
i didnt really make my point clear but i agree with you about selanne and kariya.
thats whats so exciting.
i cant imagine what this team could do with a healthy selanne and kariya firing on all cylinders.
its scary.
if this team doesnt win the cup it will be an upset of epic proportions.Orange, I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it will be an upset of epic proportions if Colorado doesn't win the Cup this year.

Ottawa is stacked with good forwards and has a good blueline, their biggest question mark is in net with Lalime, he hasn't been that good this year and Senators fans want a new goalie.

New Jersey will always be tough because of their style. I don't think they have enough scoring this year and Stevens might be done for the season.

Philly is in the same boat as Ottawa, they are lacking in net. Colorado has never been able to win a series against a Hitchcock coached team, though he doesn't have a Belfour anymore.

Detroit either wins the Cup or flames out spectacularly. They have lost 4 playoff games in a row to lose a series in '03 (Anaheim), '01 (Los Angeles) '00 (Colorado, lost 4 out of 5, though), '99 (Colorado), '95 (New Jersey). 1996 was the only year that Detroit didn't fall apart completely in a playoff series losing effort. I have no idea what to expect from the Wings this year, they'll be tough if completely healthy.

Vancouver has improved their playoff results every year since 2001. I expect the same to continue and think they will end up in the Western Conference Finals, hopefully against the Avs. That would be a great series of wide-open, intense hockey.

All I know is that I'm not going to get my hopes up too much about the Avs winning the Cup until they do it again. It was crushing to see them choke away a certain championship in games 6 and 7 against Detroit in 2002. After Forsberg scored the overtime goal in game 5 I though for sure that the Avs were going to be back-to-back champs just like the Broncos. There was no way Carolina could beat Colorado that year.

[SoCalBronco]

Breck, our boy has been bought and paid for. Dont expect to see his name on a UM LOI on wednesday. I cant believe they cant catch this ****. This is ****ing illegal. Im just giving you a heads up now. At least Willie's heart was with us, but his family is poor and he didnt have a choice.

[Breck Bronc]

Breck, our boy has been bought and paid for. Dont expect to see his name on a UM LOI on wednesday. I cant believe they cant catch this ****. This is ****ing illegal. Im just giving you a heads up now. At least Willie's heart was with us, but his family is poor and he didnt have a choice.lol, socal, pm me the details if you can. That will suck if it's true, as we have no linebackers, literally.

[Pezman]

Whew, I'm back from night 1 of the back-to-back Avs games. Oh man! We sure blew that game tonight against the Kings... 3 damn minutes before the game was over and we blew it! Grrrrrr... I hate ties! The Duker lookes solid tonight as usual. Abey had an off night, must've been that crappy ice... All in all a decent game. A win would have been better but oh well
It's what happened in the stands was truly a wonderful experience that I'll never forget.

We ended up moving about 10 rows closer to sit with 3 Avs fans, who are all HUGE Avs fans who travel to watch the team for aproximately 25 away games every year.

What was so unique about it was that one of the kids does play-by-play as the game is going on for his father, who sits next to him. At first, the wifey and I were kinda bothered by it.
After the first timeout, I asked him why he does the play-by-play when his dad's right next to him. As it turns out, his father has been blind for over 20 years but loves the sounds of the game. He says that his son describes the game perfectly to him.
Needless to say, here I was, at a manly-type sporting event, all choked up by the inspiring thing that his son does for him. And the kid is pretty damn good too! He's no Peter McNabb but that kid has got some real talent folks.
The best part is when there is a scrum or cross-check, the father jumps up out of his seat and berates the opposing player!!! Great stuff.

After the game was over, we got their names and a picture with them. I sure hope that I have the pleasure of sitting with them again someday!

Go AVS!

[Swedish Extrovert]

I hate ties becaus of games like these.

Midway through the overtme, I said to my self, I would rather lose than tie.

[Tredici]

Nice story Pezman.

[BlueDamsel]

But that was a beautiful goal by Hejduk! :)

[orange 4 life]

man, awesome story pez!!
i tried to rep you but it wont let me. guess i need to spread some out because stories like that are what makes sports more than just a game.

to breck, i see your point.
the waxing at the hands of detroit still stings. i too thought we had it all but wrapped up after game 5.
last year stings also, as that series couldve EASILY gone our way.

the thing is though, dont we ALL agree that this team is better than those teams?

going in, i knew some people who had goalie concerns, and my response was to say with the offense we should generate combined with THREE star defensemen in blake, foote, and morris i thought we would be AT LEAST as good as the '01 team.
considering the play of aebi i think its not a stretch to say this team is better, and possibly much better.

i dont pay as much attention to the east so ill rely on comments from you guys but do you really see ottowa or new jersey taking us in the finals?

as for the west, i would be mildly shocked if detroit can pull it off. its just too long of a playoff season. vancouver is scary, but id still probably pick avs in 6.

maybe it wouldnt be a meltdown of EPIC proprtions, but it would be an upset for sure. the only way i see us going down is if we suffer moderate to major net minding problems. aebi in the playoffs with all the pressure on his shoulders is really my only question mark. should he respond well, i would expect another cup.

am i being too homer?

jake

[Tredici]

The Sens are legit.

[bronco militia]

for amesj.....

Penguins to demote Fleury
By News Wire Reports
January 30, 2004

Pittsburgh Penguins goalie Marc-Andre Fleury, the No. 1 pick in the June draft, will return to his junior team in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.

The move, announced Thursday, comes several days after the Penguins signaled they had no plans to send Fleury back to juniors in the near future.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/avalanche/article/0,1299,DRMN_39_2616217,00.html

[Tredici]

It's sad. Fluery's salary is structured around games played. When they can't afford him he goes back to the minors...

[alkemical]

Look i brought up the lindros argument because it is pretty much the same, if lindros is healthy he's bonafide good, same way with forsberg - If they could play more than half a season - they'd be down right dominant.

You guys want to talk about longevity, etc - that's what part of being an all time great is - Shiate, if jagr had any motivation he'd still be considered "Best in the world" - but the fact is between health and heart that's when you find out who is the best in the world.

It's like if mario could play a whole season, he could probably be in top 5 in scoring -

But being homers you guys can't see past your own myopia -

Call me when you learn more about hockey and just didn't start watching it when the avs showed up in town.

[Pezman]

OK, that does it. I'm never going to another Avs away game here in SoCal again. 0-1-1 for the trip. I had a blast though.

I can't believe of all the people to get a score it had to be Federov. That pr*ck! Everyone in my box were Ducks fans too... Oh well. I guess I better take in a home game from now on.

GO AVS!

[Tredici]

Look i brought up the lindros argument because it is pretty much the same, if lindros is healthy he's bonafide good, same way with forsberg - If they could play more than half a season - they'd be down right dominant.

