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SoCalBronco
09-08-2010, 12:10 AM
broncos
Analysis: Hunter's rise on Denver's defense coincides with Moss' fall
By Jeff Legwold
The Denver Post
Posted: 09/07/2010 05:55:29 PM MDTUpdated: 09/07/2010 06:39:18 PM MDT


Broncos LB Jarvis Moss (Denver Post file photo)When the Broncos' starting defense lined up for practice Tuesday, newcomer Jason Hunter was at the weakside outside linebacker position the position star pass rusher Elvis Dumervil usually plays.

Dumervil led the NFL in sacks last season with 17. But when he suffered a season-ending chest injury early in training camp, the Broncos spent the remainder of the preseason trying to figure out the best way to fill that hole in their defense.

Jarvis Moss, a first-round pick in the 2007 draft, was first in line. But he fractured a bone in his left hand and seemed to lose his momentum. He got pushed down inside a few times playing against the run during Denver's last two preseason games.

Hunter's rapid rise to the No. 1 defense in the short time since he was signed off waivers Aug. 19 is because of his performance and the gap between Dumervil and the players behind him.

Hunter was released by the Lions. Coach Jim Schwartz said he didn't have room for Hunter at defensive end in Detroit's revamped line, but he called Hunter "a really tough guy."

After arriving at Broncos headquarters, Hunter went about the business of making the team. He practiced hard from the start, played through the inevitable mistakes, showed some flashes in games and moved up the Denver depth chart.

In the balanced world of the NFL, one player's triumph is another's stumble, and this was a lost opportunity for Moss to strengthen his status.

Immediately after Dumervil suffered his injury in camp, some teammates said this was Moss' opportunity to get his career going. But Moss' hand injury came at the worst time. He had to miss about a week's worth of practices.

Moss will continue to battle for playing time. If he's serious about a career in the NFL, that's his best option. But for a former Florida star who was the overall 17th pick of the 2007 draft, it's another major hurdle.

Coach Josh McDaniels has said "other players" will

All Things Broncos blog

The Denver Post's NFL reporters post analysis, notes and minutiae on this blog devoted to the Denver Broncos.
play in relief of Hunter from time to time, that Hunter hasn't been with the Broncos long enough or shown enough in regular-season games to stay on the field in every down-and-distance situation.

Moss will be among those other players. But that's a long way from what he hoped his 2010 season could be.


Jeff Legwold: 303-954-2359 or jlegwold@denverpost.com

For more, see:
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16014864

baja
09-08-2010, 12:33 AM
Why do the Shanny guys not get on Mike for this pick (Moss) the way they get on Josh for Smith who he did manage to trade and not keep around for years and years because he was a #17 pick?

Moss will be cut sometime this season IMO.

Atwater His Ass
09-08-2010, 01:20 AM
I don't think Moss will ever develop, at least not into a first round type of player.

The scary part is how a cast off from Detroit can come in here mid-August and take a starting job.

extralife
09-08-2010, 01:35 AM
Moss's fall began the day he was drafted

BroncoBuff
09-08-2010, 03:07 AM
Hunter shoots, he SCORES!

Goes from the scrap heap to starting at the premier defensive position ... in less than a week.

kent156
09-08-2010, 04:12 AM
Why do the Shanny guys not get on Mike for this pick (Moss) the way they get on Josh for Smith who he did manage to trade and not keep around for years and years because he was a #17 pick?

Moss will be cut sometime this season IMO.


this was a nolan pick wasn't it?

SoDak Bronco
09-08-2010, 04:58 AM
this was a nolan pick wasn't it?

Jim Bates was DC at the time under Shanny. Shanny pick.

Lolad
09-08-2010, 05:04 AM
Why do the Shanny guys not get on Mike for this pick (Moss) the way they get on Josh for Smith who he did manage to trade and not keep around for years and years because he was a #17 pick?

Moss will be cut sometime this season IMO.

Because I believe it's been said when he was drafted that nobody liked the pick. He's been called a bust by EVERYBODY! There isn't any more to be said

TotallyScrewed
09-08-2010, 05:10 AM
Why do the Shanny guys not get on Mike for this pick (Moss) the way they get on Josh for Smith who he did manage to trade and not keep around for years and years because he was a #17 pick?

Moss will be cut sometime this season IMO.

*yawn*

TotallyScrewed
09-08-2010, 05:21 AM
Here's the thing...

We kind of knew what we were getting from Dumervil. This year he's out and we just don't know. Time will tell but for my part, stomping around yelling about Shanny or McD makes little to no sense.

Be hopeful...sit back and watch and we'll see.

And as a side note: 2 SB victories trumps a ton of oops. When McD gets the Broncos back in the winners circle, I'll regard him that highly and forget his oops too. Until then, he's got room to grow (ala Moss) but only just so much room so starting now would be good. Shanny kind of finished slow...he didn't start out slow.

