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The MVPlaya
09-06-2010, 01:06 PM
Mike Shanahan sat down with the Post's Jeff Legwold in the hours before his team's preseason finale in Arizona. Here's is some of what he had to say:

Whether he's angry he was fired by the Broncos:
"I wasn't mad. I was disappointed, because I thought we had the thing going the right direction. I thought the building blocks were there. Defensively, we needed some things, but we had pieces in place and I believed we could bring the defense up to where the offense was."

What he meant when he said he had left a "Super Bowl offense" with the Broncos:
"That's what I think. You average 395 yards a game and lose six running backs (in 2008) and still average well over 4 yards per rush, that's a group capable of things. It was by no means perfect — too many turnovers, some red-zone issues — but you don't move the ball like that if you're not very capable. We were No. 2. To be in the Super Bowl, you have to have that kind of offense, be No. 1, No. 2, be No. 1 in defense. That's how you win Super Bowls. At least there was one side at that level. The job when you have one side like that is to get the other side (of the ball) to that level and maintain what you already have."

On whether he would have eventually hired his son, Kyle, to be his offensive coordinator in Denver had he stayed:
"There's no question it would have happened in Denver. I would have brought him in there before my last year, but he was under contract. (Texans coach) Gary (Kubiak) gave him a chance, so I would have never gone to Gary at that point and said, 'Gary, can I bring my son into Denver?' When he fulfilled his contract, I think it was fair for him to come here now."

Why he agreed to let Kyle call plays:
"As you get older, you realize you can't spend as much time in your system with your quarterbacks when you're the head coach. I never wanted to be the guy as a head coach that didn't spend all that time with the quarterbacks during the week and then tried to call plays on game day. In that situation, then are you calling the same plays that the quarterback wanted? Or are you just running what you want to do? If you're going to do that, you better spend every minute with that quarterback. And I'm not sure you can do that as a head coach, not if the defense and special teams are as equally important to you, and if you're the head coach, they'd better be as important to you."

If he, members of his family or friends believed he should have retired from coaching after he was fired by the Broncos:
"My family and (wife) Peggy said they'd support my decision to coach again if I wanted to. But I had plenty of time left on my contract after I got fired, and some people said just don't work and get paid. But I still wanted to coach."


Read more: In his own words: Redskins coach Mike Shanahan - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16001998?source=rss#ixzz0ymIDTTeI

UberBroncoMan
09-06-2010, 01:22 PM
Looks like Jeremy Bates was going to get the axe.

OBF1
09-06-2010, 01:23 PM
Shanny is living in denile about the 08 Broncos.

Mogulseeker
09-06-2010, 01:27 PM
Shanny is living in denile about the 08 Broncos.

Pop warner defense.

Tim
09-06-2010, 01:28 PM
Looks like Jeremy Bates was going to get the axe.

he was the qb coach in 08 so to bring in kyle wouldn't have affected him except his play calling

bpc
09-06-2010, 01:32 PM
Mike's a great guy. I feel strongly that we were going in the right direction. The defense needed a ton of work but the offense had some stalwarts in positions where you need them. He could come have wrapped around in 09's draft, picked up a big-time defensive player instead of using one on 900 yd rusher in Knowshon, and then drafted Shonn Greene in the 2nd round and we would have been in the playoffs last year.

Ah well. Water under the bridge. Mike's gonna win another super bowl or two. I hope that Tebow can fulfill the promise he showed in the preseason and get us to that level as well.

oubronco
09-06-2010, 01:32 PM
Yea the 08 offense sucked

Lolad
09-06-2010, 01:32 PM
Shanny is living in denile about the 08 Broncos.

no he told it how it was. He was straight forward and said we had red zone issues and turnovers that needed to be fixed but we still moved the ball well which we did. The defense wasn't anything to write home about which he stated.

This has been hashed and rehashed since last year, but if we had to 08 offense (w/ year 2 in the system) and the 09 defense (1st 6 games, spotty afterwards) we would have went deep.

The MVPlaya
09-06-2010, 01:38 PM
Mike's gonna win another super bowl or two. .

What did Mike do to you?

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/157726159.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1283802874&Signature=KKn6pd2N7rbHh%2BNLFYlNoM52Fu4%3D

Dagmar
09-06-2010, 01:42 PM
Mike is a classy guy with a huge ego.

TheReverend
09-06-2010, 01:46 PM
Mike's a great guy. I feel strongly that we were going in the right direction. The defense needed a ton of work but the offense had some stalwarts in positions where you need them. He could come have wrapped around in 09's draft, picked up a big-time defensive player instead of using one on 900 yd rusher in Knowshon, and then drafted Shonn Greene in the 2nd round and we would have been in the playoffs last year.

Ah well. Water under the bridge. Mike's gonna win another super bowl or two. I hope that Tebow can fulfill the promise he showed in the preseason and get us to that level as well.

Agreed

orangemonkey
09-06-2010, 01:48 PM
Mike is a classy guy with a huge ego.

Hopefully, in time, McD gains "class" to match his ego.

The MVPlaya
09-06-2010, 01:49 PM
Agreed

No way!

<iframe class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="640" height="385" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-f_DPrSEOEo" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Archer81
09-06-2010, 01:50 PM
Mike's a great guy. I feel strongly that we were going in the right direction. The defense needed a ton of work but the offense had some stalwarts in positions where you need them. He could come have wrapped around in 09's draft, picked up a big-time defensive player instead of using one on 900 yd rusher in Knowshon, and then drafted Shonn Greene in the 2nd round and we would have been in the playoffs last year.

Ah well. Water under the bridge. Mike's gonna win another super bowl or two. I hope that Tebow can fulfill the promise he showed in the preseason and get us to that level as well.


If we are living in the land of fantasy, can I have a pony?


:Broncos:

SoCalBronco
09-06-2010, 01:51 PM
Go Shanny! One of my personal heroes.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0bPNgvz9bl8i7/610x.jpg

broncogary
09-06-2010, 01:52 PM
Mike's a great guy. I feel strongly that we were going in the right direction. The defense needed a ton of work but the offense had some stalwarts in positions where you need them. He could come have wrapped around in 09's draft, picked up a big-time defensive player instead of using one on 900 yd rusher in Knowshon, and then drafted Shonn Greene in the 2nd round and we would have been in the playoffs last year.

Ah well. Water under the bridge. Mike's gonna win another super bowl or two. I hope that Tebow can fulfill the promise he showed in the preseason and get us to that level as well.

Mock, is that you? Ha!

The MVPlaya
09-06-2010, 01:54 PM
Go Shanny! One of my personal heroes.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0bPNgvz9bl8i7/610x.jpg


Those all blue jerseys need to be a staple to this team.

TheReverend
09-06-2010, 01:55 PM
No way!

<iframe class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="640" height="385" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-f_DPrSEOEo" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Wow, you really got me good.

baja
09-06-2010, 02:11 PM
Go Shanny! One of my personal heroes.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0bPNgvz9bl8i7/610x.jpg

You mean you aspire to be the little man upstairs?

Do you like Turkey sandwiches ?

Broncoman13
09-06-2010, 02:12 PM
Love Mike Shanahan and don't disagree with anything he said. The offense was well built and needed only maintenance and a RB to stay at the same level. The defense was horrid. By some players in place he means, we had Champ Bailey and DJ Williams, but we needed 9 other starters from there! ;D

Anyhow, I don't think there was anything new out of that piece. 'Cept for the part about bringing his son in eventually which most of us guess anyway. And honestly, the kid got some great production out of the Texans offense last year along with Kubes. It's not like he sat on his Daddy's staff and rode his coattail. He made a pretty good name for himself after having the door opened by a friend of his pops. Opportunity is what you make of it. If someone has to crack that door open for you to get that opportunity, it's up to you whether you're going to kick it all the way open and seize the moment, or if you're going to let it close back in your face. Seems to me that Kyle Shanahan was willing and able to kick it open and take what was his.

elsid13
09-06-2010, 02:12 PM
Mike is a classy guy with a huge ego.

He's is successful NFL Head Coach. They all have huge egos and are pricks, that what makes them successful because they can not see themselves failing.

OBF1
09-06-2010, 02:18 PM
no he told it how it was. He was straight forward and said we had red zone issues and turnovers that needed to be fixed but we still moved the ball well which we did. The defense wasn't anything to write home about which he stated.

This has been hashed and rehashed since last year, but if we had to 08 offense (w/ year 2 in the system) and the 09 defense (1st 6 games, spotty afterwards) we would have went deep.


Whether he's angry he was fired by the Broncos:
"I wasn't mad. I was disappointed, because I thought we had the thing going the right direction. I thought the building blocks were there. Defensively, we needed some things, but we had pieces in place and I believed we could bring the defense up to where the offense was."

You were drinking his kool aid with those comments... Our defense sucked at best and though our offense could manage yards, we were not scoring worth a crap...... HENCE 8-8 seasons and getting knocked out of the playoffs up 2 games with 3 to go and he still could not do sh it.

Take off the orange lens sunglasses and remove your head from shanny's azz.

Mogulseeker
09-06-2010, 02:20 PM
Go Shanny! One of my personal heroes.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0bPNgvz9bl8i7/610x.jpg


http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v314/135/85/830989287/n830989287_660506_50.jpg

OBF1
09-06-2010, 02:23 PM
He's WAS successful NFL Head Coach, But did sh it since Elway retired in 1998, 19 freekin 98 They all have huge egos and are pricks, that what makes them successful because they can not see themselves failing.

fixed it for you.

PS: bpc, Atlas emailed me and said they still have room on the washington rats bandwagon for you.

elsid13
09-06-2010, 02:28 PM
fixed it for you.

PS: bpc, Atlas emailed me and said they still have room on the washington rats bandwagon for you.


You really must enjoy high school. Can you actually name one successful NFL coach that doesn't have ego, or are you just going bitch when others respect what Shanahan did for Denver?

OBF1
09-06-2010, 02:33 PM
You really must enjoy high school. Can you actually name one successful NFL coach that doesn't have ego, or are you just going b**** when others respect what Shanahan did for Denver?

There is a difference between "repecting" someone and kissing their ass, but when you remove your lips from his ass, you might actully be able to tell a difference.

Now unlike you, I have never talked to any NFL coach but shanny, so I could not give you MY PERSONAL opinion on which coaches are or are not ego maniacs.

What an ass clown

Gort
09-06-2010, 02:36 PM
You really must enjoy high school. Can you actually name one successful NFL coach that doesn't have ego, or are you just going b**** when others respect what Shanahan did for Denver?

while Ryan, Billick, Shanny, Gruden, and others are at one extreme... there are head coaches at the opposite extreme. people like Dungy, Gibbs, Reid, and a few others.

Miss I.
09-06-2010, 02:38 PM
Shanny's a great coach, hope he does well. But his take on defense, well we had a really bad defense, I think BMan13 is correct.

Not to muddy waters with a separate debate on heroism, but while I agree Mike is a great coach, good role model, hero is a bit overused in this context. Firemen are heroes, NFL coaches are not, at least not for being a great coach.

rmsanger
09-06-2010, 02:43 PM
Shanny is an epic HC, on GM well not so much!

worm
09-06-2010, 02:46 PM
Shanny is an epic HC, on GM well not so much!