You guys want to talk about longevity, etc - that's what part of being an all time great is - Shiate, if jagr had any motivation he'd still be considered "Best in the world" - but the fact is between health and heart that's when you find out who is the best in the world.

It's like if mario could play a whole season, he could probably be in top 5 in scoring -

But being homers you guys can't see past your own myopia -

Call me when you learn more about hockey and just didn't start watching it when the avs showed up in town.

Well that's a nice indignant little post and all that Josh, but I think you are losing track of one thing. Right now (and arguably for the last season) Peter Forsberg IS the best all around hockey player, not in the league, but in the world. Is he injured? Yes? You know why? The same reason Mario chose to walk away. Because of all the crap that goes on which is never called. Clutch, grab, hit, trip, slash. Players of that caliber take triple doses all the time. Good grief. A ruptured spleen should happen in a car wreck, not in a hockey game. And sorry. The best thing that ever happened is Lindpuss being too good to play in Canada. He is not the skater Peter is, he can't hold the puck the way Peter does, he cannot dominate a game the same way. Even before he became glasshead. Is he skilled? Certainly. Given a choice which one would GM's take when both are healthy? I think we both know.

During his prime Mario was the best. Nobody touched The Great Gretzsky. Now no one comes close to having the skills Forsberg does. If you can't see that then I would say it is your prejudice getting in the way. Not myopic homerism.

[orange 4 life]

OK, that does it. I'm never going to another Avs away game here in SoCal again. 0-1-1 for the trip. I had a blast though.

I can't believe of all the people to get a score it had to be Federov. That pr*ck! Everyone in my box were Ducks fans too... Oh well. I guess I better take in a home game from now on.

GO AVS!

my father was at that game also.
way to represent in socal.
also, probably just a typo on your part, but we went 0-0-1-1.
at least got a point in each game.

jake

[Hercules Rockefeller]

The best thing that ever happened is Lindpuss being too good to play in Canada.

What do you know, an Avs fan ripping the player who built their franchise. Good thing "Lindpuss" refused to play for the Nords, or the Avs would never be what they are today.

[-Slap-]

What do you know, an Avs fan ripping the player who built their franchise. Good thing "Lindpuss" refused to play for the Nords, or the Avs would never be what they are today.
Here's you, Eric!

:cheers:

Take a bow, you daddy's boy prima donna with a glass head.

I loved the nickname when he came out: The Next One. Gretzky was the Great One, so Lindros would be the Next One. Man, all these years later, it still makes me laugh.

What happened to the Next One, the one time he got a chance at the Cup? The Flyers were 2-1 favorites over the Red Wings and they got their asses swept. Vladimir Konstantinov made a fool out of Lindros all series long.

As if that wasn't bad enough, after the games Lindros kept ducking out of the lockerroom without talking to reporters. Rod Brind'Amour had to stand in and answer all the "where's Eric" questions. It was quite disgraceful. They should take torn the C of Eric's sweater after that gutless display.

[alkemical]

Without lindros the flyers would have never made it to the cup - period. Also if you would happen to know, i used to think lindros was a puss too - until i got into the story of how bobby clarke royally screwed him over. Having the team doctors clear him, when 2 head dr.'s told him that he should sit - then having bobbly clarke tell the media that lindros has no heart because he won't play hurt.

Yeah hindsight is funny - but lindros still is good, and what player didn't vlad the implaler make into pudding in his heyday (he was one of my favs, even though his career ended because of a dumbass drunk) -

Honestly - if i were building a team - i'd take todd bertuzzi over lindress or forsberg. Maybe even Keith Ktachuck -

I do know one thing, my pens will be able to draft and not-resign that russian olvecheckin (i can't spell his name, but he gets all the good press right now) -


but some things for you guys -

The caps are unloading, gonchar, kolzig - and a few other players too - i think 4 total (after jagr - i have the TSN article with it listed) -

Since you are in the west burke might be too much to get, i think burke might go to philly - his second time around -

I doubt that calgary will give up kiprisoff, and i don't think vancouver is going to give up Moose (hedberg) - hey he got my sorry pens to one game of the finals.

I used to think detroit would just go in the crapper when all their guys got old, but then they turn up zetterburg, datsyk - they have legace still - I know a few of their key grinders are still pretty young -

The sharks are wierd, you never know if they are going to be up or down -

The ducks are just done - i don't know if they can relcaim their trip without some miracle goaltending -

NJ is the favorite in the east - Just too solid, losing scott stevens would be a blow - but he's not their best D anymore - To at least fill for stevens - i'd try to get colin white from the caps - he's not stevens, but he's so solid -

NYR - LOL

ATL - feel good story of the year - Kovalchuk is just awesome - hartley continues his good coaching - i saw him coach hershey to the calder cup -

Philly - need we say more, what philly team can win ANYTHING

boston could be ok, but they need thorton to play like he can - he could be all world if he figures the game out right...

with vancouver - the best thing they got, honestly is their D - all big guys who can move, pass, hit and score -

Dallas is going no where -

detroit/colo - they each have minor issues - but both are cup contenders -

[Hercules Rockefeller]

The caps are unloading, gonchar, kolzig - and a few other players too - i think 4 total (after jagr - i have the TSN article with it listed) -


They haven't completely decided what they'll do yet, since the only person they had to move was Jagr to create some payroll flexibility. It's not a firesale, so no one's getting moved for dimes on the dollar. Kolzig will be the first to go, then Lang, Gonchar only if someone gives them a king's ransom, and Bondra leaves only if he assents to being traded. Carter could be moved too and if Nylander ever gets healthy, the same with him.

[Tredici]

. Good thing "Lindpuss" refused to play for the Nords, or the Avs would never be what they are today.

Gee... that's exactly what I thought I said.....

And Lindpuss is an old nickname. Sorry if it ruffled your feathers.

Josh - nobody is going to give Booby Clark any medals. But I also think you need to check into how much Eric's Dad interfered with his career. Especially considering his brother was already known to be concussion prone.

[Pezman]

my father was at that game also.
way to represent in socal.
also, probably just a typo on your part, but we went 0-0-1-1.
at least got a point in each game.

jake

Yeah, I keep forgetting that it was an OT loss... funny though, those "fans" in Anaheim sure can get ruthless.. oh well, it was their backyard. Quack!

[Mtbrncofn]

Call me when you learn more about hockey and just didn't start watching it when the avs showed up in town.

You know with all the bitchin about how hockey has a small fan base, and other sh*t....its comments like this that don't help. Having the Nords move to Denver probably brought a helluva lot more fans to the sport.


_____
On another note...a dreary one.....that game last night was the absolute worst game I have seen called in a long time. Those refs and linesmen should be fired! Some of our boys are damn lucky they didn't come out with some serious injuries. That sh*t is why the people get hurt and can't play out their careers. Ridiculous.

[Clockwork Orange]

Here's you, Eric!