Ray Finkle
09-08-2010, 05:27 AM
I think Moss could excel as a 3rd down pass rusher. The problem is when he is on the field, teams run right at him. He either doesn't engage blocks quick enough or takes bad angles to the ball carrier.

bpc
09-08-2010, 06:36 AM
I got to see Hunter extensively during his time at App. State. He has some live pass rush ability, along with some of the attributes you want at the 3-4 OLB position. I think it's a natural fit for him as he was never going to be thick enough to excel at the 4-3 DE spot. I had a feeling he and Joe Mays were going to work their way up the board. Credit to McD on these trades/signings.

tsiguy96
09-08-2010, 06:45 AM
Here's the thing...

We kind of knew what we were getting from Dumervil. This year he's out and we just don't know. Time will tell but for my part, stomping around yelling about Shanny or McD makes little to no sense.

Be hopeful...sit back and watch and we'll see.

And as a side note: 2 SB victories trumps a ton of oops. When McD gets the Broncos back in the winners circle, I'll regard him that highly and forget his oops too. Until then, he's got room to grow (ala Moss) but only just so much room so starting now would be good. Shanny kind of finished slow...he didn't start out slow.

asbolutely buys a few years of oops, but 10 straight years of "oops"? one playoff victory?

mcdaniels didnt start off slow either, 8-8 his first season. same as shanahans first season.

_Oro_
09-08-2010, 06:47 AM
I don't think Moss will ever develop, at least not into a first round type of player.

The scary part is how a cast off from Detroit can come in here mid-August and take a starting job.

What's scary? Doom has a freak injury and is out for the season so now we need to find a replacement?

You make it sound like our line is so bad that just anyone can come in here and start.

Missouribronc
09-08-2010, 06:52 AM
You make it sound like our line is so bad that just anyone can come in here and start.

At outside linebacker this might be true.

missingnumber7
09-08-2010, 06:53 AM
I got to see Hunter extensively during his time at App. State. He has some live pass rush ability, along with some of the attributes you want at the 3-4 OLB position. I think it's a natural fit for him as he was never going to be thick enough to excel at the 4-3 DE spot. I had a feeling he and Joe Mays were going to work their way up the board. Credit to McD on these trades/signings.

I thought Joe was getting some reps at OLB...at least I wasn't imagining things when I saw him lining up there during the preseason.

Ray Finkle
09-08-2010, 07:10 AM
I thought Joe was getting some reps at OLB...at least I wasn't imagining things when I saw him lining up there during the preseason.

strict ILB.....keep him from playing in a lot of space and he'll do well.

~Crash~
09-08-2010, 07:12 AM
Moss's fall began the day he was drafted

yep your right Moss ought to just crawl up into a ball just because you say and gawlee the mane says he sucks....:peace:

~Crash~
09-08-2010, 07:16 AM
that last game moss did some really good things . He caused a punt and created a turn over . you know when the other team has a 4th down. I say this because it happens not that often as a Broncos fan

CEH
09-08-2010, 07:16 AM
Why do the Shanny guys not get on Mike for this pick (Moss) the way they get on Josh for Smith who he did manage to trade and not keep around for years and years because he was a #17 pick?

Moss will be cut sometime this season IMO.

Moss might have been a Jim Bates pick. Remember how Bates wanted DE that could play wide ala Jason Taylor. Bates was a disaster and might have been the start of Shanny's downfall.


That year Denver had Harrell, Moss and Timmons lined up and Timmons is the only one worth a crap. A bad pick indeed. Rumblings were that Shanny freaked becuase Marvin Lewis had Moss targeted and with the other 2 gone he made the move up.

_Oro_
09-08-2010, 07:17 AM
At outside linebacker this might be true.

I would absolutely agree that we zero depth at the position but I think Ayers
has had a great preseason and is going to give us solid play all year.

missingnumber7
09-08-2010, 07:20 AM
strict ILB.....keep him from playing in a lot of space and he'll do well.

Keep him from a lot of pass coverage and he'll do even better.

jhns
09-08-2010, 07:25 AM
Why do the Shanny guys not get on Mike for this pick (Moss) the way they get on Josh for Smith who he did manage to trade and not keep around for years and years because he was a #17 pick?

Moss will be cut sometime this season IMO.

Since when did people not get on Mike about this pick? What are you talking about?

You do realize McDaniels has kept Moss around as well, right? McDaniels doesn't think it was near the mistake as Smith was. Your argument doesn't make any sense.

SoDak Bronco
09-08-2010, 07:31 AM
Since when did people not get on Mike about this pick? What are you talking about?

You do realize McDaniels has kept Moss around as well, right? McDaniels doesn't think it was near the mistake as Smith was. Your argument doesn't make any sense.

If we didn't have the depth at CB, Phonz would've made the team pretty easily IMO. Not to say it wasn't a bad pick, because it was a terrible pick, but Moss is on the 53 bc of lack of depth and Elvis's injury. Last year and in years past he wasn't even active for most games.