Those poor draft picks weren't his fault. They were all his O and D coordinators fault!

The MVPlaya
09-06-2010, 02:53 PM
Those poor draft picks weren't his fault. They were all his O and D coordinators fault!

http://gabrielutasi.com/comic/copyright/gabrielutasi/2008/10/100408not_my_fault.gif

bpc
09-06-2010, 02:57 PM
What did Mike do to you?

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/157726159.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1283802874&Signature=KKn6pd2N7rbHh%2BNLFYlNoM52Fu4%3D

What did Mike do FOR me? He brought two super bowl championships to Denver and over a decade of winning football. The guy's gonna be a hall of famer before it's all said and done. His rushing offenses are gonna go down in history the same way Bill Walsh's pass offenses did.

Show a little respect for what he gave you as a Bronco fan... Or maybe he didn't give you anything, you might not have even been a fan at that time.

bpc
09-06-2010, 02:59 PM
If we are living in the land of fantasy, can I have a pony?


:Broncos:

What part is fantasy? That we could have found a better player at #12 where we drafted Knowshon?

baja
09-06-2010, 03:01 PM
Those poor draft picks weren't his fault. They were all his O and D coordinators fault!

That's right!

It works like this;

Good things = Shanahan's fault

Bad things = Somebody else's fault

Lolad
09-06-2010, 03:05 PM
Whether he's angry he was fired by the Broncos:
"I wasn't mad. I was disappointed, because I thought we had the thing going the right direction. I thought the building blocks were there. Defensively, we needed some things, but we had pieces in place and I believed we could bring the defense up to where the offense was."

You were drinking his kool aid with those comments... Our defense sucked at best and though our offense could manage yards, we were not scoring worth a crap...... HENCE 8-8 seasons and getting knocked out of the playoffs up 2 games with 3 to go and he still could not do sh it.

Take off the orange lens sunglasses and remove your head from shanny's azz.


What kool aid am I drinking I said the defense sucked. Shanny said the same. We needed some more pieces which I don't think anybody doubts that. We had red zone problems which I've stated, turnover issues which I have stated. Did you even read my post or did you just get offended that I didn't agree with your assessment?

bpc
09-06-2010, 03:06 PM
fixed it for you.

PS: bpc, Atlas emailed me and said they still have room on the washington rats bandwagon for you.

MAYBE that is why I was at the hall of fame game with you when Elway was inducted!!! I was there to see the Redskins! Brilliant! ha ha.

Try again. On a side note, who wins more games this year, Shanny or McD since you're aiming the conversation there?

Requiem
09-06-2010, 03:08 PM
Perhaps they win the same amount of games.

footstepsfrom#27
09-06-2010, 03:09 PM
"As you get older, you realize you can't spend as much time in your system with your quarterbacks when you're the head coach. I never wanted to be the guy as a head coach that didn't spend all that time with the quarterbacks during the week and then tried to call plays on game day. In that situation, then are you calling the same plays that the quarterback wanted? Or are you just running what you want to do? If you're going to do that, you better spend every minute with that quarterback. And I'm not sure you can do that as a head coach, not if the defense and special teams are as equally important to you, and if you're the head coach, they'd better be as important to you."
Mike....seriously...this is us you're talking to. :kiddingme :rofl:

The MVPlaya
09-06-2010, 03:12 PM
What did Mike do FOR me? He brought two super bowl championships to Denver and over a decade of winning football. The guy's gonna be a hall of famer before it's all said and done. His rushing offenses are gonna go down in history the same way Bill Walsh's pass offenses did.

Show a little respect for what he gave you as a Bronco fan... Or maybe he didn't give you anything, you might not have even been a fan at that time.

I was but just wasn't really old enough to embrace it as I can now.

I think you went a little overboard with the Bill Walsh line.

1997 - 4th ranked
1998 - 2nd ranked
1999 - 12th ranked
2000 - 3rd ranked
2001 - 10th ranked
2002 - 5th ranked
2003 - 2nd ranked
2004 - 4th ranked
2005 - 2nd ranked
2006 - 8th ranked
2007 - 9th ranked
2008 - 12th ranked

This is total rushing, we can use average too and he wasn't ranked #1 any season either.

Now mind you - those are pretty consistent rankings ---> no one is denying that. Shanahan could make some high school running backs into 1000k rushers.

But when you're putting him into the ranks of Bill Walsh as far as just the running game goes (as compared to Walsh's passing game), you've gone a bit too far. You would he think we ranked #1 at least right? I did.

Don't get me wrong. Shanahan is a HOF coach. He's an all time great coach. The consistency he's shown is a rare feat amongst coaches.

However, we're not sitting here at 77 years old reminiscing about the all time greats and history. We're here on the OMane talking about what's going down THIS season and about RECENT history.

This is the business buddy. No doubt Shanahan deserves every Denver fan's respect and love. No ****ing doubt.

We are talking about the NFL in present context and Shanahan isn't on a great pedestal for that. He hasn't done much for the Broncos in RECENT HISTORY.

It's a new ****ing era.

I think it's time you decide if you're really a Broncos fan, or you're more a Shanahan fan. Be a ****ing man an own up to what's true to your core. Shanahan is still a coach and no one is stopping you from going to the Redskins. And if you're confident enough he'll win 1 or 2 more Super Bowls, I am not sure why the **** you're still here.

Requiem
09-06-2010, 03:15 PM
I don't see Shanahan winning a Super Bowl with the Redskins to be honest. Better luck playing the lotto.

bpc
09-06-2010, 03:15 PM
That's right!

It works like this;

Good things = Shanahan's fault

Bad things = Somebody else's fault

I don't think anybody excuses bad personnel decisions and Shanny had his fair share.... At the same time, McD is QUICKLY catching him with some of his poor judgments on talent in just two offseasons. All I remember Shanahan doing in his first two or three years in Denver was landing TD, Ed McCaffrey, DeWayne Carswell, Byron Chamberlain, Howard Griffith, Mark Schlereth, Tony Jones, Keith Traylor, Ma'a Tanuvasa, Alfred Williams, Mike Lodish, Trevor Pryce, Bill Romanowski, Glenn Cadrez, John Mobley, Keith Burns, Tory James, Darrien Gordon, Tyrone Braxton while developing guys like Tom Nalen, Rod Smith & Allen Aldridge into pro bowl players while winning 2 super bowls.

Alas, McD and Shanny were given the same amount of power coming in... Mike did something with it, McD is pissing it away.

bpc
09-06-2010, 03:19 PM
What kool aid am I drinking I said the defense sucked. Shanny said the same. We needed some more pieces which I don't think anybody doubts that. We had red zone problems which I've stated, turnover issues which I have stated. Did you even read my post or did you just get offended that I didn't agree with your assessment?

Nobody seems to remember that over the past five years mike was in town, he had numerous players die or suffer career ending injuries. Should 1 or 2 players make a unit? No, but it tremendously handicapped him when Trevor Pryce injured his back, Al Wilson suffered a damaged spinal chord and D-Will was shot and killed. Those were all backbreakers.

The MVPlaya
09-06-2010, 03:25 PM
Now that Iv'e had time to sit back and reflect and look at some stats ---> 49ers never led the league in passing either, as a good offense is built around a good balance.

Shanahan had a great running game for the most part, and his ability to rotate backs on a dial and be productive was amazing.

And if you're solely comparing Bill Walsh's passing game to Shanahan's rushing game... it's still tough because of the non success it had as time progressed aka team's evolving, scheme's evolving etc. Zone blocking is still productive but mainly between the 20 yard hash marks where as red zone scoring isn't as successful.

Did Shanahan invent his zone blocking system?

bpc
09-06-2010, 03:27 PM
I was but just wasn't really old enough to embrace it as I can now.

I think you went a little overboard with the Bill Walsh line.

1997 - 4th ranked
1998 - 2nd ranked
1999 - 12th ranked
2000 - 3rd ranked
2001 - 10th ranked
2002 - 5th ranked
2003 - 2nd ranked
2004 - 4th ranked
2005 - 2nd ranked
2006 - 8th ranked
2007 - 9th ranked
2008 - 12th ranked

This is total rushing, we can use average too and he wasn't ranked #1 any season either.

Now mind you - those are pretty consistent rankings ---> no one is denying that. Shanahan could make some high school running backs into 1000k rushers.

But when you're putting him into the ranks of Bill Walsh as far as just the running game goes (as compared to Walsh's passing game), you've gone a bit too far. You would he think we ranked #1 at least right? I did.

Don't get me wrong. Shanahan is a HOF coach. He's an all time great coach. The consistency he's shown is a rare feat amongst coaches.

However, we're not sitting here at 77 years old reminiscing about the all time greats and history. We're here on the OMane talking about what's going down THIS season and about RECENT history.

This is the business buddy. No doubt Shanahan deserves every Denver fan's respect and love. No ****ing doubt.

We are talking about the NFL in present context and Shanahan isn't on a great pedestal for that. He hasn't done much for the Broncos in RECENT HISTORY.

It's a new ****ing era.

I think it's time you decide if you're really a Broncos fan, or you're more a Shanahan fan. Be a ****ing man an own up to what's true to your core. Shanahan is still a coach and no one is stopping you from going to the Redskins. And if you're confident enough he'll win 1 or 2 more Super Bowls, I am not sure why the **** you're still here.

The whole top-half of this is pathetic blubbering by you. All I need to do with Walsh is mention, Joe Montana, Steve Young. All I need to do with Shanahan is mention TD, OG, Mike Anderson, Clinton Portis, Reuben Drougns, hell even Tatum Bell. People understand the consistency is that these two coaches produced even when people went down. Best at what they do, NO DOUBT.

In terms of deciding whether i'm a broncos fan, i've been one since birth and despite bitch-smacking the likes of you on a fan-board over things we disagree about, i've never left. I pull for this team just as I always have. I don't need any snot-nosed forum idiot questioning my fanhood as i've invested far more in this team vs. any casual fan. I don't always agree with McD (I have more and like the Tebow pick) but I hope for him to be successful because i'm tired of watching other teams in the playoffs. That being said, i'm going to root for Mike Shanahan to win EVERY week except one, and that's if his squad is facing my squad, the Denver Broncos.

Sit down, STFU, don't ever question my fan-hood again because i'm not above QUESTIONING or DISLIKING certain moves my team is making. That's something a fool would do, like you.

Requiem
09-06-2010, 03:28 PM
Yeah, MVP.

He is a super fan. Don't question is fanhood.

bpc
09-06-2010, 03:30 PM
Now that Iv'e had time to sit back and reflect and look at some stats ---> 49ers never led the league in passing either, as a good offense is built around a good balance.

Shanahan had a great running game for the most part, and his ability to rotate backs on a dial and be productive was amazing.

And if you're solely comparing Bill Walsh's passing game to Shanahan's rushing game... it's still tough because of the non success it had as time progressed aka team's evolving, scheme's evolving etc. Zone blocking is still productive but mainly between the 20 yard hash marks where as red zone scoring isn't as successful.