:cheers:

Take a bow, you daddy's boy prima donna with a glass head.

I loved the nickname when he came out: The Next One. Gretzky was the Great One, so Lindros would be the Next One. Man, all these years later, it still makes me laugh.

What happened to the Next One, the one time he got a chance at the Cup? The Flyers were 2-1 favorites over the Red Wings and they got their asses swept. Vladimir Konstantinov made a fool out of Lindros all series long.

As if that wasn't bad enough, after the games Lindros kept ducking out of the lockerroom without talking to reporters. Rod Brind'Amour had to stand in and answer all the "where's Eric" questions. It was quite disgraceful. They should take torn the C of Eric's sweater after that gutless display.

How very true. I remember those '97 Finals well, the Flyers were outplayed, outclassed, outeverythinged by the Wings. The series ended 4-0 and it wasn't even that close. Lindros managed one goal in the series, a meaningless goal in the final seconds of game 4.

Lindros was never a leader, still isn't. Just because a team slaps the C on a guys sweater doesn't automatically make him Steve Yzerman or Ray Bourque in terms of leadership. Hell, Alexei Yashin (one of the most selfish, me-first players in sports) wore the C for Ottawa before they finally stripped him of it after his 3rd holdout.

Was Lindros talented? Absolutely. Was he dominant? Definitely. Was he immature? No question. Has he grown up? Hard to tell. His attempts to dictate where he plays and who he plays for go all the way back to his junior days. He was originally slated to play for Sault Ste Marie, but he didn't want to play there and forced a trade to Oshawa. He didn't want to play for Quebec so he forced a trade to Philadelphia. He didn't want to play for Philadelphia anymore and tried to force them to trade him only to Toronto (the only place he was willing to go at the time, but unfortunately for him, Bobby Calrke is a big a prick as he is and wouldn't give him what he wanted).

It's hard to feel sorry for someone with that kind of track record. Then the concussions started and the Lindros we see now is a shadow of who he used to be.

Peter Forsberg on the other hand, since this discussion has been focused on these two, is as dominant (if not more) than he was before he started having injury problems. He's had major shoulder surgery, his spleen removed, multiple procedures on both ankles (which is where his regular season hiatus of 2001-02 began), foot surgery, concussions and now a lingering groin problem that cost him about 2 months of this season. Yet he continues to perform at an elite level night in and night out.

I don't want to get into a big compare and contrast deal over this, there's plenty of subjective arguments that could go either way. But these two will always be linked by "the trade."

You'll never hear me complain about it, but I bet you could find a few Philly fans (in fact I know a few personally) who will.

[Clockwork Orange]

Oh, what the hell, let's compare and contrast anyway. Just the facts.

Eric Lindros

Regular Season
Games: 678
Goals: 356
Assists: 461
Points: 817
+/-: +219
Points per game: 1.21

Playoffs
Games: 50
Goals: 24
Assists: 33
Points: 57
Points per game: 1.14

Awards & Accomplishments
1 Hart Trophy (1995)
1 Pearson Award (1995)
1 First Team NHL All-Star (1995)
1 Olympic Gold Medal (2002)
Played in the All-Star game 5 times

Peter Forsberg

Regular Season
Games: 567
Goals: 213
Assists: 516
Points: 729
+/-: +203
Points per game: 1.29

Playoffs
Games: 122
Goals: 53
Assists: 90
Points: 143
Points per game: 1.17

Awards and accomplishments

1 Hart Trophy (2003)
1 Art Ross Trophy (2003)
1 Calder Trophy (1995)
3 NHL First Team All-Star (1998, 1999, 2003)
2 Stanley Cups
1 Olympic Gold Medal (1994)
Played in the All-Star game 5 times

Both very impressive to say the least.

[Swedish Extrovert]

Not to mention that Forsberg is much better defensivley.

[bronco militia]

Look i brought up the lindros argument because it is pretty much the same, if lindros is healthy he's bonafide good, same way with forsberg - If they could play more than half a season - they'd be down right dominant.

You guys want to talk about longevity, etc - that's what part of being an all time great is - Shiate, if jagr had any motivation he'd still be considered "Best in the world" - but the fact is between health and heart that's when you find out who is the best in the world.

It's like if mario could play a whole season, he could probably be in top 5 in scoring -

But being homers you guys can't see past your own myopia -

Call me when you learn more about hockey and just didn't start watching it when the avs showed up in town.

well damn...sounds like someone is suffering from a bad case of sandyvaginitis :poke:

relax dude, it's all good.....

"Call me when you learn more about hockey and just didn't start watching it when the avs showed up in town"

ummmm that line is getting really old.....say, about 10
years 9 division titles and two stanley cups old.

[Tredici]

Not to mention some of us were season ticket holders for Colorado Rockie HOCKEY.

[Swedish Extrovert]

Peter Forsberg is tha best, when healthy.

I held seaon tickets for the year the Denver Grizlies played here. Hands down the most excited I got about a minor league team in any sport.

When they won the championship I considered it the first championshipe in Denver. No one cared. In fact, I would be hard pressed to find a person in Denver that remmembers the Grizlies.

In fact, I was at a rockies game when the Grizzlies won it all - one of the first games at Coors Field.

When I heard that Denver was getting a hockey team, I was elated. When I heard it was the Nordiques that were coming to Denver, I wasnt elated so much. I thought they sucked, had bad management, and werent going anywhere. Now they are the Av's, a very impressive hockey team. A mighty good crow I ate back in 1996.

I should've got season tickets back then, cause I can afford them now, but they are impossible to get a hold of.

[Ugly man]

"Four players I would like to step it up a bit are Skoula, Morris, Selanne, and Kariya."

Marty is Marty. Morris is a big disappointment right now. Who'd have thought he'd be playing worse this year than last year. I don't think he's been horrible...but he has regressed a bit. There's still time...I think he'll be alright. Selanne has had some bad luck...pucks bouncing over his stick...etc...He's the type of guy that one goal could lead to a huge streak. His numbers are better than Konowalchuk's...including +/-...I know Granato is getting impatient...but I really think the combination is Sakic/Kariya/Selanne...They haven't really had any continuity there...Kariya is really starting to come on...he looks about 2-3 strides faster than everyone on the ice at times...I'd like to see Granato give them about two straight weeks to see if they can get it going. Obviously he can mix it up during a game a bit...I really don't see Selanne as a checking forward. Does anyone know how many games the second line has had together?

Thursday night should be tremendous.

[Clockwork Orange]

Kariya still looks tentative with his shot, the lingering effects from the two wrist injuries earlier this season. Derek Morris hasn't put up the offensive numbers this year, but I'm not worried about him, his defensive game has been solid. This guy is our future #1 defenseman after Blake & Foote have retired. Selanne has been snakebit and his numbers are down, but I like the fact that he keeps working hard. Martin Skoula......I expect nothing from him and I receive it in abundance.

