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montrose
09-08-2010, 11:53 PM
Lions ball hawk Alphonso Smith has room to grow
Second-year CB has nose for interceptions
BY CARLOS MONARREZ

The Lions acquired second-year cornerback Alphonso Smith in a trade with Denver on Saturday. On Monday, one of the first things coach Jim Schwartz said he liked about Smith was his personality.

It wasn't hard to see why. Smith, a second-round pick from Wake Forest in 2009, fell out of favor with the Broncos after an unproductive rookie season. He could have angrily criticized the Broncos for discarding him. Instead, he said many factors played into the team forming a negative perception about him.

"Just the way that you carry yourself around the facility, the way you practice, the way you play, it's a lot of things that go into helping someone formulate a perception of you, perception that you really don't want to give off," he said. "Even if it wasn't the case, it's still a perception and you still give them room to make one. And that's what I did."

Smith led the nation with 15 interceptions his last two years at Wake Forest and holds the Atlantic Coast Conference record with 21 career picks. Ex-Lion Dré Bly had held the record.

"He's got a nose for the ball," Schwartz said. "I think one thing is when you look at DBs, interceptions are a little bit like sacks on the defensive line. You either have it or you don't. And he has the ability."

The Lions had their eye on Smith when he was in college. General manager Martin Mayhew believes Smith, 24, still can grow.
"A young guy with upside potential, had good college grades on him, he's worth a look as a developmental guy to try to bring along," Mayhew said. "He may give us more than just development, but a guy who definitely has ability, there's no question about that."

http://www.freep.com/article/20100907/SPORTS01/9070336/1433/New-Lions-cornerback-Smith-has-room-to-grow

Requiem
09-08-2010, 11:53 PM
b

*WARHORSE*
09-08-2010, 11:54 PM
.........is for apple.




And angry Broncos who want to kick off in Jaxsonvilles butt.

~Crash~
09-08-2010, 11:54 PM
c

Requiem
09-09-2010, 12:00 AM
Not as much as they like Eminem. Terrible thread.

~Crash~
09-09-2010, 12:04 AM
Lions ball hawk Alphonso Smith has room to grow
Second-year CB has nose for interceptions
BY CARLOS MONARREZ

The Lions acquired second-year cornerback Alphonso Smith in a trade with Denver on Saturday. On Monday, one of the first things coach Jim Schwartz said he liked about Smith was his personality.

It wasn't hard to see why. Smith, a second-round pick from Wake Forest in 2009, fell out of favor with the Broncos after an unproductive rookie season. He could have angrily criticized the Broncos for discarding him. Instead, he said many factors played into the team forming a negative perception about him.

"Just the way that you carry yourself around the facility, the way you practice, the way you play, it's a lot of things that go into helping someone formulate a perception of you, perception that you really don't want to give off," he said. "Even if it wasn't the case, it's still a perception and you still give them room to make one. And that's what I did."

Smith led the nation with 15 interceptions his last two years at Wake Forest and holds the Atlantic Coast Conference record with 21 career picks. Ex-Lion Dré Bly had held the record.

"He's got a nose for the ball," Schwartz said. "I think one thing is when you look at DBs, interceptions are a little bit like sacks on the defensive line. You either have it or you don't. And he has the ability."

The Lions had their eye on Smith when he was in college. General manager Martin Mayhew believes Smith, 24, still can grow.
"A young guy with upside potential, had good college grades on him, he's worth a look as a developmental guy to try to bring along," Mayhew said. "He may give us more than just development, but a guy who definitely has ability, there's no question about that."

http://www.freep.com/article/20100907/SPORTS01/9070336/1433/New-Lions-cornerback-Smith-has-room-to-grow

that is great the ****ers still own us a pick . hopefully it is a good one!!!!!

watermock
09-09-2010, 12:09 AM
I'm glad for the kittens.

Reavis Isle.

I.E. Glligan's isle, or we just gave up the #14 pick for a better Quinn.

Inkana7
09-09-2010, 12:23 AM
I'm glad for the kittens.

Reavis Isle.

I.E. Glligan's isle, or we just gave up the #14 pick for a better Quinn.
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8894/kaneklapqo6.gif

Houshyamama
09-09-2010, 12:25 AM
Fluff

Requiem
09-09-2010, 12:36 AM
that is great the ****ers still own us a pick . hopefully it is a good one!!!!!

Where does it say they owe us a pick?

watermock
09-09-2010, 01:53 AM
I can't wait to see what we get for the Quinn Twins.

Oakland is going to kick our ass.

FireFly
09-09-2010, 04:15 AM
what was the pick we received for him?

tsiguy96
09-09-2010, 04:19 AM
he knows he ****ed up in denver. he may light it up in detroit, but he knows he messed up here and it was too late to undo it.

BroncoBuff
09-09-2010, 05:20 AM
Like I've been saying, watch Alphonso and Jack Williams become the best CB tandem in the league :oyvey:

worm
09-09-2010, 05:21 AM
ball-hawk? college was a lifetime ago, kid.

Mediator12
09-09-2010, 06:14 AM
He is a ballhawk, but they used him differently in DEN than Wake ever did. That is why I can not see them giving up on a young CB so quickly. This kid has the ability to play man and Zone from his college tape, but they totally changed coverages on him last year and played him in the slot as well. Playing the slot WR is a hell of a lot more trying than playing outside in the NFL. Coaches like to use the Slot WR as their designated mismatch in 3 WR personnel and Smith was never comfortable playing there last year.


The speed of the game mentally is the hardest to adjust to in the NFL, and the Slot is the hardest place to Cover as you have no sideline to funnel WR's in man and the crossing routes in zone are well timed if you do not press off the LOS. It's a much different Skillset than playing and anticipating on the outside. That is where Smith was exceptional in college. He knew his coverages and forced WR's into routes he could cover and make a play. In the NFL, he had to be more physical and could not get force the issue to WR's who were much smarter and more physical than college.

Boomhauer
09-09-2010, 06:28 AM
http://mgmtnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/assets-images-gawker-2008-07-lowered-expectations.jpg

worm
09-09-2010, 07:07 AM
He is a ballhawk, but they used him differently in DEN than Wake ever did. That is why I can not see them giving up on a young CB so quickly. This kid has the ability to play man and Zone from his college tape, but they totally changed coverages on him last year and played him in the slot as well. Playing the slot WR is a hell of a lot more trying than playing outside in the NFL. Coaches like to use the Slot WR as their designated mismatch in 3 WR personnel and Smith was never comfortable playing there last year.


The speed of the game mentally is the hardest to adjust to in the NFL, and the Slot is the hardest place to Cover as you have no sideline to funnel WR's in man and the crossing routes in zone are well timed if you do not press off the LOS. It's a much different Skillset than playing and anticipating on the outside. That is where Smith was exceptional in college. He knew his coverages and forced WR's into routes he could cover and make a play. In the NFL, he had to be more physical and could not get force the issue to WR's who were much smarter and more physical than college.

Actually agree with this assessment Med (much more than I ever did with your Karl take :)

Smith HAD a nose for the ball at WF for the reasons you mentioned. He was able to dictate, required the WR to adjust and he capitalized.

I agree that the size\speed ratio for a WR on the outside in the Pros is a tough matchup for Smith to overcome. Even with his above average man coverage skillset.

I don't fault the Broncos for trying him out in the slot. That is were I think he needs to play to be successful on THIS level.

However if their intent was to play him in the slot all along, then I definately do not like the value of the draft pick. I also don't like that they gave up on him this early but understand that their hand was forced based on the competion at the position. I also wouldn't describe him as a 'ballhawk' anymore until he proves it in the pros. What he did in college means about as much right now as what he did in high school.

oubronco
09-09-2010, 07:09 AM
He's a developmental guy who has potential.........isn't every young guy like that

CEH
09-09-2010, 07:22 AM
In reality , most NFL teams make the right decision when it comes to releasing a player due to talent/effort/intelligence issues (pick 1 , 2 or all 3).
It's really the fans who get most upset but again they are not in the room day in and day out. Sure there are exceptions to the rule but for the most part the team is right

Didin't we read this same type of article two months ago.

Time to move on . Hope he performs well but history is on the side of the Denver Broncos in this case

Baba Booey
09-09-2010, 07:26 AM
Well Christ, what else is Detroit going to say about him?

"Damn that new corner we got from Denver really does suck."

watermock
09-09-2010, 07:40 AM
Fonz is just 1 of many odd /reach picks. It's not just Fonz, it's that we dumped half our ofense for reaches like Quinn and Slomoreno.

Shanny had is share but that seemed solved with he Goodmans.

watermock
09-09-2010, 07:44 AM
Well Christ, what else is Detroit going to say about him?

"Damn that new corner we got from Denver really does suck."

Good thing they didn't give up the #14 pick or heads would roll.

(insert Bang toon here)

boppool
09-09-2010, 08:00 AM
We got him at a price of a first round pick. They got him for a bag of peanuts.

Why wouldn't they be excited about this?

Cito Pelon
09-09-2010, 08:01 AM
Denver's staff had to make a tough choice btwn compararably skilled CB's. And Phonz was partly drafted as a return man, correct? But didn't stand out returning, whereas both Cox and Syd have looked skillful as returners.

I can see the point about Smith being better suited to the outside, I've made the same point in the past. For whatever reason, the staff didn't like him there. Donatell is a pretty accomplished secondary coach and coached Smith his whole time in the NFL.

And Smith pretty much said he tanked under the pressure in Denver.

Mediator12
09-09-2010, 08:04 AM
Actually agree with this assessment Med (much more than I ever did with your Karl take :)

Smith HAD a nose for the ball at WF for the reasons you mentioned. He was able to dictate, required the WR to adjust and he capitalized.

I agree that the size\speed ratio for a WR on the outside in the Pros is a tough matchup for Smith to overcome. Even with his above average man coverage skillset.

I don't fault the Broncos for trying him out in the slot. That is were I think he needs to play to be successful on THIS level.

However if their intent was to play him in the slot all along, then I definately do not like the value of the draft pick. I also don't like that they gave up on him this early but understand that their hand was forced based on the competion at the position. I also wouldn't describe him as a 'ballhawk' anymore until he proves it in the pros. What he did in college means about as much right now as what he did in high school.

Paymah was a very good College man Press CB, better than Foxworth or Williams in that matter. However, he never made the adjustment to not being able to be physical downfield in Coverage. And, most importantly, still has no idea how to play Zone Coverage at all ;D You just can not be that one dimensional in the NFL and keep your job. However, several teams have continued to try to get him on their roster because they saw that press man skill on his college tape and think they can "coach him up".

I really liked his man coverage, but it does not translate to the NFL with the new emphasis. He just never made the mental jumps necessary to be an NFL CB.

As for the term Ballhawk, you either are or you are not. It is not an acquired skill. You either understand route recognition in Zone play like Asante Samuels and Ty Law did in their heyday, or you can man cover on an Island like Revis, Asomugha, or Woodson. What has made Champ Bailey still the best CB of this generation is that he is the ultra rare triple threat CB. He can play man, Zone, or Tackle like a playmaker. None of the above are as adept at all three, yet some are better at what they do best.

watermock
09-09-2010, 08:22 AM
crap.

His game didn't translate to the pros.

Too small, too slow.

That, or our coaching sucks. More likely, our drafting sucks.

For example Shonn Greene instead of Moreno. spending 3 high picks for a luxury QB, then ggiving an extention to Orton.
etting rid of Hillis for what?
Dimantling the #2 offense that had no RB.

We would of been a 11 win team if Shany wasn't so bullheaded about Slowdick.

I still have no clue how the 08D could be that bad with that offense.

Man-Goblin
09-09-2010, 08:22 AM
I believe many, especially the nationwide media hacks, are confusing departure by poor play with departure by being outplayed by 3 stellar rookies.

LRtagger
09-09-2010, 08:26 AM
Fonz is just 1 of many odd /reach picks. It's not just Fonz, it's that we dumped half our ofense for reaches like Quinn and Slomoreno.

Shanny had is share but that seemed solved with he Goodmans.

The draft seemed decent under the Goodmans, but don't forget they were also responsible for the FA signings. They consistently brought in some of the worst FA prospects in the league and expected them to turn the D around.

watermock
09-09-2010, 08:31 AM
It was a weak draft to trade up into.

And now we have 3 blocking TE's and no rush/rec threat at FB.

Did we draft a FB? NO

watermock
09-09-2010, 08:39 AM
I believe many, especially the nationwide media hacks, are confusing departure by poor play with departure by being outplayed by 3 stellar rookies.

How amusing. Cox?

Our corners are ancient. Dawkins is just plain old.

What corners?

Stellar rookies. Name 1.

Man-Goblin
09-09-2010, 08:42 AM
How amusing. Cox?

Our corners are ancient. Dawkins is just plain old.

What corners?

Stellar rookies. Name 1.

You don't like Cox? I figured you would.

Steve Sewell
09-09-2010, 08:43 AM
I can't wait to see what we get for the Quinn Twins.

Oakland is going to kick our ass.

The Saints are going to kick your Viqueen's asses tonight.

Mediator12
09-09-2010, 08:45 AM
It was a weak draft to trade up into.

And now we have 3 blocking TE's and no rush/rec threat at FB.

Did we draft a FB? NO

FB is not a solid personnel option in this offense Mock. Denver rarely uses a FB in its running game, that is why Hillis was unloaded.

And, It was a weak draft to trade up. For the life of me, I have tried to make sense of that trade. It just screams inexperience for Xanders and McDaniels. People with solid draft skills rarely try and trade up, they maximize their value instead of spending it.