Steve Sewell
09-08-2010, 07:34 AM
LEAVE SHANNY ALONE!

http://img.youtube.com/vi/se9nSeykMig/0.jpg

~Crash~
09-08-2010, 07:34 AM
Why do the Shanny guys not get on Mike for this pick (Moss) the way they get on Josh for Smith who he did manage to trade and not keep around for years and years because he was a #17 pick?

Moss will be cut sometime this season IMO.

why are you a stuck record ? I love shanny and I want Beadles to win a job and do great I love Walton as a Bronco ! for that matter I want each and ever pick even Kerlew to pick up a team and be a winner .Why you ask ? because he was a Bronco .

I was pulling for Brian Clark to make the lions.

You guys really should just be a Broncos fan it might make for a better day ...:sunshine:

Ray Finkle
09-08-2010, 07:35 AM
Keep him from a lot of pass coverage and he'll do even better.

he's a downhill, find the RB and tackle ILB. He's at best what Andre Davis was at the start of the year before he tailed off.

~Crash~
09-08-2010, 07:37 AM
http://img.youtube.com/vi/se9nSeykMig/0.jpg

yes that was funny ...:spit:

Gcver2ver3
09-08-2010, 07:39 AM
i think this is more about Hunter than people are wanting to believe...

Jarvis Moss certainly missed another opportunity, but he did show flashes this preseason...Jason Hunter has just been better in practice/preseason...

personally, i like what i've seen from Hunter and i expect him to surprise some people this season...

Rock Chalk
09-08-2010, 08:34 AM
Here's the thing...

We kind of knew what we were getting from Dumervil. This year he's out and we just don't know. Time will tell but for my part, stomping around yelling about Shanny or McD makes little to no sense.

Be hopeful...sit back and watch and we'll see.

And as a side note: 2 SB victories trumps a ton of oops. When McD gets the Broncos back in the winners circle, I'll regard him that highly and forget his oops too. Until then, he's got room to grow (ala Moss) but only just so much room so starting now would be good. Shanny kind of finished slow...he didn't start out slow.

Shanny also got to start out with a ****ing legendary Quarterback.

But hey, nevermind the small facts.

Cito Pelon
09-08-2010, 08:41 AM
I think Moss could excel as a 3rd down pass rusher. The problem is when he is on the field, teams run right at him. He either doesn't engage blocks quick enough or takes bad angles to the ball carrier.

Well, Moss is playing with a hand totally immobilized by a cast. I still think he'll contribute well this year. The cast immobilizes his wrist also, so he's quite a bit limited in what he can contribute right now.

The staff put a lot of pressure on him, making him play ST coverages the last two preseason games. But, he was willing to do it, cast and all.

jhns
09-08-2010, 08:45 AM
Shanny also got to start out with a ****ing legendary Quarterback.

But hey, nevermind the small facts.

Like this means anything. Do you know the record of the team Shanahan took over? Do you know how many SBs that legendary QB won before Shanahan was the head coach?

Your argument is a pathetic one. Shanahan did great things for this oranization. Why the hate?

SouthStndJunkie
09-08-2010, 08:46 AM
I think a lot of people will be surprised at how well Jason Hunter will play.

Ray Finkle
09-08-2010, 08:46 AM
Well, Moss is playing with a hand totally immobilized by a cast. I still think he'll contribute well this year. The cast immobilizes his wrist also, so he's quite a bit limited in what he can contribute right now.

The staff put a lot of pressure on him, making him play ST coverages the last two preseason games. But, he was willing to do it, cast and all.

he's had those problems since day 1.....it has nothing to do with a cast. If you engaged him and locked him up, he's done. If he can get free an use his speed, his is an ideal 3rd rusher....

oubronco
09-08-2010, 08:48 AM
I think a lot of people will be surprised at how well Jason Hunter will play.

I agree both Hunter and Mays will be getting it done something that hasn't been around here for a few years :strong:

Tombstone RJ
09-08-2010, 09:01 AM
Moss had some explosive plays in preseason but that's not saying a whole lot. This is a contract year for him so if he's gonna live up to the hype, nows the time. If teams run at him then if I was the Broncos I'd shift him to the weak side when he's in and let him go after the QB. Between Ayers, Moss and Hunter someone's gotta get to the QB...

Rabb
09-08-2010, 09:02 AM
I agree both Hunter and Mays will be getting it done something that hasn't been around here for a few years :strong:

yes, yes, yes

I love Mays so far

SoDak Bronco
09-08-2010, 09:12 AM
Mays? He is backup, he won't be playing minus special teams. comeon now

oubronco
09-08-2010, 09:14 AM
Mays? He is backup, he won't be playing minus special teams. comeon now

He'll be playing the starters will need a rest sometime then POW right in the kisser

Man-Goblin
09-08-2010, 09:38 AM
Jason Hunter is our starting weakside pass rusher. Just had to type that outloud.