No worries from me, there's something this lineup has that they haven't had for a few years. Depth. If the right don't get you, the left one will. Kariya & Selanne will be big for the Avs come playoff time, if for nothing else their ability to draw defenders attention from the likes of Sakic and others. If one or both of them gets hot, look out.

[Mtbrncofn]

I can't wait for Thursday....makes me nervous thinking about it already. I sure hope Foote is back for that, and everyone else decides to bring their A game. Dead Things are the Fade of the NHL for me....as I'm sure it is with most Avs fans.

Aebi looked outstanding tonite. Just one more game before the ASG but man its a big one. They played a lot of games in this last stretch, and they deserve the break....specially with that franchise record breaking points and wins month.

[alkemical]

Wings rule!

[orange 4 life]

Wings rule!

we'll see about that come playoff time.
personally, i think the geriatric crew will make another hasty exit.

[Clockwork Orange]

Wings rule!

How 'bout them Penguins? They unload the rest of their players who're making above the league minimum yet? ;)

[Meck77]

http://www.nhl.com/onthefly/scoreboard/htmlreports/GS040054.HTM

Joe Sakic has the hat trick!!!!!!!!!! But the west still trails in the NHL All-star game.

[Clockwork Orange]

Another fitting honor for one of the most classy & humble superstars the NHL has ever seen.

Joe Sakic has been the league MVP.
He's been the playoffs MVP.
He's been the Olympic Tournament MVP.
Now he's the All-Star Game MVP.

Just one more thing for a first ballot Hall Of Fame resume. Couldn't happen to a better guy.

http://adamwlad.321webmaster.com/images/sakic.jpg

[Spider]

He is that damn good

[Swedish Extrovert]

I've always said he is overrated. I have never respected Sakic like I have this year. i still think Peter Forsberg is better, but Sakic is awesome.

A lot of people think he is the best in the NHL right now.

The thing about Sakic is that he is a true goal scorer. Thats what he does. But there is a reason that he is Captain - he scores goals because he can. I remmember when we were playing the Canucks once, and Skrastins dropped his stick in the offensive zone (shorthanded) and Vancouver took it in on the PP. Sakic handed him his stick (Sakic cant play defense like a lot of other players), but it ended up being Sakic who kicked the puck out with his skate.

Im happy he got this award. Great guy.

[Tredici]

If you've always said Sakic is over rated then you've never understood his game.

[Swedish Extrovert]

I totally unerstand his game.

He is a quiet goal scorer and a leader.

But, Forsberg is a better all-around player.

[Tredici]

No doubt. But nobody compares to Peter. A few up and coming youngsters will give it a go.

[Rock Chalk]

I compare to Peter! Im definately better looking, have all my teeth and can count past a hat trick ;D

[Mtbrncofn]

Hey! Peter has all his teeth, and a damn nice set of them too!

Smurf.....are you delusional?...Sakic and overrated fit about as well as Raiders and Superbowl champs. Joe is one of the best in the league, and one of the classiest, underrated as well. Him and Lady Byng go well together. Him and the All Star MVP do also. I was scared all those Minnesota fans were gonna get on there and vote Rolo in. He did have some pretty good goaltending in that period.

On another note, I thought for sure Blake was in for hardest shot, and he actually turned in one of the slowest. Oh well, I guess. I gotta say, I love to watch Martin St. Louis. Man, that guy can fly!

[Clockwork Orange]

I totally unerstand his game.

He is a quiet goal scorer and a leader.

But, Forsberg is a better all-around player.

I'll agree with a couple of things you said. Forsberg is the better all-around player, even Sakic has said so (Sakic calls Forsberg "the best player in the world"). Sakic is a leader, one of the best captains in the NHL and has been for over a decade.

But I don't see how he can be classified as a "quiet goal scorer." Sakic is the only player in franchise history to eclipse the 500 goal plateau in his career and was the only Avalanche player to eclipse 50 goals in a season (51 in 1995-96 and 54 in 2000-01, Michel Goulet did it when the team was in Quebec) until Milan Hejduk did it last year. He also holds the NHL playoff record for game winning goals in one playoff year and has been the playoffs leading scorer twice ('96 & '01). The only thing quiet about him is his demeanor.

As for him being overrated, who overrates him? The media? The ones who nicknamed him "Quoteless Joe" and constantly remark on his lack of anything colorful to say? The fans? The ones who overlook his brilliance semi-frequently due to the fact that he plays on the same team as the best player in the world.....and up until last season played on the same team as the geratest goaltender of all-time? If anything I believe that Sakic has been underrated and underappreciated for a long time. At least here in Colorado he has.

As for the comment about him being unable to play defense like a lot of other players, Sakic was once a finalist for the Selke Trophy, awarded annually to the leagues best defensive forward. He can play and play well in all three zones.

Perhaps it won't be until he retires that people will finally realize how fortunate we've been to have Sakic on our squad for all of these years.

[-Slap-]

Hey! Peter has all his teeth, and a damn nice set of them too!

Smurf.....are you delusional?...Sakic and overrated fit about as well as Raiders and Superbowl champs. Joe is one of the best in the league, and one of the classiest, underrated as well. Him and Lady Byng go well together. Him and the All Star MVP do also. I was scared all those Minnesota fans were gonna get on there and vote Rolo in. He did have some pretty good goaltending in that period.

On another note, I thought for sure Blake was in for hardest shot, and he actually turned in one of the slowest. Oh well, I guess. I gotta say, I love to watch Martin St. Louis. Man, that guy can fly!
They list St Louis at 5'9". I think about 5'4" is more likely. He's fun to watch, though.

I would have probably become an Avs fan, but I started rooting for the Wings before the move from Quebec to Colorado. I've always been a Joe Sakic fan, even during the hottest part of the rivalry back in 96-97. I've always respected Forsberg, too. Clod and Keane were the two I hated the most from that era.

[bronco militia]

more hardware for Super Joe...

http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/nhl/2004/0208/photo/g_sakic_il.jpg

[alkemical]

How 'bout them Penguins? They unload the rest of their players who're making above the league minimum yet? ;)

It's part of our plan, we got a future start at G, and we are suckin so we can get that alex ovecheckin guy in russia - two pieces to the new dynasty!

[Clockwork Orange]

Not a bad plan, from all reports I've read Ovechkin is Kovalchuk without the attitude.

I sincerely hope he lands in Pittsburgh, perhaps he can save the franchise the way Mario did......the first time.

[bendog]

Wonder what Stan will put on his new tv network to fill time other than the avs and nuggs?

[bronco militia]

Wonder what Stan will put on his new tv network to fill time other than the avs and nuggs?