I liked the player they took, I just really have issues with how it was handled internally. To use that much of your limited resources on a player you want to play right away is not good judgement IMHO.

baja
09-09-2010, 08:45 AM
Champ Bailey still the best CB of this generation is that he is the ultra rare triple threat CB. He can play man, Zone, or Tackle like a playmaker. None of the above are as adept at all three, yet some are better at what they do best.


Very good point

Man-Goblin
09-09-2010, 08:54 AM
I didn't agree with the trade to get Smith at the time, and in hindsight it looks even worse. But Alphonso Smith would still be here if the Rookies didn't play so well.

watermock
09-09-2010, 08:54 AM
Well, now that Beavis has burnt off all of the 06 draft, we'll see kow he does with a fresh hand.

Captain 'Dre
09-09-2010, 08:58 AM
Well Christ, what else is Detroit going to say about him?

"Damn that new corner we got from Denver really does suck."

My thought, exactly.

Big deal. The team that just acquired a guy says something nice about him.

What'd you expect? "Alphonso might stink, but we only gave up a 7th round pick and a player we were gonna cut anyways!" ugh!~

Rohirrim
09-09-2010, 09:00 AM
Every player who goes to a new team gives the same speech.

"Yeah, I sucked at my last team. But I learned a lot and now I'm not going to suck here."

watermock
09-09-2010, 09:01 AM
I didn't agree with the trade to get Smith at the time, and in hindsight it looks even worse. But Alphonso Smith would still be here if the Rookies didn't play so well.



Dude, Denver has drafted offense the last 2 years.

Cox was the only DB picked,http://broncotalk.net/2010/04/14838/broncos-blog/denver-broncos-2010-draft-order/

Jesus.

80% of our picks have been offense.

Rabb
09-09-2010, 09:01 AM
I didn't agree with the trade to get Smith at the time, and in hindsight it looks even worse. But Alphonso Smith would still be here if the Rookies didn't play so well.

absolutely agree with you

Rabb
09-09-2010, 09:03 AM
Dude, Denver hs drafted offense the last 2 years.

Cox was the only DB picked,http://broncotalk.net/2010/04/14838/broncos-blog/denver-broncos-2010-draft-order/

you are such a moron Mock

we got Smith last year, then Syd the Squid and Cox this year

the 2 rookies this year both arguably outplayed Smith and at minimum showed more potential

PB and toast this morning?

baja
09-09-2010, 09:03 AM
I don't think Shanahan was fired because he declared that he was keeping Slowick like is so often assumed around here.

Dagmar
09-09-2010, 09:06 AM
I can't wait to see what we get for the Quinn Twins.

Oakland is going to kick our ass.

Just quoting this for prosperity.

BroncoInferno
09-09-2010, 09:06 AM
Dude, Denver hs drafted offense the last 2 years.

Cox was the only DB picked,http://broncotalk.net/2010/04/14838/broncos-blog/denver-broncos-2010-draft-order/

We took The Squid went in round 7, dummy. And Cassius Vaughn was an undrafted FA who has also been impressive. You obviously have not been paying attention.

Man-Goblin
09-09-2010, 09:07 AM
Dude, Denver hs drafted offense the last 2 years.

Cox was the only DB picked,http://broncotalk.net/2010/04/14838/broncos-blog/denver-broncos-2010-draft-order/

Squid was drafted and he's a player. And Vaughn was a FA that has showed flashes as well.

The only alternative was to keep 11 DBs (a number I believe only 5 squads in the whole league kept), or to cut Nate Jones. But with the McBath situation they almost had to keep Jones because of his versatility.

That leaves Alphy Smith out, and not necessarilly by performance. He was a casualty of savvy drafting/UDFA pick ups in 2010. I have no problem with how they have handled Smith other than the way they acquired him. Simply to hang on to him because of what was given up for him in a previous year would be foolish.

watermock
09-09-2010, 09:08 AM
Our D is alot of castoffs and free agents.

Dagmar
09-09-2010, 09:09 AM
Well, now that Beavis has burnt off all of the 06 draft, we'll see kow he does with a fresh hand.

He sure burnt off Dumervil and Kuper by giving them boatloads of money, then went back in time, put on an orange Shanny mask and cut Hixon...

_Oro_
09-09-2010, 09:10 AM
Come on we could have lined up the Phonz at Safety.

watermock
09-09-2010, 09:15 AM
Whatever, McBath and Cox sre the only 2 drafted that stuck.


I guess we got a squid too.

cmhargrove
09-09-2010, 09:16 AM
I don't like the wasted pick, but the draft (and free agency) is often a crap shoot. I'm also glad we didn't spend a hundred million on the "Haynesworth sweepstakes," or spend millions on under-performers like Travis Henry, Adalius Thomas, etc.. Mistakes happen, we now have two young corners that play better than Alphonso, sometimes that's the way it goes...

I appreciate the fact that this staff will cut ties and move on if a player isn't working out. No more Nate Jackson taking up roster space for five years.

Earn a starting job, or move on...

watermock
09-09-2010, 09:17 AM
Come on we could have lined up the Phonz at Safety.

Isn't McBath the S?

DAWK is done after this year.

oubronco
09-09-2010, 09:22 AM
I don't think Shanahan was fired because he declared that he was keeping Slowick like is so often assumed around here.

I believe it was reported that Bowlen said it that way you might dig it up for your own curiousity

oubronco
09-09-2010, 09:24 AM
Our D is alot of castoffs and free agents.

As long as they make it work what's the big deal

baja
09-09-2010, 09:28 AM
I believe it was reported that Bowlen said it that way you might dig it up for your own curiousity

I don't have to 'dig it up' because that is not true.

Man-Goblin
09-09-2010, 09:31 AM
Whatever, McBath and Cox sre the only 2 drafted that stuck.


I guess we got a squid too.

Let me explain something to you, sparky.

The Broncos had the 3rd best pass defense in the entire league last year and they are even better in the secondary this year. While some of that can attributed to the fact that teams figured out they can gash them on the ground, those geezers you refered to can still play.

Even better, the Broncos have done an excellent job of filling the roster with excellent young talent behind the veterans despite the poor decision to draft Smith. Even if you surprisingly have never heard of them, this is talent that most of the league would kill for, including many so-called contenders.

Again, he was a casualty of excellent depth at the position he just so happened to play. This silly notion of "WE SPENd A 1ST ON HEM TIS' THERE JOB TO COACH HIM UP!" is bogus. He did not have a poor offseason or a poor preseason, but simply to keep him when you have better options would be even worse than making the move to get him in the first place. Hopefully, they have learned from that mistake.

Flex Gunmetal
09-09-2010, 10:01 AM
Why do you people take mock seriously?

He's a complete moron who will preach his nonsensical bs about a team he obviously doesn't watch to anyone who will listen. His comments are all interchangeable and offer no real insight whatsoever.
If he isn't just plain wrong (~90% of the time), he is completely incomprehensible and confused.

Flex Gunmetal
09-09-2010, 10:03 AM
Come on we could have lined up the Phonz at Safety.

He is tiny.

cmhargrove
09-09-2010, 10:05 AM
Is it also true that they love him before they have actually played him in a game?

baja
09-09-2010, 10:09 AM
Why do you people take mock seriously?

He's a complete moron who will preach his nonsensical bs about a team he obviously doesn't watch to anyone who will listen. His comments are all interchangeable and offer no real insight whatsoever.
If he isn't just plain wrong (~90% of the time), he is completely incomprehensible and confused.

Most posters that respond to Mock are really directing their post to the rest of the board to be funny or show how smart they are.


I wish Mock did not set himself up for that but he does.

DenverBrit
09-09-2010, 10:10 AM
I don't have to 'dig it up' because that is not true.

It was reported by the RM News that his refusal to fire Slowic was a reason Shanny was fired......others have said it was the poor relationship that had developed between Shanny and Bowlen.

Winning only one playoff game in ten years was the problem....had Shanny been winning, he'd still be coaching in Denver.

HAT
09-09-2010, 10:11 AM
You don't like Cox? I figured you would.

Don't let Mock kid you. He will be slobbering all over Denver's Cox by the end of the year.

Let's just hope he stays healthy so McD doesn't have to pull his Cox out.

Man-Goblin
09-09-2010, 10:13 AM
Why do you people take mock seriously?

He's a complete moron who will preach his nonsensical bs about a team he obviously doesn't watch to anyone who will listen. His comments are all interchangeable and offer no real insight whatsoever.
If he isn't just plain wrong (~90% of the time), he is completely incomprehensible and confused.

You are correct, sir. I got sucked in to the vortex.

baja
09-09-2010, 10:18 AM
It was reported by the RM News that his refusal to fire Slowick was a reason Shanny was fired......others have said it was the poor relationship that had developed between Shanny and Bowlen.

Winning only one playoff game in ten years was the problem....had Shanny been winning, he'd still be coaching in Denver.

Common sense tells me if Slowick were the issue Mike would still be here.

Pat Bowlen, "Mike, you know I seldom interfere but I want a new DC this season."

Mike Shanahan, " I don't know Pat, I think he is the guy''.

Pat, "Let me put this another way Mike, it's him or you"

Mike, " I'll call around to see who's out there, see ya tomorrow Pat"

DenverBrit
09-09-2010, 10:25 AM
Common sense tells me if Slowick were the issue Mike would still be here.

Pat Bowlen, "Mike, you know I seldom interfere but I want a new DC this season."

Mike Shanahan, " I don't know Pat, I think he is the guy''.

Pat, "Let me put this another way Mike, it's him or you"

Mike, " I'll call around to see who's out there, see ya tomorrow Pat"

http://views.washingtonpost.com/theleague/nflnewsfeed/2008/12/shanahan-wouldnt-fire-slowik.html

Cito Pelon
09-09-2010, 10:26 AM
Most posters that respond to Mock are really directing their post to the rest of the board to be funny or show how smart they are.


I wish Mock did not set himself up for that but he does.

Paraphrasing Winston Churchill:

"I cannot forecast to you the actions of Mock. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma . . . . ."

jhns
09-09-2010, 10:29 AM
Of course they love Smith. My washing machine would be an upgrade in talent for that roster.

TheReverend
09-09-2010, 10:29 AM
Most posters that respond to Mock are really directing their post to the rest of the board to be funny or show how smart they are.


I wish Mock did not set himself up for that but he does.

^ And very, very rarely do they pull it off.

CEH
09-09-2010, 10:32 AM
http://views.washingtonpost.com/theleague/nflnewsfeed/2008/12/shanahan-wouldnt-fire-slowik.html

Owner Pat Bowlen's decision to fire Mike Shanahan as coach of the Denver Broncos reportedly came after Shanahan refused to make changes to his coaching staff.

According to the Rocky Mountain News, the changes desired by Bowlen included the firing of defensive coordinator Bob Slowik.

But the newspaper also reported that, according to some Broncos officials, that difference of opinion was not necessarily the reason for Shanahan's firing. Those club officials instead pointed to an erosion of the relationship between Bowlen and Shanahan, according to the report
-------------------------------

I tend to believe the erosion aspect . I heard Joe Ellis had been pushing to let Mike go a year before
Seems to be conflicting reports.

watermock
09-09-2010, 10:40 AM
Most posters that respond to Mock are really directing their post to the rest of the board to be funny or show how smart they are.


I wish Mock did not set himself up for that but he does.


You mean I made up the fact Denver has used 80% of picks on offense?

broncofan2438
09-09-2010, 10:44 AM
He has the "ability" not the "it". Anyone and everyone has the ability

Mediator12
09-09-2010, 10:45 AM
Owner Pat Bowlen's decision to fire Mike Shanahan as coach of the Denver Broncos reportedly came after Shanahan refused to make changes to his coaching staff.

According to the Rocky Mountain News, the changes desired by Bowlen included the firing of defensive coordinator Bob Slowik.

But the newspaper also reported that, according to some Broncos officials, that difference of opinion was not necessarily the reason for Shanahan's firing. Those club officials instead pointed to an erosion of the relationship between Bowlen and Shanahan, according to the report
-------------------------------

I tend to believe the erosion aspect . I heard Joe Ellis had been pushing to let Mike go a year before
Seems to be conflicting reports.

Actually, its a Both/and and not an either/or type of thing. I think all three main points made the decision pretty clear to Bowlen.

1. Team was not one player away from another SB. Heck they were not even making the playoffs consistently.

2. The coaching staff changes Mike made were personal and NOT professional.

3. Bowlen saw more average mediocrity in the future unless he made a change.

Paladin
09-09-2010, 10:50 AM
This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

Speaking of buttniks, here's another one.......


Mock has always been a pickledpecker, even before his encounter with the PB. He frequently posted with his firend Jack Daniels (or one of his relatives), and I have not discerned any real change. I don't even think he's funny any more, just patheric. I have him on ignore, just like that other ntiwit.

Pony Boy
09-09-2010, 10:52 AM
You know playing CB with Suh rushing the QB might make a guy look like an all-pro.

baja
09-09-2010, 10:55 AM
http://views.washingtonpost.com/theleague/nflnewsfeed/2008/12/shanahan-wouldnt-fire-slowik.html


Your link;

Shanahan Wouldn't Fire Slowik
Owner Pat Bowlen's decision to fire Mike Shanahan as coach of the Denver Broncos<b> reportedly</b> came after Shanahan refused to make changes to his coaching staff.

According to the Rocky Mountain News, the changes desired by Bowlen included the firing of defensive coordinator Bob Slowik.