Did Shanahan invent his zone blocking system?

It's been since last season since we got in a disagreement and you're still as big a tool as ever. Thought I would throw that in there.

Shanahan's scheme + water = running game (EVEN WHEN YOU'RE ON YOUR 6TH starting HB, which was the case in 08')

The MVPlaya
09-06-2010, 03:31 PM
Nobody seems to remember that over the past five years mike was in town, he had numerous players die or suffer career ending injuries. Should 1 or 2 players make a unit? No, but it tremendously handicapped him when Trevor Pryce injured his back, Al Wilson suffered a damaged spinal chord and D-Will was shot and killed. Those were all backbreakers.

Uhh Trevor Pryce went on to have a nice career in Balt tying his career high in sacks the season after he left Denver. He's still a solid defensive player for them to this day.

Shanahan and Broncos FO didn't want to pay the man and thought they could find an easy replacement.

We all know how that went.

RIP Darrent Williams

However D Will was never a good coverage corner to begin with... the way it was going I wouldn't be surprised if we were still looking for a better DB.

And FYI injuries happen. I don't think you're giving a pass to McDaniels for all the bull**** that's happened this TC. I don't think you're giving him a pass for Dumervil not being there. He isn't either.

Don't set double standards unless you're willing to bite it.

Atwater His Ass
09-06-2010, 03:32 PM
Mike's a great guy. I feel strongly that we were going in the right direction. The defense needed a ton of work but the offense had some stalwarts in positions where you need them. He could come have wrapped around in 09's draft, picked up a big-time defensive player instead of using one on 900 yd rusher in Knowshon, and then drafted Shonn Greene in the 2nd round and we would have been in the playoffs last year.

Ah well. Water under the bridge. Mike's gonna win another super bowl or two. I hope that Tebow can fulfill the promise he showed in the preseason and get us to that level as well.

That team was strongly shaping up to be very similar to our Super Bowl winning teams. Mike had quality players at all the key positions on offense, minus RB.

Defense just needed to be tightened up. Much like the SB defenses, they didn't need to be great, just able to get some turnovers and hold people to 24 or less points.

Too bad, I was really looking forward to seeing that group develop. I always felt like Denver was finally starting to come out of the Elway hang over effect and was ripe to begin a new era.

TonyR
09-06-2010, 03:33 PM
Agreed

Wait, so you agree that Shanahan will win "another Super Bowl or two"? I think it's more likely that Shanahan never make the playoffs again than he wins another Super Bowl.

Gutless Drunk
09-06-2010, 03:33 PM
Over his last 16 years (1995-2008 in Denver and 1992-94 in San Francisco), Shanahan’s offenses have finished No. 1 in the NFL four times, No. 2 three times, No. 3 three times and No. 4 once. In his 14 seasons in Denver, the Broncos led the NFL in total yards (83,771), rushing yards (30,993) and first downs (4,678) and ranked third in points scored (5,449).

TonyR
09-06-2010, 03:34 PM
Defense just needed to be tightened up.

If by "tightened up" you mean "completely revamped" then yes, that's just what needed to be done.

The MVPlaya
09-06-2010, 03:35 PM
It's been since last season since we got in a disagreement and you're still as big a tool as ever. Thought I would throw that in there.

Shanahan's scheme + water = running game (EVEN WHEN YOU'RE ON YOUR 6TH starting HB, which was the case in 08')

All I'm saying is, why are you here? You're obviously only around when bad **** happens. I could understand if Shanny wasn't coaching, but he is. You're confident he is going to win a few more SB's, why are you here? There isn't a rulebook on how to be a fan.

Why waste negative energy towards a hobby and something you're suppose to enjoy? Fine, you don't like McDaniels, you don't support him, and you think he's a ****in idiot.

Shanahan is right over there in DC with a QB that he could turn into the "next John Elway." Why not actually enjoy the sport, follow Shanahan and enjoy some of the SB wins you claim? Be who you are and own the **** up to it.

Atwater His Ass
09-06-2010, 03:38 PM
If by "tightened up" you mean "completely revamped" then yes, that's just what needed to be done.

In this day and age you can't be superb on both sides of the ball. If the offense is good enough, the defense only has to be average.

Lolad
09-06-2010, 03:42 PM
If by "tightened up" you mean "completely revamped" then yes, that's just what needed to be done.

We needed a defense.... DING DING DING! But the offense was in place mind you Cutler only had 2 full starting seasons in the league at that point. Look how Orton has looked this year in the same consistent system.

bpc
09-06-2010, 03:42 PM
Uhh Trevor Pryce went on to have a nice career in Balt tying his career high in sacks the season after he left Denver. He's still a solid defensive player for them to this day.

Shanahan and Broncos FO didn't want to pay the man and thought they could find an easy replacement.

We all know how that went.

RIP Darrent Williams

However D Will was never a good coverage corner to begin with... the way it was going I wouldn't be surprised if we were still looking for a better DB.

And FYI injuries happen. I don't think you're giving a pass to McDaniels for all the bull**** that's happened this TC. I don't think you're giving him a pass for Dumervil not being there. He isn't either.

Don't set double standards unless you're willing to bite it.

Nobody knows how a player is going to react after back-surgery.... HS, College, or even on the toughest level, the NFL. Trevor Pryce was one of the highest paid players at his position and we had to make a choice whether to keep a player who was going to come back at 50% or lead all DT's in sacks again. We had to cut bait. Sucks, it was pretty much bad luck. Pryce went on to have a nice career in a defense which was loaded in Baltimore. He wasn't the 4th or 5th defender offensive coordinators were worried about on that defense. He made the plays in front of him but in Denver he was seeing double and triple teams, in Baltimore he was getting solo blocked each time.

As for D-Will, he had an explosive rookie season and regressed his 2nd year. We'll never know what the future was for him but I think it was pretty bright opposite of Champ Bailey. It's easy for most of you to bash him now... he's dead. Go on and have a party with it.

Where's your write up on losing Al Wilson, the heart and soul of the defense? Surely that didn't hurt at all since you didn't bring it up.

I expect Denver to win 5 or 6 games this year. Hope I'm wrong, that's my expectations. It was a killer to lose Doom and this is now a defense that pretty much lacks teeth in the front 7. We won't be able to rush the passer outside of exotic blitzes in my opinion which is going to leave players open down field. Hope I'm wrong, I doubt it though.

I'm not calling for McDaniels head yet. I've stated many times this offseason that McDaniels has one thing he needs to do and that's turn Tebow into a franchise QB. His reign is tied to Timmy and I think Timmy's success will mirror this teams record.

If they win, then he can stay. And if they lose McD will largely be known as a colossal failure during his time in Denver.

strafen
09-06-2010, 03:42 PM
Shanny is right. The offense was set. The upcoming draft which was very rich in defensive talent would've been perfect to grab the right guys.
The only thing that really bothered me at the end of the 2008season is that Shanny stated he wanted to retain Slowik as his DC.
That to me was disheartening, but you couldn't blame the guy.
He's fired too many DC that is some cases he shouldn't have, that having fired Slowik would've looked bad on him eventhough he deserved it...

bpc
09-06-2010, 03:48 PM
All I'm saying is, why are you here? You're obviously only around when bad **** happens. I could understand if Shanny wasn't coaching, but he is. You're confident he is going to win a few more SB's, why are you here? There isn't a rulebook on how to be a fan.

Why waste negative energy towards a hobby and something you're suppose to enjoy? Fine, you don't like McDaniels, you don't support him, and you think he's a ****in idiot.

Shanahan is right over there in DC with a QB that he could turn into the "next John Elway." Why not actually enjoy the sport, follow Shanahan and enjoy some of the SB wins you claim? Be who you are and own the **** up to it.

Blah blah blah.

You can't read. I'M A BRONCO fan. Just because I don't waste time on this forum picking fights with 21 year olds doesn't mean i'm not a true fan. I get on here and post when I feel like it, on threads I feel like posting on.

I didn't post this Mike Shanahan thread. Somebody else did. I felt compelled to voice my opinion which was the offense was well on it's way, and the defense was terrible but I had faith Mike could turn it around. Didn't happen like that. Now i post that he's a HOF and he'll win another super bowl or two and you're up in arms.

Why are you worried so much about me, when you should be reasoning out your own words before your word vomit on your keyboard again? Why can't you respect that people feel that Mike is a great coach and STFU? That is the question you should try to answer within your own mind.

bpc
09-06-2010, 03:51 PM
Wait, so you agree that Shanahan will win "another Super Bowl or two"? I think it's more likely that Shanahan never make the playoffs again than he wins another Super Bowl.

The only thing worth-while about your posts is your avatar. Besides that, worthless.

Shanahan will make the playoffs this year if his roster stays healthy, ie - Donovan McNabb.

Shanahan is going to coach circles around Wade Phillips, just as he did when he took over Phillips job in 94'.

Taco John
09-06-2010, 04:10 PM
It's still painful to read that, because I believe we'd be Superbowl favorites right now if we'd have stayed the course. Easily.

TDmvp
09-06-2010, 04:14 PM
It's still painful to read that, because I believe we'd be Superbowl favorites right now if we'd have stayed the course. Easily.

/agree ...

footstepsfrom#27
09-06-2010, 04:14 PM
Now mind you - those are pretty consistent rankings ---> no one is denying that. Shanahan could make some high school running backs into 1000k rushers.

But when you're putting him into the ranks of Bill Walsh as far as just the running game goes (as compared to Walsh's passing game), you've gone a bit too far. You would he think we ranked #1 at least right? I did.
Shanahan's rushing game led the entire NFL in total yards during the time he was here, so yes, despite never being #1 in any ONE season, over the entire time he was here Denver topped the rushing charts. It's an amazing feat, and one we should all agree is unique. That said, he didn't know, or sometimes seemingly care, how to build a defense, and that's essentially why he failed to return to the Superbowl in the post Elway era. I wish him huge success but it was time for Mike to find a fresh start, both for him and the Broncos.

rugbythug
09-06-2010, 04:14 PM
Really? I don't see it. The team was the same as it had been for many years. We caught lightening in 05

NUB
09-06-2010, 04:17 PM
"I wasn't mad. I was disappointed, because I thought we had the thing going the right direction. I thought the building blocks were there. Defensively, we needed some things, but we had pieces in place and I believed we could bring the defense up to where the offense was."

Hear hear.

footstepsfrom#27
09-06-2010, 04:21 PM
Shanny is right. The offense was set. The upcoming draft which was very rich in defensive talent would've been perfect to grab the right guys.The only thing that really bothered me at the end of the 2008season is that Shanny stated he wanted to retain Slowik as his DC.
That to me was disheartening, but you couldn't blame the guy.
The problem with that is that it assumes Mike COULD grab the right guys. Defense simply wasn't his forte, as great a coach as he is.

Requiem
09-06-2010, 04:31 PM
We lacked a quality defense for years, especially up front on the defensive line. For the most part, that problem was ignored, other than bringing in every God damn Cleveland Brown that ever played the game, besides Len Ford and Jim Houston. Should have given them a shot. Hilarious!