Mogulseeker
09-08-2010, 09:39 AM
Jim Bates was DC at the time under Shanny. Shanny pick.

He was talking about Smith.

Rabb
09-08-2010, 09:40 AM
Mays? He is backup, he won't be playing minus special teams. comeon now

watch more football and find me any linebacker we have that goes harder than this guy on any play

I am not saying he will be a starter, but he is absolutely a great depth and special teams pickup that will pan out as long as he is healthy

a little undersized in height, but the heart and motor of Brian Dawkins

considering what we gave up, it's a steal

missingnumber7
09-08-2010, 09:44 AM
watch more football and find me any linebacker we have that goes harder than this guy on any play

I am not saying he will be a starter, but he is absolutely a great depth and special teams pickup that will pan out as long as he is healthy

a little undersized in height, but the heart and motor of Brian Dawkins

considering what we gave up, it's a steal

This right here...and if they want to put him in on 3rd as an olb in pass rush situations...watch him chase QB's around all day.

Missouribronc
09-08-2010, 09:44 AM
watch more football and find me any linebacker we have that goes harder than this guy on any play

I am not saying he will be a starter, but he is absolutely a great depth and special teams pickup that will pan out as long as he is healthy

a little undersized in height, but the heart and motor of Brian Dawkins

considering what we gave up, it's a steal

Nate Webster went hard too. So hard that he ran right past the play every single time. But man, could he celebrate or what.

Cito Pelon
09-08-2010, 09:49 AM
Moss had some explosive plays in preseason but that's not saying a whole lot. This is a contract year for him so if he's gonna live up to the hype, nows the time. If teams run at him then if I was the Broncos I'd shift him to the weak side when he's in and let him go after the QB. Between Ayers, Moss and Hunter someone's gotta get to the QB...

I think Moss will have a good year once he gets the cast off of his hand.

I said back in 2007-2008 I thought he'd end up being a solid guy with maybe 80 sacks and a 12 year career. So, I'll stick with that.

I'm impressed this year. The staff kept him for a reason, they obviously saw he can still contribute - once he plays with two hands. They would have cut him in a heartbeat if they still didn't have some belief.

Cito Pelon
09-08-2010, 09:58 AM
Mays? He is backup, he won't be playing minus special teams. comeon now

I'm plenty happy if Mays can add to the ST units. I have high hopes for the ST units this year. It will be so gotdang dynamite if our ST units can make a difference in every game this year. I'm thinking as much as 2 wins.

Last year, two rookies Bruton & McBath made a big difference. This year the whole squad is faster, more skilled, still have Bruton, and McBath will be back in a couple weeks.

broncosteven
09-08-2010, 10:15 AM
asbolutely buys a few years of oops, but 10 straight years of "oops"? one playoff victory?

mcdaniels didnt start off slow either, 8-8 his first season. same as shanahans first season.

I can't wait for 13-3 this year or better.

ScottXray
09-08-2010, 10:22 AM
All I know is, if Hunter helps us more than Moss can then its all good.

Maybe Moss will pick it up with the cast off, and maybe Hunter will keep the job because he is simply better than Moss. Either way we win. If Moss can't get into a starting job (on his own merits) than he can kiss any fat contract offer out the door.

However, Moss has had 4 years to show he can play in this league...and he pretty much has been a waste of roster space up till now. Since McD got rid of phonso (albeit in a trade) when he saw that it ultimately was a mistake, I don't think he'll have much trouble getting rid of Moss when he can. If Dumervil had not gone down this year I think he would have been gone already, especially if we had picked up Hunter anyway.

Its refreshing to see a roster that has the BEST players make the roster. Tough on some guys (Stokely, etc ) that are fan favorites , but it is a tough league and you can't keep guys that are being outplayed by fresh talent.

Moss has to step up or step aside.

manchambo
09-08-2010, 10:24 AM
Why do the Shanny guys not get on Mike for this pick (Moss) the way they get on Josh for Smith who he did manage to trade and not keep around for years and years because he was a #17 pick?

Moss will be cut sometime this season IMO.

I don't really think they're comparable. Moss was generally thought to be a mid first round pick and he was taken with a mid first round pick. The pick missed, which probably happens nearly 50% of the time at #17.

The Broncos traded a first round pick to pick Smith in the second round. And that is what McDaniels has been criticized for. I don't recall Shanahan ever trading a first round pick for a second round pick.

How is missing on a first round pick the same as trading a 1 for a 2?

bloodsunday
09-08-2010, 10:36 AM
I think a lot of people will be surprised at how well Jason Hunter will play.

I agree. Calling him a "scap heap" guy is harsh. He started 9 games for Detroit last year and had 5 sacks. Jarvis Moss has 1 start and 3.5 sacks in his entire career!

Schwartz seemed high on the guy, but he's a little undersized to be an NFL DE and he became expendable when the Lions invested so much in their DL this off season.