<b>But the newspaper also reported that, according to some Broncos officials, that difference of opinion was not necessarily the reason for Shanahan's firing. Those club officials instead pointed to an erosion of the relationship between Bowlen and Shanahan, according to the report.</b>

<b>Bowlen fired Shanahan on Tuesday on the heels of the Broncos missing the playoffs for a third straight season, this time by squandering a three-game lead in the AFC West with three games remaining. </b>Shanahan had coached the team for 14 seasons.

Both Bowlen and Shanahan are scheduled to participate in news conferences today, according to the Broncos.

baja
09-09-2010, 10:58 AM
You mean I made up the fact Denver has used 80% of picks on offense?

No that's not what I mean my friend.

Inkana7
09-09-2010, 10:58 AM
You mean I made up the fact Denver has used 80% of picks on offense?

In 2009 4/7 draft picks were on Defense. In 2010 they spent 4/9 picks on Defense. That's 8/16. 50% offense, 50% defense.

So yes, you did make it up.

DenverBrit
09-09-2010, 10:58 AM
Actually, its a Both/and and not an either/or type of thing. I think all three main points made the decision pretty clear to Bowlen.

1. Team was not one player away from another SB. Heck they were not even making the playoffs consistently.

2. The coaching staff changes Mike made were personal and NOT professional.

3. Bowlen saw more average mediocrity in the future unless he made a change.

You could add the distractions of building a 35,000 sq ft house.......which dwarf's Bowlen's home. And opening a restaurant named after himself.

All happening while the team is an 8-8 team and not sniffing the playoffs.

DenverBrit
09-09-2010, 11:02 AM
Your link;

Shanahan Wouldn't Fire Slowik
Owner Pat Bowlen's decision to fire Mike Shanahan as coach of the Denver Broncos<b> reportedly</b> came after Shanahan refused to make changes to his coaching staff.

According to the Rocky Mountain News, the changes desired by Bowlen included the firing of defensive coordinator Bob Slowik.

<b>But the newspaper also reported that, according to some Broncos officials, that difference of opinion was not necessarily the reason for Shanahan's firing. Those club officials instead pointed to an erosion of the relationship between Bowlen and Shanahan, according to the report.</b>

<b>Bowlen fired Shanahan on Tuesday on the heels of the Broncos missing the playoffs for a third straight season, this time by squandering a three-game lead in the AFC West with three games remaining. </b>Shanahan had coached the team for 14 seasons.

Both Bowlen and Shanahan are scheduled to participate in news conferences today, according to the Broncos.

My original comment covered all three points.

It was reported by the RM News that his refusal to fire Slowic was a reason Shanny was fired......others have said it was the poor relationship that had developed between Shanny and Bowlen. Winning only one playoff game in ten years was the problem....had Shanny been winning, he'd still be coaching in Denver.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-09-2010, 11:03 AM
Leaps and bounds.

baja
09-09-2010, 11:04 AM
Actually, its a Both/and and not an either/or type of thing. I think all three main points made the decision pretty clear to Bowlen.

1. Team was not one player away from another SB. Heck they were not even making the playoffs consistently.

2. The coaching staff changes Mike made were personal and NOT professional.

<b>3. Bowlen saw more average mediocrity in the future unless he made a change.</b>

Bottom line reason right there.

BroncoBuff
09-09-2010, 11:04 AM
what was the pick we received for him?

A 5th, through the Eagles.

baja
09-09-2010, 11:05 AM
My original comment covered all three points.

Sorry then, I thought you were saying it was because he refused to fire Slowshiit.

Rock Chalk
09-09-2010, 11:06 AM
In 2009 4/7 draft picks were on Defense. In 2010 they spent 4/9 picks on Defense. That's 8/16. 50% offense, 50% defense.

So yes, you did make it up.

pwned

Cito Pelon
09-09-2010, 11:10 AM
Your link;

Shanahan Wouldn't Fire Slowik
Owner Pat Bowlen's decision to fire Mike Shanahan as coach of the Denver Broncos<b> reportedly</b> came after Shanahan refused to make changes to his coaching staff.

According to the Rocky Mountain News, the changes desired by Bowlen included the firing of defensive coordinator Bob Slowik.

<b>But the newspaper also reported that, according to some Broncos officials, that difference of opinion was not necessarily the reason for Shanahan's firing. Those club officials instead pointed to an erosion of the relationship between Bowlen and Shanahan, according to the report.</b>

<b>Bowlen fired Shanahan on Tuesday on the heels of the Broncos missing the playoffs for a third straight season, this time by squandering a three-game lead in the AFC West with three games remaining. </b>Shanahan had coached the team for 14 seasons.

Both Bowlen and Shanahan are scheduled to participate in news conferences today, according to the Broncos.

Shanny in that final press conference as a Bronco seemed to be actually relieved to be able to take a break from the pressure.

Pony Boy
09-09-2010, 11:12 AM
On Monday, one of the first things coach Jim Schwartz said he liked about Smith was his personality.

ROFL!Hilarious!ROFL!Hilarious!

Cito Pelon
09-09-2010, 11:13 AM
Leaps and bounds.

Shock and awe.

Steve Sewell
09-09-2010, 11:14 AM
Common sense tells me if Slowick were the issue Mike would still be here.

Pat Bowlen, "Mike, you know I seldom interfere but I want a new DC this season."

Mike Shanahan, " I don't know Pat, I think he is the guy''.

Pat, "Let me put this another way Mike, it's him or you"

Mike, " I'll call around to see who's out there, see ya tomorrow Pat"

Exactly. People who believe that Shanahan would give up his job as the Broncos HC over his loyalty to a defensive coordinator are daft. Dude had no problem firing DC after DC.

Man-Goblin
09-09-2010, 11:14 AM
Most posters that respond to Mock are really directing their post to the rest of the board to be funny or show how smart they are.


Guilty.

DenverBrit
09-09-2010, 11:15 AM
Sorry then, I thought you were saying it was because he refused to fire Slowshiit.

No problem.

I was just agreeing that it had been reported as a reason....along with several others.

Man-Goblin
09-09-2010, 11:15 AM
^ And very, very rarely do they pull it off.

Guilty again.

baja
09-09-2010, 11:15 AM
Shanny in that final press conference as a Bronco seemed to be actually relieved to be able to take a break from the pressure.

I also think firing Mike was one of the hardest things Pat ever had to do.

It pisses me off that pat Bowlen is demonized around here.

Bunch of ungrateful peeps I tell ya.

Gutless Drunk = worse thread ever hands down.

broncogary
09-09-2010, 11:19 AM
Most posters that respond to Mock are really directing their post to the rest of the board to be funny or show how smart they are.

I just do it for fun.:welcome:

Steve Sewell
09-09-2010, 11:22 AM
I also think firing Mike was one of the hardest things Pat ever had to do.

It pisses me off that pat Bowlen is demonized around here.

Bunch of ungrateful peeps I tell ya.

Gutless Drunk = worse thread ever hands down.

Don't the Broncos have something like one of the top 3 overall records during Bowlen's tenure as owner? And of course, 5 Super Bowl appearances and 2 Super Bowl titles?

The one constant in this franchise over that time is him, which is why he's considered one of the best owners in all of professional sports. Yet some of these message board "experts" around here think he's some sort of blithering, drunk idiot. It's tiring and laughable.

baja
09-09-2010, 11:25 AM
Don't the Broncos have something like one of the top 3 overall records during Bowlen's tenure as owner? And of course, 5 Super Bowl appearances and 2 Super Bowl titles?

The one constant in this franchise over that time is him, which is why he's considered one of the best owners in all of professional sports. Yet some of these message board "experts" around here think he's some sort of blithering, drunk idiot. It's tiring and laughable.

It really does piss me off and if someone does it in front of me I will blast them (verbally)

DenverBrit
09-09-2010, 11:35 AM
I also think firing Mike was one of the hardest things Pat ever had to do.

It pisses me off that pat Bowlen is demonized around here.

Bunch of ungrateful peeps I tell ya.

Gutless Drunk = worse thread ever hands down.


Absolutely!!

Dagmar
09-09-2010, 11:36 AM
You mean I made up the fact Denver has used 80% of picks on offense?

12 of 19 is 80% in the last 2 years?




1. Knowshon Moreno
Running Back (12)


1. Robert Ayers
Defensive End (18)


2. Alphonso Smith
Cornerback (37)


2. Darcel McBath
Defensive Back (48)


2. Richard Quinn
Tight End (64)


4. David Bruton
Safety (114)


4. Seth Olsen
Guard (132)


5. Kenny McKinley
Wide Receiver (141)


6. Tom Brandstater
Quarterback (174)


7. Blake Schlueter
Center (225)

...............

* WR Demaryius Thomas (1st Round, 22nd overall)
* QB Tim Tebow (1st Round, 25th overall)
* OL Zane Beadles – (2nd Round, 45th overall)
* C J.D. Walton – (3rd Round, 80th overall)
* WR Eric Decker – (3rd Round, 87th overall) (from Philadelphia)
* CB Perrish Cox – (5th Round, 137th overall) (from Philadelphia via Cleveland)
* C Eric Olsen – (6th Round, 183rd overall)
* CB Syd’quan Thompson - (7th, 225th overall)
* DE/OLB Jammie Kirlew – (7th, 232rd overall)

broncogary
09-09-2010, 11:39 AM
12 of 19 is 80% in the last 2 years?



It's the new math. You're a foreigner, you wouldn't understand. :wiggle:

Dagmar
09-09-2010, 11:41 AM
It's the new math. You're a foreigner, you wouldn't understand. :wiggle:

Yeah, damned metric system. :wiggle:

watermock
09-09-2010, 11:43 AM
Denver has used picks on Smith, McBath, Cox, but most picks have gone to offense.

How many DL have we drafted? LB's?

The FACT is 80% of Beavis' picks have been offense.


****ing look it up.

And most have been cut other than the footsie twins and baby Jesus. Oh, and Moreno.

Even Royal dropped off.

Denver went 2-8 late and could of easily gone 6-10.

The coach needs a good spanking, we have no GM. and Bowlen is the captain of the Exxon Valdez.

Flex Gunmetal
09-09-2010, 11:44 AM
Mock, you have undiagnosed Down Syndrome. What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

(AKA: Did not read)

baja
09-09-2010, 11:46 AM
Denver has used picks on Smith, McBath, Cox, but most picks have gone to offense.

How many DL have we drafted? LB's?

The FACT is 80% of Beavis' picks have been offense.


****ing look it up.

And most have been cut other than the footsie twins and baby Jesus. Oh, and Moreno.

Even Royal dropped off.

Denver went 2-8 late and could of easily gone 6-10.

The coach needs a good spanking, we have no GM. and Bowlen is the captain of the Exxon Valdez.

Dude!!!


What ya gonna do when we win 10 games this year?

watermock
09-09-2010, 11:47 AM
And **** that pencilnecked geek out of the chair and give it to a real GM.

watermock
09-09-2010, 11:51 AM
Mock, you have undiagnosed Down Syndrome. What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

(AKA: Did not read)

How original.

You can't even dig up an insult on your lonesome??

Flex Gunmetal
09-09-2010, 11:52 AM
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/Stefangs/1-78.gif

Dagmar
09-09-2010, 11:54 AM
Denver has used picks on Smith, McBath, Cox, but most picks have gone to offense.

How many DL have we drafted? LB's?

The FACT is 80% of Beavis' picks have been offense.


****ing look it up.

And most have been cut other than the footsie twins and baby Jesus. Oh, and Moreno.

Even Royal dropped off.

Denver went 2-8 late and could of easily gone 6-10.

The coach needs a good spanking, we have no GM. and Bowlen is the captain of the Exxon Valdez.

1. Knowshon Moreno Running Back (12)
1. Robert Ayers Defensive End (18)
2. Alphonso Smith Cornerback (37)
2. Darcel McBath Defensive Back (48)
2. Richard Quinn Tight End (64)
4. David Bruton Safety (114)
4. Seth Olsen Guard (132)
5. Kenny McKinley Wide Receiver (141)
6. Tom Brandstater Quarterback (174)
7. Blake Schlueter Center (225)

...............

* WR Demaryius Thomas (1st Round, 22nd overall)
* QB Tim Tebow (1st Round, 25th overall)
* OL Zane Beadles – (2nd Round, 45th overall)
* C J.D. Walton – (3rd Round, 80th overall)
* WR Eric Decker – (3rd Round, 87th overall) (from Philadelphia)
* CB Perrish Cox – (5th Round, 137th overall) (from Philadelphia via Cleveland)
* C Eric Olsen – (6th Round, 183rd overall)
* CB Syd’quan Thompson - (7th, 225th overall)
* DE/OLB Jammie Kirlew – (7th, 232rd overall)

12 Offense. 7 Defense.
12 of 19 is a FACT

Is that 80%?

Ok, it'll take you too long, it's 63%.

STFU.

:welcome:

watermock
09-09-2010, 11:58 AM
Dude!!!


What ya gonna do when we win 10 games this year?

Jesus.

If Denver can't win 10. heads should roll.

Flex Gunmetal
09-09-2010, 12:00 PM
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/Stefangs/2-58.gif

Kaylore
09-09-2010, 12:09 PM
Mock, you suck.

baja
09-09-2010, 12:10 PM
Jesus.

If Denver can't win 10. heads should roll.

Then what the hell are you whining about?

10 wins for a second year coach that inherited an 500% team (three years running) is not bad.

worm
09-09-2010, 12:14 PM
Then what the hell are you whining about?

10 wins for a second year coach that inherited an 500% team (three years running) is not bad.

500% sounds like, really, really good!