The network will carry 65 Colorado Avalanche hockey games, 65 Denver Nuggets basketball games, eight Colorado Mammoth lacrosse games and any pre- or postseason contests. Including entertainment and regional sports, the network plans to carry more than 200 live contests and events in its first year, beginning in September.

The as-yet unnamed network could cost tens of millions of dollars to launch, according to industry analysts. Kroenke officials declined to give an estimate.

The move ends a seven-year relationship with Fox Sports Net Rocky Mountain, which had paid more than $100 million to televise games of the Avalanche and Nuggets, teams that Kroenke owns...........

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~76~1946030,00.html

[bendog]

STan's up to something else. Sure he can sell advertising for the nuggs and avs, but 200 events won't fill the slots. And the cable/sat has to pay him for the rights. How much will they pay for 130 games, and how much will that cost fans? Guy's a shark. Even Steinbrenner sells to a local outlet.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I'll bet you see the Rapids move over there when their deal w/ Fox Sports is done. CC hockey and DU sports, and maybe some AF stuff as well eventually.

[Swedish Extrovert]

Wait, where will the Avs end up next year? (on TV) assuming there isnt a blackout.

[bronco militia]

ESPN: COL@STL Thu., 7:30 PM ET
ABC: COL@DET Sat., 3:00 PM ET


ESPN.com news services

Blake
Colorado Avalanche defenseman Rob Blake will be out indefinitely with a hairline fracture in his left leg, the team announced on Monday.


Blake, who participated in the SuperSkills Competition and the All-Star Game during the weekend, underwent an exam on Monday which revealed the injury. Blake told reporters he had taken several shots in the leg the last few weeks but didn't know if the injury was a result of a single incident or a cumulative affect.


Blake said a time frame for his return likely will be established in another week. He does not expect to miss the rest of the season.


With Blake out, the Avalanche recalled defenseman Brett Clark from Hershey.

[Tredici]

Great. Just Great.

Here comes always an adventure Skoula.

[bendog]

Cool, I love Sat afternoon games. I save up all of the stuff I have to iron for Mrs Dog and Little Girl Dog, and my shirts and khakis, and iron while I drink beer and watch tv.

[Tredici]

The things you learn in this forum...

[Pezman]

Talk about the Good, bad and ugly.
I admit, I was excited when I found out the Hasek was out for the rest of the year with a groin injury. I guess the injury karma kicked in when Blake broke the leg.

Ugh, that injury will be the toughest to heal from. He won't be seeing action for quite a while. What are they saying in Denver about it?

[Swedish Extrovert]

Blake played in the all-star game.

Weird.

Oh well, if it says he'll be out for 2 weeks, I believe he'll be out for two weeks.

Blake is our best player next to Forsberg.

[bronco militia]

Cool, I love Sat afternoon games. I save up all of the stuff I have to iron for Mrs Dog and Little Girl Dog, and my shirts and khakis, and iron while I drink beer and watch tv.

lmao!!!! Hilarious!

what!?!?!?!, your not going to spend the day kissing Mrs. Dogs ass all day...(Hint, it's Valentines day)

[alkemical]

Kovalchuk is doing ok this year, and he's stepped up to be a leader, so i don't know much about personality problems there....

Sorry bout blake guys, i know Red wings get hatcher back in a month or so.

[bronco militia]

Sorry bout blake guys, i know Red wings get hatcher back in a month or so.

good... there's still time for someone to finish him off before the playoffs. :redpunch: :cuss:

[alkemical]

was that you that just made the karma joke about happy that hasek is out, but now blake is hurt....

don't do that ya know ;)

[Tredici]

The Season: Colorado Avalanche debuts Thursday

NEW YORK (Feb. 10, 2004) -- ESPN'S Original Entertainment (EOE) series, The Season - a reality-based program on athletes and teams - will present part one of a two-part look at the National Hockey League's Colorado Avalanche this Thursday, Feb. 12 at 10 p.m. (ET) on ESPN immediately following Thursday Night Hockey (Colorado at St. Louis or Philadelphia Flyers at New York Rangers, 7:30 p.m. ET).

Hosted by avid hockey fan James Hetfield, lead singer of the heavy metal band Metallica, the nation will get an inside look at one of the NHL's perennial winners, which boasts numerous world-class players including recently named NHL All-Star Most Valuable Player, forward Joe Sakic. The two-time Stanley Cup Champion Avalanche (1996, 2001), who currently lead the NHL with 73 points, won its NHL-record ninth consecutive divisional title last season and has appeared in six conference championship series since 1995.

Produced in conjunction with NHL Productions, the documentary style show will give viewers two one-hour episodes of behind-the-scenes access to the Avalanche as the team practices, competes and lives away from the rink. Part one will capture the team's training camp through the NHL All-Star break, while part two will air Thursday, May 6 at 7:30 p.m. (ET), documenting the second half of the season.

Some highlights of The Season: Colorado Avalanche Part One include:

Coverage of training camp featuring the additions of Paul Kariya and Teemu Selanne
Coverage of the team's meetings, locker rooms and charter flights
Exclusive on-ice audio featuring Joe Sakic, Adam Foote, Derek Morris, Alex Tanguay and Peter Worrell
Access inside the home of Steve Konowalchuk as he prepares to leave Washington for his new Avalanche team
A unique look at Patrick Roy Night at Pepsi Center on Oct. 28th
A night with the team at the club's Halloween Party
Interviews with president and general manager Pierre Lacroix, coach Tony Granato, captain Joe Sakic and players Adam Foote, Paul Kariya and Peter Worrell

The Avalanche entered the 2003-04 season with last year's NHL point leader and most valuable player in Peter Forsberg, as well as leading goal scorer in Milan Hejduk. Colorado signed free agents Teemu Selanne and Paul Kariya during the off-season after the former Anaheim dynamic scoring duo approached the team. Known for developing their draft selections into high-caliber NHL players, the Avs have four rookies on this year's 23-man roster: NHL YoungStars Most Valuable Player goaltender Philipe Sauve (#38 overall, 1998), forwards Cody McCormick (#144 overall, 2001) and Marek Svatos (#227 overall, 2001), and defenseman John-Michael Liles (#159 overall, 2001). The Season cameras also will offer viewers unprecedented access to coach Tony Granato as he guides one of the best lineups in the NHL.

Bonus air dates for part one include: Monday, Feb. 16 (ESPN2, 1 p.m. ET), Tuesday, Feb. 17 (ESPN, 4 a.m. ET) and Monday, May 10 (ESPN, 3 p.m. ET).

[Clockwork Orange]

According to Tony Granato during the pre-game interview last night, the Avs hope to have Blake back in 7-10 days. It's a hairline fracture of the fibula, an injury he's been playing through since it occured on January 26th in Pittsburgh. It certainly begs the question, why did he play in the All-Star game?

Either way, it isn't nearly as serious as was originally feared. I imagine we'll see him back in the Avs lineup in a couple of weeks.