Beantown Bronco
09-08-2010, 10:44 AM
I don't really think they're comparable. Moss was generally thought to be a mid first round pick and he was taken with a mid first round pick. The pick missed, which probably happens nearly 50% of the time at #17.

The Broncos traded first, third and fifth rounders to move up to take Moss.

OABB
09-08-2010, 10:47 AM
The Broncos traded first, third and fifth rounders to move up to take Moss.

pwnd.

baja
09-08-2010, 10:53 AM
Moss might have been a Jim Bates pick. Remember how Bates wanted DE that could play wide ala Jason Taylor. Bates was a disaster and might have been the start of Shanny's downfall.


That year Denver had Harrell, Moss and Timmons lined up and Timmons is the only one worth a crap. A bad pick indeed. Rumblings were that Shanny freaked becuase Marvin Lewis had Moss targeted and with the other 2 gone he made the move up.

That's right I had forgotten we traded up to get Moss who was considered a reach. That turns out to be a much worse pick that McD's Smith pick.

Oh well the season starts in 4 days this is the best time of year for football. We have 16 glorious games stretched out before us and we have the same record as the eventual SB winner. Enjoy this time Bronco fans. I feel sorry for the McD / Bowlen haters because you trade your enjoyment for unfounded disappointment

Go Broncos.

baja
09-08-2010, 11:05 AM
Since when did people not get on Mike about this pick? What are you talking about?

You do realize McDaniels has kept Moss around as well, right? McDaniels doesn't think it was near the mistake as Smith was. Your argument doesn't make any sense.

He kept Moss around because he has only so many draft picks, this year he spotted 2 DBs (Cox & Thompson) that allowed him to recover from his poor decision in drafting Smith. Give Josh more than one season before you judge him. It's too bad you do not see how much he has improved the Broncos in his short time here, you are blinded by your hate and are missing the fun part of being a fan.

jhns
09-08-2010, 11:06 AM
That's right I had forgotten we traded up to get Moss who was considered a reach. That turns out to be a much worse pick that McD's Smith pick.


LOL

Wow baja. So giving up the 14 pick for a corner that lasted one year is now better than using the 16th pick on a LB that has been here for multiple seasons and through two coaching staffs? That is an interesting theory. Not very well thought out but still interesting.

baja
09-08-2010, 11:08 AM
why are you a stuck record ? I love shanny and I want Beadles to win a job and do great I love Walton as a Bronco ! for that matter I want each and ever pick even Kerlew to pick up a team and be a winner .Why you ask ? because he was a Bronco .

I was pulling for Brian Clark to make the lions.

You guys really should just be a Broncos fan it might make for a better day ...:sunshine:

I didn't see your name anywhere in my post. Are you putting on the shoe because it fits?

Requiem
09-08-2010, 11:08 AM
he's a downhill, find the RB and tackle ILB. He's at best what Andre Davis was at the start of the year before he tailed off.

Yeah, MN7 would know. He saw him play with the Bison.

gyldenlove
09-08-2010, 11:09 AM
That's right I had forgotten we traded up to get Moss who was considered a reach. That turns out to be a much worse pick that McD's Smith pick.

Oh well the season starts in 4 days this is the best time of year for football. We have 16 glorious games stretched out before us and we have the same record as the eventual SB winner. Enjoy this time Bronco fans. I feel sorry for the McD / Bowlen haters because you trade your enjoyment for unfounded disappointment

Go Broncos.

That is revitionist history, Moss was considered a mid 1st round choice in all predraft rankings.

The Moss pick is worse by a 3rd and 5th round pick, because that is how much more we spend on him.

Anaximines
09-08-2010, 11:10 AM
The scary part is how a cast off from Detroit can come in here mid-August and take a starting job.

Yep.

Dedhed
09-08-2010, 11:21 AM
gawlee the mane says he sucks....:peace:

No, the fact that he's never played with any consistency says he sucks. Some on the mane listen to how loudly that talks, others, I guess, don't.

baja
09-08-2010, 11:54 AM
I don't really think they're comparable. Moss was generally thought to be a mid first round pick and he was taken with a mid first round pick. The pick missed, which probably happens nearly 50% of the time at #17.

The Broncos traded a first round pick to pick Smith in the second round. And that is what McDaniels has been criticized for. I don't recall Shanahan ever trading a first round pick for a second round pick.

How is missing on a first round pick the same as trading a 1 for a 2?

Shanny traded up for Moss. I think it was our 1 plus a 3 and a 5

ScottXray
09-08-2010, 11:58 AM
Shanny traded up for Moss. I think it was our 1 plus a 3 and a 5

Yep. I remember having a sinking feeling in my gut when the pick was announced.

Lolad
09-08-2010, 12:03 PM
Shanny traded up for Moss. I think it was our 1 plus a 3 and a 5

from a talent aspect, 1st round picks are supposed to contribute more then later rounds. Especially better than a 5th.

That pick is irrelevant you can include the 3rd. But McD's trade is far worst then the Moss pick by giving up a 1st.