TDmvp
09-06-2010, 04:33 PM
To me it's hard to judge slowik because that year we was devastated by injuries on that side of the ball.

We had a fb playing Lb . Champ missed a bunch of games and we was so crap at safety with lynch gone.

Only a coach as good as Shanny would of had us a game from the playoffs with that amount of injuries and I'm not even counting the 100's of hbs we lost that year ...

Kaylore
09-06-2010, 04:34 PM
I love Mike and I always will. He brought the team 2 SB's and is a great game day coach. He is great at finding a few things guys can do on offense and feature them. I also believe he can win another SB in Washington. He has a that good D-line he was always chasing and never finding, a real defensive coordinator, and a real GM. He can just focus on coaching and winning.

I do have to laugh at the idea that "everything on the team was perfect except for a little tweak to the defense and one draft and some free agents would put it right." That is laughable. The defense was one of the worst I have ever seen in the pros. They were bad at literally everything. Even if you believe that Shanahan was somehow going to learn how to draft defensive players (unlikely) you have to agree that with him keeping Slowick we were going to be screwed.

The truth of it is Shanahan dug his own grave when he fired Coyer, and promoting Slowick drove the finals nails in the coffin of his career here in Denver. It's dissapointing that he couldn't (or probably didn't want to) see that Slow was his biggest problem. Well that and the turnovers, redzone woes and horrid special teams play. No, we were much, much, much father away than he wanted to believe. His complete denial of the situation is exactly why letting him go was the best thing for both parties.

Inkana7
09-06-2010, 04:37 PM
Alas, McD and Shanny were given the same amount of power coming in... Mike did something with it, McD is pissing it away.

Huh?

1995 Broncos: 8-8. Oh, with some guy named John Elway.

azbroncfan
09-06-2010, 04:37 PM
It's still painful to read that, because I believe we'd be Superbowl favorites right now if we'd have stayed the course. Easily.

Shanny started a Defense that only two players are left from that D and 90 percent of them are out of the league. Your a long ways away from a superbowl when you trot out John Engelberger, Webster, Manuel, and the rest of the bums from that D. Not to mention putting Elvis in a position where he was worthless against the run.

Atwater His Ass
09-06-2010, 04:38 PM
It's still painful to read that, because I believe we'd be Superbowl favorites right now if we'd have stayed the course. Easily.

...and therein lies the whole issue with how I just cannot get onboard with what McD and Bowlen have done to this team.

Winning is the only cure.

Kaylore
09-06-2010, 04:38 PM
To me it's hard to judge slowik because that year we was devastated by injuries on that side of the ball.

We had a fb playing Lb . Champ missed a bunch of games and we was so crap at safety with lynch gone.
Those weren't injuries. That was how Shanahan built the team. Spencer Larsen played fullback for one game. It's not like he was filling in all year there. And Champ played most of the year. That wasn't the problem. It was a series of bad free agent signings and wasted draft picks, coupled with probably the worst defensive coordinator the team has and likely will ever see. I love how Slowick produces the same garbage defenses everywhere he goes and yet people here keep trying to argue that he's a victim of circumstance each time. You guys are absolutely insane.

Inkana7
09-06-2010, 04:40 PM
It's still painful to read that, because I believe we'd be Superbowl favorites right now if we'd have stayed the course. Easily.

There is nothing in Shanahan's recent history of defensive coaching and personnel moves that would lead anyone not grasping at fantasy to come to this conclusion.

And it's not just that. Jay Cutler kind of sucks.

Archer81
09-06-2010, 04:40 PM
What part is fantasy? That we could have found a better player at #12 where we drafted Knowshon?


Generally everything you have posted the last month or so is fantasy. What ellicited the response from me this particular time was your belief that Shanny would have drafted Greene in the 2nd, and we would have been playoff bound in 09.

Considering no one knows what will happen, for you to say that definitively is the fantasy, almost worthy of penthouse.

:Broncos:

Archer81
09-06-2010, 04:41 PM
Those weren't injuries. That was how Shanahan built the team. Spencer Larsen played fullback for one game. It's not like he was filling in all year there. And Champ played most of the year. That wasn't the problem. It was a series of bad free agent signings and wasted draft picks, coupled with probably the worst defensive coordinator the team has and likely will ever see. I love how Slowick produces the same garbage defenses everywhere he goes and yet people here keep trying to argue that he's a victim of circumstance each time. You guys are absolutely insane.


This.


:Broncos:

uplink
09-06-2010, 04:42 PM
I don't believe this was 'in his own words'. I mean, I have never heard Shanny speak three successive sentences without using the phrase: 'chance to be something special.'

Requiem
09-06-2010, 04:44 PM
Shanahan probably thinks he is 6'0 tall too.

Archer81
09-06-2010, 04:47 PM
Shanahan probably thinks he is 6'0 tall too.


Well...any time you have someone that is 6'0 tall, you have a chance to do something special...


:Broncos:

Requiem
09-06-2010, 04:50 PM
Well...any time you have someone that is 6'0 tall, you have a chance to do something special...


:Broncos:

Haha! One of the funniest things I've read in a while. Cheers. ^5

Wes Mantooth
09-06-2010, 04:50 PM
Well...any time you have someone that is 6'0 tall, you have a chance to do something special...


:Broncos:

you are getting rep for that one!

Play2win
09-06-2010, 05:15 PM
It's still painful to read that, because I believe we'd be Superbowl favorites right now if we'd have stayed the course. Easily.


Thats so quacky, Ron Paul wouldn't even say it.



We would still be dealing with the frown cannon...

Br0nc0Buster
09-06-2010, 05:20 PM
when it comes to offense shanahan is the best around, and I liked him as a coach
I wish him well in Washington

but for people to suggest we were just a couple players away on defense is an absolute joke
Shannys personel decisions and his coaching hires on defense were awful, just awful
that mantra that we were one player away kept getting repeated over and over again and yet somehow we kept getting worse on defense

We were headed in a direction all right, the 2003 version of the KC Chiefs

Naggle Nole
09-06-2010, 05:25 PM
So the assumption is that if Shanahan were still here, Cutler and the D would have "gotten it"?
Cutler's story isn't finished, but he doesn't seem to be correcting his mistakes. If anything, he is regressing. Now he has a "QB-friendly" OC, so we will see, but the jury is still out...
As for the D, the last iteration of a Shanahan Broncos D was one of the worst in the last decade
We cut bait with guys that haven't seen an NFL roster since
I see nothing to make me believe that the drafting on the defensive side would have improved
Shanny would have gone back to FA like always and we would have blown our wad on a Haynesworth and proclaim the defense "fixed" because now the D-Line will be "set loose"
And this is all without even mentioning Slowik, who would have been retained ugh!~

Knowing what we know now, I can't regret not having BMarsh, Cutler, Sheffler and all the defensive castoffs
We always got our a**es handed to us by tougher teams (Baltimore, Pitt) or shredded by elite QBs (Manning, Rivers)
We needed a complete culture change, and we got it
Only time will tell if we got the right one

Lolad
09-06-2010, 05:25 PM
Shanny started a Defense that only two players are left from that D and 90 percent of them are out of the league. Your a long ways away from a superbowl when you trot out John Engelberger, Webster, Manuel, and the rest of the bums from that D. Not to mention putting Elvis in a position where he was worthless against the run.

You seem to be missing what Shanny said, he said the offense was in place now was the time to keep the offense in tact and get the defense together. He said it was bad.

LongDongJohnson
09-06-2010, 05:27 PM
the broncos were not going to win anything with that diabetic loser at QB and slowik coaching the defense.

listopencil
09-06-2010, 05:32 PM
This is the business buddy. No doubt Shanahan deserves every Denver fan's respect and love. No ****ing doubt.

We are talking about the NFL in present context and Shanahan isn't on a great pedestal for that. He hasn't done much for the Broncos in RECENT HISTORY.




I disagree with you on many things, but I think you are spot-on here.

Punisher
09-06-2010, 05:34 PM
What he meant when he said he had left a "Super Bowl offense" with the Broncos:
"That's what I think. You average 395 yards a game and lose six running backs (in 2008) and still average well over 4 yards per rush, that's a group capable of things. It was by no means perfect — too many turnovers, some red-zone issues — but you don't move the ball like that if you're not very capable. We were No. 2. To be in the Super Bowl, you have to have that kind of offense, be No. 1, No. 2, be No. 1 in defense. That's how you win Super Bowls. At least there was one side at that level. The job when you have one side like that is to get the other side (of the ball) to that level and maintain what you already have."


Wat a waste of time McD is the worst coach in NFL history.

azbroncfan
09-06-2010, 05:35 PM
You seem to be missing what Shanny said, he said the offense was in place now was the time to keep the offense in tact and get the defense together. He said it was bad.

Which takes a couple years and shanny's track record shows it probably wouldn't of ever been fixed.

Vegas_Bronco
09-06-2010, 05:39 PM
Shannahan's success with the Broncos and Broncos fanbase began far before he joined them as a HC. He began his tribute to us in Broncos Country by having a son instead of a daughter...it has helped you all to become weiners with an ounce more of morality.

Now...kiss his pinky rings.

gunns
09-06-2010, 05:44 PM
I thank Shanahan (and the team) for those two SB's. Second only to my family as far as thrills and memories. But his statement about thinking we were going in the right direction (10 years of that had gotten stale), that some changes on the defense would have worked (not with Slowik, and throwing garbage at the D doesn't work) and that we had a "SB offense" tells me he saw things from behind rose colored glasses. It was time for him to go.

baja
09-06-2010, 05:52 PM
It's still painful to read that, because I believe we'd be Superbowl favorites right now if we'd have stayed the course. Easily.

What a statement - is board traffic off that much?

baja
09-06-2010, 05:55 PM
I thank Shanahan (and the team) for those two SB's. Second only to my family as far as thrills and memories. But his statement about thinking we were going in the right direction (10 years of that had gotten stale), that some changes on the defense would have worked (not with Slowik, and throwing garbage at the D doesn't work) and that we had a "SB offense" tells me he saw things from behind rose colored glasses. It was time for him to go.

I too respect Shanny the coach but if the GM in Washington is not the real personal power then Shanny will fail there too.

footstepsfrom#27
09-06-2010, 06:02 PM
Which takes a couple years and shanny's track record shows it probably wouldn't of ever been fixed.
True...nice definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Vegas_Bronco
09-06-2010, 06:05 PM
True...nice definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

...or doing the same thing over and over again and not expecting any results at all.

azbroncfan
09-06-2010, 06:10 PM
True...nice definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Yeah it's not like the defense was awesome then all of the sudden one bad year. There hadn't been a pass rush since the super bowl years and even then it was most of the pressure was because the O scored so many points it put the other team in catch up mode and predictable plays.

TonyR
09-06-2010, 06:41 PM
The only thing worth-while about your posts is your avatar. Besides that, worthless.

Shanahan will make the playoffs this year if his roster stays healthy, ie - Donovan McNabb.

Shanahan is going to coach circles around Wade Phillips, just as he did when he took over Phillips job in 94'.