We are at reedickulous speed!

watermock
09-09-2010, 12:35 PM
The easiest schedule in a decade, and .500 is good?

wow.

Flex Gunmetal
09-09-2010, 12:37 PM
...................

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/Stefangs/3-41.gif

baja
09-09-2010, 12:37 PM
The easiest schedule in a decade, and .500 is good?

wow.

Pisst. Mock the 500% team was the one Shanny left for McD.

I'm calling 10 wins this year, remember?

watermock
09-09-2010, 12:45 PM
I allready said 10-6

With Clady out and Doom out.

Homer on...maybe Baby Jesus brings us to the promised land.


Naw. Nick Sabin already nipped that in the bud.

Flex Gunmetal
09-09-2010, 12:45 PM
I allready said 10-6

With Clady out and Doom out.

Homer on...maybe Baby Jesus brings us to the promised land.


Naw. Nick Sabin already nipped that in the bud.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/Stefangs/4-29.gif

watermock
09-09-2010, 01:02 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_eW8U4L0niRE/S-bZ67JVEtI/AAAAAAAAGZ4/K6hQ9YfgC7c/s1600/Golden-Calf.jpg

Try to see thru Tebow's eyes.

watermock
09-09-2010, 01:07 PM
Just read the pictures huh.

You're "Special."

baja
09-09-2010, 01:08 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_eW8U4L0niRE/S-bZ67JVEtI/AAAAAAAAGZ4/K6hQ9YfgC7c/s1600/Golden-Calf.jpg

Try to see thru Tebow's eyes.

Mock you sure you get good ventilation in your apartment?

Flex Gunmetal
09-09-2010, 01:13 PM
Just read the pictures huh.

You're "Special."

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/Stefangs/5-18.gif

watermock
09-09-2010, 01:16 PM
I've got GOLDEN BALLS.

Rohirrim
09-09-2010, 01:17 PM
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/Stefangs/2-58.gif

Dude's got boobs. :spit:

Br0nc0Buster
09-09-2010, 01:18 PM
if "McBeavis" flames out, I want Mock as the next Broncos HC

OABB
09-09-2010, 01:18 PM
I've got GOLDEN BALLS.

it's probably from all the goldschlager you have for breakfast.

watermock
09-09-2010, 01:19 PM
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/Stefangs/5-18.gif

Retard.

Rulon Velvet Jones
09-09-2010, 01:19 PM
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/omara86/whatwhat.gif

broncogary
09-09-2010, 02:16 PM
I just do it for fun.:welcome:

See? Wasn't that fun? ROFL!

azbroncfan
09-09-2010, 02:19 PM
For example Shonn Greene instead of Moreno. spending 3 high picks for a luxury QB, then ggiving an extention to Orton.
etting rid of Hillis for what?
Dimantling the #2 offense that had no RB.

.

:deadhorse Topic has been covered but Greene was passed on everyone 2x at least. Hit some and miss some you were so pissed off you pounded a half gallon of Popov when Shanny past on Fargas. Remember that?

azbroncfan
09-09-2010, 02:26 PM
12 of 19 is 80% in the last 2 years?


)

Give him a break he has been having vodka floats with balls of peanut butter all morning.

TheReverend
09-09-2010, 03:00 PM
Of course they love him in Detroit. They got to pass all over him a couple weeks ago.

Boomhauer
09-09-2010, 03:47 PM
As long as Dagmar started a list, I'll improve it.

'09 1. Knowshon Moreno Reach for a Back-up
Running Back (12)
'09 1. Robert Ayers Bust
Nickle DE (18)
'10 1. Demaryius Thomas Bust
WideReceiver (22)
'10 1. Tim Tebow Reach for a Back-up
Wildcat QB (25)

'09 2. Alphonso Smith Bust and Cut
Cornerback (37)
'10 2. Zane Beadles ?
O-Lineman (45)
'09 2. Darcel McBath Bust
Safety (48)
'09 2. Richard Quinn Bust
Tight End (64)

'10 3. JD Walton ?, but promising
Center (80)
'10 3. Eric Decker Steal
WideReceiver (87)

'09 4. David Bruton Steal
Safety (114)
'09 4. Seth Olsen Cut
Guard (132)

'10 5. Perrish Cox ?
Cornerback (137)
'09 5. Kenny McKinley ?
WideReceiver (141)

'09 6. Tom Brandstater Cut, but promising
Quarterback (174)
'10 6. Eric Olsen ?
Int O-Line (183)

'09 7. Blake Schlueter Cut
Center (225)
'10 7. Syd'Quan Thompson ?
Cornerback (225)
'10 7. Jammie Kirlew Cut
Outside LB (232)

That makes 9 of 18 that have been, or should be, off the roster.
Two reaches in the 1st. Two steals in the Middle. Many questions.

PRBronco
09-09-2010, 03:51 PM
.

What a treat it is to have some insightful new posters.

Dagmar
09-09-2010, 03:53 PM
What a treat it is to have some insightful new posters.

ROFL! :spit: Ha!

TheReverend
09-09-2010, 03:57 PM
What a treat it is to have some insightful new posters.

Yeah... half of the deemed busts haven't even played an NFL game yet and calling McBath a "bust" is the height of absurdity after his rookie campaign.

Boomhauer
09-09-2010, 04:06 PM
Yeah... half of the deemed busts haven't even played an NFL game yet and calling McBath a "bust" is the height of absurdity after his rookie campaign.

D.Thomas hasn't, but R.Ayers / A.Smith / D.McBath / R.Quinn have. All four of which (FYI) I've been calling a bust since last preseason.

What's to like about McBath's play, his SP-T tackles? Guys with speed, step and tackling that poor are usually camp fodder or P-Squad depth.

baja
09-09-2010, 04:09 PM
D.Thomas hasn't, but R.Ayers / A.Smith / D.McBath / R.Quinn have. All four of which (FYI) I've been calling a bust since last preseason.

What's to like about McBath's play, his SP-T tackles? Guys with speed, step and tackling that poor are usually camp fodder or P-Squad depth.

Can you ban someone for stupidity?

DenverBrit
09-09-2010, 04:10 PM
D.Thomas hasn't, but R.Ayers / A.Smith / D.McBath / R.Quinn have. All four of which (FYI) I've been calling a bust since last preseason.


Yeah, you and Mock. What a pair. Ha!

DenverBrit
09-09-2010, 04:11 PM
Can you ban someone for stupidity?

No, but if stupidity were painful, he'd be posting from an ICU.

TheReverend
09-09-2010, 04:14 PM
D.Thomas hasn't, but R.Ayers / A.Smith / D.McBath / R.Quinn have. All four of which (FYI) I've been calling a bust since last preseason.

What's to like about McBath's play, his SP-T tackles? Guys with speed, step and tackling that poor are usually camp fodder or P-Squad depth.

McBath played over 50% of the defensive snaps (DEFENSIVE not ST you dip****) as a rookie last season and also hauled in 2 interceptions along with some fantastic open field tackles (22 solo, out of a 26 total).

Ayers earned a starting role.

Smith is absolutely a bust and Quinn most likely with him, but your perspective on the other two certainly quantifies your opinion on everything to be thrown out in the trash where it belongs.

baja
09-09-2010, 04:20 PM
No, but if stupidity were painful, he'd be posting from an ICU.

On a positive note he would qualify for medical marijuana

Flex Gunmetal
09-09-2010, 04:21 PM
D.Thomas hasn't, but R.Ayers / A.Smith / D.McBath / R.Quinn have. All four of which (FYI) I've been calling a bust since last preseason.

What's to like about McBath's play, his SP-T tackles? Guys with speed, step and tackling that poor are usually camp fodder or P-Squad depth.

Who is this retard, and why would anyone care if you were calling rookies busts last preseason? If anything, it's evidence you have no idea what you are talking about.
You and mock are both morons, and belong in the did not read section together.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/Stefangs/7-8.gif

BroncoBuff
09-09-2010, 05:03 PM
Can you ban someone for stupidity?

If they did, this place would would become tumbleweeds and dust in no time.

This place would empty out faster than a .... than a .... (punchline anybody?)

Dagmar
09-09-2010, 05:05 PM
McBath played over 50% of the defensive snaps (DEFENSIVE not ST you dip****) as a rookie last season and also hauled in 2 interceptions along with some fantastic open field tackles (22 solo, out of a 26 total).

Ayers earned a starting role.

Smith is absolutely a bust and Quinn most likely with him, but your perspective on the other two certainly quantifies your opinion on everything to be thrown out in the trash where it belongs.

I fully believe Quinn will stick around, it was stated MANY times last year that he was a player who would be groomed to produce in his 2nd or 3rd year.

baja
09-09-2010, 05:06 PM
If they did, this place would would become tumbleweeds and dust in no time.

This place would empty out faster than a .... than a .... (punchline anybody?)


....whore house when someone shouts your wife is downstairs

Boomhauer
09-09-2010, 05:11 PM
McBath played over 50% of the defensive snaps (DEFENSIVE not ST you dip****) as a rookie last season and also hauled in 2 interceptions along with some fantastic open field tackles (22 solo, out of a 26 total). ...

From DenverBroncos.com player profile:
"McBATH AT A GLANCE:
• A second-year safety who appeared in 13 games with the Broncos as a rookie in 2009, totaling 15 tackles (13 solo), a team-high 11 special-teams stops and two interceptions.
• Joined four other rookies in the NFL in 2009 to lead their team in special-teams tackles (11) while tying for third among league rookie safeties with two interceptions.
• Registered multiple special-teams tackles three times as a rookie in 2009, including a personal-best three stops in the Broncos’ win vs. New England (10/11/09)."

Should point out his two INTs were tied with Dawkins (both off deflections #59 and #24) and Hill. His two were a deflection (#24) and underthrown lob to the sideline. Both from the FS position, along with his three PDs, but has been replaced by Bruton and Jones on the depth chart at FS this year.

baja
09-09-2010, 05:16 PM
From DenverBroncos.com player profile:
"McBATH AT A GLANCE:
• A second-year safety who appeared in 13 games with the Broncos as a rookie in 2009, totaling 15 tackles (13 solo), a team-high 11 special-teams stops and two interceptions.
• Joined four other rookies in the NFL in 2009 to lead their team in special-teams tackles (11) while tying for third among league rookie safeties with two interceptions.
• Registered multiple special-teams tackles three times as a rookie in 2009, including a personal-best three stops in the Broncos’ win vs. New England (10/11/09)."

Should point out his two INTs were tied with Dawkins (both off deflections #59 and #24) and Hill. His two were a deflection (#24) and underthrown lob to the sideline. Both from the FS position, along with his three PDs, but has been replaced by Bruton and Jones on the depth chart at FS this year.

Do you think the fact he is injured might have something to do with his position on the depth chart?

TheReverend
09-09-2010, 05:28 PM
From DenverBroncos.com player profile:
"McBATH AT A GLANCE:
• A second-year safety who appeared in 13 games with the Broncos as a rookie in 2009, totaling 15 tackles (13 solo), a team-high 11 special-teams stops and two interceptions.
• Joined four other rookies in the NFL in 2009 to lead their team in special-teams tackles (11) while tying for third among league rookie safeties with two interceptions.
• Registered multiple special-teams tackles three times as a rookie in 2009, including a personal-best three stops in the Broncos’ win vs. New England (10/11/09)."

Should point out his two INTs were tied with Dawkins (both off deflections #59 and #24) and Hill. His two were a deflection (#24) and underthrown lob to the sideline. Both from the FS position, along with his three PDs, but has been replaced by Bruton and Jones on the depth chart at FS this year.

He's been hurt for like a month genius...

TheReverend
09-09-2010, 05:29 PM
I fully believe Quinn will stick around, it was stated MANY times last year that he was a player who would be groomed to produce in his 2nd or 3rd year.

I'm sure he'll stick around... but I wanna see some production catching balls in an actual game eventually... especially considering we didn't see any in his college career.

Flex Gunmetal
09-09-2010, 05:59 PM
RFrom DenverBroncos.com player profile:
"McBATH AT A GLANCE:
• A second-year safety who appeared in 13 games with the Broncos as a rookie in 2009, totaling 15 tackles (13 solo), a team-high 11 special-teams stops and two interceptions.
• Joined four other rookies in the NFL in 2009 to lead their team in special-teams tackles (11) while tying for third among league rookie safeties with two interceptions.
• Registered multiple special-teams tackles three times as a rookie in 2009, including a personal-best three stops in the Broncos’ win vs. New England (10/11/09)."

Should point out his two INTs were tied with Dawkins (both off deflections #59 and #24) and Hill. His two were a deflection (#24) and underthrown lob to the sideline. Both from the FS position, along with his three PDs, but has been replaced by Bruton and Jones on the depth chart at FS this year.
48 posts. There's still time to reregister and present a less than moronic persona. Mainly by not posting.

The MVPlaya
09-09-2010, 07:32 PM
Boomhauer = jhns people...

Flex Gunmetal
09-09-2010, 07:35 PM
Remember when we didn't have trolls?

oubronco
09-09-2010, 07:57 PM
Can you ban someone for stupidity?

He's been calling them busts since last preseason but only joined in Aug seems fishy could he be Rasta or lex or one of the other idiots or is he just an new original idiot

Steve Sewell
09-09-2010, 08:01 PM
Bunch of BS

Yo what's up jhiz

oubronco
09-09-2010, 08:02 PM
Yo what's up jhiz

So it is one of the old idiots and not a new one

Dagmar
09-09-2010, 08:04 PM
Remember when we didn't have trolls?

No, just different ones.

GonzoLays
rastaman
broncofan7 etc.