[Swedish Extrovert]

Clockwork orange was such a terrible book.

[Clockwork Orange]

Malcom McDowell kicks ass.

I can't believe I changed the channel away from the Edmonton/Atlanta game before the brawl broke out. Every player on the ice went at it including the goaltenders, all of them got the gate for it. The Thrashers actually had to finish the last 1 minute 49 seconds of the game with 6 skaters on the ice and no goaltender in net because their starter had left due to injury earlier and the backup got ejected for fighting.

That's old time hockey right there. People can be PC and frown on it all they want, but I guarantee that the next meeting between these two teams gets double the ratings thanks to this melee.

[orange 4 life]

Malcom McDowell kicks ass.

I can't believe I changed the channel away from the Edmonton/Atlanta game before the brawl broke out. Every player on the ice went at it including the goaltenders, all of them got the gate for it. The Thrashers actually had to finish the last 1 minute 49 seconds of the game with 6 skaters on the ice and no goaltender in net because their starter had left due to injury earlier and the backup got ejected for fighting.

That's old time hockey right there. People can be PC and frown on it all they want, but I guarantee that the next meeting between these two teams gets double the ratings thanks to this melee.

I agree. im disappointed i missed it. hopefully i can see some highlights tonight. ill definately keep an eye out for their next meeting.

i love to watch two talented teams go at it without any fights, but i enjoy the old fashioned brawls just the same.

jake

[Ugly man]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1733260

Some pretty good quotes in this story.

"We just started wrestling around and I felt a little tug on the back of my jersey," said Bishai, playing just his fifth NHL game. "I don't know if one of their other guys pulled me in or something, but I ended up head over heels in their bench. I tried to get up as quick as I could. ...



"We just decided to keep her going."


"It's always fun," said Nurminen. "Just give a couple punches, take a couple punches, still alive."

Hah! Knuckleheads.

[Mtbrncofn]

Talk about the Good, bad and ugly.
I admit, I was excited when I found out the Hasek was out for the rest of the year with a groin injury. I guess the injury karma kicked in when Blake broke the leg.

Ugh, that injury will be the toughest to heal from. He won't be seeing action for quite a while. What are they saying in Denver about it?


Boy, Pez...I gotta admit, that same thing happened to me. I was sitting there in hysterics over Hasek when I heard Pang start yakkin about someone else, and then I heard...."this will really hurt the Avs". WHOA!! Hold the boat! Thankfully, it doesn't look like we will be missing him for too long.

On the upside.....more good news from Red Wing land.....Cujoke out for at least a week with his ankle. Now, that is funny.....until we lose another one. We smoked the Blues tonite, not that everyone else hasn't, but Aebi sure made some great saves. That was a tough game. How bout that tackle on Worrell?

Here's to a win on Saturday!! I've got this Red Wing fan over in Maniax that I have been going back and forth with, and I just dont know if I can take much more of his crap.

Oh yeah.....did you guys watch The Season? I thought it was great, of course I am biased.

And another oh yeah.....on an ouch note....did ya catch JR's broken jaw? Boy, that was not pleasant to see.

[Swedish Extrovert]

Yeah that jaw was horrible.

I watched the Season off and on, but I wanted to play my drums before it got to late.

[Mtbrncofn]

Malcom McDowell kicks ass.

I can't believe I changed the channel away from the Edmonton/Atlanta game before the brawl broke out. Every player on the ice went at it including the goaltenders, all of them got the gate for it. The Thrashers actually had to finish the last 1 minute 49 seconds of the game with 6 skaters on the ice and no goaltender in net because their starter had left due to injury earlier and the backup got ejected for fighting.

That's old time hockey right there. People can be PC and frown on it all they want, but I guarantee that the next meeting between these two teams gets double the ratings thanks to this melee.

Crap, I can't believe I missed this. I never even heard anything about it. I always miss the good stuff. For sure, Clock.....I for one, will be tuning in next time. ;)

[Ugly man]

Skoula was outstanding tonight. He played a physical game...and made some slick passes. Abby was nails. That glove save he made on a Blues powerplay was all world.

Worell did a nice job dissuading the Blues from gooning it up to much. He laid a pretty good beating on Low...some of those shots he landed were pretty friggin dead on. I think that's why Low jumped him from behind...he got his ass kicked...and the game was out of hand anyway. I loved how Danton wanted no part of McCormick...what a douche.

[Tredici]

Just as Roenick was recovering his face. Man, stopping a slapshot with your smile is a tough go.

The first few times Worrell took the ice in an Av's uni I was starting to hate him. As one announcer said, that penalty was just called because he's Worrell. Seems all he did was sit in the box while the other team scored. It appears Granato's got him playing to draw the penalty now. So maybe I won't have to be so frustrated with him.
That idiot jumping on him last night was a classic.

[orange 4 life]

Just as Roenick was recovering his face. Man, stopping a slapshot with your smile is a tough go.

The first few times Worrell took the ice in an Av's uni I was starting to hate him. As one announcer said, that penalty was just called because he's Worrell. Seems all he did was sit in the box while the other team scored. It appears Granato's got him playing to draw the penalty now. So maybe I won't have to be so frustrated with him.
That idiot jumping on him last night was a classic.

great game!!

"the season" after was also better than expected. it was so good in fact, that my wife even watched the last 10 or 15 minutes without complaining, and got a chuckle out of the banter between the guys. she felt bad for kariya.

as for the game, what can we say? it was well played on both ends of the ice, and once again aebi took it to the next level and showed what he is capable of. like ive said before, if he can continue to play solid and consistent in the playoffs, i see it taking a miracle to oust us.

worrell annoyed me a bit at first also, but i never gave up on him since i was one of the people that were so thrilled to have him. i think early on he was just trying to make his presence felt in any way, where now he's settled in and playing a little smarter. he drew a couple penalties late in that game that didnt make a huge difference at 4-0, but wouldve been HUGE in a 2-0 game.

also, a guy like him is something we've been missing since chris simon was in town. odgers was decent, but nothing special. parker was HUGE, but really couldnt play hockey.
a guy like worrell is something we've long needed, and its good to see him playing well.

.....now i want to play the blues again, because i want to see him beat the snot out of that classless chump low, who jumped him from behind.

jake

[Ugly man]

Yeah...Low jumping on his back really says a lot about how effective Worrell can be. Last year he even baited Mario Lemieux into a fight. I wasn't surprised Worrell wasn't what people expected early on. His knee kept him off the ice. There's also a huge adjusment to make moving from Florida to Denver.

I would liked to have seen McCormick pound on Danton for awhile. He's paid to be a pest, but I like it when guys like Danton and Sean Avery take a few mits to the head for their trouble. It was clear from the opening face off that the Blues wanted to mix it up a bit...unfortunately for them they're about as effective at that as they are at scoring goals. What the hell happened to Doug Weight?