To your first point, I will have many sleepless nights pondering how I can possibly live up to the standards of your posting prowess.

To your second point, I hope you're right. I live in Eagles territory and I'd love nothing more than to watch them melt down after being bested by Shanahan and McNabb. But I don't think there's much chance the Skins make the playoffs this year. Too questionable on the O-line and O skill positions.

As for coaching circles around Phillips, I'll go with the guy with the better players. The Cowboys are considerably more talented than the Skins.

TonyR
09-06-2010, 06:46 PM
...the defense only has to be average.

The problem being that the defense wasn't even close to being average, and a couple of draft picks wasn't going to fix it. And about the offense, what has Jay Cutler done or shown to inspire such confidence? That loser was going to bring this team to a Super Bowl with an "average" defense? Please.

Gutless Drunk
09-06-2010, 06:57 PM
The problem being that the defense wasn't even close to being average, and a couple of draft picks wasn't going to fix it. And about the offense, what has Jay Cutler done or shown to inspire such confidence? That loser was going to bring this team to a Super Bowl with an "average" defense? Please.

It wasn't just a couple of draft picks to work with. We had 9 picks and $37 Million in cap space. I don't know why people think it would have been an impossible accomplishment to become average to good, because it obviously wasn't, as they accomplished just that. They went from 29th to 7th.
Do you really think it was not possible for Shanahan and the Goodmans' to have similarly upgraded the roster?
Of course it would have been coached by Slowick so it probably wouldn't have mattered. But, jeez... it wasn't the impossible journey or anything

Lolad
09-06-2010, 07:12 PM
It wasn't just a couple of draft picks to work with. We had 9 picks and $37 Million in cap space. I don't know why people think it would have been an impossible accomplishment to become average to good, because it obviously wasn't, as they accomplished just that. They went from 29th to 7th.
Do you really think it was not possible for Shanahan and the Goodmans' to have similarly upgraded the roster?
Of course it would have been coached by Slowick so it probably wouldn't have mattered. But, jeez... it wasn't the impossible journey or anything

This man has talked to Tebow because he speaks nothing but TRUTH!

Gort
09-06-2010, 07:13 PM
So the assumption is that if Shanahan were still here, Cutler and the D would have "gotten it"?
Cutler's story isn't finished, but he doesn't seem to be correcting his mistakes. If anything, he is regressing. Now he has a "QB-friendly" OC, so we will see, but the jury is still out...
As for the D, the last iteration of a Shanahan Broncos D was one of the worst in the last decade
We cut bait with guys that haven't seen an NFL roster since
I see nothing to make me believe that the drafting on the defensive side would have improved
Shanny would have gone back to FA like always and we would have blown our wad on a Haynesworth and proclaim the defense "fixed" because now the D-Line will be "set loose"
And this is all without even mentioning Slowik, who would have been retained ugh!~

Knowing what we know now, I can't regret not having BMarsh, Cutler, Sheffler and all the defensive castoffs
We always got our a**es handed to us by tougher teams (Baltimore, Pitt) or shredded by elite QBs (Manning, Rivers)
We needed a complete culture change, and we got it
Only time will tell if we got the right one

it's scary to think that if Shanny were still here, he probably would have convinced Bowlen to pony up $100M for fat albert.

this team would be have been so screwed up, guys like Champ would be chomping at the bit to get out of here.

Inkana7
09-06-2010, 07:13 PM
It wasn't just a couple of draft picks to work with. We had 9 picks and $37 Million in cap space. I don't know why people think it would have been an impossible accomplishment to become average to good, because it obviously wasn't, as they accomplished just that. They went from 29th to 7th.
Do you really think it was not possible for Shanahan and the Goodmans' to have similarly upgraded the roster?
Of course it would have been coached by Slowick so it probably wouldn't have mattered. But, jeez... it wasn't the impossible journey or anything

Based on what Shannahan and the Goodmans had done to that point, I'd say no way in hell would they be able to put together a good defense. Hell, they'd probably draft more offensive players and not even bother drafting defensive busts.

Kaylore
09-06-2010, 07:20 PM
Well...any time you have someone that is 6'0 tall, you have a chance to do something special...


:Broncos:

LOL I miss the Shanahanisms, but not really.

Anytime you ________________ you have chance to do something special.

We're talking about the National Football league so ________________.

He's going to get treatment and then we'll take a look _____________________.

ColoradoDarin
09-06-2010, 07:20 PM
Maybe he has learned something in his year off, this is a pretty bad indictment of his last few years here. He was so busy looking for the next "Elway" to run his complicated offense, he neglected the defense and especially the special teams to the point that both were the worst in the league. And IIRC, the 2008 defense was the 2nd worst defense in the history of the league (saved by the 0-16 Lions defense being worse).

What is amazing that we had a good TEAM in 2005 that he built. We were good on defense - we could have used a dominant d-lineman (of course, been looking for those for 12 years now) and we were good on offense. Neither were spectacular, but they had been improving over the course of a few years.

We made the playoffs only to be handed our hats by Manning in 2 consecutive years, and then we make it to the AFCCG and he decided to remake the offense?? Coming off of that game we had 2 1st round picks, #22 and #29 I think, and then moved up to #15 and #22. Right in the place where all the draft experts around here tell me we should want to be! People complain about the last couple of years drafting, but what team doesn't want to be coming off a CG appearance sitting with a couple of top picks like that to add in the missing pieces? Even if we do the trade to move us up to #11 - Haloti Ngata!! is sitting right there. 2006 draft was the perfect place to bring in a few guys because we were actually 'one or two players' away.

Nope, Shanahan needed his shiny sports car of a QB. All we had was a guy who won games a lot more than he lost them, and that apparently wasn't enough, and ironically, McNabb fits more the mold of Plummer.

It's hard to judge tone in print, but this really seems to be some classless answers and I've lost a bit of respect for Mike Shanahan. Alright, I still can't be that mad at the man, he brought us 2 Rings, but the justification is in overdrive.

Rock Chalk
09-06-2010, 07:25 PM
Mike's a great guy. I feel strongly that we were going in the right direction. The defense needed a ton of work but the offense had some stalwarts in positions where you need them. He could come have wrapped around in 09's draft, picked up a big-time defensive player instead of using one on 900 yd rusher in Knowshon, and then drafted Shonn Greene in the 2nd round and we would have been in the playoffs last year.

Ah well. Water under the bridge. Mike's gonna win another super bowl or two. I hope that Tebow can fulfill the promise he showed in the preseason and get us to that level as well.

Except he couldnt draft or develop defensive talent for ****. The defense was never going to get better under Mike, ever.

The offense was not superbowl caliber either. Despite what he thinks. Red zone issues and turnovers on offense are ****ing killers, no matter how well you move the ball. If you turn it over and you cant score TDs in the red zone your offense is ****ing ****.

Archer81
09-06-2010, 07:29 PM
Except he couldnt draft or develop defensive talent for ****. The defense was never going to get better under Mike, ever.

The offense was not superbowl caliber either. Despite what he thinks. Red zone issues and turnovers on offense are ****ing killers, no matter how well you move the ball. If you turn it over and you cant score TDs in the red zone your offense is ****ing ****.


Kind of reflects the mindset Shanahan had the last few seasons. Getting the #1 or 2 ranked offense in yards...what about points, Mike? If you are turning it over in the RZ or getting 3 instead of 7, you lose more times then you win.

:Broncos:

WolfpackGuy
09-06-2010, 07:32 PM
Nope, Shanahan needed his shiny sports car of a QB. All we had was a guy who won games a lot more than he lost them, and that apparently wasn't enough, and ironically, McNabb fits more the mold of Plummer.


Teams had figured out to keep Plummer in the pocket.

The Cutler pick was for more down the road, but Jake crapped the bed so bad in the 2005 playoffs and early 2006, something had to give.

ColoradoDarin
09-06-2010, 07:41 PM
Teams had figured out to keep Plummer in the pocket.

The Cutler pick was for more down the road, but Jake crapped the bed so bad in the 2005 playoffs and early 2006, something had to give.

We were 7-4 the next year when he benched the winner for the loser. Headed to the playoffs again? Nah, we didn't need that. Man, what could have been if we drafted Ngata instead of Cutler.....

Steve Sewell
09-06-2010, 08:13 PM
Shanahan is the greatest coach in Broncos history. I love the guy, and hope he does well (unless he's coaching another team in the AFC West or against the Broncos).

Gutless Drunk
09-06-2010, 08:15 PM
Except he couldnt draft or develop defensive talent for ****. The defense was never going to get better under Mike, ever.

The offense was not superbowl caliber either. Despite what he thinks. Red zone issues and turnovers on offense are ****ing killers, no matter how well you move the ball. If you turn it over and you cant score TDs in the red zone your offense is ****ing ****.

You really think he could never improve on a 29th ranked defense?
Yea..I guess that would be impossible..he had no history of having even an average defense:


Total Defense –Denver Broncos
Year Defensive ranking
1995 15
1996 4
1997 5
1998 11
1999 7
2000 24
2001 8
2002 6
2003 4
2004 4
2005 15
2006 14
2007 19
2008 29

In 14 seasons the defense was ranked below average three times.
Average defensive ranking for his tenure would be 12th.
Yea...the numbers aren't great..but the premise of this argument was "average"
To definitively state that he could never improve upon 29th is laughable.

Clockwork Orange
09-06-2010, 08:17 PM
Shanahan is the greatest coach in Broncos history. I love the guy, and hope he does well (unless he's coaching another team in the AFC West or against the Broncos).

Co-signed.

strafen
09-06-2010, 08:24 PM
You really think he could never improve on a 29th ranked defense?
Yea..I guess that would be impossible..he had no history of having even an average defense:


Total Defense –Denver Broncos
Year Defensive ranking
1995 15
1996 4
1997 5
1998 11
1999 7
2000 24
2001 8
2002 6
2003 4
2004 4
2005 15
2006 14
2007 19
2008 29

In 14 seasons the defense was ranked below average three times.
Average defensive ranking for his tenure would be 12th.
Yea...the numbers aren't great..but the premise of this argument was "average"
To definitively state that he would never improve upon 29th is laughable.

Thanks for posting that. I thought we were actually worse.

azbroncfan
09-06-2010, 08:28 PM
Thanks for posting that. I thought we were actually worse.

It was because the run D usually was pretty good under shanny but Denver was torched by passing teams due to having to blitz for pressure.

Lolad
09-06-2010, 08:41 PM
We were 7-4 the next year when he benched the winner for the loser. Headed to the playoffs again? Nah, we didn't need that. Man, what could have been if we drafted Ngata instead of Cutler.....

I guess you forgot how bad our scoring was in the 1st 11 games. We barely could score any points the defense carried us for wins I think the 1st 6 games then we started losing.

2006 Season in scoring/Defense 1st 6 weeks of the season.

OFF DEF
10 18
9 6
17 7
bye week
13 3
13 3
17 7

We averaged 13.1 ppg the first 7 weeks of the season
on Defense we gave up only 7.3 ppg! Plummer looked awful that year the defense was the main reason we were 7-4. After they fell apart, Shanny knew we had to score and if we didn't we wouldn't go far in the playoffs anyway.

strafen
09-06-2010, 08:51 PM
It was because the run D usually was pretty good under shanny but Denver was torched by passing teams due to having to blitz for pressure.