BroncoBuff
09-09-2010, 08:38 PM
-Slap-

SoCalBronco
09-10-2010, 12:46 AM
I also think firing Mike was one of the hardest things Pat ever had to do.

It pisses me off that pat Bowlen is demonized around here.

Bunch of ungrateful peeps I tell ya.

Gutless Drunk = worse thread ever hands down.

Pat is generally not "demonized" here, although there are some of us who are less than impressed with him in his current form. His financial commitment to the on field product, as compared with league averages this past decade, were less than inspiring, and he shares a substantial degree of blame for the team's relative mediocrity for that reason.

Most fans also find it generally acceptable that he remained aloof and allowed the professionals to do their job in running the team in normal circumstances. But by the same token, many of us expected him to show some skill and initiative at crisis management and make sure that "best efforts" are made at amicable resolution of said crises. But that's not what we saw from Pat last year. I still find it extremely difficult to sympathize with a guy who wants his calls returned when he's unwilling to walk a couple hundred of feet.

Pat was an amazing owner for this team for many years. A great man in many ways. For all the people who like to tell us not to live in the past with Shanny, perhaps they should take some of their own medicine. Don't revel in Pat's past greatness...look at him now.

baja
09-10-2010, 01:03 AM
Pat is generally not "demonized" here, although there are some of us who are less than impressed with him in his current form. His financial commitment to the on field product, as compared with league averages this past decade, were less than inspiring, and he shares a substantial degree of blame for the team's relative mediocrity for that reason.

Most fans also find it generally acceptable that he remained aloof and allowed the professionals to do their job in running the team in normal circumstances. But by the same token, many of us expected him to show some skill and initiative at crisis management and make sure that "best efforts" are made at amicable resolution of said crises. But that's not what we saw from Pat last year. I still find it extremely difficult to sympathize with a guy who wants his calls returned when he's unwilling to walk a couple hundred of feet.

Pat was an amazing owner for this team for many years. A great man in many ways. For all the people who like to tell us not to live in the past with Shanny, perhaps they should take some of their own medicine. Don't revel in Pat's past greatness...look at him now.

You are latching on to sides of a story that you chose to believe. Truth is we have no way of knowing exactly what went down at Dove Valley, oh we might have a piece here and a piece there but the complete picture - no way. That is why I chose to base my opinion on the situation by looking at the track record and peer respect of Mr. Bowlen and apply the same to Jay Cutler. From where I'm sitting it is Cutler that is the one with the issues that bring down a team not Bowlen. Just look at the way Jay is effecting the fan base in Chicago now. At first they felt their savior had arrived, today if you read their boards you will find many fans are deeply disappointed in Jay Cutler / his play and his commitment. I am thrilled we were able to get as much as we did for Cutler. Hell today I would gladly take Orton for Cutler straight up. I think you are really reaching to make your case counselor if you step away and look at you big picture instead of wallowing in details that are hearsay at best you will see we are a team on the rise and Chicago because of the cost of Cutler is in a down turn. I thank Pat Bowlen for that.

You case is weak So Cal. and I think most posters here see that. I know you will come around though.

SoCalBronco
09-10-2010, 01:14 AM
You are latching on to sides of a story that you chose to believe. Truth is we have no way of knowing exactly what went down at Dove Valley, oh we might have a piece here and a piece there but the complete picture - no way. That is why I chose to base my opinion on the situation by looking at the track record and peer respect of Mr. Bowlen and apply the same to Jay Cutler. From where I'm sitting it is Cutler that is the one with the issues that bring down a team not Bowlen. Just look at the way Jay is effecting the fan base in Chicago now. At first they felt their savior had arrived, today if you read their boards you will find many fans are deeply disappointed in Jay Cutler / his play and his commitment. I am thrilled we were able to get as much as we did for Cutler. Hell today I would gladly take Orton for Cutler straight up. I think you are really reaching to make your case counselor if you step away and look at you big picture instead of wallowing in details that are hearsay at best you will see we are a team on the rise and Chicago because of the cost of Cutler is in a down turn. I thank Pat Bowlen for that.

You case is weak So Cal. and I think most posters here see that. I know you will come around though.

It is unfortunate that there are some frailties in Jay Cutler's personality, but that's not really relevant to the issues I raised. If Bowlen were truly interested in talking to Jay and resolving the crisis in a peaceful manner that kept him on this team (like they said they were trying to do...."we are not trading Jay Cutler, we want him on this team"), then I would have expected a reasonable owner, who had seen just how much the relationship between player and coach had deteriorated through back and forth dick measuring contests to take control and seize the rare oppurtunity that presented itself when the player agreed to come to the facility. You've allowed your coach to try and solve the problem for awhile....it hasn't worked. Since you have no guarantee whatsoever that this player will agree to come and have a face to face meeting with you again and since it is well settled that your relationship with him, however you would describe it, is markedly better than the relationship he has with his coach, it seems to me that Bowlen would be virtually compelled to step in and talk to Jay one on one rather than Josh. But they didn't allow that. They set a meeting with just Josh instead. That's not hearsay or innuendo, that's a fact. I'm disappointed he didn't seize the oppurtunity. That bothered me and it still does. What you are talking about now is whether its better to have Cutler or Orton, you prefer Orton, I prefer Cutler, but its not the issue in any case.

I actually like Josh now....or at least the majority of the stuff he does. He's bright, articulate, intelligent, good with Xs and Os, has a fun personality and has started to reward some of the guys who have worked hard for this team. I like these things alot. I also like his ability to work with QB's and his courage to draft someone like Tebow and follow up on it with the work required to make him a good player. I don't respect some other things...his draft philosophy, what happened last year and some other things, but at least he has shown growth. Bowlen, however, has gone in the opposite direction.

baja
09-10-2010, 01:44 AM
<b>It is unfortunate that there are some frailties in Jay Cutler's personality, but that's not really relevant to the issues I raised. If Bowlen were truly interested in talking to Jay and resolving the crisis in a peaceful manner that kept him on this team (like they said they were trying to do...."we are not trading Jay Cutler, we want him on this team"), then I would have expected a reasonable owner, who had seen just how much the relationship between player and coach had deteriorated through back and forth dick measuring contests to take control and seize the rare opportunity that presented itself when the player agreed to come to the facility. You've allowed your coach to try and solve the problem for awhile....it hasn't worked. Since you have no guarantee whatsoever that this player will agree to come and have a face to face meeting with you again and since it is well settled that your relationship with him, however you would describe it, is markedly better than the relationship he has with his coach, it seems to me that Bowlen would be virtually compelled to step in and talk to Jay one on one rather than Josh. But they didn't allow that. They set a meeting with just Josh instead. That's not hearsay or innuendo, that's a fact. I'm disappointed he didn't seize the opportunity. That bothered me and it still does. What you are talking about now is whether its better to have Cutler or Orton, you prefer Orton, I prefer Cutler, but its not the issue in any case. </b>

I actually like Josh now....or at least the majority of the stuff he does. He's bright, articulate, intelligent, good with Xs and Os, has a fun personality and has started to reward some of the guys who have worked hard for this team. I like these things a lot. I also like his ability to work with QB's and his courage to draft someone like Tebow and follow up on it with the work required to make him a good player. I don't respect some other things...his draft philosophy, what happened last year and some other things, but at least he has shown growth. Bowlen, however, has gone in the opposite direction.

See here is where we differ. I think you have been busy picking bits and peaces of what you think you know to paint Bowlen as the fall guy so as to support your dismay at the loss of what you believe to be a great player.

Here's what I think happened, Bowlen and Josh (after he spent time with Jay in the off season) both came to the conclusion that Jay would be a tough (if not impossible) fit for the 'team first' concept that is basic to what Josh wanted to bring here, so much so that they agreed to trade Jay but they also wanted to get as much as he could for him. To that end I think both Josh & Pat played their hand masterfully.

Your thinking that Bowlen should have walked across the hall etc etc is off base because, as I said, he had already made up his mind that he wanted Jay out of Denver. After the locker room mess that Mike allowed to happen Pat found Josh's team first concept to be very appealing and they both knew for it to work they had to dump Jay.

I'll never forget the way Pat spit out the words, "Well I guess jay is the man around here now" It about killed him to say that. Bowlen is no fool and he saw through Cutler long before any of us did and so did Josh.

I think they believe that Jay Cutler will not become the great QB you think he will and neither do I.

SoCalBronco
09-10-2010, 01:54 AM
See here is where we differ. I think you have been busy picking bits and peaces of what you think you know to paint Bowlen as the fall guy so as to support your dismay at the loss of what you believe to be a great player.

Here's what I think happened, Bowlen and Josh (after he spent time with Jay in the off season) both came to the conclusion that Jay would be a tough (if not impossible) fit for the 'team first' concept that is basic to what Josh wanted to bring here, so much so that they agreed to trade Jay but they also wanted to get as much as he could for him. To that end I think both Josh & Pat played their hand masterfully.

Just to play along with your theory for a moment, what would be the basis of their conclusion that he would be a tough fit for the "team first" concept? After all, he had voluntarily come in to work with the staff and learn the system before he was obligated to. Nor has there ever been any suggestion from anyone that there was some kind of acrimonious situation that arose between them prior to the whole Cassel thing. On what basis would they come to this belief? If Bowlen and McDaniels secretly decided on this course up front, how can anyone here be offended that Pat's phone calls went unreturned, since you are finally admitting that they were insincere and fraudulent in nature?

Your thinking that Bowlen should have walked across the hall etc etc is off base because, as I said, he had already made up his mind that he wanted Jay out of Denver. After the locker room mess that Mike allowed to happen Pat found Josh's team first concept to be very appealing and they both knew for it to work they had to dump Jay.

I'll never forget the way Pat spit out the words, "Well I guess jay is the man around here now" It about killed him to say that. Bowlen is no fool and he saw through Cutler long before any of us did and so did Josh.

But I thought you said earlier that Pat and Josh came to this conclusion after Josh worked with him awhile. If Pat had decided this way before that, why would he tell people that he wanted to find a young coach who could develop Jay Cutler if it was his intent all along to get rid of him? Was this yet another misrepresentation to the fan base?

I think they believe that Jay Cutler will not become the great QB you think he will and neither do I.

He may be or he may not. There are a number of factors that will play into that, many of which are outside of Jay's control....but again, that's not the issue, here.

baja
09-10-2010, 02:26 AM
Just to play along with your theory for a moment, what would be the basis of their conclusion that he would be a tough fit for the "team first" concept? After all, he had voluntarily come in to work with the staff and learn the system before he was obligated to.

They all started out rosy but in the process of getting to know one another they realized there was a big rift in their vision of the future. Jay saw himself as the next Elway, the guy that would put the team on his back and carry them to victory and that he was ready to do that now. Josh on the other hand saw a player with skills that needed to be coached up but he also began to realize he had before him a player that had a huge ego and was not going to buy into the team first concept that was so crucial to his coaching philosophy. My take is as the days wore on the both became less and less enchanted with the other. I think Pat was already somewhat disenchanted with the pampered Cutler (guessing on my part) so when Josh raised his concern to Pat about jay maybe not being a good fit to the concept he was bring to Denver Pat was already receptive to the idea so they explored a draft day trade with matt cassell and the rest is history (with the slant that they always wanted to trade Jay and the other stuff was posturing to maximize trade value)


Nor has there ever been any suggestion from anyone that there was some kind of acrimonious situation that arose between them prior to the whole Cassel thing. On what basis would they come to this belief.

We are seldom privy to such information. As far as the basis for my scenario, they had ample time to realize this while working together. Why do you assume they were all buddy buddy until the rift. I believe they got to know one another and realized they (Josh & Jay) were miles apart on their expectations.


If Bowlen and McDaniels secretly decided on this course up front, how can anyone here be offended that Pat's phone calls went unreturned, since you are admitting finally agree that they were insincere and fraudulent in nature?

Like you & me they are working off half truths and assumptions. I don't think they were fraudulent at all I would say both sides played the press and fans to maximize what that wanted. Jay wanted out of denver and to a team he felt was a good fit for what he wanted and what ever other reasons he may have had (new contract etc). Josh & Pat wanted to maximize his trade value.

If I remember you would gleefully clap at Shanny's little fibs and manipulations so don't get righteous now please.


But I thought you said earlier that Pat and Josh came to this conclusion after Josh worked with him awhile. If Pat had decided this way before that, why would he tell people that he wanted to find a young coach who could develop Jay Cutler if it was his intent all along to get rid of him? Was this yet another misrepresentation to the fan base?

<b>I believe these feelings evolved over time Pat didn't just wake up one morning and say Damn I realize I hate jay Cutler and want him off the team. Remember this is the same guy that took over two years to fire Mike. Pat is a deliberate man.</b>

Me in Bold

BroncoBuff
09-10-2010, 02:31 AM
See here is where we differ. I think you have been busy picking bits and peaces of what you think you know to paint Bowlen as the fall guy so as to support your dismay at the loss of what you believe to be a great player.

Bits and peaces ... really?

And I'm not sure anybody was ready to declare Jay "great."

baja
09-10-2010, 02:36 AM
Bits and peaces ... really?

And I'm not sure anybody was ready to declare Jay "great."

This was a conversation between So Cal and I. If you think So Cal doesn't think Jay have greatness written all over him than you haven't been paying attention.

baja
09-10-2010, 02:38 AM
Bits and peaces ... really?

And I'm not sure anybody was ready to declare Jay "great."

Do you think you know the whole story? Don't be silly!

baja
09-10-2010, 02:41 AM
Bits and peaces ... really?

And I'm not sure anybody was ready to declare Jay "great."