Beantown Bronco
09-08-2010, 12:08 PM
But McD's trade is far worst then the Moss pick by giving up a 1st.

Huh? Giving up a future first is worse than giving up a current first, third and fifth? You'll have to explain that one to me.

RaiderH8r
09-08-2010, 12:21 PM
I think Moss could excel as a 3rd down pass rusher. The problem is when he is on the field, teams run right at him. He either doesn't engage blocks quick enough or takes bad angles to the ball carrier.

I think Moss could excel as a 1st string, full time, grocery bagger. His nimble feet and upper body strength give him the ability to easily maneuver the bagging area while avoiding the usual encumberances of handling 3-5 gallons of milk in each hand that plague lesser bag boys. An additional benefit is the hand size of this physical freak of grocery sack stardom. His long reach is also a tremendous benefit as snatching items immediately from the scanner frees his register jockey to deftly maneuver the item belt. It's this level of team work that gets me through the checkout line and into my jammies with a bowl full of Fritos and a glass full of brew in the shortest amount of time. King Soopers would be retarded not to ink this guy.

Wait...he's still with the Broncos? F*** f*** f***ity f***.

Got it, trade him to King Soopers for some gift cards and cool toys from the checkout aisle. BAM! Screw you Xanders, I got this GM job locked down. We can send Xanders too if they throw in a 12er to be named later.

Requiem
09-08-2010, 12:28 PM
The trade value for Moss and Smith were both terrible.

Giving up the future first hurt, but where Smith was picked wasn't an issue.

Giving up a third and a sixth for Jarvis Moss was stupid, clearly when the value of our twenty-first selection and the third broke the value necessary to reach pick seventeen. IIRC, the Titans were interested in Moss -- but then again they didn't address DE until the sixth round so I sort of find that hard to believe.

Can't be too sure, but I have no doubts that Moss would have been there at #21. Would have much rather stayed put and took Reggie Nelson at that spot anyways. . . or Beason or a ton of other better players than a guy who started one full-year in college and played mediocre.

Kaylore
09-08-2010, 12:45 PM
In regards to the original article. Moss is expected to split time with Hunter and will play significantly this Sunday. I'm not sure that's a "fall" so much as Hunter is better. He's still going to play.

Cito Pelon
09-08-2010, 12:53 PM
In regards to the original article. Moss is expected to split time with Hunter and will play significantly this Sunday. I'm not sure that's a "fall" so much as Hunter is better. He's still going to play.

Eh, this board seems to focus a lot on making a cute remark about a player, even though they haven't even seen him play.

PRBronco
09-08-2010, 01:26 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Shanny traded up for Moss so that the Jags couldn't take him. But then they got their comeuppance the next year with their own Gator DE bust, so all is forgiven.

Popps
09-08-2010, 01:43 PM
What Legwold doesn't understand is... Moss would kill to stay rich. His hustle will keep him fly.

ScottXray
09-08-2010, 02:06 PM
Reality be damned! +1

TheProfessor
09-08-2010, 02:11 PM
I can't believe we were so thin at LB that one injury leads to a street FA from detroit becoming a startter in about 1 week.

Hope I'm wrong, but this could be a long season

mwill07
09-08-2010, 02:39 PM
I don't think Moss has the conditioning/stamina/heart/motor to be an every down player. I think he's best suited to come in, go nuts for a play, and go rest for a few plays. Pass-rush specialist.

I think that he could be something special in a role like that - he can be very quick, and I think it would be pretty effective having his speed coming in as needed.

elsid13
09-08-2010, 02:47 PM
That's right I had forgotten we traded up to get Moss who was considered a reach. That turns out to be a much worse pick that McD's Smith pick.

Oh well the season starts in 4 days this is the best time of year for football. We have 16 glorious games stretched out before us and we have the same record as the eventual SB winner. Enjoy this time Bronco fans. I feel sorry for the McD / Bowlen haters because you trade your enjoyment for unfounded disappointment

Go Broncos.

How is it a worse pick, when Moss actually has played out his complete contract for the team, vs Smith who didn't even make past one season with the team??? You argue that his performance doesn't match his draft status but you can not say that was worse pick because he at least is still on the team and contributing.

enjolras
09-08-2010, 03:14 PM
How is it a worse pick, when Moss actually has played out his complete contract for the team, vs Smith who didn't even make past one season with the team??? You argue that his performance doesn't match his draft status but you can not say that was worse pick because he at least is still on the team and contributing.

If the team had come up with better options at OLB, Moss would have long ago been gone. Smith was a victim of a sudden surplus at his position. Moss is simply fortunate that the same hasn't happened at his position.

Lolad
09-08-2010, 04:38 PM
Huh? Giving up a future first is worse than giving up a current first, third and fifth? You'll have to explain that one to me.

wow. My fault I forgot we gave up all that for Moss.