One of the reasons -and this was talked about at the time- we've got Champ was to improve our passing defense and moew specifically to be able to contain Manning who had been torching our secondary in previous seasons...

TonyR
09-06-2010, 08:59 PM
Do you really think it was not possible for Shanahan and the Goodmans' to have similarly upgraded the roster?


I don't know but go make a list of Shanny's last defensive FA class and post it here for us all. You may just throw up on your keyboard before you finish typing those names. Go ahead, give it a shot.

azbroncfan
09-06-2010, 09:03 PM
One of the reasons -and this was talked about at the time- we've got Champ was to improve our passing defense and moew specifically to be able to contain Manning who had been torching our secondary in previous seasons...

Yep but a corner is about useless without a pass rush. Now Champ played at HOF level but without a pass rush there was nothing he could do against the good passing teams such as the Colts.

strafen
09-06-2010, 09:11 PM
Yep but a corner is about useless without a pass rush. Now Champ played at HOF level but without a pass rush there was nothing he could do against the good passing teams such as the Colts.

True.

HAT
09-06-2010, 09:15 PM
The only thing worth-while about your posts is your avatar. Besides that, worthless.

Shanahan will make the playoffs this year if his roster stays healthy, ie - Donovan McNabb.

Shanahan is going to coach circles around Wade Phillips, just as he did when he took over Phillips job in 94'.

LOL

No worries bro....You can take Atlas to Homecoming when that doesn't happen and consider yourselves consoled.

The MVPlaya
09-06-2010, 09:18 PM
The only thing worth-while about your posts is your avatar. Besides that, worthless.

Shanahan will make the playoffs this year if his roster stays healthy, ie - Donovan McNabb.

Shanahan is going to coach circles around Wade Phillips, just as he did when he took over Phillips job in 94'.

Please tell me what basis you are using that the Redskins will make the playoffs, when he has the least talent roster in that division? Yet when he had the 2nd most talent roster in a ****ty division as the AFC west, he couldn't?

baja
09-06-2010, 09:23 PM
Yep but a corner is about useless without a pass rush. Now Champ played at HOF level but without a pass rush there was nothing he could do against the good passing teams such as the Colts.

So taking away half the field or a key receiver is "nothing".

Ever consider how bad the D might have been without the Champ?

azbroncfan
09-06-2010, 09:24 PM
Over his last 16 years (1995-2008 in Denver and 1992-94 in San Francisco), Shanahan’s offenses have finished No. 1 in the NFL four times, No. 2 three times, No. 3 three times and No. 4 once. In his 14 seasons in Denver, the Broncos led the NFL in total yards (83,771), rushing yards (30,993) and first downs (4,678) and ranked third in points scored (5,449).

Yeah he had 2 HOF qb's. Shanny knows offense that is for sure just keep him away from talent evaluation on defense.

Merlin
09-06-2010, 09:43 PM
Yet when he had the 2nd most talent roster in a ****ty division as the AFC west, he couldn't?
You really need to stop posting with the insights of a teenager. There are two generally accepted facts about Shanny. He was pathetic in drafts (although he improved with the last GM), and his teams would always perform far better than their talent. To suggest that the talent in his teams should have performed better is just idiotic.

As to his offense, and extremely young offense, with a lot of growing pains, but if there was one coach that would get them there it was Shanny. Those who mentioned that his comments on the offense were off because of the points scored...I'm not going to bother discussing the history of the STs, D and and injuries at RB that yr...all I'll say is look at the history of his teams and scoring. He transformed JP into a reliable QB. Some people like to remember JP as a winner...but he STUNK before he Shanny taught him how to take care of the ball. Look up JP's TD-INT rate before and after Shanny, look at his wins. Shanny would have easily taught Cutler to be a better QB (Cutler was a far better student). The big problem with Shanny's last yr of offense is that he gave his OC far too much leeway...but looking at Shanny's history with taking care of the ball, it is not hard to imaging he would have solved that problem the following yr.

The MVPlaya
09-06-2010, 09:48 PM
You really need to stop posting with the insights of a teenager. There are two generally accepted facts about Shanny. He was pathetic in drafts (although he improved with the last GM), and his teams would always perform far better than their talent. To suggest that the talent in his teams should have performed better is just idiotic.

As to his offense, and extremely young offense, with a lot of growing pains, but if there was one coach that would get them there it was Shanny. Those who mentioned that his comments on the offense were off because of the points scored...I'm not going to bother discussing the history of the STs, D and and injuries at RB that yr...all I'll say is look at the history of his teams and scoring. KUBIAK transformed JP into a reliable QB. Some people like to remember JP as a winner...but he STUNK before he Shanny taught him how to take care of the ball. Look up JP's TD-INT rate before and after Shanny, look at his wins. Shanny would have easily taught Cutler to be a better QB (Cutler was a far better student). The big problem with Shanny's last yr of offense is that he gave his OC far too much leeway...but looking at Shanny's history with taking care of the ball, it is not hard to imaging he would have solved that problem the following yr.

I fixed it for you a bit.

And why are you taking my quote out of context? The line before it is as important as the line you quoted, they go hand in hand in the point I was making.

SO LIKE I SAID ---

What is the basis that Shanny will make the playoffs when he has the LEAST talent in the division? When he was in DENVER he had the 2nd most talent and yet STILL COULDN'T MAKE THE PLAYOFFS.

No one is denying that Shanny didn't prepare his team well coming out the gates to contend for that season. However, that is not what the **** I'm talking about, stupid ****.

HAT
09-06-2010, 10:05 PM
"I wasn't mad. I was disappointed, because I thought we had the thing going the right direction. I thought the building blocks were there. Defensively, we needed some things, but we had pieces in place and I believed we could bring the defense up to where the offense was."

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/CutlerPenn.JPG

Riiiiiight?

baja
09-06-2010, 10:11 PM
You really need to stop posting with the insights of a teenager. There are two generally accepted facts about Shanny. He was pathetic in drafts (although he improved with the last GM), and his teams would always perform far better than their talent. To suggest that the talent in his teams should have performed better is just idiotic.

As to his offense, and extremely young offense, with a lot of growing pains, but if there was one coach that would get them there it was Shanny. Those who mentioned that his comments on the offense were off because of the points scored...I'm not going to bother discussing the history of the STs, D and and injuries at RB that yr...all I'll say is look at the history of his teams and scoring. He transformed JP into a reliable QB. Some people like to remember JP as a winner...but he STUNK before he Shanny taught him how to take care of the ball. <b>Look up JP's TD-INT rate before and after Shanny</b>, look at his wins. Shanny would have easily taught Cutler to be a better QB (Cutler was a far better student). The big problem with Shanny's last yr of offense is that he gave his OC far too much leeway...but looking at Shanny's history with taking care of the ball, it is not hard to imaging he would have solved that problem the following yr.

So they have TDs and INTs in handball, who knew.

Merlin
09-06-2010, 10:13 PM
When he was in DENVER he had the 2nd most talent and yet STILL COULDN'T MAKE THE PLAYOFFS.
Again, what is the basis for this bonehead assessment (i.e. Denver was a talented team that deserved to make the playoffs), and for your bonehead supposition that it was Kubiak and not Shanny and his offensive philosophies that transformed JP? Every QB Shanny has worked with had far better records with him than without him, but you in your brilliant insight think it was Kubiak. Once again your age and general lack of experience in following the NFL are showing.

Merlin
09-06-2010, 10:14 PM
So they have TDs and INTs in handball, who knew.

LOL Hilarious!

Got me there :clown:

Broncojef
09-06-2010, 10:18 PM
He's is successful NFL Head Coach. They all have huge egos and are pricks, that what makes them successful because they can not see themselves failing.

The shanahan press conference after losing in embarassing style to the Colts in the play-offs still leaves me at a loss for words, basically said they were very close and the team was solid. I swear he was using the jedi mind trick thinking everyone was buying his BS. I really miss Shanny but it was time for him to go.

TonyR
09-07-2010, 06:35 AM
Please tell me what basis you are using that the Redskins will make the playoffs, when he has the least talent roster in that division? Yet when he had the 2nd most talent roster in a ****ty division as the AFC west, he couldn't?

I think the Shanahan lovers are in for wake up call when the Skins go 5-11 this season.

jhns
09-07-2010, 09:23 AM
I think the Shanahan lovers are in for wake up call when the Skins go 5-11 this season.

I think the Shanahan haters are in for a wake up call when he wins more games than this team this season. He will show us fans that a new coach can actually improve a team. He won't need all of the new team, new system, blah, blah, and blah excuses like some other coach that gets them.

TonyR
09-07-2010, 09:52 AM
He will show us fans that a new coach can actually improve a team.

His starting WR's are Joey Galloway and Santana Moss and you know Rex Grossman will be a factor (and not a positive one) at some point during the season. They're going to have to get an awful lot out of Cooley and Portis for that offense to succeed. I just don't see it.

maher_tyler
09-07-2010, 09:58 AM
Yea the 08 offense sucked

Sucked is putting it lightly imo...

BroncoInferno
09-07-2010, 10:13 AM
This has been hashed and rehashed since last year, but if we had to 08 offense (w/ year 2 in the system) and the 09 defense (1st 6 games, spotty afterwards) we would have went deep.

We wouldn't have had the '09 defense if Mike had stayed. He was planning to keep Slowik and continue with the 4-3. Starting with the second half of '06, the defense had gotten progressively more putrid with no legitimate hope of improvement. Mike's personnel decisions with regards to the D had gotten progressively worse (Boss Bailey, the hideous safetys he brought in, the revolving door of retread DL, failed defensive draft picks). Why anyone had any confidence that he was going to suddenly get the defense fixed is a mystery to me. It was getting worse and worse.

As far as the offense goes, given that Cutler has only gotten worse in the TO department, there is no reason to think that would have improved either. A putrid defense and a turnover prone offense is not "going in the right direction."

Tombstone RJ
09-07-2010, 10:21 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: its much harder to build a great offense than it is to build a great defense in the NFL. Mike always had good offenses for the most part and with Cutler & Co. he had the makings of a great offense. His problem was he could never get the defense together and he was basically in denial about the defense. In the end, it got him fired. I still don't understand Shanahan and his defensive philosophy(s).

HAT
09-07-2010, 10:23 AM
His starting WR's are Joey Galloway and Santana Moss and you know Joey Harrington will be a factor (and not a positive one) at some point during the season. They're going to have to get an awful lot out of Cooley and Portis for that offense to succeed. I just don't see it.

You know better than to engage jhz....much less quote him.

peacepipe
09-07-2010, 11:29 AM
I hate to say but I wouldn't be surprised to see Shanahan win a SB before we do.

mikeauran
09-07-2010, 11:33 AM
His starting WR's are Joey Galloway and Santana Moss and you know Joey Harrington will be a factor (and not a positive one) at some point during the season. They're going to have to get an awful lot out of Cooley and Portis for that offense to succeed. I just don't see it.