Oh I see it's a spelling slam. Nice contribution there Buff.

kamakazi_kal
09-10-2010, 09:07 AM
he knows he ****ed up in denver. he may light it up in detroit, but he knows he messed up here and it was too late to undo it.

How did he **** up? I still don't see how you use a first round pick on a guy and get rid of him after 1 season. Someone didn't do their homework before the draft I guess.

Cito Pelon
09-10-2010, 11:45 AM
Denver has used picks on Smith, McBath, Cox, but most picks have gone to offense.

How many DL have we drafted? LB's?

The FACT is 80% of Beavis' picks have been offense.


****ing look it up.

And most have been cut other than the footsie twins and baby Jesus. Oh, and Moreno.

Even Royal dropped off.

Denver went 2-8 late and could of easily gone 6-10.

The coach needs a good spanking, we have no GM. and Bowlen is the captain of the Exxon Valdez.

Ya know, that has a Blues rhythm to it, Mock. That would go well with the old Little Milton song:

Instead of "Grits ain't gravy, eggs ain't poultry, and Mona Lisa was a man"

Insert, "Coach needs a spanking, we have no GM, and Bowlen captains the Exxon Valdez".

Eh, it needs a little work, but you have talent. I can picture you dressed up like Tommy Chong on a porch singing the blues.

Cito Pelon
09-10-2010, 11:56 AM
If they did, this place would would become tumbleweeds and dust in no time.

This place would empty out faster than a .... than a .... (punchline anybody?)

Cutler nutsack
McDaniels people skills seminar
Atlanta Falcons trophy case
Chris Simms stat line

Rohirrim
09-10-2010, 12:07 PM
Jay's got a great arm...

(we need a smilie for "scratchs balls")

BroncoBuff
09-10-2010, 12:38 PM
He holds the franchise record for completion perrcentage.

Cito Pelon
09-10-2010, 12:38 PM
It is unfortunate that there are some frailties in Jay Cutler's personality, but that's not really relevant to the issues I raised. If Bowlen were truly interested in talking to Jay and resolving the crisis in a peaceful manner that kept him on this team (like they said they were trying to do...."we are not trading Jay Cutler, we want him on this team"), then I would have expected a reasonable owner, who had seen just how much the relationship between player and coach had deteriorated through back and forth dick measuring contests to take control and seize the rare oppurtunity that presented itself when the player agreed to come to the facility. You've allowed your coach to try and solve the problem for awhile....it hasn't worked. Since you have no guarantee whatsoever that this player will agree to come and have a face to face meeting with you again and since it is well settled that your relationship with him, however you would describe it, is markedly better than the relationship he has with his coach, it seems to me that Bowlen would be virtually compelled to step in and talk to Jay one on one rather than Josh. But they didn't allow that. They set a meeting with just Josh instead. That's not hearsay or innuendo, that's a fact. I'm disappointed he didn't seize the oppurtunity. That bothered me and it still does. What you are talking about now is whether its better to have Cutler or Orton, you prefer Orton, I prefer Cutler, but its not the issue in any case.

I actually like Josh now....or at least the majority of the stuff he does. He's bright, articulate, intelligent, good with Xs and Os, has a fun personality and has started to reward some of the guys who have worked hard for this team. I like these things alot. I also like his ability to work with QB's and his courage to draft someone like Tebow and follow up on it with the work required to make him a good player. I don't respect some other things...his draft philosophy, what happened last year and some other things, but at least he has shown growth. Bowlen, however, has gone in the opposite direction.

I guess the bottom line is Bowlen did not want Jay to be the face of the franchise at QB. And, frankly, I don't blame Bowlen for thinking that way.

As I said many, many times in 2008 you guys that don't live in Colorado didn't get to see the real, live Jay. I think you would have a different perspective if you watched his post-game pressers on local TV. Honestly, SoCal, the post-game pressers after losses would have turned you off the guy, I really believe that. When combined with Jay's poor play in losses, his unbelievably childish post-game pressers were a real turnoff. You'd have to actually watch them to understand what a poor representative he was as a Bronco QB.

Rabb
09-10-2010, 12:41 PM
He holds the franchise record for completion perrcentage.

to both teams on the field

BroncoBuff
09-10-2010, 12:50 PM
Jay have greatness written all over him than you haven't been paying attention.

SoCal and I feel the same about Jay ... he was the franchise guy, our guy, with all the talent and tough as nails. It would've been nice to keep him, but he turned out to be pretty immature when the coaching change went down.

Ray Finkle
09-10-2010, 12:59 PM
It is unfortunate that there are some frailties in Jay Cutler's personality, but that's not really relevant to the issues I raised. If Bowlen were truly interested in talking to Jay and resolving the crisis in a peaceful manner that kept him on this team (like they said they were trying to do...."we are not trading Jay Cutler, we want him on this team"), then I would have expected a reasonable owner, who had seen just how much the relationship between player and coach had deteriorated through back and forth dick measuring contests to take control and seize the rare oppurtunity that presented itself when the player agreed to come to the facility. You've allowed your coach to try and solve the problem for awhile....it hasn't worked. Since you have no guarantee whatsoever that this player will agree to come and have a face to face meeting with you again and since it is well settled that your relationship with him, however you would describe it, is markedly better than the relationship he has with his coach, it seems to me that Bowlen would be virtually compelled to step in and talk to Jay one on one rather than Josh. But they didn't allow that. They set a meeting with just Josh instead. That's not hearsay or innuendo, that's a fact. I'm disappointed he didn't seize the oppurtunity. That bothered me and it still does. What you are talking about now is whether its better to have Cutler or Orton, you prefer Orton, I prefer Cutler, but its not the issue in any case.

I actually like Josh now....or at least the majority of the stuff he does. He's bright, articulate, intelligent, good with Xs and Os, has a fun personality and has started to reward some of the guys who have worked hard for this team. I like these things alot. I also like his ability to work with QB's and his courage to draft someone like Tebow and follow up on it with the work required to make him a good player. I don't respect some other things...his draft philosophy, what happened last year and some other things, but at least he has shown growth. Bowlen, however, has gone in the opposite direction.


don't trust the attorney and his double talk! RUN AWAY!

Drek
09-10-2010, 01:20 PM
SoCal and I feel the same about Jay ... he was the franchise guy, our guy, with all the talent and tough as nails. It would've been nice to keep him, but he turned out to be pretty immature when the coaching change went down.

When did he display toughness?

I mean, everyone in the NFL is pretty damn tough. Its a grueling job. I haven't seen anything from Cutler to make me think he's particularly tough comparatively. Especially if its mental toughness being discussed.

TheReverend
09-10-2010, 01:40 PM
When did he display toughness?

I mean, everyone in the NFL is pretty damn tough. Its a grueling job. I haven't seen anything from Cutler to make me think he's particularly tough comparatively. Especially if its mental toughness being discussed.

I'd say playing several months through an undiagnosed/untreated life threatening disease that had him so exhausted it was extremely difficult to get out of bed let alone play a game of football is pretty tough, but hey, what do I know?

Drek
09-10-2010, 01:46 PM
I'd say playing several months through an undiagnosed/untreated life threatening disease that had him so exhausted it was extremely difficult to get out of bed let alone play a game of football is pretty tough, but hey, what do I know?

Showing up to do your job just because you don't feel well doesn't mean you're tough relative to the average NFL player.

Everyone in the NFL is fatigued and in physical pain late in the year. Just showing up doesn't get you a gold star for toughness. Maybe if he'd done something to lead the team on a winning streak down the stretch it would carry a bit more weight.

Instead its Jay Cutler as we know him best. At his best when the games don't matter, at his worst when they matter most.

worm
09-10-2010, 01:46 PM
Lots of examples of Cutler being tough. At Vandy, Denver and in Chicago.

For example..

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/columns/story?columnist=greenberg_jon&id=4614780
Cutler proved his toughness, but with an effective line that shouldn't be needed

There is plenty of valid reasons to critique Cutler's game and personality. However, this aspect is one of the silliest.

TheReverend
09-10-2010, 02:54 PM
Showing up to do your job just because you don't feel well doesn't mean you're tough relative to the average NFL player.

Everyone in the NFL is fatigued and in physical pain late in the year. Just showing up doesn't get you a gold star for toughness. Maybe if he'd done something to lead the team on a winning streak down the stretch it would carry a bit more weight.

Instead its Jay Cutler as we know him best. At his best when the games don't matter, at his worst when they matter most.

One gold star is awarded here, and it's once again for your adept skill at rationalizing the current FO's POV. Congratulations.

BroncoBuff
09-10-2010, 04:15 PM
to both teams on the field

That's funny Rabb-ster, but a franchise record is pretty impressive.

BroncoBuff
09-10-2010, 05:02 PM
Showing up to do your job just because you don't feel well doesn't mean you're tough relative to the average NFL player.

Everyone in the NFL is fatigued and in physical pain late in the year. Just showing up doesn't get you a gold star for toughness.

You really went too far there. Jay wasn't merely "fatigued and in pain at the end of the year," he was suffering with an undiagnosed disease, a serious one. And Drek, he lost 15% of his body weight in less than three months, sleeping 12 hours a day and pissing gallons. Yet he never missed a day of work.

That's more than just tough ... in fact, is kinda dumb he saw all that happening but waited as long as he did to seek medical attention. That's it ... he's stupid! ;D

DivineLegion
09-10-2010, 05:07 PM
You really went too far there. Jay wasn't merely "fatigued and in pain at the end of the year," he was suffering with an undiagnosed disease, a serious one. And Drek, he lost 15% of his body weight in less than three months, sleeping 12 hours a day and pissing gallons. Yet he never missed a day of work.

That's more than just tough ... in fact, is kinda dumb he saw all that happening but waited as long as he did to seek medical attention. That's it ... he's stupid! ;D

It still blows my mind that the kid could lose 15% of his body weight and keep the double chin.

baja
09-10-2010, 05:07 PM
You really went too far there. Jay wasn't merely "fatigued and in pain at the end of the year," he was suffering with an undiagnosed disease, a serious one. And Drek, he lost 15% of his body weight in less than three months, sleeping 12 hours a day and pissing gallons. Yet he never missed a day of work.

That's more than just tough ... in fact, is kinda dumb he saw all that happening but waited as long as he did to seek medical attention. That's it ... he's stupid! ;D


Gotta agree with Buff on this one Drek. That untreated beetis must have been a ball buster.

Drek
09-10-2010, 06:12 PM
One gold star is awarded here, and it's once again for your adept skill at rationalizing the current FO's POV. Congratulations.

Where did I reference the current FO?

Just stating the facts here. Toughness on the pro sports stage is measured by the adversity you persevere through and still manage to win. Cutler hasn't even won period, let alone persevere through adversity on the way there.

You really went too far there. Jay wasn't merely "fatigued and in pain at the end of the year," he was suffering with an undiagnosed disease, a serious one. And Drek, he lost 15% of his body weight in less than three months, sleeping 12 hours a day and pissing gallons. Yet he never missed a day of work.

That's more than just tough ... in fact, is kinda dumb he saw all that happening but waited as long as he did to seek medical attention. That's it ... he's stupid! ;D

Great for Cutler, he wasn't smart enough to get a serious problem checked out mid-season. Doesn't make him tough by pro sports standards where we've seen guys literally have synthetic lubricant injected into joints so they can play for years like that at an exceedingly high level.

John Elway played entire 1997 season after having his right bicep blow apart on his throwing arm in a pre-season game. All he did was win the Super Bowl. Michael Jordan dropped 38 including the game winning three pointer on the Jazz in game six of the '97 NBA finals while suffering from food poisoning. Those where moments of exceptional toughness in recent sports history.

All pro athletes are expected to be tough. There aren't any prizes for participation. If there were then David Carr and Chris Simms would be potential hall of famers. Great players display their toughness by playing their best when conditions (be they internal or external) are at their worst.

Cutler is physically tough, but not exceptionally so by NFL standards. Mentally he's opened the door for considerable doubt as to if he even comes close to meeting that standard.

TheReverend
09-10-2010, 07:25 PM
Where did I reference the current FO?

Just stating the facts here. Toughness on the pro sports stage is measured by the adversity you persevere through and still manage to win. Cutler hasn't even won period, let alone persevere through adversity on the way there.



Great for Cutler, he wasn't smart enough to get a serious problem checked out mid-season. Doesn't make him tough by pro sports standards where we've seen guys literally have synthetic lubricant injected into joints so they can play for years like that at an exceedingly high level.

John Elway played entire 1997 season after having his right bicep blow apart on his throwing arm in a pre-season game. All he did was win the Super Bowl. Michael Jordan dropped 38 including the game winning three pointer on the Jazz in game six of the '97 NBA finals while suffering from food poisoning. Those where moments of exceptional toughness in recent sports history.

All pro athletes are expected to be tough. There aren't any prizes for participation. If there were then David Carr and Chris Simms would be potential hall of famers. Great players display their toughness by playing their best when conditions (be they internal or external) are at their worst.

Cutler is physically tough, but not exceptionally so by NFL standards. Mentally he's opened the door for considerable doubt as to if he even comes close to meeting that standard.

You're trying to make one of the top 5 most absurd arguments I've ever read.

Sir, I salute you, for this is an extreme height of absurdity rivaled only by the elite Watermocks of the world.

Cito Pelon
09-10-2010, 07:30 PM
You really went too far there. Jay wasn't merely "fatigued and in pain at the end of the year," he was suffering with an undiagnosed disease, a serious one. And Drek, he lost 15% of his body weight in less than three months, sleeping 12 hours a day and pissing gallons. Yet he never missed a day of work.