Jay3
09-08-2010, 05:35 PM
This is the death knell for Moss. Hunter's rise proves that the position is there for the taking for a guy that can play. Moss just is not strong enough.

BroncoBuff
09-08-2010, 05:36 PM
The scary part is how a cast off from Detroit can come in here mid-August and take a starting job.

The same way they got our best pass-catching TE for a 5th round pick ....

Then 2 months later traded us their cast-off TE in exchange for a 2nd round player that cost us a 1st.

Damn, Xanders is the Lions' bitch.

BroncoBuff
09-08-2010, 05:38 PM
Now I'm thinking Alphonso Smith and Jack Williams just might become the best CB duo in the league.

Dukes
09-08-2010, 05:41 PM
Now I'm thinking Alphonso Smith and Jack Williams just might become the best CB duo in the league.

Now that's just silly.

McDman
09-08-2010, 05:53 PM
yes, yes, yes

I love Mays so far

I thought he was very mediocre, especially in the passing game. He east to west capabilities seemed very limited to me.

Mr. Elway
09-08-2010, 05:55 PM
I think this again speaks to Moss's inconsistency. He has been generally ineffective overall, with occasional flashes of being disruptive in the passing game this preseason. We all want to believe that those are signs of good things to come but at this point it's hard to believe he will be anything special. It's not alarming that he is losing playing time to someone with a lower pedigree but a higher level of consistency, it's inevitable. It's good we have someone like Hunter to fill in. No one can be expected to step in and do what Dumerville did for us last year. Signing a young player with a record of success in the pros, who can help fill in now and potentially be a long term role player, seems like a good move.

TotallyScrewed
09-08-2010, 06:22 PM
asbolutely buys a few years of oops, but 10 straight years of "oops"? one playoff victory?

mcdaniels didnt start off slow either, 8-8 his first season. same as shanahans first season.

What was Shanny's record in year two, three, four? That's a lot of pressure you just put on McD. And yes, I'd absolutely forget the oops of McD AFTER he brings likewise.

TotallyScrewed
09-08-2010, 06:23 PM
Shanny also got to start out with a ****ing legendary Quarterback.

But hey, nevermind the small facts.

Elway became legendary with Mike NOT pre-Mike. But hey, nevermind the small facts.

TotallyScrewed
09-08-2010, 06:37 PM
That is revitionist history, Moss was considered a mid 1st round choice in all predraft rankings.

The Moss pick is worse by a 3rd and 5th round pick, because that is how much more we spend on him.

For even more truth...

In 2007 the Broncos gave up their first round (21st overall), their second third round pick (86th overall), and a sixth (198th overall).

I'm not saying that it was a great or even good trade or pick. I'm just repeating the facts of what was the deal

Tombstone RJ
09-08-2010, 06:43 PM
Elway became legendary with Mike NOT pre-Mike. But hey, nevermind the small facts.

It was mutual but Elway would of been hof with or without Mike, maybe no SB rings but Elway's ability to win would remain.

baja
09-08-2010, 06:52 PM
For even more truth...

In 2007 the Broncos gave up their first round (21st overall), their second third round pick (86th overall), and a sixth (198th overall).

I'm not saying that it was a great or even good trade or pick. I'm just repeating the facts of what was the deal

You should consider adding "up" at the end of your screen name.

Naggle Nole
09-08-2010, 06:58 PM
Now I'm thinking Alphonso Smith and Jack Williams just might become the best CB duo in the league.


Step one is for one of them to work their way into even a nickel package for Christ's sake
Step two is for one of them to make a meaningful play in the regular season
Step three is for one of them to finish the season healthy (for once)
Then we can talk about ONE of them even being a starting corner

I realize that there is not much of a body of work for either and that you are probably being sarcastic, but please

TotallyScrewed
09-08-2010, 07:11 PM
It was mutual but Elway would of been hof with or without Mike, maybe no SB rings but Elway's ability to win would remain.

Ummm with Dan Reeves and the three Amigo's and Winder? Let's just say that wasn't looking good for a HOF type career. But it certainly could of happened...I'm not much on the chicken or the egg game. I don't want to think about how John would have been remembered had he only had SB losses...this is a tough crowd.

TotallyScrewed
09-08-2010, 07:17 PM
You should consider adding "up" at the end of your screen name.

What are you implying? Are you lurking outside my window? Can you see what keys I typed and then deleted?

OMG...Help! Police!! Wait a minute...You're just effing with me. *chuckle* Good one, skippy!

Inkana7
09-08-2010, 07:41 PM
Ummm with Dan Reeves and the three Amigo's and Winder? Let's just say that wasn't looking good for a HOF type career. But it certainly could of happened...I'm not much on the chicken or the egg game. I don't want to think about how John would have been remembered had he only had SB losses...this is a tough crowd.

C'mon dude. You're smarter than this.