:kiddingme

Tombstone RJ
09-07-2010, 11:40 AM
I hate to say but I wouldn't be surprised to see Shanahan win a SB before we do.

That's a fair statement. I don't begrudge Shanny success. What I will do is defend the Broncos for firing Shanny and hiring a young upcoming coach. When you do that it's always a gamble but the long term payoff could be spectacular.

TonyR
09-07-2010, 11:41 AM
:kiddingme

Oops. Note my edit replacing one loser QB for another...

TonyR
09-07-2010, 11:48 AM
That's a fair statement.

Is it? I'm not so sure. It's coming up on 13 years since he last won a Super Bowl, an interim in which he has 1 playoff win. Is he just overdue, is that the logic? Personally I'll choose the talent and direction of the Broncos over the Redskins.

Tombstone RJ
09-07-2010, 11:50 AM
Is it? I'm not so sure. It's coming up on 13 years since he last won a Super Bowl, an interim in which he has 1 playoff win. Is he just overdue, is that the logic? Personally I'll choose the talent and direction of the Broncos over the Redskins.

Sometimes change is good and I think that is the case for Shanny too. He just needed to get out of Denver, he was too entrenched in his ways and it resulted in some very disappointing seasons.

Change can be good for everyone.

TheReverend
09-07-2010, 11:51 AM
Is it? I'm not so sure. It's coming up on 13 years since he last won a Super Bowl, an interim in which he has 1 playoff win. Is he just overdue, is that the logic? Personally I'll choose the talent and direction of the Broncos over the Redskins.

If Nick Ferguson could catch a ball that's going to hit him in the face, it'd be coming up on 5 years since he won a Super Bowl. Just sayin.

jhns
09-07-2010, 11:56 AM
His starting WR's are Joey Galloway and Santana Moss and you know Rex Grossman will be a factor (and not a positive one) at some point during the season. They're going to have to get an awful lot out of Cooley and Portis for that offense to succeed. I just don't see it.

So you are betting against his offense? Have you seen his resume?

I guess we will see. He will make McDaniels look pretty bad if he manages to go over .500 this year with a team that had a top 5 pick.

baja
09-07-2010, 11:56 AM
Sometimes change is good and I think that is the case for Shanny too. He just needed to get out of Denver, he was too entrenched in his ways and it resulted in some very disappointing seasons.

Change can be good for everyone.

thats what obama said...

baja
09-07-2010, 11:58 AM
If Nick Ferguson could catch a ball that's going to hit him in the face, it'd be coming up on 5 years since he won a Super Bowl. Just sayin.

now there's a stretch.

jhns
09-07-2010, 12:01 PM
You know better than to engage jhz....much less quote him.

I must have really upset you. This has turned into a good portion of your posting now. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings hat. You should really learn to get over your hurt feelings though, crying all the time is bad for your health.

Tombstone RJ
09-07-2010, 12:02 PM
thats what obama said...

rofl!

TheReverend
09-07-2010, 12:03 PM
now there's a stretch.

Mild exaggeration, but the point's valid. We had several turnover opportunities that went uncapitalized on.

Regardless, the ball wasn't bouncing our way and we couldn't stop them so we deserved to lose.

baja
09-07-2010, 12:05 PM
Mild exaggeration, but the point's valid. We had several turnover opportunities that went uncapitalized on.

Regardless, the ball wasn't bouncing our way and we couldn't stop them so we deserved to lose.

i agree we had chances to win that game but i have my doubts that we could have beat seattle

Champagne Powder
09-07-2010, 12:22 PM
I was really excited about the upcoming Broncos season, but reading this thread made me sick to my stomach.

Some Broncos fans are just bad people. They want to take the fun out of football and make it miserable for others.

Beantown Bronco
09-07-2010, 12:23 PM
i agree we had chances to win that game but i have my doubts that we could have beat seattle

If the refs were on our side like they were with the Steelers, it would've been a cake-walk.

The MVPlaya
09-07-2010, 12:24 PM
I was really excited about the upcoming Broncos season, but reading this thread made me sick to my stomach.

Some Broncos fans are just bad people. They want to take the fun out of football and make it miserable for others.

I suggest you not log onto the Mane if you're excited for the season unless you're willing to deal with the bull****. Add some people onto ignore would help too.

TheReverend
09-07-2010, 12:24 PM
i agree we had chances to win that game but i have my doubts that we could have beat seattle

We would've demolished Seattle.

The MVPlaya
09-07-2010, 12:25 PM
In case you haven't noticed, some people still haven't experienced Y2K yet.

baja
09-07-2010, 12:37 PM
We would've demolished Seattle.

I'm as big a homer as they come but if it were not for the amazing talent of Shanny as a game day coach we would not have even been in that AFCC game. Seattle got jobbed in that SB but I guess we will never know.

Do you think we will win in Jacksonville?

The MVPlaya
09-07-2010, 12:43 PM
I'm as big a homer as they come but if it were not for the amazing talent of Shanny as a game day coach we would not have even been in that AFCC game. Seattle got jobbed in that SB but I guess we will never know.

Do you think we will win in Jacksonville?

I'll answer for him:

No. We won't have a chance to win any football games until Tebow starts.

Boobs McGee
09-07-2010, 12:51 PM
If Nick Ferguson could catch a ball that's going to hit him in the face, it'd be coming up on 5 years since he won a Super Bowl. Just sayin.

Or champ actually coming down with that pick (EASY six)...lombardi woulda been ours

TheReverend
09-07-2010, 12:57 PM
I'm as big a homer as they come but if it were not for the amazing talent of Shanny as a game day coach we would not have even been in that AFCC game. Seattle got jobbed in that SB but I guess we will never know.

Do you think we will win in Jacksonville?

I dunno. I'm not touching that game. I get to be there though, so I'm extremely excited for it.

If Clady and Harris and Knowshon were 100%, I'd be all on board, but Clady's rusty, Harris will be out, we haven't seen Knowshon really play since 2009, Baybay missed a massive chunk of training camp, etc.

It's a game of match ups and the Jaguars have a sharp DL this year, and the schedule lines up to where we have to play them where it'll be 2 rookies first action on the OL, a rusty Clady, and Daniels at LG...

I think it's unfortunate timing and health for us so it's going to be two teams pushing each other around defensively. Unfortunately Wink is still an unknown quantity as well, so it's hard to gauge outside of a terrific job calling the D against Pitt.

I think we pull it out, but that's probably me just being a fan as I don't think there's not much intellectual basis to put behind it. More of a coin flip since we have so many questions at different spots this year.

Vegas has us 2.5 pt underdogs, but 3 pts are usually givin to the road team, so they see us as a wash also.

TheReverend
09-07-2010, 12:58 PM
Or champ actually coming down with that pick (EASY six)...lombardi woulda been ours

Frustrating as well, but keep in mind his arm was in a sling and that ball was overhead... didn't have enough mobility to bring it down.

That fumble drove me insane.

TheReverend
09-07-2010, 01:02 PM
I'll answer for him:

No. We won't have a chance to win any football games until Tebow starts.

You're an idiot.

baja
09-07-2010, 01:03 PM
I hear ya, throw in that Sept. Florida heat and well let's jut say I'll be pleasantly surprised if we pull it out. It pains me but I gotta go with the Jags with my pick-um choices.

I just hope we get out of the game without any key injuries.

edit; for Rev

TheReverend
09-07-2010, 01:11 PM
I hear ya, throw in that Sept. Florida heat and well let's jut say I'll be pleasantly surprised if we pull it out. It pains me but I gotta go with the Jags with my pick-um choices.

I just hope we get out of the game without any key injuries.

edit; for Rev

It's the timing that scares me. We happen to be injury and inexperience laden along the OL just in time to play a very good DL.

What gives me confidence: We can slow the rush with the screen... and lord knows we love to ****ing screen pass. We have DG back just in time to give Beadles some training wheels and slide protection to the inside. And we'll out coach Del Rio all day.

baja
09-07-2010, 01:17 PM
It's the timing that scares me. We happen to be injury and inexperience laden along the OL just in time to play a very good DL.

What gives me confidence: We can slow the rush with the screen... and lord knows we love to ****ing screen pass. We have DG back just in time to give Beadles some training wheels and slide protection to the inside. <b>And we'll out coach Del Rio all day.

That's the main thing I would hang my hat on for a W.

TonyR
09-07-2010, 01:18 PM
We would've demolished Seattle.

Maybe, but I think that team was better than a lot of people remember. 13-3, good O and D, Shaun Alexander in his prime (rushed for 1,880 yds), had the 2nd best differential behind Indy (scored the most points, gave up the 6th least), etc. They did play in a lousy division but you can only beat who you play.

oubronco
09-07-2010, 01:23 PM
I was really excited about the upcoming Broncos season, but reading this thread made me sick to my stomach.

Some Broncos fans are just bad people. They want to take the fun out of football and make it miserable for others.

Just put the idiots on ignore

There are a bunch of us that are excited about this year and think we will surprise poeple

azbroncfan
09-07-2010, 01:36 PM
We would've demolished Seattle.

I think we could of beat seattle but not necessarily demolished them. They were a physical team with great Offense and good defense. Would of been a good game. They screwed the pooch against Pittsburgh along with the officials taking it too them in that superbowl.

toad
09-07-2010, 01:47 PM
I liked (and still do like) Shanny but had no problems accepting it was time to move on.

Basically 7-8 years of overall mediocrity (1 playoff win), IMO....3 playoff appearances, 2 of which we get smoked (and I mean SMOKED) by Indy in the first round.

He seemed too obsessed with the "vanity" aspect of the offense to me...all show and no real meat (seemed super potent between the 20s but simply couldn't close in the red zone). This started w/ being seduced by Cutler's arm which, incidentally, I think drafting Cutler was the beginning of the end for Shanny; he took a team 1 win away from a Super Bowl we likely would have won and split the locker room and stepped back 2 seasons on the promise of Cutler's physical tools.

It just VERY hard to take a conf championship team and "gut" the offense only to go to .500 and miss the playoffs the next 3 years.

He also seemed somewhat impatient/panicky with the defense...making stretch picks (Jarvis Moss) and changing DC far too many times while ultimately settling on one that was one of his "yes" men.

Great guy, great coach, questionable GM...just seemed like time to move on.

Best of luck to him in Washington.

Bronco Yoda
09-07-2010, 06:11 PM
Those all blue jerseys need to be a staple to this team.

The smurfberry uni's need to be burned.

Bring back the Orange! I'll take the alternate Orange jersey for home and take orange pants for away games.

Bronco Yoda
09-07-2010, 06:17 PM
Shanahan should have let Plummer have another go of it. He knew the offense and the team was behind him. Looking back now Cutler was a mistake. Shanahan fell for the rocket arm. We all did. I wish Mike all the best.

gunns
09-08-2010, 07:12 AM
He was so busy looking for the next "Elway" to run his complicated offense, he neglected the defense and especially the special teams to the point that both were the worst in the league. And IIRC, the 2008 defense was the 2nd worst defense in the history of the league (saved by the 0-16 Lions defense being worse).