That's more than just tough ... in fact, is kinda dumb he saw all that happening but waited as long as he did to seek medical attention. That's it ... he's stupid! ;D

You gotta be a real man to be diabetic and still keep on boozing.

Drek
09-10-2010, 07:45 PM
You're trying to make one of the top 5 most absurd arguments I've ever read.

Sir, I salute you, for this is an extreme height of absurdity rivaled only by the elite Watermocks of the world.

I'm just saying, a lot of people are tough. Almost everyone in the NFL is tough. Just because you show up doesn't mean you're exceptionally tough.

Cutler's diabetes was a compelling story that gave Broncos fans a reason to not feel so down about a 7-9 season. Fact is that's a real weak premise to build the perception of him as a warrior QB who perseveres through adversity.

He's got a serious disease that wasn't caught until that year in the NFL and he played much of the season suffering the ill effects of it. He didn't play particularly great over that period, the Broncos didn't win anything worthwhile over that period, and he hasn't done anything else to earn the perception of him as a [comparatively] tough guy by NFL standards.

David Garrard has Crohn's Disease. Does that automatically make him the toughest guy in the league? Emmit Smith and Jerome Bettis weren't viewed as tough guys because they had long, successful careers despite having asthma but instead because they did what tough guys do, performed despite that adversity.

A lot of guys play in the NFL despite serious medical conditions. Cutler happens to be one of them. Its crazy that he went as long as he did before having it diagnosed, but having a yo yo season while playing with an undiagnosed condition doesn't mean you're exceptionally tough, just not aware enough to talk with team doctors sooner rather than later.

TheReverend
09-10-2010, 08:07 PM
I'm just saying, a lot of people are tough. Almost everyone in the NFL is tough. Just because you show up doesn't mean you're exceptionally tough.

Cutler's diabetes was a compelling story that gave Broncos fans a reason to not feel so down about a 7-9 season. Fact is that's a real weak premise to build the perception of him as a warrior QB who perseveres through adversity.

He's got a serious disease that wasn't caught until that year in the NFL and he played much of the season suffering the ill effects of it. He didn't play particularly great over that period, the Broncos didn't win anything worthwhile over that period, and he hasn't done anything else to earn the perception of him as a [comparatively] tough guy by NFL standards.

David Garrard has Crohn's Disease. Does that automatically make him the toughest guy in the league? Emmit Smith and Jerome Bettis weren't viewed as tough guys because they had long, successful careers despite having asthma but instead because they did what tough guys do, performed despite that adversity.

A lot of guys play in the NFL despite serious medical conditions. Cutler happens to be one of them. Its crazy that he went as long as he did before having it diagnosed, but having a yo yo season while playing with an undiagnosed condition doesn't mean you're exceptionally tough, just not aware enough to talk with team doctors sooner rather than later.

The argument is toughness, not a Hollywood ending.

Regardless, let's humor your little facade of Drek's ever changing argument.

2007:

Jay Cutler's first year as a starter in the NFL. Also has undiagnosed and untreated, potentially fatal type 3 diabetes to the point where he's lost over 30 lbs and is fighting just to get out of bed in the morning... let alone practice every day and play an NFL game.

3500 yards, 20 TDs, 12 INTs, 63.6% completion percentage and another touchdown on the ground.

That's persevering through some pretty tough circumstances in my opinion.

Ray Finkle
09-10-2010, 08:27 PM
I'd say playing several months through an undiagnosed/untreated life threatening disease that had him so exhausted it was extremely difficult to get out of bed let alone play a game of football is pretty tough, but hey, what do I know?

when you have said illness and continue to drink and not properly take care of yourself, what does that say?

TheReverend
09-10-2010, 08:37 PM
when you have said illness and continue to drink and not properly take care of yourself, what does that say?

The only type 3 diabetics I know personally are big party guys so I dunno.

I'd personally be more considered with how it affects his athletic performance than his diabetes, but that's just based off personal experience not any fundamental understanding of how they affect each other.

Drek
09-10-2010, 09:07 PM
The argument is toughness, not a Hollywood ending.

Regardless, let's humor your little facade of Drek's ever changing argument.

2007:

Jay Cutler's first year as a starter in the NFL. Also has undiagnosed and untreated, potentially fatal type 3 diabetes to the point where he's lost over 30 lbs and is fighting just to get out of bed in the morning... let alone practice every day and play an NFL game.

3500 yards, 20 TDs, 12 INTs, 63.6% completion percentage and another touchdown on the ground.

That's persevering through some pretty tough circumstances in my opinion.
Didn't want to include the 11 fumbles, 4 lost, in that for some reason? On all of 27 sacks too.

I love talking numbers when it comes to Cutler. All I see from his '07 numbers is a classic Jay Cutler year. Six games with a QB rating 95.5 or better (4 in losing attempts), six games with a QB rating 79.0 or worse (also 4 in losing attempts).

Doesn't sound like a guy persevering through it, sounds like a guy who's feeling the ups and downs, letting it control the quality of his play, never stepping his game up to the next level that pushes his team over the hump to win tight games.

Diabetes plagued season or not it was a season that to this point has underscored his entire career. Inconsistent feast or famine QB with the feast coming predominantly in early season or meaningless games and the famine always occurring in the most important games of the year.

WABronco
09-10-2010, 09:18 PM
Diabetes: chapter 12 in the Jay Cutler Excuse Handbook.

http://www.davidbadgerow.com/images/deal_with_it_crab.gif

...actually no. But whatever, he's still a douche nozzle.

baja
09-10-2010, 09:25 PM
The argument is toughness, not a Hollywood ending.

Regardless, let's humor your little facade of Drek's ever changing argument.

2007:

Jay Cutler's first year as a starter in the NFL. Also has undiagnosed and untreated, potentially fatal type 3 diabetes to the point where he's lost over 30 lbs and is fighting just to get out of bed in the morning... let alone practice every day and play an NFL game.

3500 yards, 20 TDs, 12 INTs, 63.6% completion percentage and another touchdown on the ground.

That's persevering through some pretty tough circumstances in my opinion.

Err Jay Cutler has type 1 diabetes

If he did have type 3 that would explain a lot;

Diabetes 3 Linked to Alzheimer's
The brain requires insulin to be secreted in order to ensure that the brain's cells survive. Diabetes 3 means that the brain is no longer secreting enough insulin and therefore, the brain's cells will deteriorate. As the brain cells stop working, the brain's receptors also decline in function. Some individuals believe that Alzheimer's is actually diabetes type 3. Yet, evidence suggests that Alzheimer's sufferers have a particular protein within the brain that actually removes insulin receptors from the brain's cells making the cells stop accepting the necessary insulin to enable the cells survival and also preventing the brain's memory from working properly.


Read more: Facts On Type 3 Diabetes | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5088955_type-diabetes.html#ixzz0zBhJkJqW

Ray Finkle
09-10-2010, 09:38 PM
The only type 3 diabetics I know personally are big party guys so I dunno.

I'd personally be more considered with how it affects his athletic performance than his diabetes, but that's just based off personal experience not any fundamental understanding of how they affect each other.

I have a buddy that is type 1 and almost went into a coma after a rough night of drinking....it's like playing russian roulette...

Requiem
09-10-2010, 09:39 PM
Yeah, drinking and diabetes is not a good match.

TheReverend
09-10-2010, 10:21 PM
Didn't want to include the 11 fumbles, 4 lost, in that for some reason? On all of 27 sacks too.

I love talking numbers when it comes to Cutler. All I see from his '07 numbers is a classic Jay Cutler year. Six games with a QB rating 95.5 or better (4 in losing attempts), six games with a QB rating 79.0 or worse (also 4 in losing attempts).

Doesn't sound like a guy persevering through it, sounds like a guy who's feeling the ups and downs, letting it control the quality of his play, never stepping his game up to the next level that pushes his team over the hump to win tight games.

Diabetes plagued season or not it was a season that to this point has underscored his entire career. Inconsistent feast or famine QB with the feast coming predominantly in early season or meaningless games and the famine always occurring in the most important games of the year.

4 lost fumbles isn't really that bad for a healthy QB let alone the outstanding circumstances... in fact, as a bench mark, last year was Orton's first year playing the majority of the season where DIDN'T lose more fumbles than that and taking 27 sacks is his career best, soooooo...

And that's not to use Orton as a benchmark for success, but he's supposed to be that game manager QB. Also odd to see that he has a worse a TD:Turnover ratio than Jay, huh?

That's besides the point. The point is, you want to discredit Cutler's "toughness" because you don't like him... and that's fine, just admit it. Because the argument you're attempting to make is nothing shy of absurd.

TheReverend
09-10-2010, 10:22 PM
Err Jay Cutler has type 1 diabetes

Ah, thank you, you're correct, that's what I meant. Mental error.

Taco John
09-10-2010, 10:38 PM
4 lost fumbles isn't really that bad for a healthy QB let alone the outstanding circumstances... in fact, as a bench mark, last year was Orton's first year playing the majority of the season where DIDN'T lose more fumbles than that and taking 27 sacks is his career best, soooooo...

And that's not to use Orton as a benchmark for success, but he's supposed to be that game manager QB. Also odd to see that he has a worse a TD:Turnover ratio than Jay, huh?

That's besides the point. The point is, you want to discredit Cutler's "toughness" because you don't like him... and that's fine, just admit it. Because the argument you're attempting to make is nothing shy of absurd.

He's practically admitted as much:


Great.

I never wanted Cutler on the team and pulled for him because Shanahan was the "mastermind" and felt like he needed the guy. Drafting Cutler and then treating him like his favorite son from day one was the straw that broke the camel's back for me having any faith in Shanahan getting us back to the winner's circle as the Broncos HC.

I said on here before that draft and I still believe to this day that the best move was signing David Garrard as a free agent away from the Jags (back when they still had him backing up Leftwich) and used our early 1st to grab Haloti Ngata. The big, powerful DL we've been missing for so long.

Instead we went for the sizzle move of adding a new QB. Haloti Ngata is arguably the best DL in the entire NFL and we've changed coaches, QBs, etc..

The primary attribute that you can best use to describe Shanahan's final years here is hypocrisy. The coach who always preached camp competition and positional battles stopped believing in them. The crowning moment in that hypocritical charade was when he used a top 15 pick on a QB after Plummer had taken us to the AFC Championship. Jake Plummer didn't choke up under the pressure, he just gave up because he knew no matter what he did Shanahan was replacing him with the new pet as soon as he could do it without totally losing the locker room.

TheReverend
09-10-2010, 10:41 PM
He's practically admitted as much:

Oh there's way worse than that out there.

Last year during the trade rumors/talks he was so mad he wanted McD to keep and bench Cutler instead of trading him to teach him a lesson.

Sure, we don't get ANY compensation in that scenario and we give the players/players union a reason to throw an absolute **** fit, but hey, we teach someone a lesson! Because that's in the best interest of the Denver Broncos...

baja
09-10-2010, 10:45 PM
...... because you don't like him = The entrance fee for Cutler haters

<b>......Because you do like him</b>= The entrance fee for Cutler lovers

This is the bottom line

TheReverend
09-10-2010, 10:47 PM
...... because you don't like him = The entrance fee for Cutler haters

<b>......Because you do like him</b>= The entrance fee for Cutler lovers

This is the bottom line

...only I supported my stance with facts so don't downplay anything with this silly little post. The "toughness" argument is ridiculous when you take a look at what he went through in 2007.

Boomhauer
09-10-2010, 10:48 PM
...... because you don't like him = The entrance fee for Cutler haters
<b>......Because you do like him</b>= The entrance fee for Cutler lovers

This is the bottom line

.....Because he's a much better QB than what we have now = For Broncos Fans

baja
09-10-2010, 10:51 PM
...only I supported my stance with facts so don't downplay anything with this silly little post. The "toughness" argument is ridiculous when you take a look at what he went through in 2007.

Facts, ya sure.

baja
09-10-2010, 10:52 PM
.....Because he's a much better QB than what we have now = For Broncos Fans

More facts....

baja
09-10-2010, 10:53 PM
Any Broncos fans here?

Boomhauer
09-10-2010, 10:55 PM
Any Broncos fans here?

Present..........

TheReverend
09-10-2010, 10:55 PM
Facts, ya sure.

Yeah, facts

1. Did he have untreated type one diabetes?

2. Were the effects extremely malevolent?

3. Did he play every game?

and unrelated to "toughness" unless you follow Drek's definition:

4. Did he have a good season at his position?

TheReverend
09-10-2010, 10:56 PM
Any Broncos fans here?

Not sure what that has to do with disagreeing with libel.

baja
09-10-2010, 10:58 PM
The 2010 season starts in 34 hours and the hottest threads are arguing about Jay Cutler the QB of the Chicago Bears. Amazing!

TheReverend
09-10-2010, 11:23 PM
The 2010 season starts in 34 hours and the hottest threads are arguing about Jay Cutler the QB of the Chicago Bears. Amazing!

If it makes you feel any better this thread is SUPPOSED to be arguing about the CB of the Detroit Lions.

strafen
09-10-2010, 11:30 PM
If it makes you feel any better this thread is SUPPOSED to be arguing about the CB of the Detroit Lions.Bwahahaha!!! ROFL!

watermock
09-11-2010, 12:00 AM
If it makes you feel any better this thread is SUPPOSED to be arguing about the CB of the Detroit Lions.

We got more than good value from destroying the '08 offense, but Beavis has picked primarily offense and used FA to patch the D with old vets.