[Tredici]

Don't know about Weight. He has always been one of my favorite hardnose players. Might be nursing some type of injury. You know how hockey guys won't admit to that. Mainly because they have to play with other guys who have sticks...

Sean Avery is a piece of work. I can understand mixing it up during the course of a game, but to take a punch at someone's head when they are down on the ice? Guy doesn't have much control.

BTW, that report released the other day on the financial state of the NHL was brutal. Not that it was unexpected. The only thing I dislike is confirming the league lost 300 Million and then the next sentence is - 75% of the revenues are going to the players.

Damn... well, I would rather hear them say there will have to be changes beyond the payroll. Contraction would be a start. When some teams started staying alive by living off new franchise fees it was only a matter of time until that house of cards crumbled.

[Swedish Extrovert]

Skoula was outstanding tonight. He played a physical game...and made some slick passes. Abby was nails. That glove save he made on a Blues powerplay was all world.

Worell did a nice job dissuading the Blues from gooning it up to much. He laid a pretty good beating on Low...some of those shots he landed were pretty friggin dead on. I think that's why Low jumped him from behind...he got his ass kicked...and the game was out of hand anyway. I loved how Danton wanted no part of McCormick...what a douche.


And how! What a physical game. I havent been following Skoula much this year, as I'm just glued to watching Forsberg everytime he hits the ice trying to get the most out of his last year.

But that was the first thing i thought tonight when I saw Skoula play. I thought, "Why do people consider this guy a bust, he's playing great." I guess he just had a good game.

Skoula did block that open-net shot for Tkchuck (sp hmmm... ). So I thought e played well.

Same with Worrell. I really like Worrell. He aint much handiling the puck, but he is that big physical prescence.

[-Slap-]

I'll bet Darren McCarty has a nice Valentine waiting for Adam Foote.

http://images.sportsline.com/u/ap/photos/DXA110020523_viewer.jpg

[Tredici]

What's he gonna do? Hit him with his chin?

Adam will just counter with his nose...

[Pezman]

Valentines Day Massacre 2004 in D-town tomorrow...
GO AVS!!!

I still can't believe that this team has only lost 1 regulation goal SINCE DECEMBER!
We just gotta get Vancouver to start laying down now. I sooooo don't want to play them in the second round if the standings remain the same.

What's the latest on Blake? The news here has been scarce on his injury.

[Clockwork Orange]

I'll bet Darren McCarty has a nice Valentine waiting for Adam Foote.

And Peter Worrell will have something special for McCarty. As will Chris McAllister and Jim Cummins. Exactly who can the Wings counter with?

The Wings don't have the muscle to get into a brawl with the Avalanche anymore. But I'd love to see them try, it's their funeral.

http://pics.forecaster.ca/nhl-player/0485.gif
Peter Worrell
6 ft. 6 in., 240 lbs.

Trust me, McCarty wants no part of Worrell......and that's exactly who he'll get if he decides he wants to take a run at Adam Foote.

[-Slap-]

So, you're saying Foote will hide?

Yeah, figure you're right about that. You would think he might want to own up to carving up our Captain's face with a minute left in the game. Worrell could spare Foote the indignity of shamelessly turtling like Clod, though. I guess we'll see how things shake out tomorrow.

[Clockwork Orange]

Now Slap, not even a Wings fan like yourself could possibly believe such a thing. Foote's been in plenty of scraps over the course of his career, he's never ran or turtled in his life.....he's not going to start now.

But should a mope like McCarty decide he wants to have a go with him, it's not at all out of the realm of possibility that Peter Worrell will want to address the issue with McCarty later. Which I'm certain McCarty will decline.

But if you want to talk about running, look back at what McCarty did over the years when challenged by true heavyweights from the Avalanche.....namely Francois Laroux and Scott Parker. McCarty made it clear that he wanted nothing to do with either of them. But yeah, he's such the warrior, I'm sure the entire Avalanche team is shaking in their skates at the thought of him. Please.

Oh yeah, and since you seem to still be under the delusion that Foote intentionally whacked Yzerman in the waning seconds of the game, here's a recent article from the Detroit Free Press on the matter.

----------------------------
Braces get captain straightened out

February 11, 2004





BY HELENE ST. JAMES
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER




Now appearing for the Red Wings: It's captain Metal Mouth.

Steve Yzerman showed up for Tuesday's practice complete with braces after spending most of the previous day at the dentist, getting his grin back on track. Yzerman lost one lower front tooth, and four other teeth were knocked back when he was whacked in the mouth last Thursday during a 3-2 overtime victory at Colorado.

Yzerman was injured with 1.6 seconds left in regulation when defenseman Adam Foote attempted to use his stick to lift Yzerman's stick and missed, hitting Yzerman. He needed stitches to close a cut across his upper lip, and spent the All-Star weekend break in pain because of the dislocated teeth.

"In general, I feel pretty good now," Yzerman said.

"Having these braces on, actually it feels a lot better. It's kind of stabilizing."

Yzerman's new look delighted his three daughters -- "they thought it was pretty neat," he said -- and aren't too bad to deal with. He can still eat solid foods, though he has to chew on one side of the mouth. The braces come off in six weeks.

Yzerman estimated he had lost six teeth in his career, though he said it could also be two. He was nowhere near as ambiguous when asked about Foote, who didn't get suspended.

"I didn't expect any suspension," Yzerman said. "I've done the exact same thing, try to lift a guy's stick and accidentally hit him in the face. Suspensions I think are for something premeditated, like purposely trying to do things wrong."

It helped that Foote expressed remorse as soon as it happened. "Right away, as soon as I got hit, he was like, 'Oh, God, sorry,' " Yzerman said.
-----------------------------------------

Gee Slap, it seems that Steve Yzerman himself disagrees with your assessment of the situation......especially since he admitted that he himself has done the exact same thing at times in his career. Accidents happen, there's no crying in hockey (unless you're lifting the Cup).

It appears that Foote has already "owned up to it" by immediatly apologizing to Yzerman after the high stick. So to treat this like anything resembling another Lemieux/Draper incident (for which Claude was completely wrong and should have at least apologized) is ridiculous.

[Pezman]

best quote ever was always... "I can't believe I shook his friggin hand" Kris Draper

Good ol Lemeiux. Man I sure wish he was there to taunt McCarty for the big game...

[Breck Bronc]

If I were Adam Foote today I would watch my back, literally. If McCarty wants to get Claude Lemeiux-style payback he'll try the same method and attack from behind, just like he did on March 26th, 1997. Even if attacked from the back Foote will not turtle, that's for sure.

[orange 4 life]

So, you're saying Foote will hide?