Steve Sewell
09-08-2010, 07:46 PM
Ummm with Dan Reeves and the three Amigo's and Winder? Let's just say that wasn't looking good for a HOF type career. But it certainly could of happened...I'm not much on the chicken or the egg game. I don't want to think about how John would have been remembered had he only had SB losses...this is a tough crowd.

Elway was a hall of famer before Shanahan was the head coach.

TotallyScrewed
09-08-2010, 07:54 PM
Alright, alright...

That was over the top. Let's be serious...John's was a HOF'er w/o Shanahan and carried the team but his game was vastly improved with Shanahan. Isn't that fair?

Rabb
09-08-2010, 07:56 PM
Alright, alright...

That was over the top. Let's be serious...John's was a HOF'er w/o Shanahan and carried the team but his game was vastly improved with Shanahan. Isn't that fair?

I'd agree with that, Shanny used John's abilities to their finest, and surrounded him (finally) with a stacked team in just about every aspect.

Looking back at those teams, it really is astounding how talented we were.

Dedhed
09-08-2010, 08:48 PM
Elway became legendary with Mike NOT pre-Mike.

This is complete and utter BS.

Dagmar
09-08-2010, 10:17 PM
Now I'm thinking Alphonso Smith and Jack Williams just might become the best CB duo in the league.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2cejbyh.jpg

watermock
09-09-2010, 12:22 AM
Hunter shoots, he SCORES!

Goes from the scrap heap to starting at the premier defensive position ... in less than a week.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44206000/jpg/_44206467_lombardi203.jpg

watermock
09-09-2010, 12:28 AM
It sure seems Beavis is doing alot of trades with Detroit.

What happenned to all those high picks we got for trading aeay 2/3's of the offense?

watermock
09-09-2010, 12:37 AM
This message is hidden because Dagmar is on your ignore list.

You made it! Right along with Casino Royale.

Garcia Bronco
09-09-2010, 05:56 AM
Moss is generally a hotdogin idiot on the field and likes to run by runningbacks.

Garcia Bronco
09-09-2010, 05:58 AM
Alright, alright...

That was over the top. Let's be serious...John's was a HOF'er w/o Shanahan and carried the team but his game was vastly improved with Shanahan. Isn't that fair?

John Elway never played in a Super Bowl without Mike Shanahan.

watermock
09-09-2010, 06:12 AM
Shanny also has a ring with SF.

He alo has 3 more AFC rings before McReeves drafted Maddox and fired Shany snd tried to trade Elway for working around him.

Cito Pelon
09-09-2010, 07:25 AM
This is the death knell for Moss. Hunter's rise proves that the position is there for the taking for a guy that can play. Moss just is not strong enough.

Moss...has....a...cast...on...his....hand. There, I slowed it down for everybody for easier comprehension.

The cast immobilizes all his fingers and thumb, and his wrist. Moss by all reports was looking good this year prior to the broken hand. If Hunter is a great one that's fine with me, but I'm saying Moss' broken hand has a lot to do with "Hunter's rise".

Maybe Hunter will be great in October, the month of the Hunter's moon. Somebody can start a thread about "Hunter's moon rises".

Rabb
09-09-2010, 08:00 AM
John Elway never played in a Super Bowl without Mike Shanahan.

:wiggle:

Dedhed
09-09-2010, 08:13 AM
John Elway never played in a Super Bowl without Mike Shanahan.

Mike Shanahan never made it to the SB without Elway.

watermock
09-09-2010, 08:21 AM
mike shanahan never made it to the sb without elway.

wrong.

Lolad
09-09-2010, 08:28 AM
This thread is full of factual references.. Haha

Inkana7
09-09-2010, 08:41 AM
wrong.

As a head coach? Right.

For his other SB, he had Steve Young..

Dedhed
09-09-2010, 08:50 AM
wrong.
I'm not giving out assistant credit here.

footstepsfrom#27
09-09-2010, 08:52 AM
I think Moss will have a good year once he gets the cast off of his hand.

I said back in 2007-2008 I thought he'd end up being a solid guy with maybe 80 sacks and a 12 year career. So, I'll stick with that.

I'm impressed this year. The staff kept him for a reason, they obviously saw he can still contribute - once he plays with two hands. They would have cut him in a heartbeat if they still didn't have some belief.
Props for maintaining faith in him and being willng to admit it this late. I think the thing people forget about him is that he was drafted with the understanding he was a project that would take some time, if for no other reason than the fact that he spent most of his college career incapacitated with a staph infection that weakened him considerably. Injuries are a concern but we can say the jury is out on whether he's prone or not once this cast comes off. If he can get on the field with two good hands which is the key for him since he needs both of them to fight off an OT 80 pounds bigger than him. I honestly don't know how anyone can expect him to do what he does with one hand more or less tied behind his back.

BroncoBuff
09-10-2010, 02:40 AM
Elway became legendary with Mike NOT pre-Mike. But hey, nevermind the small facts.

Yes, Mike was hired in John's second year ... but John had his best statistical seasons with Jim Fassel.