Cox and McBath are pretty much it. Beadles and Watson, but Denver gave up alot for players like Smith, Quinnx2 ect...we have yet to see TRUE inpact player out of this circus.

And while Tebow's story makes a good storyline and jersey sales, that doesn't = wins, despite a very easy schedule.

TomServo
09-11-2010, 02:26 AM
so after everything is said and done we traded a no. one pick for what exactly?sheffs backup? just checking, neither coach will admit to a mistake drafting so high for players that had no business going that high. both these players wont get cut til next year.

TomServo
09-11-2010, 02:50 AM
sean knight for ted gregory

azbroncfan
09-11-2010, 03:04 AM
We got more than good value from destroying the '08 offense, but Beavis has picked primarily offense and used FA to patch the D with old vets.

Cox and McBath are pretty much it. Beadles and Watson, but Denver gave up alot for players like Smith, Quinnx2 ect...we have yet to see TRUE inpact player out of this circus.

And while Tebow's story makes a good storyline and jersey sales, that doesn't = wins, despite a very easy schedule.

Why do you keep saying easy schedule? You need to look again without peanut butter and vodka.

The MVPlaya
09-11-2010, 03:25 AM
<iframe class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="385" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/e6i2WRreARo" frameborder="0"></iframe>

LonghornBronco
10-10-2010, 02:05 PM
Fonz with a pic-six.... When it rains it pours

Denver724
10-10-2010, 02:12 PM
Fonz with a pic-six.... When it rains it pours

McD flat sucks. I have zero faith in this guy. Trades a 1 (which turns into Earl Thomas) for the Smith, gives up on him and he starts for the new team and makes an impact. Bowlen must see this right?

Cito Pelon
10-10-2010, 02:28 PM
Phonz was intimidated here in Denver, the pressure was too much for him.

Broncos4tw
10-10-2010, 02:32 PM
McD is power hungry imo. He is young and for whatever bizarre reason, given far too much input in the decision making process. He is a cutamaniac. Make googly-eyes at his wife? Cut. Don't follow his orders like a subservient peon? Cut. Having an off year? Cut.

He is cut-happy. And it's frustrating to see these players produce elsewhere.

Rulon Velvet Jones
10-10-2010, 03:44 PM
Baseless.

Broncos_OTM
10-31-2010, 02:41 PM
bumped one more INT.

Popps
10-31-2010, 02:43 PM
Yea, you have to criticize McDaniels for this, imo.

Smith was great in school, appears to be great now... and the only time he wasn't great was with us.

Something went very wrong with all of this. But, I mean... first-hand camp reports had this guy dogging it in practice on a regular basis. I just don't get it.

montrose
10-31-2010, 02:52 PM
Great trade to get him, stupid trade to dump him.

barryr
10-31-2010, 02:53 PM
I remember being one the few at the time who thought Smith could be a good player in the NFL while so many wanted Smith gone, was just a waste of a pick and so on. So those people can't have it both ways. Wanted Smith gone and now say McDaniels should have kept him.

fontaine
10-31-2010, 02:56 PM
Smith simply wasn't smart or tough enough for this team.

I mean when you have a smart, tough football veteran like Nate Jones, how can you NOT cut a 2nd year CB who you traded a first to move up and grab?

That's just the smart and tough thing to do.

Requiem
10-31-2010, 02:58 PM
If he is playing outside in Detroit, he is finally getting to use his skills.

What a moronic trade to get rid of him.

Drek
10-31-2010, 03:00 PM
Yea, you have to criticize McDaniels for this, imo.

Smith was great in school, appears to be great now... and the only time he wasn't great was with us.

Something went very wrong with all of this. But, I mean... first-hand camp reports had this guy dogging it in practice on a regular basis. I just don't get it.

He was an early 2nd, he thought he was the **** and didn't need to work for it.

After watching a 7th rounder and a UDFA challenge him for a job he decided that being a good NFL player was going to take some work.

I still think we should've dumped Nate Jones and kept Smith, but at least in dumping Smith we got a solid TE in Gronkowski.

WABronco
10-31-2010, 03:00 PM
Let's see...Jarvis Moss, Vernon Gholston, etc. They have established that they are ****TY, for many years. Smith was given one year and an offseason of "meh," and then shipped out because of a collection of FA and UDFA garbage.

BRILLIANT WORK, MCXANDERS

(and please, before someone rushes to point out the contrasts between Smith and busts at a diff position, I get it....)

bpc
10-31-2010, 03:00 PM
Two more great decisions of the McD regime... to trade or not to trade? He failed on both ends.

_Oro_
10-31-2010, 03:01 PM
:(

Drek
10-31-2010, 03:07 PM
Let's see...Jarvis Moss, Vernon Gholston, etc. They have established that they are ****TY, for many years. Smith was given one year and an offseason of "meh," and then shipped out because of a collection of FA and UDFA garbage.

BRILLIANT WORK, MCXANDERS

(and please, before someone rushes to point out the contrasts between Smith and busts at a diff position, I get it....)

So now Thompson and Vaughn are garbage?

****. I'd rather see them playing than Nate Jones at this point and Goodman is starting to make an argument for catching some bench time himself.

But the important question is: Did you stick up for Smith back when 85% of this board was ****ting on him this pre-season? If not SHUT THE **** UP.

WABronco
10-31-2010, 03:13 PM
So now Thompson and Vaughn are garbage?

****. I'd rather see them playing than Nate Jones at this point and Goodman is starting to make an argument for catching some bench time himself.

But the important question is: Did you stick up for Smith back when 85% of this board was ****ting on him this pre-season? If not SHUT THE **** UP.

Comparatively, at face value, yes they are garbage. It's a bad sign if you exchange a guy with draft pedigree for a group of guys who have a 5% chance to be in the league in a year or two. And if that's too exaggerated for your taste then idk, let's say a 2.5% chance of being real contributors.

I didn't give much thought to Smith, as it never really struck me as a possibility that he'd be cut. As if that matters in this discussion.

Rascal
10-31-2010, 03:16 PM
He was an early 2nd, he thought he was the **** and didn't need to work for it.

After watching a 7th rounder and a UDFA challenge him for a job he decided that being a good NFL player was going to take some work.

I still think we should've dumped Nate Jones and kept Smith, but at least in dumping Smith we got a solid TE in Gronkowski.

link?

lol @ Gronkowski reference. Seriously? Josh screwed up the other second round pick on Medicine Woman that he had to compound the error and trade Smith for beans as well.

Thompson and Vaughn aren't even starting for one of the worst defenses in the league.

Doggcow
10-31-2010, 03:27 PM
link?

lol @ Gronkowski reference. Seriously? Josh screwed up the other second round pick on Medicine Woman that he had to compound the error and trade Smith for beans as well.

Thompson and Vaughn aren't even starting for one of the worst defenses in the league.

oh ffs, everyone was riding Josh for Smith, now they're riding him for trading him?

**** off.

WolfpackGuy
10-31-2010, 03:28 PM
Hey, they got Gronkowski, so everyone's happy.

SoCalBronco
10-31-2010, 03:30 PM
Josh screwed up the other second round pick on Medicine Woman that he had to compound the error and trade Smith for beans as well.

.

I don't think I've noticed the Medicine Woman on the field ever since he blew that formation alignment in the JAX game.

http://img.hotmoviesale.com/dvds/AAE-D75502D/1/Dr-Quinn-Medicine-Woman-The-Movies.jpg

barryr
10-31-2010, 03:30 PM
I certainly don't remember this many people supporting Smith when he was a Bronco. I seem to remember the vast majority advocating dumping his ass for anything, which happened. So now bitch about that only now because Smith is playing pretty well in Detroit? Ridiculous.

Rascal
10-31-2010, 03:31 PM
oh ffs, everyone was riding Josh for Smith, now they're riding him for trading him?

**** off.

Everyone was riding him for making a poor trade...he compounded the error by trading him.

McDaniels is he worst coach in the league, and the combination of him and xavier is one of the worst GMs in the league. Period.

Drek
10-31-2010, 03:33 PM
Comparatively, at face value, yes they are garbage. It's a bad sign if you exchange a guy with draft pedigree for a group of guys who have a 5% chance to be in the league in a year or two. And if that's too exaggerated for your taste then idk, let's say a 2.5% chance of being real contributors.

I didn't give much thought to Smith, as it never really struck me as a possibility that he'd be cut. As if that matters in this discussion.

Do you watch the Denver Broncos play football? Because Vaughn and Thompson have both been some of the lone bright spots on defense and special teams. I wouldn't say they have a near zero chance of being contributors. Both are doing work NOW.

And all during pre-season everyone on here was throwing a fit about how McDaniels was going to show favoritism and cut Thompson or Vaughn instead of Smith. When he actually makes the right value move he gets slammed for that too? Can't win for losing with this ADHD generation of Broncos fans.

link?

lol @ Gronkowski reference. Seriously? Josh screwed up the other second round pick on Medicine Woman that he had to compound the error and trade Smith for beans as well.

Thompson and Vaughn aren't even starting for one of the worst defenses in the league.

I'm not your secretary dumbass, if you can't follow the general discourse on the team yet still feel the need to chime in then go look up Smith's own comments post-trade. He even said he gave an "inaccurate presentation" of himself his first year here.

Thompson and Vaughn are young guys. Smith didn't start as a rookie either, now did he? But Thompson and Vaughn are at least making plays when they get on the field.

And Gronkowski was a worthwhile contributor today. Its not my fault you define a good TE by how much they compare to Shannon Sharpe. Some offenses call for a TE who can block first, catch second. In that role Gronkowski is doing some solid work and looks like he could be a long term piece.

SoCalBronco
10-31-2010, 03:33 PM
I certainly don't remember this many people supporting Smith when he was a Bronco. I seem to remember the vast majority advocating dumping his ass for anything, which happened. So now b**** about that only now because Smith is playing pretty well in Detroit? Ridiculous.

Some of us were advocating keeping him even though he was sucking so to teach the FO a lesson that you must be responsible for your draft decisions. If Bowlen had FORCED them to keep him like I wanted, then that would have incentivized them not to play this stupid Playstation drafting game in the future, since they would know they would have to live with the decisions they made and would have to commit extra special amounts of coaching when they give up value for someone.

WolfpackGuy
10-31-2010, 03:34 PM
Smiff wouldn't return Bowlen's phone calls.

He had to go.

bpc
10-31-2010, 03:34 PM
oh ffs, everyone was riding Josh for Smith, now they're riding him for trading him?

**** off.

More or less, they're riding him because he's a ****ing idiot no matter what he's doing.

SoCalBronco
10-31-2010, 03:37 PM
Smiff wouldn't return Bowlen's phone calls.

He had to go.

LMAO.

Actually....that's still one of my absolute favorite things Jay ever did. Let Bowlen eat static. God knows he deserves it.

Rascal
10-31-2010, 03:38 PM
I'm not your secretary dumbass, if you can't follow the general discourse on the team yet still feel the need to chime in then go look up Smith's own comments post-trade. He even said he gave an "inaccurate presentation" of himself his first year here.

Thompson and Vaughn are young guys. Smith didn't start as a rookie either, now did he? But Thompson and Vaughn are at least making plays when they get on the field.

And Gronkowski was a worthwhile contributor today. Its not my fault you define a good TE by how much they compare to Shannon Sharpe. Some offenses call for a TE who can block first, catch second. In that role Gronkowski is doing some solid work and looks like he could be a long term piece.

Go ahead and keep calling people names. It suits your style.

The reason you can't provide a link is because it doesn't exist. It was made up by fans who were trying to provide an excuse for McDaniels. Of course it was an inaccurate representation...he didn't have 4 INTs. LOL.

Your lover boy has wasted a first round pick and a second round pick on a ****ing blocking TE. To spend such picks on a easy to fill position is incredibly stupid. But go ahead and make more excuses.

barryr
10-31-2010, 03:41 PM
Some of us were advocating keeping him even though he was sucking so to teach the FO a lesson that you must be responsible for your draft decisions. If Bowlen had FORCED them to keep him like I wanted, then that would have incentivized them not to play this stupid Playstation drafting game in the future, since they would know they would have to live with the decisions they made and would have to commit extra special amounts of coaching when they give up value for someone.

I was one, but there weren't many wanting Smith around. Certinaly not as many now all of a sudden.

NYBronco
10-31-2010, 03:42 PM
Everyone was riding him for making a poor trade...he compounded the error by trading him.

McDaniels is he worst coach in the league, and the combination of him and xavier is one of the worst GMs in the league. Period.

I don't know... I think maybe Norv Turner and the SD GM may have the edge with all their vast NFL experience compared to McD and X. Give McD and X a few more years and then make a comparison.

WABronco
10-31-2010, 03:46 PM
Do you watch the Denver Broncos play football? Because Vaughn and Thompson have both been some of the lone bright spots on defense and special teams. I wouldn't say they have a near zero chance of being contributors. Both are doing work NOW.

And all during pre-season everyone on here was throwing a fit about how McDaniels was going to show favoritism and cut Thompson or Vaughn instead of Smith. When he actually makes the right value move he gets slammed for that too? Can't win for losing with this ADHD generation of Broncos fans.


Doing work as special team gunners and 6th defensive backs. Granted, that's what most udfa's/late rounders are doing at this point, but it's also what they're doing a few years down the line if they're lucky enough to be in the league. You go ahead and throw your hat into the Thompson/Vaughn/Gronkowski ring. I'm looking forward to impact talent.

Lolad
10-31-2010, 04:08 PM
oh ffs, everyone was riding Josh for Smith, now they're riding him for trading him?

**** off.

I would rather they wouldve given him more time especially since we gave up a 1st to trade him