Yeah, figure you're right about that. You would think he might want to own up to carving up our Captain's face with a minute left in the game. Worrell could spare Foote the indignity of shamelessly turtling like Clod, though. I guess we'll see how things shake out tomorrow.

orange's post says it best.
kudo's to you orange. absolutely AMAZING post.

slap, come on man. you know the difference between deliberate and accidental.

....and also, i just had to express how COMPLETELY disgusted it makes me to see a bronco fan rooting for the wings. im glad i havent had breakfast yet because i'd be throwing it up!!!

jake

[alkemical]

Wings got Mcarty, Draper, Chelly is a tough guy too -

Avs fans... SHEESH! :)

[Spider]

today at 3:00 pm , the Avs face the Deadwi...errrr Red Wings .............

[alkemical]

that's like one of you avs fans saying that pronger isn't an elite d....

to me that should go in the hall of "what the hell did i just say out of my ass"

[Spider]

We Avs fans are a special group ........
Alot of us are getting the Same Passion for the Avs as we do the Broncos .......
I never diss the Rockies or Nuggies nor will I ever cheer against them , but I dont follow them ... I dont care for Baseball or Basketball .......

[Breck Bronc]

Wings got Mcarty, Draper, Chelly is a tough guy too -

Avs fans... SHEESH! :)
Draper ain't going to do anything to Worrell, McCallister, Cummins, or McCormick. Neither will Chelios. Come on, they're different types of players. Penguin fans :loopy: .

[Spider]

Way I see it is , the Avs owe the Deadwings an ass beating ........... Blake will be missed no question ........Avs will find away to cover him on PK ........

[orange 4 life]

We Avs fans are a special group ........
Alot of us are getting the Same Passion for the Avs as we do the Broncos .......
I never diss the Rockies or Nuggies nor will I ever cheer against them , but I dont follow them ... I dont care for Baseball or Basketball .......

the passion will NEVER equal or even approach that which i have for the broncos (and NOTHING will), but it has moved up the chain to be the second most important sports team.

ironically, as a former high school and college (briefly) player i enjoy the sport of basketball much more. basketball is a sport that i can watch ANY two teams at any level play and still enjoy the game, but i dont have one single team that is as important as the avs.
im a nuggets (of course) fan since birth, and a jazz fan since college (since a couple of them played with us occasionally due to the short distance between BYU (provo) and salt lake city)

while i cheer for and follow both teams, neither of them brings out as much passion or emotion as the avalanche do.

i remember being a kid and watching the kings with tiger williams and marcel dionne, but while i enjoyed the sport it never approached football, basketball, or even baseball.

when the avs came to town, i actually rooted AGAINST them the first year, because i didnt want the "first championship" in denver to be from a transplanted team, and at the time i still called them the deeks and refused to acknowledge their presence in colorado.

some time during the second year i softened a little. after the rivalry with detroit took center stage (or should i say ice?), i became intrigued from an us (denverites) against them (red wingers). i followed passively, got to know the players, became mildly supportive, and remember being upset when we (didnt say "we" then) lost to edmonton in the playoffs.

it was then i knew i would from then on fully support the team.
in '99 i watched most of the games, in '00 even more and was surprised to see how incredibly upset i was after we lost. in '01 i shed a tear or two watching borque hoist the cup, and it was in '02 that i realized just how much the team meant to me.

happiness and victory is WONDERFUL, but it took the game 7 drubbing against detroit to make me see that this was now the second most important team to me. its complete anger and sadness like that day that will make the next cup even sweeter than the last.

this year has been fun, and my hopes are higher than ever.

youre right spider, we as avs fans are a special group, and im proud to be a member.

jake

ps.- and red wings STILL suck!!!

*********

interesting that i just made that post, because my loyalties will be tested today.

avs/wings face off at 1:00, and the byu/wyoming game starts same time.

ill be watching the avs primarily, and will check on my boys in blue at commercials.

...we should mop the floor with the cowboys anyway, right spider?

[Spider]

Yep Jake ......Nothing will replace the Passion I have for the Broncos , but the Avs are a strong second ......

[orange 4 life]

Yep Jake ......Nothing will replace the Passion I have for the Broncos , but the Avs are a strong second ......

nice pic spider. that or something like it would be cool for an avatar!!

i wish i had the skills to make the cool stuff you do, but sadly im impressed just that i can figure out how to post on here.

i also cant do much in the way of avatar's, because every time i save a pic i like, the thing tells me its a "bitmap" image, instead of a "g.i.f." image, whatever the heck that means.

anyway, if it wouldnt take much time (because i really have no clue) it would be really cool to have an avalanche avatar. if you cant, i understand. thanks,

jake

[Spider]

nice pic spider. that or something like it would be cool for an avatar!!

i wish i had the skills to make the cool stuff you do, but sadly im impressed just that i can figure out how to post on here.

i also cant do much in the way of avatar's, because every time i save a pic i like, the thing tells me its a "bitmap" image, instead of a "g.i.f." image, whatever the heck that means.

anyway, if it wouldnt take much time (because i really have no clue) it would be really cool to have an avalanche avatar. if you cant, i understand. thanks,

jake
Hit the Pawn looking thing under my Name , that is for MSN Messenger , click on that , I will fix you up with whatever you want ..........

if you dont have MSN messenger , Pm me your Email I will Email you a Avitar , and if you have certian design or some pictures you want made , send them to me in a Email I will make it for you .................

[orange 4 life]

Hit the Pawn looking thing under my Name , that is for MSN Messenger , click on that , I will fix you up with whatever you want ..........

if you dont have MSN messenger , Pm me your Email I will Email you a Avitar , and if you have certian design or some pictures you want made , send them to me in a Email I will make it for you .................

pm coming. thanks brother!!

[Tredici]

I find the difference between watching football and hockey is this. Football can make you crazy. Hockey will drive you insane.

The guy I miss most in these time for Bedwings in their red jammies games is Hinote. He always knocks Cheliosaurus off his game and suckers him into a penalty or two.

[alkemical]

Come playoff time barring any further injuries to hatcher and if blake comes back ok - those two teams D will be tough as hell -

JR is out for philly but they don't do anything but embaress themselves (philly curse) - so out of the east - i'm going to have to go ott, tb, nj - with TB the top team in the east right now

[Swedish Extrovert]

Yep Jake ......Nothing will replace the Passion I have for the Broncos , but the Avs are a strong second ......

lol, Im the exact oppisite. The only sports team I like more than the Broncos are the Avalanche.

If Detroit wins in regulation, they take the #1 spot. They have one more win than us, but we still have a game at hand to catch up.

The OT loss rule saved our asses last year.

[Spider]

lol, Im the exact oppisite. The only sports team I like more than the Broncos are the Avalanche.

If Detroit wins in regulation, they take the #1 spot. They have one more win than us, but we still have a game at hand to catch up.

The OT loss rule saved our asses last year.
lol Bro ....... I do know that the Avs -Deadwings is some good hockey .......