What is amazing that we had a good TEAM in 2005 that he built. We were good on defense - we could have used a dominant d-lineman (of course, been looking for those for 12 years now) and we were good on offense. Neither were spectacular, but they had been improving over the course of a few years.


Shanahan reminded me of what happened to Al Davis. He seemed stuck in the 80's and 90's when offenses were dominant and just hope your D doesn't screw it up. Granted being an O coord he would put more preference on the O but being head coach you have two sides to the ball and all he did was throw garbage at the D for the most part.

2005 was a fluke as far as the offense. The D stepped up, Mikes one shining star, Champ played lights out. Plummer proved that stats never tell the whole story, we won the NE game because of the D and in spite of Plummer. Plummer's true colors came out in the AFCC. I had no problem with the change in 2006, we were going no where with Plummer. Mike was in a panic as far as the O went. The Browncos was another fiasco, along the lines of Slowik.

Lolad
09-08-2010, 08:41 AM
We wouldn't have had the '09 defense if Mike had stayed. He was planning to keep Slowik and continue with the 4-3. Starting with the second half of '06, the defense had gotten progressively more putrid with no legitimate hope of improvement. Mike's personnel decisions with regards to the D had gotten progressively worse (Boss Bailey, the hideous safetys he brought in, the revolving door of retread DL, failed defensive draft picks). Why anyone had any confidence that he was going to suddenly get the defense fixed is a mystery to me. It was getting worse and worse.

As far as the offense goes, given that Cutler has only gotten worse in the TO department, there is no reason to think that would have improved either. A putrid defense and a turnover prone offense is not "going in the right direction."

We had injuries that year which effected the play on D. Even though we were bad I doubt we would've been as terrible as we were.

The only reason Cutler has more TO's is because he was in a new system last year. As you can see with Orton being in the same system for 2 years in a row now he is coming into his own. The same can be said for a lot of QB's

Lolad
09-08-2010, 08:43 AM
If Nick Ferguson could catch a ball that's going to hit him in the face, it'd be coming up on 5 years since he won a Super Bowl. Just sayin.

this and Champ catching that INT and turning it into a pick 6 early in the game

gunns
09-08-2010, 11:03 AM
I suggest you not log onto the Mane if you're excited for the season unless you're willing to deal with the bull****. Add some people onto ignore would help too.

Case in point...and then....

I'll answer for him:

No. We won't have a chance to win any football games until Tebow starts.

And please do me the favor of only attacking me, not this post. YES, I do realize you were being sarcastic. You have become tsiguyII. I don't know of very many Bronco fans that aren't excited for the season, I'm sorry that you can't put up with those that express their own opinions.....and I'm not just talking about this thread. YES, I am grouchy today and unfortunately for you, you fell in my path. I don't mind your threads, I love your optimism, but damn dude since when were you put in charge of others?

bloodsunday
09-08-2010, 12:17 PM
Whether he's angry he was fired by the Broncos:
"I wasn't mad. I was disappointed, because I thought we had the thing going the right direction. I thought the building blocks were there. Defensively, we needed some things, but we had pieces in place and I believed we could bring the defense up to where the offense was."
"Defensively we needed some things"? Wow! Yeah like about 7 players and a consistent scheme. Other than that he was pretty close. Considering the majority of the players in the NFL are NOT impact players, you need a scheme that provides a framework to build around. You draft guys that fit that scheme based on either experience or physical characteristics/talent. Many of those guys may not be in the league if not on your team, but that's ok. By making the DC position a revolving door we could never allow that process to take place. Remember Jarvis Moss was drafted to be a Jason Taylor type player in the Jim Bates defense, only he quasi-fired Bates half-way through the season.


What he meant when he said he had left a "Super Bowl offense" with the Broncos:
"That's what I think. You average 395 yards a game and lose six running backs (in 2008) and still average well over 4 yards per rush, that's a group capable of things. It was by no means perfect — too many turnovers, some red-zone issues — but you don't move the ball like that if you're not very capable. We were No. 2. To be in the Super Bowl, you have to have that kind of offense, be No. 1, No. 2, be No. 1 in defense. That's how you win Super Bowls. At least there was one side at that level. The job when you have one side like that is to get the other side (of the ball) to that level and maintain what you already have."
Shanahan has a warped view of what makes an offense IMO. His offenses almost never had a problem racking up yards, particularly rushing yards. The problem is the ineffectiveness in situational football, particularly redzone offense. That's why his "Super Bowl offense" was near the top of the league in yards, but middle of the pack in scoring. Oh, and it helps when your defense is near the bottom of the league so you play in a lot of shoot outs and in a lot of prevent situations!

I have always pointed out that Shanahan never won without Elway, but he also hasn't won without TD and that OL that led us to back-to-back SB. Offenses in the NFL just aren't as productive (at scoring PTS) when the cannot run the ball on 3rd and short or in the redzone.

jhns
09-08-2010, 12:34 PM
Shanahan has a warped view of what makes an offense IMO. His offenses almost never had a problem racking up yards, particularly rushing yards. The problem is the ineffectiveness in situational football, particularly redzone offense. That's why his "Super Bowl offense" was near the top of the league in yards, but middle of the pack in scoring. Oh, and it helps when your defense is near the bottom of the league so you play in a lot of shoot outs and in a lot of prevent situations!

I have always pointed out that Shanahan never won without Elway, but he also hasn't won without TD and that OL that led us to back-to-back SB. Offenses in the NFL just aren't as productive (at scoring PTS) when the cannot run the ball on 3rd and short or in the redzone.

I agree with your defensive takes but the rest of this is innacurate. First off, the offense did not have that much problem scoring. The scoring ranking on nfl.com and espn.com is one that includes defensive and special teams scores. We were top third of the league in scoring if you take those out for every team. That is with an offense made up of rookie to third year players. That offense also suffered injuries. They did need to work on their red zone, and really needed to work on turnovers, but I don't know how you can claim they weren't a top offense with the makings of a great offense. Experience alone would have made them a ton better.

I would love to see the shootout and prevent theory expanded.

Shanahan also did win without those players. We were in the AFCCG a few years ago. He made the playoffs multiple times without them. This team was near the top of the league in wins during Shanahans last 10 years here. None of this agrees with the notion that he couldn't win without Elway. He did a LOT better than most other organizations that just lost their HOF QB.

Meck77
09-08-2010, 12:43 PM
I mentioned this before but nobody really paid attention. During Shanny's final year with us he was under the threat of Eminent Domain. At stake was a $40 Million dollar deal that he was part owner of. Simply put he was battling for millions his final season. Not only that he ventured off into his stake houses and was building a huge mansion all at once. Add in the team was struggling and he was a mess.

Getting fired was a huge blow to him. In fact I heard a friend of his bailed him out and bought his mansion and maybe the interest in his steakhouse. Either way I'm glad Shanny is financially on track again and happy with the Skins. Denver need a change at coach and shanny needed to get grounded financially. For crying out loud who needs a 17,000 sq ft house or whatever the hell he was building.

Cito Pelon
09-08-2010, 12:53 PM
". . . .if the defense and special teams are as equally important to you, and if you're the head coach, they'd better be as important to you."


A Freudian moment there?

bloodsunday
09-08-2010, 01:15 PM
We were top third of the league in scoring if you take those out for every team. That is with an offense made up of rookie to third year players.
You can change the stats anyway you want, but top-third still suggests that they didn't score as many points as their "yards" would indicate. Also, if you take away the first three games in which they averaged 38 pts a game, they averaged 19 pts a game the rest of the season which would have been good for something like 24th overall in pts scored. That includes 6 games out of the remaining 13 in which they scored 16 pts or less.


That offense also suffered injuries. They did need to work on their red zone, and really needed to work on turnovers, but I don't know how you can claim they weren't a top offense with the makings of a great offense. Experience alone would have made them a ton better.
I agree that the offense was good and likely would have gotten better. That said, I don't think that offense was elite or "Super Bowl" caliber because the redzone ineffectiveness (a long time Shanahan problem) and turnover issues.

I would love to see the shootout and prevent theory expanded.
The shoot out theory/prevent theory is simple. In 2008 Jay Cutler threw for 1500 yards in games that Denver lost by 15 pts or more. His stats where inflated by always playing from behind (thanks in large part to a poor defense). Teams don't play the same schemes when they are winning the game that they do when they are losing the game. That inflates offensive yardage totals. It's more or less the same concept for shoot outs. Whether it be weather, injury/player availability, or scheme, each game takes on it's own personality. For example in the game early in 2008 against San Diego both teams moved up and down the field at will and Denver managed to score 39 pts an win with nearly 500 total yards of offense. In the second game Denver only managed 6 pts in the first half at which point they were down 24 - 6. They only had 140 yards that half as compared to 322 in the game earlier in the season. The shoot out benefited their yardage totals -- although this game qualified as a blow out and the prevent theory would come into play in the second half narrowing the total yardage gap.

Shanahan also did win without those players. We were in the AFCCG a few years ago. He made the playoffs multiple times without them. This team was near the top of the league in wins during Shanahans last 10 years here. None of this agrees with the notion that he couldn't win without Elway. He did a LOT better than most other organizations that just lost their HOF QB.
That's skewing the facts IMO. Shanahan himself acknowledged that it was Super Bowl or bust. Well, he won only 1 playoff game and 1 division title in the 10 years after Elway and TD. Yes he got to the playoffs a few times, but only came close once to the success he experienced prior to those players. He won 39 regular season (13 per year avg) games in a 3 year span with those Elway-led teams. He averaged 9 wins per season after that, nearly 4 less wins per year.

Bronco Yoda
09-08-2010, 01:56 PM
Special teams was usually just so aweful those years. It seemed we were always among the bottom at starting field position for both sides.

jhns
09-08-2010, 02:00 PM
Special teams was usually just so aweful those years. It seemed we were always among the bottom at starting field position for both sides.

In his last year the offense had the 32nd ranked starting field position and the defense had the 16th. His special teams and defenses were pretty sad by the end. What is worse about the defense is it gave up all of those points and yards while seeing the second fewest drives in the league. That is an accomplishment.

bloodsunday
09-08-2010, 02:07 PM
In his last year the offense had the 32nd ranked starting field position
Which would also skew the offensive yardage totals.

jhns
09-08-2010, 02:12 PM
Which would also skew the offensive yardage totals.

And make it harder for them to score than any other team in the league. The spins can go both ways.

errand
09-08-2010, 08:14 PM
Mike's a great guy. I feel strongly that we were going in the right direction. The defense needed a ton of work but the offense had some stalwarts in positions where you need them. He could come have wrapped around in 09's draft, picked up a big-time defensive player instead of using one on 900 yd rusher in Knowshon, and then drafted Shonn Greene in the 2nd round and we would have been in the playoffs last year.




Or he could've found a way to win just one of his final 4 games and we'd have made the playoffs in '08

Naggle Nole
09-08-2010, 08:37 PM
Or he could've found a way to win just one of his final 4 games and we'd have made the playoffs in '08

That Buffalo game was almost responsible for my purchase of a new TV